Monday, April 25, 2016

Nicole Mittendorf Suicide and DeOrr Kunz

We all love to read analysis before the news and see how accurate the analysis was when the story breaks.  It is also useful for instruction to review stories and look back upon the wording to facilitate learning.

Consider the Mittendorf case alongside the case of DeOrr Kunz.  

The husband of Nicole used distancing language from his wife.

DeOrr and wife used distancing language.  

The husband of Nicole praised police while they had failed to find her.

DeOrr praised officials who failed to find his son.  

The husband of Nicole asked for prayer for her family and the searchers.  He did not show much concern for his wife.  

DeOrr spoke at length overly praising law enforcement while expressing no concern for his missing toddler.  

Both showed little or no concern, indicating knowledge of death.  In the husband's case, knowledge from law enforcement (he is LE) and knowledge of mental health issues can be what was behind these things. Context is key.  

In the case of Kunz, the distancing language combined with some specific deception indicators;  knowledge that the missing person was dead.  With Kunz' interview, deception jumps at the reader.  Those who saw deception in Mittendorf case were reading deception into it, rather than being guided by the statement.  

We note that the sensitivity of the husband appears to be the knowledge he held. 

The distancing language --bad marriage and possible acute depression on her part is appropriately expressed, especially if she made it clear that she was not going to remain with him.  

The lack of prayer for her--knowledge of suicide suggests Protestant belief.  (Roman Catholics pray for the dead; Protestants do not) 

The praise of professional searchers---they are his co workers.  In Kunz, the praise of officials was in great detail, overshadowing everything else (in volume alone) he had to say, including about his son.  

The same things within DeOrr Kunz, yet in a different context and scope.  

I cautioned readers publicly and privately about their understanding specifically pointing to context.  I cited the "101 errors" and how the lack of formal training equates a lack of discipline in analysis. 

 I also cited the context of the Facebook page:  he was having comments read to him; he, himself, guided the context.  He praised "my department", taking ownership of it via the possessive pronoun.  The 'comments read to him' was so important, that he included it in his statement.  

He was a member of the department and his appreciation of them, as fellow laborers, is appropriate.  This was not, for example, someone with no attachment to law enforcement seeking to ingratiate himself upon them, as was the case of DeOrr.  DeOrr Kunz Sr's detail about the searchers, including the equipment, was something few parents would bother to remember or care about in light of a missing son.  It not only indicated "tangent necessary", it "ate up time on the clock" of the interview.  This was a control of pace that he felt necessary (he has solid intelligence and is someone familiar with deception) to avoid talking about his son.  

The prayer request in the Mittendorf case and distancing language strongly suggest that he had an idea that she was suicidal.  This is not the first case like this.

Recall the man who kept media attention high "searching" for his wife, while repeating signals of knowledge of her death. He knew she had committed suicide but while speaking to media, he withheld this and the sensitivity indicators were pronounced and picked up by many as he spoke.   He appeared to enjoy his '15 minutes' while he was deliberately withholding the fact that he knew she had gone out to commit suicide. He allowed criminal speculation to remain high.  It was manipulative on his part. 

This is not the case here.

Context is always key.

Over the past several years, I have been given insight by those for whom Statement Analysis was a hobby that they enjoyed, though with some frustration.  Each has, at some point within training, made clear that the formal training made a dramatic change in their viewpoint.  Some have specifically stated "disciplines" (in various forms) while others have addressed principle, complexity, and competing principles needing rectification.  

If you have any desire to move beyond hobbyist, especially those who have such drive to learn that their knowledge will assist them in a variety of employments, consider formal training.  There are several routes to take.   

Mark McClish's home course is very inexpensive and will start you on the introductory road of analysis.  

I routinely mention, praise and refer readers and seminar attendants to as well as  to Wesley Clark's training, and some books worth studying.  I'm not familiar with Welsey's specific course, but what I have read from him I like.  

Discipline is key.  

Once foundation is set, the work begins.  

It is a mixed blessing and here is why:

if you are in law enforcement, what you learn in a 2 day seminar can be immediately applied. 

This can be a great blessing. 

Yet, in this application, you must have an experienced guide and if you do not, your first error may be your last, as your department will lose confidence quickly. If you are working with a professional, and take the path of guided study and dedication, you will soon find other investigators seeking you out for assistance.  

I enjoy the following challenge:

When someone in law enforcement expresses doubt in the intense power of Statement Analysis, I ask him to write out a truthful statement about his most recent day off, and ask him to make it 1 place to 1 1/2 pages in length.  

My only requirement is that it is truth. 

I then inform the doubter that I will give to him (or her) the information he has revealed in his statement that he did not intend to release.  I add in that, "it will contain personal and possibly embarrassing information." 

Most decline the challenge.  When they do decline, I give a few samples that adequately impress upon him that he made a wise decision.  

This challenge has only been taken up a few times with each subject shocked at how much personal information was given.  


Anonymous said...

I was going to volunteer to write up and post a one-page statement about my most recent day off, but I chickened out.

Nic said...

Peter, could you blog about "excitable utterances". In the recent Bateman case, in the 911 call, the wife said, " "We're upstairs now, and he's trying to call everybody, trying to say I smacked him in the face."

There is truth.
There is reliable.
There is unreliable.
There is story telling.
There is deception.
There is lying.
Now there are excitable utterances, wherein (correct me if I'm wrong,) although we discount it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Anonymous said...

Nic, don't forget Freudian slips!

Hey Jude said...

Anon at 9.30 - ah, go on. :)

Nic said...

@Anonymous, at 11:18am

Yes, of course! Leakage! :0)

Anonymous said...

Story in today's news, with video of Davey Blackburn this past weekend describing the day he "walked in my house and found Amanda". You'll notice DB says he and Amanda, just prior to her murder, had discussed sensing "that we were about to walk into a season of pain". Link below:

Sarah Highcove said...

Also saw this today:

Davey says that he thought his wife had something go horribly wrong with the pregnancy and he wasn't aware that it was a robbery/shooting situation until later on.

Anonymous said...

Davey Blackburn is truly a candidate for the anti-Christ. God help us. And help poor little Weston!

Anonymous said...

Oh my gosh. He is not truly a candidate for the antiChrist. Have you even ready Scripture? He is nowhere close to the charismatic leader that the antiChrist will be. He is barely likable even to the people close to him

Anonymous said...

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Why does this so called "statement analysis" site gain credibility? Why does this site seek to benefit from the Deorr Kunz case? Yep, your motives are clear.

ima.grandma said...

Group thoughts on Chief Bower's latest statement re: Fairfax County Firefighter tragedy and scandal???

Chief Bowers says he is taking this investigation very seriously,

"If there is any nexus with any type of bullying-which I have zero tolerance for-in a physical nature, of bullying itself; or in the written nature; or the verbal nature of bullying, if you will-I will address that and eradicate that completely, if in fact it involves any members of our department".

ima.grandma said...

My apologies to the group. I forgot to include the link.

Anonymous said...


In a prior comment thread, you stated (I'm paraphrasing) that SA is invaluable in healthcare. Right now I am finishing my prerequisites while also working full time, then I start RN school next Spring. I have a long and intense road ahead of me, so I am dabbling in SA right now as a hobbyist until I have more time to devote to studying it. Can you recommend any books, websites, etc. that would be beneficial for me, in addition to this blog? FYI - I have already read every case analysis Mark McClish has posted on his website.


KC; RN_Student

Hey Jude said...

Davey's interview with Perry Noble is up here - forty-five minute video:

Jen said...

I watched the video with Davey at Perry Nobles church.
2 things stood out to me.
First, it's the first I've heard him mention that Amanda was 3 months pregnant.
Second, when Perry asked him about that day, he says he left the gym, came home, and found Amanda on the floor. Immediately he changes the subject to ramble on about something. He does not say she was bleeding, gasping for breath, he was frantic, nothing. He doesn't say he tried CPR. The omission of seeing a horrible sight in his house is telling, although I don't know what it's telling. it's almost as if he didn't see anything, because he doesn't describe anything.

And I watched him ramble for a bit, but he never got back to Amanda, so I lost interest.

Anonymous said...


April 26, 2016 at 9:54 AM

read your statement....It's quite entertaining (inserts irony)

Hey Jude said...

Perry Noble backtracks on his funeral claims about Davey, too - softens the edges a bit, at least.

C5H11ONO said...

Is there any way the "anonymous" post made to the Fairfax Underground forum posted about Nicole could be analyzed? Could it reveal anything about the poster?

Hey Jude said...

Questions about this blog post, possibly rhetorical:

Has Peter taken a day off his blog - if so, is he writing his day so we can analyse it?

Is Peter telling us to go away and learn some 101 SA, but not from him?


Note one: compound question
Note two: 'we' pronoun -hiding in crowd


John Mc Gowan said...

Anon at 9:54 AM.


would you care to elaborate on your passivity?

lynda said...

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch Crazy Davey. It's macabre. Like watching a train wreck. I pray for WEston.

Lis said...

There's a great opportunity for statement analysis in this interview with Saeed Abedini:

I have started on it and am seeing some red flags, I'd be so interested to see anyone else's conclusions.

Hey Jude said...

He's like a different Davey, Lynda - he doesn't shout or shoot at anyone the whole time. He must have spent all morning in the salon, too, by the looks of it. Weird how he's dressing like Amanda these days.

Lis said...

Why does this so called "statement analysis" site gain credibility? Why does this site seek to benefit from the Deorr Kunz case?

It's an opportunity to examine statements. If you look around here, you'll see that's what the site is all about. Stick around and learn something.

Lis said...

Seems like Davy underwent a makeover, he's got a new image.

Hey Jude said...

He's hiding behind the beard. Nice beard - it suits him, he just needs to work on the personality now.

Ah, not nice to say, no,

Hey Jude said...

Is it true? Maybe he is hiding. Yes, it suits him.
Is it kind? No
Is it necessary? No.

Similar to the 'ask yourself' before posting questions which were posted a while back - I forgot those, and who posted them. These are the questions I was taught and remember, yet too often ignore.

Skeptic said...

Anyone following the Missy Bevers case? Her husband posted a picture of a shower on his facebook. Now it's a picture, not a statement in words. But seems to me, it's even more significant that he chose to post that image a week after his wife brutally murdered and killer still on the loose.

Anonymous said...

interesting news story today...

Anonymous said...

John Mc Gowan said...


Kid Rock's Frantic 911 Call: 'I Need a F---ing Ambulance!"

Nashville police have released a 911 tape in which a frantic and frustrated Kid Rock is yelling at the dispatcher to send an ambulance after he discovers his assistant, Michael Sacha, 30, dead on his Nashville estate Monday morning after being in an ATV (All-terrain Vehicle) accident.

“I need an ambulance. I need an ambulance," Kid Rock says, according to an audio tape posted on the website of the newspaper, The Tennessean. "I think my assistant looks to be dead from a Polaris accident…I need an ambulance...Send the ambulance now!...There’s a body lying next to it... I need a fucking ambulance..send a goddamn ambulance now!" A Polaris is a brand name of the ATV.

The dispatcher calmly tells Kid Rock repeatedly that his phone is breaking up and she needs more information before dispatching an ambulance.

He yells at her.

"You yelling at me is not going to help the situation," the dispatcher says.

Sacha, 30, drove two people who attended a cookout on the property to the end of driveway on Kid Rock's estate so they could meet an Uber driver around midnight, according to WSMV-TV.

Around 11:30 a.m. the next day, Kid Rock and a friend went looking for Sacha and found his body, WSMV reports. Sacha apparently lost control of the vehicle while driving back to the residence, authorities say.

A woman who is with Kid Rock explains to the dispatcher:

"We were gonna drive to the airport and we couldn't find his assistance so we went to look for him. ...he appears to be dead. I don't know what happened...but we woke up, and he wasn’t in the house, so we came to look for him because it’s just not like him not to be up early. . . . Oh my God, can you just please send somebody. . . . He’s off to the side of the driveway."

John Mc Gowan said...

Full audio^^


Contains strong language!

Anonymous said...

I listened to the whole Kid Rock 911 call. Possibly the most inept dispatcher I have ever heard. It is absolutely mind-boggling to me that person has a job handling 911 calls. I could make a list of reasons I say that, and here's number 1: It isn't until the 3:12 moment in the call she says she has finally dispatched an ambulance.

John Mc Gowan said...

OT Update:

EXCLUSIVE: 'I dropped to my knees and started giving her chest compressions. When she spit up water I thought she was going to wake up.' Nick Gordon breaks his silence on Bobbi Kristina's tragic drowning and reveals she was PREGNANT twice

Nick Gordon, 26, tells Daily Mail Online his version of what happened in the crucial hours before Bobbi Kristina was found face down in the bathtub
He claims that drug-addicted Bobbi Kristina almost drowned in a tub once before – only to be rescued by her mom Whitney Houston
Gordon proclaims his innocence - but admits the couple got into a fight because Bobbi Kristina thought he was cheating
He says he was out with friends, got back at 4 am and 'Krissy' was already clearly 'messed up'
'We made up and went upstairs and lay on the bed for about 45 minutes and did what adults do'
Gordon admits he and Bobbi Kristina were using drugs 'more and more'
'We wanted to get clean, settle down, get married, have kids,' Gordon says as he tells the couple suffered two miscarriages
Bobbi Kristina's autopsy listed cause of death as 'undetermined,' but Gordon is still facing a civil suit brought by Bobbi Kristina's conservator
Gordon will be interviewed by Dr. Phil on his TV show on Thursday and Friday

Read more:

lynda said...

Hey Jude..I have noticed that Davey has had some cosmetic dental work done. Gone are the uneven front teeth and now his pearly whites SHINE! Better for the camera. I posted on the other thread that I am Stunned that anyone is buying the "I thought something went wrong with the pregnancy" Does he understand where babies come out?? What would that have to do with having a massive head and back wound? Good God.

Hey Jude said...

Lynda - I didn't notice the teeth, will take a look - it was predictable. (I don't know if it is true, but I read that people have been murdered because their teeth were whiter than their partners - I' sure Davey's not that superficial. Wel,mI'd like to be sure.)

I am wondering if there was a very violent rape for him to have said what he did about something going wrong with the pregnancy - we don't know the extent of the condition Amanda was in.


Am I right in thinking that there was a sexual assault, and that neither of those charged have been charged with sexual assault or rape - or has one of them also been charged with sexual assault?

Hey Jude said...

Ps - Lynda, thanks again for transcribing Davey's mammoth 'Carrying ourPain in the Midst of Hurt' - I looked it up yesterday and marvelled at your patience and perseverance. I have been further researching everything related to the pregnancy. I want, but don't feel it is right to post what I have - it will come out anyway, if what I am thinking is so - if I am wrong, it would only cause more hurt to the family.

Jen said...

Hey Jude,
Where is Lynda's transcription? I want to read it too.

Hey Jude said...

Jen, it's somewhere within this page of the very long Blackburn thread - quite near the beginning:

Jen said...

Hey Jude,
Thank you.

Nic said...

ima.grandma said:

Group thoughts on Chief Bower's latest statement re: Fairfax County Firefighter tragedy and scandal???

Chief Bowers says he is taking this investigation very seriously,

"If there is any nexus with any type of bullying-which I have zero tolerance for-in a physical nature, of bullying itself; or in the written nature; or the verbal nature of bullying, if you will-I will address that and eradicate that completely, if in fact it involves any members of our department”.

the word, “with" weakens nexus
nexus is a link. The word “with" is not linking bullying to the department

address, eradicate completely
the word, “completely” weakens eradicate
I would ask the chief if in the past he has had issues brought to his attention that he fully didn’t address/rectify

“if” in fact
extra wording. “If” is conditional and "in fact” is extra wording that weakens the condition

any (no matter how much or how many)
he lists the bullying he has zero tolerance for: physical, bullying itself, written, verbal
I would ask him to clarify what bullying means; by definition it is superior strength, influence, intimidation, I would want to find out his tolerance to other types of bullying, such as ostracism

that, that, it
change in language
there is ‘that' and then there is ‘it’ (that involves any members)

The word, “that" (distancing) is repeated twice in very close succession, making ‘that’ sensitive

“our” department,
Bower is the chief but he does not take ownership of his department by using the pronoun “my” (responsibility), he is including everyone with himself, spreading ownership/responsibility

Conclusion: I believe there was more going on that what has been publicized. I would be interested to know if Nicole ever went to the Chief with her concerns about being bullied and if so, whether he acted on her complaint; or, let alone whether she could go to him at all. The chief minimizes and distances quite a bit and puts a significant condition on whether he will do anything. I don't believe he is that serious about investigating his members.


Nic said...

If there is

"is" present (today)

"I will address

Future tense.

I don't believe he will be addressing anything in the past, just from today onward.

ima.grandma said...

Thank you Nic. I respect your opinion and agree. I'm invested in social issues enveloping this tragedy.

My Sew Imperfect Life said...

Great job Nic! You always post thoughtful analyses. I agree I don't think he will address it either.

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