Monday, July 10, 2017

911 Call: Daughter Shot

Guilty caller?

Or, is something else going on here?

Here is a transcript of a recent 911 call in which a man found that his daughter had been shot.  Let's listen to what is most important to the subject (caller) to learn the truth.  Thanks to John for transcription.  

OP:  911 where's your emergency?

The question begins with location.  

C: I think I need an ambulance, somebody broke into the house   i dunno two just just  I was upstairs i was sleeping.  I heard two gunshots, my daughter is on the, on the floor..they..

a.  We note that the caller asks for help for himself ("I need") and not his daughter needs.  This is appropriate if he is administering first aid.  If he is not, however, it is a signal that he, himself, needs help. 

b.  We next note the weakness of his assertion.  He only "thinks" he needs an ambulance.  It is very difficult to imagine even a small gun shot wound that one may not know the need for an ambulance. 

c.  Order = priority

We expect a father to say "my daughter is shot!  We are at 1515 Mockingbird Lane!"

What is his order?

1.  he thinks he needs an ambulance; not that he knows
2.  somebody broke into the house; indicating that the shooter was not invited in.  This is, at this point, unnecessary information given the context. 
3.  His location and activity:  he was upstairs and he was asleep.  This is a priority:  he could not have done it because the one who did it "broke in" and his alibi is now established before he reports what happened to his daughter. 
4.  He heard two gun shots.  This is to continue to delay getting to his daughter.  This is reported in a reliable way. 
5.  His daughter's location is given. 

He has not reported that his daughter was shot.  

OP: Okay, slow down,  So you say you were sleeping and you were woken up to two gunshots?  

The operator reflects back to him his own priority:  self preservation.  

C:  Yeah, my daughter is laying on the floor in the house.

Not only does he not give location (urgency, even if 911 has it) but he has not said that his daughter is shot. 

Direct lying is very stressful and it is rare.  When we find it, it is a powerful lens of insight into the personality of the deceiver.  Most all deception is via missing information.  

OP:  Is she shot?

The operator is forced to ask this question.  We now conclude that his daughter being shot is "very sensitive" to him. 

C:  Yeah, shot, two shots.

OP:  Where is she shot at sir?

C:  I dunno I dunno

OP:  She's shot twice you don't know where?

The operator does not believe him.  

We now know he is not administering first aid.  We recognize that guilty callers seek help, but not always for the victim as they recognize on a deeper level, that they are in need of help.  

He has not given his daughter a name yet.  

C: No, I dunno

OP:  On her body?

C:  I guess, well they just fired two shots.  I..she's not talking to me

He refuses to give information and refuses to assist his daughter.  This may suggest that he wants her dead.  

OP:  Is she awake?

C:  No. I dunno 

The "I dunno" along with "no" is a lack of commitment to any specifics.  The need to be vague is associated with deception just as a ridiculous amount of detail calls our attention to the pace.  

OP:  Is she breathing?

C:  Oh my God, I don't know 

a.  Deity noted
b.  refusal to cooperate regarding her physical status.  This, too, suggests intention for murder. 

OP:  Okay, the people that shot her , sir,  where are they?

The operator wisely went with plural because that is what he reported.  

He affirms: 

C:  They ran out of the house

It is interesting that he notes how they left his house.  

OP:  Okay, any description?  Were they males?  Were they females? 

C:  Black hoods

Every interview, including emergency services, will lead the interviewer with one of two conclusions:

Either the caller is working with me to help facilitate the flow of information, no matter how extreme the circumstance, or the caller is working to hinder the flow of information. 

Our subject is deliberately hindering the flow of information by being vague and giving as little information about the victim as possible.  

Now he gives as little information about...

the shooter (s) as possible. 

OP:  Excuse me

C:  They had a black hood.  Black hoods

OP:  Okay, how many were there?

C:  Two, i'd seen 

OP:  Okay, were they white black hispanic?

C:  I couldn't tell

OP:  Okay, they were males?

OP:   They were males, sir.  Two males?

C:  Yes

OP:  OKay, we don't know the race and what were they wearing? 

The use of "we" is very wise as it will slightly disarm him.  To ask him, "you don't know the race?" is to challenge him and put him on the defensive.  Some 911 operators become very good at this.  

C:  Black hoods

OP:  Both in black hoodies?

She changed the language.  This is a mistake.  

C:  Yes

C:  she's dead, C'mon

His daughter has no name. 
He did not know where she was shot or if she was breathing but accepts that she is dead.  This is a red flag because of paternal (and maternal) denial is a powerful instinct.   

With her being dead, what is the need to rush an ambulance?

OP:  And did they leave on foot or a vehicle?

C:  They left on foot I didn't hear nothing..I was..

Here he parrots the operator (reducing commitment) and reports what he did not hear.  Truthful people will, in open statements, tell us what they did hear, see, etc.  

OP interjects.  What direction?

C:  Ugh

OP:  what direction?

C:  I dunno it could've been towards Wimslow

OP:  Okay, well you're in Wimslow did you see what direction they left in?

C:  No I didn't, I told you I was asleep 

Here is his priority.  Incongruence noted.  He did not see which way they went because he was asleep, but while asleep, he did recognize that there were two of them, wearing hoodies and that they ran.  

OP: okay

He continues to build his alibi:  

C:  and my daughter screaming and I got out of bed I thought I was dreaming but I wasn't

OP:  How old is your daughter?

C: 43

OP:  43

C:  yes

OP:  Okay, and what room is she in?

C:  She's in the corner of the house.  I'm in the bathroom.  She's dead

OP: In the corner of the house?

C:   She's dead.  She's not even talking to me

Note the order.  This is what it looks like when one does not speak from experiential memory:

When Casey Anthony's car reeked of human decomposition, she gave an explanation for the order: 

"Dead squirrels climbed up into my engine" 

either the caller is attempting to conceal or he is suffering from dementia. 

OP:  Okay, do you know how these two gentleman got in your house?

C:  No, I dunno, I got through the front door. (The transcript on screen reads "front door", but the audio sounds like "cellar door".

OP:  I have them on the way over there sir

C:  Okay

OP:  Okay, are you able to go in the room and..see your daughter?

Silence for 6 seconds

OP:  Hello!

Analysis Conclusion:

The caller's words reveal that his priority is to establish an alibi to avoid being charged with her murder.  He was deliberate in his attempt to hinder the flow of information to police. 

What caused this fear of being charged? 

 Almost always,  it is guilt, but we must also learn his age and mental capabilities.  If he is very aged and hallucinating, this must be taken into account.  

The "dreaming" is either intent to deceive or a possible indicator of acute dementia. 

Remember that with any forms of dementia, reality is changed.  

If he is in possession of his facilities, with no dementia, he is likely to face charges.  

This happened in the end of June.  Police would know immediately if he suffers from dementia and irrationally feared arrest or if he is involved.  

This is a fascinating example, however, due to the rarity of age.  The broken sentences withheld information...or they simply do not flow due to poor brain processing of Alzheimer's, or other such conditions. 

If you would like formal training in Deception Detection, we offer our Complete Statement Analysis Course to be taken in your home, with 12 months of e support.  Visit Hyatt Analysis Services to enroll.  


Jo said...

OP:  Okay, well you're in Wimslow did you see what direction they left in?

C:  No I didn't, I told you I was asleep 

He was awake for 2 shots and to see two men in black hoods but was asleep again when they ran off and didn't see which way they went.

Peter Hyatt said...

Jo, that is the incongruence noted.

He is either lying or he has dementia and cannot process chronology or in logic.

His daughter was 43, which may put him at advanced years. I don't know yet.


Anonymous said...


What about the presence of medication? Can certain medications usually taken by elderly people affect their reactions to emergency situations?


Jen Ow said...

This past week an elderly local man with dementia shot and killed his wife. He reportedly called 911 and stated that someone was breaking in and trying to hurt his wife and granddaughter, and he shot them. His granddaugter was in the home at the time of the shooting, but it was his wife that he shot (repeatedly), not an intruder.

He was taken into custody and sent for a competency evaluation. It's a terrible and frustrating case, as nobody can fathom why he had access to a firearm in his condition. His attorney says that due to his condition he doesn't know what happened, and has no memory that his wife is even gone, much less that he killed her.

Jen Ow said...

I'm interested to see how the case in this article turns out! Does anyone know if the caller suffers from dementia, or any other details?

Peter Hyatt said...

Great question on Rx, KC.

Short answer: yes

Parkinson's medication is a good example.

Dosage A, strong, means less shaking and better balance, but impacts reasoning abilities.

Dosage B, weak, allows for good cognition but the patient may struggle to even stand up.

Its a terrible trade off.

In training, we had a horrific rape case in which very careful analysis showed...

it was a dream.

yet, without careful training, it would have been easy to miss.


Anonymous said...

In my untrained opinion, he is consistent in his responses in that he does not give the operator good information. The operator has to keep probing and recognizes that he is being difficult. Would dementia or drugs show this same consistency?

Peter Hyatt said...

Not illicit drugs. Dementia could produce this.

The subject is more concerned with self than his daughter. This is regardless of whether it is due to guilt or due to irrational belief (dementia) that he will be arrested.

I have interviewed non verbals and schizophrenia patients and can information from both.

With true dementia, there is a reality that is likely due to perseveration from the past, within the language. This is true even of adults with mental retardation or severe autism. There is always a beginning, or genesis, of language.

This is something that I do not touch upon at the blog but suffice to say...

it is deeper than most would realize and even takes a bit of exploration, sometimes from a person who is honest with self.


Anonymous said...

My mother had dementia and accused a man of raping her while in a nursing home. The man was not there at the time she indicated. Her roommate was able to say that one man came in to check the air conditioner and promptly left the room earlier that morning. Ẃe checked all that we could think of and there was no evidence that would prove her allegation. Her allegation was taken seriously and had to be reported to the state. Sadly, memories from her childhood could have contributed to her accusation.

Anonymous said...

He shot at what he thought were intruders, and killed his dauighter by mistake?

ima.grandma said...

I encourage an openess to the possibility of dementia or a break in reality. The repeated use of wording, disorientation from his surroundings, confusion with spatial time, "shock" speaking first while "reality" slowly creeps in resulting in clearer thoughts and complete sentences.This is one that I'm probably going to need to reign myself in and avoid projecting. I haven't got dementia yet but I'm your resident expert in psychosis. Just ask any long time reader. :)

Anonymous said...

Okay, do you know how these two gentleman got in your house?

C: No, I dunno, I got through the front door. (The transcript on screen reads "front door", but the audio sounds like "cellar door".

Shouldn't that be "they" came in the front or cellar door? If that's not a typo, it's very telling.

Anonymous said...

It's (psychosis) is an employment requirement in your state; John Q. Public is nuts while you do that thing you consistently do.

ima.grandma said...

An unqualified opinion:

What caused this fear of being charged? 
~ the man suffered intense emotional trauma and descended into a form of reactive  psychotic disorder, caused by a severe panic reaction to the sudden death of his daughter. result: manic confusion as evidenced in his speech, particularly at the beginning of his call.
~ persecutory paranoid delusions ~ he was paralyzed with the psychotic idea that he was at fault ~ "they won't believe me" ~ guilt is a primary cause of delusional paranoia

C: I think I need an ambulance, somebody broke into the house   i dunno two just just  I was upstairs i was sleeping.  I heard two gunshots, my daughter is on the, on the floor..they.. 
OP: Okay, slow down,  So you say you were sleeping and you were woken up to two gunshots?  
~ manic confusion, speaking very quickly, disorganized rapid thoughts
C:  Yeah, my daughter is laying on the floor in the house
OP:  Is she shot?
C:  Yeah, shot, two shots. 
OP:  Where is she shot at sir? 
C:  I dunno I dunno 
OP:  She's shot twice you don't know where?

The operator does not believe him.  
~ his brain may be unable to process and  interpret what the OP is saying but he recognizes OP's change in tone of voice ~ paranoia deepening.
~ side effect of his word repetition is that the more he repeats words that he feels sensitive about, the more his emotions come to the forefront.  ~ his brain isn't ready to process intense emotions and trauma ~ psychosis continuing
~ emotional dysregulation contributes to his denial of traumatic event 
~ in turn makes it even harder for him to disengage from those words and shift focus to new questions from the OP.

C: No, I dunno 
OP:  On her body? 
C:  I guess, well they just fired two shots.  I..she's not talking to me
OP:  Is she awake? 
C:  No. I dunno 
OP:  Is she breathing? 
C:  Oh my God, I don't know
a.  Deity noted
~  reality beginning to flash through his mind, like a camera clicking backwards through photos

Katprint said...

The thing about severe dementia, or severe mental illnesses in general, is that they almost always have manifested prior to a crime occurring. Many criminals may try to claim mental illness as a legal defense or as an explanation why they don't remember what happened or why their story keeps changing. For example, lately we have seen Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias claiming to have had an inexplicable "blackout" which never happened before or since.

So, if someone's 911 call is affected by severe dementia (as presumably mild dementia would not noticeably affect their mental processing of information) then there will likely be health care providers, neighbors, family members etc. who can provide information about that. A freakish 911 call is highly unlikely to be the first sign of dementia.

ima.grandma said...

Katprint,  I always value your opinions which are clearly based on professional experience. I thank you for sharing your insights.

Psychosis as a sign of illness is often compared to fever since both can have multiple causes that are not readily apparent.

ima.grandma said...


Daughter's obituary snip: In lieu of flowers, the family asks donations to be made to Wilson’s Disease Association.

dysarthria: this is the medical term for speech abnormality. The dysarthria in Wilson's disease can take many forms, including slurring, low volume, a repetitive aspect in trying to pronounce certain words, and can progress to complete inability to speak (anarthria).

About one third of patients initially present with psychiatric abnormalities, including depression, personality and mood changes.

habundia said...

Jo said...
OP: Okay, well you're in Wimslow did you see what direction they left in?

C: No I didn't, I told you I was asleep

He was awake for 2 shots and to see two men in black hoods but was asleep again when they ran off and didn't see which way they went.

July 10, 2017 at 9:49 AM

Add to it
"OP: Okay, do you know how these two gentleman got in your house?

C: No, I dunno, I got through the front door. (The transcript on screen reads "front door", but the audio sounds like "cellar door"."

All while asleep.......

@Peter he said it was his daughter, still he didn't act and talked as if she was his daughter, he not once said her name. Could she have been a steph daughter who some of them call them daughter but in their hearts they ain't really their daughter.

Katprint, I was thinking too if dementia was already present (this illness doesn't start over night), than there would be medication and some form of help or care, there would be some kind of trackrecord found for it.

I wonder where the "dementia" came from, the 911 script doesn't mention anything about dementia. Only his words are interepted as maybe having dementia.
So I am not sure how this illness was brought in.

Why I don't think dementia is the case, is because he knows it's his daughter that's been shot......what I have seen of dementia is that many forget or don't remember close ones, forgetting names, faces (but then again maybe that's why he doesn't say her name, he maybe can't remember?)
Also does dementia come with looking for words.....saying wrong words before using the right, if they even still know the right word without help. He doesn't sound like this is happening with him. He maybe is stumbling, who wouldn't be if you just witnessed a shooting (of your daughter), done by hand or done by others, it would leave most people into some kind of shock.....only maybe professional or serial killers would lack that kind of shock
He knows the words, not making mistakes in his wording.
To me it doesn't sound like dementia, but I could be wrong.

Anonymous said...

Hey all,

I've been immersed in this blog since discovering it about two weeks ago!

This analysis caught my attention because it's local to me.

Police made two arrests of a 20 year old and 17 year old. From checking all articles I've found, the father does not appear to have any connection to the crime. I've also not found any information on the dad suffering from any kind of diminished mental capacity. The only thing I did find was a Facebook post from his other daughter on Father's Day. He doesn't appear too "advanced" (maybe mid-sixties) but I did notice a prosthetic hand.

Anyway, love everyone's contributions.