Thursday, March 24, 2016

Missing One Year Old Baby Shaylyn

Shaylyn Ammerman (Provided Photo/Jessica Mae Stewart)

1 year old missing.  Some statements from parents.  Consider mother's statement compared to DeOrr mother and father.  These are limited statements.  Even in a single statement, the mother expressed concern, not for herself, but for what her child might be experiencing.  This was not heard from in other cases, including Baby Ayla, Lisa and above mentioned DeOrr, in spite of his parents speaking extensively in an interview.  Neither expressed any concern over DeOrr's condition or care.  

SPENCER, Ind. (WISH) — Authorities in Owen County continue to investigate the case of a missing 1-year-old. They say they won’t give up until she is located.

Owen County Sheriff Leonard Sam Hobbs says 50-60 law enforcement personnel from multiple agencies were out in teams of two across the county Thursday. Indiana State Police say that rain has slowed them down, but they continued their search.
Investigators have been searching for 14-month-old Shaylyn Ammerman since Wednesday morning. Shaylyn is described as 20 inches tall, 20 pounds, blonde hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing white zip-up pajamas with an owl design and carrying a “Winnie the Pooh” blanket.

She was in the care of her grandmother and father Tuesday in their Spencer home, according to Indiana State Police. The mother and father are not together but share custody of Shyly.

Police say the child has now been missing for more than 24 hours and they are worried.

Tamera Sue Morgan, the girl’s grandmother, told police she put Shaylyn to bed and last checked on her around midnight Tuesday in a home in the 400 block of West Jefferson. When Morgan checked the crib in the morning, she told police the child was gone.

“The first feeling was panic,” Morgan said. “‘Where is the baby, she can’t get out of her baby bed so somebody had to take her.'

Police and search and rescue crews have been looking for the girl since around 9 a.m. Wednesday.
The Owen County Sheriff said Thursday morning, they won’t stop until they find this little girl.

We’re going to cover every avenue we possibly can. Creek, river, bridge, trees, fields roads, anyplace we think she might be, we’re going to be looking for her today,” said Owen County Sheriff Leonard Sam Hobbs.

Hobbs said Thursday they will have personnel out on the White River, they’ll use K-9 units again, the DNR, FBI, among other agencies, like the Vigo County search and rescue team.

“We’re going to find her. Today. That’s our goal. We want to bring her home. We want to bring her home safe,” said Hobbs.

Morgan said she won’t stop at anything to find her granddaughter. She was putting up signs Thursday morning.

I’m going stir crazy at home. I’m not getting any information whatsoever from anybody so I’m just going out and trying to spread the word as far and as wide as possible,” Morgan said. “I am very concerned. It’s been so long since we’ve seen her. I’m just so scared to death of where she’s at, if she’s safe, if she’s being taken care of.”

Grandmother expresses concern in the moment.  

Hobbs said they will continue to search until dark, and will start again Friday if they need to.

“We need the prayers of the community to help bring this girl home and bring her home safe,” he added.

ISP says Wednesday, crews used sonar to check the White River. A cemetery near the home was searched, police say. An ISP chopper is on scene and K-9 units are combing the area for clues.

Police said several people were at the home the night Shaylyn disappeared. Officials said they have interviewed several witnesses including family of little Shyly.

They say several search warrants have been served at homes and for vehicles across Owen County.

We like to hear parents express concern for what the child is experiencing at the moment the statement is made.  This is the father's quote and then the mother.  

“Just shocked that somebody would do this to me. I have no idea why or what’s going through somebody’s mind that would do this,” said Shaylyn’s father Justin Ammerman. “I’m going crazy. I don’t know what to think.”

He considers this done to him.  He does not know what to think after telling us what he thought.  This will need further explanation.  No remark about care for child yet. 

Ammerman said he didn’t have people over Wednesday night, and he thinks someone took his daughter from her crib in the middle of the night.

“I don’t know who in their right mind would do this,” he said. “Somebody’s got a big grudge over us. I don’t know who it is, but they better confess and give my baby back.”

It would be someone not in their "right mind" that would do this. 
Also notice that 'confess' comes before 'give' in his language.  
He does not here express concern for what the child is experiencing at the moment.  Here is the mother:  

Jessica Stewart, the girl’s mother, spoke to 24-Hour News 8 Wednesday evening.
She said her daughter’s blanket and diaper bag are also missing.

Next, this mother is concerned about the baby's comfort, at this moment in time, while missing:  

“I’m hoping that whoever has her is taking care of her and will bring her back home safe,” Stewart said. “I’ve got a bad feeling since talking to the cops today and I am hoping I am wrong.”

Stewart also said she knows of no one who would want to take the child.

“I just want her home,” she said.

Here the mother is concerned for the very thing a mother should be concerned about; in the moment. Next, note the dent in denial/confidence, is explicitly caused by what was said in conversation with police. 
The word "just" is a comparative word of reduction, as to say "only"; her sole 'want' or desire is to have her home.  

If you have any information about the child, call the Spencer Police Department at 812-829-3932.

150 comments:

My Sew Imperfect Life said...

Hopefully the father/father's surrogate simply took her to scare the mother. The diaper bag being missing is a good sign I think? I hope she's OK. :-( I hope the sweet baby is found alive.
PS Peter are you going to cover Tom Fallis whose trial is now?

Anonymous said...

I'm already looking sideways at the father.

He sounds just like little Deorr's parents " who would do this to us, knowing what he means to us..?"

Also, the father refers to the baby's kidnapping as "this" (denoting closeness?) quite a few times.

I also noted "someone has a grudge OVER us" rather than, the much more commonly used, "grudge AGAINST us". I'm not sure what it means.

Anonymous said...

The father screams off the page that he was involved. "Just" and how it effects him. Scary statements. I hope it is as simple as the father and grandmother are hiding the baby rather than the baby being hurt or worse. I don't think the grandmother is truthful. She checked her at midnite. why?

Jen Ow said...

Ugh, shades of Justin DiPietro with the father! I pray this case will not turn out the same.

"Somebody's got a big grudge over us".

- Father uses the word 'grudge', which suggests an existing conflict. The sentence reads awkwardly as he fails to say 'grudge against us', and he instead uses the phrase "grudge over us".
The use of "over us" made me thing of leverage...as in, holding something 'over us'.

-May be leakage that Dad actually does know exactly why someone would do this "to me". Despite his repeated assertions that he has no idea why/who would do this, he plainly states that it is over a big grudge. He uses "somebody" to conceal the identity of the grudge holder, but to even know that a grudge exists, you would have to know who holds it.


"I don't know who it is, but they better confess and give my baby back."

In these statements, *(if they are provided in the order spoken) the last thing he references is getting the baby back. As Peter pointed out, even within the sentence about getting the baby back, a confession takes priority over her return.

Jen Ow said...

Hi Anon,

Yes! Him saying "grudge over us" jumped off the page at me! Then as I was writing, I thought maybe other people use that phrase, and I've just never heard it? Glad you also found it unexpected!

lynda said...

I was going to transcribe the telephone interview with the dad and grandma that was done the day she disappeared. It is jaw-dropping. I think I will...PETER...check back for the transcript..there is a LOT there.

Rella said...

They found her.

tania cadogan said...

(March 24, 2016)– The body of missing 1-year-old Shaylyn Ammerman was found Thursday night.

The toddler’s body was found in a remote area located near the White River, northeast of Gosport.

Kyle Parker, 22 of Spencer has been taken into custody and is currently being held in connection with this case.

An autopsy has been scheduled for tomorrow.

Various law enforcement agencies have been searching for the toddler since she was reported missing Wednesday morning. She was last seen at the home where her father and grandmother live, in the 400 block of West Jefferson Street in Spencer.

During a Thursday afternoon briefing, Indiana State Police Sgt. Curt Durnil said the massive search for the 14-month-old girl included search dogs, cadaver dogs, sonar and personnel from multiple law enforcement agencies. He also said the Federal Bureau of Investigation was involved in the case.

Shaylyn’s father, Justin Ammerman, told police his mother put the child down for bed just before midnight Tuesday and when he woke up Tuesday morning his daughter was gone.

According to Shaylyn’s mother, Jessica Stewart, the girl’s father was having a party Tuesday evening. Ammerman says that’s not true and he claimed someone entered through the front door of the house and kidnapped her.


http://cbs4indy.com/2016/03/24/mother-tells-cbs4-body-of-missing-1-year-old-girl-has-been-found/

lynda said...

I was going to transcribe the phone interview. The father sounds as if he is mentally challenged, drunk or high. The grandmother, when asked what the tv reporter could do for them to help find her responded, "Yeah, the other channel said that there was a party here and there was not."
The Kyle guy was there the whole evening drinking with the dad's brother.
Just heartbreaking...throwing the poor baby away like trash.

lynda said...

Just had a press conference and LE stated this investigation is nowhere near over. There are many POI besides this Kyle guy. Back on to transcribing because I am interested if Peter sees that the dad and/or grandma is also involved.

elf said...

I think the father and grandmother were in on it. The grandma stated in one quote that they went to bed at midnight in one article and in another stated that they went to bed around 3 (ahem). I'd appreciate the transcription.
Poor little baby :( at least she was found and can be laid to rest.

boston lady said...

I am so sad to read they found her little body. I was so hoping that it was just (I know just) the father and grandmother trying to scare the mother. This is horrible. Heartbreaking.

By the way, I'm not sure why my earlier post was posted as anonymous. But my post was Anonymous at 9:16 where I said "The father screams off the page" Boston Lady

Anonymous said...

What is with so many kids getting taken that have the letter combination "ayl" in their names??? It is seriously strange.

Hey Jude said...

Shaylyn's mother:

'Tammy has mentioned several times taking Shaylyn away from me, never letting me see her. When we came up with a week on week off arrangement, everything settled though. I was in CNA class, and was in class all day and had homework at night so I mean I was in class for about 2 months I think…and ugh he had her, and they had her a majority of the time. She held that against me and said I abandoned her. But all I was doing was trying to make a better life for her. Was easier for him to have her to get stuff done. Me and her have always butted heads. She seems to want Shaylyn as her daughter because she never had that herself, because she only had sons.'

Shalyn's mother Jessica told Heavy at 4:38 p.m. that she heard Justin “failed the lie detector also.” She went onto say:

'I don’t know, I have been having a bad feeling like I’m never going to see her again and I’ve been trying to fight that and push that away but I’m hoping she’s ok. It’s hard because they’re searching the river and dogs lost the scent at the river, 100 or 200 yards away. There is a gravel road where a car could’ve been parked. So we really don’t know I wish…I just honestly wish Justin would say what happened that night.'

Also the recording of the phone call is here:

http://heavy.com/news/2016/03/justin-shaylyn-ammerman-missing-father-mother-jessica-stewart-tamera-morgan-indiana-facebook-photos-suspect/



Hey Jude said...

Father spells baby's name as 'Shylyan' on his Facebook - no Facebook page for him is coming up in search now.

Anonymous said...

Shaylyn's body found :((

Anonymous said...

This approach was taken in the Jaidyn Leskie case too (in Australia). Famously, the boyfriend got off because they muddled the waters so much with claims about harassment and stalking.

Anonymous said...

'We are devastated': Parents of missing toddler speak out
http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/we-are-devastated-parents-of-missing-toddler-speak-out-1.2831203

Penny said...

That sweet little face. How sad, I was so disappointed to read they didn't find her alive. The mother seems like a good, normal person, it's sad that that's so atypical for these cases. Grandma's language concerned me, inserting emotion into statement throughout.

Considering that, i am wondering how mom's statement about "having a bad feeling" compares to grandma's "panic." The former didn't feel like storytelling, maybe because she was reporting her feelings at THAT MOMENT rather than "narrating" a story in which emotions are included in the "perfect spot." Thoughts?

Peter Hyatt said...

The 22 year old man that was in the house earlier has been arrested.

the mother's language was plain and now they will be looking at this 22 year old and why he was there...

Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous said...
I'm already looking sideways at the father.

He sounds just like little Deorr's parents " who would do this to us, knowing what he means to us..?"

Also, the father refers to the baby's kidnapping as "this" (denoting closeness?) quite a few times.

I also noted "someone has a grudge OVER us" rather than, the much more commonly used, "grudge AGAINST us". I'm not sure what it means.


Anonymous,

"this" is appropriate. I cannot think of anything closer to a father. "that" would have been most inappropriate.

The "grudge over us", however, is something that we consider: does the father know a reason, such as a grudge, that this was done?

Therefore, they will look at those he knows and who may have had a reason to hold a grudge. I hope she was not killed for a debt.

Peter

Jen Ow said...

Judging by the charges against the suspect in custody, it seems possible that he became involved AFTER the death of poor Shaylyn.

From the article posted by Tania:

"Records indicate Parker has never been charged with a violent crime. That could change now with this case. He's being held on two counts of obstruction of justice, a count of failure to report a dead body and a count of unlawful disposition of a dead body."

"State police said Parker was at the home the night before she disappeared. There are several more persons of interest in the case, and police said it is far from over."

Quote by LE:

"Let me be really frank here. Please don’t feel like because we’ve found a body and we’ve made an arrest that this case is anywhere near over. This case is just getting started with more interviews, with more investigative tactics with everything that we have at our disposal we will use to bring those who are responsible for this little girl’s death to justice," said ISP Sgt. Curt Durnil."

Trigger said...

Kyle Parker has a problem with drugs. It's awful that this guy could get access to Shaylyn in her home with her grandmother and father in the house.

Another "grudge" or retaliatory crime committed by someone who wanted to get the father''s attention? or grandmother's?

This crime reeks of a "drug deal" gone bad.

Jen Ow said...

Hi Trigger,

Check out the audio of Dad and Grandmother on the link posted by Hey Jude. The whole family is nuts!

The grandmother seems almost giddy to be interviewed, and as previously noted in another post, the Dad sounds stoned/slow/drunk?

They both state that the baby's crib is in the living room, and the GM talks about how their front door is always unlocked, and describes people walking in and out of their house all night! She says Kyle left at some point, AND that another female entered and exited at some point between 2am-7am, (which she knows because they left newspapers on the counter.)

She is also more concerned about another media outlet reporting that they had a party, than answering the reporters questions to help find her granddaughter. (Interview was before she was found.) Neither she, nor Dad shed a tear, or even come close to losing composure.

Jen Ow said...

I forgot to say, I think drugs are involved too Trigger, this is not a normal lifestyle, or family dynamic!

Hey Jude said...

The grandmother and father don't sound too panicked, or even a bit panicked in the phone interview. From the mother's words, which I quoted above, it wouldn't seem likely the grandmother would harm the baby. There are contradictions - earlier it was said, I think by the grandmother that the front door was open because they never lock their doors where they live, yet the father answers the interviewer that no doors or windows were open, also the baby was with him the whole time (crib in living room). They sound out of it - I'd say drugs and/or drink dulling the senses. Their responses are so far from anything one would expect - no sense of urgency, they don't even seem upset.

GeekRad said...

I can't wait to see your transcription Lynda. Thank you!

Nic said...

I'm reminded of the NYE party BJD and company had after Hailey "ran away"/was murdered.

I'm struck at all the time stamps posters say the grandmother says. Midnight, 3:00AM, between 2:00AM and 7:00AM. And the fact that she is very pointed about the fact that the front door is never locked (alibi building,) insinuating "anybody" could have come in at any time and taken her granddaughter. Yet, she knew exactly when the last time was she saw the baby alive (midnight) and specifically that a "female" (concealing identity,) was in the house between 2 and 7.



Anonymous said...

When the dad said 'grudge against us' I was thinking drug deal gone bad and dad owed someone money. That fact that they took the diaper bag and blanket makes me think that they had intentions of keeping her safe, but maybe when the story broke they panicked and killed her.

I think LE really needs to take a look at Dad and grandma. I think gram is the 'us' he refers to.

Nic said...

Reporter: How you hold’n up?

Justin Ammerman: I’m okay.


Shows no concern for missing daughter.
____________________

I noticed her missing this morning at 8:30

____________________

Last night there was a guy named, Kyle, there. But he was in my brother’s room the whole time.

Uhhh, he came he came in and went to my brother’s room. He brought some, uh, he brought some alcohol over there, but....


“there” is distancing. He makes it sound like he wasn’t even home.

Nic said...

I couldn’t tell you anything else besides that ‘cause...

Unable to say anything else for fear of consequence?

my brother went in my room, got me, I was like almost half asleep, he woke me up and he wanted me to come in there and drink with him but I told him no, so,

“went in my room” implies that that Justin wasn’t in his room when his brother went into it and "got" him.

Almost ‘half’ asleep as opposed to almost asleep. How can you be “almost HALF asleep”?

He woke me up

If you’re half asleep, then you are technically still awake, so how could you be woken up if you’re in the act of falling asleep?

Story telling. Deception indicated.

I don’t know really much about that Kyle guy.

"really much" weakens claim to not know Kyle.

"that" distancing

Deception indicated.

Nic said...

All I know is I put her to bed last night and she was in her crib and went to sleep about 10-10:30…

and at Midnight 12, one o’clock , at 2:00 o’clock AM she was there, in her bed. after that?


"and" temporal lacunae/missing information

The grandmother goes to bed/puts Shaylyn to bed at 10-10:30. Then she talks about Midnight and rhymes off activity at 12, 1 and 2.

Grandmother explains trouble with Satellite/alibi building“ we listen to music when they go to bed at night and it wasn’t working right”...“messing with the TV’s to figure it out”

We/they pronoun confusion. She is not working from experiential memory. Every hour the baby is being checked on under the guise that there was satillite problems. IMO, it's quite possible that the baby was physically abused and Shaylyn was being checked on every hour because of head trauma.


And uh, then we went to bed. And then they woke up aaand she was gone.

And - temporal lacunae/missing time and information.

Deception indicated.

Nic said...

There then there was a Kelly Rogers that stays with us and um, I guess she doesn’t know either cause she was there sometime in-between 12 Midnight and 7:30. Or sometime after 2, in-between 2 and 7:30 because, uh, she left a couple of newspapers on the bar in the kitchen.

I guess she doesn’t know either, weakens knowledge about what happened during the period Shaylyn went missing.

She changes Kelly Rogers presence in the home from between Midnight and 2, to 2 and 7:30. (Two o'clock being the last time grandmother sees Shaylyn in her baby bed.) So grandmother does not assign blame to whatever happened to Shaylyn before 2:00AM to Kelly Rogers, but she won't say for sure if Kelly Rogers has any knowledge of what happened/her involvement.

"a" Kelly Rogers (distancing)

Was - past tense

stays with us - present tense

Grandmother grammatical mix-up indicates to me that she is being deceptive.

No, we don’t have no idea.

Double negation. Two negatives make a positive. Deception indicated.

jmo based on what I am learning about Statement Analysis

Nic said...

Reporter: what can we do in the media to get the word out, what else do you want people to know.

Grandmother: ...they are reporting that there was a party in our house ... and there was no party. We did have some alcohol, um my son Adam Ammerman and Kyle was in the bedroom and there was a “leeeetle” bit of alcohol drank, but there was no “party-party. At all.


Personal dictionary - a gathering people drinking “a leeetle bit” of alcohol does not equate to a party. The level of alcohol consumed is being minimized.

John mcgowan said...

Autopsy: Body Found Identified as Missing Indiana Toddler, Death Ruled Homicide
According to Owen County Coroner Stan Frank, Shaylyn's cause of death was ruled a homicide by asphyxiation



A body found amid the days-long search for a missing Indiana toddler has been identified as 14-month-old Shaylyn Ammerman and her death has been ruled a homicide, autopsy results confirmed Friday.
According to Owen County Coroner Stan Frank, Shaylyn's cause of death was ruled a homicide by asphyxiation.


Authorities said a body was found during a search for the missing child Thursday in Spencer, Indiana. Indiana State Police told NBC Chicago the body of a baby matching Shaylyn's description was discovered in a remote area near the White River northeast of Gosport.
A 22-year-old man from Spencer was taken into custody and is being held in connection with the case, police said. No charges had been filed as of Thursday night.


Officials said the investigation into Shaylyn's case remained ongoing Friday.
"Moments like these cast a dark shadow on our commitment to protect and serve the citizens of this county," Owen County Sheriff Leonard "Sam" Hobbs wrote on Facebook Friday. "However, for every person who commits an act of evil in this world, hundreds step up and come together to fight it with good. I have witnessed this myself in the last few days. We will not be deterred in our efforts to stop crime and bring to justice anybody who preys upon an innocent person."


Shaylyn, who would have been 15 months old next week, was last seen late Tuesday, when her grandmother told police she checked on her after putting the girl to bed around 10:30 p.m.
“She was laying in her bed sound asleep and then we went to bed and we woke up and she was gone,” Tamera Morgan, Shaylyn’s grandmother, told NBC affiliate WTHR.


Indiana State Police had said they interviewed several witnesses, including the family of the infant and “persons of interest.” They had searched a number of vehicles and homes and canvassed areas in Owen County near 489 W. Jefferson St., where the girl went missing.
The toddler’s father believes his daughter was abducted from the home.


“I have no idea where, I’m thinking somebody that has a big grudge over my family,” Justin Ammerman told WTHR. “I don’t know what kind of grudge would have against my family, I mean my family is the most peaceful people in the world.”
Investigators told WTHR there were reports of a party at the house the night Shaylyn went missing, but the family has denied that claim.


Multiple law enforcement agencies were assisting in the search

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Autopsy-Body-Found-Identified-as-Missing-Indiana-Toddler-Death-Ruled-Homicide-373563041.html#ixzz43wObivLr

Nic said...

Reporter: What time did you notice Shaylyn was missing?
Grandmother: 8 o’clock this morning.
Reporter: So you got up at 8 o’clock and she just wasn’t there anymore.
Grandmother: Right, hm, she wasn’t there.

…nothing was bothered, just her. … nothing was taken, just her.


“just” is an alternative to something else. It was stated in earlier reports that her diaper bag and blanket were also taken. Blanket is a personal item used to comfort and protect from the elements (cold). IMO, whomever thought to pack along Shaylyn's blanket and diaper bag was close to her.


Reporter: How are you personally feeling right now?

Grandmother: I’m scared, I’m angry, frustrated all kinds of things.


Scared for herself. Angry, but doesn't say at whom. Frustrated, doesn't say with whom.

I’m scared to death for her. I just don’t know who has her.

Death is in close proximity of "her" (grandmother does not say Shaylyn's name).

"just don't know" minimizes her knowledge of who has her. Maybe she has questions around religion, death and God. I would want to question her to discover her thoughts and opinion on religion and what she believes happens when we die.

All my posts are based on my opinion in regards to statements made by family members and my learning and applying of statement analysis.

My Sew Imperfect Life said...

Shit. Pardon my language. I am unable to look at the father & gmom's words objectively like Peter says. If my son killed his child there is no way I'd protect him. I would have failed as a mother. He would need to face justice. I don't understand how moms & gmoms can protect the murderer of their child/grandbaby (Casey Anthony's mom, Hailey's mom, Justin Dipietro's mom, and so on.) I'm against the death penalty, but cases like this make me question my beliefs.

My Sew Imperfect Life said...

Oh, and Nic you're awesome :-)

Nic said...

You're very kind, My Sew Imperfect Life. But I have much to learn.

A number of things are rolling around in my head, but this sticks in my craw and makes me wonder if they are South Park fans:

"And uh, then we went to bed. And then they woke up aaand she was gone."

South Park episode about the deceptive stock market that crashed in 2010:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg

___________________

Grandmother and son both say that the drinking took place in Adam's bedroom. But, who drinks in the bedroom? Son refers Adam's bedroom as "there" (distancing).

The grandmother says that there was no party. However, we have music (satellite), alcohol, Justin, Adam, Kyle and Kelly (who put her newspapers on the BAR in the kitchen).

Therefore, we have activity in the bedroom, the living room (where Shaylyn slept and where nothing was "bothered" just her,) and the bar in the kitchen.

lynda said...

Finally done working..will start transcribing interview. Coroner states Shaylyn COD was asphxiation, NOT strangulation as cause of death.

Nic said...

I forgot to point out a discrepancy in timing.

Justin "noticed" Shaylyn missing at 8:30AM

Grandmother notices her missing at 8:00AM

Grandmother says Kelly was there between 2AM and 7:30AM. How would she know she was definitely gone/"left" at 7:30 if she didn't get up until 8:00AM?

Grandmother says "And uh, then we went to bed. And then THEY woke up aaand she was gone." Implying [they] made the discovery before her.

So who is they? By the sounds of it, the only people to have left the house when "we" went to bed, was Kyle, Kelly and Shaylyn.

Skeptical said...

Possibilities:
Was the father aware of the DiPetro case? Was he paying child support that he wanted to stop or was there insurance on the baby? If Kelly was promised money for the horrible act, he will probably implicate the father. Or could this have been a kidnapping gone bad. Holding the baby for ransom until a drug debt was paid or ransom money raised.

Anonymous said...

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/news/2016-03-25/Front_Page/Body_Of_Missing_Toddler_Found_Thursday_Northeast_O.html

Earlier in the day, Shaylyn’s grandmother, Tamera Morgan recalled how a typical Tuesday had turned into a tragic and terrifying Wednesday and disheartening Thursday.

Since reporting her 15-month-old granddaughter missing just before 9:00 a.m., she said her family had a difficult time doing much more than media interviews.

“From about four o’clock until about 11 o’clock (Wednesday) night we were bombarded by (news channels) 59, 6, 8, 10, and The Herald-Times, and I keep just saying the same story over, and over, because that’s all I know,” Morgan said Thursday afternoon from her mother’s apartment on Pines Drive in Spencer. A few minutes later, she received a call from cable television host and journalist, Nancy Grace.


Shaylyn Ammerman
Shaylyn Ammerman
“I’ve seen these things on Dateline where people are interviewed and stuff. I don’t even know who Nancy Grace is, but everybody else does,” Morgan told the Spencer Evening World. “Maybe we’ll find her.”

She recalls Tuesday being just another normal day, with the majority of the family going out to eat with a friend for lunch.

“We went home and put Shaylyn to bed for a nap around two or three (in the afternoon), and had a normal rest of the day. Shaylyn was playing around on the floor, as normal as she could be. A friend of my son came by, Kyle (Parker), and they had a little drink in his bedroom. No loud music or anything, they watched some movie with my husband,” Morgan said.

Morgan said Parker was a friend of her son, Adam, but did not elaborate on his relationship with the family.

“They weren’t all over the house, they were just in the bedroom. I was putting Shaylyn to sleep at that time; I put her in her crib around 8:00 or 8:30 and she finally went to sleep around 10:00 or 10:30. I stayed up and watched a little more T.V. I just made sure she was sleeping and I went to lay down, probably around 11:00,” Morgan said. “My husband woke me up coming to bed, messing with the TV, around midnight. So I went out to the living room to mess with the TV and checked on Shaylyn... she was there, sound asleep in her baby bed. We checked on her one more time before going to bed, around 2:00, and she was still asleep.”

Between the hours of 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. Thursday, Morgan said someone took Shaylyn from her crib with just her Winnie the Pooh blanket, and vanished.

Morgan said there were no signs of forced entry to the home and nothing was disturbed in the living room, where Shaylyn slept, with the exception of the toddler occupying her crib. Nothing else was taken from the home, including other necessities for Shaylyn, such as a cup, shoes, a coat, a diaper bag, diapers or baby wipes. Valuables such as a new laptop computer and cell phone were untouched.

“There is only one way in and out of our house, the front door, because the other door is blocked by her father’s bed. No one could get through the windows, because there is furniture in front of every window,” she noted. “They had to walk in the front door, or out the front door, with her.”

Hey Jude said...

Nic - thanks for transcribing, good job. One note round this bit:

Reporter: How are you personally feeling right now?

Grandmother: I’m scared, I’m angry, frustrated all kinds of things.

- here the reporter actually suggested/asked the grandmother if she was feeling scared and angry - so grandmother there was just echoing what had been (helpfully or unhelpfully) suggested to her - 'frustrated' was her own addition. I noted that when I listened last night, thinking Peter would say that was not a good question - I just listened again to be sure. Not to be picky - it does help to have the questions, especially so if they have suggested the response which is then given/parroted, otherwise it gives the impression the person said something without the suggestion/prompting.



Hey Jude said...

Great if you're still up for doing it, Lynda - double helpings - we are so indulged. :)

lynda said...

Here is first transcription of Reporter interviewing both Justin Ammerman(DAD) and Tamera Morgan (grandmother) of Shaylyn. This interview took place on the same day they found her missing, and she is still missing at this point.

Grandmother: Hello

Reporter: Hello, is Justin there?

G: Justin Ammerman?

R: Yes.

G: K, hold on. (Grandmother calls for Justin, voices) Hold on, he's outside for a second. He can't smoke in the house with my mom (Chuckle)

R: No problem at all.

G: He's getting on the other phone, just a second. 3 seconds silence. "Any news yet?"

R: Not that a we've found out. This is Jason over at RTV6, we're trying to get all the information that we can.

G: Oh. Well I'm the grandmother I can tell you a whole lot. (you can hear phone being picked up.

Justin: Hello?

R: Hi Justin, is that you?

J: Yeah, this is me.

R: Hey Justin, this is Jason Fetner over at RTV6 ...how're you holding up?

J: I'm okay

R: What can you tell me? When did you know Shaylyn was missing?

J: Whose this again?

R: This is Jason over at RTV6

J: R, R, R TV6? Ok, uh, what'd you ask me again?

R: When did you notice Shaylyn was missing?

J: I noticed her missing this morning at 8:30

R: And where had she been beforehand?

J: erp..she was, she was with me the whole time, I mean.....

R: Was there a door open or broken? Or a window or anything like that, or?

J: No, not that I know of. Silence...

R: Was there anyone over at the house beforehand?

J: Ahhhhhh..well...um..last night, there was a guy named Kyle there but he was in my brother's room the whole time.

R: Ok, what can you tell me, we're we're recording this for an interview obviously, I need to let you know that, um, what can you tell me about the guy that was there?

J: Uhhhhh...he, he came in and went to my brothers room and....he brought some, ahhhh..he brought some alcohol over there but, ahh..

R: So Shaylyn had been at the house beforehand and as far as you know she was still there up until 8:30 this morning.

J: Yeah.

R: And anything else about this guy that was over there in your brother's room?

J: Uhh..I cou..no I couldn't tell you anything else besides that cause I (draws out "I"), my brother went in my room, got me, I, I was like half asleep, he woke me up, annnd..wanted me to come in there and drink with him but I told him no, so (2 second silence) I don't know really much about that Kyle guy.

R: And any idea about Kyle's last name?

J: No I don't.

R: OK, so you woke up, you woke up at 8:30 and saw that she was missing?

J: Yep.

R: And what have you heard from police so far?

J: Nothin' so far.

R: Have they said anything about this Kyle fella?

J: No, I, ahh, they haven't told me anything, no, all they told me was what they..asked me earlier today.

R: Where had she been sleeping? Does she have a room there?

J: sh..she, she has her bed in the living room (reporter says OK) and she sleeps there.

R: And she had been there last night?

J: Yeah.

R: And you got up this morning at 8:30 and she was gone?

J: Yep.....that's..that's as much as I know right now.

lynda said...

Continued interview with Justin Ammerman

R: How are you feeling right now?

J: Ahhh (big sigh) I (3 second silence) really I feel like crap right now cuz this has never happened to me, this is my first child,er..I don't know who in their right mind would wanna go and take a little girl.......


R: How old is she?

J: She's 1 year, 1 years old (Child is actually 15 months old)

R: Is she able to walk yet?

J: She ca..yeah, she can walk but she's still clumsy an..

R: So you don't think that there's any chance that she could've wandered away on her own? You think someone definitely took her.

J: Yeah..sh..I..she wouldn't of been able to go err..ahh...done much of anything by herself right now. I mean she's only 1 year old an.....silence

R: What can we do to help you, anything at all?

J: Uhhh, (5 seconds of silence) ..reporter jumps in..

R: Because we're getting the word out, we got her picture out there, is there anything you want us to tell people that are watching to try to help get her home?

J: Um, well, would ya be able to talk to my mom about it, ahhh, errr..

R: Sure

J: Um, alright, here, here she (hands the phone off...end of interview with Dad, Justin Ammereman.)

Anonymous said...

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/shaylyn-ammermans-dad-uncle-describe-hours-before-she-went-missing

Hey Jude said...

Shaylyn Ammerman
“I’ve seen these things on Dateline where people are interviewed and stuff. I don’t even know who Nancy Grace is, but everybody else does,” Morgan told the Spencer Evening World. “Maybe we’ll find her.”

She recalls Tuesday being just another normal day, with the majority of the family going out to eat with a friend for lunch.

“We went home and put Shaylyn to bed for a nap around two or three (in the afternoon), and had a normal rest of the day. Shaylyn was playing around on the floor, as normal as she could be. A friend of my son came by, Kyle (Parker), and they had a little drink in his bedroom. No loud music or anything, they watched some movie with my husband,” Morgan said.

---

Not normal, then. And 'maybe we'll find her' as just an afterthought to Nancy Grace, of whom they have never heard - okay.

---


Nic said...

Her son shook her awake frantically Wednesday morning, yelling to see if she had her 1-year-old granddaughter, Shaylyn, Tamera Morgan said.

"He yelled, 'Mom, do you have Shaylyn?'" Morgan said. "I said, 'Of course, I do not have her.

"I went directly to her bed. It was empty."...


http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2016/03/24/search-continues-1-year-old-girl-missing-spencer/82206078/

Emphasis (shook) mine.

Nic said...

@ Hey Jude. You're right. Grandma parroted the reporter. My bad.

_____________

I have read on a couple of sites that Justin Ammerman failed his polygraph, but LE has not confirmed this, yet.

____

I'm having to verify cookies, pies and pancakes. It's making me hungry!

Hey Jude said...

If you just click the 'publish' button it should do it without having to select the pancakes etc, even if the pictures show, so long as you are logged in you can ignore the pictures. That works for me, anyhow.

---

'I went directly to her bed' - would 'directly' be viewed the same as 'immediately' (unnecessary as that would be assumed - she's not going to make breakfast before she finds the baby or calls 911) - sensitive, unless someone was questioning the timeframe?

Droll Skeptic said...

My goodness, this case has eerie parallels to the baby Ayla case.
In particular the dynamic between the child's father and paternal grandmother.
Just like Phoebe DiPietro, this "grandmother" is all about alibiing her precious drug-addict, ne'er-do-well, leach of a son.
"There was NO party here last night!"
"I put her to bed myself--she was fine"
Its sad to know the DiPietros aren't an anomaly.
Anyone who helps cover-up the fact that a family member "accidentally" abused and/or neglected a toddler to death is just as guilty of murder as the perpetrator, IMHO.
At least LE was able to find THIS child's body before it was forever lost to the elements.
So sad.

Hey Jude said...

One last question, then I will be quiet for the night: what is 'yep' in SA? I think it puts a doubt round the 'yes' - either because really it's a 'no' so the person is not quite allowing a 'yes' to form - or it is a 'yes' with emphasis, so the person still doesn't want to say a plain 'yes' - rather more than a yes, a yes plus, out of enthusiasm or agreement. 'Yep' changes the 'yes' somehow?

Here, I think the father means 'no' by saying 'yep'.

Thanks, Lynda, for the transcript.

Anonymous said...

If the reporter's question was "How are you feeling right now?" then the grandmother wasn't parroting when she answered that she's scared/angry/frustrated.

If the reporter asked if she was scared and angry and the grandmother said, "Yes, I'm scared and angry," that would be parroting.

Bobcat said...

Such a sad case. I feel pity for her family, and am hoping her suffering was extremely brief. She is definitely in a better place now than she was with her iffy caregivers.

This is a little OT, but I am building a family tree for Shaylyn (as predicted, broken marriages, too-young and single parents, criminal/absent/abusive fathers) and came across a town in Indiana that sounded familiar. The same town that a relative of Davey Blackburn grew up in! I was then checking facebook "friends" of Shaylyn's maternal grandmother, and guess who is her friend - the same relative of Davey! (More OT - the relative that worked in a grocery store. If you read Davey's grill story, he talks about an abuser that worked in a grocery store.)

I feel like I'm playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, SA version.

Nic said...

Anonymous @ 9:16

The full transcript of the question and response is:

Reporter: Um, last question for you, uh, how are you personally feeling right now. Are you, are you scared? Are you angry?

Huh, I really can't, I-I’m scared. I’m angry. I’m (?inaudible) frustrated and all kinds of things.

Anonymous said...

The father has mental disabilities just so everyone knows.

Nic said...

Another conflicting statement: http://wishtv.com/2016/03/24/persons-of-interests-questioned-in-babys-disappearance/

On Wednesday morning, Morgan went to Shaylyn’s crib to wake her up, but the toddler wasn’t in her bed.

__________

From the same article:

In the interview, he expressed a possible motive, believing that someone is holding a grudge against the family. Ammerman believes someone came through an unlocked door and took Shaylyn out of her crib.

If you believed someone was holding a grudge against your family, would you leave the front door unlocked when you went to bed?

Something else about this family arrangement bothers me. Why is the baby sleeping in the living room? The living room is typically in the middle of the house/commotion. Why would they have the baby's crib in the middle of all the commotion? Why wouldn't the baby's crib be in the parent's bedroom or grandparents' bedroom in this case as the grandmother is on record as being the primary care giver.

Needs answers said...

The grandmother has to registered sex offenders on her friends list. Justin was charged with predatory sexual assault or his young half sister in 2003, charged dismissed in 2012. Since when is a case open that long before being dismissed? And in illinois, where he lived when he was charged with that, it means violent sexual assault when it's a class x felony, which in his case it was.

Needs answers said...

*two registered sex offenders

Hey Jude said...

The father's bed is in an odd sounding place, too - apparently blocking a second external door, so the only way in and out of the house is through the front door, while there is furniture in front of each window.

Is it usual for someone to say 'baby bed' rather than 'crib'?

lynda said...

On air interview with Dad and Adam Ammerman (Justin's brother) today.

Reporter: Asking Adam his name and to spell it. Adam does so. He asks the same of Justin, and Justin does so also.

R: Justin I want to ask you how you are holding up and what's keeping you going.

J: Ahh..I, I don't even know. I'm so stressed, I wish I could pro? take back time and save her.

R: What was Shaylyn like? I know she was 15 months but I'd like to talk about that

J: She was joyful, playful, she was a happy baby. She, she never once complain, you know, she was just a happy baby. She climbed everywhere, she ran everywhere, well, tried to run anyway.

R: You told me she did (with her hands?)

J: Holds both hands up and open and closes his fists while saying, "She done this with her hands, it...just brought tears to my eyes everytime."

R: When was the last time you saw Shaylyn and what was the last thing you said to her?

J: Um, I saw her, last time I saw Shaylyn, was in her bed, and I leaned down, and said daddy loves you, and kissed her goodnight."

R: Adam, Let me ask you..do you live at that house to or were you just staying there that night?

A: I, I live at that house to, and uh, I just, I just wanna remember her as a la, loveable, bouncy, baby girl that laughed, giggled, and, played everywhere, climbed on everything, walked and, she's everywhere in that room,everywhere in that house she has been. She walks everywhere, she, she, she loves to go like this (raises his hands and opens and closes fists) to be picked up, sh, she giggles, she has the most adorable smile on earth. I just...(reporter interrupts)

R: How much joy did she bring to you?

A: She, she brought, err, she was a, my gran, my mom's, first granddaughter and that was, she is the love of our life. She is the most precious, adorable, baby girl that brought enormous, enormous joy to our family.

R: When you found out yesterday, not only of Shaylyns passing but of Kyle's arrest, how do you process all that?

A: (Deep breath in, blows air out with his lips) "Wow. It's just..

Justin interrupts, "we trusted that man"
A: Our..
J: We trusted that man.. (they are overtalking each other)

A: We trusted that man, we trusted that man to the point where we invited him into our house every time and his, his family is, we've been nothing kind, nothing but kind to his family and, we've done no wrong to him, he's, I don't know why he would do this. We..

Justin interrupts

J: I trusted him enough to the point where I went to bed my own self. I went to sleep. When he, him, when he, he was still awake and..(.reporter interrupts)

R: What was, my understanding is you and he were hanging out...

A: It was, it was, 3 of us, it was me, my step dad Danny, and Kyle. We were all in my bedroom. We were sittin dow, sitting down, watching TV and yes, we had a few drinks but nothing to the extent of what they are saying is a party.

R: You're just hanging out.

A: Yes, we're just hanging out having a good 'ole time, laughing, talking about random stuff..(Justin interrupts)

J: I was not, I was nowhere near...(Adam interrupts)

A: Justin was never in the room.

R: What happened tho..did you guys fall asleep? Did Kyle leave?

A: I, I uh, I fell asleep once cuz I was a little hungover an I was tired, I had a, just a little much over my limit, and I went to bed, passed out. I got woken up because my step dad ended up screwing up our TV package on DISH and uh, I had to fix it. That, that was at 1, 2 o'clock in the morning. I fixed that, went to bed. Bout 2:30 (reporter interrupts)

R: Was Kyle still there?

Hey Jude said...

Anon @ 9.16 - Sorry I did not make clear that Nic had paraphrased the question - I thought she'd rather correct it herself. There are links in the comments to the interview if you want to listen to it.

Hey Jude said...

Justin said in the RTV6 interview of Kyle: 'I don't really know much about that guy'.

In the more recent interview (thanks, Lynda):


Justin: we trusted that man"
A: Our..
J: We trusted that man..
A: We trusted that man, we trusted that man to the point where we invited him into our house every time and his, his family is, we've been nothing kind, nothing but kind to his family and, we've done no wrong to him, he's, I don't know why he would do this. We..
J: I trusted him enough to the point where I went to bed my own self. I went to sleep. When he, him, when he, he was still awake and..

Justin says 'family' a lot - I noticed earlier that he said 'family' three times in close succession, of his own family. I wonder if there was a problem/feud going on between the two families, with Kyle maybe having a foot in each camp.

lynda said...

Interview with dad and uncle CONTINUED..


A: Yes he was still there.

R: Awake?

A: Awake.

R: What was he doing?

A: He was still drinking.

R: With himself? With anyone?

A: Yeah, With himself.

R: Was your step dad still there?

A: He was in his room, awake, trying to fix his TV and I was trying to fix the TV..(reporter interrupts)

R: Well where was Kyle?

A: Kyle was in my room, sitting in the chair drinking, and talking to people on his phone I guess cuz I heard the tick, tick, tick, of texting. And uh, at uh, roughly 3, 4 o'clock in the morning I heard the front door open and I look out my window and was walking down the yard to his car, I open my window, I yell out to him, Kyle, where are you going? Nn..He never answered me back. He just got in his car and took off.

R: Did you see Shaylyn at all?

A: No. I, I didn't see Shaylyn at all. I, dr,uh, but then of course I was sleepy, I had sleepy eyes, I was, I had alcohol in me and my vision was all messed up.

R: What do you, I know we don't like to speculate, the autopsy is not even done, what do you guys feel his role is in this or what he did?

A: No. (Justin overtalks, no we have..) Adam interrupts, talks over and louder than Justin, "No, we have no idea what he did." We just, we wanna find out.

J: We want answers. I wanna know why this man come in my house, and did what he did with her. I really wanna know, this...(reporter interrupts)

R: He was a friend right, a family friend?

A: He was a, he was mo, he was more of an acquaintance.

R: And you had just hung out a couple of times?

A: We, we just hung out couple times, he, he, he was, he was a very nice guy. Not uptight, nnn, just a real, decent nice guy. He..(reporter interrupts)

R: Just hanging out

A: Just hanging out.

R: Justin, I know he's in jail , what would you say to him right now?

J: Why? Why did you take my daughter and kill her, but and hopefully not hurt him. And..(reporter interrupts)

R: Do you think anyone else was involved?

J: I don't know. I, (Adam interrupts)

A: I honestly don't think he acted alone. He had to have (Justin interrupts, "Somebody") Somebody a, accomplice, putting him up to it or something. I honestly don't think he would act alone and do this alone.

R: And Justin, you know we have to ask this, did you or your family have anything to do with this?

J: No. Na, na, none of my family had nothing to do with this. Why, why would we? Wer, our family is a peaceful family.

R: Do you guys have as many questions as all of us do? we don't know what his role was or why she ended up like she did

J: No, (Adam: NO)

J: No, we don't (Adam overtalks) No we don't have any questions.

A: We, we have no answers. We can't get no answers from the police, cuz they won't, they won't inform us, I don't know why. They informed the mother before they, in, they, they, they never informed the father but they informed the mother.

R: Justin, how did you find out about this?

J: I found this out on the news and on Facebook.

R: What's it like to find out your 1 year old has passed away like that?

J: Heartbreaking. It, it, 3 second silence, beyond, silence..

R: What can our viewers do? How can they help?

J: Ummm...

R: What do you need?

J: WE can have, get donations, Were, for when we have, when we plan the funeral for her. I'm not sure when that's gonna be. But if you guys can help out anyway you can...

END OF INTERVIEW

lynda said...

Anon above remarked that "dad has mental disabilities just so you know". I don't know who Anon is..but there is a marked difference in speech today from Justin than yesterday. He is much more clear sounding and does not sound like he has any disabilities tho one cannot know. But in my opinion, comparing last night and today...Justin was drunk or high last night on the phone and today he is not. Also should be noticed that brother Adam did most of talking, sometimes interrupting or overtalking Justin and reiterating that Justin was NOT in the room with he and Kyle.

John mcgowan said...

Thanks for the transcript, Lynda.

lynda said...

The above interview was frustrating particularly when Justin was speaking. The reporter kept interrupting both of them during the free edit answers. Ugh! What is wrong with them? This guy was as bad as Oprah. So much more information could have come up because the dad has a habit of just stopping talking...leaving silence and it seems the reporter can't stand to have that happen. If he just would have let that silence ride...dad would have filled in silence eventually and info could have been gleaned.

Nic said...

I have noticed in every interview I've read, *everyone* is very clear that Justin was NOT in Adam's room. There is a lot of sensitivity around where Justin was in the house that night. They say he was sleeping.

Justin refers to Adam's room as "there".

The stepdad isn't mentioned as being in Adam's room until this recent interview. Up until now, there were only Adam and Kyle drinking in Adam's room. Now they say there were "3" of them. Yet later in this recently posted interview the dad is in "his" room trying to fix his TV, Kyle is in Adam's room drinking and texting, Adam is fixing a TV, but the reporter cuts him off.

The grandmother has said that they were not "all over the house" in reference to the "non" party.

The only thing "bothered" was Shaylyn.

The only person that has not been referenced since the grandmother spoke to the reporter is "a Kelly Rogers".



Nic said...



The grandmother goes on about the satellite disruption in terms of music, the boys in one interview talk about movies.

That was Tuesday night, when Justin's brother, Adam, says he, his stepdad, and friend Kyle Parker were in his room watching TV.

“Yes, we’re just hanging out having a good ol' time, laughing, talking about random stuff. Justin was never in the room,” Adam Ammerman said.


The grandmother wanted to make it very clear that they weren't having a "party-party" there was only a "leeetle" bit of alcohol.

“I fell asleep once cause I was a little hung over and I was tired and I had just a little much over my limit and I went to bed, passed out. I got woken up because my step dad ended up screwing up our TV package on DISH and I had to fix that, that was at 1, 2 o'clock in the morning," Adam said.

Adam said at that point, Parker was still awake and was drinking by himself.

“Kyle was in my room sitting in the chair, drinking and talking to people on his phone, I guess, cause I heard the tick, tick, tick texting. And, at roughly, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning, I heard the front door open and I look out my window and Kyle’s walking down the yard to his car. I open my window, I yell out to him, ‘Kyle, where are you going?’ He never answered me back. He just got in his car and took off," Adam said.

Adam said he did not see Shaylyn with Parker.

“No. I didn’t see Shaylyn at all. Then of course, I was sleepy, I had sleepy eyes, I had alcohol in me and my vision was all messed up," he said.

Shaylyn was reported missing the next morning.


"at all" weakens not seeing Shaylyn. Making excuses for "sleepy eyes" and visions "all messed up" also weakens statement that he did not see Shaylyn being carried out of the house.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/shaylyn-ammermans-dad-uncle-describe-hours-before-she-went-missing

LisaB said...

(Her mom) then said she thought it was strange how Shaylyn’s grandmother Tammy was acting. She said, “In one interview Tammy is saying it’s weird they didn’t take anything valuable. She took the most valuable thing there! Why would Grandma say that? You don’t consider Shaylyn to be valuable? Everything else can be replaced, Shaylyn can’t. That threw me…it doesn’t matter what you have so why bring it up.”
Completely and utterly "the expected responses" from the mom.

Nic said...

And, at roughly, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning, I heard the front door open and I look out my window and Kyle’s walking down the yard to his car. I open my window, I yell out to him, ‘Kyle, where are you going?’ He never answered me back. He just got in his car and took off," Adam said.

It would be interesting to see where Adam's room is in proximity to the drive-way (if he could see anybody leave). Was the porch light on? The tense used to report what he saw is not past tense.

"took off" implies a negative emotion. Being upset.

Then there's the fact that Adam had been drinking the whole night in Adam's room and they having a "good 'ol time". Then Adam's "took off" and wouldn't answer Adam back when he "yelled out to him".

Sounds like there was some arguing going on.

tania cadogan said...

“We went home and put Shaylyn to bed for a nap around two or three (in the afternoon), and had a normal rest of the day. Shaylyn was playing around on the floor, as normal as she could be. A friend of my son came by, Kyle (Parker), and they had a little drink in his bedroom. No loud music or anything, they watched some movie with my husband,” Morgan said

It looks to have been anything but a normal day since the word normal is repeated twice, once in relation to the rest of the day and once in relation to Shaylyn playing on the floor.
Why would there be sensitivity in relation to Shaylyn playing on the floor?

Hey Jude said...

One last question, then I will be quiet for the night: what is 'yep' in SA? I think it puts a doubt round the 'yes' - either because really it's a 'no' so the person is not quite allowing a 'yes' to form - or it is a 'yes' with emphasis, so the person still doesn't want to say a plain 'yes' - rather more than a yes, a yes plus, out of enthusiasm or agreement. 'Yep' changes the 'yes' somehow?

Here, I think the father means 'no' by saying 'yep'.

Thanks, Lynda, for the transcript.

March 25, 2016 at 9:03 PM

Hi Hey Jude, i would look to see if yep is part of his personal internal dictionary or only crops up occasionally.
It can be down to location such as regional dialect, education - smart or non smart, it can be a personal phase he uses, some always say yes, yeah, yeppers, yah etc.
I would look to see where he uses that specific word and where is uses something else.
if it changes when something sensitive is said, if it only shows up in a specific situation.

I look at it the same way i look at the word seen
Some folk will say I saw and others will mangle tenses and say I seen

LisaB said...

The DAD, however...
J: We want answers. I wanna know why this man come in my house, and did what he did with her. I really wanna know, this...(reporter interrupts)

----"WITH her"? Not "TO her"?----

J: Uhh..I cou..no I couldn't tell you anything else besides that cause I (draws out "I"), my brother went in my room, got me, I, I was like half asleep, he woke me up, annnd..wanted me to come in there and drink with him but I told him no, so (2 second silence) I don't know really much about that Kyle guy. 

R: And any idea about Kyle's last name?

J: No I don't.

----(LATER)----

J: We trusted that man.. 
A: We trusted that man, we trusted that man to the point where we invited him into our house every time and his, his family is, we've been nothing kind, nothing but kind to his family and, we've done no wrong to him, he's, I don't know why he would do this. We..
J: I trusted him enough to the point where I went to bed my own self. I went to sleep. When he, him, when he, he was still awake and..

----Which is it? Trusted him and his family, or don't know him or his last name?----

J: Ahhh (big sigh) I (3 second silence) really I feel like crap right now cuz this has never happened to me, this is my first child...

----Oh for the love of... Is he saying that if he had other kids, this would have happened to them, so he'd have more experience with it?----

LisaB said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LisaB said...

Between the hours of 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. Thursday, Morgan said someone took Shaylyn from her crib with just her Winnie the Pooh blanket, and vanished.

Morgan said there were no signs of forced entry to the home and nothing was disturbed in the living room, where Shaylyn slept, with the exception of the toddler occupying her crib. Nothing else was taken from the home, including other necessities for Shaylyn, such as a cup, shoes, a coat, a diaper bag, diapers or baby wipes. Valuables such as a new laptop computer and cell phone were untouched.

----This is the grandmother talking... I thought she originally said the diaper bag was taken. And, aside from Deborah Bradley's case, most people who would come inside your house to take a baby would not be interested in taking your electronics, particularly a cell phone, essentially a tracking device that would lead right to the missing baby?----

tania cadogan said...

“They weren’t all over the house, they were just in the bedroom. I was putting Shaylyn to sleep at that time; I put her in her crib around 8:00 or 8:30 and she finally went to sleep around 10:00 or 10:30. I stayed up and watched a little more T.V. I just made sure she was sleeping and I went to lay down, probably around 11:00,” Morgan said. “My husband woke me up coming to bed, messing with the TV, around midnight. So I went out to the living room to mess with the TV and checked on Shaylyn... she was there, sound asleep in her baby bed. We checked on her one more time before going to bed, around 2:00, and she was still asleep.
I find this strange and concerning.
It smacks of similarity with justin dipietro and also billie jean dunn.

“They weren’t all over the house, they were just in the bedroom.
Anything in the negative is sensitive.
Just is used to compare downwards and minimize.
Did she say this in response to a question or accusation?
Is she parroting the interviewer in her response making it unreliable as in not said using the process of free editing?
How many bedrooms are there?
The bedroom as opposed to a specific bedroom.
Is there sensitivity about a specific bedroom?

I was putting Shaylyn to sleep at that time; I put her in her crib around 8:00 or 8:30 and she finally went to sleep around 10:00 or 10:30
She tells us she WAS putting not that I PUTShaylyn.
Putting to sleep comes before putting her in her crib.
I would ask more questions about that specific time since you put someone in their crib to sleep not put them top sleep and then put them in their crib.

I put her in her crib around 8:00 or 8:30 and she finally went to sleep around 10:00 or 10:30.
Given she was sleeping in the living room, why did they not put her crib in a quiet room without the hustle and bustle of people coming in and out.
Why did it take Shaylyn 2 hours to get to sleep?
What was going on between those times?

I stayed up and watched a little more T.V.
Where was everyone else?

I just made sure she was sleeping and I went to lay down, probably around 11:00,” Morgan said.
I just made sure she was sleeping as compared to doing what?
Just is used to compare downwards or minimize.
She was comparing sleeping to what?
Had something been done or given that would cause Shaylyn to be something else other than sleeping?
What happened between 10-10.30 and around 11:00 when she went to lay down?
She doesn't tell us she lay down, only that she went to.
Did something happen that would cause her not to lay down?

“My husband woke me up coming to bed, messing with the TV, around midnight.
Which woke her up, coming to bed or messing with the TV?
Improper social introduction?
Given the lateness of the evening, why the need to mess with the TV?
Is watching TV that late in bed usual?
Why not leave it till the morning?
Note we have gone from a number o'clock to midnight.

cont.

tania cadogan said...

cont.

So I went out to the living room to mess with the TV and checked on Shaylyn... she was there, sound asleep in her baby bed.
SO is used to explain WHY something happened or was said.
It answers an unasked question, a question the subject thinks will be asked next, in this case, "Why did you go into the living room?"
This makes what is said, sensitive.
Why would there be sensitivity about going into the living room?
My question is answered when she tells us why there is sensitivity.
and checked on Shaylyn... she was there, sound asleep in her baby bed.
Note though there is a dropped pronoun in relation to the checking.
She doesn't say she checked on Shaylyn directly "and i checked or I also checked
Why does she not take ownership of the checking?
Did something happen or had something already happened?
Is this just a way to 'confirm' a later sighting of Shaylyn?

she was there, sound asleep in her baby bed.
Note the change in language, crib and now changed to baby bed
Is the change in language warranted by a change in reality?
A live Shaylyn is placed in her crib at between 8:00 and 8:30
At a later time stamp, midnight, the crib has now changed to a baby bed as she checks Shaylyn.
She places Shaylyn in her baby bed not her crib,she also tells us sound asleep in her baby bed.
There is a dropped pronoun as she tells us sound asleep rather than she was sound asleep.
Was Shaylyn there as opposed to somewhere else?

We checked on her one more time before going to bed, around 2:00, and she was still asleep.
Who is the WE she refers to?
There is now a temporal lacunae of 2 hours between midnight and 2:00.
What happened in that time?
She told us that it was only she that went to the living room to mess with the TV and check on Shaylyn.
Who then arrived that she now resorts to the pronoun WE
WE is used to show unity, shared cooperation and also to minimise one's own role or to share guilt (anyone with kids will know this)
During this 2 hour temporal lacuna, who else was in the house?
Where were they in the house?
Who was doing what in the house?
How long did she spend messing with the TV?
What does messing with the TV entail?
Did it get fixed?
If so what was done once it was fixed?

If Shaylyn was sleeping in the living room and they were present for the two hours, did anything change in that time in relation to Shaylyn?
What did the check involve?
Who was the WE that checked?
Was it one person or more?
How did they know she was still asleep and not something else?

There is sensitivity about who was in the house, what they were doing, not having a party just a little drink.
What is their definition of a party?
There is sensitivity about Shaylyn in the living room and a change in reality causing a change in language from crib to baby bed.
There are temporal lacunae.
There is no indication as to who the WE is in relation to the final check.

Peter Hyatt said...

Just an explanation on the word "so" in analysis.

When someone uses the word "so" with the intent on explaining "why", in an open statement, one should first make certain that no contamination exists; that is, the person is answering a previous question.

Next, we must recognize that some people, depending upon intellect, education and region, use the word "so" in place of "then", as a passage of time.

Recently, a statement showed this very thing. It would appear 'off the charts' sensitive (in blue) if not considered that this is the habit of speech used simply to say what happened next.

Overall, however, that this family has negative associations over to their home?

The father went to vengeance against them, as his first reason why. This tells us he has knowledge of friends/associates that are not appropriate for children.

NEGLECT.

In the above, she said, "So I went in...and checked", not "to check", which should cause us to consider that this "so" is not "because" or "the reason why" in analysis. The word "and" must be noted. (I could not underline "and" in the comments section).

It changes the entire analysis for us. Some people will use it throughout a statement as it is their norm. We look for such a baseline to also assist us.

In other uses:

The use of "so I went out...to the TV" is to explain why she did. The subject, herself, guides us. Her husband was "messing" around with the TV, which likely annoyed her, causing her to go to the TV in the living room.

We are 'slaves' to the subject, and to the context, and the subject must guide us always.

There are many times we highlight "the reason why" when no typical word is actually used, because intent is there.

Yesterday, a rape statement was replete with "so" but it was not 'the reason why' and it completely changed the shading.



John mcgowan said...

R: "And Justin, you know we have to ask this, did you or your family have anything to do with this?2

J: "No. Na, na, none of my family had nothing to do with this. Why, why would we? Wer, our family is a peaceful family.

He answers "No" but then feels the need to go beyond the question using the reporters language almost verbatim. He then asks a question back "why, why, would we? Then goes even further stating that his family is "a peaceful family"

This question is very sensitive!

lynda said...

Lisa B said

"----Which is it? Trusted him and his family, or don't know him or his last name?----

___________________

I noticed that when I was transcribing it was so obvious. 12 hours before dad was saying he didn't even know the guy and then after the discovery of the body Kyle becomes a "trusted" friend, his extended family is also known. Quite a difference.

The dad and brother don't seem to have a clue why they were not notified about the body and had to learn it on TV. LE made a special point during their press conference to say they quickly notified family so they wouldn't learn about it on SM or TV. I guess they only notified mom. Why? Because they think you're involved morons! Sheesh!

Hey Jude said...

Tania, thanks for your 'yep' thoughts - and for your analysis.

--

The 'baby bed' is interesting - I haven't heard of a crib being called such - a baby bed to my mind is one of those miniature 'real' beds for toddlers, but they seem to mean a crib. I wondered if the baby was laid in a bed, and if somewhere one of them had said she was in the 'bed' then changed it to 'baby bed', but if so, I can't find it, so maybe they do just say 'baby bed', but why the change in language? I wondered if maybe someone had put her on Justin's bed, which sounds like it is in a living space rather than a bedroom, and if drunk or drugged, lay over her and fell to sleep. But if everything was 'normal' and if she was playing as 'normal' earlier in the day, maybe something happened earlier as something was very likely not normal - maybe she had been fretful and crying earlier, and did not settle that day or night - maybe someone took her up from the crib and put her on the bed, and accidentally lay over her (that could also be thought of as a 'baby bed', maybe - if that's where sometimes she might be laid or where she might climb and fall to sleep - if it is in the living space). If they were all drunk or high, they might cover it up.

Hey Jude said...

Thanks, Anon - in this bit of the world it is 'cot', ( and sometimes also 'cradle' for a tiny baby). I have not heard 'baby bed' used except in relation to a toddler's first 'real' bed.

lynda said...

Toddler bed and baby bed are interchangeable here in Ohio. A crib is a crib, we don't call it a baby bed. A cradle is a bassinette.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I caught myself using "yep" today, and I thought of you. I live in Michigan, and the context I used it in was a friend emailed me a "cheer up" email (in reply to my complaining email), reminding me of my blessings, and my reply was "Yep! I do have all that! You're right!" Around here, we often use "yep" as a cheerful and an "of course" yes. Like, an "already did that". "Did you walk the dog?" "Yep!" In this case, I was trying to cheerfully assure my friend I was okay with "Yep! Got that!"

tania cadogan said...

In the UK a cot is used for babies and a baby bed is the first proper bed for a toddler, small and low to the ground.
Some will use crib rather than cot, this depends on where they live and social class usually.
Middle and upper class tend to use crib whilst the working class use cot.
The south would say crib whilst the north would say cot.

A baby bed is not interchangeable with cot or crib.
A crib or cot are interchangeable.
A bassinet is regarded as upper middle to upper class and refers to a specific style of baby bed, usually birth to 4 months, after that age babies can turn themselves over and thus turn the bassinet over as well.

They are usually baskets on casters so they can be easily moved around as opposed to a cot which is a bigger, solid, fixed frame bedding item, possibly with drop down sides.

tania cadogan said...

Thanks for the explanation Peter.

tania cadogan said...

Kyle Parker, the Indiana man being held in connection with the death of 14-month-old Shaylyn Ammerman, was a 'family acquaintance' who visited her home a dozen times and used to play with the child, Fox 59 reported Friday.

Shaylyn's uncle, Adam, said: 'He knew Shaylyn, he's played with her, he's taken care of her. He rocked her to sleep.'

He added: 'I knew Kyle through a friend of a friend and he was supposed to be one good friend, and then he turned around and does this to our family, and all I can say right now is I hope he burns in Hell.'

Parker, 22, described by Adam Ammerman as a 'family acquaintance,' was arrested on Thursday evening after Shaylyn's body the White River, around nine miles from her home.

She had previously been seen alive at midnight on Tuesday evening, when her grandmother checked on her as she slept in her cot.

The child, who had earlier been put to bed by her father, Justin Ammerman, had disappeared by the following morning.

Parker, who is refusing to speak with police but has not been formally charged, was said to have visited the family home around a dozen times by Shaylyn's grandmother, Tamera Morgan.

'He talked so kindly,' Morgan told USA Today. 'He played with Shaylyn.'

Owen County Sheriff Leonard Sam Hobbs said Friday that there are still many unanswered questions in the case.

Parker was faces possible charges of obstruction of justice, failure to report a dead body and unlawful disposition of a dead body.

Parker was at the girl's father's home on Tuesday evening, Mr Ammerman told ABC 6.

Parker, who 'likes' an array of marijuana smoking groups on Facebook and is friends with Shaylyn's uncle, Adam Ammerman.

Police say Justin Ammerman is still a person of interest and have not ruled further arrests as the investigation continues.

The girl's father, who was subject to a police polygraph test earlier on Thursday, has denied claims he was having a party on the night of his daughter's apparent abduction.

But family members told the Herald-Times that Shaylyn's father, uncle, grandfather and a family friend - believed to be Parker - were up late drinking whiskey and watching television.

The gathering wound down at about 2am when the friend is said to have left the family home.

Justin Ammerman said the family went into 'panic mode' when they realized Shaylyn was missing the next morning.

The father was subjected to a lie detector test by police earlier on Thursday as cops interviewed up to 10 people of interest. It is not know whether he passed or failed the test and no accusations have been made against him.

Shaylyn's mother, Jessica Stewart, confirmed her daughter had been found dead in a heartbreaking Facebook post on Thursday evening.

'My babygirl Shaylyn is gone. They found her body tonight,' she wrote.

Ms Stewart and Mr Ammerson shared custody of Shaylyn, who was spending the week with her father when she disappeared.

Mr Ammerson put his daughter to bed last night, with his mother - with whom he lives - the last person known to have seen the girl alive.

Ms Stewart earlier said her former partner knew more than he was letting on, saying she believed her daughter had been abducted.

'I don't know if he had anything to do with it but I think he knows something at the very least that he is afraid to say,' she told WTHR.

However Tamera Morgan, Shaylyn's grandmother, defended her son.

'He has nothing to do with her disappearance other than he is the father. He put her to sleep like anyone else would,' she said.

Anyone with information is urged to call Indiana State Police on (812) 332-4411

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510236/Kyle-Parker-held-police-connection-dead-Indiana-toddler-Shaylyn-Ammerman-family-acquaintance-played-rocked-sleep-says-uncle-Adam-Ammerman.html


Bubbles said...

Baby bed and crib are interchangeable here in the Midwest. It's more old fashioned - I remember my grandparents and parents calling the crib a baby bed more than anyone in my age group. Then there was a playpen which is more commonly referred to now as a pack & play or a portable crib.

Rella said...

Anon @738-

The grandmother said they put Shaylyn down for a nap at about 2 or 3. A usual nap of 1-2 hours would mean waking up sometime between 3-5. I cannot speak for anyone else's children, but I remember when my youngest was aound 15 months old, having to choose between her taking a nap every day, or going to bed earlier. If she took a nap, she wouldn't go to sleep at night until 10 or later. If she did not nap, she would go to bed at about 8. We chose to get rid of the nap. So they may have put her down to go to sleep at 8ish, but since ahe took a nap, she didn't go to sleep until later.

Anonymous said...

How come no one talks about the child being raped? The people ("family") describing her say how she was joyful, happy, loving, and so on. How come none of the news reports mention RAPE. Does it bother anyone I said that, in caps? I wonder how many followers of this story are aware of WHY the dear child was taken, and what probably happened to her.

Rella said...

Anon @833-

No one is talking about, I would guess, because it hasn't been said hat that is what happened. Even if it did happen, what would there be to discuss about it? Also, I don't think people would want to discuss that, if it dis happen, because the mere thought of it is extremely disturbing.

lynda said...

Anon @ 8:33

WE are only aware of what has been reported in the papers or interviews done on television. If you have links to what you are saying, please post. The only thing released by the coroner is COD which was asphyxiation.

foodiefoodnerd said...

lynda, thanks as always for all of your time, effort, skill and PATIENCE in working these transcriptions! You deserve a steak dinner. For each one!

Can you please clarify, when the self-absorbed idiot steering the interview asked if any of them has any questions, Adam drowned out Justin's attempt to respond, answering for all of them that "they" had no further questions?

I couldn't tell (and maybe neither could you...) if that's what Adam interrupted because the idiot was interrupting him AGAIN.

Hey Jude, people frequently say yup for yes because it sort of matches nope for no. Except usually it's in a series of "yup or nope" questions.

Hey Jude said...

Anon @ 4.55 - and foodie above. Thanks for the 'yep' info. I'll add that to my things to remember. :)

Jen Ow said...

Wow!

As always, thank you for the transcriptions.

Heavy alibi building throughout! In every instance where they need to cite a time, they give at least a 2hr window. Then later, in another interview they will back it up another 2 hrs.

For example, Grandmother first said she put Shaylyn to bed at 10:30, then checked on her at midnight...or 1..no, 2am...stretching the last sighting across 3+ hours. Then she later says that she put Shaylyn to bed at 8:30, but she didn't fall asleep until about 10:30. Again, a long window of imprecise time that she can later modify as needed to fit her 'story'.

-------------

I guess I'm being judgemental, but who the heck lives like this?

"Baby bed" in the common area to be exposed to all the noise, commotion, (and most importantly DANGER) of 'aquaintances' traipsing in and out of the front door at all hours of the night/early morning?

Both adult sons living with their Mommy and Stepdaddy, with at least one of them partying with stepdad until he 'passes out' *(on a weekday night no less) and the other sleeping on a bed blocking the only other exit, (fire hazard!) while his daughter is there, and his Mommy functions as her caregiver?

Apparently none of them see this as an unsuitable environment for the baby in their care?

If this story is what they chose to offer LE and the public as an 'innocent' and 'normal' night in their home, then I can only imagine what really goes on under their roof!

Nic said...

Anonymous @8:33, the notion crossed my mind, the reason being is the constant emphasis about Shaylyn being a 'girl', the first granddaughter, the mention of diapers and the the grandmother being very clear in her telephone interview that she was the one who took care of her. The father wanting to know what Parker did "with" Shaylyn. That the father was no where near Shaylyn (he was asleep/alibi building), but you listen to him talk about his brother wanting him to go “over there” to drink with him, and it’s clear he isn’t telling the truth about being woken up from being “half asleep”. The father didn't go “over there” or “ in there” (x2).

Last night there was a guy named, Kyle, there. But he was in my brother’s room the whole time.

Why would he put “that guy name, Kyle,” in his brother’s room there “the whole time”. The brother’s room is made to sound like a bad place to be and doesn't want to go anywhere near it.

The grandmother was very clear that they weren’t all over the house, that whatever was going on was restricted to Adam's room. (?) And Adam 'passed out' leaving Kyle "alone" in his bedroom drinking and texting, he figures, because he could hear the 'tap, tap, tap'.

There was a girl, “a Kelly Rogers” introduced first at Midnight, then after 2:00 AM, but she has never been mentioned since. So the grandmother introduces a mature “girl” on the scene. We haven’t heard anything about “a Kelly Rogers” who evidentially doesn’t or doesn’t stay anymore with them.

This bothers me the most:

Aside from who got up first and at what time changing frequently there’s this:

""He yelled, 'Mom, do you have Shaylyn?'" Morgan said. "I said, 'Of course, I do not have her.

Emotion perfectly placed. Of course (need to persuade) I do (affirmative) ….not have her. (denial)


There is so much lying and covering up. But the one thing that is constant is that the father was asleep and nowhere near Adam's room.

Nic said...

Asphyxiation as COD is preliminary. Someone with a system full of heroin could die of “asphyxiation”. COD by asphyxiation takes a very long time. Asphyxiation is the result of irregular breathing. There are quite a few reasons for this, such as drugs, alcohol, a broken wind pipe, etc. I am curious to hear what other

My sister-in-law’s mom had Parkinson’s. She didn't of Parkinson’s, she died with it. Or people with AIDS die of certain AIDS related cancers or pneumonia, they don’t die “of AIDS”.


Peter Hyatt said...

Tania

That was a lesson on principle.

You're on the right track however.

That the father of a missing child thinks of revenge in some form, he reveals an association with at least one person of whom he believes capable of child abduction.

Do most of us pal around w those we would consider capable of such?

I respect that you appreciate correction.

Unknown said...

father said " He went to see if she was there " not that he went to go get her

foodiefoodnerd said...

Hey Jude, I should clarify that yup and nope are very informal, even flippant; you wouldn't answer a judge with "Nope, Your Honor," (not if you hope to make bail... :^D) or tell a patient, "Yep, you've got about six months if you're lucky."

foodiefoodnerd said...

Nic, I would ask that wackjob of a grandmother why is it so "of course" obvious your 14-month-old granddaughter is nowhere near you when she unexpectedly is not in her crib late at night?
Is there a reason why you see yourself as the last place she would be if a nightmare awoke her and scared her?

Anonymous said...

I think a child should not have been with any of these people..leaves a baby to sleep in unlocked living room with low functioning people coming and going all night? Granny should not have been caregiver for ANYONE.

Anonymous said...

I think a child should not have been with any of these people..leaves a baby to sleep in unlocked living room with low functioning people coming and going all night? Granny should not have been caregiver for ANYONE.

lynda said...

Nic said...
"Asphyxiation as COD is preliminary. Someone with a system full of heroin could die of “asphyxiation”. COD by asphyxiation takes a very long time. Asphyxiation is the result of irregular breathing. There are quite a few reasons for this, such as drugs, alcohol, a broken wind pipe, etc. I am curious to hear what other"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know we're not supposed to "assume" anything but my immediate response to asphyxiation is she was smothered either with the pinched nose, hand over mouth, a pillow, or someone lying on top of her. There are children that smother in their own beds because they get wedged between the mattress and the railings and such but that would seem to be much younger. Infants really. A 15 month old would more than likely have the wherewithal to extricate herself if she was stuck. Alcohol or drugs COD would be "respiratory arrest" due to overdose..etc. Asphyxiation would come from aspiration, usually of vomit. Carbon Moxoxide, if she choked on something.. at least in my neck of the woods this is how COD would be written up. Death was caused by asphyxiation DUE TO.....I wonder if LE is holding back everything that really happened. They very well could be.

I agree...Grandma said that Kelly Rogers also LIVED there. Where did that person go and where were they? How come they aren't mentioned at all?

I've read on FB that Kyle worked at a funeral home. Take that for what you will.


lynda said...

Dad Justin also has arrest records for sex crimes/underage online. I don't know the status of the case or if it has been dispensed.

Found an early interview that had not been transcribed. This is before Shaylyn was found. It is a video interview. This is Dad (Justin) Uncle (Adam) and Grandma (Tamera). Also, if anyone watches this, is it just me or is it creepy that mom has her hand basically touching the crotch of Uncle Adam? That is WAAAY to close to gonads for me!

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/news/crime/father-and-grandmother-of-missing-toddler-talk-about-the-events/video_92820eb8-f1fa-11e5-9d11-47b6c68ddf83.html


Cuts right into Justin speaking, no question asked:

Dad: I'd like to know who, who, who, who in the world would, would do this. I mean, this is a small town, you should know, you know that, right? I mean...

A: Nothing like this really happens in Spencer. Spencer's like the world's smallest town

T : Interrupts Adam/overtalking "Well it's not the worlds smallest town

A: Overtalking Tamera: Well, no, it's, but nothing like this has ever happened. And uh, we don't know why it's happening to us right now.

Dad: We're not bad people.

A: Yeah, we're not bad people. We've never made enemies with anybody.

T: Somebody had to walk thru our front door and take her. They did not bother anything in the house, nothing in the house was disturbed. It was just like it was when I went to bed and when I got up except for Shaylyn was gone. There was her baby blankets laying on the couch next to her bed were not disturbed, her toys were not disturbed, nothing in the house was taken but Shaylyn. It was, it's pure panic, I mean you, you, imagine, you wake up and go in..and get your baby out of the baby bed and she's not there. And then, okay. Next thing you're searching the house even though she's to little to get out of the baby bed. You search the house. And then she's nowhere in the house. You know, you just go in panic mode. It's like, where is the baby?

J: I, I was up this morning, I went over there to the baby bed, looked in, seen Shaylyn not there. I ran in there and al, almost knocked my mom's door down.

A: Oh yeah.

T: Yeah, he did literally, he scared me to death. I was practically awake but mmm-hmmm, he's like, "Do you have Shaylyn?" I was like, "noo" and I was up. And I went directly to her bed. And it was just totally empty.

Anonymous said...

This news article states Kelly Rogers is Justin Ammerman's ex-girlfriend. It also states she got to the house at 4:00 am. This arrival time, I believe conflicts with the time Shaylyn's grandmother initially gave. The news article also states Justin & his brother took polygraphs.

The Indiana Daily Student: http://www.idsnews.com/article/2016/03/body-found-believed-to-be-missing-spencer-toddler

Anonymous said...

Baby Shaylyn had many odd's against her being raised in a home where people are allowed to walk in and out of anytime of night. Dad wasn't able to protect her because he's in his room with the door closed and grandma is on sleeping pills in her bedroom with the door closed, and uncle is in his room, drinking & watching tv with his door closed as well.

I found this news article where the grandmother brings up taking sleeping pills that night.

“We don’t know if anybody else came in or left, because me and my husband both take sleeping pills to go to sleep at night,” she added. “The boys sleep with their TV’s on anyway, so unless a noise is loud it’s not going to wake them up. One other person came in between four and seven, that was Kelly Rogers, she actually lives there temporarily. She came in and then she left, I know she did because she left a couple of newspapers on the bar. She and her boyfriend deliver newspapers and she always brings me one. Those are the only people we know for a fact were in the house.”

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/news/2016-03-25/Front_Page/Body_Of_Missing_Toddler_Found_Thursday_Northeast_O.html

Nic said...

Lynda, I agree with your examples, sometimes it is thought an infant dies of SIDS, but through further "investigation" it is discovered a parent rolled over on their infant and suffocated them. Some artists' COD who have died of AIDS are listed as, i.e., "AIDS-related" cancer/pneumonia or "bronchopneumonia brought on by AIDS" (Freddie Mercury). In my s-i-l's mother's case, Parkinson's is *not* listed as COD. She died with it. My sis-in-law's dad recently died of acute leukaemia. The leukaemia was a result of colon cancer (the associated radiation). But his COD is listed simply as leukaemia.

I will be interested to hear if there was any kind of trauma inflicted on Shaylyn. I agree with you that LE is probably holding some information back. It's funny "peculiar" they haven't charged Adam Parker with murder. So far they've charged him with two counts of obstruction of justice, one count of failure to report a dead body, and a count of unlawful disposition of a body. Everybody appears to be pointing the finger at Kyle referencing what he did "with" her and "to" her, but LE isn't so quick to judge.

I was watching the brothers being interviewed on-line last night. Adam had a habit of holding up his hands like, "wasn't me".

I listened to an on-line report last night and what they said in reference to Justin was that (paraphrasing,) they heard he took a poly and that there were rumours but they couldn't confirm the results, yet.

When I first listened to the grandmother rhyme off times every hour, i.e., "and at Midnight 12, one o’clock , at 2:00 o’clock AM she was there, in her bed. after that?" Grandmother doesn't say she went to bed yet she can pretty much say who is coming and going until 7:30AM. Her account of events jive with Adam when she says that Kyle left around 3 (or 4) AM.

Now Anonymous says Kelly arrived at 4:00AM (not at Midnight or 2:00AM).


So 2:00AM appears to be when Shaylyn is "unaccounted for". Three or four is when grandmother and Adam say Kyle left. LE have charged Kyle with disposing a body (Shaylyn).


The first thing that popped into my head when I listened to grandmother rhyme off the times ever hour was that Shaylyn had some sort of (head) trauma. (When a kid has a concussion you're suppose to wake them every hour.) As I was posting, John posted preliminary findings. So that made me think whatever happened to her, wasn't immediate and they were too afraid to call 911. For whatever reason, I think Midnight was when the grandmother was roused from bed and she tended to Shaylyn from Midnight to 2. "after that?"

jmo

Nic said...

Lynda said:

Dad Justin also has arrest records for sex crimes/underage online. I don't know the status of the case or if it has been dispensed.

Found an early interview that had not been transcribed. This is before Shaylyn was found. It is a video interview. This is Dad (Justin) Uncle (Adam) and Grandma (Tamera). Also, if anyone watches this, is it just me or is it creepy that mom has her hand basically touching the crotch of Uncle Adam? That is WAAAY to close to gonads for me!


Grandma - I agree her hand crosses a boundary.

Adam appears really concerned (distracted/face glued to iPhone).

Thank you. I went looking for the reference to arrest for sex crimes, but all I could find was a reference to "James Nathanial Ammerman" and thought what I had initially read was in err.

lynda said...

Nic...if you look around on comments on news FB and such, there are a lot of people posting SS of his arrest.

I'm still creeped out about mama's hand basically on her sons crotch. I wouldn't even put my hand on my husband like that unless we were alone...NOT on television giving an interview. This family is seriously off.

Nic said...

Lynda, I'm not on FB so anything there, I can't access (I would have to sign up). The same news sources keep popping up, but there are next to no comments (one!) or they have been disabled. I think I may actually query the cesspool, Topix, to read the local gossip.

I did learn that Kyle Parker will be appearing (via video) in court today. I also came across this "old" quote made by the grandmother:

"You know that you did it and then be so straight, and calm, and cool and just lie for a day. A whole 24 hours of lying, when you knew where that baby was,” said Tammy Morgan, Shaylyn’s grandmother"

http://fox59.com/2016/03/25/family-reacts-after-arrest-of-suspect-in-death-of-1-year-old-spencer-girl/



...Her body was found at around 6 p.m. local time on March 24. Her cause of death was asphyxiation....The girl had been missing from her father’s home on West Jefferson Street in Spencer, Indiana, since the night of March 22 or early on the morning of March 23. ...


http://heavy.com/news/2016/03/kyle-parker-shayln-justin-ammerman-murder-suspect-death-facebook-page/

The body of Shaylyn Ammerman was found Thursday night. According to Indiana State Police, the remains were discovered around 6 p.m. in a remote area located near the White River and northeast of Gosport. Police announced late Thursday that Parker had been arrested in connection with the case.

http://fox59.com/2016/03/25/man-held-on-multiple-charges-in-connection-with-death-of-shaylyn-ammerman/



Note the what the grandmother says about the duration of time.

Kyle Parker, the only one who has been arrested until now, has not been charged with murder, so who is the grandmother talking about?

Nic said...

https://twitter.com/Teresa_Mackin

Court documents incredibly hard to read in case of Shaylyn Ammerman - doc said worst case of sexual trauma she had seen in her career.

Nic said...

https://twitter.com/Mabuckley88

BREAKING: Kyle Parker charged with rape, child molesting, murder in the death of 1-year-old Shaylyn Ammerman. Story soon

Rella said...

I hope that poor baby died prior to everything else. Heartbreaking.

Peter Hyatt said...

Nic,

I have not followed this closely. Does Kyle Parker have an association with the house? Tania?

Rella, I understand your sentiment.

Nic said...

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/news/2016-03-28/Front_Page/Family_Recalls_Hours_Before_After_Toddler_Went_Mis.html

“He was supposed to be a friend, but he was more of an acquaintance. This wasn’t the first time (we had drank together). I woke up when I heard him leaving, but I didn’t think nothing of it,” Adam said. “I wish everybody in the world would quit blaming our family, it was not us, we had nothing to do with this.”

The two brothers said they are peaceful people, and are tired of being harassed by the public and media.

“We’re just done with it now, we’re tired of being peaceful people. We’re no longer peaceful,” Adam said. “We’re done being kind-hearted.”

Tamera said every time Parker visited the home, he was always polite.

“One morning I got up and he was sitting right here, rocking her to sleep, watching cartoons,” she recalled. “He was always friendly. One day he cleaned out from under the kitchen table for me and took the trash out.”

Others in the home early last Wednesday morning were Justin’s ex-girlfriend, Kelly Rogers, and Brian Cummings.

“They either came right after he left or sometime right after. They laid the newspapers (on the counter) and left. They don’t get done with their paper route until about 4:30 or five o’clock, I know how long that route takes. They probably got done around 4:30ish. I do believe she (Shaylyn) was gone by then.”

Morgan has said from the beginning, living in Spencer for most of her life, the family felt no need to lock their door. In fact, she said the door cannot be locked, due to a malfunctioning door knob.

“We have no reason to lock the door now, what are they going to come in and take now?” she said before tears began to stream down her face.

Adam said the family just can’t figure out why the tragedy happened.

Justin said he believes the case will be an ‘unsolved mystery.’

[...]

Tamera said at least the family has closure after police discovered Shaylyn’s remains.

“At least we did find out that they found her with her clothes on,” she said. “She’s already in heaven, so that’s taken care of.”


[...]

Few signs of Shaylyn remained the day after law enforcement removed police tape and barricades, allowing the family to return to their home. An unopened box of diapers sat on the kitchen table and a half-dozen framed photos sat on shelves. The family returned home to find an angel statue and a stuffed animal in memory of Shaylyn on their doorstep.

“I know you don’t see much of anything baby around, but I just had to get it out of here. Her baby bed was in that corner,” Tamera said, pointing to the southwest corner of the family’s living room. “Me and my son took a hammer to it this morning and demolished it. (Saturday) night I gave her riding toys to my nephew for his little girl and then this morning we got up and took all of her toys, clothes and stuff out.”

Justin said he wants people to remember his daughter’s smile and how beautiful she was, recalling how Shaylyn would open and close her small hands, grasping for attention.

[...]

I find taking a hammer to a crib totally and disposing of her toys and personal items unexpected.


Reports are that the baby was strangled. Grasping elicits too much imagery for me.

Nic said...

Peter, yes, he was in the house drinking with one of the sons (Adam, Justin (the father's) brother) the night she went missing.

R: Well where was Kyle?

A: Kyle was in my room, sitting in the chair drinking, and talking to people on his phone I guess cuz I heard the tick, tick, tick, of texting. And uh, at uh, roughly 3, 4 o'clock in the morning I heard the front door open and I look out my window and was walking down the yard to his car, I open my window, I yell out to him, Kyle, where are you going? Nn..He never answered me back. He just got in his car and took off.

R: Did you see Shaylyn at all?

A: No. I, I didn't see Shaylyn at all. I, dr,uh, but then of course I was sleepy, I had sleepy eyes, I was, I had alcohol in me and my vision was all messed up.

R: What do you, I know we don't like to speculate, the autopsy is not even done, what do you guys feel his role is in this or what he did?

A: No. (Justin overtalks, no we have..) Adam interrupts, talks over and louder than Justin, "No, we have no idea what he did." We just, we wanna find out.

J: We want answers. I wanna know why this man come in my house, and did what he did with her. I really wanna know, this...(reporter interrupts)

R: He was a friend right, a family friend?

A: He was a, he was mo, he was more of an acquaintance.

R: And you had just hung out a couple of times?

A: We, we just hung out couple times, he, he, he was, he was a very nice guy. Not uptight, nnn, just a real, decent nice guy. He..(reporter interrupts)

R: Just hanging out

A: Just hanging out.

lynda said...

OMG...that poor little girl. New interview was posted with father, uncle and grandma and I can only say that it is extremely bizarre. Why would he think is was going to be an unsolved mystery when an arrest had been made?? Nobody works but they all have cell phones, booze, cigarettes,pay for DISH? What the hell is going on with this family?? A hammer?? Really??

New interview with the family.

~snip

Adam said the family just can’t figure out why the tragedy happened.

Justin said he believes the case will be an ‘unsolved mystery.’

“We just can’t think of why anybody would hurt a beautiful baby girl, she was absolutely gorgeous and so happy,” Tamera said. “She was just here so much, I mean I pretty much took care of her since birth, anytime mom and dad would need time away, before she started coming here to stay, I had her.”

Tamera said at least the family has closure after police discovered Shaylyn’s remains.

“At least we did find out that they found her with her clothes on,” she said. “She’s already in heaven, so that’s taken care of.”

She said none of the family members have jobs, with little else to do but sit and think about the tragedy.

“We don’t really have anything to do. Now we’ll just sit here. We have the funeral to do and then we’ll get back to our lives as best as we can, what we have to get back to,” Tamera said.

Few signs of Shaylyn remained the day after law enforcement removed police tape and barricades, allowing the family to return to their home. An unopened box of diapers sat on the kitchen table and a half-dozen framed photos sat on shelves. The family returned home to find an angel statue and a stuffed animal in memory of Shaylyn on their doorstep.

“I know you don’t see much of anything baby around, but I just had to get it out of here. Her baby bed was in that corner,” Tamera said, pointing to the southwest corner of the family’s living room. “Me and my son took a hammer to it this morning and demolished it. (Saturday) night I gave her riding toys to my nephew for his little girl and then this morning we got up and took all of her toys, clothes and stuff out.”


More at link:
http://www.spencereveningworld.com/n..._Went_Mis.html

Nic said...

Speaking for myself, I'm hard pressed to believe that Kyle Parker is the only one guilty of anything associated with Shaylyn and/or has been arrested in this case. I admit I am just a novice student of Statement Analysis and I can expect and accept to be wrong a lot of the time. In this case, I am truly gob smacked that this is the only arrest.



Nic said...

Lynda,

Hammer to dismantle a murdered baby's crib - totally unexpected.
Immediate disposal of anything near and dear to the baby. Totally unexpected.
Disposal of clothes. Totally unexpected.

There are no words.

lynda said...

Peter...what are your thoughts on the above. SA looks for the unexpected which to most of us this fits that bill.

Also, why wouldn't LE have taken the crib as evidence? Don't you think there could be a wealth of DNA/physical/forensic evidence from that crib? Unless Kyle was wearing a haz-mat suit, he left evidence in that crib. What if there was NO evidence in that crib of Kyle's person? No fingerprints, no skin cells, no hair, etc...wouldn't that prove that he did NOT remove her from his crib? Someone else did and gave her to him? I just don't get it. Now the family has destroyed the crib? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they burned it in the backyard burn barrel if they have one.

lynda said...

This article is graphic and disturbing but contains Kyle's confession, tho it is told by someone else. I would be interested to see the transcription or tape from his interrogation.

http://www.wthr.com/story/31576523/new-details-possible-monday-in-shaylyn-ammerman-investigation

So Disgusted said...

Grandma says they found her with her clothes on, but that news article says the clothes were burned in a pile right next to her body.

Wonder how many more children he's victimized.

Nic said...

Adam Ammerman told police that he saw Kyle Parker leaving the house between 3:00 and 4:00 am. Adam saw that Parker was carrying something. Adam told investigators he yelled to say good-bye to Parker, but Parker would not turn around. Adam said he thought he saw a foot dangling from Parker's side but wasn't sure. He went back to bed at that point.

Re foot. This is new. Of all the times Adam Ammerman told his story, he never mentioned thinking he saw Shaylyn's foot dangling from Parker's side. Shaylyn's foot is a pretty significant detail to leave out.

http://www.wthr.com/story/31576523/new-details-possible-monday-in-shaylyn-ammerman-investigation

Anonymous said...

This entire family on the dad's side is messed up. What person, after losing a child, immediately gets rid of everything that belonged to the child. Trying to hide something? They can't even keep their stories straight.

foodiefoodnerd said...

Quoting lynda:
"I just don't get it. Now the family has destroyed the crib? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they burned it in the backyard burn barrel if they have one."
~~~~
lynda (and Nic, speculating on additional arrests): What is truly despicable about these feces stain pedophiles is they have exchanges -- web sites, groups, etc. -- to trade their own children, or video of them, with other feces stains whose children are in the preferred age range, gender, etc.

Don't be surprised if this turd bucket craps out some other names, whoever set him up with poor Shaylyn's so-called father and grandmother, and the roles those two played in her death and with other victims.

There us mo fixing garbage like this; once proven beyond a reasonable doubt, harvest any useable blood, skin and organs (maybe under mild anesthesia if he can afford it), then a bullet to the head.

foodiefoodnerd said...

Quoting Nic:
"Adam said he thought he saw a foot dangling from Parker's side but wasn't sure. He went back to bed at that point."
~~~~

Are these pinheads related to DeOrr and Jessica??

Days later it magically bursts through his subconscious that he "thought he saw a foot dangling" from the arms of the pedophile child killer carrying his niece? WTF-ityF?!?
Not the brightest pencils in the shed, that's well proven.

If you told this imbecile or JM that a trail of mini marshmallows led to a suspect with cavities holding the murder weapon, they would instantly "recall" and describe in detail the pervert in the battered, windowless van crammed with cases of mini marshmallows, wincing and buying toothache gel.

Anonymous said...

It almost seems like ruining a child's innocence is a rite of passage for these people.

tania cadogan said...

“I know you don’t see much of anything baby around, but I just had to get it out of here. Her baby bed was in that corner,” Tamera said, pointing to the southwest corner of the family’s living room. “Me and my son took a hammer to it this morning and demolished it. (Saturday) night I gave her riding toys to my nephew for his little girl and then this morning we got up and took all of her toys, clothes and stuff out.”

This is shocking and unexpected.

Would not the crib be regarded as evidence?
At the least they would be looking to see what was in there forensic wise, DNA, hairs, fibres, body fluids, even alcohol or drugs and such like.

Why would a parent get rid of everything that reminded them of their dead child?
parental instinct, more so with women, would be to keep something that smelled of their child, a favorite blanket or toy.
Her first pair of shoes, a favorite item of clothing.

Why would they destroy her crib?
Why not donate it to someone?
Why not give it to the bio mom and let her decide what to do with it?
The same for the toys.
What about the clothing?

Why did she feel the need to get it out of there?
Was there something in the crib that could be incriminating?
If kyle was the only one involved, would they have a need to erase Shaylyn from the face of the earth this early in the case?

When something is done, it is done for a reason.
What is their reason for erasing Shaylyn's existence?

lynda said...

Shaylan's Dad has history of sexual crimes on underage girls. Record shows criminal sexual assault/underage.

I have a feeling molestation/underage girls/kiddie porn, are standard fare for this whole group. Mom of Shaylan states herself on FB that dad did not want court ordered visitation because that would force him to pay support. Mom HAD to have known history of dad. She voluntarily let her daughter go there. There is no court order. I don't know what's going on here but so far, no ones story is the same! This poor baby died horrifically. Ugh

Hey Jude said...

Catching up - it is awful to learn that the poor baby was raped.

J: I, I was up this morning, I went over there to the baby bed, looked in, seen Shaylyn not there. I ran in there and al, almost knocked my mom's door down.

--

How Could Justin have 'seen Shaylyn not there' - you can only see what is there, not what isn't there. It could be poor language - or he may have seen Shaylyn dead - 'not there', as people say when the life has gone from a person. Not there any more - only the body remains.

---

How evil and sad. It is to be hoped the baby died before she was subjected to that, rather than because of it. Sick b*sta*rds either way.

I also am surprised the cot and baby's belongings were not taken as evidence. It's not expected to dispose of, much less to destroy a dead baby or child's belongings.

Seven years on, I still have most of my late daughter's belongings - it's what remains, things she liked, things I can't often barely look at. I have a friend who lost a baby son thirty years ago - she still has a case with his toys and clothes. Her mother asked, 'Why do you do it to yourself?' It's not something parents 'do' to themselves - it's natural, holding on to the connections, things they liked, held used, wore.

To dispose of everything, and to violently destroy 'the baby bed' - what is that?

Destroying evidence, most likely.

Gypsies are an exception to keeping belongings, along with some religious orders - when a person dies all their belongings are burned, also, with gypsies, their dwelling place - at least in the case of the old-fashioned gypsies who live/d in caravans.

tania cadogan said...

J: I, I was up this morning, I went over there to the baby bed, looked in, seen Shaylyn not there. I ran in there and al, almost knocked my mom's door down

Why the panic?
Shaylyn is not in her crib, the assumption would be that the grandmother had got the baby with her rather than anything else.

It smacks of the perfect emotion in the perfect place.
He reacts to something he doesn't know has happened yet.

There would be no need to run to his mother's room, no need to do anything since the first thought would be she is with her grandmother, She is sleeping or having morning cuddles with grandma, she is playing somewhere.

What would not be the first thought on seeing the baby was not in her crib, was she has been abducted!

The only reason there would be for his initial response would be if he knew that there was a risk to his daughter, that someone already in the house, be it family or friends was likely to have done something to his daughter.
Was this due to knowledge of previous criminal history, threats having been made or something else that would cause him to shout abduction straight away?

Given her age, it was likely he knew that someone in his house had a sexual interest in young children.
Since he makes no mention of family members it points to friends which is where kyle comes in.

Now, if he knew kyle had a previous history (sex crimes are difficult to keep secret), if he knew kyle had shown an interest in Shaylyn, he had perhaps made inappropriate comments regarding Shaylyn, why would he leave his baby daughter sleeping in the living room whilst there was a sexual predator in the house?

Why would the grandmother leave Shaylyn sleeping in the living room?
Did the grandmother know or suspect something wasn't right with kyle?

Was she told that kyle was ok, he was a friend?
Did she know if he had a history of sex crimes?
If she did, why was allowed to sleepover whilst her granddaughter slept in the living room?
If she didn't, why the unexpected behavior on learning Shaylyn's body had been found?

Drugs are a big part in this family.
Was it 'favors' for drugs?
Was it 'favors' for money?

What part in this horrendous crime do her father,grandmother and other family members play?

Rella said...

Tania-

I completely understand where you're coming from about his immediate freak out. On the other hand, I understand where he is coming from also. On 2 seperate occasions, years apart, 2 of my children moved from their bed to the couch, and I was not aware of this. They were older too, between 10-12. When I went to wake them, noth times, and they weren't there, I immediately freaked out. I was very panicked. They weren't where they were supposed to, and my mind didn't think "oh maybe they're on the couch siblings room, or anything of the sort. It was immediate freak out.

lynda said...

Tania said

J: I, I was up this morning, I went over there to the baby bed, looked in, seen Shaylyn not there. I ran in there and al, almost knocked my mom's door down

Why the panic?
Shaylyn is not in her crib, the assumption would be that the grandmother had got the baby with her rather than anything else

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I completely agree and thought that first thing also. Why from 0-100 in a flash? Not to mention this is a completely different story than he recorded previously. There was no panic, and if I'm not mistaken, one story was from grandma who said she found her "gone". Dad himself has been arrested for sex crime w underage...disgusting. The complete destroying of toys and crib is SO unexpected one has no other thought than they were destroying evidence..and LE let them!!

Anonymous said...

http://fox59.com/2016/03/28/family-witness-stunned-at-graphic-details-in-shaylyn-ammerman-case/

Anonymous said...

"The doctor who examined Shaylyn after her death called it the worst case of sexual trauma she had ever seen."

-from above linked article.

just Jen said...

This entire family comes across as wrong to me. Their words and actions are so foreign, I honestly, cannot get my mind around the whole situation. The two things that stick out the most are the crazy uncle who saw a foot and went back to sleep and the bazaar grandma and dad destroying her crib and erasing her existence.

Almost twenty years ago, my family came to England to visit me for the first time. I'm from the states, Indiana specifically. When I got home from dropping everyone off at the airport, I ran upstairs to lay in the bed my mom had used on her visit. I needed to smell her, embrace the pillow she layed on. I was twenty-three and had been with her just two hours before, but I needed that comfort. Unfortunately, my very efficient mother-in-law, had stripped all the beds and done laundry. I was devastated.

I cannot come up with one sane reason why this precious child's bed was destroyed. I hold tight to the words of the police at the beginning of this horrible case that there is more work to be done and the one arrest was not the end. I hope everyone in that house of horrors is investigated and prosecuted.

Anonymous said...

just Jen, I appreciate your feelings on that, but I don't think it necessarily means anything more than just people reacting to a horrifying event. Once someone is dead, they're dead. What we do with their things, or even what we do with their body, amounts to nothing. It's what we do when the person is alive that counts. People react strangely when someone dies. My mom tore down my dad's room after he died, even tho I wanted to keep it untouched. I don't think we should judge people for destroying stuff after someone died - - the actual Thing Of Value is gone, so let's go ahead and let them destroy whatever they want.

Hey Jude said...

Anon - my mother did that when my father died - they didn't get along, I only have some of his things because I rescued them on their way out through the door. We are all different - I think what we do with a person's belongings may say something about the relationship - or maybe not, if tastes vastly differed, or if someone else's stuff just seems like unnecessary clutter.

Maybe, when a child dies, some parents do need to destroy or dispose of everything for the sake of their sanity, I don't know, except that to dispose of or to destroy everything is not what is 'expected' - at least, most posters who have expressed an opinion find it unexpected, particularly the destruction of the baby's bed.

My first thought was that they were destroying evidence, the second that maybe the family has gypsie roots, in which case they would not want to keep the belongings, and their actions would not be unexpected within that tradition and culture. I don't know if 'normal' or expected reactions with regard to the baby's things would become the unexpected because she was murdered - the family might, due to their responsibility in allowing a perpetrator into the home, find it too painful and guilt-inducing to have reminders of her presence around.

---

In suggesting they might have gypsie roots, I'm not saying they live like gypsies, or that gypsies live like them - I don't know any gypsies, only that by tradition, gypsies prefer to burn a dead person's belongings.

Some judgements are useful, as in observations on lifestyle, character, relationships, language, education, mental health - etc I think it's moralising about suspects and how they live which is a bit pointless. Observation is conducive to objectivity - passing judgement less so, How someone should live, what should happen to a suspect, etc, has no bearing on how that person does live, the rule of law, or the justice system. My two pennies, though I do concede that some of the rants are worth not missing.







Nic said...

I've been reading about Shaylyn's case this morning, more so the commentary area because sometimes locals will post. I clicked onto "People" and came across this in the comment section.

http://www.people.com/article/grandmother-discusses-murder-of-shaylyn-ammerman


They were so distraught they went to wal-mart to return the baby's clothes, unused diapers and other things.
• Reply•Share ›
Avatar

Cheebs andy • 11 hours ago
Funeral expenses.. maybe.. I'm trying very hard to give them some credit.
• Reply•Share ›
Avatar

KRK Cheebs • 11 hours ago
Nope. The funeral home is covering the cost of the funeral. They're just trash.
• Reply•Share ›
Avatar

_______________

I did some cursory research to find out if you can go back and investigate what was being watched via satellite. I'm curious to know what it was they were watching and having a good 'ol time about.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/josephsteinberg/2014/01/27/these-devices-may-be-spying-on-you-even-in-your-own-home/#20114d446376

Your DVR/Cable-Box/Satellite-TV Receiver

Providers of television programming can easily track what you are watching or recording, and can leverage that information to target advertisements more efficiently. Depending on service agreements, providers could potentially even sell this type of information to others, and, of course, they are likely to furnish this information to the government if so instructed.


________________

The grandmother and the uncle were very clear about the father, whose 2012 mugshot came about because of his alleged sexual assault of a minor, was no where near Shaylyn. The grandmother was clear that she took care of Shaylyn. They couldn't have be more clear about the dad not "messing" or "bothering" with the baby. The father was very clear that he was not "over there" or "in there" (the brother's room). That Adam was in Adams bedroom all by himself, where they had been watching a movie and "having a good 'ol time" earlier (paraphrasing, I'm too lazy to go digging for the proper quote).

Nobody knew what befell Shaylyn when they were "defending" the father in interviews. IMy hinky meter has always pinged about defending behaviour (we now know,) was known to the family to exhibit, yet nobody knew about Adams proclivity, let alone that that is what happened to Shaylyn. Why defend the unknown with the known unless they knew.
______________

Kelly Rogers, who no longer lives there, and friend arriving at 4:00 is bizarre, unless they were driving by and saw the lights on and went in to socialize with whomever was awake. But by everyone's account, everyone was either asleep or passed out drunk (Adam).

_______________

They are considering two things regards the death penalty. Note the order.

Prosecutors likely will consider two major questions, though, said Crawford, who has been involved with 25 death penalty cases.

Can Owen County afford to bring a death penalty case? And was Kyle Parker mentally ill when he, prosecutors allege, raped and killed Shaylyn?


http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2016/03/29/could-suspect-shaylyns-murder-face-death-penalty/82376996/

Nic said...

***That Kyle was in Adam's room.

Anonymous said...

Nic said:

"They are considering two things regards the death penalty. Note the order.

Prosecutors likely will consider two major questions, though, said Crawford, who has been involved with 25 death penalty cases.

Can Owen County afford to bring a death penalty case? And was Kyle Parker mentally ill when he, prosecutors allege, raped and killed Shaylyn?

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2016/03/29/could-suspect-shaylyns-murder-face-death-penalty/82376996/"


......


Why should we note the order? What's the significance? That quote is from a local attorney who is not involved in the case and is just giving his opinion about death penalty cases. He said the prosecution would LIKELY consider these things ... they haven't even said if they're going for the death penalty yet.

Nic said...

Annonymous said:
Why should we note the order? What's the significance?



Mental illness if found, aside, the significance is that [they] most likely will not fully prosecute Kyle Parker because of cost.

Anonymous said...

.... According to an attorney who is not involved in the case.

Maybe as a former prosecutor from a different county, cost would be the first thing on HIS mind, but you're trying to SA his statements and apply it to what prosecutors in Shaylyn's case are considering.

I'm sure cost is always a consideration, but, again, we're talking about the opinion of an expert not involved in Shaylyn's case.

Nic said...

you're trying to SA his statements and apply it to what prosecutors in Shaylyn's case are considering.

I am SA'ing his statement. :0)

Not "are" considering," might be" considering.

No he is not working the case. The article is very clear that he is being asked to provide his "expert" opinion and I understand this to mean he is not working on the case.

I find his opinion interesting in that if Indiana doesn't have a lot of money, they likely will not pursue the DP. He justifies this notion by pointing out that there are already 12 inmates on death row and the state splits the cost with the country. Is it unreasonable to conclude that a state with the death penalty, considers the DP justice? What would be the general reaction if the defence team chooses to plea bargain the list of crimes against Parker? Would they consider a plea bargain "justice" for Shaylyn?

My opinion is that the general consensus would be negative to a plea bargain.




Nic said...

http://www.wthr.com/story/31576523/kyle-parker-charged-with-rape-murder-child-molestation-in-shaylyn-ammerman-case

In the probable cause, Parker told authorities where they could find Shaylyn's body but never admitted guilt. In fact, he implied he was not the only one involved. Parker is the only person charged in the case at this point.

"I don't think I want to comment on that at this point," Vandermoere declared.

The most stunning observation came when Vandermoere was asked if after interviewing Parker if he was able to come up with a motive for such a horrendous crime.

"Self gratification," he stated.

Nic said...

^^ I'm bumping this brief conversation over from a different thread. Elf had a question in line with what is being reported (on-going investigation). I'm heartened to have read the above-linked article.

elf said...
Question :
(Regarding Shaylyn Ammernan case)
Shaylyn's father and grandmothers statements were full of red flags and inconsistencies and they've (the paternal side of her family) have been cleared with father and uncle passing polygraph's and the killer making a confession that he did it all alone. I guess my question is, do you think the red flags were due to the father suspecting it was his brothers friend? And what about the grandmothers timeline inconsistencies?


I've read that the uncle passed his polygraph. I've noted no one has come out and said that the father passed his. Just that he was polygraphed.

At first Kyle Parker said that Adam was with him when they disposed of Shaylyn. The FBI (?) told him Adam passed his polygraph. Hearing this, he said he acted alone, that that's when he said he raped Shaylyn and disposed of her. They said that Adam Parker confessed to his step-dad that "they will know who did it" when they conduct a DNA test (if any survived from being bleached away). I don't know if that means he was only talking about himself.

In my opinion, the timeline doesn’t jive for the amount of work involved in abducting a live Shaylyn: IMO, the amount of abuse they say inflicted was too severe for it to happen while he pulled over before en driving to the isolated location to dispose of her body… and build a campfire to destroy evidence. Did he have bleach in his car, too, or did he take it from the Ammerman home? Is there any one on public record that he stopped for groceries? Where did the bleach come from? Does Kyle Parker smoke? (Lighter with which to build the fire?) Once that was all taken care of, he then drove out of the woods to someone else’s home in town, arrived at 3:30, then proceeded to to clean his car, do (his friend’s) laundry and shower.

I watched a) interview this morning given by the woman whose garage he parked in. She said he drove into her garage and parked around 3:30AM. Adam said he left between 3:00 and 4:00. Kelly Roger and friend arrived to the house at 4:00 and (I’m assuming) Kyle had already left. Obviously someone was up as I find it hard to believe that anyone would “drop in” to someone’s house if everyone was asleep or passed out drunk (Adam).

http://fox59.com/2016/03/28/family-witness-stunned-at-graphic-details-in-shaylyn-ammerman-case/


There are so many inconsistencies, I really can't help but think that LE has purposely not made more arrests for a reason. I can't reconcile the fact that the investigation into Shaylyn's abuse and death, stops with Kyle Adams.

Leslie Archer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.