Friday, September 25, 2015

Statement Analysis: Donald Trump

Recently, Ben Carson said that Islamic belief is inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution.  CAIR, the hamas-linked US Muslim group condemned him, demanding he withdraw from the election, while senior Islamic leadership in Europe  and the Middle East agreed with him saying that Democracy rule is "the whim of the people" and that Sharia law is unchangeable and inconsistent with Democracy.  Although Carson's words were "politically incorrect", polls show strong approval.

Next, up, Donald Trump stated that he is a Christian, while speaking to Christians.

What do you make of his statements?

We all give ourselves away when we speak.

'I love them,' (referring to Christians). 'I mean, I'm one of them, in a true sense. I'm Protestant. I'm Presbyterian.'

BORN AGAIN? Donald Trump, shown Sept. 19 in Iowa, spoke about evangelical Christians in a TV interview, saying he's 'one of them, in a true sense'

'I am a Christian ... I'm a total believer,' Trump said. 'I believe in the Bible. I believe in God'
'I've gone to communion so often, and I love going to communion,'  'I feel it makes me feel so good and so pure, which is hard for me to feel.'


Sophie said...

Peter. Please, please take a look at this case. I'm not the first to tell you that it is BEGGING for your analysis.

It is the unsolved case of the 1995 murder of 18-year-old Hae Min Lee, a Baltimore, MD schoolgirl. The state convicted her classmate of the murder on the strength of one testimony, that of another classmate, Jay Wilds. When I listen to Jay Wilds's testimony (as you can at Episode 1), I am completely taken aback by the amount of apparent deception. Although many people think he is lying, no one has analyzed his deceptive efforts in a systematic way, as you could.

This case got a lot of attention as the subject of the October, 2014 podcast "Serial" (a very professional, internationally-known podcast created by the producers of "This American Life"). It is the subject of widespread *mainstream* attention on the Internet to this day. I don't think there is any story more worth analyzing if you want to drive traffic, and the case could definitely use your skills.

Peter Hyatt said...

where is the statement?

Anonymous said...

I believe Donald Trump on this one. Why wouldn't I? He is as sly as a fox, and sharp as a tack, a mover and a shaker, but has no need to fake on religion and certainly not with as much detail as he went into on the subject. Very outspoken.

He could just as easily skim right over it, which he didn't. He doesn't need to do it to impress the republicans, which he already did when he joined up with them. Just MOO. ABB

Sophie said...

Peter -- 13:25 here:

There may well also be a full audio of Jay Wilds's testimony but haven't been able to find it through the clutter of gossip sites

Anonymous said...

It is 10:46 eastern - this is live on YT
right now: Live stream: Speaker Boehner to announce he will step down * Link:

He has not spoken yet. Media is gathering.

Sophie said...

Peter, please also see here (for Jay's testimony in the Hae Min Lee case):

and here for other testimonies and records (this site links to a number of highly relevant files)

Thank you!

Anonymous said...

^^ press conference was Cancelled
transcript of what was said, resignation
Boehner @link


Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Part 1 of 2:

Both my family and I smiled and laughed at reading aloud Donald Trump's statements here.

1. "I love them..."- The use of "them" denotes distance; apart from one's self.
2. "I love them, I mean..."- Attempting to bolster his claim of solidarity with the group he verbally distanced himself from.
3. "I love them, I mean, I'm one of them..."- Second use of distancing term occurs while attempting to show solidarity.
4. "I love them, I mean, I'm one of them, in a true sense."- Only in a sense and he he needs to convince us that it's a "true" sense. What sense would that be? So, we have 2 usages of distancing language, a need to clarify in what way he is one of "them", and only in a sense. This is a very weak and highly sensitive statement.
5. "I'm Protestant."- This is a strong statement and likely true. Concise and to the point, no additional word/unnecessary words.
6. "I'm Presbyterian."- Again, a strong "I" statement, concisely spoken, and likely true.

This is a very awkward, uncomfortable statement. He verbally, emotionally, and mentally fumbles,bumbles, and stumbles over himself. Notice the order and priority: first he attempts to establish his position; then his identity, and then his beliefs. He's well aware that he has a well-established reputation for less than Christ-like behavior on numerous occasions. He is equally well are that he needs the Republican "Christian" voting base to garner enough support to win the Republican nomination (particularly with more "Christian" competition like Mike Huckabee, Dr. Ben Carson, etc.

It's particularly humorous that he boldly declares himself "Christian", with "I'm Presbyterian. Are only Presbyterians "Christian"? By the way, which "Presbyterian" would that be- the Presbyterian Church USA, the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, or the Presbyterian Church of America? It's clear that Mr. Trump has little knowledge,insight,interaction with, or interest into "Christians", as a whole. They come in other flavors besides "Protestant" and "Presbyterian": Methodist, Mennonite, Lutheran, Baptist, and Charismatic, to name a just a few. Completion of a specific church class o classes, Communion, your tithe, monetary contributions, or your name on a Membership Roster do NOT make you a "Christian".

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Part 2 of 2

1. "I'm a Christian..."- Repetition signals a desire and need to convince.
2. "I'm a Christian...I'm a total believer."- The use of additional wording is a further attempt to persuade. By definition, a Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is God's only Son, died on the cross for the sins of every person so they wouldn't have to be be punished for their deeds, and completing His mission, was resurrection to life. A Christian: knows and freely admits he/she has the capacity and had to desire to sin, has sinned and needs a new nature; that he/she deserves punishment; and receives the mercy, grace, and new nature God offers in Jesus Christ.
3. "I believe in the Bible."- Concise, strong "I" statement, it's likely true that he "believes" in the Bible. Believing in the Bible and practicing the principles in one's daily life (personal, social, and business) are two very different things. What does he believe about the Bible? He does NOT say that he believes the Bible is the Word of God.
4. "I believe in the Bible. I believe in God."- Again, another concise, strong "I" statement, likely true. So, what does he "believe" about God? Does he have a daily, on-going personal relationship with God-that impacts, influence, and determines how he conducts himself? Or he is merely a Sunday pew-warmer, calling upon God, the Pastor, or the Church when he wants or needs something?

Juliet said...

Hmm, I think he considers himself to be a different type of Christian to the 'them' Christians to whom he is referring, probably the majority in his neck of the woods. My reason for thinking this is because I also refer to Christians who believe in a different way to me in the same way, so it can sound as if I don't consider myself also to be a Christian. I like to distance and disassociate myself from how some people believe and interpret the Bible, and how they understand God - I'm not a biblical literalist, and I don't like to be assumed to be one. I could never say 'I am a total believer' because others would take that to mean that I believed totally what they believed, and in the same way that they believed, and I don't.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Part 3

1. "I've gone to Communion so often..."- This is problematic for several reasons. Priority here tells us that Mr. Trump considers participation in Communion as sort of proof of one's Christianity. Secondly, he needs to tell us that he has gone "so often". He does not say he regularly attends church, reads/studies his Bible, or seeks God in decision making or daily living. Moreover, many non-Christians associate Communion with the Catholic rite of Confession (confessing one's sins to a Priest) and he's gone "so often". Given his brash, in-your-face persona, and his ruthless business/personal life reputation, this is not a good sign. Note he does NOT say he takes/has taken Communion, only that he has gone to Communion.
2. "I've gone to Communion so often, and I love going to Communion."- We should seek to learn both why Mr. Trump goes so often and why he "loves going".
3. "I've gone to Communion so often, and I love going to Communion. It makes me feel so good, and so pure..."- Mr. Trump words tell us that he is self-aware that he is neither "good", nor "pure". The act of going to Communion makes him "feel" so good and so pure. Authentic Christians know that Communion is not for the forgiveness of sins. Forgiveness of sins requires confessing the sin and repenting of it (turning away from sin, refusing to commit the sin again, and committing to obey God). Communion is remembering the physical and emotional punishment Jesus endured on the Cross and His separation from God, taking the sinner's place.
4. "I've gone to Communion so often, and I love going to Communion. It makes me feel so good and so pure, which is hard for me to feel."- Why is it hard for Mr. Trump to feel "good" and "pure"? How does he define "good"? "Pure"? What is it within Mr. Trump, that he disqualifies himself as "good" and "pure"?

He does in fact, need to portray himself as "Christian" because he not only needs the conservative Christian base, he needs to capture the independent Christian vote, as well as Christians who identify as Democrats...if he wants to be President. Keep in mind that he's a business tycoon first, in a takeover corporate merger world...He does nothing by half-measures.

I'm not saying Donald Trump is/is not a Christian, as I don't know his heart. Christian is defined as "Little Christ"- one who is personally committed to Jesus Christ the person, seeks to obey God and His Word, and willing to live life by His standards on an ongoing basis. Are they perfect? No, but their lives should be marked by less and less sin as they grow, personal accountability, and a willingness to confess their sins, and sincere and honest repentance evidenced by visible change in behavior/attitudes/speech).

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Juliet- Good points! Perhaps his need to clarify has to do with his awareness of the differing viewpoints of Christianity and differing "groups". Perhaps, he's seeking to align himself with the basic principles of Christianity that most can agree on at it's core-God and the Bible. Perhaps he's also seeking to reassure prospective voters of his allegiance to those basics.

I think the sensitivity lies in his knowledge of his long-standing reputation for belligerence, insensitivity to the viewpoints of others, and take no prisoners persona (all of which have served him well in the business world).

One thing is certain, he knows what he wants and is laser-focused on achieving his goals. That can be an asset or a liability depending upon the situation.

Anonymous said...

I thought he answered the question very well and much like I might have answered it myself in some of the areas he touched upon. Actually, I was a little surprised at his candor in going into as much depth as he did.

He does not need to suck up to the republican Christians; there are just as many democratic Christians, maybe more.

He was not asked to preach a sermon. He is not a preacher and never claimed to be. The fact that he didn't preach a sermon like some here seem to think he should have does not make him any less a Christian. I think I'd be a little cautious in passing judgment on his Christian faith or his walk with God. Just MOO. ABB

Turtle said...

I'm totally a turtle. I absolutely love eating lettuce, it makes me feel so good, and I enjoy the sun, like they do.

John mcgowan said...

'I love them,' (referring to Christians). 'I mean, I'm one of them, in a true sense. I'm Protestant. I'm Presbyterian.'

"in the true sense"

In "the true sense" of what? (referring to Christians) ?

Can people, "in the true sense" of religion for whom they believe in, be all encompassing. Do "Christians" believe in "allah" etc? I doubt it. If so, it is a first to me. Maybe people do, i don't know. I am Athiest.

"I mean"

Why does he feel the need to say this? It is like he feels the need to explain himself and err on the side of caution, not wanting to upset "Christians" et al.

"I'm one of them"

One of whom?

Although the words ("referring to Christian") is not a quote. The reporter / journalist may assume that he is referring to "Christians" Is he? Was he? Is there missing information here of what was actually" said? If he doesn't say it, we are not permitted to say it for him

"'I am a Christian ... I'm a total believer,' Trump said. 'I believe in the Bible. I believe in God"

This is a strong statement, and statistically true. Note the pronoun "I"

Will we see a "but"

'I've gone to communion so often, and I love going to communion,' 'I feel it makes me feel so good and so pure, which is hard for me to feel.'

Note. We see he has a need to say why, and explain, why he is "a total believer" with strong first person singular "i", again statistically strong. However, the words, "so often," "I love " and "makes me feel so good and so pure" reduces the assertion of his statement, with a need to bolster.

He is all over the place. Is this a first hand account of what he said?

His statement is one of confusion, and has elements to please, as to not upset different cultures and or beliefs. I maybe way off. It is how i read it though.

Anonymous said...

He said "I am a Christian." Pronouns dont lie.

If we can take "(snip) Muslim faith...(snip)" and ignore the context of the rest of Obama's statement to declare Obama a Muslim, we can do the same with Trump. He's as much a Christian as anyone else.

If that's not good enough, throw in the words "science" and "statistically" somewhere above.

Shannon Duane said...

For the Hae Min Lee case? Jay wilds made several inconsistent statements and I think they are all online... I also mentioned the case to you. It's clear that jay wilds knows more than he has ever let on. His story makes no sense.

Sophie said...

Shannon, Can you link to some of the statements? Sophie

Anonymous said...

trump probably does enjoy going to communion but only because he finds it enjoyable. he's just saying what he thinks this crowd wants to hear. he's probably capable of identifying as a christian in the moment that he's saying it - but it likely isn't something that he will take with him when he stops talking to that crowd.

Skeptical said...

It would be interesting if you would analyze some of the late Yogi Berra's statements. He had some wonderful ones. "It ain't over until it's over." "I didn't say everything I said." "You wouldn't have won if we'd beaten you." "The future ain't what it used to be."

He had a perfect one for politicians to use. "I wish I had an answer to that because I'm tired of answering that question." In his own way, he made sense.

Anonymous said...

He's a Christian. I think he was referring to evangelicals when he said "them". He is not an evangelical. Neither am I!

It is important to him that he is Protestant and Presbyterian and not evangelical.

It's important to me to that he is not evangelical. We see where evangelicalism led George W. Bush It's bad theology. I think one can find "The Way" and salvation through evangelicalism, but not because of its theology, in spite of.

I knew Trump was a Christian before he told us. He is gracious and appreciative.

I am an Orthodox Christian.

kimisan03 said...

Thanks for posting! I, too, have been wanting Peter to analyze the Hae Min Lee case, but we're forgetting about Adnan. Using my limited knowledge of SA, I think that Jay's numerous "untruths" and outright lies are consistent with the minimization of his role--I believe he was a co-conspirator from the very beginning.
But in all that I've heard and read from Adnan (and I've become obsessed with the case and followed it in lots of places), he has never once said, "I didn't do it." He has said, "How could you think that?," "I had no ill will toward her," etc., but no reliable denial. And then someone on reddit found this little gem from his post-conviction relief hearing:

"Well, specifically in opening statements, the prosecution, that was their theory. That at 2:36pm, I was in a Best Buy parking lot, on the phone, calling Jay Wilds. Telling him, come pick me up. You know, Í, I, I, I, killed Hae Lee. And so that was it was the exact same time. And, I guess, the well, during trial, they had a board with the cell phone records on it and they indicated 2:36 p.m. That was when a call was made. So that's how I knew that was the exact time."

Anonymous said...

Mornin' Anon Orthodox Christian. (I don't know what constitutes an orthodox Christian, but a Christian is a Christian). In my experiences, Christians don't go around claiming they are Christians if they aren't unless there is something for them to gain momentarily, then they quickly backtrack. Trump did not back peddle.

In my observations, he seemed proud of his Christian stance, not sheepish, (as I once witnessed George Bush doing; in fact, I heard GWB say in a press conference shortly into his presidency that he didn't know anything about being born again). Christians who have their heart in the right place do not deny nor do they look for excuses or rip others who seek to follow their faith. They accept those of similar experience into the faith regardless of their particular denomination without tearing them to shreds.

The truth is, unless there is money to gain by misleading others; there is nothing to gain while proclaiming to be a Christian other than backstabbing by those who deny the faith, those who are atheists, and those who are of a different denomination who point the finger at other denominations, or are of lesser beliefs who are always on the lookout to destroy those they despise for one reason or another. Always pointing, looking to judge.

Donald Trump is not a rich televangelist on the move to fleece the flock for another new and pricier jet. Donald Trump has nothing to gain by sticking by his faith other than ridicule by those looking to criticize him in any way they can. He took the bait and stood tall in his Christian beliefs, opening himself up wide open to be sneered down upon. I do not personally know The Donald, but I do have some distant experience businesswise with some of his real estate projects. He is a winner and not a man to be trifled with; always one step ahead, sharp and savvy, can easily out-maneuver, but not a con. He has no need to lie about his Christian beliefs and convictions nor was he passing around the collection plate.

As for his attending communion, feeling right and good about being there; for those who don't know, it takes the holy spirit to convict one to turn to Christ, it is not of ourselves. However, one can only be convicted if one is open to being convicted. His sip of wine at communion is the only taste of an alcoholic beverage I have ever heard of him partaking of. Communion has a special conviction to him as he is a non-drinker and always has been.

I was born and raised in the straight-laced Apostolic Pentecostal Doctrine (fundamentalist), some called us bible-thumpers and hell-fire and brimstone believers. This is true, we are, as we KNOW there is a hell waiting if we don't turn from our sins, be born again of the spirit and follow Jesus. You might say I am a Jesus Only Christian.

Today I lean more towards being a nondenominational Christian for two reasons, one because I do not believe in tearing down any other denomination as so many do; I have attended many churches of different denominations and have no quarrel with any who are seeking to find the right way; the other reason is that I am scared to join up with any bunch of man-followers when I have already read the entire bible for myself and understand it's meaning, particularly the teachings of Jesus. I find no confusion with Jesus and won't allow myself to become confused by someone else.

As I get older, I believe more and more in the bible-thumper brand of religion and the preaching of hell-fire and brimstone as I have read every one of their scriptures in the bible for myself and none were misconstrued. They are ALL, every one, right there in Bible. I admire the stand Donald Trump took and wish him well.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I forgot to sign off on my post @ 7:39. I am ABB.

LisaB said...

I work with people who knew Adnan's father, who previously worked in our division. Nobody thinks Adnan got a fair trial, and those who knew the family outside of work were certain he would be acquitted.

lynda said...

'I've gone to communion so often, and I love going to communion,' 'I feel it makes me feel so good and so pure, which is hard for me to feel.'

I'm stuck right here, it is hard for him to feel good and pure. Why is it hard for him to feel good and pure? Because he usually feels BAD and UNPURE? Is this different than BEING "bad and unpure".I'm at a loss when he states he is a Christian just as much as I would be at a loss if he stated he was any other religion/believer because of his extreme narcissism. Do not true narcissists believe there is NO ONE above them? They are themselves the beginning and end of their own universe. To subjugate their own will to the will of a "higher" being cannot be done, can it?
I fall back unto the old saying, "When someone tells you what kind of person they are, believe them. We, as a society,particularly women, seem to have a tendency to make excuses, or tell ourselves that that person is just misunderstood, he didn't mean that, "he will change," or the even more dangerous, "I" can change him. Nope. They just told you who they are...believe them. Donald "feels bad and unpure".

Anonymous said...

ABB- Trump wasn't asked to preach a sermon and neither were you. It was nice having a break from your judgemental hate. You judge and hate on Christians as much as you judge and hate on non-Christians. Don't start bringing Peter's blog down AGAIN with your hate.

As for how moral Trump is, wasn't he an adulterer with Marla Maples?? Check what's happening with his Trump University scandal too.

Anonymous said...

Lynda, ref your post @9:32, as one who tries every day and night of my life to be a Christian follower, frequently failing no matter how hard I try; I will try to answer your comments relative to Donald Trump being or not being able to feel good and pure, therefore he "usually feels bad and impure"; bear in mind that I cannot answer for another, only for myself. Yes, it IS hard for us to feel good and pure about ourselves. Very hard. Actually impossible and usually only momentarily. We seek to find comfort, peace and forgiveness; for Donald Trump it is through communion. For me, it comes sometimes through the silence of my prayers.

We know that we have the ability to step all over others; however, deep down in our soul we know when we are wrong, or might be wrong; it is the ever-present conviction of the holy spirit that sometimes we listen too and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we forget to even try. When we don't there's where we run into trouble, which is frequent. It's not like we just refused to rob a bank and stood up for Christ. The convictions of the holy spirit and our reactions are very suttle.

We are not perfect. We are frequently high achievers who have set ourselves up in positions of being constantly under fire and the judgment of others. We can have all the cockiness, arrogance, self-confidence and high self-esteem in the world; but we are never as self assured as others might think we are. That is just our lifestyle and the way we portray ourselves. But privately we are always on the lookout for what we did or said that was wrong or that someone else might construe as our being wrong; even when we aren't wrong and know we weren't, we are always thinking back. We go to sleep thinking and we wake up thinking. I'm not sure if we ever really shut down.

We defend ourselves, but we alone know how and what we think and feel in any given circumstance; when our intentions were good or when we have stepped over the line without carefully thinking a thing through before we acted. Our actions are always on our mind whether anyone else realizes it or not. I understood his point entirely. I live with it myself.

We KNOW that there is ONLY ONE who is good and pure and it is NOT ourselves. It is not easy for us to even trust anyone else. We seek to find a place where we can find momentary peace from our troublesome thoughts of ourselves and others. We are never EVER totally self-assured. It has little to do with our feeling 'bad and impure' about ourselves, although we frequently do without realizing it; it is because we KNOW how deliberately side-stepping and sometimes wrong we really are. It is NOT the sins and misgivings of others we trouble ourselves over, it is our OWN.

I hope this makes a little sense to you.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 10:29? Too chicken-shyt to identify yourself?

Where did I mention Donald Trumps' moral character? Ummmm....? And I DON'T give a hoot about his thing with Marla. Shyt happens. Even with Christians. You forget: There IS a satan on this earth, roaring about seeking whom he may destroy; MUCH bigger and more powerful than you and I will ever be. Maybe you'll be next.

But forgiveness or blame is not yours to make, or mine.

As for the Trump School of Real Estate, bla bla bla University; I know all about it, more than you ever will.

SOOOo, exactly why are you here trying to stir up shyt? And WHO did you say you are? Fare thee well. ABB

Anonymous said...

Oooops.... That was for Anon @10.49. My bad. ABB

Anonymous said...

ABB- And the hate spews on... (sung to the music of Sonny & Cher's "And the Beat Goes On")

As for who I am, I'm everyone that is sick of your myopic, hate filled rants. Stick to Statement Analysis and leave the hate mongering for blogs other than Peter's. For someone who says they respect Peter so much, you sure disrespect his site with your hate-spews, off topic rants and lack of analytical discourse using the principles. This has been the course for you here for a long time. Learn from the blowback. Think of me as a tiny messenger sent to you to reassess the anger in your heart that permeates your posts. It stains the site.

May God grant you some peace.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 12:06, IMO, you need to read the Book of Proverbs. Therein you will find the name of your leader, and the spirit of jealousy that possesses you.

Hate? Nah, I don't hate you or anyone else. You'd be surprised at how inept I would be at feeling hate for anyone. This includes you.

You pretend to try to look out for Peter's blog all the time, thinking you are brown nosing Peter, but it is YOU in fact, who slings this mud at me, not the other way around. I just hope Peter realizes it. Also, that he realizes who you are as I certainly do. You haven't fooled me from the first post.

You've posted hate and evil at me many times, in the earlier stages even using your posting name. Do you really think that I don't remember this and recognize the tenor of your posts? Well, I do. Besides this, I rarely see you post anything that is worthwhile, usually just a sentence or two using your registered fake name that is meaningless for the most part.

Have a good day. And seriously, look into the Book of Proverbs and The Psalms. You will find yourself there. You'll be glad you did. ABB

Anonymous said...

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Anonymous said...

...I love them. I'm one of them, in a true sense."

This statement itself is enough to cause inner conflict with posters who argue extensively with one's self.

ima.grandma said...

Anonymous said...
...I love them. I'm one of them, in a true sense."

This statement itself is enough to cause inner conflict with posters who argue extensively with one's self.

thanks for the first smile I've had in days...

C5H11ONO said...

'I love them,' (referring to Christians).
-- he distanced himself by addressing Christians as them. He doesn't say who "them" is, so you shouldn't assume.

'I mean, I'm one of them, in a true sense.
--he is trying to come across as if he is one of "them". He has used distancing language two times when referring to Christians. I would like to know if in his personal subjective dictionary there are different types of Christians. In a "true" sense, which means he also has a "false" sense.

I'm Protestant. I'm Presbyterian.'
-- im not a protestant or presbyterian. Are they the same? If not, then at thus stage if his life he doesnt know?

'I am a Christian

-Order is important so he is 1. protestant, 2. Presbyterian, 3. Christian. Is this the expected order? Wouldn't Christian have come first, since it encompasses all Christian religions. This statement looks as if he said it last because he identified poorly as a Christian. I don't think he has been to church in a very long time.

... I'm a total believer,' Trump said.
He reduced the commitment if the statement by adding a qualifier as the statement works well without the "totally". He's trying to convince you.

'I believe in the Bible. I believe in God'
--truthful statement.

'I've gone to communion so often,
--do protestants and presbyterians hold communion. Is this a catholic practice only? Did he go to a Catholic school growing up?
and I love going to communion,'

'I feel it makes me feel so good and so pure,
--the act of communion makes him feel good and "so" (another qualifier) pure. I think he is trying to convince people, yet his lack of knowledge with respect to communion is evident and it hasn't convinced anyone.

which is hard for me to feel.'
--it is hard for him to feel good and pure. Is he giving away his own personal feelings about himself.

my apologies for not capitalizing. Im texting today.

lynda said...

C5-- great post!

Juliet said...

C5 - Presbyterians are also 'Protestants'. Baptism and Communion are sacraments within the Presbyterian churches.

Most Catholics will identify first as Catholic rather than as Christian, for the most part they also don't care to be lumped together with all those 'Protestant' Christians.

Sus said...

C5 Good catch on Trump raised as a Catholic. I can't remember where I read it, so I can't cite it, but I believe he was raised Carholic. Protestant churches do hold communion, but it's during church services. The key, I believe, is that he says, "go to communion." as if it is available.

"I feel it makes me feel..."

I get a kick out of this phrase. Saying he feels one way means he may not feel that way always. It leaves wiggle room. "makes me feel" is passive. It is being done to him, with no investment by him.

Sus said...

I hope I'm not interfering. Here is a recent interview with Jay Wilds (part 1) in answer to the pod cast.

Sus said...

Sus said...

sandbar said...

Interesting statements, and I agree with the person who said he's clearly put some thought into this topic, to the point where I do believe he actually has stepped foot in a church.

The Donald is saying “I’m a Protestant who believes God exists and who goes to church services. Sometimes.”

I agree he is not saying he’s “born again” and sometimes, if you are an occasional in-church type of Protestant, you might not know the difference. I should think if he knew the difference and had researched, he would say something like “I’m not evangelical”, but I admit I don’t know if Evangelical is a voting bloc that identifies out loud. (If there is, maybe he’s trying to avoid excluding himself from them).

The reason why I think he may not know the difference 100% is, because there are people here who don’t 100% know the difference between a Protestant and a Catholic, let alone Trump; he's entitled to some wiggle room.

“In a true sense”, is dipping into some kind of internal lexicon he’s not letting on (how do we know that he knows what is true? clearly he thinks there are some people claiming to be Christians in a false sense/hypocrites. He probably has some current examples in mind/on the brain though, like Kim Davis or Josh Duggar.)

“I believe in the Bible” is, I think, “I believe it’s a good set of principles to live your life by.” No more, no less. He’s not admitting or denying that, or if, he lives by them; or that he thinks the Bible is 100% the infallible word of God. He *might* mean in his head, "I believe in the Bible as being an accurate representation of God-breathed text several thousands of years old", but we can't tell it from his statements.

"which is hard for me to feel", I think, is clearly a joke trying to get out in front of it (everybody else's jokes, at finding out that apparently upon stepping into church Donald Trump does not burst into flame). I also believe he may have changed from Catholic to Protestant, as maybe somewhere along the line someone convinced him that "old money" are Presbyterians and the like, and would be better for networking.

Anonymous said...

Trump is Presbyterian. See sources 187, 191, and the sections, early life and personal lufe for more sources, in the wikipedia article about Donald Trump.

According to the above statements alone as recorded by Peter Hyatt my opinion is:

Donald Trump is an inactive member of the Presbyterian church. Probably baptized as an infant and confirmed later.
Words that caufht my eye:

them- distance, not an integral part of the group, reluctant to wholly commit to group and isolate other voting demographic groups.

I mean- needs to clarify

one of them- wants some connection

true sense-actually performed/undergone typical rites of passage for membership i.e. baptism, confirmation classes, ceremony of confirmation.

Protestant- separates himself from the other 2 main branches of Christianity- Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox

Presbyterian-distinguishes which Protestant branch, affirms his parents religious heritage and maternal country of origin, Scotland, which are often Presbyterian.

total-again sees baptism, confirmation, belief in God and Bible as sufficient to be a Christian. He is joined by millions who share this rationale. Little do they realize that mere head knowledge often does not equal heart change.

Go to Comminipn often.- The word often is so subjective. Many people only go to church for weddings and funerals. By adding Christmas and Easter to that list, then one can conceivably say often. Often as used here is very vague, and can vary from one honest person to another dishonest person.

As the song says, "they will know we are Christias by our love"
Also we will know Christians by our deeds.

Anonymous said...

Signed momE to above anon. post @ 10:57

Juliet said...

Sandbar - in case you're referring to me, as I see my post was clumsily put, I do know the difference between Protestants and Catholics. :) What I should have said is 'likewise, or in the same way, most Catholics will identify first as Catholic rather than as Christian' - it's just a fact that some people are not comfortable with calling themselves Christian in case they are mistaken for a type of Christian they don't identify or want to be identified with. I'm an Anglican (Episcopalian in the US), and, in common with many Anglicans/Episcopalians, I don't appreciate being called a Protestant, whilst also recognising that's not likely to change any time soon. :)

I think you are spot in this:

'The Donald is saying “I’m a Protestant who believes God exists and who goes to church services. Sometimes"'

A man after my own heart, in that, at least. :)

Anonymous said...

Communion is sensitive. He goes SO often.

He FEELS three times in the last sentence.

He partakes when he shouldn't. He knows it, too.

Anonymous said...

I think it is a miracle that he goes to church at all. Here is a man who fidgets, paces, stays on the move and barely can sit still; is always on the go and thinks for himself without advice from others unless it is sought out by him when the need arises. ABB

Anonymous said...

Following are some of the various denominations (most) that I have attended who practice communion. Some of you seem to think that only a certain few have the edge on communion; they don't:

Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jews for Jesus (Messianic Jews, fundamental followers of Jesus);

The Church of God, Assemblies of God, Apostolic Pentecostal (Pentecostals do not serve wine at communion, they substitute with grape juice, they also occasionally practice 'foot washing' as was performed by Jesus when he established the practice of communion in remembrance of him and washed the feet of his disciples). These three denominations believe in speaking in unknown tongues as evidence of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) and of being born again.

They are known as charismatics, NOT evangelicals, all but the Pentecostals who have separated themselves. There is more than one type of Pentecostal denomination. The Pentecostals believe in baptism by emersion (not sprinkling)in the Name of Jesus. Most other denominations that I am familiar with baptize in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; which I suppose they do not realize IS the Name of Jesus. (Example: Let's say you have a husband and his name is Leroy. Leroy is somebodies son, somebodies father, somebodies friend. You do not call him husband, or son, or father, or friend. You call him by his name which is Leroy. The same applies to the baptism in The Name of Jesus. The man has a name).

I do not know anything about the snake handlers or those that are called 'holy rollers'. I do know that it is a misnomer and is not true that some Pentecostals are called holy rollers. They do NOT roll around on the floor.

The definition "evangelical" was established many years ago to describe those traveling evangelists who went from city to city and set up tent revivals and visiting-preacher revivals in other churches or in a larger rented facility. Sometimes they were pastors of their own churches and sometimes they had no church home of their own. Example; Rev. Billy Graham was once known as an evangelical. Some ministries today preach on street corners and in parks and are known as evangelicals; some have churches and some don't. Many are non-denominational.

Televangelists are those preachers on television, most who have a large following; some wealthy and some not so wealthy. Some have a home church ministry -and some have no church, their entire ministry is performed on their television programs.

For those who don't know; there is a large following of Catholics who also believe in speaking in unknown tongues as evidence of being born again and are known as Charismatic Christian Catholics. They are not cloistered or hiding; for anyone who may be interested, you can find them early on any Sunday morning by flipping the remote on your telly, and frequently during week days as well. ABB

Anonymous said...

If it were up to ABB, The Donald would be on Ridalyn (sp?), watching poor white trash reality shows day in and day out; plagiarizing Hal Lindsay as many times as a hokey meter will allow and,....manufacturing license plates, keys, and false realities.

Anonymous said...

Let me set you straight, Anon @ 1:00. Your post makes no sense whatsoever. If you had read my preceding posts you would already know that I have respect for Donald Trump's intelligence and business acumen; also I do not question his Christian stance since he has openly displayed it when he didn't have too, he could have cleverly dodged right around it had he chosen too. He didn't. The man is SHARP. He doesn't have to plagiarize anyone. He stands alone as an astute thinker and doer all within his own right.

I don't give a hoot how often he attends communion or any other church service or why he went there in the first place, or what denomination he attends. MY BOOK tells me that "God's Word is sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing the heart and soul, and does not return to Him void." THIS includes Donald Trump hearing The Word. He SAID he is a "true believer" and that is good enough for me and not my business to judge.

I was sorry but not surprised when Trump tossed his hat into the ring with the republicans as I am not a republican and said I would never vote republican again after I foolishly voted for Ronald Regan who destroyed our dependent children's educational social security benefits; however, since he did, I guess I'll have to eat my words, as at this point I certainly DO intend to support and vote for Trump over Hillary Clinton.

Peter has proved Hillary to be a liar and we all already know that Obama did not perform to bring this country back together over our seriously downward spiral into even worse interracial problems like many of us erroneously thought he would do. He in fact, seems to have made it worse. Maybe Trump can bring us into a new day that we haven't seen since long before alcoholic Bush destroyed our economy, which he DID do. I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

Post at 2:41 by ABB.

Anonymous said...

"In a (real) sense" is not in every sense. In one way he is, and in another he is not.

Anonymous said...

Anon @1:48; I could be wrong, but this is the way I saw it: What Trump was saying "in a real sense", without going into detail, was that his belief in God is real. Of the Christian faith; this would mean that he believes in and accepts the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

Also, in his comment, I am a "total believer", he is saying (without putting it into words), that not everyone who claims to be a believer is a total believer but he IS.

He actually said quite a lot in a very short statement. Just my thoughts. ABB

Anonymous said...

You're wrong.

Anonymous said...

He believes in the Trinity - yet he does not have a personal relationship with God. He's scared.

Anonymous said...

Anon @11:40. Who are you to say that I'm wrong? Maybe I am; but can you read the heart of man? Don't think so. Neither can I but I DO give him the benefit of the doubt just based on his profession of faith and belief, even if he should never set foot inside another church again.

I am not a God making judgments concerning the soul of anyone else, neither are you. You have no idea in what ways God may be dealing with Donald Trump, or with Trumps relationship with God. THIS is between him and God; not YOU, me, him & God.

Until I see or know (for a fact) of him doing or saying otherwise concerning his faith, like denying the faith; this will remain my thoughts in the matter. ABB

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 5:03; how do YOU know he doesn't have a personal relationship with God? You don't. You cannot read the mans mind or his heart anymore than I can or would even try too. As to him being scared, who isn't, who has yet to go face God with our deeds. I find it hard to believe that anyone would say they have no fear of death.

Many people are confused about the Trinity. MANY. Sometimes I wonder about it myself. As I understand it, most trinity believers believe there are "three" when there is only one. IMO, there are not three separate persons to the godhead. The is ONE God, ONE Salvation, ONE Savior, ONE redeemer of us all. His name is Jesus. It is HE who will be standing up for us in the judgment. This is why I am baptized "In the Name of Jesus." This earth is his footstool, it was HE who bled and died for us. There is not another.

Yet I DO understand the scripture in Matthew where He says, "go ye therefore baptizing them in the Name of the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit." I understand this well. If you look at it this way; he is telling them to baptize in The name of Jesus, since HE IS the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit IN ONE. They just aren't seeing it, IMO.

But I DO believe that if there is one thing Jesus DOES understand, it is our confusion, and I believe that if I am wrong he will understand and forgive me. It is our OWN soul we should be worrying about, and OUR judgment yet to face, and not someone elses other than to pray for them. ABB