Wednesday, October 8, 2014

The Devastation of Lying: Stephen Collins and Sexual Abuse

Stephen Collins recently admitted to 'molesting 3 little girls' and, as has already been pointed out by commentators, this is likely a minimization of what he has actually done.

In one quote, he began in passive voice, as if the little girl's hand had a mind of its own, only to correct himself in active voice.  Passivity in Statement Analysis shows a distancing language where one wishes to avoid responsibility.  "The gun went off" is a lot easier to digest than "I pulled the trigger."

For Collins victims, even as 40 years may have passed, the consequences continue.  What came of his victims of this unnatural and evil action?  We have statistics to guide us on what kind of lives these young girls might have faced, as well as every person who loves them:

promiscuity and the self-debasing accompanying it;
venereal disease
suicide
substance abuse,
self loathing
self injurious behavior
depression
anxiety
panic disorders
compromised immune systems and the host of diseases that the body failed to successfully fight off;

and on and on the list goes, without anyone knowing, exhaustively, what the few moments of abuse did to the life of the victim.  Nor do we know the pain that the spouses, children, and parents of the victims experienced.  We do not know what marriages disintegrated because of a stolen moment of perversity, what careers were derailed, and what promises in life went unrealized.

Many victims hide their sufferings behind the facade of a professional and successful career, not showing the tears, the nightmares, or the private terrors she faces.

The victim often acts out her pain, which can then be acted out against an unsuspecting husband, who, going along in love with his wife, knew nothing about what went on inside of her, including her "panic" over being loved, since childhood sexual abuse interferes with brain development.  This means that when you and I turned a certain age, we closed the bathroom door because we knew where our bodies ended, and the boundary for someone else's body, and we wanted privacy.  The 3 year old sexual abuse victim knows no such thing.

The self loathing teenager wants to be called "slut" by her angry father and, 20 years later, may act out just to get her husband to despise her and call her the same derogatory name.  Why?  Why would she want that?

It is her comfort level.

During critical brain development, there were things that were done that had powerful, explosive after effects that even as 40 years has passed, as is the case of Stephen Collins' victims, the suffering can not be fully told.

In recent conversations about the impact of deception in sexuality, men and women have spoken about being happily married only to be utterly shocked to learn that one was having an affair.  Victims of childhood sexual abuse are, percentage wise, likely to destroy their marriage in this manner.

The statements from such differed greatly from the statements of married couples who were having marital problems, one or both had affairs, both were hurt, but the hurt was mitigated by expectation.  It was those who, for whatever reason,


Described as being laid open bare, and filleted from the inside out, without anesthesia.  Others have called it the "atomic bomb" of their lives.

Men have said that they did not know who they were.

A case often shared in counseling is that of a successful author who had family and business success only to one day learn that his wife was having an affair.  He was so terribly undone that he went to his  family cabin in the woods to "put his affairs in order" and began writing farewell letters to his grown children.

Even in counseling, the abuser will often minimize, and the denial will be powerful.  This sometimes is seen in the language, such as Collins choosing "3" victims.

I would wager a cup of coffee: there are more.

He was unable to find a purpose or a will to live.  As the story goes, he wrote, at length, to each of his grown children and at the end of several days, the drive to commit suicide lessened, as he journaled his pain through.

The suffering has a lot to do with the element of shock.  There is shock to the spouse of the childhood victim, and shock to the victim's children.

One husband described it to me in these terms.  He said, "Everything I am is gone.  Everything I thought about myself is a lie.  Everything I thought I knew I didn't know.  I don't know who I even am, anymore."  A successful young professional, he knew of his wife's sex abuse history, and had supported her years of therapy.  They were happy together, though she was often almost frigid when it came to intimacy, and was often afraid of strange men, without cause.  When he learned that not only had she had sex with a stranger, but did so in his car, in a dangerous neighborhood, he said, "I do not recognize her, either.  She is an utter stranger to me."

A few months later, he had declared "victory" in overcoming the triggers and that he and his wife "were never happier."

I cautioned him that his present euphoria was the body's rebound to the shock of stress and to prepare himself for the fall.

He almost committed suicide a few weeks later.

The perpetrator of his wife was a close family relative.  She was a little girl and not only trusted him, but listened to her parents' praise of her uncle.  She grew up hating herself for thinking her uncle was a "bad man" and had to accept that she "was the bad" for her thoughts.  Her hatred of herself (common with sexual abuse victims) was enough to drive her to do things that would cause parents, teachers, and even peers to sneer at her in disgust.  The disgust she received made her "comfortable" as she "deserved it."  The one person in this world who refused to condemn her was her husband.  For years he devoted himself to her.  At the time of her infidelity, he thought it was impossible for them to be any happier.  The kids were great, work was great, and together, they were best friends, sharing every secret.  He even accompanied her to any store where strange men made her fearful.

Yet, something triggered her, and she did that very thing that would make him join the rest in condemning her.

He then attempted suicide.

He turned to his mother-in-law for help.

The victim's mother is now, even at a latter age, racked with guilt for failure to protect.  Did she know?  How could she not know?  What of denial?

She lashed out at her husband, denying any sexual abuse even though her sexual acting out from the abuse had happened for more than 10 years before she met her husband.  The drugs, alcohol, and indiscriminate sex were all designed to destroy her, just like the perpetrator made her feel worthy for nothing but destruction.

What of Stephen Collins' victims?

What of their husbands?

What of their children's?

We often hear minimizing language and denial within parents of victims, especially if the perpetrator is the father or uncle.

There is a movement within our country to get pedophilia to be yet another disability; that is, the government's responsibility to pay for housing, and pay the pedophile to stay home, in housing that is away from school districts.  The pedophile will be rewarded with money for his evil and the money will come from taxation; taxation of victims who work.

This is to re-victimize the victim in order to satisfy a perverse sense of an immoral compass, turned on its head.

It will not be the first time we have seen the maladies in the DSM go political rather than dealt with.

Once politics enters, the emotional contest begins to see "who is the most compassionate?" and go down the path to:

Begin the quest to remove pedophilia from the DSM,
Move on to getting common Americans to accept pedophilia, and begin the "don't judge!" campaign, which is the bane of the weak minded;
and eventually, come to praise it with the bowing to the god of tolerance.

What was once considered a perversion that demanded restraint and treatment, has already moved into the next step in Europe:  perverted child molesters should not be punished, they should be 'helped', which is the political code word for money.

The sexual abuse victim, suffering for a life time, along with her loved ones,  will now have money taken from her pay check and given to the perpetrator in order to "treat" him.  As this cash cow is fought over, the next step is "understanding" and having "compassion" (again, code words for someone to ask, "how much is this going to cost?").

The victim may have to give up her parking spot to the perpetrator.

Eventually, evil is called good, which is the final step.

It is shouted down now, but as morality has become a blurred line, and terms like "marriage" are redefined, words lose meaning.  As we move from a nation of laws to a nation of chaos, the move to "accept" pedophilia, will continue.  Eventually, Hollywood will portray a pedophile in an emotionally accepting role (cue just the right music), while bigamy may be chuckled at.

The suffering of Michael Collins victims is not only unknown, but may be immeasurable.

Strong prison sentences are intended to frighten pedophiles into staying away from children.  We cannot legislate thought (we've seen what 'hate crime' has done in dividing our country), but we can legislate action.

Having said all of this, there are those who, molested as children (generally males) who have a sexual attraction to children, who voluntarily undergo treatment, but more importantly, undergo voluntary boundaries, staying away from children, who deserve our assistance.  When I say "our assistance", this is not code for money, or for the government, but for men and women of good will to encourage the pedophile, who recognizes that nature has been twisted into something foul, and seek to not act upon their evil thoughts.  I have met some who have voluntarily told others of their private curse and hell, agreeing to not be alone or even around children, who were accepted by others.  It can happen within a community. There are medications that help, including those that seek to quell sex drive.

But when the government talks about "acceptance", remember who government is:

government is an opinion with a gun, and if you do not agree with government's opinion, it can, at the end of that gun, coerce you into that which you do not agree with.

Not good.

Not the purpose of government.

If a man molests a child and receives a 50 year prison sentence, and is kept in prison for the entire sentence, it is very likely that other children will be kept safe.

As to the one victim?

The victim will suffer for his or her entire life, likely longer than the prison sentence.

Should Collins make a statement, we'll cover it.

63 comments:

Katprint said...

Here is the transcript of Stephen Collins' therapy session: http://realmrcelebrity.com/2014/10/07/transcript-from-stephen-collinss-therapy-session/

"Wife: When you exposed yourself to ___’s 10 year old sister, did you have an erection?
Stephen: No I mean, no. Partial maybe?
Wife: Partial erection?
Stephen: Maybe, yes.
Wife: How did you talk to her? What kinds of things did you say?
Therapist: What is it that you’re looking for?
Wife: How did you talk to her? What kinds of things did you say?
Stephen: The… the exposure happened a couple of times.
Wife: A couple of times? You told me once.
Stephen: No, I said on the list it happened several times. I said on the disclosure.
Wife: Several times? Oh, you have to understand I was being shot in the face with a shotgun so I… several times /
Stephen: It happened.
Wife: With a ten year old? Okay.
Stephen: Well, no. She was eleven and then like twelve and thirteen.
Wife: Oh my god.
Stephen: There was never any conversation around it.
Wife: There was… but…
Stephen: There was one instance.
Wife: But how did you like- there was one instance what?
Stephen: Well this is in the disclosure and I told you before there was one instance, where for there was one moment of touching where her hand, I put her hand on my penis.
Wife: You put her hand on your penis?
Stephen: Yes. That was in the disclosure. That was also… I also told you that when…
Wife: With (beeped out name)?
Stephen: Before that when we were in the hotel.
Wife: You gotta, you got to understand that um… it’s hard to take in.
Stephen: I got it.
Wife: Okay.
Stephen: It lasted a few seconds and that was the last time anything ever…
Wife: What were the other girls’ names?
Stephen: Um… (beeped out name)
Wife: I want the first and last names.
Stephen: I don’t know (beeped out name)’s last name.
Wife: And who was (beeped out name)?
Stephen: (beeped out name) was the niece of the woman who lived across the way at (beeped out). She is someone I actually saw about twelve or fifteen years ago I made an amends to.
Wife: Did you date her?
Stephen: No. No. Date her?
Wife: That’s outside the realm here?
Stephen: Oh.
Wife: Did you date her after you disclosed? Just wondering Stephen. We need to know.
Stephen: No.
Wife: Okay. How many times with (beeped out name)?
Stephen: Once.
Wife: And… um… you said that there was another girl? How many girls altogether?
Stephen: That’s it.
Wife: No, you said there was…
Stephen: No, help me out here. There was (beeped out name)’s sister. There was (beeped out name).
Wife: So (beeped out name)’s sister who was uh… 10… because she wrote me… because (beeped out name) was 10. Um… 10, 11, 12, around several years…
Stephen: There were – I think, yes, there were like 3 incidents over about 3 years.
Wife: Okay, so and then there was the girl across the way at um at um on (beeped out).
Stephen: That’s (beeped out).
Wife: And then there’s (beeped out name). So it’s just three?
Stephen: Yes.
Wife: You’re sure?
Stephen: Yes."

I want to know what the "list" or "disclosure" is that he keeps referring to.

[Please delete my post if posting it is inappropriate.]

Katprint said...

from http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/07/stephen-collins-statement-molestation-child-tape/

"Collins' lawyer, Mark Vincent Kaplan, tells TMZ, "Over the course of my representation of Stephen in the divorce case, Faye has repeatedly threatened to give this audiotape to the media unless Stephen agreed to pay her millions of dollars more than that to which she was legally entitled."

Kaplan goes on, "When these demands were rebuffed, Faye attempted -- without success -- to peddle the tape in numerous ways to numerous different people. It appears that she has finally found an audience for this tape -- not surprisingly, on the eve of the trial in the divorce case where, again, she is seeking millions of dollars more than that to which she is legally entitled."

Kaplan then says he'd like to address the audio confession but can't, saying, "Though we would like to address the tape itself, the circumstances dictate that we must regrettably refrain from doing so at this time."

So, no denials that the molestations happened -- just the red herring of the exwife's motives.

Interestingly, the statement by Stephen Collin's lawyer about the timing of the disclosure of the tape is directly contradicted by divorce records which indicate the exwife promptly gave a copy of the tape to police in Los Angeles and New York way back in 2012 when the tape was created. http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1007_Stephen%20Collins.pdf

The exwife says "I woke up today to learn that an extremely private recording I handed over to the authorities in 2012 per their request in connection with a criminal investigation was recently disseminated to the press. I had no involvement whatsoever with the release of the tape to the media." http://www.eonline.com/news/586267/stephen-collins-estranged-wife-faye-grant-had-no-involvement-whatsoever-with-alleged-tape-s-release-to-media

Anonymous said...

There is a movement within our country to get pedophilia to be yet another disability; that is, the government's responsibility to pay for housing, and pay the pedophile to stay home, in housing that is away from school districts. The pedophile will be rewarded with money for his evil and the money will come from taxation; taxation of victims who work.

Yet the other movement no one shines a light on is the one in which the First Amendment trumps all other movements if it benefits the one seeking gossip and medical/counseling transcripts for profit. These movements are also the same reason people today do not want to face their abuser in court.

Anonymous said...

There is a movement within our country to get pedophilia to be yet another disability;

That's the least of what the "movement" intends: some want pedophilia to be accepted as just another form of "love" like homosexuality. Another "choice'.

Anonymous said...

My oldest daughter was molested twice at the age of 8 by an acquaintance. She is now 33, and we are still feeling the effects. She was just committed to another psychiatric facility today - I would guess this is the sixth or seventh time - for being suicidal.

To a great degree, this has destroyed my family. Her younger sister was, to a great degree, almost forgotten while they were growing up. Dad was severely handicapped, and I tried my best to support the family, get help for my husband and daughter, and hold it all together.

This type of behavior is just devastating, not only to the victim, but also to his or her family, and the consequences last for decades.

Her abuser was declared mentally incompetent, put in a psychiatric facility for four years, and then deported.

tania cadogan said...

Stephen: There were – I think, yes, there were like 3 incidents over about 3 years

Ooops

there we have the liar's number mentioned twice in one sentence.
he doesn;t tell us there was three, only there were LIKE three incidents>>

he is being deceptive by minimising and ommission

Anonymous said...

I know of one woman that has never been able to work because she had the crap beat out of her going to a fast food place when another woman thought she may have bumped her car.
The assault traumatized her!

Were the cops called? No. Why? They couldn't locate the person that beat her. (Do it yourself law enforcement isn't good for society, either).

The same holds true for those trying to form the perfect world in which to live. While they are out digging up dirt on people to sell to the gossip mongers, their kids are terrorizing others to the point they can't work.

The Christian perspective needs a little dulling down in my opinion.

john said...

OT Update:

While Casey Parsons takes plea deal, husband Sandy appears to be going to trial

http://www.wbtv.com/story/26733064/while-casey-parsons-takes-plea-deal-husband-sandy-appears-to-be-going-to-trial

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:33,

I don't really understand your post. I don't understand what you mean by it's a way of not really letting someone out of the trap without consulting with a TV personality. With all due respect, could you clarify?
Also, I do feel that calling someone a "slut" is a form of violence. It is not literal physical violence (although it is common for many violent abusers to call their victims names such as "slut", "whore",etc.) it is a psychological assault and in my opinion could be perceived as sexual harrassment. Regardless violent abusers VERY commonly use verbal assaults such as "slut" "whore" etc. It is not normal in my opinion for any father to call his teenager daughter a "slut" for any reason. I don't have a daughter, but if I did and my husband ever called her a slut he'd be in sleeping in his car. Likewise I do not feel it is normal for any husband to call his wife a slut. I feel Peter has some insightful things to say in this article, but I feel, perhaps unwittingly that he is not well informed about domestic violence and how any abuser "despises" his spouse and will think that she has provoked him into calling her terrible names like "slut" or any other name he hurls at her. I also feel that although many childhood trauma victims certainly can go through periods of self-destructive behavior that it is not fair to generalize and say that a traumatized individual would actually seek verbal abuse. Most traumatized individuals would want to be treated with love and respect like any non traumatized individual. I think Peter may simply have some misconceptions he should clear up.

Anonymous said...

I do agree with Peter that abuse can profoundly effect a person's psyche and that these sick abusers in their absolute sick selfishness would seem to have no idea how huge the damage they cause to their victim's minds and lives. Stephen Collins' psychiatrist diagnosed him with narcissistic personality with sociopathic tendencies so this is one sick individual who probably is almost completely or completely lacking in having a conscience. So he is one sick individual who did not give one thought and I'm sure has not given one thought to the damage he caused his victims. And hasn't felt any guilt for it at all. Reading the transcript, there is no guilt.

Carnival Barker said...


Anon 11:51,

I think it's a fairly common theme in psychology that you feel like "you're home" when you are exposed to the same things as an adult that you were exposed to as a child. The smell of perfume OR the smell of stale beer breath could make you feel like "you're home," depending on the home you grew up in. I think what Peter meant by "comfort level" was really "familiarity."

JustMe said...

Carnival Barker, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Katprint said...

Excerpt from radio interview with Ilene, the nanny who worked next to the building where Stephen Collins lived: http://mix1041.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/exclusive-nanny-speaks-out-about-stephen-collins/

"Ilene: Well, I used to be a nanny that worked right next door to Stephen Collins and Faye Grant in the early to late 1990s. [interruption by DJ deleted] And he used to, he used to come over for breakfast every morning and have breakfast next door with us. Not too sure why. But, um, he would show up in his striped pajamas, uh, old fashioned grey old grandpa pajamas. Um, and they were very protective. They had a little girl and they had a very odd nanny who I had to hang out with but she only wore purple.

But Stephen, that was when he was also writing a semi-pornographic novel as well which I think, I think is called Eye Contact. Um, yeah, but, um, they were very nice parents to their daughter but very odd.

DJ: Now, when this news came out yesterday, was it shocking to you or what?

Ilene: It, it made me, it was creepy because I knew him as a dad. I knew him as a family man. Um, you know, I knew things weren't great between him and Faye, and they were always in therapy and always threatening to leave each other but, you know, for their daughter they, they were always there for her. So, it was weird to me that he did that to other little girls as well and he was so close to his own daughter. So...

DJ: And this is all allegedly, obviously.

Ilene: Of course. Allegedly. Yes.

DJ1: And it didn't bring back any situations that you may have remembered or anything like that, recalled?
DJ2: Any red flags?

Ilene: He was never, ever inappropriate in front of us. You would never have known anything was going on. I always thought it was weird that he wrote a, a pretty graphic novel. I thought that was a little odd because he didn't seem like that type of person when you knew him. So when you read the book, you were like wow, uh, this is pretty dirty.

DJ2: Well, it's interesting. How did you get to read the book he was writing?

DJ1: Well it's actually a mystery thriller. It's not pornographic. It's under the mystery thriller category. I'm looking it up right now.

Ilene: And I'm not sure if it was that one that he was writing at the same time, but he let us read some of the book before it was even published as he was writing it.

DJ1: Yeah, he's done a couple. He's done Eye Contact and then Double Exposure.

DJ3: Was it a pretty affluent neighborhood that they lived in, I imagine?

Ilene: Yes. We, he lived on 19th Street on Madison Avenue so it was very affluent. And the apartment they had was beautiful with, you know, park views on the 5th floor. It was absolutely gorgeous.

DJ1: Oh, so this was in New York. I was thinking it was in L.A. This was in New York City.

Ilene: No, this was in New York City."

Anonymous said...

Katprint, Don't put words in Peter's mouth. He did say a woman would "want" her husband to despise her and call her terrible names like "slut" if she was abused as a child. I was physical abused as a child and I do not seek physical ot verbal abuse as an adult. How condescending to talk about another human being and declare that they must "want" to be verbally abused by their father ir husband. That brings us to the next point where Peter explains this is because abuse "interferes with brain development" causing to become a masochist. Really?! First of all, unless Peter is a neurologist, it is preposterous for him to declare he knows anything about brain development. What a condescending thing to say. Peter is not qualified to declare anything about brain development since even experts do not understand much about the brain or how it develops. He certainly is not qualified to link what seem to be emotional or psychological issues in the woman in his example with actual physical abnormalties in the woman's brain.

Katprint said...

Anonymous, I think you have confused me with someone else. I posted the transcript of the therapy session, a statement by Stephen Collins' lawyer, a statement by his exwife Faye Grant, and a radio interview with a nanny who lived next door to the Collins back in the 1990s when the incidents happened. I posted links to all of these. I think someone else must have posted the comments you are referring to.

Saint Theresa said...

I believe you are taking his post way too personal. He is describing what the extreme can range from. I understand that each victim of abuse deals with the effects of it differently and recovers (if possible) differently.
I didn't read where he said every woman who has been abused feels they are worthless enough to provoke loved ones into hating them and verbally a using them.
I'm not a neurologist either but I've reasearched enough in certain areas of the field to know how the brain works. Psychology 101, and few other sociology classes passed and viola....knowledge is power.
I know from what you said that you were abused and are a victim of abuse, I'm sorry for what happened to you.
He's speaking of a case that is different than yours and is explaining that woman's case and I'm sure other victims can relate to her behavior even you cannot.

Saint Theresa said...

Should read: even if you cannot.

Apologies. Wish there was an edit feature.

Anonymous said...

Katprint I am sorry. My post was directed to Carnival Baker.

ima.grandma said...

nicely said Saint Theresa. thanks.

Anonymous said...

Saint Theresa, Thanks for your comment. I appreciate what you are saying, however Im not taking his post personally, I did share that I have been abused as a child simply to offer the knowledge that abuse victims wish to be treated with love and respect just as much as nonabused people. Peter shared an example where is making medical and psychiatric judgements about a woman from info about the woman's behavior from a secondhand source the husband (this is according to what he said) and in no way is he qualified to make either judgement about the woman from secondhand info. Peter even says how the husband seemed to have reached some understanding of his wife's behavior and seems to feel better about things, but Peter omnisciently tells him it is just adrenaline and he will soon crash (this is paraphrased). Then lo and behold, Peter is right, because the man soon becomes despondent and tries to commit suicide. Peter is not qualified to diagnose a person based in secondhand info. How does he know BOTH sides of the story. Onviously there was something wrong with the guy as he tries to commit suicide because he was having marital problems.
I dont feel people provoke abusers. Period. Anyone who does feel people provoke verbal abuse has probably never been in an abusive relationship to know just how manipulative abusers are and how they attempt to tear down their victims with assaults on their humanity by hurling words such as "slut".

Anonymous said...

If a product is sold in stores proves to be defective, it is taken off the shelves and destroyed.

Same thing should be done with pedophiles.

They cannot be cured. They destroy innocence.

Carnival Barker said...

@ Anon 2:31,

I had a feeling that you said "Katprint", but your comment was directed to me.

I'm not here to defend Peter or put words in his mouth. I was only explaining my interpretation of what he wrote. I used the quotes for emphasis.

Your experiences color how you interpret someone's words and intentions, and mine do the same for me. I was simply describing what the view looks like from my window; I wasn't trying to minimize or trivialize your pain. Your journey clearly isn't the one he describes, but that doesn't mean that your path has been the only one traveled.

Kellie said...

Carnival Barker said...

I think what Peter meant by "comfort level" was really "familiarity."

October 9, 2014 at 12:08 AM

Agreed. Many people confuse what's familiar with what's wanted or comfortable.

Saint Theresa said...

@anon 2:48

Okay you may not be taking personally if you say so, I apologize; though you do seem to have some insight into the way a victim of abuse behaves and/or deals with their feelings.
I'm not defending peter here either. I come here for the statement analysis and like the deeper analysis of crime in the news. I don't always agree with peters posts and I see why you are calling him out. I just don't think it's valid and you're missing the lesson.
The human brain is so fascinating and there is always new studies and new information gathered by scientists doctors and lead pros in that field. That said, when working with victims of abuse, being schooled on the psychology and pathology of the victims thought process is very important. I don't see the problem with anyone using what they know and applying it to the case in front of them.
Basically what I'm saying is, I doubt peter just pulled this all out of ass.
He may not be my cup of tea all the time, and I find his ability to group members of our society into bad apples and good apples hard to swallow. But a misoginist he is not.

I think he is fully able to make psychology and medical judgements. This is where you and I disagree. Being in the social working field gives you access to many different cases and you learn what is going around you. I'd take his experience and considerate accurate or in the ballpark aware he isn't a medical doctor. It's just silly to have to argue and get upset because that's not what you've experienced personally or never seen anything like it.

Katprint said...

The post at 2:44 was not the real Katprint®. Accept no substitutes!

Anonymous said...

Saint Theresa wrote
"That said, when working with victims of abuse, being schooled on the psychology and pathology of the victims thought process is very important. I don't see the problem with anyone using what they know and applying it to the case in front of them."

Saint Theresa, I highlighted this because this is exactly the problem that I had seen in Peter's article. Abusers inflict suffering upon their victims. It is not a dynamic through which one can project any pathology onto the victim themselves. If someone walks up to me on the streets and beats and mugs me, does that imply there is something wrong with my psychology, does it imply I must be pathological? No. Of course not. Because an individual is abused in childhood, this does not mean they are pathological, the same way adult victims of domestic violence are not pathological. There are certain dynamics such as Stockholm Syndrome which exists in victims of abuse, as it exists in victims of torture by a corrupt state etc. But this syndrome is quite different than masochism, in fact it implies the opposite whereby a person is seeking relief from maltreatment and comes to see their abuser as the one who can bring them some relief as the result of repetitive alternating cycles of abuse and then kind or kinder treatment. It is basically an illusion whereby victims attribute good characteristics to their abusers as the result of isolation and the abuser alternating between cruel and kind(er) treatment of the victim.
Basically what I am saying is that victims of abuse do not have psychological pathology. They may have emotional scars, etc. but pathology implies there is something abnormal about their psychology, that they are damaged, Peter has even mentioned interference with brain development. Victims of abuse are quite simply being treated like crap and I think it is a mistake to think any victim wishes to be treated poorly as some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, as it makes no sense. There may certainly be some people who do not believe they are worthy of being treated well, but this is very different than what Peter is saying that a person could want to be called names or cause another person to despise them and treat them poorly. Basically this is pathologizing the victim, and it stems from a misunderstanding of the motives and manipulations of an abuser (essentially it comes from a misunderstanding of abuse).I do not mean this condescendingly, as it is a common misconception. Abusers are quite skilled at presenting themselves, their victims and their behavior as something quite different than what it is, essentially it is cruelty, however they attempt to get people confused about what they are doing and oftentimes people do end up feeling the victim must be pathological or doing something to provoke verbal or physical abuse. It's an illusion abusers create, and well-meaning people can oftentimes buy into it simply out of confusion.

Anonymous said...

We live in a fallen world. Child molesters didn't always carry the stigma as they do in today's society. In fact, many countries still practice it as much as Americans. It is passed down and accepted. It is wrong, but where is the bottom of it all? Many were abused themselves which is the sad part of thinking you could just dump them in the trash like a broken product. Half the population would most likely be eradicated.

People like NG makes the situation worse. Each day there's a news story of teachers abusing children-even raping- a many are women. Something that wasn't heard of in years gone by. Too sad.

Perhaps the talks with the children should happen earlier and prevention would help. They make too much money off the trials and promote causes other than the prevention of sexual abuse, imo, instead of demonstrating this is wrong and changing a culture. The areas that are most abhorred by the crime seems to have the most of it. Why?

Kellie said...

In a striving to make sense of it all, it's interesting how nearly all people try to attach blanket rules to all things. The fact is we are all individuals and although there may be a set of "often seen" effects in the aftermath of any life experience the reality is no one fits a cookie-cutter mold. There are variables in everything concerning life. It's only those with an expectation of sameness or a sensitivity to a particular subject who feel insulted or become defensive when someone speaks an opinion that differs from their own.

I am fairly certain Peter does not perceive himself as one who speaks with absolute authority on all matters! He is only giving his opinion and that should be an unspoken given to anyone reading his opinion.

Carnival Barker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carnival Barker said...


@ Kellie,

Uh-oh! I feel a long, strongly-worded comment is coming your way in the next 10 minutes or so. :)

October 9, 2014 at 11:12 PM

Kellie said...

@Carnival Barker

lol Ah well. Whatever it may be it's still only their opinion ;-)

john said...

OT

Reward increased for woman missing from Plano since Labor Day weekend

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/reward-increased-for-woman-missing-from-plano-since-labor-day-weekend.html/

Anonymous said...

Why not set up a search and recovery fund in lieu of a college fund?

Her boyfriend hopes she is "kinda alive and safe."

Saint Theresa said...

@anon9:05pm...you posted
"If someone walks up to me on the streets and beats and mugs me, does that imply there is something wrong with my psychology, does it imply I must be pathological? No. Of course not. Because an individual is abused in childhood, this does not mean they are pathological, the same way adult victims of domestic violence are not pathological. "

That is not even a close comparison and is a poor example to use to what I'm trying to explain and what peter posted. Being mugged in a random crime has nothing to do with anything. Try again.

I think you're looking for an issue with peters description in his post, are now saying he's generalizing yet I see you generalizing.

Like I said before, this is one woman's case of serious sexual abuse that effected her perception of safety, love and being loved. It affected her relationships and changed the meaning of emotions for her, ultimately confusing the hell out of the husband and subconsciously abusing herself because her brain changed in order to protect her sense of familiar, normal and/or comfort.
Think of it like bizarro world. Up is down etc.
It then effected her husbands perception of her and pushed him to his limit. Read peters post again and try to look at it from the husbands point of view.
Obviously peter was involved with this couples issues on a therapeutic level or a social level, this I'm not sure of. Doesn't matter really though.

This woman behaved in such a way knowing that what she was doing was disgusting and felt she deserved being called a slut or whore afterwards because the disgusting abuse in her past created a familiar response that meant safety(even though it was anything but) or was predictable when her brain and body was still developing. It's extremely sad and the husband being betrayed and deceived in such a gross way called her slut . Not knowing she was a victim of sexual abuse during her young formative years, I would say she deserved being called a slut. Maybe saying she "provoked" him to called her a slut is confusing you, I'm not completely sure what you're not understanding about peters post.

Saint Theresa said...

@ kellie... I totally agree with your post. Very well said.

Saint Theresa said...

@kellie. Also I wanted to add, that it's very ignorant to see a generalization as wrong. It's easy to say there's always an exception, which there always is but generalization is nessesary to see the picture and solve problems when it comes down to it.

Anonymous said...

St Theresa, You are the one who is generalizing. How do you, Peter, me or anyone else know the reason the woman in the other example slept with another man? Could it be possible she simply wanted to for whatever reason? Maybe her husband didnt treat her well, and she sought comfort in another man. Maybe she didnt even sleep with another guy and the husband was just jealous and paranoid! How would the husband know where exactly the wife slept with another man (in his car) and exactly where the car was parked (in a dangerous neighborhood)??? Peter obviously believed the guy's story, but I dont. It sounds more like an overly jealous husband making up BS. Regardless, even if she did sleep with another man, this does not give her husband the right to call her a slut. He certainly has the right to be upset and hurt, but it does not give him the right to verbally abuse her. Notice the passive language used "when the man found out....", not "when his wife told him she had....". How did the man find out his wife slept with another man in a car in a dangerous neighborhood? I believe using statement analysis the guy made the story up. Regardless, no husband has the right to verbally abuse his wife. Then the guy tries to kill himself! If anything the guy sounds unstable. Seriously, plenty of people get cheated on and they dont try to kill themselves. Pathologizing victims is WRONG.

trustmeigetit said...

People do not understand the chain of events this stuff causes.
Most people who do this to their children or others have children who do it to others.
My moms family had a lot of child abuse like this. My mom stopped the cycle and I was lucky.
Her sister turned out like their parents….
She had 5 kids. All but one were removed by the state and in most cases just placed with strangers who did the same thing. 1 is in a mental facility. The rest have gone on to live in poverty and surround themselves with horrible people to include sexual predators.
My aunts oldest daughter also went on to have 5 kids. Again, all were removed by the state. All but one have turned out the same. That one that turned out good was adopted at age 12 by a good family who got him counseling since he had spent his life from the age of 2-12 being abused by one foster home after another. Horrible things that I won’t even repeat they are so terrifying.
I can go on, this is the tip of the iceberg and I know now there are grandkids. I don’t have anything to do with them because of the life they live and I will not allow them near my son.
My point is, this spreads like a wild fire…. One person does it to 2, they each do it to a few people now we have 8 affected, they do it to more people now we are in the 20’s.
Society needs to get serious and treat this like the horrible inexcusable crime it is. There are harsher punishments for those selling pot which is harmless and now legal in many places.
But repeat offenders need the death penalty. PERIOD.
There is no cure and they are not safe in society. They will and do reoffend. Many get worse and it leads to murder.
And if tax money cannot help homeless children, can’t care for our vets etc etc etc then why why why do we feed and provide shelter to these monsters that are nothing but a danger to society.
To me the answer is death. They do not need to be alive. They will not change they will only continue to spread misery and create more abusers.
And that frees up money to help those that need help and deserve it.

And if you don’t agree with me in regards to the death penalty then I have a solution there too, you can pay for their living expenses. If you dont think they need to be in jail then they can come live with you.

But it’s time for people to care about our kids, vets etc. The child molestors do not need our help. They need to be in the ground.

And the churches that protect the abusers and those that defend celebrities cause the are celebrities also need to be charged.

Enough is enough.

ima.grandma said...

My life and experiences are forever intermingled and deeply affected by abuse. physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, mental abuse, alcohol abuse, substance abuse, Abuse is Abuse. The damage is the same.

My uncle (My mom's step-brother) was caught molesting my young female cousin. There were two other females and two males as her siblings. I remember my mom and aunt discussing this when I myself was very young. This occurred over fifty years ago. No one thought about the possibility of one of the boys as a target. My aunt guarded the girls after she allowed him back into the home later on. After an eventual divorce many years later, my uncle was caught molesting one of his neighbor's small daughters. He had become the grandpa figure in their home and had been allowed access to her. He was successfully prosecuted and is still in prison for a sentence of thirty years. It turns out when I looked up his prison record, there were two inmates with the same name or so I thought. The second inmate was my cousin who was serving a sentence in the same prison. Father and son together again!

My question is at what age do we stop feeling sorry for the victim when he turns offender?

LC said...

If we are going to talk about patterns of behavior that repeat through generations, we may as well add alcoholism, drug use & even smoking (or other pathologies - - see: Cindy/Casey Anthony) to the mix for an even livelier discussion.
Otherwise, we should try to stick with some Statement Analysis of Both Faye and Stephen Collins.

While I don't doubt these instances of abuse occurred, I am highly suspicious of the soon-to-be ex-wife's motives in questioning, taping, using & releasing the information as well.

ima.grandma said...

I'm sorry, I omitted the fact my cousin was convicted of the same crime as my uncle.

Saint Theresa said...

Anon..peter introduced the case. You didn't. I didn't.

You are looking to find fault in peters example of extreme abuse by the hands of one man that brought devastating destruction into the victims life and the lives of those who love her.
The case could be totally made up for all either of us know.
If my wife went and had sex then I found out, you bet your ass i would have some choice words for her to hear and "slut" would be a tame one. And same goes for if my husband cheated, I would verbally let him know just how slutty and disgusting he was.
I believe you to be a little unstable in the way you think men should act and respond in this case. If you read his post you'd know the husband didn't know his wife was a victim of sexual abuse.

For the third time, you've missed the lesson peter posted and missed my point completely.

Saint Theresa said...

Also, anon...please tell me where I generalized. Because I didn't. So point it out please.

Anon..peter introduced the case. You didn't. I didn't.

You are looking to find fault in peters example of extreme abuse by the hands of one man that brought devastating destruction into the victims life and the lives of those who love her.
The case could be totally made up for all either of us know.
If my wife went and had sex then I found out, you bet your ass i would have some choice words for her to hear and "slut" would be a tame one. And same goes for if my husband cheated, I would verbally let him know just how slutty and disgusting he was.
I believe you to be a little unstable in the way you think men should act and respond in this case. If you read his post you'd know the husband didn't know his wife was a victim of sexual abuse.

For the third time, you've missed the lesson peter posted and missed my point completely.

Saint Theresa said...

Trustmeigetit...I'm glad you and your son made it out of that nightmare and I'm sorry your family is deeply effected by sexual abuse.

I agree with you about the death penalty for these kinds of offenders. I'm not pro dp either, but life sentences or the dp are the only options I can make sense of when I think of sexual predators.
Or chopping off the arms at the shoulder...

john said...

OT Update:

Alleged abuse to be left out of Parsons fraud case

http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/local/searching-for-erica/2014/10/10/alleged-abuse-to-be-left-out-of-parsons-fraud-case/17040635/

Polo said...

Can someone enlighten me on the confidentiality laws between therapist and patient? I am surprised to see a fully publicized transcript of a confidential therapy session.

ima.grandma said...

Good question Polo. I thought the same thing.

Saint Theresa said...

Terrible story. I'm sorry about all that imagrandma.

Good question.

I wonder the same myself, and mentioned the other day about Stephen Collins to my mom just when he speaks out will start the story about how he was abused and sexually abused.

Saint Theresa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint Theresa said...

And anon ...calling your wife a slut once, out of devastation because she cheated is not misogyny.

Saint Theresa said...

I don't care what her motives are. He still committed an atrocious crime against children and admitted to it.

She gave the tapes to LE and they released the tapes from what I understand. So with the tapes being out there her leverage is gone if she was trying to blackmail him.

Kellie said...

"Normally, there is a sacrosanct privilege which protects conversations between therapists and patients, although it is waived if a third party attends. It is unclear if the presence of Collins’s wife constitutes a third party. But it doesn’t matter. It wasn’t the therapist who breached the privilege. It was the actor’s wife. She can do so, even if she was a participant in couples counseling."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/08/stephen-collins-case-secret-recordings-and-law/

Polo said...

Regarding the publicizing of private therapy sessions:

"Another issue that has surfaced in the Collins case is the recording of therapy sessions. In universities that have a hands-on counseling program it is not uncommon for therapy sessions to be recorded. The difference between the Collins case and universities is that the clients at the schools know they are being recorded and that students will observe the session(s). In other words, the recording is for learning purposes and with complete consent from the client.

Let’s get the legality of what Grant allegedly did out of the way. Federal law says that in-person conversations can be recorded if one person in the party has consented to it. This is known as the “one-party consent” law. In this case, Grant is the “one-party” and has consented to recording the conversation.

According to several reports, the therapist was not aware that Grant was recording the session. Confidentiality is the therapist’s responsibility; clients are not required to keep confidentiality.

Therapists in all states are mandated reporters. That means if someone confesses to raping, molesting, or exposing him/herself to a minor child the therapist must report it. How that plays out is up to the therapist, but it still has to be reported."

10/9/14
From an article written by Lillian Davis at the website below:
http://www.modvive.com/2014/10/09/stephen-collins-molestation-scandal-spotlights-larger-hollywood-issues/

Anonymous said...

Sexual abuse of child actresses is very common and sad that it is excused. I wouldn't doubt the wife had knowledge of the abuse long ago and only brought to police and media when she could profit from it. She didn't want her husband to go to jail when she was benefiting from his career.
I cannot imagine that he just brought it up in a counseling session with his wife. She had to suspect or know to get him talking about it.

Anonymous said...

St Theresa, We just disagree. I think it is victim blaming to say that a person would "want" to be called slut by a father or husband because they find this kind of treatment familiar. It is so easy to say that from a clinical standpoint whereby you theorize about a victim's pathology. But have you ever been in a relationship where a person calls you those types of degrading names, where a person justifies by saying "you just want me to abuse you", have you ever gone to bed a night feeling like you just had the mental cr@p beaten out of you by someone who supposedly loves you? I hope you have not! But if you had you would never say anyone would want to be treated that way. Trust me.

ima.grandma said...

http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/08/stephen-collins-oral-sex-child-molestation-daughter-boy-penis/
Snipped:

According to the newest story, Stephen’s wife sent an email that recounted a disturbing comment he made.

She wrote, “The comment you made just before I gave birth to our daughter when you said you hoped we didn’t have a little boy, because ‘you just didn’t know if you could keep his little penis out of your mouth’ was indication enough that you were sick …I should have followed my gut then, and then again 14 years ago, and kicked your ass to the curb.”

Why didn't she get rid of him back then. I wonder how she initially responded to this comment 14 years ago...

Anonymous said...

Also St theresa, You may not realize that every single abuser out there feels they have a damn good reason to call theiir wife a slut, wh@re or c@nt. Every single one of them. And dont think for a minute abusers dont lie about their victims to justify their name-calling. Do you think any one of them will admit "yeah I called her a slut and told her she's a worthless of sh&t but she's actually a very nice person"? Be careful who you believe when you hear about someone calling someone degrading names. Why? Because all of them lie and most of them lie very well.

Anonymous said...

Abuse changes the pathology of the brain. Scientific fact. It changes the way the neurons and synapses work. It changes brain chemistry. You can deny it until the end of time, but it won't change the reality. I was molested as a child and raped as an adult. It changed who I am. Period. Whether or not I want to admit it, I'm not the same person I was. That's not Peter's fault. Throwing a fit and saying he's generalizing doesn't change your reality. If you were abused, you are not the same person you would have been without the abuse.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:49, I am very sorry for the terrible things that were done to you. I am sure that abuse does effect the brain, it certainly effects a person's emotions and how they feel about themselves and other people. I hope you do not think I was trying to minimize the effects of abuse because I feel that abuse is profoundly destructive to an individual. I do feel I was clear in stating what I was speaking out about and that is that I believe an abused person wishes to be loved and respected as much as a non abused person. I think that to think otherwise opens up justifications for abusers to victim blame, and I think that that is potentially a very destructive thing to do. I understand that abuse in childhood changes a person, I am not the person I would have been had I not been abused, however I also recognize the strength of the good qualities in me that were there as part of me that survived and even thrived despite the abuse. When a person is abused, these good qualities do not get nurtured or encouraged and the fact that they survive is stunning. It shows the strength of an individual's human spirit. I hope you recognize that you have many wonderful qualities that survived. It is my opinion that that is your strength. That is the truth of who you are.

Saint Theresa said...

I think if this husband in the case peter brought up was an abuser he would say so.

I'm aware of how misoginist and abusive men act. You're totally off base when it comes to this post.

Anonymous said...

Sexual abusers should be killed.

Trigger said...

Great post, Peter.

I spent most of my adult life in therapy for childhood sexual abuse and neglect.

I covered up my self loathing by over-achieving. I was trying to "fake it till I made it" but it didn't fix me.

Anonymous said...

@st theresa, My point was the guy could have been lying to Peter. He's not going to tell Peter he is an abuser even if he is.