Saturday, November 2, 2013

Finding Murdered Children

Step 1  Listen to the guilty
Step 2  Go where they tell you to go


"Ugly fields"  Billie Jean Dunn

"floating"    Justin DiPietro

"woods"  Cindy Anthony

to be continued...

71 comments:

Anonymous said...

OT Peter I don't get this girl at all??? If anything happened to m baby (who's 20) I would be destroyed not thinking bout selling m story two months after the fact
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2483978/Hannah-Anderson-offered-100k-help-documentary-abduction.html

Blitz said...

I wasn't aware Ayla was found. How depressing. When did that happen?

Anonymous said...

Oh boy. You hit it dead on right this time Peter.

Blitz, Ayla hasn't been found. Peter used 'floating' as to the hint (water) Justin gave when he used the word "floating"; just as Billie Dunn referred to ugly fields and Cindy Anthony referred to woods in the searches for Hailey and Caylee. Coincidentally, (or was it?), this is where they were both found.

Very telling.

Red Ryder said...

It is not coincidence, they leaked the information they were trying so hard to hide. It's like Karin's analogy of marbles escaping when you open a (?) cupboard door, some of the marbles in a cupboard will escape just like some words will leak out into our speech. I hope I explained that right. I remember when Billie said the ugly fields thing I thought of Caylee in the woods and it made me sick to think she was most likely laying out in an ugly field like B said. It is amazing listening to the marbles that people drop! Ii read the news a whole different way. My kids are surprised at how much I know about what is going on when they have been trying to be secretive about something.
Sad for Ayla. I wonder if she will ever be found?

elf said...

But Justin also said 'no harm ever came to my daughter down in my house'. Floating + down makes me think of a well.

john said...

Sometimes i need to step back, and this is it..I love learning SA..However, personally i don't think the words an language warrant the article...For me, i think it is unecessary.

Blitz said...

@Anonymous: Thanks for letting me know. I am aware of the quotes listed as well as the individual contexts of the statements and of the importance they have in statement analysis. I'm relieved that Ayla has yet to be found - it means hope still exists (for me, anyway) I keep hope in the lost of all ages and genders until they are found. Sometimes it’s even a happy day when they are found alive– those are the cases where I know that hope is important to keep close and living without hope, ugh, it’s pretty miserable if I remember correctly.

The blog headline of 'Finding Murdered Children' is what threw me off since it strongly implies that Ayla has been found - floating in water and thus has proven SA and Mr. Hyatt correct. It’s rather misleading though I will leave it at that. Again, Anonymous, my thanks for the polite and informative reply

Quote of the Day
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

Anonymous said...

"I didn't just drop him off, I spent time with him, took pictures and he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall.

“Kids saw him after I left. Teacher put him as absent at 10am. Someplace between 9-10 is when we think it happened. "I didn't just drop him off, I spent time with him, took pictures and he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall.

“Kids saw him after I left. Teacher put him as absent at 10am. Someplace between 9-10 is when we think it happened.

Terri Horman on Kyron- worth analyses

Hobnob said...

Off topic

Husband found guilty for murder of his wife in 1999 after mourners heard him whisper 'sorry' over her casket

Jody Byrd, 46, has been found guilty of killing his wife Desta Dodson-Byrd in 1999

He was heard by witnesses to apologize while standing over his wife's casket at her funeral

Friends and family fought to activate the cold case a decade after Dodson-Byrd's death

Prosecutors argued that Byrd was the only person who could have killed his wife

Byrd claimed to have found his wife's body on the driveway when he arrived home from work

Investigators found Byrd's work shirt, paycheck and other items in the house, proving he was already home when his wife died

Prosecutors will seek a 99-year sentence for Byrd

An Alabama man has been found guilty of murdering his wife 14 years ago after the woman's family and friends fought relentlessly to bring the cold case to justice.

Desta Dodson-Byrd was 29 when she died of a single gunshot wound to the head on the driveway of the Bibb County home she shared with her husband Jody Byrd, 46, in 1999.

During Byrd's trial, the jury saw a videotaped interrogation from the day of his arrest during which he refused to say whether he had apologized while standing over his wife's casket at her funeral.

Al.com reports that Glenn Foster, an interrogation specialist asked Jody Byrd, 'Did you say "I'm sorry" over the casket? Yes or no?' during the video recording jurors saw today. 'Several people overheard you.'
The jury deliberated for three hours Friday before finding Byrd guilty of killing his wife. A sentencing hearing has yet to be scheduled but prosecutors say they will seek a 99-year sentence.

On February 25, 1999, Jody Byrd told investigators that he arrived home from work to find Desta Dodson-Byrd lying next to the driveway of their rural property.

Byrd said he moved his wife's body into the flood lights of the garage so he could see what was wrong with her before attempting CPR, calling his wife's parents and then finally calling 911.

She had been shot in the head with a shotgun Byrd kept under the bed.

A decade after Desta Dodson-Byrd's death, her friends and family formed a group called Justice for Desta, seeking to keep the case open and lobbying police to review the case.

The group kept the case alive, posting fliers and even erecting billboards urging justice for Desta Dodson-Byrd.

More than 12 years passed before Byrd, 46, was arrested for the murder in 2011.
Prosecutors in the trial contended that Byrd killed his wife outside their rural Bibb County Home to collect her life insurance.

Byrd's defense lawyers argued that Desta Dodson-Byrd killed herself because she was a depressive with an eating disorder.

According to Al.com, prosecutors Blount County District Attorney Pamela Casey and Assistant District Attorney Scott Gilliland identified many inconsistencies in Byrd's statements to investigators.

Hobnob said...

In 2011, he said he got home around '2:20-ish,' and then in 1999 told police he arrived home at 7:35pm.

He told investigators that when he moved Desta Dodson-Byrd, her eyes were rolling but a medical examiner told the court that her eyes could only have moved in the one to two minutes following the fatal shot.

The same applies for the gasps he told investigators he heard his wife making when he found her.

Desta Dodson-Byrd was not known to have ever fired a gun, and prosecutors said the position Byrd told investigators he'd found her in was not in keeping with someone who had died of a self-inflicted shot.

Casey told WBRC that the determining factor in the case was that Jody Byrd's work shirt and the couple's mail from that day were inside the house - but Jody Byrd said he stumbled upon his wife's body when he arrived home from work and before he entered the hou

'That tells the jury, that told me, he lied. He was in the house before it all happened,' Casey said.

The jury deliberated for just three hours before finding Byrd guilty of the crime.

Desta Dodson-Byrd's father Ronnie Dodson told WBRC his family is pleased with the result.

'Well it don't bring her back at all. But he's in jail, where he belongs, for what he did,' said Dodson, through tears of relief and grief.

'Nothing but hallelujah, finally. Finally, after 14 years.'

The family of Desta Dodson-Byrd left the Bibb County courthouse following Byrd's guilty verdict and went to her grave-site to leave 14 roses for their beloved girl - one for every year it took for them to get justice for her.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2483909/Justice-Desta-husband-Jody-Byrd-guilty-1999-murder.html

Rose said...

I wonder if Madeleine Mccann is in a tunnel of some sort.

Anonymous said...

"She loves go out and play with her brothers, play hard in the dirt"

Shelley said...

Did her parents reference a tunnel? If so can you put the full statement here?

Shelley said...

She has not acted sad since day one.

Also said all the texts to Jim the day of was to tell him where her school was to pick her up yet it's been said Jim always picked her up and went to practices at that school.

And she said she was told by Jim if she tried to get help he would kill her then said later Jim was starting a fire to signal for help.

The cops need to look at her. Something is very wrong here.

Rose said...

"When I was praying I started thinking of all the things that were happening. There were lots and lots of ideas in my head and how we could make things better and I was really feeling very down and not sure which way to proceed. I had this mental image of being in a tunnel and instead of the light at the end of the tunnel being extremely narrow and a distant spot, the light opened up and the tunnel got wider and wider and went in many different directions. I talked to you (Kate) about it and said, 'I am not prepared to pursue one path. We are going to do everything in our power to influence things.' - Gerry Mccann

Shelley said...

I remember this comment. But not who said it... Who was this again?

Rose said...

Gerry Mccann said it. Are there underground sewer and drainage tunnels at the resort town? I know the seaside town where my parents live in Sicily has lots of those, and they all drain to the ocean (not the sewers of course, but the storm drains).

The time of 7:30 is sensitive to Mccanns, which is why I think this is the time Maddie died. Her body was placed behind the couch (not in her bed), and was covered with a pink blanket. The Mccanns used the dinner as their alibi, and on one of the "checks," Gerry carried her body to a storm drain near the ocean, which is why he has vision of "tunnels" that go "many different directions." The Mccanns have counted on the fact that there friends were all drunk and not keeping very good track of time to mess with the timeline. I believe the Smith family saw Gerry carrying Maddie around 9:50 to dispose of her body. He then returned to the table, which was Kate's cue to go to check on the children and "raise the alarm." The 7:30 death time gives at least 2 hours for the body to be stashed behind the sofa, leaving the cadaverine scent.

Mad at McCanns said...

Rose- Fantastic SA detective work! Your theory makes sense. My only hesitation: why the DNA in the rental car?

I believe the McCanns are guilty of overdosing her, unintentionally causing her death. They drugged their kids, left them alone in their room, while they partied with friends, and then allow police and others to waste time, money, and resources on a wild goose chase for years.

It appears, neither of them have a conscience- even a tiny bit of one.

Anonymous said...

Becky Celis

Hobnob said...

Several times the mccanns have kerplunked marbles.

Gerry said in a tv statement " nothing was as bad as the night we found her"
Not the night we found her missing?
This tells me they found Maddie dead and also explains all their talk of grief and grieving.
You grieve for the dead not the living.

Tormented Kate McCann told last night how she is visited in the night by the spirit of her missing daughter Madeleine.

The anguished GP says she is regularly woken up by visions of the four-year-old in her bedroom. Kate, 39, revealed the visions to her mum, Susan Healy, who was worried about her daughter’s lack of sleep

Susan had assumed Kate and husband Gerry were being kept awake by her two-year old twins, Sean and Amelie. She was stunned when Kate revealed it was missing Madeleine who was haunting her.

Susan, said: "She told me she has difficulty sleeping and wakes during the night. I asked: 'Do the twins come and wake you up?'

Kate said: "No, it's Madeleine. She comes in.

This also tells me kate knows Maddie is dead.
Dead people haunt the living as ghosts, live people don't becaome ghosts and haunt the living.

Kate mccanns talked about pressing a button and they would all be togeather, they would all be gone.

Kate said: "It really isn't easy," coping. "Some days are better than others. ... There's days when you think, 'I can't do this anymore,' and you just want to press a button, and we're all gone, and it's all finished, and we're all together and gone. Wherever. But you can't, you know. Just occasionally you'll have a -- if you're having a really bad day, which we do. And you can't help but think that."

This told me kate knew Maddie was dead due to the word all. If Maddie was still alive as claimed, then kate murdered the twins and ferry (justifiable in his case) killed herself and made Maddie an orphan. If Maddie were dead then only then could they ALL be togeather.

"Kate said of the Portuguese police: "They want me to lie - I'm being framed.

"Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us."'


Why use the word murder when they have claimed she was still alive and was abducted?
Notice she says They want ME to lie, I'M being framed and then changes pronoun to They're blaming US

She says: "As I put her to bed, she smiled at me and said, 'Mummy I've had the best day ever. I'm having lots and lots of fun'."

Hobnob said...

The perfect emotion in the perfect spot.
3 yr olds don't have a concept of time like an adult, they certainly wouldn't say i've had the best day ever. It is interesting that over the years her memories of the last day have changed considerabkly rather then etched permanently in their mind.
Even now decades after my toddlerbaby brother was run over i can still remember who was where, the lorry driver sitting on our stairs crying his eyes out and me telling him it was ok. I remember people coming in and out, i remeber holding the little necklace he had made for me out of beads the night before. They can't even remember their version of events days after she vanished.

"Every day, it's very hard without Madeleine, and we all miss her so much. It certainly feels like there's a big void in our life without her."
Not that there is a big void in their lives, only that it certainly feels like.
Qualifiers weaken the statement and here we have not one but two.
Certainly and feels like.
This tells me they don't miss maddie in the least bit. This statement exlains why kate blossomed in the days after Maddie vanished, it was a weight off her shoulders, something seen in the church pics taken on what would have been Maddie's 4th birthday. Rather than fade away, not caring about appearances, eating or sleeping, thinking about nothing but finding Maddie, like any innocent parent with a missing child who look like crap within hours and days of their child going missing. Kate instead glowed and bloomed, the longer she was missing the better kate looked, even to telling us she was sleeping well within days!!. This is all highly unexpected and a huge red flag. Kate and gerry know what happened, they know Maddie is long dead, they have told us.

Anonymous said...

kate blossomed in the days after.... was she given meds to cope?
did she get such a look on her face in seconds when maddie became missing or was there something that over time took the life out of her?
if they gave her meds after the fact, could explain why she doesn't remember, but then how would she know to feel a void?
i dont know i never took any meds for something like that, so that is why i am asking these questions.

Anonymous said...

Kate said "They want me to lie - I'm being framed..... so they're blaming us."

cops probably did ask her to admit her husband did it. and when she wouldn't, they probably did say they would pin it on her.
---------
She says: "As I put her to bed, she smiled at me and said, 'Mummy I've had the best day ever. I'm having lots and lots of fun'."

odd..."having" ???? not had? im thinking she didn't put her to bed without a fight.

Hobnob said...

If kate was given meds they would have flattened her emotions, they would have been sedatives.
She would be depressed for a start a functioning zombie so to speak.

Meds wouldn't cause her to be laughing and grinning and behaving in the way we saw and heard.

Kate blossomed the longer they remained free.
If you look at the vids when they were made arguidos, gerry came out looking shell shocked, i think that was the time he thought it was game over and charges would be filed, that's why they legged it back to the UK post haste and promptly hired extradition lawyers knowing they could afford the best and avoid stepping back on Portugues soil. When they finally did return they sought out assurances they would not be arrested.
It has only been the last few month to a year that kate's looks have gone to pot.
She looks now like she should have looked when Maddie vanished.

What has changed to cause her current haggard look?

The libel trial and Goncalo Amaral refusing to accept their offer to drop the case ( they knew what would come out and their own hindering of the search) the crimewatch case also revealed a part of the truth ( i don't think they knew the e fit would come out) it is the perfect storm, the reopening of the case in Portugal. An investigation by SY which will also include the fund and the fraud purpetuated by them, the libel trial where their hindering of the search will be revealed, the same thing they are accusing Dr.Amaral of. There is also the stress of maintaining a facade of innocence, the guilt of what she did and has done since.

My fear is she will snap and murder-suicide, everything she worked hard for will be lost forever, if she can't have the twins no one can, it would be a kindness for the twins as they wouldn't have to live with the shame etc. She has told us this is what she would do.

Hobnob said...

off topic



LAWRENCEVILLE, Ga. – The father and stepmother of a 10-year-old girl whose body was found in a trash can at a metro Atlanta apartment complex have been charged with murder.

Gwinnett County police said in a statement that a man called 911 at 3:43 a.m. Saturday and said he was suicidal. He also said his daughter drank some type of chemical and was dead.

The man pointed officers responding to the call to a trash can at the complex, where they found the badly burned body of a child.

The victim has been identified as Emani Moss. The father, Eman Moss, and the stepmother, Tiffany Moss, are both charged with felony murder, cruelty to children in the first degree, and concealing a body.

Both are being held at the Gwinnett County Detention Center.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/03/georgia-father-stepmother-charged-with-murder-after-10-year-old-body-found-in/?intcmp=latestnews

Skeptical said...

It's been a while since baby Lisa disappeared from the Bradley home. Does anyone remember any quotes from Lisa's mom or dad that would indicate they know where she is hidden? I don't recall any.

Anonymous said...

No.sorry.

Buckley said...

She made a comment about being afraid of her back yard.

Rose said...

I wish we had a forum on this site where we could discuss individual cases. I think the "off topic" stuff is great to discuss, but we really do not have a good place for it, except under articles on that topic, and many are too old to generate any more interest or discussion.

MO said...

Anon 8:33 and 8:35. I disagree. If the OTs were being tossed into a lively discussion it might be disruptive but when there's a lull I find the OTs interesting reading until the next topic. JMO

I do agree with Rose that it would be nice to have an open discussion page.

Carnival Barker said...

Just for the record -- and this is official since I am a court reporter and official keeper of the record :) -- I always appreciate any and all OT posts.

Grateful said...

I find posts by John and Hobnob insightful and interesting, OT or not.

Why discourage bright minds from sharing? How difficult is it to skip over OT posts that don't interest you?

Juliette said...

I enjoy the off-topic articles and links, as well as the on-topic comments.

I like reading here, it's interesting, and it's always informative.

Anonymous said...

agree w/ juliette. luv hob (and hob nobs are delish). all comments and OT should be allowed.

Lemon said...

"Hobnobs blog" . . .hehehe :)

S + K Mum said...

I don't mind the OT posts, the only thing is when you try to find them again after a period of time it is difficult as you can't remember which thread they were under!

Anyways, McCanns, isn't it remarkable that the latest suspect is a Black man from Cape Verde?! Not anything like the 'vital' efit just released 5 years later by SY.....or any other efit that's been released. Very frustrating and very sad for his family - his picture is all over the newspapers :(
In the first day or so after Madeleine went missing Kate looked like a mother grieving but she managed to pull herself together when the media interviews started and police were looking for an abductor... she didn't look drugged to me. Speaking of drugs, why did Gerry and Kate have medication belonging to a Mr Healy (her father?)on holiday with them? Saw those on the police videos.

Peter Hyatt said...

I love the off topics from Hobnob, John, and others. I often use them for new articles, time permitting.

If I can figure out a section for entering off topic links, I will put it up. thanks, Peter

Anonymous said...

Thanks Peter.

What about for Kyron's case?

Where does TMH say to go?

Buckley said...

Yes, the off-topics often give us fresh statements to analyze! Keep 'em coming!

Hobnob said...

My blog is mostly crumb free and donut free ( cos i ate them all) hehe

Hobnob said...

"I think the most important thing to say is that the evidence that's been presented by the PJ and the Prosecutor to the Judiciary and the judiciary, having reviewed all of the evidence, have said that there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there's no evidence to implicate us in her death and that's the message really which we fully expected to come out after the files were published and from our perspective, the most important thing is that Madeleine probably still is alive."
Oh dear gerry, this is a huge slip of the tongue.

You have just told the world Maddie is dead and that you were both involved.

Innocent parents would have said no evidence to implicate us in her DISAPPEARANCE since she was allegedly abducted and could still possibly, though unlikely, be alive.

She is dead and you have told us there is no evidence to implicate you in her death.
Why then was there the rush to hide her body. set up a fake abduction, a fund and outright refusal to co-operate or have kate answer those 48 questions.

From your perspective she is probably still alive, let me rephrase that, from your perspective, she has to be alive otherwise apart from the fund being a fraud and the charges resulting from a fraud both here but also in America (they don't take kindly to wire fraud) there would be a lot of awkward questions and charges.
From the perspective of others she is probably or most defintely dead.
Qualifiers weaken a statement, the more qualifiers the weaker.
Probably still are qualifiers, without the meaning of the statement stays the same.
When you read those last few words it sounds off, out of order.
What would flow more easily is "probably still alive"
This is how we would say it.
Why is gerry so disjointed?
Probably still is alive sounds strange, it sounds probably still alive as to what?
Probably still is dead?

You see the brain wants to tell what it knows, a crime once done cannot be undone, it becomes not a case of if, rather, when, you will be caught.

Right now you are surrounded on all sides, the legal trial, the PJ investigation, the SY investigation and who knows what else and where else.

Trusted friends 6 years ago are no longer as trusted or even friends, relationships change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Right now the only thing linking you all is a sordid dirty little secret about the death of a little girl and the subsequent cover up.
What went on before Maddie died?
Who was involved?

Can you trust them to stay on side? to stay quiet?

Will the do a plea deal when they see which way the wind is blowing?

Can you trust kate and can you kate trust gerry?

What if the twins remembered things that could incriminate you?

You can stop them growing up unless you do a Maddie on them, you can't stop them reading the papers, accessessing the net or listening to the news, family and friends.
Once they reach 18 they are their own person, how will you answer their questions, explain your lies and non c-operation?
How will you explain away making Maddie a ward of court?

keep talking mccanns and chums, the more you speak the more we know the truth.

Anonymous said...

Hobnob, I am wondering about how can guilty people keep up the charade for years? I mean I understand avoiding prison is a big drive, but still, how can they live life that way? How can they put so many innocent people's life through suspicion, investigation, asking friends family to lie for them etc. Letting people to take time off work to go to search for weeks, etc.

The McCann's first interviews were the strangest.

About why Kate did not search: "might not be physically searching, but"
About the danger: "it was a very safe resort" "it was such a relaxing holiday"
Is there a lesson to learn? : "...what is done is done"
Were there searches in the ocean as well? They rented boats, I remember reading some of their friends went out with a boat that afternoon too.

I read about another case where the body was very hard to find because the murderer was a landscaper,he was used to dig deep holes, and he burried the body so deep, cadaver dogs didn't sniff it out.
It just made me think if the guilty's proffession or hobby has influence on the way or place the body is hidden.

Shelley said...

Being that Madeleine’s parents likely moved her body in the rented car…

I wonder if they some how had the body cremated?

Sure would solidify any chance of evidence being found.

AKA her body or any clues that would provide.


Maybe they hid her in a tunnel underground.

Came back later, got the body and transferred it in the town car.


Possibly wrapped her up in plastic and took the body back to the UK and had the body cremated there.

I just feel like they have a lot of connections with their profession and having connections to morgues etc... This is feasable for a doctor.


Shelley said...


I was looking at some of the statements made by Sergio and Becky Celis and came across this article.

What I find interesting is how, like the Mccanns, they have hired their own "private investigators". So we have possible clues that are kept secret (Mccanns e-fits).

This being that they suspect a family knows something that could bring her home.

The article is below. But I again put myself in this position. If I thought someone knew where my missing child was... I would not refrain from using their name. I would not sit back and let "private investigators" get blocked by an attorney. I would find them and I would MAKE them talk.

All this protecting the name and soft language to me proves that all the original thoughts we all had on this blog that they were responsible for her death stands.



http://www.azfamily.com/news/Parents-say-family-member-has-information-about-Isabel-Celis-221417801.html


Parents say family member has information about Isabel Celis .Print
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MORE!X DiggDeliciousTumblrLinkedInStumbleUponNewsvineReddit Pinterestby Jason Volentine
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azfamily.com
Posted on August 28, 2013 at 7:03 AM

Updated Tuesday, Sep 3 at 9:54 PM
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Gallery
.See all 2 photos »

TUCSON, Ariz. -- There is a startling revelation in the case of a missing Tucson girl that's gone all but cold.

Isabel Celis disappeared in April 2012.

Now, as Isabel's eighth birthday approaches, her parents say there is someone who they believe could help bring her home.

Isabel's father said a family member, whom he won't name, has refused to talk to the couple's private investigator.

"It's frustrating to run against a wall of this person has an attorney and they're not going to let them speak a word, protecting somebody that we feel has a lot of information to give," Sergio Celis said.

Sergio does not believe that person committed a crime but does have information of some kind.

"And if it has to be anonymous, so be it. We just want her home. We want our baby home. We want this nightmare over," said Becky Celis, Isabel's mother

Shelley said...

So I was looking for information on tunnels near where Madeleine went missing and found something interesting...
**********************************

Here is the link:
http://www.anorak.co.uk/209157/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccanntunnels-under-praia-and-a-new-theory.html/

**********************************
Then a summary:

A British woman wrote to UK detectives saying: “There are six to eight tunnels under Praia da Luz that the PJ [Portuguese police] have not searched. There is a tunnel under the church, there are tunnels under Estrela da Luz apartments. These have not been searched.”
**********************************



What I found very very interesting was that this woman noted as well as "under the church"

I am very curious about the keys to the church they had. Was this the church Gerry had the keys too?





Suzanne said...

Just saw this today:

Obama denying promise of "if you like it you can keep it" re: insurance/Obamacare...

http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/

I think his pants are now officially on fire.

Anonymous said...

OT


by T. Kevin Whiteman
Iyad Albattikhi and Mohammed Reveshi free on technicality…

British authorities are re-opening the cold case file on 14-year-old Charlene Downs, who went missing 10 years ago and local police have long since suspected her of being murdered, and worse, cut up and used in shish-kebabs at a local restaurant, as reported by the Daily Star (of London, UK) on Nov. 2, 2013.

Police in the northeastern English town of Blackpool are also re-opening the case of Paige Chivers, 15, who was reported missing in the same locale in 2007.

There is fear that both girls were victims of “grooming gangs,” the British term for adult men who lure then trap underage girls, usually through drug addition, into the global sexual slavery market.

As reported, there are accusations arising that young Charlene was sexually abused by approximately 100 men before her disappearance.

Widely Ignored by the American Media… 

As covered by Examiner.com, the murder trial of Charlene Downs by fast food shop owner Jordanian immigrant Iyad Albattikhi and his business partner Mohammed Reveshi fell apart when secret surveillance tapes were thrown out of court, despite police recordings of the duo admitting to killing her and serving her flesh to unknowing customers.

Prosecuting attorney Tim Holroyde stated to the jury in May of 2007:

Albattikhi laughed and said she was very small – the plainest possible indication that he was lying to the police when he said he did not know her.

He and others present then laughingly said that Charlene had gone into the [shish] kebabs.

Albattikhi’s business partner, Mohammed Reveshi, was charged as an accessory who disposed of the body by cutting her up and running her, bones and all, through a meat grinder.

Some of the recorded back-and-forth between the two:

Reveshi said: “Her big bones went into the machine as well, you know that, don’t you?” Albattikhi replied: “Her bones? Did you . . . inside the machine?” “Yes,” Reveshi said.
Reveshi had said to his partner: “Well, hopefully I [done] it properly you know . . . he thought he saw me cutting her body up.”
“Do you remember she was bleeding to death?” “Yes,” replied Albattikhi. “So that she made a mess,” Reveshi allegedly added.
Later in the transcript Reveshi allegedly says: “The last one then, it was the last deep one and then it was the [heart] . . . that finally killed her.”
At one point Reveshi said: “I’m so worried and you was the one who killed her.”
Naseem Malik, the IPCC (the Independent Police Complaints Commission) Commissioner for the North West of England, is in charge of the organization that handed down the ruling that stated “the covert surveillance evidence gathered against the two main suspects in the case was flawed.”

In layman’s terms, in the tape recordings, the two accused admitted to chopping Charlene Downs into small bits and using her flesh on their menu can never be used in court.

As cited by the left-of-center The Independent of London in October of 2009:

The IPCC revealed that the flaws in the evidence included the fact that much of the recorded tape and video evidence was not properly transcribed, that the officers working on the investigation were “inexperienced and untrained” and that the informant, Mr Cassidy, was not properly briefed and so therefore asked the suspects leading questions.

Anonymous said...

OT

The Powell family have filed a motion with the courts stating they want a neutral third party to be the conservator of Susan Powell's estate.  Why? 

Chuck Cox, Susan's father is currently the conservator and according to the Salt Lake Tribune, if they can bounce him and put in a neutral party, they have a better chance of going after the $3.5 million in life insurance policies.

For those of you that may not remember Susan Powell went missing in 2009.  Her husband, Josh Powell told authorities he took their two sons camping in freezing temperatures to the Tooele County Desert around midnight and when they returned Susan was not there.  He became a person of interest in her disappearance all the way up to his death when he slammed the door on a social worker that was bringing his son's to his home for a visit and them blew up the house, killing himself and his children.  Chuck Cox and his wife had custody of the boys after the state took custody of them in 2011 when child pornography was found in Josh's father's home where he was living with the two boys.

Chuck Cox
Terrica and Alina Powell, Josh's mother and sister are fighting for the life insurance because they say that Cox became conservator after the fact, and Cox did not have the authority to do that. 

Third District Judge L.A. Dever stated, "I'm not saying he can't act as conservator for her estate, the question is can he modify the trust?"

A Washington probate judge named Chuck and Judy as owners of the home that was in Susan and Josh's name and then the Coxes went to a Utah judge to change the home's title in 2012, which held them responsible for the mortgage on the home.   It was a Washington judge who named Chuck and Judy as the administrator of the grandson's estates.  This is probably because they received full custody of the boy's.

Josh changed the beneficiary's to the life insurance many times before his death.  In the end it listed his siblings as beneficiary's, but the insurer told the courts they were  not sure who the rightful owner of the life insurance proceeds were because of Josh's role in the children's deaths. 

"If Joshua Powell is considered a slayer within the meaning of the law, he is clearly not entitled to the proceeds of either the children's riders or Susan Powell's insurance policy," the filing stated.  It also stated because Washington is a community property state, Josh could not give away the proceeds of the property without Susan's consent, and it should go into the trust."

Cox's attorney Anne Bremner told Dever that the Powell's had challenged the conservatorship in Washington and lost and their going to a Utah court to do the same thing was "venue shopping."

Anonymous said...

For almost five years, followers of the Madeleine McCann mystery have debated back and forth wondering why the British Establishment stepped in to assist the Tapas 9 in a way never seen before. There have been many missing British children. There have been missing British children abroad. Many Brits have found themselves in legal pickles abroad but they have never had the red carpet treatment. Not, that is, until the McCann Roadshow came along.

A vast array of former policemen spoke of the McCanns’ innocence without having full knowledge of the circumstances. Murdoch owned newspapers like the Sun and the News of the World fawned over Kate and Gerry. Private planes were brought in to ferry the McCanns around like they were superstars. Gerry was nominated for “Scot of the Year” and both he and his wife were on first name terms with two successive British Prime Ministers.

None of it made sense.

When the police file became public in the summer of 2008 we learned that the Portuguese Police were far from the bungling Keystone Cops they were made out to be. They were diligent, thorough, and they were hampered because of an interfering British Government. Evidence was withheld from the Portuguese. A semen sample suddenly turned into a saliva sample after the British Forensic Science Service looked at it. The samples were, in turn, destroyed by the FSS so the investigators have no chance of a second opinion. The McCanns’ financial and medical details were withheld by British government intervention. Bombshell testimony implicating Gerry McCann and David Payne as potential paedophiles was deliberately withheld from Portugal for about five months.

Shelley said...

I found the full statement Gerry Mccan made about the tunnels.

Sure does make me wonder. Since he says he was in "the church" at the time and this church from how I am taking it is connected to these tunnels and he had a key to this church which makes no sense to me.



Pat Brown (Profiler) has this on her site. She is the other one that wrote a book and from what I understand it was very much like the theory that the main decective wrote about in his book. Both times the parents fought hard to stop the book yet have not fought at all to find their daughter.



In an interview given to the Catholic newspaper The Tablet, published 16 June 2007, Gerry McCann told of an "extraordinary experience" inside the church in Praia da Luz just days after Madeleine's disappearance. The experience inspired him to launch the global campaign to find his daughter.
He said: "When I was praying I started thinking of all the things that were happening. There were lots and lots of ideas in my head and how we could make things better and I was really feeling very down and not sure which way to proceed. I had this mental image of being in a tunnel and instead of the light at the end of the tunnel being extremely narrow and a distant spot, the light opened up and the tunnel got wider and wider and went in many different directions. I talked to you (Kate) about it and said, 'I am not prepared to pursue one path. We are going to do everything in our power to influence things.'

"It was almost like something - I am not saying it was the Holy Spirit - came into me and gave me that image. That is when I really felt I had a clear path."

Was it a religious experience?

"I can't say it was a vision because I am not clear what a vision is but I had a mental image and it certainly helped me decide. I became a man possessed that night. The next day I was up at dawn, making phone calls."


Shelley said...

I found where they mentioned why the Mccans had the keys to the church. But this appears it was AFTER she went missing and not before....But its not clear. Just seems that way.

*****************************


Full article: http://www.thetablet.co.uk/article/9930

*****************************

And the part about the keys



It was Fr Zé at that first Sunday Mass who exhorted them to have hope, strength and courage. That evening he came to say the rosary with them at their apartment and invited his parishioners as well. Was it all a bit much?

"Not at all, it was lovely. There were about 50 women and they brought the children. It was a huge comfort," she says.

The parish priest also gave the McCanns the keys to the church so that they could pray there alone in the evenings. It was while they were doing this early in the first week that Mr McCann had an extraordinary experience.

Hobnob said...

off topic BBM

Toronto Mayor Rob Ford is expected to make an unspecified announcement shortly after admitting earlier Tuesday to smoking crack cocaine _ a stunning admission that came as councillors drafted motions to limit many of his mayoral powers.

“Yes, I have smoked crack cocaine but … am I an addict? No. Have I tried it? Probably in one of my drunken stupors, probably approximately about a year ago," Mr. Ford said during a City Hall scrum on Tuesday.

Mr. Ford insisted he would not step aside. “I am not an addict or an alcoholic. I have work to do and I am moving on. The way I see it now, this is over,” the Toronto Sun quoted him as saying.

The mayor’s acknowledgment came as he prompted reporters gathered in front of his office to re-ask questions they had first posed more than five months ago.

Toronto Police said Mr. Ford’s comments would be forwarded to officers. “The information that was provided is going to be passed onto investigators,” said Constable Wendy Drummond, a force spokeswoman.

Mr. Ford’s admission came only hours after his brother, Councillor Doug Ford, called on Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair to step down, citing 'bias'. Chief Blair revealed last week that the force had recovered a video that allegedly shows the mayor smoking crack cocaine. He said the video was “consistent” with explosive reports carried by Gawker and the Toronto Star in May that said drug dealers were peddling the video, which shows Mr. Ford holding a crack pipe.

Since then, Mr. Ford has faced intense calls to resign or step aside temporarily. He has defiantly said he intends to remain in office and run for re-election in next year’s election.

On Tuesday, Mr. Ford said he doesn’t recall the incident apparently captured in the recording.

“There’s been times when I’ve been in a drunken stupor. That’s why I want to see the tape. I want everyone in the city to see this tape. I’d like to see this tape. I don’t even recall there being a tape or a video and I know that. So I want to see the state that I was in,” he said.

Mr. Ford said he believes the incident happened about a year ago. “I don’t even remember, after some of the stuff that you guys have seen me, the state I’ve been in. It’s a problem,” he said.

Although reporters have asked Mr. Ford several times if he has used crack, the mayor suggested he had not discussed his past use of the drug because the question had not been put to him. He has, however, long insisted he is not addicted to crack.

“I wasn’t lying. You didn’t ask the correct questions. No, I’m not an addict and no, I do not do drugs. I made mistakes in the past and all I can do is apologize, but it is what it is. And I can’t change the past and I can apologize to my family, my friends, my colleagues and the people of this great city.”

The mayor's brother, Councillor Doug Ford, arrived back at City Hall shortly after the mayor's announcement. He said he had not heard what the mayor said but was heading upstairs to his brother's office.

Earlier in the day, two Toronto city councillors were attempting to limit Mayor Rob Ford's powers via a notice of motion to be presented this month and debated in December.

Hobnob said...

The motion, tabled by councillors John Filion and Paul Ainslie, sets the stage for a showdown at the December council meeting. It asks that city council suspend the mayor's power to appoint and dismiss the deputy mayor and standing committee chairs. It would remove the mayor's ability to shuffle the members of his executive committee and hand that power over to city council at large.

The motion cites the police documents and investigations revealed last week as the motivation to strip the mayor of his ability to pick and choose his executive committee.

"It appears that a majority of members of council and a significant number of members of the executive committee have expressed serious concerns about the mayor's ability to lead the city government at this time," the motion reads.

At around noon, one of the mayor’s political allies tweeted a motion that urges Mr. Ford to take “a temporary leave of absence to address his personal issues.”

The motion, drafted by Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong and seconded by Peter Milczyn – both members of the mayor’s powerful executive council – lays out a stinging case against the mayor based on evidence in a recently released police document.

“The evidence presented to date suggests the Mayor has a substance abuse problem,” it reads. “The Mayor consorts with known criminal and/or individuals involved in the sale and distribution of drugs. The Mayor misled the residents of the City of Toronto with regard to the existence of a video in which he was involved and/or participated in the use of crack cocaine.

“We as a Council believe the Mayor’s conduct is unacceptable and must stop. He is hurting himself. He is hurting the City of Toronto.”

The motion also recommends that the mayor apologize for “misleading the City of Toronto” regarding the existence of an alleged video showing him smoking what appears to be crack cocaine, co-operate with police, apologize for writing a character reference for his friend and alleged drug dealer Alexander Lisi, answer questions from Council.

The motion is expected to go before council on Nov. 14.

“He’s got to step aside. Take a break. Get some help,” says Councillor Paula Fletcher.

Councillor Jaye Robinson, who asked for the mayor to take leave from his job in May, said in light of the revelation she still thinks the mayor should step aside, but not resign.

"He has personal issues that are affecting his ability to conduct himself in his position as the mayor of Toronto," Ms. Robinson said.


"He, at this point, does not have a scrap of credibility left. We've had a battery of lies come from both Doug Ford and the mayor over the last six months."


After calling for the mayor to step aside in the spring, Councillor Robinson was removed by the mayor from his executive committee. Asked if she feels vindicated now that the mayor has admitted to smoking crack cocaine, Ms. Robinson said no.


"I feel sad. I feel sad for my city. I feel sad for the mayor. I feel sad for his family," she said. "This is a very unfortunate situation for the city of Toronto."

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne said it is “very difficult” for city hall business to carry on normally.

“That’s my biggest concern as a citizen of this city and as the premier. We want municipalities to be able to function and there is a huge amount of turmoil at city hall right now and that’s what’s of concern,” she told reporters.

Asked whether the province would step in, Ms. Wynne said: “There are laws in place around when elected municipal officials can be, must be, removed from office and that’s why I say the police service and the judicial system have to take action.”

Hobnob said...

Normal rational people behave in a certain way is a specific situation, non rational people or people with narcissistic, sociopathic , psychopathic or similar personalities will act a certain way in a specific situation.

Kate and gerry are both narcissistic and sociopathic personalities.
They enable each other which is why Madeleine died and both conived to dispose of her body cover it up.
Gerry is an alpha male which is why he is so controlling not only of kate but the rest of the group as well. he likely has a hold over them, some dirty little secret.
I strpngly suspect he is an abuser at home of both kate and the children. With him everything has to be perfect ( something often found in high flyers or with stressful jobs) I wonder if Maddie was his bio child. it would be a massive blow to his ego that they needed IVF to have children, who had the problem i don't know, it wouldn't surprise me if it lay with him.
This leads me to wonder if Maddie is his bio daughter, if she wasn't we have a n motive for him to get rid of her, she was almost perfect and she wasn't his. The twins meanwhile were perfect and biologically his.
Kate was obsessed with their sleeping patterns hence the chart and the strong tempattion to sedate them ( tools and knowledge)
She couldn't handle them hence family members flying down or visiting and staying over to help her cope. I wonder if the visits tied in ti when gerry was away for more than a day or overnight. Kate admitted she struggled with Maddie which again gives her a motive. Could it be that the families didn't trust kate to be left alone with the children for any length of time.
Since it is clear from their behavior and language they didn't bond with her (wanting to fob her off to a family memberperhaps or even into care)the distancing language, the blossoming of kate as if a weight had been lifted from her shoulders, the non searching etc. They didn't miss Maddie at all. They now had the perfect family blonde boy and girl twins, big house, good jobs, high social standing and buckets of money. They carried on as if nothing happened because to them nothing of worth had happened to anyone or anything of worth. We are seeing the real kate and gerry, it's all about them and screw Maddie. When charges are laid expect diminished responsibility from kate based perhaps on PND or other mental health issue, gerry will blame kate and then make bux from book and movie sales, playing the hubby who lied to protect his family etc.
Perhaps this is why they refused to allow the medical records, credit card and phone records to be seen by the PJ. It would reveal the truth, the dirty little secrets like gerry's CATS 13909 file etc. They sat on evidence for 5 yrs not the behavior of an innocent parent but very definitely the behavior of a guilty parent.

Shelley said...

Does anyone know what was meant by

"Blood is indicated on the key of the vehicle"

I understand that the "boot" is the trunk to us in America. But what is the "key"?

Hobnob said...

the keyfob, it's used to open the car door or start the engine

_kim_ber_ly_ said...

Peter, there is free open-source forum software out there like "phpbb" that would allow you to create forums so the comments for each particular case could be organized in consistent threads. I love reading all the comments too, but find it hard to follow when multiple cases are discussed in the comments of a single blog post.

S + K Mum said...

I don't think there was any kind of bond between Madeleine and her parents. There is a distinct lack of Madeleines personality being portrayed by the parents and the family. What did she like to play? What did she like to sing? What was her favourite story? What did she like to do?
I remember Kate saying at the beginning 'she's lovely'. Is that it? It's almost as if they don't want her to come across as a real person or have these things tug at peoples hearts...why are they sidelining her? They couldn't even print out a picture that showed how she looked at the time she disappeared. Really? I get mad that these two are paraded around and treated like celebrities. They are child neglectors at the very least.
I cannot wait for the day that those two are made to answer to that fact.

Anonymous said...

Gooch likes to smooch
Bea Wacker on the cooch.

Buckley said...

Or, about every fifth or sixth post, he can create an open dicussion thread. I'd prefer he stick with the "blogger" platform and not something different.

Local anon in the Hailey Dunn case said...

I'm with Buckley. I like the idea of an open fourum post. maybe aevery 4th or 5th post?

Anonymous said...

mayor ford is a crackhead. this one kid from a twon near by where i was working, came in and was asking about could he get caught for breaking into a church and stealing stuff which he denied he did. someone asked him if he saw any security cameras, he said no i didnt see any. busted.

Anonymous said...

He said: "When I was praying I started thinking of all the things that were happening. There were lots and lots of ideas in my head and how we could make things better and I was really feeling very down and not sure which way to proceed. I had this mental image of being in a tunnel and instead of the light at the end of the tunnel being extremely narrow and a distant spot, the light opened up and the tunnel got wider and wider and went in many different directions.
----------
imo, what caused him to have this "meeting" with his god, is fear that LE would soon bust him for what he did. the path he was shown, was for him to misguide LE in many directions, leading away from him. it is so clear now, he can see. lol.
---------
I talked to you (Kate) about it and said, 'I am not prepared to pursue one path. We are going to do everything in our power to influence things.'
yep.

a-n-o-n-y-m-o-u-s said...

an open forum should have a select number of choice topics.

Peter should be able to find the most popular topics just from reading the posts & seeing which ones generate the most responses.

i.e.:
Subject: Hannah Anderson
or
Subject: Finding Remains of Missing Children
(Trenton Duckett?)

Buckley said...

But I thought one of the main points of an open thread was for others to bring topics we- including Peter- might not be aware of yet. Or new statements on old cases. To me "open" means open. Just my 2 cents.

Anonymous said...

a true open thread would eventually have the topics hidden - much as is the case already
generalized topics is a good idea to sort by interest

Anonymous said...

Elaina Steinfurth case in Toledo, OH, the boyfriend's mother's statement on a tv interview was we looked for her in the garage. That is where they found her remains.
What toddler do you know that can get into a closed up separate outdoor garage??

SAH said...

Peter,
Would you please, please write about Fred Murray's statements re: his missing daughter Maura Murray?

This one was only hearsay, but I thought it was relevant to this topic:

"I remember [Fred Murray] pointing up to the mountain and saying, 'She walked up there. We'll find her at the top. Drunk and naked.'"

Please take a look at the Maura Murray case, Peter. And if you have any insights about it, I would urge you to tell them to NH Law Enforcement, as they seem to be having a lot of trouble cracking this one.

Best,
SAH

Anonymous said...

OT

Published: 11/6/2013 - Updated: 6 hours ago

East Toledo toddler suffered multiple broken bones, autopsy finds

Two months and a day after the remains of a missing East Toledo toddler were found in a computer box, officials have ruled the death of Elaina Steinfurth a homicide, saying the injuries are from "non-accidental trauma."

The results of the autopsy were released today by Dr. Diane Scala-Barnett, a Lucas County deputy coroner.

Dr. Barnett reported there were "severe acute fractures to the joint areas of the arms and legs." Five bones were impacted, she said.

No assessment of soft tissue and organs could be completed.

The girl, who garnered national attention, was reported missing from 704 Federal St. on June 2. The case remained a missing-persons investigation until Sept. 5 when police, acting on a tip, found skeletonized remains in an unattached garage behind the Federal Street home.

The remains were, within days, identified as Elaina's.

The toddler's mother, Angela Steinfurth, and Mrs. Steinfurth's boyfriend, Steven King II, are charged with obstructing justice for allegedly lying to police during the course of the investigation.

Mr. King, 23, and his family own and live in the Federal Street home.

Prosecutors have been waiting for autopsy reports to determine if additional charges would be filed against either Mrs. Steinfurth or Mr. King.

Mr. King's trial is scheduled to start Dec. 9 in Lucas County Common Pleas Court; Mrs. Steinfurth's pretrial is scheduled for Nov. 20.

Shelley said...

Thank you hobnob. Interesting a scent was picked up on those.

Elaina had 4 broken bones. I can not imagine what that baby went thru. Mom and boyfriend need to fry.

and I agree that Madeleines parents had no connection to her. Her dad recently said something a long the lines of "we are a happy family, but an incomplete family".

I am sorry, how could you be happy knowing u
you daughter was out there, possibky in pain, scared cold ? The more they speak the more it goes beyond a selfish overdoes. But sheer lack oc concern about anyone but themselves

Rose said...

I too would love an analysis of Fred Murray's statements. The one thing that always stood out to me about Fred Murray is that he says "you know" after talking about how he an Maura spent the weekend before the accident shopping for a car.

I do not think Fred Murray is responsible for his daughter's disappearance, and I also do not think he knows what happened to her or where she is, BUT I do think, contrary to what he claims, that he knows why Maura Murray drove to that location that day.

His own words give him away.