Saturday, August 25, 2018

Rev. Thomas Chantry Child Abuse Trial

While sexual abuse of children is now in media over priests in the Roman Catholic Church, the abuse is not limited to priests, nor to religious organizations. Pedophiles are drawn to anywhere access to children is readily obtained. Religious and civic organizations provide a psychological cover or "justification" to moralize the abuse. 

Rev. Thomas Chantry is on trial for physical and sexual abuse of children from 1995 to 2000, in Arizona. 

He is said to have "disciplined" children corporally, who were not his own children. 

In addition to this, he is said to have done so with bare bottom, leaving bruises, and with at least one victim claiming sexual fondling. 

He is reported to have "disciplined" children at his church, and when caught, fled the state and got a job in a Christian school.  It is alleged that there he won the trust of parents and repeated the alleged assaults upon other children. 

If true, this is a pattern that uses "discipline" as his cover for abuse. 

There was another police report made stating that the accused bruised yet another child, but the judge did not allow this to be heard by the jury. 

Thomas Chantry left Prescott, Arizona, years ago and became a pastor in Wisconsin. He was arrested in 2016 when accusations of molestation and abuse from more than 20 years ago were formally made.  Alleged victims and their families first reported incidents of abuse to the church but no reports were made to the police until 2015.

There are not enough statements for a conclusion, yet using the few thus far, along with behavioral analysis, there may be some strong opinions.  I express mine here.  

I have been viewing coverage of this case and have the following observations:

1. From the few statements I have seen, the alleged victims appear to be speaking from experiential memory. The statements are not reported in full in the media, which reduces this to an educated opinion; not Statement Analysis.  You won't find "Analysis Conclusion" at the bottom of this article. 

The prosecutor stated that the alleged victims, now adults, have no agenda, nor #metoo desire for fame.  This is immaterial to the allegation, and is something that is analyzed only after Statement Analysis has gotten to the truth. 

2.  The accused has not, to my knowledge, issued a denial (or any statement) for discernment. In court, he testified "absolutely not guilty", using the emphasis "absolutely." This is true, judicially; but it is not a reliable denial. It is a "weak assertion" with its need to call upon "absolute" in his status. Deception is not indicated on such a small point. 

3.  Behavioral Analysis: fleeing the church after "disciplining" children that were not his own, the seeking of a school is consistent with predation. 

4.  Claim:  "Children making false allegations is extremely rare."

I am familiar with the research that is used in this claim.  It is oft quoted but not experienced by investigators.  I once had a judge--a judge who presided over family court, say that it was "impossible for a child to make a false allegation" against a parent. For her, there were no exceptions, nor possibility of exception. I shudder, even now, to think of the injustice done over decades.  

This statement was made was shortly after a child confessed to me that she had falsely accused her next door neighbor of sexual touching, coached by her mother. 


She did this because her mother owed the neighbor $1,000 and wanted to get away with not paying him.  The mother was willing to send him to prison to avoid paying this debt. She was also willing to abuse her own daughter to accomplish this.  

I interviewed the child, then interviewed the mother, and then interviewed the accused. 

The child's language in certain parts was parroted to her mother's, who frequently attempted to enter into the interview of the child. 

The accused issued a reliable denial, stated that he "told the truth" to me, and was scared out of his mind.  He was lonely and befriended the single mother, who manipulated him into paying her rent for 2 months.  

The interview with the mother? It was fascinating to see how many times the topic of money entered her language.  I took detailed notes. 

There are parents like this who believe they so deserve custody that it justifies a false allegation. 

Those who work in the field know not to approach any investigation with such foolish preconceived notion. 

Children making false accusations is not "extremely rare."  In embittered custody disputes, it is almost routine. Children parrot the language of one parent over another, allowing for our discernment. 

 In an open statement, however (once they are freely engaged in a legally sound recorded interview) they will go off adult script  and reveal the truth.  Children know how to repeat adult sentences, but it is not part of their own personal internal subjective dictionaries.  

Statement Analysis protects genuine child victims and it protects falsely accused adults. The legally sound interview avoids leading questions but especially avoids interpretation. In the world of #metoo, we have seen genuine victims, copycats, wannabe's and outright false allegations made. 

Many professionals in the child protective world are not only well trained in interviewing, but are most sober-minded with experience.  They seek to bring children to the free editing process, so that the child's own language, uninterrupted, will guide them. 

5. The impact of physical abuse, alone, can be lifetime; including suffering mentally and physically.  Sexual abuse introduces an entirely new dynamic of suffering.  It is very difficult to quantify. It can often lead to generational suffering by generational offense. 

6.  The denomination board  that investigated the accused failed to make a report to law enforcement. I do not know their motive, which is why "coverup" is unfair to state at this time.  If they did not believe the accusations, it does not justify failure of mandated reporting of a crime. 

If they believed the accusations and did not act, they are complicit in obstructing justice and very likely put more children in harm's way. 

The judge in the trial was quoted as saying that the denominational body, if on trial, would likely be found guilty of cover up.  This gives insight into the judge's opinion of the validity of the accusations. 

Denial is an instant reaction to claims of sexual abuse that it is "expected" among others, including close familiar relationships and family.  I leave it to "facebook psychics" or "mind readers" to know motive, where no statements exist for discernment. 

7.  That the accused appears to have admitted "disciplining" children that were not his own, it is not a stretch to consider that he either pulled down their pants, or had them do it. A bold inappropriate act would need to be justified in the alleged abuser's mind, which often leads to repetition and escalation.  (criminal boldness increases with success and lack of legal consequence) In this context, he could use religious justification for his alleged crimes. 

Although both were forms of physical abuse with the element of humiliation, the latter may have an even longer lasting impact, including brain development. self medication (substance abuse) self loathing, suicidal ideation, and compromised immune system.  Child victims blame themselves, show indications of post trauma stress, such as hyper vigilance, and because of this, sometimes become chronically ill due to the taxed immune system.  Some seek relief through suicide.  The betrayal is acute and it is something that may never been fully understood by the victim.  

8. If the accused did commit these offenses, this is likely a reflection of something traumatic that caused his brain, in childhood, to associate pain, humiliation and sexual arousal as one element. He would thus likely be a victim who became a victimizer. This is a typical pattern in child abuse investigations.  There must be a source, including victimized in childhood *(during brain development) , coming upon pornography in childhood. That it includes physical pain suggests the former more than the latter. 

Behavioral Analysis Consistent with Pedophilia: 

That the alleged accuser had a "cooling off period" but still  went to a school where children were is indicative of sexual predation. 

After physically abusing children, with or without parental permission, upon his initial departure, it would have been predicted that he would seek employment where he would have more access to children. It is not a coincidence. 

9.  The coverage of this in media has been scant, yet one blogger's language reveals a contempt which dedicates more language to "gloating" than to news reporting. His lack of empathy for the victims is noteworthy in two ways:

a. its absence 
b. its "need to assert" it. 

Human empathy 

10. This same coverage has the need to claim empathy for victims; rather than it revealed in the language. Very few words are dedicated towards the alleged victims; many words are used to celebrate or "gloat" over the accused.  The volume of both is stark.  This type of coverage is not journalism, but "mind reading" and does more to reveal the background and experiences of the writer, than to cover a trial. The "need to persuade" weakens assertions. The author's claim of "knowing" that one is lying follows agenda, not discernment.  When one believes oneself to be on a "divine mission" (in any language and in any form), such excesses proceed from a damaged starting point that, if unaddressed, can lead to crisis. 

 Deception Detection is not a gift, a television program, nor a means of obtaining knowledge beyond the senses of man.  It is a science to be learned and applied. 

11. Had anyone physically "disciplined" my children, I would have had to have been physically restrained from doing the same to him, lest I be arrested for assault in taking the law into my own hands. Fathers I personally know would admit the same. 

12.  The accused's friends and colleagues are not properly discerning truth from deception due to behavior of the accused that appears to them to be entirely inconsistent with the accusations.  They have known a "good guy" for many years, and cannot fathom one behaving this way in secret.  This is not unusual, even with sociopathic killers, when their family, neighbors and friends are interviewed.  

Chided by the judge, one defense witness yield minimum information prior. This is to withhold truth while under oath. 

Although without direct statements to analyze, my opinion that the accused did in fact abuse these victims, including sexually, either by sexualized environment or fondling,   is only my opinion;  the accused is judicially innocent.  I did not find enough statements for posting analysis. 

I have not spoken to the investigators nor seen the transcripts.  

Pedophiles are notorious for seeking out schools, scouting, youth programs (including sports)  and churches due to access to children.  

The recent news story of 300 priests and the subsequent cover up of their child abuse is in context of waves of similar reports years ago. 

Whether it be sports, schooling or religion, pedophiles seek coverage for their crimes against children.  

The impact of childhood sexual abuse has not, to date, been appropriately classified. Each story is unique and I have yet, to date, interviewed a victim who has not had life long impact. From compromised immune systems (and all that this entails) to substance abuse to suicidal ideation to offending, the consequence is acute. 

I assert that processing is the most useful tool, and one most easily exploited by financially driven therapists. This is often why I reference journaling.  I believe that any form of processing must accompany strong support, nutrition and exercise. 

Peter Hyatt 

update:  The jury found Chantry guilty of physical assault, but deadlocked on the sexual abuse charges.  Due to the context, frequency, cooling off period and return to abuse, sexual abuse is likely. 


General P. Malaise said...

thank you for this post Peter. You demonstrate the importance of the discipline required to be consistent with the science of Statement Analysis.

rjb said...

I am from Prescott, and from 2000 - 2004 my mother and I were both employees of a Christian school that met at the church where Chantry had been a pastor. One of the families who attended both the school and the church had been at the church their childrens entire lives (born in the late 80's and early 90s) and the father was an elder. I directed their son in several school plays and he started to "act out" in high school. After he graduated he went completely off the rails with drugs, alcohol, and blatant sexual depravity that he seemed to enjoy rubbing in the faces of his parents and his former teachers (my mom was employed at the new school as well and taught this young man through his senior year.) We have wondered several times what happened that the sweet, goofy, good boy that we met when he was 11 devolved into the person that he is today. I don't know if this young man is one if the alleged victims but if he is it would certainly explain so much.

Statement Analysis Blog said...


your post is a reminder of consideration without glee. I hope the young man, regardless of the source of addiction, overcomes.

The toll of child abuse is, still, impossible to measure. Each time I think I understand it, from the language and interviews of adult survivors, something new arises.

Susan Murphy Milano watched her sister raped by her drunken police officer father. She "offered" herself instead to save her baby sister.

Her siblings went on to some terrible trials in language. Susan's father committed murder suicide. Susan's. brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia and when we last spoke, he was homeless.

Susan gave up a lucrative career to work for victims. It was projective, natural and effective.

Yet, with the strength that amazed me, her body could not fight off bastard cells of cancer. God called her home, where she would never suffer again.

Her work continues, through the inspiration she gave many, including me.

Police do not struggle with human nature. They are, because of this, the easiest to instruct in Statement Analysis.

They also suffer more trauma and secondary trauma than we know or admit. The "1,000 stare" is in more eyes I see than absent. The women officers? They have to exercise greater courage in light of lesser physical strength.

They all are underpaid, under appreciated and UNDER cared for. When President Obama went public with his deceptive claim of racism, he not only indirectly caused death and suffering, but law enforcement professionals have not yet recovered from his political exploitation.

We pay "make believe" tough guys millions, while neglect our law enforcement professionals. Even seeing and intervening in child abuse cases is to experience secondary trauma.

There is nothing to "gloat" over. We seek justice, and then are left with the wake of destruction in children' lives that so desperately need attention. This is why I did not link to the one blogger who covered the trial in hyperbolic, persuasive, and in language that suggests some issues.

Thank you for your post. It's given me opportunity to remind readers of the work of Susan Murphy Milano, as well as the chance to remind us all what the men and women of law enforcement do for us.

Like military,

they stand guard while we sleep.

Peter Hyatt

Statement Analysis Blog said...

part one of what to listen for in adults that suffered childhood abuse...

habundia said...

Tania Cadogan said...

Thanks Peter.
I have also bookmarked it as well.

Anonymous said...


Sadly this could have went horribly wrong for the then accused

NAACP: Man accused of urinating on black girl committed hate crime, assault


Children made up story about white man urinating on black child: police

Anonymous said...

Peter thank you for your strong support of law enforcement. As a law enforcement officer myself, I can say without reservation that if people fully understood just how pervasive child sex offenders and child pornography is, and the undeniable relationship between the two, they would be absolutely shocked. It's truly and sadly everywhere.

LuciaD said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Paul said...

Peter, are there any training or resources that you would recommend to prevent problems like this? Thanks.

Tania Cadogan said...

Off topic BBM

A father was allegedly led to kill his 13-year-old son after the boy found 'compromising' photos of him in diapers and eating feces.

Dylan Redwine went missing in November 2012 while on a court-ordered visit with his father, Mark, in Colorado.

The child's remains were found seven months later scattered in southwestern Colorado mountains by wild animals.

Prosecutors now say that Redwine may have killed Dylan after he was confronted about the 'disturbing' pictures.

Redwine was arrested on Saturday and indicted by a grand jury with charges of second-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death after the four-and-a-half-year investigation.

Redwine has constantly denied playing a role in his son's death and at one point appeared on Dr Phil to blame his ex-wife for the child's death.

Cory Redwine, Dylan's older brother, revealed that he had seen the photos.

'I have seen the photos. It shows him wearing women's clothes and makeup and a diaper and then eating his feces from the diaper. It was disgusting. We couldn't believe it,' he told ABC7.

Dylan's mother, Elaine Hall, added that she believes her son confronted her ex-husband about the photos and was murdered for it.

'He may have said something that just didn't set well with Mark and Mark reacted in a very violent way…obviously. Dylan is no longer here,' Hall said on a February 2015 podcast.

Redwine is being held in Bellingham, Washington, on a $1million bond and is facing extradition to Colorado, the Durango Herald reported.

However, the issue of whether he will fight extradition will be decided at a later date after confusion over whether Redwine was offered his right to waive the hearing.

On Monday, the court was given an outline of the charges against him and bail was set.

In the grand jury indictment, investigators said blood was found in multiple locations in Redwine's living room, including his couch.

Cadaver dogs even found the scent of a dead body in various locations in the home and on the clothes Redwine wore the night Dylan disappeared, the indictment says.

In 2014, the cadaver dog also picked up the scent of a body in the bed of Redwine's pickup truck, according to the indictment.

Authorities also said Redwine had mentioned how investigators would have to find his son's skull before they determined how the teen died.

Dylan lived north of Colorado Springs with his mother but went to his father's home near Vallecito Reservoir northeast of Durango for a court-ordered visit in November 2012.

His dad said he returned home from doing errands to find his son had gone. The two parents subsequently blamed each other for their son's disappearance.

But in June 2013, Dylan's partial remains were found on Middle Mountain.

Hikers found his skull 1.5miles away in November 2015, according to 9News.

Investigators said Dylan's skull was found in difficult terrain that was easily accessible by a road that Redwine was very familiar with.

Tania Cadogan said...


The skull had injuries consistent with blunt force trauma and two small markings that appeared to be tool marks from a knife, the indictment alleges.

Months after the first remains were found in 2013, Hall said she believed her ex-husband killed Dylan.

'I always have from day one, when he was missing,' she told The Pine River Times at the time.

According to the indictment, Dylan had not been getting along with his father prior to his disappearance as he watched his two parents in the midst of a bitter divorce and custody battle.

Hall told authorities that her ex-husband told her he would 'kill the kids before he let her have them', the indictment alleges.

On Wednesday, police released body camera footage of Redwine being arrested.

The video shows police approach Redwine's truck with their guns drawn, giving instructions over a loudspeaker for him to leave the truck and get down on the ground, which he did.

Then Redwine, wearing a red T-shirt and a baseball cap, can be seen in the footage lying on his stomach with his hands by his head before police handcuff him.

Later in the nine-minute video, they tell him he is being arrested in connection with a warrant for second degree murder.

Tania Cadogan said...

I'm watching Baby Vanished:People Magazine Investigates.
It is about missing DeOrr Junior going missing.
So many red flags.
I am more listening to it than watching and my little alarm is going ding ding

Sheila said...

Lucia, It's not easy for a person to get a 10 yr jail sentence based on simply someone's word alone. Please research the law and how convictions are handed over and sentences handed out. How do you know what your friend did or didn't do? Were you there? What were the charges against your friend? Were you at the trial? Do you understand there would have had to have been some kind of evidence? People don't end up doing 10 years in jail based on nothing more than someone's statement and 10 year jail sentences are not handed out for child abuse unless it was incredibly severe child abuse.

LuciaD said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

update: The jury found Chantry guilty of physical assault,

MsGvious said...

Peter, thanks for your blog.

Extract from Chantry Verdict Article

"Another question asked was whether or not bare-bottom spanking and rubbing of the bottom was considered sexual molestation. The court agreed that it was not considered molestation under Arizona law."

I thought corporal punishment was banned, let alone rubbing of the bottom. That's creepy.

Sheila said...

Lucia, Doesnt change the points I made. People dont just wnd up sitting in jail awaiting trial for child abuse based on nothing. If cops arrested him, that means they have evidence. If you wish to complain how unfairly and easily persecuted your froend has been, why dont you tell us what the charges are? How do you know the 10 year old is lying?

Statement Analysis Blog said...

Paul said...
Peter, are there any training or resources that you would recommend to prevent problems like this? Thanks.
August 26, 2018 at 5:45 PM

I will address this soon. I am in training this week, but will get to it. Peter

Unknown said...

What about the claims that schizophrenia is purely genetic? Which percentage of people with schizophrenia has experienced severe trauma in childhood? From those I know of: everyone. Have yet to meet someone diagnosed with it who hasn't experienced in most cases sexual abuse, often ongoing for years.

LuciaD said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

"Lucia, Doesnt change the points I made. People dont just wnd up sitting in jail awaiting trial for child abuse based on nothing."
I suggest you watch a few episodes of Forensic Files where people in jail were later cleared by forensic evidence.

"If cops arrested him, that means they have evidence. "
Not evidence. Maybe some circumstantial evidence. But you don't need evidence against you to be arrested.

"If you wish to complain how unfairly and easily persecuted your froend has been, why dont you tell us what the charges are? How do you know the 10 year old is lying?"

Very true. But neither you nor her can claim that the person is innocent or guilty. Unless you show a little bit more. We are not here to believe or disbelieve anyone. But rather use SA to help guide us to what took place.

LuciaD said...

Oh Mike I wish I had their statements!!

Unknown said...

It would be very interesting to see those, Lucia. As it would be if Peter could share an example of a statement from a child where it later turned out that he or she was coached and no sexual abuse took place.

LuciaD said...

I agree. There are also cases (my friend’s may be one) where the child was abused, but accuses the wrong person. It’s called perpetrator substitution, or I believe perseveration would be similar.

Sheila said...

Lucia, Im not engaging with you any further unless you would like to share facts like what the charges are, the evidence, etc. Otherwise, it is ludicrous to expect me to jump on your blanket statement about how easy it is for innocent people to be charged with child abuse and thrown in jail. I am not some disgruntled Dad sitting around drinkimg stale coffee, rolling my own cigarettes with some type of hipster goatee half-way down my chest who's going to join in with your simplistic and self-serving fallacies about the legal system persecuting innocent Dads.

Sheila said...

Mike, Yes, you are correct. My own interpretation of schizophrenia is that it is an internalization (or introjection) of one or both abusive voices of the abusive parents, abuse that typically involved sexual abuse as the voices (and the patient's very rational efforts to interpret the sources of these "heard" voives) often warn the patient not to let anyone find out his (or her) "secret". It seems utterly obvious, but I think psychiatry is strangely hesitant about acknowledging the catastrophic damage to the psyche caused by abuse and trauma. In the schizophrenic patient there is simply enough fragility of the ego (caused by the abuse!) whereby the voices from the abusive parents become introjected and perceived as "real" & originating from outside the patient instead of an echo from the past. But it is the introjection (the breakdown of the ego that allows the content of those voices into the psyche as actual audible hallucinations) that leads to the patient hearing them and thinking they are real. Repeated trauma is profoundly destructive to the psyche & certain types of abuse (particularly sexual abuse) cause imbalances, deterioration and/or a type of porous/fragile psyche that (much like a destroyed immune system) allows the abusive voices to infiltrate the psyche, much like a terrible virus passing through the body's immune defenses. This is my own theory, but I think it is quite valid.

Anonymous said...

@Lucia D: Around here divorce courts have a policy of always siding with the mother, if a mother is abusive and abandons the family, but later asks for custody, the father will be removed from the house, and the mother can move in with the kids. If the mother fails to follow court mandates (like not attending anger management, or canceling a child's dental care) and is held in contempt, it is likely that she will not be punished.

Anonymous said...

Sheila @ 1:15,

Your theory makes sense to me.

Sheila said...

Anon, Thank you. I have read quite a bit about schizophrenia & the patients are as far gone as they are because they are simply trying to make sense of where these auditory hallucinations are coming from...that's when the delusions come into play ie. is there a microchip implanted in them? Aliens or enemies transmitting the voices, etc. Anyone would try to make sense of where the voices were coming from. But the voices themselves are introjected voices of the abusive parents. Here is a simulation of those voices & the types of things they say

habundia said...

I watched a docu "thoughest prisons' on netflix where a woman sat in jail for 8 years without a trial to be found not guilty. So it does happen people being send to jail for many years before it is shown the evidence was misinterpreted or was sabotaged on intent......these things do happen.

habundia said...

A couple cases of men who were convicted of rape based on victims identification only.
And there are many more.

Unknown said...

Lucia, perpetrator substitution is also common among people who claim to have been abducted and "experimented on" by "aliens". It is a way to express some of the trauma of what was the actual event while masking it and getting attention for it at the same time. It is not always easy to snap out of as doing so usually includes having to face what actually happened. I am pretty sure that statement analysis allows us to let the victims tell us the real story. But we need the right interviewers. Not just cops dying to "make an arrest". Speaking of such, there are not enough police officers available to truly solve these types of crimes.

MsGvious said...

Chile Church scandal: 'How I escaped the priest who abused me for decades'

MsGvious said...

How Hands Convicted A Paedophile (FULL DOCUMENTARY) BBC Stories


In July 2014, police in Manchester arrested a 34-year-old man on suspicion of filming himself raping a child. In the video, the face of the perpetrator was hidden but his hands were visible.

Detectives felt they had the right suspect in custody, but did not have enough evidence to secure a conviction.

With time running out, they turned to Dame Professor Sue Black, a forensic anthropologist who is an expert in the identification of anatomical features, including hands.

Produced by Craig Langran and James Stewart.