Monday, August 1, 2016

Story Telling in a Statement for Analysis

In a recent murder case, analysts and analysts in training were challenged with a transcript that was very frustrating as it was in "Black Urban Speak" or "ebonics."  It was so difficult that some portions of it needed to be translated to English but the victim's family needs justice, as does society.  Analysts fearing political correct "fascism" cannot facilitate justice.  

In the analysis, we viewed the bastardization of the English language including a historical view that shows a cultural retreat to overt simplicity and ignorance, as well as some cultural distinctives including penchant for repetition and present tense verbs that directly impacts the analysis.  

In the end, the analysts were able to determine guilt, motive, and were able to specifically identify the exact number of shots fired, and by whom.

The lead investigator said, the team " nailed it."

It was difficult work, but perseverance and the ability to shift paradigm of principle led to success. By the conclusion of a very long day of training, analysts not only entered the language of the perpetrator, but 'entered his soul', that is, his personality traits, desires, and even some of his childhood.  

Although they will never receive specific recognition, their work is an inspiration that took the analysis to an art form.   

For some of these nation wide experts, it is becoming their norm.  They not only know truth from deception, but they are giving a psychological profile that matches formally conducted evaluations, and showing the appropriate direction for both the investigation and the interview. 


In an upcoming new course to be released on "Distinctives in Statement Analysis" (for advanced students and analysts only), we cover:

1.  Story Telling Recognition and Analysis.
2.  Black Urban Speak and what principles must be used, which may be lessened in weight, and how to differentiate between cultural repetition and sensitivity in repetition.
3.  Psychological Profiles and Interviewing.

4.  Specific Areas to Cover:  

What does a "borderline" interview look like?

How does one interview anti-social or oppositional subjects?

What does bi-polar look like in an interview?

Why is it important to identify disassociation in sex abuse victims?

...and much more.

5.  Various Cultures and the Impact upon Language

6.  IQ and Language

7.  Shifting of Language and Analysis 

8.  Shifting of Morals and Analysis 

9.  Human Nature Within Cultural Shifting...

10. Analytical Interviewing:  Advanced.  How to best elicit a confession or admission from a subject.  

and more.  

Here we have a video of a German politician, Selin Goren, who:

1.  Claimed she was raped
2.  Reported to police that she was only robbed
3.  Deliberately added a perpetrator to the list of suspects, by nationality, to falsely blame a German citizen;
4.  Later, returned to police to report the rape on top of the theft;
5.  Wrote an apology letter on Facebook to "all refugees."

Does political belief (narrative) trump rape?

Rape is an intrusive, violent, sexual, and highly personal assault; so powerful in impact, that it requires its own chapter within Statement Analysis instruction to be able to discern truth from deception. 

Is it possible for someone to hold to such a political belief that it would overrule instinct about rape?

Or, is it possible that she was not raped? 

It is all but impossible to ignore her body language via video, and the English translation is not always first person, therefore,

The analyst should attempt to reconstruct the event from a distance in perspective. 

No small or minor issues within language can be used in translations.

What is story telling?

In short, this is something that investigators, by instinct, say, "he is telling a story here!" but do not always know how to explain why they feel so strongly about a section of a statement.

They are often correct, but should never dismiss story telling as lacking value because the words come from somewhere.

Story Telling, in Statement Analysis, is often seen as unnecessary slowing down of a pace of a statement, within the context of persuasion, rather than reporting, and rarely ever contain direct lying, instead "counting on you to interpret" his words.

In this video, what do you think happened?

Was she raped?

What do you make of her lies?

What do you make of her explanation of her lies?

What do you make of her behavior?

Hint:  Begin your the beginning.

Post your findings in the comments section:


Unknown said...

I think she lied, however, I don't know enough SA to explain why I think that. Also, when they 'story tell' is that different then when someone does the free speech part? Never interrupt, let them say whatever words they pull? I'm loving SA, I cannot wait to actually know what I'm doing!!!!
Thank you Peter!


Anonymous said...

I believe she is telling the truth.

She feared retaliation against the refugees as well as people coming out and saying she deserved it.
I am not saying what she did was ok at all but I am glad that she went back and told the truth that a German was not involved.

At the end it says she feels as though she is the offender- almost that she feels guilty that she went and told that the rape occurred at all and would take it back if she could - probably bc she is now ostracized.

And the end is telling- as her "offenders" have never been found and, as the reporter states, "whether or not they were really refugees isn't known."


That is all.

Nic said...


1. never misses a single demonstration about racism
never doesn’t mean she doesn’t
single is extra wording making missing demonstrations about racism sensitive
racist demonstrations are singled out, what other sorts of demonstrations are held? Singling out “racism” makes racism sensitive

2. soon she noticed she was not alone
“soon” akin to “all of a sudden” or “suddenly”, “soon” sets up the scene

3. when I saw them first they sat on a park bench, and they were drinking. I felt that they were inebriated and my first thoughts were yeah, well, typical average youth drinking at night with friends on the bench because they can’t at home. I didn’t give it another thought. It just seemed like a totally daily situation.
typical average - extra wording, is this like saying “normal”?
what is stated in the negative is sensitive and likely opposite to her thinking, i.e., she gave [it] thought
“daily situation - is like repeating “typical average” or like saying “normal”. Persuading that nothing about that night was typical. Sensitivity noted.

4. and I just walked on by (to the swing)
out of order 1) she was already on the swing and then noticed she was not alone. She picked up arabic or kurdish words. She already said when she saw them “first” they sat on a park bench implying they arrived after her.
“to the swing” is extra wording, “I walked on by” can stand by itself
“just” implies an alternative to walked on by, what would be the alternative to walk on by to the swing?

5. Narrator says she said:
the (three) were suddenly standing behind her and harassed her
suddenly (all of a sudden,) story telling
standing - calm posture
“standing" contradicts the fright/fligh/emotional response of being harassed by a group in the early morning hours in a park

6. I didn’t want to start a fight, I just grabbed my purse (?) and walked away at a fast pace
What is stated in the negative is sensitive. Was she confrontational?
if she “just” walked on by to the swing, from where did she grab her purse?
walked away contradicts the pace of “grabbing” her purse. The timing doesn’t match.

7. Three four meters along, I was pushed
she doesn’t assign pushing to anyone,
“was pushed” is passive, distancing

8. That I was robbed and that it was a mixed group
The word “that" is repeated and is distancing
I was robbed, distancing language
"it was a mixed group", not “they” or how many of them there were, their age and whether it just male
distancing language, she does not say, i.e., three refugees robbed me
“it” she conceals identity by calling the group “mixed” group, she does not say, “they” were a mixed group, she says “it” was a mixed group

9. there were migrants among them, but there was a German there, too
initially she identifies others along with migrants, but then says there was “a” German there, too; she reported hearing Arabic or Kurdish words, but no German, now she introduces “a” German

10. And uh… the infringement I omitted, too
“and” missing information
“the infringement” is used instead of rape, she doesn’t assigned the action of being rape upon herself
she does not say, I did not tell police they raped me. Instead she says “the infringement”,
“infringement” is not assigned a pronoun
“omitted” is something left out, which is not the same as lying to police about being raped
She does not report going to the hospital to be examined.

Nic said...

11. Germans were part of as well
She identified only one German, but the narrator says plural

12. Why did you lie?
I lied because I was afraid this would be, uh, abused by the right in order to stir hatred against the refugees, which right after Cologne and Silvester night had risen dramatically, and I just didn’t want my story to somehow, give them a boost, especially after they found out that it was me, so they’d say that, yeah, look here, you leftists, now you too get raped by migrants and refugees, so you should finally figure it out, too.

In context, the word “just” to her story about being raped going public is representative of another agenda in play.
She says “you” when talking about being raped by migrants and refugees, but she does not say she, herself was raped by using the pronoun “I”.
She does not bring up the other crime she reported, being robbed, as potential “abuse” by the right. She only talks about “the rape”.

13. Uh, no, but I also didn’t feel that the other would be more right.
but negates that which comes before
what is stated in the negative is important, it’s easier for her to say what she didn’t feel rather than what she felt
“the other” is to imply telling the truth about being raped, although she will not specify what the truth was/is (that she was raped). She is distancing herself from lying.

14. First I cried, I cried and cried
The need to persuade what emotion she felt. Saying she cried, repeatedly, makes crying very sensitive and unlikely.

15. and I couldn’t sleep either, I just, I ...couldn't calm down, and uh yeah…
“couldn’t sleep” what is stated in the negative is important
“just” is indicative of something else to sleeping and crying
“couldn’t calm down”, again what is stated in the negative is important and it is easier for her to recant what she couldn’t do rather than what she did
two negatives (need to persuade) make a positive, it is likely this young lady was not crying and very likely she had no problem sleeping that night.

16. I would have to say one of the worst nights of my life, to then sit there … and then to also realize that, oh shit Selin, you didn’t report them, that’s not good.
she does not say what about the night made it the worst night. She does not mention being raped (or robbed).
then to also realize, is like saying “all of a sudden” - story telling
“oh shit”, is perfectly placed emotion (!)

17. “you didn’t report them, that’s not good”
Distancing, she says “you” (third party), not “I”
she does not say “report that I was raped”, or “they raped me”; she does not say that which she should have reported the assailants for, i.e., rape
“that is not good” what is reported in the negative is important. To report what was not good, (that, which is distancing) is likely “good”
Deception indicated.

18. ….“it doesn’t make my mistake any better”
“mistake” “huge mistake” “mistake" is a euphemism for lying
she doesn’t specify what her mistake was (to not report being raped)

19. information “somehow” made it into the media
information pertaining to the rape, not the robbery?

20. The comments were just as expected. About 80% were “I hate refugees, they’re all rapists, there you have proof, deport them all, close the borders.
She was expecting a specific response to "the raped” being leaked, but she does not mention anything about being robbed or how the public responded to her being robbed. Was the robbery leaked, too?

Nic said...

21. I was really angry, I never doubted that my reporting the rape was wrong, but I was thinking about what I could do to stand against this hatred against refugees.
never doesn’t mean didn’t
my reporting “the” rape, distancing, she doesn’t assign the crime of rape as being against her, i.e., “reporting the refugees raped me,”. She talks about reporting “the” story about rape, but she does not self-identify as the victim

22. I just felt that I was partially responsible, I think. Because I did after all report the rape in the end.
“just” is indicative of another thought/feeling in play
“partially” and “I think” weakens any responsibility she feels towards any animosity directed at the refugee community for “the rape” somehow being leaked to media
“report the rape” distancing, she has not once said refugees raped her. She calls it “the rape”, the rape is a story with no identified assailants or victim.

Conclusion: Deception indicated. Seline C. does not say she was raped. She does not identify her assailants. I suspect her agenda was to use the very community she purports to support in a negative manner so as to elevate her public persona. "especially after they found out that it was me”) implies she sees herself as recognizable/known activist.

For someone who was raped, she appeared “happy” to tell her story and not at all remorseful for not reporting “the rape” in the first place.

Nic said...

What I post is my opinion based on Seline's public statements about why she lied about "the rape" and my application of statement analysis principals I am learning.

Hey Jude said...

My attempt - correction welcome.


Selin Goren 'first thoughts were, yeah, well,typical average youth, drinking at night with friends on the bench, because they can't at home - I didn't give it a second thought, it just seemed like a totally daily situation, and I just walked in by to the swing.'

The 'first thoughts' indicate that she had other thoughts, and the sensitivity of 'I didn't give it a second thought' means that she did.
'Totally daily situation' is like 'just a normal day' - however it is night - her words suggest daytime.

'I didn't want to start a fight' - the negative is sensitive, and this is not a logical statement. She has already said that 'they' approached and were harassing her - a confrontation had already been started, by them.

'I was pushed' - more expected would be 'one of them pushed me'. She says 'then it all started' - she does not say what 'it' is, and only that it 'started' not that if happened. If she doesn't say it, I can't say it for her.

The interviewer says 'they fled and stole her purse' out of sequence, but unknown if that is as was described by Selin Goren.

Selin Goren says she reported to the police, 'That I was robbed. And I said that it was a mixed group, that there were migrants among them but there was a German there too. And the...infringement I omitted.'

Three men (as stated by interviewer) are described as 'a mixed group' by Selin Goren. More expected would be, 'two foreign, one German' - a group may be any number, we already know there were three, so 'group' seems less expected, vague, and to possibly suggest a greater number than three.

The rape is described as 'the...infringement' - such minimising language in describing rape by a gang. is unexpected.

'I didn't want my story to somehow...give them [the right] a boost' -- anything stated in the negative is sensitive. Also, it is 'my story'.

Interviewer: 'Did you feel you did the right thing at that moment?'
Selin Goren: 'uh, no, uh, but I also didn't feel that the other would be more right. Regardless of what I did, people would have had to suffer from it.'

She did not consider either of her reports to be 'right'. Also, is the 'regardless of what I did' interesting? 'People' is general and impersonal, a rape is personal rather than political, yet she speaks off people suffering due to her reporting it, and does not mention herself suffering as a consequence.

Interviewer: what went through your head?
Selin Goren: that we'd be having refugee centres burning here in Mannheim.
(Odd smile at the thought) . This is possibly an unexpected thought - she should, at that stage be thinking of an unreported gang of rapists roaming public spaces at night.

She 'cried and cried and cried' - sensitive in the repetition, so maybe she did not cry, or did not cry so much. It was 'one of the worst nights in her life' - expected would be 'the worst night' unless she was already a victim of gang rape.

Selin Goren: 'To then sit there..and then also realise that, oh s***, Selin, you didn't report them, that's not good.'
Body posture - tension. Negatives - sensitive. Is that because she did not make a full and accurate report, or because she was thinking g to file a further (false) report?


Hey Jude said...

She was ashamed because she knew it was not okay that she lied - she had 'good reasons'.

'I was really ashamed of myself when I went back because I mean, I knew that it was not okay, that I lied...uh, well, I knew that I had good reasons for making this huge mistake, but just because I had good reasons for what I did, it doesn't make my mistake any better'.

'Lied' (not specific to one - not 'a lie', then) becomes 'a huge mistake' and then 'a mistake'. Minimising of a false report or reports.

Selin Goren,: 'the comments were just as expected' - she has been thinking about and anticipating the reaction.

'I was really angry - I never doubted that my reporting the rape was wrong'.
Why was it wrong? Why did she never doubt it was wrong? It would be wrong to report it if it had never happened.


My opinion is that she made a false report and there were not three men in the park that night. She skips over the alleged rape. She may have seen young migrants drinking there in the daytime - she may have been sexually harassed at some point. I find a similarity with her to Charlie Rogers, excepting that she has maybe fallen out of love with her own cause, in the face of Cologne and other reports of sexual harassment by migrants. I believe she has created the story for attention, either to draw attention to herself (she seems to enjoy it) and her selfless love for refugees and migrants - possibly to also boost negativity against migrants in her home town, which she doesn't like so much in Mannheim as she did in Iraqi refugee camps, though doubtful she would be willing or able to acknowledge that.

Hey Jude said...

Oh - negative is noted for attention, rather than sensitive?

Alexandra said...

I think she is lying about the rape. There is story-telling done by the narrator using words like "suddenly" the "3" men were right behind her. This is the first indicator to me she is lying. The woman who was allegedly raped describes the attack in passive detail...and then...and I have noticed this is always a bad sign and often an indicator of lying, she says, (while smiling) that it was the worst night of her life. I have seen this done recently in at least 4 fake hate stories. That exact formula of smiling while saying it was the worst night of their life. Realizing when she got home what "really"'s very doubtful someone who had been gang-raped would not realize what was happening.
I believe her purse was stolen. I don't believe she was raped.

elf said...

She's lying. It's all to passive. There were presumably 3 attackers, she was presumably3 or 4 meters away before she was pushed. The attack is out of order also I think, one guy wwas behind her pushing her to the ground and another was in front of her choking her? Plus, where's the anger? She sounds almost happy during the interview. I think she's lying for her 15 minutes of fame.

Hey Jude said...

I think there are elements of story-telling here: 'they were drinking at night with friends on the bench because they can't at home'. 'At night' - is that extra unnecessary language? - we already know she said this happened at night. Although it is not included in the video, it would seem that she had already told the interviewer it was 1am when she went to the park. This, along with 'it was a totally daily situation' makes me think she had encountered youths drinking in the park during the daytime. I think she made up the night story - also, it's possible that she may have been sexually/verbally harassed at some time, but did not go to the police at the time, maybe because it was daytime in the park, and she did not consider it a report-worthy occurrence. Why not 'a totally nightly situation'? Also, the'totally' would seem like need to persuade.

Still thinking about the way she presents herself and how smilingly she relates her 'story'.

I do think that 'story' is not always an indication that the person is lying, as often I hear the phrase 'telling their stories' in relation to groups of victims - ie - child soldiers, rape victims in war-torn countries, African AIDS orphans, etc. That is as related by those listening to the accounts, which they term 'stories' - not sure the people themselves would describe their sufferings as 'stories'. But there is also 'life story', used by many in relation to themselves, and who are not lying. Still, I think she is lying - if this did not happen at night, which I doubt, then I have also to doubt that it happened as told at any time.


What did she argue about at home? I would wonder if it was about money, if she had lost or had her cards stolen, or had overspent. Made up a robbery story, then remembered she had somehow omitted to say she was also raped. I do not believe her.


I have just looked at her Facebook - she says in the comments she is not a politician, yet her profile describes her as 'Politician'. So, does she have a problem with her identity, or with truth in general? Still, should just keep to the video - that is interesting, though. I don't know too many politicians who go in for the ethereal look by wearing flowers in their hair.

Hey Jude said...

Commonly expected words (as in Peter's Charlie Rogers analysis):

Attack, crime, truth, assault, danger, pain, cut, violated, blood, arrest, violent, pain, cruel, hurt

In Selin Goren's account I would expect to hear at least 'crime, assault, violated' and that she wanted the youths arrested.

'The infringement' is soft language. 'Rape, assault, or attack' would be the expected.

Peter wrote (re Charlie Rogers):
'Soft language is an indication that there is no linguistic connection to the assault'.


Also of interest, in the same article, Peter says to look out for language that distances the subject from the crime but instead ties the subject to a motive for making a false report.

I think this is a possible motive, and that post-Cologne, she is now warring with herself on her position with regard to welcoming refugees:
'I lied because I was afraid this could be, uh, abused by the right, in order to stir hatred against refugees, which right after Cologne and Silvestir night had risen dramatically, and I just didn't want my story to somehow...give them a boost, especially after they found out that it was me, so they'd say that, yeah, look here, you leftists, now you too get raped by migrants and refugees, so you should finally figure it out, too.'

I think she did want to give the right that boost, because she herself had 'finally figured it out' that refugees/migrants were responsible for many sex attacks. It's hard to miss the strangely mischievous look on her face when she replies to 'What went through your head?' with, 'That we'd be having refugee centres burning here in Mannheim'.

Perhaps I am reading too much into her words, but I'd say she has growing conflict between her public narrative and her inner narrative with regard to the presence of so many refugees-migrants in her area, or in the country. Also she wanted attention, a story about her good works with refugees - as the public climate changed she expanded her roles so that she who championed them, had also become their victim. I wonder if she sees herself as somehow saintly - the flowers in the hair, the 'sacrificial' non-reporting of the rape, the tortured soul, who 'felt like I was partly responsible' for the increased racism because she 'did, after all, report the rape, in the end.' In the end - it was actually just twelve hours following her first false report.

So, well - am I being too harsh on a genuine rape victim, or is she, as seems to me, cast in the mould of Charlie Rogers? I know it is rare for someone to lie outright - is she one such person, or am I reading her wrongly?


Hey Jude said...

I should add that she does describe, even shows, what physically she says they did to her - which is not soft. But as for the rape - 'it started' - but she does not name it, beyond 'the infringement' or say she was raped. At the end she says 'I did, after all, report the rape' - but not 'that I was raped' or 'they raped me' - I think that might be distancing language, and the guilt is because she made two false reports.

Nic said...

HJ said:
So, well - am I being too harsh on a genuine rape victim, or is she, as seems to me, cast in the mould of Charlie Rogers? I know it is rare for someone to lie outright - is she one such person, or am I reading her wrongly?

I don't think you are. I came to the same conclusion, albeit for different reasons (motivation being elevating her "public" persona). She didn't once use the pronoun "I" in regards to being raped -- and she barely acknowledges being robbed except when she recants making the report to police. As you point out, with exception to being pushed down on her knees (but she also describes being held down with her arms behind her back so on her stomach?) while being choked by someone else,) she skipped over the crime, i.e., she doesn't punctuate the story with "then they took turns raping me, or one of them raped me," etc. Or even fighting her attackers. She does not talk of them raping her or even her uttering the words, "I" and "rape" in the same sentence. It's only ever called "the rape". Throughout the entire interview, she did not show any emotion in regards to be violated, *at all*. Not only that she doesn't address the post trauma she's dealing with, if any. Is she in counselling? Is she afraid to walk in the park, now? Is she afraid to go outside by herself? She doesn't even say she went to the hospital to be examined/documented. I wonder if police even asked her to? Did she present with bruises on her arms, neck, face, legs? What of her clothing? Did she bag her clothing and submit the items as "evidence"? Maybe that sounds funny, but if she had showered, her clothes would at least hold some residual evidence.

I agree with you that she is at odds with the "left" ideology re migration. Why she would allow them to be publicly "flogged" (collateral damage) while carrying out her agenda. There is mention of robbery. Robbery implies money. Could money also be a motivating factor? i.e., to be a paid activist? jmo

I really enjoyed your analysis, Hey Jude. You said: "'Totally daily situation' is like 'just a normal day' - however it is night - her words suggest daytime." Right on.

Nic said...

Regarding the "unexpected".

She walked away quickly.

What about screaming her head off? Were there any third-party reports from neighbours saying they heard a woman screaming in the park? When she arrived back home, were one or both of her parents still awake? I couldn't imagine that she arrived back home calm, "put together", mascara and make-up intact.


Tania Cadogan said...

Three, four meters along i was pushed, and i fell to my knees, and one of them grabbed me from behind,
and he had - with his one arm -he held down my arms, and with the other he pushed my upper body down,
and the other who stood in front of me put his hands around my neck, and he choked me. and i had to gasp for air, and then it all started...

This makes no physical sense.
She was pushed and she fell to her knees.
She is then grabbed from behind with one arm holding down her two arms and the other arm pushing her upper body down.

This would then make her prone, on her knees and then her body pushed down.
This would have her face down on the ground.

How then is the one stood in front of her (who it seems magically appears there from behind) able to put his hands around her neck and choke her?

If he is standing and she is prone, the only way it was possible was if the alleged choker kneeling not standing and either she was then facing up on her back or he was kneeling and trying to choke her from behind as she was face down, which would far harder and less effective than choking from the front.
She indicates the choking using both her hands coming in the front.

If the initial man was holding her arms down and pushing her upper body down with his other hand, he would have to go down with her resulting in him having to kneel to maintain control.

and then it all started
It and not the assault or rape?

they fled and stole her purse
Out of chronological order.

When asked what she reported to the police, she replies that she was robbed and it was a mixed group.
However whilst she says this there is a smirk (dupers delight?)
The alleged rape is referred to as an infringement.

Her lies are minimised to a mistake.

Had she been genuinely raped by a german. would she have said and done the same thing?
Is alleged rape by immigrants ok whilst rape by anyone else not ok?
Is Alleged rape ok regardless?

She refers to herself as an offender, is this because she is in fact lying about what happened fro reasons known only to herself and she is admitting that by filing a false police report, she is in fact breaking the law, thus offending?

If what she said took place as described, then she is a victim not an offender.
She is an innocent, guilty of nothing, and if she is guilty of nothing then she can be an offender.
if what she said took place, did not take place as described, then she is not an innocent victim, she is a guilty person and if she is guilty, she becomes an offender.
She tells us she is an offender, what innocent person would make that claim?

Perhaps, unlikely as it is, she regards herself as an offender because she was out late at night/early morning as a lone female, unaccompanied by a male relative, not modestly dressed as per muslim women should be, and non muslim and thus she deserved whatever happened to her at the hands of muslim males.
if she had behaved and dressed appropriately as demand of muslim females, she would not have been harassed, assaulted and 'raped'.
She offended their morals and was suitably punished by them.

Nic said...

I was really angry, I never doubted that my reporting the rape was wrong, but I was thinking about what I could do to stand against this hatred against refugees.

really angry
"really" is extra wording and angry is unexpected. You would expect to hear, i.e., traumatized, very scared, distressed, maybe even shame (that it became public knowledge). Angry is not an emotion typically associated with being raped.

Why would reporting "being" rape wrong? Unless "she" was not raped as she reported.

discounts that which precedes the next thought

was thinking
is a passive continuous verb conjugation, meaning this is something that she gave thought about over a period of time, i.e. scheming. Then in the same breath she switches to "could do", which is something planned in the future. Initially she reported being robbed. Twelve hours later she returned to report "the infringement" she "omitted". Is this something she thought about doing versus what really happened?

against is repeated making it sensitive
against "this" hatred, is close
against refugees

the rape
she describes 'the' rape, not, "my" rape or being raped, or "the refugees raping me", she does not say by whom or use any sort of personal pronoun to describe the crime she insinuates happens to her. She only uses a personal pronoun when she says "my reporting" as something she did, not what happened to her. Distancing

never doubted
never when used to describe her doubt, is not a reliable denial about doubting

Hey Jude said...

Thanks for your comments, Nic - I enjoyed your analysis, you are thorough - I tend to skip bits.

Tania - I noticed the description of what they did to her was difficult to envisage - I got it that she was kneeling face forward, with one guy somehow holding her there's while another was stood leaning down over her, in front, with his hands around her neck - but what was meant to have happened next she does not say, or how. I have looked for news stories by now, and she claims she was made to perform a sex act on one of them.

I don't get anything of anger, upset or revulsion in her account - surely there would be something, if it had happened.

Also, from the news items - the guff, IMO, about her apologising to all refugees for reporting the rape - that's racist in itself, as it seems to assume such an apology would be welcome and accepted.

Tania Cadogan said...

I never doubted that my reporting the rape was wrong,

If it was a false report of rape then she knew it was wrong.

I never doubted that my reporting the rape was wrong, but I was thinking about what I could do to stand against this hatred against refugees

How would her reporting her rape by refugees be of any use in countering the hatred against refugees?

If anything, being raped by refugees would heighten the hatred of refugees and lead to more vocal demands for them to be deported and all the borders closed against all immigrants, as well as demanding long sentences for all who break the law and then being automatically deported at the end of their sentence.

She claims one thing but does the opposite, what is her reasoning?

Is she simply another fake attention seeker?
Does she have more nefarious reasons?

How did it become public?
Why did she not remain anonymous as was her right as a victim of a sexual assault?
Where is her anger, her fear?

Where is the expected when we see the unexpected?

Nic said...

Peter said:
When someone should report "what happened" but instead tells us why they did something or why something happened, the sensitivity is increased. We color this in blue to catch the eye's attention.

Then, when there is a cluster of these blue words, we find the highest level of sensitivity in language. It is where our issue lies, and it is where we aim our interview questions.

I lied because I was afraid this would be, uh, abused by the right in order to stir hatred against the refugees, which right after Cologne and Silvester night had risen dramatically, and I just didn’t want my story to somehow, give them a boost, especially after they found out that it was me, so they’d say that, yeah, look here, you leftists, now you too get raped by migrants and refugees, so you should finally figure it out, too.

It is interesting to note that she doesn't use the word 'afraid' to describe herself in relation to being raped, but she uses 'afraid' in relation to her story being "abused" by the right to stir hatred.

She describes the rape as an infringement (breaking the law) but using the story as "abuse". This is unexpected. It is also interesting that lying to police is the act of not filing a crime committed to her person. Not reporting a crime is not lying (unless you are protecting somebody/interfering in an investigation). Lying would be filing a false report.

in this context is bridging two periods of time: lying to police and the NYE assaults, the two similarities between the two being that neither were reported/publicized until after the fact. The media lied/did not report to the public that it happened. She is saying she "lied" for not reporting "the rape".

I just didn't
what is said in the negative is sensitive,

my story
she uses the word story instead of saying "what happened to me". There has not been a lot of time that has passed between what happened and her telling "her story", the rape should still be relatively "fresh" and alive in her mind.

I just didn't want my story to somehow give them a boost
"didn't want" and "somehow" weaken her assertion about wanting to "boost" the right

especially if they found out it was me
the only way anyone would know if it was her, would be if the story "somehow" made it to the public domain, is she a known (or thinks of herself) as a left-wing activist?

especially if they found out it was me
her being raped lends more credibility to the rape, than "you"

answers why

look here, you leftists, now you too get raped
has her thought been up to this point the general thought being only right-wing activists get raped? Is she saying that her story is that "all" women, regardless of party line, get raped by migrants and refugees?

is not her, but a right-wing activist, she does not self identify as being raped

migrants and refugees
here she identifies rapists as migrants and refugees (not Germans), but only in relation to others (you) not her


Nic said...

I lied because I was afraid this would be, uh, abused by the right in order to stir hatred against the refugees, which right after Cologne and Silvester night had risen dramatically, and I just didn’t want my story to somehow, give them a boost, especially after they found out that it was me, so they’d say that, yeah, look here, you leftists, now you too get raped by migrants and refugees, so you should finally figure it out, too.

Another way to look at this statement...

She lied to stir hatred against the refugees. She highlights Cologne and Sylvester (NYE) as the "hatred against" refugees rising dramatically. Her reporting "the rape" came half a year later, but she points to these specific events as "rising hatred). She says she doesn't want her "story" to "somehow" give the right a boost, especially after they found out (past/future) it was "me" (a known left-wing activist). However, she lumps being raped in with "the right" (you too) and "finally" figuring it out post Cologne/Silvester, i.e., abused and assaulted NYE revellers were women. There was no discrimination between left of right-wing activists.

By "somehow" elevating her story to the public domain she is abusing immigrants and refugees by stirring hate against them, fuelling the right-wing sentiment, "to deport them all, close the borders", (the why she lied).


Nic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nic said...

left OR right-wing activists.

She speaks about returning to the police station 12 hours later and then refers to the subsequent "expected" reaction/comments to the leaked rape report she made.

Twelve hours is quite a bit of time between reports, could it be that no reaction to her being robbed in the park (nothing reported in the local paper, etc.,) was not expected?


I was thinking about what I could do to stand against"
1) this hatred
2) against refugees

"this" hatred is close and she defines this hatred as "against refugees".

Could the solution have been to create a "story" about 'the rape' and to lie to police, then leak it to the media so as to stir hatred against refugees? *If* she is a known activist, her story would garner more than just local reporting.

I wonder. :0)


Alexandra said...

Hey Jude, I didnt want to say it, but I do believe her motivation for lying had to do with the "argument" at home, as I now see you suggested. In fact, she may have added to the story to try to get the arguer to show some sympathy for her and back down from whatever they were arguing about.

Anonymous said...

Peter, I misunderstood at first what you meant by "the beginning", but it was a happy misinterpretation. I started my own analysis with the beginning of the story - and, as you say, where the story begins is important.

Her story begins with "an argument at home"; I noted she felt the need to explain why she was outdoors in the first place.

If she did in fact have an argument at home, that would explain why she concocted the rest of the story: to get sympathy.

For comparison, though this is a fictional example, recall the scene in the movie A Christmas Story (1983) where the main character Ralphie fantasizes about medical problems he could have from ingesting Palmolive soap as a punishment for bad language. He is indulging in self-pity, much the same way I imagine Goren is.

Hey Jude said...

Nic - I agree, she intended to stir up hatred. It may seem unlikely but her feelings towards refugees/migrants may have shifted, or she maybe is desperate for attention, or both.

Alexandra - her attitude is so strange, I think it is due to something other than disassociation and distancing herself from actual events - the argument may have caused her to think up the story - if it was known that young migrants drank in the park, she could have based her story on what she felt would be believable. A daytime attack less so, as there would be people around, while few would be there to contradict a nighttime story. I think the story developed as she went along - first robbery (maybe she needed to explain away lost money, cards, or overspending) - then went home and revised the story for more attention and sympathy, and because she is maybe not so keen on the refugees as she used to be.

Maybe she did not feel believed by the police in her first report, or that it was a 'crime' that would not be taken seriously enough, and so she went back later to 'explain' the 'truth' of the full story. Not make it believable, in her own mind, she puts her failure to report the rape down to her concern about refugees, when actually she may just have decided that was the only way round not having reported it the first time, which could be more crafty and selfish than malicious in intent. It would say she does not care about the refugees so much as that her robbery story was possibly viewed with scepticism, or not considered the crime of the year.

I don't know - certainly she seems to enjoy the idea of the refugee shelters burning in Mannheim - that is so odd. Also, given her position as an activist, and that she championed the cause, it seems unlikely she would somehow accidentally implicate them in a false report.

I think to Tania's question, that Selin Goren may indeed have had 'nefarious' motives - that's such a good word, but I may be thinking too badly of Selin Goren. I'd be interested to know if she made it up, and then made up more, in a response to an argument, without giving it too much thought, or if she thought it out and planned the story for the sake of publicity, which would make it extra nefarious given her public stance and support for refugees.

It's interesting that she says 'my first thoughts' and 'I didn't give it a second thought' - repetition of thought making thoughts about the youth drinking in the park sensitive - along with lying, in my opinion, as to them being there 'at night'. She tells us why they were - does she need to tell us, and explain why they were there? No, everyone knows that youths sometimes drink in parks with their friends because it isn't allowed at home, If someone tells us why they, or someone, did something, the sensitivity is increased - as Peter just reminded us.

So, did she commit a hate crime? How strange, given her position, if so. Maybe not so strange if she now resents the immigrant population and accompanying crimes.

The apology she wrote was unexpected, too - all drama, apologising to refugees for reporting a rape, which is a reasonable way to react - except that she didn't report it the first time round.

At least she said that she lied, just not the extent of it (IMO).

Nic said...

Anonymous @ 1:26/4:24

This would be interesting if she is an unknown. It would speak to whom "they" were, especially if the story was only reported at a local level.

after they found out that it was me

As an aside, would be a ridiculous argument that right-wing women would be raped before left-wing women, unless you're having a politically biased fuelled "debate" with your parents.

Nic said...

Hey Jude,

I haven't Googled the follow-up, but I will now. I bet the apology letter is interesting. :0)

Nic said...

so they’d say that, yeah, look here, you leftists, now you too get raped by migrants and refugees, so you should finally figure it out, too.

I find this harsh. "finally figure it out, too" is like turning "the rape" into a life lesson.

life lesson: parent/child

Youth have a tendency to be uber empathetic/left-leaning until they have grown-up bills. Then they discover the "cost" of socialism and a shift happens. Some go left of centre, some "small c", others will swing polar opposite to the right.

Or maybe, in this instance, NYE in Cologne or Silvester shifted her perception?


Hey Jude said...

Not make it believable - To make it believable

Also, reporting the rape was reasonable - not apologising for it

Tired = rambling and not expressing my thoughts clearly enough.

Nic - she deleted it but someone saved and reposted it somewhere. She is twenty-four - might live with housemates or partner rather than parents by now.p, Idk. I like your observation on a 'life lesson' - she does make it come across in that way.

Nic said...

I did some digging:

Die Dame heißt Selin Gören und ist Tochter türkischer Arbeiter, Veganerin, alleinerziehende Mutter eines zweijährigen Sohnes.
Politisch aktiv bei der Linksjugend von Baden-Württemberg, Ende April 2015 in den Bundessprecherrat der Linksjugend "Solid" gewählt./

The lady called Selin brats and is daughter of Turkish workers , vegan , single mother of a two year old son.
Politically active in the Left Youth of Baden-Württemberg , the end April
2015 elected to the national speakers' council of Linksjugend " Solid " .

Nic said...

Same thread. This was written January 30 (a month after NYE's assault in Cologne). I used a Google translate:

Dear male refugee
probably my age. Probably a few years younger. A bit old. I'm so incredibly sorry! Almost a year ago I saw the hell, you flee from you. I was not directly on the fire, but I have visited the people in the refugee camp in Sudkurdistan. Have seen old grandmother, the need to take care to many parentless children. I have seen the eyes of these children, some have not lost their lights. I can show me from about 20 ezidischen children in their math lessons Arabic characters and female yet, like a little girl started to cry, just because a chair fell over. I have seen a hint of the hell, you flee from you. I did not see what is in front of it happened and also your grueling flight I did not have to witness. I am glad and happy that you made it here. That you could leave the IS and its war behind you and are not drowned in the Mediterranean.
But I'm afraid you're not safe here. Burning refugee shelters and attacks on refugees and a brown mob that runs through the streets. I have always opposed fought that it is here that. I wanted an open Europe, a friendly. One, in which I can enjoy living and one in which we are both safe. I'm so sorry. For both of us I'm so incredibly sorry. You, you're not sure, because we live in a racist society. I, I'm not sure, because we live in a sexist society.
But what I'm really sorry, the fact that the sexist and international carriage of actions that have been done to me only help that you are exposed to an increasing and ever more aggressive racism.
I promise you, I'll scream. I will not allow it to happen next. Egos will not stand idly by and let it happen, that racists and concerned citizens identify yourself as the problem.
You are not the problem. You are not a problem. You are usually a wonderful person who deserves it as much as anyone to be safe and free.
Thank you exist - and nice that you're here.

Nic said...

Here is the above's original text in German. This is the screenshot posted in the thread. I transcribed it so I could get it translated (you cannot copy/past a screen shot). I don't think I missed anything.
30 January
Lieber männlicher geflüchteter
vermutlich in meinem Alter. Vermutlich ein paar Jahre jünger. Ein bisschen alter. Es tut mir so unfassbar Leid! Vor fast einem Jahr habe ich die Holle gesehen, aus der du geflohen bist. Ich war nicht direkt am Brandherd, aber ich habe die Menschen in dem Fluchtlingslager in Sudkurdistan besucht. Habe alte Grobmutter gesehen, die sich um zu viele elternlose Kinder kummern mussen. Ich habe die Augen dieser kinder gesehen, einige haben ihr Leuchten nicht verloren. Ich habe mir von ca 20 ezidischen Kindern in ihrem Matheunterricht arabische Schriftzeichen zeigen lassen und weib noch, wie ein kleines Mädchen angefangen hat zu weinen, nur weil ein Stuhl umfiel. Ich habe einen Hauch der Hölle gesehen, aus der du geflohen bist. Ich habe nicht gesehen, was davor geschehen ist und auch deine strapaziöse Flucht habe ich nicht miterleben müssen. Ich bin froh und glucklich, dass du es hierher geschafft hast. Das du den IS und seinen Krieg hinter dir lassen konntest und nicht im Mittelmeer ertrunken bist.
Aber ich fürchte, du bist hier nicht sicher. Brennende Flüchtlingsunterkünfte, tätliche Angriffe auf Refugees und ein brauner Mob, der durch die Straben zieht. Ich habe immer dagegen angekämpft, dass es hier so ist. Ich wollte ein offenes Europa, ein freundliches. Eins, in dem ich gerne leben kann und eins, in dem wir beide sicher sind. Es tut mir leid. Fur uns beide tut es mir so unglaublich Leid. Du, du bist nicht sicher, weil wir in einer rassistischen Gesellschaft leben. Ich, ich bin nicht sicher, weil wir in einer sexistischen Gesellschaft leben.
Aber was mir wirklich Leid tut ist der Umstand, dass die sexistischen und grenzuberschreitenden Handlungen die mir angetan wurden nur dazu beitragen, dass du zunehmendem und immer aggressiverem Rassismus ausgesetzt bist.
Ich verspreche dir, ich werde schreien. Ich werde nicht zulassen, dass es weiter geschieht. Iche werde nicht tatenlos zusehen und es geschehen lassen, dass Rassisten und besorgte Bürger dich als das Problem benennen.
Du bist nicht das Problem. Du bist überhaupt kein Problem. Du bist meistens ein wunderbarer Mensch, der es genauso wie jeder andere verdient hat sicher und frei zu sein.
Danke, dass es dich gibt - und schön, dass du da bist.

Nic said...

The above post was written by S. Goren

Nic said...

I know a few Germans. They can be pretty direct/harsh. They'll tell it to you like it is, LOL...

You don't like carrots? Here's an extra three helpings of carrots! There, now you like carrots!

Anonymous said...

Following the election of US pres BO I remember rachel maddow exclaim ' the adults are in charge now'. He seemed to be an upright and decent man. Perhaps he is. World upheaval doesn't just happen. Europe, north africa, middle east, US. Big societal upheaval.

Daniella said...

Oh you're not kidding! Ive had Germans offer me literally piles of carrots, one time, dining with a German, the scenery was beautiful looking out as we were from atop the Alps. Very handsome gentleman, although I'll never forget how many carrots he dumped on my plate!

Nic said...

According to a linked report in the above-linked thread:

In the evening of January 27, a 24 - year-old woman filed a complaint with the police . They had on Wednesday been victims of sexual offenses in a park in the area Oststadt in the night from Tuesday . The circumstances indeed require further investigations , which are guided by the Kriminalkommissariat Mannheim the Criminal Investigation Directorate Heidelberg .

In den Abendstunden des 27. Januar erstattete eine 24-jährige Frau Anzeige bei der Polizei. Sie sei in der Nacht von Dienstag auf Mittwoch in einer Parkanlage im Bereich Oststadt Opfer eines Sexualdelikts geworden. Die näheren Umstände der Tat bedürfen weiterer Ermittlungen, die durch das Kriminalkommissariat Mannheim der Kriminalpolizeidirektion Heidelberg geführt werden.

Police report rape happened on the 26th. Selin Goren wrote/posted the above FB post on the 30th.


I left out a word for translation above re description of SG

She was elected with a majority: ""Solid" gewählt"

She's known.

Vance Holmes said...

" . . . the bastardization of the English language including a historical view that shows a cultural retreat to overt simplicity and ignorance . . ."

I'd like to see an analysis of that statement!

John Mc Gowan said...

Although not deceptive in and of itself, unless i missed it. There is no sensory recall.

John Mc Gowan said...

^^ I'm unsure if this apply's to both oral and written statements and or individually?

Unknown said...

Judging from her letter to her attacker, coupled with the beginning of her story about being involved in an argument thus going to the park, my instinct tells me that she was raped, but by her boyfriend or friend (the man she argued with), who is more than likely a refugee.

The guilt she felt for not reporting the rape seems genuine, just like the self-blaming she does in regards to how refugees were treated after her report became public. Not to mention this open letter reads like a personal apology note to either a lover or friend, a male whose opinion she cares about.

Whatever they were arguing about is irrelevant, but how she behaved during the argument that led to the rape is probably why she blames herself and not him. The fact that he can easily influence her thought process continuously like this tells me that they probably still communicate and have some type of relationship, although between the rape and her reporting it he probably ignored her as some form of control. Which tells me that his use of rape to punish females who directly threaten his authority with such confidence and feeling of being right about it means that he is most likely a refugee who grew up in that environment.

Anonymous said...

Hey JudeAugust 2, 2016 at 8:42 PM
Not make it believable - To make it believable

Also, reporting the rape was reasonable - not apologising for it

Tired = rambling and not expressing my thoughts clearly enough.


You do that a lot. You just like to get yourself ramble on and on.