This case is haunting me. I sincerely hope they find little Deorr soon, there are really so few facts and so many unanswered questions as of yet.
Facts that have been confirmed by LE as reported by news report or LE interviews:
1. 99% sure DJ was at the campsite. 2. Cadaver dogs were brought in, alerted at reservoir and kept returning to campsite. Search dogs led authorities to Stone Reservoir, human remains were scattered near the Timbercreek Reservoir on July 2, 2015 (8 days before DJ was reported missing) 3. Conflicting reports about when the family arrived at the Timber Creek Campground in Leadore-the group actually arrived late on Thursday July 9th. 4. LE does not believe the child was abducted. 5. “I don’t believe the store has a surveillance (system), but we have a receipt that shows they purchased certain items,” Bowerman said. “The time was stamped on the receipt, so we believe that’s where they went.” 6. I feel real good about the parents and the grandfather. Reinwand has also been questioned, I’m not getting any feeling that he’s not being truthful. 7. Everyone at the campsite has had their vehicles and homes searched several times. 8. We’ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we’ve given them some physical evidence.
Human remains dumped near reservoir might have confused search dogs. Maybe, but maybe not. Ashes, bones, and soft tissue remains all have different smells. Some dogs are trained to identify all 3, some are not. They may not have been on the wrong trail at all. I'm also unclear as to whether canines were brought in the first day or not until the 3rd day. Search dogs on day 1 and cadaver dogs on day 3? Does anyone having clarifying details? This may not be important to some people, but I'd be very interested to read the actual report of what kinds of dogs, when and where/what their behaviors were.
Initial deception by parents about the day/time the family arrived. Why?
Parents admit father was at the store with the child earlier in the day on Friday, but not at 6pm. A receipt was provided with a timestamp-does not mean someone else didn't go purchase items on Friday and no information on how the items were paid for. I can't find any information about the store clerk other than in the parents own statement in their first interview. Does anyone have a link where a reporter or LE confirm this clerk sighting?
Sheriff "feels good about the parents and grandfather", "believes IR is being truthful" but has also qualified all 4 as persons of interest in other statements.
Provided FBI with behavioral analysis and "some" physical evidence. No idea what type of evidence Sheriff Bowerman is referencing.
Statement analysis shows plenty of deception by DS, but poor interviewing does not qualify any of it so we really don't know whether he is feeling guilty about leaving his son alone, camping near all that water, or has guilty knowledge of where his son is and what happened. It's entirely possible this family just wasn't watching the kid close enough and he wandered off and has yet to be located. It's also entirely possible one of those 4 adults did something or covered up an accidental death. Finally, it is slightly possible something happened to the child before they even arrived and his body is not anywhere near the Timbercreek campground.
Contrary to my statements posted above as to what happened to little Deorr, I now believe he was abducted, or wondered off without the knowledge of his family. I believe there is no conspiracy or premeditated actions. I believe little Deorr was at the campsite, and either met with an abduction or an unfortunate accident/death.
I'maGrandma @ 1:44; are you actually referring to ME as all those names? You couldn't be further from the truth. I particularly resent you calling me "Karma". I don't even believe in Karma since it is NOT in the Bible. SOME nerve you have.
SOOo, here's another old cow who just wants to bicker and argue. You surprise me with your evil intent. I thought better of you. And to think, I sat here wishing you well for your sick father, yourself and your family. I even said a prayer for him and you. In spite of yourself, I still do wish you ALL well. ABB
Good question, Anon @4:33. I don't have the answer. I really don't.
I'm thinking that it might be best for me to just back off and drop out for a while. I've already had enough to deal with without constantly having to defend myself against one slam and then another. Besides that, I'm not well anyway, certainly not well enough to have to defend myself all the time. I just hate bickering, it zaps all my strength and leaves me short of breath.
Neither is the anger worth it. For now, the stress is just too much for me.
Guess it's best for me to bid ado for a while. I wish you all the best. I'll probably drop by again one of these days. Meanwhile, those who hate me for no reason can just have it. It's just more than I can take. Sincerely, AB
I kind of doubt that the part of the shoe would be suspected by anyone, including Jessica, as belonging to the abductor. Seriously, I have never heard of an abductor losing a shoe. What you almost always hear are things left behind by the one who has been abducted.
To me, it was presented strangely as a potential clue: it could not have belonged to baby DeOrr and the odds of the abductor losing his own shoe would be negligible.
I believe it is an example of the "confusion clues" they throw out because they simply could not be clues that help solve any aspect of the case..
Analysis of the parent interview shows much deception as well as bizarre focus on things that do not involve the plight of their child.
Off the top of my head I will list a few, and I will further say that some of these elements are typical of sociopaths:
1) Lengthy focus and flattery towards law enforcement, searchers, search equipment, etc. (potential sign of sociopath--excessive flattery)
2) Diversion techniques to avoid addressing issue of the EMT bag
3) Presentation of unsubstantiated and likely fabricated "leads" like the store sighting (sociopath)
4) Focus on irrelevant findings (such as "possible" piece of broken shoe which could not have belonged to baby DeOrr)
5) A bizarre "understanding" of how the layout of the land, sounds from the gurgling creek etc could have provided the perfect setting for an abductor if one ignores just how unlikely an actual abduction was
I think what we have is a case of premeditated murder involving possible psychological torment: Dad DeOrr in my opinion is hiding behind a mask of flattery while cleverly offering up a false sighting, irrelevant "clues", as well as a Grandmother who also offers up a useless clue of an allegedly disposed of diaper belonging to DeOrr.
These people are attempting to divert attention, essentially saying "look here, not there". We as statement analysts need to see where it is LE should be looking, what are Mom and Dad DeOrr diverting away from? Where should LE be looking? What really happened? I think we need to figure out what are they trying to take our attention away from.
For example, I think the "insect reppellent/shoe clue along with statements such as "most toddlers leave a trail" tells us there is nothing to be found within the search area and this is known to the parents.
Next thing to look at would be the "store sighting": is this to try to make it appear that baby DeOrr was spotted as being alive after he was already dead. Most likely. What about the leakage in the statement then? "Gentleman, bawling, filthy, truck, lady who worked in the store, matched our description of our son..."
The buying of "feminine products" and calling grandma to tell her about this.
Hauling up the road for better reception, one bar on phone, Dad feels so "lucky an blessed" Mom got through to 911.
Mom having no emotional reaction when 911 operator asks her if they were near water, replying with a neutral "yes".
ABB stay. I enjoy your posts. If they don't want to read what you have to say, then oh well. Ignore them. Turn a blind eye. Juliet brought it on herself this past time. But if you do decided to go for awhile, I for one will be here when you return.
Ps. The campfire thing bothered me too. I had a close relative pass in that manner, not by a campfire, but while burning ground bees. It was horrible.
ABB, I know the photo was taken at least a year ago because a) I have eyes, and it's clear he's much younger in the photo, and b) it's a public photo from Trina's FB page and the date she posted it gives a frame of reference.
It bugs me to no end that they call him DeOrr Jr when he is NOT a junior. His name is not exactly the same as his father's, therefore he's not a junior. Makes them seem like such uneducated rednecks. But then again, their social media posts do that, also.
Ok, here is what Trina told me about the EMT bag. It was taken out of someone's vehicle on Saturday, July 11, 2015 during the searches. I am not sure if the window was broken out, or if the door was left unlocked.
If you think sunburn and loose fitting boots and dirt from playing is abuse, just let the state with its professional hiring tools rush into help. Here's an example of the caliber of people they are able to provide to service the needy: http://www.people.com/article/mother-charged-murder-allegedly-tossing-baby-window
momE September 25, 2015 at 11:25 AM said "I've been lied to, about, betrayed by close relatives for decades". Even sinners/slanderers/deceivers like your close relatives can choose to be honest, make amends and pay compensation. This often happens as people grow old and contemplate judgement day with their God ..... or other relatives may choose to make things right when the patriarch/matriarch loses power or dies.
Thank you anon for your kind words on 9/29 @ 8:21 p.m. I appreciate it more than you know. Just wanted you to know. Thought I'd stop in for a little while, have so much to do that I've been procrastinating on for too long.
I started thinking, maybe I mistook Grandma's post (above) to mean she was calling ME all those various posting fake names, which highly offended me since I've been falsely accused before; but maybe what she meant was that she was telling ALL of us too give it a rest. Whatevah! Who is SHE to tell US what to do?
In any case, she doesn't have to right to tell any of us to "give it a rest". Is she the boss uv this thread? This is not her blog site, it belongs to Peter; bought and paid for by Peter. Now, if HE were to tell us to give it a rest, that would be a whole other matter.
So now, little DeOrr has been missing since sometime in early July? More like nearly two months? Do you, or does anyone know, if the parents and others are still camped out at the campsite, supposedly searching for him? If so, I wonder why since daddy DeOrr made it so emphatically clear that he is not up there, that every stone and rock has been turned and looked under, every trickle, stream, brook and river has been searched, every bush looked behind, and there is not hide nor hair of him there? (Guess he oughta know, right?)
But there is no evidence that he ever WAS there! Trina finding a soiled diaper in a bag hanging from a tree limb waiting to be disposed of that she pitched, doesn't mean that little DeOrr was ever there. It could have been a dirty diaper removed from DeOrr's truck from previous use, or an old diaper left by previous campers, or one worn by a child of one of the volunteers who was there fixing food for the search volunteers. I don't believe for one second that the sheriff or his deputy would have allowed a diaper to be pitched that could have been used as possible evidence in their search, unless they are dumber than I think they are. Uh uh. NOT. ABB
Wait a minute. That would be more like THREE months the sweet little boy has been missing. Are they STILL hanging out at the campsite? Maybe traveling around the country putting out flyers? Baby daddy claims he was kidnapped; if not why not? ABB
In re some of the above posts that I wish to make a few remarks concerning, without going into much detail on any one post in particular, and with all due respect for the opinions of others:
1) It is MY opinion AND belief, that little DeOrr was terribly neglected. Neglect constitutes abuse whether it is a physical slamming of the child's head against the dashboard of an automobile cracking his skull and breaking his neck; or whether it was sun poisoning on the child's sensitive skin as is clearly shown in his photo, due to being left in the hot sun unprotected for HOURS, regardless as to his age, whether he was one, 1-1/2, 2 or 2-1/2;
His skin was horribly sun-burned. There is no excuse for this other than sheer neglect by his caretaker, mother or whoever. LOOK at his little face. THIS is neglect and constituted the same as abuse by DCF investigators. No, I am NOT a DCF investigator, but I HAVE been a probation officer and I DO know many of their determinations as to what constitutes abuse and is treated as such. Rightly so.
2) It IS neglect to put a pair of ill fitting shoes (in this case heavy too-large boots) on a toddler for him to have to struggle with keeping on his feet and still be able to walk in them. Could these whackos AFFORD shoes for their little boy? Yes ma'am, they could. They can afford the gasoline for a camping trip, they can afford shoes for their baby. Was he wearing thick sox to help buffer the damage that was being done to his feet? In the hot summer time?
How do I know these boots would have been hurting the little boy's feet? Because I said so. Why would I say so? I have had to WEAR ill fitting shoes when I was a child. My family was poor, there were seven children, we ALL had to wear each others hand-me-downs, it was very rare for any one child to get a new pair of shoes of our very own. I have worn shoes that were too tight that hurt my feet very badly, I have worn shoes that had to have the toes filled in with cotton or a sock just to keep them on my feet, I have worn shoes that rubbed against my heels until they were raw and bleeding, and cramped my toes until they had blisters and became numb. Don't tell ME that wearing ill fitting shoes is not neglect and does not hurt the child's feet, when I KNOW better, unless the parent has no other choice. They DID. Mine didn't.
3) Don't tell ME that allowing a child to play in the dirt without frequently cleaning him up and to go dirty is not abuse. Oh yes it is. It is neglect and neglect is abuse. When I was growing up we had very few toys to play with. We played in the dirt for HOURS with nothing more than a little block of wood to drive around in the dirt and make roads, etc., and rocks for people; while our mother did laundry, cleaned, worked in the garden, or prepared food and still checked on us.
Our favorite place to play was under the house where we would sit and play for half a day at the time, IN THE DIRT and out of the sun. My mother knew we were under there and were safe there. I even remember putting dirt in my mouth a few times, then she would wash my mouth out with soap. A lot of the time we were barefoot. The county nurse who visited occasionally told my mother to stop allowing this, that we could get pinworms from walking in the dirt barefoot and from sitting in it. We had to take the pinworm treatments several times. Country people were dumb back then. Today the way we lived would not be acceptable; it would be considered gross neglect and neglect IS abuse.
Little DeOrr WAS neglected and I'm just not going to keep defending this and I can't imagine anyone who would unless it is someone who has neglected their own child(ren) and are trying to justify themselves. ABB
Anon @ 12:48; your post was very enlightening. What it tells me is that you have no knowledge of statement analysis. If you did, you would realize that I do not use any of the names that were given in the post posted by I'maGrandma and that you falsely accuse me of. You are unable to distinguish truth from deception. The initials I use are my real ones. They are the same initials taken from my real name, my only email addy, my website, my legal name, my business cards and my duly licensed and registered business license. I do not have another name.
You, and a few more like you, have been sitting here all this time wasting Peter's time. I could have laughed out loud at the stupidity of your post as it really is funny, but I do have compassion for Peter and knowing that he needs to sell his training classes and books. I would imagine that he ignores many comments on some of these posts for that very reason; and some, likely realizing that they are incapable of learning yet he keeps plugging away at it.
It is a shame however, when his time is valuable, that he keeps giving us free training over and over and works so hard at it, but has people sitting here like you who have not learned doddle squat from his years of hard teaching and burning the mid-night oil. Unreachable and/or untrainable, bordering on the simple minded. Somewhere you fit into one of these categories. I'm sorry for you. ABB
The funniest part about you reminiscing about your childhood, ABB was this line that you wrote
"I even remember putting dirt in my mouth a few times, then she would wash my mouth out with soap."
Would you consider that neglect or abuse ABB, since you seemed to have strong opinions about everything from the horrors of sunburn to the abuse of letting children play without shoes?
It is really amazing (or shall I say disheartening) how a Statement Analysis blog can devolve into a playground free-for-all or some type of Roman Forum, complete with the back-stabbing and hate-mongering. It would be really nice (not to mention, mature) if we could remember that we're here to discuss Statement Analysis in a missing toddler case...his name is DeOrr Kunz Jr and he's two years old.
Common courtesy and good manners dictate that if you don't agree with/don't like someone's opinion, simply scroll and roll on by...as opposed to verbally flaming the poster. If you choose to post on this or any other public forum, you should expect other posters to have differing opinions. Sometimes, that means others may disagree with you or ask you to support your position with facts (statements made by the parties involved in the alleged crime, investigating the alleged crime, or the victim). When people can't logically discuss, debate, and defend their position, they will always resort to personal attacks because that's all they have. I kind of thought we were above that here.
The whole point of this blog is to teach Statement Analysis...How to think logically, objectively, analytically and how to apply those skills.
A short Interview with Sheriff Bowerman, in which he gives clarification regarding events as laid out in his earlier interview. All agencies are starting over with the investigation - so, no possibility of this becoming a cold case any time soon.
Guest: Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman to discuss missing toddler, Deorr Kunz Jr., missing from Leadore Idaho, July 10, 2015
Thursday, October 15, 2015 01:30 Tricia Griffith (TG): Tonight we’re pleased to welcome Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman, and Sheriff Bowerman, thank you for joining us tonight. I know you’re busy and we’ll try not to keep you very long, okay?
01:41 Sheriff Bowerman (SB): Well…I’ll see what I can answer for you.
01:45 TG: Thank you very much and first of all, the first question is, how do you pronounce your county, is it (typed phonetically as spoken) Lem’-eye or Lem-eye’ or
01:53 SB: Yeah. Lem’-high.
TG: Lem’-hi. Just exactly like how it’s spelled. I just made that way too difficult. Sorry about that, but anyway, Sheriff Bowerman, thank you very, very much. We have one question, one area that we want to clear up, and that is, and I’m hoping you can help us with that tonight, that is when Deorr was seen at the store, with his parents, do you know for certain if he was ever actually seen at the store? That just seems real ambiguous uh to any
SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you!”
02:45 SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!
03:18 TG: Well, and the thing is, a busy day like that camping, nobody’s going to think, I better remember who’s in the store. It just doesn’t work like that.
03:26 SB: Yeah, exactly. It’s not uncommon. It’s a small community, and uh the salesclerk said she was really busy, and she was having difficulty remembering them being in the store, but when she saw them, she said, Oh, I remember talking to you.
TG: to the parents, right. So, again, that’s just something that’s ambiguous but not necessarily suspicious at all just because it was a busy time, and I’m assuming there is no video?
03:48 SB: Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and…and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver’s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don’t have any video.
TG: We’re talking with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman. Sheriff Bowerman is in charge in the investigation of missing toddler, Deorr Kunz, Jr., and we’re talking about uh right before the call was made basically uh before the 911 call was made that Deorr was missing, so now we have the parents back at the campground with Deorr after the visit to the store. Was Deorr seen at that time, after the store visit, do you know by anybody in the campground?
04:29 SB: Just…just the four people that were originally with him and that’s Grandpa’s...Great Grandpa’s friend, Great Grandpa and the two parents.
04:39 TG: Right! Okay! So, from about 1 pm, and this is…I’m not going to get very specific here because I know you can’t go into detail, but from 1 pm till about to when the phone call was made about 45 minutes later, um what you have to go on is what the parents, the great grandfather and the grandfather’s friend has… have said, right?
04:58 SB: That’s correct!
04:59 TG: Okay!
04:59 SB: That’s correct! The family came back to the campground. Uh the friend said he was catching some fish and, and the parents said, “Well can you show us the fish?” They start down to the creek which is about 50 feet below the campground, and it’s not very well observed from the campground, in fact you actually can’t see the creek. You can hear it.
05:19 SB: And they turned and looked at their son and asked him if he wanted to stay with Grandpa or go with them, and he said, “Grandpa,” and started walking towards uh Grandpa. So, mom and dad go down over the creek with…with the friend. They start doing some fishing. Grandpa says he’s watching the child. He’s looking at him momentarily. He looks away, when he looks back the child is gone, and he assumes that the child has gone back down to mom and dad, because it’s just over…just over the hillside, just a little ways.
05: TG: Right! And boy that’s…you…you and I both know, Sheriff Bowerman, that’s all it takes is one second to look away and
05:57 SB: Exactly! Exactly!
05:58 TG: and it becomes every parent’s worst nightmare
06:01 SB: It does!
06:01 TG: Sheriff Bowerman, I know you’re very busy, but I’m going to implore you, we have to take a quick break. I just have a few more questions for you if we could come back. I want to talk a little bit, just a little bit more about the case and a few other things then, and I really want to get to your statement that you made about social media ‘cause I thought it was so right on, and I can’t wait to hear that as well so, could you stay with us for just like two minutes and then we’ll be right back?
06:24 SB: I sure will!
06:25 TG: Okay, thank you, Sheriff. We’ll be back in just a minute on True Crime Radio. This is the iHeart Radio Network, and we’re opening chat! Talk in a bit.
07:06 TG: And welcome back to True Crime Radio. We’re talking with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman. Sheriff Bowerman is in charge of the case of missing toddler, Deorr Kunz, Jr., who went missing while he was camping with his parents, his great grandfather, and his great grandfather’s friend on July 10, 2015 at the Timber Creek Campground in Idaho. Sheriff Bowerman, is this case, is Deorr’s case creeping towards becoming a cold case?
07:32 SB: Well…I mean it’s been exactly or just a little bit over three months, uh, you know we’re actively uh still working the case. Um we’re almost up there almost every weekend. Anytime we get a tip, well of course we’re working with other law enforcement agencies throughout the United States to make sure that we’re uh… that we’re following up on all leads and uh, you know it’s been a lengthy process, but I wouldn’t say it’s a cold case yet.
08:00 TG: Well, that is very good to hear! Do you know if the FBI is completely finished or do you still keep in contact with them?
08:06 SB: No, we’re still in contact with the FBI. I would actually say Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office in Idaho Falls probably has more contact with them because they’re over in that part of the state and they’re keeping in real close contact.
08:22 TG: Okay. Uh, you have said, about the parents, uh and all the adults basically that um that they’re not suspects but they’re persons of interest and that, that seems to be a little bit confusing. Can you explain that? I think I know what you mean but I would like to hear it from you. They’re not suspects. Do you suspect them of having anything to do with uh Deorr’s disappearance?
08:46 SB: No, at this time I don’t consider them suspects, uh, and the only reason I’m calling them a person of interest is because they were at the scene. Uh, they’re the only people at the scene other than one family that was at the upper lake that was from another county and…and the law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we talked about has vouched for them and uh they’re an older couple, and we’ve been reassured by law enforcement that they would not be involved in any abduction or any of that sorts so um…
09:16 SB: The four people that we have, the parents, the great grandfather and the grandfather’s friend are the only people we have, so uh they’re persons of interest only because they were at the scene.
09:29 TG: Understood. Okay. Uh, are you able to comment on if anybody has taken a polygraph or not?
09:36 SB: Well, I can tell you that all four people have taken polygraphs. I’m not willing to discuss um um the uh…the findings of those polygraphs at this point. Uh we’re um having some including the FBI look at the results just to give us uh their impression and uh, you know um those are difficult uh interviews and uh you know the polygraph uh experts uh, you know, sometimes they don’t agree, so…uh we’re looking at those real close and we’re doing a behavioral analysis based on their statements uh at the time of their interview.
10:12 TG: Okay, thank you, and I certainly understand why you can’t comment, but I have to ask or people get mad at me, you know how that goes. Okay! Sheriff Bowerman, uh this is something I have not heard of, but in our chatroom, uh one of our members brings it up, Steelman85901 asks, uh, to ask you about the EMT bag that was mentioned during the parents’ interview and then never mentioned again. Do you know what that is about by chance?
10:37 SB: You know I believe that one of the uh volunteers was up in the area and their vehicle was broke into. It might have been left unlocked, but something…an EMT bag was…was taken from them
10:53 TG: Mmm hmmm
10:53 SB: while they were up doing the search and uh
10:56 TG: So…but it wasn’t anything to do with
SB: I’m not sure if we ever determined uh who took it or what the circumstances were surrounding that.
11:02 TG: Right. And so there’s no reason to even believe it had anything to do with Deorr’s case or his
11:07 SB: Not at the time, no.
11:09 TG: Okay, and you have…you have searched at great lengths and great depths the reservoir and the stream…uh creek.
11:17 SB: Yes! We dove the reservoir at least four days. We put a side-scan sonar in on one day. We also uh flew a helicopter both in daylight and at night with the FLIR to illuminate for body heat, and we found absolutely nothing other than our canines alerted on it but we found that someone had come in behind us and had uh put some human cremains in of a loved one and that kind of threw our dogs off.
11:51 TG: Oh! So like spreading the ashes of their loved one and then the dog goes there and is like, hey, there’s human remains. Oh, boy! That must be frustrating!
11:59 SB: Right. And in the creek, from the…from the campground down approximately two miles, we literally walked that, waded it in hip boots and 20-30 people were removing every uh tree, limb, every branch. We had a device, a tubular device with plexiglass on it, that we could actually look down into the water and they reached under every embankment and literally uh tore that creek apart looking for uh Deorr.
12:31 TG: So obviously I think the first place everybody thinks is Oh my gosh, the poor kid fell in the water, was taken down, maybe stuck under a rock or something, but you feel confident that you have searched the creek and the reservoir enough that you feel confident that you need to start looking else… or continue to look elsewhere, right?
12:50 SB: Exactly! We had…we’ve had a total of uh I believe 18 dogs in there and those dogs should have alerted, you know even after the fact, after the length of time that we’d been looking should alert should that child be in there, but my two scent dogs that were in there initially, they should have found that child. They really should have.
13:13 TG: And so are there any more plans to use those cadaver dogs or any search dogs at the moment?
13:17 SB: You know, I’m still getting calls from volunteers from all over the United States offering to come in with their dogs. I’m not sure at this point we’ve uh…We’ve covered every inch literally 20-30 times. You know, I’m not sure how productive that would be, so I’ve asked them to use their resources for something that is maybe a little bit more um…fresh as far as someone going missing. You know keep their resources close for their own uh…for their own cases and uh and I feel like we’ve done an adequate and a complete search.
13:54 TG: Well, that’s true. Every day people go missing and those search dogs are definitely needed all over the country.
14:01 SB: Yes, they are!
14:01 TG: I’m...I’m glad that we had a chance to talk, Sheriff, because I … I feel confident now that you have searched every …everywhere in the creek and the reservoir. That was my main concern. Now um before I let you go, because I’m so thrilled that you’re here, you had a message. You made a statement, let me say that about social media, and I am obviously involved in social media. I have this podcast, I own Websleuths.com, and the one thing we always tell people on Websleuths is, your words have power. If you come on and just start throwing stuff out there like it’s a fact, you’re going to mess everything up, and then rumors get started, and then it’s a fact, and then everything is just a mess, and that’s one of the reasons why sometimes law enforcement won’t come and use what we have to offer. What did you tell that reporter about social media? It was just brilliant!
15:54 SB: Well, you know, there’s been all sorts of conversations on both Facebook and Twitter and…and everything else and it’s getting to the point now where it’s getting real confusing. It’s not real constructive, and uh I would like to concentrate on uh facts, help uh us look for um some evidence or some clothing or a valid sighting on some family that has never had a 2 ½ year old and then all of a sudden they have a 2 ½ year old in their …included in their family. Um…but all the negativism and uh all the rumors have been really not very constructive and it really kept my officers so busy chasing uh just uh shadows and uh that’s really complicated the investigation.
15:44 TG: Sheriff Bowerman, I agree with you and unfortunately I think sometimes just a few people get carried away behind their keyboards and they don’t realize what they’re saying and doing and how much it can cause a problem, so let’s just stick with the facts so when I go back to Websleuths I can tell the people, these are the facts, we’re not going to let you go off on wild and crazy tangents. No more, we’re done! The fact of the matter is uh that you are relying on, and you feel confident in, the statements given by Deorr’s parents, the great grandfather, and the friend. Uh, he could have been at the store that day, the little country store that day but the woman’s not sure because it was a busy day. You don’t feel that is any …that’s not indicative of something wrong, it was just a busy day, because she’s not going to remember people that come in.
16:35 SB: Exactly!
16:35 TG: Okay. The people that saw Deorr were the four adults, and again you feel confident in what they are saying. Um, you say they are not suspects, but everybody that was there is a person of interest because they may have something to offer, not necessarily because they’re guilty of anything, right?
16:55 SB: That’s correct.
16:55 TG: Okay. You did mention something earlier and I want to clear this up. You said something about a…a family, an older family that um…
17:03 SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.
17:44 TG: Do you have any thoughts to a scenario where…I can’t imagine he was snatched by an animal since he was so close. I would think he would have screamed, people would have heard him, uh, are you thinking…again maybe you can’t even comment that perhaps it was a stranger who grabbed him or he ran off in the woods and you just haven’t found him yet?
18:07 SB: Now this is really rugged country. Uh real steep on one side and uh downhill and uh just a lot of rocky, rough terrain. You know we’ve got wolves. We’ve got mountain lions. We have bears. We have mountain lions…er…I mean wolves and bears in the campground on the first weekend of our search. We found both, so we’ve got a lot of dangerous animals in the area. The clothing he was wearing, I really think we would have found an article of clothing had an animal taken him and uh so you know I’m perplexed right now. I’m struggling to uh figure this one out, but we’re going to continue searching and we’re going to continue interviewing and looking for any evidence and uh we’re hoping for a break.
18:58 TG: One more question if I may, please, from our chat room. The parents have been criticized for not helping enough. Now that could just be they’re helping and not getting all the media attention. Do you feel the parents could do more or are they still helping and cooperating and is everything good as far as that goes?
19:15 SB: Well, they’re…they’re cooperating 100% and anytime we’ve asked them to come in. Uh we had them come in and do some sketches on the person that was seen at the store that they felt looked at Deorr suspiciously. We had them come in and do sketches on the man and we showed him around the community and Leadore and didn’t come up with any positive ID, but any time we’ve asked them they’ve come in. They were up at the campground for…quite awhile uh during the initial search. We asked them not to…to uh assist in the actual search, and they stayed just outside the campground and uh had their friends come up and family members and…and they did their own search outside the area we were searching and…and so… Yeah, they’ve been more than cooperative. Um…
20:08 TG: Ok. That’s very good to hear, and I…I apologize. I didn’t lie, I was mistaken. I have one more question. Um, sorry about that. Uh…do you… oh, no! I forgot my question! I was all kerfluffled here um…Heaven’s sakes I have totally, totally forgotten my question. Hold on, I’ve got it right here. This is very professional. This is how you do professional radio. O…kay! Well, I’ll tell you what. I can’t … I thought I had it in front of me and I didn’t uh, Sheriff Bowerman, thank you so much… Oh! I know what it was! What could… what can we do? I know you said that we can, you know, people can help by concentrating on the facts but, we have a large forum. You know, we have over 87,000 members from all over the world, a lot of them reading Deorr’s thread and information, what advice would you give them that could help? We have one minute.
21:01 SB: All right. Unfortunately, the child is a small, young child who looks like every other 2 ½ year old boy with blonde hair, so if you know of a family that you think you see a child that looks similar, um, and they didn’t have a child before, then call my office, but if you see a child you think resembles him, call the local law enforcement. Get them involved. They can contact me. They can get uh information from my office as far as uh height, weight, hair color
21:32 TG: Right!
21:32 SB: and everything that would …and including a birthmark that’s seen on his neck. He has a distinct birthmark and we put that out to the Polly Klaas Foundation…
21:40 TG: Sheriff Bowerman, I apologize. I apologize. My computer is going to cut me off.
21:45 SB: No problem.
21:45 TG: Thank you so much and uh now that you have my number, don’t hesitate to call if you have anything we can do for you, and you have cleared up a lot and it’s going to make a big difference. Take care, Sheriff Bowerman, and thank you so much!
SHERIFF: FBI UNABLE TO ANALYZE SOME EVIDENCE IN DEORR KUNZ CASE LOCAL 0 Updated at 5:00 am, October 17th, 2015 By: Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com SHARE THIS STORYdeorr SALMON – The Lemhi County sheriff says the FBI is unable to analyze some evidence in the case of a missing Idaho Falls toddler.
DeOrr Kunz Jr. disappeared July 10 while on a camping trip with his family at Timber Creek Campground in Leadore. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office has been investigating the case since the beginning and, in August, Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told EastIdahoNews.com that polygraph test results and other evidence were turned over the FBI.
“The FBI informed us that they could not analyze some evidence that we gave them,” Bowerman wrote in an email to EastIdahoNews.com Friday. “I’m not sure what that’s about, and they still haven’t provided me any behavioral analysis.”
Bowerman says the search for the 2-year-old continues and his department plans to use the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and the Polly Klaas Foundation to help with the investigation.
Nearly a dozen billboards and digital readers featuring DeOrr have gone up across Idaho this week, and his family says they continue to share and post flyers featuring DeOrr’s image.
Meanwhile, a private investigator working with DeOrr’s parents, Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr., tells EastIdahoNews.com he has severed ties with the family over “disagreements.”
Bowerman says those on the camping trip — DeOrr’s parents, great-grandfather Robert Walton and family friend Isaac Reinwand — have been cooperative from the beginning.
Next week, Bowerman says, he will be traveling to Idaho Falls to meet with Bonneville County detectives to determine the next steps to take in the case.
CLICK HERE FOR COMPLETE COVERAGE OF THE DEORR KUNZ JR. CASE
Sheriff Bowerman, in his recent media engagements, still makes no mention of the six o' clock sighting of the gentleman with the filthy bawling child in the problem black truck. He appears to be going along with the parents claim that this was the Friday morning visit to the store - he mentions only one visit - however, there is no positive sighting of little DeOrr in the truck or in the store on Friday morning. How, then, can this be the six o clock store sighting of DeOrr ('it was me, but earlier') with a filthy bawling child, seen by a store clerk - the sighting which Jessica herself wanted discounted as rumour, whilst DeOrr claims it WAS him? If he had not been there with a filthy, bawling little DeOrr, would he have not said, quite simply, 'It wasn't me?' The time would not be the deciding factor in his denial, but whether or not he had a filthy, bawling child in the truck. This is where he should have said it wasn't him, his son was NOT filthy and bawling in the truck - this he does not deny, he merely questions the time, whereas he should have been absolutely positive it could not have been him, because DeOrr was not with him in that distressed condition. What parent would not jump on that immediately, rather than the time, if it was not the case? Surely this would be the real issue, the denial, rather than merely the time? I wonder why this, which seems an important issue, and marks out one store visit from the other, is not, so far being addressed? DeOrr with filthy bawling blond boy 'matching out description of our son' (it WAS me - DeOrr at six o clock) - just the two of them mentioned - and Friday morning store visit 'as a family' where no-one, apparently recalls seeing a little boy, much less a filthy bawling child in a black truck. As a six o clock visit was not possible on Friday (DeOrr was already missing, and the parents were with search and rescue till a quarter to four that day, according to DeOrr Sr) it seems it could only have been on the Thursday, though the family claimed, albeit belatedly, that they did not arrive until 9.30pm on Thursday evening. It is curious that, so far, Sheriff Bowerman, in any interview, has not addressed the sighting which Jessica wanted discounted as rumour, despite DeOrr claiming it was him.
I have wondered if Jessica maybe made up the rumour herself in order to create the idea that there had been an abductor, who also happened to drive a black truck - that might account for her keenness for it not to be taken to have been DeOrr, and her apparent lack of concern that the guy might have taken the baby. It is odd that her main concern seems to be that people should not believe it was DeOrr - but if it was not him, why the lack of hysteria about it possibly being an abductor with her son? If there was no such sighting, if there is no lady store clerk who remembers seeing the baby in the truck, and so far there is not, well - that would be interesting. So, is the Sheriff not addressing the six o clock sighting because there was no sighting? If no sighting, how, and from whom, did Jessica hear the rumour, and why did DeOrr volunteer that it was him, whilst not denying the state the baby was said to be in?
That the Sheriff does not address the sighting, or has not so far, has got to be interesting.
635 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 635 of 635ABB, Anne, Maggie (& the rest of the 3 M's), EyeoftheNewt, Karma, Sami, etc., etc., etc.:
Give it a rest.
Yes. Please.
This case is haunting me. I sincerely hope they find little Deorr soon, there are really so few facts and so many unanswered questions as of yet.
Facts that have been confirmed by LE as reported by news report or LE interviews:
1. 99% sure DJ was at the campsite.
2. Cadaver dogs were brought in, alerted at reservoir and kept returning to campsite. Search dogs led authorities to Stone Reservoir, human remains were scattered near the Timbercreek Reservoir on July 2, 2015 (8 days before DJ was reported missing)
3. Conflicting reports about when the family arrived at the Timber Creek Campground in Leadore-the group actually arrived late on Thursday July 9th.
4. LE does not believe the child was abducted.
5. “I don’t believe the store has a surveillance (system), but we have a receipt that shows they purchased certain items,” Bowerman said. “The time was stamped on the receipt, so we believe that’s where they went.”
6. I feel real good about the parents and the grandfather. Reinwand has also been questioned, I’m not getting any feeling that he’s not being truthful.
7. Everyone at the campsite has had their vehicles and homes searched several times.
8. We’ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we’ve given them some physical evidence.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/
http://www.examiner.com/article/deorr-kunz-jr-update-scent-dogs-thrown-off-search-of-missing-idaho-toddler
Questions, unconfirmed information:
Not certain the boy was there. (99% sure)
Human remains dumped near reservoir might have confused search dogs. Maybe, but maybe not. Ashes, bones, and soft tissue remains all have different smells. Some dogs are trained to identify all 3, some are not. They may not have been on the wrong trail at all. I'm also unclear as to whether canines were brought in the first day or not until the 3rd day. Search dogs on day 1 and cadaver dogs on day 3? Does anyone having clarifying details? This may not be important to some people, but I'd be very interested to read the actual report of what kinds of dogs, when and where/what their behaviors were.
Initial deception by parents about the day/time the family arrived. Why?
Parents admit father was at the store with the child earlier in the day on Friday, but not at 6pm. A receipt was provided with a timestamp-does not mean someone else didn't go purchase items on Friday and no information on how the items were paid for. I can't find any information about the store clerk other than in the parents own statement in their first interview. Does anyone have a link where a reporter or LE confirm this clerk sighting?
Sheriff "feels good about the parents and grandfather", "believes IR is being truthful" but has also qualified all 4 as persons of interest in other statements.
Provided FBI with behavioral analysis and "some" physical evidence. No idea what type of evidence Sheriff Bowerman is referencing.
Statement analysis shows plenty of deception by DS, but poor interviewing does not qualify any of it so we really don't know whether he is feeling guilty about leaving his son alone, camping near all that water, or has guilty knowledge of where his son is and what happened. It's entirely possible this family just wasn't watching the kid close enough and he wandered off and has yet to be located. It's also entirely possible one of those 4 adults did something or covered up an accidental death. Finally, it is slightly possible something happened to the child before they even arrived and his body is not anywhere near the Timbercreek campground.
Contrary to my statements posted above as to what happened to little Deorr, I now believe he was abducted, or wondered off without the knowledge of his family. I believe there is no conspiracy or premeditated actions. I believe little Deorr was at the campsite, and either met with an abduction or an unfortunate accident/death.
Add,
Signed
momE to above anon post @2:59
I'maGrandma @ 1:44; are you actually referring to ME as all those names? You couldn't be further from the truth. I particularly resent you calling me "Karma". I don't even believe in Karma since it is NOT in the Bible. SOME nerve you have.
SOOo, here's another old cow who just wants to bicker and argue. You surprise me with your evil intent. I thought better of you. And to think, I sat here wishing you well for your sick father, yourself and your family. I even said a prayer for him and you. In spite of yourself, I still do wish you ALL well. ABB
What is wrong with you people? Most of you are acting very childish with your bickering.
Good question, Anon @4:33. I don't have the answer. I really don't.
I'm thinking that it might be best for me to just back off and drop out for a while. I've already had enough to deal with without constantly having to defend myself against one slam and then another. Besides that, I'm not well anyway, certainly not well enough to have to defend myself all the time. I just hate bickering, it zaps all my strength and leaves me short of breath.
Neither is the anger worth it. For now, the stress is just too much for me.
Guess it's best for me to bid ado for a while. I wish you all the best. I'll probably drop by again one of these days. Meanwhile, those who hate me for no reason can just have it. It's just more than I can take. Sincerely, AB
Sorry to see you go, ABB. Take care.
MzOpinionated,
I kind of doubt that the part of the shoe would be suspected by anyone, including Jessica, as belonging to the abductor. Seriously, I have never heard of an abductor losing a shoe. What you almost always hear are things left behind by the one who has been abducted.
To me, it was presented strangely as a potential clue: it could not have belonged to baby DeOrr and the odds of the abductor losing his own shoe would be negligible.
I believe it is an example of the "confusion clues" they throw out because they simply could not be clues that help solve any aspect of the case..
MomE,
I respect your opinion, however I do disagree.
This was not an abduction.
Analysis of the parent interview shows much deception as well as bizarre focus on things that do not involve the plight of their child.
Off the top of my head I will list a few, and I will further say that some of these elements are typical of sociopaths:
1) Lengthy focus and flattery towards law enforcement, searchers, search equipment, etc. (potential sign of sociopath--excessive flattery)
2) Diversion techniques to avoid addressing issue of the EMT bag
3) Presentation of unsubstantiated and likely fabricated "leads" like the store sighting (sociopath)
4) Focus on irrelevant findings (such as "possible" piece of broken shoe which could not have belonged to baby DeOrr)
5) A bizarre "understanding" of how the layout of the land, sounds from the gurgling creek etc could have provided the perfect setting for an abductor if one ignores just how unlikely an actual abduction was
I think what we have is a case of premeditated murder involving possible psychological torment: Dad DeOrr in my opinion is hiding behind a mask of flattery while cleverly offering up a false sighting, irrelevant "clues", as well as a Grandmother who also offers up a useless clue of an allegedly disposed of diaper belonging to DeOrr.
These people are attempting to divert attention, essentially saying "look here, not there". We as statement analysts need to see where it is LE should be looking, what are Mom and Dad DeOrr diverting away from? Where should LE be looking? What really happened? I think we need to figure out what are they trying to take our attention away from.
For example, I think the "insect reppellent/shoe clue along with statements such as "most toddlers leave a trail" tells us there is nothing to be found within the search area and this is known to the parents.
Next thing to look at would be the "store sighting": is this to try to make it appear that baby DeOrr was spotted as being alive after he was already dead. Most likely. What about the leakage in the statement then? "Gentleman, bawling, filthy, truck, lady who worked in the store, matched our description of our son..."
The buying of "feminine products" and calling grandma to tell her about this.
Hauling up the road for better reception, one bar on phone, Dad feels so "lucky an blessed" Mom got through to 911.
Mom having no emotional reaction when 911 operator asks her if they were near water, replying with a neutral "yes".
Let's figure the case out.
I think we are close.
ABB stay. I enjoy your posts. If they don't want to read what you have to say, then oh well. Ignore them. Turn a blind eye. Juliet brought it on herself this past time.
But if you do decided to go for awhile, I for one will be here when you return.
Ps. The campfire thing bothered me too.
I had a close relative pass in that manner, not by a campfire, but while burning ground bees. It was horrible.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Anon that wished you well.
ABB, I know the photo was taken at least a year ago because a) I have eyes, and it's clear he's much younger in the photo, and b) it's a public photo from Trina's FB page and the date she posted it gives a frame of reference.
It bugs me to no end that they call him DeOrr Jr when he is NOT a junior. His name is not exactly the same as his father's, therefore he's not a junior. Makes them seem like such uneducated rednecks. But then again, their social media posts do that, also.
Ok, here is what Trina told me about the EMT bag. It was taken out of someone's vehicle on Saturday, July 11, 2015 during the searches. I am not sure if the window was broken out, or if the door was left unlocked.
Interesting article: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/09/unsocial-media-law-enforcement-weighs-benefits-and-drawbacks-of-social-media/
If you think sunburn and loose fitting boots and dirt from playing is abuse, just let the state with its professional hiring tools rush into help. Here's an example of the caliber of people they are able to provide to service the needy:
http://www.people.com/article/mother-charged-murder-allegedly-tossing-baby-window
Justice4DeOrr,
What vehicle? Was it a family member's vehicle?
momE September 25, 2015 at 11:25 AM said "I've been lied to, about, betrayed by close relatives for decades".
Even sinners/slanderers/deceivers like your close relatives can choose to be honest, make amends and pay compensation. This often happens as people grow old and contemplate judgement day with their God ..... or other relatives may choose to make things right when the patriarch/matriarch loses power or dies.
Thank you anon for your kind words on 9/29 @ 8:21 p.m. I appreciate it more than you know. Just wanted you to know. Thought I'd stop in for a little while, have so much to do that I've been procrastinating on for too long.
I started thinking, maybe I mistook Grandma's post (above) to mean she was calling ME all those various posting fake names, which highly offended me since I've been falsely accused before; but maybe what she meant was that she was telling ALL of us too give it a rest. Whatevah! Who is SHE to tell US what to do?
In any case, she doesn't have to right to tell any of us to "give it a rest". Is she the boss uv this thread? This is not her blog site, it belongs to Peter; bought and paid for by Peter. Now, if HE were to tell us to give it a rest, that would be a whole other matter.
So now, little DeOrr has been missing since sometime in early July? More like nearly two months? Do you, or does anyone know, if the parents and others are still camped out at the campsite, supposedly searching for him? If so, I wonder why since daddy DeOrr made it so emphatically clear that he is not up there, that every stone and rock has been turned and looked under, every trickle, stream, brook and river has been searched, every bush looked behind, and there is not hide nor hair of him there? (Guess he oughta know, right?)
But there is no evidence that he ever WAS there! Trina finding a soiled diaper in a bag hanging from a tree limb waiting to be disposed of that she pitched, doesn't mean that little DeOrr was ever there. It could have been a dirty diaper removed from DeOrr's truck from previous use, or an old diaper left by previous campers, or one worn by a child of one of the volunteers who was there fixing food for the search volunteers. I don't believe for one second that the sheriff or his deputy would have allowed a diaper to be pitched that could have been used as possible evidence in their search, unless they are dumber than I think they are. Uh uh. NOT. ABB
Wait a minute. That would be more like THREE months the sweet little boy has been missing. Are they STILL hanging out at the campsite? Maybe traveling around the country putting out flyers? Baby daddy claims he was kidnapped; if not why not? ABB
In re some of the above posts that I wish to make a few remarks concerning, without going into much detail on any one post in particular, and with all due respect for the opinions of others:
1) It is MY opinion AND belief, that little DeOrr was terribly neglected. Neglect constitutes abuse whether it is a physical slamming of the child's head against the dashboard of an automobile cracking his skull and breaking his neck; or whether it was sun poisoning on the child's sensitive skin as is clearly shown in his photo, due to being left in the hot sun unprotected for HOURS, regardless as to his age, whether he was one, 1-1/2, 2 or 2-1/2;
His skin was horribly sun-burned. There is no excuse for this other than sheer neglect by his caretaker, mother or whoever. LOOK at his little face. THIS is neglect and constituted the same as abuse by DCF investigators. No, I am NOT a DCF investigator, but I HAVE been a probation officer and I DO know many of their determinations as to what constitutes abuse and is treated as such. Rightly so.
2) It IS neglect to put a pair of ill fitting shoes (in this case heavy too-large boots) on a toddler for him to have to struggle with keeping on his feet and still be able to walk in them. Could these whackos AFFORD shoes for their little boy? Yes ma'am, they could. They can afford the gasoline for a camping trip, they can afford shoes for their baby. Was he wearing thick sox to help buffer the damage that was being done to his feet? In the hot summer time?
How do I know these boots would have been hurting the little boy's feet? Because I said so. Why would I say so? I have had to WEAR ill fitting shoes when I was a child. My family was poor, there were seven children, we ALL had to wear each others hand-me-downs, it was very rare for any one child to get a new pair of shoes of our very own. I have worn shoes that were too tight that hurt my feet very badly, I have worn shoes that had to have the toes filled in with cotton or a sock just to keep them on my feet, I have worn shoes that rubbed against my heels until they were raw and bleeding, and cramped my toes until they had blisters and became numb. Don't tell ME that wearing ill fitting shoes is not neglect and does not hurt the child's feet, when I KNOW better, unless the parent has no other choice. They DID. Mine didn't.
3) Don't tell ME that allowing a child to play in the dirt without frequently cleaning him up and to go dirty is not abuse. Oh yes it is. It is neglect and neglect is abuse. When I was growing up we had very few toys to play with. We played in the dirt for HOURS with nothing more than a little block of wood to drive around in the dirt and make roads, etc., and rocks for people; while our mother did laundry, cleaned, worked in the garden, or prepared food and still checked on us.
Our favorite place to play was under the house where we would sit and play for half a day at the time, IN THE DIRT and out of the sun. My mother knew we were under there and were safe there. I even remember putting dirt in my mouth a few times, then she would wash my mouth out with soap. A lot of the time we were barefoot. The county nurse who visited occasionally told my mother to stop allowing this, that we could get pinworms from walking in the dirt barefoot and from sitting in it. We had to take the pinworm treatments several times. Country people were dumb back then. Today the way we lived would not be acceptable; it would be considered gross neglect and neglect IS abuse.
Little DeOrr WAS neglected and I'm just not going to keep defending this and I can't imagine anyone who would unless it is someone who has neglected their own child(ren) and are trying to justify themselves. ABB
Anon @ 12:48; your post was very enlightening. What it tells me is that you have no knowledge of statement analysis. If you did, you would realize that I do not use any of the names that were given in the post posted by I'maGrandma and that you falsely accuse me of. You are unable to distinguish truth from deception. The initials I use are my real ones. They are the same initials taken from my real name, my only email addy, my website, my legal name, my business cards and my duly licensed and registered business license. I do not have another name.
You, and a few more like you, have been sitting here all this time wasting Peter's time. I could have laughed out loud at the stupidity of your post as it really is funny, but I do have compassion for Peter and knowing that he needs to sell his training classes and books. I would imagine that he ignores many comments on some of these posts for that very reason; and some, likely realizing that they are incapable of learning yet he keeps plugging away at it.
It is a shame however, when his time is valuable, that he keeps giving us free training over and over and works so hard at it, but has people sitting here like you who have not learned doddle squat from his years of hard teaching and burning the mid-night oil. Unreachable and/or untrainable, bordering on the simple minded. Somewhere you fit into one of these categories. I'm sorry for you. ABB
ABB,
The funniest part about you reminiscing about your childhood, ABB was this line that you wrote
"I even remember putting dirt in my mouth a few times, then she would wash my mouth out with soap."
Would you consider that neglect or abuse ABB, since you seemed to have strong opinions about everything from the horrors of sunburn to the abuse of letting children play without shoes?
It is really amazing (or shall I say disheartening) how a Statement Analysis blog can devolve into a playground free-for-all or some type of Roman Forum, complete with the back-stabbing and hate-mongering. It would be really nice (not to mention, mature) if we could remember that we're here to discuss Statement Analysis in a missing toddler case...his name is DeOrr Kunz Jr and he's two years old.
Common courtesy and good manners dictate that if you don't agree with/don't like someone's opinion, simply scroll and roll on by...as opposed to verbally flaming the poster. If you choose to post on this or any other public forum, you should expect other posters to have differing opinions. Sometimes, that means others may disagree with you or ask you to support your position with facts (statements made by the parties involved in the alleged crime, investigating the alleged crime, or the victim). When people can't logically discuss, debate, and defend their position, they will always resort to personal attacks because that's all they have. I kind of thought we were above that here.
The whole point of this blog is to teach Statement Analysis...How to think logically, objectively, analytically and how to apply those skills.
Rant over. ;)
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/10/film-crew-producing-documentary-on-missing-deorr-kunz-jr/
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/2015/10/06/new-developments-in-missing-2-year-old-deorr-kunz-jr-case/73483858/
Per another site:
Frank Vilt the PI has confirmed he has left the case and withdrawn the reward.
http://www.crimewatchers.net/forum/index.php?threads/deorr-kunz-missing-from-lemhi-county-id-10-july-2015-age-2.1421/page-11 (entry #204)
http://www.localnews8.com/news/3-months-still-no-sign-of-missing-toddler/35762562
A short Interview with Sheriff Bowerman, in which he gives clarification regarding events as laid out in his earlier interview. All agencies are starting over with the investigation - so, no possibility of this becoming a cold case any time soon.
TRANSCRIPT - By TxJan1971 from Websleuths
Guest: Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman to discuss missing toddler, Deorr Kunz Jr., missing from Leadore Idaho, July 10, 2015
Thursday, October 15, 2015
01:30
Tricia Griffith (TG): Tonight we’re pleased to welcome Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman, and Sheriff Bowerman, thank you for joining us tonight. I know you’re busy and we’ll try not to keep you very long, okay?
01:41
Sheriff Bowerman (SB): Well…I’ll see what I can answer for you.
01:45
TG: Thank you very much and first of all, the first question is, how do you pronounce your county, is it (typed phonetically as spoken) Lem’-eye or Lem-eye’ or
01:53
SB: Yeah. Lem’-high.
TG: Lem’-hi. Just exactly like how it’s spelled. I just made that way too difficult. Sorry about that, but anyway, Sheriff Bowerman, thank you very, very much. We have one question, one area that we want to clear up, and that is, and I’m hoping you can help us with that tonight, that is when Deorr was seen at the store, with his parents, do you know for certain if he was ever actually seen at the store? That just seems real ambiguous uh to any
SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you!”
02:45
SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!
03:18
TG: Well, and the thing is, a busy day like that camping, nobody’s going to think, I better remember who’s in the store. It just doesn’t work like that.
03:26
SB: Yeah, exactly. It’s not uncommon. It’s a small community, and uh the salesclerk said she was really busy, and she was having difficulty remembering them being in the store, but when she saw them, she said, Oh, I remember talking to you.
TG: to the parents, right. So, again, that’s just something that’s ambiguous but not necessarily suspicious at all just because it was a busy time, and I’m assuming there is no video?
03:48
SB: Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and…and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver’s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don’t have any video.
TG: We’re talking with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman. Sheriff Bowerman is in charge in the investigation of missing toddler, Deorr Kunz, Jr., and we’re talking about uh right before the call was made basically uh before the 911 call was made that Deorr was missing, so now we have the parents back at the campground with Deorr after the visit to the store. Was Deorr seen at that time, after the store visit, do you know by anybody in the campground?
04:29
SB: Just…just the four people that were originally with him and that’s Grandpa’s...Great Grandpa’s friend, Great Grandpa and the two parents.
04:39
TG: Right! Okay! So, from about 1 pm, and this is…I’m not going to get very specific here because I know you can’t go into detail, but from 1 pm till about to when the phone call was made about 45 minutes later, um what you have to go on is what the parents, the great grandfather and the grandfather’s friend has… have said, right?
04:58
SB: That’s correct!
04:59
TG: Okay!
04:59
SB: That’s correct! The family came back to the campground. Uh the friend said he was catching some fish and, and the parents said, “Well can you show us the fish?” They start down to the creek which is about 50 feet below the campground, and it’s not very well observed from the campground, in fact you actually can’t see the creek. You can hear it.
05:19
TG: Mmm hmm.
05:19
SB: And they turned and looked at their son and asked him if he wanted to stay with Grandpa or go with them, and he said, “Grandpa,” and started walking towards uh Grandpa. So, mom and dad go down over the creek with…with the friend. They start doing some fishing. Grandpa says he’s watching the child. He’s looking at him momentarily. He looks away, when he looks back the child is gone, and he assumes that the child has gone back down to mom and dad, because it’s just over…just over the hillside, just a little ways.
05:
TG: Right! And boy that’s…you…you and I both know, Sheriff Bowerman, that’s all it takes is one second to look away and
05:57
SB: Exactly! Exactly!
05:58
TG: and it becomes every parent’s worst nightmare
06:01
SB: It does!
06:01
TG: Sheriff Bowerman, I know you’re very busy, but I’m going to implore you, we have to take a quick break. I just have a few more questions for you if we could come back. I want to talk a little bit, just a little bit more about the case and a few other things then, and I really want to get to your statement that you made about social media ‘cause I thought it was so right on, and I can’t wait to hear that as well so, could you stay with us for just like two minutes and then we’ll be right back?
06:24
SB: I sure will!
06:25
TG: Okay, thank you, Sheriff. We’ll be back in just a minute on True Crime Radio. This is the iHeart Radio Network, and we’re opening chat! Talk in a bit.
07:06
TG: And welcome back to True Crime Radio. We’re talking with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman. Sheriff Bowerman is in charge of the case of missing toddler, Deorr Kunz, Jr., who went missing while he was camping with his parents, his great grandfather, and his great grandfather’s friend on July 10, 2015 at the Timber Creek Campground in Idaho. Sheriff Bowerman, is this case, is Deorr’s case creeping towards becoming a cold case?
07:32
SB: Well…I mean it’s been exactly or just a little bit over three months, uh, you know we’re actively uh still working the case. Um we’re almost up there almost every weekend. Anytime we get a tip, well of course we’re working with other law enforcement agencies throughout the United States to make sure that we’re uh… that we’re following up on all leads and uh, you know it’s been a lengthy process, but I wouldn’t say it’s a cold case yet.
08:00
TG: Well, that is very good to hear! Do you know if the FBI is completely finished or do you still keep in contact with them?
08:06
SB: No, we’re still in contact with the FBI. I would actually say Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office in Idaho Falls probably has more contact with them because they’re over in that part of the state and they’re keeping in real close contact.
08:22
TG: Okay. Uh, you have said, about the parents, uh and all the adults basically that um that they’re not suspects but they’re persons of interest and that, that seems to be a little bit confusing. Can you explain that? I think I know what you mean but I would like to hear it from you. They’re not suspects. Do you suspect them of having anything to do with uh Deorr’s disappearance?
08:46
SB: No, at this time I don’t consider them suspects, uh, and the only reason I’m calling them a person of interest is because they were at the scene. Uh, they’re the only people at the scene other than one family that was at the upper lake that was from another county and…and the law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we talked about has vouched for them and uh they’re an older couple, and we’ve been reassured by law enforcement that they would not be involved in any abduction or any of that sorts so um…
09:16
TG: Mmm hmmm.
09:16
SB: The four people that we have, the parents, the great grandfather and the grandfather’s friend are the only people we have, so uh they’re persons of interest only because they were at the scene.
09:29
TG: Understood. Okay. Uh, are you able to comment on if anybody has taken a polygraph or not?
09:36
SB: Well, I can tell you that all four people have taken polygraphs. I’m not willing to discuss um um the uh…the findings of those polygraphs at this point. Uh we’re um having some including the FBI look at the results just to give us uh their impression and uh, you know um those are difficult uh interviews and uh you know the polygraph uh experts uh, you know, sometimes they don’t agree, so…uh we’re looking at those real close and we’re doing a behavioral analysis based on their statements uh at the time of their interview.
10:12
TG: Okay, thank you, and I certainly understand why you can’t comment, but I have to ask or people get mad at me, you know how that goes. Okay! Sheriff Bowerman, uh this is something I have not heard of, but in our chatroom, uh one of our members brings it up, Steelman85901 asks, uh, to ask you about the EMT bag that was mentioned during the parents’ interview and then never mentioned again. Do you know what that is about by chance?
10:37
SB: You know I believe that one of the uh volunteers was up in the area and their vehicle was broke into. It might have been left unlocked, but something…an EMT bag was…was taken from them
10:53
TG: Mmm hmmm
10:53
SB: while they were up doing the search and uh
10:56
TG: So…but it wasn’t anything to do with
SB:
I’m not sure if we ever determined uh who took it or what the circumstances were surrounding that.
11:02
TG: Right. And so there’s no reason to even believe it had anything to do with Deorr’s case or his
11:07
SB: Not at the time, no.
11:09
TG: Okay, and you have…you have searched at great lengths and great depths the reservoir and the stream…uh creek.
11:17
SB: Yes! We dove the reservoir at least four days. We put a side-scan sonar in on one day. We also uh flew a helicopter both in daylight and at night with the FLIR to illuminate for body heat, and we found absolutely nothing other than our canines alerted on it but we found that someone had come in behind us and had uh put some human cremains in of a loved one and that kind of threw our dogs off.
11:51
TG: Oh! So like spreading the ashes of their loved one and then the dog goes there and is like, hey, there’s human remains. Oh, boy! That must be frustrating!
11:59
SB: Right. And in the creek, from the…from the campground down approximately two miles, we literally walked that, waded it in hip boots and 20-30 people were removing every uh tree, limb, every branch. We had a device, a tubular device with plexiglass on it, that we could actually look down into the water and they reached under every embankment and literally uh tore that creek apart looking for uh Deorr.
12:31
TG: So obviously I think the first place everybody thinks is Oh my gosh, the poor kid fell in the water, was taken down, maybe stuck under a rock or something, but you feel confident that you have searched the creek and the reservoir enough that you feel confident that you need to start looking else… or continue to look elsewhere, right?
12:50
SB: Exactly! We had…we’ve had a total of uh I believe 18 dogs in there and those dogs should have alerted, you know even after the fact, after the length of time that we’d been looking should alert should that child be in there, but my two scent dogs that were in there initially, they should have found that child. They really should have.
13:13
TG: And so are there any more plans to use those cadaver dogs or any search dogs at the moment?
13:17
SB: You know, I’m still getting calls from volunteers from all over the United States offering to come in with their dogs. I’m not sure at this point we’ve uh…We’ve covered every inch literally 20-30 times. You know, I’m not sure how productive that would be, so I’ve asked them to use their resources for something that is maybe a little bit more um…fresh as far as someone going missing. You know keep their resources close for their own uh…for their own cases and uh and I feel like we’ve done an adequate and a complete search.
13:54
TG: Well, that’s true. Every day people go missing and those search dogs are definitely needed all over the country.
14:01
SB: Yes, they are!
14:01
TG: I’m...I’m glad that we had a chance to talk, Sheriff, because I … I feel confident now that you have searched every …everywhere in the creek and the reservoir. That was my main concern. Now um before I let you go, because I’m so thrilled that you’re here, you had a message. You made a statement, let me say that about social media, and I am obviously involved in social media. I have this podcast, I own Websleuths.com, and the one thing we always tell people on Websleuths is, your words have power. If you come on and just start throwing stuff out there like it’s a fact, you’re going to mess everything up, and then rumors get started, and then it’s a fact, and then everything is just a mess, and that’s one of the reasons why sometimes law enforcement won’t come and use what we have to offer. What did you tell that reporter about social media? It was just brilliant!
15:54
SB: Well, you know, there’s been all sorts of conversations on both Facebook and Twitter and…and everything else and it’s getting to the point now where it’s getting real confusing. It’s not real constructive, and uh I would like to concentrate on uh facts, help uh us look for um some evidence or some clothing or a valid sighting on some family that has never had a 2 ½ year old and then all of a sudden they have a 2 ½ year old in their …included in their family. Um…but all the negativism and uh all the rumors have been really not very constructive and it really kept my officers so busy chasing uh just uh shadows and uh that’s really complicated the investigation.
15:44
TG: Sheriff Bowerman, I agree with you and unfortunately I think sometimes just a few people get carried away behind their keyboards and they don’t realize what they’re saying and doing and how much it can cause a problem, so let’s just stick with the facts so when I go back to Websleuths I can tell the people, these are the facts, we’re not going to let you go off on wild and crazy tangents. No more, we’re done! The fact of the matter is uh that you are relying on, and you feel confident in, the statements given by Deorr’s parents, the great grandfather, and the friend. Uh, he could have been at the store that day, the little country store that day but the woman’s not sure because it was a busy day. You don’t feel that is any …that’s not indicative of something wrong, it was just a busy day, because she’s not going to remember people that come in.
16:35
SB: Exactly!
16:35
TG: Okay. The people that saw Deorr were the four adults, and again you feel confident in what they are saying. Um, you say they are not suspects, but everybody that was there is a person of interest because they may have something to offer, not necessarily because they’re guilty of anything, right?
16:55
SB: That’s correct.
16:55
TG: Okay. You did mention something earlier and I want to clear this up. You said something about a…a family, an older family that um…
17:03
SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.
17:44
TG: Do you have any thoughts to a scenario where…I can’t imagine he was snatched by an animal since he was so close. I would think he would have screamed, people would have heard him, uh, are you thinking…again maybe you can’t even comment that perhaps it was a stranger who grabbed him or he ran off in the woods and you just haven’t found him yet?
18:07
SB: Now this is really rugged country. Uh real steep on one side and uh downhill and uh just a lot of rocky, rough terrain. You know we’ve got wolves. We’ve got mountain lions. We have bears. We have mountain lions…er…I mean wolves and bears in the campground on the first weekend of our search. We found both, so we’ve got a lot of dangerous animals in the area. The clothing he was wearing, I really think we would have found an article of clothing had an animal taken him and uh so you know I’m perplexed right now. I’m struggling to uh figure this one out, but we’re going to continue searching and we’re going to continue interviewing and looking for any evidence and uh we’re hoping for a break.
18:58
TG: One more question if I may, please, from our chat room. The parents have been criticized for not helping enough. Now that could just be they’re helping and not getting all the media attention. Do you feel the parents could do more or are they still helping and cooperating and is everything good as far as that goes?
19:15
SB: Well, they’re…they’re cooperating 100% and anytime we’ve asked them to come in. Uh we had them come in and do some sketches on the person that was seen at the store that they felt looked at Deorr suspiciously. We had them come in and do sketches on the man and we showed him around the community and Leadore and didn’t come up with any positive ID, but any time we’ve asked them they’ve come in. They were up at the campground for…quite awhile uh during the initial search. We asked them not to…to uh assist in the actual search, and they stayed just outside the campground and uh had their friends come up and family members and…and they did their own search outside the area we were searching and…and so… Yeah, they’ve been more than cooperative. Um…
20:08
TG: Ok. That’s very good to hear, and I…I apologize. I didn’t lie, I was mistaken. I have one more question. Um, sorry about that. Uh…do you… oh, no! I forgot my question! I was all kerfluffled here um…Heaven’s sakes I have totally, totally forgotten my question. Hold on, I’ve got it right here. This is very professional. This is how you do professional radio. O…kay! Well, I’ll tell you what. I can’t … I thought I had it in front of me and I didn’t uh, Sheriff Bowerman, thank you so much… Oh! I know what it was! What could… what can we do? I know you said that we can, you know, people can help by concentrating on the facts but, we have a large forum. You know, we have over 87,000 members from all over the world, a lot of them reading Deorr’s thread and information, what advice would you give them that could help? We have one minute.
21:01
SB: All right. Unfortunately, the child is a small, young child who looks like every other 2 ½ year old boy with blonde hair, so if you know of a family that you think you see a child that looks similar, um, and they didn’t have a child before, then call my office, but if you see a child you think resembles him, call the local law enforcement. Get them involved. They can contact me. They can get uh information from my office as far as uh height, weight, hair color
21:32
TG: Right!
21:32
SB: and everything that would …and including a birthmark that’s seen on his neck. He has a distinct birthmark and we put that out to the Polly Klaas Foundation…
21:40
TG: Sheriff Bowerman, I apologize. I apologize. My computer is going to cut me off.
21:45
SB: No problem.
21:45
TG: Thank you so much and uh now that you have my number, don’t hesitate to call if you have anything we can do for you, and you have cleared up a lot and it’s going to make a big difference. Take care, Sheriff Bowerman, and thank you so much!
21:55
SB: You, too!
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/10/sheriff-fbi-unable-to-analyze-some-evidence-in-deorr-kunz-case/
SHERIFF: FBI UNABLE TO ANALYZE SOME EVIDENCE IN DEORR KUNZ CASE
LOCAL 0 Updated at 5:00 am, October 17th, 2015 By: Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com
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SALMON – The Lemhi County sheriff says the FBI is unable to analyze some evidence in the case of a missing Idaho Falls toddler.
DeOrr Kunz Jr. disappeared July 10 while on a camping trip with his family at Timber Creek Campground in Leadore. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office has been investigating the case since the beginning and, in August, Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told EastIdahoNews.com that polygraph test results and other evidence were turned over the FBI.
“The FBI informed us that they could not analyze some evidence that we gave them,” Bowerman wrote in an email to EastIdahoNews.com Friday. “I’m not sure what that’s about, and they still haven’t provided me any behavioral analysis.”
Bowerman says the search for the 2-year-old continues and his department plans to use the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and the Polly Klaas Foundation to help with the investigation.
Nearly a dozen billboards and digital readers featuring DeOrr have gone up across Idaho this week, and his family says they continue to share and post flyers featuring DeOrr’s image.
Meanwhile, a private investigator working with DeOrr’s parents, Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr., tells EastIdahoNews.com he has severed ties with the family over “disagreements.”
Bowerman says those on the camping trip — DeOrr’s parents, great-grandfather Robert Walton and family friend Isaac Reinwand — have been cooperative from the beginning.
Next week, Bowerman says, he will be traveling to Idaho Falls to meet with Bonneville County detectives to determine the next steps to take in the case.
CLICK HERE FOR COMPLETE COVERAGE OF THE DEORR KUNZ JR. CASE
Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com
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Sheriff Bowerman, in his recent media engagements, still makes no mention of the six o' clock sighting of the gentleman with the filthy bawling child in the problem black truck. He appears to be going along with the parents claim that this was the Friday morning visit to the store - he mentions only one visit - however, there is no positive sighting of little DeOrr in the truck or in the store on Friday morning. How, then, can this be the six o clock store sighting of DeOrr ('it was me, but earlier') with a filthy bawling child, seen by a store clerk - the sighting which Jessica herself wanted discounted as rumour, whilst DeOrr claims it WAS him? If he had not been there with a filthy, bawling little DeOrr, would he have not said, quite simply, 'It wasn't me?' The time would not be the deciding factor in his denial, but whether or not he had a filthy, bawling child in the truck. This is where he should have said it wasn't him, his son was NOT filthy and bawling in the truck - this he does not deny, he merely questions the time, whereas he should have been absolutely positive it could not have been him, because DeOrr was not with him in that distressed condition. What parent would not jump on that immediately, rather than the time, if it was not the case? Surely this would be the real issue, the denial, rather than merely the time? I wonder why this, which seems an important issue, and marks out one store visit from the other, is not, so far being addressed? DeOrr with filthy bawling blond boy 'matching out description of our son' (it WAS me - DeOrr at six o clock) - just the two of them mentioned - and Friday morning store visit 'as a family' where no-one, apparently recalls seeing a little boy, much less a filthy bawling child in a black truck. As a six o clock visit was not possible on Friday (DeOrr was already missing, and the parents were with search and rescue till a quarter to four that day, according to DeOrr Sr) it seems it could only have been on the Thursday, though the family claimed, albeit belatedly, that they did not arrive until 9.30pm on Thursday evening. It is curious that, so far, Sheriff Bowerman, in any interview, has not addressed the sighting which Jessica wanted discounted as rumour, despite DeOrr claiming it was him.
I have wondered if Jessica maybe made up the rumour herself in order to create the idea that there had been an abductor, who also happened to drive a black truck - that might account for her keenness for it not to be taken to have been DeOrr, and her apparent lack of concern that the guy might have taken the baby. It is odd that her main concern seems to be that people should not believe it was DeOrr - but if it was not him, why the lack of hysteria about it possibly being an abductor with her son? If there was no such sighting, if there is no lady store clerk who remembers seeing the baby in the truck, and so far there is not, well - that would be interesting. So, is the Sheriff not addressing the six o clock sighting because there was no sighting? If no sighting, how, and from whom, did Jessica hear the rumour, and why did DeOrr volunteer that it was him, whilst not denying the state the baby was said to be in?
That the Sheriff does not address the sighting, or has not so far, has got to be interesting.
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