Friday, May 31, 2013

Trayvon Martin: Admin Leave for Court Employee

from the AP wire:


A court employee who retrieved photos and deleted text messages from Trayvon Martin's cellphone has been placed on administrative leave after an attorney testified that prosecutors didn't properly turn over the evidence to the defense, an attorney said Wednesday.
Former prosecutor Wesley White said he was ethically obligated to reveal that Fourth Judicial Circuit Information Technology Director Ben Kruidbos retrieved the data that weren't turned over.
Kruidbos was placed on leave shortly after White testified during a hearing in George Zimmerman's second-degree murder case on Tuesday. White said Kruidbos was interviewed by state attorney investigators twice before the action was taken.
White said he wasn't surprised of possible evidence violations by Zimmerman prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.
"I was saddened by it, but I'm not surprised," he said.
Note the order. 
White first learned about the evidence through Kruidbos more than a month ago, he said.
Phone and email messages left at the office of Fourth Judicial Circuit State Attorney Angela Corey were not immediately returned.
Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in 17-year-old Martin's killing and has pleaded not guilty, saying he acted in self-defense. Circuit Judge Debra Nelson has denied a defense motion to delay the trial, which scheduled to begin on June 10.
White led the Nassau County state attorney's office before resigning in December, citing differences of opinion with Corey. He is now in private practice.
White said the photos Kruidbos retrieved were of a hand holding a gun and one depicted drugs. The content of the text messages wasn't specified.
"I'm an officer of the court and I'm obliged to inform the court of any misconduct or any potential misconduct coming before the court. Whether it's by the defense or prosecution," White said.
The defense released photos of a gun, marijuana plant and Martin's text messages publicly, saying that if prosecutors planned to paint Zimmerman as the aggressor and Martin as the innocent bystander, they wanted the information to defend him. Attorneys won't be able to mention the teen's drug use, suspension from school and past fighting during opening statements at the trial, Nelson ruled Tuesday.
Nelson has set a full hearing on the turning over of evidence for next week.
Defense attorney Mark O'Mara has previously brought a handful of motions alleging that the state attorney's office had been slow to turn over other evidence.
White said his disclosure to the defense isn't sparked by any animosity toward his former employer.
"It has to do with the rule of law," White said. "When Mr. Kruidbos testifies next week, it will be his testimony and not my own."
O'Mara said Tuesday that he felt compelled to bring this matter to the attention of the judge after a hearing earlier this month in which De la Rionda was emphatic that he'd turned over all evidence related to Martin's cellphone.
"(Kruidbos) knew information that nobody else would know about what (the state attorney's office) didn't give us," O'Mara said. "The picture of the gun in the hand, for example, had not been turned over to us. But that had been created back in late January within the state attorney's office.
"That inquiry, if in fact it continues and it certainly should, could lead to some very dire consequences for those who made presentations to the judge that were not accurate."
O'Mara reported on the defense team's website Wednesday that Zimmerman's defense fund had less than $5,000 left. The fund had raised almost $315,000 by January.
His attorneys are calculating that Zimmerman needs another $120,000 to put on a good defense, or even another $75,000 to give him a fighting chance.
y

57 comments:

Lis said...

This case frightens me more than any in recent history. The media and civic leaders took complete control of the narrative and touched off a storm of righteous indignation.

People want to respond to what they believe happened, they do not want to hear the evidence or examine any facts, they are out for blood without having been there or having any idea what transpired or why, but they are sure they do know. It is frightening to see how rabid people have become and how they say openly, they do not care what the facts are.

It illustrates to me how easily the media can bring the public to the point of violence. We look at times in the past where propaganda has been used to inflame the public and we think we are somehow more advanced than that today, but we are not. It is simply that the subjects have changed.

not.usually.anon(just wanna avoid pitchforks on my porch) said...

If George Zimmerman were a black man, this would not be happening. If Treyvon Martin were an Hispanic or White male, this would not be happening. If Treyvon were as goody-goody two shoes as people want to make him out to be, they woudln't have to hide his text messages, put out pics of him YEARS younger than he was, or lie or hide his problems in school, with the thieves tools, etc. If Zimmerman were a REAL police officer, this would not be happening. Zimmerman got a bit overzealous, over estimated himself, and was acting like he was saving 50 old ladies from a rapist, rather than just trying to catch a neighborhood burglar.
Should Zimmerman not have chased after Treyvon? Probably, yes.

Should Treyvon have ran home, or hid, INSTEAD of hiding and jumping out to attack George? Probably, yes.

Should George have been carrying a gun? Probably not.

Would they all be happier if Treyvon had actually gotten a hold of the gun and shot and killed George?

I think both sides were wrong, and if they weren't they would not have had to SPIN SPIN SPIN LIE & DECEIVE.

Deejay said...

Peter et.al.-
I enjoy this blog, but reading about Trayvon Martin here horrifies me.

This case is pretty simple- a seventeen year old was walking home talking on his cell phone. A neighborhood watch volunteer called 911, but then got out of his truck and goes up to the kid. A struggle/fight happens, and the kid ends up dead.

These points are true:
1. Trouble the kid did in the past, but wasn't doing at that moment does not justify his death.
2. Trouble that people can imagine the kid might do at a future date (bad seed justification) doesn't count either.
3. The kid probably had no idea who this person was, what he wanted, or that the person had a gun.
4. If Zimmerman had stopped with his 911 call (no contact with kid) this death would have never happened!!

I don't understand the vitriol this case bring to this blog- nor do I understand the defense of vigilante actions. Trayvon could be anyone's teenager walking along. It could have been my teenage son...

I agree Zimmerman had a right to call 911. The police would have questioned the kid and let him go on home- as no crime was happening. Instead the kid ended up dead! Dead is forever. This case makes me as sad for loss of a kid's life as Hailey Dunn.

So why, why do so many here defend the person who for whatever reason caused a teenager to be dead??? At best it was really bad judgement for which a kid paid with his life. As I said, I am absolutely horrified.

Peter Hyatt said...

Deejay,

There is a lot wrong with this case, but to begin with, I don't think Trayvon was just out for a stroll in the neighborhood, minding his own business.

The dirty politics attached to this case is astounding. The poster is correct: if Zimmerman was black, it would not be getting attention.

Peter

Anonymous said...

If Trayvon hadnt been black this wouldnt be a high profile case because the police dept would NOT have tried to bury it!!

:(
renah

Peter Hyatt said...

One other thing about the hateful comments here:

We do our best to get to them, often the next day, but don't think that a lot of nasty comments come from a lot of people.

Often, it is one person posting over and over, even using other names, in order to appear as if there is a well of support. There is not.

Eventually, the SPAM filter learns the IP address and they are blocked. Anyone nutty enough to still post on a blog they hate has issues far beyond anything that can be answered.

PLEASE do not copy and paste the nasty stuff otherwise your comment gets deleted in order to get rid of the nonsense.

Trayvon Martin, like politics, can be discussed rationally by us. Skip the nasty stuff.

thanks,

Peter

Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous said...
If Trayvon hadnt been black this wouldnt be a high profile case because the police dept would NOT have tried to bury it!!

:(
renah

Do you think the president would have taken up on this case had Trayvon been white?

The racism is undeniable, but even as your post points out, you feel it is also evident with the police. You may be right. The racism is everywhere in this case.

Has anyone read Mark McClish' analysis of the statement of George Zimmerman?

It is interesting.

Peter

Lemon said...

Thank you Peter. The hate filled ranters get tedious.

Peter Hyatt said...

Here is the link for Mark's work:


His question is:

did George Zimmerman shoot him in self defense?

Peter

http://www.statementanalysis.com/george-zimmerman/

Peter Hyatt said...

Don't forget, Missus Lemon,

it is likely one person...I know that you're able to see the similarity in language from posts, but I post this for others to consider when they pause to read the ridiculous taunts, or juvenile name calling.

Peter

TrishapatK said...

I don't know how many years ago it was when"negro's" were treated unfairly and strung up to die. No one denies how wrong that was. For a time it may have been necessary to make doubly sure that supposed perpetrators of crimes who happened to be black weren't getting unfair treatment ... but the pendulum seems to have swung way too far to the other side.
There are breathtakingly horrible things that are occasionally done by blacks - against people with different skin color or the same, that don't get lots of media attention and don't end up with punishment fitting the crime. But if something happens to a black man it's as if his "presumed innocence" is beyond question and any man with different skin tone who may have done anything against the black man - well, he is given informal presupposition of guilt.
The pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction. It's prejudice with a slightly different slant to it.
What ever happened to not judging a man by his skin color???

Peter Hyatt said...

Trish,

there was unfair treatment of some; history shows that broad strokes were used to unfairly attempt to paint everyone with the same nasty portrait.

We desperately need healing in this nation. We are now so terribly divided. We have severe hatred against people of faith and conservatives and libertarians.

The IRS scandal is so deep, and so un American that there is no way this did not go on without approval from the President. They targeted HIS enemies, and given the magnitude, thousands of people were involved, not hundreds. (maybe even more)

When I read how medical records were subpoenaed, it sounded like, not just the 1840's, but the actual War Between the States period where journalist who did not support certain polices, found themselves arrested in the middle of the night, with some never being heard from again.

Those who have not learned from history, do, in deed, repeat it.

We need healing.

We need color blind justice.

This was not a simple case, and should not have been viewed as such but when a MAJOR network photoshopped...

it showed just how deep this 'war' without guns has gone.

Peter

Deejay said...

Peter- I read McClish's analysis (a while back, so forgive my memory lapses). I remember he thought Zimmerman was telling the truth- EXCEPT FOR the part where he got out of the truck and was walking/following/checking addresses/whatever.

BUT GZ action that is the whole problem. The kid made GZ suspicious. He called 911. Up to that point - OK. Wait for the police!

What ever the kid was doing at that point- even if it was bad or wrong thoughts- DID NOT deserve a death penalty.

My point is the kid died a few minutes after crossing paths with GZ- and lots of people are ok with it. That's what horrifies me.

Deejay said...

My daughter is a good example of a questionable teenager. Among many other poor judgement issues, she had a drinking party when I was away from home. Legally, she could have gone to jail. Instead, she got (juvenile) community service.

Fast forward 10 years- technical master's degree and works for a defense contractor. She has become a productive, valuable member of society- because she now has an adult brain.

Peter Hyatt said...

I see your reference point; thanks for sharing that.

Zimmerman should have called 911 and STAYED out of things; period.

I don't believe he "murdered" Trayvon, but he should have known better, especially given the racial sensitivity this country has.

Stupid, stupid man. All he had to do was dial 911.



Peter

Deejay said...

Anonymous- I respect Peter very much. I don't feel he needs to agree with how I see this. He has been a caring advocate for many.

This case just makes me very sad, because I see a kid who died for what (to me) is a GZ mistake. (Not waiting for police response)

I don't see this as liberal or conservative- we all have the right not to be shot.

The most conservative people I know would be furious if GZ came up to interact with them. i.e. questioning them as a neighborhood watch person.

john said...

George Zimmerman's Exclusive Full Interview With Sean Hannity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaua8aAUpOs

john said...

"I don't believe he "murdered" Trayvon, but he should have known better"

Peter,can you clarify,do you not believe he shot,and killed him?

john said...

I meant to add "intentionally"

Anonymous said...

Not.usually.anon at 1:05pm
- well put, I for one agree with you.

Things went terribly, tragically wrong that night.

But what makes this case truly scary is the disgusting manipulation, and instrumentalisation, that can be seen on both sides.

At this point, Zimmerman has no chance at a *fair* process based on the *facts* and not on the spin and public demands of "justice" (translated: blood) from various factions.

BostonLady said...

I'm dreading this case. There is so much spin and deception being reported that it is difficult to find the truth.

I see a teenager dead. I see his parents profiting off of his death. They settled for a large fee. They did this before the case because ???

Why wouldn't past behavior on BOTH sides be allowed in the court? I don't think I've seen a case where it wasn't. Why an attempt to distort and cover up the facts? Something is terribly terribly wrong.

I don't see how this trial can be considered fair on either side. This becomes a race issue and yet, Zimmerman is not white.

I am not going to watch the trial because I see nothing but hurt and anger coming out of this.

Excruciating Headache said...

I'm thinking manslaughter instead of murder.

"There is a lot wrong with this case, but to begin with, I don't think Trayvon was just out for a stroll in the neighborhood, minding his own business."

Maybe. I know I'm always suspicious of young black men who buy iced tea and Skittles for their little sisters.

We can be sure that Mr. Zimmerman wasn't minding his own business.

TrishapatK said...

Didn't George Zimmerman say that Trayvon Martin was bashing his head against the pavement? Regardless of whether or not GZ should have simply called 911 he was having his head bashed by TM - it seems to me that is valid thing to defend yourself against.

It's not like GZ just took aim at a young man out walking in the neighborhood. Isn't it possible that GZ was correct about his suspicions that TM was a potential problem? And it seems to have been borne out by what happened after he called 911.

I don't know about the details regarding the use of his gun and how TM ended up being shot dead but the story I recall makes a claim of self defense sound plausible. Aren't there pictures taken at the scene, or shortly thereafter, of the back of his head with blood on it?

john said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qiub3siGrb8

Watch this..GZ

Peter Hyatt said...

Trish,

once the battle began, he defended himself. You are correct.

I only wish he had the sense to call 911, but that does not negate that Trayvon was very violent and he might have died had he not shot Trayvon.

Peter

Peter Hyatt said...

I don't think I have ever given my opinion on this case until now...

hmmmmm


Peter

Peter Hyatt said...

John: I was using "murder" in the legal sense. PH

Kathy said...

Trish at 6:58 pm
"Aren't there pictures taken at the scene, or shortly thereafter, of the back of his head with blood on it?"

Yes there are, but the photos I saw show the blood trickling down in a forward path, not what you would expect if Zimmerman was on his back on the ground.

Also, there were photos taken of his lower pant legs and shoes. The photos I saw showed lawn debris on the front of his shoes and nothing on the back. Again, if Zimmerman was on his back on the ground, one would expect the lawn debris to be on the back of the shoe, not on the front.

This is a very devisive case and no one will be happy with the outcome.

john said...

HI TrishapatK

If you watch this vt at 08:14,it shows the blood on the back of his head,this is not consistent with a head bashing on concrete..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qiub3siGrb8

john said...

Shooting of Trayvon Martin.

..............

Background of the shooting.

Shooting and investigation.

Sanford Police Investigation.

Further investigation..

Martin's autopsy report..

Witness accounts..

Witness 8..

George Zimmerman's account of events..

Zimmerman's first media interview..

Prosecution's account of events..

Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls..

Shooting aftermath..

Martin family response..

Zimmerman and family..

Court proceedings..

Public response..

Alleged race issues

Allegations against Zimmerman..

Defense of Zimmerman's character..

Allegations against the Sanford police..

"Stand your ground" laws..

Media coverage..

Aspects of coverage
Media portrayal of Martin and Zimmerman..

Reporting on Zimmerman's call to police..

Misleading audio editing by NBC..

Surveillance video mistake..

Social media..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Peter Hyatt said...

John,

This case is anything but simple.

john said...

Hi Peter,

In my opinion its been a total mess from the start,all parties included.

shmi said...

I agree John,
both people should have handled it differently. Trayvon, a kid, a thug in training? GZ, a wannabe cop, a concerned citizen?

shmi said...

Don't take the law into your own hands. How many times have we heard that? How many times are the laws failing people? Victims get re-victimized at trails (think of Jodi Aria's self indulgent story on the stand and how Travis's family had to endure her lies). Children who are court ordered to spend time with a violent, deviant, abusive parent. I am thinking of Susan Powell's boys and Dylan Redwine.

And one of the most hideous of all (to me) is Kyron Horman's stepmom. She is beng protected, sheilded by laws. If I were Desiree, I would take my chances, and do something to make her tell what she did to Kyron. I would tie her up and give her a truth serum, definitly punch her in the face! Who would blame her? Oh, that's against THE LAW!! Judicial system is a joke.

Okay, my rant for the day is over!

shmi said...

It must be pretty clear to all who study statement analysis that I have been victimized by the justice system.

Deejay said...

GZ went up to TM, and it is under discussion exactly what happened. But similar to Jodi Arias, there is only one person standing to tell the story. The other party is dead.

The following is my opinion only- GZ was smart enough to know he needed strong 'proof' of self defense. I'm not saying he wasn't injured, but some of the injuries shown on GZ look self inflicted - The scrape on the back of his head he says came from repeated banging on concrete looks jagged to me like a gouge from a key. And it is in the exact spot and angle you get if reaching up over your own head with your right hand.

TrishapatK said...

Thank you for the links where I could see the wound on GZ's head. I watched the video also. I'd rather see a more objective video than this. I found the text overlays annoying, they are just telling you what the poster of the video wants you to think. I'd rather watch the actual interviews and compare things myself.

It doesn't seem like GZ was looking for a fight. GZ gets criticized for not just calling 911 - he was trying to simply do the responsible thing and stuck with it, he saw no reason to escalate this into an emergency situation. It seems like Trayvon is the one who turned it into an antagonistic situation and started a fight by asking GZ if he had a problem and then when GZ said that he didn't, TM responded by telling him that he had a problem now and punched him in the nose. A punch in the nose is very painful, enough so that all you can be aware of is the pain and not exactly how you ended up in whatever position.

His story hasn't changed. It has been plausible from the very beginning. It is a tragedy and I certainly wish it had not ended up with TM"s death - but sadly, when you pick a fight, and it sounds like he did, awful things can happen. The intention is to hurt the other person and you draw them into a situation where they are actively involved and almost have no choice but to fight back. If it is true that TM said to GZ " you're gonna die tonight" and seemed to be reaching for the gun I can see why GZ felt compelled to grab it himself and stop TM from doing what he just stated that he was going to do - kill GZ.

It is true that we have only one of the two people who were there to tell the story - and that part IS similar to the Jodi Arias case - but what is different is that Jodi's stories changed several times and her final story had little ( if anything) to back it up. GZ's reporting of the incident itself has been basically consistent and plausible.

I have nothing against Trayvon Martin and my heart goes out to his family. I wish he hadn't gotten killed that night. I don't think this is a case of racial profiling and assumption of guilt in his case. I think that they are going to the opposite extreme and taking advantage of the fact that he is black, accusing others of racial profiling and trying to use it to their advantage. It reminds me of how people who are not pleased with our current government are so frequently and glibly accused of being racists when skin color has absolutely nothing to do with the situation.

TrishapatK said...

Thank you for the links where I could see the wound on GZ's head. I watched the video also. I'd rather see a more objective video than this. I found the text overlays annoying, they are just telling you what the poster of the video wants you to think. I'd rather watch the actual interviews and compare things myself.

It doesn't seem like GZ was looking for a fight. GZ gets criticized for not just calling 911 - he was trying to simply do the responsible thing and stuck with it, he saw no reason to escalate this into an emergency situation. It seems like Trayvon is the one who turned it into an antagonistic situation and started a fight by asking GZ if he had a problem and then when GZ said that he didn't, TM responded by telling him that he had a problem now and punched him in the nose. A punch in the nose is very painful, enough so that all you can be aware of is the pain and not exactly how you ended up in whatever position.

His story hasn't changed. It has been plausible from the very beginning. It is a tragedy and I certainly wish it had not ended up with TM"s death - but sadly, when you pick a fight, and it sounds like he did, awful things can happen. The intention is to hurt the other person and you draw them into a situation where they are actively involved and almost have no choice but to fight back. If it is true that TM said to GZ " you're gonna die tonight" and seemed to be reaching for the gun I can see why GZ felt compelled to grab it himself and stop TM from doing what he just stated that he was going to do - kill GZ.

It is true that we have only one of the two people who were there to tell the story - and that part IS similar to the Jodi Arias case - but what is different is that Jodi's stories changed several times and her final story had little ( if anything) to back it up. GZ's reporting of the incident itself has been basically consistent and plausible.

I have nothing against Trayvon Martin and my heart goes out to his family. I wish he hadn't gotten killed that night. I don't think this is a case of racial profiling and assumption of guilt in his case. I think that they are going to the opposite extreme and taking advantage of the fact that he is black, accusing others of racial profiling and trying to use it to their advantage. It reminds me of how people who are not pleased with our current government are so frequently and glibly accused of being racists when skin color has absolutely nothing to do with the situation.

TrishapatK said...

I'm sorry for the double post - I have no idea how that happened.

TrishapatK said...

Peter, thank you for the analysis done by Mark McClish. I read the link you sent and will follow through later reading the analysis of his reenactment.

john said...

Trishapatk.

He changes his story a few times.

Listen to these recordings.

In my opinion he is being deceptive.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCwod-rn2DE

Deejay said...

Trishapatk-
We have no idea who said what-
It is natural for each party in a 'dispute' to minimize their own culpability and maximize the other persons.
Trouble is with this story, TMs half of the story died with him. So GZs version is the only version out there. (The quotes you are giving 'you're going to die', etc, came from GZ- there are no tapes or witnesses.)
GZ also reported that the kid grabbed the gun- but that has been disproved by DNA. GZ reported he was only walking around looking for an address, but the 911 tape clearly sounds like he got out of his car and ran- making loud panting sounds. So there are at least 2 lies in GZs story with proof.
You have to take GZ quotes with a grain of salt, as he is telling his story so that he bears no legal responsibility. TM would probably tell a different story, where it was GZs fault, but he is not here.

~mj said...

"It doesn't seem like GZ was looking for a fight. GZ gets criticized for not just calling 911 - he was trying to simply do the responsible thing and stuck with it, ..."

This is the flawed thinking. He did not need to "stick with it" had he not none of the other events would have happened. The 911 dispatch even told him not to follow him. GZ was acting from past experience of the string of robberies and didn't want it to happen again and get away with it while they waited for the police, perhaps. If this is the case, I can understand that, but that does not remove his responsibility for what happened from the moment he decided to pursue TM.

Taking GZ at truth, if his account is the whole truth, then he bears direct responsibility for loss of life because he "stuck with it" obviously, if his testimony is accurate, TM bears responsibility too, for being so aggressive.

Unfortunately all we do know for sure is that GZ "stuck with it" when he was told not to and TM lost his life as a result of that choice. The rest is one mans word, some flimsy evidence, against a dead man.

Yukari said...

"GZ also reported that the kid grabbed the gun- but that has been disproved by DNA"

I stumbled about this.

AFAIK it is true that Trayvon´s DNA has not been found on the gun, but wouldn´t that only mean there is *no DNA proof* of GZ´s account -not actually *disprove* it?

From what I read about DNA evidence in general on the True Justice for Meredith Kercher site, DNA transfer is not that easy.
In the Kercher case, even <>, Guede being the one attacker whose participation in the murder is not contested by anyone.
(Source: http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/dna_evidence_the_myths_start_to_come_crashing_down/)


TrishapatK said...

First of all, thank you to everyone for discussing this without being unkind. I really appreciate that ~mj, deejay and John are all being reasonable and explaining their thinking based upon what they've read. It is refreshing to see that no-one is resorting to ridiculing any one else's thoughts or conclusions.

To ~mj, regarding your last paragraph, it is true that if we back up to where GZ "stuck with it" and if he hadn't done that then this wouldn't have happened ... but a lot more happened afterwards that had even more bearing on the results. If any of what GZ is telling us is true, and if we want to use Mark McClish's analysis to confirm that it is probably true, then TM was very aggressive. If he hadn't been aggressive, "picked a fight" is how I put it, then this wouldn't have happened either.

I suppose there is culpability on both sides - but it's only GZ who is alive and who is being held responsible for his part. ( Sadly, TM paid an even greater price ) The thing is to get to the truth of what responisibility GZ bears. If it is that he shouldn't have "stuck with it" then he is guilty of that. I don't think he had any intention of hurting TM at that point.
If TM were alive it might be equally difficult to determine who did what and what the motives of each were. From what I can tell, GZ didn't have bad motives. He may have exercised some poor judgement and he did end up killing someone but there are lots of things joining those facts that he didn't control.
Again, thank you for actually having a real discussion about this. It's such a tragic case and nobody really wins in the end. Life can be so complicated and sad. I am glad that so many people still want our society to be one where we don't let evil triumph and where we want justice be served. More than that though, knowing that people want goodness and righteousness ( and kindness) to rule is always nice to see.

TrishapatK said...

@ Yukari - Thank you for your input.

According to the record there isn't any reason to expect DNA from Trayvon on the gun. If you read the transcript that Peter provided, GZ said that TM reached for the gun, he didn't say that he grabbed it. He said that he thought that TM saw the gun ( most likely TM's eyes went to the area where GZ's jacket had been inadvertently raised and the gun had just been exposed) and said " you're gonna die tonight, Motherf***er" , it was at that point that GZ quickly reached and grabbed the gun first and shot TM. So, according to GZ's account, TM didn't get to the gun so there woudn't be any DNA.
The link Peter provided is helpful. I am sure that there are other interviews, interrogations or whatever that aren't edited that would prove equally helpful. But the Mark McClish one is succinct and includes a link to another one.

Lis said...

Peter, it sure is nice to see the comments moderated again. I had a feeling it was all coming from one or two people. Of course, you're the one who knows *which* IP they come from, that must be kind of interesting.

Sus said...

As much as we don't want this to be about race, the sad fact is that it is.

Zimmerman noticed Trayvon Martin because he didn't think he belonged there. He didn't know TM. He had nothing to base that on but appearance.

And this is a fact of life for black men everyday in the United States. It's more about self worth than safety usually. Sadly this time it cost a life.

President Obama tried to point that out and was accused of bringing in racism.

I don't know the answer. I wish I did. Or that someone did.

Katie said...

I had no idea this case has turned into politics and well, all this. I have always thought that Zimmerman got spooked and pulled the trigger. I don't think he murdered him point blank, but he had a gun and he used it and I think he made up a story to justify what he did.

Katie said...

I just read the analysis by Mark McClish. This paragraph stands out for me:
"The dispatcher asked me for a description and the direction the suspect went. I told the dispatcher I did not know but I was out of my vehicle looking for a street sign + the direction the suspect went. The dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect + that an officer was in route. As I headed back to my vehicle the suspect emerged from the darkness and said 'You got a problem' I said 'No' the suspect said 'You do now.' As I looked and tried to find my phone to dial 911 the suspect punched me in the face. I fell backwards onto my back. The suspect got on top of me. I yelled 'Help' several times. The suspect told me 'Shut the fuck up' as I tried to sit up right, the suspect grabbed my head and slammed it into the concrete sidewalks several times. I continued to yell 'Help' each time I attempted to sit up, the suspect slammed my head into the sidewalk. My head felt like it was going to explode. I tried to slide out from under the suspect and continue to yell 'Help.'"

Mark McClish says "We would expect a person who was punched to mention feeling some pain. Zimmerman does this when he states that he felt his head was going to explode." I don't think someone saying their head feels like it is going to explode quite explains pain and it is emotionless. Maybe it felt like it was going to explode for a different reason, like anger. Also, Zimmerman says "as I tried to sit up right..." Sitting indicates tension and that would be expected in this case, but why was he trying to "sit up right" rather than hurriedly escape a violent encounter? He uses passive language many times too. I don't buy it.

Katie said...

I have one more comment. It is so disturbing the way these cases drag on forever or are buried and innocent people who discover remains are Kronked and politics enter and make it worse. I blame journalism for being part of the problem. Journalism used to be part of checks and balances in this country, but journalism in this country has changed. It is no longer the respectable, hard-hitting, truth-uncovering profession it once once. It used to be more than a profession, it was a cause. Now journalists can make money by selling stories about celebrities dating and what they wear. I suppose the availability of online news has taken away good paying journalism jobs and also the time to investigate. News is instant now without facts. People are afraid of government again. Where are our investigative journalists who uncover the truth and keep our country honest?

rob said...

I refuse to follow this case because it is so racialy baited. There will be no winner here.
In my opinion- George was over-zealous, but I don't believe he ever meant to kill anyone.
Trayvon shouldn't have ended up dead, but he was whipping George's azz, and George had a gun, most people at that point would have pulled it out. Just from what I have read, George is guilty of man-slauder.
George shouldn't have lied about the donation money. Travon's family should have put out the real pictures, not the 12 yr old kid ones.
Everything should be entered into evidence. First case I've seen where the defendant didn't get all the benefits and the victim, none.
This will never end well. It it being used as much more than it really is.

Excruciating Headache said...

I'm not clear on why people complain about the pictures Trayvon's family chose.

My son graduated from high school over the weekend and we had pictures of him from the time he was born until the present out during the party.

I guess it's easier for me to pick out pictures since my son is blonde haired, blue eyed and wears button down shirts and Sperry's. Wearing a hoodie was practically suicide for Trayvon Martin.

Anonymous said...

This case has certainly exposed those who have a mindset towards black people. According to these fearful people, Trayvon was black and wearing a hoodie, so he must be up to no good. Look at the disaster Zimmerman caused with that mentality.

rob said...

My point with the young pictures is, tell the real story, this was not a 12 yr old child that was killed. The facts are the facts.
And what's up with the hoodie? Did at some point GZ say "I shot him because he was wearing a hoodie" ? I am 52 and white, I wear hoodies all the time. Everyone in my family does.
I'm not trying to paint GZ as perfect and TM as imperfect. George hurt his credibility when he lied about the donations. The DA should be able to use that to show that he is a liar. But the defense should be able to use whatever they think will help George's case. I have heard things said in court, that there was absolutely no proof of, yet is was said. I didn't particularly like it, but it was allowed. Our justice system is based on everyone is treated equally. Even if TM is shown with his gold grill, pot-smoking, fighting... will it influence the jury? all of us have been young and had youngsters.
If I was the DA, I would let them say it, just so I could say, "did George know that when he shot him, did that make him deserve to die?'
Everyone is quick to call the other person a racist, without looking in the mirror.

Anonymous said...

"Isn't it possible that GZ was correct about his suspicions that TM was a potential problem?"

Anything's possible, but the problem lies in the words "suspicions" and "potential." There is no evidence that TM was breaking any laws.

"I don't think I have ever given my opinion on this case until now..."

LOL. We give our opinions in ways more than our explicit statements. You have given your opinion based on how you have chosen to cover it.

"I don't think"

Negative statement, "think" weakens the claim; we'd expect "I have not given my opinion..,"

"n't...ever" Is that like a "never"?

Buckley

Anonymous said...

"We have severe hatred against people of faith and conservatives and libertarians."

LOL again. How dare they claim prejudice but, btw, I'm a "poor victim" of prejudice and extreme hatred.

Buckley