tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post7550870401458079107..comments2024-03-18T04:20:15.987-04:00Comments on Statement Analysis ®: Test: Truthful or Deceptive?Statement Analysis Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13607372649929274491noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-26018847614343579622018-02-23T20:00:42.353-05:002018-02-23T20:00:42.353-05:00said we are driving so you die too. He said try m... said we are driving so you die too. He said try me and he didn't care. I said we could talk it through and he told me he hated me and that he wasn't fooling around and to shut up..."<br /><br />The pronoun We means cooperation. That makes this story deceptive. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-42177114435513846072015-11-02T15:23:46.052-05:002015-11-02T15:23:46.052-05:00Respective thanks - that should have been obvious....Respective thanks - that should have been obvious. Yes, I read Peter's answer and explanation, but I don't know how rape figures in it - Peter, was it a rape allegation, or was she raped but didn't acknwledge it as rape because she didn't want to end the relationship? I should have just left it alone after my first comment - it read true to me, but then I thought, as the consensus was towards deception, that there probably has to be something deceptive in there somewhere - but my reasoning was just wrong. Not good, not a happy bunny. :-/ Julietnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-61581353204241379372015-11-02T09:28:55.230-05:002015-11-02T09:28:55.230-05:00think of someone trying to give an exact quote...i...think of someone trying to give an exact quote...if they enter into the actual words, they can go into present tense language in the quote. Statement Analysis Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607372649929274491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-31698831148095893242015-11-02T05:28:30.590-05:002015-11-02T05:28:30.590-05:00Heather can say you're always wrong, but it is...Heather can say you're always wrong, but it is impossible for you to say truthfully that you are wrong 100 percent of the time. :^DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-17338454837136452172015-11-02T05:21:44.294-05:002015-11-02T05:21:44.294-05:00Juliet, you've probably read Peter's answe...Juliet, you've probably read Peter's answer and explanation, this is just fyi as you read future statements:<br /><br />"'I said we are driving so you die too' - again present tense..."<br />~~~<br /><br />This is actually past tense:<br />"I said, 'We are driving, so you die, too.'"<br /><br />She didn't say, "We were driving..." to him, because at that point they are still driving (well, ok, <i>her</i>, then).<br /><br />It's like when people say, "I told my 5-year-old daughter that I loved her."<br />Uh, did you change your mind, meet another kid? :^D<br /><br />You actually answered it yourself with the warning about getting help. She didn't mean if he hasn't already gotten help at this point; she clearly meant in the future.<br /><br />(but I would hope if that was the case she would wait until she's not driving at gunpoint of an angry drunk to say it.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-70564926244058721432015-11-01T14:59:28.565-05:002015-11-01T14:59:28.565-05:00So did he shoot her or did she shoot him? Or did n...So did he shoot her or did she shoot him? Or did no-one get shot? Julietnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-80635099656428795532015-11-01T14:32:43.126-05:002015-11-01T14:32:43.126-05:00I think the subject used the word we after the ass...I think the subject used the word we after the assault because they were both still in the car so anything that happened would happen to both of them. Also, the use of 'we' when the subject says "we can talk this out" may have been an effort to show the aggressor that they are on the same side, so to speak. A person with a gun pointed at someone else may not take it to well if he was told he was getting dumped. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-86930782415458066032015-11-01T13:41:40.546-05:002015-11-01T13:41:40.546-05:00Starting over:.p I think she doesn't take seri...Starting over:.p I think she doesn't take seriously his threat to shoot her if she does not stop talking as her response is to keep on talking, which is pretty dangerous unless she has reason to believe he won't shoot her. It seems this has happened before - he wants to do what he wants to do, and her objections and 'telling' him what not to do make him very angry. I think it's the punch which makes her almost lose control of the car. <br /><br />'I told him that he was mental and unless he gets help I was done' - mixed tenses, but as he could only get help in the future, is that an expected use or does the tense mean it is not from experiential memory? Should she be expected to have said 'unless he got help/agreed to get help'?<br /><br />'I said we are driving so you die too' - again present tense, so did she say it, or is she making it up as she goes along? I don't know, because if she is recounting the actual conversation, just quoting the words spoken, then they would have been in the present tense. Yet she is sometimes saying what actually was said - 'we are driving so you die too' - 'try me' - the rest is just how the exchange went - he wants more beer, she says no, he's had enough; he punched her, she tells him he is mental, etc. <br /><br />'you die too' - sounds more like a threat than an attempt to point out the reality of the situation; if she was trying to make him see reason would she not have said 'we are driving so you will die too'? <br /><br />'I said we could talk through'. 'Could' is like a future possibility? I don't know if that speaks enough to the immediacy of the situation. Would she not have said, 'let's talk it through' or 'we can talk it through'? <br /><br />'We are driving' - I get that some people say 'we are driving', but everywhere else she says only that she was driving - it's only at this point she becomes 'we'. It might be an attempt at unity, to diffuse the situation, as others say. I can't see, though, where she is attempting to diffuse rather than exacerbate the situation - she keeps talking, and 'you die too' sounds like a threat.<br /><br />She begins with 'it was like this' - so it was something like that, but not actually as stated? <br />Julietnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-20907818947432993122015-11-01T13:00:54.333-05:002015-11-01T13:00:54.333-05:00I will post the answer shortly.
Always remember...I will post the answer shortly. <br /><br /><br />Always remember what Heather says:<br /><br />"Peter is always wrong. That's what is so right about him."<br /><br /><br />PeterStatement Analysis Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607372649929274491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-57204826029646353712015-11-01T11:36:03.741-05:002015-11-01T11:36:03.741-05:00Two questions:
Does this apply the same when they...Two questions:<br /><br />Does this apply the same when they are in a longterm relationship, as it does for a date rape or when the assault is by an acquaintance?<br /><br />This excerpt doesn't include a claim of sexual assault; is it mentioned elsewhere in the interview? <br /><br />You also emphasize context, and that SA <br />is complex, requiring years of experience. Pronouns might be 100 percent intuitive, but couldn't that in itself misdirect an inexperienced analyst?<br /><br />(how would you feel if, after all of your hours of articles, lessons and patient feedback since starting this site, every one of us responded with only "Ha! She said 'we' after the gun was out, LIAR!!!" while not focusing on anything else?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-10769902377436240572015-11-01T11:24:29.373-05:002015-11-01T11:24:29.373-05:00Pronouns after the assault:
I told him that he wa...Pronouns after the assault:<br /><br />I told him that he was mental and unless he gets help I was done. <br /><br />I/him/he is straightforward. OK. <br /><br />He/I. is OK. But, interesting she does not say, "we were done". "I was done" may be more of a negotiating phrase rather than a statement that the relationship would be over. Note: Done what?? We assume she is talking about their relationship -- but she doesn't actually say what she is "done" about.<br /><br />He put his gun to my head and told me if I did not stop talking he would shoot me. <br /><br />He/my/me/I/he/me. Very straightforward. OK.<br /><br />I said we are driving so you die too.<br /><br />I/we are driving. See my other comment about "we are driving". Could have said, "you're in the car too, so if you shoot me, we both die". <br /><br />Two possibilities with regards to use of "we". <br /><br />1. She could be reporting her recollection of her actual words used, in which case "we" would be expected because it would be difficult in this moment for a person to instantly detach herself from their relationship, view it as irreparably broken (which she clearly does not given her comment about him getting help), and use a me/you construct. <br /><br />2. She could be using "we" as reflective of their current relational status at the time this account is given. In this case, it indicates she still views themselves as a couple.<br /><br />It is impossible to indicate whether this would indicate deception because we do not know the greater context of this account.<br /><br />He said try me and he didn't care. <br /><br />He/me/he. Sounds straightforward. OK.<br /><br />I said we could talk it through and he told me he hated me and that he wasn't fooling around and to shut up…"<br /><br />I/we. My comments regarding the use of "we" in the I/we above this one apply here as well. Too soon to detach from relationship if reporting what was said, and we can't tell if "we" in the present context indicates deception because we don't know the greater context of this account. Insufficient information.<br /><br />He/me/he/me/he. Straightforward.<br /><br />Conclusion: Greater context needed in order to use pronouns to test for deception.BallBounceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776039024486455199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-24944878816280782842015-11-01T11:12:31.865-05:002015-11-01T11:12:31.865-05:00IS this a rape claim? I missed the specifics of an...IS this a rape claim? I missed the specifics of an assault. I guess I'd better go re-read!klvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599686546273957253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-51624817751119280462015-11-01T11:00:14.688-05:002015-11-01T11:00:14.688-05:00the pronoun "we" indicates some form of ...the pronoun "we" indicates some form of unity between them. <br /><br />In rape cases, we do not see this after the rape. When we do, it is a signal of a fraudulent claim of rape. <br /><br />In this statement, the pronoun "we" emerges after the assault and the gun is out. <br /><br />what do you make of this?<br /><br />PeterStatement Analysis Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607372649929274491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-55362341112092690562015-10-31T23:14:46.479-04:002015-10-31T23:14:46.479-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.klvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599686546273957253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-15686123050149248322015-10-31T23:14:30.067-04:002015-10-31T23:14:30.067-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.klvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599686546273957253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-74531625040885400942015-10-31T22:05:37.800-04:002015-10-31T22:05:37.800-04:00I think the story is reliable. The pronouns are un...I think the story is reliable. The pronouns are unified until the request to go to Bloom. I assume/question if "I was done" means threatening a life partner relationship would be terminated. <br />I assume/question if the gun stays at the driver's head through out the end of the narrative. So after the assault is not part of the clip maybe. During the assault the driver unifies pronouns again. I would too, trying to defuse the situation and get the gun put away. <br />Ok, I'm in for the quiz, too. Thanks. LisaLisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767454008171910628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-61704527366151619042015-10-31T20:31:26.979-04:002015-10-31T20:31:26.979-04:00Since we're to start from the presumption of t...Since we're to start from the presumption of truth and not waver unless something sounds wrong, my first thought is still the common phrasing of "we" drove, but keep listening.<br /><br />OK, I just now noticed I'd missed the second we after the driving reference, wow, fail.<br />But in context it still flows like natural speech, which could be a clue in itself.<br /><br />Peter, do the we references drop as naturally and quickly when it's a longterm relationship as compared to a date rape or acqaintance assault?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-88788162950727255282015-10-31T19:50:34.781-04:002015-10-31T19:50:34.781-04:00Usually "we" is unexpected after an assa...Usually "we" is unexpected after an assault, but in this context I think it is appropriate. She is telling her words toward him. She was emphasizing unity to him. <br /><br />I notice she also changed from "told" to "said" at that point. Which may mean he had the upper hand and she wasn't arguing any longer, but calmer, more pleading??Susnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-78116864597174345322015-10-31T19:22:22.197-04:002015-10-31T19:22:22.197-04:00If he did suicide, IMO it explains her terseness a...If he did suicide, IMO it explains her terseness and brevity; she's traumatized and coping by sticking to bare facts.klvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599686546273957253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-35776857019848843732015-10-31T19:17:28.836-04:002015-10-31T19:17:28.836-04:00SuicideD.SuicideD.klvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599686546273957253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-54624457785124130142015-10-31T19:16:43.256-04:002015-10-31T19:16:43.256-04:00"We can talk it through": They were a co..."We can talk it through": They were a couple, or partners. Her appeal at unity (reminding & bargaining) seems appropriate there...Also sounds like he may have suicides at the end :(klvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599686546273957253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-21637608946764936562015-10-31T19:11:53.882-04:002015-10-31T19:11:53.882-04:00Whay do readers make of the "we" AFTER t...Whay do readers make of the "we" AFTER the assault?Statement Analysis Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607372649929274491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-73287951829151133002015-10-31T15:59:19.533-04:002015-10-31T15:59:19.533-04:00I think she is reliable. Her pronouns and tense ar...I think she is reliable. Her pronouns and tense are consistent and never show unity with the gun-holder until the last "We're driving" -- which is appropriate in context.<br /><br />Thank you, Peter. I'm learning ;)klvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01599686546273957253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-76938001690399800772015-10-31T15:57:07.002-04:002015-10-31T15:57:07.002-04:00I'm looking forward to Peter posting the analy...I'm looking forward to Peter posting the analysis so that we may compare our conclusions with it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08696212539579604251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-56272133539242074222015-10-31T15:06:38.596-04:002015-10-31T15:06:38.596-04:00Yes, pronouns are intuitive and 100 percent reliab...Yes, pronouns are intuitive and 100 percent reliable as to truth, but people more often than not use "we" drove. <br />It's still accurate because they don't think they all were operating the car simultaneously, and are not trying to imply it.<br /><br />We're assessing truthfulness, not her grasp of physics or grammar.<br /><br />The rest of her I and we usages conform to logistics, with singular actions and quotes attributed to one or the other, and we for what they both did.<br /><br />Her account us still unreliable; this just isn't one of the many red flags.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com