Thursday, March 22, 2018

Drowning Death of Kiara Moore

For some, social media is a way to reach family and friends. Still for others, it is a way to network in business. 

Here, it has brought scrutiny to the parents of toddler, Kiara Moore, when her parents took to Facebook to talk about her death. 

An interview with Kimberley Rowlands by police is forthcoming   after her  two-year-old daughter died when she left her strapped in a car that plunged into a river.

Kiara Moore was killed after her mother Kimberley Rowlands left her alone while she dashed into her partner's office to get money. 

Kimberly Rowlands wrote on Facebook: 

Sadly yesterday my beautiful baby girl passed away! Due to my own stupidity, I will have to live with the guilt for the rest of my life! Mummy loves you baby girl and I’m so sorry!”

This is not an unexpected statement, though some may argue its posting for the public.  

 She uses the words "I'm sorry"  preceded by "my own stupidity."  These show strong pronoun commitment to both "stupidity" (with singular emphasis) and "sorrow" regarding the leaving alone of the child which led to her death. 

The local law  incriminates leaving a child alone if it can lead to danger, similar to Neglect laws elsewhere. 

Jet Moore 


The child's father, Jet Moore, set up a fundraiser within hours of his daughter's death, for those who attempted rescue his daughter from the icy waters. This is something that has drawn attention. 
Police have issued a public warning to those who wrote on social media that they do not believe the mother's statement. Police said investigations into such posters could take place. This is very different than in the United States.  

Jet Moore posted the following on Facebook, which is since deleted, describing what happened.  This, too is likely to gain attention.  

Your thoughts on the statement?



214 comments:

1 – 200 of 214   Newer›   Newest»
Unknown said...

The facebook post at the bottom seems to lack commitment. No pronouns. Is that expected when explaining an event where the person wasn't present or is it still a red flag?

The mother seems like she's committed to her short posting, but intending to kill your child can still be seen as "stupid" after the fact.

CQuinn said...

The father doesn't give any complete social introductions of either the mother or the child. Expected: when a young person dies, the parent laments all of the things she did not get to do. Unexpected: the list of all of the things she did do to prove how complete her life was. That part was particularly striking to me.

tania cadogan said...

So many dropped pronouns.

Anonymous said...

It was the lemons stacked up too far!

Whats does this meen?


They (who?) got in the car to go home.
Sat on bank (who?) card which snapped and needed money to get home etc.
Went back to the office to get money (who?)from the desk and came back to no car. (Who?)
looked in the river (who?) No signs.

Anonymous said...

The emoji is weird. I would never even consider using one in such a post.

CQuinn said...

I think he's using lemons to refer to bad luck, as in, "When life hands you lemons..." So from the outset he's establishing it was bad luck. Very strange.

Neslihan Eminagaoglu said...

Father sounds almost ecstatic!

Rachel said...

He doesn’t sound like someone who had a great education. First thoughts reading through....Lots of missing pronouns, incomplete social introductions, he never mentions them by name. If I didn’t know what had happened or the context I wouldn’t know what he was talking about or who.
I am not sure what the two first lines mean. Why mention lemons?
They got in the car to go home
-unnecessary information
-sensitive for telling why she had to go get money
-there is no “the” in front of bank card
-the desk, does he know what desk money was kept in?
-missing information with the and and etc
-who looked in the river
-why was that the first thing mentioned
-no signs : doesn’t say what signs they are looking for
-so: Missing information
-introduces “we”
-missing information about how the car was found
-praises police for going beyond the call of duty, ingratiating
-who tried reviving her (still don’t know who her is)
-for hours: at the hospital? Where the car was found? Missing information
-who is everyone who has done their best? She didn’t make it! How is that doing their best?
-ingratiating for everyone showing support with a smiling face- smiling face is inappropriate
-a happy girl who lived I hope a great life? Law of economy... why would he hope? Shouldn’t he know? The whole statement he never calls her daughter
-what did she do more than most people?
-accomplishments: NTP he’s a good parent because she was able to do all these things
-had a loving family and made us all happy, no pronouns,

There is so much more. It reminds me of the chief of police 911 phone call where he didn’t supply names or social intro.

He never said he was her father, he never introduced himself as such. He doesn’t say the girls mother is close to him and hardly says anything about her.
He is very passive and non committal in the entire statement and when he says... love her so much. At least that part is not past tense, but still he is not psychologically in this statement.

Jo said...

Agree that he is focused on what she has done rather than what she won’t be able to do or experience. Too early to be justifying she had a full life. The lack of pronouns stand out. If both parents were in the car, expected would be one parent stays in car with toddler while other goes into office.

Jo said...

Is it also strange that all his examples of her “living” include water - skiing/snow, paddling, beach.....

Anonymous said...

Wow - what about the stages of grief here? This parent appears to be attempting to convince the audience of a detailed story and appears to have moved on to acceptance very quickly. It seems very unusual that within the timeline provided that the grief stricken parents would be capable of reaching out with a fundraiser for the responders. Is this an attempt to ingratiate and establish moral character (so it can be used as character reference if need be in the future)?

Anonymous said...

Off topic: Here's an interesting & easy one...

http://katytimes.com/news/article_ac02f008-2c88-11e8-a216-9bfae0f9a19a.html

CQuinn said...

He says the police jumping in and pulling her out was "way beyond the call of duty." Ugh.
It's like he's saying "What a string of bad luck we had! First the bank card breaks, then the car vanished, and then my daughter died!" It's becoming more and more gross the more I read it.

Anonymous said...

Oh jeez,
I’ve got more emotion when a pound of ground beef goes bad before I get to use it! What is going on with these parents? She’s so dang adorable, and that’s all they can muster?

Anonymous said...

I think the father's explanation of what happened is deceptive. It isn't clear who sat on the card or where he was at the time of the incident. If he had been in the office, surely he would have said, "..came back to the office," rather than "went back to the office." Also, he would have said, "went back to no car," rather than, "came back to no car." The latter would be appropriate if he had been in the vicinity of the car.
Lack of pronouns and then suddenly "we," is introduced.

Shannon Durston said...

I rarely comment but wow. A smiley emoji when describing your child drowning? Just a 'spot of bad luck' no big deal, smiley emoji.
I am truly at a loss.

Rachel said...

Great point!

Lucia D said...

I agree with others, both parents sound weirdly light hearted. This is unexpected after the death of their child. "Oh, my daughter died when I left her alone in a car. My bad! "

Unknown said...

if my child died you would never catch me using a happy face emojee for the rest of my life. certainly not in a post explaining her death. something is deff up!!

Rachel said...

Great point Jo with the water examples...

Bobcat said...

Thoughts, not analysis:

The little girl was keeping them from taking adventures around the world.
The oopsie our daughter died because of my stupid mistake churns my stomach.

I wonder if the RAR RAR is leakage of revving the engine as the car was directed into the river.

I wonder about Knick (steal), bank, money, money.

The father is already thinking about future adventures.

The kid was fun for a few years, but the parents are ready to move on with their life unencumbered by the responsibility of raising her to adulthood.

Oops, we made a stupid mistake, she's dead. Time to go paddle the wye.

Kit Perez said...

It looks like the parents may have conspired to end the toddlers life and make it look like an accident. I would look at history or anecdotal evidence of them being overwhelmed or putting their own needs before the daughter. Also, financial issues since her birth.

What a horrifying story....

Anonymous said...

She says my beautiful baby girl passed away ? Passed away ? always makes me think of a peaceful death ! Or an expected death after an illness maybe ? Not a child that allegedly drowned which is horrific !!!!

Anonymous said...

No mention of Kiara's terror she must have felt as the car rolled and sank into the water.

Ann said...

I agree bobcat,both seem odd at their response,espec the dad. And why was his post deleted? Was it just say 'this is what happened" and now we can go on now like nothin happened. In other words give words to show and then begone with it all?

Anonymous said...

I found both their statements really weird coming so quickly too after the tragedy. Under uk law a patent who leaves a child in danger can be proscuted. They left her in a car that was on a slopping road for launching boats. There would be signs everywhere saying warning with car tipping in water picture and danger of death deep water. They have a business there and they would have been acutely aware of this danger and that you don't park on slipways which can be slimy and slippery let alone leave a child in a car in this situation. I find his account like someone who is detached and just matter of fact. No emotion. Hers also is very strange. If i had just lost my toddler to a tragic drowning, would i want to post on face book? Both parents seem very willing to just accept what has happened whereas i think most would be in shock and denial or disbelief. When i read this i thought of this poor childs distress as she drowned but neither parent has thought of that it seems and instead of describing their distressed feelings they seem intent on praising the emergency services in an extreme way. I found reading the account very disturbing. It doesn't feel right,no expression of shock by the parents just them wanting to tell their story it seems. This is my opinion which under UK law i am entitled to. I would be very interested in the transcript of the 999 call and your analysis of this case Peter Hyatt

christina said...

The child's mother frantically on Facebook: 'Can everyone look out for the car, It's been stolen with my 3-year-old daughter in it. Please share!' Pictured: Rescuers searching the river yesterday.... the woman lost her baby, and posted about the car first. i call bullshit.


from the start i thought: you have just killed your baby by accident and you have the time to post on facebook?

father saying things like :“Unfortunately Kiara had an amazing but short life.” meaning its a wrap people nothing to see here, its like they had an eulogy ready.

>the photos of the slope look dangerous
>it was a known place for them
>posting calls to find the car not the girl
>either zombie parents or premeditated murder

Anonymous said...

Bank cards don't snap! Sorry but to get mine to break in half i have to cut it! They invented this scenario to provide an allaby. I wasn't there when it happened. My opinion

Anonymous said...

Bank cards don't break! They have to be cut up to destroy them!

Buckley said...

"Bank" can relate to water, too.

Buckley said...

Yep- police "found the car" not "found her"

Hey Jude said...

It was the lemons what done it.

Lucia D said...

Peter, what are your thoughts about his statement?

Buckley said...

I'm not bothered by the emoticon. The whole notion "If my child died I would never..." I don't put much stock in. I know at times of incredible heartbreak, one can find uplifting from the support and love of others.

Many other things about the statement bother me in regards to truth.

"...no car. Looked in the river. No signs. So we thought she and the car had been taken."

Weak commitment initially. He doesn't say "we thought the car might be in the water" but won't commit to thinking or acting on the belief. Then a "so" clause telling us why, but the commitment is stronger with "we" (not "I" but a solid pronoun after dropping many). It's important we know why they thought (and presumably reported) she and car were missing.

Also, really unclear when "they" (mom and Kiara) becomes "we", partly because of so many dropped pronouns in between, partly because unclear when he arrived on the scene.

General P. Malaise said...


"Went back to the office to get money from the desk and came back to no car. looked in the river No signs. So we thought she and the car had been taken."


a) missing pronoun? Who went back tot he office? This is linguistically distancing.

b) "went back .." implies they were in the office previously. Then states why they went back, this indicates sensitivity."to get money from the desk.." similar to hina clause presupposing the question Why did you go back? The law of economy would also not state "from the desk" why would the writer think we needed to know this? was there another place he was getting money from? is what we ask ourselves.

c) credit card / money mentioned in a tribute to a recently deceased daughter, WHY?

d) "..and came back to no car." this is strange wording and is in the negative heightening sensitivity of the writer. Is there no car because he/they/we pushed it into the river?

e) expected wording would be the car was gone. not "..and came back to no car."


f) "looked in the river No signs." why look in the river? unless you were expecting it to be in the river. "No signs." No is capitalized, WHY? "NO signs." WHY plural? was that the goal? "No signs." so they could claim as a missing child?


g) "So we thought she and the car had been taken." Pronoun "we" to share responsibility. This is unexpected wording. WHY? is it because it is the goal for "her" to go missing as she is mentioned before the car. if the car had been stolen with her in it I would expect the wording to indicate that. By mentioning "her" first but not calling it a kidnapping I suspect the author is with holding information and personal intent.

h) " .. she and the car had been taken." not calling it a kidnapping or a stolen car (with child inside) but the passive "taken", passivity is used to hide identity or responsibility.

Anonymous said...

General P. Malaise,

re f) g) and h)

I read the 'we' in g) as coming after a jump in time indicated by the 'so', and part of that jump could have been a conversation between the parents which would result in coming to a joint conclusion hence the 'we'.

Also during this time, which is a critical time when the child is missing (we haven't got to when the police found the car 'a while later'), he has chosen to use in his language:
'no sign'- if you said this without any context you'd think no sign of life and
'taken'- the kind of language used in a eulogy.
I think he's giving away knowledge of the child's death before the car was discovered by the police.

But all I know about this analysis stuff has been skimmed from this blog so I could be way off. Overall he sets out that he's going to tell us 'how' this happened and does nothing of the sort- just floats a few ideas then tells us how great the authorities are and what a great parent he was.

Anonymous said...

correction- I should have wrote no signs and no signs of life but I was looking at your post as I typed

Unknown said...

Anonymous said...
General P. Malaise,

re f) g) and h)


in SA you only state what is there. if they don't tell you who we is then do not assume who it is.

you may have noticed when I have a thought then I put a question mark behind it. often SA points you to questions from which we hope to reach answers.

"No signs" may mean different things to the author. if you say no signs of life then you must know he can see her or know she is dead. I don't think that can be inferred directly from the writing. he was talking in context of "no car". it would be a stronger link if it was in context of the daughter.

you are correct that "taken" is often used in eulogies. did he know she was dead? he may have.

the thing that stands out is "looked in the river" WHY? when you leave your car for a minute parked near a river do you go and check if it is in the river if it is gone? after that he uses passive language referring to the missing car with the daughter. a parent who thought a thief stole his car with his daughter inside would unlikely lead to passive language and more so if he thought she was kidnapped. passive language is used to conceal identity or responsibility.

Anonymous said...

Exactly that....
I hope at the very least they remove her other child from their custody

Buckley said...

Went back to the office to get money from the desk

Is this part only about the reason for leaving the car alone? In other words, he doesn't say did get money, only to get money. It tells why, not what.

Hey Jude said...

My thought is that the lack of pronouns is due to his reluctance to give a clear account of what happened, and who was where, when. He speaks for both of them when he says, ‘so we thought she and the car had been taken’ - I think it unlikely that would be the conclusion both would have drawn just because there were ‘no signs’ in the river. I think the odds on the car having gone into the water and been drawn downstream would seem much greater than a random car thief in a quiet rural area - especially of one who would steal a car with a baby inside - minis are small and it would be difficult to miss that there was a baby in the car. Also, viewing the proximity of the office to the slipway, and the construction of the building - corrugated sheeting which is unlikely to be sound insulated, it seems likely, if the car had been stolen, that they would have been alerted by the sound of the engine as it started and reversed up the slipway. They don’t say they heard anything - as such, would they not have been most likely to believe the car must have rolled silently into the river? He says ‘looked in the river’ with ‘no signs’ as the reason for believing the car was rather taken. It makes no sense to consider that the car is taken silently rather than sunk- the slipway was the known, immediate and present danger. The mother posts on Facebook "Can everyone look out for the car, It's been stolen with my 3-year-old daughter in it. Please share!" Kiara was not yet three.

Hey Jude said...

I am interested in why he said they thought ‘she and the car had been taken’, rather than that the car had been stolen, with his daughter inside it. I would only say ‘taken’ if I thought my daughter had been abducted. Neither parent said they believed that, rather they both concentrated on the theft of the car without saying they believed the reason was to abduct their daughter. If I believed the car was stolen in ignorance of the child in the car seat, I would not think to be polite about a thief’s actions, by saying the car was ‘taken’ - I’d say my car was stolen, and that my baby was in the car. I think the most likely scenario would be for them to fear that the car had gone into water, even though there were no signs, and to call 999 on that assumption, rather than, as the mother did, to make an appeal on Facebook asking people to look out for the car. I saw the post a short time after it was made - people responded asking if the police had been informed, and urging her to call the police. She had not responded to those posts. It may turn out that the police were not called as immediately as would be expected. I think realistically, and in that quiet rural community, a car theft would be less likely a thought than that the car must have rolled down the slipway. I wonder if the baby was left longer than a couple of minutes, and if there was some argument or stress in the office regarding finances, as the snapped bank card is an unexpected priority within the unexpected narrative.

Hey Jude said...

Another thought is that the car should be found to have had an almost empty fuel tank if money was needed to get home. That detail, of the snapped bank card as to why the mother went to the office seems so irrelevant, yet it takes priority in the narrative.

I think the ‘came’ and ‘went’ there could do with some looking into, as someone has already mentioned. Who was where, and should they have come or should they have gone, etc…it depends on who was where, which he avoids saying.

I wondered if all the need to explain was due to the baby having been left alone in the car for rather longer than the minute or two it might have taken for the mother to dash into the office - if they got caught up in an argument about money, during which time the car rolled down the slipway. If that were so, and they realised what had happened, and believed there would not be a chance of the baby being recovered alive, if they decided if ‘she and the car had been taken’, that could happen in seconds, and would seem less negligent. Would not be much logic in it, as the baby would soon be discovered to have been left long enough to drown in a runaway car. How long might it take for a car to sink? - as it was drawn 150 yards downstream it maybe would not have been visible from where they were even if it had been still afloat for a time. I don’t understand the preference for taken car over car in river - i’d want all the resources at the river - I’d think, as I didn’t hear anything, it must have gone down the slipway.

Hey Jude said...

I didn't keep to thoughts on only the statement. Kiara, and photos of the slipway and building has been in the news and my Facebook stream, so my comments are 'contaminated' by other sources - sorry. :-/.

On just the statement, though - the general tone, his not using Kiara's name. the 'just to let everyone know', the exclamation marks and the smiley don't sit right - it all seems unexpected, to me. I can understand his praise of the police, up to a point, because when everything is out of your control, and you don't know what to do, or can't do anything, it is comforting and reassuring to know they are there and are in control, and they do know what they are doing, and that they can do things. I don't think, if I was Jet Moore, I'd be able to say they had gone beyond the call of duty though, even if officially, they had (health and safety restraints?) - that I find strange. it's like saying they could have stood on the riverbank not doing anything, but they got the better of themselves and decided to jump in. I dunno, I think there's something of the backhanded compliment about that.

tania cadogan said...

Hi Hey Jude

Drowning of Two Boys by Mother in South Carolina Is Re-Enacted
May 25, 1995| From Associated Press

UNION, S.C. — Investigators rolled Susan Smith's car into a murky lake and let it sink with a waterproof video camera in the back seat Wednesday to show what her two little boys may have seen in their final moments.

It took about six minutes for the 1990 Mazda Protege to go under.

The car floated for some distance, its trunk lifting high into the air before it slid beneath the surface with a rush of bubbles. It came to rest upside down, with its newly replaced windshield cracked, much as divers had found the car on Nov. 3 after Smith confessed, State Law Enforcement Division spokesman Hugh Munn said. Munn would not say how deep the water was where the car sank.

Divers took photographs and investigators took videotapes from several angles on shore.

Sheriff Howard Wells, who got Smith to confess that she drowned her sons, stood grim-faced on the bank.

"We found that there were several questions during this investigation that needed to be answered before the trial, and a re-enactment was the only way we could do it," Wells said. He would not elaborate.

Smith's murder trial begins July 10. She could get the death penalty.

In her confession, Smith said she was suicidal the night of Oct. 25. But she got out of the car and let it roll into John D. Long Lake with 3-year-old Michael and 14-month-old Alex strapped into their car seats in the back.

Originally, she had told investigators that a carjacker had taken the boys.

Defense attorney David Bruck said he will probably pursue a defense that hinges on her mental state at the time. Smith, 23, has been examined by state doctors to determine if she was sane, but the judge has sealed the report.

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-05-25/news/mn-5905_1_car-seats



The car would not have sunk immediately due to the trapped air inside the vehicle, especially if all the windows were shut.
It likely would also have drifted away from the slipway before sinking,

It took about six minutes for the 1990 Mazda Protege to go under.

The car floated for some distance, its trunk lifting high into the air before it slid beneath the surface with a rush of bubbles. It came to rest upside down, with its newly replaced windshield cracked, much as divers had found the car on Nov. 3


The car would have floated for a few minutes until the water had gotten into the car via the gaps in the floor for the pedals and the air vents etc.
During this time the little girl would have been scared, probably calling for her parents, especially as soon as the freezing cold water reached her and her struggling to get out the car seat.

This then leads to the question, how long was the mother away from the child and car?
As has been pointed out, given the location of the car to the office and the material the office was made of, she would have heard the car engine start if it had been stolen (were the car keys in situ?)
What else was going on that she was away from her daughter for so long?
The snapped bank card makes no sense as they are notoriously strong and would bend rather than snap if sat on. To snap a card takes lots of bending back and forth before it finally snaps.

I would assume now they have the car that they would be checking the handbrake, if it was in gear or not, if the engine had been left running or not also if it was a manual or automatic and also if there were any faults in it.

What bothers me is the FB posts especially by the father.
He is the mother's boyfriend, is he the bio dad?
What is the family situation regarding finances?
Have there been issues regarding the family dynamics?


Anonymous said...

The daily mail said that the little girl died in hospital???
Stacked up lemons and snapped bank card
I think these two have snapped and all manor of hell broke loose in some domestic argument
I’m assuming they have a seriously disfunctional relationship
She might have an eating disorder
If the little girl was still alive then I guess that makes it more probable
That shit went down between them which ended in the grimmest way possible

Hey Jude said...

Tania, It would be good if the investigation involved a similar test of how that model car went into the river and how fast it would sink, and where - would help settle some disputes, particularly as to whether the baby was left for just a minute or two, or rather longer. It would be a better use of police resources than investigating malicious Facebook posts on the parents' (public) messages. I find the exclamation marks on all their posts unexpected - I associate them with excitement, insincerity, humour or lightheartedness.

I think he has older girl children from a previous relationship, while the mother has a son who is maybe a bit younger than the girls. Kiara has his name so he is likely her bio dad. The father was selling a breeding bull late last year - he describes himself as a farmer. They look to take skiing holidays with the children, which don't come cheap. He has university education. He's a Guardian reader, looks to have environmental interests, outdoor sports, canoeing etc is his livelihood - which all makes the uneducated sounding post which he deleted more strange.

---
Anon, they often report that a child died in hospital when he or she was dead before they arrived at the hospital - it's because that is when the time of death was officially recorded. The father said resuscitation efforts went on for hours - the little girl would not have been pronounced dead while resuscitation efforts were ongoing, even if she was dead.

Hey Jude said...

Deejay -I'm inclined to agree it was an accident.

Why do you think he avoids pronouns?

Hey Jude said...

Maybe he wrote that after a drink or two, or after he had been prescribed something for shock which made him dozy, and looked at it the next day, and thought something like, "What the hell was that incoherent ramble? - I don't write like that" - so deleted it. That would probably be to interpret, but it's also a thought about how he might have made and regretted that post, and we are giving thoughts on the post.

Alternatively, he dumbed himself down for reasons unknown, and the next day thought some people who knew him were just not going to buy that.

Or....

Turtle Babble said...

When do the pronouns appear and disappear? There are many missing pronouns, so something that stands out to me is the pronoun "I".

"She was an incredible happy young girl who lived I hope a great adventurous fun life."

The only use of the pronoun "I" is in this sentence. This is when he is psychologically present, when he speaks of "hope".
What does he hope? - that she lived a great adventurous fun life.

He wants this to be the case, so much so that he uses the pronoun "I" when he hasn't anywhere else. It appears when he starts to talk about her life, rather than her death.

Why is this the thing, the only thing he personally commits to in his statement?

Anonymous said...

Also when they found the car they was a simple post on fb saying car found nothing else later delelted you wouldnt put that if your car was found in a river with your child in the back you wouldnt post at all or you youed put it after you realise your child had died and with a lovely heartfelt message this family best get invetigated if us the public can see this isnt right surely they will

Anonymous said...

Went back to the office to get money from the desk

From the desk.

This extra wording and is not needed.
Why is it important for us to know where about in the office he went to get money.

Went back to the office to get money.

This is all that is needed. (yes it lacks commitment with the dropped pronoun)

For me there is nothing in their language at present to suggest involvement. I do, however, think that they are covering something else up, maybe financial issues. And it has leaked into their language.

Buckley said...

Good question, but to me, here, hope is more important as a qualifier. In a writing class many years ago, I remember being told to avoid the word "hope" as, while it's meant to be positive, the result is often that it implies doubt. The "I" reinforces that he owns that doubt.

tania cadogan said...

Latest posts from jet moore, the father on FB

Jet Moore RAR RAR🦁 (Kiara’s) funeral and party will be held on the 27th March

myself, Kim and family would like to invite you all to either the funeral and party for her happy life and birthday! ( or just be have a thought for her on this day and make some one happy)

Please bring kids if you can!😍 ( we are keeping it a happy celebration)

LOCATIONS
at Parc Gwyn Crematorium, Narberth, SA67 8UD on her birthday Tuesday 27th March 2018

DRESS CODE
Bright and beautiful and or fun only

PARTY -
Ffostrasol, Llandysul, Dyfed SA44 4SY
Fostrasell arms please please bring the kids there will be fun for them there too with maybe bouncy castle blooms and food. Let us know your coming please

if I have not invited you and you want to come message me or ask one of our friends for times

WHAT NEXT
Using her amazing happy life of Adventure that she gave us and we gave her, we are going to set up a trust to support people who are sad (metal health) and the outdoor environment.
So please do not buy flowers but donate money to this and we will make happy experiences for 100s and 1000s I hope!

Jet, Kim and Rar Rar (and family)

This is open and if you want to come ace if you can’t no worries



Another post apparently deleted but screen capped

Jet Moore

Thank you everyone for all the supportive messages.
those who have less helpful comments you are entitled to judge as you want.
But get the facts first.
have an opinion as I always have.
THINK! before your write and then ?

As for judging why this happenedI am, as for judging why I used face book.
Because I did before every day!
Why would I not now?

As for sadness and feeling I can't even begin to explain but her happiness keeps me going at the min.


Another post on FB

Jet Moore

Kiara was 100000000% innocent as was everyone involved in this awful thing!
The worst thing to happen to any perants , and there is no droughts of innocence and you are all welcome to your opinions.
All i would say is hold them to your self till have the full details and then say what you need to.


Another FB

Jet Moore

And as soon as it is the right time to tell the world how our amazing little girls went I and we will


There are plenty commenting on his page that don't buy the story and then others shouting them down as trolls and haters because everyone grieves differently

Willow said...

Agreeing with comments already covering the case skillfully.
Needless to say, this isn't analysis. I'm a follower of the blog only, hopped on board when Peter H. did the analysis of the McCanns for Richard D.Hall.

It is unusual that the police gives a pre-warning for the writers and commentators of the social media.
Just a thought, but could the warning be connected with the experiences of the Paul Black's daughter Pearl's death reported here in SA earlier this year.
When reading this case yesterday it brought to mind the Merthyr Tydfil case. Similarities:
- Both happened in the Wales
- Baby girls as victims, at about the same age
- Runaway car rolling downhill as the killer
- Father of the victim-child is clearly older than the mother
- Mother has her own surname
- Parents open up about their private thoughts and feelings voluntarily for the media, in Facebook risking, naturally, to receive emotionally laden comments and response...

Anonymous said...

The whole post is way too happy. He isn't concerned with how the child suffered - which she surely did - while drowning & during resuscitation attempts. Grieving people express feeling guilty - whether they were in way culpable - and regret -
Why did I allow x to drive, leave so ear!y or so late or in those weather conditions???

Lucia D said...

I tend to agree, this was an accidental death, though one caused by negligence. Seems to me there is lots of guilt leaking out in their posts. Father shows a very sensitive need to persuade how "amazing, happy" and adventurous her life was. I agree with Buckley that NTP makes me wonder if perhaps the girl's life was not so happy.

Willow said...

If the law hasn't been changed, anyone who out of their free will talks about their private, intimate selves in the media, with their own name, diminishes their right to privacy.
Loss of privacy may last a lifetime. A person cannot very effectively claim compensation of the extended grief the unwanted publicity brings unless there's some obvious overkill.

A person publishing pleas, thank yous, appeals etc. in Fb and elsewhere have their motives while doing it. They forget at the moment that they cannot control all the reactions their message has provoked.

Suing the media and the offending commentators, publications and writers, isn't usually successful.

Deejay said...

Hey Jude- I think he avoids pronouns because of EXTREME guilt over not preventing her death. But the cheerfulness is because the family loves her, and he wants to give meaning to her short life. 'Live' in the happy times, if you will. Rar Rar, her pet name, is special to them and brings them a tiny sense of normality, pride, and love. Family members and especially parents have a hard time accepting an accidental death all at once-- your emotional brain clings to the idea that the child will walk in from the other room-- for a long time. (weeks, even months) On one hand you know they died, emotionally, you just can't deal with it being real. The fog is incredible and all-consuming- you are incapable of normal thought and behavior. (eating, sleeping, cooking, short-term memory) Also, talking (even typing) in the present tense is so normal that, in your fog and pain, you forget - 'She loves grapes, she likes to play out back.' etc. FB has become a support system for many, and I have seen other people turn to the platform during a tragic death of a young person--

I lived through the death of my middle school brother in a tragic accident. (he fell from a 300 foot cliff) Just now typing this has brought back the devastation for me and it has been decades... It took me two years to feel remotely normal.

Alex said...

Will these kids ever be OK?

http://www.weau.com/content/news/Complaint-Woman-allowed-men-to-sexually-assault-children-for-drugs-money-in-Eau-Claire-477670743.html

Alex

Anonymous said...

Snipped from an earlier blog entry from, Peter

Unnecessary Information Lesson

"I went to the library."

This sentence, on its form, is reliable. If the subject is lying, the subject is now moving into a category that investigators and analysts need to explore for habitual or pathological lying.

"I left my house and went to the library."

The additional words, "I left my house and" are not only additional (the law of economy is the short cut of language) but they are "unnecessary" to add.
End snip.

Picking up on anons post.
AnonymousMarch 23, 2018 at 8:29 AM
Went back to the office to get money from the desk

From the desk.

This extra wording and is not needed.
Why is it important for us to know where about in the office he went to get money.

Went back to the office to get money.

This is all that is needed. (yes it lacks commitment with the dropped pronoun)

For me there is nothing in their language at present to suggest involvement. I do, however, think that they are covering something else up, maybe financial issues. And it has leaked into their language.


Money, credit cards, office, business, work, holidays, desk and so on..

Do they have debts?
Is their business in trouble?
Qqqqq's

Alex said...

"Went back to the office to get money from the desk and came back to no car. looked in the river No signs. So "WE" thought she and the car had been taken."

"We" implies they both went into the office to get money because came back to no car. If they both were not in the office then one of them would have been a witness to what happened. Why did both of them need to go back into the office? Maybe they are trying to conceal how long they were away from the car.

Alex

Anonymous said...

IF they knew what was happening (car sinking with daughter in it) while they were in the office, waiting at the desk, fighting any natural urges to stop what had been set in motion, and forcing themselves to sit and wait a while ... I think the image of the desk will stay with him forever.

The facade of looking for money until enough time passed for there to be no sign of the car, and the heightened hormonal response has made an imprint.

Anonymous said...

Anon said

"The facade of looking for money until enough time passed for there to be no sign of the car, and the heightened hormonal response has made an imprint."

Excellent point, Anon.

This maybe one reason why it (desk) entered his language. (Sensitive)

It wass on his his mind for a reason. That reason, is to be explored.

Hey Jude said...

Thanks, Deejay - thank you.

Hey Jude said...

This is how I understand Jet Moore’s account - mother and daughter had been at the office, as he says *they* got into her car to go home - he wasn’t with them. When the mother sat down, her bank card snapped - sounds unlikely, but As she needed money for petrol and etc, to get home, and her card was broken, she went back to the office to get money from the desk, rather than to the bank. He gives that information in order to explain how the car came to be parked on the slipway with the baby inside.

My thought was that Jet Moore was already at the office, and around the point at which the car was found to no longer be on the slipway, the parents were together. I thought that because he said ‘we thought she and the car had been taken’ - but he could have been elsewhere, as the mother might have phoned him to say the baby and car were missing - he doesn’t make his whereabouts clear, but the ‘we’ seems. Say they might have been together.

‘Went back to the office to get money from the desk and came back to no car.’
Here, he is still talking about the ‘they’ who got into the car, or more specifically the ‘she’, as the baby was not the one whose purpose was to get money from the desk.

If, as seems evident, the missing pronoun is ‘she’ - (it cannot be ‘they’ as the baby is gone with the car) the sentence would read ‘she went back to the office to get money from the desk and came (or ‘she came’) back to no car’.

I am puzzling as to where does that statement put Jet?

When I say someone came to a place, that means the place where I am. They came to my house, or they came to this country (where I am) - ‘came’ relates to the place where I am. If I’m not there, they ‘went’. I think that application is the same for everyone?

Where is Jet when he is writing the Facebook post?

If he is at home, or anywhere other than besides the location of the car, would he not write: ‘went back to the office to get money from the desk and *went* out to no car’?

If he was at the office when he wrote it, would he not write: ‘came back to the office to get money from the desk and *went* out (or outside) to no car’?

I think to write what he did - ‘went back to the office to get money from the desk and came out to no car’ that he is either writing that while parked up at the location the car was before it rolled away (quite possible if the slipway was not cordoned off) - or otherwise he is there, in his mind. Might that be due to traumatic recall?

Is he thinking of himself at that spot at the time Kim ‘came back to no car’, and they discovered ‘she and it had been taken’? It seems he could have been on the spot when she came back to no car - or he could just be remembering standing there at the time they both thought ‘she and the car had been taken’. That ‘came’ is a brain twister, to me. He doesn’t say Kim called to him or got him from the office - he doesn’t say where he was - he doesn’t say quite a bit of what he might have said.

There is no logic in, “looked in the river. No signs. *So* we thought she and the car had been taken.” That is the less likely thing to have happened - if I were him, I wouldn’t want to be alone in drawing that conclusion either. They both apparently thought the less likely thing, then the mother posted it on Facebook as a fact that her car had been stolen with her daughter in it - yet neither said they had heard the car as it was driven away, which surely, they would have if it was parked outside the office on the slipway.

Would it be reasonable to think, by the ‘came’, that he is placing himself at the location the car was parked? Even if it is, I think that could be due to trauma as he recalled standing in the spot where it should have been, or because he maybe has returned there since - he will have to go there as it is his place of business. I think there are several possibilities for why he chose ‘came’ - but I don’t know which, if any, might be correct.

Hey Jude said...

The lack of pronouns. I agree with what Deejay said - extreme guilt at not preventing his daughter’s death. Also, an unwillingness to take ownership of most of what he is saying, and extreme distancing - he does not say his daughter’s name, or Kim’s name, or that Kiara was left in the car, or that it rolled down the slipway while he and her mother were in the office. He doesn’t say that, though the reason for the post is “just to let everyone who keeps asking know how.” He does not actually say what happened, or how, excepting that the police found the car a while later and tried for hours to revive her, but could not. He writes that it is the reason for his post, yet he does not make the post he says it is. There is so much evasiveness, even accounting for shock and trauma - it would seem quite an effort for anyone to avoid quite so many pronouns.

Lucia D said...

Yes the scenario of the car (and child ) being taken IS less likely than than the car (parked on a boat ramp!) rolling into the water. Think horses, not zebras. So the parents leaping to that conclusion smells fishy. Might be an attempt to delay rescue attempts?

Alex said...

Hey Jude,

You may be correct. If Jet had told us he was in the office it would make more sense to me.

Alex

Lemon said...

"Everyone done their best." - JM Really?

She is just a "she". "She and the car" Why isn't "she" a priority? He doesn't use her name. I find this surprising.
His priority is the "how" and he blames a fruit? A fruit.

Agree with Hobs - dropped pronouns :)

Tkmac said...

Obvious thing that jumped out to me was ,how can a car roll into the water with the break on?poor little girl she must of been terrified,

Hey Jude said...

Well, in rural settings it can take quite a while for emergency services to arrive - so, the Facebook posts from the mother stating as fact the car had been stolen with her daughter inside - when she did not know that and it was the less likely scenario - does raise the question of whether that was a delaying tactic, and a diversion of police manpower. If it was a delaying tactic and they knew it most likely the baby was in the river, what reason could there be to create a wild goose chase? i would wonder - if they did not want the baby to be saved - but if so, why? - or if the baby could not be saved because she had died before the car went into the river. I can't imagine it did not raise suspicion when it was discovered the car had been parked on the slipway, yet the mother claimed it was stolen. I would want to ask what reason there was to post on Facebook as fact that the car was stolen, while it may and should have seemed more likely that the car was in the river and the baby was drowning. I'd like to know if in the 999 call, any fear was expressed that the car with the baby inside might be in the river.

"And as soon as it is the right time to tell the world how our amazing little girls went I and we will". - Jet Moore

- when is there a right time to tell the world how their amazing little girl went? In the earlier post, he said he was just letting everyone who had asked know how, yet he did not say how. According to the news, Kiara drowned in the car.

----

"Kiara was 100000000% innocent as was everyone involved in this awful thing!
The worst thing to happen to any perants , and there is no droughts of innocence and you are all welcome to your opinions.
All i would say is hold them to your self till have the full details and then say what you need to." - Jet Moore

----

No-one is questioning Kiara's innocence, only how she came to be in a submerged car in the river Teifi, and how a stack of lemons and a broken bsnk card became features of the narrative.


Anonymous said...

Kiara was 100000000% innocent as was everyone involved in this awful thing!

Who's "everyone"?
Would this come under the hiding among a crowd, principle?

"Awful thing"

Why minimise?

Bobcat said...

For data collection purposes, I did see a bank card 'snap' once in my lifetime.

It was a 'prehistoric' MasterCharge card that my mother had taken out of her wallet.
When she tried to put it back into its slot, it snapped in half!

It was about 35 years ago and likely made from less pliable material than today's cards. Old cards weren't swiped through strip readers or inserted into chip readers, but placed under a paper form into a manual imprinter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7wutgAlNHk



Willow said...

Already yesterday it bothered me that the mother Kim was so quick to confess.
What did she say, in effect?

""Kimberly Rowlands wrote on Facebook:

“Sadly yesterday my beautiful baby girl passed away! Due to my own stupidity, I will have to live with the guilt for the rest of my life! Mummy loves you baby girl and I’m so sorry!” ""

What Kim doesn't say, we can't say for her.

Kim doesn't say that she caused her daughter's drowning by:
- driving the silver Mini to the sloping passageway
- parking it there
- and, parking it so that it rolled down to the river. This is a point that woke me up. How could a mother of two not instinctively sense danger on a slope towards the river. A mother parking the way it is supposed to have happened must have been out of her normal senses.

Kim definitely doesn't say that it was she who left baby Kiara in the car alone under the presumed, unclear circumstances. The boyfriend, Jet, does not give us that information either. From his side there's a lot of missing words, missing time, evading of personal responsibility and caretaking of own ant the business's virtuous image.
This is sensitive from Jet: "Kiara was 100000000% innocent as was everyone involved in this awful thing!"
Jet accuses with this phrase in a pathological, narcissistic way the dead daughter of causing 'the awful thing' = her own drowning to death that she did to him, the father.
Now SA analysts, please carefully look at this, if this is a leakage, embedded confession. Jet introduces here the idea of someone's commitment with this awful thing (crime?). Did the father have stg to do with the daughter's death?
Does Jet with 'everyone involved' point a finger to Kim who recently published her piece with non-confession?

The twisted idea of 'billion times innocence' when no one has hinted that the dead victim could be the culprit is often seen (was it not also present in a message by Paul Black) in wordings of clearly malignant personalities.

We don't know anything reliable about how the car ended in the river with baby Kiara. We don't know where Kiara died, how or when.
She could have accidentally been hurt elsewhere much earlier in some other manner than drowning.

How could all this happen for the parents in their familiar environment? Why were there no big enough stones or a fence to stop this kind of accident just waiting to happen?
The brakes, gears, handbrake didn't work or they were not on.
As a safety measure the car could have been parked slightly askew, on the cross, to make sure it won't fall in the river in a slot like this. Very odd.

Kim's words tell us that she accuses herself of 'her' (not our) beloved, beautiful baby daughter's death. No mention of who did what, when.
She now realizes in her short piece that she has been stupid. No mention of, in which particular manner, doing what decisions, at which point of her life.
And, according to her understanding when writing these words, her own stupidity and its consequences are causing guilt that she connects with the loss of her daughter to death.
Kim apologizes to her daughter and is prepared to live with this guilt for the rest of her life.






Willow said...


Jet says:
"Kiara was 100000000% innocent as was everyone involved in..."

By deciding to write this in his post Jet communicates that this innocence-guilty -polarity is a high priority matter for him. He is at least interested in it enough to write about it.

Jet's sentence reads:

Someone who is not Kiara or does not belong to those who Jet calls 'involved in this awful thing' is, in his thinking, guilty of (this awful thing).


Habundia Awareness said...

Wow this post is shocking! Reading it gave me chills!
There seems to be a big age difference between the father and the mother……..fb mother tells us 2013 they became a couple
'Just to let every one who keeps asking how know'
People mostly 'keep asking' when they don't get an answer to their question or when the answer they get isn't satisfying and so they 'keep asking'. Why not just answer those 'who keep asking' how....? Why the need to post it on facebook so even those who doesn’t ask read it too. I went on his facebook account to see if I could find anything on it. I’ve read a lot of responses of people who reacted on the loss of Kiara…………I didn’t read anyone asking HOW! I only read people saying their hearts go out to them and things of that nature. Nobody asked ……how……..so again why his need to face this message on FB while nobody on his account was asking how.
'it was the lemons stacked up too far!'
@Bobcat: ‘The kid was fun for a few years, but the parents are ready to move on with their life unencumbered by the responsibility of raising her to adulthood.’
This is what I was thinking for this sentence he started his post with
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/53509/why-lemon-for-a-faulty-or-defective-item
To me it says 'it was to heavy of a burden. It got beyond the limit and it collapsed.' On the mothers facebook account I read around Valentine’s day that it was cancelled because of stress……so what made her to be so stressed that she couldn’t celebrate Valentine’s day?
On her account she’s regularly telling her love for him. On his account I didn’t see one post that was saying he loved her or even suggesting that he was having a relation with her (her status tells us she has a boyfriend, his doesn’t)
"They got in the car to go home.'
No name is used, no social introduction for his Kiara and her mom. 'They' is not specific on who 'they' is. It could be anyone.
When a person tells us ‘they’ did something……..he or she isn’t including themselves into the statement. People don’t use ‘they’ if they are referring to themselves in a group. It would be ‘we’, so by saying ‘they got in the car’……..he didn’t go in the car.
"Sat on bank card which snapped and needed money to get home etc."
Pronouns is missing twice. Who sat on bank card and who needed money to get home etc? If 'they got in the car to go home' why would there be money needed to get home? Gasoline needed? (where there financial problems?).....etc. not only money 'to get home' was needed, but money for 'etc'.
After reading some of the responses here I saw others were thinking of financial problems too. When did this happen (sat on bank card). It doesn't say that it happened at that moment it is stated (after they got in the car), it could easily have happened days before……it doesn’t tell by the statement.
"Went back to the office to get money from the desk and came back to no car."
What were 'they' doing at the office in the first place, before 'they got in the car to go home', 'sat on a bank card which snapped and needed money to get home etc'. Why would the mother and the child be at the office to then ‘go home’

Habundia Awareness said...

‘came back to no car’
Again pronouns is missing twice. Who went back to the office? Who took money from the desk? Who came back to no car? He doesn't say a name so we don’t know who ‘went to the office and came back to no car’. It also isn’t said in any way that the child was still in the car when ‘went back to the office’.
Why wouldn’t they have taken the money before they got into the car if money was needed to ‘get home’? Why first ‘got in the car’ to than ‘went back to the office to get money’? What happened that made to ‘get back to the office’? Why not take the money in the first place before leaving.
From this point I would expect PANIC! Pure and clean PANIC!
If I would come back to 'no car' in which I knew I had my baby left, strapped in his/her car seat, I would be in absolute panic mode.
‘looked in the river No signs. So we thought she and the car had been taken’
Without any context to this statement it sounds odd to ‘look in the river’ before thinking the car had been stolen (taken)
Did the engine kept running while ‘went back to the office’?

Suddenly ‘the police found the car a while later’ (as if the car had been parked a couple of blocks away and they ‘found’ the car.
No mentioning calling 999. If they ‘thought she and the car had been taken’
“The police found the car a while later and went way beyond the call of duty jumping in and pulling her out.”
No chronicle order. Didn’t police had to jump into the river before they could have found the car (if there were no signs that the car was in the river then how would the police be able to find the car before jumping in?
I don’t know what the situation exactly was at the time for him to say ‘looked in the river’……what would his reason be to looking in the river. Was there any reason to think that the car would have ended up in the river? Cars don’t go rolling down into a river by themselves if they are parked on flat roads, engine is being shut down and handbrake is being used. (unless there is a defect on the car)
‘Everyone done their best.’
I didn’t read he or his girlfriend did ANYTHING! He never says they did anything except ‘looked in the river’. They only one who seem to have done anything were the police. So how did police ‘found’ the car?
Only once he’s using the ‘I’ pronouns………..’who lived I hope a great adventurous fun life’
I have a 3 year old…………..he has already difficulty to walk from my home around the block, he already complains he’s getting tired………so I wonder all the activities they did with this 2 year old weren’t they to heavy and even dangerous to do for a girl her age?
Two year olds don’t ‘want to be called’ anything. I’ve two children, both never asked me ‘mommy call me…..and then pick a name’………(k)nick names is what you choose yourself to use on a person (child), children don’t ask to give them (k)nick names. Maybe it’s how she called herself that because she wasn’t able to pronouns her name correct or because she was called that way, but I do not think she would have asked to be called that way herself.
https://ufile.io/6je6g (this is a post on his fb……probably written after he deleted this message we see in this blog.)

Habundia Awareness said...

Everyone says it was an ‘accident’…………this message doesn’t tell me the writer says it was an accident……..so if the writer can’t say it was an accident………we can’t say it for him!
He started his post saying he just wanted to ‘let every one who keeps asking how know'……yet he didn’t tell ‘how’ he only told us ‘what’……..he doesn’t tell how the car could have ended up in the river, he doesn’t say an accident happened. Instead he’s praising the police for ‘going beyond their duty’…..which he never did…….he didn’t jumped in the river to look for his child……he didn’t say he did anything to find his daughter………he was praising other who did do exactly that……help his daughter.
@Anonymous: ‘She says my beautiful baby girl passed away ? Passed away ? always makes me think of a peaceful death ! Or an expected death after an illness maybe ? Not a child that allegedly drowned which is horrific !!!! “
I was thinking the same thing……..who says ‘passed away’ when their child just has drowned? Wouldn’t you say………..’my beautiful baby girl died (drowned) in a terrible accident’ (or something like that)
I think I had more concern in my head when reading into this message of what the child would have been experiencing while getting into the water while in the car and slowly went under water, then I read any of her parents show.
@Unknown: ‘"No signs" may mean different things to the author. if you say no signs of life then you must know he can see her or know she is dead. I don't think that can be inferred directly from the writing. he was talking in context of "no car". it would be a stronger link if it was in context of the daughter”
Wasn’t the daughter in the car? So would the context not be both…………the car and the child? If the child is in the car and the car is gone then the child is gone too (or the child had to been able to get out of the car by themselves……….two year old aren’t able to unbuckle their car seats, at least my kids weren’t able to do that. The fact he only mention the car in context of ‘no signs’ and not the child is to me concerning. Who the fack gives a fuck about a car if your child is in the car missing?
@Hey Jude: ‘ I would only say ‘taken’ if I thought my daughter had been abducted.’
If your car was gone when you came back outside and your child would have been in it, wouldn’t you think your child was abducted……….even if the car was ‘only’ stolen? I would immediately say my child had been taken or abducted………I wouldn’t even think only the car had been ‘taken’ (stolen)……..the car would be of my last concern.
@tania cadogan: ‘During this time the little girl would have been scared, probably calling for her parents, especially as soon as the freezing cold water reached her and her struggling to get out the car seat.’
I’ve read often children who drown do it in silence, especially young children. This child was used to be surrounded by water so maybe she didn’t even felt in danger until it was too late.
I don’t think at the time the news got out there had been done a pathological examination on the girl, wouldn’t it? So did the girl really died because of drowning. Both mom and dad do not mention anything about the child died because of drowning. Only the mother shows some ‘guilt’ in her posting……father show’s anything but guilt…….he’s deceptive and withholds information.

Habundia Awareness said...

@Deejay: ‘FB posts are usually made in this kind of shorthand, rather than paragraphs.

To me, the parents seem in shock and are remembering the love they have for their daughter.(They both feel guilt for not keeping her safe.) The tragedy has not become very real yet. That will take a few days or weeks. I think incredible pain will follow and that they will struggle with mental health. I do not believe they did anything to their daughter intentionally and that this is an accident.”
I do not agree on that. Father doesn’t state any guilt in his posting. Only the mother shows some guilt by saying ‘she did something stupid’
@Hey Jude: ‘Maybe he wrote that after a drink or two, or after he had been prescribed something for shock which made him dozy, and looked at it the next day, and thought something like, "What the hell was that incoherent ramble? - I don't write like that" - so deleted it. That would probably be to interpret, but it's also a thought about how he might have made and regretted that post, and we are giving thoughts on the post.”
https://ufile.io/6je6g (so why did he replace it with this post if he thought it was ‘incoherent ramble’? To me he didn’t make it any better with replacing it with this message?)
@Lucia D: ‘I tend to agree, this was an accidental death, though one caused by negligence”
Negligence……….is not accidental in my world. Accidental means something happened which you couldn’t prevent from happening……negligence is something you can prevent…….if negligence would be ‘accidental’ then it wouldn’t be a crime to be ‘negligence’………accidents aren’t a crime. To me negligence and accident do not belong to each other.

tania cadogan said...

"Kiara was 100000000% innocent

Something can only be 100%

If there can be 100000000% how high does his version of percentages climb?

Why does Kiera's dad need to tell us she is innocent in this case?
She was strapped into a car seat, she played no part in driving the car, deciding where to go, where to park, parking the car and leaving the car.

The father then links his daughters innocence and the parents innocence making it sensitive, more so given there is a billion percent innocence which is impossible.
You can only ever be 100% innocent.

I would be asking about the state of the family finances, are they in debt? Are they struggling to make payments?
Is the business in trouble?
I would also be asking about the family dynamics.
Are they known to police or social services?
Have they been unexplained injuries?
Have neighbors heArd rows, fights, loud screams or crying?
Does mental health play a part in the family?

Why are their fb posts so unusual in their language and emotion?

What will the autopsy reveal?

The mom at a minimum could face neglect charges and possibly manslaughter charges since she was the parent responsible for Kiera at the moment she parked the car and left her daughter inside.

Mizzmarple said...

Great points.

JMO: The father is desperately trying to portray this as an accident - which it may be an accident.

1,000,000,000,000 % innocent is his desperate attempt to align himself with the victim. Overkill, IMO.

At a minimum it is gross negligence to leave a child alone in a car - even for 1 second - especially on a slope that goes into a river.

This reminds me of the little girl Pearl who was run over by a "parked vehicle".

Hinky, both cases.

Habundia Awareness said...

The mom at a minimum could face neglect charges and possibly manslaughter charges since she was the parent responsible for Kiera at the moment she parked the car and left her daughter inside.

This is what the father says.......nothing in both their post tells us how the situation exactly was so we don't know.

BTW........like many other children who died unnatural deaths.......it would be her birthday next week.....just something I noticed.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dads-horrific-explanation-how-two-14434524
I watched this clip......it makes the situation even more questionable.

https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.0819362,-4.6589127,3a,60y,92.62h,77.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7-EaqNNuOrU0O11UDRhwAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Why would you park a car on a slope while there is enough other places to park your car? It doesn't seem like a 'normal' place to put your car and park it.
I wouldn't even come close to that slope to park my car afraid of the car rolling into the river........even without a child sitting in it.

Hey Jude said...

The report at Habundia's link above says Kiara was pulled alive from the vehicle. I wonder if the Coroner's report will confirm that - It was two hours before the car was located.

Someone who also parks in the area posted that the mother didn't usually park her car on the slipway but further up, on the flat.

Habundia - I think he wanted the reader to take from his account that as Kim got into the car to go home, her bank card broke. As she needed money to get home, it must be that the fuel gauge was near empty - she couldn't use the broken card to fill up, so she went back to the office to get money for petrol/gas. I have difficulty believing the bank card was broken in that way - it takes a lot of effort to snap a modern bank card - they are more flexible than the type issued decades ago, when it was not so unusual for a card to break by sitting with one in your jeans back pocket. I would want to ask some questions round that - it may be the card was broken in an argument to prevent it from being used. It is strange he wrote about the bank card before not saying how he believed the baby got into the river. I agree he is deceptive - the lack of pronouns is striking, a bit like the "droughts of innocence" in his later post.

Anonymous said...

From one of the father’s recent FB posts:
WHAT NEXT
Using her amazing happy life of Adventure that she gave us and we gave her, we are going to set up a trust to support people who are sad (metal health) and the outdoor environment.
So please do not buy flowers but donate money to this and we will make happy experiences for 100s and 1000s I hope!

FB post from the mother on January 26:
Can anyone help me by filling in this questionnaire. I’m doing a research project of depression and the outdoors and need all the help I can get... thank you!

FB post from the mother on January 23:
Anyone want to donate food to the poor and desperate? ... come deliver some to my car!!

Anonymous said...

Trust fund for sad people and the outdoors --> themselves.

Very sad.

Anonymous said...

Yesterday an American man was sentanced to 3 years for leaving a child to die in a hot car. Something similar certainly seems appropriate in this case, even if their story is believed by authorities.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if it will be the father's outdoor adventures company that will 'make happy experiences for 100s and 1000s' - all paid for by donations in the name of this poor dead child? Inspired by the Madeleine McCann fund, perhaps? As someone else pointed out, both girls died just days before their birthday.
The way Kiara's father is planning to turn her funeral into a birthday celebration (possibly complete with bouncy castle) makes me shiver.
Just add a load of balloons and it will be the McCanns all over again on what would have been their daughter's birthday.

Willow said...

I saw in one of Kim's Fb-posts around 2017 Oct her mentioning activities in Half Term and going back to her Psychology Essay.
The depression questionnaire was part of her studies, it seems.
As for the plea for donations of food for the poor ... had a big grin emoticon in it. Maybe a joke?

The couple seems to live an active life, travelling abroad for ski holidays and doing what families with children usually do, outings, etc..
A lot of it certainly is connected with their business and the expenses can be partly tax-deductible.
But, the unbelievable story of the credit-card breaking when someone was sitting on it, and someone going to get back money from the desk, could well be telling of money problems.
Or, problems in how the couple handles the situations generally together.

No one can tell from the outside how relationships are really like for each of the parties. This is common in average, 'normal' relationships. The two parties usually are not very clear about their situation either until the other shows symptoms of more severe distress. Something unexpected may abruptly take place and the faultless front falls off revealing long term dysfunction, even an abuser and a victim enmeshed in a traumatic bond.

I hope the Welsh police is wise and skillful in talking to the parents separately, so that the truth is allowed to come out.

There are always many understandable motivations why a deception has been told in the first place.

BallBounces said...

O/T Please analyze evangelical pastor Bill Hybel's denial of sexual impropriety: https://www.premier.org.uk/News/World/None-of-these-are-true-Willow-Creek-s-Bill-Hybels-rejects-misconduct-allegations?utm_source=Premier%20Christian%20Media&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=9308360_daily%20news%2024%20march&utm_content=1&dm_i=16DQ,5JIDK,CD6U47,LI55H,1

BallBounces said...

https://tinyurl.com/yc5cwmkg

Hey Jude said...

Jet wasn't there when the car went into the river - the "we thought" must have been via phone/text:


Jet Moore One point that has been badly reported ! Is I was working over an hour away and frantically tried to arrange a search lead by every one I could think of

Anonymous said...

Good post Willow. I agree that the broken debit card story is not very feasible. Hard enough to cut these cards in half with scissors. Too much emphasis on money in this story, for whatever reason.
Do you know any more about Kim's other child - a boy - who is mentioned and pictured in her FB posts now and again, but who does not seem to live with her and Jet permanently? Seems like a child she had when she was only a young teenager herself.
Quite a big age gap beteeen Kim and Jet. Wonder if he is some sort of father figure that she has longed for, and feels she cannot oppose.
He's the one who has set the tone of this story by doing most of the talking on behalf of both of them.

Hey Jude said...


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/river-two-year-old-slipway-14439915


Two-year-old Kiara Moore died at the scene of the tragic accident which killed her, it has been revealed.

The little girl was airlifted by the Wales Air Ambulance to University of Wales Hospital in Cardiff on Monday after being pulled from a car which had rolled into the River Teifi in Cardigan.


But it has now been revealed that she had already passed away, despite the desperate efforts of the emergency services.

A spokesperson for the Ceredigion Coroner’s Office has confirmed that the place of death was near the riverbank slipway on the Strand area of Cardigan town centre.

Hey Jude said...

Well, that makes it seem even more evasive, to not mention that he was an hour away. That, "so we thought" makes it seem the parents were together when they both thought the same less likely thought.

Willow said...

An hour away from the place, the slipway by the building of his business. Is that so?

Is Jet saying that he was away (was there anyone else?) in his office when (supposedly) Kim went there? Why did she go there in the first place? Then while there she went back and forth, from the car that, the second time wasn't there, leaving the baby inside alone, having parked in an unusual spot?

Of course, everything is possible.
But why didn't Jet say in his fb-message that he was away one hour from the place where the car disappeared? He deliberately builds the sentences so that this fact is not there.
He doesn't say that the communication between him and Kim happened on the phone. Why is that? What is there to be kept secret?

Why did Kim call him first? Not the ambulance? Kim must have realized the baby Kiara was in the car either in the water or on land somewhere.
It was Kim as the only person who was there by the riverbank looking in the water, not seeing the car. Or, was it?

Why did he think that he could decide what happened to the car without being in the place himself?
Is it so that Jet didn't call first the paramedics and life-savers, either, but instead started to "arrange a search" "led by every one I could think of".
Does Jet mean, that the search was for the "taken" car or the drowned car and the daughter Kiara?

Jet says (where does he say this, btw, @Hey Jude): ..."and frantically tried to arrange a search lead by every one I could think of".

Why didn't Kim call the emergency number first? Or am I getting this right at all?

Habundia Awareness said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Habundia Awareness said...

Hey Jude I found it odd too it said she was pulled out the car alive. Maybe it's because she was only pronounced deceased at the hospital that reporters would think she was still alive when she was pulled out of the vehicle and was revived for so long.
You say you 'think he wanted' but in SA you are not supposed to 'think what the subject is saying'. I get he wanted his public to believe the bank card snapped (people snap too, and aren't that easy to break too, just like a bank card) and that it happened before 'they got in the car to go home'.......but he doesn't say the bank card snapped at that specific point and he also isn't telling his public who sat on it......so we don't know when that happened and who did it.....we only know he felt it important enough to begin his statement with.
I guess you ment that's why they didn't take money before getting in the car?

@Anonymous March 24, 2018 at 12:42 PM: I read those messages too when I was looking into those accounts...I noticed them too to be odd posts.

"The way Kiara's father is planning to turn her funeral into a birthday celebration (possibly complete with bouncy castle) makes me shiver.", Anonymous said.
I had to think of other cases I read about, in which children died before their birthday and the funeral was held as if it was a birthday party.

Children who died before or just after their birthday:
http://fox6now.com/2017/12/20/police-august-death-of-toddler-now-ruled-a-homicide-amended-charges-coming-soon/ (Lesley Hill, 1)
http://time.com/4468478/new-mexico-girl-killed-birthday-party/ (Victoria Martens, 10)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-boy-4-dies-in-possible-domestic-incident-on-southwest-side-20111125-story.html {Christopher Valdez, 4)
http://wivb.com/2013/03/20/teen-allegedly-beats-1-yr-old-to-death/ (Austin Smith, 1)
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/special-reports/article153578214.html (Khalil Gilbert, 2)
http://www.dailypress.com/news/crime/dp-nws-guilty-plea-child-abuse-hampton-2yo-0420-20170425-story.html (Brianna Sandy, 2)
pix11.com/2017/12/12/mother-pleads-guilty-in-3-year-old-sons-freezing-death/ (Landyn Basinger, 3)
http://abc11.com/news/child-advocate-pushes-for-rylans-law-after-boys-death/1896971/ (Rylan Ott's, 1)
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article189668759.html (Baby Lollipops, Lazaro, 3)
http://fox13now.com/2016/08/19/loved-ones-mourn-utah-girl-who-died-on-eve-of-1st-birthday-father-booked-for-child-abuse/ (Siri, 1 day before 1st birthday)

tania cadogan said...

The mom's FB post about her missing car is very strange.

She posts her car has been stolen and asks people to look out for it yet...

She gives no description of said b vehicle.
no make or model of the color.
No color
no number plate.
And, most importantly...

No mention at all that her daughter was strapped inside the car when it disappeared!

No mention of her child's appearance.
No mention of her name.
No mention of her age.
Nothing.
As far as the post is concerned a car is missing presumed stolen.


She asks us to look for a car, a car with no way for us to know what to look for.
was this deliberate in order to delay a search?

Why is her car her priority and not the child inside?

We know she has another child who does not live with her, why is this?
Was he voluntarily handed over to another to be cared for or was it imposed on her?

What was her relationship like with her daughter?

Were they known to social services?
If so why?
Was there something upcoming that would affect their relationship?

Are they know to Police?
If so why?

What is their financial situation like?
Are there debts?
Are there student loans or other due?

What about insurance?

Can they provide the bank card that snapped?
was it snapped ie by repeated bending or was it cut if it was damaged at all?

Why did she park where she did?
Why did she park how she did?
How does she normally park?
Where does she normally park?
If different to usual what caused her to park the way she did?

Given the proximity to the building would she not have heard the car start if she thought it had been stolen?
Did she leave the engine running?
If so was it in gear?
Did she do anything different that day compared to how she normally does things when she visits that location?
If so, what caused her to do things differently?
What did she do differently?
How long was she away from the car?
How long after she saw the car was missing did she call 999 (911)
Where did she look?
Did she call out?
What did she tell the first responders?
What did she tell the operator?

Can she explain her FB posts?
Can he explain his FB posts?

Hey Jude said...

Willow - he wrote it on his Facebook - it is buried deep in the comments, he did not make a separate post to share that information. I copied and pasted his comment from his Facebook.



Hey Jude said...

Tania, that was only one of several posts or comments she made about the car stolen with the baby inside as the drama unfolded - I saw the post and comments at the time but I don't remember the detail of what she said - I think there was one which mentioned the car model and colour though it may have been a friend or relative who added that comment - I wish I had taken a screenshot. I remember thinking the info she gave would not help the general public to find the baby - it seemed she was most likely initially facebooking for people in her local area, who knew her and her car, to look out for it. At the point I clicked off the conversation she had been asked by some posters if she had contacted the police, and she was urged to call them - she had not responded to those comments at that time. I should have stayed on the page - I thought it was likely a domestic type incident and the baby's father or a relative had taken off with the baby in the car. There was no reason to think that - it just seemed unlikely to me a stranger would have done that.

tania cadogan said...

I can't find the post about her car being stolen on her FB page, perhaps she has deleted it.
Jet does the same thing, luckily posts are being screen captured so we can see the strangeness of them.

Hey Jude said...

That post must have been shared a few times before it appeared in my timeline as that is not local to me. I didn't recognise any of the names in the comments, so I think the post must have been widely shared within a quite short space of time. Maybe someone thought to take a screenshot and it might be shared yet.

---
Where was Jet Moore? Not looking in the river, it seems. Why did it appear his post was written to give the impression he was there. Why does he not mention himself, or Kim directly, except in the "so we thought she and the car were taken". What does it mean that no driver was found at the scene? It's not clear who was where, except latterly, the poor baby.

If he wasn't there, how is 'I and we' going to tell the world what happened?

"And as soon as it is the right time to tell the world how our amazing little girls went I and we will". - Jet Moore

There's no time like the present, though I thought how Kiara went was already public knowledge?

----

Is
"It was the lemons stacked up too high!"
More like
"That's the way the cookie crumbles!"
Or
"It was the straw which broke the camel's back!"

?

I think that is an incorrect question, and that it is just whatever it is - but what is it?

He does appear to be blaming the lemons - but if it was an accident, why blame the lemons - what have lemons to do with anything? He opens with the lemons, goes onto a broken bank card, money from the drawer, no car, no signs, a shared thought that 'she and the car' had been taken, and that 'a while later' the police found the CAR. Then he says they went beyond the call of duty to jump in and pull the baby out. Why would he say that?


---
Habundia, yes, I think he said it in the order he wants people to believe happened but the bank card might have been broken any time previous to when whoever "they" are or were went to the office to get money from the drawer. I forget -we should believe what someone tells us. Mostly he tells us, through the lack of names and pronouns, that he is not willing to tell us who was where, or when - he tells us that a why is about a bank card and money. And, strangely, that " It was the lemons stacked up too far!" And that "when the time is right", he and they will tell the world how Kiara went - which statement can only cause readers to wonder if the parents know more than that which has been reported; that two year old Kiara Moore drowned inside her mother's car when it rolled down the slipway and into the river Teifi while her mother had gone into the office. That Kiara was retrieved from the river by police officers, and that much effort was made to resuscitate her, but tragically, she had died and could not be brought back.

Hey Jude said...

I think it's macabre to have a birthday funeral party with (maybe) bouncy castles and balloons - Perhaps Pennywise will put in an appearance.

Hey Jude said...

It's not really macabre, as they are doing something which Kiara herself would have liked and enjoyed - it just seems odd to people who might be more considering the mental health of the children who might be taken along to the funeral Birthday party. Open invitation. If you can make it ace - if not no worries.

I kind of want to slap him with a lemon.

Hey Jude said...

Yes, it was deleted - it was gone by the time the article was posted here. It is all very strange.

Kimberly Bow said...

Neither of these parents are displaying raw, true grief. It chills me. All is not right. Another Susan Smith? No parent in their right mind reacts like this to the death of a beloved baby.

Kimberly Bow said...

Did this little girl have a life insurance policy on her? These parents are hiding something imo. They are very casual in posting about their child’s DEATH. The rest of us would be lying on the floor in a useless heap.

Kimberly Bow said...

When is the last time this poor child was seen ALIVE by a third party?

Willow said...

The picture of the river Tefi in the Guardian, Mar 21:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/21/kiara-moore-death-car-that-rolled-into-welsh-river-was-not-stolen

The water seems shallow. It says the picture is from "near the scene from where two-year-old Kiara Moore was recovered from a car that had plunged into the river".

Habundia Awareness said...

https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.0819362,-4.6589127,3a,60y,92.62h,77.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7-EaqNNuOrU0O11UDRhwAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (google maps view of the slope, shot 2015)

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/girl-river-car-kiara-stolen-14444762
Someone laying flowers at the scene.

This absolutely screams for testings!!!
Would a car float off to a distance on such shallow water? And if, how long would it take from rolling into the water untill it was under water that 'no signs' are seen a car went into the water? And how far off would the car have floated? Is this consistent with the way the car was found?
How long would it take to go from the car to the desk, take the money needed and turn back to the car? I bet it wouldn't take longer as 5 min and that would be a wide guess, it would probably be less than that.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kiara-moore-2-dies-after-car-plunges-into-river-teifi_uk_5ab0d308e4b0e862383b058b

"The force said it received a call about a missing vehicle at 3.30pm and posted on its Twitter page that the Mini had been located at 5.11pm."

"Noel Lewis, who owns the Pioneer Garage close to the river, said he knew Moore and would see him as well as Kiara and her mother.

He said he often saw a silver Mini parked on the slipway but he was not there on Monday so did not know if it was there then.

Of the slipway, he said: “It’s concrete, about four or five foot, going down into the river bed, which is quite deep, so if the Mini rolled back then the poor little girl didn’t stand a chance.”"

https://www.dyfed-powys.police.uk/en/newsroom/press-releases/death-of-kiara-moore-river-teifi-cardigan-19th-march-2018/


Alex said...

FWIW; I sat in my Pick-up with the door closed and started my stopwatch. I got out, walked the 45 feet to my porch, changed from my shoes into my slippers. I then went into my house and sat at my desk. I opened the drawer and searched until I found some batteries.(cash) I then went outside to a point where I could see my parked P/U. Time elapsed. 01:14

Alex

trustmeigetit said...

She parked her car with her baby inside on a boat ramp.

The pics make his clear. She don’t park the car on a road.

I would only park my car on a ramp if I was loading boat.

I am curios of a couple things

Will the child have water in her lungs...

Will that be clear water or river water... Possible drowning elsewhere and the river was a coverup.



Willow said...



The police is giving a definite, quite a long period of time estimating when the Mini moved to the river.
It's in one of the police's postings in your last link (thx @Habundia). Here:

https://www.dyfed-powys.police.uk/en/newsroom/press-releases/death-of-kiara-moore-river-teifi-cardigan-19th-march-2018/

The police says:
"We're investigating the circumstances surrounding this tragic incident and appeal for witnesses who may have seen the silver Mini enter the river between 3:30pm and 4:50pm on the afternoon of Monday, 19th March to call us on 101, quoting..."

Has Kim perhaps been away from the car all this period of time, one hour an 20 minutes?
The length of the time frame is sensitive.

Hey Jude said...

Kimberley - no, in the UK a child's life is not an 'insurable interest'. There are Critical Illness Insurance policies, which can be bought as additional cover to a parent's life insurance and which would cover expenses relating to the care of the child.

Mike Dammann said...

"I will have to live with the guilt for the rest of my life! "
implies punishment. It also implies more than enough punishment. It is a statement targeting law officials and the public indicating the death of the child is punishment enough and more punishment not being needed.

Hey Jude said...

Was a silver mini maybe seen on cctv in the town between 3.30 and 4.50, possibly widening the time during which it may have gone into the river, and the location at which it went in?
Were either or both parents not available to be met with by police until after 4.50? Jet said he was working over an hour away.
What is meant by no driver was found at the scene? Is it that no driver was found in the submerged car, or that the person who had been driving the car was not at the scene from which the car was reported stolen, and to which the police responded?
What was the scene? Were the police called to the slipway? Did Kim stay on the slipway, or did she call 999 from a different location? Which is to presume she made the call - it hasn't been said who made the 999 call. Jet Moore, in saying 'how', didn't actually say who had been driving the car, who broke the card, went into the office, or who looked in the river - the reader assumes he means Kim, but he doesn't name her.
I wonder if a theory was that the car had been stolen and was dumped into the river at a different location some time later, with the baby still inside, as it was found quite a distance downstream. Would the car have gone that far downstream from the slipway? I wonder if they will do a rerun to test that.

Willow said...

@Mike Damman, I agree, no more punishment should be needed.

For what it's worth, according to my very subjective understanding that is based on extremely limited knowlege of SA, I dare say that I very much doubt there will be any criminal sanctions for the mother concerning the death of her deceased baby daughter.

On the basis of the material I've seen about the case so far, there is no clear account available of what happened on Monday 19.3., or earlier, to baby Kiara Moore.

Nobody is to blame for anything criminal or punishable. Investigations are ongoing.

The language of the mother conveys truthfulness and the material I've seen, according to my limited skills, does not link her to anything criminal towards her baby daughter.

Habundia Awareness said...

https://ufile.io/da4d8
Did she report the car stolen from a different location?

If the timeframe in which the police is searching for how long would she have been at that 'office' that police needs witnesses for that broad timeline?

I was scrolling through comments on his fb and saw one message of him saying:
[quote]"One point that has been badly reported ! Is I was working over an hour away and frantically tried to arrange a search lead by every one I could think of"

Isn't it that his message on fb (later deleted) has been the source of information used to establish an idea on what has happened? Wasn't he himself not the one who 'badly reported' that he was 'working over an hour away'?

Would it be the 'normal' for police if an 'accident' takes place, an 'investigation around the circumstance' is done?
At my country if something seems like an accident they treat it as an accident, only if there are circumstance that would raise questions on the circumstances, an 'investigation' will be held. And if they do that, you can be sure there is something 'not right', otherwise they wouldn't even spent the time on it. Would that be the same for UK? Or would it be normal to investigate circumstances (especially a child's death) 'no mather what'?

I just CANT get around the fact that one parks a car (without a boat to unload) on a slope.....especially with your child in it!!! A neighbor owner said it was something she did often. After seeing the environment of the scene there could be other places (safer) to park a car at.

Willow said...

@Hey Jude, exactly.
The storyline is hanging up in the air, swaying in the wind.
Detail by detail the recount is crumbling to pieces.

Willow said...

@Habundia. I may have got it wrong, but the neighbor said he saw the mother park in an upper place often, never in the sloping passage next to riverbank where the silver mini is said to have been parked Mon 19.

Incidentally, this neighbor happened to be precisely Monday, 19. somewhere else (said some media-link). Had he been there in the neighborhood as usual, he might have been an eye-witness.
This detail is similar with Black-case. The man who owned the runaway car happened be away from home that day the car killed Pearl Black.

I've been thinking of the cctv-cameras that are covering the better part of Europe and UK nowadays.

Habundia Awareness said...

"The language of the mother conveys truthfulness and the material I've seen, according to my limited skills, does not link her to anything criminal towards her baby daughter."

Negligence by putting your child 'at risk' is considered criminal by law in UK.

"Police are now reportedly preparing to quiz the 25-year-old over the tragedy and she could face prosecution if lawyers decide she placed little Kiara “at risk” by leaving her alone close to the steep slope.

Although leaving a child alone isn’t against the law, it is an offence to leave them by themselves if it’s “likely to lead to injury or suffering”."


Habundia Awareness said...

@ Willow
"Noel Lewis, who owns the Pioneer Garage close to the river, said he knew Moore and would see him as well as Kiara and her mother.

He said he often saw a silver Mini parked on the slipway but he was not there on Monday so did not know if it was there then."

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kiara-moore-2-dies-after-car-plunges-into-river-teifi_uk_5ab0d308e4b0e862383b058b

I think he's meaning the slope....but it could be he means something else with 'slipway'

Anonymous said...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/kiara-moores-dad-name-tattooed-14456144.amp

The father has had Kiara's name tattooed on his arm.

Hey Jude said...

Habundia - I found this, which will help answer your questions.

----

1.1 The investigation of the death of a child is an extremely complex area of police work; and is also very demanding for investigators in terms of emotional pressure. Children are not meant to die, and the police investigation into the sudden death of a child must be influenced by this basic fact. This means that even when there are no apparent suspicious factors, the police contribution to the investigation must be detailed and thorough.

The full document is here:

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/ACPO-guide-to-investigating-child-deaths-2014.doc

---

It is a government document produced for the guidance of the police forces of England and Wales - it is also in the public domain through the FIA.

Hey Jude said...

Anon - he can't see that tattoo without the use of two mirrors.

Lucia D said...

Negligence resulting in death is still criminal. Leaving a toddler alone in a parked car long enough for it to roll into the water, and fully submerge fits the bill.

Hey Jude said...

Of what was Jet Moore trying frantically to organise a search - of the roads, of the river, or both? I wonder who he contacted and what he said to them. I wonder if his efforts were helpful to the search. Did he not think the police would already be co-ordinating the search efforts? Does he mean he knows local police officers and that he was trying to organise the police search, or that he knew and asked people in the coastguard, or that he asked friends locally who have motor boats to check the river near the slipway - does he mean that he also stopped to make posts on social media, or that he instructed Kim to do that? Were the police called immediately or only after he tried frantically to organise a search? His vagueness invites the Inquisition.

tania cadogan said...

Here is the picture of his tattoo

https://i2-prod.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article14456148.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/KIara-dad-tattoo-collage.png

It was on his fb but he seems to have deleted it again, he posts and then deletes quite often, why?

They are in a relationship but do not appear married.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10159839997010571&set=pb.728660570.-2207520000.1522023430.&type=3&theater

This picture seems to be a family pic, Kim has a son and it would appear the other kids are his.
No mention seems to be made of these children so whhere do they stay?
if with other relatives, why?

https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif

On FB he thanked the tattooist and the shop and posted 3 pictures of his tattoo with mentions of who was part of the team kim-jake and two others along with a sea turtle.

The post with the tattoos and the comment about it have been deleted

Willow said...

@Habundia.

About the detail of how the silver Mini was parked 19. Mar (in the boat ramp?) so that the car is said to have been able to roll into the river by itself.

Huff Post link says:

"Noel Lewis, who owns the Pioneer Garage close to the river, said he knew Moore and would see him as well as Kiara and her mother.

He said he often saw a silver Mini parked on the slipway but he was not there on Monday so did not know if it was there then."

The news doesn't say whether if it was the father Jet or the mother Kim who habitually parked the silver Mini in the narrow boat ramp leading to water.
Nor do we know reliably if it was Kim who parked the car there precisely on Mon 19.
We are given the impression it might have been her.

(Kim distances herself consistently, in her language, from hands-on explanation of how the occurrence happened. And Jet's promise of explanation he doesn't keep.)
I wonder where the media is getting the info they are publishing in unison.

We are not told anywhere that the silver Mini would have be driven by the mother Kim exclusively.

It would be a practical assumption that they both drove the Mini.

Anonymous said...

I'm not British - is it normal to call a three year old toddler "a young girl?

Scarlett said...

Eight days after she killed her two sons, Darlie Routier celebrated her dead son's 7'th birthday, on his grave, complete with balloons and sillystring.

I have no doubt that Kiara's parents are involved in her death, and I thought so even before the car was located. A car thief sounded implausible.

Hey Jude said...

Well, you will more likely hear 'little girl' and 'little boy' of three year olds - also of children of infant and junior school age.

Scarlett said...

Madeleine McCann would have turned four, just days after she was killed.

Hey Jude said...

It was so unlikely the car had been stolen -surely, just as urgent a concern to express would have been that the baby might have gone into the river. It was apparently a passing woman who looked into the river and saw no signs - she said Kim then ran off. I've lost the link.

Habundia Awareness said...

@scarlett........that was the person i was thinking of who celebrated her son's birthday on his grave.....couldn't come up with the name.....i would see in my head a lot of people with balloons and stuff went looking online but couldn't find it.

It seems we need to screen shot every post he makes........why would you delete a picture of a tribute to your child? What happened in that post that made him choose to delete it?

"She always wanted to be called RAR RAR which was our Knick Name for her"

If she was called RAR RAR.......why did he tattoo RA RA on his arm?
Also in other writings I saw RAA as her 'knick name'

Habundia Awareness said...

It was apparently a passing woman who looked into the river and saw no signs - she said Kim then ran off. I've lost the link.

Was this on facebook? Or in other media?

Mizzmarple said...

Ah ... George and Cindy Anthony got tattoos of Caylee's name.

Who else ? There are more and I will have do some google searches later

Habundia Awareness said...

@Hey Jude.......thanks for the link about child deaths investigations.

In a Facebook post she wrote: "Sadly yesterday my beautiful baby girl passed away! Due to my own stupidity, I will have to live with the guilt for the rest of my life!

"Mummy loves you baby girl and I'm so sorry!"

I'am so sorry!

I think it's strange when strangers who don't know the people claim those people are 'wonderful parents' or 'amazing parents' and say they 'didn't do anything wrong'

How the hell would you know if strangers are wonderful parents? How can you even asume people are being 'amezing' parents if you NEVER MET them and if you never experienced them in daily life?

My experience in life is that people do awfull things to their kids when NOBODY is looking, when they are home alone with them bad things happen and stress takes over their handlings, while being in public they act as if they are the most wonderful parents you ever met........people are awfull as it comes to being in private! That's why i think 'privacy' is overrated and has caused thousands of children end up death and millions traumatized and abused and yet when you stop asuming parents are 'wonderful' or 'amazing' you are considered the 'bad one'..........I rather be wrong in finding out the person is a 'wonderful' parent......than the other way around.
Children suffer enough at the hands of adults (parents).....they don't need strangers to make it worse!

When a child dies under circumstances that are not clearly accidental I think it's the RIGHT of the child that at least suspicion would be raised and is appropiated for the situation.
All those people saying 'respect the parents' when people raising suspicion.........what about respect for the child!? Who's defanding the child (accept for police) who isn't able to tell what happened?
History has taught us that children always have been used and abused for thousands of years......even the bible shows child abuse done by adults in name of God and Jesus.......so I am sorry if some adult's feelings are being hurt by suspicion, they can take care of themselves............children can't!

Anonymous said...

Lucas Hernandez's bio mother got a tattoo saying "missing you always Lucas" just shortly after Lucas disappeared.

Anonymous said...

The tattoo Jamie Orr received actually is “Lucas Allen, miss you always.”

Mizzmarple said...

Ah... Deborah Bradley got a tattoo for Baby Lisa Irwin

Hey Jude said...

I found a story which includes the person who spoke to Kimberley - it may not be the exact same one, as I am pretty sure the version I read included that she was a neighbour, and that her little boy had said, "look mummy, that lady is crying" :

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20180321/281599536034470


Ola Kowlaow, 28, described the heartbreaking moment she saw Miss Rowlands in tears frantically looking for her car. She said: ‘I asked her what happened and she said: “Somebody has kidnapped my kid. My daughter is in the car.” I checked the water but I didn’t see anything and she just ran.’

---

The reaction of the person was to first look in the water. She says she asked, "What happened?" Did Kim believe somebody had kidnapped her kid?

Hey Jude said...

Ola Kowlaow was passing by the scene when she said she saw a woman in distress.
"My son say 'mommy she's crying'," she said, adding she had asked what had happened.
"[The woman] said 'someone's kidnapped my kids [sic], my daughter in the car."
Ms Kowlaow said she had checked but had seen nothing, before the woman had "just run".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-43468076

Anonymous said...

From the mother's (Kim's) FB posts, it looks like she is much more into the relationship than Jet (the father) is. He is 15 years older than her, so there could be an element of control here. Particularly where bringing in the family income is concerned. I think if Jet is the culprit, and Kim knows it, she might well still stick by him and say she is the guilty one, not only for 'love', but because he is so much older than her, possibly very controlling, and the person who is bringing in the family income (including support for her son by a previous relationship).

I think she might well confess guilt in order to 'take the rap' for him, Not only for the reasons listed above, but because the police would be far less likely to bring 'endangerement to a child' charges against a 25-year-old mum, than a 40-year-old father.

Habundia Awareness said...

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2011/0614/Casey-Anthony-murder-trial-What-did-her-Bella-Vita-tattoo-mean
Not only cindy and anthony got a tattoo it seems

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2225765/murder-suspect-had-date-of-his-alleged-victims-death-tattooed-on-his-arm-with-macabre-message/
People are capable of doing the weirdest things......human monsters don't look like frankenstein they look human! Looks can be deceitful!

Hey Jude said...

Well, he certainly wanted to control the sketchy narrative in his "It was the lemon's stacked up too far!" post - and he - "I and we" are going to tell the world how Kiara went whe the time is right - though he later says he was working over an hour away, so what could he know to tell when the time is right? He doesn't actually say he wasn't there - the deleted lemons post sought to give the impression he was there in saying, "so we thought she and the car had been taken".

Alex said...

Billie Jean Dunn had a tattoo of Hayley.

Alex

Unknown said...

the car (plus child) not stolen, not kidnapped but "taken". as in "taken" by the river.leakage.

Hey Jude said...

Well, I can't find one which says "neighbour", or that the little boy said "Look, mummy, that lady is crying." - but then "mommy" is American so I wonder if really he said that either. The mother's name looks to be Polish, so it could be that she has learnt American English , and her son has learned "Mommy by turn rather than, "Mummy" or ""Mammy". Maybe I corrected the little boy in my mind in to say "lady" rather than "she". My memory is not as reliable as I like to think it is. :-/

Les Lindsey said...

On my first reading of Jet's statement I was struck by his obvious and cold lack of sorrow over the death of his daughter-nothing like "This is a living nightmare; I can't believe she's gone"-rather in his first sentence, frequently one of the most important, he states "Just to let every one who keeps asking how know". His first apparent priority is making sure the public knows how his daughter died, followed up with "It was the lemons stacked up too far!" What? He doesn't use the PPI and he gives unnecessary information about the police efforts. In summation: bizarre and a clear effort to convince, in my opinion,

John mcgowan said...

From the brief FB post's i've read, from both parents, in my limited knowledge of SA, i don't see any "guilty knowledge" in their language (upto now) to suggest they are covering up involvement in their babys death.

I see guilt, distancing language, tangents in abundence, and so on.
Expected in both, involvement or not.

I do believe they are hiding something. (finance and or infidelity)

What does concern me is, within their regret *my words. Self preservation, and face, seems to be forefront.

Skeletons will open the closet and reveal themselves when the need to convince takes presidence over infinite protection.


Willow said...

On 24. Mar in Wales online the place of the parked Mini and the death place are a slightly different from earlier.

According to the Coroner's Office the Mini was parked near the slipway leading to the river, not on the slipway as many of us have understood.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/river-two-year-old-slipway-14439915

Hey Jude said...

This post is from the comments on Jet Moore's FB:

FB poster: in actual fact the car was not parked on a steep slope. You would have to see the place to understand how it happened. the car was parked on the only parking space outside their hut which is more or less flat, with the very slightest incline. people have always parked there. there is a garage next door and as a client of that garage I have parked in that very place. It really is always wise to know your facts and not trust the picture that you build up in your imagination. If it had been on the steep slope and the handbrake had been off it would have started rolling whilst the mum was in the car.

Also, just for the record, the door to the hut is right beside the parking place, she would only have had to nip in for a minute and would never have been more than a few yards away from the car. I know loads of parents who would, rightly or wrongly, think it ok to just leave a child unattended for a couple of minutes.

It really is better if you don't judge though, because it isn't helpful to anyone and it is extremely unkind in these circumstances and very likely to tip these poor people over the edge. it's better to just keep these sorts of comments to yourself. Think it if you have to, but don't say it on the page of a person who is, at this time, utterly broken.

Willow said...

@Anonymous, March 26, 2018 at 3:35 PM. Yes, this is how I see it, too, Anon.
In the Fb-posts of Kim there's disillusionment.

A man's older age doesn't necessarily bring the upper hand in relationships today. It's rather the financial plight families are plagued with everywhere.

Financial dependency is a great risk in relationships. Control may shift towards coercion insidiously and become a new normal between the partners.

Anonymous said...

Blogger Hey Jude said...
This post is from the comments on Jet Moore's FB:

It really is always wise to know your facts and not trust the picture that you build up in your imagination. If it had been on the steep slope and the handbrake had been off it would have started rolling whilst the mum was in the car.

(Does this not make the fact the car went into the river appear less likely?)

Also, just for the record, the door to the hut is right beside the parking place, she would only have had to nip in for a minute and would never have been more than a few yards away from the car. I know loads of parents who would, rightly or wrongly, think it ok to just leave a child unattended for a couple of minutes.

(We don't know how long Kiara was in the car for on her own, no one says this which makes this even more of a red flag)

Allegedly according to the above Facebook post, the car was parked safely right next to the door which would have only taken a minute to get into the building a few yards away from the car. I'm surprised the blogger can't see for themselves the significance of what they are saying themselves in relation to peoples doubts. I agree it's better people make informed comments but the above causes more questions than answer them.

Anonymous said...

For "blogger" I mean "Facebook Poster"

Anonymous said...

Blogger Hey Jude said...
This post is from the comments on Jet Moore's FB:

FB poster: in actual fact the car was not parked on a steep slope. You would have to see the place to understand how it happened. the car was parked on the only parking space outside their hut which is more or less flat, with the very slightest incline. people have always parked there. there is a garage next door and as a client of that garage I have parked in that very place.

How what happened? No one has said what exactly happened other than the car ended up in the river. "more or less" flat? "the very slightest" incline? If people have always parked there, does this not magnify the current situation?

Anonymous said...

Many vicious slanderous lying lies from the Internet lynch mob have been swirling the drain regarding the tragic tragedy at Smith's Wine and Spirits. For those of you wondering about any role I might have played, this in MY TRUTH!!!! I totally oppose drunk driving and strongly support efforting to remove from society. I do not recall this person, Mr Smith, from my childhood. Constantly abused by Parents, Teachers, Organizations, Aliens, and Dear Old Dad. Remember the smell of liquor on his breath. Jim Beam. Black and blue bottle sat on oak coffee table with 13 cigarette burns. Smelly leather couch poking springs. Watched Seinfeld. I do not recall this person and categorically never caused harm! Could never hurt anyone!!
To tell you the truth, going to buy lemons to make lemonade. Card broke down. In front of Smith's and so. Went in to get money from drawer. And so The Gun just went off!!!!! :) :) ;) Can't remember blacked out so absolutely not under the influence.
Smith loved adventure so friends called him Rar Rar. Revved motorbike or 4by. Party to celebrate Smith's life tuesday!!!!! Bring donations to Smith Adventure Memorial in lieu of admissions. Feel guilty rest of life. :) ;) totally responsible for tragedy..... :) :0
To,tellmyounthe truth more children canbe saved from sex abuse all worthwhile getter story out.judge jury executioners slandering gossip to be perfectly honest! Weinstein! Cosby Lauer Dad Smith hugs and kissed

Anonymous said...

For those who misunderstood my truth, let me be perfectly clear. I am not a crook. Should have said CAME in to get CASH from drawer behind counter with Jim Beam on shelves. I trust this will cleave up any confusion.

Habundia Awareness said...

"Also, just for the record, the door to the hut is right beside the parking place, she would only have had to nip in for a minute and would never have been more than a few yards away from the car. I know loads of parents who would, rightly or wrongly, think it ok to just leave a child unattended for a couple of minutes."

https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.0819362,-4.6589127,3a,75y,98.71h,82.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7-EaqNNuOrU0O11UDRhwAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-two-year-old-who-14444297

So.......where exactly does that 'door' exist?
The only 'door' to the place are the big blue ones and those lay exactly on the slope.
(""the very slightest" incline")
On the grey doors it says NO PARKING....yet the vid show's people do park there. There isn't any other door, so how can a car be parked on the flat part of the road leading to the slope (it had to be on that part of the road, otherwise it wouldn't have ended up in the river) and claiming it was right next to the door.........explain to me where that car would have been standing right next to the 'hut'?

I don't think media always tell the right story, there are many cases in which media told things happened in a certain way, while during investigation it was determined things weren't exatcly what the media told.

I don't think there was any intention.....but then again, stranger things have happened in this world.....something is just OFF.....that's why the blog got so many responses. If it had been clear and sound these parents were grieving for the lost of their child in a tragic accident, there wouldn't have been so much response.

All that said.....i read somewhere the car had no normal handbrake but some kind of button (never saw that on a car, i only know the normal handbrakes, the handle you pull)....it has yet to be determined if something was wrong with it.

The FB post that has gone around the world, while Jet himself has deleted it from his FB page, it are those words and his action that has raised many questions.

Like saying his little girl asking to be called RAR RAR
Take a tattoo that reads...RA RA.....
At my country we would say 'RaRa' as in guess what this is.
Like him talking in such way : 'we thought' as if he was present, which later is found out (because he tells it on his fb as a response in one of his posts) that he was 'working over an hour away'
These are things that seem odd and that's why there are so many questions.


Lucia D said...

I can't get over the stacked up lemons. Comparing your daughter's (preventable) drowning to a stroke of bad luck is so minimizing as to boggle the mind. And he certainly was quick to forgive his girlfriend for her part in his child's death!

Hey Jude said...

Someone in the FB comments wrote that if they hadn't lstacked the car up with lemons it might not have rolled down the slipway.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that the police are calling this a 'tragic incident' rather than a 'tragic accident'.

Potato palace said...

No, no no no. Momma is uber glib. "Sadly, I ran out of milk last night, but it is okay because I know I was stupid. Let's all move forward with the stages now because writing this FB post is making me uncomfortable."

"Hi, it was rhe lemins! We racked them up too high on the stick shift, as you do, and BAM, dead kid. But heh heh nit my kid. Im just the boyfrend. Antwayz, dont feel too bad fir us. That kidoo really LIVED!!! And man it was so so extra of the cops to do their jobs, like that, about out to those first responders [FB page link to 5 star review inserted here]. All really sad but will get thru it, with your help. I'm attaching some specious I mean precious pics of me letting the kid ride on my shoulders. Hey, I didn't use her name here, bc we want to use her Knick Name. Yeah. Thanks!!!

Anonymous said...

"Just to let every one who keeps asking how know
It was the lemons stacked up too far!"

From his introduction we see the likely reason for him writing the post. The "lemons" comment at best is an unexpected one and we can only speculate as to what he means by this. What is his definition of "lemons" in his language, what do they mean to him? Could he mean that he's writing in response to "every one who keeps asking" and that "the lemons stacked up too far" could be the number of posts from people either wanting to know or expressing doubt over the events that happened and due to the sheer volume, he feels compelled to respond?

His answer is a non answer. Until we know for sure, we can only speculate in the form of questions and look to understand what he might mean.

Hey Jude said...

Whatever he means, it's inappropriate in the circumstances - "just let everyone know"...."It was the lemons stacked up too far!"

No media coverage of Kiara's funeral - unusual given the publicity.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, just like Davy Blackburn is guilty of murder, according to statement analysis.

Only problem is, he isn’t, and of course, that discussion has been mysteriously discontinued.....after the big SA fail.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the funeral didn't take place. The Fathers Facebook posts said it was going to be yesterday but that seemed a little premature given the circumstances and timing. How would they know the coroner would likely release Kiara's body so soon? Were they being hopeful, were they likely advised to go ahead and plan the funeral on her third birthday or were they using it to their advantage?

Maybe the funeral did take place yesterday and there was no media coverage. The latter would be unexpected.

Mizzmarple said...

Are there any FB posts of the funeral IF it was held yesterday ?

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Both parents have posted on FB about yesterday's birthday celebration for Kiara, and the mum commented about saying goodbye to the little girl. Word 'funeral' is not used.

Anonymous said...

Is it posssible for someone to post here what the parents said on Facebook yesterday please?

Lucia D said...

Oh no! Have to admit that made me laugh tho.

Anonymous said...

Comments from the parents on Facebook yesterday (both include a range of emojis which won’t show here):

JET MOORE Thank you all so much for your support today. I have never seen so many people come to celebrate a 3 year olds life and support us as family and team. To have so many people show support is amazing. Rar Rar , kim and I are so greatfull.
So proud of kim my other girls and kiara brother. Grandads and so on for the last week how they have managed.
Jet

KIM ROWLANDS Wishing our beautiful baby girl a Happy 3rd Birthday!
Today was one of the hardest day of our lives, saying Goodbye to our sweet girl. The turn out was amazing and We thank each and everyone of you who came, messaged and sent cards of kind thoughts and support for our princess!! Her spirit will live on in our hearts forever more

Lucia D said...

These parents continue to amaze. Jet is "so proud" of mommy after her negligence resulted in their toddler's death? And he speaks for Kiara, , saying she is "so grateful". Hmmm, I doubt it Daddy. And as for mommy to my ear it sounds ludicrous to wish a recently killed child to have "a happy birthday"! They both lack a gravitas I would expect from recently bereaved parents.

Buckley said...

Lucia- Contempt for them will only cloud your search for truth. I say this out of respect because you seem really sharp- stay focused on truth vs deception and don't get sucked into belittling them just because you can; there's no shortage of people who can do that.

Lucia D said...

Buckley, I will take your advice in the spirit it is given. Thank you. It is easy to get off track.

Anonymous said...

There is press coverage of Kiara's funeral on: walesonline.co.uk

Nic said...

"Rar Rar" does not have a name.

The word, "just" starts the statement (intent). Alterior motive? Assign blame: lemons' fault. In this case "just" responds to the unsaid "because" making the reason sensitive.

"They" got in car? Did mom not secure Kiara before getting into car?

Went back but no car (no mention of Kiara). No signs (of what?)

"So we thought she and the car had been taken.

So = Blue highlight/what follows is very sensitive.

We thought (was he there?). Thinking (thought) is not fully committed to the statement.
"she" and car are separate entities. "She" and "car" are separate but of equal importance. Expected would be that Kiara was missing (the car stolen with her in it).

"had been taken" more distancing.

...

No wonder this statement was deleted from social media.

Habundia said...

"The turn out" ≠ funeral

Who calls the funeral of a 2 year old "the turn out"?

Not once Kiara gets mentioned by name, its only 'nick names'. Also other kids are not called by their names and

Like Lucy said......amazed by their lack of emotionele

"my other girls and kiara brother"
Kiara is only mentioned in context of 'her brother'
Aren't his "other girls" not as much kiara's sister, as 'kiara brother' is?

Nic said...


tania cadogan said...
"Kiara was 100000000% innocent

Something can only be 100%

If there can be 100000000% how high does his version of percentages climb?


Right. Excellent point. So do we interpret this as disparagement?

Nic said...

trustmeigetit said...
She parked her car with her baby inside on a boat ramp.
[...]
I would only park my car on a ramp if I was loading boat.


Exactly. [Your] not allowed to park on a boat ramp. [They're] very particular, too, about where you park at a public boat launch.


[...]
Will the child have water in her lungs...

Will that be clear water or river water... Possible drowning elsewhere and the river was a coverup.


This idea entered my mind, as well. The autopsy would reveal this. That the father said police went "beyond the call of duty". There is no limit to what can be done when it comes to saving the life of your daughter/son, unless you know that there is nothing [more] that can be done.

jmo

Nic said...

I have a thought about funeral versus birthday party.

IMO, funerals are for the living/the survivors. It's an opportunity for people to pay their espect to the deceased's surviving loved ones. Today, many refer to funerals as a ' celebration of life' but the gathering and activities associated with the "celebration" remain the same. It's a time of grief and mourning.

Birthday parties mark a milestone and they are celebratory. It's typically 'thrown' for the person celebrating that milestone.

Choosing to have a birthday party instead of a funeral/celebration of life and to request donations for their "pet project" in lieu of is, in my book, "weirdly".

Hey Jude said...

He maybe does not want to publish the names of the other children in a public post or have them become a focus of anyone's attention as there are some pretty vitriolic comments on his posts, some deleted.

It does look in that post as if he does not view the two sets of siblings to all be siblings to each other - the little boy is Kiara's brother - none are called daughter or son or step-son in his post. Extended family, excepting Grandads are merely 'and so on'. That post is not the full picture, however, as earlier he posted a drawing which he described as a picture of Kiara which had been drawn by her eldest sister, so he does acknowledge them there as siblings - he is acknowledging that his other girls regard Kiara as their sister, in his later post, he is possibly not so comfortable with that understanding for himself. I think it is not much to go on, you would need to know more of how he speaks of them all to gain a better picture of the family dynamic. It may be that one or more of the other parents of all the children influence his choice of words in describing relationships, and that they, and /or Jet, have not rushed into the creation of a 'blended family' as Jet and Kim are not married.

In the drawing post, he does not include the name of Kiara's sister - I believe it likely, as he names and writes proudly of his older daughters in older posts, that he does not name them now to avoid giving opportunity for their names to be taken in vain by any of the less 'supportive' people who leave comments on his page. I think it's extraordinary that some people have found it acceptable to post abuse, and to argue abusively amongst themselves, on his page - social media is a strange animal. Anyone would want to keep their kids' names out of all that.

Excepting the one where he posts the drawing, the tone of his posts reads to me of a general under respect towards others, and as some posters have already said, a strange lack of gravitas.

I find the lack of any sense of shock in his posts, and the insistence on 'fun' and 'celebration' to be strange, particularly given the reported sudden and shocking circumstances of Kiara's death. It is said that many people do not know how to respond healthily to death these days, that they seek to avoid the reality through untimely celebrations of life, which is effectively to discourage and suppress the natural need to mourn and grieve that the person's life is over. Reality says that you cannot throw a birthday party for someone who is dead - they are no longer within time, they are not there, and they are not a day older than they were when they died. "If it makes them feel better to do something Kiara would have enjoyed" - I'm not sure really it could.

I would not have a bouncy castle, maybe some time later, maybe next year -but on that day I would ask everyone, before or after the funeral ceremony, to go to the river and throw flowers into the water from which Kiara's body was recovered, and have some minutes silence there, thinking about Kiara and reflecting on how she died - because the fact of how she died would be the reality, and uppermost in my mind, and in the minds of everyone who knew and loved Kiara and so were most likely to be there. To gather there would give opportunity for family and friends to express unashamed sorrow over her death, which would be healthier than 'celebrating' with the enforced jollity of a birthday party for a baby who could not be there because she was dead..

I know - I'm being judgy. We are all different. There is no handbook for how anyone should grieve...etc.

Hey Jude said...


Nic at 10.50 said:

'This idea entered my mind, as well. The autopsy would reveal this. That the father said police went "beyond the call of duty". There is no limit to what can be done when it comes to saving the life of your daughter/son, unless you know that there is nothing [more] that can be done.'


Nic - you have put your finger on what was bothering me about "beyond the call of duty". I knew there was something amiss in his saying that, but not what made it amiss. I hope you are wrong, but what you say sounds right. It makes sense of why he would say that.

Hey Jude said...

If I was one of the police officers who jumped in the river, or any police officer, I would not take it well that the father of the child believed and said that I, or the officers who jumped in, had gone 'beyond the call of duty' in their attempt to save my daughter. I'd think what does he consider our idea of duty to be? - to stand on the riverbank saying something like, "there doesn't look to be much point, she might be dead already, the water's deep and freezing cold - it's only five minutes till the end of my shift, and I don't want to spoil my uniform...".

Hey Jude said...

Incredible, but not so incredible if Jet knew Kiara had been submerged in the water for over two hours and believed she was dead. Even then, a parent would be expected to cling to hope, however unrealistic, that she might still be able to be resuscitated, and fully expect that every attempt would be made to save her. The police were on a wild goose chase, also looking on land for a car reported stolen - some have said the report was not made from the area the car went into the slipway, but there is no verification for that - (someone on Jet's FB did take screenshots of Kim's FB posts - she has not shared them publicly, but they might be a matter of interest). It would have been a matter of urgency to discover if Kiara was still in the car - she may have been abducted, and the empty car dumped in the river - and for all anyone might have known, the car may have only shortly since entered the water when it was discovered, and there was still a chance of saving Kiara if she was found to be in it. Even if it was believed she had been in the water a long time, there would still exist the hope that Kiara could be resuscitated - there have been cases, albeit rare, of young children who have been successfully resuscitated after hours in drowning accidents.

Habundia said...

"I know - I'm being judgy. We are all different. There is no handbook for how anyone should grieve...etc. "

I think this is just an excuses people use when the way grieving is shown is not how grieve should be......sure there are different ways in how people grieve......but those ways will never be questioned, its those ways that are not being seen as appropiate that people begin saying that its not "right"

I yet have to see 1 death in where people used inappropiate way of grieving where death wasnt caused by another........give me one example and I will be convinced that it happens (inappropiate grieving) like a death caused by accident or in natural way....,....i really not have heard of any case that fits this thought.......so do you have an example please share!

"had gone 'beyond the call of duty'"
And what was her parents duty?
"Looking in the river and see nothing!" (From the slope you wouldnt see a lot)
And thats what was only done, after that it seems Kim went to look for a carjacker instead of going around looking in the water from different angles to see if she could find anything of a sign.

She hadnt seen a sign that the car was stolen still she concluded it was.....yet she didnt saw a sign of the car in the water and didnt find a need to conclude the car had been vanished in the water
I wonder how the car was found, it was said it was found a couple of meters away from the slope but was it still shown at the surface or had cops needed to dive deep before they located the car?

Hey Jude said...

About thirty years ago, when people in the UK began asking for, and were allowed, to play the deceased's favourite pop or rock music in churches during funerals, it was considered by many to be sacrilegious and deeply inappropriate - some were outraged to hear Elvis and Frank Sinatra played in church. These days it's accepted and often encouraged by priests and ministers. funeral directors and crematorium staff, along with the trend away from funerals held in churches - the reasoning is that it gives the personal touch, and is of comfort to the families. It's also more convenient, and shortens the proceedings if the ceremony is held at the crematorium, rather than also at the church. There was also a time when cremation was frowned upon, but it's acceptable now to many. Social trends change, now the move is away from the traditional funeral and mourning towards celebration, bright funeral clothes, balloons - the funeral bouncy castle is a new one to me - I hope that doesn't catch on.

I agree, his FB posts are off - and I don't read shock there. I wonder if the reality has really sunk in for him yet. Someone said his posts were 'flippant' - I think is the most accurate way to describe them.




Anonymous said...

Don’t know if anyone is still following this thread, but Jet Moore posted this fundraising appeal on Facebook 19 hours ago:

Jet Moore shared a fundraiser on YouCaring.
19 hrs ·
YouCaring
·
To leave a legacy of kiara Moore’s very happy short life we are setting up a trust to help people who may not be so happy. The aim will be to use the happiness she had, the outdoor skills we have and lots of ours friends and colleuges have to help people in sad times and or with mental health for want of a label.
We will link in with as many other companies, trust and charietes to make this happen in her legacy.
RAR RARS HAPPINESS WILL LIVE ON

And on the YouCaring page itself:

Kiara “Rar Rar” using her happiness
For: Kiara Moore “Rar Rar” using here happiness to help others
Aberteifi, Wales, United Kingdom
Organizer: Jethro Moore

The Story
Kiara “Rar Rar” left us in a tragic accident on the 19 March 2018. She was such a happy adventurous person and lived more of a life in her short 3 years than most people do in a whole life.
We are going to use her happiness and our skills in the outdoors to help others become happier when they hit bottom, whether that through loss or mental health issues or any other reason we can.
VIEW GALLERY
£270
of £1,000,000,000 goal


Note his billion pound goal!
Reminiscent of his statement that 'Kiara was 100000000% innocent'
And once again the assurances that this tiny child ‘lived more of a life in her short 3 years than most people do in a whole life’
What is going on here?

Anonymous said...

The above statement reads more like an advert for their business.

"to help others become happier when they hit bottom"

Was the car found at the "bottom" of the lake?

Anonymous said...

A post (yesterday) on Facebook from Kiara’s mother, Kim Rowlands:

Helped a Sheep give birth to her lamb this afternoon, after being persuaded to leave the house.. a beautiful moment but kept wishing Kiara was there to see this! She would have loved it! Miss you so much baby girl!

The post is accompanied by a picture of the said lamb, still covered with the muck associated with birth and with the umbilical cord still hanging on.
This appears to be Kim’s first post since the one where she admitted guilt regarding Kiara’s death. Now she points out how she is helping to bring new life into the world.
I find this couple’s posts very disturbing. But I assume (hope) the Welsh police force is monitoring their posts closely. I think that’s why the police issued the very unusual statement saying that they would ‘take action against people who post “malicious” messages on social media relating to the death of two-year-old Kiara Moore’.
I think the police want this couple to feel that they are on their side, so that the couple feel it’s safe for them to keep posting on FB. Because what’s being posted is very ‘interesting’ indeed.

Hey Jude said...

Jet Moore Ideas and support ! I think we as a bunch of fun loving hard working enthusiastic people can pass some of this on to people less happy. Rest-bites for families who go through this maybe as one small thing?
Studies as to the effect of outdoor time activities and the like on people with mental health.
Just a few of the ideas


-----

Could there be anyone less happy than a father whose two year old daughter drowned in a submerged car a few days ago? Just wondering.


Anonymous said...

I'm beginning to think that Facebook is not the best place from which to analyse anyone's statements. It seems to be a very peculiar (and rather disturbing) planet of its own.
Today (1 April) is Kim Rowland's birthday. So far 99 people have posted birthday wishes to her on FB. Many of these messages are very light-hearted and jolly. Messages include: "Happy birthday Kim have a good day and enjoy" and "Happy birthday chick".
Four days after her dead child was cremated???
Perhaps this is all just a sick April Fools joke?
Kim's response to the posts was: 'Thank you everyone for the birthday messages, however I chose not to celebrate my life after I lost the life of my daughters!'
It's all getting too bizarre for me.

Lucia D said...

Jet's repeated insistence on how happy Kiara's life was makes it very sensitive to him. Makes me wonder if the opposite is true. And his statement about her living "more of a life in her short three years than most people do in a whole life" is nothing short of absurd. Is he trying to convince himself, as well as everyone else?

Kim's post about not celebrating her birthday after the loss of her daughter seems more appropriate. Perhaps she is starting to " get" how they as parents appear to others. I don't think Daddy is there yet.

Hey Jude said...

I wonder if Jet is on the autistic spectrum - he has a strange way with words.
This is odd - he's all enthusiastic in appealing for help in setting up a trust for Kiara and he wants the support of organisations and businesses who can help provide fun activities- his dismissive response to one of the first offers is 'remind me and I will'.
Not fun enough?


LB: Cardigan swimming pool would love to link in, please get in touch
LikeShow More Reactions · Reply · 1d


Jet Moore: Ace remind me and I will! She loved it there and learnt how to swim you probly remember her well

Habundia said...

"Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm beginning to think that Facebook is not the best place from which to analyse anyone's statements"

I think fb is a "great" place for statement analysis, because people post things that are at top of their mind and so its the best "free speech" you can find. So many post things that they later remove when they see that it gives away a lot and after thinking about things they maybe "change their mind" on how to say things. Its that freedom of speech that is the best for statement analysis.

People can keep up saying "everyone moarns different"........i call it bullshit.
Moarns comes in stages, these stages are universal (Just read some documentation about moarning and about dealing with death and lost.........all will say it comes in stages. Its not about "good of had" way of moarning its about how humans are wired. Especially people who lost their child. No person wants their child to die before them.....and if they do, the trauma of losing a child is unbareable. The way these people have shown how they deal with their lost to me sounds unnatural......i dont care what anyone says, its not how moarning goes.

I wonder why Peter hasnt yet made an analysis on his words......because if it all is "right" and truth is spoken then it would be a great example for a case that shows truth in words.......we dont often see these kind of statement here, because they are plain and simpele....they show truth........this blog has 100s of reactions on this blogpost......this doesnt happen when "truth is spoken"! We wouldnt have spoken that much about the statements of they were "true!" (1000000000%)

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I also noticed Jet’s dismissive ‘remind me’ comment to Cardigan swimming pool when they offered to join up with him. Perhaps he’s regretting his comment: ‘We will link in with as many other companies, trust and charietes to make this happen in her legacy.’

Linking with established organisations (the pool seems to have been part of the community for 40 years) would place his charity and the way it’s run under close scrutiny. Perhaps he’s decided it’s wiser to only accept offers of help from loyal personal friends who won’t question the motives and actions of a ‘bereaved’ father.

Probably all irrelevant, though, as despite the hundreds of messages of sympathy since the tragedy, there have only been around 25 donations so far.

Willow said...

Jet Moore has two money raisings on going, if the information is correct. The other one is for Wales Air Ambulance. Walesonline 22. Mar.:

"The devastated father of a two-year-old who died in the River Teifi has raised more than £1,000 for the people who tried in vain to save his daughter’s life.

Jet Moore has decided to raise funds for Wales Air Ambulance in order to thank them for their efforts on Monday after the family’s car rolled into the water with daughter Kiara Moore sat in the back seat."

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/devastated-dad-raises-money-rescuers-14446090

@Hey Jude. Jet Moore's writing has obscurity in it. Kim's sentences are clear.

Anonymous said...

Willow, yes, Jet first asked for donations for Wales Air Ambulance and I think around £2000 has been raised now. He has a link on one of his FB posts to the Wales Air Ambulance FB page, which has a Donate button on it. So when people make a donation, it's going straight to the ambulance service.

His latest appeal for funds is less straightforward. He's asking for money for a trust that has not even been set up yet. And as he is personally named as the fundraiser, it looks like the money raised will be given to him. Only about £450 has been donated so far, perhaps because it's not clear exactly how the money will be spent.

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