Tuesday, January 26, 2016

DeOrr Parents Named Suspects


This photo, provided by the Lemhi County Sheriff, show 2-year-old Deorr Kunz who disappeared from an Idaho campsite in July.
The parents of a 2-year-old Idaho boy who disappeared in July have been named suspects in the case, authorities said Monday.

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman said Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr. have been "less than truthful" in the disappearance of their son, who was last seen at a campsite near the Timber Creek Reservoir in Leodore where he was staying with his parents, great-grandfather and another adult.

Bowerman said that he believes the parents know the location of DeOrr Kunz Jr., of Idaho Falls, and whether he's dead or alive.

He said the couple has not been arrested and no warrants have been issued. Bowermasn said an arrest isn't imminent because the situation could change if DeOrr Kunz Jr. is found.

Bowerman and his deputies have scoured the rugged terrain surrounding the remote Idaho campsite for the boy -- using sonar imaging equipment to probe a nearby reservoir and searching a wolf den for any trace of the child.

At 2:30 p.m. on July 10, the child's 25-year-old mother called 911 from the campsite to report her son missing. She and the boy's father said they left their son with his great-grandfather while they went off to explore. The great-grandfather believed the boy was with his parents, according to police.
What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities.
The family's campsite sat approximately 40 yards from a fast-moving creek -- four to six feet in width and about a foot deep -- that spills into the Timber Creek Reservoir, a half mile from where the toddler was last seen.
The boy's parents have said they believe their child was abducted.
Bowerman, however, told FoxNews.com in July that he's not convinced of an abduction, noting that no other campers were seen or heard in the area at the time of the disappearance.
He also described the terrain as "steep and rugged" and said vehicles can reach the site but "the road is extremely rough."
"We don't have any evidence that somebody kidnapped this child," Bowerman said.

80 comments:

John mcgowan said...

I posted this on another thread (Blog test) given that has been taken down, i will re post here.

I've highlighted a few red flags among many.

Note the past tense. (passage of time and if LE had alluded to Deorrs death earlier in the case my have had an influence on his language.
Note possible embedded knowledge.
Note distancing language towards DeOrr Jnr. Yet, he can say "my Son" although it is not a complete social introduction he takes ownership. He then mentions "Jessica's name too, he does, however, drop the possessive pronoun.
Deorr is reduced to the article "the" and the distant "that"
These are just the tip of the ice burg. A more detailed analysis will yield a lot more

The elder DeOrr Kunz, who shares a name with his son and grandson, spoke with EastIdahoNews.com reporter Nate Eaton on the phone hours after Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman announced the major development in the case.

Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com reporter: Mr. Kunz, what was your reaction when you heard the news this morning?

Elder DeOrr Kunz: I think you can tell by my reaction right now what my reaction was. It was completely off the wall we did not expect this. We were not told anything about it. We knew nothing about this until we saw it on your news. Nothing. And I’mvery upset about the fact that they have released something which is going to turn people against my family completely. They have no right to do this. They have no right.

Eaton: It sounds like the sheriff is pretty confident that Jessica and DeOrr were involved, but you don’t believe that’s the case.

Kunz: They have no evidence. They have not shown me one bit of evidence to support anything. Nothing. And until they give me something besides words as evidence, I want them to shut up.

Eaton: Why do you think they are pointing the finger at your son and his girlfriend

Kunz:Because, first off, the parents are the first ones they always point fingers at on cases like this. I think they are just tired of this case. They have nowhere to go with it and they want to close it.

They want to put my son and Jessica in prison for something they have not done. That little boy loved Jessica and my son with all his heart and they loved him. They’ve never done any physical abuse to him. They’re coming up with things that are not right and I feel they’re not going to look any further than what they’re looking at right now. They’re going to try and convict my son and Jessica of this.

Cont..

John mcgowan said...

Cont..

Eaton: It sounds like you’re saying your son and Jessica didn’t have anything to do with this.

Kunz: I don’t believe it. I know it. I know my son. I know my son. He is not a monster. He could not have done any harm to that boy even if it was an accident. Hypothetically, if an accident would have happened up there and the boy was injured very badly, the thought would have never entered his mind to dig a hole, put the boy in it, and walk away. That is totally asinine. He would have thrown that boy in a truck and gone down for help.

The only one, on purpose, that could have done it is the relative and his friend. And they have totally not looked at them at all, in my opinion. I know they haven’t – not like they have these two kids.

Eaton: Anything else you want the public to know?

Kunz: Please don’t judge things by what they’re saying right now. Let law enforcement come up with the evidence, which they have none, and that’s why they can’t come up with any. They’re just wanting to bury this. Please give these two kids air and just please don’t condemn these two kids by what you guys have said today. Don’t condemn them.

Possible leakage or embedded knowledge.

Words done not come from a vacuum.

"physical abuse"
"monster"
"it was an accident"
"injured very badly"
"if an accident would have happened"
"injured very badly"
"to dig a hole, put the boy in it, and walk away"
"They’re just wanting to bury this"


Add in the extreme distancing language.

"That boy"
"the boy"

and that he never calls DeOrr by name or uses "my grandson" taking ownership, is something i haven't seen since Chief William McCollum's Shooting of Margaret McCollum.

C5H11ONO said...

Unable to post comments from desktop. It all started when you posted "Terri Horman's Interview Video", which only showed a video of Desiree being interviewed. No comments are on that post because no one was able to comment. Able to click on comments from iPhone, but not a computer.

Hey Jude said...

Thanks, John - worrying. It also struck me that the image he conjured of DeOrr Sr 'throwing' a very badly injured DeOrr into a truck is not the best he could have come up with, as alternatives go.

Nanaof4 said...

Thanks, John. I tried to post that transcript, but couldn't due to whatever was going on with the site.

Grandpa DeOrr should have stayed quiet, but I'm glad he didn't.

I still feel there is something to the statement Daddy DeOrr said in that first interview. When talking about the search efforts, he said no rock has been left unturned "and still hasn't".

That made me believe that little DeOrr is buried under a rock that still hasn't been overturned. JMO

John mcgowan said...

Hey Jude said...

Thanks, John -

"worrying. It also struck me that the image he conjured of DeOrr Sr 'throwing' a very badly injured DeOrr into a truck is not the best he could have come up with, as alternatives go."

"The Truck"

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/deorre-kunz-unintended-death.html



marci said...

Same here

John mcgowan said...

When i enter this site (Home page) a shield appears in the top corner of the search the bar. It reads " This page is trying to load scripts from unauthenticated sources. I don't know if this is having any burden on us not being able to access the blog directly?.

Apple said...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=577329765750101&id=474353519381060&fs=5&refid=52&__tn__=%2As

-----/
Iassac is talking. I'm anxious to hear his new interview.

ima.grandma said...

Isaac breaks his silence

https://m.facebook.com/EastIdahoNews/

ima.grandma said...

Sorry Apple, your post didn't show up for me.

I had a feeling this was coming.

I also have a feeling Jessica will roll and take the deal. l believe she's already been talking. Her complicitity will surprise most.

mom2many said...

John,
It's not a script error. When the scripts are shut off, it still occurs. There is a missing HTML tag that should be defining the main column from the side bar. Without it, the side bar is loading within the main column. Something on the page is coded through CSS to be moved out of natural position and rise to the top of the layers stacks. Since the tag is missing, it is not being confined to the space it should, so it is landing on top of all the stacks. It doesn't have a background color, so it is transparent, but it is blocking the ability to click on links that lay under them. You can see the links, but you cannot access them. Since smaller mobile devices are probably set up to already load the page in a single column, they are not experiencing the problem. Everything is still in its proper position.

I have tried to dig through the code to find where the errant tag is, but because there is so many javaScript ads and this is a machine coded rather than hand coded template, it is harder to read the code and follow the opening and closing tags. It would be easier to view the plain HTML without being rendered. It would take longer than I have free time for to pursue this. ;)

Peter Hyatt said...

I will have a post up later regarding this announcement and what it means for the investigation, and continue to seek to learn what has gone wrong with the access to the blog.

Peter

Dana said...

I can access this page (Web version) on my phone and click links. However, on my laptop I can view but cannot click links.

ima.grandma said...

mom2many
I'm super impressed! You explained that perfectly. I could tell it was something in the code. Thank you!
With my addiction to this blog in overdrive I was trying anyway I could to get in. Once I finally did I couldn't get back. Until I played with the timing of clicking into comments. I got lucky and am not logging out of this thread.

Again, mom2many, thank you for sharing your expertise.

John mcgowan said...

mom2many

Thank you :)

mom2many said...

Cross-posted from the Blackburn post --

For Firefox users who are struggling to access newer articles until Peter can get the front page fixed, here is the link to the RSS feed: http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default?alt=rss. When you open that link, it will give you the option to save as a live bookmark. If you save it, it will search for new articles at regular intervals. You can also click the direct links to the articles from that page. There is also an RSS for the comments: Comments Feed.

If you're not a Firefox user, you can search for a free RSS reader and subscribe to the link through that. Here's a list you can try: https://zapier.com/blog/best-rss-feed-reader-apps/. Chrome no longer interprets the RSS. I have not tried in IE, Edge, or Safari.

mom2many said...

Ah, my copy and paste stripped the link tags.

Article Feed
Comments Feed
Article with list of RSS readers

mom2many said...

One more method of navigation (and then I'll shut-up ;) ), if you are on a single article page, at the end there are text links to go to newer (if there are any) and older posts. If you are on the comment template, go to the top of the page and click the article title (this one is
"DeOrr Parents Named Suspects") to return to the single article page.

ima.grandma said...

Okay, I couldn't find the charger before the gkids left this morning so I let it run out. Once I finally found it (those girls...) I couldn't get back in. FRUSTRATION! Settle down pam

I googled by criteria of the last 24 hours:
statement analysis deorr

Cllick on the one that says test post. - not the one that has the story -

It brings you to the page with the header gone (of course as it no longer exists)
But the links are back on the right side and then click on the deorr story (or any other) and it takes you right into the comments.

Where there's a will ~ there's a way...

Jen Ow said...

I thought I was having trouble because my phone has been acting up for about a week, it keeps freezing and it was trying to download a system update that it has shown as pending for days. We've been snowed in, so I haven't gotten to take my phone anywhere to be looked at. At least hopefully the problems navigating this site weren't part of the issue.

As far as Deorr's case goes, I had read another article that said that the private investigators the family hired had come to a conclusion that they were tuning over to investigators, and now we have this announcement today. I wonder if information that their own PI uncovered has sealed their fate?

I'm back to wondering if Deorr Jr. was ever actually at the campsite alive. The entire trip seems so illogical. The grandfather in need of elder care, and the granddaughter tasked with his care, (and that of a toddler), decide to travel a significant way with her family, and a virtual stranger, into rough and inconvenient terrain, while the family was also experiencing financial issues, and while she was having 'female issues', and the list goes on...

It seems like the least likely thing anyone would do, (unless they needed to go somewhere out of the norm to stage a disappearance).

Also, them jumping on the supposed store sighting that the Sherriff had discounted, and claiming it was Deorr Sr, with Deorr Jr. It didn't make sense in their timeline, and they may have just wanted to claim it to make it seem as if Deorr Jr was spotted in the area, alive.

Of course, I could re-read and change my mind again, but bottom line I have felt from the beginning that the parents were not being truthful, and this was no simple case of, 'we both thought the other person was watching him, and he vanished'.

Anonymous said...

He used the word "loved" in the past tense twice... and "dig a hole" ... ??? Sounds like the grandfather has more knowledge that he is aware of.

On a side note - I can click on the articles via Peter's Facebook page and they work fine. However, if I just go to statementanalysis.blogspot.com, then everything is frozen. But, if I go through an article, I can click anywhere and post comments.

-KC

ima.grandma said...

I have so many thoughts about this case. It's become my hobby of late since I have to rest so much now. I'm a lurker in a few local groups.

Just to throw a thought out. Jessica has shared a few Shaken Baby Syndrome pages recently. She reactivated her Facebook on Monday after the announcement came out. Deorr is no longer her friend.

She actually shared the link of Isaac speaking on her page but might have deleted it as I can't see it anymore.

ima.grandma said...

I forgot to say Sheriff Bowerman gave a radio interview yesterday. He asked for those who (my words, I'll need to search for the link for exact verbiage) witnessed interactions within the family dynamics (DK SR, JM & DK JR) to come forward.

John mcgowan said...

To be expected i guess.

The bus is waiting. Who will throw whom under first?


Father of missing Deorr Kunz Jr. hires attorney

http://www.localnews8.com/news/farther-of-missing-deorr-jr-hires-attorney/37637550



John mcgowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John mcgowan said...

ima.grandma

Hi

Is this it?

Lemhi Co. Sheriff: DeOrr Kunz's parents named suspects in his disappearance

Snipped:

"We're asking the public at this time to come forward with any information that they might have concerning the parents and their interaction with their son DeOrr that they might have witnessed," he said.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crime/2016/01/25/lemhi-co-sheriff-deorr-kunz-parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/

ima.grandma said...

Yes John. Thank you.

John mcgowan said...

RE: Isaac breaks his silence

This is where it will be posted first.

East Idaho News.com We're working on the final edit right now. We will get it up ASAP - definitely by noon MST.
Like · Reply · 98 · 5 hrs

https://www.facebook.com/EastIdahoNews

John mcgowan said...

ISAAC REINWAND: I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DEORR’S DISAPPEARANCE

IDAHO FALLS — Isaac Reinwand, the friend camping with DeOrr Kunz Jr. and his family the day the then two-year-old boy disappeared is speaking out for the first time.

Reinwand has been called a “person of interest” in the case and hasn’t spoken publicly about what happened the day DeOrr vanished during a camping trip in Leadore.

Reinwand agreed to an interview the day Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman announced DeOrr’s parents, Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr., are now considered suspects in the case.

He sat down with EastIdahoNews.com reporter Nate Eaton and producer Stephan Rockefeller for this exclusive interview.

Watch the entire unedited conversation in the video player above.

NATE EATON, EastIdahoNews.com Reporter: What have the last six-seven months been like for you?

ISAAC REINWAND: Really boring. Kind of quiet. Not a whole lot to do in Idaho Falls.

EATON: What have your thoughts been over the past today and yesterday when the sheriff released the new information?

REINWAND: At first, I was kind of sketchy about talking to anybody, but then the way social media has been I thought if I talk to the police and everything maybe everything will cool down a little bit (and) maybe they’ll get closer to solving this case.

EATON: Were you surprised the parents were named as suspects?

REINWAND: Yeah actually I kind of was a little bit.

EATON: Why is that?

REINWAND: Because of all the theories and everything that’s been going around it doesn’t feel like or seem like anybody knows what going on.

EATON: A lot of people thought that you were involved.

REINWAND: Yeah that I am aware of.

EATON: What would you say to those people that think you somehow had something to do with his disappearance?

REINWAND: A lot of people they don’t know me. The unknown is scary so what they don’t know, people are afraid of. I would just say because a person looks someway you shouldn’t judge them just because of how they look.

EATON: What do you remember what happened up there?

REINWAND: I don’t want to comment on that.

EATON: Do you remember the last time you saw little DeOrr?

REINWAND: No comment.

EATON: But he was up there?

REINWAND: Yes, he was.

EATON: He was up there, you saw him, you know he was there.

REINWAND: Yes.

EATON: After he went missing what was it like up there? I’m sure all the search and rescue crews showed up to look for him and then the volunteers showed up. Did you think he’d be found quickly and you’d be able to head on home?

REINWAND: That’s what I figured, that he’d be found.

EATON: When he wasn’t and days turned into weeks, into months what went through your mind?

REINWAND: I thought maybe he was abducted . I didn’t really know what to think.

EATON: But you had nothing to do with it?

REINWAND: Exactly.

EATON: Do you know anything about Robert Walton, the grandfather?

REINWAND: All I can say about Robert Walton is he’s always been a good friend to me. We’ve gone fishing on many occasions and camping.

EATON: You guys met before all this took place?

REINWAND: That’s correct.

EATON: Are you still friends today?

REINWAND: I haven’t heard from Walton all winter long.

EATON: Have you heard how his health is doing?

REINWAND: I heard he’s on oxygen.

EATON: How has this experience changed your life? Has it?

REINWAND: A little. I try to be a little more skeptical about what’s going on around me in the public. =People can change in the blink of an eye and you don’t even realize before it’s too late.

Cont..

John mcgowan said...

Cont..

EATON: Did you lose any friends over this?

REINWAND: I’m sure I have, but right at this point I’m not sure who. That’s something I’m gonna have to figure out down the road.

EATON: Do you have any idea where Deorr could be?

REINWAND: I do not.

EATON: I guess you’re hoping he’s found?

REINWAND: Yes I am.

EATON: A lot of people have these theories that you had something to do with it, that you’re the man behind this.

REINWAND: I generally try to be nice to everybody. Try to be a good guy and help people out as much as I possibly can. If somebody’s in a bind and they need a place to stay for a day or for a couple of days I try helping people out with that too. I fix bicycles on the side and I give them away. I generally try to be a good person to everybody.

EATON: We’re hearing from you for the first time. Is there a reason you wanted to be quiet?

REINWAND:It was mostly just because of how the social media was reacting and my attorney said it might be better not to say anything until they know exactly what’s going on with the case.

EATON: Any idea where it goes from here?

REINWAND: I’m gathering they will be able to solve this case within the next week or the next month and we can all put this behind us and move on.

EATON: Are Jessica (Mitchell) and DeOrr (Kunz Sr.) your friends? Did you know them before all this?

REINWAND: No I did not.

EATON: So you really only spent a couple of hours with them once you got up there?

REINWAND: More like a couple of days.

STEPHAN ROCKEFELLER, EastIdahoNews.com Producer: Where were you when you first heard someone was missing? What were you doing and what was going through your mind?

EATON: Were you fishing? Were you downstream when you heard?

REINWAND: I’m not supposed to disclose any information. I’ve been asked not to.

EATON:I guess that will all come out in court?

REINWAND:Exactly.

EATON:How has it been knowing in your mind what you know, what police have told you, and not being able to tell anyone. Have you kind of been saying why is everyone picking on me?

REINWAND: I felt that way, and I thought it’s just because the way the media sees it and everything it looks like I haven’t been cooperating with the police and they don’t know what’s going on.

EATON:But that’s not true, you’re saying?

REINWAND: Right.

EATON:If Deorr and Jessica were arrested today, what would you say?

REINWAND: I’d say I’d really be surprised because I wouldn’t think somebody like those two would do something like that.

EATON:So all along you thought they didn’t really have anything to do with it either?

REINWAND:Right. I thought maybe he got abducted or a wolf or somebody might have drug him off. That’s what my opinion is.

ROCKEFELLER Did they ask you to have a story? Like did DeOrr and Jessica coach you?

REINWAND: No they did not.

EATON: So they just came back and said he’s missing, search and rescue shows up and you’re doing your thing?

REINWAND: No response.

EATON: Did we miss anything? Anything you want to say?

REINWAND:No there’s nothing else that I would like to say. I’m good.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/

Hey Jude said...

Thanks for the link back to that analysis, John - I think it will turn out to be spot-on.

--

I hope (for his own sake) Nate Easton has done a good job with this latest, though I almost don't care - just so amazed he has got Isaac there talking. I hope he asked him about the rumour that he and grandpa went fishing, and that he had apparently threatened to shoot grandpa. Also if he was at the Timber Creek Campground when DeOrr disappeared, or if he, grandpa and Trina only arrived after DeOrr disappeared - I'm curious as if to Isaac even saw little DeOrr.

John mcgowan said...

VT

Unedited:

7min :29 sec

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/

Anonymous said...

No reliable denial that I saw.

-KC

Hey Jude said...

Two opportunities, no reliable denial. The transcript is a tidied up version of what was said - a lot of 'you knows' have been omitted.

John mcgowan said...

The interviewer does a terrible job.


Snipped:

EATON: "What would you say to those people that think you somehow had something to do with his disappearance?"

Opportunity #1

I was expecting and RD here. But we get this.

REINWAND: "A lot of people they don’t know me. The unknown is scary so what they don’t know, people are afraid of. I would just say because a person looks someway you shouldn’t judge them just because of how they look."


EATON: "A lot of people have these theories that you had something to do with it, that you’re the man behind this".

Opportunity #2

To issue an RD

REINWAND: "I generally try to be nice to everybody. Try to be a good guy and help people out as much as I possibly can. If somebody’s in a bind and they need a place to stay for a day or for a couple of days I try helping people out with that too. I fix bicycles on the side and I give them away. I generally try to be a good person to everybody."


EATON: "Did we miss anything? Anything you want to say?"

Opportunity #3

Again no RD

REINWAND: "No there’s nothing else that I would like to say. I’m good."

ima.grandma said...

This link is from Klein Investigations and Consulting's (KIC) first announcement made on 1/11/16. The 911 calls must hold clues. KIC site has subsequent announcements.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/937132659702652?comment_id=937151383034113&reply_comment_id=937157836366801&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D


Klein Investigations and Consulting There were three 911 calls which are public - 14:22, 14:26 and 14:28 hours on the 10th.
Like · Reply · 6 · January 11 at 4:25pm

How do these times come into play?

Nanaof4 said...

I'm not sure how to take the lack of a reliable denial, other than to say that it sounds like Isaac might be a little challenged in cognitive thinking. As complex as statement analysis is, I would imagine there are rules that govern working with developmentally challenged people. He was aware of SM accusations, but he may not understand the full extent of what could happen. I think that is why his family wanted him to get an attorney.

That being said. His interview does raise red flags, I'm just not sure how red they are based on his ability to understand. If he knows he didn't do anything, would he necessarily believe he needs to deny his involvement? I believe Peter has addressed whether a person understands they are suspected or not plays a roll in the reliable denial.

Lis said...

Am I the only one who cannot access articles from the front page? I can see them but the links are not clickable.

I got to this page by googling the title of the article and clicking the direct link from google.

Once I'm here, the commenting works.

How are you guys getting to the article pages?

Lis said...

I find this part of the interview interesting:

--------
EATON: Were you surprised the parents were named as suspects?

REINWAND: Yeah actually I kind of was a little bit.

EATON: Why is that?

REINWAND: Because of all the theories and everything that’s been going around it doesn’t feel like or seem like anybody knows what going on.
---------

"Actually" he "kind of" was surprised "a little bit"
so, not really?

"Because.... it doesn't seem like anybody knows what going on"
is he saying he's surprised because he didn't think anyone knew?

?

C5H11ONO said...

he states emphatically that he saw Little Deorr. Seeing as though there is doubt of him being even alive when he got to the campground I would have asked. "Was he alive? When you saw him?" I would have asked, did you see him unconscious as well.

ima.grandma said...

Klein twice avoids saying Deorr was ever at the campground, instead saying they believe he was on the mountain. He also avoids saying what state the new witness saw Deorr in confirming he was on the mountain. Klein believes Deorr is still on the mountain.

Lis said...

"Kunz: I don’t believe it. I know it. I know my son. I know my son. He is not a monster. He could not have done any harm to that boy even if it was an accident. Hypothetically, if an accident would have happened up there and the boy was injured very badly, the thought would have never entered his mind to dig a hole, put the boy in it, and walk away. That is totally asinine. He would have thrown that boy in a truck and gone down for help."

Where did this come from? Did someone suggest that is what happened? Or did he just pull it out of his hat?

ima.grandma said...

Lis said
"Because.... it doesn't seem like anybody knows what going on"
is he saying he's surprised because he didn't think anyone knew?

I think you're right Lis. He's also been extremely well coached by his attorney. This interview has been carefully negotiated and choreographed for awhile now.

Note: I'm afraid I'm becoming serial poster. I'm out for chores, the girls will be home soon.

John mcgowan said...

Anonymous Nanaof4 said...

"I'm not sure how to take the lack of a reliable denial, other than to say that it sounds like Isaac might be a little challenged in cognitive thinking. As complex as statement analysis is, I would imagine there are rules that govern working with developmentally challenged people."

Hi

I have at times thought about this, and maybe you are correct. I would though, at the very least, expect him to reflect his answer, using partial language of the interviewer, of any involvement. Even then, it still would be considered unreliable.

tania cadogan said...


EATON: But you had nothing to do with it?

REINWAND: Exactly.


Another opportunity for a strong reliable denial and he doesn't give it.

This is looking more like a group effort, the only one who could possibly not be physically involved is the grandfather (although he cannot be completely ruled out)
he may though have guilty knowledge of who and what happened.

He does leak a lot, a concern being his comment about physical abuse ( what about emotional or sexual?)
Language which would indicate perhaps DeOrr jr. was buried somewhere.
The thrown in the back comment is also concerning, why thrown rather that placed or laid?
Garbage and junk and non fragile stuff stuff gets thrown, children, especially injured ones do not.

Lis said...

OT
Peter, I had previously posted this on an older article because it was the only one I could get to. I'm bringing it over here, hoping you could take a look at this.

I am wondering if you would be willing to do analysis on Bill Gothard who made some statements in an article on Gawker about the upcoming lawsuit against him? http://gawker.com/lawsuit-ten-women-charge-duggar-homeschool-leader-with-1751507518

Currently 14 women are suing Bill Gothard and his institute because of sexual harrassment they claim they suffered while living/working there.
There is a summary of the allegations against him on this page http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2016/01/a-summary-of-allegations-against-bill-gothard-and-iblp.html To sum up: many of them speak of him slowly working his way from counseling with them alone at night, to sitting close to them, putting his arm around them, playing with their hair and feet and ending up with sexual molestation and in at least one case, rape.

His statements in response:

"The Washington Post was able to reach Gothard by phone on Wednesday, at which point he apparently denied the allegations saying, 'Oh no. Never never. Oh! That’s horrible. Never in my life have I touched a girl sexually. I’m shocked to even hear that... That really is not true.'"

and

"My actions of holding of hands, hugs, and touching of feet or hair with young ladies crossed the boundaries of discretion and were wrong. They demonstrated a double-standard and violated a trust. Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent."

I can see that he avoids a reliable denial in the first statement, but I am wondering if there is more beyond that, that you could bring out from these statements?

Thanks, Lis

Anonymous said...

Same here, can only access via mobile.

ima.grandma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Natalie said...

Off Topic: Is it unexpected that a parent of a missing child would state that he or she was "healing" from their child's disappearance while in the same interview stating that they believe their child is with an abductor "outside the area"?

Natalie said...

Mom, Dad and Granny who "threw the diaper away" were all involved. I called that one way back.

Natalie said...

Off Topic: Is it the expected that a parent of a missing child would believe they know who harmed their child, yet 5 yrs after the child has gone missing state that they are not going to take a "path" towards that individual to get information, rather they will take "paths" towards other individuals.

Sus said...

Isaac Reinwand is given at least four direct opportunities to deny his involvement in Little Deorr's disappearance. He does not take them.

I also find it interesting that IR has refused to speak out till the sheriff declared the parents top suspects. IR seems to feel safe in speaking out now. If this was a tactic to lull him into feeling safe, it certainly worked.

Notice how IR goes on about I GENERALLY TRY to be nice. Then he names how. But always with TRY. "Try" does not mean he does so.

I am also questioning the friendship between he and ggp (Robert Walton.) There's something in there he is holding back about ggp. "All I can say"...He later talks about how people can change quickly. And he hears ggp is now on oxygen...so he wasn't? Note IR changes from Robert Walton to only Walton when he hasn't heard from him all winter.

maudes harold said...

I have been having the same problem accessing the site on by desk top. I cannot access from the Firefox browser, but I just opened an old Explorer browser and am able to click on the links and hopefully post this.

ima.grandma said...

I am sadly disappointed in the grandmas of many missing or dead children. God is not pleased with them either. jmo

ima.grandma said...

Sus said
Note IR changes from Robert Walton to only Walton when he hasn't heard from him all winter.
Nice catch.

There has been some gamesmanship going on between Klein and Isaac's attorney. I'm not sure who's playing who but Klein is a deliberate man. I've read most of his stuff on Deorr and he's maintained consistency.

ima.grandma said...

Ok as it turns out, I am a serial poster.

Here's a fragment of the interview:

KID asked Sherriff Bowerman: Do you believe there's witness outside of the 4 adults? 
Bowerman: Yes I believe so. 

Llink to the audio of Q&As.
http://590kid.com/.../new-lemhi-sheriff-speaks-to-kid.../

John mcgowan said...


EATON: "Any idea where it goes from here?"

REINWAND: I’m gathering they will be able to solve this case within the next week or the next month and we can all put this behind us and move on."

Note he uses "we" and "us". To whom does he speak of, LE? Himself and LE? Himself and other party's? Himself and the media in general?

Or, is he alluding to many party's in a possible cover up?

Hey Jude said...

KID.com audio Interview with DeOrr Sr's attorney:

http://590kid.com/2016/01/26/deorr-kunz-sr-attorney-speaks-with-kid-in-extended-interview/

Jen Ow said...

Wow, lots of red flags in both Grandpa, and Issac's statements!

The imagery in the Grandfather's statement is disturbing. Things like the 'dig a hole', and 'throw him in..', it's such a cold and horrifying thought in reference to his missing grandson. I would think most people would find it hard to even stomach such thoughts.

Issac was given several chances to issue a reliable denial, but he failed to do so. He used one opportunity to sermonize about people's fears, and judgement of someone's looks, (completely irrelevant to the question asked, and subject at hand), and another time he introduces unrelated issues about the person he generally 'tries' to be, his hobbies, and his kindness, *(giving away bikes) and basically attempts to bolster his general character, rather than deny his involvement.

He never comes close to denying involvement at all, much less a reliable denial. Even when the interviewer says it for him, he doesn't say it for himself, he just says "Exactly". He withholds all the details of what took place on the mountain, but claims he was surprised by the announcement of the parents as suspects.

foodiefoodnerd said...

I believe they're responsible whether accidental, neglect or abuse, but the grandfather's use of son and grandson is ptobably for clarity when referring to three people named DeOrr.

He could be in denial also, who wants to think that of their own child, especially one they namef after themselves - talk about pride and hope for their future!

MzOpinion8d said...

Tania, the grandfather that gave the interview is not the grandfather that was on the trip. He is DeOrr's father. The grandfather that was on the trip was Robert Walton, who is Jessica's grandfather, so little DeOrr's great-grandfather.

Anonymous said...

It appears to be the consensus on WS that IR is being truthful in his interview, and many are berating themselves and others for ever having doubted him ( bless his cotton socks).

Unfortunately, I cannot conclude the same.

There were ample opportunities for IR to offer a reliable denial, and he failed to do so.

I noticed several bizarre responses, notably the answer to the first question about what the last 6/7months have been like for him since DeOrr went missing. As a POI in a missing child investigation, and hounded by mainstream and social media, I would not have expected him to reply " boring".



Nate Eaton's compound questions (and closed questions) make me want to punch him.

Anonymous said...

There is some speculation that JM spent a week in jail, just prior to Christmas. There is further speculation that perhaps an undercover LEO had a little chat with her during that time.

Also, it looks as though Vernal and JM have split up. Hmmmm.

I hope this site goes back to normal soon!

Lis said...

Interesting statement on this page: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/lemhi-sheriff-deorrs-parents-have-been-less-than-truthful-are-suspects-in-childs-disappearance/

The Kunz family private investigator, Philip R. Klein, released the following statement Monday afternoon:

“I have read the press statement issued by the sheriff of Lemhi County Lynn Bowerman. Our investigation has not uncovered any information that contradicts his statement.”

Anonymous said...

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/kunz-private-investigator-responds-to-reinwand-interview/


Oh my. The 17 minute window for DeOrrs disappearance has been expanded to FOUR HOURS! according to Klein.

Lis said...

I just watched that video, anonymous, it was fascinating to watch the investigators assess Reinwand's interview. I'm curious how the group operates, they had a psychologist and seems like a statement analysis expert there watching along with the lead investigator. Their reactions were spot on. Interesting to see them put the lie to his statement that police have asked him not to talk about certain things!

Anonymous said...

Hey Lis,

I think Klein got that wrong. IR didn't say LE had asked him not to talk. Just that he'd been asked not to.

REINWAND: I’m not supposed to disclose any information. I’ve been asked not to. ( he doesn't say by whom)

He also says it was his ATTORNEY who said " it might be better not to say anything"

I agree with you that it is fascinating to watch the investigators assess IR's interview.

One of the women noted that IR failed to answer a question about his involvement, by prevaricating. She's good, but not as good as the posters here.

John mcgowan said...

Philip Kleins response to Reinwand interview.

"I know for a fact that Law Enforcement is not asked him to be quiet. They've not put any restrictions on him. Nobody has put any restrictions on him, so, that's a concerning statement for me."

...................................................

Lemhi Co. Sheriff: DeOrr Kunz's parents named suspects in his disappearance

Snipped:

"We're asking the public at this time to come forward with any information that they might have concerning the parents and their interaction with their son DeOrr that they might have witnessed," he said.

When i first read this statement, my first thought was, do Kunz Snr and Jessica Mitchell have any history with the DSS. If there has been no reported interaction with DSS, it's not to say there hasn't been some for of "abuse", and second, is there also a history of DV in the family, reported or otherwise. Again, if not, this is also not to say there hasn't been DV "abuse" within the family.

Then the elder DeOrr Kunz, who shares a name with his son and grandson, spoke with EastIdahoNews.com reporter Nate Eaton on the phone, and we have this enter his language.

"They’ve never done any physical abuse to him."

As we know, words do not come from a vacuum. This is also in the negative. This the reminded me of what ima.grandma posted.

ima.grandma said...

"Just to throw a thought out. Jessica has shared a few Shaken Baby Syndrome pages recently"

Could this be what LE were alluding to when they said "We're asking the public at this time to come forward with any information that they might have concerning the parents and their interaction with their son DeOrr that they might have witnessed,"

Was DeOrr being "abused"?
Were his parents neglectful in some form or another?
Given the passing of time, now 6 months. It is highly unlikely if he was physically abused there will be any visible bruising on his body. Again, if he was, will they find skeletal fractures?
Will toxicology find any traces of narcotics, or did he ingest some form of hazardous liquid?

The statement, "They’ve never done any physical abuse to him." From the elder DeOrr Kunz (Granfather) concerns me!

Nic said...

Hi Peter, Re accessing your blog. I'm on a (new) Mac and thought maybe it was my set-up. (?) But I had no problem accessing any other site, including your old statement analysis blog site and navigating it. I finally found a way 'in' via one of the month jump links found under "Statement Analysis" that appears along with the Google search results. Actually, retracing my steps, jumping via "November" and then through the archive to today doesn't work. I had/have to go via "May" (2013!), then through 2014 in your archive menu, and finally navigate into 2016 (all the while testing my ability to access posts and comment sections along the way.) Once in 2016, I was able to access this post and the comment section.

Convoluted and nonsensical. Maybe this helps.

_______________

I was actually stopping in to see if you had any analysis on Hillary Clinton's response to there being no "classified" email on her hard disk. Yet, listening to the radio last week here in my city, I heard that indeed they had discovered very sensitive email/documentation on her hard disk, so sensitive that it fell outside the scope of typical classification levels. So I suppose, technically, she wasn't lying. ;0)

Cheers.

Nic said...

Correction, because the content had been cut and pasted (in part), security classifications didn't appear on the information so technically she could argue that there were no "classified" emails on her server.

[snip] ... He says it’s clear from some of the classified emails made public that someone on Clinton’s staff essentially “cut and pasted” content from classified cables into the messages sent to her. The classified markings are gone, but the content is classified at the highest levels — and so sensitive in nature that “it would have been obvious to Clinton.” Most likely the information was, in turn, emailed to her via NIPRNet.
[end snip]

http://nypost.com/2016/01/24/hillarys-team-copied-intel-off-top-secret-server-to-email/

Nic said...

In another recently released email, Clinton instructed Sullivan to convert a classified document into an unclassified email attachment by scanning it into an unsecured computer and sending it to her without any classified markings. “Turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure,” she ordered.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/24/hillarys-team-copied-intel-off-top-secret-server-to-email/

......

"“I’m not concerned,” Clinton told NBC’s “Meet the Press,” “because I know what the facts are. I never sent or received any material marked ‘classified.’ I cannot control what the Republicans leak and what they are contending.”

http://nypost.com/2016/01/24/hillary-not-worried-email-flap-will-hurt-candidacy-chances/

___________________

That's right up there with "I did not have sexual relations ...."

t looks like the next 10 months are going to be very interesting.

ima.grandma said...

Klein Investigations and Consulting
14 mins
Comment by Lead Investigator Philip R. Klein :

"Sadly today, Criminal Defense Attorney Allen Browning, who reports himself to be the attorney for Deorr Kunz, appeared today on the Neal Larson Radio Show in Idaho Falls, Idaho. During this interview Mr. Browning made the following statements :

1) Deorr Kunz hired a private investigation firm and paid them lots of money.

2) That Deorr Kunz, to his dismay, has not been given any information about this case.

3) That KIC Texas made a statement regarding the case without even talking to the Mr. Kunz and that is irresponsible.

To insure the record is clear we feel we must respond to Mr. Browning's comments.

1) Deorr Kunz has never hired this firm nor has he paid us any money.

2) Mr. Deorr Kunz is not our client but a witness. We have no obligation to keep him informed.

3) Any statement that we have made publicly has been advised to our client first - to which we have had extended conversations with and updates.

Once again, we urge the public and counsel, not to speak until the facts are clear as this sort of behavor only continues to fan the false flames higher. Please be responsible before making a statement to the public or in social media."

foodiefoodnerd said...

Strange that he made a point of correcting the interviewer's two hours estimate to "more like two days," which obviously puts DeOrr and Jessica up there, especially after saying he isn't supposed to give information.

But why, why, WHY?!? did the interviewer not ask if DeOrr, Jr. was up there at any point, and if so, when last seen awake and alert?

He willingly confirmed everyone else's presence; even a "no comment" to DeOrr, Jr.'s presence would be a huge clue. As would have been just about any response, to the seasoned SA vets!

Also, as to how the past six, seven months have been, with your best friend's 2-year-old grandson missing atop a frozen mountain, "boring" just blew the neddle off of the WTF?! Meter® and shattered it to pieces.
I don't even know where to go with that one.

foodiefoodnerd said...

*needle. sorry, clumsy hands, dumbphone keypad and not enough caffeine soaked in yet...

foodiefoodnerd said...

nanaof4: Excellent points about applying SA principles to cognitively challenged and other folks.

I think SA is outstanding in its ability to ferret out truth and piece together complex stories.

But one of the most common rookie mistakes seems to be fitting a case or statement to SA principles, instead of considering the principles as one processes each piece of information.

Never does not mean "No,I did not do (specific allegation)," and is not a reliable denial, but innocent people do often say they "would never" when they mean it literally, especially regarding an especially heinous crime.

People with cognitive disabilities or other challenges often use words and phrases that would be a red flag among others with normal speech.

foodiefoodnerd said...

Quoting John McGowan's quote of Philip Klein's response to Reinwand interview:

"I know for a fact that Law Enforcement is (sic) not asked him to be quiet. They've not put any restrictions on him."
~~~~

This is intentionally misleading! Law enforcement is often hamstrung by ridiculous laws that don't allow LEOs to build their cases and contain dangerous suspects without issuing them engraved warnings of all of the strategy.

An intelligent detective would make it as clear as he or she possibly could, that while law prohibits LEOs from issuing gag orders, exactly how too much information spilling out will affect building the case and capturing the suspects, and proving the case in court (evidence being thrown out; seating a reasonably uncontaminated jury, to what extent that's even possible now, etc.).

To throw out something this grossly misleading just has slime oozing all over it, regardless if he's with the good guys or bad guys.

ima.grandma said...

I agree foodie

John mcgowan said...

foodiefoodnerd said...

"People with cognitive disabilities or other challenges often use words and phrases that would be a red flag among others with normal speech.
Never does not mean "No,I did not do (specific allegation)," and is not a reliable denial, but innocent people do often say they "would never" when they mean it literally, especially regarding an especially heinous crime."



Hi


If someone says "i never done xyz" it maybe true, however. The principle we follow, is deemed unreliable.

When someone issues an RD. That is the principle we follow in S/A. It is NOT iron clad. We note it. %, when an RD is issued it is likely true, not always. If it is followed by the question. Why should i believe you? And is answered with, because i told the truth. The %age now goes up to 90% plus, if not 99%, that the person is telling the truth.

S/A principle. People will not lie twice. That is. They will not look back at their lie, and then lie about the lie.

See:

"Rule: No One Can Lie Twice"

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/rule-no-one-can-lie-twice.html

Anonymous said...

FFN,

Reinwand WAS asked if DeOrr was there. He confirmed it.


EATON: But he was up there?

REINWAND: Yes, he was.

EATON: He was up there, you saw him, you know he was there.

REINWAND: Yes.