Monday, July 11, 2016

For The Professional Analyst: A Consideration

Chess is a game of the mind that takes talent, many years of practice, training and more practice and something else...  

For one to reach the level of nationally ranked "Expert" status, talent and dedication fuel the rise.  But what does the talented chess Expert do to reach a new level of success?  He has already been studying and practicing and appears to have reached a plateau.  How can he break through this very successful level?

The professional analyst is one who has had solid training, lots of practice and he has had professional application; that is, he has seen the success of his work and it has received affirmation by adjudication, confession, polygraph, and so on.  This analyst knows what he is doing.  

By this point, he has likely taken more than a few courses, and he has moved from well discerning deception from truth, on to content analysis.  He may have repeated some of these courses, knowing that absorption requires much repetition.  

This is the professional, successful analyst.  

He has dismissed his earlier training in which he was taught common error, such as,

"Truthful people give an abundance of detail" and "didn't is stronger than did not", and so on.  The latter, a 'Reid Technique' is statistically false, but the former continues to get press.  

As to "truthful people give an abidance of detail", please note:

A.  When a deceptive person is giving an abundance of detail, it is a signal of memory in play, but not  necessarily experiential memory of the event.  We have many examples of fraud in which the subject gives an abundance of detail of the non existing perpetrator; using a description of self, or someone close to him, to accomplish this. 

B.  See Casey Anthony's description of "Zanny the Nanny."

These techniques often sell books, but the trained analyst knows these, and other early academy mandatory trainings do not work but serve, at best, to embarrass the new investigator.  

A chess Expert is ranked above 2000 ELO and, for practical purposes, beats everyone he plays in casual games, wherever he goes.  It is only in tournament play where he meets his equal.

But what of the Expert who desires improvement to Master and Grandmaster status?

He may study all he wants but he will not improve until he plays against those better than himself.

In bicycle racing, one of the most common questions new riders ask is,

"How do I gain speed?"

The answer never changes:  "Go faster."

The cyclist learns that there is no short cut and if he wishes to reach 25 mph, but can only ride at 20 mph, he must force himself to go 22 mph, even if he can only do this for a 10 minute period of time.  If he continues to exhaust himself in this way, followed by rest and nutrition, the 10 minutes at 22 mph will turn into 20 minutes, and so on.  He now must go with riders that sustain 22 mph and push himself towards 25mph. 

To go faster, he must go faster.

The professional analyst does well to repeat courses until they are committed to memory, but in diagnosing the professional analyst's strengths and challenges, if he is committed to going to the next level, he must analyze with professionals better than himself.  

This is accomplished through monthly, guided training, in which he is set up against other professionals who possess similar training but varied experiences in analysis.  

Consider several points:

1.  The other analysts are just as nervous and insecure as you are.

2.  The other analyst (singular) has been exposed to something you have not.

3.  The other analysts benefit from one another, which leads to team work, cooperation and...

4.  Support

For example, in analyzing the phrase "I don't remember" given in an open statement, one analyst may say, "I encountered this several times over the years, with each time the subject passing the polygraph, as he was not being deceptive.  He was thinking about this other event when..."

Human language is almost as vast as human nature, and it is a dual exposure:

A.  To professionals who have different backgrounds and applications with the same trainings as you have;

B.  To professionals who have different professional experiences and encounters with the same trainings as you have.

This is to say that the other analyst has encountered what you have not, as you have encountered what the other analyst has not. 

If you use this formula, there will be increase, but better still is if you use this formula and have various experts from various fields present the breadth of understanding is deepened. 

There is no substitute for "iron sharpening iron" and we offer an affordable, once per month live trainings that will greatly improve your skills.  

When someone signs up for one of our two courses, Statement Analyst I and Statement Analyst II certifications, the requirement for minimum hours for certification is stated, but it is that it generally takes a single session to convince the analyst of the value of analyzing with other professionals.  

They quickly learn how supportive each is, and how various backgrounds benefit, greatly, their own understanding of analysis.  

The nationally ranked Expert must now plan his course of study to include tournaments where he regularly plays against higher ranked professionals.  He will lose many games, but as he reviews and learns, the 2000 ELO player finds that he is now 'holding his own' with the 2200 field.  At this level, when he loses, the victor often magnanimously conducts the 'post mortum' review of the game, and offers constructive advice for the Expert to improve, as the camaraderie and bonding of higher levels of success reveal. 

For more information on how you can have your analysis diagnosed, so that you may move to a deeper understanding of the text, visit Hyatt Analysis Services training to move well past "truth versus deception" into deeper content, psychological profiling, anonymous author identification and motive.  

At the end of a single training, there is both exhaustion and exhilaration for the analyst.  

He or she may need a month to recover.  

My own work has grown through this interaction.  Most often, I enter the training 'cold', not even reading the statement before us.  This pushes me.  

The trainings have exposed my weaknesses, allowing me to address them for improvement, as well as introducing me to new elements. The presence of business experts, security experts, psychological experts and professionals of strong IQs, has, each new session, given me deeper and more accurate understanding of the various elements and personalities of those who deceive, commit crimes and bring harm to society.  

They experienced things that I have not and these 'things' were verbalized.  

I have experienced things others have not and recognize this word, used here, whereas someone else experienced that word, over there, and psychology experts deal with their world every day and they know, for example, a "borderline before she walks in the door" due to the incessant experiences. 

We benefit from one another, gladly sharing knowledge, and supporting each other to raise our science and bring justice. 


CathieD said...

OT: Perry Noble has been fired from NewSpring Church due to alcohol abuse and "his posture toward his marriage."

Anonymous said...

Comments on this blog article give extra insight on the situation too.

Anonymous said...

It's refreshing how candid the messages seem to be, from the church, and from Perry Noble. It comes across as honest and without the obfuscation (blurring of truth) I would expect in such a situation. But my expectation might just be because that's how some churches act (sneaky) in my corner of the world. Maybe PN can quit drinking and get a job at DB's church? Prob not, but wouldn't it be like out of movie?

John Mc Gowan said...

OT Update:

DeOrr Kunz:


Updated at 1:52 pm, July 11th, 2016 By: Nate Eaton

IDAHO FALLS – He was the only non-family member on a camping trip when a 2-year-old boy disappeared in Lemhi County one year ago. Now, Isaac Reinwand is sharing more details about what he says happened the day the child vanished.

Reinwand recently sat down with for an extensive interview about his experience at Timber Creek Campground in Leadore.

Reinwand was at the campsite when DeOrr Kunz Jr. vanished July 10, 2015.

DeOrr’s parents, Jessica Mitchell and Vernal DeOrr Kunz, were also there along with Robert “Bob” Walton, Mitchell’s grandfather.

Reinwand says Walton, Mitchell, Kunz and young DeOrr arrived at his home on the afternoon of July 9, 2015.

“There were two trucks. Bob showed up first and then everyone else showed up,” Reinwand says. “Bob had been my friend for over five years, but it was the first time I’d ever seen the others.”

Reinwand says DeOrr was in a child’s seat in the back of Kunz’s truck.

“He seemed just like a normal, happy outgoing kid,” Reinwand recalls.

Reinwand and Walton rode together to Timber Creek Campground and by the time they arrived, it was almost dark.

“I set up camp and helped start a fire,” Reinwand says. “We set everything up and Bob slept in his camper. I slept in a tent. Jessica, (Vernal) DeOrr and the baby slept in the back of Bob’s blue Blazer.”

The next morning, July 10, Reinwand recalls seeing DeOrr as the group ate breakfast. The child was wearing large cowboy boots and “clumping around” the campsite.

“He was playing and trying to throw stuff in the fire. His dad got after him for it but he was just like a normal 2-year-old,” Reinwand says.

After breakfast, Reinwand says he went back to sleep in his tent. He woke up around noon as Mitchell and Kunz were leaving camp.

“Jessica and baby DeOrr and his dad were heading to the store to see if they could get some gas,” Reinwand says.

The group went to the Stage Stop Junction store in Leadore, about a 30 minute drive on rocky terrain from Timber Creek Campground.

While they were gone, Reinwand says Walton took him around to various fishing holes near the campsite.

A short time later, Kunz, Mitchell and DeOrr returned. Walton suggested that Reinwand show them a nearby fishing hole.

“I went to show Jessica where the fishing hole was and I assumed DeOrr and his dad were right behind me,” Reinwand remembers. “I thought we were going as a group.”

Reinwand recalls arriving at the fishing spot 300 to 400 feet from the campsite. Mitchell was with him, but Reinwand says Kunz and DeOrr were not. He assumed they were lagging behind.

Reinwand says he then went to a different part of the creek to fish by himself.

“I was down there fishing for a while and that’s when I noticed Bob was on the ridge pacing back and forth,” Reinwand says. “I asked him what was going on and he said, ‘Little DeOrr is missing,’ and I was like, ‘What?’”

Reinwand says Walton appeared stressed and worried.


John Mc Gowan said...

“I walked up to the bank and I talked to Bob a little bit more about where DeOrr might be,” Reinwand says. “We looked in the camper, we looked all around the area and underneath the vehicles. I went up in the hills to where the reservoir was and looked around.”

Reinwand says he spent 30 minutes trying to find DeOrr. Walton, Kunz and Mitchell were also searching the area surrounding the campground.

“(Mitchell) was out in the sagebrush looking,” Reinwand says. “She came back to camp and I talked to her a little bit. She seemed pretty upset.”

Reinwand assumed DeOrr was lost and the child was sitting down somewhere.

Mitchell and Kunz called 911 and rescue crews arrived. Reinwand recalls thinking about DeOrr as he tried to fall asleep that night.

“I was wondering where he was, if he’s cold, if he’s going to be sick, if he’s OK,” Reinwand says. “The last time I saw him he was having fun like a normal 2-year-old. He was doing his thing, exploring and looking at different things.”

Now, one year later, Reinwand has had a lot of time to reflect on the events of that fateful camping trip.

He says it’s possible an accident happened and DeOrr died, but he doesn’t believe Walton had anything to do with it.

“I don’t think Bob could hurt someone,” Reinwand says. “He had a hard time getting around with his oxygen tank.”

Reinwand says investigators were interested in a shovel Walton had with him at the campsite.

“Bob always carried a shovel around with him in his camper or in his Blazer,” Reinwand says. “That was a normal thing he carried with him most of the time.”

Lemhi County Sheriff Chief Deputy Steve Penner tells the shovel was one of numerous items detectives have focused on during their investigation and there was nothing abnormal about it.

Reinwand says he has “nothing to hide” and feels people have misjudged him even though he has been cooperative with law enforcement.

“I felt that I was being scapegoated or maybe partially accused,” Reinwand says, noting that he hasn’t spoken with Kunz or Mitchell since the camping trip.

“Bob has come around a few times, Reinwand says. “He seems to be doing OK.”

Reinwand says he’s unsure if the case will ever be solved, but he is hopeful.

“I hope he’s found,” Reinwand says. “People need closure.”

Lis said...

OT Another interesting perspective on Perry Noble's firing:
His "obsession with numbers":

"By his own words, Perry's self-confessed 'obsession to do everything possible to reach 100,000 and beyond' cost him deeply. And it led him to do things he should not have done," said Vaters.

"Not to beat up on him. I know I wouldn't want some blogger passing public judgment on my failures. But because I'm concerned that his numbers obsession might be seen as a justification for his actions, not as the cause of the problems," Vaters continued.

"Perry Noble's obsession with numerical goals hurt his marriage. It hurt his church. And it drove him to depend on alcohol instead of Jesus. That's what he admitted in his statement. His obsession to reach '100,000 and beyond' does not excuse his self-confessed sins. By his own admission, it caused them.

Interesting in light of what we've seen of his protege, Davey Blackburn...

Hey Jude said...

Thanks for the DeOrr update, John..the video wouldn't load on the page for me - YouTube if anyone else has the same problem

Parts Two and Three of the interview still to come - interesting.

Tania Cadogan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tania Cadogan said...

Off topic Perry noble statement BBM

"Hello NewSpring, I hope you had an amazing week and I know the service today is going to be awesome. However, I come to you with a heavy heart to let you know that effective July 1, I will no longer be the senior pastor of NewSpring church. I wish this were a joke or a part of a sermon illustration; however, it's true. I've often told you that NewSpring exists to help hurting, imperfect people. I have joked that you should not attend NewSpring if you are already perfect, because I will mess you up That was my way of telling you I am traveling on a journey each day alongside each and every one of you to try and take my next step to become more like Jesus. If you've attended NewSpring for any length of time, you know I've never claimed to be the perfect pastor or even the perfect Christian. What we've seen the Lord do over the last 16 years has been a modern-day miracle.

"However, in my obsession to do everything possible to reach 100,000 and beyond, it has come at a personal cost in my own life and created a strain on my marriage. In my opinion, the Bible does not prohibit the use of alcohol, but it does prohibit drunkenness and intoxication. I've never had a problem drinking alcohol socially, but in the past year or so I've let myself slide into, in my opinion, the overuse of alcohol. This was a spiritual and moral mistake on my part, as I began to depend on alcohol for my refuge instead of Jesus and others. I have no excuse. This was wrong and sinful, and I'm truly sorry. For those disappointed in me, let me assure you that no one is more disappointed in me than myself. I realize that I cannot continue to do effective ministry if this issue in my personal life is not adequately addressed.

"I plan to immediately seek the spiritual guidance of some amazing men and women of God in my life, and I am currently under the treatment of an excellent psychologist who is helping me take some major steps forward. Let me be very clear, neither Lucretia nor I have committed any sort of sexual sin. I have not stolen money. I have not been looking at porn. And there is absolutely no domestic abuse. This is the story, period. I simply need to address an issue that has gotten out of hand in my life.

"I receive this decision as from the Lord, as I trust the leadership of NewSpring Church, and I ask you join me in trusting them as well. I still believe NewSpring is the greatest church in the world. I still believe our children's ministry is going to provide Jesus on the level of the children who attend there. I still believe the next generation will be loved and invested in, and I know every Sunday in our church, lives will be changed as Jesus is exalted and the gospel is declared.

"As for me, I'm uncertain as to what my next step is. The one thing I know: I am going to put 100 percent of my time and effort into becoming the best father and husband I can become. I would ask that you pray for my family and me as we seek out what's next in our lives. I've preached that the best is yet to come for 16 years. I can't say it for you. I must receive it as well. I don't know what's around the corner, but I know Jesus isn't finished with me yet and He's not finished with NewSpring Church. I love you and always will. I'm really sorry and ask you to forgive me."

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tania Cadogan said...

This is an interesting statement from perry.
Note where there is a change in his language. order, what is hinted at and what is missing.

. In my opinion, the Bible does not prohibit the use of alcohol, but it does prohibit drunkenness and intoxication. I've never had a problem drinking alcohol socially, but in the past year or so I've let myself slide into, in my opinion, the overuse of alcohol.
It seems his church disagreed,there seems to be a difference of opinion as is often the case over how much is socially acceptable/social and how much is addiction becoming alcoholism.

Let me be very clear, neither Lucretia nor I have committed any sort of sexual sin.
This caught my eye.
Why did he need to introduce his wife into what was clearly his problem?
Why did he put her first rather than himself since this is all about him and his issues and this is his resignation note.
Order is important.
since he is the one resigning and therefore it is his behaviors and martial problems which caused this, why did he need to say his wife had not committed any sort of sexual sin.
Is this a sort of subtle blaming?
If she had done this or that i would not have had to do this or that and i would not be in this situation?

I have not stolen money

I have not been looking at porn
Consistent phrasing

And there is absolutely no domestic abuse.
Oop lookie here.
And at the beginning of a sentence ndicates missing language.
Note also the change in language, no I have not been domestically abusive
We have the qualifier absolutely which weakens his denial.
I would ask what his definition of domestic abuse is.
I would then ask the same of his wife and the church and see what is similar and what is different.

Was he abusive whilst in drink?

This is the story, period.
Note he tells us this is the story as opposed to this is the truth.
I want to know what the truth is rather than what they have all it seems decided is the story to be told.
All this will have an impact on church numbers and thus income.
A drunken, womanising pastor is bad news for a church, more so if it is the guy who formed the church in the first place.

He wants this to be the end, no questions, no arguments or disagreement.
This is all he will say on the matter.
End of.
Next topic please.
This could be by choice or, as a result of discussions with the board as to what he will need in order to leave quietly, money etc.
He is a liability to the church and they will want shot of him soonest.
He knows this and may make certain demands, especially since he is the founder, that he will go off into the sunset quietly if they do this, this and this.

Tania Cadogan said...


I wonder what his definition of sexual sin is, especially since one of the reasons he was fired for was Perry's posture toward his marriage
This is an interesting choice of words, one i cannot recall seeing being used in similar cases.

This leads me back to wondering about noble's descriptions of davey blackburn, his sexual descriptions of him in regard to his looks in particular.

I also wonder about davey's situation since his boss has now been fired from his own church in disgrace.
Will the church now distance itself from davey?
what about any debts owing to the church perhaps from the seeding?
Maybe they were at a favorable rate to davey or perhaps delayed for a bit till he got himself sorted out.

What will noble now do?
He will have probably no income from the church since he is no longer the lead pastor.
What about housing and transport?
Were they all part of the lead pastor package?
If so he is now effectively homeless, jobless, carless.
His dream of a megapastor is currently out the window unless he does some creative 'miracle working' and starts afresh in a new church of his own design.
Will he now be calling in some favors?

Maybe he will start talking especially if a reward is on offer and tell what he knows to LE.
No more buddy buddy with davey, especially if he sees or even thinks davey is making money out of Amanda's murder and that of their unborn child.

Cold hard reality gets a persons attention real fast when they take a mighty fall.

John Mc Gowan said...

Hey Jude


thank you..

Me being from Liverpool, UK, i find myself singing/humming, when your name pops up (and they're not my bag) the Beatles. Lol.

Anonymous said...

He's probably a gay wife-beater. Most of them are secretly queer and mad the woman's not a man.

Hey Jude said...

I'm transcribing it now, John - Isaac it a bit difficult to follow. :)

Hey Jude said...

Peter, John, Tania. all - am I right in thinking change in language, change in reality - gas to fuel?


IR: When I, when I, when I woke up they were – Jessica and DeOrr n’, Jessica and Deorr n’his dad were all heading, they were going to go and head up to the store, to see if they could get some gas ‘cause they were low on gasoline
SR: Was the gas station not open when they came through?
IR: Yes
SR: Would they need it for like a generator, or something?
IR: Uh, I think they needed fuel – ah, for some reason they needed fuel, I think they were – I can’t remember as why, but on the way up it wasn’t open, by the time we got to the store it wasn’t open
SR: So they left the campground to go get gas, and who went – who all went?


I'll post full transcript later for anyone's interest.

Alexandra said...

I think they sold DeOrr.

Hey Jude said...

Interview East Idaho News - Isaac Reinwand and Stephan Rockefeller

SR: Let’s go back to the beginning when they picked you up. Was there, did you ride in the- was there one car? How many cars were there?
IR: Uh, cars, there - it was uh – two tru- two trucks
SR: Okay, and so who did you ride with?
IR: Bob
SR: Okay. So that’s Jessica’s grandfather?
IR: Right
SR: Did Jessica and DeOrr, did they come to your house here?
IR: Bob showed up first – and then they showed up, and they were outside
SR: And that was the first time you’ve ever seen Jessica and DeOrr
IR: That, that is correct
SR: What was your first impression of them?
IR: Uhh, that they’re just, you know, an average family. I didn’t really know much about ‘em. I, I trusted Bob though because you know, Bob’s been my friend for over five years, and so –
SR: And did they have anyone in the back seat with them, or anything?
IR: Ah, as far as I know the only other person they had was DeOrr back, in the back seat – he was in a child seat
SR: A child seat? Was he – how did he seem, happy?
IR: Yes, he seemed like a normal happy - outgoing kid, you know
SR: Did you ride with Bob to the campsite, which is about –would take two and a half hours from here, two hours
IR: Something like that, I think
SR: What time of day did you guys get to the campsite, do you know?
IR: Evening, towa- towards the evening, I think – it was night time, it was almost dark by the time we got to the campsite, actually
SR: What did you do?
IR: I set up camp th- and helped start a fire, an’ that’s what we did first was set up everything
SR: Did someone have a camper up there?
IR: Yeah, uh, Bob did
SR: So, and then you slept in a tent?
IR: Right
SR: And then where did Jessica, DeOrr and the little guy sleep?
IR: They slept in the back of Bob’s uh, blue Blazer


Hey Jude said...

SR: Jessica and DeOrr – what was your impression of them, up there that night?
IR: I was a little nervous about them because I didn’t know them, you know. So DeOrr was just kind of wandering around playing and stuff
SR: Did Jessica and DeOrr, like, did they bring beer, or anything like that up there?
IR: Uh, Jessica and DeOrr didn’t – um, I th - Bobby, brought so - Bob brought some whiskey and stuff up
SR: Did Bob drink any of the whiskey?
IR: I think he might had a coup -uh – actually, no Bob doesn’t drink anymore, so, no.
SR: Okay, but he had whiskey?
IR: He had it up there, but he’sa- brought it with him for other people to drink if they wanted some
SR: Did you guys go to bed right away that night, or did you stay up by the fire, and just kinda enjoy it out there?
IR: I stayed up for a little while – I can’t remember what time I went to bed.
SR: Tell me about the next morning. Who got up first, or what order did you get up?
IR: I don’t re – I think I got up first for a lil’whle, you know, n’went and used the restroom and everything and then I went back to bed but and then, I can’t remember who got up first
SR: Did you guys all eat breakfast together?
IR: Um, breakfast – if we even had breakfast that - that day. I think we, I think we did have breakfast that m’n –
SR: What was baby DeOrr like that morning?
[slight pause]
SR: Do you remember?
IR: Yeaah – I think he, he was playing and trying’a throw stuff in the fire and his dad got after him for that, you know, just like a normal two year old
SR: So, after breakfast what did you guys – did you go fishing, did you go hiking, what did you do?
IR: [laughing] I went back to bed ‘cause I was still tired!
SR: So you don’t know what Jessica and DeOrr did?
IR: No.
SR: When did you get up for the day, was it in the afternoon?
IR: Ah, it was pr-about about noon or so
SR: What was going on then?
IR: When I, when I, when I woke up they were – Jessica and DeOrr n’, Jessica and Deorr n’his dad were all heading, they were going to go and head up to the store, to see if they could get some gas ‘cause they were low on gasoline


Hey Jude said...

SR: Was the gas station not open when they came through?
IR: Yes
SR: Would they need it for like a generator, or something?
IR: Uh, I think they needed fuel – ah, for some reason they needed fuel, I think they were – I can’t remember as why, but on the way up it wasn’t open, by the time we got to the store it wasn’t open
SR: So they left the campground to go get gas, and who went – who all went?
IR:DeOrr went, his mom, and uh –
SR: You mean, so baby DeOrr -?
IR: Yeah, baby DeOrr, an’ and his dad. Bob took me around to try to show me a few fishing holes up round the reservoir and that area
SR: And you saw DeOrr when they went to the store – baby DeOrr – he was fine, he was just –
IR: Yeah
SR: - being a kid
IR: Yeah, and they all packed up and went to the store
SR: Okay. And then were you at the campground when they came back?
IR: Yyeaah.
SR: And baby DeOrr was still with them when they came back?
IR: That is correct
SR: Okay. So then what happened – what were you guys doing then, do you remember?
IR: Mm – we kinda just, you know, sat around chatted for a little bit, hung out, and then Bob told me to go show them where th – we got all the fishing gear ready and Bob told me to show them where the fishing hole is. I walked upwards toward upstream towards the fishing hole where we were catching ‘em – me and Bob were fishing before, and I showed ‘em were it was and everything.
SR: How long do you think you were up there with – when you were showing Jessica and DeOrr, how long were you up there with them?
IR: Uuurrh – I’m not sure. I don’t
SR: You don’t know. Do you know how far away from the campground you guys were?
IR: I don’t know, maybe – I don’t know – about three, four hundred feet or something – not very far
SR: Okay
IR: Y’now, I sa-I seen, when we went, I saw, y’know – I thought everybody was with us, I thought DeOrr – I was in ahead of and DeOrr Senior was behind me and so was – uh DeOrr


Hey Jude said...

Well, if the two vehicles belonging to Bob were up there, along with DeOrr's problem black truck, that makes three - how did all the vehicles get there?

Hey Jude said...

I can see he has not the best interview technique - he makes Nate Eaton look like an expert.

The Sheep said...

Some campers can be attached to the back of another vehicle and pulled.

Hey Jude said...

Hi The Sheep :) - He said they had two trucks, he didn't mention a camper. The interviewer asks if Bob had a camper 'up there' - maybe the camper was already up there.

The Sheep said...

There was a camper; it's been repeatedly mentioned: it's where GGP slept, it's where GGP went in for a minute right before Deorr went missing (here it's called 'trailer', in an earlier interview the sheriff talks about searching the camper.

Regardless, I count four adults. Why the flag on how three vehicles got there?

Hey Jude said...

I wonder if they had more nights camping than they said - ashe couldn't remember if they had breakfast that morning. Maybe he meant the days following DeOrr's disappearance, but I doubt anyone would have been bothering with a normal breakfast the next day - besides, I thought Isaac went home the day went missing and refused to join in the search. Only social media chatter about though - no proper verification - perhaps tomorrow he will clarify. If he gets to say anything,,,the interviewer keeps feeding and interrupting him'

John Mc Gowan said...

Excellent, transcription, HJ. Thank you.

That would've took me yonks to transcribe.

Many compound questions, leading questions, assumptions, sentence finishing, etc.

SR: "When did you get up for the day, was it in the afternoon?"
IR: Ah, it was pr-about about noon or so
SR: What was going on then?
IR: When I, when I, when I woke up they were – Jessica and DeOrr n’, Jessica and Deorr n’his dad were all heading, they were going to go and head up to the store, to see if they could get some gas ‘cause they were low on gasoline"

What is it about that question, that makes him stutter, not once, but 3 times. For me, this is a very sensitive area/time of the day.

I would, in my limited knowledge, focus on that time, for starters.

John Mc Gowan said...

*with my

Hey Jude said...

the flag is because only two vehicles left -

Jessica and DeOrr with baby DeOrr in the back seat. They arrived at Isaac's together, and he said 'they' had him in the back seat - so they were all in one truck.

Isaac rode with Bob in his blue Blazer truck.
Two vehicles.

The interviewer asked 'did someone have a camper up there?'

Isaac said 'yes, Bob did' - he didn't say they took it up there, and did not mention it when asked about the vehicles at the start of the interview. He didn't say they unhooked a trailer when they were setting up camp. So I think It sounds as if it might already have been up there. To my understanding a camper is a vehicle, a camper van, which can't be towed - but if that is not so, and they had a trailer, it doesn't sound, so far, as if they took it along with them.

Trina said DeOrr and Jessica slept in the back of her father's Suburban - is that also the blue Blazer? I don't know stuff about cars or trucks, they are all the same to me,

Is it strange that Isaac says 'as far he knows' they only other person they had in the back of the car was DeOrr? I think it a little strange that he does not give a straight 'yes'or 'no' to that.

Hey Jude said...

John, I almost don't want to think about it before we have the other two interviews - what is he going to say? I think he is not telling it like it was - and I agree, that is very sensitive. Also, this interview I understood why Peter got so frustrated by Nate Eaton's interviewing - lol - I didn't get it so much then as I do now.

Sounds like Isaac was wary of Jessica and DeOrr - all very strange.

Alexandra said...

The sheriff busted them for lying bc they had said that DeOrr was wearing oversized cowboy boots and the sheriff felt that these boots would have fallen off if DeOrr had been snatched by human or animal.

BUT, I believe that DeOrr DID have those oversized cowboy boots on.


If they were handing him off to someone to be sold, then it wouldn't matter if the boots were oversized. They were DeOrr's favorite shoes and so they may have let DeOrr take these shoes with him since they meant so much to him if he was going to be sold to someone.

Anonymous said...

" they all packed up and went to the store" puzzles me.
In my culture and use of English, that gives the impression that they gathered their possessions together as one might when departing permanently. "Packed up" what?
Or is it just an idiom?

- Athena.

Hey Jude said...

Nate Eaton: you really only spent a couple of hours with them once you got up there?
Isaac Reinwand: more like a couple of days
Jan 2016 interview

I do wonder if the trip was longer than they claimed. It would have been just a few hours up there if what Isaac said were true - late Thursday evening, he slept all Friday morning - then DeOrr was missing, after which it seems unlikely Isaac would have 'spent time! with them.

John Mc Gowan said...

OT Update:

Dylan Redwine:

Dylan Redwine search: ‘Items of interest’ found

Passive article.

elf said...

Some campers are pulled behind a vehicle, my bf says they're called bumper pulled but I've always heard them called camper trailers. We're from two different parts of the country, Florida and Missouri, so we often have dialect differences.

Grace 66 said...

Unknown said...

The video won't rewind for me to transcribe. When asked what she would say to baby DeOrr, did Jessica really say, "I hope you are being well taken care of or whatever..."?

Is that the first (or second or 99th) thing a mother of a missing child would say to her child? It is an unexpected statement.

Hey Jude said...

Okay, it was the type which needs to be towed:

PI Frank Vilt's reconstruction - I can't find the video where he enacts the grandpa going into the trailer, but in the news clips on that there is a tow trailer in the background.
Trina on her FB on the anniversary recalls how she had been cleaning and packing up the trailer for the trip beforehand.
Jessica, in the video Grace and Megsn link above. says they hooked up the trailer to grandpa's surburban and spent some time waiting round for Isaac - they went to his house four times. Isaac says they 'showed up' at his place. Maybe a last minute thing to take Isaac if he wasn't around and ready when they were packed up to go.

John Mc Gowan said...

NEWSLINE Special: Search for DeOrr Kunz, One Year Later


Hey Jude said...

Tania - great post. I think Perry won't be homeless or without an income - he must have good savings and investments in view of his massive undisclosed income, plus his wife is a doctor. They won't want.

Nic said...

Great updates.

I'm confused about the post wherein IR says Jessica followed him and thought DeOrr sr. and jr. were following and then he just says Jessica?

I picked up a copy of People (indulgence I grant myself when on vacay). :0) I found it interesting that the DeOrr sr. quote in the publication is not the same as the online one I linked to in another thread. Below, in part, is from the exclusive interview with People (I posted it in another thread, but I'm bumping here and will delete previous). Re Mitchell's quote at the end of the hardcopy version, LE need to get their hands on a full transcript of the interview and have it analyzed.

Hey Jude said:
Jessica, in the video Grace and Megsn link above. says they hooked up the trailer to grandpa's surburban and spent some time waiting round for Isaac - they went to his house four times. Isaac says they 'showed up' at his place.

In the interview Kunz saying that they got off on the wrong foot; makes sense re above if in fact they swung by his place four times, but when lining things up side-by-side, the order is off.

"[snipped for content]

It was a cool summer morning in the Idaho mountains, and 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz was gripping his blue baby blanket as he scampered around the campfire where his father was cooking up a breakfast of eggs, sausage and hash browns. “You’re going to trip and fall into the fire, or your blanket is going to catch fire,” the boy’s father, also named DeOrr, recalls telling his son. “Or something bad is going to happen.”

But as he walked back to the campsite, he didn’t see his son in his camping chair or with his great grandfather Robert Walton, who was supposed to be watching him. “Where’s DeOrr?” Kunz asked. Walton didn’t know. “I just threw the fishing pole down and left everything where it was,” Mitchell recalls. “I ran across the rocks, went up the embankment and screamed, ‘What do you mean he’s gone? What do you mean he’s missing?’”


The camping trip had already gotten off to a shaky start, Kunz says, because he hadn’t really wanted to go camping in the first place. He’d wanted to spend the weekend helping his father cut wood. ... Says Kunz: “We got off on the wrong foot.” Kunz says he wanted to leave right then, but the plan was to stay until Sunday, when Mitchell’s mother would arrive. So the Kunz family kept their distance, and the trio spent that first night sleeping in the back of Walton’s Suburban. The next morning after breakfast, Kunz and his family decided to drive into the nearby town and pick up supplies and snacks


At 2:28 p.m. Mitchell made the call no parent wants to make. “My 2-year-old son, we can’t find him,” Mitchell told the 911 dispatcher. He had been missing an hour, she said. ... Kunz said, “It was the hardest thing to do, just sitting there while we have a missing child.”


Meanwhile, Kunz, a long-haul trucker who frequently drives from Idaho to Arizona, says when he’s on the road he feels hopeful that he’ll see his son again. But every time he crosses into Idaho, a feeling of dread washes over him. “The hatred I have for this state, it’s just astounding,” he says. “I can’t stand being here. You wake up in the morning and go, ‘Is it even worth living anymore?’”


Mitchell says there are still moments when she hears her little man in the night. “I’ll start dozing off and think I hear his voice saying ‘Mama,’” she says. “I’ve walked into his room, and then I ask, ‘What are you doing?’” But the stark reality quickly sets in, she says. “You close the door and cry. You cry yourself to sleep a lot of the

Nic said...

In the magazine, one of the photos are captioned by a quote from DeOrr sr. saying that jr. isn't up on the mountain anymore.

Is there CCTV of the family at the store? Sr. is a long "haul" trucker. Could he have been hauling jr. out while the mom was calling 911?

I was wondering why sr. would inject his father into the story. He wanted to spend the weekend helping his father cut (fire) wood. The story opens with imagining jr.'s blanket being burned, or him falling into the fire. (Or) something bad *going to* happen. The blanket that Mitchell was carrying, was it ever tested forensically? Was there anything of jr. on the blanket? i.e., could it be determined that it wasn't a replica?

Has the paternal grandfather's yard/land been investigated? (Fire pits?)

Has the maternal grandmother's vehicle been forensically tested? (Cadaver) Did the maternal grandmother ever arrive to the mountain? When?

Note Mitchell says she's walked into (jr.'s) room and *then* asked "What are you doing." That is unexpected. I would expect her to ask, "what's wrong?/what's the matter?" Note the door closing.

What I post is my opinion based on what I have read of public statements/interviews given by the parents of DeOrr jr.

Nic said...

One last thought about discovering jr. missing. IR doesn't put sr. with them when he was leading Jessica to fishing spots.

If I recall correctly from previous reports, sr. says he and Jessica when to locate a place to fish, sending jr. back to GGP, omitting IR completely.

GGP says he didn't know where jr. was and thought jr was with 'them'.

Note Jessica, "What are you doing?"

Sr. is quoted in the hardcopy saying jr isn't on the mountain "anymore".

I'm wondering if jr. was moved and then I have to wonder by whom as I don't believe LE would let either parent out of their site.

No wonder LE are frustrated. There is a lot of conflicting information from the people actually present on the mountain; however, I find IR's account of the time more reliable than the parents' stories.

What I post is my opinion.

Hey Jude said...

Parts 2 and 3 of the interview are on East Idaho news now. I will make a transcript, though the interviewer keeps suggesting the responses - it's not a good interview. Isaac seems reluctant.

Anon "I" said...

What is the meaning of "posture" in the actual statement by PN's church? Is it indicative of stress, like sitting is, etc.?

Hey Jude said...

Part Two - Transcript, Issac Reinwand and Stephan Rockefeller interview on East Idaho News Interview


SR: So you thought baby DeOrr was –
IR: I thought they were all foll – all were going as a group, yes
SR: So, and did you look back, did you actually see them all with you as a group at some point?
IR: At some point, before we, we were all as a group before we, as we started to leave the campground, I remember all of us being together. We’re
SR: [speaks over IR} But not Bob.
IR: Right
SR: Bob wasn’t there
IR: Bob was at the c – m’a stayed at the camp.
SR: Okay, but to the very first spot where you were showing them, do you remember, was Jessica holding DeOrr - was Senior DeOrr holding DeOrr? Because if he was having trouble walking he probably would have to have been carried at some point, right?
IR: Right
SR: So, you remember if anyone was holding him?
IR: If he was, if he was down there – ah - like I said, I don’t – it’s like – I don’t r – like I can’t answer that – I don’t re – you know. That’s what I said - I can’t remember everything. As far as I know I thought baby DeOrr was still behind us and I was showing Jessica. Like when, when I went to go show them the – the f-f-fishing hole, like I went down there and showed Jessica where the fishing hole is and I assumed that, you know, DeOrr and his dad were right behind me
SR: Okay
IR: Right be – or just- just behind us –they -it was just taking them a little bit to catch up
SR: And at what point did you and Dt Senior and Jessica split up? They went somewhere else and you went somewhere else, right? You came down the creek closer to the campground and left them up there?
IR: Yeah
SR: And so
IR: I did. I mean it was like five, ten min – I still don’t know – it must have been five, ten minutes.
SR: Okay
IR: After I did that, I started to walk, I walked towards camp, and I went to another fishing hole to fish and I was down there fishing for a while – n’ that’s when I noticed Bob was up there on the ridge, walking, pacing back and fore, so I asked him what was going on and n’ – he said, “Well, DeOrr’s missing.” And I was like “What?” – so
SR: And then..
IR: I was back at a distance there
SR: On the – you said like Bob was pacing on the ridge. What do you mean ‘the ridge’?


Hey Jude said...

IR: There’s really high banks – I’m at the very bottom of the - bottom of the bank, so – it’s hard to even see up over the bank cause of how steep the banks are.
SR: So you notice, you said you noticed Bob pacing, did you
IR: Kinda
SR: What did he look like to you? Did he look like he was stressed?
IR: He looked like he was kinda stressed or worried about something, so
SR: And so that’s what made you think to ask him what was going on
IR: Right
SR: And he said
IR: That li’l DeOrr’s missing – so
SR: And your reaction was?
IR: Well, “Where, where did he go?” I’ve – we’re just trying help’n look, help look for him
SR: So then what did you
IR: I walked up to the bank, and I started, I talked to -- Bob a little bit more about where, where he, where he might be, and we started looking in the campers and everything first – we looked in the camper, we-uh - looked all around the area, we looked underneath the vehicles, arhm, w-we went up in the hills – I, I went up in the hill, up, up there, about to where the reservoir is. I went up there and looked around. I must’ve went out by myself for probably about half an hour - an hour, looking, trying’a find DeOrr, and I couldn’t find him.
SR: So was Jessica and DeOrr, Jessica’s boyfriend or fiancé at the time, were they at the campsite when Bob told you DeOrr was missing? When he was pacing on the bank, and you walked up, were they at the campsite?
IR: A – fore, when I, when I went down there to talk - when I went up there to talk to Bob, no – they were already out looking for him.
SR: So you didn’t see them, they were
IR: Right
SR: They were out. So you and Bob searched the immediate area
IR: Me and Bob searched the imed- immediate area up there for a little bit. His mom came from – I don’t know – she was out in the sage brush looking – and she came back to camp and I talked to her a little bit and I said, “What, what’s going on here?” Like “He’s missing.”
SR: Did she seem upset?
IR: Yes, she seemed pretty upset – I couldn’t really look at her in the face or anything – she hasn’t been able to do that for a wh - I don’t know for what reason
SR: Do you, so, did you ever have the impression before law enforcement or search and rescue were out there, did you ever have a thought that maybe someone took him, did you ever think that, or was that something which came about when he just couldn’t be found?


Hey Jude said...

IR: I thought maybe he got lost or somewhere and sat down
SR: Okay
IR: That’s what I, my impression was, or, you know
SR: DeOrr, Jessica’s fiancé, do you know where he went, did he – was he in the truck, or did he - was he on foot?
IR: He was on foot for a while and then he was also in the trai – he got in the truck turned to go down by the cattle guard, to go look for him down there too
SR: Okay, but you stayed busy then
IR: Right, I stayed busy, looking, going off- up the hills, all over, yeah
SR: Was DeOrr Senior, did he get, was he angry, did he get aggressive with Bob, did he say like, “You – he was here last” like, was there frustration?
IR: I think there was a little bit but he didn’t seem to get too angry at Bob, so
SR: So DeOrr, did he ever appear frustrated or anything, that DeOrr – did he tell Bob at the time, “I left him here with you.” Did he ever say anything like that?
IR: Not that I remember, no.
SR: Did Vernal, Jessica’s boyfriend or fiancé, he left the campground, did he leave the campground in his truck to go call 911 – or do you know?
IR: Far as I know he left the campground in his truck to go and look for little DeOrr over by the cattle guard, but other than that I don’t know if they left to go call or not, or if they called it from there with one of their cell phones, I don’t, I don’t know
SR: Okay. Was Bob continuing to look, too? Could he get up and down the hills very easy
IR: He had kinda a hard time cause he had an oxygen machine and the tubes, so
SR: Okay, was there a shovel involved at any point – did anybody have a shovel?


Hey Jude said...

Also, DeOrr Sr was in a serious car crash on the 10 July anniversary, at Blackfoot. He is okay, the wreck was not his fault - young lady in car was taken to hospital, not wearing seatbelt, child and DeOrr wearing seatbelt. It's' son East Idaho news website.

Hey Jude said...

Part Three- Isaac Reinwand and Stephan Rockefeller – East Idaho News interview
IR: Umm - yeah, Bob always carried a shovel around with him in his camper, or in his, in his Blazer, but that was normal – one of the normal things he carried with him all the time.
SR: So no-one ever took that shovel out of the camper?
IR: Um, as far as I know, I don’t remember it being actually taken – I remember, I remember the officers asking about it
SR: Okay. Jessica or DeOrr Senior ever – when did they first say that maybe he was kidnapped?
IR: Or that he was ab - something happened. I don’t remember.
SR: Okay. They had mentioned about the boots he was wearing, that they were too big for him. Is that your same opinion?
IR: Yeah, they were kinda, kinda big on him and he was clumping around, you know
SR: And that was your observation?
IR: Yeah.
SR: Not what they told you
IR: Right – he had kinda a hard time walking anyway, cause he was only like two
SR: Your last impression, the last time you saw baby DeOrr, what was your impression of him - that you can remember the last time seeing him?
IR: Uh, that he was, you know, having fun, just like I said, he was just like a normal, just like a normal two year old – having fun, doing his thing, looking at, looking at different exploring, looking at different things, you know
SR: Can you say one hundred percent for sure, that baby DeOrr was up there?
IR: Yes, I can tell you that much, that he was up there
SR: What were your thoughts that night when you were, like when you were trying to fall asleep – what was going through your mind – you know, thinking about the day’s events?
IR: Where he was, you know - it was cold, if he’s gonna get, if he’s gonna be sick, if he’s okay – that’s what was going through my head.
SR: Did you ever feel accused by them? Did they ever confront you?
IR: Mmmm. I don’t know for say how h – I just, you know, I just kinda felt that way, you know, jus’ the way
SR: Okay. You had that impression that maybe
IR: I ha-, I felt like I had the impression, yes, that I was being scape-goated – or, you know, maybe partially accused, you know
SR: So, when you say ‘scape-goated’, do you mean like, are you saying like you felt they were using you for the fall guy?
IR: I can’t – you know, it kinda felt like that, but no, I don’t really know – it might have been


Hey Jude said...

SR: Yeah, I’m not saying that that’s a fact, I’m just a curious how, what was going through your mind, so – but you felt that way
IR: Kinda, yeah
SR: You don’t have anything to hide, then?
IR: No.
SR: You co-operated with law enforcement that night when they spoke to you?
IR: Yes, I did
SR: You told them everything
IR: Yeah, I told them everything that was going on
SR: So now a year later, no sign of him – what are your thoughts? You heard that Jessica got remarried?
IR: That’s what I heard. I thought that was kinda weird – she just, she just got out of a relationship not even what six months ago, I don’t know – and gets remarried, that’s weird – I mean, who does that?
SR: What are your thoughts about DeOrr?
IR: I don’t know – I haven’t seen him or heard from him, or anything
SR: No
IR: No.
SR: Ah
IR: You know, like I said, they don’t talk to me
SR: Does Bob talk to you?
IR: Yeah, Bob’s come around a few times
SR: How’s Bob doing?
IR: He seems to be doing alright.
SR: Yeah, so he just stops by to say, “Hi”?
IR: He stops by sometimes to say “Hi”, yes. Like there was, like a few, like few weeks ago, he was stopped by and was saying “Hey, we should go do this and this”, and then he was gone for it – and he kept stopping by on and off, and then one time he stopped by and I had - it was me and a bunch of my friends, and - so then he was here for like a few minute and then he split, and I haven’t seen him again then, it’s been almost two weeks. So, I don’t know, it’s just weird. Like I said, he’s a [inaudible] [laughs] – he does weird things, I don’t know.
SR: Your opinion of him, could he hurt someone?
IR: I don’t think so, no

Hey Jude said...

SR: What would – if he, what if there was an accident, what do you think? Do you think that’s possible that an accident happened?
IR: I’m pr- yeah, it could’ve been an ac – could’ve been an accident. I’m f – you know, it could be possible
SR: Do you think kidnapping is possible, that he was kidnapped?
IR: [exhales] I, you know – I can’t say, it could be possible too, you know, it could be possible he was kidnapped, something happened – you know, an accident of some sort
SR: What –
IR: I just – you know, it’s just, he needs – it’s like I said, he needs – that DeOrr needs to be found – he just, people need closure, you know, everybody, so everybody can just calm down and everybody can – you know – go back to their lives, and everything. At least, you know, let people know what’s going on and if they can find him or what, it would be nice.
SR: Do you think there will be a resolution to this case?
IR: I just- I can’t say that if there will or there won’t, but I’m hoping for the best and there will be.
SR: And you’ll continue to cooperate with law enforcement?
IR: Ah-yes.


Grace 66 said...

Hey Jude, thank you thank you thank you! Peter, please, please, please do an analysis on Isaac's words! Thank you in advance!!!!

Hey Jude said...

All welcome, Grace. I would like if Peter would take a look at it, too - but it's not that great an interview. Pity, he kept leading him, there is a lot of parroting - he hardly gives Isaac time to finish a sentence before he butts in with the next compound question. East Idaho News should put Stephan Rockefeller and Nate Easton on Peter!s course, lol. Grrr. :)

Hey Jude said...

Nic, thanks for posting the People excerpts - the bit about the fire, along with Isaac saying little DeOrr was running round and trying to throw things in the fire makes me think he fell in the fire. I already thought that all along - though maybe not at Timber Creek and they either set up camp somewhere else first that day, or they went a day earlier than they say.

Hey Jude said...

"It could've been an accident" - to Isaac, there was an 'it'.

Ode said...

PH originally wrote:

We benefit from one another, gladly sharing knowledge, and supporting each other to raise our science and bring justice.

This video I wish people would view, listen to the words said.
We are accountable for our own sanity, US Creating some sense
out of the nonsense 24/7 being spun and handed to us daily.

Published on Jul 11, 2016 .. this video is an easy listen
no screaming, no anxiety, it's eyes wide open, ears on. It's positive.

In this video Luke Rudkowski in NYC with the background of a black lives matter protests interviews Sasha Daygame about the general population being divided and conquered by the elites. We give you our point of view at a possible solution and how the problem should really be addressed.

Ode said...

** it's a bit sweary - slightly, a few said words
It's a point taken it's big peoples issues

Lis said...

"East Idaho News should put Stephan Rockefeller and Nate Easton on Peter!s course"


Anonymous said...

I've been thinking about the fire scenario. If he did fall into the fire, since Grandpa was wearing oxygen he wouldn't have been able to immediately remove him from it, because he would have had to pause to take it off so he didn't cause the tank to explode from the open flames. (Is it really a good idea to be around a campfire if you're oxygen dependent??)

Anyway, even a short pause could have made the difference between life and death since DeOrr was so little.

But it still doesn't explain why they wouldn't have put him in the truck and rushed him to the hospital.

The Sheep said...

I'm still with Deorr hitting him with the truck.

Hey Jude said...

I can't think why they would not cal 911 if it were that type of accident,

If he fell in the fire, and they knew he was beyond help - result of negligence and lack of supervision, that would make more sense that they would not call 911 and try to cover up what happened.

When Isaac is asked about what DeOrr was like that morning the first thing he says is he was playing and trying to throwing stuff in the fire - is that priority? - uppermost in his mind, the baby and the fire.

SR: What was baby DeOrr like that morning?
[slight pause]
SR: Do you remember?
IR: Yeaah – I think he, he was playing and trying’a throw stuff in the fire and his dad got after him for that, you know, just like a normal two year old

I don't know if 'just like a normal two year old' is similar to 'just like a normal day'.


Isaac is contradicting himself - he claims he and Bob walked all the way up to the reservoir, but also Bob couldn't help search because he can't get round much with the oxygen tank.

I think 'gas' is for driving and the change to 'fuel' might mean he was thinking they wanted it for a fire.

Alexandra said...

Hey Jude said

"I don't know if 'just like a normal two year old' is similar to 'just like a normal day'."

It reminds me of Justin DiPietro saying Ayla got into a fight with another 2 year old in the non-existent Chuckie Cheese ball pit.

My first instinct is that it is a fabrication much like Justin's story, albeit they may have created these stories for different reason.

My belief after studying the case is that DeOrr was never at the campground. Isaac may be fabricating this story to "prove" DeOrr was there but linguistically the parents gave no indicators DeOrr was ever at the campground despite stating that he was there. There was not a single detail about any activity, mood, verbalizations, waking, sleeping, eating involving DeOrr except the statement from Dad that"we thought he would be good by the fire with Grandpa".

I don't believe DeOrr died of accidental injury. It just doesn't add up why the parents would not have sought medical treatment. Dad DeOrr also knew searchers would not find him since DeOrr was nowhere in the area. This is the one case I think there is a possibility he was sold to someone.

The parents lie about him being spotted with a "gentleman" who bought him candy when he was bawling and filthy came from somewhere...there is no proof that anyone actually did see that happen yet why and how did they come up with that? Particularly since they linked it back to themselves saying that they were actually there at the story at one point and that the "gentleman" was driving the same vehicle as Dad DeOrr. I think Linguistically they are leaking the fact there was some other "gentleman" that came into play in DeOrr's disappearance. I think DeOrr may have been sold.

Anonymous said...

I think Justin even at one point said something to that effect that "normal" 2 year olds get into fights or that that is typical behavior?

Anonymous said...

Maybe if we could all work on listing the aberrations, the peculiar details offered by Mom and Dad, in the case it would form some kind of picture of what happened.

I can begin the list:

According the Mom and Dad:

DeOrr was wearing oversized cowboy boots

DeOrr was spotted by a "gentleman" driving same truck as Dad DeOrr who bought DeOrr candy while he filthy and just bawling.

DeOrr left behind his blankie and his "teddy" and that's how they knew "something was really wrong".

They spoke of the blankie at the press conference as an "exact copy of the blankie" which may be leakage that DeOrr actually does have his blankie (parents often buy duplicates of these things that kids are so attached to that they carry them everywhere in case they lose the item.)

Grandma claims she disposed of a DeOrr's diaper hanging from a tree in the campground during search. I don't believe DeOrr was ever campground but is this leakage that Grandma at one point did dispose of DeOrr's final diaper before he was sold?

Dad claims he wanted to show DeOrr minnows.

I know it sounds crazy, but there is just some type of portrait linguistically that suggests to me that they told DeOrr he was going somewhere to meet someone, maybe told him he could wear his favorite shoes, somewhere they tried to make him feel happy to go to to meet someone, maybe described the person as being a "cowboy" so you get to wear your cowboy boots?!?

Hey Jude said...

I don't recall that the parents were ever asked any questions about how he was that day, or what he was doing - I agree they haven't volunteered any memories, at least in public. Is Jessica's post about July 4th the last memory perhaps?

I have been listening to Davey's latest sermon. This caught my attention:

'Our city is full of a lot of problems and what hits me is when those problems seem to come really close to home.'

He self corrects, rubs his head, turns away from the audience, and returns to his notes - he briefly loses concentration. I think as he realises that he said 'seem' rather than 'when those problems come close to home'. Even then, just 'close' - there's not a problem closer to home than a home invasion, and the murder of one's wife.

It"s from around thirty-seven minutes in.

I am wondering, is that a misspeak followed by a 'duh' moment - or could it be minimising and distancing language due to trauma?

I find a softer speaking Davey and that his voice is breaking somewhat, it sounds to me as if he is suppressing emotion at times. Generally, I think it was a pretty good sermon, and he's on top form, excited about #forindy week, going to a rough part of the city.

Anonymous said...

His arm muscles are weird. His upper arms are really developed, but I don't know how he got the back of his arm muscles so large unless he was doing exercises that would also work the lower arm muscles as I used to be a gym rat, so I know this stuff. He would have to be either pulling weights down or doing exercises where he places his hands on a chair behind him and does push up type up moves. Yet his lower arms are not very muscular. In short, I don't understand what types of exercises he is doing where he is getting that kind of bulk in upper arms but none in lower arms. Steroids?

Alexandra said...

Re: DeOrr...the parents had a lengthy press conference and it would have been natural to mention something, anything about DeOrr's activities/moods/food eaten anything while at campground. The fact they did not mention a single thing alerted me to the fact DeOrr was never at the campground.

There was not a single detail.

Examples of types of things NOT said.

ex. We fed DeOrr a hotdog.
ex. DeOrr was a little cranky because he was late for his nap.
ex. DeOrr wanted Daddy to carry him around.
ex. DeOrr was playing with his matchbox cars.
ex. DeOrr was crying because he was tired.

I guarantee DeOrr was never up there at the campground. I said it months ago and now the sheriff is saying it.

Hey Jude said...

I don't think it happened there either - would like to know when anyone besides family last saw DeOrr.

Anonymous said...

Last confirmed sighting was July 3rd.

John Mc Gowan said...

Anon said

"They spoke of the blankie at the press conference as an "exact copy of the blankie"

Iv'e just watched the interview again in regards to the "Blanket"

Journalist: "Tell me about the blanket"

Jessica: "This is his blanket, he doesn't go anywhere without his blanket, his cup or his monkey. And all 3 of them were left at the campground. And.."

This is the first confirmation that it "is his blanket"

Vernal buts in..

Vernal: "All 3 has to be with him"

Over talk

Jessica: "Yes"

Vernal: "He will trip over them if he has to, they are going with him. This is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, he hasn't been without these, things"

Jessica: "This is the blanket we brought him home in from the hospital , this is his, this is what comforts him, ant..and all times

This is the second confirmation that it is his "Blanket" and what they brought him in from the hospital, this is his." This is the third confirmation

Vernal jumps in and says: "this is an exact replica of a security blanket, for everybody this is his actual blanket, he does not anywhere without it and that's our other concern, why?"

So, what is it?

Is "it his"?
It is what they brought him home from hospital in"
Is it an "exact replica"?
Is it his "Actual blanket" (Comparison)

I believe that it is DeOrrs blanket and not an "exact replica" There is no need to say this, especially given that they both confirmed that it "is" DeOrrs.

Has the blanket been tested for DNA etc.

Jessica is holding on to it. Pulling it into her body. Not only that, she has it wrapped around her arm.

Think of "Cuddlecat" and the mccanns.

The Sheep said...

He will trip over them if he has to

Why is that necessary? What brought "trip over them" into his language?

Nic said...

Vernal: "He will trip over them if he has to, they are going with him. This is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, he hasn't been without these, things"

Present perfect continuous means during this time he hasn't been without (his blanket, cup and monkey)

Vernal jumps in and says: "this is an exact replica of a security blanket, for everybody this is his actual blanket,

In this interview they say the blanket is a replica. It could be for two reasons the first, LE had the original and were testing it, or secondly, the blanket was with jr. and they purchased a replica to demonstrate to the public during the interview what to look for. i.e., if anyone saw this exact blanket with a two-year-old little boy, take a closer look at the boy. They were stressing the importance of the blanket to jr. saying he wouldn't be without it.

"All 3 has to be with him"
has not (have - goes with 3)/is/are

However, in the hardcopy People interview sr. is reported to be holding jr.'s monkey (one of a few stuffed animals they were allowed to have).


"This is the blanket we brought him home in from the hospital , this is his, this is what comforts him, ant..and all times

Comforts - emotional balm; what about mom? Dad?

"this" is close
"this" is sensitive
"this" belongs to jr.
"this" comforts him
"this" is very sensitive

Nic said...

DeOrr Kunz was gripping his blue baby blanket as he scampered around the campfire where his father was cooking up a breakfast of eggs, sausage and hash browns. “You’re going to trip and fall into the fire, or your blanket is going to catch fire,” the boy’s father, also named DeOrr, recalls telling his son. “Or something bad is going to happen.”

fall into the fire
blanket going to catch fire
something bad is going to happen

It is confirmed by IR that jr. was playing around the fire and sr. was "getting after him". So that is confirmed. Sr. warns him of possible consequences to his ("normal") two-year-old behaviour. He takes us one step beyond burning, but doesn't say "what". Just that it is "something bad" and he warns his son if he doesn't stop, "something bad will happen.

According to IR, all three went to get gas. So assume that jr. was okay after breakfast and didn't lose his blanket in the fire (inconsolable) or was burned (screaming in pain). That leaves the third prediction. "Something bad" going to (future) happen to jr.

It would be interesting to speak to sr. to learn what a "bad" consequence of not settling down around the fire would mean to him. i.e., Time out?

Hey Jude said...

He stepped and tripped on his blanket?


I think there were two blankets, both DeOrr's, both the same - so DeOrr says it is an exact replica (slip up, as they claimed baby DeOrr left his blanket at the campground) - then he self corrects and says it is his actual blanket (true, but it is the back-up blanket) - I think his best/original blanket either went in the fire, or he was buried in it


If last sighting was July 3 (is there a source for that?) what were the family doing on July 4 - likely partying, fireworks, bonfires...did no-one see them on July 4? Did they go camping that holiday, and events unfolded a few days earlier than claimed - the Timber Creek trip and 'abduction' staged?

Hey Jude said...

I get that the truck is very sensitive to DeOrr, and that doesn't go with my accident with the fire theory.

Nic said...

LE have announced jr. is dead and whatever befell jr. was "sinister".

All the pictures of Mitchell show her with her eyes averted. I have continuously looked at the images and wondered why. IR recalled in his interview that she couldn't look at him in the face after jr. went "missing". So I'm wondering, is this the look of "shame"?

When standing beside sr. there is a chasm between the two of them, she looking down at his lower body. Always looking downwards and sideways at him like she is trying to distance herself from [him].

They all report they went to get gas after breakfast and while at the store they were (paraphrasing) going to buy jr. candy (?) a treat (?). Or they bought him candy (fish candy) donut holes and potato wedges.

The parents describe a "gentleman driving the same truck as sr.

gentleman - a chivalrous, courteous, or honourable man

They associate this "gentle" man with a "fifty" and bawling jr. who bought him candy. But nobody can corroborate this "unknown" man. He is only known to the parents.


Nic said...

Waving to Hey Jude! Thanks for the transcripts. I'm at a campground trying to access sketchy wifi, LOL... Trying to get my "analysis" posted....

Nic said...

Going back to the hardcopy interview:

sr. distancing himself from jr (discovering not with GGP, but IR says that Mitchell was following him and sr. and jr. were lagging behind)
minnows, water
jr disappears
911 call (Mitchell)
sr. hatred for "state"
mom - "what are you doing", stark reality, door closing, water abound (fishing hole, creek)

It would be interesting to know if the wording "gripping" (his blanket) was introduced by sr. during that interview and was being parroted by the interviewer or if it was injected by the author for dramatic effect.

The "last" diaper being disposed of by the grandmother is interesting. Is that Mitchell's mom or his mom?

What I post is my opinion

Nic said...

It will be interesting to hear where the cadaver dog/s hit. Wasn't one of the hits a vehicle? I've tried to google recent reports about the cadaver hits, but only the old reports percolate up. Nothing about recent reports about the old residence/cadaver dogs hitting or a vehicle. The wifi keeps dropping so this is very frustrating for me.

Am I confusing these facts with another case?

John Mc Gowan said...

Deorr Kunz Jr. on BrainScratch Searchlight

Hey Jude said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hey Jude said...

Hi, Nic - happy camping. deleting and reposting my previous post as I didn't make clear where your quote ended and my thought began.

Nic said:

DeOrr Kunz was gripping his blue baby blanket as he scampered around the campfire where his father was cooking up a breakfast of eggs, sausage and hash browns. “You’re going to trip and fall into the fire, or your blanket is going to catch fire,” the boy’s father, also named DeOrr, recalls telling his son. “Or something bad is going to happen.”

fall into the fire
blanket going to catch fire
something bad is going to happen


Getting burned, falling in the fire would be something bad - but 'something bad' does sound quite threatening when he could have chosen to say 'Come from here/there - it's dangerous, it's hot - you might get burned'. A toddler is more likely to understand 'hot' and 'dangerous' than 'something bad'.

There were no confirmed sightings of baby DeOrr at the store - the clerks didn't remember seeing him there.

Maybe something happened between leaving and returning from the store. Though if DeOrr was never really there on that trip, obviously he would not have been seen. Isaac insists he was there - I do wonder if they went camping earlier in the week and Isaac did see DeOrr playing round the fire, and blanked whatever might have happened next, if even he knew. If he went fishing, maybe he did not witness anything. If maybe he avoided them all day that Thursday 9th, not wanting to go with them again - but they caught him at home eventually, and if he was pressurised to go on a cover up trip. He says he was nervous round them, because he didn't know them - maybe he just was scared of them with good reason if he had witnessed what happened to DeOrr, or just knew something had happened because he was no longer there - out in the middle of nowhere, and was stuck with them again, in the middle of nowhere. In the earlier interview he said how he liked to be helpful to everyone, and didn't give a reliable denial when he was asked how he felt about people suspecting him of involvement. I wonder if he has been intimidated - dunno, too much imagination. Plus the truck is sensitive, so I should stop going on about the fire.

Even so - they are now talking about the fire - a two year old being allowed to play and throw, or try to throw things into a fire, whilst trailing a blanket - it doesn't get much more hazardous than that.

Alexandra said...

I havent had time to read through all comments...I will later when freed up, but regarding the blankie...Im going w what Dad says before he self-corrects...Im going with "it is an exact replica". It is not DeOrr's original blankie, bc DeOrr has his blankie IMO.

Hey Jude said...

Say they had sold him - someone would have spotted him by now - someone somewhere would have made the connection, his face is so well known and two year olds don't appear from nowhere.

The family put it out that there were two vehicles of interest in the area - that was not confirmed by LE. Even so, there is something about two additional vehicles up there which the family doesn't want associated with them - also Frank Vilt introduced Jessica's new story about the guy with the black truck at the store. I thought maybe they called family out to help them - but conceivably, there was some type of rendezvous.

I just watched some of the video John posted - what say they were ending the relationship, DeOrr didn't think baby DeOrr was his, neither wanted the child - conceivably, they could have sold him. But how, if he wasn't even there? Also, I'd think computer checks would show up searches for people wanting to adopt or 'rehome' no longer required children. If they did sell him, not to a family, but a random guy in a black truck, the story might have had a very sinister end. But, what in the language indicates they sold him? I can't see it - though DeOrr was sensitive about being the father - 'as his father' - 'speaking as his father' etc. I thought that was maybe because he felt inadequate alongside Jessica's former husband, who got the helicopter from Montana, raised the other two kids, and so forth, while DeOrr and Jessica couldn't keep their eyes fast on one.


Alexandra said...

Hey Jude,

I just read your most recent comment (still tied up so havent had time to read all comments).
I think if they sold him, it was preplanned, as was the alibi to go camping in a spot where Dad says people could look down and see them camping without their knowing (in other words, the "perfect" kidnapping spot in the Dad's estimation).
. I think they sold him at some random location they arranged.
Just for reference, does anyone have the link to the story and picture of kid who looked EXACTLY like DeOrr wandering alone in motel lobby...then unidentified woman came in from the street and said he was her ID checked.
If someone has him they may be dressing him as a girl, long hair, plus a 2 year old will look much different at 4 yrs etc.

Also DeOrr looked exactly like his Dad so I dont know why Dad would have doubted he was the father.

Alexandra said...


That is one of the reasons they were looking so hard at Scott Peterson is because he turned his phone completely off in Diane Sawyer interview shortly after Lacy disappeared.

Thank you for the info about the monkey.

It seems the original Blankie, monkey are with DeOrr. There is a lot of sensitivity surrounding these items.

What are you picking up on with the statement

"This is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, he hasn't been without these, things".

Alexandra said...

Just for reference: Here is the link with the picture of the child who looks exactly like DeOrr who was wandering in a motel lobby shortly after DeOrr disappeared next to a picture of DeOrr. Sheriff says it's not him bc an unidentified woman came in and claimed into lobby after a certain time period and claimed him.

I have never been 100% certain that this child was not in fact DeOrr. The resemblance is uncanny and as far as I know the woman who claimed him showed no ID.

Anonymous said...

What makes you think the Stanton, Calif., authorities didn't check her ID? Just because she wasn't publicly identified doesn't mean the police don't know where she is.

Anonymous said...

Know WHO she is, I meant above.

Alexandra said...

When it was discussed months ago, the clerk had said that a woman came into the motel and claimed the boy who looked like DeOrr after he had been with the clerk for almost an hour I believe and that noone asked for the woman's ID--just took her at her word that the boy was her son. Absolutely nowhere have I heard they checked any birth records...or even birth certificates, although any birth certificate could have certainly been a forgery if DeOrr was sold.
Probably they would have had to have gotten a court order to check birth records since that is private information.
All the sheriff is or has stated was that the boy who looks like DeOrr was claimed by a woman who claimed to be his mother.
Absolutely nowhere have I read the woman was ID'd or that they checked birth records, in other words that the "Mom" claims she gave birth at hospital A on date A and that there are any records that confirm that.

Alexandra said...

From the article I posted

"Motel workers contacted police and, according to authorities, the child was claimed by a woman who said she was his mother two hours later."

I have read that the boy was claimed in the motel lobby.

The boy looks exactly like DeOrr but thinner which means he would have lost weight.

Alexandra said...

Cops may have just discredited the possibility because of the improbability. The kid looks exactly like him!

All we can do is like at the aberrations in the case.

Extreme sensitivity around blankie and monkey.

He was not at campground.

Multiple people covering for whatever happened. Including Grandma. She knows.

Alexandra said...

Should say "Look at the aberrations"

This heat is making me kind of out of it...lots of typos today.

Alexandra said...

I think Isaac, etc are throwing out red herrings with the fire, etc. They are just trying to spin yarns about what DeOrr was doing while at campground ie. trying to throw things in the fire, because DeOrr was not at the campground.

Alexandra said...

This is what needs to be looked at very closely is this statement by Isaac from above interview:

"Right – he had kinda a hard time walking anyway, cause he was only like two"

WHAT did he walk away from? Isaac? The Mom and Dad and Isaac?

WHAT or WHO (more likely) was he walking towards?

Alexandra said...

Sorry I read it wrong...the heat is really getting to me.

BUT, and I know this was discussed before:

DeOrr WALKING is very sensitive. Why?

The shoes were too big
He was clumping around
He had kinda a hard time walking anyway

What does this mean?
Where did he have difficulty walking?
Did Isaac see him walk somewhere and he was having difficulty walking? Noone holding his hand, helping him?

What happened?

Anonymous said...

Alexandra Re: July 14, 2016 at 9:54 PM boy who looks like DeOrr in CA

Sheriff Bowerman has said numerous times that they investigated and the boy in Stanton, CA is not DeOrr and that local authorities knew the boy and his family from previous interactions. Lt. Jeff Hallock told PEOPLE that authorities are confident the little boy, who was found by security "wandering the hotel," was returned to his rightful mother..."Deputies then discovered the mother was staying in one of the rooms." ... the mother told authorities she fell asleep. After searching her room, authorities felt comfortable leaving the boy with the woman, who remains unnamed.

Nic said...

@ Alexander 8:19

""This is the first time since he's been born, pretty much, he hasn't been without these, things"."

IMO, it's the, "what is stated in the negative is very important" red flag. Doubly so because we have two negatives (has *not* been *without*). In this context I am considering "without" a negative because the parents have stressed how important the blanket is to jr. so there is a very negative connotation to being "without" his symbol of comfort at "all times".

"been" is passive and weakens "without"

"pretty much" weakens the assertion of "first time since"

Sr. isn't using jr's name, more distancing.

The way the parents talk, on one hand they insinuate that DeOrr will be with this identical blanket. Then they say "this is" his blanket.

At face value, this sentence, is telling me that this is not the first time since jr. was born that he *has* been without his blanket/monkey/cup. Worse, that he wouldn't be without the blanket, but he has been separated from "these things". From what I discovered in one picture in google images from the beginning of the case, the stuffed monkey sr. is holding is *not* the same monkey depicted with jr. So I'm wondering if in fact, "these things" *are* with DeOrr the reason being that there is a sinister reason *why* replicas for demonstration purposes would be necessary.

It's so frustrating not being able to find that picture because it demonstrates that the monkey LE has allowed sr. to keep is not the same monkey.


Nic said...

For some reason my previous post has evaporated so again, this is a link to DeOrr jr. with his monkey, blanket and sippy cup.

As well, John, at 3:20 in the link you provided to the unedited interview, you can see Mitchell turn her phone off during the interview. This is just days into jr. going missing. Reminiscent of BJD looking perturbed her landline was interrupting her 15 minutes with the local media when Hailey was missing. This is unexpected. Projecting - I would look like I was being electrocuted if my phone buzzed in my pocket if one of my kids was missing. I would not be "ho hum, 'ignore'".

Nic said...

Further to my post at 11:57, I don't know if I was being clear, but my impression is that DeOrr is in no need of "comfort" anymore and he is separated from *all* things material. Whether DeOrr jr. will be recovered *with* his blanket and monkey is anyone's guess. I'm thinking they were burned.


Nic said...

My impression about IR is that he was being set-up to be the fall guy. He has a record and charges associated with him have led some to believe that his is a "stranger danger" scenario and jr.s disappearance would focus entirely on IR because of his background. I find this interesting. Leakage? jmo

They supposedly went by IR's place four times (really?) to get him. After the second time, maybe the third, most would give up and assume he wasn't interested in going. But the three adults were *very* persistent in IR going fishing with them. It's not like IR was the one who knew the fishing spot. It was GGP. So what "importance" was there of IR being there that they had to circle his place four times before they finally connected with him.

There is mention of whiskey. IR's memory is "foggy" and he can't remember a lot. There is mention of whiskey "for other people" to drink (distancing). I'm wondering if IR stayed up late, by himself, and drank a lot. Why he would sleep until noon the next day, (hungover) safe to get up and relieve himself.

IR: Uh, Jessica and DeOrr didn’t – um, I th - Bobby, brought so - Bob brought some whiskey and stuff up
SR: Did Bob drink any of the whiskey?
IR: I think he might had a coup -uh – actually, no Bob doesn’t drink anymore, so, no.
SR: Okay, but he had whiskey?
IR: He had it up there, but he’sa- brought it with him for other people to drink if they wanted some
SR: Did you guys go to bed right away that night, or did you stay up by the fire, and just kinda enjoy it out there?
IR: I stayed up for a little while – I can’t remember what time I went to bed.

He got up in the morning, went to the bathroom and then went back to bed.

IR: I don’t re – I think I got up first for a lil’whle, you know, n’went and used the restroom and everything and then I went back to bed but and then, I can’t remember who got up first
SR: Did you guys all eat breakfast together?
IR: Um, breakfast – if we even had breakfast that - that day. I think we, I think we did have breakfast that m’n –
SR: What was baby DeOrr like that morning?
[slight pause]
SR: Do you remember?
IR: Yeaah – I think he, he was playing and trying’a throw stuff in the fire and his dad got after him for that, you know, just like a normal two year old
SR: So, after breakfast what did you guys – did you go fishing, did you go hiking, what did you do?
IR: [laughing] I went back to bed ‘cause I was still tired!
SR: So you don’t know what Jessica and DeOrr did?
IR: No.
SR: When did you get up for the day, was it in the afternoon?
IR: Ah, it was pr-about about noon or so

There is an assumption in play here. That IR had breakfast *with* the Kunz's. Given what he said, (got up, relieved himself and went back to bed until noon) I think he *heard* from his sleeping bag, sr. getting after jr about being rambunctious around the fire.

Nic said...

Sr. said they (sr., Mitchell and jr.) kept their distance because they sr/IR "got off on the wrong foot". So they arrived to the camp site in the dark, it's unknown if IR saw or heard sr and jr interact that morning, and then they left for the store where nobody can say they saw jr. at the time the parents say. Only that there is a third party at the store who says at 6 o'clock pm, they saw a filthy little boy fitting jr.'s description, bawling, in a black truck and a gentleman buying candy for him. It would be interesting to know if that eye witness is deemed reliable. I doubt it.

Then IR says that GGP showed him where the fishing holes were. When the young family came back he lead them to a place a GGP's request. All IR can say is that Mitchell was behind him for sure and *assumed* sr and jr were lagging behind them.

The crux of the whole thing is knowing if IR's impression of jr. being a "normal" two-year old was based on what he "heard" from everyone around him, or if t's what he "saw". I wonder this because they arrived at nearly dark, IR says he gets up to relieve himself but goes back to bed (doesn't say he had breakfast, (he begins by saying, if they even) and then says "we" not "I"). So insinuating there was breakfast, but definitely that he didn't eat it ... he got up at Noon.

Then he's leading Mitchell to the fishing after being shown where to fish by GGP dragging his oxygen tank. He assumes sr *and* jr are lagging, definitely there is not Mitchell and sr. together behind him, just Mitchell.

When jr goes missing, again it's about one person said and/or thought. Not what they "saw". GGP says he doesn't know where he is. Mitchell says she "screams" what do you mean he's gone. What do you mean he's missing." IMO, perfectly placed emotion.

(That's not what GGP supposedly said.)

IMO, IR is simply recanting what he heard while "moving about" the party. Not what he *saw*. But he was the "unknown" wild card with the sketchy past. A stranger they circled four times for so he wouldn't miss his ride. Coincidentally making him suspicious in many's eyes and a would be "obvious" target for LE.

To me this sounds like a set up.

Something happened *before* they got up there and I agree with Amanda, he was never one the mountain in the first place.


Anonymous said...

In all the early pics of baby deorr he is holding a green blanket, yet his mother is holding a blue one. I believe the green blanket held evidence and had to be disposed of with his body.

Nic said...

Let's not forget the "last" diaper change the grandmother (? was it the grandmother) says she disposed of. If so, is this the same person who failed her poly because she was "tired"?

Nic said...

John, I just watched the Searchlight episode you linked. Wow. The scenario/motive he refers to hearing at the end -- wow~!

Alexandra said...

Nic, Yes Isaac " thinks" he was playing because DeOrr was not playing--he wasnt even there.

I am in agreement regarding DeOrr's comfort items--they are with DeOrr...thank you for providing monkey pic...Did they bury these items with DeOrr or did they allow DeOrr to take these items with him when he was sold?
Confidence of CA police that the boy was not DeOrr is very dumb...they need to check birth records to be sure.
I have reported 12 yrs ago what I had every reason to suspect was a man with a kidnapped sibling who worked at the county jail told me what I was describing absolutely needed to be reported to police...I physically went down to the police station...they slammed the window in my face bc I had encountered the man with suspected kidnapped child 8 hours earlier. The man was black as night, English accent, well-dressed, charming, spoke to me for almost an hour while my kid played with his kid and other kids at sandbox at park. His supposed bio kid was blond-haired, blue-eyed, white as snow, no English accent, the man claiming her Mom lived in area about 100 miles away...he kept insisting she was his bio daughter with no explanation for why she was 100% Caucasian and he was black as night. The guy was so charming he could have sold you the Brooklyn bridge. Cops could have cared less what I reported and this is with blatantly obvious signs the man was lying about being the girl's father.

Nic said...

Here's a dilly. It's hard to decide which part of her statement to highlight.

DeOrr's Grandmother: I have nothing to hide:


Clegg said she took a polygraph about the case at the request of investigators.

"I was told that they were inconclusive due to lack of sleep, um because uh I did that polygraph the night of the fundraiser, very exhausted," she said. "But I have volunteered to do another one."

She said she was committed to helping investigators find out what happened to little DeOrr Jr., and reiterated that she had nothing to do with his disappearance.

"And there is nothing that I will not cooperate with in this investigation," Clegg said. "Um, th-they can come and talk to me anytime, anyplace and I'm just not worried about anything that-s that I could be caught up in at all."

Anonymous said...

Alexandra @ 4:35, that's amazing. ABB once told the same story. What are the odds you two would have that exact same experience?

Anonymous said...

It's odd that they all went to Isacc's place a number of times before locating him.

Surely he has a phone. Why the need to go, physically, to his house 3 or 4 times? Why not ring or text him? Weird.

Nic said...


Here is the monkey sr. used when speaking to the media

Here is jr.'s monkey

Hey Jude said...

Maybe Isaac turned off his phone to avoid them. Jessica says her grandfather went to Isaac's four or five times and then finally found him at home - so perhaps even six times. Seems they were not going anywhere without Isaac that day.

Hey Jude said...

DeOrr is photographed with two monkeys, the blue and the brown - here he is photographed with the brown one which DeOrr Sr still has.

The blue monkey may belong to DeOrr's little cousin, who was also in the larger version of the blue monkey photo - it has been cropped.

Nic said...

Thanks, HJ. (I don't have a FB account, soI have restricted viewing if at all when pointed there.) :0)

I did see a pic of him and a little blond girl kissing, but there are no monkeys in the pic. He was wearing the same green plaid shirt. I'm assuming she's his cousin.

They only mention his monkey (singular), so I'd say you're probably right about the brown monkey being his.

Hey Jude said...

Here he is with the blue monkey

Anon "I" said...

Uh, WOW!! I watched the part that was referred to about DB's preaching on

Right after that 38 minute part, DB goes on to explain how the biblical
recounting of the legion of demons who possessed a man showed that
Jesus "gave them permission" to transfer to pigs who ran off a cliff.
Did DB give someone permission?

I would really, really appreciate a snap-shot of the crowd to see how
many he is preaching to.... I have seen a different pastor preaching
to 3,000 in a small church of 100. It's unsettling.

a said...

PS: I read my words again and it sounded snotty. I'm not really asking for a snap-shot to be provided. I meant it for curiosity's sake. I'm just wondering how many people are really there or if there are a scant few scattered throughout the space and he's working them over. They are a very quiet crowd from the short time I listened.

Hey Jude said...

Re Isaac and his change in language from 'gas' to 'fuel'. I am reading back through earlier articles and see that such a change in language can represent:

A change in reality
That the subject is not working from experiential memory

So, maybe no fire, no memory.