Thursday, January 31, 2013

Child Standoff Update

A man seeking "two boys" shot and killed a bus driver and is holding a 5 year old boy hostage.  A neighbor reported not being surprised as he had beaten to death her dog who wandered over "to his side of the dirt road."

1.  that he killed the bus driver shows his deadly intent
2.  that he killed an animal alarms authorities to the potential for sexual abuse of the child.  Animal abuse, particularly of pet animals and sexual abuse are often linked.  It is the destruction of good, or of innocence, that is sought, even by those who claim GSA.

Our prayers are with this boy and his family as the nation watches.

32 comments:

Jennifer Wallace Barnes said...

OMG Peter, worst nightmare materialized. I have a 10 year old boy who rides a bus to school every day. You can't help but put yourself in the parents shoes. I talked to my son this morning about escape routes, hiding, etc. I want him to know this kind of madness goes on in our world and he should try to be mentally prepared for scary situations. I take every precaution necessary for his safety; unfortunately you can't predict everything. Sounds like this community knew he was a total nut. I just wish he was locked away sooner. I'll be praying for this child.

Sus said...

This is one of the most shocking scenarios. It is difficult to wrap my mind around the fact that someone could plan out such a thing. I commend the bus driver who gave his life protecting his riders...so sad.

Hobnob said...

off topic and very telling BBM


In his first remarks since reports surfaced that a grand jury voted to indict him and his wife for child abuse resulting in the death of his daughter JonBenet, John Ramsey reportedly characterized the news as “just more drama” in the 17-year-old case.

“It’s just more drama,” said Ramsey, 69, in the Feb. 11 edition of People magazine, which appears on newsstands Friday, according to The Boulder Daily Camera.

On Sunday, the newspaper reported exclusively that the grand jury investigating the 1996 Christmas night death of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey voted to indict both of the girl’s parents after the eight women and four men heard evidence from September 1998 to October 1999.

The grand jury voted to indict both John and Patsy Ramsey on charges of child abuse resulting in death, a Class II felony punishable by up to 48 years in prison. But Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign the indictment, believing he could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, the newspaper reported.

“I and my prosecution task force believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant a filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time,” Hunter told reporters on Oct. 13, 1999.

Repeated requests by the newspaper for comment from John Ramsey following Sunday’s report were not successful. Ramsey told People magazine he and Patsy Ramsey feared the worst as the conclusion of the grand jury’s duties neared in 1999.

“Our attorneys had us totally prepared to go to jail,” he told the magazine. “We had bail money set up.”


Patsy Ramsey died June 24, 2006, after a long battle with cancer. She is buried alongside JonBenet in Marietta, Ga. John Ramsey remarried in July 2011. He and wife Jan Rousseaux split their time between Charlevoix, Mich., and Las Vegas, People reports.

"A grand jury true bill vote for murder charges isn't drama," Jeffrey Scott Shapiro, a journalist who has investigated the Ramsey murder for 16-years, told FoxNews.com. "It's the gold standard for prosecution in the criminal justice process. I’ve always respected John Ramsey, but he is starting to sound like someone who is completely disconnected from reality.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/31/john-ramsey-reportedly-says-grand-jury-vote-to-indict-is-just-more-drama/?test=latestnews#ixzz2JZote8HX

Still no strong first person singular past tense event specific denial. His daughter is raped and murdered, the killer is never caught, the parents get indicted by a grand jury and he calls it just drama.
Just minimises it downwards.
Why isn't he using this to make a strong denial and ask for the case tio be reopened, DNA retested since forensics has advanced so far a single cell can prove guilt.
Take an FBI polugraph or subit to an interview by a trained and experienced statement analyst.
He admits there was probably enough evidence to warrant his arrest why else would he be warned by his attorney?
Instead we have distancing and forget about the past move along nothing to see here

Hobnob said...

off topic


A body has been recovered from a New Jersey canal and authorities reportedly believe it is that of a missing bartender last seen on Saturday.

Philly.com reports that Sarah Majoras, 39, was last seen at 2 a.m. Saturday crossing the Delaware River on a bridge that links the communities of New Hope, Pa., where Majoras works as a bartender, and Lambertville, N.J., where she lives.

Hunterdon County, N.J., Prosecutor Anthony Kearns said late Wednesday that a body had been recovered from the Delaware & Raritan Canal. He said investigators are still trying "to find out what did occur" Saturday morning sometime after 2 a.m. when Majoras left a bar.

“We do know there’s a significant time frame [on her walk home] between Lambertville and New Hope sometime between 1:45 and 3 a.m.” Kearns said at an earlier press conference.

Divers for a fourth day had scoured the Delaware canal between the Free Bridge connecting the towns of New Hope and Lambertville and Coryell Street, a block to the north, for a fourth day.

Authorities still have no reason to suspect foul play, but “are leaving all possibilities open,” Kearns said.

Anyone with information that could be linked to Majoras’ disappearance is asked to call (908) 284-6162 or (908) 788-1129 with any information.

“We have the New Jersey State Police, the FBI, the detectives from my office and the good police from Lambertville and New Hope all assisting in this search,” Kearns said earlier Wednesday. “We recognize that this is a time where the community is suffering as well and we feel for them.”



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/31/body-found-in-canal-reportedly-believed-to-be-missing-new-jersey-bartender/?test=latestnews#ixzz2JZqwmxrX

Anonymous said...

We need to punish people who deliberately harm animals and flag them.

Lis said...

This is terrible. From what I have read, this man has had numerous run-ins with his neighbors, is known to be crazy and dangerous, and has threatened children in his neighborhood before. I wonder why nothing was done about him before this.

Randie said...

Update:

they have lowered medication down the bunker for the boy

it is reported the boy is watching tv

Anonymous said...

Regarding the Ramsey case, I don't think the Ramsey's killed their daughter.
1). Ransom note I believe was written before the murder. Yes, it was written on paper in their house--it doesnt't mean they wrote it. Someone could have easily snuck in there while they were at Christmas party. Also there are holes in many theories that blame Patsy. 1). Commonly misspelled words said to be "intentionally misspelled". So what if the writer spelled "attache" right--that does not mean that he or she would not have difficulty spelling a longer word like "business" or "possession" (both commonly misspelled by many adults). 2). "And hence" is
actually a commonly used phrase in more formal or
academic writing in the English language--it is not a
rare phrase.
It makes more sense an intruder did the crime. Why
and how in the world would 2 people choose to "cover-up" a crime in such a way? What was their thinking? Did they think to stage it as 2 different things at once--a kidnapping and also a sexual
homicide?
I think the Ramseys are innocent. The key is in the ransom note which I believe
was written before the murder.

Anonymous said...

The ramseys stated before her death"we will miss her when she's "taken""!!! THey hinted 3 weeks before her death about her "taken".Guilty as sin mr anon^^^

dadgum said...

..'and hence' is rarely found except in multi page ransom notes..

Anonymous said...

I actually disagree that "and hence" is grammatically incorrect--redundant maybe--but to me it is like saying "and therefore". Regardless, I doubt many people who use the word "hence" use the word "hence" grammatically correctly.

dadgum said...

ahahaha!!!! made you angry?

Bait a troll, and hence, anger ensues.

You must be a friend of the Ramsays...maybe someone should check you out, since you use 'and hence' so often. Methinks you take this a mite too peronnally.

Jen said...

Every time the Ramsey's have spoken, they confirm their guilt. An innocent person cannot fathom being wrongly accused of a crime...especially the sexual assault and murder of your own daughter! The fact that John Ramsey acknowledges they were prepared to be arrested and even had bail money ready for when it happened, shows consciousness of guilt and that their mindset was always focused on 'weathering the storm' and not on bring justice to their murdered daughter. Being indicted for a crime is not 'just drama'..and for anyone BUT the Ramsey's it would mean the beginning of prosecution.

Why no outrage, why no bitter anger at the fact that not only was he 'wrongly' indicted, but to this date his daughters murderer walks free? The answer is very clear...HE IS THE MURDERER, so he doesn't dare suggest that the cold case needs another look, or that it's a disgusting miscarriage of justice for nobody to be held responsible for his daughters vicious murder. He just wants the 'drama' to go away, because every time it gets stirred up...more people realize the ugly truth. Keep talking John...

Anonymous said...

Dadgum--I am the anon that said I believe the intruder theory. It was a different anon that called you a name. My reply is underneath that anon and is regarding "and hence" and grammatical correctness. I didnt know differing points of view on here can't be said without being called a troll though. Whatever. I use my brain. I have my own thoughts about the ransom note. If that's not welcome here then OK--sorry I spoke!

Anonymous said...

Jen--just because he said he was prepared to be arrested does not necessarily show consciousness of guilt since everyone was and is pointing fingers at him, it only shows that he was aware of this very obvious fact.
I don't claim to be a smart person but I do believe 2 things
1) Ransom note was written before the murder.
2) If you just use logic you can see it makes no sense for the Ramsey's to try to coverup a murder using 2 different conflicting "staged" scenarios. What would their logic have been when coming up with this cover-up? In other words, what were they thinking?

dadgum said...

It's hard to tell one 'anon' from another..unless the post is longer. Differing points of view are what makes life worth living (not name calling though).

Hence, my apologies.

I thought someone else was there as well..until I read up on it. John finding her body was too odd, the note too long and oddly detailed, and where did this person enter and exit?
=========================

It is so sad the driver was killed protecting the kids. We can only pray the boy is released and returned to his parents. I am concerned that if he has difficult behaviors, this man will lose what little sense he has. If the boy is not verbal, it will be hard for him to express his feelings.

This reminds me of the Coalinga? school bus kidnapping years ago. Was the man here looking for 2 boys he knew and considered troublemakers?

Amaleen6 said...

So, this guy holding the little boy hostage, does he have any connection at all to him?

dadgum said...

was he looking for the neighbor's kids? they were supposed to be in court the day he did this over killing their dog and threats.

Hobnob said...

Anonymous said...
Regarding the Ramsey case, I don't think the Ramsey's killed their daughter.
1). Ransom note I believe was written before the murder. Yes, it was written on paper in their house--it doesnt't mean they wrote it. Someone could have easily snuck in there while they were at Christmas party. Also there are holes in many theories that blame Patsy. 1). Commonly misspelled words said to be "intentionally misspelled". So what if the writer spelled "attache" right--that does not mean that he or she would not have difficulty spelling a longer word like "business" or "possession" (both commonly misspelled by many adults). 2). "And hence" is
actually a commonly used phrase in more formal or
academic writing in the English language--it is not a
rare phrase.
It makes more sense an intruder did the crime. Why
and how in the world would 2 people choose to "cover-up" a crime in such a way? What was their thinking? Did they think to stage it as 2 different things at once--a kidnapping and also a sexual
homicide?
I think the Ramseys are innocent. The key is in the ransom note which I believe
was written before the murder.

Why write a ransom note before murdering the victim?

Why write a multipage essay rather than the usual w have your loved one, we want $xxmill by whenever, we will contact you for the drop off.
Ransom notes have demands on, shor and sweet designed to scare and control the reader, they do not write essays explaining who they are and why.

Why spend a long time writing a note when the family could have returned at any moment and logically why write an essay when there is no guarantee they could get access to the child in the first place?

Handwriting could not clear patsy, everyone has a writing style that is easily recognised once learned, it can be words they use, saluations, goodbyes, unusual words or phrases, misspellings. In my job i can recognise who the member is simply by their writing style, emoticons and vbonics they use.

Foreign faction implies a non american/english speaking group. Since eglish is not their firs language they are highly unlikely to use uncommon english words and phrases such as "and hence"
Foreign factions do not refer to themselves as foreign, everyone else to them is foreign.
When i invaded the states and canada i was not the foreigner you all were :)

Why would they write a practice note which again takes precious time and thus increases the risk of discovery?

Why was there no foresnsic evidence of strangers in the house?

Given today's advances in forensics, DNA can be traced on paper a single skin cell or drop of sweat can identify the person, if they tested the paper would they find DNA from someone other than patsy and john on the letter? NO.

Why was the ransom the exact amount of his bonus when the expected would be millions which could then be bargained down.

Foreign factions would not be familiar with southern phrases

Regarding spelling it is often the more common words would be spelled incorrectly, why would a foreign faction include words that are not commonly spoken, in every day usage?

Criminals cover up their crime because of fear of the consequences.
They had every reaon to claim it was an abduction gone wrong as they had so much to lose.
Status was there all, he would lose his job, he would never be able to stand for office, paedophiles are treated as the lowest of the low in prison, she would lose her reputation not only for child abuse and neglect , she would also do serious jail time for allowing Jonbenet to b repeatedly sexually abused.

Hobnob said...

It is likely that Jonbenet was a victim of accidental homicide as opposed to murder which was preplanned.
She died whilst being raped, was the garrotte part of the rape and it went too far?
They panicked, panicking people do not think clearly.
abduction may have seemed at the time to be the logical way to go as we have seen all to often especially in recent cases.
Was the plan to keep her hidden and then moved at a later date hence the note?
Did they forget that in such cases LE will probably stay with them waiting for the non existent call ( so they could trace it etc)
Did they forget LE would do a full search of the property and would find Jonbenet?
Did john 'find her' and pick her up so any DNA on her body from him could be expalined away as from him picking her up?

Why did patsy fail polygraphs? why did thy polygraph shop and make sure the person couldn't make anything public such as questions asked?

Why the need to immediately hire lawyers and spin doctors and refuse to co-operate?

What would you do if your child was found dead in your house or was missing and you were completely innocent?
What would you do if you thought your child was the victim of someone in your house such as husband, son or other family member?
Would you be demanding everyone co-operate and if you believed a loved one was the killer would you defend them or demand they faced justice?

Innocent people act a certain way, guilty people also act a certain way.
Both ways follow an expected pattern, both are completely different and opposite.

You can look at any case involving a missing or dead child where the parents are clearly involved and then look at the ramseys and the mccanns and see the same red flags.
You can look at the same cases where a parent is not involved such as Ayla reynolds and her mom Trista and see how innocent parents behave.

Anonymous said...

Hobnob--I don't believe a "foreign faction" wrote the ransom note, but I don't believe Patsy did either.
I believe from the tone of the note that whoever wrote it actually did want money at the time the note was written.
The length of the note and the amount of details are indeed odd. When I read the note, this is what I feel about the writer: He or she was relatively calm when writing the note (not in a state of panic); he or she did, in fact, desire money when writing the note; he or she was obssessed/fixated on police/crime shows;
the "digs" taken at John ("you're not the only fat cat around") suggest the writer knew John but, in my opinion are not insults that would come from a wife; also phrases of "concern" like "make sure you're well rested" are not "genuine" concern and do not indicate Patsy wrote the note. In a way, people try to read too much into certain things--like "make sure you're well-rested"--"oh this proves the writer is female and it is his wife". No. Why, if she were writing this to conspire to cover-up Jon Benet's death would she be showing any concern for him in the note? Why would she bother putting in digs towards him? I don't believe she authored the note.

Mainah said...


Here's an example from today's headlines of what a father of a murdered innocent daughter does/says:

Hadiya's father, Nathaniel Pendleton, spoke today at a Chicago police news conference, which was held in the same park where his daughter died. "He took the light of my life," Pendleton said. He then spoke directly to the killer: "Look at yourself, just know that you took a bright person, an innocent person, a nonviolent person." Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy consoled him...

Her family (Mom, Dad, brother, her godfather, etc.) is asking anyone with any information that would lead to the girls killer, to please come forward, call police. Huh(?), what a great idea(!).

JR's not too worried about a sadistic baby raping murderer coming into his home and killing one of his children. I wonder if Burke, now a grow man, ever looks for his sisters killer?

To the doubting Anon(s): Have you read the police questioning of Patsy? That removed any remaining doubt for me.

I think Burke was sexually assaulting JonBenet. One of the three struck her (I think it was control-queen Patsy). All participated in the cover up. I think they hid her in the house and realized later they could not leave with her due to LE surveillance.

Hobnob said...

Anonymous said...
Hobnob--I don't believe a "foreign faction" wrote the ransom note, but I don't believe Patsy did either.
I believe from the tone of the note that whoever wrote it actually did want money at the time the note was written.
The length of the note and the amount of details are indeed odd. When I read the note, this is what I feel about the writer: He or she was relatively calm when writing the note (not in a state of panic); he or she did, in fact, desire money when writing the note; he or she was obssessed/fixated on police/crime shows;
the "digs" taken at John ("you're not the only fat cat around") suggest the writer knew John but, in my opinion are not insults that would come from a wife; also phrases of "concern" like "make sure you're well rested" are not "genuine" concern and do not indicate Patsy wrote the note. In a way, people try to read too much into certain things--like "make sure you're well-rested"--"oh this proves the writer is female and it is his wife". No. Why, if she were writing this to conspire to cover-up Jon Benet's death would she be showing any concern for him in the note? Why would she bother putting in digs towards him? I don't believe she authored the note.

If the insults do not come a wife who then did they come from?
Statement analysts look only at the words used, we do not interpret what we think they meant which is what you are doing.
How did the writer know how much money he earned as a bonus given people do not generally go bradcasting their financials.
Why would criminal show concern for the parents? All they want is payment of the money, they don't care if the person is well rested or not.
Certain phrases tend be associated with a specific gender, women tend to be more emotive, and caring whereas men tend to be more the physical and abrupt.
It is common for couples in marital difficulty to throw digs and insults at each other, to demean them.
Given the usual length of ransom notes, short and to the point and this was an essay, who do you thik wrote the note especially as you think it was someone known to the family?
What insults do you think would come from a wife?

Jen said...

Hi Anon 6:23-

I can respect that you are of the opinion that the Ramsey's weren't involved in Jonbebets murder, but in the interest of discussion and in response to your second comment please ponder this scenario...Jonbenet is killed in an accident or moment of anger, either by one of her parents or her brother and the parents realizing what is a stake (if either of them are the killer they stand to lose everything...job, reputation, lifestyle, etc. & if Burke has killed her they stand to lose both of their children to this event) set out to stage a kidnapping. This way the child is 'missing' and when her body is found the 'kidnappers' will be blamed for her death. This would account for the writing of the detailed ransom note and all they needed to do to make the kidnapping 'real' and plausible was remove her body from the home and dump it somewhere....but they can't bring themselves to do it. The Ramsey's cannot bear the thought of leaving her body out in the cold, exposed to the elements and animals...so how can they make this work? They wrap her body in a sheet and take her down to the basement, stage a heinous looking 'crime scene' and call the cops in to make the terrible discovery.

It only makes sense to me that the parents were involved because an intruder/predator would not commit the assault within the home and would have no problem discarding her remains once he committed his crimes. The only scenario which fits the facts of the case, including the extremely long 'ransom' note (which contains no instructions for delivery of the money which you state you believe to be the motive), the subject of the ransom laying dead within the same location as the note (if she was found by the parents as they searched their house for her then obviously no ransom would be paid) and the staged crime scene/discovery of her body on the third search of the house (John and Patsy wanted the police to discover her body so they could say...we called 911 when we found the note and were on the line until the first officer arrived, and since then we've been in your presence so I couldn't be us).

And as far as consciousness of guilt..I stand by my opinion. If you are innocent then you know that through the investigation you will be proven innocent, and you work WITH the police to clear your self so they can move on and find the killer. If you are guilty then you wait for them to come arrest you and you hire attorneys and hide behind them, doctors and your pastor...and busy yourself by suing anybody who dares question your character or innocence for the next 15+ years, while your baby girl goes without justice.

Ney said...

OT Ramsey case

Quotes are below from the mother about her READING the note. Can anyone believe it to be true, daughter missing and the only clue the ransom note left to help to get the daughter back is only GLANCED at, MIGHT HAVE GLANCED, DIDN'T REALLY READ, COULDN'T BEAR to read?

"I just, you know, I just, I DIDN't REALLY READ IT, I just COULDN'T BEAR TO read it.. ....I mean I, you know, I MIGHT HAVE GLANCED and seen the $118,000…… but I don’t, I DIDN'T READ THE WHOLE THING."

"I GUESS the note said SOMETHING about like we’ll call at, I FORGET WHAT TIME"
Innocent parents probably would have known the note by heart by the time of the interview, learnt in during the effort of trying to find out who the killer was.

"Cause WE sometimes LAY PAPERS and stuff there to go up and..."

Another strange statement from a family friend about the NOTE.

"I drove my car into the -- up the alley and parked in the back of their house, and went around to the patio door, which was a glass door leading into the kitchen and back of the house, and didn't see anybody, but saw a piece of paper laying on the floor. Looked at that. It was facing the other direction. Read it. And after the first few lines realized something very strange was happening. And so I ran around to the front of the house and knocked on the door and was let in."
Did that friend really read the ransom note from OUTSIDE of the house, through a glass door? Isn't that odd?

Ney said...

I pray for the little boy and his parents. I hope he will be let go, or police saves him.

Anonymous said...

Oh Dear God. I don't pray often but I'm praying now. What did the man think was going to happen? I hope this is a suicide by cop. Then it might be over soon. Please Just Let the Boy Go.

Trigger said...

John Ramsey's response about the public disclosure about the Grand Jury's decision to prosecute them both, with the statement, about "more drama" that implies to other people to just forget about Jon Benet and move on, is cold.

This is John Ramsey's opportunity to show his pain for the loss of his daughter, Jon Benet and his anger that her killer is still at large and unidentified.

Why isn't he crying out for justice for Jon Benet?

Anonymous said...

Hobnob and others, been so busy, will write more when I get a chance.
The phrase " make sure you are well-rested" I believe comes from the writer's interest in crime/police/mobster movies. I have heard similar statements in movies said by the bad guy in a (for lack of a better word) sarcastic manner to the person he is tormenting.
The digs in the note, in my opinion, come from someone more distant than a wife. "You're not the only fat cat around" "Use that good Southern common sense of yours"--again, these phrases resemble "villain talk" from crime movies much more than this is a wife getting in a dig. Also, it jumps out at me that when the writer says "it's up to you now John" that this writer is somewhat distant in relationship from him. Almost like the writer is feigning closeness or familiarity with him. For example, if I think of any 2 people who know each other well arguing I just simply cannot picture one of the individuals saying "it's up to you now (whatever the person's name is).". This strikes me as something "sinister" said by someone who knows him, yes, but who is not close to him.
The long length of the note, the embellishments, the large amount of details point to the note being written in a state of relative calm before the murder. It really reads like someone sat down with a cup of coffee and just took their time writing it with lots of detail and imaginative meanderings.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jen--I don't believe that these parents would have conspired in such a way to create such a criminally sophisticated as well as sick cover-up. I just don't believe that if Jon Benet's death was accidental that the parents would have come up with such a sick cover-up to hide an accident. It seems much more likely to me that it was something brutal done by an intruder.

Jen said...

Hi Anon 5:41

The cover up is not criminally sophisticated...far from it, after all they didn't even remove the 'bounty' from the house where they left the note, so obviously this was not a well thought out or planned crime...who ever it was committed by. Assuming you authored both of the above posts, I somewhat agree that the note was not hastily written, but that lends itself more to the theory of the Ramsey's being responsible...an intruder/predator wouldn't spend ANY amount of time inside a home where they just raped and murdered a child, writing a three page 'ransom' note with a notepad and pen from within the home, when all of their objectives have already been accomplished.

I feel the content of the 'ransom' note is the 'smoking gun' in this case. It doesn't contain what a ransom note should...instruction on when, where and how to deliver the money, which would be the objective of a REAL ransom note. Instead the note is full of nonsense and ridiculous movie-esque lines meant to point fingers at potential suspects (which means the crime has already been committed) and confuse the straightforward case of a little girl laying dead in her own home. The 'insults' in the note are actually complimentary and personal to the Ramsey's...a 'fat cat' is a wealthy big shot (as well as the name of a social group which John Ramsey was said to be part of) and telling someone to 'use that good southern common sense of yours' is also somewhat complimentary, while also implying the author is close enough to the family to know where John is from.

As others have mentioned there's a lot of analysis on this site of the note, the 911 call, police interviews and crime wire broadcasts if you are interested in checking it out. I have learned a lot from this site and even some of my long held opinions on certain cases have changed after seeing the reliability of SA in detecting deception.

Eliza said...

About Jonbenet's case:

I have read several times that Patsy couldn't have written the note, because she would have been in a state of panic. But, if Jonbenet was killed around midnight, Patsy would have had about 5 hours to calm down and stage it everything. Even to write practice notes. It's clear to me she didn't go to bed that night at all (because of the same clothes)