Monday, May 13, 2013

Zahra Baker: Peter Hyatt Wrong Analysis


My analysis showed that not only was Elisa Baker deceptive, but so was Zahra's father, who's statements showed that he knew of his daughter's abuse, initially, and death.  

I concluded guilty knowledge.  

He was not charged.  


Elisa Baker speaks from prison about murder of 10-year-old Zahra

    HICKORY, N.C. — 
    For the first time on Wednesday night, Eyewitness News is hearing from the only person convicted in the murder of 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
Elisa Baker spoke from the Raleigh, N.C. Correctional Institution for Women only to Eyewitness News.
"I plead guilty to something I did not even do and it wasn't even a murder," said Baker.
Baker is now serving a minimum 25-year prison sentence and she agreed to talk with Eyewitness News.
Dressed in her prison uniform and wearing handcuffs, Baker talked with Eyewitness News for more than an hour about her stepdaughter Zahra.
"Zahra was a blessing. She brought a lot into my life," said Baker.
Baker showed Eyewitness News the tattoo she said Zahra picked out for her and talked about the time the two shared together before Zahra died in September of 2010.
Baker said Zahra had been sick that day with a stomach bug. 
When she went to check on her in her bedroom, Baker said her stepdaughter wasn't breathing.
"I didn't see her chest moving up and down. Automatically I got scared … started doing CPR," said Baker,  who said her biggest mistake was not calling 911.
Elisa Baker said instead of calling 911 she called her husband, and Zahra's father, Adam Baker.
She said she remembers their conversation when he got home.
"We need to go ahead and call 911. He said Lisa sit down. Take you some medicine. Calm down. I'll take care of it," said Elisa Baker.
Elisa Baker said Adam Baker walked around the yard and after several hours told her he wanted to go to Walmart to get out of the house, leaving Zahra behind in her bedroom.
It wasn't until the next afternoon she said Adam Baker got utensils and trash bags from the kitchen and then went into the bathroom and turned on the water, drowning out the sound of what she says he was doing.
Police said it was Elisa Baker who dismembered Zahra, but from prison, she blamed her husband.
She told Eyewitness News he asked her to help get rid of Zahra's body, and she demanded answers.
"At this point you need to tell me what you did, because I'm scared and I don't know what to do. And he said you are going to take your medicine and everything is going to be fine. I've got a plan," said Elisa Baker about Adam Baker.
Elisa Baker said that plan called for placing Zahra's remains at different locations in Caldwell County.
As each day passed, she says she struggled with whether to go to police, believing the dismemberment may have something to do with Adam Baker's culture in Australia.
"I thought it was maybe a strange ritual that he done. For all I know the Aborigines… I don't know. I regret not telling sooner. I regret not calling 911. But people do make mistakes," said Baker.
Eyewitness News showed police and prosecutors the entire jailhouse interview with Elisa Baker.
They told Eyewitness News they are very familiar with Elisa Baker's account of what happened, but they said the evidence in this case makes them confident that Adam Baker wasn't involved in his daughter's death or the disposal of her body.
Some of that evidence focused on the couple's cell phones.
On Sept. 25, Elisa Baker's phone pinged in the areas of Caldwell County where parts of Zahra's body were later found. 
Police said at that same time, Adam Baker's phone pinged in Conover, more than 20-miles away, where coworkers and others have said he was at work.
"Not only the physical evidence we were able to obtain using the phones, but the evidence we obtained from several different witnesses, that goes to support the statement that Adam gave us and goes to disprove the statement that Elisa gave us," said Major Clyde Deal of the Hickory Police.
Investigators admit at first they focused more on Adam Baker then Elisa Baker.
When they interviewed him, they found out he had been in and out of the house for more than two weeks and hadn't seen his own daughter and didn't know she was dead.
On October 15, 2010, just six days after Zahra was reported missing Adam Baker spoke with Eyewitness News for the first time.
At the time, reporter Dave Faherty asked Adam Baker what he thought happened to Zahra and Baker said he did not know.
Baker also said he did not know if his wife had had any involvement in the case.
Elisa Baker now says Adam Baker did know what happened to Zahra, but it was her decision to cooperate with police … leading them to Zahra's remains -- a decision to this day she said she does not regret.
"No, because I wanted her found and put like she was supposed to be," said Elisa Baker.
Eyewitness News asked Elisa Baker if she murdered Zahra and said she, "No, No. And they had no evidence of it ever being murder."
Several months after Elisa Baker's conviction, a hunter found a skull in the northern part of Caldwell County.
The medical examiner determined that skull to be Zahra's, but said there were no signs of trauma.
Elisa Baker hopes to use that evidence when she appeals her conviction.
Adam Baker was never charged in connection with Zahra's death, but he was in the country illegally and was deported back to Australia more than a year ago.
Adam Baker took Zahra's remains with him.

120 comments:

Calico said...

I still believe guilty knowledge for Adam Baker. He ignored the horrible things done his daughter in Elisa's care. Minimally he is of not protecting his daughter via neglect.

SA doesn't prove who did what or even when from what I understand, it does prove however, who knows what.

Peter - I don't agree your analysis was wrong.

Excruciating Headache said...

Regardless of whether or not Mr. Baker played a role in his daughter's death, I am really impressed that Peter followed up on this case.

I hate his politics, I sometimes disagree with his analysis, but I admire his tenacity and commitment to justice.

Thanks, Mr. Hyatt.

Apple said...

It amazes me how accurate and simple statement analysis is and how complicated, expensive, and unjust court cases can be.

Esther said...

Peter, I'm confused. Just because he wasn't charged doesn't mean he wasn't guilty, how does that make your analysis wrong?

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Anonymous said...

According to Elisa Baker, Peter was wrong in his analysis. That's what Peter is saying, tongue in cheek, not literally. Actually Peter was right on!


Mindy

Anonymous said...

Am I right Peter?

Mindy

Jeff said...

Adam Baker does have guilty knowledge, was involved in Zahra's death, and should be in jail.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jeff said...

P.S. to my post above - and Elisa Baker should remain in prison for life. Here is another worthless piece of garbage who is 'speaking out' from jail to proclaim supposed 'innocense.'

Jeff said...

er, 'innocence.'

Dee said...

Anonymous said...
According to Elisa Baker, Peter was wrong in his analysis. That's what Peter is saying, tongue in cheek, not literally. Actually Peter was right on!

Mindy
***********

Mindy, I agree. The Hickory Police Dept is also implying Peter's analysis was wrong according to the below statement. Yet they state Baker hadn't seen his daughter in two weeks and didn't know she was dead. What's wrong with this picture? All his pinging phone proves is that he was smarter than Elisa and made sure she took total blame by establishing an alibi at work while Elisa was disposing of the remains...


Police said at that same time, Adam Baker's phone pinged in Conover, more than 20-miles away, where coworkers and others have said he was at work. "Not only the physical evidence we were able to obtain using the phones, but the evidence we obtained from several different witnesses, that goes to support the statement that Adam gave us and goes to disprove the statement that Elisa gave us," said Major Clyde Deal of the Hickory Police. Investigators admit at first they focused more on Adam Baker then Elisa Baker. When they interviewed him, they found out he had been in and out of the house for more than two weeks and hadn't seen his own daughter and didn't know she was dead.

**************

Eyewitness News asked Elisa Baker if she murdered Zahra and said she, "No, No. And they had no evidence of it ever being murder."

It's an unreliable denial. It's sensitive repeating "no". Elisa does not say she didn't kill Zahra, she says they have no evidence it was murder.

Peter's analysis was right on the money. Adam has guilty knowledge.

QChick said...

They are both guilty. I dont believe that Zahra died "accidently" from a stomach bug for one minute. Pretend that her statements are true, what parent says dont call 911 and lets chop her up and hide her around. And who goes along with that? Maybe cultural, like aborigines (sp?) ?! What! Boy,this article sure struck a nerve with me.

QChick said...

OT

From CNN article about Castro brothers interview..This is Onil..

"I hope he rots in that jail," he said. "I don't even want them to take his life like that. I want him to suffer in that jail to the last extent. I don't care if they even feed him. What he has done to my life and my family's."


The last sentence shows he is putting what has happened to him in front of what happened to the girls. In other statements, he does express his sorrow and anger at what his brother did...but when speaking of how Ariel should suffer, it is in relation to what has been done to him and then the family.

Sus said...

Let's think...
Adam Baker was at work while Eliza Baker disposed of the body.

Jeremy Irwin was at work while Debbie Bradley was home when their daughter Lisa went missing.

Billy Jean Dunn was at work, Shawn Adkins at home, and Hailey Dunn was murdered and disposed of.

Isabel Celis's mother was at work when Isabel's father first reported her missing.

The list goes on...
Work makes a convenient alibi. It does not rule out guilty knowledge.

Excruciating Headache said...

"Guilty knowledge" of a crime doesn't mean one is responsible for the crime.

john said...

Transcript of Adam Baker's 911 Call

DISPATCHER: 911 what is your emergency?

ADAM BAKER: Ah.. yeah my daughter is missing.

DISPATCHER: I'm sorry? Your daughter…


ADAM BAKER: My daughter is missing.(No name given,distancing)

DISPATCHER: Your daughter is missing.

DISPATCHER: What is your address?

ADAM BAKER: 21 21st Ave. Northwest.

ADAM BAKER: The police were out here last night. They found a ransom note for my bosses daughter… um… I GOT UP A LITTLE WHILE AGO...AND IT APPEARS THEY TOOK MY DAUGHTER INSTEAD OF MY BOSS'S DAUGHTER.

DISPATCHER: How old is your daughter?

ADAM BAKER: She is 10. She's handicapped.. she has a prosthetic leg… so that…

DISPATCHER: How long has seen been missing?

ADAM BAKER: Ummm. WE checked in there last night about 2:30 and she was there... and all this happened last night around 5 ...so I don't know if they set a fire in the yard to distract us to go out and then they snuck in the door... or.. I don't know.

DISPATCHER: I am not familiar with what happened last night... what happened last night?

ADAM BAKER: OK. Last night...WE woke up.. my dog woke ME up and I HAD A FIRE in the back yard and somebody had poured gas in my company vehicle I drive to work. They left a ransom note on my company vehicle to my boss saying they had his daughter and his son was next.

ADAM BAKER: And his daughter is fine. His daughter came with him last night when I called him. And uh, It APPEARS they may have taken my daughter instead of his daughter.(THIS IS THE SECOND TIME HE SAYS THIS,MAKING IT SENSITIVE.)

DISPATCHER: OK, Do you know who this was?

ADAM BAKER: I don't know who... No... no ma'am..

DISPATCHER: Do you know any idea why they were threatening to take his daughter?

ADAM BAKER: I don't know.

DISPATCHER: What is your name?

ADAM BAKER: My name is Adam Baker.

DISPATCHER: Phone number?

ADAM BAKER: 962-xxxx

DISPATCHER: OK, so.. No one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning...? [It is now after 2 pm that day]

ADAM BAKER: No.. like I said we, uh, had all that drama last night and WE... ME AND MY WIFE went back to bed. AND MY DAUGHTER IS THINKS COMING INTO PUBERTY.. cause she is hitting that brooding stage (laughter) so we only see her when she comes out when she wants something. And that's about it.

DISPATCHER: And you say she is handicapped..?

ADAM BAKER: Yes ma'am.. she has an above the knee amputation.

DISPATCHER: OK, she has one leg and it is partially amputated?

ADAM BAKER: Yes, she has a prosthetic leg that they APPARENTLY have taken with them.

DISPATCHER: So... Prosthetic leg was taken with her?

ADAM BAKER: Yes ma'am..

DISPATCHER: OK. And you don't have any idea at all...

ADAM BAKER: Like I said it was it was all addressed to him and it was all taken out on him and.. I guess.. they thought he lived in this house...

DISPATCHER: OK.. ok.. did you talk to your boss about it?

ADAM BAKER: Um... I have just spoken to him and he umm TOLD me to do... and he's going to be here shortly....

DISPATCHER: OK.. do you think that he knows?

ADAM BAKER: Umm.. we had an officer out here last night and he ran through who he thought it may have been like an ex-employee or something..

DISPATCHER: OK and you said 21 25th Ave. Northwest?

ADAM BAKER: 21 21st Ave.

DISPATCHER: OK.. 21 21st ave.

DISPATCHER: OK.. Hold on just a sec.

ADAM BAKER: OK. Thank you

[Silence...]

DISPATCHER: OK... I see it now. I wasn't finding the call.. OK.

ADAM BAKER: It was officer .. [unintelligible]

DISPATCHER: Ok, we are getting the police out there.. if you find out anything at all in the meantime before we get the officer out there call me back and it would help us as far as finding your daughter.

ADAM BAKER: Ok. Thank you ma'am

Lis said...

Peter, you are being facetious!

Anonymous said...

They are both guilty of Zahras' murder, dismemberment and disposal; and true to form, liars blaming each other.

Just for openers, there is no way daddy Adam could have been in and out of the house for two weeks without realizing Zahra was dead, inasmuch as he would have smelled the putrid decomposition odor before he even opened the front door. It is unbelievable that LE let this murderer slip through their fingers only because they could prove he was at work and his cell ph pinged in different areas; when there were plenty of other times when he wasn't at work.

Adam Baker had way more than just guilty knowledge. He was involved as well as Elisa was in Zaharas' gruesome murder. Two VERY SICK and disgusting individuals from hell who had an innocent, helpless, incapicitated child at their mercy and disposal whom they slowly and brutally tortured and murdered in the most cruel unthinkable ways, too horrible for the human mind to imagine.

They will suffer the tortures of the damned in hell for what they did to this precious child.

Shelley said...

I also dont agree that she died of a stomach bug. She may have been sick for days and no one cared for her and she died for other reasons. But kids dont just die from a stomach bug.

Also Elise's own children said she is evil. Now whe is trying to portray a loving step mother....

Please. No one is buying it Elise. Rot in jail.

But Adam also should be in jail.

Both are guitly of neglect. And both were involved.

I have a step son. And I can tell you right now, if he died on my watch, I would call 911 no matter what.

And if my husband also discovered the body.... and wanted to just cut up the body instead, I would be out of that house in seconds and calling 911 on him!

No sane person cuts up a persons body. No loving parent would ever even be able to fathom doing that to their child.

Adam is just as guilty.

I wish someone would wake up and charge him too.

He did not make any effort to look for that child and even when she was still supposedly "missing" and he had to move out of his place, he left most of her belongings behind in her room. NO parent does that. I struggle just to get rid of my sons clothes he grows out of. Much less if he was missing would i be able to part with anything of his.

Adam knew that poor Zahra was not alive.

And he clearly was not upset.

Get him back in the US And press charges on him too!


Anonymous said...

Adam Baker was here illegally. Elisa had this on him since the marriage itself was illegal. She mentions taking her "pills" more than once. Her "pills" are sensitive to her. What type of pills could she have been taking? Pain pills? Psych meds? What is she intending to imply? Manipulative desperation.

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Anonymous said...

Shelly, you and others who either don't know or don't remember, would have to go back and read Peters' articles and the many other stories that detailed Zahras' cruel treatment at the hands of Elisa and her father for a long period of time before they finally killed and butchered her.

It is a horrendous story of the demented evil treatment and murder of a little handicapped neglected child who had previously had cancer as a toddler, which left her with only partial hearing and an amputated leg.

It is one of the most cruel stories you will ever read. This is a child who cried many tears that went unheard. It still bothers me how this child who could only hobble when her prostetic leg was taken away from her (which it frequently was); was treated mercilessly by her step-mother, including having food withheld from her, was forced to lie on a filthy mattress on the floor, with her own father right there in the house, either participating in or allowing Elisa's doped up cruel treatment of his daughter; all this while their dopped up male friends were allowed in helpless Zahras' room to do with as they pleased. She had no help and no escape from any of them.

God only knows how long and cruel she was tortured before she finally died. I hope some day to meet little Zahra in the heavenlies, just to be able to give her a hug.

Hobnob said...

"I plead guilty to something I did not even do and it wasn't even a murder," said Baker.
rather than tell us what it wasn't tell us what it was,

"I didn't see her chest moving up and down. Automatically I got scared … started doing CPR," said Baker, who said her biggest mistake was not calling 911.
Spot the dropped pronoun.
She doesn't tell us she did CPR so we can't say it for her.

Deception through and through.
Parental instinct is to call 911 especially if a child is involved, so why didn't she do what every normal parent does?
She didn't because it would mean awkward questions being asked and incriminating conclusions being made.

She doesn't explain the fire or the fake ransom note, instead she blames it all on adam.

He is involved either in the death or the death and disposal or the death, disposal and coverup.

His claim he hadn't seen her for 2 weeks is risible and along with his disparaging comment about puberty and sulky indicate he knew what had happened and was involved in some way.

Eliza was involved in the disposal as she knew where the remains were and cell pings place her there.
What cannot be blamed solely on her is dismemberment etc.

I was appalled they let adam run back to Australia. They need to extradite his ass back to the states and give him LWOP.

Hobnob said...

off topic

Tia Sharp's "shattered" father has called for Stuart Hazell to be hanged after he finally admitted killing his daughter.

Steven Carter's comments came after a dramatic turn of events at the Old Bailey, during which Hazell said the 12-year-old's family had "suffered enough" and changed his plea to guilty.

Hazell, 37, had originally denied killing the schoolgirl and hiding her body in the loft of the home he shared with her grandmother in New Addington, south London.

"He did not want to put (the family) through any further stages of this trial or this process," Lord Carlile QC, defending, said.

Hazell had been expected to be sentenced on Monday but the judge adjourned proceedings.

Prosecutors argued he should receive a jail term of at least 30 years, while Lord Carlile said Hazell accepted he would spend "decades and decades" in prison.

However, speaking outside court, Mr Carter said: "In my opinion it will not be enough. He should serve his time and be hung (sic).

"I do not see today's events as justice for Tia - merely a legal conviction."

In a victim statement, Tia's mother, Natalie Sharp, said: "I've lost my trust in everyone. It's hard for me to imagine she's really gone."

She said she has "so many questions" for Hazell, adding: "Sometimes I feel pity. Sometimes I want to hurt him."

In his statement, Mr Carter said his heart had been "shattered" by his daughter's death.

"My last memory of Tia is her jumping into my arms, giving me a kiss and her telling me she loved me," he said.

"I will never get this opportunity again, but it is one of the many memories I will cherish for the rest of my life."

Tia's body, which the prosecution said was "carefully wrapped" in a sheet and bin bags, was found a week after she went missing in August last year.

Jurors heard Hazell's semen was found on her bed and on her night clothes, while her blood was found on the belt Hazell was wearing when he was arrested.

Tia's disappearance sparked searches by police and members of the public but her body was missed during initial searches of the loft.

Hazell - who has previous convictions for drug dealing, burglary, theft, racially aggravated common assault and possession of a machete in a public place - joined the search.

In a television interview filmed at the time, he claimed he was "playing the role of bereaved grandparent".

His change of plea came after four days of graphic evidence, including a photograph allegedly of Tia after she died.

Mrs Sharp frequently had to leave the courtroom, visibly distressed.

Hobnob said...

During the trial, the jury was shown a letter Hazell wrote to his father from Belmarsh Prison, begging for forgiveness.

He said he was not a "bad person" and added: "One mistake and my whole world has collapsed. My fault, I know."

DCI Nick Scola, senior investigation officer of the Homicide and Serious Crime Command, said: "The evidence was overwhelming and clearly Hazell realised he had no choice but to plead guilty.

"However, he put Tia's family through a week of heart-breaking evidence in court and I wish for their sakes he had admitted his guilt sooner.

"Hazell is an extremely dangerous individual who poses a significant threat to young girls and it is only right that he should be imprisoned and removed from society so that he can no longer pose any risk."

The judge, Mr Justice Nicol, adjourned sentencing to consider mitigating statements from Lord Carlile, who told the court Hazel "probably did" love Tia.

Pleading guilty was "possibly the first brave decision of his life", Lord Carlile said, adding that every day of his sentence will be a punishment and he will be in "constant danger".

More details about Hazell's life emerged on what would have been the fifth day of his trial.

His mother was a prostitute and he was first convicted of a crime at the age of 14.

He also claims to have been raped in a homeless hostel when he was 16 and has a history of depression, self harm and suicide attempts.

Hazell, who turns 38 later this month, is due to be sentenced at 10.30am on Tuesday.

http://news.sky.com/story/1090255/tia-sharp-murder-stuart-hazell-pleads-guilty

Lis said...

OT
re: Leila Fowler, statements of the brother's bio mom:

"On Friday, as speculation in the community built that perhaps the boy was involved, his biological mother told Sacramento television station KOVR her son 'could never hurt his sister.'"

-"could never 'hurt'

"'I've never seen him be mean to her,' Priscilla Rodriquez told the TV station Friday."

-she's "never seen him be mean to her" - it does not mean she is not aware that he has been 'mean' to her, just that she's not 'seen' him doing it.

I think the bio mom knew that he was at fault right away.

I take it they were half-siblings? Does anyone know how long they had been together as a family?

john said...

It wasn't until the next afternoon she said Adam Baker got utensils and trash bags from the kitchen and then went into the "BATHROOM" and turned on the "WATER", "DROWNING" out the sound of what she says he was doing.

Anonymous said...

This is one of the most horrific cases of abuse/murder. I felt sick when I found out Adam Baker was allowed to go back to his own country FREE. I hope he is well known for what he is over there and that people look at him with contempt and disgust.
It is hard to even think of this case without getting upset. If there was EVER a reason for the death penalty this case was it.

Anne said...

This is one of the most horrific cases of abuse/murder. I felt sick when I found out Adam Baker was allowed to go back to his own country FREE. I hope he is well known for what he is over there and that people look at him with contempt and disgust.
It is hard to even think of this case without getting upset. If there was EVER a reason for the death penalty this case was it.
I meant to put my name on this!
God this case makes me so mad!

Pineapple said...

How were YOU wrong, Peter? I still don't see how he was not guilty/innocent. Just b/c he wasn't charged, doesn't mean your analysis was wrong.
Remember Crazy Anthony?

Anne said...

I know LE uses statement analysis, after LE heard the sensitivity in the 911 call, I can't understand how anyone, let alone LE could think Adam Baker was innocent.
He had the strangest demeanor during interviews, soft spoken and timid acting. I remember I would stop what I was doing and walk over to see the tv when he was speaking.

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john said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hobnob said...

Statements can indicate truth or deception.

A trial can indicate truth or deception from some, all or none of those involved.

We cannot however force a prosecutor or a juror to use logic, rational thinking, common sense or anything else to come to a decision as to innocence or guilt.

In the casey anthony case the evidence was overwhelming, even jurors said they knew she did it but the state didn't prove it (if they knew she did then the state had at some point proved it's case)

When it boils down to it, is the reasoning of a prosecutor or juror based on truth and justice for the victim(s) or based on fame, book deals or anything else of importance and value to the person.

It can even be they are fed up with how long the trial has taken, they dislike the rules and they just want out of there.
Guilty means more time spent in court, not guilty means getting home.

I can only hope that the pinellas jury are never in a situation where they have to suffer the loss of a loved one and then watch the jury clear the killer despite the overwhelming evidence of guilt.

I also hope one day double jeopardy is abolished, that new evidence such as a confession, forensic evidence and witnesses is enough to warrant a new trial.
What is good for the defence where they can appeal should also be the same for a prosecutor.
Where evidence is simply so overwhelming of guilt yet the defendant is cleared perhaps even on a whim because the juror wants to make a statement.

What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.

john said...

Zahra Baker: Peter Hyatt Wrong Analysis

My analysis showed that not only was Elisa Baker deceptive, but so was Zahra's father, who's statements showed that he knew of his daughter's abuse, initially, and death.
I concluded guilty knowledge.

He was not charged.

.............................

I maybe way off,here goes anyway.

Peter you don't actually say "YOU" got the analysis wrong.

You wrote:

"Peter Hyatt Wrong Analysis"

You talk about yourself in the third person,distancing/detatching yourself from your statement..

Is this because you don't believe you got it wrong?


Outraged! said...

It infuriates me to know that Adam Baker, who I believe had absolute knowledge in Zahar's death/And involvement of murder/disposal of remains, is walking free in his home country where he can never be tried for this on American soil.
He lied and was deceptive from the start. He never cared about his daughter and KNEW she was being mistreated by this real life "wicked step-mother". Her case of cruelty, abuse and neglect is gut wrenching. I believe she suffered a horrendous life even before her death. The accounts of witness statements on how wicked step mother beat/struck and belittled Zahara is proof enough this little girl suffered. At the hands of her father he rid her like trash. I demand he be held accountable.
Police let him go b/c it was easier to prosecute the one that finally caved, "step-mom". LE gave up and as long as they had someone behind bars that's all that mattered to appease the public.

I hope her mother never stops looking for answers, and one day he too, will be behind bars where he belongs.

Has anyone heard his 911 call? Sounded just like the other crock-a-garbage the "others" have made. When I say "others" there are too many lying parents out there to mention by name anymore.

Excruciating Headache said...

Jesus, people. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar. (Freud, look it up)

Sometimes law enforcement has more evidence than it releases to the public.

If Zahra's father was in anyway responsible for her death, they would have gone after him. But they didn't.

Always look at step-parents. Look at the rest of the animal kingdom. Male lions kill cubs that aren't theirs. Humans are more likely to kill children that aren't theirs. Sad, but true. Look at the research. There are plenty of broken families out there.

BTW, Peter is a grown up and doesn't have to be right 100% of the time. He's good, but not perfect. He questioned his analysis in this case. Why do you think you know better?

Question everything. Learn alot. Your life will be more meaningful because of your effort. Others lives might, too.

Anonymous said...

Excruciating Headache - get off your high horse. You are definitely annoying to say the least. Nobody is saying anything negative about Peter on this except you.

Your rants sound like a school girl in need of some attention. You're not the hero on this page nor the police. I find your rants obnoxious!

Anonymous said...

Excruciating Headache who knows EVERYTHING, Adam Baker & Elisa Baker killed and dismembered Zahara together.

Peter's SA was right on~

Anne said...

How does everyone know which part of Peter's SA he is saying is wrong.
IF he is saying he is wrong, Elisa's statements from jail did not change my view(that I believe both Adam and Elisa to be involved), I must be missing something.
I am going back and to read it again. . .

Anonymous said...

Speak more, Excruciating Headhache, I love reading your posts!

"You're not the police!"
"It's not your page!"

LOLOLOL @ the anon who said that to Excruciating Headache! I saw no claims of such, did you? Peter is a big boy, he can take some criticism, if what CH posted can even be called that.

Good grief. LOLcat at some fools.

Btw Hobnob,
per your analysis on the Casey Anthony jury, I believe the jurors said they *thought* she did it, not *knew*; that makes a complete difference. They *thought* but didn't feel the state adequately proved it. I may think zebras are pink but if it can't be adequately proven, I cannot convict one of being purple. You can think someone is guilty of a crime, you can feel someone is guilty of a crime but goodness, please don't convict unless you feel the state proved its burden.

It is an important distinction to make, particularly on a Statement Analysis blog.

Best regards :-)

Anonymous said...

Oh. Dear. Lord. Once upon a time I respected you, Excruciating Headache. Erroneously. No more. YOU are dumber than a flintrock if you believe this bio-father would not turn his helpless daughter over to an evil step-mother, or simply a live in beddie-bye partner to be abused at her liesure; including with HIS participation in the cruelty.

This has nothing to do with Peters' earlier statement analysis; this has to do with THE FACTS. Obviously, you never read any of the history of the evidence of the abuse and the witnesses who spoke out against Adam Baker and the way both HE and Elisa treated this helpless child, from the day Zahra was reported missing, that went back for MONTHS (and years) before the child died. You should dig into the FACTS before you open your mouth or put your hands on your keyboard and make a fool of yourself.

You seem not to believe that a bio father would abuse his own daughter right along with the evil woman he has turned his helpless child over too. Oh My God. Where have you been!! There are SO many children being put in these horribgle positions of abuse and torment right now as we speak.

The incidences of these evil abuses, torture and murder of the children of some of these low-life fathers and their crazy woman is as unbelievable as you are for making the twisted post you made above. Stupid stupid stupid woman. Dear God. It is stupid people LIKE YOU who help to excuse these child abusers and murders. No wonder you have an excruciating headache. Something is wrong with you.

Shelley said...

I think, as always.... that Peter is testing something.

He of all people is VERY aware of the words he has chosen.

I am sure what he said was said for a reason exactly as he wrote it.



I will just be waiting to see if we find out or if he is just doing research.

But either way, I love this blog love SA and I especially love that Peter does it all with true compassion for the victims.

Anonymous said...


Anon @ 5:37 on May 13, 2013 said:
"You seem not to believe that a bio father would abuse his own daughter.... Stupid stupid stupid woman. Dear God. It is stupid people LIKE YOU who help to excuse these child abusers and murders."


You said this of poster 'Excruciating Headache'. First, Excruciating Headache not once said that a biological parent can't perpetrate awful acts against their child, she said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar..."; let's stop extending her assessment of one case to EVERY case.

Secondly, brava at your astute powers of observation in placing blame correctly. Certainly it is people "just like" EH that are the reason child abuse exists, better lock her up now to save the planet.


Thirdly, thank you for your impressively mature labeling of EH. What a banal rendering of an insult. Thesaurus, anyone? Manners, anyone?


~EH fan~

Anonymous said...

P.S.... Big Headache; you are slamming Peters' Statement Analysis of Adam Baker when Peter was right from the beginning, starting with his analysis of deception in Adam Bakers' 911 call on the day he reported Zahra missing, and continuously PROVED Adam Bakers' deception throughout the investigation of both Adam and Elisa Baker. I KNOW, I was right here reading it, AND looking into the evidence and witnesses statements of Zahras' abuses by BOTH Adam and Elisa Baker, as well as proof of their drug usage and drug buddies they allowed into Zahras' room and the filthy mattress she was forced to lie on, on the filthy floor.

Too bad you didn't know the facts. Too bad now, you'd rather slam Peter than check out the facts yourself before making such a false accusation. Nobody ever said that Peter is right in each and ever little i he dots or t that he crosses; not even Peter himself makes such a claim; but he most assuredly WAS right in this one. Take it or leave it, dummy.

TrishapatK said...

My analysis showed that not only was Elisa Baker deceptive, but so was Zahra's father, who's statements showed that he knew of his daughter's abuse, initially, and death.
I concluded guilty knowledge.

He was not charged

I don't think that the "title" of this post matched the little synopsis under it.
Peter's analysis showed deception and he concluded guilty knowledge but the man was not charged. So what. That does not mean Peter was wrong, it means the man was not charged.

And the fact that the man was not charged does not mean that he is not guilty or that he does not have guilty knowledge, it just means he wasn't charged.

He could still be guilty. Guilt is a fact whether it is revealed, discovered or hidden. If a person committed the crime they are guilty. (Casey Anthony is an obvious example.)

I think Peter is playin' with us to see if we pick up on the incongruity between the title and the paragraph written below it. And I don't think Peter is wrong about what he determined. I don't think that he thinks he is wrong either.


TrishapatK said...

I should have made it clear that I cut and pasted the beginning of Peter's article at the beginning of my post. Sorry ... I don't know how to fix it.

Peter Hyatt said...

Adam Baker was deceptive.
Adam Baker showed guilty knowledge of his daughter's death.
Adam Baker disparaged the victim.

Adam Baker should have been charged.

Peter

john said...

:)

Good lesson Peter.

Anonymous said...

Okay Headache, I apologize for calling you stupid and a dummy. I shouldn't have. I could have made my point some other way. I'm sorry.

ecossie possie said...

Excruciating Headache said...
Regardless of whether or not Mr. Baker played a role in his daughter's death, I am really impressed that Peter followed up on this case.

I hate his politics, I sometimes disagree with his analysis, but I admire his tenacity and commitment to justice.

Thanks, Mr. Hyatt.


How can you hate someones politics?
Peter has never profeses to be a polititian right laeft or middle.

Nor has he even expressed his political leanings.

As he is no polititian how can you hate his politics?
You could profess to hate a private citizens political beleifs or veiws .

But not there politics because we only vote we dont legistate we dont have any power to develop policys or create new ones .

To do so you need to be a polititian.

You could hate Nixons politics or Carters Obamas but to use langauge as you do is iltterly

Not Politicly Corect.

ecossie possie said...

The fake kiddnapp note involveing his boss an the nochalance he showed on the 911 call.

Even laughing???Disspariging his Daughter who was allegedly missing.
A dismeberment doesnt happen in a home with two ocupants.

Without both haveing knowlage .
Correction Three ocupants .Although the thirs was Zahra.

Of course he knew but was smart enough to keep his lipz zipped.
Knowing Elisa would slit her own throat by spewing all sort of crazy stuff.

You cant use a co defendants testomany against someone in a murder without.

Either a second independant coroberating wittness.
Or some independant forensics corroberating there allegations.


An he got lucky obviously none of his dna was found in any incriminating circumstances.

He just had to play the dumbest man in the world.
Not realy to hard an ask for him an he walked on murder

Anonymous said...

@Ecosie

LOL You can hate one's politics without being a politician. Geesh people, good grief! What insanity.

Excruciating Headache, I'm sorry you don't suffer from "sit at the feet of Peter and hang on every word he says" and instead view him as someone who has knowledge to share and is imperfect, with view points you disagree with. Maybe someone can pass you some more Kool-Aid until they Jim Jones or "Peter Hyatt" you.

Peter's politics are clear to anyone who can read, even to a 'Casey Anthony jury', as it seems some would be quick to say around here. (And I believe the Casey Anthony jury got it right, even though I am quite sure she is guilty; the state dropped the ball; whether I think zebra's are pink is irrelevant; the state needed to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.)


Excruciating Headache hasn't said anything negative against Peter, the pack of hyenas can back off; there's nothing dead here and no blood coming. Peter would call them off but he likes it too much, the fan fare gets to his head which is already quite large it seems.


~Excruciating Headache fan~

Jo said...

DISPATCHER: OK.. ok.. did you talk to your boss about it?

ADAM BAKER: Um... I have just spoken to him and he umm TOLD me to do... and he's going to be here shortly....


He found his daughter is missing so he called his boss first and then called 911. He is more focused on his boss and his boss's daughter than his own daughter.

shmi said...

Peter,
I don't think your article proves your statement analysis was wrong.

What am I missing?

I should read the comments to see if you have already responded.

Lemon said...

"Zahra Baker: Peter Hyatt Wrong Analysis"

A careful reading shows Peter doesn't say his analysis is wrong. Also, he doesn't take possession of it, as in Peter Hyatt's Wrong Analysis.

It is interesting to see the comments of those who are more anti-Hyatt than pro-statement analysis. Wheat from the chaff, and all that. :)

Anonymous said...

Lemon, could you please give an example of anti - Hyatt rhetoric in this thread? I struggle trying to grasp the disagreement = bashing mentality that erupts in the comments. I saw Excruciating Headache disagree but not bash. I then saw people bash EH. Yet people want to rush into to Peter's defense against any perceived wrong. Wheat from chaff? Really? He's not Christ. Before anyone gets their panties twisted, I have a ton of respect for Peter. I am a conservative Christian and as such, even embrace his political views. I wish we could have adult discussion, complete with disagreement in the comments. A wise Pastor once told me though, "always love people and treat them well, but remember, even sheep bite."

~ABC said...

ecossie possie said....
You could hate Nixons politics or Carters Obamas but to use langauge as you do is iltterly

lol.... LOL..... ohhhhh ecossie possie I love ya! but... does "iltterly" translate to illiterate? Is that what you're trying to say?!? :D

Rick said...

OT: Stuart Hazell has pled guilty:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hWn-75lewe92i0Qoq-hWR7fjIF1w?docId=CNG.84d22321f3137453dfafc98cdc2ab12e.121

Anonymous said...

So disagreeing with Peter even daring to call him wrong, if someone did, is "separating wheat from chaff"? Interesting perspective. I'd call that one of a zealot, and not in any positive way. What cruelty and ridiculousness, no wonder people regularly state their hesitance in posting. I understand and even admire the loyalty to Peter but my godness, why the need for right-out attacks on people, not the positions they are stating? What does that say of a person's character? Trolls are waived a finger at but regular posters go for blood, even at other regular posters (at anons is also inexecusable) and this is applauded and laughed at? Repeatedly? And ignored bt Peter but he will address his posters responding to trolls? Use some common decency, if not the moral integrity you claim to live by. Peter makes many astute observations but he also neglects a wealth of others because SA as a whole does.

The perponderance of evidence has not been on SA. Look at the number of cases withou actual proof of what happened that are used as proof for SA's accuracy and veracity. I will say that likely SA is right in these cases but it is nowhere close to a proven science and when held up to even basic principles of linguistics and memory/brain function recall, holes by the dozens can be punched thru it so as to sink SA as less than charlatan's work. I am offering a counterside to SA, I am not saying it is completely without metit. Couple this with Peter's lack of knowledge of lingustics, his clear narrow-minded focus that often muddies his view, his high-horse attiude and you get someone you don't won't on the stand or to introduce as your main expert. Karen's spirit and approach is much more welcoming, Peter could stand to learn a lot. Look how even John pretends to lower himself to look better and be accepted in the eyes of Peter. It is sickening. Peter has a Jesus complex and it's sad bc it causes so much of what he says to get lost and prevents him from learning so much more.

Anonymous said...

OT: Leils Fowler's 12 yo brother has been charged with her murder.

I can't figure out why a male - not her father has her name Tattooed on his arm, it looks fresh the photo says it was taken 4/30/13 - is this an older relative that suddenly got tattooed - memorial I guess - or is this a large sized 12 yo ? Hard to conclude if you ask me, take a look:

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/2155075

Anonymous said...

Where is coughing? Sure miss their posts.

Deejay said...

Excruciating Headache- This is a statement analysis site. These personal attacks are unwarranted. I enjoy your posts.

Rude anon- I do not think your attacks are appropriate here.

Julie Moon said...

Does anyone believe that maybe, just maybe, Zahra passed away from illness and one of the following happened: Eliza freaked out because she really was kind of neglectful and by the time she discovered Zahra's body she had been dead quite some time (like way too long). Or Eliza and Adam were scared that they would be in big trouble for neglect because Zahra had been ill for some time and they had not gotten any care for her. Or Adam thought he had to bury her himself because he did not want to get caught by authorities for being in country illegally?

I don't think that the hiding had to do with Adam worrying about being discovered in country, or else he would have never reported her missing. What was it that prompted them to report her missing, anyway? No schools or social services were looking for Zahra anymore, they had all dropped the ball. Were they hoping for a Sindy Anthony windfall?

Either Adam was the worst $#ite of a neglectful pos father and the dumbest man on the planet, or he knew. And more than likely he was an abuser and maybe THAT is why they had to hide the body?

my opinion only & i reserve the right to be wrong ;)

Anonymous said...

Actually EH said and I quote: Jeez People - which means he was speaking to a general audience, "us" on this blog, so we spoke back. For his "fans" if we respond we are attacking? I don't think so.

When you address your comments to "people" be prepared for the "people" to respond.

Anonymous said...

Excruciating headache is not attacking; I am not being rude.
Read Lemon's post for an example of both.
TY for telling us what has a place here.

Anonymous said...

I didnt say people coukdnt or cant or shouldnt respond, I was addressing the way they responded, such as Lemon. That works both ways.
I am being silly here in my response so I apologize.

Lemon said...

Somebody needs a hug.

Riley said...

@ Lemon I agree. Seems like there are more and more on here lately that are anti-Peter~

I cannot figure out why anyone would visit and post on a a site they disagreed with, AND continue to come back regularly. I follow Peter's blog b/c I believe in SA, I like him and I trust him. From what I read Peter is humble with a true passion for justice.

Some of the followers on here seem to be more oppositional defiant with a flare for causing disruptions.

Peter welcomes it when we challenge

Riley said...

@ ecossie possie: You are absolutely right - Peter has ever professed to be a politician nor does he discuss politics here.

I think what EH is referring to is Peter's Christian views. EH doesn't like them so he equated them to "politics" which is ridiculous.

In no way has this blog ever been a political rant.

ME said...

I agree 100*%! But""**** fix The twig twaggle agile pinky ywinkled????

ME said...

I agree 100*%! But""**** fix The twig twaggle agile pinky ywinkled????

john said...

Anon 11:17 Said.

Look how even John pretends to lower himself to look better and be accepted in the eyes of Peter.
...................................

Where have i pretended to lower myself to Peter??

If being polite and respectful to Peter, members and Anons is a flaw in my character,then i will accept that all day.

Thank you. :)



Anonymous said...

I can't tell, did they murder her and then chop her up or did she die of neglect and then they chopped her up. Seems to me if somebody has it in them to chop up murder likely poreceeded. surely either calls for life in prison -- but I can't tell which is the actualy crime here...

john said...

OT..

OJ Simpson Requests New Armed Robbery Trial.


The ex-football star is back in court claiming his lawyer did not represent him properly in 2008 and he should have a new trial.8:14pm UK, Monday 13 May 2013
Simpson is serving up to 33 years for his robbery and kidnapping conviction

By Sky News US Team
OJ Simpson was back in a Las Vegas courtroom to ask for a new trial in the armed robbery-kidnapping case that sent him to prison in 2008.

The former football star and a new set of lawyers hope to convince a judge that trial lawyer Yale Galanter had conflicted interests and should not have handled Simpson's case.


Simpson arrives in a Las Vegas courtroom
Simpson says Mr Galanter knew ahead of time about his plan to retrieve what he thought were personal mementos from two sports memorabilia dealers at a casino hotel room in September 2007.

Simpson also said his former lawyer never told him a plea deal was on the table.

Simpson, who is serving nine to 33 years in a Nevada prison, is due to testify on Wednesday during the five-day proceedings.

Mr Galanter is scheduled to testify on Friday. He has declined to comment before then.

Simpson's lawyers claim Mr Galanter had a personal interest in preventing himself from being identified as a witness to the crimes and misled Simpson so much that the former football star deserves a new trial.

Clark County District Court Judge Linda Marie Bell has agreed to hear 19 of the 22 allegations of conflict-of-interest and ineffective counsel raised by Simpson's new legal team.

The proceedings are technically neither a trial nor appeal. The judge will listen to testimony before deciding whether Simpson deserves a new trial.

Simpson maintains the plan was to take back what he expected would be family photos and personal belongings stolen from him after his 1995 acquittal in the slayings of his wife and her friend in Los Angeles.

Simpson was later found liable for damages in a civil wrongful death lawsuit and ordered to pay $33.5m to the families of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.

http://news.sky.com/story/1090433/oj-simpson-requests-new-armed-robbery-trial

S + K Mum said...

OT McCanns

Something I came across regarding the McCann case. Someone called Coldwater put this info together BEFORE the PJ files were released.

It can be found in a post on the Madeleine McCann Controversy page on Facebook. Titled 'The Case of Today According to Coldwater'.

May be an interesting read for those who have followed and been interested in the case.

john said...

Hi S + K Mum.

Do you have a link.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Statement Analysis on the comment section is enlightening.

S + K Mum said...

John,

No I couldn't do a link for it. I will try to copy/ paste it here.

S + K Mum said...

John 1st part:

Post subject: The case as of Today - according to Coldwater

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:02 pm
[Coldwater]I'm starting this thread yet again - well, first time I've started it since joining 3A's, but there you go.
The last two threads obviously became beasts of monstrous, and due to certain posters, monotonous proportions.
< SNIPPED >
To kick things off I will repost as much of the stuff I have contributed to these threads as I can find, but it is a big task and any help would be
appreciated. Thanks :)
....................................................................
Hello everybody.

I've been dabbling with my sources again and thought you might all like to hear the distilled information they have imparted to me - (that which I can reveal, obviously).

Firstly I think it important to say that this investigation is nowhere near closure. As many will know, charges will only arrive when the investigation is officially at an end and not before.

Right now the investigation is focusing on May 2nd 10.00pm through to around 10.00pm May 3rd - a 24hr period in which it is now considered several crimes were committed.

The shift in emphasis to May 2nd is primarily due to the significant lack of independent evidence to support Maddy being seen alive during May 3rd by anyone outside of the TAPAS 9 - and even then only Oldfield actually 'saw' her. Maddy was not present at the creche or children's club. She did not eat with the others and there is NO CCTV footage of her anywhere in the complex or PDL at large beyond the afternoon of May 2nd.

It is also deemed of interest that Gerry missed his afternoon tennis session on May 3rd due to an 'Achilles' injury. It was his unannounced absence which actually drew Oldfield to the apartment and not Gerry asking him to check on Kate. Gerry was not present at the tennis courts and Oldfield went looking for him. Gerry was elsewhere entirely. It is now believed that Oldfield did NOT see Maddy during this brief visit.

The theory is now that Maddy died around midnight May 2nd and that her body was concealed in a bag - Gerry's lost/missing/never had one hold all, sports bag no less. It is believed that this bag was stored in another apartment during some part of May 3rd before initial disposal around the mid to late afternoon of May 3rd. The scent of death was well established and the clean up completed during this time frame. The apartment's cleaner was turned away on May 3rd by Kate McCann I am told.

The forensic material examined and the results are strong in places and weak in others. None are conclusive but highly indicative and along with other evidence form a persuasive case. It is no longer considered that Maddy's body was relocated using the Renault Scenic, but that items pertaining to her and taken from her body were removed, hidden in the tyre well and dumped elsewhere.

As previously reported the PJ have the bag Gerry is so keen now to deny all knowledge of. It is a damning piece of the jigsaw, but not the only one and not the best.

CCTV footage from MW's reception proves that the TAPAS 9 were, for the most part, lying about the frequency of their checks. This is considered an attempt by ALL TAPAS 9 to stall any charges of negligence. The investigation team are also aware of the attempt within the May 3rd confusion to blur the actual time and circumstances of Maddy's disappearance.

They all did eat at Chaplin's on May 2nd and they were contacted at Chaplin's by an employee of MW's with regard to the children - specifically the McCann children. This was followed up immediately upon their return to the MW complex.

S + K Mum said...

2nd part:

Further questioning is to take place shortly and will encompass ALL TAPAS 9 elements, plus others. It is now expected that two others will be made or allowed to request Arguido/Arguida status. These two others are seen as complicit in the aftermath of events surrounding Maddy.

Again, as far as my information allows, I can say that there is NO suggestion of pedophile involvement in any way. The DNA of a North European does not mean that this came from semen or that there is any suggestion of sexual abuse. I think we should all sigh with relief over that. There have been errors in translation and information which may have lead some down this murky pathway.

This case is not finished yet and has a way to run. The culprits will not be found in Spain, Portugal or Morocco.

The above has been gleaned and distilled over Christmas from my three friends and sources. I can elucidate on some points but not others.

......................................................................

I think we are all just going to have to be patient and hold on to the positives of last week.

The FACT that statements have changed, despite what Clarrie might think, is very important. His words, 'substantially the same' speaks volumes. He knows that things have shifted and the outcry over Kate's words last week might have completely erased their Brussles debut, but it also wiped out coverage of the interviews and talk of what might have occurred.

....................................................................

S + K Mum said...

3rd part:

For instance the CCTV thing rumbles on. I am told that the PJ are in possession of a number of recordings, some of which are from the night

of May 3rd. These do not ALL come from what you would traditionally think of as CCTV. They are 'installed' systems of varying quality. They also had something last week which proved to the Tapas 7 that they were not being very accurate about their movements, or lack of, on the night of May 3rd. I assume that this must be some sort of recorded video evidence.

Oldfield. The Oldfield's have provided some good information, so I am told. I was also told a while ago, and have mentioned it before, that he was the last person outside of Gerry, Kate and the twins, to see Madeleine alive. This was on the evening of May 2nd. I await any definitive proof which shows she was alive on May 3rd. The investigation is spanning a 24hr period from 10pm May 2nd to 10pm May 3rd. I also am lead to believe that Oldfield and Kate are, or have been very close indeed

........................................................................................................

I have no inside information about how devout the McCanns are. From my own personal observations I would say they used the Catholic fervour in Portugal to remove themselves from any link to the disappearance of their daughter. It was calculated and cold, as was the trip to the Vatican.

Family comments here in the UK seem to cast doubt on just how committed this couple are to the Catholic cause!!

The reaction and mood of the local Catholic priest says much. I think he carries something of a burden. I'm not sure he has heard their confession. He may have of course, but I doubt it. However, I think he knows he has been used and abused - as have all Catholics who offered the McCanns succor based on their faith alone.

..........................................................................................................

The information I have is that her end was violent, but whether by pure accident or design I have never been told.

I cannot imagine an accident is the key, there would be little need to cover up an accident. It would be embarrassing and potentially fraught with issues of neglect, but I do not feel these would have been pressing enough to warrant such a massive deflection campaign. They seem even now ready and able to embrace the neglect issue if the need arises.

So my opinion that it is something more sinister.

I cannot accept that it was premeditated at this moment. Perhaps I will eventually be proven wrong.

.....................................................................

S + K Mum said...

4th part:

That pesky abductor, waiting for the cadaver scent to settle. Placing blood beneath a tile and a foot print by the bathroom door. Tidying and cleaning the apartment. Placing hair and DNA samples in more than one car. Changing Maddy's PJ's for her. TXTing Gerry. Leaving stuff in a barn that one of the Tapas 9 was close to.

.........................................................................................................

It wasn't a blanket. I understand it was on a large sheet of cold metal - forensic evidence was left behind.

..........................................................................................................

I should just say that, although it is not believed Maddy's body was moved in the scenic, her corpse was moved after initial storage. The PJ know where and on what her body was kept.

This was a holding measure until a good enough disposal plan was finalised.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the sites identified will yield something.

..........................................................................................................

Fake or botched abduction does NOT tie in with the fluids and cadaver odour - sorry folks.

They specifically dismissed the 'booked at MW's insistence' baby sitter for the evening of May 3rd BECAUSE Maddy was already dead. This babysitter was NOT present May 2nd late evening or May 1st. Hence the crying May 2nd and the report to MW's.

==============================

S + K Mum said...

5th part:


Gerry in blue fleece jacket on bike

http://www.elperiodicomediterraneo.com/img/noticias/328395_2.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:25 pm

http://www.the3arguidos.net/posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=400495

nicked - your questions:-

1- PJ has proofs that McCanns used sedatives. YES
2- 4 Members of Tapas were not in PDL just for vacations. NO
3- One of the Tapas members is under police surveillance and protection. MORE
4- There was a 10th Tapas. NO
5- PJ has reports about outside attempts on manipulation in Birmingham FSS lab DNA results. YES (although depends what you mean by outside. The FSS have not been deflected - their results are very important and will provide scientifically verifiable links between many of the events)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:38 am
http://www.the3arguidos.net/posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=402559

I think their expressions in that picture are interesting personally.

I cannot shed much light on the information about the partial or full matches to DNA. The partial match to Maddy's DNA profile came from a relative - it was not a match for Maddy's DNA.

The bag was found in June - I have never been told the location from which it was recovered.

Sedatives and violent death do not necessarily go together.

Perhaps Sentinel is keeping a tally of Beowulf's 5 a day - maybe he will give those who think it is important a score when this ends. Again, personally, I don't give a damn!!

Beowulf is doing what he thinks best, as am I - some of his information is good and some I cannot comment upon because I do not know.

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos1/gerry-mccann-parents-of-missing-child-madeleine-mccann-gerry-and-kate-mccann-may-5-2007-1es6Nr.jpg

S + K Mum said...

6th part:


http://www.the3arguidos.net/

COLDWATER'S POSTS ON MIRROR FORUM copied over by miffed:

Quote:
Coldwater

Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 642

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: Blue Bag - Some information

Just thought you all ought to know that the PJ have had the blue bag in their possession for some time.

This is the bag reported missing by Gerry initially - documented by the PJ - reported by SKY and other sources and now denied by Gerry and CM.

The contents of this bag are deemed interesting.

The game played out prior to the arrival of the new investigating officer was purely to put added pressure on the McCann's.

The bag was NOT discovered on a beach or in a layby. The PJ are aware of this and so are the McCann's.

The fact that Rebelo moved to 'support' the position of those asserting the truth of the tennis bag is very significant.

It was NOT the bag some have seen CM carrying in an early PDL photo.

Merry Christmas one and all!!!
...................................................................................................

3A's

Post subject: Re: Is this the one piece of 'evidence' that's hard to dispute?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:46 pm

farfromthe... I'm sorry but you are talking absolute c*** - and that is being far more polite than I feel.

How in the name of all that is Holy has Kate's jeans (possible purchased in Portugal) managed to get this same scent on the bible, car keys, cupboard, blue bag, O'Brien and several cars? Not to mention that at least one of these cars, where the scent was discovered, yielded forensic evidence? All that from innocently transfered cadaver scent received in the line of duty as a part time GP?

S + K Mum said...

7th part:

FROM 3A's

Post subject: Re: ABOUT A BAG .... and more
New postPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:12 am

I had a long thread about the blue bag on the MF. Seems like the coherent bits out of the OP's ramble came from what I posted on the MF about the bag.

I didn't bother saving it as I never really thought the MF would close.....

However I remember the salient bits and can discuss these.

The really interesting point is that the contents of the blue bag were revealed to some extent by the airport bag story. The existance of the Blue Bag was confirmed by Brunty, via a source (PJ) and also by the PJ. My sources revealed much about the bag at the time and this was discussed quite aggressively - as was the MF's way.

I cannot confirm that this bag was lifted from another car Gerry was using. That would indeed be very damning. I do know that the PJ have had it for considerable time and its contents checked and matched to Madeleine

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Post subject: Re: The Case as of Today - Posted by Coldwater on Daily Mail
New postPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:08 am

It is believed that the Blue Bag was used for initial storage and movement from one apartment to another - during cleanup, and then as the means of concealed transport on May 3rd.

It is not believed that she was concealed in the bag for long - if at all beyond the first day.

The same bag was used to conceal evidence related to the body - all contaminants in one container.

A folded bag is much easier to conceal in a freezer compartment than a whole body!!! And it stops it smelling too!!

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Post subject: Re: The case of today by Coldwater MK II
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:40 pm

I've said this so many times that I cannot believe there are still people talking about the white carrier bag near Faro airport.

There was NO white bag. The list of contents was accurate. These were found in the Blue Tennis bag, recovered by the PJ.

The bag held a lot of forensic clues and WAS checked by the dogs - cadaver scent was marked.

Now, whether or not the bag and its contents have been directly linked to the McCanns, as in, were there forensic samples to suggest that these were Gerry's clothes, I don't actually know.

The FACT that the McCanns responded, spinning the find to PROVE that Maddy was abducted and taken to the airport, in my mind at least, makes this exceedingly significant. Congealed skin and fluids, including blood, to me, do not prove reassuring. But then I haven't got my hide to save or a multi million pound campaign to protect - many millions when you consider the possible spin offs!

S + K Mum said...

8th part:

Coldwater wrote: June 11th

tylersmum - yes, the layby story is just that!! The bag was not found there - nor by a passer by.

The fleece and the jeans were both men's.

The partial DNA match is interesting, don't you think?

They also secured a full DNA match from the congealed/frozen matter. But this was different to the partial match.

What on earth could provide a partial match?

S + K Mum said...

John,

It's very long!

Sorry Peter! (delete if necessary)

john said...

Thanks S + K Mum.

Interesting reading,especially the part about the blue bag..

Deejay said...

I see my last post was not well worded. My apologies to all. I enjoy reading the statement analysis. I wish ALL personal attacks would be left off.
Excrciating Headache- I did not mean to accused you of attacks. I meant that in a general sense. I'm sorry.

Dee said...

Peter Hyatt said...
Adam Baker was deceptive.
Adam Baker showed guilty knowledge of his daughter's death.
Adam Baker disparaged the victim.

Adam Baker should have been charged.

Peter

*******************************
This is not about whether Peter is right or wrong. This is a statement analysis blog. Don't look at what Peter's saying and take it at face value, which I admit I did at first.
I agree with what Lemon said..."A careful reading shows Peter doesn't say his analysis is wrong. Also, he doesn't take possession of it, as in Peter Hyatt's Wrong Analysis."

Peter's analysis wasn't wrong so why did Peter post this now? What is he telling us?

Replace the name...
BJD was deceptive.
BJD showed guilty knowledge of her daughter's death.
BJD disparaged the victim.

BJD should have been charged.

Maybe? I hope that is NOT what he's trying to imply.

Excruciating Headache said...

I love this site. I lurked for a couple of years without ever posting.

I believe Peter Hyatt is onto something with SA and I think he will become even better over time. Otherwise, I would find something else to pass the time. Trolling is lame. As an intelligent, educated person myself, I enjoy disagreement and debate.

I assume Peter to be of the same ability and character. I have assumed that he is good at his craft, but not smug in his ability. If he has to be perfectly accurate all the time, then it's his issue, not mine. I don't think that's the case. At least I hope not.

I majored in nursing in my first go at college and political science the next time. I have degrees in both disciplines. I cannot help considering the political aspects or the forensics of any situation.

I don't know everything, but I am willing to learn. That's why I check this site daily (actually, more than daily. don't tell my boss. ;)

More Cheers!
EH

S + K Mum said...

John,

Yeah, the bag info definately sparked my attention. Saw the pics of it, read about it but nothing about the PJ having it. No idea how truthful/ accurate this Coldwater is but time will tell hopefully.
It surely must be time for an update on the case that's costing over £6000 a day................

~ABC said...

Riley said...
I cannot figure out why anyone would visit and post on a a site they disagreed with, AND continue to come back regularly.

Once upon a time Lemon said...
Billie Dunn is an empty well, broken, begging for attention and disapproval so she can argue to feel alive. She lives for the dark fight. It is a sad, sorry, small existence.

And there's the answer Riley. Some people don't know how to live without something or someone to fight against.

Dee said...

Thanks for posting that S & K Mum. That was interesting reading.

S + K Mum said...

:) Dee

It is a fascinating case.

Excruciating Headache said...

I am really done. Yay for some of you.

I thought this was a place for healthy debate. Instead, it is a place for idol worship. I really believed Peter was above it. He's a smart guy with lots of good things to teach.

If he's really smart, he knows he isn't perfect. If he's confident, he can tolerate being wrong one time in ten. I'm flexible. I can deal with my imperfections.

If you want to be a thoughtful person, challenge everything - even if it seems legit. If it doesn't, you can still find some value in the debate.

P.S. Hard to believe as it is, I am a woman. Not a spring chicken. So, don't call me daughter. Not fit to be. LOL. Run with that, EH haters! I hope at least someone understood.

I will lurk silently while you commit yourselves to a mutual admiration society that doesn't meet your needs. <3

At least I tried. I'm sad from all of this.

Riley said...

Well said, ABC :)

Anonymous said...

Big Headache; don't go away. I have valued your posts and consider you to be of astute intelligence in several areas. I am the Anon (there were several others as well) who came down on you the hardest for your slam against PH and his statement analysis in the Zahra Baker murder, and said that I could no longer respect your posts;

not because you disagreed with Peter's analysis but because it was obvious that you knew very little about the case when you spoke out against the analysis and our comments about Adam Bakers' guilt. I'm truly sorry I said that, and I ask you to forgive me.

Just so you know, I am not a PH worshiper, not even necessarily a followerer, per se', I just believe that in this particular case he was/is right just as he has been in many other cases. Stating this does not make me a boot licker, or part of an admiration society, alrighty? Now, please get over the dispute that led to all this. At least try?

Anonymous said...

Peter is not "just on to something". This is a true study done by many professionals who use it in their daily jobs ie: FIB, LE and so on. It's not like Peter made this up one day out of the blue and ran with it. Silly to say he's on to something. Peter just happens to not only be knowledgeable and educated in SA he opens the eyes of his students, or those who choose to come here and learn from him.
Thank you for sharing with us, Peter. I have learned so much from coming here.
I first found this site when I was inquiring about Hailey Dunn, and since then visit often.

Aries said...

EH you are actually one of the smart ones on this site. I agree with your posts. Please don't stop commenting!

Wreyeter72 said...

Excruciating Headache sounds just like my mother. I shall investigate... Lol. Don't leave the site because someone got their feelings hurt ok? You never know what some of those anonymous trolls really are - snarky 15 yr old boys? Lonely 40 yr olds living in their mother's basement? Generally unhappy people who feel better about themselves when they knock someone else down? Maybe in some cases. Make like a duck and let it roll off your back.

Anonymous said...

Anyone that leaves b/c of what someone else states on this blog is weak to start with.

Anonymous said...

EH with your comments addressed to "people" we the "people" spoke back. It was you that didn't like what people had to say after Peter posted the title so you addressed us all. You have taken many stabs at "people" on here and the one time you are called out you run. Feeling the need to state your education degrees speaks volumes, and handle you chose says "not a happy camper".

Anonymous said...

No, Headache is not a weak person, quite to the contrary. Also, I don't regard Big Headaches' handle as her not being a happy camper, just that she has suffered a lot of unnecessary headaches caused by others in her lifetime. THAT too, I can relate too!

Yes, she has taken stabs at some of us, me in particular, but little does she know that I am one of the ones whose always stuck up for her; even if I was the anon who told her recently that I would not respect her posts any longer. Not true, and I shouldn't have said it. I'm sorry, Big Headache, and I DO care about you. See?

Dee said...

Has this become Excruciating Headaches blog? Enough already. Please.

Hobnob said...

Get yer bandaids here, in a variety of sizes and colors and with a wide range of cartoon characters from barney to xena via flintstones, scooby doo and mighty mouse for the oldies amongst you :)

Lemon said...

I'll take 2 Snoopy's and a Hello Kitty.
thanks!

Anonymous said...

Excruciating Headache = Excruciating Headache !!!!!!!! SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!! your an evil satanic vomit fart!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Why oh why is Dexter Morgan only a fictional creation?

~ABC said...

Riley said...
Well said, ABC :)
May 14, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Thanks Riley, but it was Ms Lemon I was quoting and may be one of the most profound statements about human behavior I've seen anywhere in a long time. Lemon summed up in a few words something I've been trying to articulate forEVER. So thanks Lemon!

Lemon said...

you're welcome.

Anonymous said...

Lemon, Hobnob, and Dee are the most condescending aholes. You want to go through life being a douche? Have at it.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Excruciating Headache = Excruciating Headache !!!!!!!! SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!! your an evil satanic vomit fart!!!!!!!!!!!

************************************
Did you think that PROFOUND thing all by yourself?

Nevertheless, your message would have been more effective had you correctly used the contraction "you're" instead of the possessive "your".

Don't get me started on your crimes against capitalism.

Look! It was a double entendre. (You'll have to look that up on Wikipedia)

Unknown said...

I need to disagree with Zahras father having guilty knowledge of the murder.

I believe the father expressed deceit because he was obviously a neglectful, terrible father.

Does that deserve jail? Sure

Does that make him a murderer? No.

Just because so many people stumbled onto statement analysis, they want to believe it is full proof.

It does not, and should not work that way.

It should be marked as unreliable, and investigated.

Since we cannot investigate, more statements need to be analyzed.

With Dunn, Peter had a plethora of statements pertaining to the exact time and location of the event in question.

In this case, the step mothers statement is also a direct account of the time, location and event.

With the father, his SENSITIVITY...remember, they are not flagged deception, but actually "sensitive to the subject."

And since we NEED the free editing process, we know the subject is using their own words, which they will use to distance and minimize from ANY event or subject that is sensitive to the subject.

In this case, we are told the father did not even know she was missing for 2 weeks.

Police in this day and age will throw a charge at anyone they think it might stick to, simply for a +1 in their conviction stats.

Never mind the life they are throwing away. Evidence be damned.

Don't believe me? Watch "murder on a Sunday morning."

So please, remain objective. You will be better people, better analysts and MUCH BETTER posters on this site

Unknown said...

That is to say, if there was one shred of evidence, or even a chance they could plant illegal evidence on the father, they would have.

We must conclude the father was not involved. Peter jumped the gun.

Many commentators here jumped on the mom who claimed a dingo ate her baby.

After analyzing" her statement, they are ready to execute her.

After witnesses came forward, they ignored them.

After police VERIFIED the baby was eaten, they came up with theories involving a dead baby, and 3 year old brothers in on the conspiracy.

Just settle down.sa is not fool proof.

Peter Hyatt said...

He was deceitful about neglect:

about whom he allowed to babysit.

He knew.