Tuesday, May 7, 2013

Missing Women Found Safe

Found! Three women kept prisoner for a decade in Ohio house

19 Action News/WOIO
FREEDOM: Amanda Berry (center) celebrates her liberation with family and friends yesterday.
Three women escaped a living nightmare yesterday when someone finally heard their cries for help from inside a suburban Ohio home where they had been held prisoner after disappearing a decade ago.
Amanda Berry, 27, and Gina DeJesus, 23 — who went missing as teenagers — were found alive and well after a neighbor heard screams coming from the house in Cleveland.
Michelle Knight, 32, was also found in the home. She disappeared in 2000 when she was 20 years old.
“We’ve confirmed it’s them,” a detective told Cleveland’s Plain Dealer. “They are alive and safe.”
FBI handout photos show Amanda Marie Berry (left), missing since she was 16, and Georgina Lynn Dejesus, missing since she was 14.
The miraculous discovery occurred when a neighbor, who happened to be home from work, heard shouting coming from the house and went to investigate.
“I heard screaming . . . I come outside and I see this girl going nuts trying to get out of her house,” neighbor Charles Ramsey told Cleveland’s WEWS-TV.
“I go on the porch and she said, ‘Help me get out. I’ve been here a long time.’ ”
Another neighbor then helped break down the door and free the desperate young woman, who they later discovered was Amanda Berry.
As soon as she escaped, Berry called 911 from the Ramseys’ home and told police she was the girl they’d been searching for all these years.
“Help me, I’m Amanda Berry,” she said in the frantic 911 call. “I’ve been kidnapped and I’ve been missing for ten years and I’m here — I’m free now.”


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REK said...

The neighbor happened to be home from work the day she is able to scream and shout to get out. so amazing

John Mc Gowan said...

Fantastic news..

One question:

Given the close proximity from were they were all taken,and the the close
proximity they were all held captive,how did LE not find them..?

John Mc Gowan said...


Paedophile Brit 'Had Dungeon' Under US Home.

American prosecutors say the man, who has admitted child sex charges, plotted online to torture, murder and eat his victims.

WARNING: Disturbing reading..


John Mc Gowan said...

RE:Peters article..

Could Stockholm Syndrome paid a small roll in these kidnappings..

Stockholm Syndrome:

or capture–bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI's Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome.

Read More:


Unknown said...

Omg I found SA gold! It appears the accused kidnapper may have been a reporter who wrote about the DeJesus case - the kidnapper interviews the missing girl's mother? The problem is I have no idea if this Ariel Castro and the kidnapper are really the same person, but the writer mentions how much attention each case gets twice, in an odd way.


SAlurkerOne said...

I read that "article" last night. It was chilling, reading it. It made me think how much he cherished the attention from it & how sick he must be.

Thank God those girls got out alive!!!
I wish them all well in their road to recovery!

Nic said...

This news story gave me the chills.

John, remember Jaycee Dugard. She was held in a backyard compound for 18 years. It gives one pause to think how close in proximity secreted missing persons could be, doesn't it?

They've already released Amanda Berry's 911. I'm listening to it right now. Chilling.

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Mc Gowan said...

Hi Nic.

Its old the adage,If you want to hide something,put under the nose of those who are looking?

dadgum said...

thank you Wreyreter72

"..it is difficult to go any length of time without seeing Gina's picture on telephone poles, in windows, or on cars along the busy streets."

John Mc Gowan said...

News conference on Sky News coming soon.

Click watch sky news live Button.


Unknown said...

What is most interesting to me about the article is twice the writer points out the amount of attention each missing girl case has received. But he doesn't attribute that opinion to anyone else - in reporting that is editorializing. Those statements about the attention are the writer's opinion. He was enjoying the attention.

Lucy said...

Ariel Castro appears to be the perp's son who goes by Anthony. He wrote the article while in college, not while living in the home, so it appears to be a very bizarre coincidence.

Lucy said...

CNN is reporting that it was the son, who goes by Anthony, who wrote the article. However, since CNN is not exactly a shining beacon of journalistic accuracy (see the Boston Bombing coverage) confirmation is needed.

JoAnn said...

The two things that stand out the most for me: there are no photos of Michelle Knight, and it seems no one was looking for her very hard; and when police were using a backhoe to dig for one of the missing girls' supposed body, she could probably hear the activity, as it was taking place around the corner from the actual house where she was being held (unless she was in a soundproof room). Imagine the despair felt by both girls who were being so desperately searched for, and, sadly, by the young woman it seems no one was really looking for...

lake erie princess said...

Cleveland is approx. 40 mi. west of me. We were always on the look-out out here as well for these girls. This is truly a miracle ! God is good !!! It is wonderful that these 3 ladies were found. There is so much evil and it walks among us in sheep's clothing......

Dee said...

JoAnn...According to this article, the police and social workers believed Michele left on her own because she was angry her son had been removed from her custody. Her mother said they were close and she believed Michele would still contact her if she was able to. Her mother did not give up looking but she had no help from LE.


JoAnn said...

Dee, I do try not to be judgmental. I read an interview with Michelle Knight's mother, who currently resides in Florida. she did say she returned to Cleveland several times to search for her daughter. She did say that she once thought she saw her daughter walking down the street with an older man, but when she called her name, she did not turn around. I think there are people who are just so beaten down by life or circumstances, they feel they have no power and have no confidence. Otherwise, what on earth could keep that mother from running over to confront the young woman that she thought could be her daughter??!!!

OldPsychNurse said...

Why were there not door-to-door home searches for these defenseless females? Because it would violate the civil rights of those committing crimes inside their homes?

Lucy said...

I'm thinking this house contained a very interesting soundproofed basement. Maybe with a hidden entrance. Remember the guy in Syracuse? He was in a residential neighborhood with close neighbors, and no one had any idea he had a torture dungeon under his house for decades.

Anonymous said...

"I go on the porch and she said, ‘Help me get out. I’ve been here a long time.”

I am wondering why the neighbor said "I go on the porch" instead of "I went on the porch" making it sound like storytelling?

Don't we look for past tense in reliable accounts?

I'm confused here.

S + K Mum said...

This truly is some good news! It is a real shame that these ladies were not found earlier but they are alive and reunited with their families! It is nice to hear good news.

Tia Sharpe trial.


I thought I would post this as it reminds me of the Hailey Dunn case. Pornography in the home of the accused etc.

John Mc Gowan said...

Anonymous said...

"I go on the porch and she said, ‘Help me get out. I’ve been here a long time.”

I am wondering why the neighbor said "I go on the porch" instead of "I went on the porch" making it sound like storytelling?

Don't we look for past tense in reliable accounts?

I'm confused here.


I'd like to add to your post.

“I HEARD SCREAMING(Past tense) . . . I COME outside and I SEE(present tense) THIS girl going nuts trying to get out of her house,”

Why the change from past tense to present tense?

THIS:(THIS is close THAT IS distant)

"I see THIS girl going nuts trying to get out of her house",

Has she seen her before?

If not,should she have said"I saw A girl going nuts trying to get out of her house."?

Anonymous said...

I think Spanish is her first language.

Anonymous said...

@ John and your question about how LE didn't find them-

Because so often looking for something in any case is like looking for a needle in a stack of needles.

John Mc Gowan said...

Anonymous said...
I think Spanish is her first language.

Thanks Anon.


Do we take this in to account when analyzing statements?

Anonymous said...

のみ、1はwon't傷つける羊です通常使用のクリーニング。その後彼は設立ルイヴィトン維持会社、登録商標 ルイヴィトン。人々 いた されて 驚かれる によって、完全 トピック の やす シープスキン バッグによって伝達されます。 ドレッシー まだ を持つルルドは、3 ウェッジヒール インチ。

SAlurkerOne said...

I'm not sure what Peter would say in this case but I can tell you from experience that when hearing a Spanish speaker speak English - they will often use present tense language to describe something past tense. This is extremely common.

Just something I learned from living in LA.

S + K Mum said...

Just read about the Paedophile Brit with the dungeon. Horrifying! These people should be shot. Nothing can help people like that. One bullet each.

Tania Cadogan said...

I don't know about anybody else here but my hobnobby sense are quivering.

Something isn't right here, there is something missing and i cannot put my finger on it.

There is something off and it's bothering me.

I can fully understand stockholm syndrome, it happens, it is a survival instinct, bond with the captor and they are less likely to hurt you.

I can understand it with one victim, two makes me think of the case of the two boys, the oldest who came forward and told the truth because he didn't want the 2nd victiim to endure what he had.
i could even understand two victims bonding if out in the middle of nowhere, sisters in fear so to speak.

It's the fact there were 3 (;iars number Mark McClish) victims and 3 abductors/men involved.

Why wait so long to try and escape when there were opportunities before?
There would have been times when they were alone in the house and neighbors doing neighborly stuff, why was no attempt ever made?

Was there a landline in the house?
A PC or a cell phone?

I need to ask why they waited so long, why not act when the third victim was brought in?
By then it would have been clear it was an ongoing crime, what caused them to decide not to seek help?

I am not blaming the victims for the situation they found themselves in,in the case of Jaycee Duggard she was j kept hidden away in the back yard.
In other cases victims were kept in locked cellars and unable to escape or be heard.

Why not break a window and scream like hell, someone would have heard and either investigated or called 911.

All i am sensing so far is passivity, these are now grown women, why not make an effort?
Were they so browbeaten and abused they said nothing, did nothing?
If so, what changed yesterday or recently that one made a break for it and got them all rescued.

What changed in their reality, that caused them to take action to become the aggressive and not the passive?

The tenses by the rescuer aren't setting off my SA, English is not his native language, he tenses will be flexiable the same as many adults say i seen instead of i saw.
The same as one of the women in the limo fire spoke in all present tense with pronouns skipping, it was a combination of emotion and 2nd language english, her speech though distressed was consistent.

I think there is more to come out in this case, i will not be surprised.

ME said...

Great news!!!

QChick said...

@ Hobnob

What may have changed?

These girls were abducted at 14,16,and 20. The men were in their 40's. I read elsewhere that the girl on the right is Amanda Berry's daughter. Maybe Amanda was worried about her daughter as she got older (both she and her daughter). I know that is despicable and disgusting, but maybe not out of the realm for these men. Amanda may have lost hope for herself at one time but maybe she found strength for her daughter. She may have also always wanted to escape but this day had the trifecta for her: the neighbor home, the kidnapper out, the neighbor(s) WILLING to get involved.

JoAnn said...

News sources from Cleveland are reporting that one woman may have been kept upstairs (possibly each woman at different times) as there were chains hanging from the ceiling. Chains & bondage were also found in the basement. They may have been gagged when he wasn't home. They were certainly physically abused - reports are emerging that there were multiple pregnancies, but they were beaten so severely that the pregnancies were lost (other than the one child, who was almost certainly used as a tool to control the mother). It's also possible tht the women formed close bonds, and this could have been used as another way to psychologically torture - threaten the well-being of one to control the others. It makes sense that the mother of the one living child was the one to gather the courage to break free.

Dee said...

OT - This story is from 5/3 so it may have already been posted here.

Kristi Abrahams guilty plea to manslaughter was not accepted by the court and she will stand trial for murder.

Kristi Anne Abrahams has admitted to killing her six-year-old daughter Kiesha Weippeart.

In the Supreme Court in Sydney on Thursday, Abrahams, 29, pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of her daughter and to interfering with her remains.

But her guilty plea to manslaughter was not accepted by the Crown and she will stand trial for murder next month.

Kiesha was reported missing from her home at Mt Druitt in western Sydney, on August 1, 2010.

Abrahams was charged with murder after human remains were discovered in bushland at Mt Druitt eight months later in April 2011 - on what would have been Kiesha's seventh birthday.

Crown prosecutor Christopher Maxwell, QC, told the court the main issue in the trial would be whether the Crown could prove Abrahams had the necessary state of mind to commit murder.

She will stand trial on June 17.


dadgum said...

There are reports that the busdriver brother lost his job in November, and that the taxes had not been paid on the home in years. Perhaps she sensed the stress level, or overheard talking. Maybe they feared being killed to cover up the crime. Still has not been said why one woman escaped and the police got the others out..were they tied? Locked in a basement? Has not been reported yet.

Lis said...

I pasted this on a different article last night but I didn't have time to comment on it. This is a statement by the uncle of the suspect:



A man who said he is the uncle of one of the suspects is shocked, because the girls were found in his nephew’s home.

“I went over there, and I said this is my nephew’s house, this can’t be happening, whew, God. But then they confirmed it,” said Julio Castro.

“Gina is a friend of my family. They’ve been friend of ours. They grew up together. On the other side, it’s my nephew. Who everybody thought was such a nice person, was a bass player, a school bus driver, a beautiful person, which is a shame for my family because we are a wonderful family,” Castro said.

“Everybody thought, not just me, all the neighborhood. The neighbors claimed he had beer with them, and everybody was surprised,” Castro said

“We always thought that they’d be alive somewhere … my God,” Castro said.

I just find a few hinky things in his statement. Maybe because, "whew, God!" is more something you say when you get off a roller coaster than when you find out your nephew is a disgusting creep who does not deserve to be alive, but also, the past tense "they've been a friend of ours" and the big attempt to persuade that "we are a wonderful family." "Everybody thought, not just me, all the neighborhood."

The womens' faces tell a story of years of stress and anguish.

Unknown said...

IMO, if the son did write this article, then LE needs to interview him pronto.

patrice said...

I'd like to add to your post.

“I HEARD SCREAMING(Past tense) . . . I COME outside and I SEE(present tense) THIS girl going nuts trying to get out of her house,”

Why the change from past tense to present tense?

THIS:(THIS is close THAT IS distant)

"I see THIS girl going nuts trying to get out of her house",

Has she seen her before?

If not,should she have said"I saw A girl going nuts trying to get out of her house."?

That's how certain people talk in that area- you have to be from Cleveland or lived there at one time to know the different dialects.

Child Advocate said...

Thank God the 3 women and their children have been rescued! I just read there are multiple children, LE will not confirm how many.

Neighbors heard screaming before, but could not confirm where it came from before it stopped. They called LE to the neighborhood, but LE couldn't tell as it had stopped. I think they tried to escape before, but were unable to. Yesterday Amanda had the chance and was able to call attention to her situation. She didn't leave the other two, they were all saved.

We have no idea the circumstances these girls and the children lived under. I doubt any of us can picture ourselves or God forbid one of our children living this horror. I'm so thankful Charles didn't turn his back on Amanda. thank God they are safe now.

John Mc Gowan said...

Patrice said..

That's how certain people talk in that area- you have to be from Cleveland or lived there at one time to know the different dialect..

Hi Patrice,

Thanks for your post,this is why this blog is so good,we get to learn not only from Peter Et Al,also from members.


Jeffssis said...

Hobnob: Your post angered me. One should NEVER ask why a victim didn't escape. You cannot apologize or rationalize why you would ask. Each individual victim does what he or she can...period. The key word here is VICTIM and victims are not expected to do anything other than try to survive their ordeal.

Dee said...

There may have been more...In this article it also says that another woman was in the home when Michele Knight got there. She woke up one day and she was gone. There was a RIP and a woman's name written on the wall of the basement but it is unclear if it has any relationship to the case.


Ney said...

Wreyeter72 said...
IMO, if the son did write this article, then LE needs to interview him pronto.
Wreyeter, yes it seems the son wrote that article. How weird is that?
It is for sure LE is checking all of those men's relatives, friends, to check who else knew about it. They must have suffered a lot there, it is a miracle they survived. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/anthony-castro-article-dejesus-161741407.html

Lis said...

Mugshots released of the brothers in this "wonderful" family.

Anonymous said...

Hobnob, you really do need to study stockholm syndrome and read about extreme abuse, deprivation, and brain washing.

Lis said...

Seems like the press conference was all about law enforcement trying to cover their own rears for not solving this case.

Sus said...

The rescuer was a male - Charles, not a "she."

I think it is natural to use "this" in the interview as he felt close to the girl he saved.

As for changing tenses, if you listen to the interview, Charles is obviously a bit of a story-teller. The good old boy type...the type as he said to have ribs with his neighbors, listen to Salsa, and expect people to not be crazy...just fun.

Charles changes pronouns from i to we because another man joined him to help break the door open.

Charles himself said he thought it was a domestic disturbance. He was willing to walk up on that porch and help an unknown woman he thought was abused. Face it. Many would have walked by. Charles is the man!

Randie said...

More will come out about all of this.

These women will need emotional and physical help.

I am suspicious of the neighbore. He spoke in present tense AND used the word "this" not "a".....

The neighbor, for what ever reason is being desceptive.

Child Advocate said...

I don't see Charles as deceptive, I hope I'm not wrong. He is a storyteller as Sus said. Charles took the day off and was eating McDonald's when he heard Amanda scream. He doesn't appear to be highly educated, which could account for his speech patterns. I'm thankful he was there to save Amanda! He's a hero. If it turns out to be something else, I will be very surprised.

Tania Cadogan said...

There is every reason to ask why they were not found for so long, why they made no escape attempt or attempt to get attention.

I take nothing at face value, there are victims out there who never had the chance or the strength of courage to seek help.
This can be for a multitude of reasons.

Bear with me a moment though.

If the child found with them is the daughter of one of the victims, in all likelihood fathered by one of the captors, then i am compelled to ask these questions.

Was it a home birth where none knew she was pregnant or a hospital birth?

If a hospital birth why not seek help there and then?
What about illness, school etc for the child?

These are not questions asked because i do not belive their story, these are questions asked because i want to know the whys and wherefores.
I ask the questions LE will be asking albeit in different words.

There answers will form the basis of the charges the men face.

You can bet your sweet bippy the men's attornies will ask what i have asked.

They are logical questions, they are the obvious questions to be asked even if they are upsetting.

They will be asked far worse when it comes to trial, they will probably be accused of co-operating in their 'alleged abduction', they went willingly and so on.

Perhaps you need to step back and ask yourselves, those who harngue me, why you refuse to even contemplate questioning what happened to the girls, what they did and didn't do and so on.

There are 2 sides to every story, in this case the victims and the abductors, somewhere in the middle is where the truth lies and it is the truth i seek.

Something is off and i don't know what, it is a persistant little itch i cannot scratch like an itch deep inside your ear.
There is something missing, there is their story, there is the story from the abductors side, there is the bit in the middle which as yet has not been said.

It is entirely possible the defence will claim the girls colluded in their disappearance, they were free to come and go and such like, they left their families because of arguments, abuse, any number of things. Most of such claims will be blatantly false, there may however be a nugget of truth to them, it may be all the defence has to save their clients from LWOP.
The characters and lives of the girls will be disectted, every row laid open.

It will be hard on them, they need to be truthful even if it hurts them and their families if they want to make sure this never happens again and that just is done.

The family of the abductors will also be quizzed, what did they know, what did they see, why , if they saw something odd they never asked questions or called LE.

Questions will be asked that, given their location, why they were never found in house to house searches.
Why were they missed?
what can be learned from this?

Dee said...

OT...From the Snyder Daily News...(The Snyder Daily News online is a paid site. I saw a copy of the article on the Waiting on Justice for our girl Hailey Dunn Facebook page.)

A Scurry County Grand Jury handed down eight indictments against seven people on Monday. Two of the eight indictments are sealed.

Now this could be for anything and totally not related but maybe, just maybe...

Tania Cadogan said...

In such cases in the future i will question they whys and wherefores, i accept nothing as absolute truth.
Not to question the veracity of a statement is to remain ignorant be they victim or perpetrator. Remember, it is not unknown for fake allegations to be made ( charlie rogers anyone) it is not unknown for a teen to run away and stay with friends and when found claim abduction, it is not unknown for a rape victim to admit the claim was false as they feared the reaction of their partner or family.
These girls vanished for up to 10 years, it is probable they are innocent victims in all this, they have a much lost time to make up, they need time to heal, to come to terms with what has been done to them.

It is also a faint possibilty that they were willing participants, they helped with subsequent abductions and mistreatment.
Until we know more, I know more, there is nothing that can be excluded horrible as it sounds.

The defence will think as i have, how can we minimise the role of my client, can we convince a jury it was not abduction rather a runaway?
They too will look at the 10 years they remained missing and ask what i have, why wait so long?

The 10 yrs is the elephant in the lounge, it cannot be ignored therefore we have to minimise it, camoflage it.

The subject is dead ( not literally in this case) the statement is alive.

I will see what comes out in there words and actions on all sides.

S + K Mum said...

I watched Charles interview and I don't think he was deceptive. He seems like a guy who is overwhelmed and excitable about the whole situation, which is understandable. There were cameras, journalists, neighbours everywhere and 3 ladies,missing for ten years had been found. He says he lived there for a year, hadn't seen this girl before and described her as pretty :)
(Not analysis of his words - just my instincts). I kinda like him!

JoAnn said...

@ Hobnob
Yes, there is much to be learned from this. Little truths are beginning to trickle out, as always. A neighbor saw a naked woman in the backyard of the suspects' home; loud knocking was heard coming from that house; screams were heard in the neighborhood & even though police were called, no one could pinpoint a location; the suspect went into the house with a McDonalds bag every afternoon & came right back out without the bag; and so on and on...

Anonymous said...

Is it just me? How often do 911 operators end calls with victims before LE actually arrive?Weird.

John Mc Gowan said...


The is an interesting Article.

Confessions of a Sociopath.

She's a successful law professor and a Sunday school teacher, with a host of family and friends. But her interpersonal calculus centers on how to manipulate and outmaneuver the many people in her life. Welcome to a world of ruthless cost-benefit analysis, charm, and grandiosity.


Anonymous said...

"Elizabeth Smart has been asked many times why she didn’t run away from her captors when she had the opportunity. She addressed this question in front of the audience at Johns Hopkins, saying she didn't think it was worth the effort because she already felt ruined. She said this feeling stems from teaching she learned as a child.

"I had a teacher who was talking about abstinence, she said, 'imagine you're a stick of gum and when you engage in sex, that's like getting chewed, and if you do that lots of times, you're going to become an old piece of gum, and who's going to want you after that'?""


S + K Mum said...

Anon @ 4.00

I felt annoyed at the 911 operator, it seemed as though they didn't understand the gravity of the call.

John Mc Gowan said...

Kidnap Victim Gina DeJesus Was 'Best Friends' with Suspect’s Daughter

The harrowing nightmare is finally over for kidnap victims Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight, who were abducted as girls and held captive in a Cleveland, Ohio home for more than 10 years.

Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus / Splash News
News is surfacing that DeJesus, who was taken at 14, likely knew suspect Ariel Castro before she vanished on her way home from school in 2004.

In a surprising turn of events, video has hit the web of Castro's daughter, Arlene, telling "America's Most Wanted" that she was the last person to see Gina the day she was kidnapped. Arlene claims the girls were best friends and were walking home together.

At one point, Arlene wanted to call home to ask if she could go to Gina's for the afternoon. She borrowed 50 cents to use the pay phone, but her mom said "no." The girls parted ways and DeJesus didn't have enough money left for bus fare.

Family members also told Action News 19’s Lydia Esparra that Castro is related to Gina’s best friend, and that he attended at least two vigils for the missing women.

In another surreal twist, the New York Daily News reports that Castro's daughter Emily was convicted of attempted murder and is currently serving 25 years in prison for slashing her 11-month-old daughter's throat. WKYC also says Castro's son Anthony wrote an article in 2004 about how DeJesus' story had changed the neighborhood (she was found two miles from where she disappeared). He was a journalism student at Bowling Green University at the time.

Castro, 52, who owns the Cleveland home, is one of three men arrested in the case, along with brothers Pedro, 54, and Oneil, 50.

A house of horrors scenario has emerged since the victims’ discovery. Sources told Action News 19 that two women were likely held in the basement and another in a room upstairs. In one room, chains were reportedly hanging from the ceiling.

It has also come to light that Amanda Berry gave birth to a daughter while held captive. The daughter, now 6, was with Amanda when she made her dramatic escape on Monday.

Berry desperately screamed for help and managed to wave down a neighbor who helped Berry break down a door and call 911.

The now 27-year-old can be heard on the 911 tape, pleading, "Help me, I'm Amanda Berry. I've been kidnapped and I've been missing for ten years and I'm here. I'm free now."

Police rescued Berry, her daughter, DeJesus and Knight and took them to Metrohealth Medical Center. Police told ABC 5 they were in good health and of sound mind.

While in the hospital, Amanda had a tearful reunion with older sister Beth Serrano and introduced Beth to her daughter. Check out the photo here. Berry disappeared in 2003, a day before her 17th birthday, after calling to let her sister know she was getting a ride home from her job at Burger King.

In 2004, Berry's mom Louwana Miller made an appearance on the "Montel Williams Show" to ask famous psychic Sylvia Browne about her daughter. Browne delivered some devastating news, “She’s not alive, honey. Your daughter’s not the kind who wouldn’t call.” Miller told Cleveland.com that she "lost it" once she got home.

Louwana died of pancreatitis and other ailments in 2006, but friend and Cleveland councilwoman Dona Brady says, "She literally died of a broken heart."

While Amanda and Gina's stories were both widely publicized, little is known about Michelle Knight. The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that family members believed Michelle had left on her own accord when she disappeared in 2002, having just lost a custody battle over her son. As time passed and Knight failed to make contact, her mother became suspicious and began searching for her. Michelle was either 18 or 20 in 2002 (reports vary).

The FBI now has the women in protective custody at a remote location. The three suspects in the case were arrested and are in custody.

John Mc Gowan said...



sha said...

Hobs, I loves ya,...but
first and foremost we do NOT know how many times these women tried to escape....or if they tried and were beaten or tortured for it, or if they watched other women try to escape and those women "disappeared" or were killed....
We just don't know.
I can imagine if I were in that type of situation I would try to placate my abductor until I had a definite chance of escape.
I live in the middle of a city and I can tell you from experience that people just don't call the cops to help their fellow humans out...there's been accidents, gun fire, screaming, and nobody around here calls except us.

Tania Cadogan said...

Dee, I am familiar with kristi abrahams and her missing daughter.

From the get go her statements indicated deception, the pressers were laughable especially the one where she came out with loverboy. Her,wearing hugs black shades and a fistful of tissues covering her lower face, him staring at her shoulder or the ground.

it was difficult though not impossible to read her body language, she whined and wailed yet there were no tears, no redding or puffiness of her face.
She listened to the questions asked by the journos and then whined rather than answer.

They were both caught when they visited the dump site on what would have been Kiesha's birthday carrying flowers (the killer often returns to the scene of crime or dump site)
The mom's admitted manslaughter her plea was refused and she will go to trial.

The little girl was reported missing in August 2010. Her remains were found in bushland in Shalvey, in Sydney's west, in April 2011. Ms Abrahams and her partner, Kiesha's stepfather, Robert Smith were arrested that day.

Smith, who pleaded guilty to her manslaughter in December 2011, is due to be sentenced in the Supreme Court tomorrow

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/mother-kristi-anne-abrahams-admits-to-manslaughter-of-kiesha-weippeart/story-fncynjr2-1226633676321#ixzz2SdcZTIiG

The press conference.

It is worth noting he rarely looks up at the journos or anywhere except down, he drops a pronoun "can't describe" shakes his head no when talking about being found soon and past tense "loved playing" when asked about her.

Both are avoiding the looks of the journos, ione by hiding behind shades and tissues the other by staring at the shoulder of kristi or the ground.

Compare their behavior to that of kristi's father who looks them in the eye and speaks clearly.

As side note kate mccann has flown to portugal. it is near Maddie's birthday and the anniversary of her death ( they insist she was abducted and is still alive. I disagree)
The blog wor;d doesn't know what she is foing there on her own and think it may be to do with their case against Goncalo Amaral for libel ( they wanted to come to an agreement with him, he said no chance)
She has frequently said she feels closer to Maddie there, i would be watching her every move, who she talked to and buggung her calls and emails etc. I suspect maddie is somewhere close by that she can visit surreptitiously

S + K Mum said...

Yeah Hobnob, KMcCann back in Portugal, I'm wondering why too. I hope it is to do with GA case but it's so difficult trying to find out any updates on that. I know he refused to settle with them (YAY!) - I wonder how they will step it up though because it will not be good for them to go to court.......

Exhausted said...

Hobnob has interesting thoughts. Or maybe just similar to mine? ;-)

...the 911 tape, pleading, "Help me, I'm Amanda Berry. I've been kidnapped and I've been missing for ten years and I'm here. I'm free now."

She says, "I've been missing" but... SHE knew where she was. It struck me as an odd statement. But maybe I've just been reading too much at this web site?!

Anonymous said...

Don't be an idiot by applying statement analysis to people who were locked up in a basement for a decade with zero communication with the outside world............

Dee said...

Thanks Hobs...I've heard some of Kiesha's case but I wasn't that familiar with it. I think it was covered by Val at the Hinky Meter back in the day. I'm glad she's getting justice.

The McCanns are guilty as sin. It's strange Kate has gone to Portugal now. The case with GA? Who knows but I agree with S & K Mum - I'd watch her very closely.

Tania Cadogan said...

Hi Sha, i loves me too :)

I agree, at this time we do not know what was and wasn't attempted, we may find out before the trial, during the trial or maybe never.

We pretty much know how we think we would act in a given situation, we have said here we would do this we would never do that, we say such because we have most likely never been in the same situation.
In similar situations to the one being discussed, we say what we will and won't do.
We have the luxury of a stress free environment when we post.

Should the same situation arise logic pretty much goes out the window, if it were a loved one accused of a heinous crime would we do what we said we would do, thinking with our heads or as more likely let emotion lead and feeling with our hearts.

Until we are in that same situation we cannot know how we would act.
Some would panic, others become an emotional mess, a few perhaps would take appropriate action there and then and after all is done, the shock and emotionalism kick in.

In my own case i have always been the logical one, i accepted what was, did what needed doing and moved on.
I have never panicked although i did scream once when a spider round down my face ( i hate spiders)

My younger brother Brett was run over and killed aged 6 weeks approx short of 3 i was about 3 1/2. He died nov 1st and mom amongst many reasons blamed halloween for his death and forbade anything to do with halloween
I remember it happening, the chaos the screaming, what stands out most even after all this time was the driver of the truck that killed him (this was the first and only time he had ever reversed his truck and my brother was retriving a ball by the back wheel having opened out tall back gate) sitting on the 4th step up of our stairs crying his eyes out, he was inconsolable.
I remember looking at him crying and going to him and giving him a big cuddle whilst telling him it was ok, everything would be alright and not to cry.
I don't remember ever crying, i don't remember ever missing him, he had given me a small bead necklace he had made the day before and i guess, to me as long as i had this necklace he wasn't gone.

It hit my mom bad, she blamed my dad for not locking the gate, not long before, her gran had died and i think it was just too much for her.
my younger brother ( now middle) was a yr old ay the time.

Mom tried to suicide and took an overdose, she survived only due to the fact i found her in my bed and couldn't wake her, I remember telling dad and him running up stairs and slapping her face to wake her up. She was in hospital for several weeks. Strangely she never did forgive me for finding her and saving her life.

Even today when i have had to be a first responder to usually messy incidents, i don't buy into the drama i deal with it, i become very bossy, especially if the injury is self inflicted or they are drunk, I give orders and expect them to be followed, i use humor to defuse aggression or when my patient is scared or panicking. One of us has to be cool and calm, my panicking isn't going to help :)

When i have been injured myself i am invariably laughing and joking as well as giving instructions ( otherwise whoever is helping me is either panicking or squeamish)

I know how i react in most situations, in the ones i haven't experienced as yet i figure i will be the same. head not heart and worry about it afterwards :)

Exhausted said...

Way to welome a newbie. Greeting noted.


Malaise said...

“I heard screaming . . . I come outside and I see this girl going nuts trying to get out of her house,” neighbor Charles Ramsey told Cleveland’s WEWS-TV.

Whilst following the links that people have posted, I read that the neighbours said they had ribs? Salsa? With the man who lived in the house. He was a nice guy. He thought the girl screaming was a victim of domestic abuse. ( not sure which link it was. Sorry )

So why say a girl going nuts trying to get out of HER house. Surely if you knew the MALE HOMEOWNER, you knew it was not the "girls" house.

JoAnn said...

Such remarkable insight, but at such a high price. Thank you for trusting the rest of us with your story.

Tania Cadogan said...

Anonymous said...

Don't be an idiot by applying statement analysis to people who were locked up in a basement for a decade with zero communication with the outside world..........

Pray tell, how do you know they were locked in a basement for 10 years with sero communication with the outside world?

This is a statement analysis site and all statements can and will be analysed, both those showing truth, those showing deception, the victim,the perpetrator and even those who have a sense of humor warped or otherwise.

Any and all posts on this site are open for analysis including Peter's, Heather's, Kaaryn's my own and anyone elses.
It makes for good practice as well as letting us know the character of the commentator, their moods. their likes and dislikes, their personality, where they live, their education and life experiences.

In statement analysis there can be no exeptions when searching for the truth and where applicable justice.

S + K Mum said...

Oh Hobnob, that is so sad :( I'm sorry that you lost your brother. Growing up must have been difficult under such circumstances.

Anonymous said...

The guy who heard and saw Berry said "her house". He BBQ'd with the Arias guy, hung around him. Says he never saw the females there but he says it's "her house"?

Anonymous said...

He also says the guy was normal. Allegedly the windows of the house are all boarded up. Normal?

John Mc Gowan said...


Randie said...

Cleveland 911. Police, ambulance, or fire

[Charles Ramsey]
Yeah, hey bro. I'm at 2207 Seymore, West 25th. Hey, check this out. I just came from McDonald's, right. I'm on my porch eatin' my lil' food, right. This broad is tryna break out the fucking house next door to me. So, it's a bunch of people street right now and shit. So we like, what's wrong, what's the problem? She like, this motherfucker done kidnapped me and my daughter and we been in this bitch. She said her name was Linda Berry or some shit. I don't know who the fuck that is.I just moved over here, bruh. I don't ... that, you know what I mean.

Sir, sir, sir, sir, sir. Sir, you have to calm down and slow down. Is she still in the street?

[Charles Ramsey]
Uh, uh, Seymore Ave.

And miss, is she still in the street or where did she go?

[Charles Ramsey]
Yeah, I'm lookin' at her. She right now, she callin' y'all. She on another phone.

Is she black, white, or hispanic?

[Charles Ramsey]
Uh, she white, but the baby look hispanic.

Okay, what is she wearing?

[Charles Ramsey]
Uh, white tanktop, light blue, uh, sweatpants. Like a wifebeater.

Do you know the address next door, that she said she was in?

[Charles Ramsey]
Yeah, 2207, I'm lookin' at it.

Okay, I thought that was your address. So that, that house...

[Charles Ramsey]
No, no. I'm smarter than that, bruh. I'm telling you where the crime was, not my house.

Okay look, sir, we can't talk at the same time. Do you wanna leave your name and number?

[Charles Ramsey]
Charles Ramsey, R-A-M-S-E-Y.

What's the phone number?

[Charles Ramsey]

Are the people she said that did this, are they still in the house?

[Charles Ramsey]
I don't have a fuckin' clue, bruh. I'm just standin' out here with McDonald's.

Can you ask her if she needs an ambulance?

[Charles Ramsey]
You need an ambulance, or what? She need everything. She's, she's in a panic, bruh. I bet she been kidnapped, so put yourself in her shoes.

We'll send the police out. Thank you.

[Charles Ramsey]
There you go!

wildpitch40 said...

I wonder what changed in the house too. Maybe it had to do with the little 6 year old. Maternal ptotection of her child. Stockholm syndrom before.

Eliza said...

Great news... How happy must their families feel! I hope these women live happy, full lives from now on.

Reading about the topic, I found this... "And the parents of Madeleine McCann have said the rescue of the women in Ohio 'reaffirmed' their hope of finding their daughter.

'The discovery of these young women reaffirms our hope of finding Madeleine, which has never diminished,' they said in a statement.

'Their recovery is also further evidence that children are sometimes abducted and kept for long periods.

'So we ask the public to remain vigilant in the ongoing search for Madeleine.

'Our thoughts are with the women in America and their families.'

Come on!! They still seek publicity...

Exhausted said...

I see now that she had access to TV. That would explain her "missing" comment.

S + K Mum said...

I'm so surprised the McCanns jumped on this...(just kidding).

There's at least two things the McCanns can do to help everyone find their daughter

1) Answer the 48 questions 2) Take part in a police led reconstruction

As a British tax payer, I am angered that over £4million has been spent (so far) on British police helping review this case when the parents clearly have not done all they could.

Tania Cadogan said...

Thankyou for your kind thoughts and hugs.

What happens in our past makes us the person we are today.
Sometimes we end up good despite the past or rather, in spite of the past, other times we end up bad because of the past or in spite of the past.

I am who i am, i am what i am today because of my past, my life experiences, despite my mom's hatred.
I was her carer for 10 years till she had 2 strokes and died.

I never felt hatred or anger towards her, she was who she was because of her childhood and life experiences, i felt disappoinment and sympathy for her even when she was being a pain in the butt which was most of the time.

This is why i show respect for my elders regardless, i help others, i listen, i smile, i am free with compliments and hugs.
I do not always know what another is going through, i don't know if they feel sad or alone, i do not have to walk in their shoes or live their life.

All too often we ignore those who areound is, we don't talk or even email or text, i waddle round town with mom ( my mate's mom whom i have adopted ) watching the world go by, seeing everyone looking down at their cell phones each in their own little world even when they are with friends.

These are the people i acknowledge, i say hi to or alright? in passing.
These are the people i strike up a conversation with when on the bus or a bench.
A simple hello or how you doing? can light up their life, make them feel wanted, no longer alone, a hug always goes down well especially for those with no one.
I love watching smiles and hugs spread, the smile on someones face after i complimented them.

I love making people feel better about themselves, if they feel good about themselves they can feel good about others.
I make them feel good i feel good.

If all else fails my inner child will be releasedand she will make them smile despite themselves.

Next time you go shopping smile at people, compliment someone on their hair, their perfume, their clothes, let someone go in front of you in a queue, strike up a conversation with someone, smile at a cop or thank them for doing what they do. talk to those who are serving you ask how they are. it is the little things that go a long way to making the world a better place :)

Hugs and smooches all round xx

rkg said...

#1) Hobs: you have my deepest sympathy. Even though years ago, what a heartbreaking thing your family suffered, and still suffers. Sharing such a part of your life with readers here - we should all feel humbled. Thank you.

#2) Of the rescuer: Mr. Ramsey is a hero. The 911 transcript was the most "language" I've been exposed to in a very long time (our home and lifestyle is 100% G-PG media, including what my husband and I watch/read). Nevertheless, his compassion and concern for these young ladies is very obvious, and he seems extra forceful (extra aggressive language), I think, because of his clear desire to get these women the help they obviously need, and to get it to them fast.

Language or no language, this world needs more Good Samaritans like Mr. Ramsey, who do not just pass by on the other side, but, not only stop and help, but ensure continuing care is arranged and see the victim all the way to safety. Mr. Ramsey didn't just let the women call for help; he picked up the phone and called, too, insisting and ensuring that help was on the way. Good man, he is.

Unknown said...

The 911 operator was terrible. Not only did he seem rude, but he acted as if he were trying to get her off the phone ("just talk to the officers when they get there"), and can you imagine what she thought when the 911 operator told her that they'd send someone when they got a car free? Waiting 10 years for help and now you get put in the back of the line for a free car? Then, after she kept on talking to the operator he finally thinks to ask her who the perp is....geez.

Exhausted said...


A transcript of the 911 call placed Monday by a woman missing since 2003, when she was 16.
Caller: Help me. I'm Amanda Berry.
Dispatcher: You need police, fire, ambulance?
Caller: I need police.
Dispatcher: OK, and what's going on there?
Caller: I've been kidnapped and I've been missing for 10 years, and I'm, I'm here, I'm free now.
Dispatcher: OK, and what's your address?
Caller: 2207 Seymour Avenue.
Dispatcher: 2207 Seymour. Looks like you're calling me from 2210.
Caller: Huh?
Dispatcher: Looks like you're calling me from 2210.
Caller: I can't hear you.
Dispatcher: Looks like you're calling me from 2210 Seymour.
Caller: I'm across the street; I'm using the phone.
Dispatcher: OK, stay there with those neighbors. Talk to police when they get there.
Caller: (Crying)
Dispatcher: OK, talk to police when they get there.
Caller: OK. Hello?
Dispatcher: OK, talk to the police when they get there.
Caller: OK (unintelligible).
Dispatcher: We're going to send them as soon as we get a car open.
Caller: No, I need them now before he gets back.
Dispatcher: All right; we're sending them, OK?
Caller: OK, I mean, like ...
Dispatcher: Who's the guy you're trying -- who's the guy who went out?
Caller: Um, his name is Ariel Castro.
Dispatcher: OK. How old is he?
Caller: He's like 52.
Dispatcher: And, uh -
Caller: I'm Amanda Berry. I've been on the news for the last 10 years.
Dispatcher: I got, I got that, dear. (Unintelligible) And, you say, what was his name again?
Caller: Uh, Ariel Castro.
Dispatcher: And is he white, black or Hispanic?
Caller: Uh, Hispanic.
Dispatcher: What's he wearing?
Caller (agitated): I don't know, 'cause he's not here right now. That's why I ran away.
Dispatcher: When he left, what was he wearing?
Caller: Who knows (unintelligible).
Dispatcher: The police are on their way; talk to them when they get there.
Caller: Huh? I - OK.
Dispatcher: I told you they're on their way; talk to them when they get there, OK.
Caller: All right, OK. Bye.

JoAnn said...

Local Cleveland news reports that neighbors saw Ariel Castro with the 6 year old child, and that she called him "Dad." There is also a report that the little girl called Castro's mother "Grandma." So how did the suspect explain this child to his family, and how many people were aware that he was keeping these women imprisoned? Conspiracy of silence?

patrice said...

I love the pic you chose to put up here. This is a happy pic and brings tears to my eyes.
Anyhow, there are a lot of demented people in this world- we see it all the time. I do await the ladies telling us what happened and how they survived their ordeals. I wish them lots of help in dealing with anything that they must deal with.
It's all well and good that some think there is an itch that needs scratched but please remember Jaycee and the years she endured with a madman and a madwoman. Don't be so quick to judge and think that " they could have escaped etc" - We don't know what went on inside the house or how the ladies got there yet. Be happy that they are alive and free.

patrice said...

The man and litte girl were in the park and someone asked him who the little girl was...and he explained the little girl was his girlfriends' daughter.

dadgum said...

That's why 'gum is always careful to never, ever, ever post when angry. Every single morning I get up, shower, and brush my teeth. After telling everyone how much I love, love, love them..I say good bye, shut the door, and get in the car. Make three stops on my way to work, then I work, and come home. We eat, I go to bed..hardly giving a thought to statement analysis. That's my story.

(((hugs hobs)))

Lori said...

Oh for the love of heaven! I was on here on 5/1 and everyone was all grumpy and griping about trolls and such.
I for one like to hear the different opionions and like to hear about SA. I don't know you Hob but have no problem reading your theory or SA.
Geez, don't even know why I am writing this, except I want to read more SA without everyone taking everything personally.

Please people writing the SA, keep it up, it's why I come here (even tho I'm not that good at it yet I like to learn and hope for justice)
I think SA is fascinating, I have used it at work and found deception, I have even looked at what I have said myself with questions.
Smiles everyone, Lori

dadgum said...

Lori..I often wonder if a good number of the 'removed by author' posts are removed after they have had occasion to SA their own words. You'll find yourself wording things carefully, lol..

Statement Student said...

You've nicknamed your intuition? That's really cute, just not here. Here you are so out of line, you're masking victim blaming with a question about reality changing. You are assuming they never tried to escape before and below you say you suspect you'd know how you'd be in this situation. Humility, Hobs! I'm one of your biggest fans, but knowing what I know and have been through, I see right through it.

Lori said...


I thought about deleting it almost as soon as I put it up. I think I am chicken especially when
I know there are a bunch of really smart people looking at everything I write.

I also just did exactly what I was griping about.

more humble than a few minutes earlier, Lori

Anonymous said...

Pray tell, how do you know they were locked in a basement for 10 years with sero communication with the outside world?

You're a lying mentally ill piece of shit who should be executed


Lori said...

I was surprised that the family of the captors seems to be aware of the child.
It is hard to keep a secret, with 3 people keeping a secret with multiple kidnap victims and births, I think there is a possiblity we will learn of times they came close to getting caught. I really want to know more about the family of the kidnappers and any role they might have played in this.
I don't know what the max penalty is for kidnapping and torture is, but it should be right up there with murder.

Lori said...

ps can anyone tell me if, removed by author, is Peter removing the post or of the original poster removing it.

What a Day! said...

Haha, dadgum, your ever single day story is good.

Lori, Removed by author means the original poster removed it. When Peter or one of his helpers removes them, there is nothing saying they were removed, they just disappear.

~ABC said...

Who are the people that keep posting comments and just MUST insult and name call. Ack! Sometimes it really gets on my last nerve and makes reading the comments unpleasant. Dang!! I am ranting and I hope it will be excused.
Please also excuse me for not taking the time to check punctuation and grammar...

Also, all the people who are saying, we just don't know this or that, regarding Hobs questions, well, exactly! We don't know which is why Hobs is asking. To be offended by a question, any question, in the context of SA pretty much excludes one from ever doing SA well.

Lori said...

I agree. I especially agree with your last sentence. I was trying to say something like that, you just said it better.

dadgum said...

for your evening amusement..

Red Ryder said...

Yes! Missing kids are found alive years later. I was in St.Louis when Shawn Hornbeck was found after 5 years (2007) along with Ben Ownby. It seemed like a miracle!
So many times the missing ends with remains scattered in an ugly field. As horrific as this situation has been and will continue to be as they struggle through, they ladies are Survivors and I rejoice for them and their families.
Hobs, I'm sorry for your loss. You are right too that these things, good and ill, form our beings. The loss of a sibling is huge, even one that was lost before your own birth, how much more so after. It alters the parents, the children.I imagine these three women"s families were so deeply affected! To get the call out of the blue that she is here!!!!!

~ABC said...

Hi Lori

Thanks and you're welcome. :)

and Dadgum thank you! I needed that laugh. My goodness! Were they sitting right beside one another?

dadgum said...

this one is complete with diagrams..lolol

Lis said...

Remember that we are supposed to begin by believing the speaker and following what they are saying, not with suspicion already in mind. We are supposed to look for the expected and then the unexpected will jump out.

Keep in mind that flagged words/phrases are just indicators of *sensitivity*- it's not always about deception. There can be valid reasons for sensitivity (like you just found out you've been living next door to a freak who keeps victims locked in his basement).

It's not uncommon for a person to switch to present tense when recounting an emotional or dramatic thing that has happened. We have to take into account the person's normal way of speaking and watch for patterns. Does the person only switch tenses when one certain thing comes up? Does it make sense in regard to the statement as a whole?

The only statement I have come across so far that I feel is iffy is the one from the uncle, who stressed how wonderful his family is. I will be interested to see just how many of this extended family knew what was happening. Or should have known. Between the uncle and the son who wrote the article, I am suspicious. Not to mention the 3 brothers all being in on it. Maybe the whole extended family are a bunch of sick freaks.

Given how desperate Berry was to escape during this window of opportunity, I cannot question her desire to escape.

When the victims speak, then I will analyze their statements dispassionately.

When doctors say the victims are in "fair" condition, that does not mean they are great. It just means their vital signs are stable. I read that one woman has hearing loss from being hit in the head. Jaycee Dugard had children in captivity- it makes the victim even more of a prisoner.

newbie said...

Peter = will you analyze the son Anthony's (reporter for an NBC affiliate) journalism on the missing girls? Please???

Shelley said...

I have not read every response do may be repeating..

But I read that they were chained down in the basement

I heard that they were very rarely alone so screwing would have been risky

A d Michelle the oldest was labeled a run away by police since she was also an adult when she disappeared,

Anonymous said...

No one's analyzing Hob's account of *his* childhood experience? I'm surprised.

I am sorry that many of us can even slightly relate to the victim mentality, the desperation you slip into, the feelings that nothing matters and nothing can change, so why bother? The desperation that you've tried within your power, or what you thought was within your power, to get out, you willed change to happen to be a different person, for them to go away, for them to be a different person, and sometimes you've even dared to try to escape the horrendousness of it all. Other times you just sink into what you know as your existence, your reality, and you cry inside when you hear people who are so sure of how they...or you...should or could have done things differently. It's like being abused again, pelted with cold, hard stones and you realize, no one does understand or really care beyond their own judgment.

Red Ryder said...

O/T anybody read the recent interview w/ Amanda Knox? Wow! So many excellent SA examples. The last quote from the article on her by CNN (sorry can't link on my phone)
"I really want this to be behind me. I need this. I don't know how long I can hold it all together. I don't know how long I can defend myself."
Google , CNN Amanda Knox: Sometimes I can't stop crying.
Is it possible the guilt is weighing on her? Or is it just the hassle of all who don't believe her, the threat of new trial in Italy and apparently she has had some local death threats. Guess some people want to take the law in their own hands! I hope they don't , better to leave it to the courts and God, in the end justice will be served~ just may not seem as swift as I'd like sometimes.

Blaze said...

Praise the Lord they have been rescued!

equinox said...

Thoughts on Fears..

1) They were aware that a fourth woman had seemingly vanished, they would be aware that they could easily share the same fate. No one knew where these women were, or even if they were still alive. Ater enough time had passed they too would lose hope of being found. They would know they could also simply disappear and even the other two women wouldn't know what had happened to them. That they would turn to protecting each other instead of attempting escape seems logical to me in this circumstance.

2) There are rumors that there were other pregnancies and that the women were beaten until they miscarried. This would make them even more aware of their own vulnerability. Even a critical medical incident could kill them as their captors would not get medical help for them. Appeasement, always appeasement.

3) They were imprisoned only miles from their family and loved ones. Threats of harm to them could have added to their intimidation. "Scream and I will kill your mother."

4) There were three men holding them captive. The risk of being caught attempting escape could have been ever-present. The boarded windows, the basement dungeon, the chains on the ceiling, the daily check-in by Ariel Castro, even so far as parking his bus in the driveway to quickly confirm they were still imprisoned. These details don't seem to indicate these girls were ever fully trusted as indoctrinated to their capture.

5) Knowing that without pretending to be cooperative, at some point, when their desirability or capacity to act as sex slaves or what-have-you diminished, they would be aware that their fate was sealed. Their captors would never let them live, free. The despair and terror of knowing there was a fixed and ultimate outcome would require unimaginable psychological compensation.

The six year old child may have begun to catch the eye of the kidnappers. A surge of maternal protective instinct could have overwhelmed all these fears to bring Amanda Berry to the point of risking all to achieve an escape.

She deserves the title "Hero" for so bravely making her attempt at escape and bringing all the others with her in the end. Brava!

Katprint said...

John's post at May 7, 2013 at 4:16 PM mentions:

"In 2004, Berry's mom Louwana Miller made an appearance on the "Montel Williams Show" to ask famous psychic Sylvia Browne about her daughter. Browne delivered some devastating news, “She’s not alive, honey. Your daughter’s not the kind who wouldn’t call.” Miller told Cleveland.com that she "lost it" once she got home.


"Psychic Who Said Amanda Berry Was Dead Silent After Berry Is Found Alive

A year after Amanda Berry disappeared in Cleveland, her mother appeared on "The Montel Williams Show" to speak to a psychic about what happened to her daughter.

Psychic Sylvia Browne, who has made a career of televised psychic readings, told Louwanna Miller on a 2004 episode of the show that her daughter was dead, causing Miller to break down in tears on the show's set.

"She's not alive, honey," Browne told Miller on the show, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper. "Your daughter's not the kind who wouldn't call."

Miller told the newspaper that she believed "98 percent" in what Browne told her. Miller died a year later from heart failure.

On Monday, Berry was found alive after she broke free from a home in Cleveland where she says she has been kept for the past decade.

Browne did not return phone calls seeking comment today by ABC News. The Montel Williams show, through syndicator CBS, also did not return calls for comment. The show no longer airs new episodes.

It's not the first time that Browne, and other psychics, have come under fire for their involvement in law enforcement cases.

In 2003, Browne incorrectly told the parents of missing teen Shawn Hornbeck that their son was dead, and his body could be found somewhere near "two jagged boulders," according to her premonition.

Nearly four years later, Hornbeck was found alive, and Browne was widely criticized in the media for causing the Hornbecks additional grief.

A website called "Stop Sylvia Browne," dedicated to cataloguing Browne's purported failures at prediction, sprang up in 2006.

Last year, Dwayne Baker told ABC News that after his son went missing in 2007, he was flooded with calls from psychics offering potential leads into the whereabouts of Travis Baker.

"It's very hard,' Dwayne Baker said. "I went through everything. My son was missing for two years, two months and 12 days. "Psychics called me. I even received a DVD in the mail that a guy claimed he could talk to the dead and this was Travis' voice, with no return address. I don't understand why people would want to do that."

"The psychics…" said Baker, 45, before pausing to let out a long sigh. "I hate to say how many of those called me and said they knew where Travis was. My mother and wife went to one and paid them $100."

Travis Baker's remains were located in 2009.

Brad Garret, a former special agent with the FBI and ABC News consultant said that alleged tips from psychics rarely help solve a case.

"As far as finding a victim, finding remains, finding evidence or in any way helping to solve the case, it's never been my experience," he said. "So, it's really a disservice to victims."

"We've never had a psychic lead that turns out to be correct," said Lt. Dave Parker, of the Anchorage, Alaska, police department, after 18-year-old Samantha Koenig went missing in February, 2012.

Today, Brown faced backlash on social media for her incorrect prediction about Amanda Berry. It is unclear whether she has helped to solve a crime with her psychic predictions.

"Psychics make me sick. Here's an example: Sylvia Browne told Amanda Berry's Mum (now dead) her daughter was dead," wrote Twitter user Chris McBriarty."


John Mc Gowan said...

Timeline Of Events In Cleveland
Updated: 12:46pm UK, Tuesday 07 May 2013

Key dates in the years since the first woman went missing in Cleveland more than 10 years ago.

:: August 23, 2002: Michele Knight, who was around 20 at the time of her disappearance, was last seen at a cousin's house.

:: April 21, 2003: Amanda Berry, 16, went missing after phoning her sister to say she was getting a lift home from her job at a Burger King.

:: April 2, 2004: Gina DeJesus, 14, vanished while she was walking home from school.

:: June 2004: Authorities reportedly offering $20,000 reward to help find Ms DeJesus and Ms Berry. Ms Knight is classed as a runaway.

:: April 2005: Ms Berry's mother Louwanna Miller leads a march starting from the place where the girl was last seen to raise awareness of her disappearance, The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports.

:: March 2006: Ms Miller, aged 44, dies of a "broken heart", according to family friend Dona Brady.

:: September 2006: Police acting on a tip tear up the concrete floor of a garage and used a cadaver dog to search unsuccessfully for Ms DeJesus' body.

:: 2006: Two men arrested for questioning in the disappearance of Ms DeJesus were released from the city jail after officers failed to find her body during a search of their house.

:: September 2009: Wisconsin investigators rule out the possibility that a body found in a field there in 2008 might be that of Ms Berry.

:: July 2012: An empty plot in West Side, Cleveland, was searched for 18 hours by police acting on a tip from an incarcerated killer.

:: January 2013: Prison inmate Robert Wolford was jailed for four-and-a-half years after admitting he provided a false burial tip in the disappearance of Ms Berry.

:: April 2013: A vigil is held to mark the ninth anniversary of Ms DeJesus' disappearance.

:: May 6, 2013: The three women are freed from a house in Seymour Street, Cleveland, Ohio, after Ms Berry managed to raise the alarm.


John Mc Gowan said...

Charles Ramsey Interview, Cleveland Man That Found Amanda Berry.


equinox said...

So if Robert Wolferd has been sent to jail for four and a half years for providing a false tip, why can't the same thing be done to Sylvia Brown?

Anonymous said...

why no knox coverage???????????????

rkg said...

Whoa, equinox. That's a VERY GOOD POINT.

Anonymous said...

equinox, I agree with you. Plus they probably tried to escape already on a few occasions and got punished for it. Plus they must have felt horrible about themselves after being treated like that, being chained, abused for so long time, that must have taken all their courage away little by little, day by day. Something probably happened that alarmed Amanda (most likely about her daughter), or/and this might have been the very first day she felt it is safe enough to try it.

There was an article speaking about a few years ago a neighbor reported a naked woman crawling in the backyard of that house, and police was called about that, but nothing happened, they could not go in, doors were locked, etc. Might be a rumor I don't know, but it is possible they tried to escape several times.

God bless them, and help them to heal.

S + K Mum said...

If LE were sent to that address because of reports, that is very scary. How many people may be reporting things and nothing really gets done about it?

A previous neighbour, who we didn't get along with, reported a 'domestic' coming from my home. I was out with friends, my husband was watching football (getting carried away!), the police arrived, spoke to my husband for 10 minutes then left. They didn't check the house or anything! It was an ongoing situation with the neighbour so they realised what the neighbour was up to but I was still annoyed at the police for not checking the house or garden for me.

John Mc Gowan said...

Ohio Cops Search For Fourth Missing Girl.

The family of Ashley Summers are hoping the rescue of three women from a Cleveland house could mean new leads in the hunt for her.


The following year FBI agents suspected a possible connection between the disappearance of Ms Summers and those of Ms Berry and Ms DeJesus.

Investigators thought all three girls had been kidnapped by the same man, then-FBI spokesman Scott Wilson said.

The names Berry, DeJesus and Ashley then came up in a Cleveland police training session in August 2010. Instructor George Kwan held up their photographs after his lecture about human trafficking.

Amanda Berry (L) and Gina DeJesus
"What do they have in common?" he said. "They are all attractive, they are all between the ages of 14 and 17 and they are all gone."

Ashley's physical appearance and the proximity of her home to the other disappearances meant investigators had to suspect the cases were linked, FBI agent and spokeswoman Vicki Anderson said.

And investigators continue to hold onto those suspicions as they search and gather evidence at the home in Seymore Avenue.

"We are keeping Ashley in our thoughts as we go every step of the way," Ms Anderson said.

"Whether it is something we find at the house, or someone seeing the stories remembers something, we continue our search for Ashley."

Investigators will speak to the three discovered women to see if they know anything about Ms Summers' disappearance, said Ms Anderson.


ima.grandma said...

I agree with Anonymous 9:00 AM. We have all been through tragedies in our lifetime.

Anonymous said...

Amanda Berry said "I've been kidnapped, and I've been missing for 10 years," the 27-year-old woman said on the call, which was made on Monday. "And I'm here. I'm free now."

Could it be that she said "I've been kidnapped" instead of "I was kidnapped" because she considered herself kidnapped they entire 10 years?

Anonymous said...

It is pathetic when these desperately tragic people turn too and believe in a psychic when they are looking for any help or hope at all in finding their missing loved ones.

I agree, Sylvia Browne the so-called psychic should be prosecuted. Because of her the one mother, Mrs. Miller, gave up and died of debilitating illneses caused by the nightmare strees of Sylvia Browne destroying all hope for finding her daughter when she told Mrs. Miller on the Arsenio Hall Show that her daughter was dead. There are witnesses that this woman died of a broken heart.

Now the psychic hides, won't explain herself and won't return calls. If a warrant were issued for her arrest for the slow lingering murder of Mrs. Miller I'll bet she could speak up then.

BUT, is there even such a law that might reign in these psychics and stop them once and for all from spewing their madness that destroys the lives of others? If there isn't, there ought to be. Even if nothing else, prosecution for fraud might be a good first step.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 9:46, there is nothing wrong with the way Amanda Berry described her ordeal of having been kidnapped and held in a abondage of hell for the past ten years so why try to make something out of it?

When people are frantic and desperate they aren't thinking about how you might percieve the words they use to get help. Their only goal is to get help and get out of there fast, and NOT how someone else might twist their words all around and make them look guilty for their own circumstances.

C5H11ONO said...

...the 911 tape, pleading,

"Help me, I'm Amanda Berry.

I've been kidnapped and I've been missing for ten years and I'm here.

I'm free now."

Notice the pronouns and the lack of qualifiers. I think the "and" between kidnapped and missing and being here is because so much has happened in between each stage, and that is why she skipped over the details. Very simple and to the point.

Anonymous said...

Excellent post C5H. You nailed it. No qualifiers, no dropped pronouns. Precise, quickly,
and to the point. No need to say more.

Tania Cadogan said...

Three women abducted about a decade ago and held captive in a house were restrained with ropes and chains, a police chief has said.

The physical condition of Michelle Knight, Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus, rescued in Cleveland, Ohio on Monday, was "very good considering the circumstances", Michael McGrath claimed.

He said: "We have confirmation they were bound and there were chains and ropes in the hall."

Mr McGrath also said they had been allowed out of the house "very rarely", adding: "They were released out in the backyard once in a while I believe."

Police have been searching the property and said no human remains have been found at the house. Officers had reportedly been looking for "possible aborted babies"

Sources told WKYC that as many as five pregnancies occurred in the house. They were also told their captors would beat the pregnant girls and that the babies did not survive.

Ariel Castro, 52, who owned and lived at the property, and his two brothers Pedro, 54, and Onil, 50, are now in custody after being arrested on suspicion of holding the women captive.

Police say they intend to charge the men and they could appear in court as early as today.

Mr McGrath says they "are talking" but he would not say if they have confessed.

He also told NBC he was "absolutely" sure police did everything they could to find the women over the years and he disputed claims by neighbours that officers had been called to the house before for suspicious circumstances.

It comes as Ariel Castro had apparently comforted the mother of Miss DeJesus at a candlelight vigil about a year ago.

He was believed to be friends with the girl's father and reportedly helped in the search for Miss DeJesus.

He handed out fliers after she vanished and performed music at a fundraiser held in her honour, it is claimed.

Miss Knight, now 32, Miss Berry, 27, and Miss DeJesus, 23, were abducted separately in the Ohio city in 2002, 2003 and 2004 when they were 20, 16 and 14 respectively.

The three women were rescued after a frantic 911 call by Miss Berry, who escaped, led police to Castro's run-down property, where authorities say the trio had been held captive since their teens or early 20s.

Police are investigating the handling of the call, saying: "While the call-taker complied with policies and procedures which enabled a very fast response by police, we have noted some concerns which will be the focus of our review."

Officers said the concerns included "the call-taker's failure to remain on the line with Miss Berry until police arrived on scene", adding: "Please be assured that this matter will be investigated, and if necessary, appropriate corrective action taken."

It has also emerged that as police were digging for Miss Berry in an empty lot in the city in July 2012, Pedro, sitting on some steps, said: "That's a waste of money.

Antony Quiros said he was at the vigil for Miss DeJesus about a year ago and saw Ariel Castro comforting her mother.

Ariel Castro was friends with the missing girl's father and helped search for her after she disappeared, said Khalid Samad, a friend of the family.

"When we went out to look for Gina, he helped pass out fliers," said Mr Samad, a community activist.

Tania Cadogan said...

Meanwhile, Miss Berry has spoken to her family for the first time since she disappeared

Her grandmother, Fern Gentry, told her on the telephone: "I’m glad to have you back."

"I'm glad to be back," Miss Berry said.

Miss Gentry added: "I thought you were gone."

"Nope, I'm here", Miss Berry continued.

Miss Berry told her grandmother that the girl in a hospital photo was her daughter, six-year-old Jocelyn. Police said they believe one of the suspects is the girl’s father.

Miss Berry's father Johnny Berry said: "I didn’t know what to say. Best thing that ever happened to me. Best feeling I’ve ever had."

Her cousin Crystal Milton said the news that she was alive was a real shock. "Just screaming and crying; just all kids of emotions at once," Miss Milton said.


QChick said...

Anon at 10:22 May 8

When Amanda used "I have been kidnapped.." vs 'I was kidnapped" indicates that the kidnapping is in her present and not a past event. She was still in the "kidnapped" situation. Even on the phone she was not entirely free of her situation until the police removed her physically from the scene.
I dont think anon at 9:46 was criticizing Amanda but pointing out that Amanda was verbalizing that she still felt herself to be in a kidnapped state, an ongoing situation as opposed to something that happened 10 yrs earlier.

ima.grandma said...

Hobnob said:
Mr McGrath also said they had been allowed out of the house "very rarely", adding: "They were released out in the backyard once in a while I believe."

Would you mind explaining the significance of bolding the above sentence? Thank you.

Anonymous said...

The man that helped rescue the women that was talking on television a lot was, indeed, American, and "English" is, indeed, his first language. He just has a different vernacular.

Anonymous said...

QChick said...

Anon at 10:22 May 8

When Amanda used "I have been kidnapped.." vs 'I was kidnapped" indicates that the kidnapping is in her present and not a past event.

QChick, I asked the question at 9:46 AM if it was because she considered herself kidnapped the entire 10 years. Thank you for explaining that the kidnapping was still in her present.
That's close to what I was thinking but, for her, it had not yet ended still. I wonder how long it will take for her and them to realize it's no longer their present? I'm still new to SA so I wanted to know using SA principles with the verb tense. Thank you again.

Trigger said...

Kidnapped, raped, and imprisoned for 10 years. This is horrible.

They were held as captive sex slaves without medical, dental, or educational care.

I hope that these men were not government approved immigrants who saw an opportunity that they thought was too good to pass up.

These three men should be made to pay reparations to compensate these women for all those years of captivity.

Unknown said...

Charles Ramsey is the man, and I loved it when he was on the news saying he got an IDIOT for a 911 operator and when the reporter asked him what he meant, he said "MORON". Those 911 operators were just AWFUL, especially the one that talked to Amanda.
I don't care if Charles was using present tense, bad grammar or whatever anyone wants to call it, I could clearly understand him, and I believed he was telling the truth.

John Mc Gowan said...

Live Stream: Live: Kidnap Victim Back With Family.


Pineapple said...

Anons slamming on HobNob...


The regulars don't want to hear it (reported in the negative, meaning it's sensitive.) I really don't want to hear it. (first person singular, qualifier, extra sensitive)

It has no place here.

I agree that victims should be allowed their rights, such as privacy and discretion. I hope their past is kept secret. We don't need nor do we deserve to know. I hope we won't analyze their statements. This, however, is beside the point. Hobs is entitled to her opinion, even though I disagree with it.

Stop being so abusive, please, or take it somewhere else.

Tania Cadogan said...

My bolded senstence was in response to Anonymous said...

Don't be an idiot by applying statement analysis to people who were locked up in a basement for a decade with zero communication with the outside world............

May 7, 2013 at 4:50 PM

I still can't get my head around the fact his family seemed to be happy to have rooms padlocked where they could not enter.

If i went to a family member's home and they had a padlocked door i would be asking why the door needed to be padlocked. If there was a missing person report i would be demanding the door be opened to let me investigate.
If a door that had been previously unlocked/unpadlocked suddenly was locked/padlocked and no one except the family member was allowed access and there was a missing person they would be given 2 choices, either open the door willingly or i call the cops and let them deal with it ( i would of course be asking questions as to why etc the door was padlocked etc.

It seems now we are getting to the facts of the story, who knew what and what was and wasn't done.

Anonymous said...

YOU don't know what the he!! you would do, Hobnob!

Dee said...

Anonymous said...
YOU don't know what the he!! you would do, Hobnob!


OK, please stop the snarkiness.
How do you know what Hobnob would or wouldn't do? I don't personally know Hobs so I can't opine on what she would do. Maybe she knows herself well enough to know what she would do. Maybe shes a take charge kind of person. Maybe she's forceful and outspoken. Maybe she's inquisitive and or nosy and would want to know what's behind that padlocked door, where those weird sounds are coming from. You're bickering just to bicker, it has no point.

sha said...


Survivors sharing their stories on why they "didn't escape earlier".

Unknown said...

Would some people still be upset if Hobs had said "i'd like to ask them if they'd tried to escape before" rather than frame that question as if she knew they hadn't tried? GIVE HOBS A BREAK! Hobbsy has always been a kind caring person at this site, and we all have the right to bring up things we have questions about or voice our opinions.

Hobs, I appreciate your ability to voice what you're thinking, sometimes it can be hard. I even catch hell from family members when I say things about not believing people on the news, or questioning the validity of a report, even when later on it was proved that I had good reason to question.

I don't see any reason for name calling, it's childish (or should we say kiddish here?)

Lori said...

I had a friend who locked a door keeping things private and rearranged her computer away from an entrance as she was felt someone might see what she was doing on the computer, her need to hide things and the way she acted made me wonder what was up (as far as I knew we were both moms with no great secrets)
I would also wonder about a family locking doors that had never been locked. I think we will learn more about the extended family of the kidnappers. I posted earlier I thought it was strange that 3 people were able to keep a secret about multiple victims. It is very hard for one person to keep a secret.
I am sadly thinking there are going to be more victims that we don't know about yet.

Lemon said...

Hobs asking questions…QUESTIONS and snarkapotamus Anons howl and gnash their fangs like she's murdered someone. Those crying about 'regulars' and 'closed groups' - get over yourselves, this isn't facebook. I repeat, this isn't facebook.

Take your tantrums back there, or learn how to act like adults, not 12 year olds. It seems tolerance and don't judge me! only applies to your nasty namecalling and tantrums, nots Hob's posts. Grow up or move on.

Lemon said...

And by the way, anyone who knows anything about Statement Analysis could conclude with great certainty that the post by Pineapple was not Hobs "in disguise".
Remember, um, Statement Analysis? Or should I say Comprende, Anne?

One might think this is, however, what Anonymous does, since she is so concerned with it.

Anonymous said...

Okay. I had a separate built-in concealed room in my home with double locks, a full sized door entrance, a separate security system attached and a huge painting covering the door. This was my 6 x 10 x 8 walk-in safe. Are you telling me you would come charging into my home like a big bully and think you could gain entrance through that door/painting that was just behind my desk?

I think you'd find your nosy butt being hauled out by the local PO who received the silent signal the second you touched that door or the painting it was concealed behind. Point being; you can't go snooping around someones' home breaking down doors and snooping around just because you are nosy and want too.

Anonymous said...

Who is Anne, bitter Lemon?

Anonymous said...

Talk about victiming blaming wow.hobnob have you been confined against your will,raped and beaten by someone at any point in your life?so how would you know how you would react in the same situation.they were children when this happened and should not be judged by what you think they should have done.they survived and escaped that should be all that matters.police didn't find them sooner cause they don't care about poor people in this country.

Tania Cadogan said...

My childhood was far from perfect, There are things which have happened in my life i have kept silent about, i have come to terms with them, accepted i cannot change what was, i can however change what will be, what may come.

The woman i am today is a result of my life up to this moment.
I know pretty much how i would act in most situations, logic takes over rather than emotion.
my head rules my heart.
I do not suffer fools gladly and will let them know (how else can someone learn if not corrected or educated?)
I am also in touch with my inner childa and let her out to play often. (i'm either living the childhood i never had due to being a nerd and geek or i am having my second childhood early so i can enjoy it)

I am who i am, you can take me as i am or ignore me, it is your choice.
Bear in mind though, ignore also means not acknowledging the ignoree or discussing them.

have a nice day :)

Anonymous said...

There was a case in my area a few years back where a 9 or 10 year old girl went missing, and a week or so later a man living up the street slaughtered his family--wife and 4 or 5 children, the youngest was an infant. His wife had confronted him about the missing girl & threatened to go to the police. He later led the police to the missing girl's body.

You really going to confront the neighborhood psychopath, Hobnob? Or was Ariel Castro's son or ex-wife supposed to do that? Or one of the three women?

ima.grandma said...

I am not trying to be mean Hobnob but I can remember my own grandma telling me something similar.

Those who can’t suffer fools gladly become more foolish themselves. They will shut themselves off from what they can learn from others.

Pineapple said...

Did someone say I was hobnob? I'm not, and I've been pineapple on here for about a year.

As to doing SA on my post, might not do you any good as I was being both stern and silly on purpose. Silly to take down the sternness, but seriously, anons, STFU. Move on.

Anonymous said...

You did not answer the question in my post at 519 pm so I won't assume you are responding to mei never post here or anywhere else,but I had to in response to your posts.
Let me make it simple and clear,if you have never been held against your will,raped or beaten you have no right to judge these women who would have been children when they were abducted and raped and beaten for 10 years. So stop judging and blaming the victims.

ima.grandma said...

My heart breaks for the young girls they were when first abducted. I have a 13 year old granddaughter, I am with her every day and I see her trying to figure life out, it's an amazing time of her life. To imagine the 14 year old little girl spending her adolescence with these monsters is unthinkable.

Anonymous said...

I was only referring to hobnob and her post about why didn't they try to escape. Imagine someone did rape you and everyone asked you why didn't youi stop it or fight back or run away? And you start to think you should have done something anything to stop it so9 its my fault? It is the rapist fault not mine.

Anonymous said...

I was only referring to hobnob and her post about why didn't they try to escape. Imagine someone did rape you and everyone asked you why didn't you stop it or fight back or run away? And you start to think you should have done something anything to stop it so its my fault? I can not would of could of should of myself. I am a survivor.that is all that matters. Anonymous posts at 519 and 655.

Anonymous said...

Was reading somewhere that the house was in foreclosure due to unpaid taxes and that he had left a suicide note. Perhaps fear of him taking them with him when he killed himself caused enough desperation for the mother to act.

They may have stayed because there was always a glimmer of hope they would survive, but perhaps the financial pressures gave them a very short time frame to escape or face certain death. The clock may have been ticking.

Would he burn the house down with them inside? Perhaps the motherly instinct kicked in and gave this particular woman the motivation to FINALLY escape. The other women only had to cope with the thought of themselves dying, but the mother had more to think about.

That is the only thing I can think that may answer some of Hobnobs questions as to why now.

Anonymous said...

OOPS after following links back to original news report, I found that the suicide note was written "several years ago". So that perhaps isn't the explanation after all. Sorry Annon 9:00


Anonymous said...


"They also show that Castro, 52, owned the home at 2207 Seymour Ave. where the women were found, but that the house was in foreclosure because Castro owed thousands in real estate taxes."

Perhaps foreclosure did influence the situation even if the suicide note is older?

Annon 9:00 & 9:12

Anonymous said...

Anon 0900, there was an FBI profiler on the news and she discussed them having Stockholm Syndrome. I also saw where they said the other 2 women were not locked up but didn't try to escape with her when she did. But when the police went in to get them, you could hear them whimpering and maybe crying (they played the audio of LE going in). I think it was the newscaster who suggested Castro man may have been attempting something with the daughter and that her motherly instinct kicked in. I think it makes sense that it had something to do with her maternal instinct. She may have given up all hope for herself, but was still protective of her daughter and wanted to save her. I think we will find out more each day and hopefully we will have some statements to do SA on.

Coughing said...

I agree and I'm disappointed to see that Peter deleted all the challenges to Hobnob's questioning when most of it was fair and accurate. It was not the spam filter. It was there this afternoon.
I'm disillusioned with this site. Other people had relatable stories of assault or victimization and called Hobs out on victim shaming. Those posts are gone in favor of Hobs. That is unbalanced and biased. This is supposed to be objective analysis. But it seems as if favoritism is at work. Hobs is one of my favorites. However, I agree with those who questioned him/her and no one was out of line that I read. Yet most are gone.
This is so disappointing to me. Are we here for the victims? If so, let them speak!

Coughing said...

Pineapple, 90% of the posts challenging Hobs have been removed.
Only one attack, it remains. It wasn't yours. I'm a regular. I'm a former victim.
I took offense. My posts are gone as are many others.
Mine were not offensive.
This is not an equitable site for voices, or really for victims.
It's an in crowd it seems.
This post will be gone tomorrow, but not by me. John, Pineapple, Hobs, I've enjoyed most of your posts. I am not going to stay on a site, though, that is censored in such a bizarre manner. I'll study Mark McClish I guess.
Quit picking on Pineapple, 'regulars.'
It's hypocrisy.

Coughing said...

Lemon, this is such a bizarre overreaction. You lost all objectivity over the posts.
Pineapple is Hobs?! Prove it with SA.
Calm down.

Anonymous said...

Oh, come on Peter, why do you choose one poster over so many, many others? No one was rude to Hobnob except the one crude poster. This is getting ridiculous!

Lemon said...

Pineapple is not Hobs. That was my point.
The post I was answering has been removed.

Carry on.

Full_of_Hope said...

The posts that have been removed sounded sincere. They were expressing their feelings and were not abusive.

Anonymous said...

My comment has disappeared, too. Apparently, Hobnob is Queen. I've enjoyed the board a lot, up till now.

BTW Hobnob, you' re not the only person who's childhoond was less than perfect. And, frankly, your first comments on this breaking story show you to be the fool who I won't suffer.
Good luck with your board, Peter.

Anonymous said...

You blew it this time Peter. You are quickly losing credibility as being unbiased and fair. Hobnob is not always correct.

Sus said...

Hobnob said, "all I am sensing so far is passivity"

Your "sense" comes from what statement from which woman? At the time you wrote this, Amanda Berry is the only woman we have a statement from (her 911 call.) I would not call her passive in that call.

Coughing said...

I'd like to thank everyone who spoke out on the favorites vs challenges censorship issue here. It's bad enough victims on here were told to STFU for disagreeing with Hobs, but Peter must have removed those posts. Mine were not 'removed' by author and neither were another person's I know who lived through something like this.

This is a biased site for an in crowd.

Don't tell me to STFU. Peter will delete this benign, frank post. Regardless of that, I am also entitled to my opinion.

You cannot delete posts that challenge other prople without abuse and convey the message that every opinion counts. You just disenfranchised and dehumanized the people who related to the victim, as if to say, your voice doesn't count.

Soooo disappointed in this site.

Coughing said...

Before I leave I want to point out that this poster, Anon at 8:55 is, by her account, a survivor. No one is sympathizing with her bravery or sending her kindnesses. Why not? Because she's choosing privacy? Are you making presumptions about that choice? Anon is a viable option that Peter has added for posting.
I send you hugs, Anon.

Anonymous said...

Thank you coughing and hugs to you also.my ordeal wasn't the same as these three womens,but when I read hobnobs post it seemed like she blamed them for not escaping sooner.if you have never been in that situation you do not know how you will react to it.they were children also when it happened.imo 14 16 and 20 are still children.imho

ima.grandma said...

God bless you Anonymous @8:55. Your bravery to go against the crowd and speak your voice is a strong indicator that you are indeed a survivor. I also went against the grain in this post and had some comments deleted. Hobnob has no problem spouting her beliefs and she does have insight to particular topics that are interesting, but without all viewpoints, this site becomes another social interaction venue. Her tendency to dominate this site has become boring.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps some clear guidelines should be posted as to what is an acceptable post and what is not. For most I believe it is rather evident what is within the realm of common decency. Of course, some will not follow these and some will lose control at times, we are only human.

Based on the posts I've seen from you, coughing, I believe your testimony that non-offense though questioning, perhaps seen as challenging, posts to Hobs were deleted, though I did not see them. Based on your posts I also believe your assessment that they were not offensive or out-of-bounds, though perhaps sensitive to Hobs and those who feel particularly close to this poster.

I am not certain if the removed posts were questioning Hob's assessment of the victom's 911 call or childhood tragedy; my assumption is that they were related to the latter. Regular posters have rather roughly addressed new and/or anon posters with the claim that all statements posted are open to statement analysis and have had their posts vigourously picked apart; why would Hob's account be accepted at face value on this blog? I understand that for many p
osters this blog has becom
e a safe haven and Hob's post was an opening of the soul and it feels cruel to consider applying statement analysis to such a heart-wrenching account of a regular poster doing so can give us great insight into that poster.

Anonymous said...

I would be very interesting to know what your posts said; I am the anon you responded to above who noted that it's odd no one had questioned Hob's account.

Anonymous said...

Once again, hear, hear!!!

Anonymous said...

May I borrow these words of wisdom? I had not thought of this side of the coin to the adage.

Anonymous said...

Furthermore, what emotion would one expect from a woman held hostage if not passivity? This is conditioned into abuse victims; it is horrifying to live thru. I am living thru it now and just now finding the strength to get out, the logic to do so safely, to make sure my babies are safe in the process and that I am not harmed beyond the point of being able to take care of them.

I am the anon responding to coughing, coughing responding to me; I am an active passive victim; if you are or have been a victim similar to this by a spouse or significant other, you will know what this means.

Sus said...

Hobnob, please stop hiding behind your statements that "this is a statement analysis site", "everyone's statements may be analyzed", "the subject is dead, the statement is alive" and so forth.

You did not analyse a statement. You played detective. Or as Kaaryn calls it, "put on the investigator hat."

You did so in question form, telling me you were not committed to seeking answers, but perhaps looking for attention.

Many of your "facts" were instead rumors, and incorrect.

You gave your life story again to explain and excuse blaming the victim(s.

You like to tell us how positive and loving you are, but your words on this post were the opposite. You can see that by the reactions here. I hope the kidnapped women nor their loved ones never see your posts.

Coughing said...

Sus, bravo! You totally put that beautifully into words.
Anyone who truly is a survivor is unlikely to judge. Look at the elegant words of Elizabeth Smart who encouraged the victims to not make it a reflection of their worth or value.

Peter, you are deleting the wrong posts. Don't you get the irony here??

Anonymous said...

Peter has said there is a spam filter that deletes posts and that he also has admins who delete posts. It's possible it's not Peter deleting all posts that are deleted. Since this is a statement analysis site that is its main purpose. Peter allows us as guests to discuss the topics at hand even when we are not using SA. If we do not agree with a poster or feel that they do not understand a victim's mentality to such an extent that it becomes offensive to us, I believe a post constructed showing hurt and vulnerability and explaining from our point of view and leaving out anything that might be perceived as an attack might help the person to understand. Also, we can use SA on anyone's posts here for our own understanding of that person. We do not need to post the analysis.

Anonymous said...

I don't know, maybe I am the only one who reads Hobnobs post as questioning whether they did try to escape before rather than accusing the victims of not seeking help.

It reads (to me) as though she is asking questions as to why they didn't try to escape before...not saying they definately didn't, more like saying, did they try to escape before? Maybe that people did see suspiscious goings on? and like she says at the end...there is more to come on this story. And so there was. Information is coming out about how they were chained up, locked away etc and quite possibly did try to escape before. Also there may well have been other victims. I do not see Hobnobs post as accusing the women of not trying to escape and accepting their situation. I don't read it as Hobnobs blaming the victims at all.


Coughing said...

Hobs, that post is so narcissistic that I have done a 180 on my opinion of you. First you are loving, kind, generous, praising and then you 'don't suffer fools gladly,' and feel it is your duty to correct and educate them.'
Oh for the love of God, that is so offensive.
This position change is so drastic that it makes me wonder if 1. someone has stolen your identity 2. you have mpd or 3. you lack self awareness and split.
Who are the fools? The victims (in the house or on these blogs) or people who call you out on being wrong or (unwittingly?) shaming the victims?
Perrhaps you are saying Ariel was a fool you wouldn't have suffered.

The Bible is very clear about vanity and pride. Yours are out of control. You lack humility at even the most basic level...and grandiose.

Kidnapped, raped, tortured, beaten, held hostage, isolated for years, only to be judged by some lordly statement analysis hobbyist who does not fear God or even fate. Sometimes we are brought to understanding the hard way, as been said here. There but for the Grace of God go you.

Everyone still want to attack victims on here who clearly see the inconsistencies in Hob's words? SA her posts if you can't get over your bias.
I'd like to see everyone move away from an us vs them or 'regulars' vs 'unknowns' divide and focus on what is said and what is wrong.

And Hobs is wrong. I'm correcting you so you can be educated.

Anonymous said...

Thak you ima.grandma and anon posters for their support of my comments in oppostition to hobnobs posts.when I first read her comment on why didn't they escape sooner,all I could think was I was an adult when I was held against my will and raped and I had no idea what to do to save myself except to comply and survive.as children of 14 and 16 how could anyone expect them to do more than survive the ordeal?none of us know exactly what they went through and how many times they tried to escape.imho anonymous from 519 655 and 855 may 7 2013

Coughing said...

I didnt respond to you, Anon who wanted Hobs statement analyzed. Im not sure why it looked like that. Im not surprised it wasnt analyzed though. Hobs has a following, and has had good insight. The ego is running amok this week with her maybe? I hate to think you can get away with anything just because you are a regular? Suppositions.

This is a learning site, and, using a college class as a model, who here ever learned anything from a biased professor who gave you a bad grade for not falling in line? If you can make a good argument your post should stand. I am so perplexed. This is such a highly regarded site yet there are some very unprofessional practices with censoring.

Anonymous said...

This thread is ridiculous. It sounds similar to the BillieDunnNothing followers that were accusing this blog of blaming Hailey. Everyone is allowed to disagree, agree, whatever, put your point across in a manner that is not offensive and perhaps it will not get deleted by anyone.


Lemon said...

I don't see anyone attacking victims. I see a lot of attacking Hobs for her supposed 'sins'. If you were a regular you would know Hobs has chosen not to "follow" the bible. Hobs has been very upfront and open about this which I find quite refreshing. If you were more tolerant and less judgmental you would know this.

"And Hobs is wrong. I'm correcting you so you can be educated." Vanity, hello. Pride, hello.

Why can't you just disagree agreeably? Your posts says more about you than it does Hobs. I'm disappointed in your intolerance for other viewpoints.

Anonymous said...

Coughing, Hobnob is a respected and long time poster here. I have been reading here a long time but I don't always post. She has earned respect. That is not the same as followers. Maybe she is being given the benefit of the doubt.

Now you are making assumptions about why she said what she did, that her ego is running amok. She gave an insight into her childhood and even said there were some things she doesn't talk about. Perhaps this incident with the women has triggered something more painful in her than we know. We don't know. You are right, victims are not responsible. We know that. I believe Hobnob knows that. I know you are upset. When I am upset, I try to remove myself from the situation and gain some perspective and come back. I am sorry you are hurt and I hope you will give this some time and let yourself and others gain some perspective.

Anonymous said...

I totally agree with coughings post at 118 pm.

Anonymous said...

Is there a way to email Peter? I was just thinking of asking him to chime in with a reminder of what this blog is all about. It is so hard to follow along with all the angry responses. I think it really takes from the SA people are trying to learn or have an interest in. Sometimes it is better to just not respond to the angry comments and maybe they will go away.

Anonymous said...

I think Coughing and the other anons are disagreeing agreeably. They are trying to be heard and feel like they aren't. To paint them with the same brush as BD supporters is not agreeable.

Anonymous said...

Agreed Anon 1.56!


Anonymous said...

“The oppressors do not favor promoting the community as a whole, but rather selected leaders.”

Anonymous said...

ima grandma said: Her tendency to dominate this site has become boring.

You should see how she runs Peter's radio show.

Let's just be thankful she nicknamed her intuitive side "inner child". She could have called it her "dark passenger".

For the sake of peace and harmony, please just skim over her posts. A wise sociopath once asked me, "Do you know what is worse than being talked about?"

For those that want to give it a shot, try SA yourselves. Remember this:
What we say in the negative is extremely important!
Order is also important.
Note when there is a change in reality.
Check the use of pronouns and when I isn't used.
Make sure you look for the unnecessary words that weaken a statement. Even those you think are assertive are riddled with words that weaken it.
Check for proper social introductions and when those introductions are made.
Note the things the writer felt a need to include that are not related to the point she is trying to make.
But I don't recommend posting your analysis, as more than likely it will get deleted.

Shelley said...

Has anyone called Slyvia Brown out on her clear lack of any real physic ability?

if not, i will gladly do it.

I paid for one years ago while I was going through some tough person stuff. I paid her $80 only to tell me many things that would happen that never did.

I later called her and told her nothing she said came true. her BS excuse was "there is free will and anything can change at anytime".

Ok, so then you are not physic is what I replied to her and hung up.

This case in paticular, she destroyed hope the mother may have had left.

To do that is not excusable and she should not be allowed to profit off her BS!!

Anonymous said...

Its really interesting that some of you picked out there seems to be something off with the neighbors account of what happened since now someone else is coming out saying he is actually the one who first came to their rescue.

~ABC said...

Can't we all just get along? :D

ima.grandma said...

The neighbor just now coming out to speak is telling the truth. He is the one who rescued Amanda and her little girl from the house.

Lori said...

I haven't heard much about the charges against the kidnappers. I am eager to hear what the kidnappers family has to say. 10 years is such a long time there has to have been some notable strange behavior by these three men.
I hope they get put away forever.

Sus said...

Anon 1:15, You are making my point for me. " It reads (to me) as though she is ASKING. QUESTIONS as to why they didn't try to escape before..."

Hobnob said, "Why wait so long to try and escape WHEN THERE WERE OPPORTUNITIES BEFORE?"
How does Hobnob know this?

Hobnob said, "There would have been times when they were alone in the house and neighbors doing neighborly stuff, why was no attempt ever made?"
Again, how does Hobnob know this?

Both of these statements are in question form showing Hobnob is not committed to them. She speaks for the kidnapped women, the neighbors, and the kidnapper as to what they do.

"I am not blaming the victims for the situation they found themselves in."
Said in the negative, making it sensitive to Hobnob. Hobnob changed tenses in this sentence from present (am blaming) to past (found). This sentence is flagged. Others on this blog can feel Hobnob is blaming the victims.

Survivors do what they have to do to make it through ten years of hell. The humble are in awe of it rather than question it.

Sus said...

Only one is charged. LE decided after questioning that the other two brothers were not involved.

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Coughing said...

Btw, someone's post has been deleted her condemning me for being proud and vain for schooling Hobs. Good. I am reflecting Hob's words back at her. I also wanted to see if anyone would jump on me for using her words in defense of her (Hobs). That's exactly what happened.
I'm a novice. I deal with questions from people every day. Everyone is a fool including me. People who can't see that about themselves aren't seeing reality.

I hope other people can see the dichotomy between self aggrandizing for being loving and virtuous and then seeing others as fools to be suffered and educated.

I'm well educated, I've had a hard life, and I'm learning as well. Don't suffer on my behalf. Enjoy your life and genuinely be kind, generous and tolerant of others, thankful you aren't walking in their shoes.

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