Sunday, April 14, 2013

The Selling of the Hailey Dunn Case

Not marketable
Both Shawn Adkins and Billie Dunn will be in need of attorneys in what may be the immediate future. It has been almost a month since the remains in Scurry County were discovered and the delay, itself, suggests more than just a DNA waiting list; it suggests that those who's charge it is to preserve the integrity of the investigation are doing just that:  allowing the remains to "speak" to them.

There is also multiple DNA testing to be done, with at least three individuals' DNA targeted by the investigators; the victim, the mother's and the boyfriend's, and, perhaps, one eye open for the possibility that the boyfriend had physical assistance in moving the body, outside the intellectual guidance provided by the mother.

With both mother and boyfriend in need of attorneys and likely, an immediate need of bail money, what can be done in this scenario?

If the remains are Hailey's, and if Billie Jean Dunn, mother, and her boyfriend, Shawn Adkins are arrested (they are only "Persons of Interest" as of this writing), let's move forward from there, with a possible scenario:

1.  Arrest warrants are sworn out and executed against, first, Billie Dunn.
2.  The second is delayed, as Adkins is not currently in the State of Texas, but is successfully executed.
3.  Arraignment and Bail is set for each.
4.  An attorney known in the small part of Texas steps forward to be Dunn's attorney while Adkins claims that he has no ability to pay for an attorney and is given a public defender.

We now come to the first question:

Who pays the bail?

This, of course, assumes there is bail conditions, but let's proceed with it, as is.  Not being familiar with bail in Texas (nor bail in Maine), I can guess that it would not be low, and that 10% of it would be put up in cash, or equity.  In any and all cases, it won't be cheap.

Does John Young, for instance, roll the dice and put up Dunn's bail?

For some, this might seem like a no-brainer since she's not a flight risk, but consider the following since attorneys like Young make their living on their reputations:

a.  Young's professional courtesy, like his standing in the legal community, is not what it once was. With the original manslaughter accusation behind him, his instability was evident when he was, in the words of law enforcement "on something" when he pulled a gun on police and lived to speak about it.  If he hopes to cash in on this case, he will have to exercise some level of self-control.  Rumored to have been  addicted to cocaine, self control and cocaine are not known to associate closely.  He may be clean from substance abuse, and, perhaps, on a short leash with the bar, pointing a gun at a law enforcement officer is to touch a bond that law enforcement is very jealous over protecting:  one of their own.  It isn't so much that he pulled a gun on someone, which is bad enough, he pulled a gun on one of their own.  This makes him less than the favorite, not only among one group of law enforcement, but upon the entire fraternity of those who carry a gun.  It did not help the situation to have heard that an officer's estranged wife was involved, either, but the gun, itself, a lethal threat, is just something 'you don't do.' He will be on a short leash.

In practical outworking, Young should expect a  cold shoulder where once it may have not been that way.  They will not tolerate much.  The muck-raking attorney, historically, needs a target to aim at, the way that, for example, Roy Kronk was targeted.  Young will not likely do well attacking the initial reaction to the investigation, nor would he do well in going after any one in law enforcement, including comments various individuals made to the press.  He'll need a target to bluster against, to make press and make himself sound larger than life; don't expect it to be someone in law enforcement.  He will need a smaller target.  He may fall into the trap of "David Versus Goliath" with him being type cast as the ugly Philistine bully.  Not smart for an attorney.

b.  Young's gamble on publicity.  He has a reputation for seeking out case which will bring him free publicity.  This is done by often not only taking on 'hated' clients, but in making outrageous statements and drawing in media.  Recall his "we are a mother...we are hoping its not our little girl" bizarre statement was inflammatory.  Will this be a case that will bring him the type of publicity he wants?

Tough call.

Jose Baez thrived off of being seen as 'swarmy' and illogical.  Young's intellect is much stronger than Baez', but with the instability of substance abuse, it becomes a clouded issue.  He could be clean and sober, and crisp with clarity, or he may pick up where he left off; short tempered, speaking before he thinks.  The rumor mill points to the latter.

Baez had the chemistry of George and Cindy Anthony; the people the nation loved to hate.

Think about it: every time either George or Cindy opened their mouth, the press pounced.  I analyzed much of what they said, as they were rich with deception.  They captured the imagination of a nation, enraged with the soap opera.

As angry as we were, we tuned in.

Nancy Grace was never so popular as when she was going after "Tot mom" or when she was deliberately provoking the audience by courting Cindy Anthony with soft and endearing comments.  In the long run, she did not 'win' the Cindy Anthony interview, but her ratings were strong.

Can Young get the producers for The Nancy Grace Show on board?  Are there other characters in this saga that appeals to the masses?

If so, I don't see them.

Shawn Adkins' family may be something but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.  They have stayed low key and locals report that although they have their own issues like anyone else, they are a hard working, close knit family.  They may present as 'human' and someone the public might feel for, but thus far, they have stayed away from the spotlight.  We don't know what they look like.

George Anthony had that 'steroid' look, playing the poor lost puppy dog act, while working hard his whole life at not working, while Cindy had that wild angry mercurial eye-brow thing going for her, harsh, demanding, in-your-face, "you're no 10, no offense, Ms. Gonzalez" countenance that infuriated the public and made us turn in to hear and see her.

The public hated Cindy Anthony, but she drew ratings and ratings mean money.

I don't see any such rich character draw for John Young to work with to market and turn into defense money.

Clint is not a sympathetic figure because he will stand before a camera and quickly change the topic from his daughter to his love of marijuana.  It is his passion in life and it is his drive to grow and smoke the very thing that took away his initiative and drive as a father and protector to his daughter.  These are the same words I used when I spoke directly to him. Marijuana is a thief that steals away initiative and drive, cancer patient aside.  I feel for his loss and I hope he is able to turn his back on marijuana and be the father and provider he can be to his daughter.

The Ostranders "tap out, good ole boy, hee-haw, can't stay out of prison" thing will not make for good characters on television. Honey boo-boo is about all the ill mannered nonsense the nation can absorb.

About the only thing I can see that would provoke an audience is to have the mother go through various make overs on television, infuriating the public at her callousness towards the case, and let her butcher the English language with "I, we wasn't worried about not drinking when Hailey went missing; nobody was not worry about no party", while using subtitles.  This would be of interest the way Honey boo-boo needs subtitles.  But it appears to be a hand played out.  The shark circles and its about ready to jump.

c.  Raising the money

Without a story to sell, money can't be raised.  Ratings mean money and it will take money, lots of money to defend Dunn.  She is likely to demand to be Front and Center, and she will likely find that Young will compete with her for the spotlight.

It is a trial, not a quick plea bargain, that gets attention, ratings and money even when a plea bargain is in the client's best interest.

I thought that the Casey Anthony defense had no shot at victory and I was wrong.  Even as we view the questions from the Jodi Arias trial, it appears, however, that the Casey Anthony jury was a one-shot deal of illogic and inability to follow an argument.  Jose Baez' performance as a trial attorney was akin to a chimp throwing darts at a Wall Street board and landing on 10 perfect growth companies.  Baez could not have been worse, yet...he won.

Baez blundered point after point because of his limited intelligence, and somehow, for various reasons, the jury said "we believe she did it, but the prosecution didn't prove it" which is nonsense because, how  did you come to believe she did it?  Baez got lucky as his goofiness tripped him and he fell into the winning lottery.

John Young is way smarter than Baez, which will work against him.  Why? Because Young has an ego that will betray him, he will be under immense scrutiny, which for an addict is not something to be handled without major support, and he will be up against the facts of the case and up against something, perhaps, even worse than the facts:

He will be up against Billie Jean Dunn, herself, who holds him, and the rest of the world, in contempt.

She has been lying since childhood, and has succesfuly manipulated her way into 'winning' always and she is not going to be muzzled by him, or anyone else, even as she will not allow him to tell her to 'tone down her dress' or shut her mouth.  It will be the battle of the narcissists to see who gets more camera time.  This, all the while other attorneys are watching and commenting on television saying things he is not going to like hearing.  The talking head attorneys are going to be all over him:

"How could he bring this to trial?"
" He owes it to her to cut a deal to save her life!"
"He can't let her take the stand!"
"He has to ask the judge for a competency hearing!" and on and on it will go.

If a national audience is hooked, he will then face the scrutiny of some big city investigative journalists who do not ask the softball questions that have been the earmark of this case.  They will dig into his background and they will be merciless.

They will openly question is Young was romantically involved with Dunn and they will ask questions that the local media would never dare consider.

Does Young really want to put his family through this sort of scrutiny?

 Will all of this provide real traction for his career?

This is not Casey Anthony dancing it up while 'searching' for her daughter.  This is the ugliness that is different than what we saw in that case.

Casey Anthony was a killer who played coy with the camera, demanding attention.  Think of one journalist calling out to Casey Anthony, "Casey, why do you strut like that?"

Billie Dunn seeks out the camera, which turns people off. 

Casey Anthony was young.
Casey Anthony was not into heavy drugs.
Casey Anthony was not in child pornography.  This is a major public relations turn off that ABC is not going to want to touch.
Casey Anthony's looks are a distinct advantage over Dunn's.  Billie Dunn appears like one who has had a hard life, which makes her look significantly older than she is.  This does not play well to a camera.
Casey Anthony talked "hip" with such things as "Jose Baez?  Yeah, "I'm hitting that." while Billie Dunn's speech belies her intellect.

Who is going to pay a quarter of a million dollars for a video of a mother burning a tattoo into her son's back with stolen nursing items?   It just doesn't work.

Baez also had the support of other attorneys who were so falling over one another to get on the case that one even paid money to get in.  Young will not receive such support in this case.

There is however, one more issue that should be considered by Young (and Dunn) in mapping out strategy and listening to others pitch him ideas about how this can be marketed in order to not only pay for Dunn's defense, but benefit Young's career.  This should not be overlooked:

d.  Angering Shawn Adkins

I've saved the most startling point for last.

John Young has already tipped his hand by stating that his client will "fully cooperate" and that there is a willingness to turn on Adkins.  This was just last month that he said this, when the remains were found.  Here is what he said.  He knows his words will be carefully heard.


"She does not live with Shawn Adkins.  She has had a relationship. "

He does not say "She had a relationship" but she "has" had a relationship.  He then said, 
"Any long term relationship is difficult to break the bonds."  The pronoun, "is" is present tense, even though it is "any"; he is telling us something important.  

Then her attorney tipped his hand regarding the remains:  "If it is, Billie will will will be cooperating so he can be prosecuted to the full extent of the law."


Put yourself in the shoes of Shawn Adkins.  He saw this or read this, and so did his family.  His family has already said that they are not putting their house for sale to pay for his defense.

Put yourself squarely in his shoes:

He turns on the television and sees his ex girlfriend and co-conspirator, with a make over and maybe some botox or plastic surgery, paid for by someone other than her,  standing next to a smiling and expensively attired attorney, talking about how they understand the police and are working with the police and how this will be done "so he can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law", which, for those familiar with Texas even just a little, means the death penalty.

Shawn Adkins is looking at his court appointed attorney wearing cheap shoes and trying to etch out a living for himself, facing the death penalty while Billie is sitting pretty, everything paid for, about to throw him, not under the bus, but under the needle.

The anger will explode.

Just the fact that she gets a free attorney of some renown is enough to anger Adkins, but Young's eagerness to blame Adkins and end his life may be enough to get his pride up and talking.

 Recall: he boasted about threatening Hailey's life and even said that he'd kill Dunn in a way that people would remember for a long time.  His sentence structure shows a lot of truth for those who follow statement analysis.

Shawn Adkins should not be underestimated by Young.  Yet, it is Young's responsibility to defend his client (it should be his responsibility to defend her against malicious prosecution, not to win a game, but that's a different argument).

He has to battle the evidence in the case, the public perception of the case, his own difficult-to-control client and he will have to battle the anger of Shawn Adkins.

The game of "chicken", that is, who makes a deal first, may have just run out of time.  If these remains are Hailey's, it is known already, and the information has not released intentionally.  If this premise is correct, the child pornography charges have also not been levied intentionally, as the larger, bigger picture comes into focus.

John Young has his hands full, and must consider what it is that is on the line.

His client could face the death penalty.
His client could face lengthy prison time for other charges.
His client could be testified against by Shawn Adkins.
His client may not yield much, if any "Hollywood" "licensing fees" from studios.

What pays for her defense?  What even pays for bail?

If Shawn Adkins isn't the biggest hinderance to young's success, it may well be that his own client will be.


89 comments:

Mouthajar said...

Nancy Grace dropped this case like a hot potato. I believe her producers decided the viewers did not want to see another "Ron Cummings white trash, low life" story. Yes, some do watch honey boo boo and sometimes laugh with disgust or embarrassment for the child. However, the death of a teenager is hard to watch.

Mouthajar said...

Another thought. I have never understood why there are so few photographs of hailey. Some we have seen were provided by a teacher, some were taken by Naomi's family. Only a few came from Bd. Some were taken by hailey herself. one of the baby pics is a horrible pic of hailey crying. Still to this day, bd continues to photoshop the same few photos.

Anonymous said...

EXCELLENT post, Peter!

I have only one question: What's to keep some other well-known high-fulleutin' grandiose lawyer from taking on Billie's case? Isn't that possible, so long as he/they, their firm are licensed in the State of Texas?

BTW, I don't know about Texas, but it is illegal in some states for the attorney of record to pay the bail money for their client, nor are they allowed to arrange their clients' release with a bondsman.

Anon 1

Anonymous said...

Not to be disagreeable; however,

On the flip side of the coin, I think Billie & Shawns' case might bring high ratings before the cameras, especially with felony cockroach lawyer Young, a sideshow of his own.

The public and media LOVES juicy sex, infidelity and murder schemes... Add to that a slut like Billie lying, strutting and parading endlessly. Ratings through the roof! Not? Anon 1

Anonymous said...

She got the 'Memorial Tat' very quickly which spoke volumes! It said loud and clear that Hailey was dead. May God have mercy on her soul!

Anonymous said...

I agree Anon. God have mercy.

Anon 1

Just waitin' said...

I'm hoping there will be NO bail. Let them sit it out. They have had over two years to party. Lock them up and throw away the key!

S + K Mum said...

Hailey's brother: whatever happened in that house, he must have heard something. Someone exiting the house, someone driving away in a car, anything. If there was any noise at an unusual time - he is bound to be aware of it.

What will his role be if there is a trial? Witness for his mother, against SA? SA will need to think about that too.

Nanna Frances said...

Peter,

" He may be clean from substance abuse, and, perhaps, on a short leash with the bar, pointing a gun at a law enforcement officer is to touch a bind that law enforcement is very jealous over protecting: one of their own." Is bind a typo for bond?

Young looks cleaner in his ads on online. The community knows.

Anonymous said...

How the hell is Young still practising law?

His license should have been suspended................

Nanna Frances said...

If the charges are first degree murder, there will be no bond. BD and SA will have to wait in jail where they belong.

Anonymous said...

That's where untamed vicious animals belong. In a cage.

Some can't be house broke, they are unteachable. Like these two.

Anon 1

Anonymous said...

Good question, Anon @ 5:52. In some states not only would Youngs' license have been suspended, it would have been revoked and he would have been permanently disbarred and pumping gasoline for a living, IF he could find a job at all.

Just goes to show ya how lax Texas can be on some of their judicial and licensing laws. But woe to the officer that uses him for target practice. I guess they'd string him up real quick, huh?

You'd think they'd stand by their own better than this, allowing a lose canon trigger-finger cocaine dope addled lawyer running around on the lose. Anon 1

GetThem said...

Could be... we'll have to wait and see.

In My Opinion said...

Bail may not be an issue when indicted and charged on a capital felony offense [murder during the commission of another felony i.e., rape] with a sentence of life or death.

In consideration of the acts, the Hailey Dunn Case is "sold out". There are no buyers to defend those who failed to protect, failed to prevent harm and/or harmed this child. John Young and his client may have to revert to their threats to sue the public.

John Young is not as good as he once was. It's time for the "whodunit" to be brought to justice. Hailey deserves nothing less.

Anonymous said...

Le would have taken some action against Billie and Shawn a loooong time ago if Hailey had been from a prominent family. Family status DOES matter in the long run. Little loud-mouthed trashy dopehead families don't mean squat to them, they are just par for the course, all in a days work.

I just hope that public pressure will cause them to remember that justice for Hailey Dunn DOES matter regardless as to how deep down they have to dig into their coffers to prosecute her killers. They can bring justice to bear for Hailey if they want too.

BTW, I wouldn't worry too much about Billie Jean and cockroach Young suing anybody. It takes money to file, pursue and win lawsuits and they don't have any.

Anon 1.

Anonymous said...

News Just out

Billie dunn didn't throw Shawn Adkins under Bus, She's driving the Bus lol

~ABC said...

lol @ Anon 8:18
Billie had Shawn chained to the back bumper of the bus right out of the gate! She is no doubt the mastermind and that's not saying much.

Anonymous said...

This case is not marketable. Casey appeared to be the girl next door. Viewers want to ignore the fact that people like Billie and Shawn even exist.

SAlurkerOne said...

Reading this made my heart hurt for Hailey. She had no chance - being surrounded by others who only cared for themselves.

The poor girl. I'm terrified to ever find out for sure what she went through. But your hypothesis most definitely sounds on target.

I hope the despicable animals that hurt her get the max sentence.

Anonymous said...

Me too, SALurker... me too.

It hurts me that this child's life was wasted so tragically.
She was bright, beautiful and so intelligent with so much on the ball, but meant nothing to those in her life. Nothing.

The self-centered b'stards were determined to destroy her and did. Such a pathetic loss. And so much pain this special young lady suffered, much that we don't even know about.

No, I don't want to know the details either. I just want her laid to rest like the angel she was and those who did this to her paying for the rest of their sorry lives, not that they'll ever feel any remorse, I just want them to suffer, and suffer long and hard.

Anon 1

Anonymous said...

I really don't care for the photo of Hailey at the top of this article. It has an eerie feeling about it.

Anonymous said...

Peter, there is one thing you missed in your comments, Im looking at the part where you said SA family quiet, tight knit, hard working etc.. Ive followed this closely since day 1, and was the person who wanted your analysis early on.. I will say, SA`s dad was very well known to be one of the biggest meth dealers in the area.. yet he never spoke out in defence for his son or himself when all this came out. The uncle is creepy as well I really wonder about this familys hidden past. Theres something I found early on that keeps coming up these days, its the word `storm` he once had a pic at the beginning labeled `target, and storm`which underlay was a map with several locations mapped out. I just hoped it wasnt what my mind led me to and dismissed it. Also a disturbing photo EG posted which he quicly took down couple weeks after, but it was posted the night she disappered and was disturbing.

Peter Hyatt said...

I reference his mother, step father and grandmother as "family"; I also know that a high functioning family will not produce this type of monster, so please understand my reference point is BJD family.

They are generational incarceration.

Peter Hyatt said...

Thanks for the corrections, Nanna and others...

pointhunter said...

Smile!

Katie said...

Anonynous @9:53 can you explain more about the map and the targets? What does storm mean? What what the photo EG posted?

Katie said...

Hi Pointhunter,

Is there good news?

Bonnie Blue said...

I predict that Billie will convince David to take the wrap since he was only 16 yrs old at the time & she will claim she knew nothing about it. Then somehow they can plea it out and he will be put in a juvenile detention type center for 5 yrs or less. (I am guessing and not familiar with Texas law.)
It wouldn't be the first time in history an adult coerced a child to try to take the wrap for them.

MizzMarple said...

I still think whoever talks first with LE and investigators will get the "best deal."

Unless Billie and Shawn have decided to "stick together" and if so, then they will go down together.

Oh, how I wish Juan Martinez could be the prosecutor for Billie and Shawn IF and WHEN they ever get charged ! That would be something to see !

MizzMarple said...

Bonnie Blue said...

I predict that Billie will convince David to take the wrap since he was only 16 yrs old at the time & she will claim she knew nothing about it. Then somehow they can plea it out and he will be put in a juvenile detention type center for 5 yrs or less. (I am guessing and not familiar with Texas law.)

It wouldn't be the first time in history an adult coerced a child to try to take the wrap for them.
---------------------------------

This is an interesting theory -- and -- a possibility because I would NOT put it past Billie [and Shawn] to do something like this !

They are that evil !

Anonymous said...

Peter: I have a question about something you wrote. I've been reading this blog daily since Lisa Irwin went missing and find myself catching words that at one time seemed insignificant and then applying them to your principles. Sometimes I don't agree with your analysis and can see myself using a phrase that you mark as sensitive, but as a whole I find SA very interesting. This is my question...you used the words " It did not help the situation to have heard that an officer's estranged wife was involved, either, but the gun, itself, a lethal threat, is just someone 'you don't do.' He will be on a short leash." I assume you meant "something" and not "someone", but besides that the word "just" in your sentence stood out as weakening your statement. What are your thoughts on this?

~ABC said...

pointhunter said...
Smile!

What's up pointhunter?

Nanna Frances said...

Shawn Adkins Interview

This is an old interview, but it is still interesting.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=shawn+adkins+interview&mid=2953324236B6059521F62953324236B6059521F6&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

moop said...

The injustice to Hailey is unconscionable.

I hope the law does her justice and puts BJ and SA away.





Anonymous said...

Uh, interesting theory that Billie might con David into taking the rap for Hailey's death; and be able to prove it? That would have to include Shawn blaming David too, and whose gonna believe those two? After all this time? Pretty far-fetched. Where's the evidence against David? Nah, don't think so. Won't work.

David was 16 then, and a juvenile, but he's 18 now and would be prosecuted as an adult, bringing him a possible life sentence; all for mommie dearest and her despicable lover? No way.

We know little about David but I can't see him or any other young man agreeing to take the rap for something like this if he didn't do it. I do wonder however, what he knows since he certainly wasn't interested in searching for Hailey. WAS he involved somehow in the coverup? Does he know more than we thought he did? It's possible. Anon 1

Anonymous said...

Thank you Nanna Francis, for the link to the Shawn interview(s). The link was difficult to pull up but if you use only the first 1/3 of the link (stop before the numbers on the longer line) then you can pull it up on google that way. One of the links led to Peter's article wherein he analized Shawn's interview on 3/28. Very interesting. Thank you.

Anon 1

Ladyluck WI said...

I feel sorry for david. if he knew some of the details he probably was and stil is very scared of the consequences. I remember being that age.. and its hard to imagine going completely against something your mom and her boyfriend did, especially something so serious. I just hope that LE can crack him and he lets them know whats going on. it would make him feel much better. maybe he doesn't even know much but he suspects he knows.. so he feels frozen

Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for David too, Ladyluck WI. We have to know that David had a hard time too growing up in the surroundings Billie provided for him and Hailey.

I understand that he too was smart and did well in school, just as Hailey did. How in the world they did is a mystery to me, when they had no stability in their lives and had been sired by dope addicted deadbeats; with a tramp for a mother who got stoned and laid up in bed and had deviant sex with her filthy lover in the next room.

I don't think David ever had a real father, did he? He claimed no-good pothead Clint as his father, but I doubt Clint ever did much for him, just like he did nothing for Hailey after he moved out of the house to shack up with Naomi. I would imagine that David had to go hungry and begging for lunch money too, just as Hailey did.

I don't think POS Clint ever paid any mortgage payments or child support after he moved out, did he; yet he claimed how close he was to David and Hailey and how much he loved them? But not enough to provide a roof over their head or food to feed them, much less a place for them to sleep when they were hurting, neglected, lonely and scared.

Clint loved himself and his pot. Sorry low-down POS. There is no excuse for a man like him taking up breathing space on this earth. I'd like to see him strung up just as much as I'd like to see Billie Jean & Shawn strung up, just for different reasons. Anon 1

Anonymous said...

P.S... To give credit where credit is due; isn't Billie the one who kept a roof over the childrens' head? Not an easy job. Isn't she the one who worked and paid the mortgage and supported the kids in spite of Clint? It certainly wasn't Clint.

Wasn't Clint the first one who got started on the direlect dope treadmill, wouldn't even work and was a drain on Billie? Yes, pot IS dope and highly addictive. I think Clint was the one who started it. At what point did Billie start using dope?

I don't think she was on dope earlier on but Clint was? Then Billie's life went down hill from there and became a drug addicts' nightmare from hell for her children. Maybe Clint bears as much responsibility for what happened to Hailey as Billie does. I hope he suffers for it until his dying day. Anon 1

Peter Hyatt said...

Clint said that early on, BJD was opposed to drugs. Did the marijuana open the door? I think so.
It may not be physically addictive (its debated) but the psychological addiction is evident.

As to putting a roof over Hailey's head, Clint said she was buying and selling cocaine to pay the rent. Remember, once one enters the world of drug sales, they invite violence. People who buy cocaine, for instance, don't ask for receipts, nor leave 5 star ratings. They may want more for less and will visit the house.

This is to put children in harm's way.

Clint was distant, as anyone on pot might find themselves and while his daughter lived with a monster and an abdicating parent, he did not intervene.

He must live with that for the rest of his life.

I would not want to live with it.

Ladyluck WI said...

Does anyone know the approximate age of both BJD and SA?

Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous said...
Peter: I have a question about something you wrote. I've been reading this blog daily since Lisa Irwin went missing and find myself catching words that at one time seemed insignificant and then applying them to your principles. Sometimes I don't agree with your analysis and can see myself using a phrase that you mark as sensitive, but as a whole I find SA very interesting. This is my question...you used the words " It did not help the situation to have heard that an officer's estranged wife was involved, either, but the gun, itself, a lethal threat, is just someone 'you don't do.' He will be on a short leash." I assume you meant "something" and not "someone", but besides that the word "just" in your sentence stood out as weakening your statement. What are your thoughts on this?
April 15, 2013 at 1:17 AM >>

We use sensitive words or statements all the time. Readers here have analyzed my own words, seen information that I did not want out. Just because "we" say something that is sensitive, doesn't negate anything.

a. something is typo. It happens
b. "just" is to reduce it to "solely"; it is "just" or "only", as singular, something "you" (not me, distancing language; I have a reason why I distance myself from this; also "you" is when something is commonly applied to others).

"just" does not minimize always. In context, it isolates. There are lots of things you or I could do to a law officer; be fresh, be polite, etc, but pointing a gun, or pulling a gun, is not one of them. Many people do not live to tell about it.

Keep up the good work.

Don't dismiss something just because you use it. Question yourself. Question your context.

S/A has helped me become more honest, more frank.

By the way, in that sentence I wrote there is passivity. I am surprised that no one has picked up on it yet.

What does passivity indicate?


good post!

Peter Hyatt said...

If you are going to make an intelligent post...

choose a name!

pointhunter said...

Katie

I am sorry I did not intend my comment to mean there was news.

Peter's analysis was just so good, that it made me smile.

JWW said...

Peter,

You make the statement that BJD seeks out the camera, and it turns people off.

What do you think about the man who found the body? He did not go on camera, only a radio interview?

At first that made me Suspicious, that he did not want to be on camera.

Katie said...

Pointhunter, thank you for replying. That was my 2nd thought as to why you smiled.

Katie said...

Peter,

You said:
By the way, in that sentence I wrote there is passivity. I am surprised that no one has picked up on it yet.

What does passivity indicate?
---

I'm still trying to learn so I am going to try to answer.

You said in that sentence "It did not help the situation to have heard that an officer's estranged wife was involved" Is this the passive part? Passive language seeks seeks to reduce responsibility or conceal identity. Were you reducing your responsibility or your commitment to outright saying 'he was involved with an officer's estranged wife?

Trigger said...

Billie may not get a movie deal but it would make for a good crime novel.

Hard as I try, I cannot really understand the compulsion to kill or hurt a helpless child. Children are so sweet, innocent, and trusting.

pointhunter said...

I have a feeling that this case will set precedence, for future similar cases.
And it should provide LE with a new found respect for statement analysis, since Peter will be proven correct when the case goes to court. This case would make an excellent book if it were used as a training aid.
I hope the perpetrators of this heinous crime, are unsuccessful in making any profit from a movie or book deal.

Trigger said...

I agree with pointhunter.

Trigger said...

Does anyone on this blog have an idea where Shawn Adkins is living currently?

Peter stated that Shawn is not in Texas.

If Shawn is not working, he has no income, so he must be staying with a relative.

I agree that Billie and her lawyer have a plan. Shawn is the only one who can put a wrench in the spokes that spin Billie's defense.

pointhunter said...

Trigger

When local media attempted to interview him at his mothers house, they refused to answer the door. They were reported to have stated that SA was working out of state in Colorado.

There have been some unconfirmed reports of seeing him here in Big Spring Tx.

Anonymous said...

Nor can I, Trigger. I just don't get it and never will. There is nothing more precious than a child. There is no greater fun or pleasure one can have than with their child. Years later the memories of so many little things they did escapes you, and how you wish you could relive it, but you can only remember how precious they were; how you wish you could go back and do your time with them all over again, only more of it.

You wouldn't be in such a hurry or allow yourself to get annoyed. You would realize how sweet and important these times with them are, and that nothing else in the world could ever mean as much as they do. Then suddenly its' over. I never knew how much I would miss having the little ones with me until after they were grown and gone. You just don't think about it at the time.

You know, the sweetest sound in the world is children at play together, lost in their own little world. So innocent, quietly playing their little games. I tell ya, I would start over today with another one or two if I could. Anon 1

Ladyluck WI said...

Pointhunter, how familiar were you with this case before you found what you did?

Ladyluck WI said...

Pointhunter..I am interested in this because of all the unexplained experiences I've observed or encountered in my life. I feel like intuition is something that needs to be studied and validated more.

Anonymous said...

Hi Pointhunter. Been missing you the last couple of days, wasn't posting at the same times you were. Hope you are well... Anon 1

Anonymous said...

Interesting post Ladyluck. Personally, I don't think it is ever going to be possible to explore the mind of another, or even your own mind.

Sleep experts have tried to the limits of their knowledge and experience, still, no one can predict what someone is going to dream, or think, or can tell what their subjects dreamed or know why they had a particular dream, some they forget and some they remember. Just as it is with our intuition, it is the vast unknown of the human mind, that no one can get inside of. Multiple studies have been performed on these issues; still no one knows any more than the day they started.

To know why one person does a certain thing, or thinks a certain thing; or why another person thinks and does something entirely different, or even thinks the same thing you did at the same time, or what they were thinking, or why, is to explore beyond the capabilities of the mind and no human is capable of doing that.

The exploration of the human mind and how it functions is a vast undertaking; tried by man and failed. I think we just have to live with what we don't know concerning the unknown of the human mind, or ask God, then let it rest there. Anon 1 Just MOO.

Ladyluck WI said...

Anon 1, I understand your point but I also try push open any boundaries we set upon ourselves. I haev studied dream analysis for years and you may be amazed at what you could discover about yourself and your dreams. there are different types of dreams, of course, but most commonly we have dreams of the anxieties, frustrations, that are present or what we anticipate.

for instance i just got done paying off quite a bit of debt. i pulled my credit report and found some debtors that I had lost contact with several years ago. After a few weeks worth of phonecalls, running around, etc, I was able to pay off every last dbet I owed (except for a student loan)
anyways.. the other night I woke up from some nightmares and told my husband that the whole night I was dreaming about murdering someone,s tabbing them over and over again. he asked who the person was that I murdered and I instantly remembered it was someone who I perceived as a "debt collector" so this dream literally means that I went after and "killed" all the debt!

~ABC said...

Trigger said...
"Hard as I try, I cannot really understand the compulsion to kill or hurt a helpless child. Children are so sweet, innocent, and trusting."

It is beyond reason isn't it? I think part of the problem is the immaturity of the so-called adults involved. They are so childish themselves that they are interacting with the children on that level. We know how cruel children can be to other children....

Trigger said...

Thanks, pointhunter.

I just can't see a guy like Shawn being away from his familiar surroundings and his kindred spirits.

Local anon said...

While I do think that LE is being very careful to pull together a slam dunk case before any arrests or announcements, what about the announcement as to who the remains are? Isn't it the requirement of the ME to inform the parents/next of kin when a determination is made?. Could LE be telling the ME "don't make your conclusion yet, we need time"? Not like they haven't had over two years....Is that a possible scenario? I want to thank pointhunter again for giving us hope that LE has evidence they can use to arrest these two.

Ladyluck WI said...

The other part I find ironic about pointhutner..is that he was searching for fossils. and what happened to find is "like" a fossil in many ways is it not? why does one search for fossils? to discover a part of history, something that used to live, and had its own story to tell. and to discover a fossil would be to give it a chance to speak again.

and look what the fossil hunter found! i just think thats incredible

Trigger said...

Hi ABC,

My own children were not bent on cruelty. They grew up to be compassionate, considerate, productive, caring, and respectful of others.

There was only one cruel boy in our neighborhood that I remember. We tried to make him our friend and show him acceptance and kindness but he couldn't relate to our kindness towards him.

He said that he was mad at his mother and blamed her for making his dad go away.

Sus said...

Wow Peter! You nailed it, especially the last section. I wonder if one of them, SA or BJD, is already talking or at least making overtures to LE about turning on the other.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Local Anon. Aren't we being a bit presumptuous? I too think the remains are of Hailey - however, until it's official, there is no telling how this case will unfold.

Anonymous said...

Yes, in Texas, it is perfectly legal for the attorney to post bond.

Ladyluck WI said...

I have no idea what else pointhunter has disclosed.. i just find it so hard to beleive that there would be evidence left that confirms a suspect. think caylee..she was only out in the elements for less than half a year.. this is 2 years. any rain will ahve washed away touch dna, i assume. things will have deteriorated.. unless the perp was very sloppy or intentionally left something i see another caylee.. hard to tell manner of death, etc unless there's something obvious

Anonymous said...

Trigger,
Shawn has been on an extended stay in Lovington, New Mexico, with his cousin Corey.
His day to day location is variable.

Anonymous said...

In no way will this gain national attention. IF the remains are Hailey, it will not play itself out like the Casey Anthony trial - I am from Texas. And I just cannot see any Texas judge allowing this case to be tried in the media.

Not only that, IF this case goes to trial, there will be a change of venue - it will not be held at Colorado City's county seat.

Texas judges are VERY guarded abouy trial proceedings. There is no use in getting the horse before the cart on this. It won't play out in the public's eye.

Anonymous said...

Peter, there are people on here who want to comment, and do so intelligently, but wish to remain anonymous because of the trolls that use their names.

And you of all people should realize that. People wishing to remain anonymous has nothing to do with intelligence.

Trigger said...

Hi Anon 1:19,
Your information about Shawn sounds reasonable.

Trigger said...

"In no way will this gain national attention...etc."

I don't see how a judge in Texas can control what goes on in a public trial about a murder that has already captured public attention no matter how guarded that judge is with the evidence.

pointhunter said...

Ladyluck WI

I really had little knowledge of the case prior to finding the remains. Since then I have studied the case very closely, and will continue to study until justice is served.

Dee said...

Anonymous said...
Peter, there are people on here who want to comment, and do so intelligently, but wish to remain anonymous because of the trolls that use their names.

And you of all people should realize that. People wishing to remain anonymous has nothing to do with intelligence.

***********************************
There are many anons who post who are insightful and intelligent. I'm sure Peter didn't mean it in that way. It is easier to respond to a name instead of anon. At any given time there might be 5 or 6 posts from "anonymous". When you post pick the name/url choice. You don't have to put in a url just a name, any name. You don't have to register or use your email. Pick a different name every time you post if you want. You're still anon but now posters can respond directly to you. Trolls steal names to post on occasion but most often they use anon. Unfortunately it happens on every blog.

Lis said...

Trigger said...

"Hard as I try, I cannot really understand the compulsion to kill or hurt a helpless child. Children are so sweet, innocent, and trusting."

Trigger, when a person's own innocence and trust have been shattered and destroyed very young, they will often turn their contempt towards those who have what they lost, rather than towards those who damaged them. I think jealousy is a factor, and cowardice as well, they are afraid to direct their anger to those who caused it.

Sus said...

Peter said on another post that Hailey may have been pregnant. She did look and walk like it in the video walking down the hall of her school.

I have always wondered if BJD gave Hailey something to induce an abortion. It fits with BJD telling Hailey to eat...like maybe Hailey didn't feel well.

I cannot speak for pointhunter, but he did say he was certain they could get DNA even though he saw no hair or flesh. Yes, there were teeth, but he said he was certain because of another item. This item also led him to be 70% certain this was a female and probably Hailey.

Please, pointhunter, point out if I have any of your words incorrect. I found it interesting that pointhunter went directly to calling SA a pedophile on his next post.

Was a fetus found with the body? For that to be so after all this time, it would have to be wrapped in something (plastic?) possibly with bloodstains set in to the fabric.

I'm trying to pay close attention to words, but it seems so far-fetched.

Skeptical said...

I too think BJD's tattoo is a form of a memorial. The only other cases I can remember where the parents had tattoos of their children are Ron Cummings and Darin Routier, Darlie Routier's husband. Those children are assumed to be or are known to be dead.

pointhunter said...

Sus

I did not see anything to make me think she was or had been pregnant at the site of the remains. After I left the area LE had all kinds of equipment and did a much more thorough search. So I do not know what else they may have found. The pedophile comment was derived from my research, and the fact he had child porn on his electronic devices.

Trigger said...

Hi Lis,

Thanks for the clarity.

It is understandable that the abused are afraid to focus their anger on the ones who hurt them.

Is this a reason for a strong compulsion for murdering a child the way that Hailey was?

I know that it is a reason for a strong compulsion to abuse children.

Sus said...

pointhunter,
thank you for nixing that right away. I appreciate that you are on this board to clarify things....namely my wild imagination. Lol.

Trigger said...

I agree with pointhunter.

If an adult has child porn on a personal electronic device, that they possess, along with other types of porn, it is reasonable to believe that the adult in question is a pedophile.

pointhunter said...

I hope the Perp or some of his supporters “if he has any” have read Peter’s analysis above. If I were “standing squarely in Perp’s shoes”, I would be running to the closest LE and working out a deal. The death penalty is the least of a convicted pedophile/murders worry in a Texas state prison.

Local anon said...

Well said point hunter!

Excruciating Headache said...

I don't mean to be creepy, but a fetal skeleton is really soft. We don't even develop bones until the second trimester. An embryo or young fetus would decompose much more quickly than adult remains.

~ABC said...

Trigger said...
"Hi ABC,

My own children were not bent on cruelty. They grew up to be compassionate, considerate, productive, caring, and respectful of others.

There was only one cruel boy in our neighborhood that I remember. We tried to make him our friend and show him acceptance and kindness but he couldn't relate to our kindness towards him.

He said that he was mad at his mother and blamed her for making his dad go away."


Hi Trigger

I have no doubt your children are all those things because I sense those things from you too :)

So I should have qualified my comment. We all know how cruel SOME children can be to other children. And so the pattern of immature parents "raising" children continues. Some escape the cycle, but so many more don't it seems. It goes along with what Peter said about generational incarceration, parenting and heritage really matters. It's not the entire answer, but for me immaturity, as well as resentment and hatred, is very easy to see in Billie Dunn and Shawn Adkins.

Anonymous said...

If Shawn can be classified as a pedophile, and I don't doubt that he is; then so is Billie Jean. She TOO was involved in enjoying the child porn videos. SOO then, let's label them both what they are, among other things: PEDOPHILES. Anon 1

Anonymous said...

No offense, Anon at 8:14, but no one calls marijuana 'dope' anymore. Pot, yes, but these days 'dope' is a term used mainly for methamphetamines. While meth is highly addictive, marijuana is not. This coming from experience and not simply from my a$$. I read somewhere here SA's father is the biggest dealer of methamphetamines in the area.. whether there's any truth to that, who knows, but my first impression of BD was/is she has the signature look of tweaker.

Anonymous said...

I didn't mean to imply I'm a meth user. Though I've never seen it or it's use first hand, I have seen a lot families destroyed because of it.. I happen to live in the meth 'capital' of the country. Woohoo.