Tuesday, July 21, 2015

Part Two of DeOrre Parents' Interview

This is part two of the analysis of missing 2 year old's parents' interview.  Part one is 


There are some concerning things from the father, including the praise of failed searches, his constant change of pronouns and self censoring, and his use of unexpected phrases, such as "dead" (twice).  

There is a highly sensitive portion of his statement regarding him in his truck. 

Analysis showed that there was a disagreement between mother and father (with, perhaps, other family too) regarding calling 911.  Someone in the family did not want 911 called immediately. 

This could be anything from guilt, up to confidence that DeOrre would be found quickly.  The delay is seen in the language and is a sensitive point to the father, though perhaps not to the mother.  Her  911 call did not show deception, nor "guilty" knowledge.  This means that in the call, deception is not there, but it is limited to that particular 911 call, and nothing else.  It is the statement analyzed.  

Here the analysis continues in bold type with emphasis added to the statement for clarity.  

I:  Interviewer
D:  DeOrre, the father
J:   Mother 

I : do you plan to hold a vigil down here? I guess you haven't even thought about it. Do you want the community in Idaho Falls to rally? I know they don't want a lot of people up there.

D: that's what we're not real sure. I don't, yet again, as a father who's very concerned, with the whole family, we'll tell you 'yes, if we can get the whole state of Idaho up there we would love to' - but in such a small area that has been combed and combed and combed, something may have been missed but I don't know. 

The subject has done a lot of 'self-censoring' or interrupting of himself, which may indicate missing information.  It would be interesting to learn if this is his normal speech pattern, but this could only be learned in listening to him on a topic unrelated to the disappearance of his son. 

Please note that he says, "as a father who's very concerned" is a need to persuade his audience that his is concerned.  This is sensitive. 

What makes him feel a need to be perceived as a "very concerned" father, so much so, that he is repetitive with it?

Speaking for himself and for his wife, seated with him, the word "we" is appropriate.  While using "we" as a norm, based upon this standard, the use of "I" becomes very important.  

The pronoun "I" comes in "I don't know", of which context is him not knowing if his son could still be there, but missed since they searched "combed", "combed" and "combed" (3 times).  

The broken "I" earlier, where he introduces himself as a father (see above), this broken "I" is not completed.  

I've been trying,,,I'm gonna be getting with the Lhima HC Sherriff in Snake River, sorry, the Salmon - Snake and River-.Salmon Search and Rescue, to see what their thoughts on everything is, and trust me with such a small area, one hundred and seventy five people, there was nowhere to park, nowhere to walk, there was grid searches up from one end - there's ridges from one side to the other and they're not very far apart, and they was all searched, all the way down to the bottom all the way above the reservoir. The rest itself, not a lot of people know the place. The reservoir itself isn't but maybe a few feet deep. If you're up on top you can see the bottom of the centre. If you're looking at the middle you can see the bottom of it, so everything has been 100% thoroughly checked but nobody can guarantee me 100% so I'm gonna keep looking.
"I've been trying...I'm gonna be getting with the Lhima HC Sheriff" is an incomplete sentence, with missing information. 
1.  "I've been trying", in context, is connected to the Sheriff Dept (law enforcement).  He self censors, and it appears that this may be to avoid a direct lie: 

He did not, at this point in the statement, "try" to contact this specific Sheriff Dept (or Sheriff), so he 'corrects' his information with "I'm gonna", which is future tense. 

This is concerning as it indicates a need to place himself as "with the good guys" in helping.  

Next, we see the word "sorry" in his language. 

In Statement Analysis, we highlight the word "sorry" no matter what the context is, when we are viewing a possible suspect in a crime.  

It could be "leakage" regardless of context. 

It shows up in the language of the guilty. 

An example that comes to mind is Casey Anthony.  Many use this expression politely and it is not associated with guilt; therefore it is simply something we note because:

It often shows up in the language of those guilty of having committed a crime in which they are "sorry", one way or another, for.  This "sorrow" may be for the action, or it may be for getting caught (the consequence). 

If it is leakage, it is likely indicative of an unintended death, as "my son", that is, in part one, we saw that the father referenced his child as "my son" in a critical point in the statement, something habitual child abusers avoid.  

Did DeOrre meet his death accidentally, only to now have his father involved in covering the accident?  It is a possibility. 

One of the reasons I say that if something happened, it was unintentional is due to the appropriate and instinctive use of "my son" but there are other reasons.  Please note:

a.  There is no subtle blaming of the child;
b.  There is no subtle insult of the child, even when talking of his limitations

Guilty parties find strange ways to blame the child, including, "fussy", or "you know teenagers" and so on.  Nothing in the language shows a bad relationship between parents and child.  

If Jessica, his wife, knew of it, she did not show it in her 911 call.  

If kidnapped, "sorry" should be discarded and the sensitivity of the father could be related to the guilt of having to chose the location from which his son was kidnapped.  The sensitivity is there:  the challenge is to learn why.  Responsible parents blame themselves for everything, even to the point of having accepted a job and moving the family to the state where the tragedy occurred.  The sensitivity is not due to guilt of the crime, but of having, overall, been responsible.  This sometimes is the case.  

We remain open and wish the subject to guide us.  The interviewer utterly failed to address the biggest issue, and had a perfect opportunity when the father talked about an eye witness seeing him in his truck.  

Here that is again from Part One:  

Jessica: I just, somebody at the store, um at Leador, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store, said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him, and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only other...

"I just" is stopped.  She does not complete her sentence.  This topic is sensitive to her.  Why?  Since she did not show deception, is she uncomfortable because it makes the father uncomfortable?

"...said that they saw, umm, a gentleman and a younger blood boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him, and he was just bawling, in a black truck..."
Jessica: he drives a black truck.

Not, "my husband drives a black truck" or plainly, "DeOrre drives a black truck..." but "he."

It is not a 'smoking gun' of evidence, but just a tiny element that causes me to pause and wonder.  This case is a mystery.  

DeOrre Sr.: as a family, we went down to get a few things. It was me, but they claim it was at six o clock...that afternoon, evening, but we..were...

Note the immediate "rebuttal" of sorts:

1.  He drives a black pick up truck" answered with:
2.  Not, "yes I do" but "as a family" (plural) "we went down" and then why "we went down" giving the reason why they went down, followed by:
3.  Admission, "It was me"followed by rebuttal:
4.  "but" and to the time period. 

This is not to deny going but to classify it within time, but before time, company.  

Jessica: Earlier, it was earlier that day

DeOrre Sr.: ..with search and rescue until what, a quarter to four..?

Jessica: yeah..

DeOrre Sr.: we didn't, we never, haven't left the camp since one o clock that afternoon, so it's just a lot of hearsay, and..

This statement is very concerning.  

a.  "we didn't" is stopped. 
b.  "we never" is stopped.
c.  "haven't left" is a dropped pronoun, removing himself from this.  

d.  Note the need to dismiss as "hearsay"

This should have caused the Interviewer to ask him if he had driven with his son, alone, at any time in the day.  Sometimes time frames can be mix ups, but it is the responsibility of the Interviewer to ask.  

The poor quality of the interview leaves not only the father in control of information, but leaves the reader with more questions than answers.  It is very poorly done.  

interviewer: was anybody camping round you?

D: that we don't know is...come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...
interviewer: So they could've come to your...

The father's habit of speech is to speak rapidly and lots of self censoring.  We note that this does not seem to change or shift much, from topic to topic.  We note the self censoring coupled with broken pronouns.  It is concerning.  

"I come to hear" is present tense. 

Note the change from "we" to "I" being very important to him:  it is about the area.  It is likely, according to the language, that he is very sensitive about having chosen this spot for his family to camp.  

Overall, he allows for the sound to help conceal someone:

D: they could've come in and you could never know it. The water was not very, it was not a fast running creek, but it is quite loud moving through the logs and things like that, so hearing range is not all that far either..so's you couldn't hear anyone coming up either.

Interviewer: so he was just kind of playing, you guys were doing your thing and then you noticed...

D: he was playing with grandpa

J: he, yeah, he was with my grandfather

The parents relate to him differently.  "Grandpa" is a word a child might use, while "my" shows the biological being more likely.  "Grandpa" often a term of endearment, suggests that the father does not have, at this point, animosity (blame) towards Grandpa.  I wonder if Jessica felt the same.  

********end of clipped section of part one***************************

Jessica: we'll continue to look until he is found - we don't care how long it takes, we, and we think as many people that have shared the story and continue to share his pictures and things like that, if somebody has him, they'll eventually bring him back...and they will come forward with some sort of information.

Guilty parents sometimes say they will "never stop searching." 

D: somebody will come forward wondering where this child has come from. That may not be the case, but it could be, so that's why we're trying to look at this aspect as well.

The use of the word child could:

a.  Be a signal that he, father, was a victim of child abuse in his life
b.  a signal of abuse of the son, which is not consistent with other language 
c.  a signal of fear that a child molester has him 

it is associated with child abuse, but it is in the follow up questions that we learn the details, should the context not tell us. 

I: and you want people to keep sharing?

The interviewer's own inexperience, or nervousness could be the reason for this.  It is difficult to learn and often helpful to have video taped sessions reviewed, something very few enjoy, but most all say helps them grow in their use of the principles of analytical interviewing.  

J: yes, please keep sharing photos.

D: yes. Keep sharing his photos, keep him in your mind, your hearts and your prayers, and just keep looking, keep your eyes open, please. Social media in general, in public just keep your eyes open and keep sharing.

I: tell me about the blanket.

Jessica: this is his blanket. He doesn't go anywhere without his blanket, his cup, or his monkey, and all three of them were left at the campground. And since he..

D: All three has to be with him.

It is not unusual for husbands and wives to finish each others' sentences.  The majority of finishing sentences comes from wives. Here, he is the dominant speaker 

J: Yes.

D: He will trip over them if he has to, but they are going with him, and this is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, that he's been without these things...and that's another reason why we were wondering.

I would have liked to hear the child's name.  If this is an accident/cover up, the guilt can cause such distancing language.  

J: Yes, because this is the blanket that we brought him home in from the hospital, this is his, this is what comforts him and at all times.

D: This is an exact replica of a security blanket, for everybody this is his actual blanket - he does not go anywhere without it, that's our other concern of why.

J: Yeah, and I..

Interviewer: should he be out there and happen to see this, what would you say?

Keep in mind that the Interviewer directed them to speak directly to their son: 

D: We're looking for you, son, and we will find y,oh, and we love you more than anything in the world. You have a lot of people who love you and who are looking for you, buddy, we'll find you - Daddy will find you.

J: We won't stop looking until we get you home.

I: [inaudible].- is there anything you want to add?

J: Just if somebody has him, please don't hurt him, just bring him home safely to us.

Mother introduces "hurt" 

D: No matter what it takes.

J: ..where he belongs. Even if you have to just leave him at a store where somebody else will see him and bring him home safely to us. I don't - just drop him off somewhere where -

D: And if that's not the case..

J: - somebody is at so they can see him and bring him home.

D: And if that may not be the case, I will, we will search for you, and search for you, and search for you, until we find you, no matter how long it takes, no matter what we gotta overcome, we will find you,son.

Next, a synopsis of the case and conclusion of Statement Analysis 


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trustmeigetit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

JJM's record is pretty extensive: numerous DUI's and drug charges, battery and indecent exposure (although those charges were dismissed). He is currently incarcerated though so hopefully he isn't involved.

trustmeigetit said...

Sounds like that would be the caller.

So I wonder if he was also calling 911. Meaning 3 called? Why would you have 3 separate calls?

At least they can now say "we called 911" with out it being flagged.

trustmeigetit said...

Vernal sounds close to the name you can hear.

So IF he was calling 911...that means 3 calls to 911 were made.

A case where saying "we called" would not be flagged in SA!

Anonymous said...

Could be an RSO in another state and didn't register in Idaho. This happens more often than you would imagine...

Sus said...

Jerry jay Mitchell. Felony drugs. Petty stuff before that.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Yes, I think that is baby Deorr's dad. I think the grandpa's name is Dennis Kunz b. 1945 (not on the camping trip). All just conjecture - no way to be 100% sure but it seems to fit.

July 23, 2015 at 6:01 PM

Anonymous @6:01, you're correct. Vernal DeOrr Kunz is baby DeOrr's dad and Dennis DeOrr Kunz is grandpa who was not on the camping trip.

Juliet said...

It's not a great idea to post this guy's name and link him to DeOrr's disappearance on hearsay - he may have a criminal record, but that doesn't make him the family friend - such details don't need to figure in the reckoning once social media goes into lynch mob mode, so it's better to wait for reliable information than go on hearsay. What if he has nothing to do with it? Can we get back to something more like statement analysis per the title of the blog?

I wish I didn't have to keep proving I am not robot, it has made me jump through hoops to post this comment - my seventh attempt, at least!

Anonymous said...

Not sure there were 3 911 calls. Maybe when little Deorr's dad called 911 he used his real first name (Vernal).

Anonymous said...

No. Vernal is baby Deorr's dad. Not JM's dad. Vernal(the baby's dad) was next to Jessica during her 911 call.

Anonymous said...

I believe this is the toddlers dads name?

MzOpinion8d said...

So we never even had the little guy's real name all this time. Wtf. He's DeOrr Jay Kunz. I saw that on the poster earlier and wondered why it didn't say Jr after his name. Because it isn't his name. Sigh...

Sus said...

I brought up Jessica's father as a possible look into her mindset that day. I know from his Facebook that he wasn't allowed to see his daughters and grandchildren. She worried about losing custody if she was around him. I know from the Facebook of the father of her two older children, he didn't trust her with the children.

So we have a mother who has been accused of being unfit to care for two older siblings. Her two year old has an accident at a campsite. Most call 911 right away. Would this mother...and father?

Anonymous said...

There is discussion on a Facebook group under Baby Deorr that says GGF met Friend at an AA meeting.

Anonymous said...

I am wondering if DeOrr Sr was smothered by a helicopter mom? Has a difficult time standing on his own as a man. Just a thought.
Look>> He's such a sweet little guy :(


Rose City, Oregon said...

Is anyone here familiar with this case? If course there are key differences, but many le searches conducted wuthout success. It was a volunteer searcher, I believe, who came across this little boys skeletal remains two weeks after ge "disappeared." The foster family insisted he managed to lea c e the tent while they were sleeping and was likely abducted. I remember this case well because their was a connection to Oregon (I can't remember if they were from Oregon?).


Rose City, Oregon said...

Sorry for the typos on my cell phone.....

Anonymous said...

Not trying to cause trouble but why go from common to given name ' Deorr to Vernal' in background of moms 911 call????

lynda said...

I think I can clear up some stuff. Yesterday, the FB for "Reverse Speech" posted a letter that was sent to him regarding Deorr. It was from a "friend" of Jessica's mom. It was up for a bit but then he took it down as he stated he had gotten a slurry of threats from the family, and one he thinks was from Deorr Sr. himself. He has told LE about it. He did a reverse speech which showed the parents are guilty and posted. After he posted is when this "friend" posted her comment. In essense, it gave background of family. Jess and Deorr Sr. were supposed to move to Utah for job but it fell thru. Jess has been hired by her mother to take care of her father (the grandpa of Jess) whose last name is WALTON. Grandpa needs care as he has failing memory and cannot care for himself. Isaac Reinwand, the one that comes up on FB is a friend of grandpa whom he met in AA. Jessica's mom does NOT like him because of his record and the fact that Jess lets him be around kids. This has caused an estrangement for a bit along with the fact that Jess does not have her older 2 kids. Drugs are part of the problem. the poster also stated Jess mom was concerned that Jess and Deorr took grandpa , or had gramps come up to campground to use as a "cover" or "patsy" to alibi them. Gramps doesn't know what up and is foggy so he would parrot what he has been told or not remember. Gramps is 76. According to friend who made the post, she did it at request of mom. Now, here's even bigger info, the deputy onsite at campground is Jessica's uncle on her mother's side. So her moms brother! That is why after the first day, the other Deputy Sheriff has made all the statements on media and such. Peter, perhaps you could contact this guy thru FB and ask him to send you a copy of letter? I wish a screenshot would have been taken! I would love to hear your analysis of all this new info from the poster.

Juliet said...

Trustmeigetit - it's interesting just how reminiscent of the McCann case this is, and how more similarities have appeared as time goes on. Jessica's words - 'Please don't hurt him' (Kate McCann: 'Please, please don't hurt her.' ) The appeal to leave DeOrr somewhere he could be found - Kate McCann made a very similar if more eloquent appeal. Nothing suspicious there, any parent would make the same appeals. Jessica won't let go of the blanket, and we know about the monkey - Madeleine's Cuddlecat became indespensable to Kate, and Madeleine's favourite pink blanket had been left behind on her bed. Again, nothing odd about comforter items for small children, or the respective mothers' need to hold the items now. It becomes oddly coincidental at the reported 'lack of trace' in the vicinity, with reports that it's forensically difficult to establish if either child was even at the scene (was DeOrr there, or just his blanket?) along with who saw either child, or when. Accounts are confused, conflicting and self-contradictory. Adults are not being as forthcoming or helpful as they could be. The scene has been accidentally contaminated. The police say the parents are not suspects, but few people believe that can be so. They hold candle-lit vigils. Fund raising sites go up within days, set up by or through family; the McCanns need money to search, to assist the family, to meet all the expenses involved in bringing Madeleine home - Jessica and DeOrr Sr. have the same needs, and will also keep on searching until DeOrr is home with his family. In both cases extensive searches are already in progress, the expense of which need not concern the families, no more than the expertise and calibre of the professionals conducting and directing the searches. In reality they do not and will not have the resources, or the energy to keep on searching themselves - life must go on, they can't spend it searching every mountain or every beach in the world, and they know this. In the short term the McCanns refuse to leave the resort where Madeleine went missing, Jessica and DeOrre refuse to leave the campsite - neither set of parents are intending to give up or go home until their child is found. There are tee-shirts (Snake River Printers will print shirts for fifteen dollars - I doubt the parents profit from this). Many posters are circulated, and within days both sets of parents appear to be conducting their searches for their children on-line. A poster showing Madeleine as she would look with dyed hair is made up, and we are also told she may now be dressed as a boy. Likewise there's a poster of DeOrr with dyed hair, and we're advised he may now be dressed as a girl. Here, Sus is going to become suspicious if the parents don't start talking soon, and within an hour or so Jessica makes a FB post which is reminiscent of the sentimental type of writing used by Kate McCann when she is addressing Madeleine in her diary. Life's so hard for me sweet darling angel, let us know you're okay. X It's not yet clear when DeOrr is going to be online to read and respond to his mother's post, nor when Madeleine is going to make the effort to come back and finally put her poor parents minds at rest by confirming that no serious harm has come to her, and to reassure them that even if it had, why would that be their fault?


Anonymous said...

IMO, both of these parents have acted suspiciously from day one. BOTH.

So far they have many strikes against them and none for them. They are crafty but not smart enough to pull it off in the long run.

Buncha losers, and worse. They prove it with every comment they make.

Juliet said...

Sorry, that's a bit of a rant, but that goes with being angry. I'm not suggesting that Jessica has orchestrated DeOrr's disappearance in imitation of Madeleine's, or their subsequent actions in imitation of the McCanns, rather that I would not be surprised to know she is familiar with the case, and that's why there is some unconscious mirroring of it going on. A child is gone, the parents were neglectful, they left him without ensuring his safety, but it also wasn't their fault as someone else was meant to be looking after him - people feel pity and anger in equal measure. They were too relaxed about him, they were on holiday, they apparently thought it was ideal, safe to camp forty yards from a fast flowing creek, not unlike the McCanns finding it safe to leave the patio doors open, just in case the place caught fire while they were out. Always best to be on the safe side. It's like Madeleine all over again, but with a bit of tweaking, so the parents appear less at fault - at least they thought they'd left DeOrr with someone and It was daytime, they weren't off socialising with their friends, just exploring and finding minnows for DeOrr's amusement. And they both joined in the search, only breaking for an interview.

While there are a fair number of parallels, so much could just be coincidence, and most likely is. On the other hand it does seem very much along the lines of Madeleine, but with more protection for the parents written in, so they are more open to receiving sympathy - just think, there were tears, too. This is becoming heartless because whatever happened the parents are clearly devastated - but so, so much confusion. Who was it who said that confusion was good? No idea, except he was wrong.

More weirdness: Jessica,s mother posting ten ways to clean things, and how to make your own insect repellant, amongst the very early posts on DeOrr's disappearance, because it's really helpful to know how to get the grease out of the glass in oven doors when you're up a mountain looking for your missing son and grandson, though I suppose the insect repellant might have had it's uses. People often go a little crazy for a time when someone they love very much dies, and it must be just the same if their baby or grand baby goes missing. But what was she thinking, Oh, my God, the baby's missing - I'd better let all my FB know how to clean their oven doors?

trustmeigetit said...

There would be if someone else was calling while mom was.

If it was dad, then he lied. He said he drive down the road to call.

If it was not dad andvthgeybwere calling 911, it was a 3rd person.

Juliet said...

Indispensable -typo. Any others I probably just can't spell.

trustmeigetit said...

If that poster is correct and grandpa is not all there mentally, then the leaving of their son in his care is alarming.

If they didn't, then they lied.

If the job they moved for fell through, what is their financial situation?


Or possible hoax for money.

Something's off. Not if they would only talk again so we may have more clues

trustmeigetit said...

I agree with Facebook posts. That's how Myra Lewis's family was. Mom was sharing weird videos and posted about having a great day. Her sisters were taking selfies and going out with friends.

Expected is that your world would stop. That moving on would take years with no resolution. To be acting like life is normal and sharing Facebook pics/videos etc is concerning to me.

Anonymous said...

maybe the dogs kept coming back to the camp because thats where D's blanket toy and cup were..from what was said in the grandfathers statement

Anonymous said...

lynda - if that is true...wow, scary. I am getting more convinced that little Deorr was never even at that campground.

Anonymous said...

@lynda...fascinating. So maybe the child was never at the campground? On the generic subject of reverse speech, see this:

Anonymous said...

In the backwards speech cited above, I wonder if "earn against that the massive hills" really was "massive BILLS." It would be interesting to know if there was a life insurance policy on the child.

MzOpinion8d said...

If there was a life insurance policy, his body will be needed to be found to prove his death. If that was a motive, at least maybe then he'll be found.

John Mc Gowan said...

She has started posting other missing persons on her Fb page. Is this a bit to early to be doing this?



Is this the Grandfather? Facebook?


Anonymous said...

Lynda, how reliable is this letter writer do you think....because if Jessica's mother thinks that Jessica and Deorr may have used Jessica's grandfather as some sort of patsy or cover, it sounds like she thinks they are capable of causing the disappearance of baby Deorr and covering it up (??!!)

For her own mother to think something like that....holy shite, that is intense.

John Mc Gowan said...

Reverse speech


Anonymous said...

Great Grandfather who was with them at the campground is Jessica's maternal grandfather. His name is Robert C. Walton.

lynda said...

John...I am in NO way advocating reverse speech as a science, although I have seen an update on his facebook that says people following him that are in the area are actually going searching for the "site" as stated in his reverse speech analysis. How he became linked to this discussion is because of the letter he received from a friend or family member at the request of the mother.
As for the letter, it had the ring of authenticity for me. Detailed, to the point and it all falls together as to why there is a virtual media blackout now and the parents are completely silent. It certainly filled in alot of gaps as to what could be going on. I had felt from the very beginning that gg was being "used" here as a scapegoat. Particularly when Deorr Sr. stated when he asked where baby was gg appeared "shocked" Why was he shocked? Because he was never asked to watch him? Perhaps he wasn't even aware that Deorr Jr. was there. Maybe DJ was NEVER there? The gg companion is a sex offender amongst other things and his name has never appeared in media. Sheriff has been guiding people to think that only 3 people were on that trip. Why all the cloak and dagger secrecy in regards to everything about this? A 2 year old is missing for God's sake, everything should be out in the open to find him IMO. I wonder what the law is regarding declaring a 2 year old deceased? Perhaps it's not that much time and if insurance (motive) would pay out quickly. Regardless, I agree with other poster that they're raising funds thru 2 fundme campaigns. Deorr Sr. LOVES the spotlight and he has been silent for days and days.

Anonymous said...

See a Reverse Speech prediction in comments here:


It would be interesting to know what Peter thinks of reverse speech analysis in general.

Anonymous said...

I am wondering also what is going on with this buncha deadbeats? I have not trusted either of these parents from the moment this poor child was reported missing and still don't, now even less.

I do believe however, that this sheriff and his deputy are no dummies and not to be taken lightly; I believe he/they will get to the bottom of their suspicions.

I'm sorry to say, but I don't think this is going to end well.

Just wish we knew what is going on....?

Anonymous said...

John, or Peter, or someone; could you please guide me in how to click on the links you all post? I would SOOo appreciate it!!

Anonymous said...

These posts seem to be continued on another page? Oh, okay, I see it now.

Anonymous said...

Oh. Newer posts automatically jump to the new page! Alrighty then.

Anonymous said...

Right click your mouse, and then copy and paste links into your Internet browser.

ima.grandma said...

Little Deorr's aunt refers to herself as "Tanisha O'Neal Tompkins" in the below link (my iPad won't allow me to select and copy statements.)

It is probably because the link comes from her Facebook page: 

If the aunt hasn't divorced, it appears she reverted back to her maiden name for "effect." She is referred to as "Tanisha Kunz" in this article: 

Add'l family tree info snipped (I'm even more confused now with Jessica's name in combination with Vernal??? and he/she and Tanisha are listed as twins) 

Traci is survived by her son, Robert James Sherwood, Jr. (RJ.), Fullerton, Calif; her husband, Robert James Sherwood, Fullerton, Calif; her mother, Kathryn (Kathie) Tremelling Vallem, Anaheim; father, Dennis DeOrr Kunz, Montpelier, half-brother and sister (twins), Vernal DeOrr (Jessica) Kunz, Montpelier and Tanisha (Ryan) Pompkins (I think this is a typo and should be Tompkins), Idaho Falls, one niece and one nephew.

More details:

TANISHA KUNZ, AGE : 26 Relatives: Dennis, Laurie, Deorr, Ryan (all name of Kunz)

BTW, DeOrr Jr. was last seen wearing cowboy boots, blue pajama pants, and a camouflage jacket." (What? No blue matching pajama shirt? Where did it go? Or did he just have the jacket with bare top? Why would they put a jacket on him in the middle of a summer day just to get ready for his nap?)

I haven't carefully read all the comments yet so my apologies if this is repeated info.

Hey John Mc., are you the same long timer username of: John?

Anonymous said...

This whole family reminds me of the Haleigh Cummings/Misty Croslin clan.

Anonymous said...

I think he is trying to say '10 minutes from the time I seen him to the point I figured out he was gone'.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if there was some sort of negligent accident (little Deorr got into drugs, something happened to him when the parents were wasted, or something like this) and then they decided on a cover-up so they wouldn't get arrested for it and so Jessica wouldn't lose visitation rights of her 2 older kids. Grandpa has dementia and is used as a cover because he will believe and parrot whatever he is told. Not sure how the sketchy "friend" fits in. What do you think of this theory?

ima.grandma said...

Search dogs led authorities to Stone Reservoir, but no trace of the missing toddler showed up. On Tuesday, the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office scaled back their search. They report that the case is going in another direction. Searchers remain in the area, however.

Has anyone noted how long, in total, they had been at the campground BEFORE anyone noticed the baby missing? Did the gg come in a separate vehicle? Did the gg state that he physically saw the baby? (I've been waiting for Deorr Sr. to pull a "Robert Durst" and inform us gg has a hearing problem and that's why gg didn't hear being told to watch the "little man." (First of all, it should have been a question asking gg to watch Deorr; a question requires an answer. I don't know about your parenting style, but i would have insisted a confirmation be heard when you are talking about your two year old's welfare.) Did gg's friend immediately leave upon the sheriff's arrival? I don't know the protocol journalists use when advised by LEAs to publicly withhold the name of a witness/suspect but I would think reporters would fall over themselves to obtain names and question those so closely involved.

John Mc Gowan said...

ima.grandma said...

Hey John Mc., are you the same long timer username of: John?


Yes, your friend on FB :) xx

I hope you're doing well? x

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Mc Gowan said...

Hi, lynda

i wasn't assuming you were. I put the link up for readership to make their own conclusions about the accuracy of the analysis that "reverse speech" claims.

Personally. i don't subscribe to it.

Juliet said...

If it's genuine, the letter to the reverse-speech guy is probably the most significant lead to date -perhaps it was sent to Peter, too - he maybe knows more than he is able to say.

I don't hear what some people find they can hear in those sound clips It's very much open to suggestion, as listeners are told what to hear. I can't hear anything which is clear enough to correspond with what he says he can hear. It might make for a good parlour game, but beyond that it seems like so much mischief-making. Even so, if the site resonated enough with someone to have prompted the letter, and it's contents lead to the truth, i won't be complaining. What Lynda says about the letter sounds plausible, but there are crank letter writers in abundance.

I wonder if the FBI has been called in, or if at all that remains for DeOrr is, in a few years time, to become one of those computer generated age-progressed photographs.

Why did they choose that campsite, a hundred and twenty mile drive from home, if they didn't know it, had never been there, and were presumably only going to decide once they got there if it was a safe enough environment for the baby? It's a long journey for a baby. I wonder if DeOrr was already dead, and they went there in the hope of not coming under suspicion from the relative who is the deputy there (again, if that info is reliable). I doubt it, because the cadaver dogs would have picked up the scent in the truck if a body had ever been inside it. If he had died, before or after the camping trip, and his body had ever been in the truck, LE would know by now - yet if the parents' story is true, they would have found him by now.

The letter would blow the lid on grandpa having care of DeOrr, waking or sleeping - too much to believe that either of them would find it safe to leave the baby with him, given what was said about the grandfather's condition.

Was it a set-up, and was suspicion meant to fall on the family friend/carer with the dodgy background?

I watched the interview again today, concentrating first only on the mother, then on the father, without sound - speeding up, slowing down, reversing it, to see how they might come across if I didn't know they were the parents of a missing child, or any of what they were talking about. I don't know if I would have guessed, but already knowing makes that one difficult.

ima.grandma said...

More confusing genealogy:

Mildred Kunz
Mary Mildred Kunz passed away peacefully on March 30, 2013, at Bear Lake Memorial Hospital, surrounded by her family. She was born on May 25, 1922, in Soda Springs, to Israel Barlow Smedley and Lydia Matilda (Henriksen) Smedley. Mary Mildred had two sisters Theda June, Betty Jean and one brother Delnor Jay, all deceased.

Mary Mildred graduated in 1940 from Soda Springs High School where she was cheerleader for two years. She married Lavar K. Hoff soon after graduation and resided in Soda Springs. To this union came a daughter Margo Lynn. They divorced a year later. Mary Mildred met Vernal DeOrr Kunz on a visit to Montpelier. They married on September 10, 1944. Vernal adopted Margo Lynn shortly after their marriage. Then came sons Dennis DeOrr, Lonnie Vernal, Larry Ray and Ricki Lee. This marriage was sealed for time and eternity along with their children on March 10, 1966, in the Logan Temple.

She was preceded in death in death by her husband Vernal DeOrr Kunz, her parents, two sisters, one brother, daughter-in-law LaRae Hymas Kunz, and one grand daughter Traci Kunz Sherwood.

Mary Mildred is survived by her children Margo Lynn (Larry) Nate, Salt Lake City, Dennis DeOrr Kunz, Montpelier, Lonnie Vernal (Felicia) Kunz, Las Vegas, Nev, Larry Ray (Penny) Kunz, Logan and Ricki Lee (Jill) Kunz, Montpelier,  11 grandchildren, many great-grandchildren, special nieces and nephews, and four sister-in-laws and three brother-in-laws.

John, I think you must have transitioned during my blog "sanity maintenance" hiatus. The more I caught up and read, the more noticeable your writing style showed through. Looks like the old gang is still around and we all still "ride or die" for Peter and statement analysis.

John Mc Gowan said...

ima.grandma said...

John, I think you must have transitioned during my blog "sanity maintenance" hiatus.

The more I caught up and read, the more noticeable your writing style showed through. Looks like the old gang is still around and we all still "ride or die" for Peter and statement analysis.

July 24, 2015 at 3:09 PM

"My blog"


""sanity maintenance" hiatus"

PM me hun xx

Juliet said...

John, yes, that's DeOrr,s father, the grandfather the family has been living with.

Re Jessica posting other missing children - the Mccanns also swiftly sought to associate themselves with efforts in finding other missing children. I find similarities in the behaviour, but DeOrr and Jessica are not in the same league. McCanns credibility was heightened in the beginning because of their status as doctors, despite -well, everything.

John Mc Gowan said...

Anonymous said...

John, or Peter, or someone; could you please guide me in how to click on the links you all post? I would SOOo appreciate it!!

July 24, 2015 at 11:19 AM

Hi, Anon

If you see a link under an article or post. Copy and paste it into your search engine. "Google" or whatever you're currently using. I hope this helps.

John Mc Gowan said...

Thanks, Juliet :)

Anonymous said...

"Detectives tell EastIdahoNews.com Deorr’s parents have been cooperative and Deorr’s great-grandfather, who was at the campsite, has never been a suspect. Investigators aren’t saying anything about the family friend who was also camping."


Juliet said...

I'm not saying they've staged a disappearance, only that at this point it looks that way, to me. Plus, I want that to be the case, if it means their child is with someone, and still alive. Unlikely, because who would harbour a child? There was a case here, though, Shannon Matthews, a few years back - the mother staged her daughter's disappearance. A family friend hid her in his flat/apartment for about two weeks, drugging her to keep her quiet and complaint. When he went out, he attached her to a leash that stretched to the bathroom. Attached to a belt rather than a collar, so that's one in his favour, at least.The police found her hidden inside a bed, by then everyone was assuming the worst and were convinced she'd been abducted and was dead, so her discovery was very unexpected. The family had the tee-shirt and posters, and the mother wept over the favourite cuddly toy. Poor kid. It was established that it was done in imitation of the Madeleine case, with the motive being money - the family strung everyone along quite happily for weeks, waiting for a newspaper to offer a reward. The accomplice was meant to take Shannon somewhere and then discover her and claim the reward. They were as thick as two short planks, and not as photogenic as the McCanns, and they didn't attract the type of reward they were hoping for.

Juliet said...

Compliant - typo.

Juliet said...

Whoever wanted to know:

If you're using an iPad it's a palaver to copy and paste links - keep your finger on the text till the blue highlight box appears, then adjust the size of it so that the box covers only the link (do this by grabbing and moving the blue dots top, bottom and side if necessary). Hold down on the new highlighted area until the small black menu appears and select 'copy'. Go to tha address bar, clear any address which is in there, then hold down till the black menu comes up and choose 'paste'. If you succeeded, you only lost three minutes of your life, if not you might have try again, and again. I find tablets so inconsistent in what they will and won't do - just want to throw them out of a window. :) it's so fabulous when anyone posts a real,live html link!

Anonymous said...

I wonder if great-grandpa and friend were at already at the campground and DeOrr and Jessica arrived with little DeOrr at a time or day separate from them. I have felt all along that great-grandpa was being used. If I remember correctly, DeOrr Sr. said something at the vigil like "the worst mistake a parent could make, to leave a child with someone who turns his head for a minute." (I know that isn't the exact quote, but it's too hard for me to search for it on my tablet) I had read that they weren't blaming the great grandpa, but that sure sounds like they are putting it all on him to me. And if what was posted about the letter earlier was true, there is no way a responsible parent would leave someone with the great grandpa's health decline to care for little DeOrr in an open campsite with so many dangers.

I want to think that they arranged for an "abduction" or something of that sort, because I want to believe DeOrr is still alive and well. But I have my doubts about that, as well. I did notice on the mom's Facebook page if you scroll down far enough, you will see that she used to like playing some type of crime solving game. I know that doesn't mean anything on its own because obviously most of us here are intrigued by mystery, as well. But she could have gotten ideas from it. If you put that together with the many other minor details of this case, it paints an interesting picture. One that at least should be considered. I hate to speculate that, but I think every angle has to be covered simply because this is such a mystery. I hope I am wrong and that baby DeOrr is found safe. I want to think that no parent could harm their child, but we all know that isn't true. Both parents have been suspicious to me since I first came across this case, but like I said, I really hope I am wrong on this one.

John Mc Gowan said...


LEADORE — It’s been two weeks since Deorr Kunz disappeared. There’s been no sign of him at the campground, his family isn’t commenting and investigators are releasing very little new information. Police say they’re continuing to search for the two-year-old Idaho Falls toddler.

EastIdahoNews.com spoke with retired Idaho Fish and Game investigator Tony Latham. Over his 22-year career he investigated several missing person cases and he believes the boy will be found.

“I’m quite satisfied this will come to a resolution,” Latham said in a FaceTime interview from his home in Salmon. “Everything has to be on the table. You do your initial assessment … and focus on what’s the most obvious. At the same time, everything else has to be operating in the background.”

Latham said some theories investigators may be considering include Deorr walking away on his own, the possibility of him being abducted, the idea that he was never at the campsite in the first place or that a wild animal was involved in his disappearance.

“Lemhi County has done close to 300 searches. If it had been a wild animal attack they would have at least found a boot,” Latham said. “I think, by now, the theory should be discounted.”

Detectives tell EastIdahoNews.com Deorr’s parents have been cooperative and Deorr’s great-grandfather, who was at the campsite, has never been a suspect.

Investigators aren’t saying anything about the family friend who was also camping

Even though few new details are being released, Latham said that doesn’t mean the case isn’t moving forward.

“There are some cameras on the highway on both directions of 93,” Latham said. “I’m sure [they] have been looked … and I’m sure they’re looking more or less under every rock, so to speak, for leads on this case.”

Search crews were hoping for a lead on the Stone Reservoir after K9 dogs picked up a scent near the water.

After days of intense searches, investigators learned someone dumped human cremains into the reservoir. Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman said that was the scent the dogs were likely picking up.

If Deorr is in the reservoir, Latham said his body would eventually be found, because cadavers typically rise to surface after three weeks of decomposition.

Investigators, and Deorr’s family, remain hopeful he’s still alive. Latham has faith the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office will solve this case.

“They know those hills and they know how to find people,” Latham said. “If there’s something to be found in that area, they’ll come up with it. It’s important for everyone keep that kid’s face in your mind.”


Sus said...

I'm taking it a step further and saying I don't subscribe to ANYTHING going on at that site. He got a letter. Sure. The mother had her friend post a comment to some internet junk blog about her family history and worries. Okayyyy. Don't you think she'd express her concerns to LE rather than posting it on a blog?

My guess is that the "internet criminologists" like Lies for Eyes or Eyes for Lies in the Ayla Reynolds case are getting more tricky. And most commentators on other sites, including here, are her/his minions. It's so sad that it takes so much to stick with the truth and actual events when those twerps enter.

Juliet said...

Ima.grandma. - Tanisha is DeOrr's sister.

There's also Keisha, the foul-mouthed young cousin of Jessica, who has been very vocal in defence of her family on social media and comments page of news stories. Keep it classy, Keefa.

Juliet said...

I'm going to look at that reverse speech sight again, and see if I agree with you, Sus. I think Jessica or one of the family might be watching here - it was uncanny how you said you'd be suspicious if the parents didn't say something soon, and within an hour or so Jessica had written her first message to baby DeOrr.

Juliet said...

...and at risk of being a bore, maybe taking cues from critics as to how next to proceed (as with McCann machine). I'm going to shut up about the similarities now.

ima.grandma said...

I totally agree with you Sus. When I saw that backward speech post the other day, I thought it was a ridiculous concept with no scientific basis. I mentioned it, asked for thoughts and received "expected" results. While not a new idea, most people are not buying it. Even worse, the author tries to sell this idea under the self-referenced title of Comedic Hypnotist ~ very bad advertising if he is attempting authenticity.

Juliet, I send you much gratitude re: navigation of iPad embedded images. I have an ipad first-generation that included kinks not entirely worked out. This blog's greatest asset is it's diversity in knowledge and opinion. Thank you Peter and Heather for your dedication.
After posting, I re-read and determined the original author's punctuation pattern and came to the same conclusion regarding Tanisha. Thanks for the confirmation.

To my buddy John. I sent a pm. Look under "Other" in your inbox. Watch for a friend request to follow.

John Mc Gowan said...

Hi, Juliet

i wouldn't get to bogged down about the mcscams, (intended lower case and play on the name) and similarities, although, on a very minuscule level by context. They are an entity (mcscams) unto themselves.

MzOpinion8d said...

So far in every case I've ever followed where family members get online and say "you don't know all the facts" and "when the facts come out then you'll understand" blah, blah, blah...it has always turned out to be exactly as everyone suspected. We had a local case where a big meth ring was busted and the main guy's family was on the newspaper site going on and on about "the facts". When "the facts" came out, it was even worse than everyone thought!!

I appreciate all the family info and other info that has been posted here. I love one particular site most of the time, but sometimes their stupid rules make the discussions devolve into ridiculousness. Like 500 posts arguing the possibility of an animal attack since the parents can't be discussed...yeah, really not "sleuthing" at that point.

Statement Analysis Blog said...

Mzopinion, point taken.

When family says, "you don't know all the facts..." instead of of just stating the facts, it is a signal of diversion.

Diversion shows the need to divert!


Sus said...

Has the family said, "You don't know all the facts."? Have they said anything except one interview Peter analyzed here? The silence is speaking volumns to me.

Sus said...

I need to correct something I said. The blogger or Facebook person who stirred up all the trouble in the Ayla Reynolds case was not Eyes for Lies. I can't remember the name, but they put up pages on many cases. Then they distort facts, pretend family members are commenting. I don't see how it's legal.

Anonymous said...

The adult portion of this family disgusts me! The "friends" as well!!!

leep said...

I totally agree MzOpinion8d, were not even allowed to quote some of the very interesting work that goes on on this site by the author and commenters.

Anonymous said...

The adult portion of this family disgusts me! The"friends" as well!!!

Anonymous said...

Haven't seen anything definitive about this, but perhaps Mom and Dad are being told what to say (and when) by an attorney. Although I find it odd that they are posting on Facebook and other social media when they've vowed to stay at the campsite (which has bad cell service and certainly no wi-fi).

Juliet said...

I wouldn't bother upgrading till it dies, ima.grandma - mine is an iPad Air, and for all the hype, I don't find much difference between the newer and older, except this one is slimmer - it's no easier to use for text editing.

John Mc Gowan said...

Hi, ima.grandma

I just checked. There is nothing there. :/

Anonymous said...

At this point do you not have leverage against ggp's friend to clear his name?

Juliet said...

John - I'm not going to get bogged down by them, I already told myself to stop. :) Toxic brand, toxic followers.

John Mc Gowan said...

Juliet said..

"Toxic brand, toxic followers".

I concur, Juliet.

I stopped subscribing to those sites long ago. It has become a circus. Not just the Pro's, also the anti's. They are to locked into trying to prove each other wrong, that Maddie has become a side issue.


Juliet said...

John - yup, me too - they all do Madeleine a great disservice - the antics on those forums must be so very gratifying to the Machine. Well, I didn't leave, I just grew tired of being called a Pro and being banned - they don't do reasonable. Now I only go there to lurk when something happens with Amaral, for the updates. I liked Joana Morais pre-meltdown and shut down, but she could be randomly volatile, too.

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Mc Gowan said...

Hi, juliet

what i did fail to add was. I do follow, not follow, as visit the page, but get notifications of Gencalo Amarals ongoing lawsuit against the mcscamms. Them >>>>>>>> fill in your own expletive, nearly put that man in a grave. He lost everything. His family, job, his home, you name it, he suffered, because of the machine that is the mcscamms. Backed by the top of the political tree (government) not to mention, one of, if not the, most powerful lawyers that money can buy, Carter Ruck. These bstard's have stopped book being published, eg, Pat brown. her book was taken off Amazon and book shelves around the world.

The irony about the book "The Truth Of The Lie" (which got "carter rucked) is, it is NOT speculation and or hearsay, but written, using the police files and report findings.

Ok. That's me done now lol.

Juliet said...

John - I think Amaral's not finished yet, but let's shush - talking attracts them. :)

lynda said...

For those of you who care to read, it seems the reverse speech FB page has riled up Little Deorr's family. The page has posted a response to their harrassment. It is also interesting the point he brings up that they are dead silent in giving interviews because they fear people "analyzing" their speech. I wonder how many times the family has checked THIs blog!


MzOpion8d said...

Sus, there is a cousin, I believe named Keisha or something similar, that has posted on numerous sites about "the facts" and defending the family. She's very fond of the F word and doesn't seem to know what punctuation is.

Anonymous said...

They are more worried about people analyzing their speech than they are about getting word about little DeOrr being missing and his getting his picture out there? And they supposedly believe he has been abducted? That seems very shady to me and like they have something to hide.

If I had a 2 year old that I thought was abducted, I would do any interview I could. I would be calling John Walsh, Mark Klaas, all the national news stations, and anyone else I could think of who would give me the chance to spread the word about my missing child and help bring him home.

Juliet said...

Keisha is a young teenager and probably out of the information loop, unable to contemplate that her cousins may not be telling it as it is. She doesn't want people to think badly of her family, and is outraged that people are jumping to conclusions, when they don't even know her family, or 'the facts'. She is probably repeating what the adults around her are saying, with extra expletives. She could use some manners - she is way out of control in her on-line behaviour, and not too self-aware if she can't see her behaviour does not reflect well on her family - maybe this is her norm, and the way she has learnt to deal with conflict is to be abusive towards those causing it. Beyond noting her, we should back off Keisha - she's a kid.

Anonymous said...

I would not be so quick to make excuses for Keisha just because we might think of her as still being a kid. She knows exactly what she is doing and saying. She thinks she knows more than you do and will be glad to tell you so before you even ask her.

It might shock you to know that some of these girls at twelve years old are already having sex, some with both sexes and don't mind saying so, then cursing you if you disagree with or question their lifestyle. They are posting multiple semi-nudes of themselves all over their face book and their friends facebook pages. I read one recently, now just barely thirteen, who was bragging about having one girlfriend lover and two boyfriend lovers during the last year and a half, professing her undying love to all three. Her many friends were posting with her, totally agreeing and applauding her.

IMO, Keisha is not parroting the comments of more mature adults or those relatives she is in contact with, she is stating her own feelings, thoughts and profanity and to hell with anyone who disagrees with her. These kids spouting off all over facebook are totally out of control and no matter how hard some of the parents try to rein them in they are unable to do so.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

The GGF friend who was with them camping is Isaac, not that man.

Anonymous said...

He is related to Isaac. See the family resemblance? Look into the entire family, you'll be amazed and disgusted...

Juliet said...

Anon, Keisha is a minor, which is why she is off-limits, or should be -you see she is a minor, you are not related, you click away from her profile.

Anonymous said...

This isn't Baby Doerr, but look at the resemblance (down to the oversized cowboy boots).


Anonymous said...

More on Lonzie Barton case:

Anonymous said...

Baby Doerr You Tube video:
Overlay comments at beginning (from Mom?)
Camo jacket at 2:05 and again later
Bushy hair at 2:19

MzOpinion8d said...

Juliet, thanks for the info on K. If I had realized she was a teen I wouldn't have named her, I apologize for that. I haven't seen her Facebook page, just a few comments she's made. I wrongly assumed she was around JM's age.

I have also seen a comment or two from JM's sister mentioning people not knowing the facts and jumping to conclusions.

If DeOrr's family are so concerned about the facts, why haven't they provided any?

Anonymous said...

Unless a facebook page is set to private, Juliet, it is a public domain. Period. There are laws governing harassment and pedophiles on the pages of a minor, as well as to protect the rest of us, but we are not pedophiles nor are we harassing anyone. "you see she is a minor, you are not related to her, you click away from her profile." Are you an attorney attempting to give me legal advice regarding Keisha being a minor on a public social media domain? Then don't.

Anonymous said...

Keisha has also posted comments on several other Facebook pages. So how are those readers supposed to know she is a minor?

Juliet said...

MzOpinion8d - I have looked at lots of the family pages, some changed their privacy settings after a couple of days - it's surprising how so many people leave their pages so open. I saw Keisha's too and was surprised she was so young. Parents should do more to ensure random stranger's can't access their kids' pages, but if they are not too web savvy themselves, they don't know where even to start, and some kids are clueless when it comes to protecting their own privacy.:-/

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 6:27, who cares if she is a minor or claims to be? We're not bothering this little foul mouthed tart. People lie all the time on their facebook pages about their age, sex, lifestyle, name, and everything else under the sun.

For the most part there is no way to tell when someone is lying or telling the truth on social media unless it is someone you already know personally.

Pfooey.... we're supposed to ignore Keisha and not respond to her rude, profane and condnscending remarks just because she 'might' be a minor? If she is, it's her parents responsibility to take control of her, not ours.

Anonymous said...

Hannah Anderson was a minor too, smart little conniving twat that she was; getting away with her part in murdering her own mother, brother and the family dog, then setting her older 'lured under her control' boyfriends' house on fire in an attempt to burn them to a crisp, while he wound up being shot dead multiple times trying to hide and protect her. Yeah, right. Sweet little innocent minors. NOT.

Not ALL of them. This little Kiesha already proves how rotten she is just with her nasty mouth.

Rose City, Oregon said...

I agree with you, Sus. Besides, why would Jessica's own mother, who is friends with Jessica on Facebook, and started a DeOrr Facebook page which Jessica posts on, tell people she suspects her own child of foul play in little DeOrr's disappearance? It makes no logical sense at all.

Juliet said...

Anon - what a strange argument,. Technically, open pages are in the public domain, yes, but it's intrusive to go onto a kid's FB page if you don't know them, or even if you do know them, unless you have been invited. Adults shouldn't take advantage of a kids' naivety or ignorance of the privacy settings. It's about their privacy, and our common decency, rather than our right and freedom to access any page just because it can be publicly viewed.

Open Forums and comment pages are public meeting places, so there is no issue there - anyone can join the conversation, and we could be conversing with anyone of any age, and that's fine; a good forum can be a great way for young people to improve their knowledge, communication and debating skills . Kids FBs are different because they regard them as their personal space where they post stuff for their own and friends' amusement. The mistakes kids used to make in private, or at least locally, can now be made in public without their realising it, sometimes to the ruin of their reputation, by the assistance of their nosy neighbours.. Some don't have a clue about the privacy settings or realise that people who are not their friends can see what they post, so it is intrusive to look. If you know them but haven't been invited, it's the on-line equivalent of walking into a kid's bedroom without knocking, and if you don't know them there is no reason to look at their page.

In Keisha's case, people checking out the family pages did not realise she was a kid until they clicked open her page - the reaction of some being 'my bad', and to close the page - because she's a kid, and that's her personal space, which is very different to the public forums and news sites' comments, where she sought attention, contact and views from strangers. She did not, so far as I know, invite us to check out her personal FB.

Anonymous said...

"You will not use Facebook if you are under 13."

Facebook Terms of Service #4.5

Anonymous said...

All this arguing is just going to make more people check out her page. It's not against my personal morals to look at the profile of anyone when they are posting on Facebook and their profile is open to the public. YMMV. I just checked it out to see what she is saying. And by glancing at her pics, I can't tell if she is 13 or 18. But it says she graduates next year, so she is probably about 17 years old, not some little kid.

Juliet said...

Anon at 6.27 - I didn't suggest that anyone should know, or be able to know Keisha was a minor - just that when they discovered that, via her personal FB page, that they should get off it. I don't say there's an issue conversing with her in the FB Groups, or on any adult's page she posts on -I'm not saying people shouldn't converse, though hopefully those who do are mature enough to not need to be abusive towards her. I am saying that checking out her personal FB, once you know she's a kid, is out of order (at least in my world).

Juliet said...

Even Iif she's seventeen, she's still a kid in my world, Anon at 9.50.

Anonymous said...

she probably flunked a grade so she might not be a minor anyway

Anonymous said...

Your world is just that -- your world. Let's move on.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the brat is a minor. I think she did flunk (possibly 2 grades) because it says "Started School at Idaho Falls High School, August 2010" -- and also that she graduates in 2016. Do the math.

Juliet said...

Anon 9.59. Yes, let's do :)

Does anyone know of the Stephanie who made the DeOrr video yet, and if it has been made with the approval of the parents, or if it 's by a random sympathiser who has taken the photos and video from family pages? It would be interesting to know who authored the poem, as it's written as if it is by the mother, yet YouTube being what it is, it could have been put together by a presumptuous stranger (as per so many of the early Madeleine videos).

Juliet said...

Anon - get off her page, leave the kid alone.

Anonymous said...

Juliet -- It doesn't sound like people are harassing her, just reading her public page. Nothing illegal about that. Quit trying to force your personal rules of "decency" onto others. You've explained your opinion. Obviously others have different opinions. That is life. Get over yourself.

Anonymous said...

Juliet spends a lot of her not-so-valuable time telling others here how they should think, act, do, and not do. On a previous post she told John to 'shuuh... keep it quiet so to speak. Juliet, John has been here a lot longer than you have, clearly has some expertise' in body language, and I don't think he needs you telling him to be quiet.

Most of us have been here a lot longer than you have and don't need you telling us how we should view or react to another supposedly minor(?) aged facebook poster, or if we should. None of us recently crawled out from under a rock and have been sitting idly by waiting for you to rescue us and tell us what to do, or not to do. Pretty soon you'll be telling Peter how to think and what to do and say on his own blog site.

Get it, Juliet; we are ALL adults here, all of clear minds and sound judgment. Go run your OWN life and get off our cloud. We were perfectly happy before you ever showed up acting like you are counseling us bumbling idiots.

Anonymous said...

Anon @10:09, if she started high school in August 2010, that being five years ago; and high school starts in the 10th grade, she has already been in high school five years, yet still doesn't graduate until 2016? Wowzer, that's a long time, six years just to complete high school that should be finished in three years, 2013.

Do you suppose she dropped out for a few years or was out sick or something? I have no idea, haven't read her facebook page and don't intend too. It's little DeOrr who remains my interest, not this snippy little foul-mouthed twat, OR Juliet.

Anonymous said...

Little DeOrr in his photo is such a darling little boy. He has very intelligent eyes, penetrating, such a deep and intense look; a questioning not-so-sure look as if he's wondering 'what are you doing?'

I wonder why he was wearing boots that were too large for him? These would have been very uncomfortable for him to struggle with walking, causing him to fall down and giving him blisters on his little feet. I'd guarantee you neither of his parents would have been trying to walk around in killer boots that were too large.

If they could afford gasoline to get up to that campsite to do God knows what, they could have afforded a decent pair of shoes for this child.

Juliet said...

Lol, keep on keeping it classy, Anon. I like how you set yourself up as spokesperson for others here, despite yourself not even having a name, and then have conversations with yourself. :). You're so OTT at times, I can't help but wonder if you are a Poe. Despite your wish to create a group consensus, I don't sense hostility towards me from the others, so I think I'll decline your polite invitation to leave Peter's blog. I do seem to be touching nerves with you, and acknowledge that I can come across as a bit school ma'amish at times - I can see how that might be annoying.

Juliet said...

Well, the over-sized boots would have fallen off or been shed within a short distance, so that's probably the most obvious indicator of his not wandering from the campsite.


I'm going to see if there's any more information about the poem, and if it was written by the mother, and the video.

Juliet said...

Jessica's FB, no link to the video which has attracted only 63 views so far, so no indication it is up with knowledge of the family. The video was uploaded by a Stephanie Burkman. Jessica has now made her friends list private, so I don't know if Stephani is a friend.

At risk of being a real bore to anyone who knows what I am referencing 'Good quality wristbands, anyone?' Jessica has posted a link to a company which makes them.

Juliet said...

Stephani - auto-correct uncorrected it.

Anonymous said...

Baby Doerr You Tube video:
Overlay comments at beginning (from Mom?)
Camo jacket at 2:05 and again later
Bushy hair at 2:19

Juliet said...

Stephanie Burkman is not listed as a friend of DeOrr Sr., his sister Tanisha, or Jessica's mother, Trina Bates Clegg - Jessica's friend list is now set to private. The video clip at the beginning of the YouTube must have been obtained through the family, though it is not either of those open to public viewing on Jessica's page, so it could not have been taken from her page by a stranger, but perhaps it is on another family member's page, though it looks like the sort of clip mothers do at random just to keep on their phones.

The overlay comment/poem is written from Jessica's perspective, but there is no accompanying confirmation in the space below where the video owner could have said Jessica wrote it, and that the video is made with the family. I'd assume at first glance it was made with and for Jessica, and that the video, photos and text has been supplied by her. It doesn't have to be the case - it could be by one of those maverick types who have morbid obsessions round creating sentimental videos of missing or murdered children, and who would not find a problem with creating such a video of their own volition. If that was so, it would be a one-time event for Stephani, whose upload history is just a few family videos.

Juliet said...

So far, the family has not associated itself with video, so it will be interesting to see if they do. I'd be upset if someone put up a video like that and presumed to speak for me, to and about, my child - I would lose no time in disowning it. If I was involved in making it,however, wouldn't the purpose be to publicise and post it, and ask others to share it? That's not happening either. The first half is like a tribute video to a dead child, and the sentimentalising in general is inappropriate to the seriousness of DeOrr's plight. I don't get the mindset behind it. It will be interesting to see how the family responds to any questions about it.

lynda said...

Deorr's mom Jessica just posted this to her FB page...any analysis anyone?

Jessica Mitchell
17 hrs ·
If any of my friends or family are members of the page called "Help Find Baby DeOrr (little man)" please leave it. It's just people harassing the family over the missing of my Lil Man and it needs to be stopped so if you could leave that group is greatly appreciate it! And there is a better more positive group out there that we can get you on to help support the family and help find him. Thanks

She also posted this to the above named FB page in response to a poster:

Linda Ann Pottie Richard The "little man page" ur only allowed to agree with them..if u disagree or have an opinion they curse ..call u volgur names and delete u .all i can say is they are def not the piller of thier community
Like · Reply · 1 · 5 hrs

Jessica Mitchell No Linda you bashed me and my family that Love For Little Man page is for the family and supporters to try to help find my son and it's a page where people can go and not have to read a bunch of negative crap that ppl are saying!
Like · Reply · 11

Here is a link to the page where mom wrote the above

idk..Why is she bothering to get into FB wars with people? Or directing them away from a page where people dare to ask questions? If my boy was missing..I wouldn't be on FB at all..I'd be out putting up posters, knocking on doors, covering ground.

Anonymous said...

"and it needs to be stopped so if you could leave that group." And just how is that going to stop it?" Does Jessica suspect that someone in her inner circle is making negative comments? And, on that referenced website, I see the word hearsay again. I suppose the writer means gossip or rumor, but it's an odd word to use.

Anonymous said...

Here's Stephani Burkman again:

Sus said...

To the anon who said Joshua Reinwand is related to Isaac Reinwand: How? I've been down the rabbit hole and finally escaped after hour and hours. I can find no connection.

Juliet said...

Tanisha, DeOrr Sr's sister has written on her Facebook:

22 July

Baby DeOrr we light these candles in hopes to guide u home, to ur mommy and daddy's arms where u belong! Our life is so dark without u! I hope u know how much u r loved by so many people my sweet little nephew! We will never stop searching for u little guy!! We just love and miss u every second of everyday! Life just isn't ok without u!

23 July

This world that we live in so so hard to even think about adapting without u my sweet little nephew! It just can't happen! There's just a giant hole that can never be filled! I hope for the day that u come home and we can look back on all of this and just remember when. When all of our lives were so dark without u. Our thoughts r all over the place every second of every day! We r just absolutely lost buddy!! Our lives will never be the same! We promise to never stop looking for u until u r found and with ur loving family! U r constantly on our minds and always in our hearts! I just hope that u r safe little guy!! We love u so much baby DeOrr! We just want u back with us my sweet little nephew!!

First post - 'we will never stop searching for u little guy'
Next day - 'we promise to never stop looking for u until u r found...'

Did someone have a little word about the possible meaning of the first post, so she tried to correct it in the second, but just doesn't get that she hasn't? Strange unkeepable promise, and how are they going to find him on Facebook - he's not a lost teddy bear. I wonder if it is some form of distancing, sugar coating the horror of a missing child, and writing him messages he can't read and wouldn't understand if he could. Whatever it is, it's not a part of DeOrr's reality.

Juliet said...

Thanks for Stephani Burkman's Facebook - she writes, some days ago:

'For never meeting this little cutie he sure has had a tight hold on my heart for the past 11 days I can't talk about this without losing it... We need to keep sharing posts and hopefully bring this baby home'

She has recently added Brennon Birch, the siblings father, Jessica's ex, to her FB friends. I can't see any of the rest of the family amongst her friends. So maybe she contacted Brennon out of concern, and offered her help in making a YouTube. I don't know, just a guess, but there is a connection.

Juliet said...

Maybe Stephani doesn't want to bother the parents, so contacts Brennon because he is close to the situation, to sound out what help she can offer, and Jessica says a YouTube would be helpful, and it goes from there, with Jessica supplying the material. I think it's most likely she is someone who just wants to help, and as she is good at making YouTubes, that's the result. Just a guess, still waiting to see if the family is going to post it or distance themselves from it.

lynda said...

I have to agree that mom asking people to "leave it to stop it" is strange. Deorr's sister mentioned his name once and says, "sweet little nephew" 3 x . I also agree that these are posts meant solely for the FB posters..certainly not for Deorr. There is an attempt to divert attention from the negative or questioning people on FB. Why? Who cares what they think? People that post negative thoughts or opinions of the parents don't have the power to sway LE. It does nothing to help them "search forever' (alarming) The more they utilize and write down things on social media, the more they give away or as I am learning, the more chance for "leakage" so perhaps its a good thing that the family seems more focused on monitoring FB messages and attempting to sway the public in their favor. It certainly shows that they're not looking 24/7.

Anonymous said...

I thought Mom and Dad vowed to stay at the campsite until Doerr was found? So how are they managing to do all these Facebook posts?

Sus said...

Trying again. Anon who said Issac and Joshua are related. Can you tell me how, please?

Anonymous said...

I think that person said Joshua and Isaac looked like each other!

Anonymous said...

Another youtube video:


lynda said...

This was written on Deorr Sr. sister FB (Tanisha)

Lynne Williams- Non of us are the same he brightened our days and warmed our hearts and we will never be the same without him
Like · 2 · July 23 at 8:00pm

Tanisha O'Neal Tompkins- Agreed Lynne!

Do they realize that Lynne is talking in past tense and Tanisha is agreeing?

HE Brightened our days and warmed our hearts instead of Little Deorr brightens our days and warms our hearts.
We will never be the same without him? Why are you going to be without him? Because he will never be found?

lynda said...

Tanisha also posted this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWV0jpndYbY. It is Charlie Puth song "When I see you again" written in memory of Paul Walker. "You're in a better place" is just one of the lyrics. I mean, when you copy and paste the link you see "IN MEMORY OF" it is so odd.

Jessica Mitchell posted comment

Jessica Mitchell Sad thing is this was his favorite song
Like · 3 · July 22 at 4:45pm

That seems like a mighty strange song to be the "favorite" of a 2 year old. Notice the "WAS" his favorite song...not "IS" his favorite song.

Juliet said...

Peter has said at various times that when someone has been missing for a while the family, recognising the likelihood of their loved one being dead, will begin to talk about the loved one in the past tense, and that it is not an indicator of guilt, in itself, if it comes later. I don't know if it might also apply to the later use of 'never' - they must know in their hearts by now that they are never really going to find him (alive), at least not if he is lying undiscovered on that mountain. It's so awful, it must be especially difficult for the other dad trying to hold it all together for DeOrr's sister and brother - what a nightmare.

Juliet said...

Anon at 9.28 - nobody would really expect them to camp out for ever, though they may still be there, but it would seem pretty pointless by now - I don't know, but realistically, it's too much for anyone to expect them to go on an searching, endlessly, every day, because it's not sustainable in the long term, or even for more than a couple of hours at a time, in the short term. No matter their intentions, the reality is that there has to come a point at which there is a return to everyday life, and for young people that almost invariably includes a fair bit of time spent on social media, so they could still be camped out, and on Facebook, but one would hope, for their own sakes, that they are not still out there. it is not strange that they are on-line, or that questions are being raised, or that those who express doubt as to what happened that day are labelled 'haters', because it's the easiest way to make friends and family feel unable to query the given version of events.

What purpose would it serve to stay up there for very long when they've been assured he is not on the mountain and not in the reservoir. Where would they even begin to search next if, as they say, they believe he has been abducted - which state, which city, which town, which street, which house, and how? It can't be done, they need to be at home, having proper meals and sleep, in preparation for whatever comes next - whatever the truth, just getting through each day is an achievement for them right now.

lynda said...

Juliet, I agree that when someone is missing a long time language begins to change. But 2 weeks? Not long enough in my book, particularly with them pushing kidnapping. He could very well be alive if kidnapped. idk..2 weeks? Not buying it

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know the name of the sheriff who is supposedly Jessica Mitchell's uncle (her mom Trina Bates Clegg's brother)?? Lynda you had posted that info about the alleged "letter from a friend of Jessica's mom" that mentioned this family connection. Thanks.

lynda said...

Anon 3:42 No, I don't. That was the friend of moms who wrote the letter to the reverse speech guy. He took it down shortly after putting up. I do recall that it was a sheriff that in the very beginning, maybe appeared in media? Then he was never seen in media again. The letter also mentioned that Jess and Deorr Sr. were supposed to move to Utah for a job that fell through. Through all this FB posting, Deorr Sr. has relatives in Utah so that could lend credence to the letter from the friend overall.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone think this sounds weird “As his father I believe, and a lot of people agree with me, that he is no longer up the mountain anymore,” Kunz Sr. said.

The "as his father" part seems strange to say in this context -- like an intuition? Because what does being his father have anything to do with the kid being there or not or any evidence?

Juliet said...

Anonymous at 7.48- I wondered if he felt the need to stress that he was the father because Brennon, the father of DeOrr's brother and sister was also up there searching, and had made the calls for additional search and rescue assistance from further afield. Maybe he felt overshadowed and inadequate, having lost the one child he and Jessica have care of, while Brennon not only raises the other two as a single parent, but also searched, and helped facilitate the extra resources. He didn't, like some of them, set up a fund-raising page to get vague extra resources - he just got on with it.

Another possibility, perhaps he has doubts, or others have expressed doubts, around paternity. I'd be more inclined towards him feeling vulnerable and inadequate on account of Brennon, because he was the responsible one who had his act together, while DeOrr and Jessica between them had somehow managed to lose their two-year old baby. How could he not feel that way?

lynda said...

I am more concerned with the phrase, "and alot of people agree with me" need to persuade that Deorr is not on mountain. How does he know that? Because he KNOWS where Deorr is and he's not on the mountain?

Side note - Trina Bates Clegg (mom of Jessica) is NOT friends with Deorr Sr (baby daddy) on FB though she is friends with his sister and Aunt.

lynda said...

I am more concerned with the phrase, "and alot of people agree with me" need to persuade that Deorr is not on mountain. How does he know that? Because he KNOWS where Deorr is and he's not on the mountain?

Side note - Trina Bates Clegg (mom of Jessica) is NOT friends with Deorr Sr (baby daddy) on FB though she is friends with his sister and Aunt.

Juliet said...

PS Brennon got on with it in the belief that DeOrr was up the mountain - DeOrr meanwhile doesn't think/believe, or want others to carry on thinking that DeOrr is up the mountain - he wants people to think it's an abduction, despite LE not issuing an Amber Alert as there was no evidence of an abduction - surely they would have heard the approach of an abductor, or at least him/her/them driving away.

Juliet said...

I read a piece, I think it was on inquisitr.com, in which a spokesperson said the investigation had been disrupted by on-line speculation, or something along those lines. I can't find the page now as the search facility doesn't work for me, perhaps one needs to be a subscriber to use the search. I thought that was odd though, and find it difficult to believe that at the height of a search for a missing child, LE would be letting themselves be diverted by online chatter. Worth a read, if anyone can access it. It made me wonder if there is conflict in how it has all been handled.

Anonymous said...

Where is DeOrr Kunz Jr. ? shared Brennon Birch's post.
July 25 at 10:47pm ·

Brennon Birch
Baby Deorr is my family . he may not be blood but he is my children's little brother through blood and my children are my damn world . people who keep wanting to talk shit on the family of this little guy are also talking shit to me. You want to act like your a god damn detective on Facebook ? Come say your bull shit to my face

Anonymous said...

The Where is Deorr website also says this:

"Negative commentary is strictly prohibited!"

ima.grandma said...

IDAHO FALLS — The third individual who was at Leadore campsite when two-year-old Deorr Kunz Jr. disappeared said he has no idea what happened to the toddler.

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman confirmed Isaac Reinwand, 35, of Idaho Falls, was at the Timber Creek Campground on July 10 alongside Deorr’s parents Jessica Mitchell and Deorr Kunz Sr. and his as yet unnamed great-grandfather.

The sheriff’s office had previously withheld Reinwand’s name, referring to him only as a family friend at the campsite.

Over the weekend Reinwand’s name was widely publicized on social media, leading to Bowerman confirming the detail to EastIdahoNews.com

“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”

Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are “persons of interest” in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case.

The great-grandfather, who authorities have not identified, also has not been labeled as a suspect. Authorities said his declining physical and mental health ruled him out at the beginning of the case.

Over the weekend, Reinwand was repeatedly identified as a sex offender with an extensive criminal history in online forums and on social media. However, police and court documents dispute that assertion. The Idaho State Repository shows Reinwand was charged with felony rape in 2006, but that charge was amended down to misdemeanor domestic battery.

Sheriff’s officials also have told EastIdahoNews.com Reinwand is not a sex offender.

“He does have a criminal record, however the police reports are not consistent with his record (and I’m) not sure why,” Bowerman said in the email.

Bowerman did not elaborate on the inconsistencies.

EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions.

“He just disappeared,” Reinwand said.

Investigators are still classifying the Deorr Kunz Jr. case as a search and rescue. During the last two weeks, search crews have conducted extensive sweeps of the area, including the reservoir and the creek. The search was scaled back after 10 days. There is still no sign of Deorr.

Mitchell and Kunz believe their son was abducted. Bowerman has not ruled abduction out. He said authorities do not suspect foul play, but has said in the past that everything is being considered in the search for the toddler. No suspects have been named in the case.

Deorr has been missing since the afternoon of July 10, when the Salmon Dispatch Center received a 911 call from Mitchell that the toddler had gone missing.

The parents told EastIdahoNews.com they left the child with his great-grandfather and when they returned 10 to 15 minutes later, Deorr was gone. The great-grandfather assumed the child was with his parents.

“My dad was standing there watching him and he turned his head and then (Deorr) was gone,” grandmother Trina Bates Clegg said on July 12. “It appears like he just vanished.”

ima.grandma said...

Site for info:

Look @ top right for additional names involved.

Anonymous said...

So GGF has "declining physical and mental health," but Mom and Dad still entrusted him with the care of their son?

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Juliet, I wonder if they meant that online speculation has turned into a flood of non-stop phone calls, etc. In the interview, the dad said the sheriff's office only has 2 phone lines. Sounds like a very small operation.

Anonymous said...

If the grandpa was immediately ruled out due to his physical and mental health, I also wonder why they would leave a toddler with him in such a dangerous location (next to a drop off and creek in the forest...and by a campfire). And it has been said that they had never met Isaac before this trip so I have no clue how they could trust their son around him. That is crazy.

Anonymous said...

* Considering all the "hearsay" and "negative speculation" going the rounds, why are the parrents not telling the world that they passed the polygraph?

* "If they're still at the campsite, how are they updating Facebook? Must be great cell/wifi service up in the mountains" said Anon on July 22.

* "By the looks of [Reinwand's] FB page, he doesn't appear to be the type that most elderly folks would want to go on camping trips with...." He also doesn't appear to be the ideal babysitter??

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Just a few quick thoughts on this latest development (if what we've been told by Mom & Dad is true):

1. Deorr said "We were going exploring...". Who is "we"? I think he'd like us to assume that he means he and Jessica.
2. Deorr also said "He [little Deorr] was with Grandpa." Jessica clarified with "He [little Deorr] was with my grandfather." Note that neither of them said Deorr was with Grandpa and Isaac. So, back to #1- Who was going exploring?
3. It's says something of their parenting and relationship with their son that Deorr and Jessica would leave an energetic, "very attached to us" two-year old with a grandparent, in the middle of nowhere. Factor in that little Deorr was likely overtired, overstimulated, and maybe "difficult". Remember at this point in the story, Mom & Dad have related that he was filthy & crying at the store, being fed candy by Daddy, before 1:00 with naptime looming in an hour).
4. It's worse that there was no actual face-to-face conversation, asking said grandparent to watch their son and Grandpa's verbal confirmation...only an assumption, according to their own words.
5. It's unbelievably negligent that they left him in the care of his grandpa, whom they knew to be physically and mentally declining. Police confirmed today what concerned people were sharing on social media. If LE knew grandpa was physically and mentally compromised from Day One of the investigation, there's no way Jessica (at least) didn't know.
6. It's pretty unbelievable that, if they left little Deorr with Grandpa and Isaac, that the toddler just disappeared. Why? Because only Grandpa "turned his head for a moment..."- Isaac didn't. Nod to Peter Hyatt here: Linguistically speaking, Isaac is non-existent at this part of the action in the conversation. Why? We can understand an active toddler possible getting away from a physically slower grandparent, but not from a 35 year old man standing there too. So, where exactly was Isaac?
7. It's inexcusable and negligent if Deorr, Jessica, and Isaac "were going exploring" and "he [little Deorr] was going to be good with Grandpa by the fire."...assuming aged, ailing, and mentally slower Grandpa could just watch little Deorr.
8. It's pathetic and disgusting that Neither Deorr nor Jessica takes responsibility for their actions, resulting in their child missing. They are more than willing to set poor, defenseless Grandpa up for the fall and pin all the blame on him, with their interview and their vigil speech.

So, back to #1 - Who was going exploring? Is this a case of we had to bring Grandpa along because Jessica's getting paid to take care of him, so he can watch the baby while we go do our adult thing (whatever exploring means: exploring, do some drugs, ride our dirt bikes/four-wheeler, etc.)? They fail to place Isaac with Grandpa in their statements, watching little Deorr...so we can't either.

Anonymous said...

Did you see the creepy video of Isaac that was released today? The article mentions the rape charge someone else here brought up. The reporter probably woke him up but he seems wasted, too. I am not sure if he is involved or if he really ever even saw Deorr (regardless of what he mumbles in the interview). He is not very convincing at all. Not sure he says enough to analyze.

Anonymous said...

yep, who dresses their toddler in camo and leaves him in the care of an elderly old man with physical and mental issues, and some guy they just met (who is a supposed friend of gramps but is less than half his age) by a campfire, rugged drop-off, and stream with potential wild animals around...and a camp fire. Loser parents, that is who.

Anonymous said...

Why would grandpa be called out for "turning his head for a minute" if he didn't even know he was supposed to be watching the kid? Which is it, he turned his head and the kid "disappeared" or he didn't know he was supposed to be watching him? I feel so bad for the grandpa -- he should have never been put in "whatever" situation he was put in and is probably devastated with guilt. The parents are so shady!

Juliet said...

Anon-at 10.20 - Well, he's angry, and probably can't bring himself to think badly of Jessica and DeOrr, and is not willing to believe he might possibly have been deceived in some way, or that they hadn't told the whole story. He's the one who has to deal with the impact on his children of DeOrr's disappearance, it would be even worse if he had to explain that it was not as told - I can't imagine how difficult it must be, trying to keep life normal for them all with all the stuff that must be going on in his head. It's terrible for all the family, but aside from the parents in either their knowing or not knowing, he has the heaviest burden. The reaction is understandable, but no -one can stop people asking questions and wanting clearer information from the parents about what happened that day, and why no-one was looking after DeOrr, why he was not properly accounted for as a defenceless toddler in an hazardous environment. What they have said so far doesn't add up or make sense,, but if they can say more to help clarify their account, why don't they? That's my take on Brennon, anyway.

Juliet said...

Anonymous at 1.11 - yes, that could be it, I had forgotten there were only two lines.

Anonymous said...

DeOrr Sr. gets the Snake and Salmon river confused and the whole sentence is a mess. I find the confusion odd, but if the parents are guilty perhaps they chose the Salmon River area to create their alibi because of the poor signal strength, the remoteness and the certainty that the little boy would never be found because he'd never been there in the first place. Keep the searchers busy looking there or saying he was kidnapped. Steer them away from the Snake river which runs right through Idaho Falls which has good cell coverage. Law enforcement has surely checked all of their cell phone/gps records.

Anonymous said...

From Brennon's postings and pictures on FB, he appears to be a great dad.

ccapriciouss said...

From what I understand the parents took drug tests. Marijuana stays in your system for 30 days at least

ccapriciouss said...

Wasn't it said that the parents took a drug test? Marijuana stays in your system for over 30 days so it would have shown

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