Thursday, March 21, 2013

Billie Dunn Case: Statement Analysis

by Peter Hyatt and Kaaryn Gough
Does unity between Billie Dunn and Shawn Adkins exist today?  
Are they still co conspirators or have they turned on one another?

We read that attorney John Young said that Billie Dunn will not be giving any interviews, yet that is exactly what she did.  Does this indicate anything about the remains found?
Does she have the need to talk because it is Hailey?
Does she have the confidence to talk because it is not Hailey?  We look for any indication within her words.  
Pronouns do not lie; they are instinctive.  We use pronouns from the earliest days of speech and after using them millions of times, we are completely proficient in their use:  we do not make mistakes. 
"I still have really bad days. It's been two years and it never gets easy. Some days it's easier to pretend it's not going on,” said Dunn.

We've seen pictures of the days when Billie found it easier to pretend its "not going on" 
We do not hear of empathy for what Hailey may be going through in the last two years. 
We note the nouns and pronouns used:
December 27th 2010.... It was the last time Billie Dunn ever saw her then 13 year old daughter Hailey.

Please note that it is 9PM on December 26th, 2010, not the 27th. 
"Telling her it was time to sit down and eat Christmas dinner, she likes to eat like any country girl does...and then I saw her the next morning in her bed,” said Dunn.
Note the missing pronoun.
The tension over Christmas has been noted in previous statements.  Here, we find that she uses the body posture of sitting down in her recall.  When body posture is used, it is often an indication of an increase in tension.
She is "her" and "she" and "country girl", but not Hailey.   We note when she uses the name "Hailey" and when she doesn't.  We also note the frequency.  We note any terms of endearment, or nicknames for Hailey.  
"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering, what if it is her? It's been really tough. It's been a few days now I don't know when it’s going to end and when I’m going to get some answers. I was kind of expecting an answer from dental records yesterday, but if they're not able to use the dental records because Hailey only had one picture one view, we'll be waiting for two to three weeks,” said Dunn.
Note that she says "when" 
Note "what if its her?"  This is in the form of a question and it shows the unknown "if" it is her.  What is unknown?
The expected is that if it is her, the searching comes to an end, and the question of whether she is alive or dead comes to an end.  There is a certain element of finality in finding the body and it leaves "who done it?" only.
Here, however, she asks, "What if it is her?"
What is this question?  Does she wonder to herself:
Will I be charged?
Will Shawn be charged?
Will I be arrested?
Will Shawn be arrested?
Will Shawn make a deal?
Should I make a deal?  Should I attempt to blame Shawn since he will turn on me?
Will I be convicted?  Casey Anthony got away with it, could I?

What if it is Hailey is an open-ended question that only the subject can answer. 
Note that she wants "some answers" and not "the answer"; "the answer" would be that it is Hailey: she is dead, yet it is that she wants "some" answers (plural) and not "all" answers.  This indicates that there are some questions she does not need answers to. 
here we find the use of the name "Hailey" while speaking of the dentist.  

Regarding "can't quit:


"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering, what if it is her.  

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering…”—not“it’s all I can think about”. Sentence in the negative=very important to subject and sensitive.

"can't quit thinking about it and wondering…”“can’t” indicates the subject has tried but failed.

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering…”“ “quit” speaks to addiction.

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering…”“it” not “Hailey”. What is “it”?  Why would the subject call her "it" and not "Hailey"?  

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering, what if it is her.”“wondering” suggests there are multiple possibilities present that are “unknown”. One can only “wonder” if there’s no definite direction or conclusion. What would the subject be wondering?

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering, what if it is her.”not, “…and wondering if it is her” The inclusion ofwhat if” changes the focus to ‘what will happen next?’—in other words, what will happen if the remains are Hailey’s.

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering, what if it is her.”—not, “Hailey”  


Life since:  
"It's been utter chaos. It's just been a mess knowing my daughter's not here. There's so much I’m missing out on. I see people in the stores all the time, moms and daughters… and the daughter’s throwing a fit because she's not getting what she wants. That should be me and my daughter arguing over what shoes she’s going to get or what car I’m going to buy her…. I’m missing out on so much,” said Dunn.
Note the focus is on her, and not upon Hailey; not upon what Hailey went through or may be going through.  Narcissistic lack of empathy for what Hailey suffered. What is Hailey missing out on?
Her academic career?
Cheerleading?
Prom?
Nothing is mentioned about Hailey, only about what she is missing.  The expected is that a mother would be full of fear over what her child has gone through and may be going through. 
Bilie Dunn and Shawn Adkins were both named "Persons of Interest"
Is there still a conspiracy of unity between Shawn Adkins and Billie Dunn?  Even while carefully watching her words:  Pronouns do not lie. The word "we" shows unity and cooperation:
"We have no contact whatsoever and haven't in a long time and I don't want any contact with him. When I finally did get him to move out he started harassing me badly. I saw another side of Shawn. He harassed me day-in and day-out, at work, at home….cussing me, threatening me...” said Dunn.
That she can use the pronoun "we" in connection to him, adding the word "whatsoever" (sensitivity) indicates contact and unity with him.  Note that he is "Shawn", first name. 
on Adkins' guilt:  
"I think it's a possibility, a good possibility. after seeing the way he reacted when we broke up and I think back to what local law enforcement had told me and been trying to tell me. I just thought it wasn't true,” said Dunn.
The unity of their deception continues.  The use of the word "we" shows, even in breaking up, there is unity and cooperation.  
What about those suspect her in any way? 
This is the perfect place for her to deny involvement: 
“As much as we say we hate each other - and I try not to say hate cause it's such a strong word- but I hate the guy, and people are still saying maybe he did something and I knew about it. I think it's ridiculous. I’ve got such bigger things going on with my daughter missing,” said Dunn.
Note that in the first sentence, she uses the word "we" twice, regarding herself and Shawn Adkins. This shows a unity between her and Adkins even if not romantically involved. They are in unity and in communication. The guilt of one is tied to the other. 
We have seen the things on her mind in the past two years. 
“How much I love her and want her home so bad… how beautiful she is and how happy I am to see her. I would never let her go."
The only use of the word "Hailey" is when she was alive, at the dentist.  All other quotes avoid using the name, yet she calls Shawn Adkins by his first name, generously using the word "we"

"That pain is always there, and every time a body is found, I'm scared to death that it's her all the time," Dunn said. "I'm looking for answers and closure, but then again, when a body is found, I'm praying it's not her."

Doing the math, this indicates that there are two times she has been scared to death.  
As previously written, it may be that Adkins dumped the body without telling BJD exactly where, but there have only been two bodies found since Hailey went missing and this is the only body in Scurry County, where Shawn said she would be found. 

71 comments:

sidewalk super said...

keep talking, BJD, just keep right on talking!

Anonymous said...

Great analysis, Peter....

Midnight Lurker

Vita said...

"Telling her it was time to sit down and eat Christmas dinner, she likes to eat like any country girl does...and then I saw her the next morning in her bed,” said Dunn.

Why does the above creep me out?
The added, she likes to eat like any country girl does..

Her eyes change, offer a flick, a micro expression when she says the added she likes to eat..

If John is around, maybe he can answer.

BJD has been since first video, is one to touch her nose when informing viewers, with her knowns in critical times of Hailey's case.

She touches her nose in this interview quite a few times. She too when she says she hates the guy, touches her ear. I have read when one lies, they do touch their face. The bigger the lie the higher the sensitive, the hand touches higher upon the face, head.


Time gap - from eating like any country girl, to I saw her the next morning in her bed.

Sunday, December 26th

12:00pm: Hailey arrives home after spending the night with Clint.

2:00pm: Billie, Shawn, Hailey, and David have their Christmas dinner.`

8:00pm - 9:00pm: Hailey is playing X-Box in David's room. David leaves to spend the night with a friend.

10:00pm: Hailey is watching TV in her room. Billie tells her goodnight and goes to bed.
--
BJD interview yesterday video
http://www.ktxs.com/news/Billie-Dunn-speaks-about-the-agonizing-wait-the-identification-of-human-remains-that-could-be-her-missing-daughter/-/14769632/19404100/-/slt1e7z/-/index.html

Jo said...

"It's been utter chaos. It's just been a mess (implies something that needs to be cleaned up, not the misery of a missing child) knowing (uses the word "knowing" instead of just saying my daughter is not here) my daughter's not here. There's so much I’m missing out on. (can't do all the things she did before her death because she is being monitored) I see people in the stores all the time, moms and daughters… and the daughter’s throwing a fit (is this her last memory of Hailey - throwing a fit)because she's not getting what she wants. (Christmas fight) That should be me and my daughter arguing over what shoes she’s going to get or what car I’m going to buy her…. (she doesn't see mothers and daughters as getting along but rather as people who argue) I’m (singular, does not include Hailey in missing out on mother/daughter time) missing out on so much,” said Dunn.

Anonymous said...

13 years old and only one dental x-ray?? WOW...she either had the best teeth in Texas or parents who didn't care enough about her to take her to the dentist..

Juliette said...

"Telling her it was time to sit down and eat Christmas dinner, she likes to eat like any country girl does...and then I saw her the next morning in her bed,” said Dunn.


I don't know if using the repeated period (...) means the same as a period. If so, there is missing information between the two thoughts as Billie starts the next thought part with *And*. Also, Billie changes the tense from past to present to past. It is an odd statement.

In body language, the eyes looking upwards indicate thinking and remembering; eyes looking downwards indicate lying.

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skip said...

I don't think lack of dental x- rays means dental neglect at age 13. Is there any statement that she'd barely been to the dentist, or that she had dental problems?

Vita said...

In the video, BJD is wearing Hailey's Hoodie, was this one of the " Everyone got what they wanted" on Christmas gifts?

Wasn't this photo taken at Shawn's mothers house?

I searched Hailey on images, to find her wearing the Blue/White Apostle Hoodie. This from the NY Daily. The photo description:
Bones

I pray this is Hailey, she then is found. She can rest.

Let justice take its coarse - Perp Walk of the Year, 2013, the dynamic duo no longer free to roam.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1048109.1332346894!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/bones22n-1-web.jpg

Jo said...

“As much as we say we hate each other - and I try not to say hate cause it's such a strong word- but I hate the guy, and people are still saying maybe he did something and I knew about it. I think it's ridiculous. I’ve got such bigger things going on with my daughter missing,” said Dunn.

Basically she is saying - if you think I was involved or that I knew what Shawn did, you need to stop thinking that and feel sorry for me because now a body has been found. She is still trying to be the victim.

Vita said...

Press 3/20/2013

"You know also crime scenes could contain other things it could contain remnants of clothing, you know, hair fiber, not just bones"

SCURRY COUNTY, Texas - As investigators work to identify the remains found in Scurry County Saturday we were curious to know more about the process they're going through.

Retired Special Agent Gary Macnoll spent many years in the Abilene FBI office. Macnoll has nothing to do with the Scurry County investigation, but has been involved in similar cases.

Macnoll said the FBI doesn't show up to every investigation involving a decomposed body, so when they do, there’s a reason.

"In general terms I mean the FBI has a juvenile that has been missing for several years and it would be a logical investigative step to attempt to identify any human remains that are found in this area," said Macnoll.

Mitchell County authorities and Colorado City police were at the crime scene Tuesday, but Macnoll said that's not unusual.

"When there's a missing person from another county all the law enforcement agencies from various counties and departments would work together," said Macnoll.

He said the FBI could have discovered many clues besides skeletal remains in the area around the body.

"You know also crime scenes could contain other things it could contain remnants of clothing, you know, hair fiber, not just bones," Macnoll said.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/Former-agent-talks-about-possible-FBI-involvement-in-Scurry-County-dead-body-investigation/-/14769632/19404234/-/yagt0yz/-/index.html

Jo said...

"Telling her it was time to sit down and eat Christmas dinner, she likes to eat like any country girl does...and then I saw her the next morning in her bed,” said Dunn.

This statement gives me the impression that Hailey was not thrilled about sitting down to Christmas dinner with Shawn and Billie. She had to be told to "sit down and eat".

Anonymous said...

Anon @8:34, I don't see it as a crisis that Hailey only went to the dentist once while growing up. Maybe she didn't need to go. It is possible for a child not to go to the dentist if there's no reason why they should.

I never went to a dentist but once when I was growing up and that was when I had an absessed tooth at around 12 years old. This does not mean that my teeth were neglected. My teeth grew in straight, I had no cavities then, and my baby teeth were easily extracted at home when they became loose. What was the need to go to the dentist prior to the absess? There wasn't one. Just so the dentist could look inside my mouth and say 'you've got nice teeth', when my parents already knew that since I'd never had any trouble with them? Waste of money, right?

What more concerns me is that only one tooth has been found in the remains? So only this one tooth can be compared to this one dental record? Does anyone know; when dental x-rays are made, don't those x-rays also include a portion of the jawbone that the tooth fits into? Well, sure.

Is the structure of the jawbone also different (such as fingerprints are in all of us) so that this one tooth could be ID'ed along with the jawbone it would fit into, and in that way the jawbone/tooth could be matched to Hailey's old dental record?

Maybe Hobnob can research this (or already knows) since she researches nearly everything else except (the Bible and the overwhelming historic proof of it's authenticity) and her very talented writing abilities that she ought to be pursuing.

Now THERE, she could make a forture instead of spinning her wheels on other needless pursuits that will never pay her one thin dime. How 'bout it Hobnob, any knowledge if this one tooth fitting in it's jawbone slot can be ID'ed using Hailey's old dental record? Thank you!

Midnight Lurker

Jo said...

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering, what if it is her? It's been really tough. It's been a few days now I don't know when it’s going to end and when I’m going to get some answers. I was kind of expecting an answer from dental records yesterday, but if they're not able to use the dental records because Hailey only had one picture one view, we'll be waiting for two to three weeks,” said Dunn.

She uses I for all of this statement until she gets to "we will be waiting". Is it significant that she uses "waiting"? I would think the expected would be "we won't know anything". "Waiting" just sounds more like you know the outcome and are just waiting for it to be finalized.

Anonymous said...

The use of the word "we" shows, even in breaking up, there is unity and cooperation

they both are in agreement to go their separate ways. as opposed to i left him or he dumped me.

Anonymous said...

Midnight seems to idolize Hobs. No false idols, my friend.

Anonymous said...

I agree Jo, none of that evening and the christmas dinner makes much sense. The comment; 'she likes to eat like any country girl does', what a stupid thing to say and totally unnecessary. Like they are the only ones who like to eat? Hailey having to be told 'it's time to sit down and eat christmas dinner..'

Many times I've had to tell my kids to come to dinner when/if they were deeply involved in something else, so that seems kind of normal; but what was Hailey doing BEFORE dinner that she had to be told? Did anyone else join them for dinner that we've never heard about? Seems a little strange to me that it would have only been the four of them there having christmas dinner alone.

What did Hailey do AFTER dinner and up until Billie claims she last saw her at 10:00 p.m.? I know, David is said to have seen her on the 'puter at 9:00 p.m., but what about after dinner? Did David actually sit down and eat with them? Did Hailey help with the dishes, or what was going on there?

A lot of missing time, info and family communication. Indicates deception and a family brawl to me. I've often wondered if David knows a lot more than he's ever said.

Midnight Lurker

Juliette said...

Jo at 9:06 AM, I agree. It sounds as though Hailey didn't want to eat Christmas dinner and was told to. Thus the inclusion of *she likes to eat like any country girl does*. It is an unnecessary and strange thing to include in this statement or thought. It feels as though we are being persuaded to believe Hailey wanted to eat dinner. Why wouldn't any girl want to eat Christmas dinner with a good appetite?

The change of tense in this statement seems strange to me, it doesn't present a flowing thought.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 9:37, you are way off the beam, sweetie. I don't even like the woman, nor do I dislike her. I don't think much about her one way or the other; however,I DO respect her intelligence. She is not a stupid woman. Are you?

Sounds like you are; trying to second guess what's inside my thought processes, psychology, for sure not being one of your stronger suits.

Midnight Lurker

Anonymous said...

We aren't *second guessing* what's inside your thought process; it's called using lessons we have learned in statement analysis, midnight lurker....

Anonymous said...

hi folks...i have some questions because i don't know all the details of this case. i have read on here that SA said to look for her in scurry county...what are the details of that statement..why would he say that? and BJD statement about the icky location...weeds etc. i have read on here by posters that she said something like that...also, i too, am interested to know if the son has said anything about behaviors in the house by the adults. thanks for any answer you can give me. - jay

Anonymous said...

Jo, if Billie is saying she hates Shawn (which could also be another one of her many lies), it could be because she blames HIM for her part in killing and disposing of Hailey, like he lured her along, when she went into it willingly and knows she did.

I guess by now she would have a putrid sickening taste in her mouth everytime she thinks about Shawn. Like no one is supposed to remember how much she LOVED that violent and abusive sex, even with multiple partners and dogs. She loved it so much she wanted it video taped, even loved looking at herself doing it.

NOW she wants everyone to believe she blames and hates Shawn for destroying her dirty world, when she knows she had her part in Hailey's abuse and murder; like we're all supposed to believe HE is the one who killed Hailey all by himself, he deceived her all along, now she hates him for it.

Yeah right. Is there still anyone left on this planet who does not know that Billie had her OWN part in Hailey's death? AND her disposal unless there was another party there who helped Shawn dispose of her. I'M betting it was Billie. She's convinced herself that she hates Shawn for what he "made" her do, only that's not what she's telling us.

Midnight lurker

Skeptical said...

"...we'll be waiting for two to three weeks,” I'm not sure whom BJD means by "we" - she and Shawn, she and her attorney, or she and her family. I think she said "we" because she wants to share the anxiety. Part of BJD's anxiety is likely due to knowing that if the body is Hailey, Shawn is going to crack like Humpty Dumpty.

Anonymous said...

Anon @9:34; who is "we"? YOu got a mouse in your pocket? Dumb bunny. Why don't you add something worthwhile to statement analysis concerning the subject matter at hand, instead of jumping on my back? Just shows the limited mentality you have.

Oh well. Beat it, or not. I'm about to be too busy for your silly nonsense.

I DO admire Hobnob's talent, intellect and intelligence. You got a problem with that? Then that's your problem not mine. Comprende'?

Midnight Lurker

Anonymous said...


@ Midnight lurker 10:18 AM

i understand the point you are trying to make, but can you show me a pattern in Billie's past to back up that she is the type who believes that nothing is ever her fault? i have not seen that. i see she has always taken responsibility for her actions.
ty

Lemon said...

Anne, play nice or you'll be asked to leave again.

Anonymous said...


I DO admire Hobnob's talent, intellect and intelligence. You got a problem with that? Then that's your problem not mine. Comprende'?

Two questions within a statement = sensitivity.

Anonymous said...

I hope she does have a long wait, Skeptical, and has a nervous breakdown in the process... which, if she does, just tells us she already knows this is Hailey.

Or if this is not Hailey, she already knows that too and all of her "I'm so worried" play acting is just another one of her deceitful games.

Yeah, I agree. Shawn will crack wide open sooner or later. Evil degenerate that he is, I do think he's told the only truth between the two of them that's been told; He's not about to let Billie cause him to carry all the blame all the way to the Texas death row when she had her part in Hailey's vicious rape and murder too.

If this IS Hailey, maybe Shawns' already lawyered up, maybe even quietly working on cutting a deal? Sometimes silence speaks volumes.

VLW said...

Is the remark, "What if it is her?" the same as an embedded statement, "IT IS HER"?

Anonymous said...

OMG, Anon @ 10:33, are you kidding? How stupid can you get. I'm not about to get involved in all that. What're you? Nuts?

YOu should have been keeping up for yourself these last past 2+ years then you'd already have these answers instead of burying your head in the sand like an ostrich, now wanting to be clued in. Dang. Or is this just your form of sarcasm?

Either way, ask someone else as it sure won't be me bantering back and forth with your ridiculous comments.

Skeptical, the post to you at 10:49 was made by me. Sorry.

Midnight Lurker

Debra said...

BD comments "I see people in the stores all the time, moms and daughters… and the daughter’s throwing a fit because she's not getting what she wants. That should be me and my daughter arguing over what shoes she’s going to get or what car I’m going to buy her" just glare out to me. I have teenage daughters and it seems to me that a mother would say that she was missing the companionship, the mother daughter times that she may never have again. However, she is focusing on the arguments and daughters “throwing a fit because she's not getting what she wants” . This is very revealing to me; Hailey disappeared right after Christmas. I remember in one interview that BD stated “everyone pretty much got what they asked for”. Something is very rotten here.

Anonymous said...

How stupid can you get.
Midnight Lurker














Juliette said...

Debra, at 11:07, makes an astute point. I would also miss my daughter's companionship, I wouldn't think of arguments.

Billie's choice of words are revealing.

john said...

My Body Language Analysis Of BDJ..

@29secs she say's"It doesn't get easy"A micro expression of scorn flashes on and off her face,watch this very closely or you will miss it.
Who or what is this scorn directed at.Is it because LE are closing in on her.
Regards to face touch:

The most common reason people touch their face is not because of a rash, an allergy or a common cold. The most common cause of Facial Touching (Facial MAP aka Manipulator, Adaptor, Pacifier) is anxiety. Certainly there are many reasons for anxiety - but when touching the face, particularly at times of specific point-in-fact statements or when answering factual questions - the probability that deception is being attempted is very significantly elevated. This is even true when everyone knows you're lying - such as a during a joke or obvious hyperbole. The "itching" we feel on portions of our face when a lie is told is very real - it is brought about because of micro neuro-chemical and vascular changes - which in turn occur as a result of the anxiety which arises when a lie is told.
Dr. G. Jack Brown.

@2:38
When she begins to talk about Sean,watch when she say's.

"When i finally did get him to move out he harassed me badly"
You see a flash of anger.This is notable in her jaw jut and her mouth area.

And again @2:43 when she says"I seen another side of Sean"

Her masseter muscles (which close the jaw) can be seen prominently bulging (tightly contracted). Another signal of anger is her thinned lips - which here is coexistent with a partial internal lip roll (ILR). The is a strong nonverbal indicator of an attempt to control negative emotions (here anger, but it can be associated with others such as sadness). It's a signal that the temper is wearing thin.

Why the anger towards sean,whats changed.

Juliette said..
In body language, the eyes looking upwards indicate thinking and remembering; eyes looking downwards indicate lying.

Hi,
There is no connection between eye movement and lying.There have been numerous studies done on this.You can check them out if you do a search on google.

Juliette said...

Hi John,

http://center-for-nonverbal-studies.org/gazedown.htm

"Usage: Gaze-down may convey a defeated attitude. It may also reflect guilt, shame, or submissiveness, as when distorting the truth or telling a lie (see DECEPTION). Gazing down while--or shortly after--stating "I am innocent," e.g., shows that a speaker may not believe his or her own remarks. True statements are normally given with a confident, face-to-face or level gaze, which may be held longer than three seconds."

Vita said...

Thank you John - facial touching while speaking.

Always it has been a stand out with BJD, she touches her nose, taps it, scratches under it.

The times when? when she is being asked for her to tell the world what she knows - as the case is under a tight not said by LE. * Or when something has come out, and it's speculative it is of Hailey's case. She touches her face while speaking, trying to convey covert info, and or she using persuasive language.

Juliette said...

Vita said...
Thank you John - facial touching while speaking.

Always it has been a stand out with BJD, she touches her nose, taps it, scratches under it.
____
Vita, maybe it's pinnochio syndrome, lol!! :)

john said...

Hi juliette,

Ive read that,its only an indicator,there is NO one sure B/L cue that's says, That is a lie. Different cultures around the world consider direct eye contact rude(japan)Its all about context and baseline etc.You will find good liars will make more eye contact,they need to watch you to see if you believe them.Guilt/Shame doesn't necessary mean someone is lying..

john said...

What i found most revealing was the anger BDJ shows towards SeanA.

JerseyJane said...

John, you are the Master of Body Language Analysis!
A good example: Jodi Arias on the stand, touching all over that jaw and around bottom lip.
That same show of anxiety( touching the face) is also on a druggie or someone waiting for their next pill..

BJD also was know to scratch her arms, her neck(Jodi Arias)...
At the beginning of disappearance, BJD displayed that body itch... From no adequate fluids and plenty of prescription drugs(pain meds) in her body produces that itch. Also the reverse is true if she abruptly stopped taking her lovely supply of 'feel goods'.
With Jodi the amount of fluids she drinks on stand can't keep up with the anxiety that drains her body.

That BJD anger (damn, you are good, John) that you spotted directed at SA, I feel BJD's anger is saying, "Sean, you stupid fck, you can't even get this right, fcking hiding the body, WTF!"

it just wouldn't be Billie's thoughts without the fck word! LoL

John, you are so on the shit! Congrats!!

Anonymous said...

by Sean,
do you mean Sean Means, Billie's new FBI guy,
or do you mean
Shawn, Billie's ex boyfriend?

JerseyJane said...

I'm having a Sale on new and used FBI guys, if anyone wants one!........

Hurry y'all, before the collector shows up! LoL

LisaB said...

"I want some answers" sounds more natural than "I want one answer" or "I want all the answers". My opinion only.

LisaB said...

I also wonder if Haileyu only had one PANORAMIC X-ray since the time her adult teeth came in. An x-ray of a damaged/decayed tooth before it was repaired would not be of much value. They probably need to see the orientation of the teeth to one another.

Anonymous said...

The atmosphere here is being distributed by unnecessary feistiness.

Anonymous said...

*disturbed

yes, autocorrect

Hobnob said...

"We have no contact whatsoever and haven't in a long time and I don't want any contact with him. When I finally did get him to move out he started harassing me badly. I saw another side of Shawn. He harassed me day-in and day-out, at work, at home….cussing me, threatening me...” said Dunn.

WE
is used to start the sentence and indicates unity.
Who is the WE that doesn't want any contact.
Note she doesn't say I have had no contact.

WHATSOEVER every additional qualifier weakens the sentence. Here it weakens the no contact.
She remembered when we picked up on her saying they weren't calling when they were physically in contact still.

AND HAVEN'T IN A LONG TIME.
What is her definition of a long time?
She doesn't tell us so we can't assume.
It could be hours, days, weeks or months.
There is also a dropped pronoun before the words haven't in a long time. She can't take ownership of it so we can't either.

AND I DON'T WANT ANY CONTACT WITH HIM.
She tells us she doesn't want any contact with him, not that there hasn't been any contact with him.
When spoken it reads as if there should be a full stop after long time which would mean the AND indicates missing information.
Contact is mentioned twice indicating sensitivity.

WHEN I FINALLY GOT HIM TO MOVE OUT HE STARTED HARRASSING ME BADLY
She doesn't tell us when she got him to move out nor where they were living.
How many times did she try to get him out before he finally moved out?
Can you harrass someone goodly?
The additon of the qualifier badly weakens the harrassment.
He started harrassing, is he still harrassing?
To harrass someone there has to be contact of some kind which negates the no contact whatsoever.

i SAW ANOTHER SIDE OF SHAWN
How many sides to shawn are there?
Since he has admitted making threats against Hailey, herself and other family members and she has admitted he made threats ttowards them, this is the same side of shawn she is seeeing now as back then, the thug.
Is there another side of shawn that perhaps is telling her if i charged for murder and everything else i am taking you with me.
Is the side she is seeing shawn making sure she gets serious time as well?

HE HARRASSED ME DAY-IN AND DAY-OUT, AT WORK, AT HOME... CUSSING ME, THREATENING ME...
This contradicts her initial claim of no contact whatsoever, threats, cussing etc are all a form of contact.
Note the dropped pronoun before the at work and at home.
If he was harrassing her as claimed did she file a police report?
How did he manage to contact her at work?
What is her job?
Are their records of his calls to work.

This is a weak statement with contradictions.
I think he is now telling her if the remains are Haileys/she is found/ they charge him for something, he will throw her under the bus as well.
If he goes down he is taking her with him.

She is also telegraphing that when push comes to shove and she thinks LE are close to charging her for something she is going to throw him under the bus, with his track record and the fact he is POI she will make sure he doesn't walk away.
This is blackmail in public.

Hobnob said...

“As much as we say we hate each other - and I try not to say hate cause it's such a strong word- but I hate the guy, and people are still saying maybe he did something and I knew about it. I think it's ridiculous. I’ve got such bigger things going on with my daughter missing,” said Dunn.
Note she tells us WE SAY
We indicates unity.
Say doesn't mean it's true. I could sy the moon is made of camembert it doesn't mean it is true.
She doesn't tell us they hate each each other, only that they SAY they hate each other.
Since she uses WE which indicates unity there is no hate unless you class the hate they are feeling for being in the situation they created and are thus inextricably united partners in crime.
The only time they will cease being we is when they are charged and in court where it will be every man for themselves.

She hates the guy (identity concealed) rather than saying she hates shawn
Who is the guy she really hates?
The officers in the case?

Who are the people who are saying maybe he did something?
Notice how she minimises it from murdering Hailey to something.

I THINK IT'S RIDICULOUS
Here would be the perfect place to make a strong, first person singular event specific denial and she doesn't.
She tells us people think she is involved in the murder of her daughter an all she can say is it is ridiculous.
if she can't deny involvement we can't do it for her.

I'VE GOT MUCH BIGGER THINGS GOING ON WITH MY MISSING DAUGHTER
What can be much bigger than her boyfriend being the killer of her daughter and her being involved?
Perhaps her fear of the remains being Hailey and thus ending the charade of her having run away or being alive somewhere are her priority.
A dead Hailey, who has clearly been dead a long time, found in an area close to shawn's relatives and whose bones may reveal a cause of death (strangulation breaks the hyoid)is going to shine the spotlight right on the POI which is shawn and if shawn goes down he will make darn sure she does as well.
Her concern is to now cover her butt by making these claims about shawn, painting herself as a victim (the domestic violence defence) she was forced to do what she did and so on. The problem is this won't fly since she moved him in after the first death threats, admiited she did porn movies and bestiality and whn she moved away from CC he went with her. She even lied about him not being there when she could have said yes he is hi is threatening me and breaking her own restaining orders.
Billie's priority right now is billie.

Hobnob said...

I recall in the chatroom shawn in his alias messaged me and said billie didn't know the exact place of Hailey's remains as shawn had moved them on the tuesday.

Hobnob said...

It's been utter chaos. It's just been a mess knowing my daughter's not here. There's so much I’m missing out on. I see people in the stores all the time, moms and daughters… and the daughter’s throwing a fit because she's not getting what she wants. That should be me and my daughter arguing over what shoes she’s going to get or what car I’m going to buy her…. I’m missing out on so much,” said Dunn

What is the IT that has been utter chaos and a mess?
Why the distancing language of MY DAUGHTER and not HAILEY?
She talks about what she (billie) is missing not what Hailey is missing.
Notice what she focuses on is negative- moms and daughters arguing rather than the expected positive of moms and daughters shopping togeather and enjoying themselves.
Is this how she saw her realationship with Hailey? arguing, Hailey throwing fits and so on.
She doesn't mention any positives and ends on with her(billie) missing out on so much not on Hailey missing out on so much.
It is all about billie and keeping billie happy.

Lemon said...

Help help I'm being cussed and threatened…

Hailey, Hailey who?

Hobnob said...

Midnight. Regarding the jawbone.
When xrays are taken they include the jaw as well both partially of the top and bottom. (they did when my dentist did a root canal and i got a good look at my x-ray)

Everyone's skeleton is unique as it is affected by genes, diet, race, any injuries, age and so on.

Identities can be formed from a skull by a good sculpter and has been done often in cases where a skull is found.
Muscles,fat , skin and so on are prety much the same for everyone, The sculpture will place studs on the skull of different heights indicating where the muscles etc can be found and also where the skin is, indicating the depth of clay to be added.
The sculpture will then add clay to the required depth whic will give a fleshed out appearance.
the cly is then smoothed ut to form the 'skin' over the face and then it is painted and eyes added to make a representation of the individual( they can identify gender and nationality so they can get an accurate representation.
Once all is done the head can be photographed and flyers etc posted to see if they are recognised.
it is not always 100% accurate as eye color can be different ( i think they use a generic brown or maybe blue if from say the nordic countries) hair color could be different as well as length ( again this depends on if they have enough info to decide a race)

Depending on what bones have been found, their condition etc it may be possible to get a general idea of identity, if they have a skull or lower part and the tooth or teeth are in situ then a dental xray may provide an identity, they would take an x-ray of the skull or parts of and then overlay it onto the x-ray of the possible victim to see if there is match, it is likely though they will do a DNA test just to make sure they have the right identity.
I would suggest they did a DNA test as a matter of course as this will prove pretty much beyond all doubt if not who it is then who it isn't.

Hobnob said...

Lemon said...
Help help I'm being cussed and threatened…

Hailey, Hailey who?



Let me know when you are being oppressed :)

Anonymous said...

Hailey's Mom Suspects Ex-Boyfriend's Involvement in Teen's Disappearance

She is all over giving interviews
So much for Atty advisement.

- This interview simply stated
" Run Adkin's Run" - BJD is on a mission, guess she needs to control the not yet argument.

Adkins: She is lying, News at 11

http://www.newswest9.com/story/21761526/haileys-mom-suspects-ex-boyfriends-involvement-in-teens-disappearance

Lis said...

She's using the term "we" of herself and Shawn Adkins, but at the same time is openly saying maybe he did have something to do with it.

She's keeping him close to keep control of him, but, at the same time, preparing the way to turn on him.

Get ready, Shawn, you are about to be blamed for all.

Lis said...

There is tension about Christmas dinner. I get the feeling Hailey did not want to sit down to dinner, not sure if it was the eating or the sitting down together. Something is wrong about it.

Juliette said...

http://www.newswest9.com/story/21761526/haileys-mom-suspects-ex-boyfriends-involvement-in-teens-disappearance

Here are some quotes from today's article:

"[He] started [calling] and harassing me and scaring me. I've just seen a darker side of him," Billie said.

She said that after they split, he moved back to his mother's house in Big Spring. We went to his mother's home looking to speak with Adkins. Family was inside the house but nobody would answer the door. Nearby neighbors claim Adkins went out-of-state a few months ago for work.

Meanwhile, they say his parents have been getting death threats in the mail and over the Internet. Neighbors also tell NewsWest 9, his mom and step dad are good, honest people and have been shattered by all of this.

Billie claims that lately she's been reflecting heavily on the past, and how strangely Shawn was acting those first few days after Hailey's disappearance.

"For instance, the main thing about him quitting his job and lying to me about it for a week, saying he had a job and then telling me he was fired when, in fact, he wasn't," she said.

Dunn also finds it suspicious that her ex-boyfriend, she claims, couldn't produce his coveralls, a type of work uniform, when a law enforcement requested them.

"The fact that he lied and said they were at work and we already know through video and through his boss that he didn't leave them at work. So, why are they hidden?" Dunn said.

She suspects he may know more about Hailey's whereabouts than what everyone originally thought.

_________

This is a new article from today.

~ABC said...

Yep. Who else thinks Mac's interview really put the icing on the cake for BJD. She is in full force CYA mode now! She knows....

Anonymous said...

If Shawn had been harassing her badly, calling her at home, at work, wherever, she could have (and would have) taken a restraining order against him. Perfect opportunity for her to start her blame game and public accusations against Shawn.

Midnight Lurker

~ABC said...

Dunn News Article: "She suspects he may know more about Hailey's whereabouts than what everyone originally thought"

LOL. Who is the everyone you refer to Ms Dunn? The everyone's I've been hanging with were all pretty CERTAIN that he know's ALL there is TO know....

Anonymous said...

I thought that initially Billie had done Shawn's work coverall laundry before he left for the job site that morning and turned them in before walking out. This is the explanation that was given at the time concerning Shawn's clean overalls.

Later it was questioned why he turned in freshly laundered overalls when the company provided laundry service for the work clothes. Now Billie is saying that his one pair of soiled coveralls were missing when LE asked for them. How could this story change so drastically?

Hobnob, thank you very much for your response. I was just wondering if that one tooth could be slotted back into the jawbone socket it came out of, compared with a dental x-ray, and the body could be identified this way? Kind of like fitting a piece of puzzle back into the precise place it belongs in? Do you know if this is possible? Thank you!

Midnight Lurker

ecossie possie said...

nonymous said...
OMG, Anon @ 10:33, are you kidding? How stupid can you get. I'm not about to get involved in all that. What're you? Nuts?

YOu should have been keeping up for yourself these last past 2+ years then you'd already have these answers instead of burying your head in the sand like an ostrich, now wanting to be clued in. Dang. Or is this just your form of sarcasm?

Either way, ask someone else as it sure won't be me bantering back and forth with your ridiculous comments.

Skeptical, the post to you at 10:49 was made by me. Sorry.

Midnight Lurker

March 21, 2013 at 11:00 AM
@
Evolution has given ostiches the gift of speed.
The fastest bird on the planet the fastest two legged runner on the planet an for long distances.

Lions wont even attempt to chase an ostrich unless its injured as they know its a waste of energy because an ostrich is not only fast but can spin on a dime an far more manuvrable at speed than a four leged preditor.

An yet early european visitors to Africa confused by the heat haze an false horizons wich we can see when driveing on a hot day on tarmac roads.

Looks like flat pools of dark water.They saw what apeard to be thease strange long necked birds burrieing there heads
In what apeared to be close proximity of lions.
So they wrongly assumed that Ostriches when under threat of attack hide there head in sand beleiveing if they cannot see there attacker.
Then vice a vercea is true they did not give much thought to there theory.

Any animal adapting that as a defence srategy would not survive an would have gone extinct eons ago.

We as humans are more inclined to such moronic behaviour than a beutifully adapted for running bird like the Ostrich. ps thats just one of many false beleifs about animals.
Another is the myth that lemmings commit mass suside when there poulation explodes.
A kind of self culling .
Another myth as some one some where saw a migotry number of lemmings punge of a cliff into the sea an rocks below an certain death.
We now know many migotry animals birds but whales mammals ect can have a kind of in built G P S .
It helps them navigate an migrate over thousands of miles.

Those lemmings g p s could have been out of whack or perhaps a rock collapse destryed a land bridge leaveing only a sheer cliff.
Who knows but again anoth faslse myth was born an still taken as fact by the majority of the population.
ps hobnobs da bomb

Anonymous said...

Not true. A restoration would mos certainly be useful.

Anonymous said...

G'mornin' Possie. Thank you for the animal kingdom history lesson last night. Very interesting. Yes, I know an ostrich is considered nearly as fast as lightening, or nearly as fast as any animal can be and with magnificient hearing capabilities; have seen them on the history channel. Many animals can detect silent sounds, communications or vibrations from long distances that no human could ever know.

I love the study of animals, wildlife, fouls & birds, fishes and creatures of the sea. I believe they all in many different categories somehow have communication between themselves and each other. Recently, a large number of whales swam long distances, came together from different areas, beached themselves together and died there. How? Why? A great mystery that only they know.

I could cite you so many examples where there could have been no way certain incidences occured without some of these birds and other animals/mammals having some communication with each other, including cats and dogs.

I guess I used the wrong choice of words in my previous post. Thank you!

Midnight Lurker

Nic said...

Juliette said...
Debra, at 11:07, makes an astute point. I would also miss my daughter's companionship, I wouldn't think of arguments.

Billie's choice of words are revealing.

March 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM


IMO it's just more seepage from BJD. She's telling readers fighting was indicative of just how tumuluous their mother/daughter relationship was. Given what she has said and behaviour directed at many others after Hailey's disappearance, I would make the next leap in logic and say "fighting" is what led up to Hailey meeting foul play. I say foul play because officials revoked the "Reward" and made an official statement that they believed Hailey was dead.

"I can't quit thinking about it and wondering, what if it is her? It's been really tough. It's been a few days now .....I don't know when it’s going to end .... and when I’m going to get some answers.

Sounds to me like BJD is suffering in the knowledge that "some day" the gig will be up. It also bothers her NOT knowing what LE already knows, i.e., that if the remains that were found are Hailey, "If" they know enough to indict her for the murder of Hailey Darlene Dunn.

I wonder what it's like feeling like a trapped rat. I wonder if she did know how much LE already knows but that they won't move withought a body, if she would be a flight risk? I wonder if she has that itch to tip her hand and take a trip, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.


I was kind of expecting an answer from dental records yesterday, but ...

Weak ascertain (kind of). "But" refutes that which came before it.

I think she suspects she knows the answer everyone is waiting for. But there's always the "what if".

On a personal level, I don't know if it is Hailey or not. But I think BJD's statements are a reflection of how she's feeling living her life these days.


jmo

Nic said...

I think she suspects she knows the answer everyone is waiting for. But there's always the "what if".


Sorry to quote myself. I forgot to add one thing...

BJD is a "confident liar". The option #3 would be to do what she has always done: Lie about her involvement with the added twist of playing Shawn's "submissive victim" of circumstance.

jmo

Hobnob said...

Hi midnight

It might be possible to slot the tooth back into the jawbone assuming the jawbone is intact, if it isn't then it is possible the tooth may not be releavnt to the part of the jaw they have.

A more reliable indicator of identity is taking a DNA sample from the tooth or from part of the bone (depending in condition of the bone.


It may be that they cannot identify the remains as being FROM someone if they don't already have a sample from the missing person such as from CODIS etc, it can however exclude possible identities such as Hailey, Kyron, etc.
We don't know right now who it is, we do know who it isn't.

Also as DNA forensics has rapidly advanced it is possible to identify someone even if there i no copy of theur DNA on record.
Familial DNA can provide a link and they can then narrow it down to who is missing, who has died etc.
Many cases have been solved decades after the crime because a family member got arrested, a swab taken and a partial match has been revealed pointing LE to the relatives of the person whose sample they tested and it's got you, you're nicked!

The condition of the bones even i not from a full skeleton can reveal perhaps when they were dumped, and depending on the bones sometimes even a cause of death. Animal predation will leave certain types of marks, injuries caused by weapons, illnesses etc leave others.

Every skeleton is unique in appearance, dependng on the bones, old injuries can leave their mark such as a broken bone, operations on the like the same.
They will likely have a rough age for the victim given their size and also there gender (pelvis's are a dead giveaway) they will have a rough height perhaps if a femur is found.

I suspect they will do a DNA test as a confirmation of the identity that way should it be a case of homicide for example, the defence can't claim well it might be xx they could still be alive.

Anonymous said...

I understand that SA is a guideline and nothing is in stone. Sometimes people say things and there is no underlying meaning.. Karyn said, sometimes a glass of water is just a reference to water (not an exact quote but along those lines) nothing more... i have ADD bigtime and often when i talk I wander, i use words like so and anyway to get back to the point. How do we know when deceit is the reason for such words and when it is poor speech habits? I believe BJD to be a liar, in league with Casey. I am referring to people that arent as obvious, or like BJD said, that arent blatant liars.

NVmomma702

Anonymous said...

When Billie Dunn said "As much as we say we hate each other - and I try not to say hate because it's such a strong word...but I hate the guy." she seemed to be saying that "we" as a society throw the word hate around quite freely and she does not; it's something she reserves for Shawn. Therefore, the two instances where "we" is used in this statement do not refer to her and Shawn.

Hobnob said...

Anonymous said...
I understand that SA is a guideline and nothing is in stone. Sometimes people say things and there is no underlying meaning.. Karyn said, sometimes a glass of water is just a reference to water (not an exact quote but along those lines) nothing more... i have ADD bigtime and often when i talk I wander, i use words like so and anyway to get back to the point. How do we know when deceit is the reason for such words and when it is poor speech habits? I believe BJD to be a liar, in league with Casey. I am referring to people that arent as obvious, or like BJD said, that arent blatant liars.

NVmomma702


Hi NVmomma welcome aboard.

When the subject speaks we take the time to learn their personal dictionary, their speech patterns,their rhythm.

This gives us a baseline for what is normal for the subject, if they have a particilar way of using words (correctly or incorrectly) what tenses they use such as I SEEN instead of I SAW, slang etc.
We look to see when their language or rhythm changes and what causes the change.

In your case, your use of so and anyway would be consistent, it is part of how you speak, your rhythm.
The interviewer would look to see if it changes and where and if it was cinsitent if the qustion is asked again later or in a different way.
For example, we say SO is an indicator and should be noted when it appears, if you use SO often in your normal speech, we would look to see where it isn't used, another example would be YOU KNOW, which is used to convince and convey, again we would note when it appears and if it part of their normal speech and where it doesn't appear.

Everyone is different when they speak depending on many things age, gender, first language, education, location.
Certain things are universal such as pronouns, I, me, mine.
We look for where they appear, where they don't, when it changes and if the change is warranted.
The basics are the same regardless, the hard part i learning the subjects personal dictionary, what is normal for them even if to you it is anything but.
Context plays a part as well, is the language appropriate, does it fit wuth what they have said before.
If we are interviewing, we can go back and ask moe detailed questions,queations pharased differently to see if the aner is the same.
With written statements it means read, re read, and then come back later and read and re read again and we will see up to 40% more info.
It also helps in this blog having many eyes looking at a statement as we all will see it slightly different and pick up on particular words than another may have missed or come to a different conclusion on. Between us i think we do a pretty good job plus when we see the verdicts or conclusions we can see how we matched up.

Anonymous said...

I too find something very "off" about Billie feeling the need to point out that her daughter "likes to eat like any country girl does." Just reading it actually made me feel unsettled.