Thursday, September 5, 2013

Dee Dee Spicher Given Immunity


Dede Spicher says she passed polygraph, has immunity in Kyron case

The latest development in the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman involves Dede Spicher, a close friend of Kyron’s stepmom Terri Horman.
In an online article, Dede Spicher claims she has passed a polygraph, signed an immunity deal with prosecutors, and agreed to "tell all" before the grand jury investigating the case.
Those new details were first reported in theonline blog blinkoncrime.com.
This is the first time Dede Spicher, a close friend of Terri Horman, has spoken publicly about the case.
Spicher spoke exclusively to the website’s editor-in-chief but KGW independently confirmed the interview took place.
In the article, Spicher says she's been unfairly portrayed and that she has been cooperative with investigators. She says her only request was that her attorney be present during police interviews, and that her account has never wavered.
Spicher claims she had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance and she was at work the day he disappeared from skyline school on June 4, 2010.
Spicher says she was first called before a Multnomah County grand jury in July of 2010, but prosecutors never asked her any questions.
Two months ago, she appeared again, this time testifying for five and a half hours. Afterward, she agreed to take a lie detector test.
"She passed a polygraph, you know, confirming everything that she has been saying which frankly everything she has been saying for the past three and a half years was true," said S. Christina Stoy, Editor in Chief of blinkoncrime.com in an interview with KGW.
The online article says that, as recently as last week, investigators talked to Dede Spicher about conducting a sting on Terri Horman. Spicher declined.
Spicher says she hasn't spoke with Kyron's stepmother in three years, and she doesn't believe Terri is responsible.

****Please note:  Immunity signifies that one has need for immunity against prosecution

200 comments:

Bayou belle said...

Another case dragging on and on and......Kyron...Hailey Dunn...it's very disheartening....prayers to the families and may all those innocent victims rest in peace?WHY isn't Thorman being charged for the murder for hire solicitation on Kyrons father?Ridiculous!!!!

Trigger said...

Maybe Dee Dee's testimony before the grand jury will bring justice for Kyron.

Giving Dee Dee immunity was a smart move. This will help Kyron's case. I hope that this move will give LE some more strength in solving it.

Dee Dee may have been used by a desperate killer.

Suzanne said...

Peter said: Please note: Immunity signifies that one has need for immunity against prosecution.

Maybe it's because she doesn't want to be prosecuted for not coming forward on her own with whatever knowledge she had of the disappearance/murder.

Anne said...

I agree, immunity means she needs immunity for something. I am glad there is a chance this case might have some movement forward, but frustrated that people like Spicer feel safe holding back information.
It's hard to believe the police would think she had been uncooperative this long without reason. I can't help thinking Spicer is taking care of Spicer.

Just seems the best way to get away with murder is hide the body where it can't be found, not cooperate with investigations and let time pass. This is becoming the best defense against murder for all these killers. I again suggest there needs to be some sort of chain of custody report, if a child is with you, you are responsible to cooperate and know where the child is!
To me Spicer should be in trouble right along with the stepmom. I know she is needed for the case, its just sad Spicer gets a get out of jail free card, when she didn't cooperate in a missing child case immediately. Don't even know how she can live with herself.

On another note, she seems very smart in the way she has handled herself legally.

Peter Hyatt said...

Suzanne,

that is my hunch, as well.

Peter

S + K Mum said...

Is this the reason Desiree called off her suit against Terri Horman? And is this the reason searchers were out at the weekend?
She appears to have all-of-a-sudden gained a conscience?! Or worried she'd be next in line for Desiree. I think Terri will be very worried. I don't buy 'Dee Dee doesn't believe Terri is responsible'. I think that is info only for the investigators, and she can't tell the world, just yet.

Hoping with everything this is going to be the break Desiree desperatly needs to find her baby boy.

Skip said...

I don't blame her for wanting legal protection... it's just a guess but I'm thinking she didn't come forward before due to fear of her own life.

It does suck to see these cases play out slowly. It must be especially tough for the families. But the perps have to live with the what if's of being found out, every single day and night. So they have physical freedom, but mental torture.

Shelley said...

For someone that has no knowledge of what happened to Kyron, how on earth could she be “testifying for five and a half hours”?

That is a very long time for someone that knows “nothing” unless they just had hundreds of questions which she replied she knows nothing about.

Something about that to me says she does now something.

And, well, immunity would have to be for a reason. They are not going to just give her immunity for having no information about anything at all.

She clearly knows something and has told them.


And maybe Madeline McCanns parents could take a tip from Desiree. She is out there actually looking for her child or at least something to help find out what happened. The Mccanns just continue to just keep the case active to the public with out doing a dam thing to find their child. Which is why aside from SA showing their deception, I believe to this day they were responsible. I think it was an “accident” if you can call drugging your child to make them sleep an “accident”.

But it amazes me to this day that they have so many supporters despite the danger they put those kids in by leaving them alone.

I did look, England does not have any specific age by law that kids must have an adult present so that explains why no charges were filed but still, so much support as if they were good parents. Good parents would NEVER leave 2 and 3 year olds alone. I have a 5 year old and the longest I have left him alone was to run across the street to check the mail. I would never go hang out for the evening even next door. If he is too far away for me to hear him if he needs me, its too far.



UK LAW STATES THIS:
The law doesn’t say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.
Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone.
The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:
• children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
• children under 16 shouldn’t be left alone overnight
• babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone

Shelley said...

According to Wikepedia:

Immunity from prosecution occurs when a prosecutor grants immunity, usually to a witness in exchange for testimony or production of other evidence.

It is immunity because the prosecutor essentially agrees to never prosecute the crime that the witness might have committed in exchange for said evidence.



So, she is given immunity in exchange for:

"in exchange for testimony or production of other evidence"


This is not someone who knows nothing at all.

Shelley said...

According to Wikepedia:

Immunity from prosecution occurs when a prosecutor grants immunity, usually to a witness in exchange for testimony or production of other evidence.

It is immunity because the prosecutor essentially agrees to never prosecute the crime that the witness might have committed in exchange for said evidence.



So, she is given immunity in exchange for:

"in exchange for testimony or production of other evidence"


This is not someone who knows nothing at all.

Anonymous said...

I read the blinkoncrime article last night and didn't believe a word of it! She's got too many well-rehearsed explanations.

A-1

Anonymous said...

I've read a lot about this case, and I feel it makes no sense that Terri and DeeDee were involved.
Name ONE logical reason Terri would have picked the science fair as the location to kidnap Kyron. Also, explain how noone saw anything--Terri leaving with Kyron or Kyron leaving the school with anyone.
What I have wondered because of the fact that NOONE saw either one leaving Terri or Kyron (now, with Terri leaving it might now catch as much attention when an adult is leaving but seeing a student at the school leave the school during school hours would catch someone's attention) could someone have locked him up somewhere in the school until after school hours??? Otherwise, why would someone not have seen him leave???
Also, what about the fact that Kyron told his friend he was going (outside or upstairs?) to see some kind of science project? Is this valid? Because if so, wow, how does it then get pinned on Terri if maybe some perv lured him by saying there is some cool science project he should go see???

Shelley said...

Dede was quoted as stating the following to People magazine.

Peter, anyone able to analyze.



"If I thought for a second that she was capable of [foul play], I would not have been there. She would not have been my friend in the first place."
Spicher, 43, said she does not think Moulton Horman was involved in Kyron's disappearance.

"I just really don't. In my heart, I really don't. In all of these years [as her friend], I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe that she is capable or motivated in any way to do something like this."

Katprint said...

Frequently, people who have hidden/destroyed evidence or lied under oath to police or otherwise aided and abetted the main perpetrator negotiate an immunity deal when they come clean, to avoid being prosecuted for their prior False Statements or Perjury or any type of accomplice or accessory after the fact type of crimes.

For example, Scott Dyleski's mother Esther Fielding did not participate in her son's murder of Pamela Vitale but afterwards she lied for him and she burned and destroyed incriminating evidence. She was arrested as an accessory to murder after the fact but made an immunity deal in exchange for her truthful testimony against her son.

OTOH, even after her deal, Esther Fielding didn't do particularly well providing truthful testimony against her son. She personifies the term "passive aggressive." Luckily there was overwhelming physical evidence left at the crime scene.

It will be interesting to see what Dee Dee is willing to say about her (former?) friend.

Hobnob said...

Off topic BBM

Coronation Street actor Michael Le Vell has told a court he's "like a lost soul" and "fighting" for his life after being accused of child sex abuse.

Giving evidence on the fourth day of his trial at Manchester Crown Court, he said: "I'm devastated. I am lost. I don't know where this has come from. It has left such a hole in my life. I am like a lost soul."

Asked about the rape allegations he said: "I promise you, never in a million years would I do anything like that ever."

Le Vell said the alleged victim had a "tendency to lie" after the court heard him describe her in police interviews as a "silly girl" who is "seriously deluded".

"I think it was one of those lies that just escalated and she couldn't stop it," he told the court.

Earlier the court had been hearing details of four interviews the star, who plays car mechanic Kevin Webster in the ITV soap, gave to police after his arrest.

After the actor was accused of rape by the alleged victim's mother, he told police: "When she told me you could have just blew me over. My legs just went to jelly."

The 48-year-old continued: "I just said to the girl's mother, 'Please tell me you are f****** joking. Please, this has got to be a joke'. I was in total shock."

Later in the police interview the officer said Le Vell said: "This is a life changing thing. It will cost me my job."

During the interviews, he said the alleged victim's mother "thinks I am the devil reincarnated".

Le Vell is accused of 12 charges in all - five counts of rape, three of indecent assault, two counts of sexual activity with a child and two of causing a child to engage in sexual activity.

The alleged offences relate to one complainant and are said to have taken place between September 2002 and September 2010.

Le Vell told the court he had never been arrested or cautioned before.

Asked about his drinking, he admitted he was "an alcoholic" and had twice tried Alcoholics Anonymous without success.

Earlier in the trial, the court heard Le Vell was alleged to have raped the girl while she clutched a teddy bear during one attack.

The girl, who cannot be named for legal reasons, wept as she told the court that Le Vell told her it was their "little secret".

But Le Vell told police: "I did not rape her and I certainly did not try to smother her."

Le Vell, who lives in Hale, Cheshire, is charged under his real name of Michael Turner.

He denies all the charges and has called the claims "an absolute pack of lies".

:: A man has been arrested and bailed over publicly identifying Le Vell's alleged victim in a tweet.

--------

"I promise you, never in a million years would I do anything like that ever."
Never does not mean did not.
When someone says something along the lines, of honestly, honest to god, on my whoever's life, invokes a god, or i promise, they are not being truthful, it is used to convinve the veracity of the statement.
For there to be a that there has to be a thin, if he didn't do that, what did he do?

"I did not rape her and I certainly did not try to smother her."
The statement is weakened by the addition of the qualifier certainly.
Given his earlier denial which was weak, i would ask if he had sexual contact with her, if he touched her outside her clothes inappropriately and if he touched her inappropriately inside her clothes, if he touched her when she was naked etc.
I would ask his definition of rape,it is entirely possiible that if she didn't struggle or say no, he saw it as consent and thus not rape regardless of her age.

Yukari said...

It´s not too long ago that she refused to answer over 140 questions by pleading the Fifth. NOT, say, because the answers were nobody´s business (as may be the case when she is asked if she had sex with Terri) BUT by pleading the Fifth!

The Fifth Amendment provides that "no person...shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

**against himself** - not against anyone else! So this is not about not wanting to implicate Terri.

In whatever way the answers to those 142 questions may be incriminating to Dede - is is probably not merely a case of "not coming forward with information", this looks like more. A lot more.

The deposition and the questions can be read here:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/10/terri_hormans_friend_dede_spic.html

There is a story there between the lines. Sometimes no answer is a very obvious answer.

Jo said...

"If I thought for a second that she was capable of [foul play], I would not have been there. She would not have been my friend in the first place."

They are no longer friends, hasn't spoken to her in 3 years. Seems to me that says a lot.

Hobnob said...

"If I thought for a second that she was capable of [foul play], I would not have been there. She would not have been my friend in the first place."
Spicher, 43, said she does not think Moulton Horman was involved in Kyron's disappearance.

"I just really don't. In my heart, I really don't. In all of these years [as her friend], I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe that she is capable or motivated in any way to do something like this."


Just is used to minimise something, weakening in this case her statement about involvement.
She refers to her heart which is the seat of emotions, she makes no reference to the head which is the seat of logic.
Emotionally she doesn't think terri could be the killer, logically (and with the information she knows) she may know otherwise hence the need for immunity.

A secret is no longer a secret once shared with another person especially with a crime such as murder. Guilt eats away at the heart and there is always the fear of the dreaded early morning knock on the door or worse, that the killer will blame them instead.

Answering questions for 5 plus hours doesn't indicate no knowledge or information, they wouldn't bother if all they were getting is no comment or pleading the 5th. The obvious conclusion is she was divulging information, information that warranted an immunity deal.

Terri now has to worry about what dede divulged, She cannot now use blackmail or threats to control dede since dede is now immunr, the blame will fall solely on terri's shoulders.

Will this be enough to warrant terri confessing after a plea deal?

we shall have to wait and see.

~mj said...

ONE logical reason that Terri would have picked the science fair as the location to kidnap Kyron is the fact that it WAS the science fair. I am not sure if you have ever been to an elementary school's science fair, but it is very chaotic. The morning drop to any elementary school can be quite chaotic in and of itself, parents coming and going, children going in many different directions. Now add the science fair to the mix, more parents, siblings, grandparents etc. Yes, I realize this also speaks to the fact that since there were more adults there then it stands to reason that perhaps that would increase the risk of some perv being involved. However, here is the problem with that:

A perv that was not a regular around the school would be risking a lot to try and nab someone. Non-familiar face are watched closely by staff and parents alike. A perv that everyone one would know isn't likely to "piss in his own backyard" -

This was planned. It is highly likely that Kyron could enter the science fair, even go and see this "cool" exhibit and walk right back out to the truck on his own, without anyone thinking it odd, and therefore not recall it later. When you have dozens of kids coming and going, a child walking back to the truck, with or without mom in tow would not stand out in your memory. That is a simple fact. You are assuming that since no one can say for certain if they saw Terri and Kyron that that must mean that "no one saw them" It could also mean, that they did in fact "see" them, but that the "seeing" did not stand out in their memories as important enough to retain that memory.

Now add to it that during the science fair kids and parents are using back doors, side doors, fronts doors. Terri parked on the side and would have likely used a side entrance. Terri also told the teacher about a doctor appointment for Kyron. The teacher claims Terri lead her to believe it was that day, while Terri claims she notified the teacher about the appointment but said it was for another day. However, the teacher said because Terri told her it was that day, she did not find it suspect that Kyron was not in class and therefore no call home to report the child absent. Tell me, which sounds more reasonable, the teacher was informed that Kyron would not be in class that day and no call was placed home, OR the school HAPPENED to drop the ball on procedure on the same exact day that Kyron gets kidnapped? What are the odds?

If the science fair took place before classes it is perfectly reasonable to consider that Terri brought Kyron to school, made their appearance, and left during the 8:45-9 time slot before classes started. As far as LE has allowed the public to know, the only one that states for certain that Kyron was seen inside the building moments before classes started, was Terri. Students, parents, teachers have all stated they saw him, but cannot confirm what time exactly. In fact their statements have varied slightly. Also, you appear to be putting too much weight on the released testimony of his peers. While they can be "right" - we are talking about a window of time that if the eye-witness were off by 5 mins it would make all the difference. Again, I ask, is it not reasonable to consider that Kyron's peers may not tell-time perfectly on, or even be much aware of the time at all?

A stranger abduction is certainly a viable possibility, but the chips stack way too high for Terri and that simply cannot be ignored. I could list many details, but the main one that stands out is this:

What innocent person do you know would voluntarily lose custody of their baby all to avoid testifying? All she has to do is answer questions in court to regain visitations at the least. But she refuses, at the cost of not seeing her own child, for three years... that speaks volumes.

Anonymous said...

Hasn't "spoken" to her in 3 years? Have they communicated in any other way (e-mail, texts, letters)?

Skeptical said...

Dee Dee Spicer said, "If I thought for a second that she was capable of [foul play], I would not have been there." What does Dee Dee Spicer mean by 'there'? To me, 'there' denotes a specific location. Did she slip and disclose that she and Teri Horman left Kyron's body somewhere?

BostonLady said...

"I just really don't. In my heart, I really don't. In all of these years [as her friend], I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe that she is capable or motivated in any way to do something like this."

***

Minimizes the belief by saying "just" and "in my heart". If she believed her, it would not be "just in her heart".

I agree also that not speaking with someone for 3 years who is a suspect, implies a lot.

If either Terri or Spicher were innocent, they would not lawyer up and not help find Kyron. They have something to hide and I really hope this is the end and the dominoes fall.

It's so sad that the adults can just stop talking and nothing can be done. If they were responsible for the care of the child, they should be held responsible if they go missing and they are not helping.

Anonymous said...

DeDe is actually in a worse position than Terri is if she has knowledge that Terri caused Kyrons' disappearance, kidnapping, and/or murder. If DeDe knows anything incriminating she'd better watch her step and keep her mouth shut.

If Terri killed once, or even threatened too, then she could (and would) do it again. I would be shaking in my shoes if I were DeDe and I knew what Terri had done, or had an inkling; even knowing that she schemed to have Kyrons' dad killed is dangerous information for someone like DeDe who may have already known too much. She needs to maintain a large distance between herself and Terri at all times.

People are in a very dangerous position who know that someone has murdered or had a hand in murdering someone else. They could be next.

rob said...

IMO- DeDe has broken off the friendship with Teri, because she knows something, and doesn't want to go down for what Terri did.
She has an attorney, who has worked her up a nice tidy deal, and hopefully she has spilled her guts.
It would be hard to live, never knowing if today would be the day, it all blew up in your face.

Bonnie Blue said...

to go along w/MJ above:
Kyron did go to the Science Fair. We know he was there because there was a picture posted of him that was taken of him standing in front of his project:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/10/terri_hormans_friend_dede_spic.html

There was probably a time-stamp on the camera so LE would know at the very least that this was the last time he was known to be at a certain place & time (whether anyone remembers it or not).

Remember that DeDe's immunity could be from being prosecuted for something as simple as "obstruction of justice". Meaning that she may hold one small piece of information that could have made Terri look bad, but not necessarily proving guilt in itself. For example, let's say for sake of argument that she was aware that Terri did go to that Island (where they have focused past searches for Kyron). Let's say DeDe saw Terry cross a bridge, or maybe even passed her or ran in to her on the island?

Would that be important to LE? Yes! But maybe this lady really believed Terri was being unfairly targeted and didn't want to make matters worse. Maybe she didn't see Kyron w/Terri while crossing the bridge so she took it upon herself to decide not release what she knew reasoning to herself that she didn't see Kyron w/her & so Terri wasn't guilty anyhow.

She could therefore be charged for obstruction (or I'm sure other things stemming from this). Look at all of the wasted hours that her withholding this important info. would have caused.

I don't think she was directly involved with poor little Kyron's demise, but, I do believe she holds the key to the direction LE could have taken in finding Kyron quickly (not to mention justice).

JMO

Anonymous said...

Re: Shelley's post about leaving children alone in the UK.
It is an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk - the child is missing so I would guess that they have committed an offence - if a missing child is not at risk then I'm the Queen! It is a very good question as to why they (McCanns) have never been charged with anything. It's infuriating! What does the law in Portugal say about the same? If it's against the law there, they should have been charged there since that is where the offence occurred.
An example of leaving a child alone in the UK, placing them at risk: 15 year old child left at home for a couple of hours. A bottle of alcohol in the kitchen which the child could drink = chargeable offence. Madeleine McCann has been missing for 6 years yet no charges, no evidence of abduction, negligent parents cashing in and a biased British media.

Light The Way said...

"...Tell me, which sounds more reasonable, the teacher was informed that Kyron would not be in class that day and no call was placed home, OR the school HAPPENED to drop the ball on procedure on the same exact day that Kyron gets kidnapped? What are the odds?"

---------------

The odds of ANY particular child being in a situation like that of Kyron Horman's, is astronomically low. No matter who is at fault.
But, it happened to him none the less.

Also, you are assuming that the school followed proper procedure and only "dropped the ball" this once.

(***For argument's sake***):

It is POSSIBLE that the school was habitually lax in following such procedures, and some offender in the area knew it, saw the science fair announced on the school marquis board, and took his opportunity to grab a kid.

I don't know what to believe about this case anymore, except to say that its investigation has been misshandled from day one.

So sad for the little boy at the middle of this circus :(

Lemon said...

Anon @ 2:33-

Good question.

~mj said...

Whether the school followed procedure or not on a regular basis is certainly an important question to be answered. That is an excellent point.

This highlights the benefit of living so close to this particular case. Although, I do not know the family personally, I do have first-hand knowledge of the schools reputation. Just because of my proximity. As I am sure is with other cases for other commentors.

You are also very correct that this case is a circus and it is terribly sad when a child's life is caught up in it.

Also, as with other comments, I think it is repugnant the pattern we are seeing with various adults in this case, as is with others, when they refuse to talk. I firmly believe at times there is a real need for counsel to protect your rights. What I do not believe in is using said system that is designed to protect your rights as a way of averting discomfort. Did Terri do it? Maybe yes, maybe no. Is she pleading the 5th because there is something else she doesn't want getting out for reasons of embarrassment or legal repercussions? Perhaps, we couldn't possibly say for sure, but one thing is for sure: it is disgusting that she doesn't just accept responsibility for whatever it is that she is trying to protect by pleading the 5th. Say she is innocent, what if there is some detail she has that she may think is insignificant bjut could help? She won't even allow for the possibility by staying silent. But then again, she may be pleading the 5th for any entirely different and more sinister reason...

That isn't to say that I have not also allowed for the possibility that I may not be understanding another reason to plead the 5th in her case...I am open to ideas.

Anonymous said...

MJ--
I appreciate your answer to my question.
You say "because it was the science fair and it was so chaotic", however, is there ANY other kidnapping situation where the kidnapper has 1st brought the victim into a crowded public place where attendance will be taken within (what are we talking here 15 minutes?) BEFORE KIDNAPPING THEM?
Has it ever happened? Ever??? Because it seems to defy any type of logic where the kidnapper usually is preying on someone when noone is around (Molly Bish case), or seeking to lure them away from people.
In my opinion, it is not possible at this point, as you are saying, that someone "saw" Kyron leaving but didn't take note of it. Since every parent has been interviewed by police, if they knew who Kyron was, they would have delved into their memory to say "oh yeah I did see him". The point being, after every parent has been questioned, it is unlikely anyone saw him leave, so this is what I am looking at.
With the school dropping the ball on attendance, I don't find it hard to believe that the teacher actually did get confused, that when she noticed him missing, she probably remembered Terri saying something about an upcoming doctor's appointment and thought "oh well it must have been today that he has his appointment and that is why he is not here".
As far as a perv being there, it is possible. It could be some random perv that just walked in to see the science fair. Or, who's to say it couldn't be someone within the school???
All I know is I wonder if there has EVER been any case where a kidnapper has first brought their victim to a crowded public place where someone is going to actually be taking attendance and notice the person missing within minutes BEFORE KIDNAPPING THEM!?!?
It makes no sense of any kind. And while I am willing to believe Terri could be a diabolical sociopath, this plan people are proposing she came up with, makes no sense AT ALL!

C5H11ONO said...

You can't plead the fifth when you testify in a grand jury. When you testify in the grand jury you have immunity. That explains the 5 hours she testified there, but the "no" answers in her depositions with Desire's attorneys. She spoke in the grand jury. She may have to have plead the fifth in the depositions maybe because the grand jury indictment remains sealed.
--If I recall correctly there have been very few cases where a person in a grand jury refused to testify. One is the lady that was friends with the Clintons. She had a prison sentence for not testifying. I know of another one, but shall take the fifth on providing details. Hmmmmmm. I believe the charge is Criminal Contempt.

Maryann Gilli said...

Unfortunately, Christina Stoy (a.k.a. Blink on Crime a.k.a. a known fraud - Google it if you don't believe me) failed to ask Dede several key questions which may have helped in her quest to clear her name. Answering Stoy's softball questions, and refusing requests by the media, etc., for a no-holds-barred interview has only served to increase the suspicion upon Dede, not diminish it.

Peter, I hope you're planning to do a more detailed analysis of Dede's statement.

Maryann Gilli said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Maryann Gilli said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Maryann Gilli said...

(Apologies for the duplicate posts.)

~mj said...

You make a good point about the teacher noticing him gone and inferring the rest. That is a valid possibility.

Also, I am willing to accept that it would be quite nervy of someone (Terri in this case) to tell the teacher he won't be in class and just "hope" that no one calls from the school. I personally have received an automated call from the school multiple times, even after I have excused my child's absence. So there is that.

As to whether it makes sense or not to go to a public place first...perhaps, if she is the culprit, she wanted to be seen. She couldn't blame it on a stranger abduction if he was with her the whole time and everyone knew he was. She would have needed a place where he could go and that people would see him and then time would pass before his having been "kidnapped" came to light. The science fair fits the bill for that. Let's say for arguments sake that someone did see him go back to the truck that morning with Terri, she could have easily said "yea, because he forgot his backpack etc... but I saw him go back inside" So her being there too would pose no problem at all. I just think back to my sons last year science fair and I am telling you, a science fair is the perfect place to be seen, without being seen. It not only would be the way to infer stranger abduction, but whatever eye-witness may come forward it is the perfect setting to cast doubt on any persons recollection of it.

I do not negate that a perv "could have" done this. I merely am making the point that based on what the public knows, it is thin at best. I put a lot of emphasis on what the public knows though. LE did a presser awhile back where the Sergeant practically choked back tears in forming the sentence that "what they have found out since investigating this case has been very disturbing" so I reckon there is a lot that we don't know yet.

Jo said...

Anon said:
Since every parent has been interviewed by police, if they knew who Kyron was, they would have delved into their memory to say "oh yeah I did see him". The point being, after every parent has been questioned, it is unlikely anyone saw him leave, so this is what I am looking at.

I think he was removed during the science fair knowing he would not be missed until everyone returned to their classrooms. If the call was placed to the parents at that point, Terri would be at the gym or running errands. I thinks she thought his absence would be noticed sooner than it was.
How often did they both go to the bus stop to get Kyron? What was normal procedure for alerting teachers to upcoming appts - I would think a written note.

When Dee Dee says "I wouldn't have been there" I think she was called for help and didn't realize until she was in the middle of it what she had gotten herself pulled into.

I think it more likely that someone would have noticed him leaving under force or with a stranger than with his own step-mother.
I can't imagine he was kept in the school until after hours. I would assume the school was searched as soon as the parents realized he did not come home on the bus. So the perp would not take a chance of trying to remove him after school knowing there would be more attention on finding him at that point during the day.

mara (read daily, post rarely) said...

@Yukari's post on September 5th at 1:18pm

Yukari said...
It´s not too long ago that she refused to answer over 140 questions by pleading the Fifth. NOT, say, because the answers were nobody´s business (as may be the case when she is asked if she had sex with Terri) BUT by pleading the Fifth!

The Fifth Amendment provides that "no person...shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

**against himself** - not against anyone else! So this is not about not wanting to implicate Terri.

In whatever way the answers to those 142 questions may be incriminating to Dede - is is probably not merely a case of "not coming forward with information", this looks like more. A lot more.


My thinking is that she is guilty of possibly withholding, concealing or destroying evidence after the fact. I always thought that DeDe pled the 5th questions to protect herself against those things, which are serious crimes by themselves.
But I never thought she was involved in the crime itself. It sounds like you do? If so, can I ask what have you read or heard that makes you think DeDe was an active participant?
Just curious,
~mara

Picked a name said...

Anonymous 12:21, there are so many other points besides the location of Kyron's last known whereabouts that play into this. What innocent stepmother refuses to cooperate when her stepson disappears? None, I'd venture. And what innocent parent is so dead-set on not cooperating in an investigation of where her missing stepson is that she will *give up custody of her own toddler* to avoid questioning? That's enough for me right there.

Anonymous said...

OT: An unconfirmed post on Facebook has stated missing 1-year-old Elaina Steinfurth was found deceased on Thursday.

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/23353801/facebook-posts-say-elaina-found-dead

Bigmtn said...

The fact the DeDe was missing for a period of time and could not be reached on her cell phone is hinky. The fact she plead the 5th and her statement that "if she thought for one second that Terri was capable of foul play I would not have been there. Been where. That stands out to me.

Anonymous said...

DeDe was missing for a period of time

Maybe she was baby-sitting Kitty?

Hobnob said...

Off topic BBM

TOLEDO -- Lucas County Coroner Dr. James Patrick has confirmed to WNWO that a box containing "apparent human remains" was removed from a home where a missing toddler, Elaina Steinfurth, was last seen in June.

An official autopsy is scheduled for Friday morning, but Patrick said that it may take several weeks to definitely determine the identity of the remains. However, Patrick said his office may be able to speed the process up with help from the state.

Sources at the scene in east Toledo, where box was recovered, said the evidence was taken from inside a detached garage at 704 Federal Street. The home is the former residence of Steven King, the ex-boyfriend of Elaina's mother, Angela Steinfurth, and has already been previously searched by Toledo Police and federal officials several times.

The home where the remains were discovered is also just feet away from where dozens have gathered for more than three months to hold vigils praying for Baby Elaina's return.

Elaina's Father, T.J. Steinfurth, said the details surrounding Thursday's discovery makes him 'Irate" but did not reveal what police said to him during a meeting this afternoon. "It's hard to be optimistic now," said Steinfurth.

Toledo Police are scheduled to hold a press conference Friday morning to discuss findings from the Thursday search of King's home. VIEW press conference live Friday beginning at 10:30 a.m. on WNWO and northwestohio.com.

The news follows two hours of breaking developments in the case and follows a Thursday morning court appearance by Steven King on an obstruction of justice charge in connection to Elaina's disappearance.

Thursday afternoon, WNWO was the first to report that Toledo Police had returned to Federal Street to execute another search warrant in connection to the girl's disappearance. Shortly after, several of the dozens gathered at the scene became engaged in an altercation as tensions flared over what Toledo Police may have found. Additional officers were dispatched to the scene to break up the fight. It is unclear who started the fight and if any family members were injured.

WNWO also learned that Toledo Police had been meeting with Steven King for several hours since his morning court appearance.

Toledo Police issued a statement that said "At 3:16 p.m., September 5th, Toledo Police Detectives executed a search warrant based on new information at 704 Federal".

At this time it is still unclear if King provided the "new information" that Toledo Police say lead to the most recent search at King's former residence.

King and Elaina's mother, Angela Steinfurth are facing charges of obstruction of justice in Elaina's disappearance.

Tune into to WNWO News at 11 for the latest on the case and more reaction from Baby Elaina's family on the new developments.

http://www.northwestohio.com/news/story.aspx?id=942991#.UikrF3_NnT8

Anonymous said...

MJ--Thanks for your response--I am willing to concede that Terri could have been the kidnapper--the science fair would be chaotic, and as you pointed out even if someone had seen her leaving w Kyron, she could just say that he was getting his backpack.
On the other hand, for her to have brought him to a crowded public place where he is well known as the setting to kidnap him from seems unlikely because she absolutely COULD HAVE ended up being seen leaving with him or even driving away w him.
If Kyron really did tell his friend that someone told him to go upstairs (or outside?) to look at a cool science project, this points to it being a perv who abducted him.
Also, I have heard little about the info Terri gave that Kyron's group had a male chaperone but then when the list was checked there was no male chaperone. If this is, in fact true, this is a red flag for it being a perv abductor.
Also, what people are saying about Terri giving up custody bc she wont answer questions, is this actually true?? Keep in mind, there is a pattern of Kayne taking custody. Didnt he take custody of Kyron and then would not let him go return to live w Desiree? I don't feel Terri's guilt or innocence canbe determined from Kayne's custody maneuvers.

MizzMarple said...

This blogger who DeDe "allegedly spoke to is PRO-Terri Horman.

NO credibility at all, in my opinion.

MizzMarple said...

So ... DeDe has been on LE's radar as the "accomplice" of the #1 suspect Terri Horman for the past 3 years -- and IF DeDe was granted immunity and passed a poly -- then WHY isn't DeDe on HLN or another big network talking about this ?

When I hear Desiree or Kaine say that DeDe was given immunity, then I will believe it !

All My Opinion

Anonymous said...

Oh also, the thing about Kayne going with her to the busstop is very odd. I don't know what to make of that. One person suggested a while back Terri had asked him to go with her to the busstop so Kayne could see "look he's not on the bus"! as part of her kidnapping plan. But where is the info about that? Was Kayne usually home at that hour? Has Kayne said that Terri asked him to go to the busstop? Certainly, this would be info Kayne could provide. My theory is that it was a perv abductor, but there are definitely some other odd details that I don't know what to make of and it seems the info isn't out there. Why was Kayne home at that hour? Why did Kayne go to the busstop?

~mj said...

Honestly, I wouldn't feel comfortable to rule anyone out, if I were the one investigating this, including Kaine. However, from what has been released to the public, Kaine didn't take Kyron from Desiree. In fact Terri and Desiree were friends, Desiree was ill and needed to get medical attention and was unable to care for a baby Kyron. Kaine took him on, Terri cared for him, they ended up together and married and had their own baby together. Terri had an older son from another relationship that was challenging to the household and was eventually sent away.

True, when Desiree was better she did reach out to have Kyron back full time and that did not come to fruition. Their custody dispute has been kept pretty quiet as to facts.

From Terri's own admission on her facebook page shortly after Kyron went missing, she was frustrated with certain behaviors. Real or imagined.

Regarding Terri and custody of her little girl: She lost custody because Kaine filed a restraining order along with divorce motion. He cited his belief that she had something to do with Kyron's disappearance and what LE told him about a murder-for-hire plot that Terri has been accused of initiating. He was granted the restraining order. When it came time for Terri to challenge it, she declined because she would be put under oath and have to answer questions on topics relating to the allegations against her and she chose the 5th. Which resulted in her not being able to see her daughter at all. Two days later, Kaine filed with the courts a contempt, he and 24 hour fitness claimed Terri attempted to take the baby from the daycare there , when there was a restraining order against her having any contact with her child.

Since then, at any opportunity for Terri to declare her innocence, she has remained silent because it would mean she would have to be under oath and answer any questions relating to the allegations. She simply will not do it, so therefore she has been denied her daughter as a result. (This is currently in the courts, her attorney filed some motion in June or there about regarding custody, they are attempting at getting Terri visitations without her having to testify)This alone, is very suspect to me personally.

Of course there are other things, the disposable phones her and her friends purchased days after Kyron went missing, the sexting she did with Kaine's friend, her not searching, DeeDee's disappearance at her job at the same time Terri was "driving the baby around." (the owner of the property that DeeDee was working testified to her "abrupt" departure) Refusing to finish her failed poly, her hiring a criminal attorney so early on, her negative comments about Kyron to people at 24 hour fitness...just to name a few...all say, she should be more intensely interviewed, yet she cannot be because she pleads the 5th. I say, get that interview to at least rule her out because she is looking pretty guilty of something. Granted, she may only be guilty of trying to hire someone to kill Kaine and that is what this whole silence is about. But I say B.S. - if that is it? This is a kid we are talking about, talk and deal with the consequences. Or perhaps she pleads the 5th because she is guilty of something more...

~mj said...

Wouldn't she simply just say so? Yet she did not. She lied and said that she never left her job....

Anonymous said...

its kaine

Anonymous said...

spelt >kaine, not kayne, jeez do these people even follow this stuff before blabbing their opinions?

Anonymous said...

Why does spelling matter so much to you? Was the question lost in the spelling?

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:54 . . . .who even uses the word SPELT?

MizzMarple said...

Anonymous said...

I read the blinkoncrime article last night and didn't believe a word of it! She's got too many well-rehearsed explanations.

A-1

September 5, 2013 at 12:12 PM
----------------------------------

Exactly ... I read it and did not believe it either.

Go back to blinkoncrime and read the blogs there : BOC is VERY PRO-Terri Horman.

Terri Horman is responsible for whatever happened to Kyron and LE knows this !

They just need to find Kyron !!!

john said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john said...

Hi Hobs,to add to your OT re Kevin Levell.

Police:"Has there ever been any sexual contact between you and the alleged victim?"

Levell:"No,not once.Not in a million years

This is a yes or no question,and deserves a yes or no answer.He does say no,however,he goes beyond the question and weakens it by saying."NO NOT ONCE. Not in a million years.Has he done it more than once"This is also prime oppotunity to issue a reliable denial..

ME said...

Can anyone possibly have a look at this?He's a uk soap star,accused of sexual abuse.>>>>Michael Le Vell shook with emotion today as he took the stand in a hushed courtroom and told jurors: “I am fighting for my life.”

The Coronation Street star admitted he was an alcoholic who carried on a string of affairs behind his cancer-stricken wife’s back.

But he denied that being a child sex offender was one of his “demons”.

He said he had been left “devastated and lost” after being accused of raping and sexually abusing a young girl.

Le Vell, who plays car mechanic Kevin Webster in the ITV soap, told police officers “my legs went to jelly” after being accused of the rapes.

He was giving evidence on the fourth day of his trial at a packed Manchester crown court today.

It is alleged that he once told his wife that he was “unforgivable” and had a “secret” – a remark that the prosecution suggests may have referred to the alleged abuse of the youngster.

Alisdair Williamson, defending, asked the star: “Can you tell the jury what that secret is?”

Le Vell, 48, said: “I had several one night stands throughout our marriage… and when you go home with that guilt and you have got to pretend you have not done anything wrong on your weekend away, it eats away at you a little bit.

“That was my little secret – my one night stands.”

He revealed that allegations of rape and sexual abuse came after his life had been rocked by a series of personal tragedies.

His mum died of a brain tumour and his dad from lung cancer.Actress Sally Dynevor, 50, who plays his screen wife Sally Webster, was then told she had breast cancer shortly after her character contracted the disease in one of the soap’s storylines.

And when his wife Janette was also diagnosed with the same illness Le Vell said he could not deal with it.

He said he threatened to quit the soap during a meeting with a senior producer because he did not want his screen character Kevin to walk out on Sally when she had cancer.

But he told the jury the real reason for threatening to leave was because his wife had accused him of having a real-life affair with actress Vicky Binns – who played his screen lover Molly Dobbs.

He flatly denies ever having an affair with Ms Binns.

Le Vell told police he had a “normal” sex life with his wife and shared no fetishes with her.

But he admitted having a number of affairs or one-night stands during his marriage.

Eleanor Laws QC, prosecuting, asked about the infidelities, adding: “Remember you are on oath.”

Le Vell told the jury he had “several” one night stands behind his wife’s back – including one which took place after he attended a showbiz darts contest in London seven years ago.

Speaking about a woman he picked up after the competition, he said: “I had a one night stand in Colchester. I have never been man enough to confess.”

Le Vell said one of the women was more a confidante and there was “more to the relationship...”

“Than just sex, yeah?” Ms Laws interrupted.

Le Vell responded: “I had known her for a long time. I was on my own, and she was single. She was a confidante.”

He said the affairs were his “little secret” which he was not able to tell his wife about, and admitted he had not been faithful while his wife had cancer.

The Corrie star spoke in a trembling voice as he was asked by his defence barrister, Alisdair Williamson, how he felt at being accused of raping a young girl.

Le Vell said: “How do I feel? I’m devastated, I’m lost. I don’t understand where it’s come from. It’s left such a big hole in life.

“I’m like a lost soul and I still want to get to the bottom of why this has happened to me and why I’m being accused of this because I know none of this happened.

“I have been walking around for the last two years just not knowing.”ThaNKS!!!!

john said...

ME said

Can anyone possibly have a look at this?

Hi,Hobs has touched on this,i also posted a short analysis..

Some analysis of your post..

Alisdair Williamson, defending, asked the star: “Can you tell the jury what that secret is?”

Le Vell, 48, said: “I had several one night stands throughout OUR marriage… and when YOU go home with that guilt and YOU have got to pretend YOU have not done anything wrong on your weekend away, it eats away at YOU a LITTLE bit.

“That was my LITTLE secret – my one night stands.”

“I had several one night stands throughout OUR marriage…

Here starts of by admitting he had one night stands by using the pronoun "I". He then goes on to use the pronoun OUR,"in OUR marriage".It is he who had the "One night stands",yet he feels the need to distance himself,and share his guilt by using the plural OUR.

"and when YOU go home with that guilt and YOU have got to pretend YOU have not done anything wrong on YOUR weekend away, it eats away at YOU a LITTLE BIT.

Here he speaks in the second person pronoun "YOU",this is distancing language.This is not appropriate, it may be a signal that he is avoiding commitment due to deception..

"It eats away at YOU a LITTLE BIT.

Again he speaks in the second person,and adds."A LITTLE BIT"

This is minimising language..

“That was MY LITTLE SECRET – MY one night stands.”

Here he takes responsibility for his "One night stands".Yet he minimisers it again by saying"LITTLE SECRET"

Le Vell told police he had a “NORMAL” sex life with his wife and shared NO FETISHES with her.

When someone uses the word "NORMAL"it tells us that things may have not been "NORMAL in the past.

"And shared "NO FETISHES".Here he as introduces the the word "FETISH" in the negative.As we know anything said in the negative is sensitive.I would also ask what is his subjective internal dictionary definition of "FETISH is..

Le Vell said one of the women was more a confidante and there was “more to the relationship...”

Than just sex, yeah?” Ms Laws interrupted.

Le Vell responded: “I had known her for a A LONG TIME. I was on my own, and she was single. She was a confidante.”

Than just sex, yeah?” Ms Laws interrupted.

He does not answer the question..

“I had known her for a A LONG TIME."

I would ask how long had he known her?

"She was a confidante.”What is his definition of confidante,and what did he confide to her.

He said the affairs were his “little secret” which he was not able to tell his wife about, and admitted he had not been faithful while his wife had cancer.

Again he says the words "LITTLE SECRET"This is very sensitive to him.Are there going to be more "Little secrets"to come out?.

"and there was “more to the relationship"

How much more was there to the RELATIONSHIP?

RELATIONSHIP:1.a connection, association, or involvement.
2.
connection between persons by blood or marriage.
3.
an emotional or other connection between people:

This sounds like he was strongly bonded to her other than her being just a "CONFIDANTE"

I believe there is a lot more to his infidelities than he is letting on.

Anonymous said...

Let us not forget that Kaine (Kayne?) Hormon is a total b'stard. He moved sexpot Terri into the home and marital bed of his wife Desiree, forcing her out of the marital bed while she was pregnant with baby Kyron all while he continued to cavort his adulterous affair with Terri under the nose of Desiree; then used the guise of Terri taking care of baby Kyron after he was born and during Desirees' helpless sickness. Imagine what Desiree had to tolerate in her own home and was too helpless to stop it.

What a nightmare for a wife to go through. Desiree had a devastating illness that was her husbands' responsibility to care for during her pregnancy and throughout her illness, yet he and Terri together continued their 'love' escapade and forced Desiree out of the home to seek medical and physical care elsewhere; knowing she was unable to care for her baby, or herself, forcing her to leave the baby behind.

THEN he divorced Desiree and took her baby while she was still helpless to do anything about it. The fact that he later married Terri and handed Desirees' baby over to her only makes him an even dirtier dog of a human being. They both were and are nothing more than filthy scum.

Kaine (Kayne?) is a low-life excuse for a human being, quite capable of doing any number of dastardly deeds to suit his own self centeredness. I wouldn't put anything past this POS calling himself a father.

john said...

Earlier in the trial, the court heard Le Vell was alleged to have raped the girl while she CLUTCHED A TEDDY BEAR during one attack.

CLUTCHED A TEDDY BEAR.

Given that some people have the likes of comfort blankets etc when they are young,and some keep these items well into adulthood because it reminds them of their childhood.The alleged victim remembers her TEDDY BEAR when the alleged abuse happened.Would this come under the umbrella of sensory recall,given that it was the TEDDY BEAR which took the place of a tactile comfort blanket?.

john said...

Again he says the words "LITTLE SECRET"This is very sensitive to him.Are there going to be more "Little secrets"to come out?.

Adding to this.The words LITTLE SECRET disturb me..When we hear about people coming forward alleging they have been abused by a paedophile,the phrase that seems to come up most is,he/she said it was our LITTLE SECRET.

ME said...

John/hobnobs and anon thanks for the analysis,i noticed me veil used the words you highlighted,in my opinion hd is Guilty as hell.thanks again!

john said...

Michael Le Vell: Child Rapes 'Didn't Happen'

Under cross-examination, Michael Le Vell denies he "pushed the limits" with a child he allegedly "groomed".

Coronation Street actor Michael Le Vell has repeatedly denied abusing and raping a child under cross-examination at Manchester Crown Court.

On the fifth day of his trial for 12 charges of child sex abuse, Eleanor Laws QC, prosecuting, put it to the 48-year-old that he "pushed the limits" with the youngster before "it became a little bit more sinister".

Ms Laws said: "Not that you were not ashamed about this but you could not stop it."

Le Vell, who has starred in the ITV1 soap for 30 years, replied: "It never happened."

Ms Laws continued: "You started to say things to her? Talk to her, say things like 'It's OK'. This was grooming.

"It became a little bit more sinister after a while."

Le Vell replied: "No."

Ms Laws said: "Rubbing up her leg?"

Le Vell replied: "Definitely not."

Ms Laws went on: "Rubbing her, 'I'm just getting rid of the evil'."

Le Vell: "No."

Ms Laws said: "And it moved on to you making her touch your penis?"

"No, not at all," replied Le Vell.

Ms Laws said: "Then it moved on to touching her intimately?"

Le Vell replied: "No."

Ms Laws said: "You started to rape her?"

Le Vell said: "No."

Ms Laws: "She just lay there, didn't she?"

Le Vell: "No, because it didn't happen."

The victim, who cannot be named for legal reasons, claims Le Vell repeatedly sexually assaulted and raped her, once while she was clutching a teddy bear.

The alleged offences relate to one complainant and are said to have taken place between September 2002 and September 2010.

Later the prosecutor said: "The problem was she was not doing anything. She was not resisting. There was nothing to stop you, except yourself."

Le Vell said: "It didn't start to stop anything."

As he continued to give his version of events, Ms Laws said: "Are you making this up as you go along?"

He said: "No, this is fact."

Le Vell, whose real name is Michael Turner, denies five counts of rape, three of indecent assault, two counts of sexual activity with a child and two of causing a child to engage in sexual activity.

Earlier he told the jury that the "little dark secrets" he had discussed with someone last year were a reference to a number of one-night stands and an affair rather than the allegations.

Closing arguments will take place in the trial on Monday.

http://news.sky.com/story/1138077/michael-le-vell-child-rapes-didnt-happen

Jen said...

Hi John...

I am creeped out by how many times leVell used the word 'little'! Seems to be something he is VERY preoccupied with...especially considering that his victim claim he told her it was their 'little secret'!

ME said...

"Little dark secrets"??? the evil nasty ****!!! I Cant stand that "Man"

ME said...

Same here jen!

john said...

I've just watched sky news,and this came from a reporter.

"There was talk about a "little secret" he had,and it was suggested by the prosecution that, that was the secret between him and the girl he is alleged to have abused over those number of years between 2002 and 2010.

Le vell said."that wasn't the case at all,he said it was the case that that secret was about extra marital affairs,about one night stands,and repeatedly denied any of the allegations against him,any of the 12 allegations against him.

The prosecution said ."You had it planned from the start and very gradually you pushed the limit"

"Not at all he said it didn't start it never happened, there was nothing to stop.

He was accused of making it up as he went along."You found it difficult to live with yourself,and once it started you couldn't stop"

Le Vell Replied "No absolutely not"he said he wasn't making it up.
He said"Never in a million years would he have done what he is accused of doing"

Anonymous said...

I will write some more later, but Anon @7:32--right.
Kayne SEEMS to be the most malignant character in this cast.
You explained it well, so I won't reiterate it.
A lot of evidence which paints Terri as the wicked witch is coming from hypocrite Kayne's mouth.

1) One example would be his claiming that Terri wanted to take the pick up truck in case she needed to bring the science project home. Yet the kids did not end up taking them home. OK--how is this her fault? He is eager to paint her as the kidnapper.

2) Murder for hire plot with the gardener. Really? I doubt this very much. If Terri was actually the kidnapper of Kyron, she pulled off a diabolically "perfect crime", yet was so incredibly sloppy in her thinking to approach a random yard worker and propose a murder for hire plot??? How do people reconcile this in their minds that in one instance Terri allegedly has the criminal mind of a complete idiot but in her next crime of kidnapping she suddenly becomes a criminal mastermind?

Third example, Terri sexting with Kaine's friend. Well, what Kayne did to Desiree (while she was pregnant) is a million time worse than this. Terri might have a problem with sex addiction or maybe she thinks that is how to get a man or whatever and at that point maybe she was scared (losing her husband and kid) and was trying to latch onto someone else. But how does Terri become the "devil" and Kayne the "angel". Seriously, what kind of husband cheats on his ill pregnant wife with the woman who is caring for her and then runs off with her child with that woman??? But yet some silly "sexting" becomes the inexcusable crime?!
If anyone seems to like to control as well as take kids from their mothers it is Kaine. Even making sure to separate Terri from her older son.
I don't trust Kayne. And if you look at the pattern of his 1) taking Kyron when his mother was sick to run off with his mistress (who happened to be the woman hired to care for her!!), separating Terri's older son from her, and then taking custody of Terri's baby--clearly he is good at control.
Period. So, unfortunately, he is not a good source of information, in my opinion.

Hobnob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hobnob said...

Ms Laws said: "Not that you were not ashamed about this but you could not stop it."
Le Vell, who has starred in the ITV1 soap for 30 years, replied: "It never happened."

Ms Laws continued: "You started to say things to her? Talk to her, say things like 'It's OK'. This was grooming.
"It became a little bit more sinister after a while."

Le Vell replied: "No."

Compound questions should be avoided since we cannot tell what questions he is replying to, it allows the subject to pick & choose what to answer.

Ms Laws said: "Rubbing up her leg?"

Le Vell replied: "Definitely not."

Definitely not doesn't mean no.
Look for where his answers change from a simple no to something longer.
He didn't make a strong denial about rubbing up her leg, we can't say it for him.

Ms Laws went on: "Rubbing her, 'I'm just getting rid of the evil'."

Le Vell: "No."

Now we have a change of language from definitely not back to no, what changed?
The lawyer introduced the phrase 'i'm just getting rid of evil'
I would have asked did you touch her leg?
Did you touch anywhere else?
How did you touch her & so on.
He may have rubbed her but not for the reason given.

Ms Laws said: "And it moved on to you making her touch your penis?"

"No, not at all," replied Le Vell.

Again we have a change of language from no to a weak denial.
Each additional qualifier weakens a sentence, a qualifier is a word that when removed doesn't affect the meaning of the sentence.
No would have been strong, Stronger would have been i did not make her touch my penis, or better yet, she did not touch my penis.
I would ask did she touch your penis?
How did it come about that she touched your penis?
He may not have made her touch his penis he could have asked her (make would imply force perhaps such as holding her hand and having her touch his penis)

Ms Laws said: "Then it moved on to touching her intimately?"

Le Vell replied: "No.

Now we have another change in language back to no.
Intimately could mean something different in his personal dictionary such as an act between consenting adults.
A better question would have been did you touch her vagina?

Ms Laws said: "You started to rape her?"

Le Vell said: "No."

Note he uses no rather than versions of his earlier denials
Rape is the wrong word to use in this line of questioning.
It is a legal term and he may have not seen it as rape if she didn't resist.
I would ask his definition of rape for a start so we know his personal dictionary.
Paedophiles may not see what they do as molestation rather they use terms such as tickling or cuddling.
I would ask if he had sexual contact with the girl, did his fingers, mouth, penis come into contact with her vagina (3 separate questions - not a compound question)
The trick is to pin him down to specifics after learning his personal dictionary, using only words he introduces.
The lawyer also uses the word Started implying it was unsuccessful.
Better would have been "and then you raped her" or better still " you had sexual intercourse with her. The definition of sexual intercourse is clear and to the point.

Hobnob said...

Ms Laws: "She just lay there, didn't she?"

Le Vell: "No, because it didn't happen."

What is the IT that didn't happen? He does not make a strong first person singular event specific denial i did not have intercourse with that child (i wouldn't accept rape as a denial as in his mind it may not have been rape if she didn't resisit, he may think it was consensual and thus not rape)
Here would be the perfect point to make a strong first person denial, he doesn't & we can't say it for him

Later the prosecutor said: "The problem was she was not doing anything. She was not resisting. There was nothing to stop you, except yourself."

Le Vell said: "It didn't start to stop anything."

Here he uses IT rather than the expected I.
It didn't start not I didn't start.
Lying is stressful and the subject will try and avoid the stress cause by lying by dropping pronouns, using distancing language, ommission, or, in extreme circumstances, creating a whole new reality.

Hobnob said...

off topic

An Idaho woman who killed her baby, then burned it over the course of two days to destroy the evidence, could face up to 30 years in prison.

Veronica Herrera, 29, pleaded guilty in April to involuntary manslaughter and five other felony charges in the death of her 2-year-old daughter, Nakita.

Judge Thomas J. Ryan imposed a 15-year fixed sentence on Thursday, with another indeterminate sentence of 15 years, KTVB reported.

Herrera told investigators her daughter fell off her toilet training seat, hit her head on a heater and later died from her injuries. In an effort to cover up the death, prosecutors said Herrera burned the child's body in a barrel, dousing it with lighter fluid over the course of two days. The mother even enlisted her other children to help, making them throw trash in the barrel, according to a police report.

Judge Ryan referred to the crime as unusual and brutal.

"We don't know if anything more sinister or evil was going on because Herrera destroyed the evidence," Ryan said.

Dr. Paul McPherson testified that before Nakita's death, there was evidence that the child suffered bruising in many places on her body, a severe burn, and malnutrition while in her mother's care.

Court documents show Herrera, who was a former meth addict, told detectives she didn't tell anyone Nakita had died because she "didn't want to lose her children."

Herrera will be unable to have access to her five other children without approval from state counselors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/veronica-herrera-killed-daughter-children-burned-body_n_3880616.html

john said...

Great analysis Hobs.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 1:50, THANK YOU! Kayne Hormon is lower than dog dirt and the ground it lies on. I don't see how it is that some here keep forgetting this!!!!

Anonymous said...

Another sorry-ass judge on the bench. Veronica Herrera deserves life in prison WOP and no visitation EVER from her remaining children.

Picked a name said...

Wow, Terri's army is out in force! You can distract and blame others as much as you want, but that doesn't answer the basic questions of why Terri didn't fight for custody of her daughter, why she never searched for her missing stepson, why she has not passed a polygraph test - and much more. So maybe Kayne/Kaine is a b*stard, I don't know. But that's not the question here - the question is whether Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance, and she herself has given us a sea of red flags.

Lucy said...

OT: The remains of Levon Wameling, the Utica baby whose father did not see a need to report him missing for a month, may have been found. His father Jevon was arrested yesterday on unrelated burglary charges.

http://centralny.ynn.com/content/news/695071/during-search-for-missing-child--remains-found-in-mohawk-river/

Shelley said...

The thing that bothers me the most about Terri is the flat out refusal to talk.

I have a step son, if he was missing, I would not for a second think about pleading the 5th.

I would be out there with my husband searching and I would share anything at all i thought coudl help find him.

Innocent people do not typically withhold information.

Yes, it is possible it was someoen else.

But if she had no involvement at all, why is she refusing to speak?

And Dede spent 5 hours with a grand jury. 5 hours is alot of time if you know NOTHING about a case.

Thats my 2 sense.

If innocent, she would talk. She would help.

If innocent, Dede would not need immunity from anything.

Anonymous said...


We are not members of Terris' Army, nor are we defending her. We don't know what she might have done, or DeDe either for that matter.

We are simply refreshing your memory on what a lowdown, low-life b'stard Kayne is inasmuch as some of you seem to have forgotten. This rotten SOB is himself capable of being involved in Kyrons' disappearance. Let us not forget that distinct possibility.

we bring freshness we are anti chimp said...

I hate bannanas.

Anonymous said...

Fuck off.

Anonymous said...

baby Elaina remains found in box in garage rafters.... as i recall, the cadaver dogs hit hard near the garage shortly after she was missing. how many times did they search the property? smh LE fail.

Anon "I" said...

"If I thought for a second that she was capable of [foul play], I would not have been there. She would not have been my friend in the first place."


I agree with those above that noticed the embedded "I would not have been there."

Where was that exactly?

"I ... have been there" could be an embedded admission that she was there for "something." Maybe not the killing, maybe some kind of cover-up or confession.

It is interesting to me that they just came out saying something was found during a recent search that may lead to more information. Does anyone know exactly *when* Dee Dee started singing like a canary as opposed to the new information?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/02/search-for-kyron-horman-missing-since-2010-yields-new-info-mother-says/

Kaine was no angel, but neither was Terry. The the murder for hire request, sexting, the posts she made about resenting Kyron are all curious red flags. The report of a journalist calling and Terri assuming it was her lawyer and mentioned moving the body is another red flag. A big, huge, blazing red flag. I can't wait to hear what they found and I pray that it leads to Kyron so he can be put to rest. To me, the thought of him still being alive is almost too horrible to fathom!! He did not disappear to be placed in a loving home and properly cared for under wonderful conditions. Sob, sob....

All, IMHO.

Anonymous said...

To the poster who is arguing for Terri's innocence, please go back and do the research. Don't come on here after 'looking it up last night' etc and argue that point when you clearly haven't looked beyond the basics. Go, inform yourself, and then come back with some sort of logical, fact-based, intelligent insight.
Go.
Now.
We'll wait.

Anonymous said...

While Kayne is a low life SOB, he has a verified iron-clad alibi, so it is foolish to call his involvement a 'distinct possibility.'
For God's sake people, go back and read the case files on the internet!

Anon "I" said...

Blink's take is very pro-Dee Dee. She really seems to believe her. Can we analyze Dee Dee's statements to Blink?

Anonymous said...

I have researched the case quite a bit.
You people who say Terri lost her baby to Kayne bc she wont answer questions. Do you not see how Kayne has put her into a lose lose situaton? She has already been questioned by police, she has been painted as the wicked witch number 1 suspect, so she got a lawyer and he's telling her to shut up bc anything she says can and will be used against her by Kayne. Kayne slaps down the restraining order, she tried to go see her kid, Kayne got her on contempt. He's playing to win. So, yet still you guys say YOU, if you were Terri, would be holding his hand searching. Well, thst's kind of hard to do when he's got a restraining order on her for what "sexting " his friend"? Or because of an unproven allegation that she asked the gardener if he wanted yo do a murder for hire plot? UNPROVEN!!!!
You all can think Terri is guilty as sin but how very shortsighted you are not to see Kayne's potential for deviousness and manipulation.
Oh, and since I maybe have not researched the case as well as some, what exactly was Kayne doing when Terri tried to go see her kid at the gym daycare? Was he out tirelessly searching or was he working on his biceps?
I would suggest merely looking at the deviousness of Kayne's character to at least try to understand he is by no means trustworthy.

Anonymous said...

Also, has anyone else wondered, is there any other case ever where the kidnapper has brought a baby along when doing their kidnapping? Wondering about Terri allegedly being able to pull off this crime with her baby in tow?

Jo said...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/06/20363985-arizona-mom-convicted-of-killing-4-year-old-son-goes-free-after-24-years-pending-retrial#comments

Arizona mom convicted of killing 4-year-old son goes free after 24 years, pending retrial.

Milke adamantly denied that she confessed. The 9th Circuit court noted that Saldate didn't record the confession or take any notes during the interrogation, during which there were no other witnesses.

She is only denying that she confessed. Misconduct may allow another killer to walk free.

Anonymous said...

What kind of woman hooks up with a married man, especially one whose wife is pregnant? What kind of woman abets her boyfriend gaining custody of a toddler because his mother had to receive life saving treatment? What kind of woman cons her second husband into adopting first husband's child and then forces him to continue to pay child support for the kid after she has removed the child from his life? Who gripes about using said child support to contribute to the household supporting said child?

Kaine may be a jerk but he was really scraping the bottom of the barrel when he left his wife and will regret it until the day he dies.

Anonymous said...

I hope the b'stard does regret it for the rest of his sorry life but I seriously doubt he has spent one minute regretting how he treated Desiree, for the simple fact that he doesn't have it in him to regret anything he does.

He treated Desiree lower than a dog some dirtbag would kick as he walked by. People with a conscience don't do things like Kayne has done in the first place. Now you say he will regret it? Get real. The man is a crafty fool and an idiot without conscience. I pity the poor little girl he is attempting to raise.

Terri is just as low-down as Kayne is. This piece of scum shacked up with sickly and pregnant Desirees' disgusting husband right in her own home, pretending to be Desirees' friend. Poor girl, I can't imagine how she coped with such treachery 24/7 and was able to survive it and give birth to a healthy baby.

Terri and Kayne both deserve their sorry lot in life and their troubles that have only just begun. Payback is a bummer and their day is coming. Little Kyron didn't deserve the evil they brought upon him, but they certainly deserve the evil yet to come that they brought upon themselves.

Jen said...

So what Kaine is a jerk, no argument here...the difference is he cooperated with LE's investigation and in the search for his son, while Terri (the last known person to be in control of Kyron) did not, even to the point of losing custody of her own baby. Kaine didn't make the accusations about the murder for hire plot...LE brought that info to him. And the guy Terri allegedly tried to hire wasn't just 'the random gardener', Terri was having an affair with him. It's not far fetched that she would approach her lover with such a request, love triangle murders happen all the time...who else would she ask to kill her husband!

Also to Anon asking why Terri's sexting was such a big deal...the issue is that she was doing this 'sexting' in the days immediately following the 'disappearance' of her stepson! The fact that sexting was Terri's focus during the time when her every thought should have been for Kyron's safety and well being, shows her true feeling toward Kyron. It also suggests that she knew exactly what happened to him..he was a history as far as Terri was concerned. Everything that Terri and her buddy Dee Dee have done screams self-centered, callous and most of all GUILTY!

Oh, and NEITHER of her crimes were anything close to 'perfect crimes', (kaines murder for hire or Kyron's 'kidnapping'). If they were we wouldn't be discussing this right now, lol. She basically got caught (or ratted out by people she involved) both times!

Jen said...

The baby is part of Terri's alibi. I predict we will find out the 'Kitty' issue is precisely where Dee Dee's involment began.

Anonymous said...

No, Kaine is worse--it was his wife, his unborn baby--not Terri's. She is no prize, but she is not the one who should have been emotionally invested in them. It should have been Kaine.
So, Terri was sexting. What was Kayne doing? Releasing his weird memo and going to the gym?
It wasnt LE that took custody from Terri--it was Kayne.
Also, not saying you're nit correct about Terri, but Kayne cooperated w LE does not make him innocent. Sometimes the "bad guys" are the person you least expect. These types are pathological liars who will cooperate with LE bc they can easily fool people.
I'd say if anything, Kayne's behavior looks suspicious that day
1). Home early from work.
2). Waiting at the busstop with Terri. ( What was his excuse for that? He just wanted to congratulate Kyron for science project the second he got off the bus?). Oh isnt that heartwarming? And suddenly, this man who has no conscience suddenly has a heart of gold! Basically, if you believe that, I got a Brooklyn Bridge to sell ya!
3). Weird memo. For all us statement analyzers, did that memo seem like a parent out of their mind with worry? No, it didnt.
Terri's behavior that day: What was suspicious? Except what people want to project onto it. She posted a picture of Kyron and his science project... BC she is guilty! She called school to ask when science projects should be brought home...bc she us guilty! She drove her baby around for his ear infection...bc she's guilty!

Anonymous said...

For all us...? You and who?

I appreciated Terri's memo. She let me know "There were no men on the chaperone list"

Anonymous said...

Weird memo. For all us statement analyzers, did that memo seem like a parent out of their mind with worry? No, it didnt.
Terri's behavior that day: What was suspicious? Except...YOU! You're analyzing behavior and calling it SA.

Jen said...

You are really going a long way to try to dismiss Terri's bizarre behavior.

Kaine didnt 'take' custody from Terri, he was GRANTED custody by the judge who reviewed all of the info available, and not only granted him sole custody, but also issued a restraining order for Kaine and the child, and then sealed the documents! Terri continues not to have custody TO THIS DAY, due to her continued refusal to cooperate with the investigation (and whatever info the Judge found so persuasive in those documents). The restraining order the judge issued was promptly violated by Terri (because she thinks she is above the law, kinda like how she tried to get people to kill her hubby and then 'disappeared' her stepson). She knew she was legally barred from contact with her daughter, and she tried to take her from the gym day care...that is KIDNAPPING, the exact thing she is accused of!

I never bring this up because when it was reported I could hardly believe it...but as someone else mentioned, Terri was even said to have blurted out info to a reporter on the phone believing them to be her attorney! She is guilty as sin! Every day she has spent out of jail has been borrowed time and she knows it. Kaine may be the scum of the earth, but nothing explains Terri's multitude of guilty and questionable actions...nothing that is, but her obvious guilt.

Time to get back to the basics...if it looks like a duck...etc.

Anonymous said...

Really the more they speak the more we can learn so Dede speaking is a good thing. Statement analyses can only add to the volume of evidence in this case.

Previous analyses of the statements by the principals in this case have been very interesting. A compilation of all known statements by the redhead duo followed by analyses of Peter and co. would be interesting!

michelle obama STINKS said...

Chimps are evil.

we bring freshness we are anti chimp said...

Baboons are all SOB,S

john said...

OT..

Parsons attorney says he may have to remove himself from case..

ROWAN COUNTY, N.C. — Rowan County detectives are still looking for any clues about Erica Parsons' final days at the family's home before she disappeared.

Channel 9 asked investigators if there was any video evidence captured by surveillance cameras across from the Parsons' home that could help the case.

Even though the family's attorney, Carlyle Sherrill, said his clients have moved to Fayetteville, Channel 9 has seen them return to the home.

Neighbors told Channel 9 Casey and Sandy will often wait until the media leave at night and then return home to apparently sleep at the house.

Channel 9 saw the Parsons' oldest daughter, Brook, and her husband coming and going from the home.

Channel 9 talked Thursday with Sherrill, who said if homicide charges are filed, he won't be able to represent them anymore.

He said he spoke to Sandy Parsons on Wednesday night about "a gamut of possible charges" in the case.

TIMELINE: Erica Parsons case

“We’ll have to see what charges are brought. I think it depends how serious the charges are and their ability to pay,” Sherrill said.

Sherrill also told Channel 9 Casey Parsons is now embarrassed over claims that she believed Irene “Nan” Goodman was Erica’s biological grandmother.

“I think she is embarrassed that she let her daughter go off with this person that she didn’t really know,” Sherrill said.

Sherrill said to find Goodman and Erica, investigators should be shining their light on Erica’s biological mother, Carolyn Parsons.

“I think that the birth mother is key to it all because she is the only one who put Casey in touch with this Nan to begin with,” Sherrill said.

Casey and Sandy Parsons told Dr. Phil McGraw that Erica is with Nan, but investigators said Nan does not exist.

Casey Parsons told McGraw that she met Nan first on Facebook in July 2011. By the end of September, she agreed to let Erica spend the weekend with Nan.

By the time the teen went for a third visit, they said she didn't want to come back, and no one has heard from her since.

The Parsons said they do not have an address or working telephone number for Nan.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/parsons-attorney-says-key-whole-case-ericas-biolog/nZnZH/

Sella35 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john said...

OT..

Aaron Hernandez: Ex-NFL Star Denies Murder.

Former NFL star Aaron Hernandez pleads not guilty to the murder of a friend who was shot five times in an industrial park.

http://news.sky.com/story/1138243/aaron-hernandez-ex-nfl-star-denies-murder

Yukari said...

mara - thanks for your response.
I got the impression Dede may be deeper involved than just not revealing what she knows from the questions that she refused to answer by pleading the 5th. I linked them in my post. The fact that she refused to answer these questions because the answer could incriminate her, speaks volumes to me.

In addition to that, Dede´s cousin, Tom Jones, has recently posted on Facebook. (It has be confirmed by a friend of Dede´s that he really is who he is, not just some wacko claiming to be a relation.) He told a lot about Dede and her family background, the kind of person she is, and why she might have been capable of helping Terri kill and hide Kyron. His theory of what happened may not be right in every detail - as everyone else´s - but it made a lot of sense. Tom did this to make Dede talk, and he stated that she had, and had received immunity, shortly before it was confirmed by media. Tom has closed his FB page now but if you check out The Anti Terri Horman Page and The Anti Dede Spicher Page on there, you may still find some of the information he gave on there.

Yukari said...

Various anons -
Kaine, Desiree, Terri and Dede are all adults. What happened between them, how much of a jerk who was toward whom, is nobody´s business but their own, except where it is immediately connected to Kyron´s disappearance. For all I know, Kaine may be the biggest a-hole walking this planet, or he may not, I don´t care. But Kaine is, to this day, trying to keep Kyron in the eye of the public. He wants this boy found, and wants to get cleared up what happened to him. As is Desiree. If you followed this case, you will know that they don´t always see eye to eye - sometimes they work together, sometimes each of them is addressing the public on their own. So if Terri wanted to contribute to getting Kyron found, it would not matter what her relationship to Desiree or Kaine is. She could go public on her own.
This is not about either of them, it´s about Kyron. Instead, Terri is the only one of the four (step-)parents involved who did not pass a polygraph, refused to cooperate with LE and lawyered up. Speaks for itself. By the way: Who else lawyered up, refused to cooperate with the investigation, refused to answer questions, fail or refuse to take polygraphs? The Ramseys, the McCanns, ...

john said...

OT..

Nonverbal Communication Analysis No. 2512:

Matthew Cordle's YouTube Confession
and the Death of Vincent Canzani
"I Killed a Man" - What His Body Language Tells Us ...
It's NOT what you think!
(VIDEO, PHOTOS)

http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/09/nonverbal-communication-analysis-no_2727.html

Anonymous said...

For those confused on the topic about Kaine's being at Kyron's bus stop - When this case broke Kaine placed himself at the Bus stop-As the case became more clear and lines were drawn in te sand-(Kaine's divorce proceedings) it was then that Kaine could not confirm he WAS at Kyron's bus stop. I know exactly where I was when Kyron went missing. Yet it seems now that Kaine?
Doesn't.

Just my opinion~
Jenniesdae

Anonymous said...

As far as the article and new information provided to us by Blinkoncrime-I am deeply disappointed at the way this piece was put together. Broken quotes and reconstructed statements-I do not feel any different about Deedee than I did day one-I think she has valuable information. I am very sorry that the state gave her immunity.

Just my opinion~
Jenniesdae

Anonymous said...

Jeanniesdae, you are correct in your post @ 10:43. There are other discrepancies in Kayne's subsequent statements as well.

As it concerns DeDe (and Terri), (and Kaynes') Kaine(sp?) low-life and dirty shenanigans; it is dangerous to have knowledge of a crime, particularly a murder, when you are the person holding the information, even if you might be as innocent as a newborn lamb.

I just want to add that the science fair and its' chaotic environment that morning would have been the perfect set up for Kyron to be kidnapped or walked right out of that school by Terri or anyone else without one person paying the slightest bit of attention. I can't think of a better set up than this one!

Confused said...

Someone has a very strong dislike towards Kaine, I don't think anybody will claim to be his number 1 fan but are these posts from someone who knows him? They seem very personal and I would say showing quite a lot of anger and hate. Anybody else think this too? 'We' instead of 'I' - how can one poster know another poster thinks exactly the same as them?

Anonymous said...

You people are not good at forming gut instincts about people. I've seen it done over and over on here--whoever "looks" like the "bad guy" is the bad guy. Sometimes this is true, but usually not.
A lot od times it is the one who "looks" the most angelic who is guilty. Terri and DeeDee look like wicked witches and even more malevolent with their for bodybuilding. Kayne, however, despite his history of immoral, deceptive behavior, looks like an "angel". His actions that day including waiting at the busstop like father of the year all support this angelic facade. Even taking Kyron from his sick mother does not even put a dent in his angelic facade. One thing to keep in mind when identifying sociopaths: they are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Shoppergalone said...

Anonymous,

I see your point as making Kaine out to be the guilty one. But can you give me a motive? What motive would Kaine have to murder his own son? Why would he do this?

I see why Terri would, her older son was made to leave the home. A son for a son.

But what motive would Kaine have?

~mj said...

Well said.

~mj said...

Your reasoning is flawed. Kaine got the restraining order because a judge thought there was enough evidence to support it. It doesn't matter if you or I think there was enough evidence or not, the judge thought there was. Terri could have fought it, but she sat silent. HER choice. So yes, she lost her baby b/c of her own choice.

Secondly, whether she liked it or not the restraining order was in effect, therefore it was unlawful for her to "visit" her baby at the gym. (Mind you, her contempt was because there was enough evidence to support the idea she tried to TAKE her baby from the gym- BIG difference between taking and visiting - but visiting does sound a lot nicer) She WAS in contempt, right, wrong or indifferent....you cant minimize her behavior or call foul on the consequences of said behavior when all she has to do is testify and it all goes away. (She broke the law by going to the gym. Period.)

Unless of course she is guilty...

Hobnob said...



TOLEDO, Ohio – Human remains found in the rafters of a garage are likely that of a toddler last seen about three months ago inside a house on the same property, police said Friday.

Investigators said they found the remains Thursday inside a box that was behind other containers and piles of trash in the detached garage.

An autopsy conducted Friday was inconclusive, and DNA tests will be needed to determine if the remains are of 19-month-old Elaina Steinfurth, a county coroner said. Investigators, though, were confident that what they feared was true.

"We found what we believe may be baby Elaina," said Toledo Police Chief Derrick Diggs.

The home and the garage where the box was located belong to the family of a man who had been dating the girl’s mother.

Both the mother, Angela Steinfurth, and her now-estranged boyfriend, Steven King II, are in jail and accused of obstructing justice. No charges have been filed since the remains were discovered.

Steinfurth and her two daughters stayed with King at his family’s home on June 1, investigators said. The girl’s father went to the residence to pick up his two daughters the next day, but only Elaina’s 4-year-old sister could be found.

Investigators have said Steinfurth knew Elaina had been seriously injured and didn’t seek medical help. They would not say what type of injuries the toddler had or who caused them.

Steinfurth has been in jail since mid-June. Her attorney, Jane Roman, declined to comment on Friday.

King was charged in July with lying to investigators about the child’s disappearance. He told reporters after his arrest that he is innocent. A message was left with his lawyer.

Authorities, including the FBI, have searched homes, vacant buildings and the Maumee River near downtown Toledo for any sign of Elaina over the past three months. Volunteers also have looked through neighborhoods and parks.

Officers searched both the home and the garage in the days after Elaina disappeared.

They went to back to the home Thursday and removed the box with the remains, just hours after King appeared in court at a hearing where his trial date was scheduled.

Angela Steinfurth’s stepfather, Richard Schiewe, said the box was not in the garage the day after the little girl was reported missing. He said he went into the garage with police when they searched the building.

"That body was not in the rafters,’’ he said Friday. ‘‘Somebody went and got that body and put it in there."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/07/remains-found-in-box-likely-missing-ohio-toddler-police-say/

Anonymous said...

Anon @12:06 am

HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN TERRI TRIED TO HIRE SOMEONE TO KILL KAINE????

WTF!!!! he has an alibi. GET OFF OF HERE.

Anonymous said...

Anon
@ 2:25, you are right on. However, you have not made a dent in the clouded minds of some of these posters and you never will. They do not see grey, only black and white, nor can they see a wolf in sheeps' clothing. I don't think they even comprehend the concept of Kaynes' hidden agenda, or that its' ever occurred to them to look deeper.

They forget the deliberate possibilities of the sociopathic pathological liar and schemer like Areil Castro who ALSO put on a good show of playing up to the DeJesus' girls' mother, even attending her vigils and calling to sympathize with her loss, offering his help. There have been many of note who have done these very things. This behavior is typical of a guilty party.

They can't mentally relate to the scope of the scheming and deviousness of Kayne Hormon; cannot even place themselves in the same position of: "What if MY husband did to me the evil things Kayne did to Desiree"? This poor woman must have cried herself to sleep on a cot in the corner many nights, yet they skim right over it with seemingly little empathy.

That right there should tell any clear thinking individual that this man is capable of far worse than just an ongoing adulterous affair right in his own wifes' bed as she lay pregnant, sick, broke and helpless to do anything to stop them. But even this they can't relate too. Might as well throw in the towel and call it a day, hon.

Anonymous said...

Um, Terri did not lose custody because 'she wasn't cooperating with authorities.'
Terri lost custody because she attempted to hire someone to kill Kaine.

I wonder if the person arguing for Terri's innocence on here IS Terri?
Notice when it was denied, she said, "We are not saying that Terri is innocent" etc. We. Sharing the blame, but how could she possibly know what motivated the 'others'' (if there are others! It could be just the one woman trolling.) arguments? I think that is interesting.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 609

It is KAINE. Not Kayne. It is impossible to take you seriously when you can't even get the small details right.

Anonymous said...

You're aware that Kanye West had nothing to do with this case, right?

Anonymous said...

There is more than ONE way to spell KAINE, you simple twit.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 6:09 --Thank you. You summed things up better than I could! You are absolutely right on about most on here skimming over Kayne's actions towards Desiree with little to no empathy. You are absolutely right about Ariel Castro as (one of many) examples of the perp being so "cooperative" with searches, etc. But most of all, yes, many are not capable of comprehending the depth of the deviousness and scheming of a sociopath or, I will add, the subtle traits that often point to one.
Good post!

Anonymous said...

Terry does sound pretty evil and I think her plan was to do away with both Kyron and Kanye.

Shoppergalone said...

Anon's,

You seem to be avoiding my question. What was Kaine's motive to murder Kyron?

I would really like to hear your answer on this.


Anonymous said...

Terri may have murdered Kyron whilst texting Kyron's mom ...and Kaine has wondered aloud if Kitty witnessed Kyron's murder.

Nic said...

@ September 5, 2013 at 4:57 PM

My apologies if this had been addressed by someone else. I haven't read further than your comment, yet.

The teacher didn't "assume" anything. The teacher reported that Terri had told her that Kyron had a dr's appointment. So she wasn't expecting him to be in class when she took attendance. However, after Kyron went missing Terri said that the teacher must have been "confused" (due to the chaos of the science fair). That she had told the teacher that his appointment was (the next day?)

It always sounded like a set up to me.

Anonymous said...

Shoppergalone--First off, I want to make it clear, I am not convinced Kaine is the killer. Rather, that Kaine is the darkest character in the cast--the most malignant. You are asking about his motive: Sometimes wondering about a motive with sociopaths can be distracting. Sometimes there is not a clear motive for specific evil deeds committed by the sociopath, however specific evil deeds can be part of a larger motive which is domination and control. This is general info about sociopaths.
But, you are asking about Kaine specifically, and what I can point out is a pattern in Kaine's behavior, a very clear pattern. 1st with Desiree, Kaine took advantage of her weakened state to have an affair w the person who was caring for her, leaving her to be with her carer, and taking Kyron from her. Efforts to have Kyron come live eith Desiree were resisted by Kaine. Next Kaine separates Terri's older son from her banishing him from the house. So, a pattern has been formed at this point, but there's more. Kaine takes custody on the infant son of his and Terri's legally arranging that she never see him again. What catches my attention about Kaine is this pattern. Three instances of him separating children from their mother. I am looking at this mathematically as a pattern. 3 times. Perhaps, if Kaine is the perp, it could have had something to do with Desiree wanting Kyron. to come live with her. These are just my thoughts. I read people saying Terri's motive was "a son for a son". There could be truth to this theory. But I feel it is foolish not to notice Kaine's maneuvers with cistody, etc.

Anonymous said...

So what you're saying is that if Kyron wanted to live with his mother, Kaine would rather kill him than see this happen?

Shoppergalone said...

Sorry that last comment was by me -

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 10:21 - Kaine knew that Terri was not well mentally. Too bad he didn't send Kyron back to his mother.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 2:25 just admitted he/she is forming their opinion on "gut instincts". And the other "Anonymous" is agreeing with him/her (if it's not actually the same person??).

Also, this is VERY off-topic but I need help in analyzing something real quick. If your husband is quoted as saying to someone "I love my wife and I wanna spend my life with her" as opposed to saying "I love my wife and I wanna spend the rest of my life with her" .. what would you take from that, if anything at all? It just for some odd reason stuck out to me because I normally hear the latter when one professes that they want to grow old with someone. The first one is what was actually said and not the latter. Thanks.

Jen said...

The child shared by Kaine and Terri is a girl...not a son, her name is Khiara(sp) and her nickname is 'kitty'.

It is a bit silly for you to lecture others, as if you have some deeper understanding than the rest of us about what kind of sociopath Kaine is, considering you don't even know the basic details of the case.

Bottom line is you seem to be overlooking the fact that LE investigated Kyron's disappearance and THEY say Terri is withholding information. I'm not saying LE is never wrong, (we see guilty people living free everyday) but Terri's actions and most importantly her words speak volumes. Have you even bothered to read any of the previous analysis of Terri/this case?

I haven't read anyone arguing that Kaine is an 'angel'..people are simply stating that there's FAR more evidence implicating Terri, much of which is her own actions (or lack of actions).

Anonymous said...

@ 1:36 . . . hubby has the frame of mind that keeps one young :)

Jen said...

Also, I don't believe TerrI's motive was 'son for a son', although the estrangement may have factored into her overall depression/instability. I believe Terri simply 'hated' Kyron (for lack of a better word, and blamed all of her problems/struggles in her life on him), creating a justification in her mind to get rid of him.

Since Kyron was not her bio-child and was actually the child of Desiree, Kaine's ex-wife and her love rival..all of Terri's hatred and jealousy toward Desiree was projected on Kyron. Because of the underlying feelings Terri has toward Desiree, she projects these onto Kyron and see's him as the issue central to every problem in her life and marriage, (and we could get into very deep psychology here, about the dynamic of Terri and Kaine's relationship being born of betrayal, etc). Terri eventually decides that everything is her world be perfect if not for Kyron, and sets a plan in motion to eliminate him.

john said...

@ 1:36

Did Her husband no the person whom he said:

"I love my wife and I wanna spend my life with her"?.

If so, the social introduction is a good one."My Wife"it uses the title Wife)and the possessive pronoun (My).

If it was a stranger,i would expect her name to be inserted after he said "My wife".
"My wife" without the name,is still strong,but not as strong.

As Anon 2:08 said,it sounds like he is young at heart.Something we say when we have our first crush on someone..Ooh i want to be with them fore ever..

Anonymous said...

1:36 - we should all stay young at heart, it keeps us alive and healthy longer.

Anonymous said...

Yes he knows the person very well. Thanks guys. I think you helped confirm what I already suspected.

john said...

OT..

Erica Parsons update:

Lies exposed, but still NO arrests..

Missing teen Erica Parsons still hasn't been located, but there are new developments in her case that just make it more infuriating that her adoptive parents haven't been arrested. It's also frustrating to note that neither Casey or her husband have been deemed official suspects in the teens disappearance or possible murder -- even though they have shown repeatedly to be dishonest and evasive.
The latest developments involve chat transcripts between Casey Parsons and her biological mother Carolyn Parsons. And they point out bold inconsistencies in the stories told by the woman -- not that any of this is surprising at all. Casey reportedly led Carolyn on, giving her updates about the missing teen the entire time acting as though she was with another daughter in Asheville. She told her she was preparing for driver's ed -- an obvious embellishment on her already existent lies.
Curiously, Carolyn exchanged messages with who she was led to believe was Erica -- but it's almost certain that it was Casey or Sandy Parsons on the other end of the conversation. Erica reportedly told Carolyn to leave her alone. This seems to be Casey's attempt at stopping the questions and plees to meet the girl who was already missing.
Why haven't Sandy and Casey Parsons been arrested and charged with a crime over this whole ordeal? Are officials waiting until they find a body before something is done? It's already been established that the duo are lying -- and Erica's own brother has accused them of killing her. What happened to this little girl?

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/15464259-erica-parsons-update-lies-exposed-but-still-no-arrests

JustMe said...

You know what I don't get about the Erica Parsons case? It's that when they were on the Dr. Phil show, he barely mentioned that their son accused them of murdering her, and yet they didn't go into any further detail at all about it on the show. I mean, you'd think Dr. Phil would have, considering that's a pretty huge accusation to make, especially coming from someone who lived in the house with them.

john said...

Hi JustMe,

I would love to see the transcripts from the txt messages between them..

Yukari said...

Anon @ September 7, 2013 at 8:09 PM:
Maybe, but Kaine Horman only uses ONE way of spelling his name.

So far, there is no Kayne, Caine, Kanye, Cane, Kane, or Khaaaaaan involved in Kyron´s disappearance.

Jenniesdae @ September 7, 2013 at 11:00 AM:
Well, it´s Blink on Crime - nothing else to be expected. Google the name and check out the Wikipedia Sandbox link that comes up. The site is not to be taken seriously as a source of information.

I used to read there when I first found out about Kyron´s disappearance, and soon gave up. Blink always promises big reveals but she never follows up, she claims to have insider information (that of course she can´t fully reveal or give a source for) but her "knowing hints" never turn out to be about anything that can be confirmed/matched to other sources or official information, not even in retrospect. She´s simply bluffing.

john said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

@ John

I would also like to add that the husband is not particularly young (34 to be exact) and he has been with his wife for 14 years.

john said...

Im a big fan of Body Language,and along with S/A its a formidable combination when seeking out deception.This post is all about anger,the onset,and the outcome.This analylist is one of my personal favourites,and the example below is excellent..

Nonverbal Communication Analysis No. 2514:

Anthony Weiner's Confrontation -
Contrasting and Controlling Anger
Body Language in a Brooklyn Bakery
(VIDEO, PHOTOS)

http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/09/nonverbal-communication-analysis-no_8.html

Anonymous said...

WTF are you talking about?...Maybe, but Kaine Horman only uses ONE way of spelling his name.

So far, there is no Kayne, Caine, Kanye, Cane, Kane, or Khaaaaaan involved in Kyron´s disappearance.

Anonymous said...

How can you be so certain about that, Anon @ 5:09? Kaine Hormon is an underhanded, disgusting, lying, sadistic SOB. Can't you even imagine how he treated Desiree in their (HER) home and her pregnant and sick, with her becoming helpless and with nowhere to go and no one to help her; with KAINE and Terri blatantly carrying on an adulterous affair in front of her the whole time, until they finally forced her out having to leave her baby behind?

You just don't get it, do you? This man is capable of doing ANYTHING to suit his selfish sadistic desires. You have no idea how he treated baby Kyron in that home either, and allowed Terri to treat the little boy, or how they both treated him during those years before he was finally disposed of.

I'd guarantee you that Terris' older son knows plenty about Kaines' sadistic treatment of little Kyron AND himself during the time he lived there and during the years AFTER they ran Desiree off, before Kaine ran him off too. I'd guarantee you it was no loving home environment from either Terri or Kaine for poor little Kyron, with a sadistic father/step-father like Kaine Hormon running the home.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 5:09 (and others) just doesn't get it that little Kyron would cry hysterically and beg his mother over and over to take him to live with her. There had to be good reasons for Kyrons' hysteria at having to go back home to his dad and Terri. Why Desiree wasn't legally fighting Kaine tooth and nail to take her son out of that environment is a mystery when now she is no longer sick.

You just don't leave your child in an environment like this without putting up a fight. Why didn't she? Have we ever heard a clear and convincing explanation from Desiree as to why she wasn't fighting to take her son? Has she ever divulged the things Kyron told her about how he was being treated and was subjected too?

Nic said...

@ September 6, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Re murder for hire plot...

LE made this discovery during their investigation immediately following Kyron's abduction and then KR moved quickly for the restraining order, etc. against TH.

Nic said...

@ September 6, 2013 at 1:50 PM

I agree that KH isn't an "angel" as you'd put it. But not for the (mostly inaccurate) reasons you site.

No behavior re his fedelity excuses/justifies TH's behavior (sexting, etc.) after Kyron's disappearance. That behavior points to, IMO, her being a sociopath, thus capable of whatever befell Kyron.

These are the facts as reported by Desiree/LE:

Desiree said she wanted Kyron and LE reported TH didn't want Kyron. Kyron and TH didn't get along and he wanted to live with his mom full time. KH, the one and only person who could have enabled this arrangement, refused to entertain the notion that Kyron live with his mom. What wasn't revealed by Kaine Horman until LE was investigating Kyron's disappearance, was that TH was abusing alcohol (and emotionally abusing Kyron). The marriage was disintegrating and things were very bad between them, yet KH refused to let Kyron go and actually left him and the baby with TH and her alcohol and emotional abuse while he would travel for business.

Desiree didn't know anything about the alcoholism, fighting, etc., until these details came to light by LE. That was when Desiree and KH stopped being seen as "united" and KH ceased TV interviews/updates with reporters.

I don't believe KH had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance in that he was "in on it". But I hold KH in contempt for not looking at the big picture and what was ultimately in the best interest for Kyron. He should have let him go to a safe and loving environment he wasn't able to provide him. ... away from the emotional toxicity of what, IMO, KH was forcing him to live because of his own "ego"/selfishness.

On the other hand, TH should have left her son and divorced KH. But evidently she was too greedy to just walk away and seek half of the marital assets or what would be left after paying her attorney fees. Instead sought out someone who could give her everything (plus insurance $) via a murder for hire plot.

All in all this is very nasty and sad snapshot of their life and the emotional hardship Kyron was forced to endure.


JMO

Nic said...

Lastly to add my supposition/opinion based on what I've learned and read about his case:

If TH would have succeeded in her murder for hire plot, I believe she would have shipped Kyron home to his mother and she would have brough her own son back home to live with her. Then TH and the baby and her son would have lived "happily" ever after (as would have Kyron and Desiree by default). But, IMO, because the initial plan didn't work, and I believe KH took from her what happiness she did have left (by sending her son away), her anger fueled her motivation to connive and plot to inflict the same hardship on KH.

That things were never great between Desiree and TH but they kept it civil for "Kyron's sake" only underscores, IMO, TH's sociopathic bend to kill and secret Kyron without conscience or care as to how it would affect Desiree or *anyone*.

jmo

Anonymous said...

@Nic - good comments, but I don't believe that Terri would have shipped Kyron home to his mother because then she would have to share the proceeds with him. I think that she wanted both of them out of the picture.

Anonymous said...

Jen--I do know the basic facts of the case. Except I did not realize the infant child was a girl--I am not sure how relevant this detail is.
I did look at some videos available of Kaine being interviewed. You all should look at them. I absolutely donot sense a deeply grieving father. But, sticking to the principals of tatement analysis, I found his excessive use of "you know" interesting. But, more importantly, what do you guys make of it, when a reporter asked him about when the 3 kidnapping victims of Ariel Castro were found alive after all those years, does it give him hope for Kyron etc? And after plenty of stuttering and that pressured speech he uses, Kaine says "It gives YOU another story to tell." Would anyone like to analyze this statement "It gives you ANOTHER story to tell?" Because this expression within our English language is commonly used as a euphemism for LYING.

Anonymous said...

One other thing I noticed, in every video, Kaine ALWAYS has his hands in his pants pockets and he NEVER takes them out to make a gesture, etc. In body language, this is an indicator of lying.

Anonymous said...

Kaine Horman appears to be a narcissist of the first order. No need to go into how everything must revolve around this type of person to his satisfaction, comfort, and ego. When I see him I just want to bat him over the head. Show some emotion you geek!

It is easy to see why he would not let Kyron live with Desiree'. His ego would have been able to deal with anyone thinking he was not in control of a situation. He cannot lose face in any situation. He's a narcisstic control freak with a shaky ego...the worst kind of individual that someone like Desiree' could marry. Sometimes the worst people can charm and fool others who are not of the same bent.

But does Kaine not have an alibi for the time when Kyron's kidnapping occurred? Unless you mean to suggest that Kaine hired someone to take Kyron.

He's an almost unbearable cold fish of a man, but I can't see his involvement.

Anonymous said...

AND, just what about child support? Kaine Hormon is MORE than just a cold fish of a man, and I CAN see his involvement in Kyrons' disappearance. He is a true manipulator, a schemer and a pathological liar.

This man would have NEVER agreed to pay child support to Desiree or any other woman, including Terri. He MUST be the winner in his devious schemes. And is. He even has some of you fooled.

Nic said...

@2:54

I believe KH had plenty of "stories" to tell. As in what goes on behind closed doors (alcoholism, etc.)


Lots of pretending but I don't believe he was 'in on it". He's just "cma"ing.

Personally, learning what Desiree learned, I would not have found it possible to restrain myself from physical aggression against him. My hubby would have had to bail me out of jail.

Anonymous said...

I believe there is a chance he was involved.
Anon @ 7:25--right, this person Kaine Horman is a control freak of the first order. What I have noticed about his pattern is that he seems to be extremely possessive of his children. He views them as possession that he does wish to share. The older son of Terri's was not his bio child, so this possessiveness does not apply to Kaine's treatment of this child. However, why did he kick this child out of the home. Probably because he did not want this kid seeing something is my guess.
One thing I noticed in the Kaine videos was some comments he made about "Kitty" (the daughter of him and Terri). When asked how Kitty is doing, he says "She's growing. She's developing. It's amazing."
Really?!?! Justin DiPietro got slammed to hell and back for his lack of descriptiveness of his daughter Ayla. He had said something along the lines of "she's my world" but got absolutely slammed for not mentioning anything personalized like what Ayla likes, what kind of kid she is, etc. Yet Kaine's comments about his daughter are even more empty than Justin DiPietro's. I mean could have said anything like "she likes Elmo". But no, his comments reveal the mindset of someone completely detached from her. "She's growing. She's developing."
But came after this was even more shocking to me: Kaine begins talking about how sometimes he takes "Kitty" to the awareness events for Kyron, but sometimes he doesn't, and at those times "Kitty" (who is 3 years old am I correct?) becomes upset that he is going to spend time with Kyron and not with her. Really?! I remember having a 3 year old and they do not have jealousy such as this. Paticularly since Kitty would have no memory of Kyron because she was too young when he "disappeared". I played this video to my boyfriend and he watched it with a blank face until Kaine made the comment about Kitty being upset that he is going to spend time with Kyron and not her, and his eyebrows shot up in the air. He thought it was a really bizarre thing and said wow it seems like this guy likes to get attention for his missing kid or something?! THINK ABOUT HOW STRANGE IT IS FOR HIM TO BE SAYING THAT THE TODDLER DAUGHTER WHO HE HAS CUSTODY OF AND WHO IS NOT ALLOWED TO SEE HER MOTHER EVER IS UPSET HE IS GOING TO AN AWARENESS EVEN FOR KYRON. It is so strange for a parent to say that about their 3 year old who does not have any memory of this lost brother.

Anonymous said...

Cont. But what it reveals in my opinion, is a stunted narcissistic personality who believes that his own daughter is possessive of him. Talk about projection! It reveals a severely personality disordered individual who does a lot of projection. It makes you wonder how much insight Kaine actually had into Terri's mind and her "postpartum depression". How much of that was projection? Kaine projecting onto her his own volatile mindset. Just something to think about.

Anonymous said...

THINK ABOUT HOW STRANGE IT IS FOR HIM TO BE SAYING THAT...Put a link to the quotes! DUH!

Anonymous said...

In one of the videos, reporter asks him and Desiree what they miss most about Kyron. Desiree says "random hugs etc" and begins crying, clearly in agony. It is Kayne's turn to answer and he says "...walks to the bus" and on the word "bus" does the fakest sob I have ever heard in my life. Why does he have to fake sad? Why?
I would not trust him as far as I could throw him and would be skeptical of any words thst come out of his mouth.

Anonymous said...

The people bashing the missing kid's dad sound really nuts. Get a grip and stop projecting your own insanity. Not everyone has a hysterical personality like you.

john said...

Could someone put up a link to these videos..Thanks

Anonymous said...

Oh fuck off,observer

Anonymous said...

John, if you want to watch it, the video where Kaine talks about what he misses most about Kyron is "morning walks to the bus" is what I am wondering about. I would like someone to look at this, and tell me that his sobbing when he says "morning walks to the bus" sounds fake or genuine.
The video is "Nightline from ABC News: Parents: Bring Kyron Home. The link is www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbYY2S4jb7A.
I also wonder if Kaine actually walked Kyron to the bus in the morning, and, if so, how frequently.
It is interesting that he mentions this--walking him to the bus in the morning, I would not picture him to be the type of Dad to do that since it sounds like he had an early morning work schedule and did not attend Kyron's science fair in the early morning.

Anonymous said...

Child support. Child support. CHILD SUPPORT.

Remember those words as a motive for evil conniving, without conscience, Kaine Hormon; THEN you might start to see his involvement in an entirely different light.

Think people. THINK. Never, never, never, EVER would a control freak like him wind up paying out child support.

Standing on it's own; there's just ONE motive right there!

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 9:22--Exactly. I could never picture him putting pen to paper and writing out a check for child support, he would explode in anger just thinking about doing so!

S + K Mum said...

Anon @ 9.29,

Do you know Kaine? Please do not take that as a cheeky remark, I am interested as it sounds like you know him personally.
I would be interested to know more of his temper and why paying child support would be such a big issue for him. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Also, if anyone wants to look at the link to the short "Nightline" clip I posted: Another thing I noticed that I found to be very concerning is that when Desiree and Kaine are asked what they remember about Kyron, Desiree goes first and says (paraphrased) "Kyron had short hair, but I would run my fingers through it" (and begins crying).

So, let me break that down
1) Kyron's hair was short
2) but she would run her fingers through it.

Next, it is Kaine's turn but he is ready with his response spilling right out of his mouth. He says (paraphrased) ""Kyron would help me shave my head and would rub my head for the 3 or 4 days it was short."

So, let me break that down:
1) Kyron would help shave Kaine's head
2) Kyron would rub Kaine's shaved head for 3 or 4 days while Kaine's hair was short.

OK. The problem here is that Kaine is not sharing a heartfelt memory or even a nonheartfelt memory that he at least recalled spontaneously out of his mind. What Kaine did, and there is no arguing against this fact, is: Kaine merely created a mirror image of Desiree's genuine memory of Kyron WITH THE ADDED TWIST of Kaine putting himself as the focus of the memory.

It's called narcissism, and it's a serious personality disorder.

Anonymous said...

I don't know him, but maybe the other anonymous does--I don't know.

S + K Mum said...

Ah okay Anon 11.07, it came across as though you knew him, being able to picture him exploding in anger sounded like something you had witnessed and could see in your mind.
It's difficult to know which anonymous is posting what. Thanks for replying.

S + K Mum said...

Today is Kyron's birthday. I will light a candle this evening for this little boy who is still missing and missed so much by those who love him.
I can only light a candle but somebody out there can do something huge and let this boy be found. What a burden to carry :(

Anonymous said...

STOP PRETENDING U KNOW HIM!!!! U EVIL INSANE FUCKFACED WHORE,observer

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 12:12--Why don't you get lost? I've been reading your crappy comments for months. You have nothing intelligent to say so you show off all the bad words you know. Very intimidating! I'm shaking in my boots!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Kaine is not sharing a heartfelt memory or even a nonheartfelt memory that he at least recalled spontaneously OUT OF HIS MIND...this interview may have been after a fisherman snagged on something that appeared to be human hair near Sauvie Island.

Nic said...

There was also the theory floating around that is was TH who had made arrangements for her son to be safely out of the way so he wouldn't be implicated in what she was planning.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 3:37--I did not know that about the fisherman snagging something that may have been human hair off Sauvie Island.
I felt Kaine's memory he shared was odd, mainly because it is a mirror reflection of Desiree's memory (with Kaine putting HIMSELF at the center of the memory).
It is like parent A saying their memory is " I remember pushing him on a swing." And parent B saying "I remember him pushing me on a swing."
But I also thought it was odd that Kyron would help him shave his head or rub his head for 3 or 4 days. Meaning, I doubt the truthfulness of Kaine's memory.

Anonymous said...

It makes me question his emotional connection to Kyron. Desiree shares a heartfelt memory, but Kaine is just "stealing" her memory and also turning the conversation back to himself.

Anonymous said...

I just watched the original press conference with all 4 parents.
One thing jumped out at me:
Kaine begins his statement by thanking those who are being interviewed to find out information which might help locate Kyron.
He thanks
1) community
2) parents
3) children
4) bus drivers
5) all of those being interviewed.

As you read these 5 groups of people he thanks, what stands out to you? Well, to me, the only word that caught my attention was "bus drivers". I assume the teachers were interviewed, all employees at the school. Yet he does not thank them. He thanks the "bus drivers". This is the only "specialized" meaning non-vague group that he thanks.

There are 2 reasons it caught my attention.

1) It is the only group he picks out to thank that is not just completely a general group. I would think thanking the teachers and school employees would be more central to his thinking.
2) It brought to mind what Kaine said he misses most about Kyron: He said 2 things
1) going outside to feed the cat
2) (and this is where he gets choked up) MORNING WALKS TO THE BUS

I am wondering could this be some kind of leakage? Something to do with busses, bus drivers, walks to the bus????????

Anonymous said...


I felt Kaine's memory he shared was....heart breaking; their obvious grief over the loss of Kyron's presence in their lives

Anonymous said...

Something to do with busses, bus drivers, walks to the bus???????
Obviously taking the bus to school was the safer option for Kyron.

Anonymous said...

I literally have nothing more to say about this case unless someone wants to actually watch the short link that I posted and give their opinion on whether they feel Kaine in sincere when he gets choked up while saying the phrase "our morning walks to the bus" (as one of the things he remembers most about Kyron). In my opinion, it looks totally fake but I would certainly be curious if others felt differently.

Anonymous said...

I am wondering could this be some kind of leakage? Something to do with busses, bus drivers, walks to the bus????????

Look at how Kaine answers questions.

Kaine: ...and then there are the facts. And the facts...

Reporter: (interrupts) How do you feel about it?

Kaine: How do I feel about it? I feel it's definitely significant. I don't know how credible the sources are. I'm hoping that they are because it helps us bring more of those pieces that we talked about before, the puzzle, in to paint the bigger picture, but until they're confirmed, I'm not going to maintain a sense of false hope that they're valid, until they're actually valid, until I see them and get from law enforcement that yep, this is verified, this is air tight, this is another piece that we found, and then I will believe it.

Desiree: Yeah.

Video: http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kaine-Horman--Desiree-Young-827-pt-2-kyron-horman-missing-portland-101688128.html

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 4:11 am--

Thank you for posting this.

Very good example of how Kaine answers questions which is in a very guilty fashion. He talks in circles and takes a long time to say very little. It is like he is squirming in his seat, having trouble answering the questions sincerely, and talking in circles so as not to have to commit to any "statement" that might "give something away" about what he himself knows.
This is something this statement analysis group should be jumping all over since the shortest way of saying something is considered the most "honest" and all extra words need to be deemed very important.
I noticed something in an interview I watched yesterday that reminds me of the snippet you posted.
This is coming from memory so is paraphrased.
When a reporter asks him about the investigation, Kaine says (paraphrased) "right now it is a process of elimination until we get that person who has the information to lead us down the one path to where he's at." He repeated this phrase again in the same interview "lead us down the ONE PATH to where he's at".
I CAN'T BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE NOT JUMPING ALL OVER THAT ONE!
I remember when Justin DiPietro used the phrase "floating around out there" and bam! People were all over it! He is a truck driver, his wheels should be on the road, this is a clue as to where Ayla is that he has used this expression "floating around out there".
The phrase "one path to where he's at" does not conjur up hopeful images. This phrase conjurs up a picture of a wooded area with a path going through it. Call me crazy (and I'm sure people will!) but I think it is odd that a parent of a missing child, who should have the natural denial that something terrible has happened to their child, (especially with the extremely optimistic viewpoint Kayne takes--he seems almost overly optimistic, and don't get me wrong, I understand the need to be optimistic but Kayne seems far more optimistic than most parents of missing children) is using this image of "one path to where he's at" as it certainly does not offer a hopeful image!

Anonymous said...

Oh Anon @ 4:11--I missed something obvious in Kayne's answer to the reporter that you posted. He repeats the reporter's question back to him before answering. Something which has been pointed out numerous times on here as a sign of lying as the person is stalling for more time to think up their answer.

Anonymous said...

I REALLY think people should take a closer look at Kaine's language. I notice some very odd things jumping out at me in his word choices.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 4:11--I'll be doing an analysis of the snippet you posted from Kaine when I have a little time later on today.

Frannie said...

There is a great interview with DeeDee on the Blink on Crime website. There was a lot of information I had never heard before about what DeeDee has been through during the investigation. Very interesting! I encourage you to read it too.

Anonymous said...

Frannie--thank you! I will definitely read that--I am interested to hear what she has to say!

Anonymous said...

Here is my analysis of Kayne's answer.

Kaine: ...and then there are the facts. And the facts...

Reporter: (interrupts) How do you feel about it?

Kaine: How do I feel about it? I feel it's definitely significant. I don't know how credible the sources are. I'm hoping that they are because it helps us bring more of those pieces that we talked about before, the puzzle, in to paint the bigger picture, but until they're confirmed, I'm not going to maintain a sense of false hope that they're valid, until they're actually valid, until I see them and get from law enforcement that yep, this is verified, this is air tight, this is another piece that we found, and then I will believe it.

Desiree: Yeah.

Video: http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kaine-Horman--Desiree-Young-827-pt-2-kyron-horman-missing-portland-101688128.html


HERE IS MY ANALYSIS:


Reporter: How do you feel about it?

Kaine: How do I feel about it?

Kaine repeats the reporter's question back to him. This is a strong indication that he is about to lie in his response and is stalling for more time to think of what to say.

K: I feel it's DEFINITELY significant.

The word "definitely" weakens Kaine's assertion that it is significant.

K: I don't know how credible the sources are.

This sentence contradicts and negates the sentence which came before it. Kaine feels it is definitely significant, but right away states he does not have confidence in the sources of the information.

K: I'm hoping that they are

Kaine has told us a lot so far about the information he is being asked about. He has told us that it is:

1) definitely significant
2) not credible
3) hoping for credibility

K: because it helps us bring more of those pieces that we talked about before

The word "Those" is distancing. Here Kaine is introducing the imagery of a puzzle.
He is introducing the idea of "pieces", but not just any "pieces", they are pieces that "we" talked about before

K: because it helps us bring more of those pieces that we talked about before, the puzzle, in to paint the bigger picture

Kaine is mixing metaphors here in a very awkward way of speaking. But let's listen to what he is telling us:

He is hoping that the sources are credible so that it can bring

1) the pieces that we talked about
before
2) the puzzle
3) in

K: When the pieces that we talked about before, the puzzle are brought in they will paint the bigger picture.

It is interesting because Kaine speaks in imagery of pieces being brought together, brought inward, as with a person sitting at a table pulling pieces to themselves to put together a puzzle. But, Kaine states that when these pieces are brought IN, it will "paint a bigger picture" which is a very different image than the puzzle. Paint the bigger picture is something expansive, outward, away from the person.

K: BUT until they're confirmed, I'm not going to maintain a sense of false hope that they're valid, until they're actually valid, until I see them and get from law enforcement that yep, this is verified, this is airtight, this is another piece that we found, and then I will believe it.

Kaine tells us that the information he is being asked about:

1)they are not confirmed
2) they are not going to give him a sense of false hope
3) they are not valid

But he also tells us what it will take for him to believe in the information (pay special attention to the pronouns)

1) IT needs to become valid
2) he needs to see THEM
3) he needs to get from law enforcement that this is verified
4) he needs to get from law enforcement that this is AIRTIGHT
5) he needs to get from law enforcement that this is another piece that WE found

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I could not fit my full analysis in one posting.

To summarize, Kayne's response is an attempt to disorient the listener, kind of like he is spinning them around in a chair with his dizzying circular answer. He says NOTHING.
He does not answer the question. In fact, by the end of his response it is not even clear whether he is talking about the "information" he is being asked about or the "sources" who may not be credible. In fact, he is talking about them both interchangeably in an effort to disorient the listener. Pay special attention to the pronouns IT and THEM in the very last part of my analysis (which Kayne uses interchangeably in the last part of his answer). So, is he talking "it" or "them"?
We don't know. By then end of his answer, we do not even know what he is talking about. And that is just the way he wants it.

Anonymous said...

I also want to highlight the 3 images Kaine mentions in the final part of his answer

K: until I see them and get from law enforcement that yep, this is verified, this is airtight, this is another piece that we found

Kaine needs confirmation that this is

1) verified
2) airtight
3) another piece that we found

"Verified" conjurs up the image of military personnel or someone or something or importance being "verified", like a badge, an important certificate, something that allows someone admittance to an important place.

"Airtight" conjurs up the image of a container or something sealed.

"another piece that we found" returns to the puzzle imagery

So, it is interesting because he is bringing up 3 very contrasting images. "Verified" brings to mind a badge or a piece of paper. "Airtight" brings to mind a container of some kind. "Another piece that we found" brings to mind a puzzle.

I just found these word choices to be interesting as they do not stick with one particular image.

Anonymous said...

DEFINITELY significant.

The word "definitely" weakens Kaine's assertion that it is significant....and he's parroting Kyron's moms answer...snippet of interview was posted.

Anonymous said...

What about the vast improvement in Kyron's science fair project over last year; he apparently had help.

Anonymous said...

The quetsions DeDe says were asked of her by the grand jury were questionable.

Anonymous said...

I searched and cannot find the original text or video of the interview. I tried the link--didn't work.
One thing I just realized why Kaine's use of the word "airtight" stood out to me-the word "airtight" is never used to describe "evidence", "information" or "sources". It is rather used to describe an "alibi" as in the expression "airtight alibi". Also, the word "verified" usually has positive connotations and will often have the connotation this person or thing is "OK". For example, they "verified" his passport, they "verified" his identification and allowed him in. Also, "verified" is never used to describe "evidence" or "information", but rather is commonly used to describe the word alibi as in, for example "they need to verify his alibi".

Anonymous said...

Actually I guess you could say "verify the information", but the word "airtight" and "verify" are much more commonly used to describe the word "alibi" and both words tend to have "positive" connotations.

Sarah said...

I remember her slimy smile leaving the courthouse long ago. No normal, innocent woman would relish the disappearance and death of a little child. She was having fun and that's all I need to know! We will see what she "does."

Rose City, Oregon said...

Desiree Young was never friends with Terri. That is a story Terri perpetuated. Desiree was eight months pregnant with Kyron when she discovered that her husband, Kaine was having an affair with Terri.

Anonymous said...

When one carefully reads and comprehends all of the statement analysis performed above; IMO, the summation of the matter is that Kaine Hormon knows exactly what happened to Kyron that day and where he was disposed of.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 7:42--I am the anon who did the statement analysis of Kaine's response to the reporter and I agree with what you wrote.
I believe Kaine does have guilty knowledge and I believe that there are some extremely concerning word choices used by Kaine that make me wonder if he has knowledge of where Kyron is.
I also believe he reveals in his speech a preoccupation with his own alibi.
There is much he reveals in his speech.