tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post9107405745298162063..comments2024-03-18T04:20:15.987-04:00Comments on Statement Analysis ®: "Making a Murderer": A Study in Propaganda Statement Analysis Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13607372649929274491noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-68837985410421250842017-02-22T15:24:27.995-05:002017-02-22T15:24:27.995-05:00Peter take a look at this ...https://www.youtube.c...Peter take a look at this ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0Ricksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-23237170112827283382016-01-22T08:32:51.683-05:002016-01-22T08:32:51.683-05:00Heather,
The Reid Technique of reading that type ...Heather,<br /><br />The Reid Technique of reading that type of body language for signs of deception is proven ineffective.JennCavnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-83455887366105722182016-01-06T18:24:04.474-05:002016-01-06T18:24:04.474-05:00Anyone who saw even a part of Brendan talking can ...Anyone who saw even a part of Brendan talking can see he is not comprehending any of this. He believed the investigator his first lawyer had evaluate him, by confessing he would have a life and family someday. He never made eye contact and his face was expressionless. Clearly he has a lack of something. Brendan was 16 at the time and unless they taped Barb saying they could talk to him I do not believe the police. I find it interesting that the DA would speak at the press conference as if he was opening the case and presenting it to the courts. He convicted and tried Brendan for the media. I also find it interesting that the cause of death changed per the DA. I find it interesting that there was none of the victims DNA found in any of the places they say she was? Odd? The state took care of the evidence and there would naturally not be a way to identify if anything was falsified etc. Still no DNA from the victim. I also have to question the interview with the PD and DA when asked about the police who were accused of setting stephen up helping when clearly those same men who were disposed actually offered to assist. Evidence found after several searches? How many people then missed this in the prior searches? Do the CSI need better training that they could not find it and it ironically took officers accused of wrongdoing to find this which per the picture was clearly in plain site? A drawing or someone's fetishes no matter how strange they are, this is not evidence they are a killer. Nor is owning handcuffs, porn or fighting with family.<br />I know of three teens who were tried and convicted by the public in a murder. One gave a false confession. They were too 16 and 17 and interviewed without a parent. Several hours and one of the kids finally confessed. Low and behold two others were the real killers. <br />These cops were dirty and not one of them should have been at the scene.From the Hearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11223695334209569916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-2128824765200026952016-01-06T13:56:31.190-05:002016-01-06T13:56:31.190-05:00This is in regards to body language. In the show, ...This is in regards to body language. In the show, they try to make the point of Dassey's jury not being shown the part of his 3/1/06 confession where his mother enters the room and he tells her that they "got in his head." Now, from what I understand about deciding the honesty of a person, there are body language cues to check, one being obstructive face touching. In all 3 parts of the police interview, there is picking, touching and rubbing by Dassey of his nails, chin and lip. While this could be considered suspect, he also does these same actions when left alone by the police. To me, this all came off as self soothing (like thumb sucking and ear holding) since there was little deviation between "alone Dassey" face touching and "in the middle of a police interview" Dassey face touching. This changes when he is told Barb, his mother was coming into the interview room. He almost immediately masks his face. When he, Barb, and the police are in the room together, Dassey is silent only muttering "hi" or "why" (hard to tell from audio). When it's just Dassey and Barb, he withdraws his face's viability even more and further sucks his body inward. This is also the only time he speaks to her. He immediately stops when the police re-enter. After Barb is gone, he slowly begin to relax, often displaying the same body language consistently seen in the pre-Barb interview. <br /><br />Now, this could very well be the reaction you'd see in someone who, after a police interview, is being arrested and has to face their mom. However, it looked more to me like a person that just couldn't look at their mom because they knew they bore some of the burden of guilt. I also found it troubling that when he did talk to her, it was a conversation of denial and manipulation, similar to the one between Barb and Avery, with both trying to learn what the other was saying and both appearing to try and manipulate an emotional Barbara into believing them innocent victims of the police. Uncoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213369583059076388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-18057216687504427012016-01-06T09:11:00.145-05:002016-01-06T09:11:00.145-05:00Do most people understand the colloquialism "...Do most people understand the colloquialism "by me" or "by you" from the transcript above? In Wisconsin, it is a common way of saying "at my/your place." The person may not be present, it just references the home or property. So, when Barbara and Steven say, "It didn't happen by me," they mean that the murder didn't take place at their respective homes. NOT that it didn't happen at their hands, which might be inferred if you are not familiar with the phrase (not implicating Barbara here, just focusing on that one phrase). I'd never heard the phrase used this way until I moved up here, and my father is a flat-lander (Wisconsinite for Illinois) so I don't know how far the phrase reaches, but not down that far.mom2manynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-7347426830037952772016-01-05T18:25:55.009-05:002016-01-05T18:25:55.009-05:00I think so - particularly as there's no RD and...I think so - particularly as there's no RD and it would have been so simple for him to have made one there. Hey Judehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118508358051764200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-71373655026743084702016-01-05T12:47:37.466-05:002016-01-05T12:47:37.466-05:00Yes, Hey Jude.
Steven: Well, then it happened so...Yes, Hey Jude. <br /><br /><i>Steven: Well, then it happened somewhere else.</i><br /><br />That looks like an admission to me.mom2manynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-18745461678710063972016-01-05T10:49:16.624-05:002016-01-05T10:49:16.624-05:00Heather - thank you for posting the phone call.
...Heather - thank you for posting the phone call. <br /><br />Well, there's definitely an 'it' which he is acknowledging, 'it' just didn't happen at Steve's house. It seems as far as Steve is concerned, it's Brendan own 'fault' if he gets life in prison because he shouldn't have admitted to 'something'. An 'it' and a 'something' do not make a nothing. Plus there's the 'certainly' and the 'at all'. And Brendan was at the bonfire, though I can hardly believe they burned Teresa's body there under the window - unless that was some weird type of normal in that family, which it could not have been, as there would have been evidence of other victims, if he, or anyone, had done that before. Hey Judehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118508358051764200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-5324319150708568622016-01-05T03:42:19.875-05:002016-01-05T03:42:19.875-05:00Jo, first I miss-remembered a part of that convers...Jo, first I miss-remembered a part of that conversation. My apologies. Avery doesn't ask "what about me: after Barb states Dassey is going to prison for life. My point still stands though because he asks what about me after Barb says Dassey is going down for something according to her, something he would never do. I pasted the episode 3 section I was referencing below and the link to the transcript site. <br /><br />[phone line ringing] <br />Barb: Hello? <br />recorded voice: This is a collect call from an inmate at the Calumet County jail. To accept this call, dial five now. <br />Steven: Yeah? <br />Barb: Yeah? <br />Steven: What? <br />Barb: You got $100,000 for me? <br />Steven: Where am I gonna get it from? <br />Barb: What do you mean? <br />Steven: What's the $100,000 for? <br />Barb: An attorney for my son. <br />Steven: He's got an attorney. <br />Barb: Well, I just lost him, OK? <br />Steven: How? <br />Barb: What do you mean "how"? Because he's second cousins with Halbach. <br />Steven: How can I help? <br />Barb: Well, he sure the f*ck didn't do it by himself. <br />Steven: Well, I certainly didn't do it. <br />Barb: Where did Brendan get all this sh1t from? He's going down for something that he would've never ever f*cking did. <br />Steven: Oh, what about me? <br />Barb: Why would he say this about you then? You tell me. He was over by you that night. Steven: That night he came over, we had the bonfire and he was home by 9:00, 'cause Jodi called me at 9:00, and I was in the house already. <br />Barb: So you're telling me when he got off the bus, he didn't come over by you with an envelope from out of my mailbox? <br />Steven: No, he did not. <br />Barb: Then what the f*ck are they trying to do? <br />Steven: You'd have to ask him. <br />Barb: So my son's gonna go to prison? <br />Steven: Well, I don't know. <br />Barb: What do you mean, you don't know? Yes, he is gonna. Life in prison he's gonna get. And he's only 16. <br />Steven: It ain't my fault. Is it? It ain't my fault at all. Just by his statement right there, he's got life. And there ain't nothing I can do with that. Why would he admit to something? <br />Barb: How do I know? <br />Steven: Well, that's what you gotta figure out. <br />Barb: How am I supposed to figure that out when he's in there and I'm out here? <br />Steven: Well, you go see him and you talk to him and tell him to be straight with you. Where'd he get this from? You know? Ask questions. Because it didn't happen over by me. Barb: Well, it didn't happen by me either. <br />Steven: Well, then it happened somewhere else. <br />Well, just see what you can do and if nothing else, if you want me to call you, let Ma know. Barb: Yeah, OK, then. <br />Steven: All right, then. <br />Barb: All right. <br />Steven: I love you. <br />Barb: Yeah. <br />Steven: OK, then. <br />Barb: Bye. <br />Steven: Bye. <br /><br />(This is Barb but not on the phone with Steven)<br />When I first read the report, I was mad and disgusted. But then hearing from Brendan last night, I just changed my whole attitude. I mean, I believe in my son, and I believe he's telling the truth when he told his first statement. And that they interrogated him and made him say what they wanted to hear.<br /><br />Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=524&t=24355Uncoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213369583059076388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-18815648979824265552016-01-04T21:17:16.917-05:002016-01-04T21:17:16.917-05:00Heather,
Could you provide more info as to where -...Heather,<br />Could you provide more info as to where - which episode and where in episode - for this phone call between SA & his sis? Thank you.<br />JoJonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-52729604621888249762016-01-04T17:05:58.711-05:002016-01-04T17:05:58.711-05:00It is incredibly helpful to read the show transcri...It is incredibly helpful to read the show transcripts instead of watching. The show used many tools for persuasion (music, lighting, cut scenes, etc) .I think that the crucial part of the Steven Avery Show is that collect call he made to Barbara Dassey after Brendan's arrest. He is calling to find out what Brendan has told to police. He knows she is emotional and uses her emotional state to manipulate her back to, if not his side, at least to undecided. The telling part is when she states that her son is going to prison for life, the first thing he does is ask "what about me?" I don't even think her used Brendan's name once in that phone call. I suggest checking out that part of the transcripts or listening to that part of the show again. Let me know if I'm off baseUncoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213369583059076388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-39717681587385263682016-01-04T09:44:23.221-05:002016-01-04T09:44:23.221-05:00I agree with a comment from a poster on Reddit tha...I agree with a comment from a poster on Reddit that in order to try to understand this case somewhat objectively, it is necessary to read the "primary sources" - interrogations, transcripts of phone calls, expanded court testimony of witnesses, as the docuseries is so slanted towards presenting Avery as an average Joe Redneck who has been a victim of widespread corruption. Which is not to say that there appear to be, at the least, some wrongdoing by law enforcement and other aspects of the legal system...<br /><br />However, after reading some of the "primary sources" re: Branden Dassey, and realizing that the docuseries "creatively edited" what was seen of BD, in order to present him in the worse possible light, as far as his limitations, and leading questions by interrogators, I now feel that in order to understand the case and how the defendants could have been convicted, given the "lack of evidence" shown in the doc, one must seek other sources of information.<br /><br />I appreciate the other commenters who have provided links to transcripts, and also the views of Dan H, as one who works in a correctional facility.<br /><br />I LOVE this site.<br /><br />JoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-49430434726037975052016-01-03T15:55:51.784-05:002016-01-03T15:55:51.784-05:00I`ve watched all of the video taped confessions an...I`ve watched all of the video taped confessions and read all of the accompanying transcripts as well as the "jailhouse" phone conversations. Although I am NOT an expert or lawyer, I do work in a very famous level 4 prison. <br /><br />As I sift through the tapes and transcripts it seemed very clear to me that Breden did not want his mother present. It's very common for people in custody to actually request to be interviewed alone. While everyone knows you should never talk to LE at all without a lawyer you`d be surprised to learn the vast majority of people do just that. When questioned they will have statements to the effect of; "I don't need a lawyer, I don't have anything to hide". Lawyers often offer up their clients in the same way, after considerable coaching. This is also an attempt to show their client has nothing to hide. Another shocker; most clients do not tell their legal representation the truth about their involvement in a crime.<br /><br />I think it's all too obvious in this case that Breden`s story changes more and more AFTER talking with his mother and attorney. In fact in the phone transcripts dated 5-10-06 to 5-13-06. The later, I belive, is one attempt at debunking Breden`s ealiest admissions of involvement. That one conversation is many, many times more leading and coercive than all of the taped interviews combined. The coercion is done by his own mother. They freely talk about the case on the phone until that conversation. During that phone call it is very clear they are aware it is being taped and actually stop each other from saying certain things and person's names.<br /><br />It's painfully obvious Brenden confessed on 2-27 and again to his mother on 5-10. Just as abvious, he was promised a deal for his confession. "Life WITH the possibility" was his deal. His attorney and mother were both very aware of what was going to happen to him even if he was not. They both knew what he admitted to both in those tapes and on the phone and have clearly been playing the "he's a poor stupid kid" card ever since. Stupidity is not a defence.<br /><br />I've seen many interagations and this one is mild, very mild. Telling a suspect that you know what happened so you may as well get it off your chest is probing not leading. Pointing out inconsistencies in previous statements is called clarifying not badgering. Asking someone for more details is searching not bullying. <br /><br />I have 90 inmates that work for me in prison. All 90 are lifers'. All but one say they didn't get a fair trial. All but two are what I would consider below average intelligence. I would never want to run in to any of the 90 outside the prison walls.<br /><br />I'd be very interested in SA and BD's behavior while in prison.DanHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13653219879064242119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-31137768438405021682016-01-03T15:53:19.141-05:002016-01-03T15:53:19.141-05:00Also, I said 'Teresa's rape and murder'...Also, I said 'Teresa's rape and murder' as though it were fact - Brendan's story-telling must be getting to me - I don't think there is evidence to support rape - there is only Brendan's questionable confession. Why he would make up such a terrible thing I don't know, so I do tend towards that being true. Hey Judehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118508358051764200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-81063807557546958932016-01-03T03:11:34.033-05:002016-01-03T03:11:34.033-05:00Anon - I agree.Anon - I agree.Hey Judehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118508358051764200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-61949890012549478262016-01-02T23:13:10.578-05:002016-01-02T23:13:10.578-05:00@Hey Jude
Sadly, your faux dialogue is all too be...@Hey Jude<br /><br />Sadly, your faux dialogue is all too believable!<br /><br />I do believe Brendan uses "I'm stupid" as an excuse sometimes. It's very hard to discern what is what with him because I believe he has suffered trauma and has cognitive impairments. That said, I also think he knows right from wrong and I think he knows how to lie and manipulate. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-18490300207694109422016-01-02T22:54:07.019-05:002016-01-02T22:54:07.019-05:00Peter, I have a question. How does mental retarda...Peter, I have a question. How does mental retardation affect statement analysis? It was said that SA had an IQ of 70 (70 something?) in the first episode. The mother mentions that Brendon is a "slow learner". <br /><br />I have a sister that is mentally challenged and I could see her being feed information and agreeing to it, just because she thought that's what they wanted her to do. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-69244842800074342502016-01-02T22:51:17.986-05:002016-01-02T22:51:17.986-05:00'That's not a woman screaming, Brendan, th...'That's not a woman screaming, Brendan, that's just your dear uncle Steven making a few Halloween decorations out of the cats. Why did you think it was a woman?'<br />"Because I'm stupid.'<br />'You're not stupid to me, Brendan. What's that red stuff on your jeans?'<br />'It's bleach, mom. Just bleach, like, ya know.'<br />'Oh, yes... Goodnight, Brendan.'<br />'<br /><br />--<br /><br />Sorry. :-/<br /><br />If Brendan was always regarded as stupid (in her favour, not by his mother, it would seem) that could have become an excuse to him, which he used to get out of trouble - he may have found advantages to it, 'He can't help it...he didn't mean it....he doesn't understand...etc - because he's stupid.' Maybe he thought if he acted really 'stupid' he would be less likely to end up in trouble for whatever part he played, or might have played, in Teresa's rape and murder.<br /><br />It's just a thought, not saying I think that is the case. It's concerning that those with low and lower IQs, statistically, make the highest number of false confessions, and there's no disputing that the interviews were all wrong from the get go, as there was no adult there for him. I agree with whoever said he should have had someone to act as an 'interpreter', to be sure that when he said he understood, that really, he did, and to stop him getting himself into deeper and deeper trouble. I wonder, did he really feel and understand that he could just go home, and not be interviewed at all, or that he could decline to answer, or leave at any time? I'm not sure, really, that he did - at that age, he would still think he should do as he was told, which seemed more that he was expected to stay there and answer all the questions, than that he could just say no, He wanted to go back to class and not sit there saying stuff until he was arrested for some of the most heinous crimes. If he knew really, that he had that choice, then would he have 'co-operated'? Would there ever have been enough cause to arrest him, had he not agreed to be interviewed? <br /><br />I wish there was more about Brendan, what he was like, his home and school and social life. There's nothing against which to compare his attitude, behaviour and demeanour in the interviews. I'd also like to know what he is like now, what his IQ is, if he was able to complete his education, and most of all, what he would say now about Teresa's murder. It may well be out there, I haven't found time to look at much beyond the documentary and Brendan interviews so far. <br /><br /><br /><br />Hey Judehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118508358051764200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-54690135208050692082016-01-02T20:58:54.958-05:002016-01-02T20:58:54.958-05:00@Hey Jude
You're most welcome! :-)
I agree ...@Hey Jude<br /><br />You're most welcome! :-) <br /><br />I agree that she would not have believed/would have dismissed him if he told her about the touching. She might not have even believed him if he told her about Teresa being held in the trailer! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-5957676223138258082016-01-02T18:24:13.459-05:002016-01-02T18:24:13.459-05:00Thanks, Anon.:)
Poor Brendan - in that call his m...Thanks, Anon.:)<br /><br />Poor Brendan - in that call his mother is turning back on him, and blaming him for her failure to protect him. She had turned a blind eye to the 'horseplay' - he already knew she would similarly dismiss any complaints of touching, and his embarrassment in telling her would be a waste of his embarrassment, IMO.Hey Judehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118508358051764200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-5998847208285298082016-01-02T16:40:45.564-05:002016-01-02T16:40:45.564-05:00@ Hey Jude
phone transcript: https://www.reddit.c...@ Hey Jude<br /><br />phone transcript: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3y9ulo/transcript_of_brendan_dassey_phone_call_to_mother/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-77013657754922074572016-01-02T16:35:09.576-05:002016-01-02T16:35:09.576-05:00@Sus
Sadly, I too believe it might've been no...@Sus<br /><br />Sadly, I too believe it might've been normal for him to hear screaming. I'd also be interested to learn more about what Brendan's home life was like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-7972701098637161782016-01-02T16:32:56.989-05:002016-01-02T16:32:56.989-05:00I agree, the first interviews were better, and eve...I agree, the first interviews were better, and even the later ones do not appear so bad when viewed in light of the earlier interviews. <br /><br />Sus, would you know if there are transcripts of Brendan's phone calls with his mother? I don't have the will to listen through all the documentaries again. It sounds from what you say as if inappropriate sexual behaviour towards her young sons was excused and minimised by the mother; in the later interview Brendan conceded, after some encouragement, that Avery had tried to grab him, etc - I wondered if he was minimising that out of embarrassment. <br /><br />That type of behaviour must have been accepted within the family, as they all continued to interact and no-one reported it. Considering Avery had only been in the kids' lives since his release from prison, and his sister could not know really, what he was like as a result of being in that environment for so long, it's surprising she let him live right next door, would expose her boys to his influence, and allow that type 'horseplay'. Brendan even described a beating from Avery, when he would not co-operate in attending a family birthday party. The mother just told Avery to stop, but Brendan doesn't say she called the police, or even threatened to do that - probably she was fearful of him, too. Maybe it's not surprising she didn't protect her sons from him, or maybe that was their 'normal' and she saw no need. I'd think Brendan would have been scared of Avery and want to keep in with him, so was more easily induced to do what his uncle wanted. <br /><br />If Jodi was 'shared' with the Dassey boys, there's no assuming there was any moral education at home, or maybe even the wider family, so I agree it's quite possible the boys grew up in a sexually abusive environment, did not have much by way of moral character or ability to resist Avery's influence, also that Brendan was already traumatised. Just don't watch as the defective cats are shot - no thought to not tell the kids what's going to happen to the cats, or to not shoot cats, and especially not in front of the children. So, well - it would take some getting inside Brendan's head, and that of his mother.Hey Judehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118508358051764200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-5711929166308320392016-01-02T16:06:21.307-05:002016-01-02T16:06:21.307-05:00I also agree with Jo. To add some to being desensi...I also agree with Jo. To add some to being desensitized by his uncle: Steven Avery said the handcuffs were for use with his girlfriend, Jodi. There was at least one call to police of DV between Steven and Jodi. Steven was ordered to stay away from Jodi for three days. Is it possible Brendan was used to hearing screams and fighting from Steven's trailer? And even women in handcuffs?Susnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164794708270892518.post-78680723804711882632016-01-02T15:11:05.774-05:002016-01-02T15:11:05.774-05:00I completely agree with Jo's statement: "...I completely agree with Jo's statement: "I believe it's possible that he BOTH lacked empathy AND didn't understand the seriousness of her distress, AND/ OR was desensitized to trauma & suffering, at least in part by his uncle."<br /><br />I do think the investigators could've been less coercive, but I actually think they did a pretty good job in the March interview. There are parts where Brendan is lying by omission and they pick up on this and ask him to expound upon statements and periods of times that he glosses over.<br /><br />I actually don't think it's that weird that he assumes he will go back to school. He seems profoundly out of it, and I don't think he has connected what happened that day with his present day reality. I also doubt he knows much about the criminal justice system and process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com