Thursday, February 5, 2015

Brian Williams' Admission: Deception Indicated

                                   Being shot down is not something you or I might forget. 

Brian Williams reported to be on an aircraft under fire, years ago.  He was recently "outed" as lying, by the soldiers on board the attacked aircraft.  In fact:  he arrived an hour after the event. 

This past week, he continued the lie, at a New York Rangers game, but has been forced to make a statement.  

What does his statement show?

Does he "confess", that is, admit what he has done, and admit that it is wrong?
Does he "admit", that is, acknowledge what he has done, but not admit it was wrong?
Or, does he blame someone else?
Is he truthful in his admission?

Is it a "lie" or is it just a "mistake"?

 Here is his written response:  

To Joseph, Lance, Jonathan, Pate, Michael and all those who have posted: You are absolutely right and I was wrong.

In fact, I spent much of the weekend thinking I'd gone crazy.  I feel terrible about making this mistake, especially since I found my OWN WRITING about the incident from back in '08, and I was indeed on the Chinook behind the bird that took the RPG in the tail housing just above the ramp. 

Because I have no desire to fictionalize my experience (we all saw it happened the first time) and no need to dramatize events as they actually happened, I think the constant viewing of the video showing us inspecting the impact area — and the fog of memory over 12 years — made me conflate the two, and I apologize.

I certainly remember the armored mech platoon, meeting Capt. Eric Nye and of course Tim Terpak. Shortly after they arrived, so did the Orange Crush sandstorm, making virtually all outdoor functions impossible. I honestly don't remember which of the three choppers Gen. Downing and I slept in, but we spent two nights on the stowable web bench seats in one of the three birds.

Later in the invasion when Gen. Downing and I reached Baghdad, I remember searching the parade grounds for Tim's Bradley to no avail. My attempt to pay tribute to CSM Terpak was to honor his 23+ years in service to our nation, and it had been 12 years since I saw him. 

The ultimate irony is: In writing up the synopsis of the 2 nights and 3 days I spent with him in the desert, I managed to switch aircraft. Nobody's trying to steal anyone's valor.  Quite the contrary:  I was and remain a civilian journalist covering the stories of those who volunteered for duty.  This was simply an attempt to thank Tim, our military and Veterans everywhere — those who have served while I did not."

Here is the same statement, with emphasis added:

"To Joseph, Lance, Jonathan, Pate, Michael and all those who have posted: You are absolutely right and I was wrong.

Note that others being "right" comes before his being "wrong", which we now look to see if this is a theme in his statement; that is, reducing priority of lying. 

In fact, I spent much of the weekend thinking I'd gone crazy.  I feel terrible about making this mistake, especially since I found my OWN WRITING about the incident from back in '08, and I was indeed on the Chinook behind the bird that took the RPG in the tail housing just above the ramp. 

Note the order:

1.  "I'd gone crazy"
2.  "I feel terrible"
3.  "this mistake"

He then explains that it is "since" he found his OWN WRITING, with the capitalization showing emphasis.  

"about the incident" , which avoids saying what the "incident" was:  
The aircraft under fire, or the lie?

from "back" in 08 may be an attempt to show something so long ago that it is difficult to remember. 
Please note that in life or death situations, the increase in hormones often leaves a powerful imprint meaning:  it is not something someone might forget unless under severe trauma (amnesia) 

He was "in deed" on the Chinook behind" indicates a need to emphasize.  

Because I have no desire to fictionalize my experience (we all saw it happened the first time) and no need to dramatize events as they actually happened, I think the constant viewing of the video showing us inspecting the impact area — and the fog of memory over 12 years — made me conflate the two, and I apologize.

Here he avoids saying that he lied, and he speaks in the present tense.  He does not say "I desired to fictionalize my experience", reaching into the past, but stays in the present.  

The events "made me" conflate the two.  Therefore, it is not his fault.  They, the events, "made him" do it. 

He blames external circumstances.  If one questions whether he is telling the truth or not, he does not make you wait long for the answer:  

certainly remember the armored mech platoon, meeting Capt. Eric Nye and of course Tim Terpak. Shortly after they arrived, so did the Orange Crush sandstorm, making virtually all outdoor functions impossible. I honestly don't remember which of the three choppers Gen. Downing and I slept in, but we spent two nights on the stowable web bench seats in one of the three birds.

In an open statement, one can only tell us what they do remember.  His use of "honestly" shows the recognition of its need:  he has not been honest.  

Later in the invasion when Gen. Downing and I reached Baghdad, I remember searching the parade grounds for Tim's Bradley to no avail. My attempt to pay tribute to CSM Terpak was to honor his 23+ years in service to our nation, and it had been 12 years since I saw him. 

Here he gives another reason for his lie; first, it was the circumstances that made him lie, but here it is his desire to honor military personal by "paying tribute"
Is he really this close to him?  The language betrays him:  

The ultimate irony is: In writing up the synopsis of the 2 nights and 3 days I spent with him in the desert, I managed to switch aircraft. 

The word with between people shows distance.  He does not say "we spent" or even "he and I", but uses "with" which reveals the distance. 

Why did he lie?  He does not cause us to wait: 


Nobody's trying to steal anyone's valor.  

He stole someone's valor.  

Quite the contrary:  I was and remain a civilian journalist covering the stories of those who volunteered for duty.  This was simply an attempt to thank Tim, our military and Veterans everywhere — those who have served while I did not."

It was not a lie in his language, but an "attempt to thank Tim" instead.

Williams not only lied about his experience, but he continues to avoid responsibility for his lie, and not only blame others, but credits his motive as honorable.  

He is a pathological liar.  He is the "rare" liar who can fabricate reality.  As he calls himself a journalist, this, alone, should cause a review of his major cases, to learn where else he has not only been deceptive, but has invented 'reality' in his coverage.   

Here is a short exert from Stars and Stripes. In his video, he not only blamed wanting to "thank" someone, but specifically uses the word "we" regarding the soldiers who were shot down.  Pronouns do not lie.  

"I would not have chosen to make this mistake"  is a long way to avoid saying, "I lied. I lied to make myself the news story."

The "apology" cleverly misleads the reader/listener into empathizing with him, as the "good guy" who was only trying to pay tribute to a hero.  

This indicates an inability to tell the truth, something learned from childhood that those close to him can likely give many examples of.  

In recent years, he told Alec Baldwin he thought he was going to die, yet he does not connect himself, linguistically.  In these places, his deception is more the expected among liars...editing out:

“I guess I do say to myself and to others — ‘I’ve got this’ — and I don’t know where that unbridled confidence comes from,” Williams told Baldwin, trying to describe where he gets his thirst for action and challenge.
And I’ve done some ridiculously stupid things under that banner, like being in a helicopter I had no business being in in Iraq with rounds coming into the airframe,” Williams said.  Note passivity. As early as 2003, he began with vague descriptions, through 2005.  Eventually, the lie became outright.  He used it, as did his network, to increase his own fame and ratings. This in a profession that is founded upon integrity and trust.  He took upon himself a "war hero" status.  In 2013:
In a 2013 clip from the “Late Show from David Letterman,” Williams recounted the fabricated story to the CBS host, in which he claims to have been in the aircraft that came under attack.
“We were in the invasion,” he said, noting it was the 10th anniversary of the incident.
“Two of our four helicopters were hit including the one I was in, RPG and AK-47.”
There is still an element of passivity.  Note the plural "we" he used.  I am continuing to review his statements, as media is pulling out the history of his statements and will update analysis. 

WASHINGTON — NBC Nightly News anchor Brian Williams admitted Wednesday he was not aboard a helicopter hit and forced down by RPG fire during the invasion of Iraq in 2003, a false claim that has been repeated by the network for years.
Williams repeated the claim Friday during NBC’s coverage of a public tribute at a New York Rangers hockey game for a retired soldier that had provided ground security for the grounded helicopters, a game to which Williams accompanied him. In an interview with Stars and Stripes, he said he had misremembered the events and was sorry.
The admission came after crew members on the 159th Aviation Regiment’s Chinook that was hit by two rockets and small arms fire told Stars and Stripes that the NBC anchor was nowhere near that aircraft or two other Chinooks flying in the formation that took fire. Williams arrived in the area about an hour later on another helicopter after the other three had made an emergency landing, the crew members said.

150 comments:

Deejay said...

I have gotten used to this kind of lying- lies told to 'puff' one's self up and to 'explain' how it is not ever your fault. This explanation could have been said/written verbatim by my husband.

My husband lies because he is a compensatory narcissist. There are several reasons- He felt rejected and unvalued as a child. The family proudly talks about who is their favorite child. (not him). His family is all about bragging rights/ family 'stories'/ over-the-top exaggerations. In the stories, one of their family members 'is the best in the world' at something. He thinks he is much smarter than everyone else. He thinks a good story can rewrite the truth. If his actions turn out to have been wrong- he just rewrites history with a lie, where either the wrong never happened or it is someone's fault.

It is sad- being a liar gives you a lonely depressed life. People get tired of dealing with you. since your promises and actions never live up to the over-blown stories. They get sick of how undependable you are. They get sick of being blamed.

SFig said...

Peter, thank you for this analysis. I just saw the news story and immediately came to your page hoping you had analyzed it. I always come to you when I question someone's account. I really enjoy your website and look forward to all that you post. For Deejay, I had an ex-husband who was like that, who changed stories constantly to emphasize him in them and he had a very poor childhood with a true jerk of a dad. It is amazing what parents can do to the mind of their children, which they can't seem to escape as they grow.

Deejay said...

SFig- We have one son who is almost grown. I just hope he is NOT the third generation of liars. (So far, he is a likable and honest kid.) He noticed dad's lies/ bragging stories when he turned about 12, telling me- Mom, dad just has me for 'bragging rights'.

But I don't kid myself, my son will probably be affected, as much as I have tried to help him steer clear. Many of dad's stories are one-upmanship directed AT him- 'I was the best student my high school ever saw' or 'I got a 1580 on the SAT.' My self-absorbed husband even takes all the 'credit' for our son's differences in taste and hobbies- quoting 'He is just trying to differentiate himself from me". He also told him (son) that he had to drop out of a PHD program because of his birth- the crazy blame-game starts at birth! BTW- that story is a lie- dad was trying to get into a PHD program, but was never accepted.

If my son doesn't turn out to be like his dad- he may find himself married to such a person... I don't wish him that misery.

john said...

My opologies for another OT.

LE have been given a bad time recently, with one thing and the other'

One bad apple should not be allowed to taint the whole barrel. Theft should never be condoned (Oxymoron alert) lol. Circumstances and empathy, i believe should always be taken into consideration.

Well played to this Police Officer.

Cop responds to shoplifting report with help, not handcuffs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cop-responds-to-shoplifting-report-with-help-not-handcuffs/

Peter Hyatt said...

Thanks, John.

Professionals in law enforcement are receiving black eyes, left and right, that are undeserved.

I hope to address this in an article. We do not dismiss the criminals and bullies with badges, but we do not lump them in with the professionals.

L/E must return to appropriate hiring practices.

Peter

GetThem said...

Wow, that's crazy! So fascinating!!! Thank you for sharing. Amazing.

TheElderOne said...

Re: "It is amazing what parents can do to the mind of their children."

I know some liars who started their lying ways because confession of a lie ended in physical pain. My friend, for instance, is a compulsive liar. She was belted as a child for 'confessing a lie'. It hurts honesty and trust, it doesn't help.

I like how my other friend encourages truth and honesty in her household to her two school-aged kids. "Anything can happen if you tell the truth." She thanks people for being honest and models it herself. I give this method "two thumbs up" from what I know about human development from infant to adult and human behaviour.

My Sew Imperfect Life said...

Gosh that's sad. I really liked Brian Williams. He's clearly deceptive. But I now notice deception on the part of any "talking heads," including FOX. Those might be interesting to do as well. The most interesting one was Ariana Grande, the pop star who media said denied being a diva/making ridiculous demands/ walking out on reporters in Australia. But if you read her statements, she in fact DOESN'T deny and in fact does exactly what Brian Williams has done here. I'll try to find a link. You have opened my eyes Peter. So many times media claims people have "denied" something when they have not. As you tell us, "listen to what they say, we cannot say something for them." ;-D

Peter Hyatt said...

My Sew,

you saw deception on Fox?

Perhaps you saw the episode on Baby Lisa!

It is everywhere.

It is just that in Williams, we have that sub 10% rare liar. It is bad news.

Peter

Sus said...

This is one of those that I had a difficulty with. I mean he relayed it correctly directly after it occurred. It's taped on the news and talk shows, for crying out loud. I thought maybe he's been in so many war situations that he got it confused, or maybe he is ill with something that fogs his memory. I even looked up if he's the anchor who has cancer...nope, that's Tom Brokaw. I looked for any excuse for his lie.

Then he deceived in his apology. Game over. :-(

Anonymous said...

Peter, did you see President Barak Obama's response to the ISIS burning of a human being?

he said people kill i the name of Christ, too.

Talk about a diversion from the issue! Are you going to analyze it?

Peter Hyatt said...

John: please do not apologize for OT. You are a valued asset to the blog. Peter

Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous, I have heard of the President's remarks. His understanding of history is poor, he played the race card, and yes, it is a diversion from Islamic brutality.

Fox News showed the video.

It was unbearable to watch as the victim did not die immediately.

I don't understand why more women's groups are not more vocal abut the Islamic subjugation of women, particularly in the area of education and careers.

Analysis? It is not necessary. I think most Americans are sick of Sharia Law, womens' rights being denied, and the calling for "diversity" at the cost of safety.

Our betrayal of Israel, comes right from the remarks of the President regarding the Israeli PM, down to our actions, including support for Israel's avowed enemies getting nuclear reactors.

He has done a great deal to harm race relations;
He has portrayed Law Enforcement in consistently negative, racist light, and his administration polices on immigration are all uniformed: throw out the rule of law. No debate. No referendum.

It is becoming more and more difficult to recognize our country.

Peter

john said...

Thanks Peter,

I nearly went to apologise for saying "I apologise for another OT" hahaha :)

Deejay said...

I don't think Williams is quite the Casey Anthony of liars. (percentage-wise)
I believe he is one who morphs truth to be more of a hero and more special. Over time, as he retells the story, it gets further morphed. I have never figured out if these liars actually 'believe' their own stories after telling and retelling the BS or not.
But he is the type liar that has a kernel of truth in each lie- whatever percentage that is.

john said...

Re Obama:

Obama: 'People committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ'

President Barack Obama wants Christians to know Islam is not the only religion that has inspired violence and terror.

"Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," Obama said Wednesday. "And in our home country, slavery, and Jim Crow, all too often was justified in the name of Christ."

Obama made the comments while giving a major speech on religion at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, D.C. Citing Islamic, Jewish, and Christian scripture, Obama touted his own faith.

"This prayer tradition has brought us together, giving us the opportunity to come together in humility before the Almighty and to be reminded of what it is that we share as children of God," he said. "And certainly for me this is always a chance to reflect on my own faith journey. No matter the challenge He has been there for all of us. He certainly strengthened me through the power of his spirit."

Obama went on to condemn violent jihadists who are "betraying" Islam. He specifically called out the Islamic State group that has "carried out unspeakable acts of barbarism" in the Middle East and the militants who recently massacred the employees of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

"This is not unique to one group or one religion," Obama cautioned. "There is a tendency in us, a sinful tendency, that can pervert and distort our faith. And in today's world when hate groups have their own Twitter accounts and bigotry can fester in hidden places in cyberspace, it can be even harder to combat such intolerance. But God compels us to try.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/obama-people-committed-terrible-deeds-in-the-name-of-christ-2015-2?r=US#ixzz3QtjS9ndN

My Sew Imperfect Life said...

Peter, could you explain the "sub 10% rare liar"? Do you mean such an overt liar is rare, like Casey Anthony?

Deejay said...

Recipe to create Brian Williams:
1. The parents lie and blame- nothing is their fault, ever.
2. The child gets old enough to figure it out.
3. But the parents 'stick' to their lies no mater what, even in the face of contrary facts
4. The lies always make the speaker look 'better', even if it makes the 'listener' look bad.
5. Over time, the child develops a 'poor' relationship with the parent- mainly through lost of respect.

It is much like living in the novel '1984' where everyone had to pretend things that weren't true. In the end- they all were driven insane.

Jen Ow said...

I'm in the same boat as Sus! When I first heard this story, I thought Williams was surely mixing up one assignment with another.

But, then I read how he had been repeatedly called out by soldiers who were actually there, and how through the MANY times he told the story to various media outlets over the years, he evolved it into him being at the center of the attack, being guarded until rescue, etc.

In his so-called 'mea culpa', he uses quite a bit of specific military terminology, in an effort to align himself with his audience, and show his knowledge about the situation.

He remembers, and rattles off all these terms, but he doesn't remember his own experience?


john said...

Breaking:

Report: Doctors tell Bobby Brown time to draw life support

Why do i have a feeling there is more to this than meets the eye ?


MYFOXNY.COM/AP -
With nothing more that they can do, doctors at Emory University Hospital in Georgia have reportedly told singer Bobby Brown that it is time to draw life support on his daughter, Bobbi Kristina Brown, reported TMZ.

Read more

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/27993250/whitney-houstons-daughter-found-unresponsive

Jen Ow said...

Agreed John.

Despite repeatedly asking for privacy, and having made no statement about his daughters condition, prognosis, or the circumstances surrounding her being found face down in the tub, her father had his attorney release a statement that Bobby Kristina was NOT married to the man commonly referred to as her husband.

I also caught an important word in one of the statements released by Bobby Brown's attorney. (I believe it was in the article stating she had momentarily opened her eyes.) The attorney stated that Bobby Kristina was surrounded by her IMMEDIATE family members.

I guess 'immediate' was used to exclude her 'not husband'?

Anonymous said...

Regarding lying parents. Is there a point in time (age or maturity level), when this should be pointed out to the child? Or do you just wait for the child to eventually figure it out on their own? It's very hard to "co-parent" as family/divorce court loves to call it, when one parent is a pathologic liar. It's obviously adult business, which kids shouldn't be bothered with, but how long do you let the charade continue?

john said...

Hi Buckley.


Friend Who Found Bobbi Kristina Brown 'Has Cooperated with Authorities'

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/friend-found-bobbi-kristina-brown-cooperated-authorities/story?id=28729590


Circumstances around Bobbi Kristina's hospitalisation under investigation

http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/165094/Bobbi-Kristina-Brown-found-in-bathtub-police-investigating-another-witness


Bobbi Kristina Police Investigation: Did Eyewitness Flee Bathtub Scene?

http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/02/04/bobbi-kristina-eyewitness-police-investigation-bobby-brown/

john said...

Bobbi Kristina Brown Was Found Face-Down in Tub by Friend: Attorney

"Face down" ??

http://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/bobbi-kristina-brown-was-found-face-down-tub-friend-attorney-n300621

GeekRad said...

Ok, accuse me of sticking my head in the sand AND ignoring all the basics of SA I have learned and practice. But consider this defense of Brian Williams (link provided below). I have a couple of false memories. They are memories of situations as a child. One of them is swimming back and forth from the dock to a floating dock with my sister and friends. The memory I have is so real I have trouble envisioning what must have been the reality. I see a water snake swimming right in front of me before I reach the dock and everyone yelling at me to stop swimming. Everyone else who was there recalls the snake, but not it being right in front of me and not anyone yelling at me. Completely false memory.

I agree, Brian did not give a reliable denial. He knows the story is not true and is sensitive to it. But we don't know what may have been his false memory that he later, after being questioned, reassessed. Being a manager and officer of my firm I sometimes have to give the party line and it sometimes involves leaving out information or softening a blow. And it can sound disturbingly like Brian Williams, and every politician, CEO, HR manager, etc. out there.
So I would like to cut him a break and move on. I happen to like his broadcasts.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/05/opinion/vox-brian-williams/index.html

Deejay said...

Re: A lying parent.
My son started to verbalize frustration at the frequent 'dad lies' around age 14ish. I mean, at that point any kid sees what happens first and then notices the story doesn't match.

As the mom, I was torn- do I 'undermine' the relationship with his dad??? What do I do?? My bottom line, though, was that MY own relationship with my son would be truthful, as was mine with my childhood family.

I have decided to validate my son's observance of the lies privately, when he brings it up- so that he is not driven insane. I then mention that he can choose his own adult behaviors and is not doomed to copy a habit he does not like.

It is his only dad- warts and all. I hope they have a good adult relationship- And if some future visit isn't going well- Then "OH my- just look at the time. See you dad".

Ask me in a few years- I am praying my son comes through this OK and breaks the generational 'lying' chain..... time will tell.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Deejay. I don't want to cause problems with my son and my relationship by talking negatively of his father. I figure, he'll either figure it out himself, or he'll eventually bring the subject up. He's a teen now, but hasn't seemed to notice, or he just doesn't bring it up. The reason why it bothers me so much though, is because he lies abput not being able to take him on weekends, lies about work, money, child support, etc. I know deep down these are not things to trouble my son about. It gets harder as time goes on though.

Unknown said...

I tried to find an email, but could not. Peter would you please reply.

I have a serious question.

"Did you cheat on me?"

My wife has asked me that several times.  She had major trust issues,  and this caused me to use emphasis,  IN THE EXTREME, to convey my innocence.

I have been reading your site,  and am grasping the very basics,  but have two scenarios.... Very real,  and very common scenarios that will completely undo the very notion that statement analysis is scientific and completely repeatable.

Now... Did you see what i did in that statement above?  I used many qualifiers and much emphasis.
I switched from past to present tense. I dropped a pronoun,  and i used "but"

But everything i said was 100% true,  and is completely how i talk and express myself.

So now I'm going to give you some quick background info,  and I'm going to leave some out. This is to see if you heard my statement,  would you condemn me,  or pick up on CRITICAL information about me,  my personality,  and my mentality.

I do not have any mental conditions.  I have a high IQ.  I am as mentally sound as any healthy person.

I am in door to door sales,  and have been for over 15 years.  This has given me a great advantage in learning the power of communication.  I am quite good at sales,  and while majority of good communication in sales stems from body language and gestures,  there MUST be wonderful verbal communication to actually "close" someone,  and get a sale.  Especially in less than 30 seconds,  which is about how much time you need in door sales.

I have learned that the general public responds to emphasis.  People don't want a deal.  They want "a good deal" Even jurors and parole boards don't want to hear " I am sorry" or "I have remorse"

They want to hear "I am so so SOOOOOO very,  completely and utterly sorry.  I cannot undo what happened,  but would in a heartbeat just to..." you get the idea.

So,  due to this realization,  many years ago,  coupled with my desire and need to get as many sales as possible,  i slowly incorporated these words into my "every day" speak.

It's a part of the way i communicate now.  Further more,  my wife simply could not believe a simple statement like  "no.  I did not cheat on you"

Not until i pour on so much extra emphasis would she finally be content.

I did not cheat on my wife,  at any time. I have not cheated on my wife,  at any time. 
My definition of cheating is any situation with another person that my wife would be hurt and/or upset about, due to intimacy,  deceit, attraction or emotion.

So,  if you were flipping through channels,  and you happened to catch me making this statement,  would you condemn me?

"I have never, in any way,  at any time,  placed my hands on,  nor  kissed,  nor been sexual or intimate, nor even been in a private setting, clothed or in any state of undress with anybody other than my wife"

I will admit that pronouns are pretty universal,  and regardless of personal speech habits,  if English is the language spoken, it will be nearly impossible to accidentally switch or drop pronouns  when telling the truth about a specific situation.

Unknown said...



Many teenage girls use present tense nearly 100% of the time.  "...and I'm all like what? Are you serious? And she's all i know,  right?"

What happens in this situation?

Admittedly,  this is not a serious statement such as if the girl was in an interview or a court hearing. But certainly you cannot declare deception with every teenage girl because shes in story mode?

So,  when someone,  such as a teenager,  or a sales person who has incorporated parts of deceptive speech into their everyday life,  how can a statement analyst hope to ensure avoiding a false deception conclusion?  Especially when it is the difference between freedom and life in prison?

Would you need a specific question asked,  so they can be set up to answer with either a reliable denial, or complete nonsense?

"in your own words,  did you kill your wife?" or "what do you want to say to anyone that thinks you killed your wife?"

I already know,  i would slather so much emphasis on my statement it would make a statement analysts head explode as his eyes melted.  But this would be my way of addressing the incident and ensuring everyone understood my commitment to my statement,  and my COMPLETE AND TOTAL innocence.

Admittedly,  at some point in a statement,  i would probably make a reliable denial... Probably when i was sick of being asked and did not want to spend the energy to create a long, overly emphatic denial.  But the scary thing is i might not.  I tend to drop "do not" and "don't" for more emphatic words.  "have not ever,  in any way, harmed my wife,  nor have i done anything that would even be slightly construed, mistaken or questioned as an action that would hurt her, physically or emotionally."

What if i was having an affair?  And while i was with my mistress my wife was abducted?  What if my mistress was the governor,  so i absolutely cannot admit "my alibi is that i was out plowing the governor wife.  Think i will still get a fair trial? "

This would make my statement something like "i did not kill my wife. Where was i at 3pm?  Um... I went.. Well i left,  OK OK OK,  i left,  and after that,  i um.  It's hard to.. Um.  I so I'm driving, there was a lot of stars out that night after i got home... i remember that for sure, Um OK. Then i came home. I entered the house. I yelled 'honey, im home!' i did not get a response. I searched the bedroom, and the bathroom. I looked in the back yard. I realized that she was missing." you get my drift.



How do you ensure you do not send me to prison?  I may be a scum bag cheater,  but i am not a murderer. I may be lying my ass off, to hide the fact i was plowing the governors wife, but this would be because i would have a genuine fear that if it got out, i would be prosecuted by corrupt cops looking for brownie points from the governor, anyway. Certainly, if it started to look like i may actually be suspected i would have to fess up. Especially if the only reason i was suspected was because my alibi was weak, or my statement showed deceit.

Now,  there is a CRITICAL piece of information i have left out, about myself.  I will await your response before spilling the beans.

I told the truth in this email. So if you, at the request of my wife,  analyzed my cheating statement and concluded deceit was indicated,  you would be ending my marriage of 13 years.

How do you prevent this?


Anonymous said...

I don't think your marriage relies upon, or should rely upon, someone else, other than you and your spouse. Maybe marriage counseling would be a good option? I asked a somewhat similar question here, not too long ago, but it wasn't about my spouse. My mother is the type of person to not believe a word that anyone says. It's very difficult growing up this way, and is still difficult now, just easier to ignore, and understand that no answer will ever suffice. If this was a spouse I was dealing with, I think counseling would be in definite need. Anyway, I wonder if you would answer simply to someone else, other than your wife?

Anyway, my question which is somewhat along your line of questioning is... In school, we're taught to put emphasis on our words, sentences, paragraphs, stories, essays, etc. If it's not a long, entertaining, sentence or essay or whatever, it would earn a lower grade. I feel like these teachings are instilled upon us, especially in the writing aspect. I feel like some people are simply more descriptive than others. Plus, I feel like if someone is asked the same question over and over (say in like multiple interviews, tv appearances, or media questioning), that even if the original answer starts out simple with no qualifiers, it gradually acquires more qualifiers as the person goes. I think, even if subconsciously, your mind starts to say, what the heck I'm telling the truth and so-and-so doesn't seem to believe me, I guess I need to emphasize my answers.

I wonder if any regulars have any thoughts on these questions?

Unknown said...

I understand your point on my wife. You are completely right, however, in this instance, i would like to know if SA would see the oddities in my speech patterns, or incorrectly pile on. What if i have a heart murmur, which renders lie detector tests inconclusive. A polygraph tester that is not world class might misread a murmur as a complete failure. These two COMPLETELY INACCURATE things would sound pretty suspicious...

Anons question was going to be my next question. As a person spends more time in the spotlight, being accused obey and over, even as he swore he was innocent, he was being called a liar.

So he would feel like he really needed to convince everyone of his innocence.

What if he also had the type of personality that he needs to fail accepted? So he keeps stepping into the spotlight, and attempting to convince of his innocence.

Certainly you will suggest, at least once, he would give at least one reliable denial, but if he denied it so many times, he might believe the only way to express his innocence is with more and more emphasis, and more and more weakeners, believing he was strengthening his innocence.

Unknown said...

Deejay

I should not interject into your parenting business, but since you posted it...

i strongly recommend you DO NOT do this. This will completely damage the father/son dynamic.
Plus it teaches your son to avoid confrontation, especially when he should always feel safe going to his parents.

I speak from experience. This completely ruined my childhood. I ran away at 15 and never went back. I am 35 now.
do not undermine his father, instead when he comes to you, take him by the hand, walk him to his father and discuss his feelings.

If the father is lying due to an addiction or something, he probably believes nobody is noticing. Having his son rattle his world that nothing he says is believed and he's actually causing his son to remove from him, this will hopefully help Him see what is important.

You should not pretend your son is dumb and ignore what he notices, but you should not confirm it either. Instead, make sure to tell him that he is still his father. His father loves him, and no matter what he is going through, he will always choose his son over whatever is TEMPORARILY stealing him.

Reinforce the love, demand the son respect him, even if he does not believe him, because his father would love and defend him, even if he was a liar, or an addict, or a murderer. His dad would still be there, with love, and without judgement

Unknown said...

If you are no longer married, then simply talk to your son about his feelings when HE FEELS lies from his father. Do not discuss the lies. Instead reinforce his feelings, but express that his father's lies and truths, and life is not your business anymore.

Then set up a time to have a tiny intervention with son and father. If father will not accept, and defensivly insists he is not lying, you should sit down with him first, and explain he is losing his son.

If still it doesn't sink in, if this is due to a drug addiction, sadly you must get your son out. This is a deadly situation and usually won't sink in until a court orders supervised visits and weekly drug tests...

Kellie said...

"...a false claim that has been repeated by the network for years."

Wow. Way to divert attention away from calling Brian Williams a liar. lol

tania cadogan said...

regarding the anon and his wife.
In your case we would interview you on non sensitive stuff, to learn what is normal for you in regards to use of pronouns, tenses, language used.
This would enable us to see your base line, to learn what is in your personal dictionary, to learn what is your norm, how you speak freely using the process of free editing
As it would be on non sensitive subjects there should be no reason for any sensitivities to show up.

You would then be interviewed regarding the sensitive subjects and any change in language used, pronouns and tenses would be noted and inquired upon further to see if the change in language etc is warranted and where, if any, sensitivity is revealed.

Sus said...

Unknown,
I hope you don't mind if I point out a few things.

You say you are beginning to grasp some concepts, beginning being the key word. You actually did make several reliable denials in your posts without realizing it. You ended with, "I told the truth in this email." That is considered reliable in SA.

Which brings up the fact that SA finds INTENTIONAL deceit and/or sensitivity to the subject...just as a polygraph does. Only your definition of cheating is going to be "caught."

You do give your definition of cheating. I wonder at your wife's definition of cheating. Are you defining that as hers, also? You already defined her as having "trust issues", or she HAD trust issues. My take is there are two people in a marriage and in yours I'm hearing one person define the concepts and issues.

I'm no marriage counselor. I'm not even a good statement analyst, but I think you ought talk to your wife openly about each of your definitions of cheating. After all, by your own admission, she lives with someone who uses deceptive language everyday to "close someone." Just a guess, but I bet she doesn't want closed.

tania cadogan said...

Anon remember Never is only applicable if the question is have you ever, otherwise it is unreliable.

You give us your definition of cheating but do not give your wife's definition.

You also add the qualifiers "at any times" which would tend to weaken the denial.
You use the phrase "at any time" which indicates sensitivity.
You say she HAD trust issue,not HAS.
Does she no longer have trust issues?
If she doesn't why then the need to, as you say, add extra emphasis which would weaken said denial?
What are the trust issues she had?
Do they relate to you?

You tell us you would use so much emphasis , a statement analysts's head would explode and his eyes would melt, then go on to admit you would probably make a reliable denial.
You use the qualifier probably which weakens the statement.
You admit then that you wouln't be making a reliable denial with all the emphasis and that you wouldn't make a reliable denial, only that you probably would.

I do not have any mental conditions. I have a high IQ. I am as mentally sound as any healthy person.
You start of by telling us what you don't have, anything in the negative is sensitive so why start with what you don;t have?
Have you been accused of having a mental condition
You proceed to tell us you have a high iq.
Is this relevant?
Does having a high iq preclude you from being deceptive? from perhaps being unfaithful?
You end with telling us you as mentally sound as a healthy person.
Sick or infirm people can also be mentally sound.
the infirmity is with their body not their mind.

Are you seeking to have yourself declared as truthful and will use this s evidence for your wife?

The only way this would work is if you were interviewed by a statement analyst and answered the questions truthfully.
I told the truth in this email. So if you, at the request of my wife, analyzed my cheating statement and concluded deceit was indicated, you would be ending my marriage of 13 years.

Oh dear.
Embedded in your statement is my cheating statement
Why did you say this and not the expected my statement?

This reminded me of a case where the subject who denied commiting the crime used the phrase My victim when he was defending himself

tania cadogan said...

Is misremembered the new buzzword for outright lying?

Misremembered would be perhaps getting the time wrong or the day wrong for an experienced event.
It would mean getting someones name wrong or the order of an experienced event.

What it doesn't mean is fabricating something that didn't happen (fabricating a reality) or placing oneself at the centre of an event that did happen but in which you were not physically involved

If you were shot down by enemy fire you would remember it since it would stand out.
If you witnessed an event you may place yourself at the event such as location and day, you would not claim you were the actual victim.

it is not a mistake, it is a deliberate lie.
Using the excuse fog of memory doesn't pass the smell test.
The stress of where he was doing what he was would have been clearly imprinted in his mind. It was 12 years ago not 50.

S + K Mum said...

Lol, misremembered - minimising word for lied!

S + K Mum said...

With regards to Anons post about cheating....
In my mind a salesman has a very short time to make a sale and convince someone to buy a product........possibly over-egging the pudding as you try to convince the customer why they need a particular product etc.when possibly they don't need it and this may be at the back of your mind 'customer maybe doesn't beleive me, I need to convince them' Maybe a salesman is lying and has a need to convince, hence the emphasis.
I don't know where this leaves a salesman (or salesperson) in their day to day language in a home environment.
Do others agree that extra emphasis is always used on your home environment?

Unknown said...

Tania ty for the reply.

I actually was speaking honestly when i gave the reliable denials. The point was so no analyst here would assume i was trying to Clinton it with varying possible definitions.

In fact, there is nothing my wife would consider cheating or be upset with if it suddenly became known to her.

I am being completely honest. so please, for the sake of this exercise, assume i have given every single possible reliable denial, and have proven, to an analyst, that i am completely honest And did not cheat. In any definition

I think what i am getting is, for the sake of this website, if i naturally use emphasis to describe truthful denials, i may be flagged as deceitful, but in an investigation, i would be interviewed and would then expose the fact that i use weak denials when i am actually being truthful. Right?

Unknown said...

S & K
Yes it is the only way i feel i can make a statement that accurately expresses and shows what i am feeling.

For instance, when i say "literally", it is because i need the person i am saying it to, to understand, the next part is COMPLETELY LITERAL.

see what i did? I had to not only add completely, not to my subject, but to you, so you would understand , but i also had to capitalize, just to further hammer it home how powerful qualifiers are to me.

Buckley said...

But everything i said was 100% true, and is completely how i talk and express myself. Why all of a sudden did you stop capitalizing your "I"s? Just curious.

Even jurors and parole boards don't want to hear " I am sorry" or "I have remorse"

They want to hear "I am so so SOOOOOO very, completely and utterly sorry. I cannot undo what happened, but would in a heartbeat just to..." you get the idea.


That sounds phony to me; I'd prefer sincere.

Also, as a former high school teacher I think you are exaggerating that "many" teenage girls use present tense "100%" of the time.

You are giving us a bunch if hypotheticals to disprove the "science" of SA. I have my own misgivings about some if the reliability of well rounded stats we're given. But we are told it's clay, not iron.

Here's the question I really want to ask if you could help me understand:

Why does your wife have "trust issues"?

S + K Mum said...

I picked up on the word 'plowing'
I wonder how you would answer that? You described your definition of cheating but didn't include that word...further down you used that word to describe having an affair...
Also, i'm curious about 'had trust issues' 'never cheated on my wife' - is she accusing you of cheating BEFORE you were married?
(no accusations btw - just curiousity).

Buckley said...

Remember, we are told modifiers make the language sensitive for further exploration, not that the modifiers immediately indicate deceit.

Unknown said...

Just to clarify, we have worked the trust issues out and are happily married.

The information i was hiding, is that was justified in her trust issues.

I have not cheated on her. But i had an addiction to pain pills. My dr prescribed some extremely powerful drugs, without explaining the danger of taking them every day.
By the time i completed the supply, i got violently ill, but did not know why. I realized that everytime i got a refill, i stopped feeling sick. But when i ran out, i was ill again. I was withdrawing, and did not know. I have not tried any other drug. I just did not know. By the time i learned, it was too late.

I started lying to my wife. Constantly. I only lied about pills and my pill addiction. But this addiction was all consuming, so i lied all the time. The drug and addiction had rewired my brain. The brain will convince itself that love and support will result in sobriety, so it must protect itself, especially from withdrawal. It l the brain uses this logic to justify lying. An addict will lie and slowly, but inevitably alienate himself Or herself. Every single time.

So i lied. I am not minimizing nor justifying. No need to scold me. It is impossible to make an addict feel any worse than they have already made their self feel. I have fixed my life and repaired my marriage and her trust in me, and remained clean since 2013.

But due to that awful time, i developed this narcissistic need to be believed. Even When.. No especially when lying.
It has leaked into my personality, and while i did learn to use emphasis in my sales regularly, it wasn't until becoming a scum bag addict and probably a pathological liar, that i simply could not handle the thought of being misunderstood

I don't really care if I'm not believed these days, as i no longer have a selfish need to lie, but when i am presented with a situation where i need to express myself energetically or enthusiastically, i automatically string emphasis onto a truthful statement.

I actually believed, until i found SA that the proper way to tell the truth is stay away from simple statements. So before sa, i would have believed i was expressing my honestly better by using fourteen qualifiers.

What if this is whathappened to Scott Peterson, or D or Anthony? Clearly they are pathological liars. They are quite capable of issuing a false reliable denial, by simply avoiding free editing when they issue the denial.
every poster on this site, if they committed a crime, they would be practicing their reliable denial all the way to the interrogation room. Every single one of us would initiate it with "i did not do xxxxx" and if they followed up with "why should i believe you? " would spit that "because i told the truth"so fast their head would spin.

Sure, if we slip back in to free editing, we might slip up. But maybe those people i listed just damaged their ability to sound like everyone else when telling the truth, simply because they spent so much time lying and trying to find what gets the belief they need?

Dunn is av drug addict, so she lied all the time about this. Scott had his affairs so he lied all the time about that. I would bet anything Anthony was a prescription popper, but certainly she was lied constantly about something...

Thoughts?

Unknown said...

Woops, i replied to myself i think. Sorry

Anonymous said...

I doubt this type of lying is ALL THAT rare, Peter. It is seen often among the liberal arts,e.g., Pete Townsend and child abuse, the sports guy that wrote a book about being in prison and took others pain as his own, the woman who claimed she was a victim of human trafficking so she could start a fake charity, the lesbian in Nebraska, the college professor who wanted to be persecuted for being a Jew, and on and on.

If you have a broken leg, odds are someone with a hangnail will show up and scream louder...all for the hawking of trinkets.

Unknown said...

To answer the cheating question, no. I have not cheated on my wife. She was just confused on what i was being a sneaky scum bag about.

I can confirm that statement analysis works, because i found total comfort that i was not lying to her, because i was not cheating on her. She mistook my late nights for girl chasing, when i was waiting on my dealer.
So when i was asked if i met a girl, or anything similar, i was honestly searching for a truthful statement that eased her pain.
I was being deceptive as hell, but did not lie. And i can remember my conscious rationalising. I can actually remember a conscious thought of "awesome. She asked if i was with a girl. I don't have to lie" but she still did not believe me.
So i continued to look for statements that were true. And they got longer, and more descriptive and eventually, when I put an over abundance of emphasis while expressing extreme enthusiasm for the statement, nearly every person believed it.



Don't misunderstand, as an addict, when she figured it out, i

S + K Mum said...

You needed to convine you were telling the truth because you were lying or hiding something from your wife - she thought you were having affair. Presumably when she found out the truth all was well. I wish you well :-)
So SA would pick up on sensitivity in your statements, would you agree?

Buckley said...

So she wondered what you were doing in your secret life, when she asked if you were cheating, you could say no, but omit details about what was really going on, and feel you weren't lying to her?

Unknown said...

As an addict, had she asked me if i had taken pills i would have lied, but luckily that only happened right at the end. Rock bottom, so to speak.
prior to becoming an addict, i actually had great pride in the fact that i did not lie and i did not exaggerate. If i told a story, one could bet money that every detail was exactly as it happened.
And when i was the addict lying loser, i still had extreme internal turmoil when lying, and would only lie regarding my addiction.
Now that i am clean, i do not lie. I do not exaggerate. Of course, you won't believe me, and now i would be unable to simply walk away and say that's cool. I would need you to believe me, if it was true. If I was lying about an addiction, i could happily walk away, so long as i was going to get my fix. But if you suggested i cheated on my wife, because my statement hints that i was attempting to deceive with different definitions of cheating or something similar, i would be unable to not prove i was telling the truth.

It's... Not a fun mentality...

Buckley said...

I want to make my point more clearly: You knew what information she wanted and you withheld it. You may not have been plowing the governor's wife but you were lying to yours.

S + K Mum said...

I understand. I thought perhaps there was a history of not being believed therefore having the need to be believed and the need to convince.
P.S. By no means am I good at SA, still learning! Tried only to figure out why so much was sensitive and now I know lol.

Unknown said...

No. I was minimizing and justifying, and as addict, i was able to be deceptive. You will never know the shame i feel for lying to her. She is my high school sweetheart. I never made a decision to go get drugs and get addicted. I was prescribed pain pills and had not tried any drug before that day. Not weed, not cigarettes, not cocaine, not...anything.
I just followed the directions and when they were gone, i had no intention of getting more. I did not plan to keep taking pills. I became sick with withdrawal, without knowing withdrawal was possible. I went back to the dr, and instantly felt better. eventually my wife asked what i did for lunch. I went to the dr seemed wrong to say. I knew it was perfectly fine to tell her, but the addict took over. And i said i had gone to burger king. Then another lie about the dr copay , then another lie about my weird behavior then another about my sleep behavior and before i could see what i was becoming i had already became it

now, i insist on my wife reading text messages or calling my friends to verify my actions. Not because now she is controlling. No. Because she trusted me and ib took advantage of that if she gets suspicious now, that is my fault, and i want to make her feel better. I want her to see that her husband is back, so anything she needs to get her confidence back.

Unknown said...

I agree. I betrayed my wife. I did not intend to deceive her. I would start many days with a promise that day would be the day i stopped, or the day i told her everything. But... I can't explain it. Because only an addict can understand it.
The person i was before was... Under...the addict. Very rarely could i over take the addict and have a lucid thought about what i had become. The addicted brain MUST prevent clear thought. The addicted brain must prevent love and understand. These are tools that help the person beat the addiction. So the addiction creates depression, anxiety, shame. Etc...tools to isolation. Isolation means it's just the addict, and myself. The weaker version that is crippled from depression, shame etc.

It's a deadly situation, and it is not possible to simply stop, or make better decisions. This is why you can't help an addict that does not want help. The addict is controlling the brain, and making decisions that ensure the addiction lives on. It's Painful.

Your contempt will not even scratch the surface of my guilt and shame. Only addicts understand the all encompassing guilt and shame that fills every part of the withered soul the addict drags around in pain

Unknown said...

I figured it would not be hard to figure out, but i was curious if this behavioral trait is not picked up in statements, could we have falsely accused Dunn, or Petersen or Anthony. By Peters own words he concluded all 3 were habitual or pathological liars. They did not become these things when they were charged with murder. They had been practicing these skills for years and years.
Well now that my mind is back and head is clear , i have the same speech patterns of the addict that lied every time it opened my mouth. .btw, I'm purposely distancing in an attempt to be funny.

So what if Dunn really is innocent? What if she is truly just naive And immature.
What if Scott did it when David was locked out, and never told billie? And only later realized that hailey may have been dead in the room, as she did not move while sleeping. So she starts bashing SA, And billie just happens to be a scum bag addict pathological liar, who has retrained herself to use speech with more emphasis? She thinks it helps. Statement analysis calls it weakening. She is now narcissism defined, but that does not make her a murderer.
It makes her need to get front and center again.

TheElderOne said...

Hey Unknown,
Kudos to you for 1) admitting you have a problem and 2) taking responsibility for it and 3) making the attempt to make things better for you and your wife.

I have respect for anyone capable of the above. Admitting you made mistakes and taking personal responsibility for their wrong-doings is much better than passing the buck or ignoring them. Worse yet is when they hide it, the asshats.

S + K Mum said...

Hmmm no I think Dunn knows, reading all the analysis it showed from day 1 she was deceptive...the first things she did was try to build an alibi and portray herself as a good mother - she needed to convince. Indeed she may just be a terrible mother.
A parent of a missing child surely puts the missing child first....taking whatever is fired at them and tell the truth, she leaked a lot of information.....picked up by by Peter and other posters here. She knew Hailey was dead not missing - she spoke about her in the past tense - this was flagged as unexpected and so on. Unexpected does not equal guilt - it is what it is 'unexpected' and so is flagged as such.
If she knows whodunnit or whatever and she had no part why would she need to convince and deceive? Hope that makes sense!

john said...

OT Update:

Family offers reward for info leading to arrest, conviction of Dylan Redwine's killer
Still no suspect in Dylan Redwine death


http://www.koat.com/news/family-offers-reward-for-info-leading-to-arrest-conviction-of-dylan-redwines-killer/31121802

Anonymous said...

Unknown,

You're lying. From your writing, I can tell pain pills were not the only drug you took. You are also lying about cheating on your wife.
If you're truly a recovered addict you shouldnt be making statements about how noone can hurt an addict more than they hurt themselves. Because drug addicts actually hurt their families greatly and they have no choice in the matter whereas you do and did because you are the one taking the drugs. You betrayed your wife, and sorry, but you are minimizing because one prescription for pain pills (the 1st one) coming to an end does not make you "violently sick". I grew up with severe abuse and I became an alcoholic at age 16. I did not go to AA. I just told myself "You are the one putting the booze in yourself. You. Noone else. You are the only one who can stop it." I have been sober for 15 yrs. I do not brag about, nor do I normally tell people about it. I do have compassion for alcoholics though and do not judge them and will try to help them, knowing though that battle between them and the booze and they are the only ones who defeat booze.
You are not being truthful though. You are lying about having done other drugs and you are lying about not cheating on your wife. The reason you concentrate on how to speak so you will be believed is not because your wife didnt believe you for so long when you were lying to her about pain pills. It's because you are still lying to her.
If you want to get off drugs completely, stop making any excuses and stop lying. You're not going to "outsmart" drugs. Drugs will take everything you have. But you are the one responsible. Not the drugs. Because you are the one doing them.

Anonymous said...

Unknown,
And you wrote that "only another addict can understand. I was an addict, bad, I would have died from booze if I hadnt stopped, and I dont believe you on 4
counts
1) You're not off drugs.
2). You were cheating on your wife.
3). Drugs dont "make" you lie. You chose to lie.
4) You did other drugs besides pain pills.

tania cadogan said...

Anon. i am glad you have both worked out the issues.

A good statement analyst will ask non sensitive questions and learn what is your normal.

In your case the overemphasising would have shown up and would have been consistent.
What would then have been looked for was if and when it changed, when your normal, your expected response changed.

if for example you over emphasised a denial about infidelity but then pared your response right back ie no over emphasis in relation to an addiction, the analyst would note the change and then ask questions relating to the change. It may be nothing, it may be in relation to something in the past, it might be something current.
the right questions would reveal the truth.

In every case, the subject wants to be truthful because it relieves the stress caused by deception.
They may not want to tell the truth for fear of the consequences, the brain however will seek to tell the truth despite the subject's intent to relieve the stress and so we have leakage, little nuggets of truth that sneak out like a marble.
Given enough time the subject will reveal the truth either willingly via a confession or via leakage.

it is well known that the moment a subject confesses, they feel instant relief and admit to said feeling.

Good luck

They may not

Anonymous said...

This guy is looking for tips on how to lie to his wife more effectively and to make himself feel better about the truthful statements he does make that arent believed by her because he's lying about a bunch of stuff and feels that when she doesnt believe the honest statements that justifies him saying she has "trust issues" while conveniently he ignores all the lies he is still telling her.

Anonymous said...

Unknown wrote

"My definition of cheating is any situation with another person that my wife would be hurt and/or upset about, due to intimacy, deceit, attraction or emotion."

This is a convuluted statement.

It does not support a reliable denial either. It skirts around what cheating actually is, and you could certainly have cheated if this is your definition.

1). "Any situation wife would be hurt/upset about"

You could easily get around this qualifier by telling yourself "What she doesnt know won't hurt her"
2) due to "intimacy"
Casual sex is not "intimate"

3) "deceit"
If she doesnt suspect you wont have to lie

4). "attraction"
Many men say they werent even "attracted" to the woman they cheated with. Tori Spelling's husband told her he was not at all attracted to the woman he cheated with. He said "she was just a warm body"

5). Casual sex can easily, and actually, typically does not involve emotion.

Anonymous said...

Unknown wrote

"My definition of cheating is any situation with another person....."

Your statements also reveal you have cheated with your same gender.

Very unusual for a man to say "person" in this conrext rather than "woman".

Anonymous said...

Unknown wrote

" I can actually remember a conscious thought of "awesome. She asked if i was with a girl. I don't have to lie" but she still did not believe me. "

I hope you're using protection while you're sleeping with men behind your wife's back. Cause statement analysis is going to help you or her if you give her AIDS.

KatONine said...

If he's looking at ways to lie more effectively, he's come to the wrong place. People here think that SA is the golden rule of all liars - it's not, it's really not. Perhaps it can be used to catch bad liars in their tracks. Not good liars and definitely not great liars.

The entire theory is based on "someone's inner guilt distorting their language". Similar to how the "anxiety of guilt is physical and can be measured by a lie detector test". Both of these methods stand to ignore a simple fact: not all liars feel guilt about what they do. So, how does SA and lie detecting work for someone who has no guilt? I've always wondered how it could possibly be used against someone like that. I'd like an answer to that one day too. -crickets-

As for cheating, I'd say that if you want to screw other women, be honest and open about it. She doesn't own you - owning another is called 'slavery', not 'matrimony'. You own you. And frankly, the healthiest relationship between a married couple I've witnessed are "poly" in nature - this means that they love many people and have sex with them on occasion -GASP-. Truth reigns in that household. There are no lies, no hiding, no closed minds. A nice reprieve from a world of divorces and domestic bullshit, IMO.

Anonymous said...

Katonline,

SA does work on psychopaths (those who feel no guilt). They respond in the same way non-psychopaths do. See Scott Peterson's interview with Diane Sawyer for a more in-depth understanding of how SA can be used on psychopaths.

The guy questioning above does not want to sleep with other women. He wants to, and has, slept with other men (this is what his language reveals) and he is putting his wife at great risk, and it's not OK.

Anonymous said...

SA is not so much about guilty feelings. It is more a study on how people con others using language.

Peter Hyatt said...

Sew,

most deception (90% plus) is via withholding information rather than fabrication of reality.

It is just percentages.

I happen to cover a number of these cases on the blog, and even here, most deception is via withholding info, but there are those who use direct lying sentences.

Even within Brian Williams' deception, we find that the truth is missing, rather than outright lie.

Peter

Anonymous said...

I agree! Well stated!

Anonymous said...

I don't know if Unknown is still lying and looking fir further ways to lie. Anon above, does point out some interesting things that s/he noticed.

If Unknown is being genuine, than I'm glad he's taken responsibility for a lot of his actions. I have a good understanding of the addictive mind, so I don't automatically condemn anyone for being an addict. I do think it's wonderful when something changes for them, and they're able to overcome the addiction. It DOES horribly affect family and loved ones though, for a long time, if not forever. Unknown needs to know and understand that, and one thing he's downplaying is his wifes "trust issues". Sorry, Unknown, but it appears that you created those issues due to your addiction. Please don't brush that off as an issue with your wife. While in your addicted state of mind, you/your addiction caused that. Her "issues" are valid. Even though you may not have been in your right state of mind, you still need to own that -own the issues that you've caused other people. It's great if you've worked out the major issues, but you have to know and understand the long term affects it can have on others.

And, to Anon above, I appreciate the things you've pointed out in Unknowns statements. One thing I definitely don't totally agree on is that one round of prescriptions, or one injury or surgery, or whatever caused the initial prescription doesn't cause addiction. It definitely can. That's one reason why most doctors now prescribe the bare minimum and generally don't like to re-prescribe. If someone is prone to addiction, it can take very little to trigger it. I appreciate the things you've pointed out, and I praise your success with overcoming addiction. Not everyone is the same though.

Anonymous said...

Why would those people bother getting married? Marriage should not be tainted or taken lightly. That "healthy" relationship will end in disaster. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but jealousy and hurt feelings will eventually take over. I know you won't agree with this now, but keep it in the back of your mind and remember back to this conversation when it happens.

john said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john said...

Hi Unknown,

I do hope everything works out for you and your family. As you are aware and have stated above "Analyze my statement" This will happen to all who post here. To me, you, other commentators even Peter's words have been analyzed, and anyone else who happens to stumble across this blog.

Just one addition. As you maybe aware, in S/A order is important.

You said

" I lost my job, my car, my family for a time, another job, every friend, every extended family member, all my pride, all my self confidence, my health"

I noticed you placed your "job and "car" before your "family" You then switch back to "another Job" then you place "every friend" before you "extended family"

I'm intrigued in the order you speak of.

Good look for the future.

Unknown said...

fine you missed the point. The point of all the emphasis and unreliable denial was to illustrate how i tell the truth.

So here. My definition of cheating includes any words or verbiage that any person can assume i am attempting to secretly separate from this definition for the intention of extra marital activities.

My definition of cheating includes all activities that would, in even the slightest manner, upset my wife, AND ANY OTHER person, if it was discovered their partner engaged in.

I am trying to explain, in whatever verbiage you need, i did not betray my wife in any manner, other than by ingestion of oxycodone, lying about oxy, stealing to further my oxy addiction, and any other activity involving obtaining oxy without her knowledge.

I have not felt the hands of another woman on me. I have not felt the kids

Unknown said...

I did that because i figured when i said women, some analyst would fire back with men.

I can't keep doing this. I did not cheat on my wife in any sense of the word.

Unknown said...

I do not down play her trust issues. I said i caused them. i own my actions. I do not attempt to pass blame to the addict with in me. I understand why and how my thoughts and actions were able to change so completely after becoming an addict.

I accept all responsibility for everything i have done, as an addict, before, and since.

Anonymous said...

Unknown,

You wrote

"I did that because i figured when i said women, some analyst would fire back with men.

" I can't keep doing this. I did not cheat on my wife in any sense of the word.

Hmmm. I dont believr you because your other statement where you said you consciously thought "awesome" when your wife asked if you were with a girl because then you werent lying".

Unknown said...

That was the orde. Chronologically in which i lost them. My wife could not keep dealing with bills with her job, while driving me to work, handling our sons etc etc. She needed me to get my shit together.
She was not aware how bad i needed to be as close to losing her and the kids as possible, without losing them to finally face the physical withdrawal.
Nothing would hurt more than losing her, so i focused on that, while i ran to the bathroom with butt piss and dealt with restless leg syndrome and so much more.

KatONine said...

If SA has nothing to do with “anxiety or guilt”, why does it keep being cited as the reasoning and logic behind why some words are flagged and others are not? That and SA is promoted as a “verbal polygraph” and everyone knows that the polygraph works to measure certain vitals that, apparently, spike in times of high stress and anxiety which points that someone is telling a lie, no? Now I’m being informed that it has nothing to do with this - whaaa?! Actually, I’d say that basing this upon how anxiety impacts speech and language is more logical and founded then “it’s about what language that people use to con others” ..mostly because it’s well documented that high levels of anxiety can impact speech and language in a variety of fashions – please see ‘selective mutism’ or ‘stuttering’ for further validation of this statement.

And when I spoke of people who have no guilt when it comes to lies, I wasn't talking about psychopaths. Some people have remorse, they just don't have remorse when it comes to deceptions. We're not born with guilt or remorse. It's created by experience of living, of having that shame implanted in us by the people in our lives. Some people are never taught that shame about deceiving people, it's a way of life, it's what they do and it's who they are. So, again, how would SA work on people like that?

I don't ask these questions out of malice or to offend anyone. It's not my intention. I ask them because I give SA the same treatment of 'critical thinking' that I do with almost all aspects of human science. It's my belief that SA would benefit greatly from having a critical review done on it as well as a larger range of research. I ask questions because I have them.

Now as for your comments, Anonymous. Heh. I'm not sure how you can taint marriage considering it was no more than a bartering agreement in the early days. It wasn’t about love and it wasn’t about God. In fact, it was pretty close to slavery now that I think about it. I mean, men selling their daughters like they were nothing but property to benefit from this certainly a grey area when it comes to the concept of human possession. Hmm. Anyway, moving right along, I appreciate your opinion and your prediction of my friends' future. I do doubt your accuracy so you are very correct in that comment. I'd like to note that the jealously and hurt feelings you mentioned have already been felt by the couple in the past. The wife, especially. That's how she came to the conclusion that the harshest truth still hurts less than a comforting lie. Perhaps the best thing this couple does is their lack of judgement they do upon others as well as their tendency to not make comparisons. They've accepted that all people are different, all people have their own minds and create their own opinions from their perspectives. I like that about them. I also like how trustworthy that household is - the jealous and hurt feelings you've mentioned? They HAVE happened. The difference between them and most relationships is everything is voiced in the open. If someone is having jealous feelings, they say as much. Nothing is left to linger in brooding silence. Why? Because they TALK about it with one another, there's no hiding feelings or lying that "everything is okay" when it's not. That is why I think many relationships suffer - lack of open communication. Can you be as open with your significant other as they are? Can you tell your significant other that you find a member of the opposite sex or even same sex attractive without them giving you a death glare? Or judging you? Or feeling like they are being compared? Could you listen to your significant other say that they find someone else attractive without you flipping out? Or judging them? Or comparing yourself?

Unknown said...

Lol. I guess i can't argue with that.

Anonymous said...

Unknown,

Butt piss and restless syndrome?
What the heck were you withdrawing from?

Restless leg syndrome? Seriously? Wow, that's really serious! I have a chronic pain condition that until I finally found a doctor to treat it corectly used to debilitate and cause suicidal thoughts, , and it never caused me to mistreat anyone, and I'll tell ya I would love a case of restless leg syndrome.

How can you possibly use something like that to try to create sympathy for yourself that you mistreared your wife?

Unknown said...

The general gist, is that anxiety and stress will effect your inflection and body language, but the words you choose... No, the words that are chosen subconsciously will still be properly chosen, unless you are attempting to pull a "memory" from another part of your brain, causing the words to be chosen automatically, which will show variations and differences that make sense.

If you were under extreme stress, even on the verge of death, you would not accidentally say "come there" if you wanted to whisper your last words to someone.

You would say "come here"without thinking.

The same way Billie said "she wasn't" about her daughter before she should have known the girl should be spoken of in the past tense.

Unknown said...

It was an attempt at humor. The restless legs are a very minor part while it feels like death is knocking on the door. I was attempting to connect with any opiate addicts who would understand instantly the nature of the joke.

Before i move on... what in the fuck are you talking about? I did not attempt to create sympathy. I do not want sympathy. I wanted an answer within the realms of statement analysis, about a very real, very common issue that is effecting millions of Americans. And the only way i could share this idea and get a proper answer, was to share that which i want to pretend never happened, but i can't, or it will happen again.

So fuck your sympathy. i know what i am, but more importantly, i know what i was.

And those two are at different ends of the spectrum. A few years ago, they collided and i was phased out And the addict took over.

Well i took me back. and my wife took me back. And my kids took me back. So fuck your sympathy. I got enough guilt that i won't ever need sympathy again

Unknown said...

I don't think even a psychopath would be able to switch words CONSCIOUSLY without stumbling and Bumbling. A lack of empathy and emotion will not cause Ted Bundy to say "i said" when he was in a position of authority. He would say "i told"

A sexual predator that is an amazing liar still might switch from "child" to "girl" when he gets to the part in the event where he abuses her.

Unknown said...

I don't think even a psychopath would be able to switch words CONSCIOUSLY without stumbling and Bumbling. A lack of empathy and emotion will not cause Ted Bundy to say "i said" when he was in a position of authority. He would say "i told"

A sexual predator that is an amazing liar still might switch from "child" to "girl" when he gets to the part in the event where he abuses her.

Anonymous said...

Unknown, you wrote

"I wanted an answer within the realms of statement analysis, about a very real, very common issue that is effecting millions of Americans. And the only way i could share this idea and get a proper answer, was to share that which i want to pretend never happened, but i can't, or it will happen again."

If I understand your problem correctly, your wife comes to this site and knows how to detect your lies.
You did something, and from your language, it goes far beyond, being hooked on prescription pain pills and then getting off them.
Your language indicates you have cheated on your wife, not just once but repeatedly, and that you are interested in continuing that lifestyle, and I strongly suspect from the language you used, it was with men. I feel that what you are doing is that you want to learn how to convince your wife you are not cheating because you do not believe you are cheating, because it's with guys, and perhaps you are in denial that you are even "attracted" to them and whatever "activity" you do with them you feel doesn't constitute what we would typically think of when we think of "cheating".

Am I wrong?

Anonymous said...

Katonline said,

"That is why I think many relationships suffer - lack of open communication. Can you be as open with your significant other as they are? Can you tell your significant other that you find a member of the opposite sex or even same sex attractive without them giving you a death glare? Or judging you? Or feeling like they are being compared? Could you listen to your significant other say that they find someone else attractive without you flipping out? Or judging them? Or comparing yourself?"

If you love someone why is it important to tell them that you find someone else attractive?
If you love someone why is it such a big deal to give up sex with other people or drooling over other people? Yes, everyone finds other people attractive but must you tell your partner? Do you realize how much better love is than the freedom to have sex with a thousand people?
I wish I'd realized that years ago. You're young and stupid when you're 23 though lol.

Anonymous said...

Katonline,

I don't mean that in a harsh way either. It's just superficial stuff like the guy/woman walking by are hot isn't stuff you need to tell your partner.
If life gives you the blessing of falling in love with someone, and they love you too, take it, and don't rub in their face how hot everyone is.
Cause anyone can have sex with a hundred people and walk away empty. If the universe gives you love, take it, cause that's a higher plane to really fall in love with someone and go with it.
If you love someone and they love you, that's a gift from the universe. Sleeping with people cause their hot and telling your partner is a sure way to lose that gift and end up very empty inside. That's ego stuff. He's hot, I can sleep with him. She's hot. I can sleep with her. Real love tears that mask off, that's the scary part, but that's the great part too. Love destroys ego. So it's one or the other. You choose love or ego. Ego usually wins out, but at least see it for what it is.

Anonymous said...

You originally came on here though, acting like you didn't know why you're wife didn't believe you, and you thought it was from years of being in the sales business. Yes, you admittedly left something out, but come to find out, it was the whole cause of the trust issues. It was obvious from your first comment that something wasn't "right" with you. When you brought the word health in, I assumed you probably had a physical ailment, which we all know what happens when we assume. Maybe you do take full responsibility, and I hope you do, and if you do, than that's great. If you approach this topic in the way you started out, it doesn't look that way. That's all I'm saying. Best wishes to you and your wife. I hope you've been completely honest with her, in that you have no intention of staying clean though. Either way, you could plainly see why she would have trust issues, because either you're hiding that from her (which is almost guaranteed, seeing as how she didn't handle your initial addiction well, which is completely understandable), OR I have no idea why she'd just be hanging around wonderi to herself every single day, if today is the day.

Anonymous said...

*your. Sorry for all the typos, my device is being slow and glitchy.

Unknown said...

I did not come here to find out anything about my wife. I illustrated the origins of my type of speech, so i could receive an answer vis a vis statement analysis.

You said for me... Tsk tsk

Anonymous said...

Perhaps I can explain my thoughts this way about the couple with the "open" relationship.

Love is better than sex.
Experience has shown me that.

Someone who smokes pot and never tried anything else would think "wow this is awesome". That's like your open relationship couple. It's like to them, sex, seeing who else is hot, thinking they're hot, is where it's at. Having the power over their partner to put them down, really, by saying, honey you don't mind if I tell you "I think X is really sexy". You're not going to compare yourself to him/her are you, cause everyone's "different" so you shouldn't feel bad" That's about power, and if you want love, love don't like power.
Compared to pot, love is more like cocaine. In one way. That it brings you higher.
You'll be SHOCKED at how great it is!
Love, real love, is like a shock. And it's just way better than staying on that power plane where you try to have an edge over your partner. Trying to rub in your partner's face how sexy you are, how sexy somebody else besides your partner is, love doesn't like that. And trust me, it's not hard in life to get an edge over your partner or for them to do so to you. It's an ego boost. It fools you into thinking, this will make me feel great and then I will have the upper hand. And you will. You will have the upper hand. And then love leaves. That's how it works. And then, you will feel very bad. Very, very bad.

Unknown said...

Yes. You are incorrect

Anonymous said...

Unknown wrote

"I did not come here to find out anything about my wife. I illustrated the origins of my type of speech, so i could receive an answer vis a vis statement analysis."

Is this how you talk to your wife? Try to confuse her with words so that she has no idea what the hell you are talking about? And she called you out on your BS too, didn't she, and that's why you came here because you don't think what you do to her is wrong.

"I did not come here to find out anything about my wife"

Noone in this entire conversation said you did.

"I illustrated the origins of my type of speech"

Really was that the main jist of what you wrote? When you lied to us and said that you overmphasize your speech from being a "door to door salesman"?

"So I could receive an answer vis a vis statement analysis"

An answer to what? You word it so noone really knows what you want an answer to huh? Is that what you do to your wife when you talk to her? You like to play games with her head huh?

I feel sorry for her. You do cheat on her. You have and you will. And I hope you don't give her a disease.

Anonymous said...

Unknown said

"Yes, you are incorrect."

What am I incorrect about?

Anonymous said...

Unknown,

Your language is becoming more and more aggressive. Just because we don't necessarily believe every word you are saying, you're using language towards people you haven't even met, which is not pleasant. Do you react like this in the real world, at home and not in cyber space when people do not believe everything you say or do.

You go on to say.

"A sexual predator that is an amazing liar still might switch from "child" to "girl" when he gets to the part in the event where he abuses her".

The introduction of "Sexual predator" and "child abuse" is not, i believe warranted in this discussion and or relevant. Why use that analogy ?' You use gender specific "He" and not the gender neutral someone/somebody etc ?

Previous to that you say.

"I have not felt the hands of another woman on me. I have not felt the kids" Personal Subjective internal dictionary ?

I don't understand this part of your statement ? Can you see why this type of language would be flagged.?

Unknown said...

Anon @ 5:03 said i came here...why am i doing this... Sigh

Anonymous said...

KatONine, I feel that marriage is a sacred bond of love between two people. I don't agree with the lifestyle you describe, but I appreciate the different point of view. If the couple knew they had no interest in a monogamous relationship, and/or view marriage in the negative (bartering tool, slavery, etc.), then why did they get married to begin with?

Anonymous said...

unknown said

"when you had this little alcoholic fit, you said you told yourself the power was all yours. Absolutely true. But before you had that moment of clarity, as its called, you could not stop, could you? Nobody could get through could they? An addict that is not ready, is not a recovering addict.

No, I did not have a moment of clarity. Basically when you wake up feeling like you got by a bus everyday. When people tell you "you drink too much", "you don't remember meeting me?", "you're an alcoholic" you know you're an alcoholic and you keep drinking. Yes you try to say oh it's not that bad, I don't really drink that much, but you know you do. I am stronger than most people, and that was helpful, but I don't agree with disempowering addicted people by saying "you are powerless in the face of your addiction" because that is not true, and if it was true, NOONE WOULD EVER QUIT!!!!

Anonymous said...

Unknown said

"Oxy was my gateway drug".

Whoah. That's bad.

If that's the case though that oxy was your gateway drug, you must be hooked on heroine right now. You said you're not sober. You're clean and you haven't had oxy. So what's going on and why are you talking nonstop about oxy? You're hooked on heroine?? And the wife doesn't like that huh? And you're telling her you're not on pain pills and she doesn't like that cause you're shooting up heroine? Or, from your words, it sounds like you snort it.

Unknown said...

Apologies anon @ 6:59 i am trying extremely hard, but i did say i have a very difficult time when i am being honest, to not be believed

I WAS sorta the whole reason i posted.

I will stop responding. I accidently hit submit whmmrmy swype keyboard entered felt the kids, when i was attempting to swype felt any lips

Unknown said...

That's the moment dude

Anonymous said...

Unknown wrote

"I have never, in any way, at any time, placed my hands on, nor kissed, nor been sexual or intimate, nor even been in a private setting, clothed or in any state of undress with anybody other than my wife"

"clothed or in any state of undress"

You are such a liar. You actually have fun messing with your wife's head don't you?

Most people have sex unclothed, hence you got it around it by saying "clothed or in any STATE OF UNDRESS".

Lying to your wife is a game to you.

Apple said...

So... Interesting about brian williams, huh?

Kellie said...

Hi Unknown.

You've got quite the chaotic situation on your hands! Text-book substance abuse dysfunction.

I spent 25 years in the recovery field. I can share with you from my experience that it takes time and persistent effort to re-establish trust once it's been broken and it's the rare recovering addict who's easily willing to do what it takes. They get resentful and feed on guilt. "The alcoholic (also read addict) is an extreme example of self-will run riot." That's a quote from a book you may be familiar with :)

An active, addictive lifestyle requires the development of a deceptive mindset. Much like a child who has been raised in a deceptive environment. A substance abuser may have to spend quite some time in pro-active recovery before they become consciously aware of the many ways they are, or have been, deceptive. It's a learning curve. And until one can be honest with themselves it's impossible to be fully honest with anyone else.

If you aren't involved in a support group I would suggest that you seek one out. Best of luck to you!!!!

Anonymous said...

I don't understand this. You were addicted to Oxy and only Oxy for 10 years. Only after that 10 years then you tried other substances? You quit Oxy, then tried other drugs? You said you've been "clean" since 2013. When did your Oxy addiction begin, how many years ago? You've been married for 13 years you said. So 10 years of Oxy-only addiction, then how many years of "other substances"? 2015 just began, so basically one year or less of being clean, yet you also say you're not off drugs, and that you don't plan on staying clean anyway.

I originally thought there was a non-issue with your wife not believing you you due to your sales approach which you claim snuck into your everyday language. Then I even thought that ot was good that you quit the Oxy and was taking responsibility, BUT the more you continue on, you are totally deceptive in just about everything you say, and apparently everything you say and do to your poor wife. She obviously knows this about you, you've proven it here in what, a day? Get yourself clean, for real, stop lying, lying by omission is still lying, whic you've been doing here, then saying HA I didn't say this or that. Stop being deceptive. Either straighten yourself out, or let your wife know the whole truth so she can move on. She can probably deal with your OxOxy addiction, and she probably thinks that's all she's dealing with, because you are so deceptive you won't allow her to know what she's really dealing with. How fair is that? You're a very selfish person. And adding up the years, has there ever been a time with your wife that you were completely clean and sober? No drugs or substances of any kind?

Unknown said...

No. Good try Though. Remember my words. I have not had any form of opiates since becoming clean.

Unknown said...

Great reply. thank you. I do have a group. My wife and i go together. It helps her deal with the feelings of resentment and the memory of the anger.

I will never relapse! Jk:-) i would not say such nonsense

Anonymous said...

Lol, Apple. :)

Anonymous said...

"I do have a group. My wife and i go together. It helps her deal with the feelings of resentment and the memory of the anger."

Oh, I'm sure it's not a memory, Unknown.

Anonymous said...

Unknown, you said Oxy was a gateway drug.

You also said that you were clean "in this beautiful moment" but you are not sober.
You actually reprimanded one of the commenters for saying that you said you were sober.

I can tell you one thing. You've driven your wife insane haven't you?

Anonymous said...

How could someone never have been in a private setting, while clothed, with anyone else besides their wife? That's bizarre. This guy is saying he's never been in anyone elses presence, besides his wifes. The whole thing itself here has become bizarre. I replied to a comment quite a bit up, that is pretty much in agreement with your statement here about him messing with his wifes head. -He's clean, he's not off drugs, sobriety isn't so great, Oxy only, Oxy was a gateway drug. The whole entire thing is either a lie (trolling), or this guy is one of the most deceptive people I think I've ever come across. Yes Unknown, lying by omission is still lying. Here and to your wife.

13 years of marriage
10 years of Oxy-only addiction
? years of "other substance" addiction
Clean since 2013
Not off drugs though, admittedly

If this is even a true stor, it's falling apart with all your lies and deception. I hope your wife finds the strength to get through this and realize what's going on. God knows you'll never tell her.

Kellie said...

Two more things Unknown.

I would expect a serious recovering addict to tell me how their support group is helping THEM, not how it is helping their spouse. Also, it's telling that you are so passionate to disprove the accuracy of Statement Analysis. ;)

Anonymous said...

That poor lady.

Hey unknown, if you so insist on having your wife check your texts, call friends, etc., does she have the displeasure of checking your internet history/usage? I think you should have her check this whole thread out here, you know, you being so open and honest with her and all.

Anonymous said...

Anon wrote

"How could someone never have been in a private setting, while clothed, with anyone else besides their wife? That's bizarre. This guy is saying he's never been in anyone elses presence, besides his wifes."

I wondered about that too.

I think this guy is for real and really does mess with his wife's head. I think he did something very bad and he tries to distract her with all these weird peripheral issues that he also lies about.

Unknown said

"But the scary thing is i might not. I tend to drop "do not" and "don't" for more emphatic words. "have not ever, in any way, harmed my wife, nor have i done anything that would even be slightly construed, mistaken or questioned as an action that would hurt her, physically or emotionally."

The dude beats his wife and mentally abuses her, I can tell that from his statements.
He's arrogant and probably does stuff like hits her and then says something like "What are you talking about! I didn't do anything that could be remotely construed, arranged, or presented as a physical action of harm, threat or malice against you." His wife probably struggles with her sanity because of him.

Unknown said...

Lol. My wife can kick my addict ass. She's Latina, and most assuredly, DOES NOT fuck around.

If i even looked cross eyed at her, she'd whoop my ass.

I really wish you guys would take my statements at their face value. I did not deceive in any post on this site. except for that one where i withheld info, but said so...i guess that was deceptive. Heh

Unknown said...

Two things. No three. I have completely misrepresented myself here.

I am not trying to disprove SA. i truly wanted to know, if Peter or any sa heard my way of giving accurate and truthful statements, how would they know i was not being deceptive? In other words what if i was falsely accused And Peter was hired to determine if i was innocent, how can SA ensure an innocent man is not falsely convicted?

If you guys still don't believe me, fine insert a generic, innocent person, who happens to speak like a pathological liar?

I believe the answer is, many base line questions will determine the subject uses an over abundance of emphasis

Unknown said...

Don't misunderstand. The group helps because it helps my wife. She is my... my everything.

I am still an addict. I am addicted to my wife. She's all i need

HereWeGoAgain said...

UNKNOWN just wants validation that the principles of Statement Analysis do not Always apply to everyone (i.e. Him) across the board.
I think he has proven that is certainly not the case.
I might even suggest this is a surprise SA exercise planted by Peter ----- sort of a belated Groundhog Day gift!

elf said...

Unknown - thou doth protest to much.
Liars like to talk alot lol

Sus said...

Ok Unknown,
SA picks up deception or sensitivity, but not necessarily about what. That requires further questioning. Peter has written about this many times. We shouldn't jump to the comclusion that someone is guilty of murder when we see deceit. It might be about something else.

So in your case, we might flag your language for deceit or sensitive to some issues because you use too many qualifiers. We would be correct to do so and question you further. As your wife is doing. Why? Because you are sensitive about the issue of trust. SA is working just fine. We are picking up this issue.

I still think whether you realize it, or not, you are using the same type of language denying cheating to your wife as you use making a sale or lying about drugs...because they're all the same to you. I said it last night...I doubt your wife wants the deal closed on her. She will decide when she can trust you.

Sus said...

That's really not good. I would not like to replace oxys as my husband's addiction.

Jen Ow said...

Lol...YES, Apple!

(I logged on and saw 100+ comments on the Brian Williams article.)

Me: "Oh wow, people must have found a lot of his statements to analyze."

(After I read these 50-80, or more repetitive responses, to responses, to responses, and so on.)

Me: WHAT. THE. HELL.

Lol

Jen Ow said...

I can't help but notice a familiar tone, and pattern, to these posts!

;-)

Anonymous said...

"It was an attempt at humor. The restless legs are a very minor part while it feels like death is knocking on the door. I was attempting to connect with any opiate addicts who would understand instantly the nature of the joke.

Oh, I get it! I am an opiate addict and that is a real knee-slapper! No pun intended, when death is knocking at the door and your legs get restless, that is the last thing you want to do is slap them!!!!

tania cadogan said...

Unknown said...

No. Good try Though. Remember my words. I have not had any form of opiates since becoming clean.


Here is where i have a problem, you specify opiates, what about other types of drugs, the non opiates?

Why specify only one specific type of drug rather than drugs as a whole?

What about OTC medications?
What about properly prescribed medication from your doctor?

You can be addicted to those just as much as as opiates.

Deception can take many forms be it minimising, lying by omission, creating a false reality.
We are picking up on the deception though at first we weren't sure on what.
You then admitted it was in relation to drugs.
We are now picking up on the sensitivity in relation to your drug use, and, as with any statement, the more you talk the more we pick up as you leak marbles.

As we pick up on the sensitivity, you are becoming more aggressive to us and defensive about your own behavior thus revealing more truth and sensitivity.

Being in denial about yourself fools no one, it certainly won't fool your wife, who you admit, already has trust issues concerning you.

If you want this to work, then you have to be brutally honest not only with her but yourself as well.
You have to admit you have a problem and seek help.

You have to decide where your priorities lie, drink and drugs or your wife and your life.

S + K Mum said...

Incredibly ignorant statement!!

john said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john said...

I did not cheat on my wife in any sense of the word.

Oops!

Reliable denial (RD) the rule of three.

tania cadogan said...

Unknown.

you tell us the help group is helping your wife and not yourself.
Explain why it is helping her?
Why is it not helping you?

You tell us oxy was your gateway drug.
This tells me that you went on to use harder drugs.
This is likely to be the harder opiates such as heroin or maybe you got onto crack or meth.
A gateway drug is one considered to be 'harmless' or less addictive such as weed.
It's use is thought to lead to or encourage the user to try more addictive drugs.

Unknown said...
Apologies anon @ 6:59
I will stop responding. I accidently hit submit whmmrmy swype keyboard entered felt the kids, when i was attempting to swype felt any lips

I have a problem here and i suspect you just leaked something damning.
FELT ANY LIPS is not remotely close to FELT THE KIDS
ANY is hard to typo as THE
KIDS is hard to typo as LIPS as D and P are at opposite ends of the keyboard.

As soon as this was noticed you then said you would stop responding.
Your excuse that this was a typo caused when you swyped accompanied by sudden bad spelling and typos when all the previous posts were spelled correctly.

This wasn't an accident, you leaked marbles.
Initially you spoke about cheating and addiction and then for no reason introduced child abuse, something that was not relevant to the discussion.
Do you have children in your marriage?
I ask as you said THE KIDS (a definite article in front of a noun)
Is this perhaps an accusation she made?

A sexual predator that is an amazing liar still might switch from "child" to "girl" when he gets to the part in the event where he abuses her
You have admitted to being a liar, perhaps even a good one due to your job and hiding your addiction.
Would you consider yourself to be an amazing liar perhaps?
Why would a sexual predator who was an amazing liar switch from a child to a girl?

What is your definition of a child?
What is your definition of a girl?
It is interesting you introduce he word EVENT in relation to abuse.
Tell me about the event

Kellie said...

Tania, I wish I had the ability to articulate as you have in your post @10:15 AM. I had the sense of what you're pointing out regarding Unknown referring to "kids". It jumped out at me, gave me an internal reaction.

Sara said...

To all the commenters with lying ex spouses and children:

You must validate reality to your child. Reality is the truth. Do not allow your child to be harmed by denying reality by validating the liar under the misapplied prohibition against harming the child's relationship with his/her father.
If you do not validate reality who will? Your child will be driven crazy- thinking "that's not true but dad says it is, I must be wrong cause dad is right, what's wrong with me? I can't decern fact from fiction, I better just go with dads version, cause he is right and I am wrong, in fact, for the rest of my life I will allow others to do my thinking for me because I cannot trust my own thought processes".
You as the protective parent CAN validate without basing. Choose less emotive language. Say That is Not True vs that is a lie. Say What he said is not true vs He is a liar.
Finally, do not confront the other parent!!!! In my case this led to very bad outcomes for my children. I want my children to be able to come to me so I can help them deal with the crap their dad does to them. I can't help if they are afraid to tell me because last time they did their dad found out they told and punished them.

I cannot protect them from their dad. But, I can teach them how to best protect themselves. I have been about 90% successful. But he does still hurt them. Someday they will probably cut him off.

My biggest regret in life was making him their father. I wish I had chosen better. I escaped but they cannot. I have a lot of guilt.

Funny irony-- After the divorce he moved only 5 blocks away so he could stalk me. But the jokes on him because they are older now and when his behavior get out of control they run away and walk home!! With the housing crash he cannot afford to move to prevent it!! He hides their shoes but they've come home barefoot!! I have a code access lock on my door so they can come in anytime and I didn't have to risk giving them a key he would copy.

Anonymous said...

Anyone else remember how at the beginning Unknown said there is critical information he is withholding and he wants to see if we can pick up on it "before he spills thr beans"?

Anyone else notice he referred to his darkest deed or something like that?

Maybe he's a pedophile seeing if we can detect it.

Anonymous said...

Unknown wrote

"Now, there is a CRITICAL piece of information i have left out, about myself. I will await your response before spilling the beans."

In the beginning where he talks about a court case involving the hypothetical situation w the governors wife and brings it to a court level.
He also talks about what parole boards and juries want to hear.
I think the guys facing charges for simething and trying to get tips on sounding believable in court.
He seems preoccupied with giving weird answers to wife when she asks him if he cheated. Very weird answers.
Very concerning.

tania cadogan said...

I recall in the case of Ayla Reynolds going missing, we had a commentator come in linking himself to the case and in particular the dipietros.

In his case it was one word that revealed the truth about the man.
The word was caress he used the word in relation to telling us to go home and caress your children.

it is amazing what one single word in just the right (or in this case) wrong place, revealed the truth about him,
We commentators picked up on it immediately and questioned him as to why he used that word.
I found it scary that i was communicating with what could be one of the vilest criminals to exist, i felt tainted yet i and many others needed to know more, were we seeig what wasn't there or had we revealed the truth behind the man?
He admited when confronted that yes he was a paedophile but that it was many years back and he had not committed any crime since.
The problem was he used present tense in his responses, minimised the crime and unreliable denials, he was still a clear and present danger.

Listen to what the subject tells you, assume they are telling the truth, that way anything unexpected will stand out.
The area of interest can then be looked at closer to see why they said what they said, sometimes it is sensitive but for different reasons, sometimes the sensitivity is warranted due to guilty knowledge.

Anonymous said...

I remember that guy Tania. He was the creep who did some fundraiser Ayla. Great insights.
I dont think it would be crazy to wonder if this guy was related to a case on here. Who knows, maybe even the Ayla case? What jumped out at me was "door to door salesman". Maybe unknown is Derrick from the Ayla case as he is a life insurance salesman who sold the policy on Ayla's life to his best buddy Justin.
Unknown said he is withholding CRITICAL information.
Actually, with the Ayla case wasnt Justin's girlfriend's cousin busted for dealing pills? And Justin too was dealing something? Perpetrators sometimes like to taunt police. We're not the police, but we are the word police. It might be worth some of us taking a closer look at his language. I wonder if he could be Derrick?

Anonymous said...

From Unknown's words:

"So, if you were flipping through channels, and you happened to catch me making this statement, would you condemn me?"

Why does unknown think he's going to be on the news?

Anonymous said...

Unknown said


So, when someone, such as a teenager, or a sales person who has incorporated parts of deceptive speech into their everyday life, how can a statement analyst hope to ensure avoiding a false deception conclusion? Especially when it is the difference between freedom and life in prison?

Especially when it is the difference between freedom and life in prison
AND HE SPILLS MARBLES THAT THIS CONCERN IS LINKED TO

"a salesperson who has incorporated deceptive speech into their everyday life"

Anonymous said...

I was actually wondering if it was the person from Ayla's case that started that nasty blog.

Anonymous said...

Which blog?

Anonymous said...

There was a nasty blog, that was all against Ayla's mother, and all for the dipietro's. The writing style, and personality of Unknown reminds me of the person who ran the blog. It's probably just a coincidence, a similar personality type. The person used to claim to know a lot about law, so when Unknown kept bringing up court issues, a little lightbulb went off.

tania cadogan said...

Unknown seems to have gone quiet :)

Anonymous said...

I'm sure he's following along. I've been waiting for the old, "I have super important things to do, you people spend too much time here!". :)

tania cadogan said...

Anonymous said...

I'm sure he's following along. I've been waiting for the old, "I have super important things to do, you people spend too much time here!". :)


Teehee :D

Anonymous said...

It's like a shark tank in here.

Peter Hyatt said...

Sean,

as I said earlier, I am grateful for the corrected information and corrected analysis.

No apology necessary.


Peter

Anonymous said...


unknown has had a good laugh on you all.