Friday, September 11, 2015

Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Issue Statement





The following was given to media by Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz after the  2 month mark of their toddler's disappearance.

“Please keep your eyes out for our precious baby boy. We miss him so much and just want him home where he belongs. If you have our son, please don’t hurt him just bring him home to us. We love you so much Lil Man. Thank you to everyone for your loving words and kindness.”

147 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is it me or is this statement just a mash-up of their previous statements? Why would they choose to say the same things again, rather than issue a new statement?

-KC

p.s. - United we stand. Together we fall. Prayers to all those affected by 9/11 on this anniversary.

Juliet said...

'EastIdahoNews.com is reaching out to the family and investigators for more information. We will have a detailed report Friday with the very latest on the search for DeOrr Kunz.'

Also, Jessica has re-activated her Facebook.

Anonymous said...

Juliet she has had it reactivated for awhile now.
Hope they have some news.
Prayers for little Deorr and their family.

Apple said...

This is unexpected from parents who believe their child was abducted.

Juliet said...

Yes, I know, but there wasn't an easy to find DeOrr thread to mention it on. I doubt there will be any real news - wondering if any family members will be making an appeal, or if the PI, if they still have him, will appear. Keep an eye out for him, hey - just in case he should toddle past someone's window. :-/

John mcgowan said...

"Please keep your eyes out for our precious baby boy. We miss him so much and just want him home where he belongs. If you have our son, please don’t hurt him just bring him home to us. We love you so much Lil Man. Thank you to everyone for your loving words and kindness.”

"We miss him so much and just want him home where he belongs."


Given this is a short brief statement, and assuming they are addressing (which i shouldn't) the public whom are aware of the situation. The need to express how much they "miss him" and "Just want him home where he belongs" is a need to persuade. It is akin to saying "i kissed my son / daughter goodnight and said i love you" We all do it but don't feel the need to say. However, to bring it into an open statement (if this is what it is, ("free editing") For me, is concerning.

Anonymous said...

John very true, but on the other hand they might have said it because of the social media uproar with this case. If they don't say it, then they don't miss him. If they do, then it's a need to persuade. JMO. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
And the Backward Speech troll and his little minions are hard pressed for any info so much that they actually took background feed from a short video of Jessica playing with little Deorr, blowing on his belly, and said that Deorr Sr. was in the background talking about pressure and sharks and turned it into the parents needing money to pay a loan shark and little deorr was caught in the mix.

Comes out later that it wasn't Deorr Sr in the background, it was a movie, Stepbrothers with Will Farrell. He actually tried to analyse that and got caught to which he never apologised, just deleted his post. Lol
(All I can think of is the beetles "Paul is dead" lol)

On the EAST IDAHO NEWS Facebook page Deorr Sr. wrote that they did another interview with the news, so I'm waiting for that to come out.

Jessica Blans said...

“Please keep your eyes out for our precious baby boy. We miss him so much and JUST want him home where he belongs. If you have our son, please don’t hurt him JUST bring him home to us. We love you so much Lil Man. Thank you to everyone for your loving words and kindness.”

The use of "JUST" two times seems odd. Maybe it's too obvious, but after 2 months, I'd think they'd want a lot more than "JUST want him home. On the one hand, "just" is used to lessen the power of the subsequent words (I'll just take one bite," It'll just take one minute.") On the other hand, "just" is used to narrow/sharpen the focus (I just like blue M&Ms), which is akin to making the subject have more power.

How are the parents using "just"? "JUST want him home" = that's all we're asking/no big deal. Or "JUST want him home" = we want him home so badly that we won't prosecute you if he's been injured or abused, etc...

Jessica Blans

Anonymous said...

Why can't they say his name? "I/we miss you so much Deorr..." etc. Why are they calling out a nickname?

Anonymous said...

From East Idaho News page, visitor posts by Maridee Duckett....


For anyone who believes in Kellen Marson and Backward Speech please read this...
You may have heard the latest speech reversal by Kellen Marson (which he has now removed), where he first points out that in this video of Jessica Mitchell playing with Baby Deorr there is a conversation in the background. Deorr Sr and 2 other voices are talking according to Kellen.
Kellen suggests you listen to the video first to judge for yourself what was said, and then listen to his reversal.
He says this is positive undeniable proof that the parents were involved in something bad.
In the video this is what you hear according to Kellen…
Deorr says, "It’s my (efin) son, take what you want. You guys got the shark, that’s the important thing.”
Then someone says…”okay, no pressure, no pressure."
Then one of them says…”Come on dad. Alright, relax. I gotta go.””
That’s Kellen’s version of what was said once he cleaned up the background noise.
Obviously Deorr had hired these guys to take care of a loan shark.
He also stated that Deorr was worried about his sons safety.
In the reversals he suggests something about someone getting a check, something about paradise, and something about shooting someone dead.
I should have stood back just to see what he would come up with next but instead I posted this on his page:
“It’s the scene from a movie paying in the background genius!”
Step Brothers
Time – Phrase
00:41:41 You go in my closet, take whatever you need. You guys gotta look sharp.
00:41:45 This is the most important day of our lives.
00:41:47 - Okay. - No pressure, no pressure.
00:41:48 - All right? Relax. - Okay.
00:41:50 I gotta go. I gotta go.
Within seconds of my comment he deleted the entire post from his facebook page and from the East Idaho News Facebook page and from his website.
He did say that he had sent this information to another news station, and to the FBI and Lemhi County Sheriff. Also talked about sending it to Nancy Grace. LOL I hope he did!
He is a FRAUD and what he is doing is so undeniably wrong.

Thought I woke share this so you could read it.

Juliet said...

They are addressing by turn, the public, the 'abductor', little DeOrr, and those who support and believe them. It's so disconnected from the supposed reality of the situation; if he's been abducted, he will be hidden from sight, so keeping eyes out for him will not help find him. Also, an abductor is not likely to 'bring him home' , unless they are thinking a family member or a friend has him, and will just ring the doorbell and hand him over one day, having had a change of heart - how likely is that? It's not what I would expect - as in utter desperation, and pleading, if really they believe someone has him. I am keeping in mind DeOrr's strange response to Nate Eaton's question regarding the missing child who was discovered at a campsite and wrongly identified as DeOrr by one media outlet - as though he knew it could not have been little DeOrr.

Jessica Blans said...

Oh my goodness, I just read the post about the backwards speech guy. (So there's another meaning of "just." Sometimes "just" means we did something recently).

But that is hysterical about backwards guy writing and posting an analysis of a movies playing in the background. I think most people on this site had him pegged as a fraud already, but there is something enjoyable about seeing the fraud expose himself.

Anonymous said...

How 'bout: All we want is our Lil Man back home....signed family

Just implies they don't want arrest. Just implies it's as simple as returning him to us.

It isn't.

I don't believe the tale of the old Buick myself.

Anonymous said...

Jessica Blans isn't that something???
What a loon!!! Hahaha

Like I said above, Deorr Sr said on the East Idaho News post that they have done another interview with Nate, so I'm waiting for the interview to come out.
Hopefully we will know more then.

Anonymous said...

UPDATE: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/09/deorr-kunz-family-remains-hopeful-two-months-after-toddler-disappeared/

Jessica Blans said...

Anonymous at 3:23 -- Gotcha. Good possibility!

Now I'm going to read the update.

Jessica Blans

Bethany said...

Looking forward to Peter's analysis....

Juliet said...

I don't think any of them use DeOrr's name - looking out on YouTube in hope of a less edited version of the interview, but none so far. Lots of 'you' and 'that baby' distancing language (?) -and Jessica doesn't speak at all. :-/

Anonymous said...

Oh this doesn't sound good at all.
Mom still isn't talking.

I am hoping they have an unedited interview to watch.

"We have become silent, and because we don't want them focused on us, we want them focused on this baby."
Grandma


C5H11ONO said...

Could the statement have been prepared by the father? It appears to me that is was written by Deorre as opposed to the mom.


Anonymous said...

What troubles me is that mom doesn't look at the camera. It is as though she is hanging her head in shame. She reminds me of Terri Horman in the family group interview. It is not expected, to me, that she would not look at the camera as some point. Perhaps, she did and it was cut from the segment. RRH

Juliet said...

'It was the last place WE seen that baby' - grandma Clegg. We? She wasn't there...

Juliet said...

What does that 'we' mean in terms of following the pronouns?

Juiet said...

Here's my transcript, do check it against the audio though :)

Nate Eaton: It’s been two months and no trace of missing Idaho Falls toddler DeOrr Kunz. There’s still as many questions today as there was eight weeks ago, and DeOrr’s family says they want answers and they want their boy back.
DeOrr: You hope for him to come home. You hope – you hope – to find him – but you also hope to have closure one way or another. You go crazy - and you don’t know what the h-, what to do next. So my hope for
NE: Clutching his fiancee’s hand, DeOrr Kunz Sr describes the heartache he says his family has been through since their two year old son disappeared.
DeOrr: I hope that he’s okay, and in my mind that’s what keeps me going.
NE: The family believes little DeOrr was abducted from the Timber Creek campground on July 10th. They say since he disappeared they’ve spent thousands of hours in Leadore searching for any clue that could lead to the young boy.
Trina Clegg: If we feel he was abducted, why do we continue to search up there? And why not? It was the last place we seen that baby, it was the last place we know that that baby was and so, how can you not?
NE: The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office is also continuing search efforts. Thursday, on the two month anniversary of DeOrr’s disappearance, Sheriff Lyn Bowerman says his chief deputy and several K9s were in the area. Flyers are being posted asking hunters to keep an eye open for any sign of DeOrr.
Trina Clegg: We would just do anything for someone to just walk up and hand us that little boy. He’s so greatly missed. Uhh – we, we don’t go a day without having nightmares, of just praying for answers, and just hoping that someone will just come forward and just tell us the truth of what’s happened.
Yes. I mean some kind of answers..
NE: DeOrr’s family says the past eight weeks have been heartbreaking, and they’ve tried to stay out of the spotlight so the focus remains on finding their boy.
Trina Clegg: We have become silent, and, because we don’t want them focussed on us, we want them focussed on this baby.
NE: Right now the FBI is reviewing the case and a report is expected within weeks. Detectives say DeOrr’s parents, DeOrr Sr and Jessica Mitchell, have been co-operative, so have Robert Walton, DeOrr Jr’s great-grandfather, and Isaac Reinwand, a family friend who was on the camping trip, and even though it’s been two months since they’ve seen their little boy, the family believes he’s still alive and they will see him again.
Jerry Mitchell: We just hope and have faith that he’ll be returned to us safe, you know, that’s all we’re praying for.
Trina Clegg: I need just to have my daughter to have her son back, I need DeOrr to have his son back so he can raise his son, and us as a family, we just. we need that little boy.
DeOrr: Keep your eyes open. For those of you with your kind words n’, it does help. N’ then, you know, there’s been good people, and I want to thank those people.
NE: Again, that report from the FBI is expected within the next few weeks. Stay with East Idaho News dot com for the very latest on this continuing story. Reporting in Idaho Falls, I’m Nate Eaton, East Idaho News dot com.

Juliet said...

'The minute I called my mom - and she was up there in a matter of hours.' - Jessica - first interview.

Trina Clegg: If we feel he was abducted, why do we continue to search up there? And why not? It was the last place we seen that baby, it was the last place we know that that baby was and so, how can you not? - Interview aired today.

Juliet said...

Comments made today, with responses from DeOrr, on East Idaho News Facebook page:

Lori Jablon This news needs to go bigger and wider than FB and Idaho.
Like · Reply · 1 · 53 mins

DeOrr Kunz Not yet but hopeing soon
Like · Reply · 22 · 18 hrs

Maridee Dukett Praying for you and your family. May God bless you greatly.
Like · Reply · 3 · 17 hrs

DeOrr Kunz Thank you and God bless you
Like · Reply · 4 · 17 hrs
Dexter Beasley Everybody knows this baby couldn't get that far someone had to take him how could no one not see please get out on news stations and let it be known your baby is gone Facebook is not going to work everybody don't have Facebook I'm from fla only know because seen on Nancy grace
Like · Reply · 2 · 3 hrs

Dexter Beasley If you were part of my family I would be on the news for you because I know it can be hard in a situation like this no one can even begin to know how you feel unless it has happen to them so family help please get out there on tv
Like · Reply · 3 hrs

DeOrr Kunz We were on the news yesterday will be out today I believe on the news to keep him in people's hearts and minds
Like · Reply · 5 · 1 hr


Katie Harkness They know what happened to that little boy. They need to tell the truth.
Like · Reply · 5 · 2 hrs


DeOrr Kunz Because they pick and choose what they put on if I didn't stare at the camera for 45 min strait for some of you I'm sorry but not under my control you don't know how an interview works and Katie hardness you seem so sure ? I wish I knew what you what knew cause the face book detectives like your self have put it all together and figured out your heads are in your asses just a bit to far
Like · Reply · 6 · 1 hr

Caroline O'Connor Colussi DeOrr I pray every day that your precious boy is found soon! Is your PI Mr. Vilt still working with you? Has he found any leads that the public can help with?
Like · Reply · 1 hr

DeOrr Kunz Thank you for your prayers and yes he is and he will be on the news as well soon about that
Like · Reply · 2 · 1 hr

Juliet said...

A forty-five minute interview, and so little of it aired. :-/ DeOrr is covering for Jessica there -it was she who did not look into the camera, in the little of what has been aired, at least.

Anonymous said...

The sheriff thinks grandpa's friend may have done something nefarious. Maybe grandpa fell asleep and didn't want to admit it. Maybe the parents were gone a little longer than 10 or 15 minutes and didn't want to admit it, either.

The Buick report was just in case. Just in case someone muddied the water.

The question is: if the dogs hit on cremated remains at the water line, why would anyone be interested in muddying the water?

Hopefully they'll find he floated down stream and was trapped under brush.

Who looks into the camera when media isn't to be trusted?

Anonymous said...

Why haven't they posted the uncut version?? That's what we need to see although I noticed mom sniffing with no tears. Now, this article regarding the PI offering a 10K reward and that he and the family are going back to the scene and doing a re-enactment to prove they are innocent?? Who the hell is this PI? A re-enactment? With 4 people? OMG...I cannot even believe the absurdity of that scenario. Also, the family has remained silent?? NO they haven't. They have been on SM every single day spewing venomous and vulgar statements to anyone who doesn't buy their story. I can't wait till the uncut interview shows up online. THAT will be a great SA lesson.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/10000-reward-offered-for-leads-in-missing-toddler-case/35229162

Juliet said...

No, the questions are:

Trina Clegg: If we feel he was abducted, why do we continue to search up there? And why not? It was the last place we seen that baby, it was the last place we know that that baby was and so, how can you not?

And when did Jessica call her mom, and why, and when did she arrive, if, as she says, 'it was the last place WE seen that baby'? So Trina saw DeOrr at the campsite - and what happened then? Or maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, and she didn't mean 'we' at all, and we shouldn't follow the pronoun...

She's answering a question (which we don't hear posed) with questions. Does that indicate anything?

Brooke Kaelin said...

Peter,

Does this qualify as the mother being "emotionally incapable" of calling out to her son?

Also, I know some here disagree but I still believe DeOrr's boots are sensitive to the mother. I hope investigators lean on her with regard to them in questioning. It may lead to nothing but as they are now pictured in the center of the missing poster they are distributing, I think it's worth examining.

It looks as though the relationship between DeOrr Sr. and Jessica is still strained, he appears to be holding her back during the interview and she makes a couple of small movements as though she wishes to pull away from him. She's also leaning more toward her mom than him, despite how he's clutching at her.

Juliet said...

My post above is in response to anon at 7,41

Anon at 7,55 - maybe Nate Eaton is fed up with being criticised and intends to make his critics a little more appreciative of him being the only one who is covering the case. I wouldn't blame him. :) Hopefully, they will upload it, or maybe it's not for our benefit, maybe it was done at the request of the FBI, if they work like that.

lynda said...

I don't know why I posted as Anonymous @ 7:55 PM ? I'm logged in?

lynda said...

What are others thoughts on the PI posting the reward and doing a "re-enactment" to prove parents are innocent?? Has this EVER been done before? Am I the only one that feels this is out of the ordinary?

John mcgowan said...

DeOrr: "You hope for him to come home. You hope – you hope – to find him – but you also hope to have closure one way or another. You go crazy - and you don’t know what the h-, what to do next."

Note the distancing language "you". This is unexpected, and is not universal.

Jessica Blans said...

I took some nonverbal comm training and see some significant things, we've seen Jessica Mitchell before and have some baseline readings for her, so the variation from that is important. In previous video she was also still, also did not really acknowledge DeOrr Senior, but it was different than how she is behaving in this interview.

The body language of Jessica Mitchell in this interview is so stark it disturbs me. To me it looks like she is clearly in distress and internalizing it. The drawn-together posture, the tight muscles, the lack of movement. All reminiscent of someone who has survived a traumatic experience and trying to just survive. In addition, she is shifted away from DeOrr Sr. She leans her head towards her mom and away from him. She crosses her leg away from him. Deorr Sr. is clutching her hand with one of his hands and using his other hand to hold her arm down (so she cannot take it away). She is doing inward lip rolls, often associated with anxiety. Her breath is shallow and quick once her mom starts talking. Her lip corners are pulled down throughout and this a reliable indicator of sadness. Her nostrils flare at least once and this is reliable for anger (it was connected to a sniff, though, so I'm less sure of this.). Her mom is stroking her hand fairly hard, more of a therapeutic touch than a reassuring touch. When there is a shot of the Baby DeOrr bracelets, at 1:45, Jessica's hand is like a claw behind hand with bracelets. It's as if it's still in the same position it was to hold her mom's hand, even though her mom seems to have removed her hand in order to display the bracelets. Jessica moves more when her mom is speaking. She is frozen when DeOrr Sr is speaking.

Deorr Sr said, "I hope he's ok (pause) in my mind that's what keeps me going." I don't think there is an "and" between "ok" and "in my mind." Could it be leakage? "I hope he's ok in my mind."

This is so sad. I've lost quite a bit of hope -- maybe lost all of my hope -- based on this interview. I'm extrapolating that Jessica knows something now that she didn't know before and is barely keeping herself together.

Jessica Blans

Juliet said...

Well, I wonder who is taking the role of DeOrr - they 'll need a two year old in oversized cowboy boots to demonstrate how he was abducted, or how he fell into the creek, or how he managed to wander out of sight and earshot of everyone, including SAR, quite so quickly. Absurd doesn't begin to cover it, but maybe that's the point. And £10,000 might seem attractive to someone who may know something and who is sick of the whole charade. Well, presuming it is one. I wonder why Jessica's father was included in the line-up. Interview, rather.

Come on, East Idaho news, give us more of the interview, please!

lynda said...

I don't know which blog it is on but I know I did a transcript of the sheriff's uncut interview. Peter, did you ever analyze that? Did I miss it?

Jessica Blans said...

Juliet,

My 2 cents. Her mother says, "we" because she is the voice of her daughter in this interview. She is speaking for Jessica as Jessica seems incapable of doing so herself. So Trina is speaking for Jessica, but because she is not Jessica, the pronoun, "we" seems to be the best choice. Saying "her" or "you" would have seemed to distance her from Jesica, something Trina would not want to do. Is it possible to say that "we" is aligning her closer with her daughter, as opposed to distancing her from her daughter?

I had no idea Trina is so young. I pictured her about 15-20 years older than she is...

Jessica Blans

Buckley said...

He seems about to say "You don't know what the hell happened" but stops himself and says "...what to do next."

lynda said...

According to daddy's original statement, they were "all within 150 feet of each other" so are they going to place "that baby" in the middle, have everyone look away at the same time and also for the same length of time and have someone drop out of the sky and snatch the baby and then go back up into the sky? This re-enactment is really unseemly to me, almost like they are mocking the disappearance.

Buckley said...

The transcript is in the Aug 17 William Ebron thread. Peter did not analyze it in full.

Juliet said...

Jessica -I don't know - what you say does seem feasible, but why does she not say 'that's where Jessica and DeOrr last saw him?' She is able to speak of them individually when she says they need their son back, only including herself in 'us as a family' also needing 'that little boy' back. She doesn't say his name, and doesn't call him her grandson, it all seems rather distancing, yet she includes herself in seeing little DeOrr at the campsite. I hope Peter might comment on this as I would like to know if there are times when the pronouns shouldn't be quite so religiously followed. :) I know sometimes people will hijack 'we' to include themselves in something they would have liked to be part of, or to attempt to take credit for something which didn't involve them, but I don't know if anyone would want to say 'we' of something they would not want to have been involved in.

Juliet said...

Lynda - it was Sheriff Bowerman who said they were within a hundred to a hundred and fifty feet of each other.

"Isaac was in the same general proximity. He’s downstream, they’re upstream and they’re all within probably 100 to 150 feet of each other.”

Juliet said...

Buckley - I thought he was going to say 'You don't know what the hell to do next' - where did you get the 'happened' from? :)

lynda said...

Thanks Buckley!

Juliet: You're right on the Sheriff...I would take what he said as closest to the truth. 100 feet of each other and they think he was abducted?? We saw where they were, the land goes UP, Daddy himself said that you can "see" everything. I wonder if they're going to film the re-enactment? Then what? I guess the FBI will then say, "Yep, y'all are right, there isn't any way that y'all could be involved."

Buckley said...

Yeah, that makes makes more sense!

Brooke Kaelin said...

Juliet,

This is just my two cents, with the pronoun "we"...using "we" seeks to share responsibility. If it were my daughter who had lost her son and was clearly in emotional distress like Jessica is, I might well use the pronoun "we" to share responsibility, if only to lessen her pain.

Peter and some of the experts here may have a different explanation (and I think Trina knows more than she's saying during the interview too..)but I can see "we" being used that way.

Angelica said...

I know nothing about this case. Where is there more info?

Looking at the statement Peter posted, I see nothing concerning except for this:

"If you have our son, please don't hurt him just bring him home to us."

Something about this statement is very odd.

It is too casual.

Either the parents would be in denial that an abductor might harm their son, or, were they not in denial, I believe they would express some kind of terror or begging towards the abductor to not harm their son. The whole statement "please don't hurt him just bring him home to us." just seems quite casually stated to me.

I do not know the story behind this missing person case though.

Buckley said...

"Where is there more info?"

Use the search feature on the right for "Kunz".

Brooke Kaelin said...

Jessica Blans,

Thank you for posting your body language analysis. I'm a hobbyist at nonverbal reading and it was helpful to me for someone who has had training to weigh in and write down what they saw. I hope others who have studied it will share too.

I noticed the lip compressions and inward rolls too, and also the rubbing together of her fingers and her tongue going over her teeth with her mouth closed. All adapters...plus struggling to breathe. She's definitely leaning away from DeOrr Sr. and I think was a little afraid of what her mother might say because she demonstrates the most reaction while her mom spoke, even more than when her husband talked. Juliet mentioned her mom using the pronoun "we" when she was never at the campsite. Could this indicated shared knowledge?

Jessica Blans said...

I want to mention something about my brief nonverbal analysis above. My teacher would be annoyed because I did the shortcut version. I should have documented the time markers for each behavior, described the behavior and given at least 2 explanations for the behavior. At the end I should have gone back and examined all the noted behaviors in order to make a judgement. I did this in my head, but didn't include it in my comment and realize that I should done the full analysis so you could follow better.

Jessica Blans

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Frankly, the statement released by or on behalf of Jessica and Daddy DeOrr is hitting me all wrong. The wording lacks any sense of urgency or anguish...which is unexpected given that he's 1 1/2, it's been 2 months, and he's supposed to be their whole world. An abduction without repeated media pleas, missing the deadline for a national show like Nancy Grace covering your child's "abduction" (no statement, a no-show, not even a family member repping for you)= Unexpected.
Linguistically, "keep your eyes out" bothers me. It's not "Please keep looking!", "Please keep sharing DeOrr's picture and the tipline number.", or "If you see a child resembling DeOrr, please call the tipline at ______."
"We miss him so much and just want him home where he belongs." concerns me. We naturally presume a child belongs at home, unless we're aware of prior issues. That Jessica & DeOrr need to state this is worrisome. I'm reminded of their 1st interview during the abduction discussion when Jessica blurts out "Who would do this to us?". It concerns me more that Trina (Jessica's mother) states in the follow-up interview today "I need just to have my daughter to have her son back." Yet, of Daddy DeOrr, she says "I need DeOrr to have his son back so he can raise his son...". Why does she differentiate between them? Because Jessica is not raising her other two children?
I wonder how much DeOrr & Jessica's situation/history factor into this (his initial job supposedly falling through, his current truck driving job,them living for the last year with DeOrr's dad, Jessica being the non-custodial parent, their living together w/o being married, etc.). Are any or all of these factors that would prompt someone who knows them very well to "rescue" DeOrr? Someone who thinks they could better provide for little DeOrr?

Angelica said...

Buckley,

Thanks. I just went on youtube and I am now caught up on the case, watched an extended parent interview, news report and an interview with the sheriff.

I find in the parents' (mostly the father who does most of the talking) language a lack of concrete details about baby DeOrr when giving a play by play of what happened surrounding the time of his disappearance at the campsite that makes me wonder if baby DeOrr was ever actually brought to the campsite.
What I was listening for is one specific detail such as "baby DeOrr had been running around", baby DeOrr liked to be near the campfire", baby DeOrr wanted to come with us exploring but we told him to stay with Grandpa".

Please watch the extended parents' interview. It is what I am not hearing that is making me think baby DeOrr was never actually brought camping, rather was harmed prior to the camping trip.

Angelica said...

I believe he was harmed/killed before the camping trip. The camping trip is the perfect cover for this group of perpetrators. They can claim abduction, falling into creek, any number of large animals grabbing him.

There is no concrete language used by the parents describing baby DeOrr's actual presence at the campsite.

Juliet said...

Thanks, Brooke - I can see that might be so, though in her position, I would not be sharing that much responsibility as it would also be my little grandson who was unaccounted for -so I would be more likely to say, 'we know that's the last place they saw him' - which would still be to express belief in them. How can one share in responsibility for a missing baby if one was not even present when he or she went missing? Not to say Trina can't, or isn't trying to do that, just that I don't know if anyone would actually seek to share responsibility in regard to a missing grandchild - it's not a common enough event for there to be a typical type of behaviour, I don't think.

Anonymous said...

Juliet-

I think you are right about the strangeness of the pronoun "we," but I think there is a possible explanation for it.

Trina was answering questions on websleuths a month or so ago. Many people wondered if there was any proof that DeOrr was ever at the campground, and how Trina could know such a thing for sure.

Trina said that she knew for a fact he was there because she found one of his diapers at the campsite the day he went missing. She said she threw it away in the trash receptacle set up by some of the church volunteers.

Of course I can't vouch for the truthfulness of this statement, but I think maybe:

a. She saw his diaper, and therefore considers this to be the last place she saw him.
or
b. Where DeOrr was last seen is a sensitive issue for her, because it was questioned by so many people. She may feel she needs to bolster the contention that he was ever at the campground.

This is just a thought. Her comments have been deleted, but were copied and reposted on other sites. If you're interested, I can try to find them for some SA.

K.M.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for transcribing the interview, Juliet.

It was strange to hear Trina say "we" (imagine if it was revealed that Trina really did see Baby DeOrr at the campsite!) but
I have to agree that Trina is speaking for Jessica as well as DeOrr Snr. and her father when she says "...last place we seen that baby".

IMO, she is also speaking for them when she says "We have been silent because we don't want them focussed on us." (CLANG!)

I have heard the request to "focus on the victim...not me/us" many times from people who have subsequently been found to be guilty.

The reenactment is bizarre and macabre. It will not prove the parents' innocence. Far from it. It will not prove anything other than the unlikelihood of abduction and animal attack; and provide another opportunity to throw greatgrandpa under the bus.

Anonymous said...

I'm curious to know what people think about the use of "Lil' Man." Do you think that using a nickname in this statement is potentially indicative of a bad relationship? A need to persuade the audience that they are loving parents?

I think this is different from when Jessica told us "we have nicknames for him" without needing to quote herself, since they actually used his nickname.

K.M.

Angelica said...

In the sheriff's interview, he states that NO TRACES of baby DeOrr were found at the campground. NOTHING.

Anon K.M.. I believe the use of the term "Lil' Man" is a need to persuade. Keep in mind, Baby DeOrr will not be reading the statement, therefore it is for the benefit of the public.

Angelica said...

If anyone is interested, here is the link for the interview with sheriff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M

Angelica said...

Also, the 911 call from the mother is out!

The transcript appears on the screen,

Note where she refers to him in past tense, saying "he was wearing..."

Here is the 911 call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDq-nJs17xQ

Juliet said...

Angelica -DeOrr Sr said 'he was right there with us, where it was at...' and that's about as concrete as it ever got. There is the six o' clock store sighting, which might put little DeOrr in Leadore at six pm on the Thursday.

K.M - thanks for the diaper reminder - I recall that Trina said it was from the Friday; there should have been more than one, however, if they were there from the Thursday - still, perhaps there were others, and they already had disposed of them. (She made those comments on the KTVB Facebook page originally, though they may have been posted on Websleuths later - they are all on earlier DeOrr threads here).

Anon at 10,59pm - yes, poor great-grandpa, and Isaac, I suspect, but I don't know why. Well, just because the whole camping trip, so far from home with a tot and ageing ill grandpa, seems so unlikely and bizarre, and I think they may have been ill-used - did either of them even see little DeOrr, and when did they arrive, when did Trina arrive, and when did grandpa and Isaac leave? Did Trina leave to take Grandpa home, or did they all stay at the campsite throughout the early days of the search? These things we don't know. Trina wanted people to know that the camping site was grandpa's idea, though they hadn't been there in twenty-seven years, or thereabouts. And there was a 'little business' going on, according to the Sheriff. So who was trading what, with whom, and why? It's all so weird.


Angelica said...

Does Peter know the 911 call is out?

The mother when asked to state emergency does not state emergency but immediately begins alibi building.

If Peter hears/reads the 911 call, he will declare the parents guilty, no doubt about it.

Anonymous said...

With whackos like the backwards speech guy out there, can you blame them, or anyone, for not wanting to speak publicly? What can they say that will bring their baby back home? If he was kidnapped, has any kidnapper ever watched a parent begging on tv and decided to bring the baby back? If he fell into the water and washed downstream, is talking on tv going to bring him back? I don't know what the truth is about this case but I do know, I would personally dread speaking in public if I ended up in a situation like this, knowing the way people would rip anything I said apart online.

Juliet said...

K.M - I think to keep on referring to him as 'Little Man', as they do, is depersonalising of DeOrr as a real little boy who has his own real name, full stop. Then I think that's too harsh, and it's probably a cultural thing of which I understand nothing. Is it very important for little boys to be tough, and like little men, in that part of the world, perhaps - even at two years old? I don't know what it means - here boys are boys, and when they are around twelve, people will begin to comment how they are becoming quite the young man, but at two, no. I don't get it, but different people, different strokes. Names are so bound up with the person's identity, though - I don't know why anyone would favour a generic term over their child's own name. It's a very nice name, too - but perhaps just too many of them in the family. It is strange though, that they have avoided using his real name in the statement. I do wonder if that's actually because they called him something else, so 'DeOrr' doesn't come naturally to them, the public wouldn't recognise another name, but we all know they also call him 'Little Man'. Someone somewhere said they normally call him DJ - as he's DeOrr Jay that could be the case.

Juliet said...

Angelica - here is Peter's analysis of Jessica's 911 call:
http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/statement-analysis-911-call-of-missing.html

If you go through the July and August archives you will find all the earlier blog posts about DeOrr.

Anonymous said...

Angelica,

Thanks for the tip about the 911 call, I just listened.

Do you know if there has been any explanation for why Jessica said he had been missing for about an hour? In the interview they said they were "exploring" for ten minutes, and searched for him for twenty.

What do you think about when the dispatcher asks "What is he wearing?" and she replies "He was wearing cowboy boots..."

Maybe "was" is appropriate, since it is what he "was" wearing when he disappeared. Still, I would think it would be more appropriate to use "is" wearing if she thinks she is going to find him. It's not like he changed clothes in that hour.

I also thought it was strange that she had to be prompted so much by the 911 operator. She doesn't sound frantic, she waits for the operator to ask questions, like an interview.

It is very suspicious that they found no trace of him at the campground, and Trina says she found an item that would place him there, and then threw it away.

K.M.

Anonymous said...

Juliet-

I think you are right that they probably did not call him DeOrr because that was his father's name as well. I think that is probably a valid explanation for why they do not use his name in the statements.

That is really interesting that someone says they called him DJ. If that's true, that makes me very suspicious. I have never heard the parents say that once. Wouldn't the parents want the whole world to know what name he is normally called? That way if somebody thought they saw him, they could see if he responded to that name.

I think it is possible that they called him little man often. But if they did, I think it is weird that DeOrr Sr. didn't call him that during the first interview, when he was addressing him directly. He called him son, and then he called him buddy.

I think you are spot-on in both assessments: they didn't call him DeOrr all the time, and they are depersonalizing him. DeOrr, Little DeOrr, lil' man, buddy, son, DJ; they are always calling him something different. As his parents they should know which name or nickname he responds to the most. Why not keep using it? They change it every time. Why not make sure we know what it is?

K.M.

Anonymous said...

Why hasn't the father's 911 call been released?

Angelica said...

Juliet,

Thank you for steering me to Peter's analysis! Very interesting!

I see that Peter doesn't agree with the "parents are guilty" take on the 911 call. Hmmm. I see where Peter is coming from, however, having learned from him both from his general rules on 911 calls as well as where he has done in depth analysis of 911 calls, I'm not sure I totally agree with him here although his points are thought-provoking.

K.M.,

The only thing I can figure as far as her saying they searched for an hour is that I believe it took them an hour to call 911 as the husband in an interview said that some of the time delay was accounted for by the fact that he did not want to attempt to call 911 "with only one bar" showing on his cell phone bc he felt the call might be interrupted so he waited until he had driven a mile up the road to get better reception. Which I find PROBLEMATIC.

I find her using past tense troublesome (although I do see Peter's points). I feel that there should have been an urgency that "this IS what he is wearing, please find him type thing". Not much time had passed since she had last seen DEorr, therefore I feel her use of past tense does become problematic.

I find the need for prompting very strange. Most troublesome of all I find that she breaks one of Peter's cardinal 911 call rules in that she does not ask for help for DeOrr. Oftentimes, guilty callers will ask for help for themselves. Here we have a caller who seems calm and sedated. Nowhere does she ask for help for him. For example "Please we need to find him!" "He's only 2 years old! Come quick!" The closest she comes is saying "We can't find him." This is not asking for help for him however. If anything, one could loosely interpret it as being asking for help for themselves.
In the beginning of the call, if one looks closely at the words when asked where is the location of the emergency she says "I'm actually camping in Leadore, just outside of Leodore." (then later she supplies the actual name of the campground when prompted), well, I wonder why wouldn't she just say the name of the campground immediately so they can get there as quick as possible. Instead she says what she was doing, which is camping, and, it may be a stretch, but it could be alibi building. (If he in fact disappeared before the camping trip and they came up with a plan to say he went missing while camping.)
I don't have a good feeling. I think these 2 were involved with his disappearance.

Apple said...

Dexter Beasley If you were part of my family I would be on the news for you because I know it can be hard in a situation like this no one can even begin to know how you feel unless it has happen to them so family help please get out there on tv
Like · Reply · 3 hrs

DeOrr Kunz We were on the news yesterday will be out today I believe on the news to keep him in people's hearts and minds
Like · Reply · 5 · 1 hr
------
"To keep him in people's hearts and minds"

I find this statement unexpected if he is referring to his alive missing son. It is a term commonly used to show support with the death of a loved one.

Juliet said...

KM - I have no way of knowing if the person who said that knew the family, or therefore if they did call him DJ - it only seems quite possible, as it's cute, his initials, and sounds like a name, while DeOrr in a family of DeOrrs (they were living with grandpa also named DeOrr) might have been too confusing for him. Yours is a good point - they should have wanted the whole world to know what name he responded to best, and from the outset - so it's interesting that since the interview, Jessica has not given any clarification on the nicknames. I have difficulty believing it was mainly Lil' Man just because it's so impersonal, it would seem not unlike calling him 'boy' all the time, though 'mini-me' strikes an off-note, too - perhaps I just don't get how some people relate to their children; I suppose some people just hear and then use those terms without giving much thought to it.

John mcgowan said...

$10,000 reward offered for leads in missing toddler case

MONTPELIER, Idaho -
A Montpelier-based private detective working with the family of a missing two-year-old is offering a $10,000 reward for information on his whereabouts.

Thursday marked two months since DeOrr Kunz, Jr. vanished from a campsite near Leadore.

Investigator Frank Vilt said he's convinced Kunz is still alive based on a search of the campsite.

“No remains, no clothing. Nothing up there. The cadaver dogs couldn't find anything. The search dogs couldn't find anything,” said Vilt.

In August, Vilt launched a national hotline which he said received tips from all across the world. One, a possible sighting of Kunz near Caldwell the day after his disappearance, is currently being investigated by the FBI, Vilt said.

Vilt said Kunz's mother also recalls seeing a suspicious-looking man at a store in Leadore the morning of her son's disappearance.

“There was a man who was obsessively staring at the little boy, and it made her feel eerie, it made her feel very uncomfortable,” said Vilt.

Vilt said it's possible DeOrr could have been abducted and sold on the underground adoption market.

“Blonde little boys and girls are very valuable on the underground adoption,” he said.

Monday Vilt and members of the Kunz family will return to the Leadore area to re-enact Kunz's disappearance. Vilt is hoping this proves Kunz was abducted and that his parents played no role in his disappearance.

Vilt's hotline is 888-852-6505.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/10000-reward-offered-for-leads-in-missing-toddler-case/35229162

Anonymous said...

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/09/deorr-kunz-family-remains-hopeful-two-months-after-toddler-disappeared/

Juliet said...

Peter - I have read your book 'Wise as a Serpent, Gentle as a Dove' - you have my thanks for it, and appreciation, along with that you already have for this blog. I am waiting on your Madeleine book, but look forward to the others, too. :)

--

To any reader who might have taken this the wrong way: it became apparent that some might have assumed I was also criticising Peter (who writes in his book that the body of a child was 'dumped' by her parents) when I wrote about the Sheriff or deputy describing someone 'dumping' cremains in the reservoir, and how that was a disrespecting term to use - it would be, of course, if describing a typical scattering of ashes following the death of someone for whom a death certificate had been obtained, which made 'dumping' in that context unexpected. However, 'dumping' is an appropriate word to use when that's what actually happened to the remains of a murder victim, or to a victim of an accidental or unintended death and cover-up - dumped, discarded, got rid of, would all be accurate and fitting descriptions, at least anyone who had done that would have great difficulty in proving otherwise. What I wrote applied to the Sheriff or deputy's unexpected use of the word in the context in which he used it - grieving relatives aren't typically described as 'dumping' the remains of loved ones. I hope that was obvious, but this is to clarify, in case, it was not clear to everyone who read my comments.

As an aside, It's not certain the term came from the sheriff or deputy, anyway - reporters used it, and presumably they were quoting what they had heard, but it may only have been said out of sheer frustration, rather than intended to insult the people who did it.

Juliet said...

John - not merely staring, but now 'obsessively staring' - well, okay, if they say so. An elderly man stares obsessively in a remote store in Leadore and then steals the child from under their noses while they are at the campsite, for the underground adoption market. I'm trying, but it's just not ringing true. :-/. Shades of Madeleine and swarthy gypsies.

Anonymous said...

Just look at the missing childrens page for Idaho. Several boys have been "disappeared" from National Parks in the state. What's odd is the posting of some not even from the state.

Vilt does not think DeOrr was abducted. He's just replaying the same ole' scratched record that kept him employed for many years. If someone wants a blonde child Russia has many on the open market.

Unfortunate enough to hear a social worker and a federal agent discussing an article concerning some mysterious red and green dragon, forced to listen to some of the most disgusting language concerning shoving snack items up each others rectum with the F word utilized frequently, I assume the arms race is contingent upon a bunch of faggots raiding a retail store and shoving the intestines out of any and all little boys. When one started using a similar weapon attempting to shoot a sharp projectile into my face (near my eye), I knew it was time to leave for good. They were not going to let anyone be treated any different there than they do at their regular jobs. They passed the test and cannot be fired.

Although that type of behavior may be regarded highly, it is scary to watch. It's even scarier knowing that no police force is available. Coupled with the orange cow society, the conspiracy theorists, and everyday people trying to make a buck from advertising revenues baiting their neighbors...it's nice to know that 9/11 isn't the saddest day in American history.

Juliet said...

Angelica - the part of the 911 call which I still have questions round, and am still not quite satisfied with, despite having almost settled for other commenter's suggestions, is where Jessica says actually she's camping in Leadore. I keep returning to the 'actually' and wondering if actually they had been camping somewhere else, or even not camping - as you say, alibi building, perhaps. But there's the six o clock sighting on the Thursday - we know they were there on Thursday, and so were at Timber Creek that night. Were they camping though, was it an arranged trip, or did they go there in order to stage a disappearance, or to cover up something which had already happened, or in order to conduct whatever 'business' they were involved in? Why was Jessica so concerned to have the six o clock sighting discounted as a rumour? Were they in Leadore at six with a filthy distressed DeOrr, or did they not arrive until 9.30pm as Trina claimed? It took a long while for the family to establish that they arrived Thursday rather than on the Friday. Why arrive so late, with a little child, and camp to set up? Why go camping in the middle of nowhere with a virtual stranger, and what type of 'business', was being conducted? When was the minute Jessia called her mom, and why did the family ask the public to look out for a black truck and a Chevy?

I wish East Idaho News would upload the full version of the interview! Share and grow. :) They have shown so little of it that I don't think the public could be the intended audience - unless perhaps they plan to make a longer news special from it some time soon.

Buckley said...

The operator asks for the address of the emergency which Jessica cannot provide. "Actually" is used for contrast as in "I can't give you an address, actually we're camping."

Juliet said...

Anon at 9,56 - is there a key to your code? I don't understand whatever language it is you don't speak.

Juliet said...

Buckley - thanks - I know that from earlier discussions, but I still think it could also mean something else.

Juliet said...

Brooke and Jessica - the mouth contortions could also be due to a side-effect of certain medications, as could Jessica's whole demeanour. It's possible she is on some heavy medication - equally possible that she is not. Some anti-psychotic and anti-depressants can cause that.

Juliet said...

It might have been the ' local news 8' Facebook page on which Trina posted her comments about the diaper, rather than KBTV, come to think of it - if it matters, the correct info will be in the archived blog comments. I had them all on my iPad for a while, but have since deleted them, and I don't feel like ploughing through the archives to check.

Oakley A said...

I am not saying this as a judgment. I observed that Jessica's nails were painted up and her hair freshly colored. I do not understand that based on her despondent demeanor during this interview. Her child is still missing and she said nothing.

C5H11ONO said...

Sorry for off topic, but Office depot made a statement as to why they didnt print someone's flyers and is ripe for SA!
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/11/office-depot-backs-down-from-censoring-pro-life-flyer-apologizes-to-customer/

Buckley said...

OT

This looks ripe for SA as well:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/55f1c6ece4b03784e27862f8

Missing Dad Texted Son, 'Did You Hurt Mom?'

Father feared he was being framed for murder.

A missing Connecticut man told his son in a text message that he was worried the son was setting him up for murder, according to court documents.

The text was sent the same day the man and his wife disappeared.
The son, 27-year-old Kyle Navin, of Bridgeport, is the operations manager for his family's refuse company; he was arrested Tuesday on an unrelated gun charge stemming from a police search of his home. The text message exchange was detailed in arrest documents provided to The Huffington Post by the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Connecticut.

Police say the texts were sent Aug. 4, the day Navin's parents, Jeffrey and Jeanette Navin, were last seen. Jeffrey Navin ostensibly sent his son the first text shortly after 12:30 p.m. that day, telling Kyle he was not returning to his home in Easport "till I know mom is okay."

Investigators did not reveal what may have prompted that comment, but the following text message exchange took place directly thereafter, according to an affidavit:
"Did you hurt mom?" Jeffrey Navin texted.
"No absolutely not. Why would you think," Kyle Navin responded.
"I go home and get framed for murder," Jeffrey Navin then texted.
"Oh stop," Kyle Navin texted back.
"I'm going to the police first," Jeffrey Navin said.
"Ok and reason being?" Kyle Navin asked.
Seven minutes later, Jeffrey Navin texted his son, "U R setting me up."
"Dad really what are you talking about?" Kyle Navin replied.

Family members reported Jeffrey and Jeanette Navin missing three days later. On Aug. 9, their truck was found abandoned in nearby Westport, raising concerns for police.

Juliet said...

I would think, whether she feels like it or not, she has to make that effort for the sake of her other children, Oakley - it must be terrible for them all, and it would make things extra miserable if mum looked like she no longer cared enough about anything to be tidy when she has her other children. From her photos, she is normally well-groomed, as are all her children - personally, I don't see anything amiss in her maintaining her appearance. According to Brennon's Facebook, the children went to stay over with their mother last night - I should think that's why she is making the effort.

Sus said...

A few observations in the two month statement:
Their first thought, and thus priority, was to ask others to keep an eye out for Little Deorr.

I always question why parents add "where he belongs" to "bring him home." Is there some reason he would not belong there?

The statement uses three terms for Little Deorr..."our precious baby", "our son", and "Lil Man." I'd like to explore the change in language.

"Our precious baby" is used when asking others to look for him, when he is lost. It brings to mind helpless and needing the care of his parents. Adding precious may be for the audience to show Little Deorr is dear to them, which is a given.

The parents use "our son" while speaking of someone else possibly having him. They are claiming Little Deorr as theirs and asking the possible abductor not to hurt him. This is a strong statement that the parents do not know where Little Deorr is.

They use "Lil Man" (his nickname) when speaking directly to him, telling him they love him.

I could be wrong (it happens quite often) but I find the changes in language appropriate and natural to the statement.

Sus said...

Anon,
Thanks for sharing the backwards speech/ Stepbrothers reference. How funny!

Anonymous said...

"Vilt said it's possible DeOrr could have been abducted and sold on the underground adoption market. “Blonde little boys and girls are very valuable on the underground adoption,” he said."

http://m.localnews8.com/news/10000-reward-offered-for-leads-in-missing-toddler-case/35229162

Anonymous said...

"We hope for him to come home..." sounds like they are waiting for a lost or runaway pet to return.

Anonymous said...

No problem Sus, I'm glad you got a kick out of that.
BSG makes my brain hurt.
As soon as the interview went out he posted on his fb Backwards Speech page
"Hell yes!!! More audio!!!"

He wants everyone to believe that his backwards speech bulls*it is FOR REAL and NOT SOME PSEUDOSCIENCE!!! Except.....anyone that has heard about the "Paul is dead" reversal gets a good laugh out of the fact that SIR PAUL is not dead.
Or is he???
Hahaha

And I agree with you on the language.
I see nothing there that shows guilt.
Thank you for your take on it, I am always interested in what you think.

Anonymous said...

Backwards Speech piece of poop (Kellen Marson) made a Fight For Justice For Deorr fb page with some friends I see. No wonder the family won't speak, take a look at this....

Jessica Mitchell
A lifetime of pain?! Angie are you delusional?! And how dare you say that my Son is deceased!!!! Until you have proof of anything quit running your mouth!!!! You're not a cop or a detective so quit trying to play one! I really really pray that you or anyone else talking crap on my family doesn't ever have to experience the pain of a child going missing. I wouldn't wish this upon anyone! ALL WE WANT IS OUR SON HOME!!!!!!
Like3Reply · More · 33 minutes ago

Tanisha O'Neal Tompkins
You ppl don't even know us! You think u do, but u don't! This post is just cruel to even read! U act like u know he's not with us anymore!! U don't know that and we don't believe that! Ur sending the wrong message!!! How can u ppl who have never even talked to any of us or personally asked us anything, say a damn word?? This is just wrong!!
Like2Reply · More · 26 minutes ago

Kellen Marson
Typing in excessive caps is a compensation for the opposite...just saying. Apparently no one has bothered to look up the abduction statistics. It would put the probability of him being abducted at 3 percent. However being a remote area it's almost non existent for this to even be a probability. Further, the 411 theory may be plausible except the percentage of kids that visit national parks vs those that go missing would be around .003 percent. Possible yes, likely nope. An abduction would be nearly impossible. Statically, 84 percent of missing children are abducted by a family with 60 percent of those being killed by the family. The problem is...the probability of any story created thus occurring would be so low, you probably have a better chance of winning the lottery. Which might fix part of the problem.
Edited · LikeReply · More · 9 minutes ago

Amber Andra
How do you have any right to say this baby is not here anymore thats bullshit. Since you seem to "know" so much about his where abouts maybe you should be questioned you have zero right to say this about this baby!
Like2Reply · More · 15 minutes ago

Write a comment...

Anonymous said...

The Idaho Repository shows a default debt judgment entered against Jessica on 8/27/2015 for $11,958. Case # CV-2015-0003606-OC.

Anonymous said...

The more I read, the more I think that Baby Deorr was handed off to someone as collateral for a [drug?] debt. (I felt the same way when the news about Haleigh Cummings broke.). Maybe the PI's $10,000 "reward" is "just" the repayment of that debt?

LisaB said...

This may be way off, but maybe they did not usually CALL him "DeOrr". Maybe they called him "Lil Man" more often. My daughter had a nickname that she was called by everyone until she started school, where they made her go by her "real" name. At his age, she probably would not have answered to (or recognized) her real name.

Sus said...

Thanks anon.
Thanks Juliet, once again for transcribing.
I'm conflicted about the latest interview.

Both Deorr and Jessica have lost a considerable amount of weight. To me Jessica's posture and facial grimaces show anger, major anger. She looks like she's about ready to crack under the stress. And the way Deorr and her mother grip her hands, the way her mother strokes her hand, even the way her father looks at her...they all know it.

I found it interesting that her father, Jerry Mitchell, was there. I thought his prison time was longer. Anyway, they're certainly not hiding their background by putting him front and center.

Is it natural by this point in time for Deorr Sr to use "you" to describe their emotional turmoil? I would think so. He does change to the personal "I" to tell his own hope of closure "one way or another." I take note this is one place Jessica grimaces. This could be a bone of contention between them. Deorr Sr is more willing to accept finding a body, whereas Jessica insists Little Deorr is abducted and alive.

I sure wish we would here from Ggp and IR. I still believe they are the key to this.

Anonymous said...

Jerry Jay Mitchell was released on probation 8/18/2015. Idaho Repository case # CR-2013-0010692-FE.

LisaB said...

This may be way off, but maybe they did not usually CALL him "DeOrr". Maybe they called him "Lil Man" more often. My daughter had a nickname that she was called by everyone until she started school, where they made her go by her "real" name. At his age, she probably would not have answered to (or recognized) her real name.

lynda said...

Juliet....Brennon Birch has several FB pages, at least 2 are old. The current one makes no mention of the kids going to spend the night with their mom. If you read his FB page, they RARELY see her at all. I did notice that Daddy Deorr made a comment that Jessica and his daughter "Looks beautiful" with her hair curled a few days ago.

I'm not buying all this "cracking" and anguish stuff either. Mom has NO other children in her possession, she is not working, she spends an enormous amount of time on SM along with Deorr Sr. Sister Tanisha, and that was one of the first things I noticed...how well groomed she is, right down to a fresh mani. and NO TEARS...sniffing for the camera...but NO TEARS.

lynda said...

Daddy Deorr just commented on the Justice for deorr jr FB page regarding the gofundme accounts. WHY don't they stay off SM???? Why aren't they doing something productive?? Why are they so concerned with themselves?? I would not give a shit what anyone was saying about me if my kid was missing. NOT ONE SHIT, nor would I respond to them.

DeOrr Kunz There are 2 go fund me accounts people started either has been touched and it goes to lemhi search and rescue and Red Cross get your facts right before you open and run your God damn mouth And if you would like info all you have to do is ask other wise you will be proved wrong but I'm noticing most of those doing so are used to jumping to conclusion and and everyone bowing to you but none of my business. How screwed up and pathetic is your life you spend your whole day watching others and keeping tabs on everyone else start drama you spend all this time eating my family I'm guessing not working must be a welfare baby but none of my business and fyi the go fund me accounts don't equal to what I make a month at my job so if that was part of it your idea your full of shit which most of you are
Like · Reply · 11 · 3 hrs · Edited

Juliet said...

LisaB - yes, of course they may well call him Lil Man for most of the time, I jwould expect them to clarify, in the hope it might help someone identify him, in the unlikely event of his having been abducted, and then also being taken outside.

Sus - I think the parents are besides themselves with grief, and whether they know what happened to DeOrr, or not, it would not lessen their trauma at such an early stage. Even if he is alive, it's like a bereavement if they have no certain knowledge of that. I would think Jessica did not want to be interviewed but felt compelled to be there, and that's reflected in her body language - though without the rest of the interview, we can't know if actually she did speak, or if she continued to avoid looking at the interviewer or camera throughout. I so can't get my head round it - the first interview makes me think DeOrr, at least, was involved. Trina, I think knows Isaac better than she claims. Isaac seemed under duress not to say anything, but knows that grandpa has something interesting to say. Isaac's Facebook is weird and comes across to me as being somewhat mocking/taunting, though I might be misinterpreting that. Jessica - I wouldn't wager a bet on her knowing what happened to DeOrr, but then DeOrr Sr, for all his strange behaviour - I'm not sure he necessarily knows either. I wish it would all end, one way or another, just so long as the truth is established. I can't see there being any happy ending at this stage, unless, perhaps, DeOrr is being held over a debt, but by now, surely that would have been uncovered and he would have been found.

Lynda - it was on Brennon's current page last night, along with where they were going today - he's either deleted or changed the post's settings to make it only viewable by his friends. I saw it when checking out some of the family pages to see if any had posted anything about the new interview, or links to it - he probably had overlooked to make it a friends-only post and changed it when he realised it was public.

Juliet said...

Lynda - I don't know - personally, I don't think not crying in public has to mean Jessica is not grief-stricken. Some people don't or can't - plus, if she's medicated, that would make her less emotional in that way. If she's angry, she's experiencing anger - I don't see why she should cry for the cameras. Genuine anger is preferable to fake tears, which they would have to be, if she did not feel like crying at that time - I don't like the expectation that someone needs to 'prove' their devastation in a particular way in order to satisfy public opinion.

Also, I think DeOrr is quite entitled to say 'screw you' more or less, to those who are accusing them of trying to make money from the gofundme pages, if evidently they are not in personal receipt of those funds and didn't set up the pages themselves. It's a further affront to their already shattered dignity - I don't see why they should just sit back and take it and 'not give a shit'. As they do feel the need to defend themselves, why begrudge them finding the time to respond to their critics - it's not as if that prevents them from doing anything else. I did find it questionable that a page was set up for search funds while the initial search was in progress, as they didn't need funding for that, but I think it was the kid cousin who set that up - who knows if she even consulted them first? Everyone just wanted to help, it probably seemed something she could do.

It must be hell to be them, or to be part of that family going through all this, whatever it is - I hope for all their sakes it ends soon.

Angelica said...

Juliet,

Re: the use of "actually"

Mother said in 911 call "Um, I'm actually camping in Leadore, just outside of Leodore."

In the statement, yes, she is using "actually" as Buckley said to contrast that she is at a campground rather at a specific address. However, she withholds the exact name of the campground until a little bit later on in the 911 call. I think that the word actually here could indicate she is "actually" camping in Leadore as opposed to camping somewhere else.
My belief is I don't think baby DeOrr was ever at that specific campground.
There is a possibility from the language that maybe he was left at another campground.

Last night when I was looking at different youtube videos pertaining to the case, in the comment section under one of them (unfortunately I don't remember which one) a commenter wrote that the mother had written on her FB page that they had a $500,000 life insurance policy out on baby DeOrr and that the mother had erased that comment that she had allegedly posted. I do not know if this is true. I have not visited the page myself. I am just repeating what a commenter had written under a youtube video pertaining to the case.

Juliet said...

Angelica - that's interesting, as my first instinct was that whatever happened did not happen at that campsite, but another - I don't know why I thought that, but presumably it was the 'actually'' which gave me that impression, and which is maybe why I am still stuck on it.

Well, I hope it's not so about the life insurance - do you mean it was payable upon death? That would be a large amount to take out on a baby. In the UK the law is different, and people are not permitted to insure against the death of a child - I don't know why that isn't the same the world over, as it would be the best life insurance policy there could be for some poor children. It has to be discounted as rumour, though, if no evidence of such a post exists. Why would anyone make such knowledge public if they had the intention of harming the child insured? It seems improbable, to me, but I'm pretty good at underestimating the madness of this world. Still, not taking that on board without any evidence.

Juliet said...

I suppose a crafty person with evil intent might think that making such knowledge public would prevent suspicion falling on them if anything happened to the child - people would just say, well, she was very upfront, and she would be mad to have been so open about there being insurance if she had intended to cash in the policy? No, not going there - it is crazy, it has to be a malicious rumour. Why would anyone even think to put their insurance details out on Facebook - it's as crazy as publishing a bank statement would be. Hmm - screenshot, anyone?

Juliet said...

If it's true, it will come out soon enough. I hope it is not true.

Oakley A said...

Just an observation. I have 3 sons if one was missing it would be the very last thing I would care about and I am quite certain my other two boys would not care if my nails were painted.

Angelica said...

Juliet,

I've seen in now on 2 videos--the 2nd comment said that she shut her fb page down after the life insurance policy was mentioned.
I think that these 2 are quite crafty. I think the mother is a sophisticated liar who "keeps quiet" as much as possible--we have seen it in the 911 call where she needs constant prompting to supply information.
I believe the part of the parent interview that needs to be looked at carefully is the section where the mother starts speaking up while the father is speaking, she begins talking while he continues talking. This is the part of the interview, in my opinion, that was most important to her to help "shape" the response.

A disturbing thing for me on the 911 call is when she is asked "where you near water"?
She calmly responds "Yes." Now, if I ask myself what would I say when asked that question if I had a 2 year old son who had been missing for an hour, I would go hysterical.
The mentioning of the life insurance policy: I do not know if she asked if there was any life insurance policy, I do not know the context for which she allegedly posted the information, but it fits in with what is emerging which is calm, cool, calculated responses.

EVidently, baby DeOrr's great-grandfather is mentally and physically disabled and the "friend" who was with him (I watched an interview with him) also seems mentally challenged, so if the parents disappeared baby DeOrr and then set up this scenario, they picked 2 people who you would look at and think "wow these 2 seem very incapable of caring for a child, maybe he did wander off".

I want to find the part in the video where both are speaking because I think it is important. Will post.

Oakley, yes I agreee, it is quite odd to have a fresh manicure under these circumstances.

Juliet said...

Jessica has a little girl, though, Oakley - it might matter to her, as little girls do tend to enjoy 'girly' stuff. Besides, how long does it take to paint nails, and get a hair colour? It doesn't have to take long - even if it does, I don't think Jessica needs to justify her grooming routine to anyone. I don't see a problem in her maintaining her appearance. If she didn't, she would likely be criticised for not being in a fit and engaged enough state to be able to care for her other children, when she does. I found similar criticism of Kate McCann to be a bit unreasonable, too - everyone is entitled to their dignity, and if that involves taking care of their appearance in order to be able to face the world, so be it.

Anonymous said...

If Jessica can function well enough to go out and get her nails and hair color done then she damn well should be functional enough to speak into the camera about her own missing son! Come on now, something is not right here!!!

Juliet said...

Angelica - the great grandfather is not incapable - he apparently drove the long trip to the campsite, which would be unlikely for someone of declining mental abilities. He also has taken a polygraph, which I doubt they would attempt with someone who has poor recall. I believe the family wanted to give the impression that the grandfather was not quite all there, because the grandfather has information they want discounted as the ramblings of an elderly confused man. He uses a portable oxygen device, and his age would have to slow him down, but I don't think he is mentally challenged. Isaac is brighter than he wanted to appear in his interview, too - he may not have any college, but he is from an educated family, which cannot but have rubbed off on him - I doubt there are too many flies on Isaac. But yes, possibly give great grandpa and Isaac a few drinks, both being alcoholics, and they're anyone's - who knows? I think Isaac likes his whacky baccy, too.

Juliet said...

Anon at 8.00pm - they aired a couple of minutes of a forty-five minute interview - Jessica may have spoken for the other forty minutes, for all anyone knows. Probably not, though - what they showed should be at least somewhat representative of how it allpanned out. Good Lord, though - what is the problem with anyone NOT wanting to look like a wreck for a TV interview?

Angelica said...

Hi Juliet,

I didn't realize the great grandfather had driven up there--that does give a certain baseline on his physical/mental status. The "friend" seemed odd and something seemed quite off about him, however it is quite difficult to tell from such a short interview.

If you or anyone is interested, I notice a few odd things in the unedited parent interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358

1) At 11:52, when father is being asked if something may have been missed at the campground by searches, the father makes a mistake twice trying to say the name of the search and rescue department first calling it "Snake River..." then trying again to say the name and again saying "Snake". Could this be a Freudian Slip of some kind? Is he thinking of a river? Is he thinking of a river that "snakes"?

2) At 12:37 the mother begins speaking the most she has in the video: important to watch I think

At 13:03 and again at 13:08 the mother makes a very odd expression while father takes over speaking briefly. It appears almost as if she may be smiling, but pulling in her lips and flattening them against each other to hide the smile???? I am not a body language expert but please look at this. Also when she is doing this you can see the dimple lines in her cheeks form that would be there if smiling. Is this a form of duper's delight? It appears to me she is trying to disguise a smile and if so, then it would be duper's delight.
Thoughts???

Juliet said...

She still looked like a wreck, anyway - but somehow an unkempt looking wreck would have been more appropriate... I don't know. I think it's making too much out of the ordinary. Even when life is crap, it goes on. If she feels better for getting a manicure and hair colour, well, that's not totally outrageous, I don't think.

Oakley A said...

Yea Juliet I guess everyone is different. There's no accounting for different behavior I mean Casey Anthony went and got that "beautiful life" tatoo when her daughter was supposedly missing while knowing she was in a trash bag. It isn't a criticism I am just trying to reconcile in my mind that she seemed so despondent she could't look up and yet she kept up with that detail. Sus may be on the something with it being anger. There is no human emotion for grief.
Speaking of the Anthony's...I am getting a vibe from this family there's an underbelly and something going on that they are always alluding to. Yet no one really knows what it is. Not to infer deception there is just a similar dynamic going on with Trish to me.

Oakley A said...

That was my quandary. It took effort and yet she exerted none on this opportunity to further the quest to.find her son. Why not?

Oakley A said...

Or Trina rather

Juliet said...

I might be wrong in saying the family, or parents at least, wanted anything great-grandpa said discounted. It was the Sherrif or one of his deputies who said the great-grandpa was mentally and physically frail. Trina said that her father had been in shock, and in a great deal of emotional distress since the baby disappeared. It may be that due to great-grandpa's shock and distress, he was taken to be somewhat incapable by the Sheriff, and so ruled out of the investigation initially - subsequently he has been described as co-operative, and has taken a polygraph, so the initial impression can no longer apply - fairly, though, it may not have been an impression the parents sought to give, but one created by great grandpa himself.

--
Angelica - thanks. I will watch the first interview again, with some trepidation, as it will likely convince me of the parents' having guilty knowledge all over again, when I would rather not think that. Statistically, though, and logically, that should make sense.

Juliet said...

Yes, Oakley - Trina. I don't know what it is either, but maybe if people zoned in on Trina something more would become apparent.

Angelica said...

My major concern is if at 13:03 and 13:08 if the mother's expression is duping delight. Is she trying to disguise a smile? I made the expression myself and the only way my cheeks would look like that is if I was smiling.

Strangely, guilty people will often break into a smile at the most incriminating times in an interview.
An excellent example of this can be seen in the Scott Peterson (he killed Lacy Peterson) interview with Diane Sawyer. Scott Peterson just breaks into a giant smile when asked if he murdered Lacy. Frightening.
The mother in the DeOrr video looks as if she may be trying to hide a smile. But I am not sure.

Juliet said...

Hmm - Angelica, I don't know body-language, but the lip sucking is similar to that caused as a side-effect from medication - it may not be, of course, though it looks the same. For the first time (as I hate my new computer and Windows 10, or rather the process of having to familiarise myself with it, so have hardly bothered) I have viewed the interview on a decent sized monitor rather than a small iPad screen, and am more than a tad disconcerted at what I am now able to see. If you stop at the point Jessica is asked about the blanket, you will see how she shoots a knowing smile in the direction of family members who are there, but out of view. This at the blanket, which her baby needs and always has with him. This genuine replica blanket..., I felt even on the iPad screen, that DeOr was showing either duper's delight or inappropriate excitement over the SAR adventure at various points - but this smile of Jessica's over the blanket has completely done my head in. If this YouTube was posted frame by frame it would make a most interesting gallery. I am going off-line for a bit - it's all too much, especially the not having looked at it weeks ago on a proper screen, when I could have done so.

The Snake River, I also wondered if that was a slip - it's not that far from the campsite.

Juliet said...

The blanket smile is at 13.20 over a couple of frames on the video.

Anonymous said...

Hey Isaac. Really? Is that the best you can do? Try again buddy. YOU FAIL

Anonymous said...

What? Isaac is posting here? Which post(s)?

Anonymous said...

No he's just watching.

Anonymous said...

I would love to know what Isaac thinks happened to little DeOrr...

Anonymous said...

He's not talking. He let's others do that for him.

lynda said...

Juliet...I wasn't criticizing mom for Not crying...I was picking up on the fact that she was FAKE crying. She was snorting and sniffing as if she was crying/nose running so you have to sniff but she had no tears. Another thing, when they had the pic of both of them with the orange tshirts on she was looking down and away also. Regardless, her grooming is telltale to me along with the fact that they have to "defend" themselves on SM. I still call bullshit on that. Stay off SM, you're not going to find your son that way, and if people you don't even know think one way...WHO CARES?? You think Mark Klaas was pounding away on his keyboard defending himself when Polly went missing when he was being torn to shreds in the beginning?? NO. He didn't give a shit and that man RAN to the police station to be poly'd so they would find his girl. Sometimes, I don't think people get it...NOTHING is the same, NOTHING is right, NOTHING goes "on"...you go thru the motions of life unless you take your life because you can't stand the pain of your missing child. YEARS after Shawn Hornbeck went missing, his mother was ruined and you could see it EVERY time. The vulgar language and trash talk they use on SM is indicative of what their character is in my book. Has anyone looked at Deorr Sr FB? It's disgusting. Trina is on social media alot and her language in this interview suggests to me that she is not close to Deorr and does not consider them a couple. She isolates and separates Deorr Sr. from "them". Deorr needs him home, so he can raise his son." That is one of the strangest sentences. Why don't "THEY" need him home, so THEY can raise THEIR son...but she treats them both as separate entities, not as a parental/couple unit. Nobody makes a bigger impression, induces more sympathy than the MOM of a missing child and she has been basically silent and looking down..except when she is cussing someone out on FB. There is so much wrong here it's hard to keep everything straight. They never met Isaac before, so hey, lets take him camping with our 2 year old...and hey, isn't it a coincidence he's a rapist? Good Lord.

Anonymous said...

If Peter, or one of the regulars here, could say something about Freudian slips in Statement Analysis I would appreciate it. Yes, I am talking about "Snake River......Salmon Snake and River" from the 15 minute interview, where DK is clearly trying to say Salmon Search and Rescue. Angelic and Juliet, this is one part of the interview that bothers me a great deal. Why is he thinking of Snake River when he is talking about Search and Rescue? What do statement analysts think about Freudian slips?

Anonymous said...

Latest on Fight for Justice for Baby Deorr page is that a picture of Jessica Mitchell and her relative are throwing up gang signs lol.
Except it is the picture of either Witchita State or "The Shocker" lol.
It's also from 4 years ago not 4 days before the interview.
I am wondering how people can accuse others of murder without concrete evidence.
Scary people out there.

It's hard to take anyone seriously that tells people about concrete evidence when it's really a background of "Step Brothers" playing.

BSG lost all credibility with me the minute he asked people to fabricate evidence for Rebecca Fox for LE.

The TRUTH is.....Peter has not found evidence of guilt on the parents behalf so far.
If he has, be hasn't said anything yet.

Angelica said...

Hi Juliet,

I noticed the smile at the blanket. Thank you for pointing it out. It's very odd, and it is unnerving to say the least. One would think that at that point where she is gazing at the replica blanket the original which is with her missing baby DeOrr would cause quite a bit of sadness and painful emotion rather than a smile. Also, yes, it would be a replica blanket right? As she states that the blanket, the cup and the monkey were left at the "campsite" with baby DeOrr?!?! It seemed to me like she was "inserting" the emotion she thought would fit in at that point rather than showing genuine emotion, like 'oh it is his blanket that is a happy thing right?'

With "Snake River", wow, I did not know it was an actual name of a location! And close to the campsite you say...I think the slip is important.

Angelica said...

Anon @ 11:29,

Freudian slips are considered important--both by Freud and by statement analysis. My personal opinion about Freudian slips is that oftentimes when the person vocalizes a "slip" they are thinking of whatever it is that ends up coming out of their mouth. So, with Dad DeOrr saying "Snake River" and then trying again and saying "Snake"---the repetition gives it extra importance.

His Freudian slip occurs at the point of the interview when he is being asked about the possibility of any sign of DeOrr being missed at the campsite. Quite frankly, was he thinking of "Snake River"? Yes he was. Does this mean Baby DeOrr could be there? Possibly. Could it be another river? Possibly. I believe he was thinking of a river that is for sure.

Angelica said...

I may not have articulated it well, but suffice to say he was thinking of Snake River. What that means is hard to tell exactly, but certainly worth considering.
Perhaps it means he thinks that water should be more thoroughly searched, although he was saying the opposite that he felt the search had been very thorough. Still, maybe the Freudian slip means he is concerned that water was not searched enough,
Could it mean that a river or Snake River contains some kind of evidence? Possibly.
It's hard to know.

Anonymous said...

Angelica,

I think the Snake River slip may be related to why they chose to go camping in Leadore.

Idaho Falls is one of the most popular camping destinations in the state. According to Trails.com, it is one of the only areas with campgrounds along the Snake River:

"The Snake River emerges into the Snake River plain at Ririe, and at that point several vacationer businesses have been established. There are not many others along the Snake, as the river winds through Idaho; in many places, the Snake is in a deep, inaccessible canyon or else is being drawn upon heavily for irrigation water."

They live in Idaho Falls. Idaho Falls has great camping, on the Snake River.

Instead they drove two and a half hours to Leadore, choosing a remote campground with few sites and few guests and arriving at 9:30 at night.

I think why they chose to go camping in Leadore is a sensitive topic for DeOrr Sr.

"I thought it would be perfect to go camping there because it’s enclosed by walls of mountains"

According to Trina, great-grandpa chose the campsite and had been there before, but not for 27 years. DeOrr Sr. had never been.

I was surprised to hear this. I felt that DeOrr implied that he chose the campsite, and he chose it because he thought the walls of mountains would make it safe.

K.M.

Juliet said...

Angelica - the blanket smile - I don't know if it was a case of Jessica inserting emotion at a point she thought she should, so much as a smile she was unable to suppress, a bit like DeOrr letting 'Snake River' slip out. I wonder if the person she smiled toward was one who also knew the blanket wasn't DeOrr's favourite, a 'secret we share' sort of smile of which she was unaware, or hardly aware. I would not expect her to smile, or for her to think she should be smiling at happy associations with the blanket and DeOrr - I would expect her to become distressed when asked about the blanket, as it is, she says, his comfort item, which he needs but from which he has been separated - I'd think she might be on the verge of tears, at least, at that point, but then, maybe not, as they were probably on an adrenalin high in those early days, and perhaps none of it seemed quite real to them while the initial search was in progress. I wonder if John or Jessica might have any observations to make round the body language of smiles, or this smile. I find it is too easy to project onto them what I imagine should be their behaviour and responses, when the fact is that we are not all the same, and without having been in their shoes it is probably, quite often, too presumptuous a way to look at things.

Of the reservoir and creek, DeOrr said his son was 'not in THAT water' - so one would think towards Snake River, as that's the other water which was on his mind. And if there's a 'that' there's also likely to be a 'this'? If little DeOrr was in the Snake River, there would be little prospect of his being recovered, I doubt a search would be considered viable, practical or achievable. Snake River Printers would print anyone a DeOrr t-shirt, though, I think for ten or fifteen dollars - well, that would be just so very helpful. :-/







Juliet said...

Lynda - sorry, I wasn't paying enough attention and will watch the new interview again when I'm not on my iPad, as the small screen is not the best, and I didn't notice the fake crying.

2015 is very different to 1993 when there was no Facebook or Twitter, and many people were not Internet-savvy or even on-line. So that the family is out there does not seem unexpected, to me, and it seems they are damned if they do, and if they don't. I think the more they post, the better - and best not to interrupt them, or heap too much judgement, as you never know what any of them might say next, plus their pages give some glimpses into ther lives and characters. The sad fact is, they are no more likely to find DeOrr offline than they are on-line, but on-line they find friends and support, Trina is trying to find people and resources for a new search, friends are organising fund-raising for search dogs. They have detractors, to some of whom they respond, and why should they not feel angry at BSG, who, on the 'evidence' of his magic tape recorder has declared them guilty of the cold blooded murder of their baby, in order to cash in an insurance policy? It can't be nothing to be so accused. Class and intellect are what they are - it's quite a mix in the extended family, but undoubtedly some of them lack restraint and sometimes respond aggressively - they are how they are - I'm not sure how being disgusted by their difference figures.

I wondered about Trina's DeOrr raising his son comment, too - maybe there had been issues before the baby disappeared, or there's some reason why, if he is still alive and ever recovered, DeOrr rather than Jessica would need to be doing the raising. Too much to speculate, though - and it's so unlikely the baby is alive. There are hardly any photos of Little DeOrr on Trina's page, and the most recent was a year old, while there are hundreds of his siblings, so one might conject that Trina was not close or visiting/visited by her baby grandson -therefore her relationship with Jessica was not good.

Buckley said...

Didn't he seem to lean towards accidental death and cover up in the post "Deorr Kunz: Accidental Death?"

Juliet said...

Lynda - life does go on, though, one way or another - it just has to, unless, as you say, you decide to kill yourself, and having other children is likely to figure highly in that consideration. everything keeps going on, relentlessly. Life doesn't stand still even if it seems to, as you say, one still goes through the motions, and whatever they are, they are likely to remain pretty much the same. (If that involves the salon, it does, for Jesssica that might be part of trying to keep herself sane, though I doubt she'd be interested in chatting to the stylist about her vacations, if they like to ask those questions there as much as they do here.) Eventually, and to a greater or lesser degree one steps back into life, if one can. I don't want to rush to judgement - do we even know, say, that Jessica's mom and sister didn't virtually drag her to the salon, so she wouldn't look like a total wreck on TV? No, we don't know that. Do we know that Jessica is not considering killing herself every single day? No, we don't know that. We do know a little child is missing, that Jessica has lost her child, but not how; we know that the story is not stacking up too well and the truth has yet to be uncovered - that's about all we know.

Juliet said...

Yes, Buckley, he did.

I'm still thinking he might have fallen in the fire, possibly at another camp-site - but I shouldn't think that.

Jessica Blans said...

Whew, I'm catching up with comments on this page.

First, in regard to the hair and nails, I have a question for you to consider - When you look at the video of the two-month anniversary interview, do you look at Jessica Mitchell and see a woman who is in enviable shape? In other words,do you think, " wow, she's gorgeous?" I do not. Other photos of Jessica I've thought she was beautiful.In this interview, though, she is wrecked. If you agree that she looks rough in this video, than the discussion about vanity is completely wrong. She has the potential to look great, yet she looks awful now. Jessica's hair looks like a home-job, not from a salon. It's too dark and has none of the tonal qualities of a professional procedure. This is not the dye job of a vain woman, it is the dye job of someone who is not paying attention, someone who is going through the motions. The only clear shot of Jessica's hands is when the bracelets are shown, and it looks like an old manicure, with polish toward the top of the nail, but the bottom of nail doesn't have polish - either chipped off or her nail has grown out. This is not the image of a woman who is spending so much time on her personal appearance that she is dishonoring her missing son.

Second, there was discussion of a duping delight smiles from Jessica in the first uncut video at the beginning of the 13 minute mark. I've gone through them frame by frame. These are not smiles. I recommend googling "facial muscles for smiles", and you should see fairly detailed diagrams of the muscles involved in true smiles. The motion she makes during this time is an Inward Lip Roll (ILR). There are a number of possible reasons for an ILR, including to suppress a smile. With an ILR to suppress a smile, however, there will other facial cues involving eyes (especially a raising/tightening) of the lower eyelid. The more common reason for an ILR is increased anxiety. It is a MAP (manipulated/adaptor/pacifier) and we use it to help ourselves in some way. The theory is that people calm themselves down by self-touch (such as playing with hair, scratching nose, putting hands on your own shoulders as if hugging self) and an ILR is a version of this with one lip touch the other lip in order to help calm down. ILR are also associated with anger suppression.

I wish people wouldn't be judgmental on things they don't have any (or extremely limited) training on. I understand practicing statement analysis and I understand practicing the interpretation of nonverbal communication. I understand discussion where we raise points and talk about the merits of a point. I don't understand analyzing people/things/events based little-to-no knowledge and making judgemental pronouncements because of it. I don't understand the meanness of it.

I appreciate the rational and reasonable conversations on this page. I enjoy being challenged intellectually. After I posted an earlier nonverbal critique, Juliet brought up the point that medication can cause some of the behaviors I discussed. She's right. It is something that should be considered in any nonverbal critique of Jessica Mitchell. I missed it, but Juliet caught it. That's a good thing.

I do not know what happened to Baby DeOrr, but based on discussion and analysis I have some ideas. More importantly, though, this blog has helped reawaken my love of learning. Once you graduate from college, it's easy to leave behind the joy of inquiry and investigation. I want to read posts and comments so that I can learn, and I think most of the regular commenters respond similarly.

So, let's get back to evidence-based comments, or questions, or well-reasoned discussions, ok? I am hopeful that I have not angered Peter or regular commenters, but am preparing myself for some of you to be very annoyed with me.

Jesica Blans

Oakley A said...

Her personal appearance and considering how she looks good or bad is irrelevant. As is the quality of her grooming. Her state of mind is what I considered debatable since she seemed extremely despondent during the interview in the provided footage and didn't make any statement.

Anonymous said...

*Standing and applauding, Jessica Blans. Standing and applauding.*

Cat's Meow said...

Claim 1. Subject has to name drop important people. It feels more like he is trying to persuade than describing something that actually happened. The only time he used “I” in the first statement was at the end. He also uses the verb “can” which is a tricky verb for me, because anyone “can” tell you anything. But it doesn’t mean that he knows where Bin Laden is located. It just means he can tell them a location that may or may not be true. Also he doesn’t reference Bin Laden or Al Queda in that sentence. Instead he uses the word “they.” Which could mean anyone. The second statement is the same thing roughly. A lack of “I” statements. Phrasing things passively. Asking questions in a challenging manner. It really seems like this person is lying about knowing where Al Queda and Bin Laden are.

Claim 2. Why is changing the noun from “I” to “We”? He is unsure if what he heard was actually gunshots. He is reluctant to state it outright by including the words “literally, probably.” Also the phrasing of “happened to be” and then also “it turned out” raises red flags for me. Also I don’t like the phrase “We didn’t know” because it isn’t a complete thought. Also why is he okay with saying that “I heard gunshots” and then quickly changing to “we.” I would say he feels bad about not doing anything after he heard the noise.

Claim 3. LIAR. Using the words “completely honest.” Needing to persuade that he is telling the truth. I also do not understand the scenario/context of this statement. I feel like he is speaking about himself in the third sentence in a distancing way. Almost like the rules he is stating do not apply to him but everyone else if I am understanding the context clearly.

Claim 4. Well he starts off saying he is better than the other person, as if it matters, as if it means the other person should give him respect or authority right from the start of the paragraph. Red flags for me. Also knows he doesn’t have a higher IQ, because he uses “I think” and “I suspect.” Less commitment. Drops “I” pronoun when saying “the only one in my class” - probably lying about that. I don’t like that he says “first year in the law” being in the “law” doesn’t mean anything. Being in “law school” means something. Why did he go from calling it “law school” to “law” to “law school”? Why is he so specific about which departments he was in but not specific about the degrees he received? Why does he need to be so specific about the credits he earned? Feels like he is trying to persuade. He spends the majority of the lines in the statement describing scholarships, awards, etc. But so little time on the degrees he got. I don’t think he has 3 degrees.

Cat's Meow said...

Claim 5. “For if it were” sets off alarm bells in my head. He is definitely lying. The “if” statements. The embedded confession of “I had intended to cheat.” Stating “facts” again. He did that in the previous statement, saying “in fact.” Valuing your word is not that same as “I didn’t plagiarize.” This is not a reliable denial. He is putting so much emphasis on intentions, misleading, malevolent… oh my. I am writing as I am reading this. When he says “And I didn’t. To this day, I didn’t”. Red flags! Qualifying the “I didn’t” with “to this day.” Also the “I didn’t” is just hanging there. It isn’t attached to any action. I would believe him if he said “I didn’t plagiarize.” But he doesn’t say that. He doesn’t deny the charge reliably. Also his “but” in the beginning cancels out his statement that he thinks he was “wrong.” Which makes me think he didn’t think it was a bad thing to do. I think a question in my mind is if he didn’t intend to mislead, what did he intend to do? He is comparing it to something. Like he intended to cheat and he intended to not get caught.

Claim 6. Statement A. Fine I believe that. Statement B. I believe this. Statement C. I don’t believe this because he used the phrase “couldn’t wait.” It’s a negative way of saying something positive. And saying “could almost” makes me think he knew he was going to leave the team. Also it is a weird tense. Sounds like he is trying to persuade about his relationship. Why the need to explain falling in love twice in different ways? Statement D. So I think he needed to describe falling in love so much because he knew he was going to leave the team. INTERESTING that he refers to the coaches as “my coaches” in earlier statements, but then changes to “the coach” later. Distancing, no longer sees himself as part of the team.

Claim 7. HAHA. "Let me tell you a little story”!! You have got to be kidding me. LIAR.

Daisy said...

I agree. Especially if you only have 'one bar' for cell service and the call could get dropped at any time. Get critical info out ASAP. She has no sense of urgency at all. Those guys are so full of BS.