Monday, August 3, 2015

DeOrre, Backwards Speech, and Psychics

The DeOrre Kunz case has caught the attention of the public.

An improbable account from his parents, the missing toddler has captivated us.

In Statement Analysis, we have a scientific process by which we apply techniques that, evenly applied, are based upon:

decades of research using the polygraph, particularly in the "SCAN" (Scientific Content Analysis, from Laboratory of Scientific Interrogation), the brain-child of Israeli immigrant, Avinoam Sapir, but also of:

lengthy research that went into the "Reid Technique" and others, including Nathan J. Gordon and William L. Fleisher's work, "Effective Interviewing and Interrogation Techniques" that, in its third edition, gives interviewers from law enforcement, civil investigations, counselors, therapists, human resource professionals, journalists, social workers, and so on, a great advantage in obtaining not only truth, but content.

With "backwards speech" and "psychics", we have carnival like attraction that even Paul McCartney had some fun with, in the early 90's, with "Free As A Bird" single, the "Beatles reunion" song in which he, George Harrison, and Richard Starkey, (Ringo) used an old demo recording from the late John Lennon and added their voices and instrumentation to construct a song as a "reunion" of sorts, of their pop band.

I love the song as I thought it was a lot of fun to hear them together, with the best compliment coming when people said, "It sounds like the Beatles!" in reviews.

At the end of the song, Paul added a backwards recording, as a way to poke fun of the "Paul is dead" rumor of 1970 (or so) where people claimed that messages were sent backwards in speech.  Therefore, when you play "Free As a Bird" ending backwards, you hear him saying something to the affect of "that came out alright, didn't it?" as a joke.

I have covered much about psychics, honing upon several elements, in particular, including deception in their "visions", that is, to show that their words do not come from experiential memory.  In other words, the words of a psychic do not come from memory of having first hand experience talking, or seeing, anything.

They are deceptive.

Our words reveal our background, experience, priorities and personalities.  Psychics claim to obtain knowledge beyond the limitations of human nature, that is, our senses.  Their claims are many centuries old, and their words often reveal personality disorders of those who have desperation for recognition in this world.

They are deceptive.

Like most liars, psychics become enraged when seen as such.  They are often unbalanced, and, have, for many years, used carnivals, or carnival like atmospheres, to "fleece" people.  When a child goes missing, there is no more vulnerability than what the innocent parents feel, and to prey upon such vulnerabilities with fraudulent claims, is beyond adequate description of how low a human being will go for recognition (which leads to money) or attention.

In short, no "psychic" in spite of the thousands 'out there' via social media has ever located a single missing person.

You have better odds of winning the lottery, several days in a row, than a psychic does finding a missing person.  At best, the broken clock being correct twice, the more vague the psychic is, the better the odds of appearing, at least, accurate, is.

Backwards language joining with psychic claims is not surprising; they are similar in that they have no basis in reality, science, or even common sense.

At worst, the "backwards language" person risks brining emotional and potential financial harm to the family of a missing person but there is also that element of Statement Analysis which concerns me:


This is also true of "leakage" with authors (Jonbenet, Amanda Knox) picking up words that may, perhaps, be signals of leakage in language, thus "proving" guilt.

To be sure, the notion of "leakage" is real in Statement Analysis, but it is never elevated to a "strong indicator" of proof of anything.  Rather, it is something we use effectively once deception has been proven in the analysis, for content purposes.

For example, when Caylee Anthony went "missing", the mother, Casey, was indicated for deception.

In her statement, we learned:

1.  Caylee was dead
2.  Casey needed an alibi.

These two assertions were in the analysis conclusion, and were not difficult to ascertain.


where was Caylee?

When George Anthony and Cindy Anthony, Casey's parents, spoke, they, too, were indicated for deception.

They knew Caylee was dead, and all their claims to the contrary, showed deception, and they knew Casey was involved, and all claims to the contrary showed deception.

That George and Cindy knew Caylee was dead, and Casey was involved, was not difficult to ascertain.


where was Caylee?

Cindy Anthony, in particular, was the dominant parent and her language even showed a bullying of George, as well as aggression, defiance and one who had a strong comfort level with deception (as did her husband) yet who possessed an ability to justify or quiet her guilty conscience.  The best way to get her to talk and reveal her aggressive personality was to challenge her veracity.

Tim Miller, at no small expensive, moved his helicopter and horses from Texas to Florida to help find Caylee.  When he arrived in Orlando at the home of George and Cindy, Cindy refused to assist him in finding Caylee by running interference; he was not permitted to even speak to the one who saw Caylee last:  Casey, her mother.

Tim tried various means of getting, in the very least, a starting point, for the search but Cindy blocked all attempts at locating Caylee.  Cindy wanted the public appearance of finding Caylee, while protecting, at all costs, the burial location of Caylee's remains.

She did not "sabotage" the search, she caused it to be canceled, instead.  She even took to, as is the habit of liars when challenged, attacking, personally, the one she deemed her enemy:  the man who came to find her "missing" granddaughter, Tim Miller, telling the press he was a "drunk" among other things.

After she uncerminoniusouly kicked Miller out of her home, she went to the press (of which even Casey's own jailhouse words revealed Cindy's personality and love of attention, calling it a "cameo") and announced,

"George and I don't believe Caylee's in the woods, or anything."

When I heard this statement live, I said, "Caylee's in the woods."

This is an example of leakage; that is, even while being deceptive, people may just 'leak out' information they did not intend to share, simply because it weighs so heavily on the mind.

It is most inexact, at best, and is only used in the realm of "perhaps" and "maybe", but not "definitively so" in our conclusions.  It is valuable and is something we use to view content, but it does not, for example, follow the accuracy of pronouns, or articles.

It is a small tool, howbeit valuable, but it is not concessionary, within itself.

I do not wish the nonsense of "backwards language" to be confused or even associated with Statement Analysis or leakage, in the minds of readers.

Law Enforcement has, at times, spoken with psychics.  There are several reasons for this:

I once analyzed a statement from a psychic that showed guilty knowledge of the crime.


Because he did it.

There is a psychological need on the part of those who claim to have psychic powers to be recognized as special, unique, and so on.  They are often narcissistic and this is something that is sometimes shared with criminal elements.

Therefore, any and everyone that calls in about a case is looked at as a possible suspect.

Next, law enforcement sometimes fear bad publicity, especially when "reality" shows include "psychics" and our ill informed and undereducated public, who is more prone to repeat a bumper sticker of deception, than think critically, will embrace and 'demand' law enforcement "uncover every possible tip"; that is, until they are overwhelmed and announce that they are not taking any more calls from psychics.

This was the case with Baby Ayla.  So many "psychics" called in with "tips", some even claiming to have spoken to Ayla (who, statement analysis revealed, was dead before she left that home that night, something seen in the father's language long before we learned of the blood found cleaned up at the house).  No one "talked" to Ayla, just as no one "conversed with Hailey Dunn" as they claimed.

Those who make claim to have "intuitive gifts" (just a name change from "psychic") are liars and will become very angry, filled with venom, for having their mask pulled off, and their deception known.  Remember the one who just happened to have the same first name as a suicide victim?  She made it her life work to torment the teenager's mother to the point where she actually got herself on television.

She is a liar.

She is a fraud.

But she is also so acutely desperate for recognition that she will bring irreparable harm and a life time of pain to others, just to feel important for a short period of time.

They hold others in contempt, often with deep resentment for their own families, as people are seen as those who can be readily fooled with lies.

They claim to obtain information beyond human senses; that is, you must accept them by debasing science which leads me to "backwards language."

Our brain learns through repetition and has an emotional capacity which shows positive reaction to logic.

We "like" that 2 apples added to 2 apples gives us 4 apples.

It makes sense, and gives us a sense of security, as we, the higher creatures, possess detailed linguistic abilities that no other created beings have.

We learn chronologically, as well.

We see, with our eyes, and store in memory, over time, making recall flow with a certain speed of transmission that is very very fast.

When we are asked, "What did you do this morning?", we reach into a dictionary of words, in our heads, that numbers 25,000 or more words, and decide:

a.  which words to use
b.  which events to report
c.  which words not to use
d.  which events not to report
e.  what verb tenses to use
f.  what pronouns to use
g.  where to place these words to make sense

All this takes place in less than a millisecond of time.

When we lie, we go into this 25,000 plus dictionary, and we think of how to avoid telling the truth, which interrupts this speed of transmission, causing a form of 'stress' in the person speaking.

This "interruption" or "pause" is seen in, quite often, extra words, or self-censoring, or due to the fact that the words are not proceeding from experiential memory, confused pronouns.

These few elements mentioned (additional words, self-censoring, confused pronouns) have been studied for many years and fall into patterns where the liar can be caught, or seen as such.

We do not study backwards spelling giving the brain no reference point for backwards words. 

I once met a man with adult autism who had a knack for speaking words backwards.  It was interesting for a bit of time, but when weeks turned into months, it was annoying when communication was intended.

The average person with 25,000 words does not spend time learning, and then concentrating on spelling and saying words backwards, leaving no brain recognition patterns.

Therefore, when "backwards language" is used, we can either:

a.  force our belief of guilt into the words and find something that fits;
b.  just amuse ourselves and can force any meaning we wish, into any statements we want to have, eventually in this "hit or miss" game, we will find something to match what we want.

The same is with Andrew Hodge's books.  He finds "leakage" wherever he wants to find leakage and just because

Yes, a therapist who is talented in listening will eventually grasp that "boy, it is cold out" has something to do with loneliness rather than weather, but will not 'force' meanings into anything, but will explore possibilities.  Perhaps it means weather, but perhaps, especially through the lens of statement analysis (repetition means sensitivity) will search for loneliness.

When I hear "water" in a statement, I do not rush to conclude, "sexual abuse!" but know that I should explore for it as a possible element in a case.

Taking "backwards language" or "leakage" or "psychics", and we can say

Apple means Orange at any time, for any reason, if, of course, we wish to find oranges.

Imagine a cursory reading of Statement Analysis, believing a case, and then forcing this belief into the language?

Recall the self proclaimed "criminal profiler-journalist" who insisted something was innocent because "he never referenced her in the past tense!"

I wish she had read the analysis a bit closer.  In her case, a powerful political agenda overruled reason and logic, which coupled with a desperate need for attention, to bring her to the place of folly overruling sense.


Science teaches us that we gain knowledge through our senses.

Psychics claim to gain knowledge outside the laws of science.

Emotions run very high and emotions, themselves, become little 'tyrants' who do not like to be questioned, which is why when one does not agree with this "emotional view they often go into attack mode, and you and I must be "morally inferior" because:

science is something we can apply over and over and get the same results.

We are not enslaved to inconsistency, or arbitrary application.  

Statement Analysis is taught, learned, practiced and has well above 90% results (this is an accepted level for polygraphs, which we supersede greatly), while psychics have 0% success.

Principles are memorized and implemented, but there is something else that we do:

We study and learn the psychological basis for our principles. 

For example, I received a call to assist in a theft case.

Local PD had not found the thief and concluded that too many employees had access to the missing money.

I told the owners, "If one of your employees stole it, and you have each one write out what they did from the time they got to work, until the time they left, I should be able to tell you who did it, how they did it, when they did it, and perhaps even why they did it."

One employee wrote, "I woke up, brushed my teeth, got dressed and went to work."  

She wrote out her entire day, but this sentence, alone told me:

1.  She had been asleep.
2.  She brushed her teeth
3.  She got dressed.
4.  She went to work.

These are, statistically speaking, very likely to be true.  I know this by the sentence structure.

I believe she had been asleep, and I believe she brushed her teeth and got dressed and she went to work.  All these things are accepted by me, as fact, due to the sentence structure.

Next, she "told" me some things that are helpful to know.

I "know" she brushed her teeth but what I do not know is why she felt the need to tell me, the investigator, that she brushed her teeth.

Statistically I know that the inclusion of personal hygiene is associated with the concealment of information, later on in the statement, most likely related to personal information.

Statistically, this personal information is often found to be that the writer (the "subject") is a victim of Domestic Violence.

Psychologically, it makes sense.

Having worked with victims (and perpetrators) of D/V for many years, I know that most victims are controlled, on a day to day basis, not by violence, but by the threat of violence leaving them with a life that is stressed continually, as if "walking on eggshells", worrying that she just might say the wrong thing and trigger his rage.

Her world feels "out of her control" due to this lack of certainty that he will blow up, or awaken in anger, or she will say something to trigger his rage.

When she brushes her teeth, what does she do?

a.  She has control over something in her life, even if but for a few minutes.
b. She may even lock the door, increasing her sense of control and safety.

Therefore, you and I might not ever include the "needless" detail of "brushing teeth" but to a victim of Domestic Violence, it is something so important, that she felt the need to write it in a statement to an investigator.

I do not "interpret" bushing teeth as anything.  She brushed her teeth and I believe her.

I do, in addition to believing her, ask myself, "Why did she feel the need to tell me this?" and I explore, that is, I look for concealed information later in her statement, that is of a personal nature.

In this case, she was living with a violent boyfriend who had bullied her for information on the company's security system.  When I asked the owner, "Is she is a D/V relationship?", yes, the owner did look at me as if I was a genius or had some unknown ability to "see" what others could not see.

It is not so.

It is from the work of others, long memorized and practiced with hard work, more hard work, and when finally exhausted, a bit more hard work.

It is something that is taught to all.

It is not reinterpretation, nor is it "inside" knowledge that was obtained outside the realm of human senses.

It is not something that is made from backwards language.

In fact, it is likely you could prove anything from any statement, by either twisting and declaring it to be "leakage", like the Hodge books, or push the words together, with no spaces, look at them backwards, and play "Scrabble" by formulating words that fits your agenda or conclusion.

Therefore, you have to take a case where you have read actual analysis, or have a very strong opinion on a case, and then force your theory (already accepted by others) into this same article to "prove" your assertion.

It is unscientific, illogical, and as equally fraudulent as the claims of psychics.

It may make people "feel good", especially about an opinion that agrees with them, but it is not something that can be taken and scientifically applied to produce the same results, time and time again.

You've landed at this blog because you enjoy not only discerning deception from truth, but because you respect how principles are applied, each and every case, in the same, even-handed matter.

You only "know" what others do not know because you take the time and effort to listen and to learn, but it is not "magic" and it engages the senses, rather than suspend the laws of nature.

I am acutely aware of the fallen standardized grades of Americans and how feelings have trumped reason and how those who do not "feel" the same are demonized and their freedoms shouted down. I am aware of the "Casey Anthony Jury" and just how critical thinking has been discarded.  I see how effective propaganda has been on the masses and how "if it don't fit, you must acquit!" holds more meaning to many than following an argument.  I read the comments that follow news paper articles and shudder as illogic is embraced and how politicians, in ways I did not conceive possible just a few short years ago, manipulate a population with a complicit media, into building a voter base who are blindly loyal, no matter how destructive the ends.  I do grasp this.

Yet in the quest for truth, we follow reasonable arguments, logical principle, and we seek to apply it fairly.

You may lift our principles and apply them anywhere, with no special "extra sensory perception" needed.

Eventually, some 'psychic' is going to say "I see the child in the woods, scared and crying for mama" and a child is going to be found in the woods and someone will ask him, "were you crying for mama?" and for a short season, the 'psychic' have Facebook popularity and may even reign for a few months, until another child disappears and their fanbase demands an answer.

Backwards language is not analysis and just because the forced conclusion agrees with your opinion, it remains a game of Scrabble beginning with a premise to prove, and the words, running backwards, are sought to fit into the theme.

It is a game, if not an interesting game.

It is not justice.

It is not science.

It reminds me of "Fischer Random Chess" where Bobby Fischer, convinced that chess would be "solved", invented a version of chess in which the pieces are 'juggled' before the game, by a computer, nullifying the opening theory that has been memorized deeply by grandmasters.

It never took off as people still love traditional chess.

If you have an hour free, try it yourself on any statement and input your theory and see if you can make it fit.  Chances are, if the article or statement is long enough, you can make it fit your theme or presupposition, especially if you remove spaces from words when setting them up backwards.

This can also be done in "crossword puzzle" style; horizontal and vertical, and the same statement can be "puzzled" or set up to first prove one's guilt, and then to prove one's innocence.

Both from the same statement.

Psychics and "backwards speech" are equally useless in investigations but at least backwards speech can be entertaining, as a game, perhaps even provoking thinking as Scrabble requires, for those learning language.

As to obtaining truth, we remain committed to old fashioned hard work in analysis.

The psychic's language shows passivity, vagueness and words that do not come from experiential memory.  They are deceptive.

One is outright deceptive, while the other is more a game, similar to a crossword puzzle, but when both claim to 'prove' anything, guilt or innocence, it is an ode to folly, illogic and gamesmanship.

Law enforcement wastes time due to fear of an ignorant public being churned by a malicious media, demanding to know why they are not following "all" the tips.

Even paying someone to answer the extra phone calls from these narcissistic opportunists is a waste of resource.

Backward speech is similar to the spam comments that say, "I lose my husband, Raefelo until I contact the great Doctor Manzieher who cast spell and I lost weight, find my love now and have 2 new babies" and give you a web site to click on to with the promise of "weight loss", "love" and "instant success" in business.

I think one may have more success, as George Anthony discovered, with falling upon each job, filing for disability, and subsidizing an Nigerian princess, who will deposit 3.2 million dollars in your account if you give her your account number. 

These, as well as my favorite fortune cookies all have the same level of success.  They are "entertainment purposes only" and should not be presented as anything else.

If you apply Statement Analysis principles  to the backward speech claims, you will note deception, including the use of passivity in speech.

If you apply Statement Analysis principles to the claims of psychics, you will find passivity, vagueness (the avoidance of detail) or indicators that experiential memory is not in play.

Scams have always existed, yet when a loved one goes missing, the ability to resist suggestibility in any form, is greatly diminished.  This is why the Facebook psychics are called 'vultures' who prey upon the vulnerable.  


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Anonymous said...

Nice article!

Cindy's first words about Caylee we heard were from a 911 call. "It smells like a dead body has been in the damned car"

She had not seen her granddaughter who lived with her for over a month.
She was a nurse.

I think that was her first leakage. And it sealed my opinion of her right away.

trustmeigetit said...

Jennifer Marteliz is a missing girl from Tampa. She's never been found.

Interesting enough, her neighbor had told police he had a psychi vision and described the murderer but later said he made it all up.

Avinoam Sapir actually read his statement and said that the man was speaking of himself.

I really found it interesting.

He was never convicted. She remains missing over 30 years now.

For those that may be interested in her case, read the link below.

The man that had the vision said the murder was done with another man. Years later a woman contacted police to tell them about something that occurred as a child with her creepy neighbor. Basically he had come to his home in Philly from his other home in Tampa with a garbage bag. He dug a deep hole in the woods behind their homes and then disposed of the bag. He had been in Tampa when Jennifer went missing and spoke of her when he returned saying her knew her. He also lived only a few blocks away. Police said even his car matched a car seen leaving where she was last seen. Anyways, police searched the land, found nothing but said they would return in spring with more dogs but I don't think they ever did. I was sure they would find the missing girl.

But it remains unsolved. But it was interesting that Mr Sapir had some involvement and while in this case the guy claimed a vision, he said the guy was in fact speaking of himself. Also, the man at the time had passed away, his son was asked about the allegations and his only response was "consider the source" and didn't say his father did not kill the little girl.

I really hoped LE would go back and search, if anything to at least give her mom closure. I'm still sure she is there.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Michael Shermer, skeptic
"Why People Believe Weird Things"
This, and another TED Talk I'll share, explains why people are susceptible to such pseudoscience as reverse speech and other supposed phenomena. The last part of the video he illustrates an example straight from the reverse speech website. I met Michael Shermer a few times when I was a university student; he is a friend and colleague of one of my philosophy professors.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Michael Shermer, skeptic
"The Pattern Behind Self-Deception"
In this TED Talk, Shermer explains how our brains are hardwired to look for patterns in things--patternicity; we evolved with the tendency to make type 1 (false positive) errors as a mode of survival. Once again, he explains the reasons why people are susceptible to such pseudoscience as reverse speech, alien abductions, psychics, etc.

lynda said...

I must say that I love to read your writing. I read this one twice as I just can't comprehend everything that you are really saying in one reading! That's how "newbie" I am. I was asking on the Deorr thread how did the backwards speaking work because I could find no logic in it at all. To my mind, if 5 people made the same statement, with the same inflection, playing it backwards would sound the same from each of the 5 people so what's the mystery here? Why would people not think of that? I am aging myself to say I remember the "Paul is dead" hysteria and thinking the whole thing ridiculous. I also commented that I was stunned that anyone would drive 32 hours in a 48 hour period to "search" but after reading the above it makes perfect sense. There are no limits, no boundaries that a narcissist wouldn't cross to get the attention they seek. Your article really drives that home and it's also pretty scary to see how we the public are swayed by the sheer number of people talking about it. If 20 people tell you the sky is green, I guess the sky is green and something must be wrong with my eyes. My ex who was LE hated it when other investigators would "box think." He explained it was when they saw a crime scene, made a theory of what happened, and then manipulated the evidence, witnesses, thoughts of others, etc. to FIT their own theory so they could "close" the case. If I am reading correctly, your article states the same. Fascinating and I am so glad you wrote it. I look forward to learning more and more from you and all the great people on this blog.

Rose City, Oregon said...

Lynda, if you watch the video I shared, "Why People Believe Weird Things," Shermer shows a clip from the Reverse Speech website in which "Stairway to Heaven" is played backwards, and there is really nothing intelligible about it. It is only after the suggestion of hearing certain words (because the human brain is pattern seeking), that an individual is fooled into thinking there is something there. That is how this bogus, pseudoscience, reverse speech works. It is nothing but a scam.

Juliet said...

A very timely article, but I'm disappointed now as I have already posted my rants against the reverse speech guy on the other thread, which is now up to four-hundred comments (not all by me) where they are much less likely to be read. :)

I, too, greatly appreciate this site, which I have read for years, though have only recently started posting, and that due to baby DeOrr. Trouble is, I now can't shut up, so to anyone I might annoy, sorry about that.

Jessica Blans said...

I've been reading this blog for a few weeks and learning a lot about statement analysis. It is fascinating, precise, and predictable, which makes me wish I had enough free time to study it in-depth. Thank you, Peter Hyatt, for the education you provide.

I almost made my first comment yesterday after falling down the rabbit hole of backwards speech as touted in the Facebook group about baby DeOrr. I wondered what Peter Hyatt and the commenters thought about it. It was nice to wake up this morning and find a post about it.

One of the other things I wondered is if you all wanted to take a crack at analyzing the statements the father, DeOrr Sr. made on the webpage of the backwards speech guy. These comments were deleted by the backward speech guy, followed by an angry rant that indicated Kellen Marson, the backwards speech guy, knows more than law enforcement "allows" him to disclose.

There were a couple comments by DeOrr to Kellen Marson on Marson's backwards speech Facebook page. Marson traveled to Idaho to help search for baby DeOrr based upon knowledge gained through his backwards speech analysis. Evidently he ran into the parents of baby DeOrr, some kind of conflict happened, and police were called. After Marston commented on the parents causing the conflict, DeOrr Sr wrote a few comments on Marstons blog disagreeing with Marston's account. I have screen shots of all, but am not sure of the order they originally appeared. They were only posted for about an hour before being deleted by Marson.

It's too long for one post, so I will post the comments in next post.

Jessica Blans

Jessica Blans said...

...continued from above post

1. DeOrr Kunz to Marston: That's not close to what I told you I asked if you think you can help please do and thanked you for makeing the trip and as I asked your reverse speech that's the only question I was able to asked before the sheriff told me to get away from you I never threatened you or the two with you. I am sorry you hurt your ankle searching for my son. But I feel this was alittle over the top do to feeling I was not angry or up set and when I tried to have further conversation I was made to leave by law enforcement I believe you want to help but would like things straightened up please [sic]
2. DeOrr Kunz's other comment to Marston: Actually I did I said if you can help please do and thanked you for makeing the drive then you asked if I knew how far it was 16 hours there was no hostility as we spoke I thought it would be fine you helping we have asked for help by every resource aside military. We requested For lemhi county to get FBI and other resources. And Id be more than happy to sit and speak with you if it helps our son. [sic]

3. DeOrr Kunz (3rd? Order of comments is unclear) comment to Marston: I am the father and I did welcome his help and thank him for comeing and if can help please do no anger I just wanted to talk to him no one has even tried to speak with me personally I found that abit onesided but I'm not against any help to find my son we have called in any and every resource for help that lemhi county would agree on including FBI we requested them

Still too long, so I will continue on post below.

Jessica Blans

Anonymous said...

...continued post
Then there was a lot of drama on the What Happened to Baby DeOrr Facebook page and Kellen Marston wrote this note to address that drama
4. Kellen Marston's note to Facebook group: First, I'm not concerned with what people think or what gets crazy. People can base their own opinions why I do what I do it doesn't concern me. What I will say is that the entire confrontation between DeOrr and his family and myself was recorded on my camera that I have on my dashboard. This information has been given to a law enforcement agency. I deleted DeOrr's comments because my Facebook page is not going to turn into a bunch of people gossiping about what is true or what isn't true. There are plenty of Facebook groups for that. I offered DeOrr and his girlfriend the opportunity to talk with me, which they declined on Sunday. I'm glad that DeOrr is so distraught by the loss of his son, that he has time to worry about what I'm doing. He's simply doing manage control. Where was DeOrr last night when people were out until 11:30 pm looking for his boy? He left the mountain at 4:00pm and was joking and laughing. It's like he's completely forgot that he just got done searching for his child and DIDN'T find him and this was some how funny to him. I don't need to provide proof to anyone about anything. They are grown adults and maybe if they got off their gossip pages and did some research they would not need proof. The only proof I need comes out at the end of the case. DeOrr is not a concern to me. As he told me on the recording, he "just wants me to go away." Which unfortunately isn't going to happen. My advice to people. Before they want to gossip, they can first get up and go put some effort into finding DeOrr. I have a family and kids and commitments as well, but drove 16 hours one way to search for him on my own dime. If these people "talking" would put that effort into helping find this boy it's amazing what we could accomplish. As I've done from day one, I will not get involved in the gossip. I'm more involved in this situation than people may know at this point. Despite what DeOrr believes, the FBI was not "asked" by him to come. The family is under a microscope right now and they will do and say anything to keep there "act" going. The police that were out with us until 11:30 pm last night one of the deputies made a very bold statement, "I was with the parents until today as I noticed something odd about DeOrr when I was helping him search." Further, there is a shit load of corruption going on I won't get into, but I will say, that after DeOrr was asked to go home, the deputy looked at us and said, "If you know or find anything you contact me ONLY, to you understand?" For some reason they do not want any information going to the FBI or Bonneville County. I owe no one any justification as to why I do what I do. They talking has nothing to do with me. I have one job to find a child. All these "gossip rangers" forgot something. It's not about the family, it's not about anyone else. It's about finding a baby, regardless of who they believe is responsible. Everyone has lost sight of this. I'm more involved in this than people realize. Even DeOrr and his family are completely ignorant to the fact that law enforcement are telling them what they want to hear, but there is much more operating in the background. My job is to find the truth. When this storm all settles the truth will show it's self, which is why I don't own proof to anyone. DeOrr can keep "acting" and putting on show, but I have another bombshell to drop. But it will be put out through one of the biggest news outlets in America. I've been asked specifically to not release this information. However, I found it and therefore I have the right to distribute it... [ continued in next post]

Still too long, so continued in next post

Anonymous said...

...continued comment from Keelen Marson

...DeOrr is terrified of me, despite what he says. He will say or do anything to get me to stop talking and he tried today to be "my friend" typical of someone who has something to hide. Should he or his family continue to run their mouth, I will toss some new "proof" into this mix. DeOrr and Jessica are weak and they have already made so many mistakes and the FBI and police know this. Such as when they REALLY got to the mountain. This was told to me last night. And all the information people are gossiping about or what DeOrr or Trina say happened is damage control. I was told directly last night from the sheriffs department when the couple actually arrived. Having driven up to the camp sight yesterday I laughed hysterically that they would believe this was an abduction. Many people are talking, yet they have never even been up to the where the couple camp. There is no way in HELL an animal took the boy or he was abducted. I encourage people to go up to the campsite and see if for themselves and they would whistle a different tune. Trust me, the police after last night are also looking at this differently. DeOrr is pissed, I spent 4 hours with police. He thought he had them in his pocket, but he is wrong. I ask those that want to gossip or give their opinion, to take their own money, come out to Idaho and search for him on their own before they sit back and run their mouths. I'll leave that for people in the gossip rooms, but it WON't be done on my Facebook page. My page is about facts and truth, not about gossip. I have no desire to have DeOrr comment on my page. In fact, I'm actually offended he has time to come on my Facebook page and comment 4 times when his own damn son is missing. Why is he so concerned about me? If he is so innocent why is putting so much effort into defending himself? Are gossip rangers that ignorant they can't see between the line as to what he is doing. People are pissed because they want to see drama and gossip unfold. I won't participate in that. It is not productive in finding the missing boy. Again, this is about a missing child. where is his justice? When can he rest in peace? If people want to know where the baby is, asked DeOrr and Jessica they know! [end of Marson's comment]

Anyone able to discern anything based on those comments? Does it help clear up anything about deception and the father?

Jessica Blans

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Mc Gowan said...

Speaking of leakage in language. I posted this on the other DeOrr thread. Some may have not seen it as there is over 400 posts.

Backward guy says:

"There are trolls and people who want details to pass along to the family and friends and to simply gossip about. I figured this would happen anyway at some point. But I don't know who I can trust etc. So, unless you've been working with me from day one, I will not give any more information.

Do to talking with police yesterday.I am going to continue to pursue this case hard and push everything I've got to them. I will be pushing hard to get public attention and the media."

Is this what it is all about for him, getting the recognition he craves? Wanting to be in the "media" spotlight "pushing hard to get public attention" selling his snake oil online. What next i wonder?. Does he a book in the pipeline?. Cue, Nancy Grace!

To add. He says "So, unless you've been working with me from day one, I will not give any more information".

This is said in the negative. Importantly, as we see in Jessica's post. He now contradicts himself. Me, me, me me me!!

Anonymous said...

Isaac did it alone and will be arrested.

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Mc Gowan said...

I have a book by the author "Ian Rowland" The Full Facts Book of Cold Reading: A Comprehensive Guide to the Most Persuasive Psychological Technique in the World.

This is a fascinating read on how "Pychics", "palm readers" et al, and how they peddle their flim flam.

I have read many books on debunking the above and the techniques they use. Some good, some not so. This book however, goes in detail of how they apply their circus act and how not to be fooled.

Anonymous said...

You state " I am aware of the "Casey Anthony Jury" and just how critical thinking has been discarded". I don't believe that is a fair assessment with this jury. The prosecution screwed the pooch and didn't present facts against the charges they brought. The presented facts against 2nd degree murder but charged her with first. Yes I think she killed her, disposed of her body and then was a horrible person after the fact along with her crazy parents but no I do not think she should have been convicted. I sure as hell wouldn't want to get accused of something and then have someone use that case law against me had she been convicted They didn't charge her right or try the case right. Just my 2 cents. Not all of us have lost critical thinking skills.

Statement Analysis Blog said...

"We believe that Casey killed her daughter, but just that the prosecution didn't prove it."

nuff said?

claiming no knowledge before the trial, they came to this conclusion because the prosecution proved its case.

I do know that some jurors were deliberately seeking 15 min of fame, but others were incapable of following an argument. They bought into each silly tangent set up by Baez.

I had much more on this, but edited it out; everything from our test grades to a judge stopping the release of the next butcher video from PP, to the trumping of science by "identity", but didn't have the stomach for it.

We are a dumbed down people, perhaps less educated than at any time in our history.

Statement Analysis Blog said...

DeOrre sr (father) showed extreme sensitivity about him being in his truck.
He also self-censored quite a bit and his butchering of pronouns was obvious.

If other statements of his exist, including recorded audio, I will analyze it.

Peter Hyatt

Trigger said...

I love what you write on this blog.
I love it when you expose "psychics" for the frauds that they really are.
I agree that they have personality disorders that compel them to prey on people who are in pain over the loss of a child. Their cruelty is abhorrent.

"We are a dumbed down people, perhaps less educated than at any time in our history."

Has anyone seen the "racial karma" display on the web with a crown on the head of Rueben Ebron?
It is appalling to me that people can be so cruel.

Sus said...

Thank you, Peter. You are the voice of reason in what has become a social media mess.

I have been here for years, first reading, and finally posting. I make lots of mistakes as Peter and other posters can attest to. But I keep soaking it in, honing my skills, and stay open to change.

One thing I have learned is just because someone has a sensitive area does not mean they committed the crime. We are not privy to what LE knows. We are not solving the crime. We are following along and hoping for resolution, honing our language analysis skills.

There are people (hordes of them) all over the Internet saying they know what happened to Little Deorr. No, they don't. We don't. We know from one sample that the timing of the 911 call and the truck is sensitive to the father. We know the mother shows no guilty knowledge from her 911 call and the one interview. That's it. We don't know why.

It hasn't been enough for Peter to call the father guilty, just to say he needs looked at. Of course he does. I'm sure LE is or has looked at him. Peter doesn't hesitate to make the call of guilty when the language leads him there.

lynda said...

Peter Wyatt...The parents released a small written statement in the last couple days.

“We continue to hope and pray that our ‘lil man’ will be found soon,” Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr., DeOrr’s parents, said in a short written statement to

They have adopted the "pet name" for him, they no longer state that they will stay at the campsite until he is found, no matter HOW LONG it takes, they say nothing of kidnapper or pleasding with someone to bring him back. the sentence before the statement, the newspaper reported the parents both feel that he is alive. They say "will be found soon" What is to be made of that? They use "we" and "our"

Juliet said...

Hi, Jessica - thanks for saving and posting all that, and wow! I have no truck with reverse speech, so was already sceptical about this guy, and am horrified by his claims, and especially by the way in which he has posted them on-line, with no consideration towards any of the family. His approach is so dogmatic to the extent that if anyone challenges or contradicts him, they are deleted, even the father of the missing child. He does not care that here is an opportunity to engage with him in a public forum, he is only concerned that DeOrr should not contradict his own version of events, or make him look bad (or worse, then, to some of us). He knows he's in with a very good chance of being 'proved' right because statistically speaking, when a baby or toddler disappears, the parents, one, other, or both are most likely to have caused it. Everything he has 'found' in his reversals casts a bad light on the parents, because that is all he intended, and intended anyone else, to 'hear'. I believe that he is banking on the statistics, and I very much hope he is proved wrong, and that his whole nasty operation is discredited. Even if it should turn out to be due to the parents, he will not be right, speech reversal will not have proved, or solved anything, as there is nothing to hear in the reversed speech, excepting that which some suggestible people are led to believe they can hear. If anything sounds intelligible and can be made to fit after the event, it is no more than coincidence.

He's so blind to reason, as he cannot see that the parents have no obligation, no reason to engage with him - as he admits on his page, DeOrr initially declined because he believed the intention was only to make him look bad, which it is. He is harassing the family, and reacting with outrage at their lack of 'co-operation' with him. He appears to have presented himself to DeOrr as someone who has driven sixteen hours only in order to help in the search, and is such a great guy he's even doing it with a broken/sprained ankle, be thankful, why don't you? Finding DeOrr is not his true motive, he wants, and already is, using his unhelpful day trip for publicity, and as a bat with which to bash others -you weren't there, you can't know, unless you've been up there yourself, etc - what a hero. It really is all about him.

Juliet said...

Continued from my previous post...

He is glad DeOrr is distraught over his missing son - in what context could anyone ever find it okay to say such a thing? In his world, the parents shouldn't care at all about being pursued by a megalomaniac who seems intent on drumming up hatred towards him, and who has already 'proved' that DeOrr was murdered for a life insurance pay out. He doesn't see that guilty OR innocent, they still would obviously prefer to not be portrayed in such a bad light, and by someone who has a band of happy followers, spreading the 'facts' around social media. He moves on to threaten THEM with whatever he has on camera, if they don't stop running their mouths. What does he so much not want them to say about him and their encounter? I hope if he does decide to do that, that it will not have been edited so as to remove his undoubtedly interesting words and behaviour.

He's in cloud cuckoo land if he believes he is in the (real) confidence of the police. That's how they work, calm, diffuse, humour, play along, see if the guy might know anything which might be of real interest. He also suspects that really he is not in their confidence, as he then goes on to accuse them of corruption. Well, they must be corrupt if they haven't taken him, and his bombshell revelations straight over to the FBI, to set them straight about how it all is. He knows stuff, he's in the loop, they're more or less depending upon him by now...what a self-deluded and unpleasant character he is.

He is critical, saying he heard DeOrr laughing as left the campsite, which he finds inappropriate and suspicious. I wouldn't find that, as people do still find things to laugh about, and see a funny side to some situations, even in dire and distressing circumstances, laughter is a release and helps preserve sanity. I'd be laughing too, at him, for trying to keep up the pretence of doing anything useful up there, with an ankle in that state. All the combined resources have not found DeOrr, but he, on his day trip with a broken ankle, thinks he might? He himself laughs hysterically, but that's not a problem to him, because, well, that's him.

That's my take on him, anyway. I have also ranted about him on the earlier DeOrr thread, around the comment four hundred mark. DeOrr's comments are interesting, but I haven't thought about them yet - too taken up with the reverse speech guy's antics.

Sus said...

"They have adopted the pet name for him."
Lil Man was stated as his nickname from the first day by his family and friends.

Our and we is expected when releasing a statement together.

"Will be found soon" speaks to closure, not an open ending.

Juliet said...

Oh, well - IF by any chance reverse speech guy REALLY is intent on helping establish the truth in this case, he will be taking up Peter's offer, and making haste in sending to him his unedited recordings of the incident/encounters with DeOrr. If he decides that's irrelevant, and not in the best interests of little DeOrr, or pretends to be unaware of this blog and its contents, that will be interesting.

Anonymous said...

"Will be found soon" noticeably omits words such as "alive" and "safe."

If anything good comes of the backwards speech guy, it could be that the pressure causes someone (Jessica, Deorr, Issac) to make a mistake, and lead LE to evidence.

Tania Cadogan said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You state " I am aware of the "Casey Anthony Jury" and just how critical thinking has been discarded". I don't believe that is a fair assessment with this jury. The prosecution screwed the pooch and didn't present facts against the charges they brought. The presented facts against 2nd degree murder but charged her with first. Yes I think she killed her, disposed of her body and then was a horrible person after the fact along with her crazy parents but no I do not think she should have been convicted


You think she killed and disposed of Caylee and then that she should not have been convicted of those crimes?

Tell me more

Juliet said...

He's sure to do the right thing and send the recordings? It can't do any harm to little DeOrr, but it might do some good. It's not a competition, or a game. If his motives are honourable, he will not need nor want to keep to himself anything which might help uncover the truth - he might even help redeem himself, and improve people's opinion of him, in the process. So, come on, reverse speech guy, do the right thing, if you haven't already.

Anonymous said...

Lyrics from a song (includes severals of Dad's spoken words)

Let's not fight, I'm tired, can't we just sleep tonight?
Don't turn away, it's just there's nothing left here to say
Turn around, I know we're lost but soon we'll be found.

lynda said...

Sus said : Sus said...
"They have adopted the pet name for him."
Lil Man was stated as his nickname from the first day by his family and friends.

Our and we is expected when releasing a statement together.

"Will be found soon" speaks to closure, not an open ending

Thank you! I misspoke regarding the "adopted' name. I meant that since everyone, everywhere on SM is calling him that, they are now saying it in SM instead of his name..which is okay since they did call him that. I knew that our and we was to be expected. I was really curious about the will be found soon". Could you explain why that speaks to closure instead of a "short time".

Anon @ 12:13said...
"Will be found soon" noticeably omits words such as "alive" and "safe."

That's what I thought exactly. Why not say that we hope he is home soon safe and well. Or alive? Unharmed? They no longer are asking for "someone" to bring him home safe or drop him off safe. Does this mean they also think he is no longer alive since they don't address this?

Peter...That would be awesome if that backwards guy would send you tapes but I think he is going to covet them because hey, he got something no one else could get. I'm also curious as to if parents read YOUR site and are perhaps being very careful of their language now.

ima.grandma said...

The search for 16-month old Deorr Kunz Jr., who disappeared from a Lemhi County Idaho campground in July has come to an end in Minnesota.

CBS affiliate WCCO-TV in Minneapolis reports that Kunz was found at a Stearns County campsite of five Idaho residents over the weekends. The five, who range from 18 to 54 years old are being held on suspicion of kidnapping.

WCCO reports that someone saw the group camping in the Birch Lakes State Campground and thought it was odd that they had covered up their vehicles with tarps.

The Stearns County Sheriff’s Office then investigated the campsite and made the discovery. The child, who was the subject of a search effort in Idaho, originally disappeared on July 10.

We'll have more on this developing story as information becomes available.

RELATED: Search for missing 2-year-old in Lemhi County suspended

ima.grandma said...

The search for 16-month old Deorr Kunz Jr., the Idaho child who disappeared from a Lemhi County campground in July, has come to an end in Minnesota.

CBS affiliate WCCO-TV in Minneapolis reports that Kunz was found at a Stearns County campsite of five Idaho residents over the weekends.

The five, who range from 18 to 54, are being held on suspicion of kidnapping.

The Stearns County Sheriff’s Office investigated the campsite after finding a second-degree kidnapping warrant for Joshua Michael Oquendo, 28, of Pocatello, Idaho.

Deputies arrested Oquendo, Samantha Landauer, 49, Jon Newman, 54, Travis Adams, 20, and Jorja Fouch, 18.

WCCO reports that someone saw the group camping in the Birch Lakes State Campground and thought it was odd that they had covered up their vehicles with tarps.

The Stearns County Sheriff’s Office then investigated the campsite and made the discovery.

The child, who was the subject of a search effort in Idaho, originally disappeared on July 10.


 Vigil held for missing Idaho toddler 

Search for missing Idaho toddler scaled back


Anonymous said...

That report is in error. The child found in MN was a 16 month old girl who was the subject of custodial interference.

ima.grandma said...

I can't control my tears. I'm on my knees thanking God. I am shaking.

Please don't let this be a mistake.

Anonymous said...

Neither the WCCO-TV website or Facebook page says anything about this that I could find.

Anonymous said...

A 16-month-old girl reported missing in Idaho was found safe Sunday night at a campground near Melrose, Minnesota.

Anonymous said...

It's not baby Deorr. Another child (girl) was found Sunday night.

Anonymous said...


The link you provided now says this:

Our Apologies
The page you requested is currently unavailable. Pages on this site are constantly being revised, updated, and occasionally removed

Anonymous said...

TV website falsely reports finding of DeOrr Kunz

Anonymous said...

The store is up for sale:

ima.grandma said...

I don't know what to say.

I'm numb. I feel like a foolish old woman. Something must be missing from my own life for me to feel so drawn to this little baby and to be affected this strongly. I'm going downstairs to invite my granddaughters to Braums for ice cream, right after I throw this iPad out the damn window.

Juliet said...

Ther's no reason to feel foolish, ima.grandma - it was the reporter's mistake not yours. How awful for the family, if they saw that and for a few minutes thought he had been found alive.

You maybe should chuck the iPad out of the window, but only if you're getting a new one. :)

Anonymous said...

ima.grandma...It is so hard to be overjoyed, only to then have that hope dashed.

Anonymous said...

Someone on another site said that they "had read" (but cited no source for this) that JM and DK were still grieving the loss of a previous child. Does anyone know if this is true? I haven't been able to find anything else about this.

Sus said...

It's ok, Ima.grandma.

Think what Little Deorr's parents feel like. ( if they have no guilty knowledge.) They have to had heard something, even to hear it was a false report. And had that small glimmer of hope in their heart. This is the nightmare Etan Patz's parents describe.

Anonymous said...

Aww. What a shame. I'm glad the little girl in Minn was found, but disappointed that it wasn't baby DeOrr. I was so in hopes that it was little DeOrr. For a moment there I felt a sense of surprise however, as I have not thought since the day he was reported missing that this child will be found alive, if at all. God, I hope I'm wrong.

While we may think momma Jessica may not have shown guilty knowledge in her call to 911, IMO she has shown some discrepancy in the statements that they took a ten minute walk, leaving as the baby was getting ready to take his nap, came back and found him missing; then later this absence from the campsite becomes an hour from the time they first discovered him missing and left him with elder great grandpa who was supposed to be watching him, who had no idea they had left the baby.

Jessica may not have shown guilty knowledge in her call to 911 (or did she; I'm not so sure about that?), but even if not, IMO this doesn't remove all doubt from her not having guilty knowledge. Just like Daddy DeOrr, I think she has created questionable suspicion in other areas of her statements that haven't been made clear.

As to wasting any of my time on the Backwards Speech guy; this is just another form of soothsayer, seer, psychic, witchcraft practices that God warns us against in many scriptures throughout the Bible. It is a dangerous thing to get caught up in, allowing demons into the lives of those who get involved. "Go not there." "Look not to the left, look not to the right, look straight ahead."

This applies to many areas of our lives, including this one. Best to heed Gods' warnings. It's not worth the risk of getting involved with this demonic behavior. Just be glad the creep has left the campsite, carrying his brand of witchcraft with him. People like him bring in more trouble and strife than anyone could ever imagine. Dire consequences are coming down on their head for their disobedience to God, including all those who follow them.

Peter, you are doing great with your statement analysis, BEYOND great, which is based on truth; you don't need to stir up your thoughts analyzing this gone-hay-wire misleading freak who is disobeying God and misleading his people. God has already spoken against what he and all psychics are doing and that's good enough. FWIW, just my thoughts.

Anonymous said...


Don't feel bad, it happens. Somebody made a HUGE journalistic mistake and it was not you. And you are not the only one who has never met this little boy yet really cares about him and just wants him found. Enjoy your Braum's and your time with your grandkids! I'm no longer living in a part of the country where they have Braum's, but a Braum's chocolate shake sounds so good!

John Mc Gowan said...



Someone screwed up big time. I'm sure whomever is was will face the consequences, employment wise. Try not to be so hard on yourself. You care, and have invested a lot in this case emotionally, like many others, myself included. I had to take a step back a week or so ago. It left emotionally drained.

Sending you a big hug.



I like ice cream too. It may melt by the time you send me some across the pond though. I will let you have mine :)

lynda said...

Peter, John, sus, there any info that can be gleaned off of the FB posts of DeorrSr. to the backwards guy that Jessica posted above?

Tania Cadogan said...

off topic

Hours before 10-year-old Barway Collins was reported missing, his enraged father punched him until he was unconscious, duct-taped his body and threw him into the Mississippi River.

“I killed my son,” Pierre Collins said Monday in Hennepin County District Court, describing his actions on March 18 outside their Crystal apartment building after the boy had been dropped off by his school van. “I hit him and he fell.”

After months of insisting that he had nothing to do with the boy’s disappearance and death, Collins, 33, pleaded guilty to second-degree intentional murder before a packed and emotional courtroom. He was sentenced to 40 years in prison.

Barway Collins’ body was found in a stretch of the river in the north metro on April 11. His death, the almost-two-week search for his body and the charges against his father have been a confusing, wrenching experience for the Twin Cities’ large Liberian-American community. Monday’s plea negates the need for a trial that had been set for January.

Collins, who originally had faced first-degree murder charges, was given a longer sentence than is called for by state guidelines because Barway was vulnerable and because hiding his body was particularly cruel, said Hennepin County Judge Tanya Bransford.

His “actions caused great pain … to the whole community,” she said. “It is unimaginable that a parent would kill their own child.”

Collins’ confession of how he became angry with his son, beat him, then dumped him into the river drew gasps and cries from courtroom observers, including Yamah Collins, Barway’s stepmother; Louise Karluah, Barway’s birth mother, who traveled from Liberia after his death, and Pierre Collins’ former wife, Jennifer Beaver, the mother of four of his children.

All three women took care of Barway at some point. Karluah and relatives cared for him in Liberia before he was sent at age 5 to the United States to join his father, who had emigrated. Beaver cared for Barway during her marriage to Collins, but was unable to get custody of him when they divorced. She is the mother of two children with Collins, who also adopted her two children from a previous relationship. Yamah, Collins’ current wife, the mother of two other children, cared for Barway most recently.

At one point, Karluah fell from her chair in shock and grief. She later was escorted into a hallway before returning to make an unplanned victim-impact statement. She was unable to speak clearly, so a friend, Victoria Peabody, took the stand to say they are both “broken and lost.”

Tania Cadogan said...

“I went to Mr. Collins’ house and prayed with him,” Peabody said. “I just feel so dirty because I held his hand. … Louise is so lost.”

Karluah said she forgives Collins and is relieved that he pleaded guilty. She said that if Collins hadn’t wanted their son, he should have sent him back to his native Liberia. “It’s not right. Not feeling good right now. … I’ve been praying for justice,” Karluah said. “Barway is a very special child to me.”

Yamah Collins and Beaver separately embraced Karluah before and after the hearing.

Beaver, who has alleged that Collins abused her and their children, said she cannot forgive him.

“Just hearing him say that he murdered my son — how could you do that?” Beaver said after the hearing. “So you mean to tell me you beat him so bad and you duct-taped him and threw him in the water like nothing?”

Yamah Collins, who had stood by Pierre’s side since Barway’s disappearance, shook her head and walked away when asked if she would continue to support him.

‘We found justice for Barway’

In confessing to Barway’s murder, Collins told the judge that he became angry with the boy when he misbehaved as he played outside after arriving home from school. “I was really mad at him,” Collins said. “I hit him … he fell. He wasn’t responding, so I took him to the water. … I intended to kill my son.”

Collins said he was fearful because he knew he would be in trouble, so he taped the boy’s arms and legs and threw him into the river in an attempt to hide the body.

He also asked for sympathy, saying, “I want everybody in the community to forgive me.” But afterward, some of his family members said they were dismayed that it took him so long to tell the truth and disappointed by the plea deal.

County Attorney Mike Freeman said after the hearing that Barway’s body remained underwater until he was found 26 days later by volunteer searchers. Authorities have not been able to establish an exact cause of death.

The guilty plea brings “some justice for Barway’s family,” Freeman said.

“The last thing we know that Barway Collins said is, ‘There’s my dad,’ ” Freeman said, referring to video footage of Barway taken in his school van. “And he said it in a voice of being excited to see the person he loved. He’s gone. None of us can explain or comprehend how a father could kill his son. We don’t know exactly what happened … [but] there’s some justice for Barway’s family and for little Barway, as well.”

Crystal Police Chief Stephanie Revering, who joined Freeman at the news conference, said Monday was the “culmination of our search for justice for Barway Collins.” Crystal police, with help from other agencies, searched for the boy for weeks “hoping to bring him home safe, but knowing that someone close to him was likely responsible for his disappearance,” she said.

“We can never bring him back,” Revering said. “But today we can finally close this case knowing that we found justice for Barway.”

Twitter: @KarenAnelZamora

Anonymous said...

Backward Speech guy broke his ankle while searching. On his Facebook page, Laurie Meadows Kunz posted this: "To [sic] bad it wasn't Your Neck." Slippage?

Anonymous said...

I'mAGrandma; this was entirely an accident on your part, having been misled by unreliable media sources. DON'T feel bad. I was ready to rejoice with you, especially since I have had my doubts that this baby will be found alive, if at all. I would be SOOo happy to find myself wrong and this baby found alive.

I felt the same way you felt, like an idiot, when I googled missing Crystal Rogers, Realtor in Bardstown, Ky and it went right to a link for Crystal Rogers in another state. I didn't notice that this was a different Crystal Rogers, while I sat here posting what a successful realtor she was, which she was; ANY real estate agent who can carry 54 open listings is almost unheard of. Many small real estate offices with 10 to 20 agents don't carry this many listings throughout the entire office on a monthly average of new listings and deals closed. In fact, the most I've ever heard of being carried at one time by one agent was an average of 30 listings.

So yeah, I was badly misled. But it WAS an accident on my part, just as this was. We all make a mistake or two occasionally, right?

Enjoy your ice cream! Hope your dental problem is all better...

John Mc Gowan said...

TV website falsely reports finding of DeOrr Kunz

BOISE – A CBS TV station in Montana has incorrectly reported that a missing 2-year-old Idaho boy has been found safe at campsite in Minnesota. The story has gone viral.

KPAX, Channel 8, which serves Missoula and western Montana, reported on its website this morning that the search for DeOrr Kunz Jr. had come to an end in Minnesota. In their story, they credited a report from WCCO-TV, a CBS affiliate in Minneapolis, that DeOrr was found in a campsite in Stearns County with five residents from Idaho. It went to say those people are being held on suspicion of kidnapping.

KTVB contacted the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office Tuesday morning and they told us that DeOrr has not been found, and the story is wrong. DeOrr has been missing since he went camping with his family near Leadore, Idaho on July 10. An expansive search for the boy has turned up empty. The sheriff's office is continuing its investigation.

Earlier today, we published an Associated Press story about a Pocatello man, Joshua Oquendo, who was arrested at a campground in central Minnesota. Oquendo failed to show up for a custody hearing last week with his 1-year-old daughter.

He was taken into custody at the Birch Lakes State Campground near Melrose after a caller reported a group of suspicious campers had covered their vehicles with tarps and had Idaho license plates.

The Stearns County Sheriff's Office says had an arrest warrant for kidnapping and child custody interference. Four others were arrest and face possible charges of aiding an offender.

Since the incorrect story was posted on the KPAX website, they have taken down the link and posted an apology on their Facebook page.

Anonymous said...

The best anyone can do is to stay away from the Backwards Speech guy. Just getting in discussions with possessed people like him and all the many deceived psychics of various types can lead to troubles in your own life.

As to wishing him a broken neck? Nah... Sorry to say, but God already has his own plans for this guy. We wouldn't be able to alter the course of his life and others like him even if we tried.

Anonymous said...

Vicki said:

Oh my gosh! I had never heard of 'backward speech' before. What hogwash!

Sus said...

In the Lisa Irwin and Ayla Reynolds case there were "investigators" (I use that term loosely) like the backward speech guy. They were also experts, or used experts in certain fields to "know" who killed the missing child. It was found both of those were using the same IP address as a scammer in the Caylee Anthony case. They also posted falsely as participants in the family.

I do not trust any Facebook quote from backward speech guy. I'll wait for quotes from a reliable source. Unfortunately there are not many. One parent interview, one short statement from the parents, the mother's 911 call, and anything from the sheriff. Oh, and Isaac Reinwand's mumbo jumbo.

Anonymous said...

I wish I knew if he actually used the words "my son" (as opposed to "our son" or "Deorr").

Sus said...

Oh, and look carefully at the backward speech guy's narcissistic rant, and that's what it is. He's only listing hot points anyone can pick up in the news. His latest- the time of arrival. Yeah, it's been discussed ad nauseum in comments. Pick out his points. You will see. They are points commenters mention.

Jessica Blans said...

I doubt backward guy would provide tape for Peter Hyatt, but I will post a request for him to do so. I'd like to be wrong. May I ask if statement analysis typically uses tapes as opposed to transcripts. I think I may have missed that point. I know the talk should be in the free-editing phase for accuracy, but I hadn't considered if tapes are the best (or only way) to ensure this. I think I assumed that written forums such Facebook, which are often written with little to no pre-thought or editing, would also be good choices to use. Especially when grammar and spelling are so poorly executed, because it is a sign of lack of editing. I'm new to this, so it would be helpful to know if my new understanding is accurate. I appreciate the teaching spirit that permeates this blog. It is inspiring.

Thank you all for the responses and ideas. You've provided a lot of thought-provoking content above. A few posts stood out to me in particular:

Ima.grandma - you have a tender and compassionate heart and this a virtue. God bless you.

Juliet, Thanks so much for your comments above. You gave me more to think about. In particular when you pointed out the backwards guy's (I want to call him the "backwards guy" rather than the "backwards speech guy" -- I notice John Mcgowan did this, and I like it) rather odd wording/sentiment about the parents not cooperating with him. Isn't it to be expected that they would NOT want to cooperate after he has been openly hostile, not to mention that his career is as a comedic hypnotist (therefore little credibility) and his analysis technique of backwards speech is BS. If we are supposed to think about what is expected, I don't think backwards guy is doing this.

Similarly, since we do not expect DeOrr's parents to respond positively to backwards guy, why do they (he. The father)? Does DeOrr Sr's responses make sense in this light?

John Mcgowan, I also appreciate your response and the contradiction between two of backward guy's statements. Is he reversing himself or is this a more subtle contradiction that might be explained if we better understand how he is defining his word choices?

I have not heard any discussion of another child of DeOrr Sr and Jessica who passed away. Jessica does have two other children who live with their biological father, and outward appearances make it seem like their relationship is amicable-ish.

Does everyone find themselves analyzing their own statements when they write? I've eliminated the first and last name of Keelen Marston and distanced myself by referring to him with a nickname.


Sus said...

I can't stop, sorry. He and his minions love to say that letter first mentioned Issac Reinwand. There were 175 people up there searching. I bet everyone of those LOCALS knew who was on that trip. I saw it on Facebook from a girl claiming to have dated him. Though given she couldn't spell his name. Haha.

Juliet said...

Anon at 3.47 - I saw that post from grandma Kunz, too, in a screen capture on his page; it made me smile and came across as sarcastic dry humour written in a moment's anger at the guy who is so dissing her son. She constantly posts the missing posters of DeOrr, and she, alone of the family, I think, has posted the tribute YouTube video by Stephani Burkman aka JustaGirl several times on her page.

Juliet said...

And she's not just a girl, she's a grown adult with children - so weird how some women still like to see or present themselves as girls, but this is to go off track.

Anonymous said...

I really wish this whole family would concentrate their efforts on finding that poor child. They remind me so much of the Ron Cummings/Misty Croslin clan. (And Haleigh Cummings is still missing.)

Juliet said...

Sus, could he really be quite so low as to have authored the letter himself? His reverse speech is bunkum, but he has invested his credibility in it, and probably believes in it himself, or at least in its power to persuade. He presents his tapes as supporting 'evidence' and enthuses on about it, he very wants to be considered credible. Writing the letter, though would be an act of conscious and deliberate fraud, and mischievous beyond measure, causing untold stress to grandma Clegg, and to her friends, at least, as they would come under suspicion as having written it. It would have such potential to cause trouble in the already distraught family, that I don't think he would have done that. If he had, and it was discovered, any credibility he might have amongst his followers (doubtful, as so many claim to believe in and support him one hundred percent) would be totally undermined.

Also, why would grandma Clegg go into a panic and delete all those Local News 8 Facebook posts if there was nothing in the questions concerning the letter to have caused that response? She only did that at the point questions were posed in regard to the letter. So, I think there is something to the letter, whilst also acknowledging I might be wrong. I also think he is a total heel for putting it out there that he had received the letter, when he should have just passed it quietly on to LE - presumably, if he has nothing to hide and genuinely wants to help, he will already have done that, and without being asked. Perhaps in his excitement he didn't stop to consider it might have been written by someone in the family - he just wanted to put it out there, with no serious regard to possible consequences.

Juliet said...

Backward guy might be dangerous but nobody could ever accuse him of thinking too much. :)

John Mc Gowan said...

Have i missed something.? What's all this about a "letter"?

Sus said...

I made my homemade laundry soap today. I use the Duggar recipe. I bet it's a lot easier with 19 children to do the work.

Juliet said...

Jessica - Itvwould seem odd that DeOrr is not writing with hostility towards this guy. It's all so garbled, but the impression I have, and it's only an impression, from DeOrr's comments, is that they met this guy in the store, who told them he had travelled sixteen hours to help in the search, and DeOrr thanked him, and was sorry he'd injured his ankle - this before he discovered who he was - but once he had worked it out, he said no longer wanted his help, because he knows his idea of help is in 'proving' the parents are guilty, and in bad mouthing them online, and spreading the 'fact' that they are murderers, because 'reverse speech is never wrong'.. There is no sane reason for DeOrr to want this man's help, whether he is guilty or innocent, so it's interesting that he tries to be conciliatory, but maybe he thinks it's the best way to deal with a madman, just humour, try not to provoke him further, until he goes away. DeOrr says he 'never' threatened him, which I think might mean he did. I don't find a great problem with that, because this man is persecuting and denigrating them online, and it's natural to be defensive of himself, and of Jessica, especially bearing in mind that he's an unsophisticated truck driver rather than say, a politician. I think DeOrr won't be even a little happy to sit down and talk with this guy, and that he won't find occasion to do that, as he knows it will not help find his son. He said he'd be happy to do that IF it would help, but obviously it won't, not in and of itself, as reverse speech is nonsense.

It seems they both behaved badly and have threatened one another. Reverse speech guy is going to provide more 'proof', his own very interesting quote marks, if DeOrr does not shut up. But why should DeOrr shut up, reverse speech guy, when the more he says, the better? Doesn't he want more material to play with on his tape recorder? What did he say or do to DeOrr and Jessica that he so desperately doesn't want his one hundred percent supportive followers to know about? What's his obsession about the evils of gossip, when he's been so busily feeding the never satisfied appetite for it, and with the most scurrilous type?

All very curious.

Juliet said...

John - early on in the case reverse speech guy claimed to have received a letter from one of grandma Clegg's friends, asking for help on her behalf, and confiding concerns that grandpa in his frail state had been taken on the camping trip, and suspicions that the trip was a cover-up to stage the disappearance. I believe he may have posted it briefly online on his website but soon removed it. He apparently received threats. That's all I know, and I did not see the letter.

Juliet said...

OT - Is it any good, Sus? Those Duggar tator tots look lethal. And only the one kid, the haunted looking one at the time, got to do all that laundry. It should have been obvious then that something was going on with that poor girl. Crazy people, IMO.

Juliet said...

Retrospectively, I wonder if all that laundry duty was a form of punishment for her (possibly) being the one who had caused all that upset in the family by daring to cast such inconvenient aspersions on the darling Josh. I suppose this is very off-topic, so that's goodnight from me. :)

Amanda said...

Amen to the blog post. Amen to the Casey Anthony jury comment by the blogger.

lynda said...

Thanks Sus! I do agree that there are no other words for what BSG (bkward speech guy) posted. HUGE narcissistic rant with a dab of petulant child. WOW. There is no way he will share anything ,assuming he has something to share, with anyone because he wants it ALL. I'll stick with Peter and all you folks if you don't mind.

lgjproduct said...

I have completely missed out on this backwards speech guy & the encounter. I can't find anything about this situation anywhere so have been following the comments with interest.

Buckley said...

So are there actual examples of backwards speech we can hear? Or are we supposed to take his word for it?

~mj said...

Google "reverse speech deorr"... And it will all become clearer. Warning is as exactly as Mr. Hyatt explains, pure tripe and unworthy of giving credit to it. It is horribly presumptuous of the person behind it and frightening how many people listen to it.

John Mc Gowan said...

Thanks, Juliet

Did anyone manage to get a screen shot of the alleged "letter" backward guy received and posted, if indeed he did get one.


John Mc Gowan said...

Redondo girl still missing, police seek information

As of Wednesday it has been a full week since 16-year-old Emily Espinosa of Redondo Beach was last reportedly seen at Mira Costa High School.
Espinosa's mom, Krista Valdez says her daughter never threatened to run away. She just wants to know that her daughter is safe.

“I just want to know that she is not in a ditch somewhere. She didn't seem mad in the days before she went missing, but if she is mad or something, I just want her to call someone to let someone know that she is okay,” Valdez said. “At this point if she did run away, I don't care why, I am just worried about her. It's like she vanished. Just went poof.”

Espinosa was last seen when Valdez dropped her off at 8 a.m at Costa on Wednesday, July 22. Espinosa did not have a cell phone or bank cards with her.
Redondo Beach Police Lt. Wayne Windman said there is no evidence of foul play in the case. It appears that she ran away, he said.

Her mother thinks that someone has seen her daughter or knows where she is.
“It's been a whole week and no one has seen anything. If she ran away she would have to have help, she couldn't have just walked away,” Valdez said. “It's like my kid vanished off the face of the Earth,” she said. “She's never done anything like this.”
Police are focusing the investigation locally. Windman said he believes she is somewhere in the area.

Espinosa is described as having short brown hair, brown eyes, weighs 112 pounds and is 5 feet 8 inches tall. If anyone has any information of her whereabouts, please contact the RBPD at (310) 379-2477.

Anonymous said...

John Mc Gowan said...

He's at it again! backward guy. Geez, what a narcissist!

Cindy Griesenbrock Kellen, maybe be slightly wary of that one Deputy who wants you only to share with him. He could have an ulterior motive, yes? Why, and in what way, would the Feds be corrupt, I wonder?? Local LE, MAYBE, but the FBI? I don't get it. Maybe I'm naive, but I assume the FBI would be the most objective and unbiased of all. Just think it through thoroughly, I guess. Let your instincts be your guide. Hell, maybe even just bypass all the various LE, and if you end up with provable knowledge or evidence, contact one of the national media outlets that have featured the story. Tell them you'll tell, or show, a reporter what you know, but only if both your and their cameras are on! That way, you'd have proof of being the one to pass on info to the reporter, and not get screwed(so to speak) by one who would attempt to steal credit for finding significant evidential information! Just watch your back, at the very least, and keep on keeping on.
Like · Reply · 2 · Yesterday at 04:54

Hmmmm... And you already told someone of an "official" capacity? If so, Kellen, they might intend to look further into it, and ultimately take credit. If that's a concern, maybe write a letter about it, but mail it TO yourself via certified mail, and don't open it upon receipt! It could serve as proof later, by an unbiased third party who would open it, that you knew of it, and when you shared the info. The sooner you mail it to yourself, the better, as it will have a date of sending and receiving on the receipts for each postal transaction. That way if LE try's to say: "we found (or learned) --- on 08/--/15..." you'd have proof that you found it first. Write your letter with specific details and include dates and times relevant to your research and findings thus far, and just mail it CERTIFIED to yourself, and do not break the seal until/if necessary, and by a NEUTRAL third party who will bear witness. No harm in being overly cautious, right?

Backward Speech I'm not concerned about getting credit for anything. This isn't about me but a little boy. I don't believe the FBI is corrupt. I believe it's the local police in the area that may have some officers who are corrupt.

"I'm not concerned about getting credit for anything".

"This isn't about me"

Keep this in mind for later.

Cindy Griesenbrock Okay, well I know credit is not your driving force, but if it belongs to you, there's no shame in allowing it. You can accept it with however much humbleness you possess! It would be a way to add to data that might eventually show a far less debatable correlation between your science and its results, though! Thus, eventually gaining far greater "acceptance". That's what I was thinking. Not so much personal credit, but advancement for the recognition of the investigative value of speech reversals. That's all I meant. (Keep that foot up as much as possible, Kellen! )

Backward Speech. It would bring a great acceptance that I agree. I believe that when the truth unfolds most people will know it came from here.

Is this not a form of taking credit?

Note. He doesn't say it came from "Me" but rather "here" he does not take ownership of what information he alledgedly has, but shares (distancing) his yet to be known information within his page. "it wasn't just me that got it wrong officer. I share this site with other people"!

John Mc Gowan said...

Backward guy

I removed DeOrr's comments because this page will NOT become a gossip page. There are plenty of groups for that. This page is about my findings and my facts. Getting into a bitching match with DeOrr on Facebook takes away the real focus which is finding this little boy. I am beyond offended he would even comment on my Facebook page. Why does he need to defend himself if he has done nothing wrong? Why is he worried about what I'm doing or saying?
I'm glad that DeOrr is so distraught by the loss of his son, that he has time to worry about what I'm doing. He's simply doing damage control. He wanted nothing to do with us yesterday, but now he wants our help. I'm not that ignorant.
Those who believe I should leave his comments and argue with him so you can have some gossip to watch unfold, I won't participate in that. Do you people not realize how absurd it is this family only cares about defending their reputation. There is damn child missing. I will not support DeOrr's actions.
Where was DeOrr last night when people were out until 11:30 pm looking for his boy? He left the mountain at 4:00 pm and was joking and laughing. It's like he completely forgot that he just got done searching for his child and DIDN'T find him and this was some how funny to him. I'd personally be heart broken. I'd go up each day with hope, but come down with sadness. His behavior is so in congruent.
My advice to people who want drama and gossip. Before you talk you can first get up and go put some effort into finding DeOrr. I have a family, kids and commitments like everyone else has, but I drove 16 hours one way to search for him on my own dime. If these people "talking" would put that effort into helping find this boy it's amazing what we could accomplish.
As I've done from day one, I will not get involved in the gossip. I'm more involved in this situation than people may know at this point. Despite what DeOrr believes, the FBI was not "asked" by him to come. The family is under a microscope right now and they will do and say anything to keep there "act" going.
The police that were out with us until 11:30 pm last night one of the deputies made a very bold statement, "I was with the parents through all of this, until today, as I noticed something odd about DeOrr when I was helping him search this morning."
Further, there is a shit load of corruption going on I won't get into, but I will say, that after DeOrr was asked to go home, the deputy looked at us and said, "If you know or find anything you contact me ONLY, do you understand?" For some reason they do not want any information going to the FBI or Bonneville County.
I owe no one any justification as to why I do what I do. This gossip has nothing to do with me. I have one job, to find a child. All these "gossip rangers" forgot something. It's not about the family, it's not about anyone else. It's about finding a baby, regardless of who they believe is responsible. Everyone has lost sight of this.
I'm more involved in this than people realize. Even DeOrr and his family are completely ignorant to the fact that law enforcement are telling them what they want to hear, but there is much more operating in the background.

John Mc Gowan said...


DeOrr can keep "acting" and putting on a show, but I have another bombshell to drop. But it will be put out through one of the biggest news outlets in America. I've been asked specifically to not release this information. However, I found it and therefore I have the right to distribute it.
DeOrr is terrified of me, despite what he says. He will say or do anything to get me to stop talking and he tried today to be "my friend" typical of someone who has something to hide. Should he or his family continue to run their mouth, I will toss some new "proof" into this mix. DeOrr and Jessica are weak and they have already made so many mistakes and the FBI and police know this. Such as when they REALLY got to the mountain.
Having driven up to the camp sight yesterday I realized there is no way in Hell this could have been an abduction. Many people are talking, yet they have never even been up to the where the couple camp. I encourage people to go up to the campsite and see if for themselves and they would whistle a different tune.
Trust me, the police after last night are also looking at this differently. DeOrr is pissed, I spent 4 hours with police. He thought he had them in his pocket, but he is wrong. I ask those that want to gossip or give their opinion, to take their own money, come out to Idaho and search for him on their own before they sit back and run their mouths.
The gossip can stay in the groups, but it WON't be done on my Facebook page. My page is about facts and truth, not about gossip. I have no desire to have DeOrr comment on my page. Are gossip rangers that ignorant they can't see between the line as to what he is doing. Who in their right mind goes on a Facebook page and defends themselves if they have nothing to hid.
If you come here starting drama or gossip I will remove you. It is not productive to finding the missing boy. Again, this is about a missing child. where is his justice? When can he rest in peace?
You want to know where DeOrr is? Asked DeOrr, DeOrr Sr, and Jessica. They know exactly what they did. This couple is weak and they will break! The more people who put pressure on them, the more people turn on their inconsistencies the sooner they will make a mistake. People are free to believe what they want, but unless you have the facts and information I do, you can bring your gossip to someplace else.
The ignorance in people is shocking, how hard is it to read between the lines of this couple. Lastly, as DeOrr is so concerned with what I say I know he'll read this. DeOrr, you might want to tell your family and yourself to chill out on the harassment. We have the Facebook messages you and your family have sent as well as the harassing phone calls done today against those who are working with me and WANTING to help you find your son. It doesn't look good for you and frankly makes no sense. I will not hesitate to throw some evidence. Try me.
Shit, DeOrr, I ended up in the emergency room looking for your son, yet I still went out and hobbled around all day looking for your son until 11:30 pm. Where were you? I'd be living on that mountain if my child went missing and I had nothing to do with it.

Anonymous said...

MJ; re your post @12:27 a.m., "reverse speech deorr".... "horribly presumptuous... many people listen to it..." You have warned rightly.

It is dangerous to become involved with these activities and those practicing them; parapsychology (spirit writing), numerology, reverse speech, ouija board, astrology, psychics, seers, soothsayers, those calling up the spirits of the dead, or the practice of other activities from the realm of the spirit world.

It is dangerous to the soul, the spirit and the mind to delve into these matters. Do not kid yourselves, you are not playing a mindless game when you start messing with these spirit matters and those who do; the spirit world is very much alive and deceitful on this earth, and very easy to fall under their persuasion of being misled. You'll be so sorry if you do. Don't be fooled. They even bring God and prayer into their trickery and deceit as it to prove they are religious and have God's blessings, anything to lure you in. They don't. This is not to be taken lightly.

God, and those He sent to us to help us; Jesus, the Angels, those righteous in the heavenlies who pray for us day and night; already has enough to do trying to look after us in this dark place; God, Jesus, the Angels, fight for our lives and our souls day and night. He sends the only true light we have. Be warned.

Anonymous said...


Today My Fear Came True.

July 20, 2015 at 2:59pm

My name is Julie. My entire life I have been an athlete. I have excelled in all things athletic. I was on the track team in high school and college, as well as a cheerleader in high school and college. In the summer of 2005 I was diagnosed with Mononucleosis. I was unaware of this and continued to train hard in my collegiate sports. I thought my excessive fatigue, sore throat, headache, and over all sickness was due to being a freshman living in the dorms. It is not uncommon to get sick in that environment. However, my symptoms progressed and I went to the dr. As soon as I learned about the mono, I immediately stopped these activities.

Six months later I began fainting, my heart would race, I was nauseous, had migraines, along with other debilitating symptoms. I knew something was wrong when I could no longer walk to my mailbox without being short of breath and having to sit down for several minutes before I made my way back to my house. I went to the dr and they told me it was nothing. They said if I had anything, it was anxiety. I knew they were wrong. I knew my body and I knew something was very wrong. After many months searching for answers, I finally found a doctor who changed my life with a few simple words, "I believe you." Together he and I began the journey to find out why my quality of life had decreased in such drastic ways. After many tests, I was diagnosed with Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) My physician believed because of the mono and my continued activity, the mono destroyed my autonomic system, which controls all things in the body that are automatic. This illness effects literally every organ in the body.

It causes my bp to be dangerously low and my heart rate critically high. I have GI issues and my body cannot withstand the pool of gravity, so the blood drops to my feet, which can cause a loss of consciousness. Due to this, I am unable to stand for long periods of time or walk long distances. Along with many more life altering aliments. Being a young person with an invisible chronic illness is one of the hardest things I've ever dealt with. People think I look fine, so I am not sick. It isn't that I'm looking for sympathy, but respect and compassion. It has been an incredible odyssey going from a vibrantly healthy person to someone living with a chronic illness. My life before I was sick is much different now that I am.

I am unable to keep up with my friends and my pride often keeps me from asking for help. Sadly, the disbelief of others around me has caused me to remain silent about my illness. It is like I am being punished for being sick. They think if I just eat better or sleep more, I would be cured, but that couldn't be further from the truth. POTS symptoms are always changing, they come and go, and appear in many different combinations. No one POTS patient is treated medically the same. The symptoms I have today, I may not have tomorrow. I can be fine one minute and on the floor the next. It is very hard to make plans due to the unpredictably of this horrible syndrome.

Anonymous said...

OT cont.

My doctor issued me a handicapped parking tag. I have always been afraid of what others would say and I often sit in my car until I feel no one is around so that they won't judge me or accuse me of using the system. I am sick. I didn't choose this and it isn't my fault. I would give anything to be healthy again. I would give anything to have one day of freedom. Just because a person looks fine does not mean they are. There are many illnesses that go unnoticed to the untrained eye. Illnesses such as, heart failure, cystic fibrosis, MS, POTS, Asthma, Lupas, and countless others. Being handicapped isn't always a wheelchair or crutches. Some illnesses manifest themselves internally and destroy the body from within. I have one of those illnesses.

Today my worst fear came true. So many emotions flooded my mind. I was hurt, I was angry, I wanted my voice to be heard, but this person is a coward and could not tell me what he/she thought to my face. This person incorrectly perceived my situation, because it is impossible for someone my age to have an illness. This person doesn't know me or my struggles. They don't know what this illness has taken from me. They don't see the countless nights I cry myself to sleep, soaking my pillow with tears, pleading - praying for God to heal me. They don't see the weakness, the pain, the symptoms that are very real, but only I can feel. They don't understand, and until it happens to them they never will.

However it is up to us to tell our story and to raise awareness. As I said not all things are visible. The person who wrote me such a hateful note is also handicapped. This person has a mental handicap disguised as ignorance. And even though I am sick, I don't always park in the handicapped parking. I only do so on my bad days. And sometimes even on my bad days I won't park there because someone else might be having a worse day. And other times, I am just too afraid to be attacked, ridiculed, and judged like I was today.

This is only a small part of my story and truly no words can give my battle justice. This morning I walked out to my car, and as I said, my worst fear came true. I was accused of faking. My illness was invalidated. My fight appeared to be in vain. My pride was shattered and my story was disrespected.

To the person who wrote me that note. Shame on you! I pray you are never faced with the struggles I am every minute of every day. I pray that someone you love who is ill is never treated the way you have treated me. I pray you open your eyes and your heart to the people around you and exercise compassion, as you abandon your need to hurt others. You are obviously a very angry and unhappy soul. I pray you find peace and love in your life. And finally, I hope you are never a victim to a life altering illness and experience the cruelty I experienced today because of you.

A handicap comes in all shapes and sizes. Don't judge someone by the way they look. If you are unsure, approach me and ask me about my illness. I am always happy to share my story and raise awareness, because if it reaches even one life or inspires one person, or helps many more, it was worth it.

My name is Julie and I have POTS. Today my illness was invalidated, but it doesn't make my illness any less real or my fight any less important. I will continue to park in the handicap spot and i will raise my head high and continue to join the fight in searching for a cure. Please share my story. Please help me make a difference.

With Love,


Juliet said...

Reverse speech guy has been busily editing and toning down the claims on his business website - some changes have been made since I looked at it yesterday. Baby DeOrr is no longer the victim of 'a cold blooded murder' . There is more use of 'maybe', 'possibly' and 'perhaps'. He still concludes that DeOrr Jr was in fact murdered, but now believes the parents were 'involved', and is no longer baldly stating that DeOrr killed his son. He justifies what he imagines to be the judicious editing with this:

'If you read our previous article, you will notice several changes. Since publishing our first article we have received hundreds of tips, letters, and emails in regards to this case and most are from people very close to the family, as well as past employers of the individuals, family friends, even relatives. With this new information we are able to verify the accuracy of our speech reversals and create an even better theory of what happened or who is responsible for the disappearance of DeOrr Jr.'

Yes, there are quite a few changes, in that he has edited his own words in an attempt to make them less defamatory. What's he going to do about all the words he has put into the parents' mouths through what he claims they have said and done through the reversals, though? If he had no doubts, he would not be frantically editing his website following his encounter with the parents, or modifying his interpretations of the 'reversals'.

'Based on all the information gathered during this analysis, I conclude that DeOrr. Jr. was in fact murdered. I believe the parents were involved. However, I believe this situation goes much deeper than meets the eye and others may also be involved. As we continue our investigation we are starting to see the bigger picture and things are becoming very clear as to what happened.'

Also, just for info:

'This is our first big update into the disappearance of DeOrr Jr. We must mention that we are not working with law enforcement or affiliated with them in anyway. Our findings are based strictly on independent investigations. We've been blessed to have a very strong psychic join our team. She has assisted in a number of missing person cases and to date has never been wrong.'

Trigger said...

I read that Brooks Houck said that he is working "behind the scenes" when he was confronted by Crystal's Rogers family about his lack of interest in helping searchers to actively search for Crystal.

I shook my head when I read it. Brooks has found a soft pillow to snuggle in while the searchers tread hills, meadows, woods, brush, and lakes, in the heat, to find Crystal.

Anonymous said...

Baby Deorr's Dad: "I remember them telling me that they um asked the search and rescues to go look over because there was an orange insect repellent can they think by the bank and they were DEAD ON [emphasis added]."

Anonymous said...

Jessica: "Just leave him at a store where somebody else will see him." Alibi reference? Or did JM and DK leave him at the store during their visit there? Slippage?

Anonymous said...

JM: "the minute I called my Mom and she was up there in a matter of hours." Grandma was there by 4:48 pm, so exactly when did Jessica call her?

Anonymous said...

Right after she called 911 apparently.

Anonymous said...

I'm actually wondering if JM called her Mom before she called 911.

John Mc Gowan said...

"'This is our first big update into the disappearance of DeOrr Jr. We must mention that we are not working with law enforcement or affiliated with them in anyway. Our findings are based strictly on independent investigations. We've been blessed to have a very strong psychic join our team. She has assisted in a number of missing person cases and to date has never been wrong.

Note the pronouns "We" and "our" this is a need to share and hide amongst a crowd.

Whom is "We, we've" and "our" he speaks of?

Note the word "with" distancing language. This maybe appropriate if he is not working "with" "law enforcement or affiliates" Or that he feels pushed out?

Note the passivity in his language.

What is the "first big update"
"Our finding" What are their findings?

We've been blessed to have a very strong psychic join our team.

Note "very strong" is unnecessary. It qualifies the statement thus weakening it.

Note also. No social introduction regarding his "team" and the "very strong psychic" This maybe due to them not wanting their identification known. Although, if as he says "She has assisted in a number of missing person cases and to date has never been wrong. Why if she has "never been wrong", would "she" not want to be known.? Psychics et al, want to prove how good they are and to be taken serious. Yet "she", he, conceals her identity.

"team" has now entered his language.

Whom is "our team"

"our team" enters his language when the "psychic" is introduced, although not by name.

Again note the passivity.

Note: "to date"

This is a very important qualifier. If he does have a "very good psychic" that has never been wrong" Using the qualifier "to date" weakens his statement enormously. Why add "to date". Does he believe "she" maybe wrong this time?

What cases has she worked on, if at all.?
Who are "we, our and "team"
What are the "first big updates"?
What our their "findings"?

Juliet said...

To add to my previous post:
Why does reverse speech guy modify his language and conclusion if speech reversal is never wrong? Because, apparently, sometimes the interpretation of it can be wrong, so presumably he's just working on that, attempting to backtrack a little.... interesting this comes after his trip and encounter with police and parents. He is worried his guess work/projections onto the parents might be wrong, and so is trying to make his claims somehow less defamatory and accusatory, just in case the parents have not harmed or intentionally harmed their son, whilst also continuing to hope he is right. I don't know why he imagines softening his language somehow lessens his findings, when in the reversals he has the mother saying 'hurry hit him' and 'let's hurt him' and the father saying 'we don't miss him' and 'we now forget him'. . It's appalling - those are his words only, which he has perversely put into their mouths. Regardless of the outcome of this case, and whether the parents are responsible for DeOrr's disappearance, or not, he's still presenting himself as a self-deluded shyster exploiting a terrible situation and causing additional pain, stress and upset to all little DeOrr's family. He's playing into people's emotions, but he slipped when he referred to DeOrr as a 'damned baby' - charmed. I'm sure he does care very much, just not so much, really. about the baby.

Juliet said...

Anon at 9.48 - I wondered about them mentioning the insect repellant can, and if it wasn't insect repellant, and if LE also knew it wasn't insect repellant, but just informed them that was what they had found to test their reaction. Probably this does not make sense, but I know what I mean. :-/ Jessica said search and rescue spotted something orange, and thought it might have been part of a shoe, but probably search and rescue wouldn't have thought it was part of one of DeOrr's shoes, not unless they expected his over-sized cowboy boots to also be bright orange. So, they were 'dead on'? How could they be dead on in thinking it was part of a shoe when it turned out to be insect repellant? Maybe DeOrr just meant they were 'dead on' in spotting small objects. It would be interesting to know if that really was a can of insect repellant. I think there's something a bit odd about them needing to mention it but probably I am suffering from an over active imagination.

Anonymous said...

Actually, I was thinking that Dad's use of the word "dead" was slippage.

Trigger said...

"This is our first big update...etc"

DeOrr Sr. is controlling the information again and expects to update again...and again.

He has a team of independent investigators including a "very strong psychic."

The "psychic" has never been wrong in missing persons cases.

No problems here. DeOrr Sr. has all his ducks in order. He acts like he is going to be hailed a hero soon.

He loves the media attention.

Juliet said...

More wonderings on the insect repellant.

From the parents' TV interview:
Deorr Sr - I remember them telling me, they asked search and rescue to look over, because there was an orange insect repellant can, they think by the bank, and they were dead-on, that's what it was, how accurate these guys are
Jessica - They thought it was, it might have been, a part of a shoe, or something, but they said, go check that out

Next DeOrr goes on to say the helicopter is used for a lot worse situations than this (I think he meant tougher terrain) but not a trace of his son has been found - the hearsay has gotten out of hand, and it's not entirely sure or true that the search has been suspended.


It's difficult to know if DeOrr Sr orders his thoughts, or if it all comes out as disjointedly and in no particular order, as it seems to do. I don't know if the insect repellant is associated in his mind with what he says next.

I think it's most likely DeOrr got ahead of events, and Jessica only spoke there to correct him and to put it in the right order, as couples do. They were told that Search and Rescue thought it might have been part of a shoe, but it turned out to be a can of insect repellant. DeOrr is trying too much, because search and rescue were not 'dead-on' and 'accurate'. They checked it out because they thought it was part of a shoe. DeOrr is impressed because they were 'dead-on' and 'accurate' when they found insect repellant rather than part of a shoe. Well, I think to give him the benefit of having a jumbled up brain in trying to convey how accurate search and rescue were in being able to find and retrieve very small items, and how, for all their ability and technology, they still hadn't been able to find a trace of his son.
There's always the possibility that he is utterly impressed at how well baby DeOrr has been hidden, because all those experts and professionals, with all their knowledge and technology, and even the world-class rescue helicopter, have failed to find him.


It seems likely that reverse speech guy has picked up on the existence of the insect-repellant can, decided it was mace, and worked that into his reversals. He stealthily uncovers the very easy to find FB profile pic of grandpa Kunz, and then decides as he has on his belt something which could be either dog mace or a phone, that he was at the scene and is therefore also involved in the murder of his grandson. He has decided that Grandpa Kunz's description of how an abductor could have taken DeOrr is actually a confession - that is all a bit odd, but as that whole clip sounds somewhat rehearsed, I think Grandpa Kunz was repeating what he had been told might have happened, by someone else. (I don't know offhand where the audio is, but it's on one of the news sites, so googling 'Grandfather DeOrr Kunz' should bring it up somewhere amongst the early news reports.)

Juliet said...

Ps anon - I know you meant 'dead-on' might be slippage, but that's already been talked about in earlier comments on the other DeOrr threads, and I am more interested in the insect repellant can, and orange shoes vs cowboy boots

Anonymous said...

SOOOo? What's to discuss? The orange obstacle has already been determined to be an insect repellant can. What more is there to say? Hellllloooo... ? IT'S AN INSECT REPELLANT CAN.

There have been many searchers in the area as well as the church volunteer group who were serving the searchers. Surely some of them brought repellant with them to protect themselves from insect bites. Comprende'? End of story?

Anonymous said...

""This is our first big update...etc"

DeOrr Sr. is controlling the information again and expects to update again...and again.

He has a team of independent investigators including a "very strong psychic." [...]

Huh?? Because the update is from Kellen Marson, the backwards speech psycho...

Juliet said...

There's no need to be all sensitive and sarcastic, as you say - it's just an insect repellant can, after all. :) I doubt the church volunteers or searchers on the ground were in the area when the insect repellant was found, though - they might have got a bit whooshed by the helicopter.

Juliet said...

Anon - not meaning to be pernickety or obsessive here, but did you say it was just an insect repellant can, or also that it was an obstacle? :)

Venus Doom said...

Peter, I'm wondering if you'd consider doing an analysis on the case of Justin Hillerby, the "bad boyfriend" convicted of homicide by child abuse after Blaise Spoerl, the young son of his girlfriend, Jennifer Spoerl, died in September 2008. I'm curious what the analysis would reveal about the adults' relationship and how much Jennifer knew. Thanks!

trustmeigetit said...

"She has assisted in a number of missing person cases and to date has never been wrong"

I don't see that she has ever found a missing person. Alive or dead. Just that she has never been wrong.

Beyond vague and what proof is there that she is not wrong?

And it's not about being right or wrong in a missing person case since..unless they are found..we may never know if the person was wrong. I mean they can say "they are in water" but if they are never found, we really don't know if that was right...or wrong...

They are playing the odds with right or wrong.

But still at the end of the day if they were psychic they could tell us where the person or body was. And that "finding" of the missing person was missing from that statement so it means nothing other than they have not yet been able to prove them wrong. Because no one has been found.

Anonymous said...

Pernickey or persnickety?

You don't know if the church volunteers or searchers had been in the area or if they were in the area at the time, nor do I. Who cares anyhow. The orange object (OR OBSTACLE) that was seen lying upon the ground, upon inspection, turned out to be AN INSECT REPELLANT CAN! It was NOT a childs boot. Sheeeesh... grow a brain. Or get a life, whichever comes first.

If somebody else wants to explore the aforementioned use of the word "DEAD", as in "dead on", what's it to you? How does it concern YOU if this poster feels the need to discuss its' use? YOu don't have the right to dismiss this person as if their question means nothing just so you can yammer on and on about a non-existing orange boot that happened to be AN INSECT REPELLANT CAN.... Dang.

Anonymous said...

TrustMeIGetIt: The psychic has never been right either. Has she/he ever produced a body?

Don't think so.

Sus said...

Maybe it's because I'm hot and tired. Maybe it's because I have a migraine coming on again. Or maybe it's because I speak my mind and I'm just using the above two as excuses. Yeah, that's it. Here goes....

You are dragging the backwards guy here. You are making him relevant and he is not. There is no rhyme or reason behind what he is throwing out. Climb out of the rabbit hole.

Anonymous said...

I'm the one who wanted to explore the use of the word DEAD. I also note that Dad says BANK in the same sentence. This maybe be leakage in reference to money, debts, etc. Remember, Jessica just had a suit entered against her on July 6 for an unpaid debt. Forward speech moves us forward!

Juliet said...

Amon at 4.30 - yes, perhaps I did sound a bit dismissive there. Regrettable, I concur. Sorry about that Anon of the 'dead on' slippage post, but it has already been mentioned, and it's always worth checking out other threads on the subject in hand.

Anon - You don't need to read my posts if they get on your nerves. Obviously I understand it was not a boot, and also that it was said to be an insect repellant can. Would you have any link to corroborate the fact that LE has confirmed it was an insect repellant can? I will then be very satisfied to accept that that is what LE have said it was. Thanks.

Juliet said...

Sus - I stopped thinking about him hours ago, though it seemed relevant at the time as the article does address reverse speech. Sadly, I'm in the insect repellant can rabbit-hole now, but I hope to climb out of it quite soon. :-/

Anonymous said...

Alas, there are too many threads on Deorr, including here on Peter's website. Don't have time to read all of them!

Anonymous said...

I think the topic is "DeOrre, Backwards Speech, and Psychics" ...

Juliet said...

I doubt you can provide a link, Anon - I think the only information there is came from the parents In the interview - I don't doubt that is what they were told it was. I am saying that's not necessarily what it was, that's all - LEs ways are not necessarily our ways. I am interested as to why the father went on about it, and if it might hold any more significance than at first appears. As you say, who cares about a can of insect repellant - well, DeOrr found it quite worthy of his attention. Still, leaving the rabbit-hole now.

trustmeigetit said...

I finally checked out backwards speech. And really it just makes me laugh.

I mean if you just play it backwards it's sounds like nothing. I'm not sure how they are making it "hidden messages" but whatever.

I do agree with on thing...if I was dealing with my missing son..I wouldn't care about anyone's views, theories etc..I would not care about anything but finding my kid. I just would not care.

Anonymous said...

I think Dad is in awe that LE could see such a small object from way up there in the helicopter. (Maybe because it was orange?) Perhaps the implication is that LE would then certainly have been able to spot Deorr if he were still at the campground. They didn't, so ergo he MUST have been kidnapped.

Juliet said...

Anon at 5.40 - yes, that's probably it. I'm not in the rabbit hole anymore. :) I'm also not a robot.

Juliet said...

Trustmeigetit - Yes, Peter doesn't need to concern himself about speech reversal being associated with statement analysis in anyone's mind - there are no comparisons, only contrasts.

Anonymous said...

Juliet, your post @ 5:29; if you think I am going to go searching around looking for a link for you, you've got another think coming. I don't know who you think you're making a demand of, but let me set you straight: It ain't gonna happen, not now, not ever. If you want a link, find it yourself. OR not. Your problem.

Re the freakish backwards speech guy; Sus @ 4:42 says it well. I think several of us have already voiced our disinterest AND disdain for him and the c'rap he peddles, yet you just will not leave it alone. PLEASE, leave it alone.

BTW, you state that Peter doesn't need to concern himself about speech reversal being associated with statement analysis and yada yada yada? I think Peter has sense enough to decide for himself what he wants to concern himself with and does an excellent job of it. Wasn't it just a few days ago that I said "pretty soon you'll be telling Peter what he can do, etc & etc....?" Yep. And sure enough, there you go!

lynda said...

Anon @, that was really uncalled for. Grow a brain? Get a life? Talk about dismissive and just plain nasty. Why are you even on a discussion thread if people's posts annoy you to the point where you imply they have no life and no brain? If you're going to insult someone at least have the guts to make up some name instead of Anon. Jeesh yourself!

Anonymous said...

Well duh Lynda! The "grow a brain" is taken from Patsy Ramsey's ransom demand letter. It is a play on words. The "get a life" was taken from baby killer Casey Anthony while sitting in jail; another play on words. Oh well. You missed it. Nonetheless, I probably shouldn't have used those phrases, even if they did seem to cover the subject well at the time.

However, it's my right if I want to get annoyed as hell at someone who just drones on and on and on and on, post after post; who is not only ignoring comments made by others who want to move on from the subject she beats to death over and over like she thinks she's a Philadelphia lawyer in cross-examination, but who ALSO is being critical of others she dismisses; SHE thinks in a clever suttle way. Do tell! Not as cleverly as she thinks.

Nonetheless, I have never spoken in any way other than kindly to you; in fact, have admired your posts. So there.

Juliet said...

Trustmeigetit - I don't know how I would respond to reverse speech guy's antics if I were in the parents' situation, i can only know how I think I would respond. Realistically, they cannot search day and night, and have not been able to from the beginning - it's physically and practically unsustainable, and no-one could reasonably expect them to be able to do that. They are young people and social media is no doubt as much a part of their lives as eating and sleeping. They turn there for support from friends, family and the public but also find a nut job proclaiming them murderers, stating that it was a cold blooded murder, harassing them, and then arriving at the campsite at a time he knows they will be there. I don't think I would be willing to let all that pass. I think his accusations and antics would merely add to all the stress, without detracting or distracting from it. I would care because these are the worst type of accusations, and it would not have to mean that I also cared less about the missing child. I would care because there is a nut job now standing in front of me, trying to be friendly, telling me all about his broken ankle, and offering to help me search for the child he has told the world I have murdered. He's even live blogging the encounter on fb, though I don't immediately realise this. Then it clicks, and I know who he is, and he, crazy guy, is actually putting on a kindly act of offering to help me find the baby he alleges I have murdered. Wouldn't that bother you and creep you out just a little? It would me.

It may not bother you what anyone was saying or doing, but I think it would bother me - we are not all the same. The mind cannot dwell constantly upon one person or concern, without letting other things in, can it? Like constant searching, it's not sustainable.

I don't know if the parents know what has happened to their son, or not, but either way, if I was them, I wouldn't want this guy, who is saying these things, in my face, or in my mind. I don't think I would be willing or able to ignore that he was saying those things. Many people have said much the same as you on social media, but without living through it, how, really, can anyone say, or know, how they would respond?

Juliet said...

Thanks Lynda, bu please don't risk put yourself in the firing line on my account, I can take it . :)

Don't feed the trolls, and stuff.

Juliet said...

Jessica at 4.16 - I am wondering if you made the request for the recordings of him and DeOrr, and if so, if reverse speech guy has responded, deleted or ignored you?

Anonymous said...

Jessica Blans
Today at 7:38pm
Hi! I read the Statement Analysis blog by Peter Hyatt. He expressed an interest in being able to transcribe and interpret your encounter with DeOrr over the weekend. He, much like you, is volunteering time to analyze the parent's exact words. Evidently it is much better to do this with a recording rather than just reading the words. I don't know if you are interested in sharing the recording, but I said I would ask you to see if this is a possibility. Thanks.

Backward Speech I won't share it because the police have it, I'm sorry.
5 minutes ago

Jessica Blans said...

Juliet, I forgot to ask. I just did though, so I'll let you know when or if he responds.


Jessica Blans said...

Oh. He responded while I was typing out my comment. I assume the post at 10:47PM is from Kellen Marson, backward speech guy, because he (or someone else who administers that page) pasted in my Facebook message and responded to it at the bottom.


Anonymous said...

Jessica - Its' posted here on the left side:

lynda said...

Jess...That's convenient for him

So, I don't know the lingo but the sentence breaks up like this to me from what I have gleaned so far..

"I won't share it" Takes ownership, pronoun has changed. He went from his rant letter of "WE and "Our" to now "I" wont share it. Share the tape of Deorr Sr. talking to him?

"BECAUSE" This is important, correct? Does this weaken the statement?

"The police have it, I'm sorry." Apologies aren't good are they? Is he sorry the police have it? Is he sorry it's all his and he can't share it? Is he lying about even having it"?

Regardless, whether the police have it or not, BSG would NEVER share anything because he wants the glory and attention IMO

lynda said...

Okay, I out of the rabbit hole The guy is whacked!

I SO wish we had more speech of Dad and Mom. I really can't help but feel it is because they know about this blog and they will not say anything more unless they absolutely have to because of Peter's analysis.

~mj said...

I too wish there was more material from the parents and strongly feel any parent of a missing child, believed to be abducted, would/should speak out as often as they can get anyone to listen.

Juliet said...

Jessica - thanks. At least he responded and in a fairly civil manner. He could still share it with Peter though, if he wanted to. It's not as though he says he can't, or has been instructed not to, just that he won't. :) He's obviously aware of this blog -he responded as one who has been waiting and is ready with his response to the question. I wonder if he will leave your post up so that all his followers who have not heard of Statement Analysis can check it out for an alternative view on speech reversal.

Lynda - I think you have it there on the 'we' and I think the 'because' is also an excuse. And he might be sorry, if the police do have it, but only because he's not likely to present too well on it. :) I hadn't even considered that the recording might not exist. I would expect him to soon be busily publishing all the further incriminating 'evidence' he would no doubt have spent all night working into DeOrr's words by now, though perhaps he can't make anything nasty enough for his satisfaction from it yet. I think it does exist and if he does not want to share it, it's because he doesn't want to present himself in an even worse light, which he might have to do, in order to share it. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander, some of his critics could have a bit of fun giving his own words the reverse speech treatment.


I'm going to stop describing him as a nut job now because while I have been finding it a satisfying way of describing him it also excuses and explains him away too easily. Besides, it's just not good; people with mental health issues, most of whom don't go round behaving like him, don't need the second-hand insult of thinking they might be being lumped together with him in even one person's mind. So I'll just settle for him being a narcissistic who behaves very irresponsibly, and who, sadly, has no problems with justifying it to himself, or to others.

That's probably enough of this guy for me, too, now.

John Mc Gowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Mc Gowan said...

"I won't share it because the police have it, I'm sorry".


Note the need to explain why he will not share it. He was not asked why he will not share.

If I asked you, "Why wont you share it?" It is natural for you to use the word, "Because" in you reply. It is an appropriate response to the question.

If it is said in an open statement, it is a different scenario all together.
When someone tells us the reason why, without being asked, we must consider why the person feels the need to justify what they have done. It maybe that they are anticipating being asked later. Why? Given that it is said in an open statement (not as a result of a question) makes it very sensitive to them. Again, why?

I'm sorry"

Some people say this in a polite way. "I'm sorry you didn't get the job, i'm sorry you lost your cat" etc. Or, when they do not hear what is being said. "I'm sorry, what was that?

It can also be leakage from the guilty, and should not be passed by. We always flag the word "sorry" in a statement and seek to learn it's context.

Juliet said...

Peter, I wonder if you might have any thoughts on this:

I followed a lot of the trial on-line. I was already convinced of Casey's guilt though, due to her behaviour and all the circumstantial evidence, along with the siting of Caylee's body. I thought it was going to be a pretty much open and closed case, and so, like many, found myself both dismayed and astonished by the verdict. I missed the testimony about George Anthony's alleged sexual abuse of Casey. I just filled in the blank with my own bias, and decided it was another of Casey's fabrications, and a most heinous one, to win sympathy from the jury and public. I thought there was nothing she wouldn't say or do to try to cast blame elsewhere. I have often wondered what her motive might have been, and nothing quite satisfies. I settled on it being spite towards her parents, and jealousy of their love for Caylee, and determination that Cindy would not be able to follow through her threat of gaining custody. I thought she was a pathological liar and a sociopath, with little care or feeling towards anyone, no respect for anyone, not even any self-respect - all she seemed to be was an appetite being filled at the cost of anyone who was close to her. All this could be made to fit, indeed might very well be the case, and still fit. Since reading the article posted in the link, however, I have lost confidence in much of what I had previously believed about Casey. Because she has lied so badly and so much, I find it very tempting to write off her every utterance as an untruth, but perhaps that is to turn her into even more of a caricature than she already has become in the popular imagination. I would be interested to know your thoughts on the article, and if you have seen and analysed, or could have access to and analyse, the interviews cited there. Perhaps you already have, and I have missed it, as there is so much on your blog - apologies if so.

lynda said...

Thank you John! I almost wrote that 'the police have it" was unnecessary because I couldn't think of the correct interpretation which would be that the question was not asked why he couldn't share. Fascinating. I think that he feels the need to explain because the alternative would be to admit that he's just a narcissist and like a child with their toys, he just doesn't want to share at all.

Anonymous said...


You know what stood out the most to me in that Casey Anthony article?

Her quote of.....

"How do you handle the unspeakable? You put it in a little box, hiding it deep, pretending all is well. Doing that since age 8, since elementary school, I became exceedingly perfect."

She sure did. Only instead of her "hiding it deep" in her mind, she hid it deep in the woods. And "it" wasn't an it. It was her own daughter.

She definitely pretended that nothing was wrong.

I do not believe her father in any way shape or form sexually abused Casey.
I think she knew throwing that out there would be so horrible, no one would ever think to question such an awful story. They would believe her no matter what because now, she is the victim.

I don't buy it.

That is just my two cents though.

Anonymous said...

I for one DO believe that Casey Anthony was raped repeatedly by George Anthony as a child, and possibly starting even earlier than eight years old. Further, I believe that Cindy Anthony knew about Georges' rapes of their little girl and allowed it. Also, there is some question as to whether George had already started molesting little Caylee.

Every professional psychotherapist, psychologist and psychiatrist I have discussed this with (several) and all those I have researched also believe Casey was raped by George.

IMO, George & Cindy Anthony are as guilty of little Caylees' death as Casey Anthony is, maybe even more so. They made Casey into what she became. They also helped to cover up this childs' death and disposal. The LOVED Caylee? They loved themselves and hiding their own guilt was their one and only goal; not protecting Casey.

trustmeigetit said...

I think she just didn't like being a mom and the responsibility.

And had they done their homework and obtained the foxfire browser searches (the one Casey preferred) and presented the search to the jury "full proof suffocation" I am sure that would have sealed her fate for a guilty verdict.

Sad part was even Jose Baez knew about these searches and admitted afterwards he was shocked that it was never brought up during the trial as he had no idea how he would ever defend that.

Talk about luck. I don't think there is anyway to get around that yet probably the most clear cut evidence for pre meditation..and it's just missed by the prosecutors?

~mj said...

Agreed. Casey is guilty, hands down - AND - something went horribly wrong with this human for her to behave so inhuman. It does not excuse her actions but it does explain them.

Unknown said...

Hey Sus,

If you see this, let me know how you liked the soap! I made a recipe using borax, a bar soap with 'fels' in the name for my sister when she was pregnant. She has super sensitive skin, and even the 'clear' detergents were bothering her. Anyway, it looked great at first, but then it separated into a weird sludge.

I'd like to try again with a better recipe!

Anonymous said...

John Mc Gowan said...

Jessica Mitchell's 911 Call Backward Speech Analysis

If you follow the link below it provides the breakdown.

Analysis Conclusion

At some point leading to the disappearance of DeOrr Jr. A fight had broken out. This could have been a physical altercation or a verbal altercation. The purpose of the fight is unknown at this time, but it is very likely Jessica changed her mind at the last minute and tried to stop the situation. This would confirm why she felt guilty and blamed herself for the situation.

I believe that Jessica was being deceptive when she told news reporters she called 911 from the top of the mountain, when she most likely called from a place below the mountain. The reversals reference to her talking about high ground which could only happen if she was on low ground. Further, Any foul play that occurred, was most likely done in a location on the mountain, again based on the reversals.

It is also possible that when Jessica called 911 the situation may not have happened yet, or was going on at the same time she had called 911. This would explain why her reversals seemed to be in real time as if something was happening when she called. It would also explain why people feel they heard DeOrr’s voice on the 911 call.

There has also been a lot of talk as to whether the child was ever at the mountain. The reversal, “you will miss the fight” occurs when the mother is talking about timber creek. This concludes the child was in fact at the campground. Regardless of what happened, I can confidently say that Jessica Mitchell knows exactly what happened to DeOrr Jr. and may be protecting someone or herself. She may have also been on board with the situation, but as a mother, backed out at the last minute at the thought of hurting her child.

John Mc Gowan said...

My apologies for not providing the break down. For some reason i can't copy and paste it.

Juliet said...

Thanks for the comments on this - It's Casey's motive, though, which I find difficult to pinpoint. If she was very damaged as per the article, still loved her dad, but hated what he did, was not able to take responsibility for her own life as an adult, slept with Caylee in a locked room in an attempt to protect her from George, feared her parental rights were going to be removed, suspected that George had already molested Caylee, felt powerless to protect her because she was incapable of raising her alone or living an independent adult life - is it possible she killed Caylee as the only sure means to keep her from George, and to punish them all, including herself, not only for the abuse but also for hiding it? I don't believe George killed her; he wouldn't have left the body so long as to let the car be ruined by the odour, or have risked Cindy's wrath. I also doubt he would have disposed of the body so close to home.

I do believe Cindy and George loved Caylee, in their own dysfunctional way, but also that self-preservation kicked in, as they knew she could not be brought back. Maybe though, Casey did not really want preservation of the family and a return to life as it was pre Caylee, maybe she didn't really want anyone to believe anything she said. If Casey is as damaged as the article suggests, and as it does appear she did not live much in the real world (imaginary job, not acknowledging her pregnancy; not reporting Caylee missing when the length of time would obviously raise great suspicion, more so than if she had disposed of the body and reported her as missing straight away; inventing a preposterous story which nobody would believe and which was so easily disproved) then it does seem possible that there is more behind it than simply that she is a heartless sociopath and a liar who murdered her daughter in order to party, free herself of any responsibility, spite her parents, whatever - well, for one thing, she's not very good at lying, and sociopaths usually are. Casey's lies say to the person listening that they are lies - everyone knew from the outset that she was lying, she didn't even try to make a convincing story, she winged it, making it up as she went along. That is so very strange. She must have been used to having her parents accept and pretend to believe her - I doubt they believed she had a job, especially as she needed to raid her grandfather and mother's accounts, and those are major matters to have just played along with, but the fact she got away with it at home doesn't make me think she believed she could similarly fool everyone else. Perhaps her fantasy world was indulged because her parents had a lot to hide, and perhaps Casey, as a result of familial collusion, in their all pretending there was no sexual abuse, grew up to become what would be termed here, a vulnerable adult, in need of support to function in her adult life and to raise her own child. Maybe, and if that were the case, she hated her life, the prospect of Caylee having the same sort of life, and so caused it all to fall apart, perhaps even without much conscious knowledge of why she was doing it - and then just acted like a detached observer, as her parents struggled to put it all back together again, trying to carry on covering up the unspeakable, all the while knowing and hoping that could never happen. These are just some thoughts, I'm not saying that's how it all is, so much as wondering if it could be.

Juliet said...


I have little doubt that Casey killed Caylee and that her parents tried to cover it up. It's why Casey is as she is, why she did what she did and why she either chose or felt compelled to tell such obvious and self-damning lies, which I find interesting .It would be fascinating to be able to read the interviews with the psychiatrist, and an analysis of them, to see if they throw more light, or a different light, on the person who Casey is. I'd like to know if she is capable of telling the truth or if she only lives in her own made up world, and especially if was she telling the truth about George. It's unfortunate she told so many lies -I found it made it easier and more convenient, to disbelieve everything.

Juliet said...

John - those reversals were on the site previous to today, so it seems he is still playing around with what was already there. He was already more than a bit iffy, Now he's extra iffy - no good reason to edit and change existing posts on a website without making clear what has been changed, added or removed.

Juliet said...

John, sorry about this, but I thought you might like it. :-D

Anonymous said...

New post from Dad:

DeOrr Kunz Never once ran anyone out of town we appreciate any help searching the only time we requested no one to was when the scent dogs were getting confused I never ran kellan out either I had a civil conversation with him till the sheriff told me to get away kellan has been negitive from the start I don't care what people think of me I just wish he would have tried to speak with me I am the father but he wanted to be one sided I thanked him for makeing the trip and had questions is all but no we welcome anyone's help an able body is more help to us but everything has been twisted by kellan so much only thing we have been ask is that if its hundreds to search again we need to correspond with Sheffif dept so one gets lost or help

Anonymous said...

Other posts from Dad on same site:

In response to a Q about whether FBI is involved:
"DeOrr Kunz They are helping my son we have pi and every asset we can think of either FBI"
pi = Private Investigator????
either = even???

"DeOrr Kunz Thank everyone for that that's all that matters is finding my boy everything else is just wasting time"
"my" boy

Anonymous said...

Dad: "I am the father" THE Father?

Anonymous said...

After rereading all of Dad's statements over the past few weeks, I am increasingly troubled by his repeated phrases such as: The Father, His Father, My Boy, My Son, As A Father, etc. This makes me wonder if something has happened to cause him to suspect that he is not the child's biological father. I hope that Peter will opine on this.

Also, the backward speech guy is trying to round up a cast of thousands to go search.

Anonymous said...

Dad has also used the word TWISTED a number of times. I can't help but envision a neck wringing.

Anonymous said...

Are they checking the mines? They need to check for abandoned mine shafts. Some where close to a dirt road that connects back to the camp, within 10 miles, or 20 minutes.

John Mc Gowan said...

Juliet said...

John, sorry about this, but I thought you might like it. :-D

Guilty Mlud :)

Sus said...

Ok, I think I have the order correct. Deorr sr first answered the question about FBI involvement. He did not answer the question directly. He actually gave a reason as to why the FBI is involved. It's like having an unstated "because." It is sensitive to him that the FBI is involved. It could be that he is aware that people assume it is because of criminal activity. He does go on to state they are "helping my son." That's a rather strange thing to say when his son has been missing a month. Does he mean "helping find my son"?

Pi info is interesting. What is the pi investigating? He/she sure is laying low.

"Every asset we can think of" concerns me. When his wo year old is still missing, I don't expect to hear him say this. Raise money, bring in your own tracking team, go beyond the 2 mile radius, go on national tv. I can think of more "assets." Why can't Deorr sr?

"Either FBI." Huh? There's a name for this. It's a like dyslexia only with speech.I can't remember the name. He did it in the interview, also.

Sus said...

Next he answered to a poster telling him he runs people off when they try to look for his son. The poster is a regular on backward guy's site. He certainly didn't deny it...dropped pronoun, never instead of good solid past tense, and stated in the negative.

As anon pointed out, he calls himself "the father."

I also don't like how he says Kellan has been "negative from the start." The start of what? This is so unexpected to me. I certainly wouldn't call my son missing "the start" of anything. And "negative" is pretty mild. No, he called you a murderer of your son.

It's obvious from this comment that it is important to Deorr sr how he is seen by people, even to a narcissist like backward guy.

Anonymous said...

For anyone who wants to read a fair psychiatric analysis of the psychologically destroyed person Casey Anthony is, and how she became the pathological and sociopathic monster she became; research and read the reports of Dr. Keith Ablow if they can still be found.

There are also other psychiatric analysis reports on Casey, as well as well-known writers who explored her behavior and gave their honest and learned opinions that she had been raped as a child by her father. You will be left with little doubt that George Anthony did indeed molest and rape Casey Anthony even up to the conception of little Caylee, at one point acting as if he believed the child was his. I don't think George realized that Caylee wasn't his until after the DNA tests were performed. Even her brother realized what was going on and decided he wanted a piece of the action earlier on but failed in his attempts with Casey. Yes, I do believe this is true. The pathological liar isn't lying about everything; unfortunately, you just can't tell the difference but an expert can.

While court ordered psychiatric evaluations and prison psychiatrists and analysts reports are confidential and sealed, there are others that aren't. I wouldn't be so quick to throw it out that George did in fact continuously rape Casey throughout her childhood just because lawyer Baez said it in his opening statement or because pathological liar Casey said it. Even Peter speculated the truth of this likely possibility in earlier articles. Just because Casey had never told anyone doesn't mean it didn't happen. I believe the trained reports of the professionals, that it did happen. Caseys parents destroyed her a long time ago.

Anonymous said...

I am starting to think that DeOrr Sr needs to take a retraining order against this sicko guy who is like a feisty little barking, biting puppy dog nipping at his heels day and night that he can't shake lose. I wouldn't put up with this backwards speech fool for five more minutes, twisting around everything I say.

DeOrr Sr is obviously not an educated or a smart man, but he DOES have the right to look for his son in peace without constant harassment, whether he refers to himself as The Father, MY son or however else he choses to refer to his son. This IS, after all, HIS son.

Heck, I'm starting to have a little compassion for DeOrr, Sr., seeing as how he is having to fight the forces of evil and darkness just to search for his own son. I'd have this backward speech b'stard pounding salt in no time flat.

Juliet said...

Anon at 6.51 - thank you. Indeed, Dr Keith Ablow wrote the article I linked to, which caused me to rethink my opinion on Casey. I hoped Peter might be willing to throw his own light on Casey's interviews with the psychiatrist, if they are available. It's the veracity of her words through the lens of statement analysis which would could aid in my/others being able to form a rounder, more balanced view. Dr Ablow says Casey did not qualify for any psychiatric disorder, she didn't even come close. He also writes:

'So let me get this over with, then move on: I told you so. I told you that the real story of Casey Anthony is that of a girl who buries her inner self so deeply (including unspeakably, unthinkably intense feelings of pain and humiliation and rage) that she is, for all intents and purposes, absent from her own existence. Gone. A ghost. A stranger to us, and even to herself. I called her condition “Identity Suppression Syndrome”—a term I coined. And I stand by that assessment, 100 percent.

But there is much more to say. Because the material in Danziger and Weitz’s depositions rings so true for a victim of horrific sexual abuse that it is stunning. It gave me the shivers. I won’t state here whether George Anthony is a pedophile and child rapist, but I challenge any other mental health professional with any experience treating victims of trauma to review the depositions Danziger and Weitz rendered and come away asserting that Casey Anthony’s words ring untrue or seem fabricated.

Danziger stated that the scenes of sexual abuse Casey Anthony related to him as occurring at the hands of her father George Anthony were “disgusting, demeaning, intercourse, and everything.” Casey Anthony told him the abuse started when she was 8 and tapered off when she turned 11. After that, it was an occasional rape, with the last one occurring when she was 18. “I tried to fight back when I older,” Casey Anthony told him. “I’m not a big person.”

“I’m not a big person.” She sounds almost apologetic. She sounds powerless. And that’s the way victims of sexual abuse sound.
But there’s more. “My first real sex was at age 16,” she said. Asked by Jeffrey Ashton what she meant by that, Danziger stated, “Well, as opposed to anything that was intrafamilial.” Meaning, with her father.

I have listened to victims of sexual abuse by family members for over 15 years. And that is the language of a victim. Pure, and simple, and heartbreaking. Word-for- word. “My first real sex.” Where on earth would Casey Anthony have learned to flawlessly mimic the lexicon of a victim of child rape?'

Juliet said...


Statement Analysis Blog said...

"Identity suppression syndrome" is his emphasis as he "coined" it.

It is a dissociative disorder and commonly known.

Was Casey a victim of sexual abuse?

I have done enough analysis on her to know the answer. It is in the archives and initially was met with a host of comments fearing that this excused her. It did not excuse anything.

Did she murder her daughter? Yes.

Did she know what she was doing?

Every inch of the way, before, during and after.


Statement Analysis Blog said...

Blogger John mcgowan said...
He's at it again! backward guy. Geez, what a narcissist!

I was wondering how long it would take until this was noted.

John: it did not take you long!

Anonymous said...

Actually Julie, if one had thought to do so, and had really paid close attention to the jail visits that were video taped, they might have realized that Casey was more in cahoots with helping Cindy and George cover up their actions than she was in covering up her own actions. Once you start to see it, it becomes clearer that Casey was cleverly protecting THEM more than she was protecting herself, especially George.

I hope someday that she will be able to gather up the strength to sue George (and Cindy) for everything he did to her and had already started to do to little Caylee, and Cindy too for her protection of George while allowing him to sexually abuse Casey. George Anthony belongs in prison for the rest of his rotten life. Cindy is no better. These two people, either one or both, were just as capable of killing and disposing of little Caylee as Casey was, and maybe more so.

I believe Jeff Ashton knew the truth but was so hell bent on winning a guilty verdict against Casey with him being the victor, that he let the matter of Casey being raped by her father drop with a loud thud, thus making a fool out of Baezs' opening statement, thereby also avoiding her accusation that George had drowned Caylee that morning as if it never happened when it well could have; just as Ashton and bouncing ball Judge Perry allowed all of the Anthonys perjuries to go unpunished. However, Casey is so void and emotionally inept of any normal feelings that she may never recover enough feelings to take any action against them, or even to attempt to defend herself again; I'd say doubtful that she will.

Unknown said...

Before running too far with this Casey Anthony article, and Ablows declaration that 'he was right' based on the psychologist's reports....please remember that these two psychologists were defense counsel!

While they were eventually paid by the state due to Casey Anthony's indigent status, but they were counsel/experts for the defense. They would not have existed in their position as defense council if they had an opposite opinion from the defense as to her pathology, and her 'story'.

Unknown said...

*paid by the State of Florida for their services...not 'the state' as in the Prosecutors office.

As you see in the article, Jeff Ashton was deposing them. They were defense witnesses.

Unknown said...

Dr. Keith Ablows states in his book that he has never spoken to Casey Anthony. His opinions are based on observations, and a few conversations he had with peripheral and extended family members. (Think along the lines of Cindy's estranged brother, and his ex/wife.)

While I agree with his opinion that Casey's eventual murder of Caylee was a culmination of multiple generations of denial, enabling, and deception, I don't come to that conclusion based on his second/third/fourth hand information, and analysis.

Their family's profound dysfunction was on display for the world to see for months!

Casey may have been molested by George, but I'm not about to take her word for it, or her defense attorney's, or her defense expert's, or Ablow's, who never even spoke to her.

(Just sayin!)

In my opinion, her claims appear contrived, and convenient, but that doesn't make them impossible.

Juliet said...

Thanks, Peter - okay, I'll just have to settle for what's in the archives, then - that should only take a couple of months. :)

Anon at 9.01 - yes, I'll revisit the jail visit videos, thanks. I can't agree or disagree with anything you say there. I no longer know what to think about any of it, excepting that I do still believe Casey killed Caylee. I share Peter's view that whatever may have occurred in her earlier life does not excuse her. I'd like to think it might help explain her though, but probably not, as there would be many more murdered infants if victims of childhood sexual abuse could generally be expected to go on to kill their own children. it's hard luck for all those victims of abuse who raise their children without perpetuating the abuse, yet feel stigmatised through association or identification in the minds of others, or even if just in their own minds, with people like Casey, and others who have gone on to harm or kill their children, when the majority do not.

This to anyone/no-one in particular: Casey is often described as a 'monster', in common with perpetrators of similarly heinous crimes, but this is way too easy. Isn't that the ultimate in distancing language - to deny them their humanity, and to disown them as being one of us?It's an attempt to explain them away, if not quite to excuse them - 'they're just monsters!' - but no, they are very much also one of us, no less the product of their upbringing, education and environment than anyone else - it's their very ordinariness that makes them, and their crimes, so scary. I think they shouldn't be simply written off as monsters, though admittedly, attempts to create that sort of distance between them and us can be somewhat comforting.

Juliet said...

Thanks muchly, Jen Ow - I didn't know that. I wondered about his 100% confidence. :)

Juliet said...

Sus - Maybe he's just a nice guy who really doesn't care what people think, and finding DeOrr is his only concern at this point. Whatever - DeOrr Sr's deleted responses on reverse speech guy's FB page, and these latest ones, do seem excessively generous given the situation, harassment and accusations. RSG is so carried away with it all that he's thrown the tiny bit of caution he was trying to exercise right out of the window. It was a hopeless attempt anyway, he's gone too far down his own rabbit hole to be able to back out even a bit now. The statistics are on his side, and he's revelling in the drama - probably thinks he doesn't have anything to lose.

Juliet said...

Forgot to add - If DeOrr Sr has speech dyslexia, how might that affect any analysis of his words - if he's not always using the words he intends and thinks he is using? I noticed that in the interview misuse of some words, but I didn't know there was such a thing as speech dyslexia - interesting!

John Mc Gowan said...

Juliet said...

I didn't know there was such a thing as speech dyslexia - interesting!


Me too. I would like to read Peter's input on this.

Juliet said...

Anon at 6.34

Late response, but actually, I don't know who I was engaging with at 3.12. I'm not necessarily convinced it was you, not unless you happened to be at the campsite when you wrote it:

have been vs.were
brought vs. taken

That could just be how you speak, and you might also be prone to becoming unhinged over any tiny thing, even a can of insect repellant, in which case I concede that an insect repellant can is likely to be an obstacle to civil converse, but no-one's compelled to read or respond to anyone else's posts, so the response seemed OTT to me.

Your use of the language of 'rights' is curious because we are all guests on this forum - we don't have any 'rights' in relation to it, rather we are permitted to comment, because that's the way Peter has set up his blog - he could remove posting privileges tomorrow, he could disallow all anonymous posts, named posts, allow only posts which link to profiles, and where would that leave your 'rights'? I doubt you would go as a guest into someone's house and let out a torrent of verbal abuse at others present there, or about this subject, or that, as it took your fancy, so I don't see how it becomes socially acceptable online, but there we go.

My difficulty with Anon is that all of you can be each other. You can usurp another's non-identity, deny your own posts, and also take credit for all the good Anon posts, too, regardless of how many of them you might actually have written. So while I may annoy you, and no doubt others, at times, it can work both ways.

Going offline for a while now, just to shut myself up. :)

Juliet said...

John - yes, me too, it's very interesting.

I really am going offline now, or at least this site, as I can't shut up. :-/

Anonymous said...

As far as the Casey Anthony discussion goes (I posted at 11:20 8/6)

I can see how easy it could be to take her word for it, that she was molested, raped by her own father....since we are humans, Casey Anthony is a human, and when one of us does something especially heinous we desperately need a reason WHY they have chose to do what they did.

But the truth is....sometimes humans do some really sick, twisted, evil things.
Sometimes there isn't a reason. (Ted Bundy comes to mind)

Nobody in this world comes into life easily, everyone experiences hardships and loss. Unfortunately for some- especially children- too young and defenseless, experience things that are much more insidious and horrible.

I was one of these children.
I was sexually molested by my stepfather.
My mother then chose to stay with him after I finally came forward about it when I was in my late teens. It is something I still struggle with, but I have since forgiven both of them. I have seen what holding in anger and resentment can do, and for me, I turned on the one person I could. Myself.

The point I am trying to make here is that every single human on this planet....every person has choices. You might not have a choice in what has happened to you in life when you were growing up. But you CAN choose how you are going to let it affect you.

It can either build you up, or tear you down.

In my case, in the middle of some of the most turbulent times of my early twenties, I found out I was going to be a mom. It was the best day of my life.

From that day on, my choice was to love and protect my children.

To make sure they know I love them with every fiber of my being.
To make sure that they grew up happy and healthy.
To make sure they never felt the same hurt and pain that I felt.
To make sure they always felt safe and secure with their Momma.

It all comes back to you.
But whatever path you choose, (and Casey Anthony chose a path)
It is ultimately your responsibility.
No one else's.

Just my opinion.

ima.grandma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sus said...

Using a word that makes no sense, that is just stuck in a sentence is a sign of dyslexia. I couldn't figure out why Deorr sr used "replica" when he obviously meant something like guenuine. Now i see he used "either" before FBI. It makes no sense there, though other words would. Leaving sentences incomplete is another sign. Just something to think about. I didn't think about it till I saw that "either."

ima.grandma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Juliet said...

Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing, indeed, but with it goes responsibility - to order one's words so as not to cause harm. Baldly accusing the parents of murder is going too far - that's a charge for the police to lay and the courts to decide, based on actual evidence, not some random with a malfunctioning tape recorder.


Hi, ima.grandma -it's good you are back. :). What strange goings on, the plot thickens.

Juliet said...

Lol, thank you, ima.grandma. :) -and I wouldn't call myself a girl, but I like it when other people do.

John Mc Gowan said...

Hi, ima.grandma

I hope you're doing well? x

Where to begin, re backward guys statement's above. I almost feel compelled to SA his statements, and then i think. Do i/we need to? Just highlighting in bold, his words/language, is enough.

That man is dangerous!!!

ima.grandma said...

This post should have been the first; please forgive the order. It does not apply. Shame on me, Mama taught me better manners.

The generous support I received the other day made a difference. You're a group of really cool people and I'm happy I'm in it.

peace and love. pam

Juliet, this guy is prepared to "ride this ride" He will use tragedy to attempt to ignite his career. GREEDY OPPORTUNIST!

John, no need to waste your time. I expect him to intensify manipulation of his followers. He will play himself as a victim and just as it always does...the almighty dollar will appear. I can't site specifics right off, but I get the feeling his words are part of a master plan. My interest in his rant is I think this is the beginning - to get the locals involved. Surely, the town is divided. There must be a segment of locals who think the parents are guilty of something - anything... It's human nature and basic sociology. Us against Them!

John Mc Gowan said...

This is where i have to separate subjective emotions from objective emotions. I'm finding it difficult as you can tell.

I'm going to step back for a while.

ima.grandma said...

Yes John do.


No kidding, the brain heart and soul can only process so much at any one given time. A good break provides the perspective and focus crucial to cognitive reasoning. Go charge your batteries and then come back.

Unknown said...

Thanks for the updates Imagrandma!

This reverse speech guy is a nut job! He apparently thinks he is the driving force behind every action the parents are taking right now, even their interactions with people in other states, that have nothing to do with him, and his goofy recordings!

Geez buddy, delusions of grandeur much?

Anonymous said...

"You've reached the answering machine of a Very Strong Psychic. I know who you are and what you want so, after the long tone, please hang up."

Juliet said...

Anon at 2.39 - Thanks - you are a strong person, and so you were able to make good choices for yourself and for your children. Presumably, you were able to leave the family home, were financially self-sufficient, able to raise your children away from the abusive environment, and ensure your step-father had no access to them. This is in great contrast to what Casey did, but I don't think it was so much a matter of choice, as ability.

I do think it is more, rather than less, probable that Casey was abused by George. Casey, however ('I am not a strong person') does not appear to have had the strength or capacity to force a confrontation with one or other, or both, of her parents, in regard to the abuse. There does not appear to be a point where any of them were confronted by reality, they continued life in mutual denial of what went on in the home, they even pretended that Casey wasn't pregnant. As I recall, her brother said he didn't know right up to the point she had actually given birth. That is one seriously messed up family. It seems that Casey did not have the capacity to live independently as an adult because despite the circumstances, she continued to live in the family home. I don't know if that was due to choice, or if it was more because she didn't have any realistic choice due to the psychological consequences caused by abuse and ongoing denial of it, the effects of which could well have rendered her a genuinely vulnerable adult, lacking the wherewithal to be able to live alone, trapped with her abusers, and afraid that Caylee may also be abused.

Social workers will tell how very young abused, even bruised and malnourished children, will sometimes cling desperately to an abusive parent when it comes to the point of him/her being removed from the family home - fear of strangers, and of the unknown is so great in some (often instilled by the parent) that they would prefer the devil they know, so to speak - they don't know any different, they don't understand, they cling to the cruel parent, because that's all they know - abuse is their normal, until they are removed from the situation and learn differently. I don't think Casey ever really grew up, or even knew how to, she wasn't taught, and didn't learn how to make good choices, everything was a lie. The abuse was also emotional and psychological, and from both parents, in indulging her fantasy world, out of guilt, because they knew they had caused her to become that way. Casey grew up stuck in her eight to eleven year old self, because she was kept there by her parents. Emotionally, psychologically stuck at the age when the abuse was occurring, not being able to make sense of it because nobody outside the family saw it, and nobody inside the family was willing to help her, heal her, or save her. That can make for a fragile and dependent adult - not always, but it can, depending on how life develops and who else might enter into that person's life.

Juliet said... anon 2.39

That's my opinion, at this point, anyway, though it may be different by tomorrow. I know you question whether Casey was really abused, but are you doing that out of the belief that because you were a strong enough person to be able to examine and confront your own very distressing situation, move away from it and protect your own children from your abuser, that Casey should also have been able to do the same? She was eight years old and George was her biological father. It really is not the same, though the abuse itself might be. Many victims of childhood sexual abuse go through life without telling a family member about it out of fear of destroying the family, and oddly, a misplaced sense of loyalty towards their abuser. They bury it, or try to, but life doesn't necessarily go on, some remain psychologically trapped at the age when the abuse began. As Casey said, she still loved George, because he was her dad. No, he was her dad until she was eight years old, after which he became something quite different - IF she's telling the truth, which I think, on that, she is. It's so pathetic, it's heart-breaking, but it won't ever excuse her.

Juliet said...

Sus - DeOrr's use of 'replica' made me suspicious from the outset as I thought it must have been a slip of the tongue, and he was thinking to say 'actual' but the truth had slipped out. It's so common for parents who kill their children to wrap their bodies in their blankets, at least if they were loved -there are nearly always blankets, or missing blankets, so I was thinking perhaps they had two, and this was the spare. I was thinking wow, missing blanket - now have to think, wow, speech dyslexia or missing blanket -or maybe both. :-/ I think that's a pretty old blanket though, it looks to be in one of the photos with her elder son in his infancy, too, I can't recall whose FB it is on, but it could well be the same inherited blanket. If DeOrr is dead and not found wrapped in his blanket, I would wonder if someone outside the family had harmed him and disposed of the body, or if he has just wandered away, somewhere, and been lost, had an accident, and died - maybe not at that campsite.


Yes, I know - too much wondering and speculation, not enough speech analysis - I'm terribly I'll-disciplined. :)

Juliet said...

I've had another scout round and found the photo of the elder child with the same blanket - it's in grandma Clegg's 'mobile uploads' album, and I also Googled for images of DeOrr's blanket for comparison. It seems that is DeOrr's treasured inherited blanket, so it's strange it is not with him. I'm not going to jump into a blanket rabbit-hole, just thought to mention it in case it's a piece of the puzzle.

Even 'The Boy in the Box' had his blanket. :-/

Juliet said...

Backward Speech Guy writes:

I welcome free discussion about any topics or cases posted, as well as any questions about backward speech. I am however very liberal on what I will allow to be posted on this page. As many have noticed, I don't put much emphasis on what others think about backward speech or my findings...

...Should you post anything that remotely argues it's validity you will be banned from commenting or participating in any discussions.'

Lols. Gotta love it.

Sus said...

Jen Ow,
I like my homemade soap. I make it for four families counting mine. I've been using it for close to a year. It's mild. It doesn't suds. It isn't a great stain remover, though, or whitener. I probably wouldn't have liked it as well when I had young children with dirt and grass stains on their clothes.

It is supposed to separate. You have to shake it before each use. If you mean you had clumps in it, that means you didn't get your bar of soap melted all the way.

I'll try to copy and paste the blog that has the recipe to here.

Sus said...

Hey Jen Ow,
Let me know if you need toothpaste, deodorant or household cleaner recipes. :-)

Juliet said...

Reverse Speech Guy - Google 'Fair Use'. Sorry, I'm sure your a lovely fabulous wonderful guy, as described, but the internet does not belong to you. You could try banning it, and good luck with that one, too. :)

Sadly, it's not possible to put us all under your irresistible hypnotic power, or to to bully us into silence, but you'll be very pleased to know that some of us are quite enjoying the comedy act, at least so far as it concerns your disclaimer. Priceless, actually. I'm thinking of saving it for educational purposes. :)

Juliet said...

That was meant to be 'you're' - how remiss of me. You might also like to google ' their, there and they're', but it's not obligatory, no-one really cares that much these days.

Anonymous said...


Juliet said...

Kara Rowberry, a friend of Kellen, and the person helping organise the planned big public search for DeOrr has posted on her Facebook page a text message she believes was sent by Tanisha, DeOrr's sister, following the encounter in the store:

'We know it was u and Bryant yesterday with Kellen...U guys are a fucking joke and will be sued for all ur false accusing in the end. If u have a problem with us lets handle it the right way. We know u guys are local. DeOrr and I went to school with ur hoe ass...'

Following this, Jessica and Tanisha turned up at Kara's workplace, and she says they weren't there to talk. The police were called, and took some considerable time to arrive. There are no details. She was very concerned they had found out her place of work

Kellen and Kara's comment sections have both become hysteria-fests of escalating accusations towards the extended family, but if this text originated from Tanisha, well, it is a bit threatening, to say the least. Kara says she didn't go to school with them, another commenter says Kara is being confused with someone who has a very similar name, and who did go to school with them - watch out her, then, :-/ It's all way out of hand - they feed off each other's hysteria.

They've been given the official go ahead for the planned search, the police can't organise it but will be present. They want to search areas lower than those already searched. The group had started a petition for their right to search,which has attracted more than fifty signatures - not a great deal, but enough to create pressure for it to be permitted. They are going to arrange for DeOrr Sr not to have the right to join the search. If little DeOrr is anywhere up there, I hope they find him - I still wouldn't credit it to reverse speech guy, if they did - not to the reversals, then.
Kara Rowberry, a friend of Kellen, and the person helping organise the planned big public search for DeOrr has posted on her Facebook page a text message she believes was sent by Tanisha, DeOrr's sister, following the encounter in the store:

'We know it was u and Bryant yesterday with Kellen...U guys are a fucking joke and will be sued for all ur false accusing in the end. If u have a problem with us lets handle it the right way. We know u guys are local. DeOrr and I went to school with ur hoe ass...'

Following this, Jessica and Tanisha turned up at Kara's workplace, and she says they weren't there to talk. The police were called, and took some considerable time to arrive. There are no details. She was very concerned they had found out her place of work

Kellen and Kara's comment sections have both become hysteria-fests of escalating accusations towards the extended family, but if this text originated from Tanisha, well, it is a bit sinister, to say the least. Kara says she didn't go to school with them, another commenter says Kara is being confused with someone who has a very similar name, and who did go to school with them - watch out her, then, :-/ It's all way out of hand as they feed off each other's hysteria.

They've been given the official go ahead for the planned search, the police can't organise it but will be present. They want to search areas lower than those already searched. The group had started a petition for their right to search,which has attracted more than fifty signatures - not a great deal, but enough to create pressure. They are going to arrange for DeOrr Sr not to have the right to join the search. If little DeOrr is anywhere up there, I hope they find him - I still wouldn't credit it to reverse speech guy, if they did - not to the reversals, then.

Juliet said...

Sorry for the repetition, I cut and pasted that twice, once with some edit - it's too easy to lose posts when composing in the comment box, I use 'Pages' then move it across.

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