Friday, May 23, 2014

Tammy Moore Bond Change: Pregnancy Claim

Tammy Moorer, accused killer of Heather Elvis, has sought change to her bond conditions due to pregnancy.

Revealing herself as dominant, vicious and neglectful to the children she had, she has sought, through her attorney, to be released on bond, or conditions that would allow her prenatal care, while awaiting her murder trial.

Moorer' pregnancy has not been confirmed and prosecutors declared their doubt.

If pregnant, she continues to neglect her pre born child, refusing prenatal care and vitamins.

“I do not believe it is a foregone conclusion that she has a viable pregnancy,” Elder said. “Ms. Moorer has continued to refuse prenatal vitamins and prenatal care. She refuses to be seen by an OB-GYN.

Tammy's posting of hatred before being charged with Heather's murder was so overt, that it broke principle of statement analysis where guilty parties at least attempt to masquerade hatred of a victim, fearing being seen as a suspect.

Tammy Moorer was either unable or simply unwilling to even try to hide her venomous hatred of Heather Elvis. 


33 comments:

Nea T said...

It is very odd that of Tammy is truly pregnant, that she would want to prove that to the courts. In her case she is asking to be released on bond for a reason she is unwilling to verify, I don't think her little bump is with baby.

Hobnob said...

I agree Nea T

If she were pregnant then seeing an ob-gyn, having scans would prove it.

That she refuses is telling, since, as we all know, by not answering the question, you are answering the question.

it would be quite easy for her to sneak in postive tests from other prisoners or from tests bought online and smuggled in via visitors and then claim to be pregnant.

I wonder who provided the tests, if they were from doctors chosen by her or if they were chosen by the state and thus independant.

If all else fails withing the next few months she should be showing a nice bump and after 9 months a baby should be born.

This is not something she can fake in a prison.

GeekRad said...

The Michelle Williams ploy. Next is oh I lost the baby.

Lily said...

Good call on Michelle ... I knew this felt like deja vue of something!

I thought it was telling that the judge is willing to review the bond reconsideration again with more proof of pregnancy ... yet her attorney says he has no plans to ask for a reconsideration.

floridamomma said...

I had to give a statement last night, and realized I said the following: I went to my room and got my .45. later I said, I raised my gun...
nothing changed, so why did I use two different names for it?
I'm curious!!

Anonymous said...

was it my perceived change in safety? I had it at my side until the guy approached, and I raised it.
interesting. would love input...

Hobnob said...

it was a .45 whilst it was in your room, it became a gun the moment you raised it.
As you said it was a change in reality, when you are safe it is a .45 in your room, the moment you felt endangered and raised it, it became a gun. I would be interested to know what you called it at the end of the incident ( especially if you fired it or not)

elf said...

Hobnob I can tell you've never been to jail lol its not easy to sneak anything into a jail. I've heard of some people sneaking in small amounts of drugs or tobacco but its not easy or pleasant. In the jails I've been in you don't have anything in your cell except for paperback books, dull pencils, sanitary napkins, a blanket, and toilet paper. The meals are served in styrofoam containers, drinks in styrofoam cups, and your plastic silverware (fork, spoon, or spork) better be sent back with your styrofoam meal container or your cell gets tossed. To my knowledge a hard plastic pregnancy test would not be allowed to remain in the cell with inmates. I guess a nice jailor or guard may put a positive pregnancy test in with your personal items you came in with but that inconvenience (having a prisoner out of the cell, retrieving the personal items list and then the actual bag/box/basket that the stuff you were booked in with, adding the object to be added to personal belongings, initializing the addition to the personal item added) well, it'd have to he a really slow day and a nice guard to do all that, and most aren't that nice. But there is no way any person who is incarcerated would be allowed to keep a hard plastic pregnancy test in a cell. It would put others in danger.

Anonymous said...

just becauase somebody is claiming she's refusing vitamins -- doesn't mean she's refusing vitamins, or that this is an accuratate description of the conflict. perhaps se requested better vitamins - and they were like well if you don't take these you get nothing. she doesn't have her own voice in jail. it's not verifiable whatanybody is requesting or refusing or has access to or is denied access to in jail. if she can't speak for herself -- there's no way to know.

Anonymous said...

jail is AWFUL. not least of all because of all the fith and disease. HIV is rampant, and there are bacterial infections that will never heal that you can catch just from letting your bare foot touch the floor. if she's pregnant but possibly not having a healthy pregnancy or viable pregnancy, you can bet she's despondent. killer or not.

Anonymous said...

"making Syndey stupid"

I suspect Sydney did it by himself, to please Tamy, and pease himself by feeling in control and free of temptation. and Tammy realized it, maybe even appreciated it, but she did not actually "do it".

Anonymous said...

Wondering how far along she supposedly is, and I can't remember when exactly Heather went missing. Could she be planning to use pregnancy hormones, pregnancy loss, etc. as an excuse for her charges? Even if not this pregnancy, the idea has now been put out that she's had previous failed pregnancies.

floridamomma said...

Hobnob, I think you're on to something there. I did not shoot. I called 911 and believe I said "gun". I know I told hubby "my gun"... he knows which one is mine. I generally think of it as "my gun". Hmmm....

Anonymous said...

floridamomma,

I have an alternate explanation for your change of language.

As a former FL resident myself, I assume that as a gun owner, you probably have more than one gun. Much in the same way that people appropriately introduce a person with a social introduction, first identifying you gun as "my .45" and later as " my gun" you had already introduced your gun and differentiated it from the other guns you may have. After the introduction it was no longer necessary to say " my .45" since it would be unlikely that you would have subsequently picked up a different gun.

The same would likely hold true for me as well. If I were to pick up one of my handguns I would likely refer to it by its caliber to differentiate it from the others. The one difference if if it was a .40 S&W since I have two of them and both are Sig Sauer. In that case I would say the 226 or the 239.

-Akula

Anonymous said...

Why would someone say that they doubt Moorer has a "viable" pregnancy? This is puzzling. Is the pregnancy ectopic in which case it would not be viable and jn which case she herself would be endangered.
The word "viable" here indicates this individual is lying about her not being pregnant. A person is either pregnant or not. Saying "I doubt she has a "viable" pregnancy, the doubter protests a bit too much.
The individual conveys their lack of confidence that she is not pregnant.

Anonymous said...

I went to jail during my 6th month and was there until 2 weeks before she was born. I was hysterical at the prospect of giving birth in jail. The jail is not obligated to pay the extra money for pain medication. The whole time one wrist and one ankle are handcuffed to the bed. You're allowed 5 minutes with your baby and then a family member can take your baby home or else he goes into state foster care. Your transferred back to jail within 12 hours and the girl I saw was in terrible pain from her episiotomy and problems due to engorged breasts. I was horrified. The only prenatal care I received was vitamins and I would get violently ill without food. I requested crackers to help em stay down (which were approved occasionally for inmates) but was denied. When I said I couldn't take em the doctor wrote I refused all prenatal care. I couldn't stand the food but one day an inmate said "you better choke down that food. You baby needs to eat" from then on I would force feed myself without thinking of the taste. Other inmates would give me food they didn't eat too. I've never been back Thank ya Jesus!! My daughter is 6 now... and as much disdain as I feel towards TM I just can't wish such an experience on any mother.

Nvmomma73

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:48,

That is sick and sadistic how they shackle women giving birth in prison. There was a whole scandal here in MA about it.
Shackling a woman in labor and giving birth--that is about as sick as it gets!
The topic actually angers me because I feel so nauseated at what a human rights violation it is.

Anonymous said...

Also, anyone who agrees with or isn't repelled by the idea of shackling and handcuffing a woman giving birth, you have to wonder how different they are mentally than some of the worst offenders in a prison. It very much disgusts me that that practice exists!

Anonymous said...

"I do not believe it is a foregone conclusion that she has a viable pregnancy,"

If you guys want to figure out if she is really pregnant or not, use statement analysis on the above sentence.

"viable pregnancy"
This is like saying I do not believe he has a driveable car.
I would be admitting within this sentence that he has a car.
"I do not believe it is a foregone conclusion she has a viable pregnancy"
This sentence betrays the fact that this individual knows Tammy is, in fact, pregnant, but doubts the pregnancy itself is "viable" because Tammy is not taking vitamins which is utterly ridiculous.
So, anyway, for the sake of factual information, statement analysis says that Tammy Moorer is pregnant.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 7:42,

Donna Elder is an attorney.

Rule 427: Tactics do not apply to lawyers and investigators. Reason: Profession influences responses.

Ms. Elder's respons is couched in an intentionally and legally circumspect manner because of her education and experience. I see nothing in her answer that suggests that she believes that Ms. Moorer is pregnant.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 8:42,

For what reason would she need to be careful about how she worded it? Either she is pregnant or she isn't.
The only reason she would need to be careful about her wording is if her pregnancy was truly in danger of not being "viable". Otherwise, her language is merely evasive, not wanting to come right out and admit Tammy is pregnant.
I also found it slightly interesting she used the word "viable", a word almost used to indicate whether a fetus can live outside the mother and not whether a pregnancy will make it full term. Perhaps a bit of a Freudian slip indicating Tammy claims to be 6 mos pregnant.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 9:21,

I think we might be talking past each other. I was responding to your suggestion that your analysis of Ms. Elder's statement suggested that she displayed some belief or knowledge that Ms. Moorer is pregnant. What I was trying to convey is that Mr. Sapir, who literally wrote the book on SA, teaches his students that using SA on someone who is either a lawyer or an investigator may be unreliable because of their profession. Hopefully, I am being more clear this time.

-Akula (Sorry I forgot to sign my name last time)

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, TM is not pregnant at present. Her request for reconsideration for bond was a form of manipulation and it did not work. I believe that she was greatly hoping that the hearing would not have been pushed out so far from the original request to help validate her hormone levels. TM is not, nor will be, the only woman to be pregnant in jail, if she even is. If she is so concerned for her unborn child (notice the living children were not discussed or the rotten meat and cat feces in her own home?) then she should have thought about the living Heather Elvis before she allegedly killed her out of sheer rage. TM should have spent more time on jail boards and less time on Disney boards to see if the hate was really worth the risk. Jail is not the happiest place on earth! I hope that her attorney was warned not to disrespect The Court's time in such a manner again. The fact that she tried to address the judge direct when she was told not to, speaks to her level of delusion. TM thinks that she is smarter than everyone else and until she figures out she is a country ass chicken wing, she will struggle greatly in her life and rightfully so.

SL

Atlchanel said...

Very well said, SL!

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 10;10,

I didn't know Mr. Sapir suggests that in his book but I do appreciate you telling me about it. We may have been talking past each other.
However, I have seen many times on this board people use SA to analyze lawyer's statements, particularly such statements as "my client is 100% absolutely innocent", and I have never seen anyone point out that using SA on a lawyer was unreliable. I can see how one would be on shakier ground using SA on a lawyer though, and I do appreciate you pointing this out. However, I do think certain info can be gleaned from a lawyer's statements using SA. I do feel that the expression "viable pregnancy" is very sensitive, indicating a strong possibility the lawyer is not speaking with conviction regarding Tammy allegedly not being pregnant. We shall see I guess.
On a different note, I don't understand, commonsense-wise why Tammy would fabricate such a claim to try to get out of jail. It is not as if she could just put a pillow under her shirt and carry out a pregnancy lie--I would think she would have to actually be pregnant to try to use this as a reason to get out of jail on bond.

Anonymous said...

A baby conceived out of pure jealousy over the one conceived with heather? Disgusting. They purposely were trying before their arrest?

Anonymous said...

Or a replacement for the one they killed?

~mj said...

http://www.thestate.com/2014/05/23/3463357/woman-charged-in-heather-elvis.html

As it turns out, the attorney used the term "viable pregnancy" because TM had her hcG levels tested and the 2nd test did not show the levels had doubled as it should have. So she has a positive test, but the follow up one indicates that it is very likely the pregnancy was not viable - at that time. That was back in March, she has refused further testing. So the last doctor proof indicates non-viable pregnancy. It makes sense the attorney would reflect that language.

Anonymous said...

mj, Thanks for the info. It does confirm that I was correct in doing SA on the lawyer's language.
We are not doctors. Just bc the levels had not doubled does not mean the pregnancy is not viable. She would have miscarried by now if the pregnancy was not viable. Interpret the language without bias.

rob said...

You are right on, SL, TM was not concerned about the filth in her home, that the other children lived in. If you need special treatment when you are pregnant, then don't go around killing other people.
I have no sympathy for TM, but if she is pregnant, I do have sympathy for the child. She can have it and have it over after the birth. Very likely, she will never see freedom again to raise her children.

rob said...

right on, SL. She was not concerned about the filth her other children were living in at her home. If you need special treatment when you are pregnant, don't go around killing people. She will not be the first, if she is pregnant, to have the baby and hand it over. I don't believe TM will ever be free to raise her children, anyway.

Jen Ow said...

Hi Anon,

I've struggled with fertility issues for years, and monitoring HCG levels is a reliable way of determining whether a pregnancy is progressing.(viable)

In the first 12 wks of pregnancy, HCG levels double about every 48 hours. If levels do not progress as expected, and a fetal heartbeat is not later detected, then the pregnancy 'didn't take'. (The woman may not even have known she was ever pregnant, if she was not monitoring her cycles closely, or undergoing fertility treatments where all of her levels were being closely monitored.)

It appears that TM was trying to get pregnant. After she was arrested, she took tests which gave mixed results. According to the articles, the test she took in jail came back negative, which would mean HCG levels of less than 5, (or at least under 25) as it is the threshold for most commercial tests. Then at the hospital she tested positive, which would likely mean levels over 25. However her levels did not increase when the test was repeated 2 days later, so the pregnancy does not appear to be progressing/viable. The article also says that ultrasound didn't confirm the positive results.

(If I were given this information/results by my doctor, I would not believe I was pregnant.)

Apparently Tammy doesn't believe she is pregnant either, or she would retest, and do whatever she needed to prove it, especially when it is what she needs to have her bond reconsidered.

I think TM and her attorney likely thought the bond hearing would take place sooner, and they would have had a better chance of arguing for new bond terms without these test results for the judge to consider.

Anonymous said...

She's not freaking pregnant. This is just a legal maneuver.