Monday, June 10, 2013

Statement Analysis: Edward Snowden, Whistleblower


Edward Snowden: the whistleblower answers the essential questions on the biggest leak in NSA history

Source for the Guardian's NSA files on why he carried out the biggest intelligence leak in a generation – and what comes next
Link to video: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'
Edward Snowden was interviewed over several days in Hong Kong by Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill.
Q: Why did you decide to become a whistleblower?
A: "The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife's phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.
"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things … I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under."
Q: But isn't there a need for surveillance to try to reduce the chances of terrorist attacks such as Boston?
A: "We have to decide why terrorism is a new threat. There has always been terrorism. Boston was a criminal act. It was not about surveillance but good, old-fashioned police work. The police are very good at what they do."
Q: Do you see yourself as another Bradley Manning?
A: "Manning was a classic whistleblower. He was inspired by the public good."
Q: Do you think what you have done is a crime?
A: "We have seen enough criminality on the part of government. It is hypocritical to make this allegation against me. They have narrowed the public sphere of influence."
Q: What do you think is going to happen to you?
A: "Nothing good."
Q: Why Hong Kong?
A: "I think it is really tragic that an American has to move to a place that has a reputation for less freedom. Still, Hong Kong has a reputation for freedom in spite of the People's Republic of China. It has a strong tradition of free speech."
Q: What do the leaked documents reveal?
A: "That the NSA routinely lies in response to congressional inquiries about the scope of surveillance in America. I believe that when [senator Ron] Wyden and [senator Mark] Udall asked about the scale of this, they [the NSA] said it did not have the tools to provide an answer. We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinised most. We collect more digital communications from America than we do from the Russians."
nsa whistleblowerSnowden is a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA
Q: What about the Obama administration's protests about hacking by China?
A: "We hack everyone everywhere. We like to make a distinction between us and the others. But we are in almost every country in the world. We are not at war with these countries."
Q: Is it possible to put security in place to protect against state surveillance?
A: "You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying. We can plant bugs in machines. Once you go on the network, I can identify your machine. You will never be safe whatever protections you put in place."
Q: Does your family know you are planning this?
A: "No. My family does not know what is happening … My primary fear is that they will come after my family, my friends, my partner. Anyone I have a relationship with …
I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. I am not going to be able to communicate with them. They [the authorities] will act aggressively against anyone who has known me. That keeps me up at night."
Q: When did you decide to leak the documents?
A: "You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realise that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. It was a natural process.
"A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama's promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor."
Q: What is your reaction to Obama denouncing the leaks on Friday while welcoming a debate on the balance between security and openness?
A: "My immediate reaction was he was having difficulty in defending it himself. He was trying to defend the unjustifiable and he knew it."
Q: What about the response in general to the disclosures?
A: "I have been surprised and pleased to see the public has reacted so strongly in defence of these rights that are being suppressed in the name of security. It is not like Occupy Wall Street but there is a grassroots movement to take to the streets on July 4 in defence of the Fourth Amendment called Restore The Fourth Amendment and it grew out of Reddit. The response over the internet has been huge and supportive."
Q: Washington-based foreign affairs analyst Steve Clemons said he overheard at the capital's Dulles airport four men discussing an intelligence conference they had just attended. Speaking about the leaks, one of them said, according to Clemons, that both the reporter and leaker should be "disappeared". How do you feel about that?
A: "Someone responding to the story said 'real spies do not speak like that'. Well, I am a spy and that is how they talk. Whenever we had a debate in the office on how to handle crimes, they do not defend due process – they defend decisive action. They say it is better to kick someone out of a plane than let these people have a day in court. It is an authoritarian mindset in general."
Q: Do you have a plan in place?
A: "The only thing I can do is sit here and hope the Hong Kong government does not deport me … My predisposition is to seek asylum in a country with shared values. The nation that most encompasses this is Iceland. They stood up for people over internet freedom. I have no idea what my future is going to be.
"They could put out an Interpol note. But I don't think I have committed a crime outside the domain of the US. I think it will be clearly shown to be political in nature."
Q: Do you think you are probably going to end up in prison?
A: "I could not do this without accepting the risk of prison. You can't come up against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk. If they want to get you, over time they will."
Q: How to you feel now, almost a week after the first leak?
A: "I think the sense of outrage that has been expressed is justified. It has given me hope that, no matter what happens to me, the outcome will be positive for America. I do not expect to see home again, though that is what I want."

60 comments:

Skeptical said...

Looks like the TV show "Person of Interest" is more fact than fiction. The government does have our number, all of them in fact.

dadgum said...

I love the Administration! Mr. Obama is the greatest He even sings like a rockstar!! I wish I could vote for him over, and over, and over again. Conservatism is wrong, wrong, wrong!

(addendum to the Pledge, which isn't used anyway, so no worries)

I heard Obamacare will have a new feature. They will know when we are sick, from our posts and emails. After confirming that we called out mother for advice, a uniformed physician will be sent to to our homes to convince us we are just fine.

ulla said...

Someone has to stand up to the police state. Good for him.

Skeptical of Government said...

The pronouns are all inconsistent and the statements are reported in the negative. I am confused. I WANT to believe him, but this is not what I was expecting at all. Peter, am I reading it wrong? Is he fabricating? On the Daily Mail, someone called him a paranoid narcissist. What is your call?

Anonymous said...

Reuters "Mandela died in His slepe"10 June 2013

Anonymous said...

Mandella died 5 mins ago!!!!

Anonymous said...

"I am a spy"
-But he was not expecting to be spying on his fellow citizens.

Those who have been following privacy issues are not surprised by any of this.

We are not the only nation doing this.

The development spans presidents and administrations and many large companies (Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Verizon) are involved.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline

Anonymous said...

There has also been a fierce pursuing of hackers whose focus is the need for transparency and openness.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2262831/Revealed-Aaron-Swartz-prosecutor-drove-hacker-suicide-2008-named-cyber-crime-case.html

Anonymous said...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/09/edward_snowden_why_did_the_nsa_whistleblower_have_access_to_prism_and_other.html

Peter Hyatt said...

I don't know what to think of him, yet, but I know that history teaches that wars generally cause a loss of personal rights, and raise taxes, and when the war is over, not all rights are restored, and generally, taxes do not go down, either.

I believe that this started, of late, in earnest under George W. Bush, and has spiraled out of control under Barak Obama. Transparency has become a poorly told bad joke in America.

It is frightening.

I wonder how many of us stop to consider why an IRS agent, for example, would want a person's medical records.

It is frightening.

Is Edward Snowden a hero or a rogue?

I would rather learn from his quotes than from what our government says about him.

Anonymous said...

Uhhh there is no "whistleblowing".....the NSA is doing the same thing it did under Bush and everybody knew about it and Republicans did not complain

But because a Black man is President all-of-a-sudden the NSA was created by Obama and Obama must be executed for "spying"?

NSA targeted electronic media movement in Pakistan and Iran and Egypt: nearly all the data collected was mined from Pakistan: the NSA targeted TERRORIST LOCALITIES

Verizon Yahoo Google YouTube AOL Facebook etc are AMERICAN companies but the overwhelming majority - 80%+ - of their customers are THE REST OF THE GLOBE. 85% of Facebook users are based OUTSIDE of America. Because there are 7 BILLION people in the world versus 310+ million in the US.

The NSA were "spying" on electronic data originating out of PAKISTAN, along with Egypt Iran Jordan. Less than 3% was routed through the US but they were NOT Americans, they were, for example, a Pakistani using a IP ROUTER to alter and mask the IP address, making it appear he was in the US.

And grow a brain already - the WORLD WIDE WEB is not private and was never designed to be private - it was designed to be PUBLIC+GLOBAL, people CONSTANTLY have their "private" facebook pages hacked and youtoube and yahoo accounts hacked, etc.

And hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people working in the field of technology and communications SEE and READ and HEAR and SIFT THROUGH EVERY SINGLE CALL YOU MAKE AND EVERY SINGLE KEYBOARD STROKE YOU MAKE: IT'S THEIR JOB.

GOOGLE IS NOTORIOUS FOR TRACKING AND RECORDING EVERY KEYBOARD STROKE AND SITE CLICK AND MOUSE HOVER YOU MAKE. EVERY INTERNET BROWSWER - CHROME, FIREFOX, SEAMONKEY - TRACKS AND RECORDS EVERY KEYBOARD STROKE AND SITE CLICK AND MOUSE HOVER YOU MAKE. YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM TRACKS AND RECORDS EVERY MOVE YOU MAKE. AND THEY TRACK AND RECORD FOR HUNDREDS OF REASONS, TO ENHANCE AND IMPROVE AND INNOVATE THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES, TO CREATE NEW PRODUCTS AND SERVICES, TO LEARN YOUR POSTING PATTERNS IN ORDER TO BETTER SPAM YOU WITH SALES ADVERTISEMENTS, AND SO ON.

YOU'RE A FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT IDIOT TO PRETEND THIS IS AN ISSUE WHEN IT'S NOT.

Under Bush and now under Obama both presidents used the NSA to track down TERRORISTS - INCLUDING OSAMA BIN LADEN - and arrest them and/or drone them off the map. NSA data collection helped find Osama's courier which led to finding Osama, and NSA data collection proved members of the Pakistani govournment and Pakistani intelligence agency were members of an al-Qaida affiliate who orchestrated the hiding and harbouring of Bin Laden in Pakistan.

NSA = GOOD: use DATA to pinpoint terrorist then drone them off the map

To take away the NSA is to take away a NON-MILITARY METHOD OF INTERDICTION and a NON-MILITARY COUNTERTERRORISM TOOL used to investigate terrorist activities, which wil force the govournment to go back to launching wars all over the globe to combat terrorism.

You scumbag idiots bitched about Obama not doing enough about the Boston Bombers when they were being monitored by the CIA yet in the same breath you fucking idiots want to TAKE AWAY TOOLS HE NEEDS TO USE TO GATHER ENOUGH INTELLIGENCE TO JUSTIFY DOING SOMETHING.

The NSA is tracking and trying to see pattersn in pings pinging the mountainous regions of Pakistan were TERRORISTS shack up, the NSA is keeping track of pings pinged through smuggle tunnels connecting Egypt and Gaza, the NSA is KEEPING AMERICA SAFE.........

.......and guess what you stupid fucking ignorant scumbag republicans - we have Bush to thank for what the NSA are doing, Bush is the one who pushed the NSA to do what they were doing WITHOUT congressional approval and WITHOUT a court order, Obama CONTINUED Bush's NSA policy but Obama forced the NSA to spy WITH congressional approval (Multiple Congressional committees were briefed 13 times in the last few years about NSA's spying agenda and NSA authorized the CONGRESSPEOPLE on those committees to SHARE ALL THE DETAILS TO ALL OF CONGRESS) and to spy with a court order.

sidewalk super said...

It is unfortunate for the rest of us that the anonymous cowards like to rely on street thug cursing as their only means of communication on this blog.
Why do you anonymous cowards bother? You have nothing better to do? Pity.

Anonymous said...

Please help find Ayla
Q: When did you decide to leak the documents?
A: "You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realise that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. IT WAS A NATURAL PROCESS.

MR: " Well, because I think it's just A NATURAL PART OF THE PROCESS"
www.koat,com


Anonymous said...

Q: Why Hong Kong?
A: "I think it is really tragic that AN AMERICAN HAS TO MOVE to a place that HAS A REPUTATION* for less freedom. Still, Hong Kong has a reputation for freedom in spite of the People's Republic of China. It has a strong tradition of FREE SPEECH(?????)."

( *this guy was a SPY?? Maybe he should have read up on Chinese military repression; Tiananmen Square massacre for example)

My guess is that he was going to be fired for being a lousy spy.

exhausted said...


"I just want her home in one piece, I wanna know that she's okay," said Angela Steinfurth, Elaina's mother. "It's very hard not having her around. My other daughter's going insane without her sister. They need to be together."

One Piece, Huh? :(

Dee said...

@anon 12:46...NSA does not = Good. NSA has been doing this since it's inception. The agency once served a purpose that has long been forgotten. It's now mainly a money and a power hungry bureaucracy. NSA has always eavesdropped on Americans. Certain buzzwords would cause your call to get flagged and listened to. Most were disregarded as nothing, some investigated. The agency had no interest in listening to your call wishing great grandma a Happy Birthday. Those days have changed. NSA watches everything we do, whether there is a reason to watch us or not. I resent that intrusion. I knew when my husband worked there that we were watched and listened to. That I could accept as a condition of employment. Them spying on ordinary citizens who give no cause for concern is very alarming. What might some rogue employee do with that info? Do you want them focusing a satellite at your house watching you swim in your pool, play with your kids, listen to all your phone calls - not because you're a threat - just because they can?
I'm concerned about terrorism, but where do we draw the line? Rights? We have no privacy rights. They are stripped away whether we like it or not by this omnipotent power called NSA.
It has gone on for years but has grown exponentially worse under the current administration. It has nothing to do with Obama being black, white or purple(btw he's not black, he's bi-racial). It has everything to do with abuse of power. Transparency my foot! It would be laughable if not so sad.

Anonymous said...

OT
Would love your comment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCqOMdcutWQ

Skeptical of Government said...

Peter:
I agree with what you said, about our rights being eeked away bit by bit. Are you going to analyze the article you posted? There are so many quotes there that could be useful.

Have you seen this? It seems to follow along the lines of what you've said, if you keep an open mind about the SUBJECT of the discussion. I'd be curious what you say about this.

http://removingtheshackles.blogspot.ca/2013/05/transcription-of-paul-hellyer-testimony.html

Anonymous said...

I am outraged that the government thinks they can do this and then claim that the people want him prosecuted. Um, NO, we don't. At least, *I* don't. Give him a frigging medal. And then send the entire administration to Gitmo, to spend time with Bin Laden.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10111663/US-faces-long-fight-to-capture-NSA-whistleblower-Edward-Snowden.html

Anonymous said...

NSA spying unearthed Osama Bin Laden's courier and the courier led to unearthing Osama Bin Laden

NSA spying has unearthed the locations of dozens of terrorists

Lemon said...

~ passes out tin foil hats ~

Anonymous said...

I don't know what to think about his guy yet, either. I disagreed with the manner in which the Patriot Act was so forcefully put in place,via executive order, after 9/11. I also disagreed with the establishment of the NSA (and I am a former civil servant) because I don't like the government taking so much power unto itself. Edward Snowden would have been about 17 when 9/11 happened. Maybe it has taken him this long to see the way things have been going as far as less transparency, use of executive privilege (think Obamacare), and big government doing whatever it wants and justifying it later.

As to the criticism about Snowden not remaining anonymous under the Whistleblower Act, I think he just cut to the chase (or maybe cut out the chase?) by coming forward. He knows that anytime something controversial is said or done and/or a law is broken, there's a big push by government and the media to find out who is responsible and he would have eventually been found out. Is he trying to portray himself as a "conscientious objector?" Did he get paid by anyone for the information he gave out? Is he another intelligent, narcissistic, and possibly pathological liar with no high-school diploma, like Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony? I don't know.

--Shenanigan

Hobnob said...

Lemon said...

~ passes out tin foil hats ~


Can you put pink fluffy bunny ears on mine ta :)

Anonymous said...

Verizon Yahoo Google YouTube AOL Facebook etc are AMERICAN companies but the overwhelming majority - 80%+ - of their customers are THE REST OF THE GLOBE. 85% of Facebook users are based OUTSIDE of America. Because there are 7 BILLION people in the world versus 310+ million in the US.

___________________________

In other words, even though the companies are American, it does not mean Americans were spied on because the companies are global and have a global customer base.

Facebook statistics prove 80%+ of their pages originate outside of the North America.

And you know why their statistics prove it? Because Facebook, like the NSA, like Google, like YouTube, like Yahoo, like AOL, etc - use the same exact "spying technology" the NSA uses to electronically gather data.

Billions of people use the internet and only 300 million of those people are Americans.

If the NSA wants to gather intelligence on Pakistani Google usage, the NSA has to subpoena Google and cull Google data.

If the NSA wants to gather gps intelligence on Gazan yahoo email activity, the NSA has to subpoena yahoo and cull yahoo data.

Terrorists use cell phones and the internet. The younger Boston Bomber heavily used Twitter. Most major Islamic terrorist groups have websites. Al-Qaida has their own online magazine. Osama Bin Laden had multiple facebook accounts and multiple ISP servers and multiple cell phone providers.

Islamic radicals upload "Destroy Israel! Destroy America!" videos on YouTube. NSA subpoenas YouTube to gain access to YouTube accounts with a lot of "Destroy Israel/America" videos, especially when the videos of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of "Likes".

America is the country that created the internet industry, America is the country that OWNS the internet industry, Internet Explorer, Chrome, Firefox, Twitter, Google, Bing, Yahoo, Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, Yahoo = AMERICAN but the GLOBE uses those services, including terrorists.

The investigative tool of electronic data gathering is to national security as the investigative tool of blood/dna forensics is to criminal investigations.

Only idiots think the WORLD WIDE WEB and CELLULAR phones are private.

How many spam messages are sitting in your Google account, Yahoo account, Outlook Express account? Look at all the spam flooding most internet pages. How many spam phone calls do you deal with everyday? All those unrecognizable numbers? How many times have you registered your phone number(s) on the Do Not Call List but are SPAMMED REGARDLESS? Much of that spam is SPYING and an INVASION OF PRIVACY yet there you are, continuing to you your online email accounts and cell phone.

Microsoft and Apple track every move you make on our computers for hundreds of reasons both good and bad, that's SPYING and in invasion privacy, yet there you are using your computer.

The US criminal justice system uses electronic spying to track sex offenders and people under house arrest.

The US criminal justice system used electronic spying to pinpoint Shawn Adkins' movemement the day Hailey "went missing" and the electronic spying proved Shawn Adkins lied about his whereabouts and lied to the extent to prove complicity in Hailey's demise.


Sella35 said...

OT- Not sure if anyone has posted yet, but Katelyn Wolfe has been found deceased. http://fox59.com/2013/06/11/body-found-in-greene-county-possibly-katelyn-wolfe/#axzz2Vumdm4sU

Also OT- Nine-year-old Taylor Jo Challis has been located safe!!
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_west_valley/glendale/glendale-police-search-for-missing-9-year-old-girl-taylor-jo-challis

Sella35 said...

OT again- Elaina Steinfurth has their been any new statements or activity in this missing baby? Thanks <3 Sella

sidewalk superTURD said...

STFU U TURD!!!!!!!

C5H11ONO said...

In reading his responses I noticed that he knows how to use his pronouns I, me, they, and we. He stated early on, "I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things … I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded.."

And he distanced himself from what he doesn’t want, “That is not something I am willing to support or live under.” – He used “that”.

But further down the interview, he said: "We hack everyone everywhere. We like to make a distinction between us and the others. But we are in almost every country in the world. We are not at war with these countries." – utilizing “we” which represents unity and cooperation. Would this mean that at some point he was participating and involved with hacking everyone everywhere? He was also of the mindset where he made distinctions between us and the others, and he was involved global in his participation. I would like to know what happened that caused him to “change” his mind along the way. He could have made these leaks because he was passed up for a promotion, and now he wants to make the “right” choice? He knew how to go back to “they” when it came to them wanting to get you and how over time “they” do. Therefore, if he is so against what was happening, at no time would he have included himself with what was done. He would have always referred to “they” or “them”.

When asked “What is your reaction to Obama denouncing the leaks on Friday while welcoming a debate on the balance between security and openness?”
He indicated "My immediate reaction was he was having difficulty in defending it himself. He was trying to defend the unjustifiable and he knew it." That means he had other reactions afterward which he is not revealing to us.

He revealed something about himself, “My primary fear is that they will come after my family, my friends, my partner. Anyone I have a relationship with …” He refers to fearing for his partner, and also anyone he has a relationship with which is gender neutral. I believe he is gay. Was he passed over for a promotion because of his sexual orientation and this is retaliation of sort?

He was asked a yes or no question with: “Do you think what you have done is a crime?” He responded, "We have seen enough criminality on the part of government. It is hypocritical to make this allegation against me. They have narrowed the public sphere of influence." – He didn’t answer the question with a yes or no. He only feels that it is hypocritical to make the allegation he committed a crime against him, not that he didn’t commit a crime. Further along when addressing why he didn’t foresee any problems going to Hong Kong he stated, “But I don't think I have committed a crime outside the domain of the US.” This answered the interviewers original question.


He stated, “Well, I am a spy” This is in present tense, so despite having leaked stuff, he considers himself to still be a spy.

Here he states: We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinised most. – He included himself with the possession of having tools, but then highlights himself as having maps showing where people have been scrutinized most. Is this a subtle threat that he is prepared to reveal the “proof” and share it with the people that have been scrutinized most, creating a bigger problem for the US. This might be a statement for other to capture and understand.

I hate having my privacy impacted. I also don’t care if I am surveiled because I am not doing anything wrong. I want these tools in place to capture and target terrorists. If they are using these tools, then they should also implement them to capture and incarcerate sexual predators on line. I believe, based on his statements that he was very much a part of the hacking and intercepting that was going on, I also believe he only turned on the NSA for personal reasons, not for altruistic reasons. What do you think?

Skeptical of Government said...

Lemon,
Your comment, while funny, is disrespectful those who have different beliefs but also offensive to those with mental illness.

Anonymous said...

explain this:

http://blog.al.com/east-alabama/2013/06/why_were_roadblocks_in_st_clai.html

Hobnob said...

off topic and concerning

from a verified insider on the WS site

Sitting back at the empty lot all day waiting for news, preferably GOOD, but nothing either way yet. We are not flipping out b/c we all believe Angela has taken her out of the house and is hiding her. Her sister Mary has said she heard Angela tell "someone" that she wants to take her and go to Florida so she can start her life over again and TJ will not be able to see Elaina ever again. Also, several months ago a period of about 2 weeks went by that Angela kept TJ from seeing both girls, then suddenly gave in. Angela's mother who lived close to their prior residence, called TJ and said she needed to talk to him, "there's something you need to know." When he went to her apt., Lisa (Angela's mom) told him the reason she kept him from seeing them was that the baby had bruises on her and Angela didn't want TJ to see them. We were also informed that the day after the first interview, she was overheard saying "Oh! I forgot to tell the police that the baby looked like she had a black eye and broken nose, there was dried blood in her nose".
TJ and Angela split for several reasons, the main one being TJ had told her approx. a month before the split that he was tired of her always yelling and screaming at the kids and she had the tendency to pick up Kylee (4 yr old) roughly by the arm amongst other things. He gave her a month to change her attitude/actions, when she did not, he decided they were done. On top of that, TJ came home from work early one night (he works 3rd shift) and caught her on the couch with Steven.
Both girls are "daddy's girls", she may think IMO that if she can get Elaina away at this young age that she can change her feelings. Kylee did tell me yesterday that she slept with Elaina Sunday night on the floor.


what really stands out is this We were also informed that the day after the first interview, she was overheard saying "Oh! I forgot to tell the police that the baby looked like she had a black eye and broken nose, there was dried blood in her nose".

This doesn't happen by accident, if it were accidental then she should have been taken to ER, if she wasn't then there was a reason she wasn't, ie non accidental.
The option are thus family abduction to hide the injured baby until the injuries have healed ( hence her crying about never seeing her again. She would lose custody and visitation plus face charges) Elaina is dead as a result of said injuries and again she had to be hidden in order to avoid charges, losing custody/visitation.
There were apparantly multiple adults in the house so there could not have been stranger abduction which then points right back at the family.

When was Elaina last seen alive by an independant witness and were there any visible injuries?
Elaina is dead, judging by the searches LE think soas well. You don't go checking trash cans and rivers for a live baby.

The mom's words are wrong, she never uses her baby's name, there is no emotion or concern for Elaina it is about comforting me supporting me.

Sus said...

I'm not sure about all of this, but I'm leaning toward Snowden has a political agenda and he committed treason to achieve it.

In the above interview his pronouns are all over the place...I - you - they - we... I am a spy, but THEY do such and such. Snowden used a lot of "yous " which is not showing commitment.

His comments on his voting spoke of an agenda to me.

Everyone should know when you are on the internet or cellphone, it is public domain. I get constant Spam from the sites I've visited and similar sites because those companies are tracking me. Facebook is an open world...identity thieves and pedophiles know it.

Snowden worked for a company which contracted with NSA for tech assistance. One of the things they advertise is using social media to predict and stop crime and terrorism. Why does this shock people?

LE all over the world has learned to use social media to solve, predict, and prevent crime! That's why police pretend to be young girls and catch pedophiles. That's how police stop murder conspiricies and terror threats.

NSA is doing the same thing...looking for patterns in calls and internet discussion.

By the way...Russia just offered Snowden asylum. Russia, who thought we didn't do enough surveillance on the Boston bombers. Hmmm.

Hobnob said...

transcript of interview with angela steinfurth

Toledo News Now: What have you been going through the last three days?

Angela Steinfurth, mother of missing girl: A nervous wreck. I just want her home in one piece, I wanna know that she's okay. It's very hard not having her around. My other daughter's going insane without her sister. They need to be together.



Toledo News Now: When you see the outpour of support, does that help at all?

Angela: It does, but it still doesn't bring her home. It doesn't bring her home at all. I appreciate the support of everybody being here but it does not bring her back at all.



Toledo News Now: What can you hope that tonight's vigil will do?

Angela: Put an end to this so she can come home. I'm hoping someone just gives up and brings her back to me and her father where she needs to be. She has problems, and me and him are the only ones that can handle those problems for her.



Toledo News Now: What is she like? Tell me about her.

Angela: She's shy, she's quiet, she's a momma's girl over a thousand percent….She does like men, but she'll see you for a couple minutes if you're a guy, but overall it's ‘mommy mommy mommy.' That's the way she's been since she was born. She's a perfect little angel, I wouldn't ask her to be any other way.



Toledo News Now: I can't even imagine what this has all been like for you, a nightmare?

Angela: Yeah, I've been like this for 3 days, shaking. It's hard. It is very hard. I just want her home.



Toledo News Now: Is there anything else you wanna add?

Angela: Just whoever has her, to bring her home. She needs to be home with her parents.


Where is the plea to the abductor, the calls to her daughter?
She uses 1000% in reference to being a mommy's girl.
Since this is impossible, it makes it sensitive.
What is her definition of '100%' complete, total. full or all if there is a 1000%? how high can it go?

The mom knows the truth, has she been polygraphed along with the boyfriend?
Did she take it or did she refuse?
Did she pass or fail?
What about the boyfriend?
Do they have lawyers?
It is reported they are pointing the finger at each other, if this is so why is Elaina still missing when at least one of them knows where she is?

This is not going to have a good ending.
The boyfriend is an alleged junkie/ex junkie is the mom one as well?

Sus said...

C5H,
I read your comment after writing mine. I believe you are on to something. I thought Snowden did this as a political agenda, but it could be personal as you say.

I find it interesting that he had no college degree, made between $120,000 to $200,000 per year with the contract company, and feels he knows everything. He had CIA clearing as he worked for them for 3 months, but only as a tech assistant. What is that? Fixes computers? Then he went to the private company.

I wonder if he was going to be let go and this was his big show on the way out. He told his boss he needed off for epilepsy treatment. Really?

C5H11ONO said...

The political slant I observed in his statement was when he made stated that he believed in Obama's promises. He is making it appear to the listener (reader) that he had the power to withhold information which he was going to disclose sooner (I assume during the Bush years), but waited because of Obama's election. OK, he was going to wait for the sake of hope and change! He never stated that Obama broke his promises, only that he continued with the policies of his predecessor. (He holds disdain for Bush as he couldn't even bring himself to name him, but why didn't he disclose the scandal during Bush avoiding all this hullaballoo). That's why "political" reasons don't add up. If he truly wanted to stick it to the government he would have done it during the Bush era, but he didn't. I think that was when he was in collusion with the "we" in the NSA shenanigans. I believe something else happened that made him leak. Why in the world is he going public now? Look at Deep Throat and how long it took him to come out in the open. It seems that this guy wants the notoriety now while he is young instead of when he's in his deathbed. I also think he made threats to the government when he clearly stated "I have maps showing where people have been scrutinized most." I believe he has a lot more to share and hasn't. This is his safety card.

Lemon said...

Hobs I will add pink fluffy bunny ears to your tin foil hat.

If, however, someone is offended by the color pink, or bunnies, their ears, pink or otherwise, I respectfully contend I have done no such thing and I never would.

It is my very greatest wish to never offend anyone on this blog or anywhere at anytime. I would not like it at all. Never.

Anonymous said...

C5H11ONO said...
"I hate having my privacy impacted. I also don’t care if I am surveiled because I am not doing anything wrong."

Here is the problem- who gets to define what is "wrong"? How will the definition of "wrong" be changed in the future? Will it be political views? (We have already seen some political views targeted by the IRS). Will it be certain religious beliefs? Will the definition of 'wrong' apply equally to everyone? We have now allegations the State Department has been covering up allegations of illegal behavior within their own ranks.

When there are enough rules and laws, it is easy to define almost everyone as doing something "wrong." Maybe you have left light switches on when you left a room or haven't sorted all your recycling properly. If someone wants a certain person out of the way, when they can access all of that person's private communications, it shouldn't be difficult to find *something* "wrong".

I think it is important for people to recognize how this program can be abused and to have a healthy understanding of human nature. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. When those in power have the ability to look into every detail of anyone's private life (political enemies, etc), it will corrupt.

There is no point in trying to blame one political party or another, they are both complicit in this.

Every government entity should be transparent and open to oversight.

I personally do not care who Edward Snowden is or what his motivations were. He has revealed something that the public needs to know and deal with.


C5H11ONO said...

Anon 1:56 Thank you for your response. You are right. I have mixed feelings about losing my privacy over the benefit of eliminating terrorists, but there has to be a better way of doing it. I'd hate to be targetted later for whatever reason a government feels they should target a particular group. Indeed, absolute power corrupts absolutely! It seems our constitution has been shifting from its original state lately. That may explain why things are going wrong.

dadgum said...

lol Lemon..

Hobnob said...

~models snazzy new headgear~

Anonymous said...

"He has revealed something that" EVERYBODY HAS ALREADY KNOWN ABOUT FOR A THOUSAND OR MORE YEARS

EVERYBODY KNOWS GOVERNMENTS SPY AND GOVERNMENTS HAVE ENGAGED IN SPYING FOR A THOUSAND OR MORE YEARS

SPYING DID NOT BEGIN UNDER BUSH OR IN THE UNITED STATES

DUH!

Anonymous said...

SNOWDEN CLAIMS OUTRAGE OVER SPYING YET FLEES TO CHINA!

SNOWDEN CLAIMS OUTRAGE OVER SPYING YET CONSIDERS FLEEING TO RUSSIA!

SNOWDEN = MONEY HUNGRY EXCEPT HE'S DISCLOSING INFORMATION THAT EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS WHICH IS WHY US GOVERNMENT IS LAUGHING AT HIM AND CHINA DISMISSED HIM

Anonymous said...

Snowden's resume lists himself a sex-military and veteran yet military records show he was discharged after failing to complete training

No highschool diploma, no college degree, no certifications of any kind,

Human Resources FAILED to weed this dope out, govournment needs to investigate how and why this dope was hired


Dee said...

Hobnob said...
off topic and concerning

from a verified insider on the WS site

******************
Thank you for the update from the insider. I don't do WS and appreciate you letting us know what's going on in the background.
She "forgot" to mention a black eye and possibly broken nose???
Very concerning...This is not good news.

**********
Toledo News Now: What can you hope that tonight's vigil will do?

Angela: Put an end to this so she can come home. I'm hoping someone just gives up and brings her back to me and her father where she needs to be. She has problems, and me and him are the only ones that can handle those problems for her.

Why didn't the reporter catch this and ask what kind of problems?

Anonymous said...

His girlfriend is a "pole dancer."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339202/Lindsay-Mills-girlfriend-Edward-Snowden-Woman-NSA-leaker-left-member-acrobat-troupe.html

reversechapter said...

Snowden's agenda is DEFINITELY political. On the surface, he seems to be a libertarian (he respects Bradley Manning) who has become disillusioned with Obama's administration. He also wants attention; he probably tells himself he wants to "make a difference." Which of those motivations is primary? I don't know yet, but I know I'm glad he leaked the information. President Obama not only implied he would repeal most (all?) of the Patriot Act before being elected, but he also said recently we were winning the war with al Qaeda and should move away from our "post-9/11" mentality. Why continue this overreach of authority if we're winning against Islamic extremism?

The NSA program was advertised as a massive recording of the data of innocent Americans - not just foreigners as we were told - and the storage of this "meta-data" for decades. A new facility in Utah is being built to store "Yottabytes" of data. We found out about all of this from Snowden's leak. I haven't heard anything (yet) I believe should have been kept secret from the American people in a free society. Side note: Going along with the idea of allowing the government to rake in every piece of data they can pull and then filter backward/downward after getting a judge to acknowledge a connection with a suspected terrorist is naive.

If Snowden was motivated more by something OTHER than politics, like a breakup, problems with an ex-supervisor, etc., I'd consider his statement more deceptive than honest. In either case, I don't want a future government to arrest me in 2030 for something I typed in an email in 2015. "Tin foil hat," you say? Why store the data in secrecy? Why not identify the suspected terrorist first, THEN look for the data? Why has the administration not denied the reports of abuse (the plans for PRISM, the access to top secret information by tens of thousands of government employees, and other claims)? Have you ever watched Director of National Intelligence James Clapper do an interview or speak before a Congressional committee? If not, let's just say you won't use the word "deception." You'll say he's a "liar."

George Bush wanted more secrecy and power when the Patriot Act was being drafted and approved, and Congress did not allow it. President Obama makes "W" look like a communist. If the leak accurately shows what has been happening, this administration has committed the biggest violation of the Constitution of the United States in the history of our nation, and they haven't even bothered to explain their reasons yet. Maybe Snowden has been politically disillusioned as a result, and that was his primary motivation. Or maybe his girlfriend broke up with him.

Hobnob said...

I'm hoping someone just gives up and brings her back to me and her father where she needs to be

This is passive.

She hopes someone gives up.

Why would they give up

What would cause them to give up?

Why someone and not the abductor?

Is there more than one abductor?

How does she know?

Why give up and not does the right thing?

To give up implies surrender, failure to succeed, game over.

Why not say do the right thing and bring her back, why not say leave her somewhere safe like a firehouse, church, hospital anywhere?

Why does she align herself with the father when they have separated and she is reported to have refused to let him see her, even to delaying tactics then screaming if he had her she would never see her again etc.

She is pointing the finger at the b/f (and he is pointing it right back which tells me one of them at least is involved and will happily throw the other under the bus) Is she now aligning herslef with her ex in order to distance herself from the b/f and his family and also to align herself with someone who is innocent.

She claims to have passed the poly, LE are staying silent on her results which is never a good sign. if she had passed they would have announced it so the focus could then move on.

Given what i have read from a verified family member, the mom was known to abuse the children even to leaving cuts etc.

The consensus is the baby is dead and the possibility is the b/f removed her from the house and dumped her ( the running and the vomiting) is it possible she was duped nearby such as a sewer? lift a drain cover long enough to dump the body drop it down.

How can you forget to tell LE she had black eyes and a possible broken nose? when did this happen? was it in the house the night she arrived as if she turned up with Elaina looking like that then the baby would have been taken straight to ER and cops called.

I wonder if blood dogs were brought in, cadaver dogs might find something , what about luminol? if she was battered in the house their will be blood stains

Anonymous said...

His girlfriend posts nude pictures of herself online and posts videos of herself stripping online = Privacy Not Invaded

Govournment subpoenaing the cell phone records of the Boston Bombers to learn who the Bombers were comminication with since whoever they communicated with may have helped them plot the bombing: Invasion Of Privacy Execute Obama!

Film yourself fucking and upload it online = No Invasion Of Privacy

Govournment subpoenaing the cell phone records of courier of Osama Bin Laden in an effort to find Bin Laden: Invasion Of Privacy Execute Obama!

C5H11ONO said...

Reverse chapter said:
Maybe Snowden has been politically disillusioned as a result, and that was his primary motivation.

Unfortunately everything that this administration does, is ignored by the media that caters to it. This administration has definitely been transparent. They do whatever they want, to whomever, and they are blatant about what they are doing. Outrage is ignored and considered Republican banter. I didn't see outrage from all the other unconstitutional things Obama and his administration has done. It's not going to start now. The media, is part of this too and they have downplayed everything. We as a nation accept all those laws that keep getting passed right under our noses. What Obama and his cronies have done to the american people is unconscionable. He should be the one getting arrested and made to answer for his crimes against the American people.

As far as Snowden, its his word choice that is being analyzed. Now learning that his girlfriend is a pole dancer, I don't understand why he was gender neutral when speaking about relationships with other people.

As for the NSA privacy violations, the Obama adminsitration will delay answering, then they will deny knowing what was happening, then they will place blame on the previous administration, and in time, all will be made to go away. Just like the IRS targetting scandal, just like the Bengazi scandal, just like the Fast and Furious scandal, just like the ACORN scandal. It all quietly goes away.

reversechapter said...

C5H: Yeah, just looking at some of the words Peter underlined, Snowden seems to be a little self-centered. Overall, to me he comes across as intelligent. I'm not too sure about the move to Hong Kong, lol.

I'm amazed some people are equating the recording of personal information of individual users by a number of individual private companies with the aggregate storage of that total information entered by all Americans BY THE GOVERNMENT in a single storage facility and database. The possibilities are frightening if abuses are occurring. I wish someone would prove to us that Snowden IS lying.

Anonymous said...


I wouldn't worry so much about being bugged. It's been going on for ages, probably since the dawn of the invention of the telephone; beginning on a 'need to know' basis. Remember J. Edgar Hoover and all those he had bugged from his red button at the White House to his hotline, and all those who tried to tell us; from gays/lesbians, to Hollywood actors/actresses, members of Congress, to campaigning politicians to gun runners, to the buggers who bugged the bugged.

YES, big conspiricies DO exist. Why should this be so shocking? Remember Nixon and Watergate? The Feds have always been capable of bugging anyone, with key targets on those who defy the status quo of any branch of the Federal Govm't and their 'honorable' Federal judgeships. How do you think they got so crooked?

My home and office were bugged in 1991-92 during Desert Storm, when I defied and fought hard against the Marine Corps Recruitment Officers, then fought the Army and Air Force Recruitment Officers; all while knowing we were bugged.

It's not so hard to tell that you've been bugged when you go out for a dinner party, or have made other plans that no one could possibly have known about unless they were listening in on your phone conversations; and those recruitment officers are already there when you get there! Also, we were followed so many times I've lost count. They didn't even try to hide. Being aware that my phones were bugged locally, I did not attempt to disguise our phone conversations or plans and plowed ahead.

You'd be surprised to know what tactics these recruitment officers will take in an attempt to recruit a young man who tests among the highest recruitment scores. They fight to get them; they follow you, harrass you, call you numerous times over and over; and that's not all, they made it so attractive that my son wanted to go at the time so I had a fight on my hands with both him and the military recruitment officers.

However, I had an old law from WW1 to fall back on, did, and won; which goes something like this: 'No branch of the U S Military shall take the oldest or only surviving son at the home of a widow should she not agree to allow him to go into the military'.... or words to that affect; which I used and DID protest. After Desert Storm was over, my son got down on his knees and thanked me for forbidding him to join any branch of the U.S. Military.

Needless to say, my phones have been bugged off and on ever since, very obviously so once during a civil trial I was involved with before a Federal District Judge when there was a large amount of money at stake; and I knew I was bugged. There wasn't one thing I could do about it when I would meet with my lawyer and he already knew my decisions in certain matters that we had not previously discussed, including banking matters.

I don't care. Bugg away to your hearts' content. It's all a waste of time unless someone is out to do you in, or if you have a legal leg to stand on in pursuit of your anti-government issue, or a lot of money is at stake.

I'm concluding that those doing all the bugging aren't doing such a good job, otherwise they would have already known that Edward Snowden would become a defector, a traitor, and would commit treason against the United States of America; which thing they most likely fear the most is that he will spout off some credibility to the words and warnings of Micheal Moore; which amazes me that Moore hasn't already met with foul play. Snowden has clearly placed this country and its' security at high risk in certain political arenas, with more to come; yet our Feds were unaware that he had this capability. He's a dead man walking. Observer

Anonymous said...

Snowden lies about many things

He does not want to live in a country that spies yet not only fled to China but considered fleeing to Russia and is currently considering Russia's offer of sanctuary, not to mention governments have been spying since the inception of time

Snowden's resume lists himself a ex-military and veteran yet military records show he was discharged because he failed to complete basic training: he was not military, let alone ex-military, let alone a "war veteran"

His supervisor forcibly put him on medical leave but methinks the reason was not really medical, it was a reason to temporarily remove Snowden from work because something else was going on and the supervisor opened the door for Snowden to depart on his own time.

Temporary medical leave with pay meant indefinite medical leave with pay meant all the time in the world for Snowden to find a new job without losing pay and benefits.

For whatever reason Snowden flipped. Proving the supervisor was correct to give him the boot.

hobnobs an angry termite said...

"Ilike biscuits"proof proof ok.

Sus said...

The more I'm looking at Snowden's words and thinking about Prism, the more I believe he was on the verge of being fired for inappropriate behavior himself, and he took the preemptive step.

The potential for misuse of the cyber data collected is unlimited. The NSA contracted with a company that employed Snowden...a high-school dropout, had a ged, no college, a few computer classes, drop out in the military, lied on his applications, girlfriend thinks she's a spy. My God...this is who the NSA let sift through our communications??!!.

Look at Snowden's own words. I think it is him, and maybe some other employees, who inappropriately went through cyber communications needlessly.

"that allows it to intercept ALMOST everything..."
That doesn't say they are. What is meant by almost?

"If I want to see your emails OR YOUR WIFE'S PHONE all I have to do is use intercepts."
We don't speak in a vacuum. What brought up your wife? Again, he's not saying they did use intercepts, only that they could.

"I can get your emails, ..."
He is telling us what he can do, not what anyone did.

The introductory question is all about capability and misuse, not how the system is actually used. I have to wonder if Snowden is the person who misused the system.

Anonymous said...

Also Sus, in reviewing again his answers to the questions asked, I do not read where he gave one direct yes or no answer to any one question. I see where he gave a lot of indirect and rambling answers to the questions asked. Or did I miss one? Observer

Nic said...

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Whereas the initiation of Prism might have had the best of intentions in the beginning, as things evolved and administrations change, so does intent. Any "cause" can be justified. Having that much information on *everybody* at one time on a continuum is unjustifiable and unnecessary regardless if one has something to hide or not. There are privacy laws protected under the constitution and the gov't is **out of bounds**.

Case in point, while the arguement for Prism is "terrorism" why wasn't "Prism" capable of intervening in the the Boston bombing? Supposedly the gov't knew about those guys for a long time and all the gov't agency/ies did was sit back and watch.

So that leaves me with a couple of questions: 1) Why just sit back and watch it happen? 2) If they didn't know about that impending act of terrorism, (the bombers were in communication with "friends" and family abroad, etc., so monitoring them would fall within the supposed parameters of Prism,) then what's the point of letting it happen? Could it be that the government is lying about intent/mandate?

jmo

Nic said...

Anonymous at June 10 12:46PM said:

[snip]GOOGLE IS NOTORIOUS FOR TRACKING AND RECORDING EVERY KEYBOARD STROKE AND SITE CLICK AND MOUSE HOVER YOU MAKE. EVERY INTERNET BROWSWER - CHROME, FIREFOX, SEAMONKEY - TRACKS AND RECORDS EVERY KEYBOARD STROKE AND SITE CLICK AND MOUSE HOVER YOU MAKE. YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM TRACKS AND RECORDS EVERY MOVE YOU MAKE. AND THEY TRACK AND RECORD FOR HUNDREDS OF REASONS, TO ENHANCE AND IMPROVE AND INNOVATE THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES, TO CREATE NEW PRODUCTS AND SERVICES, TO LEARN YOUR POSTING PATTERNS IN ORDER TO BETTER SPAM YOU WITH SALES ADVERTISEMENTS, AND SO ON.

YOU'RE A FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT IDIOT TO PRETEND THIS IS AN ISSUE WHEN IT'S NOT. [end snip]


In this case the intent is to market something to you based on behavior. Whereas what the gov't is doing is taking it a step further and capturing phone calls of *everyone*, email, etc., etc. which can all be taken out of context and used against you if they want. [You] could be six degrees of separation from some criminal and not even know it and it can be used against you.

Case in point. A friend's relative by marriage posted a picture of herself smoking a bong with her boyfriend. My friend was called into security and almost lost her security clearance because of something she had no knowledge of, let alone participation in. They gave her a serious third degree and she was under "investigation" (and almost lost her livelihood) because they were of the mind "birds of a feather". They didn't even live under the same roof!

Anonymous, Prism is *wrong* on so many levels. The Fourth Amendment outlines all the why's and why the government has kept this under wraps and why every entity capturing information for the government LIED about doing it.

http://teaching.about.com/od/law/ss/Search-And-Seizure-In-Schools.htm

Fourth Amendment

The Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution protects citizens from unreasonable searches and seizures. The Fourth Amendment states, “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

The purpose of the Fourth Amendment is to uphold the privacy and security of individual persons against subjective invasions by the government and its officials. When the government violates an individual’s “expectation of privacy”, then an unlawful search has occurred. An individual’s “expectation of privacy” can be defined as whether the individual expects their actions will be free from government intrusion.

The Fourth Amendment requires that searches meet a “reasonableness standard.” Reasonableness can weighted on the circumstances surrounding the search and by measuring the search’s overall intrusive nature against the legitimate interests of the government. A search will be unreasonable any time the government cannot prove that it was necessary. The government must show that there was “probable cause” for a search to be deemed “Constitutional”.

Anonymous said...

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Whereas the initiation of Prism might have had the best of intentions in the beginning, as things evolved and administrations change, so does intent. Any "cause" can be justified. HAVING THAT MUCH INFORMATION ON *everybody* at one time on a continuum is unjustifiable...and stupid expensive! If more in the government learned SCAN more crimes would be solved!

Anonymous said...

Does it really matter, at this point, if his credentials were legitimate or not? The fact remains that the government overstepped it's authority. And in doing so, it has come to light that laws, in the form of constitutional amendments were broken. Perhaps he did lie about his education. The fact that the government continues to flood the news media with inconsequential facts regarding Snowden highlights their attempt to put up a smokescreen around NSA activities against the American public. Spying is essential in the world of international conflict. But when that necessity is expanded by our government to the point where the constitutional rights of potentially all Americans are violated, then Snowden has done what all of us should do. The Federalist Papers, written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay promoting ratification of the constitution are clear and unequivocal :

"If the federal government should overpass the just bounds of its authority and make a tyrannical use of its powers, the people, whose creature it is, must appeal to the standard they have formed, and take such measures to redress the injury done to the Constitution as the exigency may suggest and prudence justify."

Perhaps Snowden went about this the wrong way…. perhaps not. A whistle blower walks a fine line. It is still not too late for the people of this country to take measures to redress this injury done to the constitution as Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay have put before us

Anonymous said...

thanks for share........