http://www.firstcoastnews.com/brunswicktoddlermurder/article/305674/634/Daughter-of-Brunswick-victim-questions-mothers-story
Statement Analysis has shown sensitivity surrounding the issue of money for the mother of the baby that was shot. Her account showed sensitivity, and the mother spoke about how "expensive" a baby is.
Her statements are so strange that it is no wonder that law enforcement suspected her before arresting two teens.
Here, the grown daughter, Ashley Glassey, says of her mother:
"How soon do you think life insurance policy will send me a check?"
and
"She changed her story as far as she told me that the baby was shot first and then she told me that she was shot first. "
The daughter shared her concerns about her mother with police.
246 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 246 of 246Jen, I didn't transcribe the entire interview just the things that really struck me as stand outs. The entire interview is odd, and most of it is the father explaining where he was at the time of the murder and why, which like West, comes across as sketchy to say the least. Both make minimal statements when asked about the baby directly....vague things, he liked this and that, one sentence usually, then back to irrelevant things or explaining away things. Neither focus on the loss of the child or his tragic murder.
..funny thing is he adds they have no car..it's 'broken down'. So they walk. But he drops off neighbors when they all went shopping together.
Also says theirs is a 'beautiful neighborhood', that others from elsewhere might come there to commit crimes (because it's a better area)..then adds fear of the area, warning West. 'I can defend myself'.
And then there's the mention of medications...
We all know who did the shooting, who was there (so far), who assisted. Not much question there. The parents statements are unusual, for whatever reason.
Carla--Thank you for transcribing--this interview is full of things that need to be looked at. Thank you for your work!!!
I have read through one time:
What is grabbing me immediately on 1st read is:
Why, after his unnamed neighbor who he is shopping with gets a phone call from his 1st floor neighbor "Nana" saying there had been a shooting involving his wife and son, but who then tells Nana to "stop playing, it's not Lou's family and hangs up--why after Lou has been told (even if he thinks Nana is "playing") that his family has been involved in a shooting does he not want to take Nana's call when she calls again?
He says he was "on the line" so he does not want to "get on the line" but then he thought "let's get this done" and it was the police department on the line.
"Let's get this done"???????????????????????
This implies that Lou already knew what had happened to his family and OK, now it's time to get the call with the police over with.
ALARMING
Lou was "all of a sudden" at the checkout counter.
ALARMINNG
Was this not a commonly used phrase by that army guy who killed his family but claimed it was invading hippies who did it? I believe he too used "all of a sudden" throughout his tale.
Lou uses "you know" frequently throughout his story. Is this a habit of speech of his? Because if not, it is a sign of deception. He is using "you know" to "convince" the listener of lies.
Another thing that was stuck in my head before I read the transcript is that I feel there is sensitivity surrounding the word "window".
Lou describes saying "hi" to his baby that morning "THROUGH the WINDOW" (which is unusual).
He also says that there must be witnesses to this crime as it happened "IN the neighbor's WINDOW".
(Maybe it is nothing, but my brain focused in on it.)
Dadgum, I remember reading this comment by their friend after seeing the video...
Wally Mathis’ home of 10 years sits on Ellis Street in the next block from where Antonio was slain.
His friends Santiago and West didn’t have the means to buy a car themselves, Mathis said, so he and Frank Van Delinde bought a used Buick together and sold it to them on time. “They paid every week, never missed a payment, until they paid it off,’’ Mathis said.
Ellis Street has become the thoroughfare between public housing to the west and Dixville to east.
Mathis said that he hears people going by at all hours, there have been break-ins, some unreported and sometimes he hears shots in the night.
So according to the friend, it was actually a dangerous neighborhood. He also contradicts Santiago's statement that HE was the one to take the baby on walks everyday, West never did because of her "bad legs".
“Most every day, you’d see her out strolling the baby,’’ Mathis said of West.
Layla, exactly what I was thinking in reference to "Let's get this done"
"This implies that Lou already knew what had happened to his family and OK, now it's time to get the call with the police over with."
In one interview West says the boy 'suddenly' stepped in and shot Antonio..in another she was shoved away.
Interesting to play interviews one after the other,
Peter, is it best to look at each statement alone? Or after individual SA, to compare them (each speaker's statements to their own) when multiple statements are available?
Also what bothers me is the over explaining done about the shopping trip. No need to explain in detail His friend called and asked him if he wanted to go shopping, she further explained that she was dropping Mr. Williams off at TJ Maxx and could drop Santiago off at Walmart, which is odd since she asked him if he wanted to shopping with her. Then he also adds "and so we were Walmart, shopping"....if you're there one would just assume you were shopping, no need to add that. he spent most of the interview explaining why he was at Walmart and how that came to be. Why?
I agree the teen murdered baby Antonio, but there is also more to this story. CarlaP, thank you for the transcript.
Carla--It is mind-boggling.
One thing that occurred to me about the in-depth description of shopping is alibi building. And he was, most likely, there. In fact, as he lets us know, "all of a sudden" he was at the checkout counter when the call from the police comes in. He left his stuff there. Did he get a receipt so cops know he was there? Perhaps his neighbor he was shopping with has a receipt from her purchases. It is awfully ironic that right at the moment of the police call they are "all of a sudden" at the checkout counter where they can have a date and time marked proof by the receipt of their location. Who knows if they got it (a receipt?) It seems from the story, Lou wanted to put off taking the police call maybe, in part, so that he could receive the receipt???
I am so totally not surprised that mom has an extensive criminal history dealing mainly with drugs. I know many people will disagree with what I am about to say, but here it goes: I do not think that people generally CHOOSE to live in "bad" neighborhoods unless they have a good reason to live there. The number one "good" reason people have is that they want maximum exposure to the kind of the depravity that is on offer in those places. I know I will get plenty of "they're poor! where else are they going to live?" Well, there are plenty of cheap places to live all over the country that are not dangerous and drug-infested. I am quite certain this woman chose to live in a bad neighborhood with her BABY for one reason: it was a place she knew she could easily get a hold of drugs.
If she is totally innocent in this case, then her odd reaction to her baby being murdered must be because she is an addict who never made an emotional connection with her baby.
Here is the last portion of an interview with the mother.
I am trying to remember what Peter has taught about the SCAN technique, so I will try to capitalize certain words according to scan but I am sure someone else could do a much better job because I am not that good at it.
I am also capitalizing the word "but" as, has been taught here, it negates what comes immediately before it.
I have also capitalized ALL OF A SUDDEN because, in my opinion, it is oftentimes found in "storytelling". To, me, it is sensitive. ALL OF A SUDDEN can also be found in the father's statement about "ALL OF A SUDDEN" being at the counter at WalMart when police call him.
"And then, and then ALL OF A SUDDEN, he walked over and he shot my baby right in the face, and, and he must of died instantly BECAUSE I screamed for help and a neighbor to call the police and he ran off, he got scared, BUT I screamed, and I wheeled my baby really quick to a safe place inside the gate of the blue house on Ellis St., and, um, and then, you know, I took him out of the harness and I tried to perform CPR BUT I saw his lungs inflating BUT, um, he was not breathing and there was no pulse and, um, by the time the EMTs got there, the police, they tried too to do CPR also and they, they, we lost him."
The issue of her performing CPR is extremely sensitive, as there are a cluster of BUTS that basically negate the veracity of her performing CPR in my opinion.
Here's the 1st part of the interview with mother:
(I have capitalized any words that are in the "because" category according to SCAN.)
"I was walking home from the, the post office and um I thought, you know I don't go out enough *SO* I should take a walk. And I was 5 minutes from my house next to the blue house out this road here I always walk Ellis St. And a boy approached me and told me he wanted my money and I, I told him I didn't have any money, you know and he said gimme your money or I'm going to kill you and I'm gonna shoot your baby and kill your baby. And I said I don't have any money and don't kill my baby. And he tried to grab my purse and I tried to tell him I don't have any money and then he shoved me and he shot me in the ear and it grazed my head back here (pulls ear forward to show some kind of wound behind this part of her ear). And um, and then, and then, he shot me in the leg and I didn't feel it it got numb I thought it was just a BB gun *CAUSE* it was a small gun. And and then all of a sudden he shot my baby right in the face and he must have died instantly *BECAUSE* I screamed for help..."
See Part 2 which I posted before this which is Part 1. I posted them out of order.
CarlaP...thank you for taking the time and effort to provide the transcripts of Santiago's interview.
I read that Santiago was briefly arrested for "yelling" at West shortly after the incident. Were the police present when Santiago "went off" on West, or did someone summon the police? What was Santiago actually charged with to result in an arrest? Yelling??? Did Sherry press charges against Santiago? Did he violate a protective order? Is there a history of violence between the two?
I wonder what arrangements West and Santiago had in place re: Antonio. Shared custody? Was there a child support order in place? Santiago confirms that West had mental and physical issues...did he ever seek custody of his son?
I think something is definitely up with this mother. What she supposedly went through would put any average mother in a padded room. She doesn't act fazed at all. I also read somewhere that it said her son was cremated and disposed of. Does that mean she didn't even have a burial for him? I'd love to know if anyone else read that.
Sherry has schizoaffective disorder which explains her inappropriate affect, the detachment from her own child, her poor decision (walking down the street with all the Section 8 apartments), confusing statements (not making any sense). I wish the daughter understood her mom's mental illness and told everyone very early after this horrid crime.
In the Piers Morgan interview, Morgan asks sherry if she has any doubts whether the shooter in custody is the actual shooter. Her response is:
"Um, I have no doubts that that the, the shooter they have in custody-- I, I’ve seen um his photo, um, on another report or cell phone of the,the man that um they have in custody and it’s definitely him."
What is she referring to?
On Peter's post, Charlie Rogers awaits sentencing, Lemon posted this article:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-find-bullet-killed-ga-baby-18832488
Apparently a city council member & "Mayor Pro tem" has been arrested for willfully obstructing law enforcement.
It has also been said that this council member is related to D.Elkins.
Also, does anyone know if the FBI is involved in this case? Just curious.
I read an article about the arrest. This councilman was arrested for stepping between the accused boy's mother and cops in the courtroom. Why were cops approaching her in the courtroom? If anything, this sounds improper.
There is SO much to digest from the Santiago transcripts! This one troubles me:
Father: You know, I was listening to Steve Harvey show..um...I think on Monday, and in Chicago, you know they got some gangs... and you know everywhere..and they shot a 6 month old, and I says man thank god man I'm not in that category and my son was there playing with me that morning...and then that Tuesday, or Wednesday, it was, I was one of the statistics....um...that uh..it happened I didn't believe it, I couldn't believe it when I was, got the phone call and sure enough it was. And uh....I said nah, it's not them, and sure enough it was. And uh....
______________________
Antonio and Sherry were shot THURSDAY morning, March 21...not Tuesday or Wednesday. I find it incredulous that Luis can't even recall the date his son was murdered.
This case has the hinky stink all over it! Whoever said that it seems as though West wanted to eliminate two burdens - a baby and a (possibly drug) debt - at once, I think that is right on the money and is the feeling I am getting too. But what I can't make sense of is, wouldn't Elkins just spill beans about his associations with West and/or Santiago, if that were the case? I mean he's got a lot of physical evidence against him, denying his involvement outright isn't likely to get very far. I'd expect him to give up any and all dirt her has one the baby's parents, given the situation he's in facing murder 1 charges.
Dad's comments are weird. He does not seem truthful. My take-away from reading the transcripts is that he's not as practiced at lying or fabricating stories as West, and so he comes off as extremely nervous and unsure of himself and what he's saying.
Hope we get to find out what really went on in this case.
Just speculating here. Perhaps Santiago planned for "it" to go down the previous Tuesday or Wednesday. That might explain his confusion with the dates.
I'm sorry...I can not understand how a father wouldn't know the day of the week that his child was murdered.
I'm also reminded that Santiago warned West "FREQUENTLY" not to walk that dangerous route. West mentioned that walking was good for her heart...she made no mention of her bad legs, back, and neck from previous accidents.
It appears West walked with her son regularly...why does Santiago say otherwise in the interview?
Pak31, there are conflicting reports. The first one I read stated that SW did not want Antonio's ashes and asked the crematorium staff to "dispose of" (which I took as spread) his ashes as they saw fit. Later I read that a friend of the the father stated the father requested his ashes. I don't know how accurate the account of the friend is as he also stated that Antonio was cremated on Monday, which is not accurate, he was already cremated by Saturday evening, so it was done Friday or Saturday morning.
Layla, you're absolutely right with SW performing CPR is extremely sensitive, notice in the interview with the father it is the first thing she told him when he arrived at the hospital, 'he's dead, he's dead I tried to give him CPR, he had a hole in the back of his head, you know his face...'
Fern, I found the mention of the Steve Harvey show suspicious....IF they are involved with setting up the shooting, this would indicate the source of the idea.
SW has a long history of substance abuse issues, a 20 year history of child abuse and seemingly has made a "living" off of "accidents" and being disabled. It's not implausible that this could have been an orchestrated incident, that Elkins was supposed to shoot her and the baby for an insurance payoff or lawsuit, and added disability benefits but it went tragically awry when he shot Antonio in the head. The focus of the parents in interviews has not been the death of their child, that is seemingly an after thought, it has been alibi building and explaining away why they were at the locations they were that morning. Mental illness is a broad spectrum, from depression to schizophrenia. Not all people with ailments labeled as mental illness are babbling, incoherent lunatics. It can also produce cunning, cold and calculated behavior. Such as Antisocial personality disorder:
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
The only "diagnosis" of mental illness of SW is from her daughter, and it is vague at best. I haven't seen anything in her interviews that came across as anything other than deflection and narcissism.
A PERSONALITY disorder is not a mental illness. It is one's PERSONALITY. For your future reference.
Just thinking out loud here...
There is no question in my mind that Elkins killed the baby and shot Sherry. I believe Sherry ID'd the correct party. If Sherry were involved, she wouldn't make ANY identification. No one involved in such a crime implicates the actual "hit man."
Sherry wants the shooter to "die" for what he did. Santiago, on the other hand, doesn't even BLAME the shooter. Santiago "forgives" the shooter. Santiago "prays for" the shooter.
Santiago blames West for Antonio's death because she walked past the projects on her route home from the post office. The logic reminds me of blaming a scantly clad woman for her own rape.
What if he wasn't the hit man. What if he was just disposing of the gun?
On a side note, I was telling my husband about this story and I think I missed some stuff...and he said, "So wait, the alleged shooter's aunt and this baby's mom colluded to get rid of their kids?"
Sus, for future and current reference, you may want to read what the medical community's opinion of that is.
A personality disorder is a type of mental illness in which you have trouble perceiving and relating to situations and to people — including yourself. There are many specific types of personality disorders.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/personality-disorders/DS00562
To clarify, the point is that there are all sorts of possibilities here.
The investigators have told us that they know who disposed of the gun, when they disposed of the gun, and where they disposed of the gun: they aso know Elkin's family was involved with that.
Investigators also say they don't know where the gun came from, and all they'll tell us is that the aunt was a convicted felon who should not have had a firearm (he said, "I'll leave it at that."
Do we know if the robbery of the pastor had been publicized or reported?
CarlaP,
I think there is discussion in the medical community about whether personality disorders should fall under the umbrella as "mental health" disorders, because the kind of treatment for them oftentimes fails people who have personality disorders.
The problem, though, is rational thinking is often affected by an inability to regulate emotions. For example, perfectly healthy people become irrational when angry, though that subsides.
I can't discount the possibility that Sherry is just emotionally detached or emotionally confused. If her emotions are erratic, she may even lie about things that aren't necessary to lie about...making her look suspicious.
If she and Santiago were involved with illegal activity, that could well explain the shiftiness of their behavior...add to that potential affect disorders. Santiago said he takes medication too...maybe their relationship began because they shared that affective disorder. Who knows.
People have mentioned the sensitivity of CPR, though...and I'm still wondering why Antonio was sleeping in his stroller so early in the day while his mother just put him in the stroller.
Thank you. Working with the behaviour disordered/ emotionally disturbed was my career before retirement. I'll use the DSM criteria before an internet site for lay people.
I thought Sherry's statements were "weird" at first also. When I heard she had settled in two car accidents, I thought maybe they were set up and she owed money to whomever set them up. I considered that the two boys were sent to collect.
But when her daughter said schizophrenic tendency it all fell into place. She is telling what happened from her paranoid perception. Look at it from that angle and it makes sense.
A schizophrenic displays flat emotional affect, but inside focuses highly on the negativeemotions of fear, anxiety, and GUILT. Thatmay be why Sherry explains she had no money...guilt. Focused on CPR...guilt it didn't work. Her whole story can be explained by guilty feelings. Look at it.
I don't believe the boys shot the baby.
I feel it's a set up.
Why fo the cops keep arresting anyone who looks at the sideways for "interference"?
The set-up began with the anonymous call where the caller claimed he saw the alleged shooter crounching down in a car.
How does one see a person crouched in a car.
I have looked and looked at the passage I transcribed from the mother.
There is such sensitivity around CPR. I believe she did not perform CPR.
Her statement "He must of died immediately BECAUSE I screamed...." is sensitive according to SCAN.
The sentence connects the horrible nature of her baby's death as well as the time of his death (IMMEDIATELY) with a non sequitur: She knows he died immediately BECAUSE SHE SCREAMED.
To me, this is a defensive posture to take: He died immediately and her proof of this are the efforts she made to help him ie. screaming for help.
To me, I feel, according to SCAN this makes "he must of died immediately" VERY SENSITIVE. My feeling is that he was dead previous to the screaming, maybe drugged before he was shot.
Bleat--I think you're on to something: "Maybe he was not the hitman but just disposing of the gun."
Sus--She is not schizophrenic though. She chuckles at one point in an interview--this is not flat affect.
Her thinking seems logical. Even what seems to be paranoia about this shooting being connected to her older son's stabbing and crack cocaine is not a bizarre delusion. A bipolar type delusion perhaps. She is certainly not in a manic phase. Depressed bipolar maybe.
I just gotta add one more thing, and then I'll shut up.
Please look carefully at this sentence from Sherry's statement.
"I was walking home from the, the post office and um I thought, you know, I don't get out enough *SO* I should take a walk."
I have capitalized "SO", because according to SCAN what comes before this word is sensitive.
This is my read on it: Sherry tells us she went to the post office and then thought that since she doesn't get out enough she would go for a walk.
So, there are 2 reasons for her being out walking her baby 1) she was walking to the post office and 2) after she walked to the post office, because she does not get out enough, she thought she should take a walk.
Sherry's "walk" that day is extremely sensitive. She has given 2 reasons for why she was out walking, that, in my opinion, are a form of redundancy which indicates sensitivity as well as she explains her reasons for extending the walk after she went to the post office--this explanation, preceded by the word "SO" is sensitive.
Sherry's walk, the walk she was on when her baby was shot, is sensitive.
The reasons she give for being on the walk are sensitive. Her reason for lengthening her walk after going to the post office is sensitive.
My feeling is that Sherry's walk was for neither of the reasons she gave (post office and additionally because she doesn't get out enough), but rather had a purpose which was not a good one.
Sus, I would agree with you about her odd reaction stemming from guilt, had I read or heard anything SW has said that would indicate any attachment, love or concern for Antonio. I've only heard me me me. I'd like to see it from your perspective...what have I overlooked viewing her response in a negative light that you are seeing differently?
Fern, In regards to your question, why would SW identify a suspect that could turn and implicate her? I read this "just following orders" theory online:
"The mom may have owed a debt to some drug/gang members. She may have told the head gang member that she could get insurance money if her son was killed, and could pay them back. The head gang member may not have relayed all that information to an underling and only told him to shoot the baby either for money or for gang cred. The underling, (Elkins) would never rat out the head guy. And the mom would be faking tears and acting because she knew what was going to happen because it was part of the plan."
I really vacillate about this case.
Initially, I thought it was orchestrated by Sherry, and perhaps Luis as well. With the arrests of Elkins, Lang, and Elkins' mother, aunt, and sister, I thought it was clearly random and likely gang-related. I also caught Elkins' FB page before it was taken down...it was apparent to me that the kid is trouble on steroids.
The indictment against Elkins for the shooting of Pastor Wilfredo Calix-Flores ten days earlier sealed it for me.
Since reading the transcripts you posted of Santiago's interview (again...thank you for providing them)...I'm left speechless.
I think Santiago may have HATED Sherry and Antonio...especially Antonio.
We've picked Sherry apart pretty well. But what do we know about this Santiago dude?
Fern, I'm going back and forth too.
I just looked up the area, and it appears that shootings for money are not totally uncommon.
Santiago's statements are bewildering, to say the least.
The alleged shooter looks like the guilty party. I look at only one thing--the deception in Sherry and the father's statements.
I am a little confused about the walk home from the post office. Is SW trying to say that she took a long route from the post office, i.e. "went for a walk?" Is she trying to explain why the crime happened in a place she would not have been expected to be? Because otherwise if you walked TO the post office, then you would pretty much have to walk back.
I find it odd that she feels the need to explain this. Most people walk to places like the post office if they are within walking distance!
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