Thursday, April 11, 2013

John Carter Radio Interview

 In the disappearance of Katelyn Markham, John Carter is indicated for deception. Here is an interview he gave on radio 6 days after calling 911.  

The interviewers do a very poor job interviewing him as they are more prone to making statements and asking compound questions instead of seeking information, yet analysis of his answers show deception.  This is consistent with other statements he has made. 

Statement Analysis shows that he is withholding information about what happened the night he left Katelyn Markham's apartment.  Please see prior analysis. 

Statement Analysis is in bold type. 

JC:  Um... Not - not too good. 
TJ:  John, let me ask you, when was the last time you saw Katelyn?

JC:  Um, I uh, saw her at her house, at uh... on Saturday night.

SS:  Last Saturday night.  And you thought nothing of it, it's like, "Love ya, see ya later."  What was the last communication you had with her?  Did you speak to her on the phone?

Compound questions should be avoided.  Here the interviewer suggests a response for him. 

JC:  No, I, uh... she had sent me a, a few text messages after I left her house.

Leaving of her house is very sensitive to the subject.  At this point in his language, he is not home, but is "leaving" her house:  Missing Information. 

TJ:  Mmm.

JC:  Um, just, just a few things about, uh, some things she wanted me to do for her.  She, she was consistently busy, so I had to help her do a lot of things.

Here we have the explanation as to why he did something, upon leaving.  Here is the area of missing information from John Carter that is directly related to the disappearance of Katelyn Markham.  These are two sensitivity indicators very close together. 

SS:  And all of a sudden you don't hear from her.  When - at what point did you think, maybe there's a problem?

The interviewer should avoid making assumptions as well as compound questions.  The interviewer is feeding information that is likely untrue.  We should be careful how we word our questions as we may teach the subject how to lie. 

JC:  Um... well uh, after I went home, I sent her a good morning text message.  And then I woke up the next day, and normally she sends me a good morning text message... um, but at - you know, like - she sends me something back saying thank you, and all that stuff, but - um, she didn't, uh, send anything.  But that - that didn't entirely worry me, I just thought maybe she was busy or something, or she just woke up late for work or something.  But then uh... you know, there was just, uh... I sent - she sent me, uh - or then I sent her a few more text messages, no response, and all that stuff, and uh...

Note the pronouns, "I sent, she sent me, or then I sent..."
Note the greeting text message sent which may be used to appear as if he expected a response, yet he uses the word "normal", a linguistic signal that it was anything but normal.  
Note he reports what he did not "entirely" worry about, in the negative (it "didn't) making it sensitive. 

Pronouns don't lie.  Note "I sent, she sent me, or then I sent..." as a confusion of pronouns.  
Note "no response" has dropped pronoun. 
"All that stuff" shows that there were more things going on in the mind of the subject other than just "no response."  This is a critical time for him; one that he reports in the negative.  
SS:  And when she didn't show up for work to her job, then, then - then you knew something clearly was going on.

The interviewer does not ask questions, but leads him with information.  This impacts the response.  

JC:  Um, actually I had a feeling something was going on when I, uh, saw her car in the parking lot.  And, and I went up to her room, and her purse and keys were still there.

TJ:  Wow.

SS:  Wow.

TJ:  John, what do you think happened?  Do you suspect foul play?

The first question was best.  

JC:  I - I really don't know.  Um, I've been asked this question a lot, and I really, I just have no idea.  I, I couldn't tell you.  Um.  I have the strongest, uh, thought that she would not run away. I mean there's no reason for her to go anywhere.  But other than that, I have no idea what could have possibly happened to her.

Note the stutter on the pronoun, "I", one of the most practiced words in the English language. This shows an increase in tension.  Note that he stutters on it twice, indicating anxiety. 
Note that he does not say, "I don't know" but that the "really" don't know; indicating that he does know "really" something. 
He has "no idea" but then says he has the "strongest thought" that she did not run away, making "no idea" untrue.  
Note the sentence:  "I have not idea what could have possibly happened to her" has the additional word "possibly" added.  

TJ:  Mm.  It's kinda strange that Katelyn would leave without her keys, right?  Did she leave her cell phone as well?

Better to ask if anything else was there

JC:  Uh, yeah.  She had her cell phone on her, apparently.  Um, to this day I still call it, just hoping that maybe she'll answer at some point in time, or something like that.

It has only been 6 days since he reported her missing. 

SS:  What's really unusual about this too, John, is that the car, keys, that's unusual - but the purse!

JC:  Yeah.

SS:  I don't know any woman who doesn't take their purse with them.  When women go to the bathroom - when women are - wherever they are, they have their purse with them at all times.  For her just to take her cellphone may indicate to me, and possibly the police as well, that there was some foul play here, because certainly she's not going to you know, go somewhere.  Even if she decided, you know, "I want to leave and start another life," usually you're going to take something with you that's personal in nature.

Interviewer's speech allows Carter to simply agree and enter into SS' language.  

JC:  Yeah.  Exactly.  And the thing is, is um... she had sent me a picture of a picture of her, that her boss took of her from her internship.  I mean she had two jobs and her internship, and went to school full time.  So I mean, she was consistently busy, but that stress made her stronger.  I mean, she loved the fact that she was being so strong, and, and she was proud of herself.  I mean, there was no, there was no anger [ laugh], at all, when it came to, to high stress.  Um...

Here is a past tense reference by Carter indicating belief or knowledge that she is dead.  At the time of this interview, she was only missing for 6 days and police had not revealed any details to cause anyone to conclude that she was dead.  

Since he claims to the contrary, this is a significant point in his answer that should lead police to ask how he knows she is dead. 

SS:  Right.  John Carter's with us, John Carter the fiance of Katelyn Markham.  Katelyn's been missing from Fairfield now for, um, it'll be a week tomorrow. And you're encouraged if you have any information to call Fairfield police as they continue to investigate this. I believe from what I understand, she was going to graduate from the Art Institute of Cincinnati sometime in the next 30 days, 45 days... September... she works at David's Bridal, so she has the two jobs there... You guys were planning to move out of state, in the late fall, early winter of this year and get married, right?

JC:  Well, uh, we weren't going to get married until way after we moved out.  Um, I mean, I wasn't rushing anything. I mean neither one of us wanted to.  The original plan was to actually leave in October, but then my brother was coming into town, so she and I suggested to just wait until after he came in town, so we decided to postpone it till November; and she could have easily have said, "I just don't want to go," and I would have been totally fine with that. There was no - you know, we weren't forcing it.  You know, we weren't trying to do anything we couldn't handle.

Note critical points:

"We weren't going to get married" instead of "We're not going...." then we have a change from the important pronoun, "we" to the "I" about himself:  This is an indicator of stress and tension.  He mentions that he wasn't rushing anything, dropping the "we" that existed about not getting married. 

Note "we" weren't getting married also changes to "she and I"

Then he said that this was only "suggested" and that "she could have easily have said" giving a strong indication that they had a disagreement about getting married.  This is another indicator (see previous analysis) that the night that Katelyn was last with him, there was a blow out between them.  Here he tells us what she "could have" said and he would have been "totally fine" with it.  He does not say that this is what she said. 

This is a clear point of contention.  

Note that he reports what they "weren't" trying to do.  Most people report what they try to do.  This is very important information related to Katelyn's disappearance. 

TJ:  John, how long have you guys, uh, been together?

JC:  We've been together for six years.

TJ:  Oh, that's a solid relationship right there.

Volatile relationships do go on for years.  
It is foolish for interviewers to make such statements, rather than ask questions.  
Training needed. 

SS:  How - where did you guys meet?

JC:  Actually, my sister had met her on MySpace when I was in high school and she was in high school, and she called me and told me, "Hey, I met this pretty girl, you want to come over and meet her too?"  And I was like, "Oh sure, yeah, why not," and I wound up meeting her, and you know, I guess... as they say, the rest is history.

"Actually" means a comparison of two or more thoughts.  We don't know what he is comparing in his mind, but it is something, to meeting on Myspace.  Perhaps in contrast to Katelyn meeting someone at work, like her boss, in the picture, that is mentioned above.  Was this a point of contention?

"the rest is history" is a strange phrase to use while a fiancé is missing.  "history"

SS:  Yeah, and you've been an item ever since.  What are the reaction, because they've been rather tight-tipped, of her family... How close is she to her mom and/or dad, if either one - 

If there was domestic violence, this interviewer is not going to ask, instead concluding how "solid" an "item" they were.  Unfortunate. 

JC:  She - she was very close to both of them.  Um, she really, like, she really loved her parents very much and, um, they loved her back.  I mean, they, they - actually she's adopted, and they had adopted her, and I mean... they, they really loved her.  Very mu -  Er, they still love her.  Of course.

Past Tense Reference. 

John Carter shows knowledge that Katelyn is dead, and even changes his language as he became aware of what he has just said. 

TJ:  John, Katelyn sounds like such a nice girl.  Did she have any enemies, uh, ex-boyfriends, anything like that?

JC:  No.  I mean, she had an ex-boyfriend, but I mean, he was - you know, six years.  We've been together for six years.  I mean, that's - that's high school stuff, you know?

SS:  Yeah, okay.  And, and as far as police go, I'm sure they have talked to you extensively, as other family members have.  No suspects have been - they're obviously still treating this as a missing person - do they have any suspicions one way or the other if it's foul play, or she left on her own volition?

JC:  Um, well I, uh I mean the news has really been getting - the media has been getting more information than I'm getting, um, uh.  And they, they, I've heard that they were saying that, the police were saying that it was foul play, and then I'm hearing that's there's no signs of foul play.  So I really, I, I don't know.  I mean, I was the one who called in the police, and I was the one who was the first one to realize that she was gone.  Um, and I was in her room, I, I saw - like, I immediately went to her room when I was thinking, you know, "Oh my God, she might be gone" - and it didn't - it looked like she literally had disappeared.  Like just, like nothing seemed messed up, nothing seemed awry, really, and -

Please note, that even without the understanding of Statement Analysis, that John Carter has a reason, only 6 days from her "disappearance" to justify himself.  
Note that he did not "call police" but "call in police", as in to a situation.  Here he attempts to portray himself as not having "done it", yet he never says he did not cause her disappearance. 
Note "immediately" as an additional and unnecessary word.  
Note his change of sentence:  he begins with the negative, "it didn't", but stops himself and reports in the positive.  
*He did not say "she disappeared" but only that it "looked like she literally had disappeared"; as there is a difference.  Lying causes internal stress and it is avoided whenever possible. 

SS:  Where was she the last time - I know you said you had texted each other, you had texted her, there was no response, you had talked the night before.  Um, the last time anyone saw her physically was when?

JC:  Uh, I saw her at 11 o'clock.  Or between 11 and and 11:30 last night.  Or, last night, I'm sorry - um, Saturday night.

We note the appearance of "I'm sorry" in any form as a possible indicator of guilt.  That it should come in to his language, given the deception, may be due to the internal guilt he feels over what happened, or possibly his deception to the interviewer.  

SS:  Last Saturday night.

JC:  Yeah.

TJ:  That Saturday night, did she seem distracted, did she seem like something was on her mind?

JC:  Not at all.

TJ:  Nothing?

JC:  Totally normal night.

When someone uses the word "normal" it is a strong indicator that the night was anything but normal.  Not only was it not "normal" it was "totally" a unique night.  

SS:  And you had plans, and said "Hey, I'll see you tomorrow, or I'll talk to you tomorrow, hey, good luck at work tomorrow..."

JC:  Absolutely.

SS:  That whole thing, and sometime in that point ... I know, and we'll play the 911 call here in a little bit here, you had mentioned that I think the Sacred Heart festival's going on up the street, and you seemed to indicate to the dispatcher that maybe something was go - I mean, had she planned to go to that festival, or - ?

JC:  No, she wasn't planning on going.  I mean, she was pretty much exhausted every night.  We had actually went Friday, and she didn't even really want to go Friday, but I, uh, I just was like, "Let's just go ahead and go, because it's not going to be every day that we have this festival"... and we used, we went every year, I mean since we first started dating we've gone every year.  And I don't know, I just kinda... the only reason why I brought it up when I called the police was because, I mean, there's so many different kinds of people there, it's not just you know, Catholics and things like that, it's all walks of life that go to that festival.

Recall that he has "no idea" yet he did have an idea, which he defends, when he attempted to blame someone attending the festival.  This debunks the statement of having "no idea" what happened to Katelyn. 
Note the disagreement as she did not "really" want to go Friday.  

SS:  Well, if you're from Cincinnati, you know you go to church festivals, even if you're not Catholic - it's just what people, what Cincinnatians do in the summer... and yeah, I think that's probably true to a degree... you just, when you have a large group of people, you certainly - you know, it draws a mixed crowd.

JC:  Yeah.  It's gotta be one out of however many people is a bad person, you know?

TJ:  John, you think something happened with that festival, huh.  That maybe someone saw her at the festival?

JC:  Honestly, at the time I did, but maybe it had nothing to do with it.  Maybe this person had been monitor-... or, or, you know - if - if she was taken, maybe this person had been watching for a long time.  I mean, they had to have known that she was going to be home alone, they had to have known, um, you know, when she was going to be home alone, and when I was going to leave, or, or what have you.  

Note "honestly" as a signal that he may not have been "honest" in the interview, and what he is going to say, he really wants believed.  What is it that he really wants believed? The "person".
Note "this" shows closeness
Note "person" is gender neutral.  Would he think a female did this?  Not likely.  Using gender neutral is more likely related to wanting to hide the gender of the guilty.  
Note "if she was taken" contradicts the "no idea"
Note that having "no idea" is also debunked by the repetitive (sensitive) "they had to have known"

This gives the appearance of a deliberate tangent. 

SS:  Yeah.  And you said you last saw her maybe 11, 11:30 Saturday and she was tired, she's going to go to bed -

JC:  Mmhmm.

SS:  Did the bed look like it was slept in at all, when you went over?

JC:  Yeah, I mean - she doesn't typically make her bed, so it was just - it always looks a little messy.

SS:  Eh, who does.  Yeah.  So she may have - so, all right, something obviously happened - if she had slept in the bed - something - someone may have knocked at the door, she may have gone somewhere, um -

JC:  Yeah.

SS:  And this is just such an interesting - obviously in a sad way, but very interesting circumstances in how, how she disappeared.  Uh, Fairfield police, how've they been working with?

JC:  Um, the Fairfield police have actually been pretty good.  Um, they, they've - they're getting less sleep than I am, I feel like.  Um, they, you know, I - they called me at 10 o'clock last night to come in and help them out, and I'm just, I'm willing to do whatever I can, and give them whatever I can to, to help them.  Um, they've been really great, they've brought in other investigators, um, federal investigators even, and it's just been - they've been really helpful.

Note complimentary attitude towards Fairfield police uses the word "actually", indicating that he is comparing them to something else. 
He is sleeping better than police. 
Note the unnecessary "I'm willing to do whatever I can" with "whatever" repeated, making his cooperation to police something sensitive to him. 
Note "whatever I "can" indicates limitation. He is limited in what he can give them. 

Please note:  He is praising police and federal investigators while they are unsuccessful.  This is not expected. 

TJ:  John, have they questioned anybody else besides yourself?

JC:  Yeah.  Um, they've actually called all known associates, um, as far as I know, um.  I have a lot of support from  friends and family, and they've been coming over and telling me that the police called them, the police called them, and so on - 

Note that he has a lot of support from "friends and family" but not from the police, who are "losing sleep"
This is an uncomfortable part for him, as he is admitting here that police have been asking questions about his background, personality, etc, of his friends, who are calling him and telling him that the police are asking about him.  This is completely lost on the interviewer who could have asked him what they were asking his friends but did not: 

SS:  Right.  And they're talking to neighbors, because you said she lives in an apartment, so everyone there has been questioned when they did their canvassing through the neighborhood too, and - and as far that concern - they have not ruled - they haven't basically ruled anyone out as a suspect, I'm assuming.

JC:  No, not at all.

SS:  Now did they tell you that while you are not being considered as a suspect, you haven't been ruled out?  Because you were the last one to see her.

JC:  Yeah.  I mean yeah, yeah.  I mean, and I - I - when I - even before - like, as soon as I - I don't know. As soon as the police were involved, I knew that I was going to be considered a suspect.  It's always going to be, you know, the, the last person to see her, and/or the closest person to her.  So, I mean, I'm the one who sees her every day.  I mean, you can't just rule out anybody, you know?

Note the stuttering "I" indicating tension and anxiety.  Note the stutters are close together on the one word in which a non-stuttering person should have no trouble with, since it is used by us, millions of times.  

Is he the last person to see her?  What about the kidnapper?, the "person"?

SS:  Right.  On that note, John, because we've seen cases like this, um - do you have an attorney?  Did you decide to get a lawyer?

JC:  Um, I don't need a lawyer, because I did not do anything. 

Please note that this is a very sensitive statement.  Here, he explains why he does not need a lawyer, but is not able to bring himself to say he did not "do it"; only that he did not do "anything", which is vague. 

TJ:  Good for you, John.  Good for you.  You've got nothing to hide, right?

SS:  And I'm not insin- John, I'm not, believe me, I'm not insinuating you are, but I'm just saying that -

In spite of the two hosts tripping on each other, here is another place for Carter to say "I didn't cause Katelyn's disappearance", using her name, his own pronoun, "I" (without stuttering) and specifically address her disappearance. 

JC:  Oh, no no no, I - and I understand that.  But I had a lot of family members come to me and say, "You should get a lawyer, you should get a lawyer," and I'm like, "No, there's no reason for me to, I didn't do anything."

Note the repeated "no", as well as the "I", stuttered with the word "and"
Note that he only repeats his unreliable denial; quoting himself with "I'm like..." rather than issuing a reliable denial. 

TJ:  Good for you.  John, I appreciate your courage doing something like that and coming on these airwaves, I mean, it's, uh -

JC:  Yeah, I'm just trying to do everything I can to make sure that Katelyn's name gets out there, and that more people hear her name and see her face, and so on.

Note the lack of stuttering "I"
Note everything "I can" indicates limitation.  Would you feel "limited"?  What limits him?  Time?  Ability? Consequence?

SS:  Sure.  We're as you know a pretty big radio station, we've got a lot of people listening.  And John, I just want to pass out, to pass on the, you know, if you were at the festival last weekend, if you're in Fairfield or in that neighborhood, go online to our website at, take a good look at Katelyn's picture, maybe you saw her, maybe you - you know, help police, help them fill in the blanks.  And if you know anything whatsoever, just give Fairfield police a call, and I'm sure that information will come in a lot, uh, very helpful.

TJ:  And John, I'd keep trying that cellphone.

JC:  Yeah, I, I, I will.  And I also wanted to announce that um, tonight at uh, 7 pm we're going to do a vigil, um, and, and, uh, and it's going to be at Fairfield West Baptist Church on Muskopf Road, and anyone's invited.  At 7 pm.

The stuttering "I" is repeated and it is heavy, indicating acute anxiety for Carter. 

SS:  Okay, Fairfield Baptist.  Got it.  We'll pass that on too.  Hey John, I really appreciate you coming on, though it's difficult under these circumstances and our thoughts and prayers are with you.  If you need anything or need to get some info out, I know you've got Pauly's number here, our producer, and we'll get you right on, buddy. 

JC:  Yeah, thank you very much.

SS:  Give our best to the family too.  We're thinking of them.

TJ:  Thanks John.

JC:  Thank you.

SS:  All right, there you go.

TJ:  It's tough.

SS:  All right, you heard John Carter the fiance of Katelyn Markham, she's been missing for 6 days now out of Fairfield. And as far as what may have happened, there's a lot of speculation out there - you know, when a woman disappears, oranyone disappears, but a woman - she leaves behind her keys, she leaves behind her purse - 

TJ:  That's foul play right there.

SS:  The only thing she had with her was her cellphone and she's not answering that right now, and simply walks away or disappears from a life that everyone around her seemed - uh, where she seemed to be happy, comfortable, and very pragmatic - clearly something's going on here that doesn't add up to someone maybe just leaving; or, maybe it does.

note that the interviewer uses the present tense, but did not catch John Carter's past tense references. 


Anonymous said...

I have not finished reading this article Peter, or the one detailing the 911 call, but I have believed from the early stages that John Carter had something evil to do with Katelyn's disappearance, and as now revealed, her death, just as I suspected he did.

Incidental to John Carters' remarks that put Katelyn in the past tense, which you carefully pointed out at the time; it stuck me as way too coincidential that he would have been out burning Katelyns' old bank statements and prior school records, etc., when the girl was only 21+ years old. How many records could a young girl collect in her short life span? Not very many! Burn a few bank statements that couldn't have been more than 3-4 years old, all total, when most people save their bank records for at least seven years and other pertinent records in case of an IRS audit?

I think the IRS time limit has been reduced recently for keeping personal records, but I do know it was seven years previously, and for those in certain types of businesses it is still seven years. So what the HELL was John Carter burning! It HAD to be more than Katelyns' old records.

Simply, due to your earlier analysis of John Carters' statements and what he claims were his actons that evening and night, I have always suspected that this low-life POS is the one who killed and disposed of Katelyn. She was a high acheiver, something he could have never been; sooo out of his league.

But why or how Tim Miller and Texas Equisearch (God bless them), wound up looking in a creek bed area in Indiana is a mystery to me, as this area is not anywhere close to Fairfield or Cincinnati. I wonder what evidence led them way up there?

Anon 1

ACH said...

JC: Well, uh, we weren't going to get married until way after we "moved out".

Could "moved out" be leaking of information ? That seems a strange way of expressing thoughts about moving out of state. He should have said "moving out of state", instead of "moving out".

I believe there was ongoing tension about her busy schedule, leaving not enough time for her to give him the amount attention he felt he deserved, or there was tension about moving away, or the brother's pending visit. Whatever it was ended up in her asking him to "move out'. Then possibly escalating into violence.


S + K Mum said...

I've always felt that JC killed Katelyn because she was too busy to spend as much time with him as he wanted. He constantly says she was busy, she was tired. I suspect she cancelled (not postponed) the wedding because he was needy and jealous.

He showed up wanting to go to the festival and she was too tired. Last straw for him?

RIP Katelyn. I'm happy that she has been found and her family can lay her to rest. Then hopefully justice will be served!

VLW said...

Hi, Anonymous 8:18--
This news link says her body was found by "people looking for aluminum cans". I don't believe Tim Miller or Texas Equisearch was in any way involved in the recovery of the remains.

VLW said...

Me again-- Anonymous 8:18, I see in this article Texas Equusearch is mentioned, but it doesn't say they were the ones who actually found the remains.

mountain mama said...

Markham’s fiance, John Carter, told the Enquirer this morning that he felt “like I’m ripped in half.”

But Carter said he did not want to talk to reporters anymore because he no longer had a reason to do so.

“She is found,” he said.

Tania Cadogan said...

I, I couldn't tell you.

Why can't he tell us what happened or what he thinks happened?

But Carter said he did not want to talk to reporters anymore because he no longer had a reason to do so.

“She is found,” he said.

Does he not wan to know what happened to her? how she got where she was?

If he believes she din't leave of her own volition then surely he should be now out talking to media asking the public if they saw any cars in the area she was found, if they have any info etc?

Does he not want justice for Katelyn or is he fearful that justice for Katelyn will reveal his guilt?

Anonymous said...

If Tim Miller's group, Equusearch, were not at the lake in Indiana serching for Katelyn, what were they doing there?

Tim does not waste his efforts, his searches for missing persons are very costly and are made only with the cooperation and approval of LE authorities.

Tim Miller and Equusearch do not search for tin cans.

Anon 1

Unknown said...

Metal "scrappers" found the remains according to news report. I just checked this site tonight. I haven't seen any other reference to TES except in the comments here. They did search for Katelyn back in 2011, and since then they formed an Ohio chapter of TES. I'm not saying they weren't involved as some sort of secret government conspiracy involving the press, however. Ugh....double negative.

mountain mama said...

The bones were scattered around a tree about 30 yards from the west bank of Big Cedar Creek. A skull wrapped in clumps of a woman’s brown hair was concealed in a black plastic sack, the kind you find at the local grocery store.

“They’ve collected a lot of stuff from the area, but a lot of it may not pertain to this case because it was kind of like a dumping site. There was all kinds of junk in the area – cans and junk, litter,” said state police spokesman Sgt. Noel Houze.

He said he thinks whoever placed Markham there knew the area. Detectives are still trying to figure out where Markham died. Was it there by the creek? Or was Markham dumped there after she died somewhere else?

mountain mama said...

Once questioned by police in Katelyn Markham’s disappearance, her fiance, John Carter, only said, “Life sucks” before refusing an interview with WKRC-TV.

Carter, who some believe played a part in the disappearance, did not speak to the media Thursday. His mother, Karyn Winkler, told the Hamilton Journal-News her son was “in shock.”
“This is not what he was expecting,” Winkler said. “He, too, was having hope we would see her one day. And he is not capable of even talking about it right now.”

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