Tuesday, July 21, 2015

Part Two of DeOrre Parents' Interview






This is part two of the analysis of missing 2 year old's parents' interview.  Part one is 

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2015/07/statement-analysis-deorres-parents.html

There are some concerning things from the father, including the praise of failed searches, his constant change of pronouns and self censoring, and his use of unexpected phrases, such as "dead" (twice).  

There is a highly sensitive portion of his statement regarding him in his truck. 

Analysis showed that there was a disagreement between mother and father (with, perhaps, other family too) regarding calling 911.  Someone in the family did not want 911 called immediately. 

This could be anything from guilt, up to confidence that DeOrre would be found quickly.  The delay is seen in the language and is a sensitive point to the father, though perhaps not to the mother.  Her  911 call did not show deception, nor "guilty" knowledge.  This means that in the call, deception is not there, but it is limited to that particular 911 call, and nothing else.  It is the statement analyzed.  

Here the analysis continues in bold type with emphasis added to the statement for clarity.  

I:  Interviewer
D:  DeOrre, the father
J:   Mother 

I : do you plan to hold a vigil down here? I guess you haven't even thought about it. Do you want the community in Idaho Falls to rally? I know they don't want a lot of people up there.

D: that's what we're not real sure. I don't, yet again, as a father who's very concerned, with the whole family, we'll tell you 'yes, if we can get the whole state of Idaho up there we would love to' - but in such a small area that has been combed and combed and combed, something may have been missed but I don't know. 

The subject has done a lot of 'self-censoring' or interrupting of himself, which may indicate missing information.  It would be interesting to learn if this is his normal speech pattern, but this could only be learned in listening to him on a topic unrelated to the disappearance of his son. 

Please note that he says, "as a father who's very concerned" is a need to persuade his audience that his is concerned.  This is sensitive. 


What makes him feel a need to be perceived as a "very concerned" father, so much so, that he is repetitive with it?


Speaking for himself and for his wife, seated with him, the word "we" is appropriate.  While using "we" as a norm, based upon this standard, the use of "I" becomes very important.  

The pronoun "I" comes in "I don't know", of which context is him not knowing if his son could still be there, but missed since they searched "combed", "combed" and "combed" (3 times).  

The broken "I" earlier, where he introduces himself as a father (see above), this broken "I" is not completed.  



I've been trying,,,I'm gonna be getting with the Lhima HC Sherriff in Snake River, sorry, the Salmon - Snake and River-.Salmon Search and Rescue, to see what their thoughts on everything is, and trust me with such a small area, one hundred and seventy five people, there was nowhere to park, nowhere to walk, there was grid searches up from one end - there's ridges from one side to the other and they're not very far apart, and they was all searched, all the way down to the bottom all the way above the reservoir. The rest itself, not a lot of people know the place. The reservoir itself isn't but maybe a few feet deep. If you're up on top you can see the bottom of the centre. If you're looking at the middle you can see the bottom of it, so everything has been 100% thoroughly checked but nobody can guarantee me 100% so I'm gonna keep looking.
"I've been trying...I'm gonna be getting with the Lhima HC Sheriff" is an incomplete sentence, with missing information. 
1.  "I've been trying", in context, is connected to the Sheriff Dept (law enforcement).  He self censors, and it appears that this may be to avoid a direct lie: 

He did not, at this point in the statement, "try" to contact this specific Sheriff Dept (or Sheriff), so he 'corrects' his information with "I'm gonna", which is future tense. 

This is concerning as it indicates a need to place himself as "with the good guys" in helping.  

Next, we see the word "sorry" in his language. 

In Statement Analysis, we highlight the word "sorry" no matter what the context is, when we are viewing a possible suspect in a crime.  

It could be "leakage" regardless of context. 

It shows up in the language of the guilty. 

An example that comes to mind is Casey Anthony.  Many use this expression politely and it is not associated with guilt; therefore it is simply something we note because:

It often shows up in the language of those guilty of having committed a crime in which they are "sorry", one way or another, for.  This "sorrow" may be for the action, or it may be for getting caught (the consequence). 

If it is leakage, it is likely indicative of an unintended death, as "my son", that is, in part one, we saw that the father referenced his child as "my son" in a critical point in the statement, something habitual child abusers avoid.  

Did DeOrre meet his death accidentally, only to now have his father involved in covering the accident?  It is a possibility. 

One of the reasons I say that if something happened, it was unintentional is due to the appropriate and instinctive use of "my son" but there are other reasons.  Please note:

a.  There is no subtle blaming of the child;
b.  There is no subtle insult of the child, even when talking of his limitations

Guilty parties find strange ways to blame the child, including, "fussy", or "you know teenagers" and so on.  Nothing in the language shows a bad relationship between parents and child.  

If Jessica, his wife, knew of it, she did not show it in her 911 call.  

If kidnapped, "sorry" should be discarded and the sensitivity of the father could be related to the guilt of having to chose the location from which his son was kidnapped.  The sensitivity is there:  the challenge is to learn why.  Responsible parents blame themselves for everything, even to the point of having accepted a job and moving the family to the state where the tragedy occurred.  The sensitivity is not due to guilt of the crime, but of having, overall, been responsible.  This sometimes is the case.  

We remain open and wish the subject to guide us.  The interviewer utterly failed to address the biggest issue, and had a perfect opportunity when the father talked about an eye witness seeing him in his truck.  

Here that is again from Part One:  

Jessica: I just, somebody at the store, um at Leador, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store, said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him, and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only other...

"I just" is stopped.  She does not complete her sentence.  This topic is sensitive to her.  Why?  Since she did not show deception, is she uncomfortable because it makes the father uncomfortable?

"...said that they saw, umm, a gentleman and a younger blood boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him, and he was just bawling, in a black truck..."
Jessica: he drives a black truck.

Not, "my husband drives a black truck" or plainly, "DeOrre drives a black truck..." but "he."

It is not a 'smoking gun' of evidence, but just a tiny element that causes me to pause and wonder.  This case is a mystery.  

DeOrre Sr.: as a family, we went down to get a few things. It was me, but they claim it was at six o clock...that afternoon, evening, but we..were...


Note the immediate "rebuttal" of sorts:

1.  He drives a black pick up truck" answered with:
2.  Not, "yes I do" but "as a family" (plural) "we went down" and then why "we went down" giving the reason why they went down, followed by:
3.  Admission, "It was me"followed by rebuttal:
4.  "but" and to the time period. 

This is not to deny going but to classify it within time, but before time, company.  

Jessica: Earlier, it was earlier that day

DeOrre Sr.: ..with search and rescue until what, a quarter to four..?


Jessica: yeah..

DeOrre Sr.: we didn't, we never, haven't left the camp since one o clock that afternoon, so it's just a lot of hearsay, and..


This statement is very concerning.  

a.  "we didn't" is stopped. 
b.  "we never" is stopped.
c.  "haven't left" is a dropped pronoun, removing himself from this.  

d.  Note the need to dismiss as "hearsay"

This should have caused the Interviewer to ask him if he had driven with his son, alone, at any time in the day.  Sometimes time frames can be mix ups, but it is the responsibility of the Interviewer to ask.  


The poor quality of the interview leaves not only the father in control of information, but leaves the reader with more questions than answers.  It is very poorly done.  

interviewer: was anybody camping round you?

D: that we don't know is...come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...
interviewer: So they could've come to your...


The father's habit of speech is to speak rapidly and lots of self censoring.  We note that this does not seem to change or shift much, from topic to topic.  We note the self censoring coupled with broken pronouns.  It is concerning.  

"I come to hear" is present tense. 

Note the change from "we" to "I" being very important to him:  it is about the area.  It is likely, according to the language, that he is very sensitive about having chosen this spot for his family to camp.  

Overall, he allows for the sound to help conceal someone:


D: they could've come in and you could never know it. The water was not very, it was not a fast running creek, but it is quite loud moving through the logs and things like that, so hearing range is not all that far either..so's you couldn't hear anyone coming up either.


Interviewer: so he was just kind of playing, you guys were doing your thing and then you noticed...

D: he was playing with grandpa

J: he, yeah, he was with my grandfather

The parents relate to him differently.  "Grandpa" is a word a child might use, while "my" shows the biological being more likely.  "Grandpa" often a term of endearment, suggests that the father does not have, at this point, animosity (blame) towards Grandpa.  I wonder if Jessica felt the same.  

********end of clipped section of part one***************************


Jessica: we'll continue to look until he is found - we don't care how long it takes, we, and we think as many people that have shared the story and continue to share his pictures and things like that, if somebody has him, they'll eventually bring him back...and they will come forward with some sort of information.


Guilty parents sometimes say they will "never stop searching." 

D: somebody will come forward wondering where this child has come from. That may not be the case, but it could be, so that's why we're trying to look at this aspect as well.


The use of the word child could:

a.  Be a signal that he, father, was a victim of child abuse in his life
b.  a signal of abuse of the son, which is not consistent with other language 
c.  a signal of fear that a child molester has him 

it is associated with child abuse, but it is in the follow up questions that we learn the details, should the context not tell us. 

I: and you want people to keep sharing?


The interviewer's own inexperience, or nervousness could be the reason for this.  It is difficult to learn and often helpful to have video taped sessions reviewed, something very few enjoy, but most all say helps them grow in their use of the principles of analytical interviewing.  

J: yes, please keep sharing photos.


D: yes. Keep sharing his photos, keep him in your mind, your hearts and your prayers, and just keep looking, keep your eyes open, please. Social media in general, in public just keep your eyes open and keep sharing.


I: tell me about the blanket.


Jessica: this is his blanket. He doesn't go anywhere without his blanket, his cup, or his monkey, and all three of them were left at the campground. And since he..

D: All three has to be with him.


It is not unusual for husbands and wives to finish each others' sentences.  The majority of finishing sentences comes from wives. Here, he is the dominant speaker 

J: Yes.


D: He will trip over them if he has to, but they are going with him, and this is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, that he's been without these things...and that's another reason why we were wondering.


I would have liked to hear the child's name.  If this is an accident/cover up, the guilt can cause such distancing language.  

J: Yes, because this is the blanket that we brought him home in from the hospital, this is his, this is what comforts him and at all times.


D: This is an exact replica of a security blanket, for everybody this is his actual blanket - he does not go anywhere without it, that's our other concern of why.


J: Yeah, and I..


Interviewer: should he be out there and happen to see this, what would you say?


Keep in mind that the Interviewer directed them to speak directly to their son: 

D: We're looking for you, son, and we will find y,oh, and we love you more than anything in the world. You have a lot of people who love you and who are looking for you, buddy, we'll find you - Daddy will find you.


J: We won't stop looking until we get you home.


I: [inaudible].- is there anything you want to add?


J: Just if somebody has him, please don't hurt him, just bring him home safely to us.


Mother introduces "hurt" 



D: No matter what it takes.


J: ..where he belongs. Even if you have to just leave him at a store where somebody else will see him and bring him home safely to us. I don't - just drop him off somewhere where -


D: And if that's not the case..


J: - somebody is at so they can see him and bring him home.


D: And if that may not be the case, I will, we will search for you, and search for you, and search for you, until we find you, no matter how long it takes, no matter what we gotta overcome, we will find you,son.


Next, a synopsis of the case and conclusion of Statement Analysis 

368 comments:

1 – 200 of 368   Newer›   Newest»
Suzanne said...

He uses the phrase "in such a small area" a lot. I don't know what that means but it's weird to keep hearing him say "in such a small area" so often.

C5H11ONO said...

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=35502072
"According to Sgt. Jeff Edwards, a woman at the Ammon Wal-Mart called the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office around 3:45 p.m. She told detectives she spotted a boy she believed could have been Deorr Kunz Jr. with a man. The two-year-old disappeared while camping with his family in Leadore, Idaho on Friday."

The article states that detectives reviewed the Wal-Mart surveillance video and investigated the tip. Tuesday afternoon they determined the lead was unfounded.

Jessica: I just, somebody at the store, um at Leador, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store, said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him, and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only other...

--Why would she state: at "the" store. Would this come from prior knowledge from the police, or was she actually there as well?

C5H11ONO said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169273/Police-search-wolf-den-nearby-reservoir-hunt-missing-Idaho-toddler-admit-not-one-clue-whereabouts.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Police have admitted they have ‘not one clue’ as to the whereabouts of a missing toddler in Idaho, despite sonar searches of a nearby reservoir and wolf den.
Two-year-old Deorr Kunz disappeared on July 10 from an Idaho Falls campsite, where he was staying with his parents, grandfather and another family friend.

--According to this article there were 4 people with Deorr, the parents, the grandfather and another family friend. I take it the grandfather is the great grandfather.

Annonymous17 said...

The use of the word "hearsay" is troubling to me. It sounds like the police confronted them with the statement of a witness who saw the truck and a "gentleman" (I bet she got that word from the police) with a blonde kid. Not only is the use of hearsay here inaccurate (a witness statement is not hearsay until it is offered in court to prove its truth), but it tells me that this guy has criminal defense on his mind. Non-lawyers don't use that word, and when they do, it's usually an inaccurate usage and it's from a defensive position.

Anonymous said...

Jessica: "We'll continue to look until he is found. "We don't care how long it takes..."

Are you kidding me???? You "don't care" how long it takes when every moment your child is missing is a nightmare for him AND for you??!

IMO, this is setting themselves up to continue looking and looking, KNOWING he will not be found. But that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong. Don't think so though.

Sus said...

I like how the mother talks to her son - one simple sentence with one simple goal - "until we get you home." She speaks to a possible kidnapper as if her son is alive, also. She asks them to drop him off where others will see him and bring him home. She repeats getting him home. That's her goal. I can't see her being involved in Deorr's disappearancce.

I'm not certain about "Daddy." That's a lot of talk "to" a little boy. He introduces others loving Deorr and a nickname (Buddy) to convince. I waver about "daddy." It can be to convince the audience, or then again it can be to reassure Deorr. i was trying to recall if I do that, and I do...when I text my youngest Grandaughter (4). I figure she'll recignize the word out of all the other letters she can't read. :-)

Peter Hyatt said...

Sus,

this is, perhaps, the most difficult analysis I have done to date, given the amount of sample to work from. I can blame poor interviewing, but that only goes so far. I have concerns, but need more.

Peter

Sus said...

I understand why the parents haven't spoken out more up to this point. The nature of the search has been on the campsite area. I will not be so understanding if they do not speak out today...maybe tomorrow, after the sherrif's press release yesterday.

Anonymous said...

Family and friends have set up a Give Forward page to raise money for the search efforts. "These funds will be used to increase resources for searching, expenses of missed work for DeOrr Sr & Jessica, food and water for those still out searching and anything else that comes up that will help find little DeOrr."

Interesting that first item listed is "increase resources for searching," now that the authorities have scaled back.

https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/wnf9

Sus said...

I hope that's exactly what the parents are doing right now - bringing in their own searchers. I want to hear about their "confidence" in the search now.

Beyond the linguistics, there were four adults at the campsite. That means all four were in on Deorr's disappearance if it was more than an accident. Highly unlikely. If it was the father alone, he had a tiny window to accomplish it. Very tiny.

I agree the father shows sensitiviy around certain areas. I'm just not convinced it's about doing anything to Deorr. Could be, but I'm not there yet.

Oftentimes I can't help but look at things from my psychology background. My first impression of the father was he was criticized (read possibly emotionally abused) as a child. He spends a lot of time defending his choices. I was not surprised to see his father quoted in People magazine stating the opposite of him. This dynamic is playing into his language. It seems the mother lets him take charge, but not this time. It's like, "Uh uh, you're not finding my son. I'm calling for help."

Until I hear more from them...

Anonymous said...

It seems to me Sus, that; #1, you are forgetting that little DeOrrs' MOTHER was also missing from the campsite for at least forty-five minutes, right along with her hubby and badys' daddy, THEN another twenty minutes wasted before she attempted to call for emergency searchers.

And #2, neither did SHE make sure little DeOrr was being watched before they took off on their long excursion, leaving NO ONE in charge of caring for the baby. So what's HER explanation?

John mcgowan said...

Peter,

I think, (i may be wrong) did you say that this was one of the most challenging analysis that you have addressed?

% wise, and the language used. I will tip my hand towards guilty knowledge. Be it, guilt through nefarious reasons, (note my order) or, guilt of not protecting their son, if, he has been abducted and they?

Sus said...

I don't have an explanation for her. I can't speak for her. I can follow her language which shows no guilty knowledge.

John mcgowan said...

Missing Idaho toddler Deorr Kunz Jr., case takes odd turns, still no Amber Alert

http://www.examiner.com/article/missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr-case-takes-odd-turns-still-no-amber-alert

C5H11ONO said...

John, in the article above, it states that no polygraph was given, although the parents volunteered to take one. This means they haven't taken polygraphs. I don't understand why the police doesn't say, "The parents are not suspects". Saying that "they are solid" doesn't give me confidence that they have spoken truthfully to police. I think the parents went off thinking that their baby was napping and when they returned found that he was gone. He may have wandered off, but for how long? The fact that they are focusing on a reservoir makes me think that the police believe he is dead, having drowned in water. If it is a fast running current, he may wash up elsewhere. I think this is very sad. I hope they find him.

Anonymous said...

Question, would cadaver dogs know the difference between cremains and the toddler's scent? It was reported that there were hits near the reservoir. But also reported

"Crews have spent dozens of hours focusing on the Stone Reservoir after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. On July 17, Bowerman told HLN his office learned someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

"It's pretty disappointing," Bowerman said during the HLN interview. "Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we're searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area." -http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=35592900

Were the search dogs EVER able to hit on the boy's scent at the campground? Did the boy even make it to the campground? Could this all be a big alibi building story?

If this happened at the beginning of the trip, during camp set up, is it possible that Grandpa and friend arrived by separate vehicles and he never really saw the toddler? If so it would be natural that he would assume he was with the parents.

Kinda speculative, I know. But I do find it odd if the dogs didn't hit on his scent at the campsite.

There were references at another feed of the father mentioning Snake River in an interview, but I was unable to find the actual interview. Good local coverage can be found http://www.ktvb.com/search/DeOrr%20Kunz/

Anonymous said...

@Annon 5:12 Snake River is in the 15 min interview, not an additional interview.

John mcgowan said...

Hi, C5H11ONO,

LE have been careful not to show their hand. However, recently, within their language, they have given us subtle indications, that they, themselves, are starting to doubt the events of that day.

Most recent.

""I don't look at them as suspects at this point in time," the sheriff noted.

Before this. We have.

Parents not suspected in disappearance of Idaho toddler

Snipped:

"We interviewed the family," Penner said. "I'm good with them and they're good with me."

Distance noted.

This is not to say they have played any part in DeOrr's
disappearance. I'm just noticing the subtle language change when a update is released.


According to investigators, Kunz Sr. and Mitchell have offered DNA samples and are willing to undergo lie detector tests.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=35519816

Anonymous said...

Why wouldn't she say the store? What do you think she should say? Her husband prob told her he was at the store

John mcgowan said...

Drone to be used in search for missing toddler

SALMON, Idaho -- The Lemhi County Sheriff's Office plans to use a remote-operated drone to help with the search for 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr.

Chief Deputy Steve Penner says the Twin Falls County Sheriff's Office will begin flying their drone Wednesday in an effort to cover areas that are difficult to access on foot.

Despite intense efforts by searchers with tracking dogs on the ground and divers in the water, investigators have found no trace of the toddler, who disappeared during a family camping trip on July 10.

After more than a week of searching Stone Reservoir, Penner said he feels confident that they will not find the boy there, but says they still plan to keep checking it daily.

He says they have looked into the possibility that DeOrr may have been taken by a wild animal. On Monday, search crews spotted a wolf chasing a couple deer in the area, but they have not found any evidence of an animal attack.

Penner says the sheriff's office will keep searchers in the area for the foreseeable future and added the investigation is still in full force.

Subjective internal dictionary?

Detectives have re-interviewed everyone who was in the Stone Reservoir and Timber Creek areas the day DeOrr went missing. In addition to Twin Falls County, the Bonneville County Sheriff's Office has also been asked to help with the investigation.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/21/lemhi-county-sheriffs-office-calling-in-air-support/30466883/

Jen Ow said...

I question the idea that cremated remains would cause cadaver dogs to alert?

I'm certainly no authority on the subject, but cadaver dogs alert to cadaverine...the chemical compound produced during the putrefaction of soft tissues.

It seems unlikely that the smell of cadaverine would be present in cremated remains, after hours of exposure to direct flame and intense temps, which reduce the remains to dust.

Hmmm, I'm going to do some research.

John mcgowan said...

Snipped:

In a phone call today, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman confirmed that some person scattering human remains in the area did contaminate the search area. The scent of the remains threw off some of the search dogs, leading the trackers on a false trail.

Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

The sheriff also stated that at this time he does not consider the parents to be suspects in the child's disappearance. He confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

Anonymous said...

Anon @5:12, IMO you have raised some excellent questions; not so much speculative as questioning facts that we are unaware of at this point.

For instance, we don't know if Sheriff Bowerman or Deputy Penner has interviewed in-depth the great grandfather and his friend who was camping with him or the clerk in the store nearby, or other campers in the area. I don't really care much for the term "keeping it close to the vest" but apparently this sheriff IS keeping some info close to the vest and is quietly investigating matters that have not been made known to the public. We don't even know at this point whether the child was actually with the parents when they first set up camp or when they set up camp.

John makes excellent points in showing how statements concerning the parents as made by the sheriff and deputy has changed from interview to interview. I do believe that both parents are quietly being investigated as suspects in little DeOrrs disappearance. There's a lot about these parents that we don't know and a lot of missing info that the public has not been made privy too.

Jen Ow said...

I can't find anything that specifically addresses their ability to detect cremains. (Probably because there is not much need for such a service, lol)

While it seems strange for the reasons I already stated, the cremains are made up of bones and cremated human tissue, so I guess it's legit. What a strange coincidence for someone to be dumping cremains in that area during a search and rescue operation though!

Sus said...

I've been reading the cremains (never heard of that word) with interest. We scattered my husband's grandpa and lady friend's ashes over their favorite fishing holes, per their request. Besides a farm pond and river, one was a town reservoir. I bet a lot of people request that in rural areas, don't they?

Apple said...

John said
"He confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public."
-----
Easy to state they passed the polygraphs. But he didnt.

Jen Ow said...

I think it's pretty common. We spread my Dad's ashes at one of his favorite spots that we always called 'The Cascades'. We spent a lot of time there growing up. He took us there nearly every Sunday after church during the summer. We'd get a bucket of chicken and some snacks, and spend the day wading in the water, fishing and hiking. He loved to take us there, and it felt like a perfect place to spread his ashes.

Jen Ow said...

Bingo!

trustmeigetit said...

I don't know why they can't just address the 6pm sighting clearly.

Mom called 911 at 2:28 (according to one article) and LE arrived about an hour later.

So there's no way the child could have been with the father at the store at 6pm. He sure didn't leave with LE there.

So that would give some serious credibility to that sighting.

The lack of interest is where I'm concerned.

It's reminiscence of the McCanns


And all the talk of "accidental death" I'm trying to imagine how. Since normally an accident would just result in rushing the child to the hospital regardless. It has to be more or accident while committing a crime.

I like to have theories as it helps me listen for possible leakage.

Juliet said...

Forensic Cremation recovery and analysis, Scott I Fairgrieve

'In my own experience, dogs trained specifically in the recognition of human decomposition scent can detect human cremated bone. Surprisingly, even cremated bone that is largely calcined (ie most organic components eliminated), can also be detected by properly trained canines.'

---
That's a tiny excerpt, found on Google books.

Apple said...

Jen Ow,
I just learned a new word: cremains!
Peter, i am excited to read your synopsis and conclusion. I want to learn!!

Juliet said...

Trustmeigetit - how do we know the father didn't leave the campsite again later? He doesn't say that he didn't, only that they were with search and rescue until a quarter to four. Then he says, 'WE didn't, WE never, haven't, left the camp since one o' clock that afternoon'. He doesn't say that HE didn't leave alone, just that they didn't leave. Hopefully, LE know if he left again, or not - his denial seems pretty iffy,

Sus said...

I'm sorry, I cannot find it now, but I read an article where the sherrif spoke to the county board. He said the tracking dogs kept coming back to the campsite.

Secondly, if they're not looking at other angles like criminal backgrounds now that would be surprising.

I notice the sherrif says the parents took polygraphs. Is he pointedly leaving out great grandpa and his friend?

Last, why is great grandpa's friend never mentioned? I am rather surprised the parents never even brought him up in some manner in their interview.

Anonymous said...

So these people were camping in the wilderness....they were the only campers in the area....4 adult could not manage to watch a 2.5 year old toddler....and then bam a child abductor bursts out of the woods at exactly this moment to snatch the little boy....sorry I say bull sh*t !

Jen Ow said...

Hi Apple!

I learned something new too, about the cadaver dogs being thrown off by the presence of cremains! (Thank you for the excerpt Juliet!)

How long will it take for an attorney to try to explain away cadaver hits by claiming someone's ashes were once stored/spread in the area where a dog alerted!? I'm shocked it hasn't already happened!

I'm looking foward to Peter's synopsis as well. This is a tough one. Lots of unexpected language, and self editing from Dad, and lots of talking while saying nothing.

I usually come to a pretty quick conclusion about what I think happened, but with this case nothing seems to fit perfectly.

I started out thinking maybe the baby was never even there, but it's hard to believe that Great Grandpa, and his friend would go along with such a cover up.

Then again, we still don't have some of the basic timeline information. Did Gr Grandpa and his friend ride with them, or did they arrive later? Did they ever actually see the baby, or where they just told 'he's laying down for a nap'?

Why is the friend never mentioned? (In the parents account, or by L.E./media.) As far as I know, the friend has not even been identified to the public. Questions, questions, questions!

Lily said...

Interesting about the polygraph. It seems to me that if they passed, LE would be happy to release the results to further bolster that the parents aren't suspected. Hmmmm.

ima.grandma said...

SHERIFF REPORTS TO COMMISSIONERS 7-13-15 LMS

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told the Lemhi County Commissioners Monday, July 13, that based on the intense and extensive search conducted near Leadore for two year old Deorr Kunz Jr., it doesn’t make sense that the boy was not found.

Bowerman said the trained search dogs found nothing and kept coming back to the camp. Helicopters were used day and night to fly the area and fly over Stone Reservoir which is shallow enough to see to the bottom. He said divers explored the lake while approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek. The possibility of abduction by bear, wolf or mountain lion is not being ruled out although no trace of the boy or his apparel, which included oversized cowboy boots, was found.

The small boy disappeared Friday, July 10, from the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir. Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.

Commissioner Chairman Rick Snyder described the area where the family was camped as being at the lake’s outlet which is very steep with very fast moving water flowing through brush and trees and limbs, all of which were pulled apart by searchers. Bowerman said people in wet suits were in the creek searching every hole. 

The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.

http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

trustmeigetit said...

Search and rescue was only there for an hour?

trustmeigetit said...

This video has a video of the exact area the family last saw Deorr for those that are visual. Didn't realize how close they were to water.

But if the child fell and drowned it's not a means to cover it up. It's an accident so I'm not convinced.

Sus said...

Thank you, ima.grandma. That's the article I saw. It's great seeing you on here. I've missed you...especially since we're one and the same. Haha.

Juliet said...

trustmeigetit - no, the dad says they were with search and rescue till a quarter past four, - it wasn't search and rescue who left.

Anonymous said...

C5H11ONO -- the sighting at the Walmart is a different sighting than the 6pm sighting at the convenience store at Leadore. The Walmart sighting has been ruled out by the police via video surveillance. I have not heard if the 6pm sighting has any credibility to it, but the father blowing it off is bizarre since he insists little Deorr was kidnapped and the sighting was several hours after he went missing.

Juliet said...

I've been doing some Facebook stalking, and discovered the photo of DeOrr standing in front of an expanse of water was uploaded August 14th, 2014, by grandmother Clegg, and was taken at Blackfoot Reservoir. It is one of only two of DeOrr on her page, amongst hundreds of his two young siblings. The other photo is odd - it shows only the back of DeOrr's head towards the camera, and he is being stared at by a young male who is sitting on a rock with a rifle. In other photos the man is showing the two siblings how to look through the scope of the rifle. It's an old photo, so I wonder why it was used, when the good ones from his mother's page suffice, and are recent .Deorr is almost a year older now - it wouldn't help greatly in identifying him, plus it's out of focus, and blurred. Perhaps she is a step grandparent to him, or grandmother Clegg is mother to the siblings' father, and no relation to DeOrr, thus the lack of photos/possible interest/contact, though she is described as his grandmother in news reports, saying 'he appears to have vanished'. Well, appearances aren't necessarily everything. Just putting that out there, in case it might not be as irrelevant as it seems.

---

What I intended to post: do we know the grandpa's friend is male, or are we just assuming that? This also may not be relevant, but it's still interesting. Friend of grandpa, family friend, but does it say anywhere that it's a man? He's under a lot of suspicion for someone who may not even exist.

Anonymous said...

It is my understanding that the dad went back to the store with the dirty boy the same day they arrived to the campsite. Is that correct? If so, what could they possibly have needed so badly that they'd drive back out to get it? Candy? That's all? Whatever happened to the boy, if he was ever at the camp (which I doubt), happened between that store and the campsite. The dad acknowledges that he and the boy were there, but is seeking to minimize / discredit it, because the problem is that he knows it looks really sketchy for him to have been at the store w/ the kid since so soon after arriving to the camp.

Anonymous said...

P.S. I hate the term "cremains." Cremated remains! It reminds me of combining two celebrities' names when they are dating/married. Cremains is the "Brangelina" of the funeral business.

Anonymous said...

The dad says they didn't leave the campsite after 1:00pm or some such time (I can't recall if 1 is the correct time but you know what I mean), but he and the mom DID leave the campsite to go do whatever it was they were doing. Plus also, he sped away from the campsite to go find a better signal... even though he had never been to that area before and really had no way of knowing he'd actually find a better signal.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, why would he drive off to get more bars on the cellphone without trying first? And why did he claim they were only gone "exploring" for 10-15 minutes and then searched for him for 20 minutes and then called 911? On the 911 call the mom said he had been missing an hour. 1/2 hour is a huge difference when a baby is missing near water. I got a very bad vibe from watching the parents on the extended interview. The way the dad kisses ass to law enforcement in the interview and praises them to high heavens really makes me wonder.

Anonymous said...

I feel bad for the grandfather because he probably feels responsible and he is probably being used as a scapegoat and cover. I think the parents are involved.

Anonymous said...

I hate the word cremains, too! Craisins too.

Juliet said...

Yes, they went to the store the day they arrived, the Friday. The father said they went to pick up a few things. Neither parent claims the boy, the candy, or the six o clock sighting, saying it was earlier. They were setting up camp when DeOrr went missing, and had been to the.store before that. They don't directly deny the boy or the candy, it just was earlier whilst also being rumour and hearsay. It must have been before one, as he says they didn't leave the camp after one,,,though he also says that he, himself, went down the road after two-thirty in order to make the emergency call.

Yes, if anything happened (presuming Deorr was alive and present), it would have to have been between leaving the store and the emergency call made at 2.36, by which time, the mother said DeOrr had been missing for an hour. The parents say they were absent for ten or fifteen minutes, and that they searched for twenty minutes, which accounts for thirty five minutes - they may not have been watching the time, and approximating everything, maybe also minimising it, including how long DeOrr had been missing - the unaccounted time might be simply due to their losing track of time.

I agree ' cremains' is an awful term - great shorthand, though. :)

Rose City, Oregon said...

I have determined that Trina Clegg is definitely the mother of Jessica Mitchell. The "great-grandpa", Jessica's maternal grandfather and Trina's father, (age 76 in January of 2015), is named Robert C. Walton. DeOrr's older two siblings live with their father, Brennon Birch, who has had full custody of his children since at least October of 2013. FWIW.

Anonymous said...

Rose City, thanks for the info. Do you have any info on why Jessica doesn't have even partial custody of her 2 older kids? Thanks

Juliet said...

Rose City, that's baffling - hardly any DeOrr photos on her page, one poor and out of date, one disturbing (to my mind). Perhaps there are other albums not open to public view, it's easy to jump to conclusions. The sibling photos look to have been taken on holidays -perhaps she has care of them out of term time. Perhaps three young children are too much to cope with so DeOrr is not included, or just that he's still a baby and too young to be on those holidays. It's odd though, because it's just mobile uploads -.that's just the latest random snaps from a phone, isn't it? I'd expect a grandparent to have at least a few of each of a sibling group -.though they are not living as a group, and maybe she doesn't get to see DeOrr for some reason.

Anonymous said...

Any word on who the friend of Jessica's grandfather who was on the camping trip is? I can't find any info about this person at all.

BGirl said...

If Jessica doesn't even have partial custody of two of her other children, and something happened to Deorr on his way back from the store, well that's motive right there. She might have (not for sure) supervised visitation for some reason (which if they are involved could be a very good reason) and you automotive right there. Add to that if they had an element of drugs "exploring" to it, it would be enough for a cover up in my opinion.

BGirl said...

Motive not automotive

John mcgowan said...

Facebook post circulating about child’s disappearance as search is scaled back

There is a post circulating on Facebook reported to be from a man who says he could help in the search for a missing 2-year-old boy, DeOrr Kunz Jr.

The post, which is said to have originated on KTVB’s site, says, “If you would let me, I could help. A friend might have something to do with it. Your looking for a teenager who may of took him. Good luck, and god bbless you all.”

Officials with the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office said Tuesday that they are aware of the post, but none of those looking into the child’s disappearance were available to comment about its legitimacy or whether or not they were following up on it.

Authorities in east-central Idaho announced earlier this week that they are scaling back the search for the child who went missing this month during a camping trip with his family.

The Lemhi County Sheriff's Office told KTVB-TV (http://bit.ly/1fhJZkA) in a story on Monday that the decision comes after a 10-day extensive search in the Stone Reservoir area near the town of Salmon.

Kunz went missing on July 10. A missing person report was filed at about 2:30 p.m., and crews using a helicopter and search dogs immediately began looking for the boy.

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman says the parents are not suspects.

Investigators say they haven't ruled out an abduction by strangers or possible involvement by wild animals.

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/facebook-post-circulating-about-child-s-disappearance-as-search-is/article_462fa72e-3039-11e5-a81d-9b5deb717c34.html

BGirl said...

Another thing that bothers me.
I am not trained in SA as most of you fine commenters are (much props to you!!)
But I have read this over and over and then thought about my own experience with my son at Lowes (that was me). I reread what I wrote.

I can't help but notice that when "C" disappears, vanishes, what have you - that I kept repeating the word "aisle" over and over and what Peter says about the cluster of blues.
If that is correct, since the last place I had seen my son was the "aisle" making it sensitive, wouldn't it be likely that the last place Deorr Sr. saw little Deorr would be the "truck"?

Forgive me if I am totally off here.
This whole situation is so disturbing to me, and makes my stomach just turn. I could
be completely off, just trying to make some sense of it all.

Another thing that bothers me is that Dad is in control of the interviewer AND mom.
He is giving the information- the way he cuts her off is almost like he doesn't want her "FACTS" to screw up his "STORY", and so they have one version of events.
Everytime she is going to answer she looks to him. And he allows her to continue, corrects her or answers for her.
I know husbands and wives will do that - but I don't think these two have been together that long yet.

Me thinks they need to split them up, have them take polygraphs.

BGirl said...

John M. From what I understand the FB post was supposedly from a psychic and the LE had looked into him. I guess it happened a week ago according to FB posts, idk.

BGirl said...

Another disturbing thing is the father of Jessica's other two children, Brennon Birch, has a profile picture up on his FB page with a picture of his children with Deorr at what looks like a birthday party (cake) with the caption "Ohana means family, and family means no one gets left behind, or forgotten....."

I am suspecting that he is thinking that things aren't what they seem either.

Also notably disturbing is his FB posts on the day of the disappearance, that it was HIM who got ahold of the news outlets to let them know what was going on, and that he was told "they had enough searchers" but sent people out that way anyway and even offered to pay for a second helicopter out of his own pocket.

He also tells us that he broke the news to his children a few hours ago that Deorr is missing.

I hope LE speaks to him.
He seems like a very good father.

The more I read and uncover....
Something REALLY stinks here - just saying.

John mcgowan said...

Thanks, BGirl

BGirl said...

No problem, John, thank YOU for all of the info!!!

Juliet said...

BG - Jessica may have not wanted custody, or been in a position to raise her kids, or maybe she thought they'd be happier with their father. The grandfather said that little DeOrr and his parents had been living with him for the past eighteen months, so without their own place they wouldn't be able to accommodate the other two - there could be any number of innocent reasons why she doesn't have custody. She obviously has access to them, as there are photos of them with DeOrr from birth, on her page. I stalked the siblings' dad FB, and it's plain he adores his kids, and in his most recent post was upset to break the news to them, just a few hours ago, that their brother is missing. He joined the search for DeOrr and got extra search and rescue from other areas involved. Good guy, but he'd be better without the guns, imo

John mcgowan said...

Apple said

"Easy to state they passed the polygraphs. But he didnt."


This is so true. People do not hide truth or hold it back. Especially in situations as this.

Juliet said...

Ah, Bg, you already posted about the other dad - that photo I think means he is very upset and angry about what has happened to DeOrr, and the impact this is going to have on his children, whom he says love their brother very much. It must be so heartbreaking for them all - let's hope they have answers soon. Ima gradma's post, and other news updates, seem to be saying it's going towards becoming a criminal investigation now.

BGirl said...

I agree about the custody, Juliet- it could be anything. Where I live however, if a mother has a child, or multiple children and needs housing, the state helps them out to find them affordable housing they need and pays for it until they get on their feet. I am a landlord, so I see this all the time.
But you are right - trying to still not be judgmental but things stink.

The bio father of the oldest children I agree is heartbroken over their siblings disappearance, and probably angry.
I take that profile picture and caption as two ways.

1. He posted it as you said, he is heartbroken and angry and making sure it is known to all that Deorr was a part of his family, even if he wasn't his bio father, that he loved him as his own.

2. The caption is also a way of blaming the parents, somewhat subtlety, of being negligent.
"Ohana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind, or forgotten...."
Leaving it open ended.
Meaning family has a different meaning for him and his children, than Deorrs parents.
"Left behind, or forgotten" meaning that he would never leave behind of forget his children the way they did, which means he believe the mother to be negligent.

Two different meanings that I see, just my opinion.

Still want to believe they are innocent, but I am starting to really have my doubts.

ima.grandma said...

Hi Sus. I try to read here every day or at least every couple of days I catch up. I don't comment much anymore. It got so wild in here with the confusing alternates and duplicate personalities. I decided to distance myself and concentrate on learning but admit I am drawn to the missing children cases and can't let it go. I see little Deorr's face in my mind as I go through my day. It is a busy time with all the yard work and the grandkids' activities.

I always look for your and JenOw's comments. Ya'll make so much sense and are able to right a sometimes chaotic setting in here. I feel a kinship with you both after all this time so when I read ya'lls words, it feels personal. Keep on keeping it real.

Anonymous said...

BG, I have had my doubts from the beginning. Still do. Ref my post @ 11:09 yesterday morning, as well as others on other articles prior to this one.

I also question this mother who seems to be in good health, at least able to get around and make a new life; giving up her older children. Or did she do it willingly? In this day and age when women have opportunities in the work force that they did not have once upon a time, and when there are so many state, county and federal programs and shelters perfectly willing and able to help them.

I find very little excuse for a mother to give up her children unless she is in bad health and physically/mentally unable to care for them, or is too uneducated or illiterate to be able to provide for them. OR, had a drinking or drug problem. For them, I find no forgiveness for neglecting and leaving their kids on the mercy of the world.

Years ago we had no such assistance and no help. When I divorced my sons 'ner-do-well, beer guzzling, throw the money away, dad and took my baby with me who was born just three days after my 19th birthday, there was no obstacle in hell that could have stopped me from taking care of him or that could have caused me to leave him.

I was broke and had no formal education at the time, had no family who could help me or financial help from any sources and wound up with him temporarily in a boarding house and with no car. I would have defied hell to keep my baby, and did. Later I did work my way through college with two jobs and set out on a good career, all the while loving and taking care of my son. I don't get it that women today who can get all this help, walk off and leave their kids, for ANY reason; or lose custody of them due to their selfishness and neglect (abuse) of them.

ima.grandma said...

I keep returning to the first day when Deorr Sr. when he says little Deorr is "no longer up the mountain". I think it is a key element of his story.

I am including an earlier post by Foolsfeedonfolly as he/she makes a good point.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...
After Dad made his "no longer up the mountain anymore" statement, I wish the interviewer had asked "Where do you think he is?" I know they've stated they think he's been abducted, but I wish the interviewer had asked that question for clarity. The phrase "up the mountain" bothers me because: a 2yr old can't climb up a steep mountain in less than 10 minutes (much less 2 hours) and yet Dad places Deorr as up the mountain at some point because he says "no longer". Who cares how many people agree with him- why does that matter? It matters to him though, because he tells us the information.

So, how would he have gotten "up the mountain"? It seems illogical that someone would kidnap a 2yr old: and climb up a steep mountain (versus cutting across through the woods and down to an access road to escape); with Grandpa relatively close by (Dad implied that); with zero struggle or noise-even through the child was separated from his beloved blanket and comfort toys (completely out of character for Deorr per Mom); and with no vehicular noise (ATV, 3-Wheeler, truck, car, etc.).


Snipped from the interview:
D: that we don't know is...I come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...

Every time I read the above statement, I am reading between the lines with my gut feelings. He says "he didn't or don't know" five times in this one paragraph. It makes me think he took the baby up the mountain with him and something happened on the way. The way he talks and changes his language with incomplete thoughts makes me think he drove too fast and wasn't prepared for sharp turns or wavy roads. I haven't seen the truck but he coulld have stupidly let him ride in the back and the baby fell out. I still think there was a terrible accident but the above words are important. I believe these were some of the initial public statements after the 911 call. This paragraph needs to be analyzed because there is so much unnecessary explaining. It means something!

Peter Hyatt said...

Does anyone remember a case where we had this much sample, and I was not committed to a strong conclusion?

John mcgowan said...

Peter Hyatt said...

July 22, 2015 at 8:51 AM

Does anyone remember a case where we had this much sample, and I was not committed to a strong conclusion?


Hi "Peter"

I don't recall any. It may have been before i started reading your blog?

Note:

Is this you Peter? Usually, you sign your name (underneath) after your reply's ? The change in language maybe due to time constraints, and or, you being busy. Or maybe, another author? Lol :)

John mcgowan said...

Police admit 'not one clue’ over missing two year old Deorr Kunz Jr on July 10

POLICE have stopped searching for a two-year-old boy who went missing from a remote camping trip with his family on July 10.

For 10 days Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman and his deputies scoured the rugged terrain surrounding the remote Timber Creek Campground near the tiny (70 population) town of Leadore, in the State of Idaho, for Deorr Kunz Jr.

They have used sonar imaging equipment to probe a nearby reservoir, searched a wolf den and Deorr’s parents have volunteered to take olygraph (lie detector) tests. Helicopters, divers, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs and over 300 people on the ground have also been used to grid and search the reservoir, the creek, and the hillsides.

Deorr’s mum Jessica Mitchell suspects her son has been abducted.

“He doesn’t go anywhere without his blanket, his cup or his monkey,” she told East Idaho News, as she clutched Deorr’s blanket. “All three of them were left at the campground.”

“Who would harm US this way?” she asked. “Especially knowing how much he means to us. He’s everything to us.


“If somebody has him please don’t hurt him. Just bring him home safely where he belongs.”

Deorr was reported missing by his mother at 2:30pm on July 10. Jessica Mitchell and the boy’s father, Deorr Kunz Sr, said they left their son with his great-grandfather and a friend of their great-grandfather while they went off to explore. The great-grandfather believed the boy was with his parents, police stated.

What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone remains a mystery.

“We decided we were gonna do a little exploring,” Kunz Sr. told East Idaho News. “It’s such a small area — that’s what a lot of people don’t understand. They just assume, ‘How could you let your kid out of your sight.’ Well, this area is pretty well blocked in and there’s no way you couldn’t not see him.”

Leorr’s family are still continuing to search the area but Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office cut back their search two days ago. There are maintaining a presence in the area to search for clues.

The sheriff told us in all his history he’s never seen anything like this,” Deorr’s grandmother Trina Bates Clegg told East Idaho News “Right now they have ruled out that he has slipped and fallen in to a creek. The creek has been cleared … and (the sheriff) is 100 percent confident that (Deorr) wasn’t in the creek.”

Clegg is among the search parties looking for Deorr. She said the sheriff’s office is cons

Sheriff Bowerman said he did not “look at them as suspects at this point in time.

(Insert in the elephant in the room, But)

“They want to believe he’s abducted because that would make him still alive,” he added.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/world/police-admit-not-one-clue-over-missing-two-year-old-deorr-kunz-jr-on-july-10/story-fnhrvhol-1227452566998

Peter Hyatt said...

John,

neither do I!

the father's words do not add up.

The mother's limited words = neutral; no indicators of deception, but in the interview, she did not convince me beyond a mild tad above neutral.

He uses phrases that suggest extreme sensitivity about him and the truck, and his pronoun use of "we" is alarming.
Yet, his words do not show child abuse, which tells me, if involved, it is unintentional.

Peter

Really

Peter Hyatt said...


“Who would harm US this way?” she asked. “Especially knowing how much he means to us. He’s everything to us.


The above are attributed to the mother and are NOT expected.

Peter Hyatt said...


“Who would harm US this way?” she asked. “Especially knowing how much he means to us. He’s everything to us.


The above are attributed to the mother and are NOT expected.

Anonymous said...

"Especially knowing how much he means to us." And how would some random kidnapper know that? Mom suspects (or knows for a fact) that someone very close to her is involved.

Anonymous said...

"there’s no way you couldn’t not see him.” Triple negative?
Maybe he was hit/backed over by the truck?

John mcgowan said...

Hi, Peter

In your experience of analyzing 1000's of statements in cases of this ilk, or similar. Have you (professional disclosure i respect) come across a case with so much ambiguity? "Red flags" then, expected "truthful" language

Thanks

ima.grandma said...

Snipped:
The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.

This is the sheriff reporting to the Board on the 13th. He would most likely tell the Board info he would not tell the media. It is reported "further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved". This tells me they probably had their suspicions from the very beginning. There is also a reason we have heard practically nothing about grandpa's friend.

We need to stay concentrated on the WORDS.

John mcgowan said...

Hi, hope you're doing well

ima.grandma said...

It is reported "further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved"


Note the passivity "of those involved"


Anonymous said...

Excellent post, I'maGrandma. Thank you for reminding us (me) about daddy DeOrr's statement, "he's any longer up the mountain!" Good golly!!! What a slip of the tongue!

I do question however, that little DeOrr met with some sort of accident as it would be too easy to call 911 and report the accident without having to hide it and become a suspect in your child's murder. Better to have to explain yourself in a negligent homicidal accident than a murder, right?

Anonymous said...


Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

"evidence...if a trial"

Sus said...

I just want to caution those researching. Jessica Mitchell's mother is Trina Bates Clegg as there are two Trina Cleggs. There seems to have been an enstrangement between the two since Jessica's been with Deorr. The father of her first two children was included in family pictures. Not Deorr. Did anyone notice Jessica's first comment on support was about her mother? More so than the search and rescue.

Yes, Jessica's ex says he called two counties to send their search and rescue. He offered to pay for a helicopter out of his own pocket. He then searched himself. I wonder how that played with the father of Deorr?

C5H11ONO said...

http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
-The sheriff confirmed they took polygraph tests but doesn't know when or if the results would be released to the public. He confirmed that the site was contaminated with someone releasing remains in the area of a deceased relative. It threw the dogs off the trail.

I suspect that the sensitive speaking is a result of the parents leaving their son behind when they went off to explore. Why didn't they take their son with them? He would have loved to explore too. I suspect it was because they probably were going to do drugs. I may be wrong, but it is my impression. Maybe smoke some marijuana or something. I think that they had mentioned that it was his nap time, so maybe they left him napping. I think that one of the parents told the other parent, "he's asleep and we'll be back before he wakes up". The parents returned and he was gone. They feel guilty because they know they shouldn't have done that. The father speaking about the truck on and on and on is because he was probably stoned when he got back to the camp and his "rationale" at the time was get in the truck to get help. Subconsciously it was his way of getting himself out of the horror he was in. His behavior didn't make sense, but if he wouldn't have been stoned, maybe he wouldn't have been doing the weird stuff. Now it's sensitive to him because now that he's not stoned, he is trying to explain it away without coming out and saying he was drugged up and not thinking clearly. I think the little boy got up and wandered away, far away and sadly I think he fell into the creek and drowned. I think the parents claim abduction because it would be better for him to be alive with a stranger than dead. I believe the parents didn't do anything to him, but there is missing information due to something unrelated that lead to the little boy's disappearance.

Anonymous said...

"A recent case involves a two-year old boy, DeOrr Kunz, who vanished suddenly from a reservoir area in Idaho, when his grandparents looked away for a moment."

Is this the first time we've heard that someone "looked away for a moment?" And it wasn't his grandparents [plural] either.

http://kickasstorrents.video/coast-to-coast-am-07-20-2015-unexplained-disappearances-t10972627.html

Anonymous said...

Mother: "He doesn't go anywhere without his blanket, his cup, or his monkey." "All three were left at the campground."

Is that a fact?! I thought they were all three found IN THE TRUCK?

Mother: "Who would harm US this way?" What about the harm to the baby??!! The harm is to US, not the baby. Another slip of the tongue.

Anonymous said...

“It’s such a small area — that’s what a lot of people don’t understand. They just assume, ‘How could you let your kid out of your sight.’ Well, this area is pretty well blocked in and there’s no way you couldn’t not see him.” If DeOrr Sr. believes the area is so small "there's no way you couldn't not see him," how can he think someone abducted him? How could someone take him without them seeing someone in the campsite, if the area is really that small? I know you want to believe your child is still alive but something just doesn't seem right.

Anonymous said...

I think something happened to the child accidentally, because someone didn't see him (even though it was in a small area). Maybe involving the truck?

John mcgowan said...

In regards to possible narcotic use by the parents. As far as i am aware, there is nothing (as yet) in their language that may suggest this?

Anonymous said...

Jezel! This article you posted at 10:32 seems ridiculous, doesn't it, anon; when there has never been any evidence or statement that little DeOrr was ever left with "his grandparents who looked away for a moment?"

He was supposedly left with his great grandfather, claimed the parents; who didn't even know he was supposed to have been watching the baby, according to earlier statements. There were no "two" grandparents there, only the one elder great grandfather and his 'unrelated friend'. Where does this journalist get her info!

The fact is, or at least appears to be; that the parents drove out of there without telling anyone where they were going OR making any arrangements for anyone to watch the baby. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had the baby in the truck with them when they left and came back without the baby without grandpa's knowledge. Oh yeah, I'm highly suspicious of BOTH parents.

I also believe this sheriff and his deputy will not allow themselves to be made fools of, not when they've worked their butts off with numerous searchers trying to find this child. They know there was no accident, no kidnapping, no accidental drowning, no deliberate tossing into the creek, no mysterious abduction, and are cautiously on the lookout for conniving lies. They'll get to the bottom of this, come hell or high water. If it takes them getting angry about being run around in circles for ten days (or is it now 12 days?), I think they will.

Anonymous said...

Snipped:

Kunz, 70, explains to People [magazine] that there was a small window of time in which DeOrr Kunz Jr. wasn’t being watched.

“There’s a four-minute window where no one had an eye on him. My grandson is paying the ultimate price for this.”

The Kunz quoted is the paternal grandfather, not the maternal great grandfather who was at the campground.

Anonymous said...

"In regards to possible narcotic use by the parents" Father comes across as hyper. "Exploring in the woods." Also, someone posted in another blog that Mom signed over custody of her two older children to their Dad because of drug use, but there is no verification of that. (That poster said that his girlfriend was a friend of Mom at the time.)

Anonymous said...

I couldn't agree more, Anon @ 10:50. Another slip of the tongue, marbles again.

Anon @11:00 and C5H; the sheriff has already said there is NO evidence of any accident. This would also apply to the truck having been in an accident or having struck or run over the child. NO EVIDENCE.

The sheriff also stated that he had never seen anything like this in all his history, where there is NO EVIDENCE of any kind. I think this sounds pretty clear, woudncha think?

John mcgowan said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In regards to possible narcotic use by the parents" Father comes across as hyper. "Exploring in the woods."


Hi, Anon

He may come across as "hyper", but, do we know that this is not his baseline (how he talks, everyday). Him being "hyper" as you say, could also be down to numerous things, let alone his missing son, and yes, narcotics, maybe a factor. Be they prescription, or illegal etc. In his language however, up to now, i haven't (some may differ) picked up anything linguistically to suggest it?

Anonymous said...

"Please... in a split second your whole world could be changed and turned upside down forever," Kunz Sr. said. "There's not much to be said. (Just) one small mistake as a parent, leaving him with an adult that turns his head just for a minute. They move. They go. Please cherish and love each other."

Analysis, anyone?

Anonymous said...

How would Kunz Sr., paternal grandfather, know anything about any four minute window of opportunity when he wasn't even there? Duh...

We already KNOW that the parents were off on their "exploration trip", walking, driving (most likely); doping, disposing of little DeOrr, or whatever (not making any implications here as we don't know); for up to 45 minutes according to the sheriff, then fooled around at least another 20 minutes before either of the parents got themselves and their stories together enough to call (or even attempted to call) for emergency assistance. However, since we've heard nothing about any doping, OR disposal of little DeOrr, it's all just idle speculation with no basis for foundation.

At this point, God alone knows how long little DeOrr was actually missing from the campsite, or if he ever was at the campsite in the first place, as we sure don't, NOR does Kunz, Sr! I'd lay odds the sheriff and his deputy are starting to put the time line together though! This sheriff strikes me as a no nonsense kinda guy who leaves no stone unturned.

C5H11ONO said...

Anonymous 11:30 a.m. - What kind of evidence would there be if an unattended child slipped into a fast moving creek?

C5H11ONO said...

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169273/Police-search-wolf-den-nearby-reservoir-hunt-missing-Idaho-toddler-admit-not-one-clue-whereabouts.html#ixzz3gXArngKm

Police have said they ‘don’t have any evidence’ that Deorr was kidnapped.
The family were camping about 40-metres from a fast-flowing creek that empties into the Timber Creek Reservoir.

This article states that the police said they don't have any evidence that he was kidnapped. And immediately after the statement it was indicated that the family was camping approximately 40 meters from a fast-flowing creek.

Anonymous said...

To quote: "leaving him with an adult that turns his head just for a minute" as stated by daddy DeOrr.

Bull hockey. I thought the elder great grandfather had already stated that he did not know he was supposed to be watching little DeOrr. TRue or false?

I do not have the wherewithal to go back and search for this post that reflects the elder great grandfather not knowing he was supposed to be watching the baby and had not seen him; isn't this what he said? I think it is.

Anonymous said...

The police say they have no evidence of anything at all. I hope they solve this soon.

Anonymous said...

Maybe GGF's friend was supposed to be watching the child? Anyway, somewhere among all the posts is one where Dad claims the child was playing with GGF when Mom and Dad went off to explore.

Anonymous said...

C5H, I can't answer your question as I have no knowledge as to how these water related accidents and drownings might occur or how evidence would be sought for or found. But I'd think these rescue searchers would know in every detail.

They DID make a thorough search of the creek bed, the water and into the fast flowing river and beyond. There were many searchers there for a three mile grid area and they found nothing or no indication of any drowning, accidentally or otherwise.

At this point, little DeOrrs' disappearance is a total mystery.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 12:46, I haven't read any statements or prior posts relating to the great grandfathers' girlfriend (or was it even a girlfriend?)

In fact, the question has been raised more than once as to who the friend was who accompanied the elder great grandfather? No one seems to know. Maybe you know something we don't?

C5H11ONO said...

D:.he was over, he was getting ready for a nap, uh say it was almost, by that time it was almost two, and he usually takes his nap, um...we was just, yeah, we decided we were going to go a little exploring, and he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire, we weren't more than fifty..
--they didn’t say that little Deorre actually napped, only that he was getting ready for a nap.
--we weren’t more than fifty what? His wife interjected and said “ten minutes”. I think the wife thought he was going to say fifty minutes. He was talking distance and she was thinking time? When she heard fifty – she was prompted to jump in and correct him or keep him from finishing what he was saying? In fact, “time” was very sensitive at that time. I am almost convinced that they were gone for longer than 10 minutes.

What does he mean by “but for time, we, I, seen him to the point I figured out he was gone and I come back up to the creek and I actually seen, (self-censoring here).
He actually “seen what”? Since Deorre was missing and he couldn’t “see” him? When someone says 'actually' don't they refer to two different items they are comparing. He saw something, but he censored what he saw.

lynda said...

I've actually just went and checked out bio dad of older sibs FB and there is no sign of any posts he has made in regards to Deorr, the search, etc. Am I looking at wrong site? HIS children are on there but nothing since sept 2013. Did he remove all info? Can someone provide a link to the FB that shows all the info regarding search? Thank you.

John mcgowan said...

C5H11ONO said...

D:.he was over, he was getting ready for a nap, uh say it was almost, by that time it was almost two, and he usually takes his nap, um...we was just, yeah, we decided we were going to go a little exploring, and he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire, we weren't more than fifty..
--they didn’t say that little Deorre actually napped, only that he was getting ready for a nap

Hi,

Excellent pick up. I missed that completely!

Anonymous said...

Jessica (the mom's) grandfather was the one on the camping trip and has made no public statements. The paternal grandfather has made statements, apparently based on things he has been told, not firsthand knowledge.

Lynda -- I made the same mistake. Then I found out he actually has 2 Facebook pages, one is more current. He has made several comments. Check out the picture with al 3 kids he made regarding family means nobody gets left behind on 717. Makes me wonder if he has suspicions of at least neglect.
https://www.facebook.com/brennon.birch.9?fref=ts&ref=br_tf

Anonymous said...

The parents have apparently stated that they had not met GGF's friend before this trip, so if they left little Deorr in his care that is rather nutty.

lgjproduct said...

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/

Anonymous said...

I think that maybe they really do suspect foul play and are just acting like they don't for investigative purposes.

C5H11ONO said...

D: fifty yards away and ten minutes, but for time, we, I, seen him to the point I figured out he was gone and I come back up to the creek and I actually seen, there were some things down by there, some little minnows that I thought he would just love, so when I come back up to get him and I yelled over to grandpa, um, where, you know, where is little DeOrr?
The order of what he said is so off order.
1. Seen him to the point he figured out he was gone
2. Came back up to the creek
This means he saw him up to the point he figured out he was gone, then he came back up to the creek (which means he had already been to the creek and this is another time)

3. Seen somethings down by there, some little minnows that he thought he would just love
This second time he goes up to the creek before his son went missing.

4. When he came back up to get him
He reiterates that he came back up to get him, which means there was more than one trip to the creek - before his son went missing.

5. Yelled over to grandpa where is little Deorr

Rose City, Oregon said...

Yes, the mother of Jessica I am referencing is Trina Bates Clegg.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Sorry for my late reply. No, I don't know anything about the family other than what I have discovered on their respective Facebook pages via their own comments.

Anonymous said...

All this talk about backing up, trucks, and figured out he was gone reiterates my suspicion of a truck accident.

trustmeigetit said...

But an accident...is just that. You don't need to hide that. If you accidentally ran over your child you are not going to be charged.

So why then go out of your way to hide the body. Big risk for an accident.

There has to be another reason.

Like with the McCanns one theory was that they sedated the children. So even if the death itself was accidential, an autopsy would have found the drugs in Madelines body.

So There has to be more to this story.

Juliet said...

Where does the mother ask 'who would harm us,,?' It's not in the interview, and I haven't heard, or seen it quoted anywhere besides here, so would appreciate a link if anyone has one.

I just watched the interview again in light of knowing the dad of DeOrr's siblings was part of the search and had organised for additional help. I think that might explain DeOrr Sr's repeated emphasis upon himself as being the father of DeOrr - perhaps he felt overshadowed by his wife's ex being so competent and helpful. How could he not feel inadequate beside him when he and Jessica had lost the one child they have care of, while the other dad is raising the other two kids alone, yet still not only comes out to search for DeOrr, but also goes the extra mile. 'Daddy will find you' (not the other daddy?) He's the daddy. I find it very difficult to think he has done anything to his son, or even that he knows where he is. None of it makes sense.

Rose City, Oregon said...

I just wanted to comment (not placing blame and/or accusing the parents of anything) that I find it troubling that--with the exception of the one interview--DeOrr's parents have not made any other media appearances, mentioned networking with any missing person advocacy groups, or announced any private, upcoming searches planned. I cannot help but be concerned by their apparent passivity.

MzOpinion8d said...

The "ohana means family" quote is from the movie Lilo and Stitch. I don't think he was throwing shade at his ex for DeOrr going missing, but rather emphasizing that the little boy is important to him because he's important to his kids. Just a different way of saying "never give up" is how it came across to me.

I keep wondering if the sheriff saying "not one clue was found" has an extra unsaid part at the end... "not one clue that he was ever there in the first place"...

Sus said...

^^^^^^ Same. I'm waiting for them to speak out. I did notice that Jessica is making and posting missing posters on her facebook wall today, but that's it.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

RE: Anonymous@ 10:25 A.M.


" Anonymous said...


Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

"evidence...if a trial"
July 22, 2015 10:25 A.M.

So glad you brought this forward! I saw this last night and thought "Mmhmmm, so there is evidence." Discussing this statement today though with a family member, it occurred to me that the drones documenting the area for evidence might mean something else. There's no evidence of: an accident, abduction, animal attack, death, decomp, blood, struggle, drowning, or Deorr's clothing/"oversize cowboy boots". Outside of that campground, there's no evidence of Deorr at all. The overwhelming and substantial lack of evidence, is evidence, in itself. The principle is similar to someone cleaning a crime scene with bleach-it's the stark lack of dead skin cells, fingerprints, hair strands, and saliva that evidences a clean-up. These things are common to every person's home/vehicle because we live there, shed there, and touch things.

Therein lies LE's confidence in asserting no abduction, no drowning, no animal attack, no "lost in the woods"= suspended search.

If I were any of the four adults on that camping trip, I'd call Sheriff Dave and arrange a one-on-one chat while there's still a window of opportunity open. I firmly believe that with as much manpower, money, time, community involvement, and emotion invested in this search, LE has been closing doors and locking windows day by day, building a case. Negligent homicide charges trump 1st Degree Murder or Murder in the Commission of a Felony (like child abuse)any day.

Strictly just my opinions here and I'd be thrilled to apologize on this forum if I'm wrong.


Anonymous said...

This may be semantics, but perhaps law enforcement doesn't SUSPECT foul play because they KNOW it's foul play.

Anonymous said...

Boom^^, agreed anon.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Yes, I saw her post on one of the DeOrr missing Facebook pages defending her and her fiance of doing anything to their son. Someone commented asking her if they have contacted the Laura Recovery Center, Klaas Kids, or the Texas Equiisearch for help. She never responded to the comment. If you look at the father's Facebook page, not one mention of DeOrr missing or a pic of him anywhere. I just don't get it. :( Oh, but their are two fundraising sites up (since the 12th) asking for donations.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Yes, I saw her post on one of the DeOrr missing Facebook pages defending her and her fiance of doing anything to their son. Someone commented asking her if they have contacted the Laura Recovery Center, Klaas Kids, or the Texas Equiisearch for help. She never responded to the comment. If you look at the father's Facebook page, not one mention of DeOrr missing or a pic of him anywhere. I just don't get it. :( Oh, but their are two fundraising sites up (since the 12th) asking for donations.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Sorry for the duplicate reply.....

lynda said...

Here is live interview done with sister of Deorr Sr./Aunt to Little Deorr. It was several days ago but it is not "heresay" as so many of the other articles are since she's on camera. Watch both segments because sister has different things to say in each seg.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/missing-boys-aunt-just-please-bring-him-home/30222983/

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

lynda said...

Check out moms FB...no activity for days and today a flurry of pics and posters. I couldn't believe it when I saw dads face on the missing poster. It's actually the same size of the babys!! Keep scrolling down and a new plea that throws out the kidnapping theory again trying to persuade everyone that Deorr could now have different color hair and be dressed as a girl.

This is just TO bizarre.

https://www.facebook.com/jessica.mitchell.1004?fref=ts

Anonymous said...

@lynda...I am getting a Broken Link message when trying to access Mom's FB page. Has it been taken down?

Anonymous said...

If they're still at the campsite, how are they updating Facebook? Must be great cell/wifi service up in the mountains.

lynda said...

Anon....I copied again....https://www.facebook.com/jessica.mitchell.1004?fref=ts

If you can cut and paste? If not, just search for Jessica Mitchell Idaho on FB. Don't know where they are at now...I still can't get over the "he's not on the mountain, and we think he's kidnapped" to, "We are not leaving here till he is found." Ugh. I am hoping this sheriff is the smartest guy around even tho appearing as the dumbest.

Anonymous said...

Mom Jessica Mitchell and dad Deorr Kunz Sr., have taken polygraph tests and been cleared of suspicion. Police have elected not to release results of the lie detector tests to the public, however.

http://www.examiner.com/article/missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr-parents-foul-play-not-suspected

Rose City, Oregon said...

Keep in mind, the Examiner is not mainstream media. I would not trust it unless it has been reported by a nainstream nedia source.

Rose City, Oregon said...

*media

Anonymous said...

Examiner article cited at 9:10 pm above refers to WIDK. However, they probably mean KIDK, which does not say exactly that.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Exactly.

John mcgowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John mcgowan said...

Snipped:

Tanisha Kunz, DeOrr's aunt, spoke on behalf of the parents.

She says at this time they don't want anyone up there because the divers need to be focused on their search efforts.

"We are granting their wishes and staying down here so that those divers can be completely focused on finding that little boy if he is in there, and that is why we are down here and we are doing our part
by searching farther down," said Tanisha Kunz.

DeOrr Kunz went missing last Friday. His parents say they thought he was with his grandpa, while the grandpa thought he was with them. They say he was missing for about 10 to 20 minutes.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else notice this particular part of the 911 call?

The Dispatcher asks: "How tall is he?
(Mom slow to answer)
Dispatcher has to ask: "Hello?" to make sure Mom is still there
Mom: "I,I'm not exactly sure, he's about three..."
(she trails off).......
Dispatcher has to ask again: "Are you there?"
Mom: "Yeah."
Dispatcher: "OK."
Dispatcher stops and waits, almost like she is hearing something happening in background of Mom's phone
(Note in the dispatch office you can hear someone else taking a call, and Mom is distracted during this same time and doesn't speak)
Dispatcher then asks Mom: "IS YOUR HUSBAND CALLING TOO?"
.......no answer, then comes faintly
Mom: "Like all down where we were camping at and we can't find him at all."
"OK, hang on."

It just makes me wonder if Dad was right there with her while she was making her call, maybe orchestrating what she should say, and maybe making his call from there too - NOT hightailing it in the truck to get a signal at that moment like he claimed.

Listen starting at about the 1:33 mark and see what you think:

[url]http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call-reporting-missing-toddler-released/34192558[/url]

Juliet said...

'Life is so hard without knowing if you're ok Lil Man!! Mommy and Daddy and all of our family miss you so much!! We will search and search and won't stop until you are back in our arms! I miss you Baby Boy!! — feeling numb.'

Jessica Mitchell Facebook status posted an hour ago.

-------

(Here endeth the stalking.)

Anonymous said...

"Life is so hard without knowing IF you're ok" Does that also mean that life would be easier if they knew he wasn't okay?

Did they really mean "Life is so hard without knowing THAT you're ok"

Anonymous said...

The snip from the Aunt above is from July 16.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/missing-boys-aunt-just-please-bring-him-home/30222983/

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:14
I would not be surprised if that is what really went down. The dad seemed very controlling in the interview, constantly interrupting, not letting Jessica speak, etc. The whole deal about him driving where he knew there was a signal -- when he hadn't even tried calling though he had one bar showing service on his phone AND had supposedly never been to the campground before (so how would he know exactly where to go for service?) -- was rather bizarre.

GIrl said...

C5H11ONO I agree with John G. excellent post, they didn't say he napped, just that he was getting ready for a nap. And anyone that has a toddler knows that they usually get up anywhere between 6am to 8am (My little "C" does anyway but I'm sure there are some exceptions) by the time 1-2pm comes around he is either bouncing off the walls giggling or (most times) he is in a REALLY grumpers mood. Getting "C" his nap is my priority above all else, especially if we are on vacation. (I have kept him at the beach house where we stay while everyone else has went to the beach so he could sleep and met them later).
I know not everyone parents the same, but it's hard for me to understand why you would leave him with someone else (GGP and friend) while going to explore WITHOUT laying him down first, or taking him with you.
Little "C" is also very attached to mama, to the point that he won't go with anyone but mama when he starts getting tired, so in our case if we left him and went exploring the woods he would be screaming like a banshee until he cried himself to sleep.

So both parents (their words) that he is extremely attached too left him with two people, one who he doesn't know well,to just go exploring the woods before laying him down for his nap?

It's possible that they left him with GGP and friend, and he got out or away from camper, tent and went looking for mom and dad, dad saw him looking ("I saw him up to the point I figured he was gone) and then something happened/he got lost?

And if they are up in the woods getting scrappy signal I do wonder about FB posts.
But I am glad they are posting. The picture with the father is bizarre.


Anonymous said...

I had a dream that a blue/green older model Ford pickup backed over him, accidentally. In the dream, he was standing right behind the tailgate and the driver didn't see him.

Anonymous said...

But you might want to hide an accident if said accident occured during the commission of a crime or crimes...

Anonymous said...

I saw that, very strange that she has Deorr Senior's picture in there too... Possibly her way of a subtle finger pointing at guilt???

John mcgowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John mcgowan said...

It is interesting to see she has started posting articles about LE not "suspecting foul play" On her Fb page

Mmm

https://www.facebook.com/jessica.mitchell.1004?fref=ts

Anonymous said...

"I had a dream that a blue/green older model Ford pickup backed over him." That would certainly be consistent with Dad's repeated use of the words truck, back up, and looking away for just a minute. Did GGF and Friend come in a separate vehicle?

Sus said...

I am sadly leaning toward one or both parents are involved in Little Deorr's disappearancce. The interview did not convince me. The 911 call did not convince me. Thirteen days of silence has.

BGirl said...

Anon @ 6:11 am......subtle pointing at guilt, or trying to show the public that father is devastated, why would you need to show a devastated parent on a missing child's poster though, everyone knows that parents of a child that's gone missing is of course going to be devastated.

Bio Dad of the older two (Brennon Birch) let Mom take their two children camping last year around this time, and he was extremely nervous about letting the kids go with her for a week, bc "they never get to see her."

This is not a mother that spends much time with her older two kids.

Her mother, does, bc they go to her mother's house on the weekends she is suppose to have them.

BGirl said...

Sorry But the never get to see her not "bc,"
Typo!

Anonymous said...

Interesting that Jessica rarely sees her other kids. It's not like they live far away. I wonder if that is her choice or if the visitation is extremely limited for some reason. Either way, that's not good.

Anonymous said...

https://www.facebook.com/FindDeorrKunz/posts/10100434297218667

Rose City, Oregon said...

I agree, Sus. :(

Rose City, Oregon said...

Has anyone on here heard the name Isaac Reinwand? :(

Anonymous said...

Rose City - someone on Websleuths posted a similar name (Issac Irinewald) last night but it was deleted. I figured the name was spelled wrong because I couldn't find a record of anyone in the USA having that name. Supposedly it's the name of the GGF's friend who was on the camping trip. I'm going o check out yur spelling. Thanks!

Rose City, Oregon said...

Yes, it is supposedly the name of the mysterious "friend." I do question whose "friend" he really is considering the great-grandfather is 76, and this guy is 35. Someone who claims to have went to school with him says he is a RSO. That is concerning to me. I hope they are wrong.

Anonymous said...

Looks like he has been in trouble with the law, including domestic violence, theft, stolen property, violation of no contact order, etc.

Sounds like a great guy.

Anonymous said...

P.S. I found that info here https://www.idcourts.us/repository/partySearch.do

MzOpinion8d said...

discounts.us certainly seems familiar with Isaac Reinwand, including multiple cases sealed by the court...

MzOpinion8d said...

Sorry, that auto corrected and I didn't catch it - idcourts.us is the website.

Anonymous said...

I checked the Idaho sex offender registry and didn't find him.
http://www.isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/search_regnam.html

Anonymous said...

By the looks of his FB page, he doesn't appear to be the type that most elderly folks would want to go on camping trips with....

MzOpinion8d said...

Sorry again...I see anonymous had already posted that info, but I hadn't refreshed my page so I didn't see it.

Early on I said I wondered if the "friend" was a RSO, because that seemed to me the most likely reason why his ID would have been so completely blocked from the public. LE knew what people would think if that got out.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Yes, I saw that and noticed the cases sealed by the court. Very concerning, in my opinion. There was also one involving some termination of guardianship or something like that.

Anonymous said...

I am really wondering what the mental health of this GGF is....and if he can be easily convinced of things. Like that he was supposed to be watching Deorr, that he is friends with this Isaac joker, and so on.

Anonymous said...

There is no one whose first name is Isaac on the Idaho RSO list.

Anonymous said...

There is a RSO at same address (including apt number) as Isaac Reinwand.

1260 IDAHO AVE #2, IDAHO FALLS, ID 83402-2867

Anonymous said...

Very creepy.

Anonymous said...

There is another one registered at 1260 Idaho Ave. #4

Anonymous said...

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.499887,-112.036069,3a,75y,123.3h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEF4bf83HT64p6Q8hBnzVZA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

lots of kids must live here - that is very distubing

Anonymous said...

Upper left corner of link says 1251 Idaho, not 1260, but still creepy.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if the "friend" is supposed to be a caretaker ("guardian") for the elderly GGF? Even creepier.

Anonymous said...

if you zoom in, the house number is 1260 - not sure why it says 1251 in the corner - that would on the other side of the street.

Sus said...

I need to clarify that the parents may not have been the perpetrators. They may have covered up negligence. Jessica was very concerned about that in 2010 with her father's history. She didn't allow him near her children so she wouldn't lose custody. Looks like she did anyway.

Anonymous said...

Yet more creepiness:
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/idaho-falls-man-arrested-in-death-of--month-old/article_8728b2b4-fa63-11de-aac6-001cc4c03286.html

Rose City, Oregon said...

Is it even remotely possible this character is a RSO and not listed? I personally do not know much about it. For example, perhaps the list dies not include those who have offended beyond a certain time period?

Rose City, Oregon said...

Looking at the RSO website, apparently prior to 1998 (when the law changed) juvenile sex offenders, who were not tried as adults, were jot required to register. There is a possibility this guys sexual offense crimes were committed as a juvenile, espec I ally consudering his dob is 1980.

Rose City, Oregon said...

*not

Anonymous said...

Sus - what is the history of Jessica's grandfather that she was worried about losing custody of her kids about? And to confirm, what is his name? Thanks so much

Anonymous said...

The only records I found of Robert C. Walton born 1939 are traffic (seatbelt, speeding) and a trespass onto cultivated lands.

What are his other crimes that Jessica could have lost custody for if her kids were around? Were they in other states or something because the above don't qualify.

SFig said...

I looked up the name Isaac Reinwand on Facebook. Only one guy came up. He has a sister so I looked at her page. She is in Idaho and has several friends who have the last name Kunz, though none were DeOrr. So that is a bit of a connection between the families. Although perhaps Kunz is a common name where they live. Isaac does not have a friends list, just a list of followers, only 12 but he does have a post on his timeline from one of the news websites regarding the disappearance of DeOrr, so I do believe this is the right Isaac. Whether he is the person who was with the grandfather or not I don't know. I just wanted to put all that out there for everyone in case it helps any.

MzOpinion8d said...

I believe it was Jessica's father's history that was a problem, not her grandfather's.

I find it interesting that any comments I've seen about custody have said she gave up custody for the best interest of the kids, yet supposedly she was worried about losing custody?

Anonymous said...

So... Mom and Dad are off "exploring", Grandpa is napping, and Myster Friend is babysitting?

trustmeigetit said...


Anon that shared part of the 911 call and the link said "It just makes me wonder if Dad was right there with her while she was making her call"

I had to listen a few times. DAD was right there with mom. It sounds like he was on speaker and the people told him they were on their way. IF that was 911 and that was dad....then that is a blatant lie. However, you can hear them ask the callers name. It did not sound like he said Deorr (dads name).. Sounded like Arnold or Darnell? Could be Deorr is just an odd name and misunderstood. Anyone else able to make it out? But if that was him calling, we have a serious issue.

Then when they ask if her husband was calling too, she doesn't respond and continues talking

Then it is odd enough that her older children do not live with her but the ex saying "they never get to see her" just adds to that concern. Her parenting skills clearly are an issue.

I am really concerned about great grandpas friend. I always wonder how people can allow people like that in their lives ever, much less when they have children. It's another flag.

Anonymous said...

There is another flyer with both of their pictures during the interview on it. It just seems odd to me that they are on the flyers, I don't believe I've ever seen that before. Curious to know who made them?

Anonymous said...

He goes by Vernol or Vernal. In some personal documents I have seen, not Deorr like he uses in laid back settings.

Anonymous said...

but Vernal would be Deorr's father, not Jessica's father.....getting confusing. Who was Jessica worried about she would lose custody of if her kids were around? What's his full name? Where did that info come from? Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Is Vernal Deorr Kunz the name of the dad of little Deorr, and he just goes by Deorr? Since they refer to themselves as senior/junior, and the little ones name is Deorr Jay Kunz I thought the dad shared that same name.

All these Deorrs and grandfathers/GGFs are confusing!

Anonymous said...

Is JM's dad named Vernal?

Anonymous said...

Download and listen with headphones:

http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/15153620/Deorr-Kunz-911-Call.mp3

Anonymous said...

My research shows that JM's dad is named Jerry Jay Mitchell and he is currently in prison. He has a FB page (shows him living in Florida but it's him - he is "friends" with JM). There are comments between him and JM and the mom on his FB.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Regarding Isaac Reinwand, the mysterious friend, on the previoudly, mention Facebook post, they are claiming that his rape charge was reduced to a battery charge (on the court records), and that is why is not on the Idaho RSO list.

Anonymous said...

Vernal real name for Deorr's dad! Close to Darnell.

Anonymous said...

There is a Vernal Deorr Kunz in the Idaho court database, born in 1989. Is that little Deorr's dad? https://www.idcourts.us/repository/partySearch.do

Anonymous said...

Yes, I think that is baby Deorr's dad. I think the grandpa's name is Dennis Kunz b. 1945 (not on the camping trip). All just conjecture - no way to be 100% sure but it seems to fit.

Anonymous said...

wow, this Jerry Jay Mitchell has quite the record - including injury of a child

Anonymous said...

Sorry. Meant close to Arnold or Darnell as mentioned above about background from 911 call. Vernol is close to those 2 names.

Anonymous said...

Peter Hyatt is probably wondering why we all have gotten so much off the track of Statement Analysis for this case. Alas, there have been no official statements made in recent days. I wish there were!

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