Friday, April 12, 2013

Philadelphia House of Horrors

This morning, I asked a mother I know if I could hold her child, who is 15 months old and knows me.  When she gave consent, I leaned over to him so he could see my face, and upon recognizing me, he leaned out of his stroller, arms raised, hands opening and closing in excitement,  and I lifted him to me.

He promptly buried his face in my neck and made a cooing sound.

For that moment, I was in heaven, and longed, once again, for the time when my children were babies.

Be warned of the graphic description that follows.  Skip it if you don't have the stomach for these horrific crimes against those incapable of defending themselves.


Former worker testifies that Dr. Kermit Gosnell snipped the spines of moving babies following abortions at Philadelphia clinic

Ashley Baldwin said she saw babies moving on five occasions after the procedures. The doctor is charged with seven counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of babies and one count of third-degree murder in the death of an abortion patient.

The Women's Medical Society in Philadelphia. Ex-worker Ashley Baldwin testified that she witnessed an aborted baby screeching.

MATT ROURKE/AP

The Women's Medical Society in Philadelphia. Ex-worker Ashley Baldwin testified that she witnessed an aborted baby screeching. 

Horror found an address in west Philadelphia.
The gruesome testimony at the “House of Horrors” murder trial of abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell continued on Thursday, with two former employees describing scenes that strained the imagination.
Ashley Baldwin, who began working at the cash-only Women’s Medical Society clinic in west Philadelphia when she was just 15, said that she routinely assisted Gosnell with abortions and, on five different occasions, saw babies moving following the procedure.
In one case, Baldwin, who is now 22 and the mother of her own toddler, testified that she witnessed an aborted baby “screeching,” the Philadelphia Inquirer reported.
"They looked just like regular babies," Baldwin said to Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore.
When asked about a fetus described in court as “Baby A,” who the prosecution contends was older than 24 weeks, the legal limit for abortions in the state, Baldwin recalled the especially large baby following the procedure.
Dr. Kermit Gosnell also faces federal charges that he distributed painkillers to drug dealers out of his Philadelphia office. 

PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPT. VIA AP

Dr. Kermit Gosnell also faces federal charges that he distributed painkillers to drug dealers out of his Philadelphia office. 

"The chest was moving," she testified Thursday.
Gosnell, who is charged with eight counts of murder, trained his employees to cut the necks of the aborted babies to sever their spinal cords, both Baldwin and Lynda Williams, another former employee, testified on Wednesday.
Williams, who has already pleaded guilty to third-degree murder, testified that she saw her former boss snip the necks of more than 30 babies.
John McMahon, Gosnell’s attorney, has argued that his client did not kill any infants by snipping their spines and that they were already in the death throes because of the abortion drugs he had given them.
Gosnell is charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of seven babies, as well as third-degree murder in the death of a Virginia woman undergoing an abortion at Women’s Medical Society clinic.
In addition, Gosnell, who prosecutors say made millions of dollars over the years from his business, will face federal charges that he illegally distributed painkillers to drug dealers and addicts out of his west Philadelphia office.
If convicted of the murder charges, Gosnell faces the death penalty. Williams could be sentenced to up to 100 years in prison. Baldwin has not been charged with a crime.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/abortion-doc-snipped-moving-babies-spines-witness-article-1.1314193#ixzz2QGiJ0RFZ

46 comments:

Anita said...

Ungodly. I can't bear to read about it.

Trigger said...

This makes me angry.

I know that there are doctors who can do this kind of thing, but there needs to be some kind of limits.

This is cruel and inhuman.


Anonymous said...

There is a special place in hell for someone like this. I refuse to refer to him as "doctor". He is a disgrace to the profession.

elf said...

24 weeks? Isn't that 6 months? Good grief. They deserve to be convicted. I'm pro choice and believe that its a woman's right to choose but at week 4 you should know which option your going to pick (keep the baby, adopt it out or terminate). Abortion at 24 weeks sounds like murder all the way around. At 24 weeks the baby is already formed. It moves around. Jmo.

Apple said...

This article is sure to bring angry posts.

To me, it is no different than other forms of abortion. Killing is killing, whether or not you can visualize it, whether inside or outside the womb.

ME said...

That's the cruelest thing I've read in a while.r.I.p.innocent little souls xx

Anonymous said...

Sadly a lot of parents of "missing" kids probably aborted their babies... I can think of a few choice names..KC,BD,DB,JD... sick and sad

Hobnob said...

This wll bring angry posts from both sides.

What i do know is both sides will magnify what the the other side did and minimise what their own side did.

What is certain is there will be no winners.

It will end up as a political weapon with neithr side giving an inch and neither side actually pausing to think what about the mothers in all this?

We will never the full truth of what happened here, we will see blame, we will see excuses, we will see deception, we will see truth, we will see justice based not on the facts, instead we will see justice based on religion, personal belief, personal experience and a myriad of other things.
Will justice be done?
I don't know.

Can someone who believes abortion is wrong for any reason put aside their bias to listen only to the facts of the case?

Can someone who believes abortion is allowed in certain cases put aside their bias to listen only to the facts of the case?

Can someone who believes in abortion for any reason as it is the woman's right to choose put aside their bias to listen only to the facts of the case?

I don't think so, there is no grey area in such a sensitive subject, you are either pro life or pro abortion there is no middle.

Modern medicine has progressed that premie babies who under current laws could be aborted can be saved, little mention though is made of the lifelong health problems of the baby, the costs from the birth through to their death.

A lucky few will have a baby that has few if any health problems, the vast majority have health problems that will last a lifetime.

We don't know as yet if premie babies who have few to no health problem will go on to have healthy children or need IVF.

One needs to ask if perhaps we are interfering with nature too far when we save a baby that would normally die, either from disabilities in utero or because it was born too soon.

With changes in law if a woman has a miscarriage anytime up to birth or has a still born child, will they be charged with murder because the pregnancy didn't result in a live birth?
This is the way it is heading, where does the line get drawn?

Abortions are not pleasant, the earlier the better for the health of the mom.
Sometimes though the choice is taken out her hands, a deformity is detected that would mean the child may die in utero or maybe live a couple of hours, the mom's health becomes so endangered that abortion is the only way to save her life.
this could be by accident, by design or asimply a pregnancy complication such as pre eclampsia which can be fatal.
Do we refuse an abortion and have both mom and baby die, or do we allow abortion to save the mom's life and maybe she can have children at another time.

Hobnob said...

See, abortion isn't black and white, what if it was yo or a loved one in the situation of needing an abortion?
Would you love and support them regardless, or would you call her murderer and scorn her?

If the stories of how the foetuses died is true then there must be punishment,the problem is was it murder due to the neck snipping or was the foetus dying already from the procedure and thus the neck snip was a mercy?

The tale of the baby born with no eyes or mouth screeching does not ring true, it would likely not have gotten much air into it's lungs via it's nose, if it was missing those organs what else was missing?
How would it have survived outside the womb so profoundly deformed and disabled.

Late term abortions are sadly sometimes needed, in such cases, both mom and foetus should be anaesthatized, the school is still out as to whether, in utero, foetuses can feel pain and if they recognise it as pain or if pain is a learned sensation.
We may learn how the brain works as a foetus grows and develops, we still don't know how it works as fully developed adults.

Who knows what changes we will see in the coming years, in the meantime try not to buy into all the emotionalism, the hype, look only at the known facts, you may find that deep inside you can see the reasoning of the other side and perhaps in time come to a middleground.

Jo said...

Cash only means no records. I am sure he was performing abortion well after the legal 24 weeks. He was taking cash to rid these mothers of unwanted babies after delivery.
And hiring 15 year old to work for him - another issue! Who would allow their 15 year old to witness abortions and work at this clinic?

ME said...

Regarding agreeing or not I 100% disagree with any life ANY LIFE getting ripped from her/his mothers womb and having her/his spine sliced through,good points hobnob as always !

Eliza said...

Personally, I am pro-life and I agree with abortions in certain cases (eg rape). That said, I would not blame a woman (a loved-one perhaps as Hobnob says) who needs to perform an abortion, I just don't agree with it.

I couldn't read the whole article. The "doctor" is a monster. I know babies born at 24 weeks who survived and are now 19, studying and happy. What he did is murder. Just my opinion.

BostonLady said...

This is horrific. Just reading this made me feel sick. This murderer has no regard for life. I equate this with a hitman. He took cash to carry out a death sentence.

They are only bringing him up on 8 charges of murder. My guess is he has done many more and it is heart breaking.

Anonymous said...

It's a woman's right to choose NOT allow a man's sperm to enter her womb. NOT TO MURDER A CHILD. There are ways to prevent pregnancy.I am not speaking of rape. Abstinence is one. Birth control is another. And permanently getting fixed is the best. I had 3 children. I knew it was all I wanted. I got my tubes tied. Cry me a river for goodness sake. I'm pro if there's a heartbeat it's alive.

anon 77 said...

Hobs, as always, I love your pots.
Not this one.
Again, I'll say that we shouldn't kill kids in utero just because they might have a disability. We shouldn't just let them die as they exit the womb early because they might have learning disabilities. We don't kill people who are diagnosed with cancer because it's too expensive. We don't kill people who are old because they're so expensive to pay for.

Jen said...

Wow, where to start...

I am currently 17 weeks pregnant with my second baby. I had an ultrasound a few weeks ago, and at 12wks and 2days my baby could be seen moving, wiggling, and the tech even snapped some great shots of it's little hand up by it's face (don't know the sex yet). In just the last week or two, I started to feel the first flutters and nudges of my growing baby, but even before I could feel this, my baby was very much alive and active. At only six weeks a my baby's heart was formed and beating.

This 'doctor' and his assistants sicken me. They are performing a murderous act against a pre-born human being. 'Late term' or 'partial birth' abortion is a barbaric procedure, which has no place in civilized society.

Jen said...

To be fair...

When I was younger, (before I had experienced pregnancy) I took the position that an early abortion at 4-6wks was a 'woman's choice'. Although, I would not have chosen it, I felt others should have the right to do so.

However...

Now that I am older, I believe the 'choice' to be made, comes long before a human life hangs in the balance. Having sex isn't essential to survival, it's not like breathing or eating...acts we must perform to sustain our life. Sex is optional, and in many cases recreational...so NO, you don't get a pass from me for murdering your unwanted child because you didn't have the will power to keep your legs closed.

As far as situations of rape or incest...a baby was conceived, and the embryo is no less human or sacred than one that was planned and conceived between a husband and wife. There is someone in the world who would love the baby regardless of the negative event behind it's conception.

Before I had my first son, I struggled for 6 years to get pregnant. During that time I would have taken in any desperate women, regardless of her situation, and fed, clothed and cared for her until her unwanted baby was born, then gladly adopted it, regardless of what illness or complications the innocent baby may have faced. I'm sure that there are millions of childless couples who feel the same way.

So again NO, you don't get a pass for murder because your situation is less than ideal, or because you can convince yourself that your 'helping' the baby, by saving it a lifetime of complications. You wouldn't walk up to a person with downs syndrome or another mental handicap and cut their spine to save them all the struggles they may face in life, would you? Likely not.

Abortion is an ugly thing, no matter the circumstances or the supposed justification. I know two of my friends have had abortions, and they have never expressed anything but regret. However abortion will persist... As long as there's money to be made, and people feel justified in putting their immediate desires ahead of the sanctity of life.

Like anything, it's a slippery slope, so take a look at China if you want to know how bad it could get, if eliminating nuisance babies isn't kept in check.

Anonymous said...

Killing babies has now become a form of birth control.

How difficult is it to keep from getting pregnant in the first place?

I understand there are extenuating circumstances to this argument. HOWEVER, th

Anonymous said...

Sorry . . .I was interrupted . . .

I understand that there are extenuating circumstances to this argument, however, this quack of a doctor will milk the extenuating circumstances for all it's worth.

Layla said...

This guy deserves the death penalty. His behavior, murdering innocent babies who had managed to survive his first attempts at murder, in a barbaric, heartless, cruel and painful way, should have absolutely earned him the death penalty. Maybe they can do the first electric chair attempt and make it so it doesn't quite succeed. What a scumbag. Sadistic. Sociopathic, scumbag.

Layla said...

Hobnob--why would pain be a "learned" sensation?
How do you think babies even kick in the womb if their brains, spinal cords, nervous systems are not operating and they are not able to feel pain.
If a person's legs are "numb" as in they can't feel pain they also would not be able to walk or even move their legs. Babies in the womb start kicking very early. It just makes absolutely no sense to even entertain the thought they would have motion but no nerve sensation (pain).

Layla said...

Hobnob--I will answer your question--I believe anyone having an abortion past 24 weeks should be charged with murder. Otherwise why was that one of Scott Peterson's charges was for the murder of his unborn son?
Nothing Gosnell did was merciful to these babies. He is a sadistic killer. Big Difference. I have no tolerance for people like him who pick on the most defenseless. And I hope he gets the death penalty.

Layla said...

Hobnob--You are coming from a very uninformed place talking about preemies and I don't even understand some of what you are saying like will they grow up to need IVF???

My son was a 28 weeker, he is very healthy, scores high genius on some sections of the IQ test the school gave him, he gets straight A's, and I am told often how kind and respectful he is. He was born 2 lbs. 9 oz. and is almost taller than me at age 12. I am 5 foot 8 inches.
Just trying to give an idea of the way an early preemie turns out. Some are born earlier than he was, sure, and I know some, they may be a bit shorter, but are intelligent, happy, full of joy. SOME who are VERY early have serious problems, but science advances so much each day, this is getting more and more to be the exception.

Anonymous said...

As someone who had an abortion when she was young, I can tell you it haunts you the rest of your life. There are no words to describe how I feel about it today. It ruined my life and took away my freedom and lightness of heart. I cannot look in the mirror without thinking about it. Can we legislate it and tell women they are free "to choose?" I don't know, but I know we cannot take away the truth about what it is, and what it does to your soul. I salvage the pieces of my life every day, because I have to. Living with what I did is my penance. All I can do is pray God has mercy upon me, even though I know I do not deserve it. Why can we call it everything but what it is, a supreme act of selfishness? Sure, my parents would have been angry at me for having a baby. But you know what? They would have gotten over it, and they would have grown in all the ways we are supposed to grow, namely in love, humility, and forgiveness. I never gave them that chance. I protected myself instead of protecting my baby. I trusted in this world and in others instead of trusting in God.

Lemon said...

Jen-
Congratulations. :)

To anon@5:42 - your post is sober minded and thought provoking. I'm sorry for all you have gone through. You remind us that the "freedom to choose" does not include freedom in choosing the consequences of our actions. Thank you for sharing your story. I wish you better days ahead.
sincerely,
Lemon

Apple said...

Anonymous 5:42,
I am sorry for the pain you have felt. I am humbled by your kindhearted post.

Apple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hobnob said...

it is interesting to see how many read the posts yet don't read them.

Although the number of preemies surving has improved over the years, the medical problems that can come from a premature birth have not increased.
Babies born before 37 weeks are premature, the longer they have to gestate, the better,a baby born at 28 weeks has a lot more developmentally than one born at 24 weeks and the 24 weeker is more developed than a 21 week.
Some parents are lucky and their child turns out healthy, others are not so lucky and they face a lifetime of 24 hr caring for their offspring until the day they die, the child dies or they hand over care to a hospital/care home.

We may be able to keep extreme preemies alive, however since they have not developed fully in the womb there is the high probability of health problems caused by underdeveloped lungs, eye problems, mental disability and so on.

It may be possible in decades to come that such preemies would end up in an artificial womb and then allowed to continue development untill they reach 40 weeks, heck it could be that all babies will be IVF and then allowed to grow in artificial wombs.

Hobnob said...

Hugs Jen and Anon xx

Jen said...

Thanks Lemon & Hobs...

Also, thank you anon 5:42 for sharing something so painful and personal. It's easy for someone like me to take up a position against abortion when I have never been faced with the prospect...I am humbled by your honesty and courage.

If only every young woman considering abortion could speak to someone who's been thru it, I feel that few less would go thru with it. Like I mentioned before, I have two friends who had abortions in their late teens/ early twenties, and they both make similar statements about the pain and guilt they feel EVERYDAY, although their intention was to walk out of the procedure and never think of it again.

Layla said...

Anon @ 5:42--You sound to me like one of the most honest and compassionate people. You sound like a true and good person with a pure heart. I am sorry for your loss and how this haunts you. I hope that you will find peace, because God forgives you. We've all made mistakes in this life. Most people don't have the courage you do to admit they regret something deeply. I admire that.

Excruciating Headache said...

I support a woman's right to choose for any reason until viability. Arbitrary cut-offs should end since gestational age isn't the only factor influencing a baby's chances for survival. Some conditions that are incompatible with life aren't picked up until late in the second trimester. No one should have to carry a baby to term if it isn't going to live.

Some people will regret their decision to terminate. Others will regret their decision to become parents. I don't think politicians should be involved, regardless. We are grown women and more than capable dealing with the consequences of our actions.

Gosnell took advantage of people in desperate situations and murdered live infants. I am not a fan of the death penalty, but it seems justified in this case. Too bad the staff who were complicit aren't subject to it as well.

elf said...

That dude doesn't even look like a Dr:/

Layla said...

R.I.P your little angel x

JerseyJane said...

There are so many quack doctor offices, some set up in neighborhoods. Philadelphia is known for an easy place to acquire painkillers and especially all different forms of diet pills(uppers). Many drug addicts, mentally-ill, and alcoholics go to these small dr. offices. They are in and out of there in 15 mins. The addict patients lie about meds they are taking, their medical history, and little questions are asked of the patient. They do as little as take their blood pressure, pay cash for their month or 3 month supply and out the door. Most are on SSID(disability) and pay with that(cash).I know a woman(mentally-ill) that would pay people a hundred bucks to take her into Philly to go to these doctors. She would go to three drs. in one day. Her family tried desparately to communicate with these drs. Telling them their daughter was mentally-ill and to not accept her as a patient.the daughter still would acquire the meds. Some listened when family members finally threatened the office of said dr. call police. I do know the FBI did come to the parents home to interview the daughter and family about a certain dr. Later the family sees in the newspaper of the office shut down and charges against the doctor...
You would think the patients were getting a soft pretzel or water ice, that's how quick they go in and out of these places...no to be funny, but it's true... Never under-estimate the detrimination of the addict or the dr. for that matter, both receiving what they want. Alot of these drs. are older it seems. Alot of these addicts get there infomation to these offices when they go to AA meetings, non-profit mental health centers, and other places people with those issues congregate. Sad, disgusting but true. Alot of people that do drugs do other forms to keep them going, and top it off with alcohol or those " rockstar" caffeine energy crap drinks.

Back in the 1980's there were alot of those backdoor butchershops, like this dr, it's all about the money. He has been doing it for so long, and in the poorest of all areas. There is bad in every profession, it's ashame, much respect is lost when you run into the knowledge of these sickos and you think of the oath they take with their schooling and license.

Fern said...

Hobs says:

Can someone who believes abortion is wrong for any reason put aside their bias to listen only to the facts of the case?

Can someone who believes abortion is allowed in certain cases put aside their bias to listen only to the facts of the case?

Can someone who believes in abortion for any reason as it is the woman's right to choose put aside their bias to listen only to the facts of the case?

I don't think so, there is no grey area in such a sensitive subject, you are either pro life or pro abortion there is no middle.
_____________________

Excellent post. This will always be a hot-button issue.

I'm pro-choice. Perhaps I will burn in hell for my position. That matter is between me and my maker.

bigmtn said...

I am sick. I am pro choice.

I MISS MY BABIES.

If my daughters found themselves pregnant and conflicted, I would advocate for adoption.

The world can be so cruel and awful.

bigmtn said...

Oh Peter of all the horrors I have read here over the years...this story has tears streaming down my face. All that I can think of is what a horrible way to come into the world. My heart breaks. Little souls.

Layla said...

Excruciating Headache--So, right up until viability huh? I understand 3 mos. and under but seriously I feel strongly about this. My son was 2 lbs. 9 oz. He didnt likw how the nasal canula felt on Day 1, made a face and reached up and yanked it out.
Plus, I have a friend--she is haunted by nightmares like every night 15 yrs later from her abortion. I gave anotger friend advice not to have an abortion bc I had seen what had happened to this other friend. It's like PTSD. It's taking way too much of a gamble how it's going to effect someone psychologically. The abortion industry knows this--they're destroying women's peace of mind left and right. That's wrong. They're chewing these women up and spitting them out. My friend might has well have been in some. WW 2 battle from the nightmares that still plague her.

Anonymous said...

It is like PTSD. They catch these girls when they are young and searching for their independence. Where do kids who are not grown up yet and have no root in faith go to search for their independence? To their culture. Their parents tell them no, you can't do that, and their culture tells them, sure, do it, it's OK. They just transfer their dependency. What you want changes in life. What you believe changes. They cannot predict who these young ladies will turn into someday. It's a big deal. It is not a visit to the chiropractor, but that is how it is treated. You cannot undo an abortion. It's an extreme action and an extreme decision. Extreme decisions are risky for the maker. If you really care about these young women, you would not be so concerned about their "rights" and be more concerned about their fates.

Even if you are pro choice, you should advocate for the young women to be shown the underside of the coin. But no, that might make them feel shame or guilt. So you just defer their shame and guilt until later, because as a woman matures, it will more often than not come.

To one commenter above, who do you know that regrets having their children? I don't know anyone who does with the exception of the psychopaths we read about on these pages. Is this a hypothetical you are speaking of? What decent human being would look at their child and say, I take it back, I wish you weren't here?

These young women need options and support, perhaps intermediaries with their families. Parents need eduation about how to deal with an unwed pregnant young daughter. The young women need to see pictures of what an abortion really is. They are too young to understand what they are doing. I was too young to understand what I did.

Some young women even into their twenties are still very immature emotionally and dependent upon their parents.

Jen said...

Good Lord...I just read the side box of the article where it says that the doctor applied anesthesia to the women based on how much they could pay! Nothing could be more monstrous than the method he employed to kill the babies, but also forcing the women to suffer and be conscious during a surgical procedure is the stuff of nightmares!

That also removes any notion or argument that this 'doctor' was performing these abortions to mercifully 'provide a necessary service' to women in need, or performing procedures for the good of the mothers health and well-being. I didn't think I could be more disgusted with this guy, but I was wrong...

Lis said...

This man had been carrying on these practices for years and no one tattled on him in all that time and apparently no one ever inspected the place until he caused a woman's death. I wonder how many abortion clinics are about the same as this one. I have heard stories. I have known women who have gone through horrors. I lost someone dear to me because she could not live with herself after having a saline abortion at 6 months. The limit of abortion to the first trimester is of no affect because it is excluded in the case of threat to the mother's health- which includes her mental health. So exceptions are made every day. No one wants to see what goes on in these places, no one wants to hear from the women who have been traumatized by the experience. No one cares, the sacred right to abortion must be protected above all else.

The concept of abortion as a solution is a lie- it causes far deeper problems than the one it purports to solve.

Many reading this story in the news have been pointing out the hypocrisy of our laws:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Ocean-Shores-father-charged-with-murder-in-infants-death-202428871.html

One day it is legal and a "right", the next day it is murder.

Lis said...

Anon at 5:42, your post made me cry. I'm so sorry for what you have gone through. I can tell you of 2 women close to me who have told me the same things. I've known others as acquaintances who have, also. They all say they had no idea what it was going to be like until after they had done it, and if they had only known, they would never have gone through with it.

You wrote, " All I can do is pray God has mercy upon me, even though I know I do not deserve it." Anon, none of us deserves God's mercy, this is why Christ took our sins on himself and paid the price for us. He gives mercy because He loves to give mercy to any who ask for it. God is love.

I have just been memorizing Psalm 103 and I highly recommend it- it is so comforting!

Hugs to you.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the psalm. I love the psalms. Thank you all for your kindness.

JenC said...

Hobnob, as much as I usually appreciate your comments, this time I'm left shaking my head. Arguments such as yours, full of emotion and excuses, are the reason that some European countries (Belgium) are now looking at legislation that will allow parents to euthinize their children (doesn't give an age limit, but it's definitely AFTER birth) for reasons of disability/deformity. This is not just in cases where a child is suffering from a terminal illness, but for parents who give birth to a deformed/disabled child that would not have a "good quality of life" or would be a "burden" to care for. Arguments like yours seek to deny or minimize the humanity of the "fetus." Dehumanize them, and it's easier to kill them. (Germany and Jews ring a bell?) The utter absurdity of this trial is that babies of the same gestational age can be killed legally inside the womb in many states. If abortion is ok, then in the end, you have to accept infanticide, too. The most hardcore pro-choice people who follow the logic (actual logic, not just what makes sense) like Mary Anne Warren and Peter Singer will admit this conclusion, although most pro-choicers rely on emotional arguments while ignoring science, facts, logic, etc. Many have just had the word "choice" drilled into their heads and have consumed the kool-aid. I would have thought, based on so many of your other posts, that you wouldn't have been one to rely simply on emotional arguments lacking in substance. In this case, Gosnell wasn't skilled enough to kill the babies while still inside the womb - when many would have been perfectly legal even in his state.

JenC said...

LOL - oh yeah, I'm evil because I think abortion is murder. There is something off about that perception.