Tuesday, April 5, 2016

Melania Trump Statement

The inadvertent release of information is simply a polarity of thoughts that intertwine. 

I am guilty of A, but I speak of B because if I speak of A, there will be consequences. 

While I speak of B, what am I thinking about?

My thoughts are with A; that which I must avoid while I speak freely of B. 

Because I am thinking of A, while I am speaking of B, and words flow from the brain processing, these two parallel thought patterns sometimes blend. 

Recall the case of missing baby Ayla Reynolds when the deceptive father, Justin DiPietro sought words to defend himself against the allegation that he was not assisting police efforts to recover the child he, himself, had reported kidnapped.  

Ayla is "A" for DiPietro. 

"B" is the allegation that he is not cooperating.  

These are two separate thoughts. 

He knows the truth:  Ayla was not kidnapped.  No one had entered that home, and the trail of blood led straight to him, with the volume of blood only confirming what analysis of DiPietro's own words revealed:  Ayla did not survive the Waterville home that dreadful night.  

Yet, DiPietro cannot reveal "A" due to the consequences.  Ayla had been a victim of abuse in his care before, including bruises, leg injuries and lastly, a broken arm of which he did not seek timely medical attention for. This, including her death that night, is his "A", that he must avoid.  He must address "B", the allegation of lack of cooperation.  

These two should be separate thoughts which have separate word, even though they are about the same topic.  They should run parallel and not intersect.  

Yet, the pressure upon the brain to avoid this form of 'leakage' of words, is stressful and challenging. 

"Contrary to rumors floating around out there, I have been cooperating with the Waterville Police" 

The word "with" between people shows distance.  The pronoun "I" and "Police" are separated by this word, "with", belying his own assertion.  Yet, we cannot say that the pronoun "I" could be no further from "Police" in this case because he prefaced his remark, showing us priority:

"Contrary to rumors floating around out there" suggests Ayla's remains, or Ayla's belongings (pajamas, etc) were dumped in water.  

This work is subjective. 

1.  The word "with" between "I" and "Police" indicates distance. 
2.  The word "floating" suggests possible water and something floating is on his mind and this should be explored in both the interview, and in searching the rivers that touch both Waterville and Portland.    

One is an "indication", which is strong, while the other is a "suggestion", that needs follow up in an investigation.  In analysis, these two are dealt with separately and an analysis should never confuse the language.  

The distancing language was because he was not cooperating with police and was given the chance to 'negotiate', via media, with the alleged kidnappers.  He refused and when shown a photo of the blood he had cleaned up, ran out of the station.  He did what he could to make sure Ayla was not found.  Thus, the distancing language regarding cooperation was used instead of, "The Waterville Police and I..." or something similar.

*When successful classification of leakage is noted, such as pajamas found at a river, the analyst is tempted to become more 'definitive' about leakage and profiling in general.  When taken to an extreme, we have Andrew Hodges work which says, without reference or principle:  "this means that" with its 'hit or miss' success.  Although I agree with some of his conclusions, the methodology can be used to assert and 'prove' anything means anything we wish.  In the barbaric violence of the Koran, the same is used today in stating it means something else.  Hermeneutics has principle to follow, which is why "backwards language" and extreme, unprincipled 'leakage' cannot withstand scientific scrutiny.  A talented and well trained therapist or other professional can have good success with this but only with plentiful contextual knowledge that must be affirmed by the facts of the case.  This is where Statement Analysis' work is compared to confessions and polygraph results.  

The words are not "subconscious" nor "secretive", though such terms sells books.  When principles are followed strongly, and information is gleaned from both the statement and the interview, the "suggestions" of profiling and 'leakage' are followed for affirmation or denial.  

The talented therapist who, week after week, is told how "cold" the weather is, may eventually seek to learn if the client is lonely.  Yet, to insist that "cold" is "lonely" is without discipline and allows for anyone to begin with a premise, and prove it through almost anything one says.  

Melania Trump made the following statement about Donald Trump which is given for both analysis and for the inadvertent revealing of information. 

What might this suggest, not about the actions of what Donald Trump will do, for this is plainly stated.  We seek something else. 

Our focus is upon the subject herself, and the words she chose to use.  

 What might this suggest about the subject's own experience?
If you were questioning her about possible abuse, how far back would you need to go?

If you began with "Tell me about yourself" and found her answer to begin in the here and now, such as, "I am a wife, mother and a businesswoman.  I am supporting my husband's campaign, and I believe..." (and so on). 

might you consider,

"What were you like growing up?"
True enough, this brings the subject to a much earlier time but it will still allow her to begin, in childhood, where her priority exists. Is it her first memories?  Or, does she begin at age 10?

Note the specific language, including numbers, while formulating a strategy of questions. 


"As you may know by now, when you attack him he will punch back 10 times harder. No matter who you are, a man or a woman, he treats everyone equal."



53 comments:

Anonymous said...

Do an analysis on Rafael "Ted" Cruz and his defensive statements on being "faithful" to his wife... Lots to look at there...

Vance Holmes said...

REPORTER: "But Senator, I’m sorry, this is a very serious question about your character. Will you just, if the answer is, ‘Yes, I’ve always been faithful to my wife,’ just say so, please?"

SENATOR CRUZ: "Sir, I recognize that you love going into the gutter. I’m going to give a very brief answer to your question, which is -- the National Enquirer story is complete garbage. It is total lies. It was planted by Donald Trump’s henchmen, and I don’t think the people of Wisconsin, or the people of America, have any interest in tabloid trash. I’m going to focus on the issues that matter for the American people."

In his Law Newz article, deception expert, Phil Houston notes the following: If the truth had been Cruz’s ally, it would have been so easy for him to respond at that point, "Yes, I have always been faithful to my wife." Yet he failed to do that.

http://lawnewz.com/politics/cia-experts-carly-fiorina-now-helping-cruz-deceive-public-on-alleged-infidelity/

Anonymous said...

http://www.statementanalysis.com/in-the-news/ted-cruz/

Been there said...

Peter, I picked up on the same thing (at least what I think you are implying about Melania's words). I immediately wondered if Melania had been abused (and specifically physically abused by Donald Trump). This may sound "crazy", but, additionally, as a woman who notices things like hair and make-up (superficial I know) I also noticed that Melania's hair had been styled deliberately to cover up the sides of her face as much as possible...it had been brushed forward causing the strands to actually separate and look somewhat messy to achieve this maximum coverage. Also the dress she was wearing was very odd...the sleeves were an odd length covering just past the elbows. I wonder if she may have been covering one or more actual bruises. As someone who was in a 15 year relationship where I was abused physically and mentally, I fear for Melania from hearing her talk about Donald punching back even women 10 times harder when he is challenged that Donald could be using HER as an emotional/physical punching bag when he is having setbacks in his political campaign, because that is what abusers do.

Anonymous said...

Trump is a mysogonist !

Anonymous said...

@ Anon, April 5, 2016 at 3:16 PM

It is my own personal opinion that Melania wore that dress (and similar outfits when appearing with Donald during campaign-related events) because she is trying to put out a more professional, "first lady" type of appearance. During the interview, she kept talking about her pet peeve of Donald is that he needs to act more presidential.

I understand what you saying, and there is a great possibility you could be right. I interpreted her recent style as trying to appear more "Mrs. Presidential", if you will.

-KC

Karen Andrews said...

@ Anonymous, read the statement analysis of the link you left! Something to consider since Ted Cruz is a Christian who knows the scriptures.... Jesus said, if you have lust in your heart for anyone God says that is adultery! Not saying that Ted Crux has not had a physical adulterous affair! In analysis can we consider how devout a person is to their faith?? Jesus said if you hate anyone God considers that murder! I hope allegations of affairs or an affair is not true! I pray that if it is true God reveal it quickly and let us get it over with!

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Just a few things:

As you..."- This is supposed to be a statement in defense of her husband. She uses the distancing term "you" 3 times in 2 sentences. I would expect more personal language, like "When Donald is attacked, he...".

"As you may know by now..."- She's conceding a point here, acknowledging (although somewhat unwillingly) that there have been previous (public)displays of anger/anger management issues.

"...when you attack him- Typically, the use of when and not "if" presupposes that "you" will attack him. Given Trump's well-publicized aggressive business style, contentious personality, and colorful personal life, this isn't too surprising.
Q: When who attacks him? Attacks him in what way? Have you ever attacked him? In what way? Why? Have you ever witnessed someone attacking him? Who? Why?

"...when you attack him, he will punch back- Note that he will not attack you back, but will punch (specific physically violent act). Note that "attack" is vague in nature and not necessarily linked to a physical attack, but punch is specific. Note she says punch "back", that the physical punch is in response to a first punch being thrown by someone else...inconsistent with the vague use of "attack".
What do you mean by punch? What does he punch? Has Trump ever punched a person to your knowledge? Have you seen him punch anyone? Any thing? Has he ever punched you?

"...when you attack him, he will punch back 10 times harder."- Ten times harder is significantly harder and seems to suggest a level of uncontrolled anger. This sounds like the language of domestic violence and control. The expression "10 times" can be used in exaggeration (i.e."He was 10 times bigger than me! [fear] or "My ____ [fish, bear, hunting catch of some nature] was 10 times the size of that one!" [bragging]).
Q: Ten times harder? How do you feel about that? Have you ever punched him? (If so, they Why?) Has he ever punched you? (If yes, then Why?) How do you know he punches back 10 times harder? Does Trump have a temper? Anger management issue? Has Trump ever been arrested? Has Trump been investigated for assault or battery? Have police ever been called to your home? Your hotel suite? His place of business? A restaurant when Trump was dining?

"No matter who you are, a man or a woman, he treats everyone equal."- Note men are listed first as attackers, then women. Note that "...he treats everyone equal" relates to punching back, 10 times harder.
Q: Has Trump ever punched a woman? Who? Why? Has Trump ever punched you? Do you have a prenuptial agreement?

Been there said...

Great insights. Melania's statement is alarming and made me sick to my stomach. I am glad Peter caught it. Melania is mainly a stay at home Mom...how isolated she may be in that gold plated apartment. Notice she never goes anywhere with Donald...is this by her own choice? She seems isolated. Sadly, if she ever escapes him...PTSD will set in...severe insomnia and frequent nightmares from having been a hostage and punching bag. I believe he physically harms her, having lived through abuse. He has the initial charm of an abuser including sending one woman he was courting an entire PLANE full of roses. Melania is an absolutely beautiful woman...I doubt she CHOOSES to just hide away in the gold-plated apt.
To one of the posters above, her dress could be to look more Presidential...the hair I found more suspicious the way it was combed forward unnaturally.

Been there said...

Also, and I tell you this from experience, the increased power Donald is getting, could be causing a marked increase/escalation in the abuse.

Been there said...

"He will punch back 10 times harder" imlies the one who "attacks" trump is 10 times weaker physically.

Anonymous said...

Why is WITH distant again? That one is weird to me because when you're WITH someone aren't you together, like on the same page?

"Where'd you go?"
"I went to the movies."
"By yourself?"
"No, I went WITH my hubby."

Do you see what I mean?

Anonymous said...

Melania's english is limited. I don't think anything is up with her statement. She might even be repeating how she's heard other people talking about her husband.

Anonymous said...

I don't get abused or isolated vibes from Melania at all. She's got her own businesses, jewellery I think, and I'm sure all those visits to the salons and spas, shopping and such, keeps her busy as well as looking after her son.

Anonymous said...

She was speaking metaphorically about punching back. As for the hair and dress, it's fashionable.
Is it possible that you are projecting because of your own experience with physical and mental abuse?
I think Trump is an asshole. But I don't think he is hurting his wife.

Hey Jude said...

I liked the bit where Donald Trump said he didn't know what Melania was going to say in her speech. I can't imagine he didn't know what she was meant to say, so if she went off script, I hope there wasn't trouble when they got home.

I found what she said alarming - she used the language of violence, though there are other ways to communicate that he stands his ground.

'When you attack' - a given that you, or she does, 'attack him'. I would think she is routinely accused of attacking him, and that he views any hint of criticism or negativity as an attack to which he responds explosively. I would think he is verbally violent as routine, and she has been conditioned to consider herself to be his antagonist - thus 'when you attack' - it is her fault, she provoked him. No-one is likely to physically attack someone they know is going to punch back ten times harder.

'He treats everyone equal' - he treats everyone with the same contempt. To say someone treats everyone equally is usually a positive, but given the preceding sentence, it suggests that he abuses everyone.

The only reason I can think why she might have used 'punch' without it having to indicate there is also physical abuse, is his sensitivity about his 'small hands' - she could have been trying to affirm to him that she, at least, considers him to have big strong hands. Also, English is her second language, so she might no get there is a big difference between the phrase 'hit back'' frequently used in response to verbal attacks, and 'punch back' which is always (I think) what it is.

Anonymous said...

What if he said "I'm not going to dignify that question with a response."? It is the National Enquirer after all.

Anonymous said...

Also, Melania is very fashionable and that style of dress is in right now.
I think Melania is embarassed about some of Trump's unpresidential behavior, but she's not going to come out and say it.

Been there said...

Anons,

I don't think I am projecting. Once you have lived through the situation it just becomes easier to recognize. Her comment about him "punching back ten times harder" alarmed me more than any statement I have ever read on here.
I did some quick research on google after commenting here and I found that Ivana Trump has said that Donald pulled out handfulls of her hair in anger and then raped her.

It is strange because when I was watching the video of Melania making the statement, I kept thinking her hair looked odd, that it looked like it was combed strangely. Possibly he pulled some of it out?

Been there said...

I will tell you what is probably going on in his head right now:

Anger directed towards Melania when he is harshly criticized for different remarks he makes that set back his campaign.
Anger towards her for criticism he is receiving for her her previous racy modelling pictures.
He is probably PETRIFIED that when he becomes President, and she becomes first lady, he will no longer be able to hide her away as a prized possession. She will be travelling the world, entertaining all kinds of important people in the White House,etc. She will have many men who find her attractive and he is terrified of this fact. He may gain the presidency but he will lose control of her. Right now, he has her hidden away in a gold-plated penthouse with Baron.
As his ego swells from all of his fans and supporters and as he becomes intoxicated with his increased power, (keep in mind he has said things like he could shoot someone in the middle of New York and not lose supporters) he could very likely begin assaulting her in dangerous ways or to dangerous degrees.
In short, I believe she is at serious risk due to his language leakage as well as the other factors I have listed.
Also, very good analysis Foolsfeedon Folly and Hey Jude.

Anonymous said...

I just googled to find out more about Trump's behavior with his ex-wife Ivana and I'm shocked and sickened. Now I understand where you are coming from.
Why haven't I heard about this before?! You'd think the media would be all over it given that he's running for president.

Nic said...

@ Been There...

3/4 sleeves are mid-life/conservative

Re "punch"

The true will set you free.

lynda said...

"As you may know by now, when you attack him he will punch back 10 times harder. No matter who you are, a man or a woman, he treats everyone equal."

I guess she would know. It seems apparent she has been a victim of his wrath. Everything about this statement makes me shudder. It reminds me of my ex who was an undercover police officer. He treated everyone equal also. Except his "equal" was with prejudice and hate. Man, woman, black, white, everyone was not trusted, everyone lied, everyone was less than him. I think Trump is very much like him.

Been there said...

Anon 11:01,

I had heard something probably 3 mos ago when Donald was riding high on his popularity wave, it was only one time one day I had seen a news blurb which said that Donald's ex-wife Ivana "felt he had been forceful during sex" (which is worded in a milder way than what I just read where he pulled handfulls of her hair out and then raped her) and then it just got dropped and I never heard anything about it again unlike what normally happens where the media will run with it and the story will get bigger and bigger. I didn't look into it, and never heard it mentioned again. I can't understand why the media did not run with this story, seems a President being accused of a very violent assault followed by rape would warrant a lot of airtime. It doesn't seem possible he could control the media so completely that he could have silenced the story, or could he? I'm sure he's pulling some kind of strings behind the scenes, silencing this one, bribing another, intimidating another...but I don't how the story got hushed. Maybe noone wanted to go up against him? Look how he treated Megyn Kelley for questioning him about calling women "fat pigs"...maybe people realized he would "punch bag a hundred times harder" if he was confronted about committing brutal assault and rape? It's disturbing.

Anonymous said...

If you were a student of statement analysis, or the Bible, you would understand that "out if the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." Out of the 20,000 words she could choose from her personal vocabulary, she chose words that intimate physical abuse. Even if it was to be perceived as a metaphor, why would she choose that image?

Hey Jude said...

Questions one could ask Melania in the hope of opening up conversation around possible domestic abuse:

How are things with you?
Are you happy with life - do you enjoy being a wife and mother?
Are there things you like to do together regularly as family?

If chatty, might also be able to ask:
What type of childhood did you have?
At home and school, were you more likely to be bullied, or to bully - or was bullying not a concern for you?
Were you encouraged to stand up for yourself, to defend yourself, physically? Did you attend self-defence or martial arts classes?
Did you fight physically with siblings or friends? If so, was it encouraged or discouraged by your parents?
Was there anything you would recognise as domestic violence, physical or emotional abuse between any members of the family in your childhood home? If so, was it rare or routine?
What is/was your father like -what sort of father was he while you were growing up?
As an adolescent, did you ever punch, kick or push over another person? (If yes, what was the reason?)


Might further be able to ask:

Has there been any violent physical altercation between you and your husband?
If so, how often?
Who starts it?
Who finishes it?
(if ongoing) Is it always the same person, or sometimes one, sometimes the other?


I'd ask those unsympathetic sounding questions because the exercise is to try to find out about her and any history of abuse rather than to be victim support. From her words she may possibly be both a perpetrator and a victim, therefore I'd be trying to find out if that was so, rather than viewing her only as the stereotypical victim, and slanting the questions only towards that possibility, and maybe missing some of what the bigger picture might be. - strong emphasis on 'might'.
'As you may know by now, when you attack him he will punch back 10 times harder. No matter who you are, a man or a woman, he treats everyone equal."

He responds to first being attacked - also, is she expressing dissatisfaction that unlike other men she has known and possibly punched, HE will punch a woman back. It's a big perhaps, but I'd want to try to find out if that's why she chose to say what she did - if maybe she was an over-indulged princess type girl, allowed to slap around any brothers or male cousins, then boyfriends, but then came up against the Donald, who didn't care who she was, she wasn't punching him without consequence. Sickening if she was being literal through what she thought would come across as only metaphorical.



Hey Jude said...

Been There said -

' .... the increased power Donald is getting, could be causing a marked increase/escalation in the abuse.'

Yes. I also agree with much of the rest of what you have said.

---

Nic - I'm devastated to learn I'm mid-life/conservative. Thanks for the info, though - I must chuck those dresses out. So glad I wear jeans most of the time.

---

Hi, Lynda - scary, isn't he? Such a bully. I wish I didn't like some of his turns of phrase quite so much, he's clever with his complimentary insults, which sometimes appeals to my sense of humour, sad to say.

Hey Jude said...

Did it come out like that because she feels trapped - was it maybe a cry for help leaking out? If she punched him, he would probably hardly notice. It is sickening to think he might punch her, even if she did punch him first.

Hey Jude said...

I shifted my thinking somewhat between my first post and the later one, yes - I'm not sure what to think. Hopefully Peter will help out as to the likelihood or unlikelihood of her also punching him.

Been there said...

Hey Jude, I think youre right that it was a cry for help. Did you watch the video? Check out what Donald says after she speaks...how she said she had written something she wanted to read at the rally, and he says he asked her "do you want me to read it?" and she said "No I'll read it."
I dont believe Melania punched him first and even if she had, her arms are TINY, he would hardly have felt anything. Abusers can view almost anything as an attack. Mine would often lash out for reasons unknown. But certainly any criticism was met with rage. Any failure to do something "perfectly", thinking thoughts he disagreed with. Our son being involved in activities...he would rage at me for that. He also considered not serving a vegetable with a meal one time n actual personal attack on him (unbeknownest to me until he simmered and raged and shouted that that meant I "thought he wasnt a good father?!).
I think if Donald has narcissistic personality which he seems to, Melania is at great risk bc the NPD only sees things from their own persoective, so if he wants something a certain way, even with his campaign, she should have read his mind and she should have made it happen.

Been there said...

Melania is very intelligent...she knows what was implied by 'he's fair...he treats everyone equal...man and woman...if you attack him he punches back 10 times harder". Think of how she NEVER goes anywhere with him...I never see pics of her out with friends, out to dinner w Donald or on a vacation...if she is in a hostage type situation...that was her chance to communicate w the outside world, and she took it even though Donald tried to "read it for her". I saw an interview w her where she was asked about being a stay at home Mom and does she do normal things with Baron since they are so wealthy, and she said one time she "pretended to go grocery shopping" with Baron to try to make things normal for Baron...reminds me of one of the Ariel Castro hostage girls who would "pretend" to take her son to school by setting up a pretend classroom in the hostage house.

Hey Jude said...

Been There - I watched Melania's speech, but somehow I remembered Donald Trump,saying he didn't know she was going to say that - I just watched it again, and that's not what he said - as you said, he asked her if she wanted him to read it. She said she didn,t want him to read it. From that I took that he had not read it ahead of her appearance, so he did not know what she was going to say. That doesn't mean he didn't read it just that she didn't want him to read it - not the same. He might have read it beforehand, or not. He may or may not have anticipated the punch bit - she could have as-libbed that bit in on the podium. I think he clenches his fist slightly round the time she says it. I'm going to watch the Hannity interview with Donald and Melania now, see if she says any other worrying sounding things.

Sympathies on your life with the NPD guy. I know what a nightmare are guys with NPD - it's like walking on egg-shells whenever they are around. They are utterly insensitive, yet hyper-sensitive when it comes to themselves. My. stomach began churning at reading your comments - it was as if you were raising the dead, though I don't think I'll need a therapist - we don't need snowflake trigger warnings round here. :)


Hey Jude said...

Hannity: Is there a side of him which maybe you think the public doesn't know, which you want them to know about him?

Melania: 'I think he's very kind. He has a great heart. He would not harm anybody, he would not harm women or men. He's really a great, great guy. Um, you know, beautiful heart, and he loves to help people.'

___

I don't know if the interview was before or after the 'punch' speech, but what Melania says is like a refutation of the 'punch' remark.

Hey Jude said...

Hannity: what advice, throughout this campaign, Melania, have you given your husband? What would you like him to have changed a little bit?

Melania: well, as we discussed before,what I said - Tweeting - and being more Presidential, and he has, uh, you know, great nights, and he can be Presidential, but sometimes, uh, just like, he cannot stand that somebody attacks him, because if somebody attacks him he will punch back ten times harder.

---
She says that again in her husband's presence - it does seem an odd thing to say, but as she said it twice, at different times, it would seem he must be okay with it, as he did not prevent her from repeating it.

After the Hannity interview I watched Melania here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbvGxDmD3dY&ebc=ANyPxKplGSj8OT_btke4w5FEsOD_WTim4lXNDouvWR178AmOBpw9OJ2Yb-lCnEVNIAEl1ZrkshYEN9nSloqYYZOIyAzIw_5qHA&nohtml5=False

Melania, comes across as lovely, self-possessed and very much her own woman - from the second interview I wouldn't have any reason to suspect she was unhappy or in an abusive relationship - I'd just think the Donald must adore her because she is so sweet, accomplished, intelligent and beautiful. Yet in the joint interview she seems tense and he seems a bit too much in her face, as though willing her not to speak out of turn - he doesn't allow her to say anything about who manages the household budget when asked, supposedly because they don't need to budget - it's odd he wouldn't let her speak at that point.

Been there said...

Hey Jude,

Great observations and I agree with all your points. I also noticed the slight clenching of the fists.

Melania: 'I think he's very kind. He has a great heart. He would not harm anybody, he would not harm women or men. He's really a great, great guy. Um, you know, beautiful heart, and he loves to help people.'

It's interesting bc the above is her response to Hannity asking about what he does in private (I found the question itself odd also). 2 notable things: Her response is sensitive bc it's in the negative "He would NOT do this...". Also she speaks of "harm" repeating the word twice. It's also like she is attempting to dodge the question of his private behavior however her "denial" of how he "would behave" is telling of what she is thinking about when asked about private behavior and that is "harm".
I agree w what you said...he should be thrilled to have such a remarkable woman...
I watched an interview w her talking to a woman...one response jumped out at me, and I am paraphrasing...she speaks of Donald being understanding if she needs "alone" time such as to take a bath for an hour. Something is odd about that response. Peter has talked about how DV victims often offer in open statements the info that they brushed their teeth, they took a shower bc they relish the "safe" time locked in the bathroom. Im curious what you think of the interview if you saw it.
I am also sorry that it sounds like you have experoence with an NPD...it is literally stomach churning...the walking on egg shells, the mind games, the smoke and mirrors (gaslighting)...9 months me and my son have been free...healing for me is happening slowly but surely...nice to talk to someone who understands but sorry you have experienced it...it is brutal dealing w the messed up mind of an NPD.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

You all have contributed lots of really thought-provoking points and questions! So many aspects that never occurred to me- thank you! I learn so many new things here every time...one of the things I like the most about Peter's site.

Hey Jude- You're question regarding Melania's father was particularly insightful as women tend to choose someone who is like their father or father figure (psychologists call it imprinting; girls tend to subconsciously choose what they are familiar with; can be really good or really bad).

I'd be alarmed if those phrases showed up in anyone's language, much less a Presidential candidate or his/her spouse or significant other. I guess that makes me an equal opportunity alarmist. LOL

To me, Melania's definition of "attack" is important here. Well, more accurately, her experience with Donald's perception of an "attack" or being attacked.

Nic- So, 3/4-sleeves signals a Conservative? Then the jokes on an extended family bohemian Bernie Sanders fan. LOL I imagine she'll be rushing to recycle a few outfits. She won't be too excited to find out she's mid-life either! Learning something new every day! ;)

Been there said...

Oh...the name of interview is "Melania Tells All"

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Been there @ 9:51 April 6, 2016

Your comment above struck a chord with me too. In looking at the "He would not harm anybody...", I heard Peter in the back of my head saying, "Order is important.". I'm bothered that she mentions women first, saying what Trump would not do. The expected, is "He would not harm anybody, man or woman [man, woman, or child]." because it's unthinkable that an honorable man would ever harm a woman (long-standing societal norm being women are physically weaker, more vulnerable, and needing protection). Yet, Melania is compelled to further define who Trump would NOT hurt and women are first in her mind. It's kind of a backward compliment. The fact that she feels the need to say it, point it out, is troubling. That tells me Trump has likely harmed at least one woman at some point and Melania is aware of that. It totally contradicts that he [Trump] treats everyone, men and women [who attack] him equally.

Hold up a sec! Nod to Peter here: What is Melania's definition of "harm/harming"? How does it differ from her definition of "attack" and "punch/punches"? So, if he was attacked, he would punch back ten times harder, man or woman...but he would not harm anybody, he would not harm women or men? Hmm, Food for thought.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Been There and Hey Jude- Having just dealt with an NPD family member today and being subjected to an extended family one this evening, I hear you and feel for you. Yes, I said dealt "with". LOL Their personal image is everything and they simply cannot stand to be wrong about anything in any way-even when they're caught in it, evidence and all. I'm just thankful that my immediate family members recognize them for what they are; we've had a lot of practice over the past 16 years. LOL

The irony(at least to us): When an NPD feels disrespected (not treated special enough, not being allowed to be the center of attention, etc.), they become so angry at "being disrespected" that they lose their self-control and create some of the biggest public scenes...with zero regard for their carefully cultivated image. We actually had an extended family member recently try to upstage a grieving family friend- she couldn't stand that our friend was getting attention in her grief. :0

Word to the wise: Someone told me that before you start collecting "strays" (befriending those who appear friendless), you need to find out why they're strays. NPD's don't just burn bridges, they nuke them.

Nic said...

@ Hey Jude, I heard it a long time ago. I am mid-life and I proudly admit that I love 3/4 sleeves. :0)

Anonymous said...

Been there, what do you make of Trump's relationship with Ivanka? He appears to favor her over his other three kids (I didn't even know he had TWO daughters!) and she seems to have a lot of affection for him.
I thought the only thing Trump had going for him is that he was/is a good dad, his kids seem to be completely loyal toward him and don't have a bad word to say about him. However, given what I have learned about him recently, especially here on SA, I am suspicious of his supposed great relationship with his kids, especially Ivanka.
What are your thoughts?

Anonymous said...

I can't stand Hannity, he's so...greasy. He asked Melania the same question twice, why? He's calculating, knows Melania comes across well with the crowd and tries to use her predictable comments about her husband (kind, generous, loves women (!), etc to soften the edges off a candidate that is abrasive and hard.
I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Been there said...

Anon 11:36 who asked what I think about Donald's relationship with Ivanka, I think it's troubling. He's made several comments about her that are inappropriate...something to the effect of he would go for her if she wasnt his daughter. Ive also seen a picture of the 2 of them where he appears to be posing with her as if he feels she is his "lover". It is probably confusing to her to be lavished with attention that while some is positive, is also mixed with negative, especially by such a powerful individual who is also her father. Id say his troubling comment about Ivanka indicates possessiveness, suggests poor respect for boundaries, and unfortunately also makes me wonder if he has ever, in any way, violated her boundaries.

Been there said...

Foolsfeedonfolly,

Great observation about the order and Melania saying he would not hurt "women" before she said "men" and especially as you pointed out, since that is not the natural way to phrase it ie. man, woman and child.
Im very sorry you are dealing with an NPD...I can relate to what you said anout them making public scenes as with your family member who was angry someone was getting attention for grieving!!! I dont know why they do this! It is when they are starting to become more desperate for attention in life in general. Mine (2 years before I broke up with him--he still makes my life hell sometimes), was raging at me in his car on the way to a restaurant, forced me to go into the restaurant (I did not want to go in bc he was raging), acted "normal" while we ordered water to drink, however when the waitress brought it, he picked up his glass of water which was in a big thick goblet-type glass and smashed it into the wall as hard as he could shattering it into a million pieces abd then walked out. His GOAL was to make a spectable in public bc he felt like noone cared about his "problems" (which he doesnt have any serious problems?!). Steer clear of these folks they are very toxic!!!

foodiefoodnerd said...

Foolsfeedonfolly, I'm so sorry your NPD is family, and harder to escape.
You hit it SO spot on about caution when collecting strays!

The severely disturbed neighbor here who latched on like grim death, in her late 60s had/has not one single friend, nor has she in the past for longer than six months.

Of her five children and their spouses, no children and only one in-law have anything to do with her, and that's out of pity.
She constantly complains about him, and prints volumes of articles about narcicism and borderline personality disorders she attributes to him!

Early in her latching on attempts with me, she broke down in a six-hour monologue about how every single family member, friend, employer and employee ever in her life had blindsided her, she gave "300 percent" while they gave her zero.

I tried to gently point out that in that entire loooong night, not one tiny fraction was her fault, and she'd never gotten a single millimeter back in return for endless extra miles.

She scream-sobbed, "YES! Exactly, that's it!"

Again, enormous sympathy to all of you trapped with one of these in your families or jobs!!

Been there's word "toxic" captures it so perfectly, these people's picture should accompany the word in the dictionary.

Hey Jude said...

Catching up....

Been There - Yes, it's not the expected way to approach the subject of her kind, good, great husband, as in what he wouldn't do - she might just as well as have said, 'He's a very kind man, he wouldn't strangle the cat or pull the wings off flies.'.

I found and watched the 'Melania Tells All' interview - thanks for that. Barron was only five then; it sounds as if he had only ever been taken to a supermarket once in his life - I suppose it is inevitable that their wealth is pretty isolating - they can't live in a gold plated mansion and do their own grocery shopping, not really, except occasionally as a novelty. Melania made me think of Princess Diana, lonely, socially isolated in her palace, concentrating on her sons, the busy absent husband. I noticed that she calls Barron 'my son', and when Donald introduced her in Wisconsin, he referred to him as 'her son, Barron' - rather than 'our son', though they were together. I don't get that. (I say 'our' a lot, when speaking of my kids - I am more likely to write 'my' - but I prefer 'our', as they are not only mine - though what Peter says on that is accurate in regards non-biological children; we have both biological and adopted, which is why I more frequently say 'our' - though I didn't know that was why I said it, and found it possessive or selfish of other parents to mostly say 'my' when speaking of their children, as though they were exclusively theirs. Now I know that is not the case.)

There is a contradiction between her saying they both do their own thing, that she is independent, she works from home, Donald works in his office all day, yet him being good about her taking an hour out for a bath - why would he even need to know? Does she need his permission to take a bath, or to leave Barron in a nanny's care while she does? An hour - and he is good about it, and knows about an hour, when they both 'do their own thing'? Maybe he calls her on the hour every hour - he's possibly quite possessive of her. I got the personal hygiene thing, too - perhaps all is not as well as it could be in the House of Trump. Also, I think she chooses her words cautiously - she doesn't want to say the wrong thing - that might be due to English not being her first language (she speaks five!) or because she is worried about speaking out of turn, and upsetting Donald. The punching remarks were a bit unexpected, and repeated - so strange, they surely had to have been spoken out of turn...

They maybe have a strange relationship and are content within it in their different ways - they speak of each other fondly, they appear to like one another - I don't know. Donald is the type of man whose word is his command - she would have known that when she married him - she may be happy enough, even if he is abusive at times. Difficult to imagine that he is not - yet his second wife speaks very fondly of him, and describes him as kind, caring and loving.

Hey Jude said...
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Hey Jude said...

Nic - I'm mid-life but in denial - I want a delete button for all the years I'd like to be able to edit out of life.

I'm not really going to chuck the dresses - I love 3/4, too - sleeveless I think is most flattering for the young, short sleeved I find too casual, long sleeved can be too much. Love is the wrong word - if I have to wear a dress, I like it to be 3/4 - I'd much rather be able to wear jeans everywhere and to everything, :)

Hey Jude said...

Anon - maybe it's too elementary. ;)

GeekRad said...

Melenia is repeating what Donald Trump has said and her English is limited. I find nothing alarming in her statement.

Hey Jude said...

Oh, did he say it first? I wasn't aware of that. Even so, she still chose to repeat that. Her English is fine, she just has a strong accent, in my opinion.

Saint Theresa said...

Omg way to jump to conclusions. This is the wrong way to statement analysis if you ask me.

Hey Jude said...

Well, if any of our approaches are very wrong, it's maybe interesting for Peter to have new 'how not to do it' for examples - he'd probably find it boring to only have the same few to tear apart. IMO.