Sunday, March 10, 2019

Training Announcements Spring 2019

Spring Announcements

Team Analysis Training for March:

Tuesday, March 26th, 9am to 3pm.   EST 

Thursday, March 28th, 12Noon to 6pm.   EST

Training Certificates of Completion next due out 1 April, 2019. 

Please make sure you have the complete name and mailing address sent to 


Sex Crimes Unit: Discerning Truth with Victims training -- this is for sex crimes units, psychologists, social workers, etc, who have successfully trained in Statement Analysis.  Inquires 

Scheduling for joint seminar for law enforcement, including Advanced Analysis and HWA Steve Johnson 

Steve combines psycho-linguistic profiling of Statement Analysis with lessons in handwriting analysis for both law enforcement and business. 


Versailles said...

Are you going to do SA on the two accusers of Michael Jackson?

I am so happy that someone finally found the courage to speak out about Jackson and his rape and abuse of children.

Unknown said...

Hi Mr Hyatt.

If I recall correctly, you had made a statement analysis of Wade Robson being interviewed by Matt Laurer of NBC in 2013, where you detected deception. I have been searching on your Blogger site here and cannot find. Is it still up? (or maybe I am mistaken?). Thank you.

Unknown said...

Blogger Unknown said...
Hi Mr Hyatt.

Versailles said...

It was heartbreaking to watch. The way they said "we", and how they, despite the abuse, would do anything to be with Jackson. It may not have been hurtful physically, they may even have experienced that it felt good (I feel sick just typing this). How is a child to know that it is wrong, when the person you admire the most says that it is a sign of love? And not just any man, but a man who is loved and adored by millions. He must be right, right?

The grooming was textbook on how it is done.

Anonymous said...

OT: Kay Wenal -> unsolved cold case including anonymous letter


On May 1, 2008, 72-year old millionaire real estate developer Hal Wenal returned to his home in Lawrenceville, Georgia and discovered his 60-year old wife, Eva Kay Wenal, had been murdered. She had been punched in the face and her throat was slashed twice. The first slash was enough to kill her, the second one is described as an "insurance" cut, meaning the killer wanted her dead for sure.

There were no signs of forced entry, which seemed to indicate that Kay let her killer into the house. Nothing was stolen and Kay was not sexually assaulted.

Hal Wenal had an ironclad alibi and was cleared as a suspect.

The only major lead was provided by a witness who saw an unidentified man walking through the neighborhood near the Wenal home on two separate occasions, both before and after the murder. He was a white male with graying brown hair who wore wire rimmed glasses and did not match the description of any of the neighborhood’s residents. A composite sketch was made.

Hal died of a heart attack two years later. When his family was going through his personal possessions they found a box containing old photographs. Some of these photos featured a man who bore a striking resemblance to the unidentified suspect. At least one of the photos is time-stamped from 1987 and in another picture the man is standing alongside Hal and Kay, so they obviously knew him. Yet no one associated with the Wenals has any idea who this man is.

Two-and-a-half months after the murder, an anonymous letter was sent to the Atlanta Journal-Constitutionb(a local newspaper). Someone went to the trouble of cutting words and letters out of magazines and pasting them together to form sentences. Police believe the writer is the killer. The angry, profanity-filled letter reads:

I bet Kay Wenal never told anyone what she really was
It turns out she was just a $ grubbing w----e!
I loved her She said we could be together
She told me that she hated her house and
That fat Miserable lying mother f-ing husband
She said She loved me But that was a lie too
I told her this would happen if she didn't
Keep her g--damned promises to me
her F---ing family screwed
Everything up Those white trash
assh---s His money was more important than our love.
We could have been so happy together but
They f---ed everything up



Unknown said...

Hi unknown at 10:39.

I have found those Wade Robson posts before. I remember Hyatt made a longer analysis of Robson. I recall it b/c it was helpful in my judgement about Robson, but I don't see it on this blog anymore. Again I could be mistaken it was on this blog. Maybe it was a different blog.

Anonymous said...

Y'all needs to see this for yourselves.

Tania Cadogan said...

Off topic

PORTLAND, Maine – The mother of a toddler whose disappearance prompted the biggest criminal investigation in Maine history says she's been unable to locate the father.

Trista Reynolds tells WGME-TV no one can find Justin DiPietro, who reported then-20-month-old Ayla Reynolds missing in 2011 in Waterville.

Court documents show DiPietro's last known address was in California.

State police have long believed the girl is dead, and a judge declared her legally dead in 2017.

Reynolds has blamed DiPietro for the toddler's death. But the body has never been found and no charges have been filed.

Last year, Reynolds filed a wrongful death lawsuit but she says her team is running out of time to serve DiPietro with legal papers. She posted a plea on social media this week for information about his whereabouts.

Information from: WGME-TV,

Anonymous said...

Tania, that's crazy!

Anonymous said...

What you Are Saying is on Point.

John Mc Gowan said...

Woman says she was attacked for wearing MAGA gear: 'This happened because we wore those hats'

Habundia said...

When I read comments of people who know the subject of which statements are being analysed so often they say things like "I know this person, if you knew them you wouldn't say these things (if a statement has deception in it or sensitive words or if the words spoken give suspicion of fail play)
why do people think because they know the person that that person isn't capable of what they are suspected of?
Did anyone ever knew a person of which they would say (without suspicious circumstances) that they think they would be capable of murder?
Doesn't everybody think of people they 'know' that they wouldn't do something like that or did anyone ever heard someone say...."I think (name of person) could kill, could molest, could kidnap...etc.?
I don't think the average person will think/say that about someone they know. In my world I think it's ignorant to think/say someone isn't capable or wouldn't do the end in the 'right' circumstances everyone is capable of murder also people who are close to you.

Tania Cadogan said...

off topic

Jussie Smollett strutted into his hearing this afternoon where a judge ruled that cameras will be allowed for his arraignment this week, but it's up to the case's appointed presiding judge to determine the use of cameras for all future proceedings.

The Empire actor arrived at Cook County criminal court around 11am CST wearing reflective sunglasses and offering a slight smile.

He was not required to be there, but reportedly chose to attend the hearing to prove he intends to be an active participant in his defense. He entered with Tina Glandian, a lawyer from his attorney Mark Geragos' firm.

Judge LeRoy Martin Jr allowed for one still camera and one video camera to be present at 36-year-old Smollett's next court appearance, which will be his arraignment on Thursday.

But from there an appointed judge who will preside over the case can ultimately decide over the use of cameras for all future proceedings.

A grand jury indicted Smollett last week on 16 felony counts accusing him of lying to the police about being the victim of a racist and homophobic attack by two masked men in downtown Chicago.

Police allege that Smollett, who is black and gay, staged the January 29 attack because he was unhappy with his salary and wanted to promote his career.

During Tuesday's hearing Smollett's attorney Glandian was in favor of having cameras in the courtroom saying the defense wanted the public to see what happens in court.

'In light of the substantial amount of misinformation in the case, the defense actually welcomes cameras in the courtroom,' she said as per the Chicago Tribune.

'We welcome cameras in the courtroom so that the public and the media can see the actual evidence — and what we believe is actually going to be the lack of evidence — against Mr. Smollett and we look forward to complete transparency and the truth coming out,' she added.

It was the first time Smollett was in court since his arrest.

The actor requested permission to leave the state this month to visit California, where his attorney Mark Geragos is based.

Smollett is free on $100,000 bond and has another hearing scheduled for Thursday where he'll be arraigned for those 16 felony counts and where a judge will be assigned over his case.

That judge has the power to potentially reverse or modify any decision made Tuesday about cameras in the courtroom.

He is facing a maximum sentence of 48 years behind bars and fines of up to $400,000.

Smollett's attorneys have called the charges 'prosecutorial overkill' and the actor has vehemently maintained his innocence.

He is expected to cut a plea deal with authorities, according to experts cited by ABC.

Cops initially investigated the case as a hate crime but piecing together surveillance camera footage it led them to Nigerian bodybuilding brothers Abel and Ola Osundairo, aged 25 and 27, who were extras on Empire and worked with the actor fitness coaches.

During 47 hours of questioning the pair told police Smollett planned out the fake attack himself and paid them $3,500 to carry it out.

The brothers' lawyer Gloria Schmidt said they were 'taken advantage of' by the star in the hoax attack.

Tania Cadogan said...


Their lawyer maintained that the check written out to the brothers was for training and not explicitly for the attack.

'It would be such an easy narrative to see it that way but it's a very complicated relationship... If you're friends and I'm saying, "Hey, I'm going to pay you for training but I'm also asking you to do me a favor" and the favor was to stage the attack,' Schmidt said on Good Morning America.

About three weeks after the brothers were arrested, prosecutors charged Smollett with making a false report.

Since then he's been written off of the final episodes of the show that skyrocketed him to fame.

The fifth season of Empire premieres on Wednesday and Smollett was notably absent from all of the show's promotional photos for the next chapter.

Anonymous said...

OT: Kay Wenal

Further to my above comment on this case: I think Kay’s husband Hal orchestrated the murder and then wrote the letter in an effort to take suspicion away from him.

There’s this video showing part of investigators’ interview with Hal (scroll down to approx. 1/3 of the page). I feel he is acting, almost to the point of taunting the interviewer.

In the interview, Hal talks about ”the guy who did this” and “he” and “him” as if he knows the killer, whereas to this day it is unknown whether the killer was a man or a woman and how many people were involved. He also says he knew something was wrong when he couldn’t reach Kay on his way home. And when he got home he wasn’t walking but “double-timing” to the front door. Was it thát unusual for Kay to not answer his calls? Or is there a deeper story here? Did he walk in on his “two-timing” wife at an earlier stage? And/or: did he know something was wrong because he arranged the hit?

Hal also tried to implicate Kay’s ex-husband saying her ex threatened Kay when she was trying to leave him. Why does he say “trying”? Kay actually left her ex for Hal. Also: Kay left her ex 20 years before she was killed. Are we to believe that her ex bore a grudge for all those years and then all of a sudden decided to take revenge? Or was Hal giving us a glimpse of what was going on in his relationship with Kay? The anonymous letter says: “I told her this would happen if she didn't Keep her g--damned promises to me”. Was Kay “trying” to leave Hal? Was she going to break her “g—damned promises” (holy wedding vows) to Hal? The word “me” in the said phrase is immediately followed by “her F---ing family”. Could that be a metaphor for Hal (who else could be her “f…ing” family)? There are more (possible) references to Hal (and the hit man?) in the letter: fourth word is “Wenal” and it mentions ”That fat Miserable lying mother f-ing husband” (I wonder: is that what Kay said to Hal?) and “those white trash a—holes”.

In addition: the anonymous letter starts with “I bet (…)”. First words are always important. I think Hal may have been a betting man (he met Kay at a casino and had shady business dealings). The letter furthermore mentions that Kay hated “her” house. According to Kay’s sister Pam, their (rental) house was a point of contention between Kay and Hal (she wanted to move). I think this points in Hal’s direction: to anyone else this fact would have been irrelevant.



Anonymous said...

OT: Kay Wenal

Below is a transcript of the video mentioned in my previous comment (i.e.: (part of) investigators’ interview with Hal):

"I just want to say this, eh, detective Kelly that, ehm, I want nothing more on God's earth than to find the guy who did this and, more important, why it had to happen and I, I don’t, there are many nights I don’t sleep and I'd give everything I have to get Kay's killer. To bring him to justice.

On the way home I tried to reach her and when no one was answering I knew something was wrong. And, the minute I, yeah, ehm the minute I saw both vehicles I said it […?] and, and it wasn’t like I walked to the door, I was double-t..timing it to the, t…to the door wondering what the heck is wrong here.

I didn’t find, I didn’t see any blood on the, on the rugs, but it’s on the banister, the banister railings, it’s on the floor spattered all over the damn place and, and God knows in the kitchen where he had to have cut her. Did nobody find blood in that place? I mean, I mean with a shoe print or something?

I don’t know that anything’s stolen and, eh, unless wh..when, you know, you said that he must have been upstairs, that blew me over. I can’t even imagine her allowing him upstairs especially if he had hit her and he, and she was covered with blood, I, it’s driving me crazy trying to figure out what took place, eh, really, eh, detective, I, I don’t know. And there are nights I wake up crying my heart out. Middle of the night, like a child. I’ve been alone a lot in my life. I used to laugh about people who said they were lonely. I’ve never known loneliness like this. It’s a loneliness you can’t reach because you, you have that click with your, your mate
[making aggressive hand gesture]. You know? And.. It's horrible. It's really horrible. And especially if you don't know why."


Tania Cadogan said...

off topic update

Jussie Smollett has pleaded not guilty to 16 felony counts of disorderly conduct for allegedly lying to police about being attacked and will now stand trial.

The 36-year-old actor will return to court in April and will be allowed to travel between New York City and Los Angeles to meet with lawyers.

He was accompanied by some but not all of his family and said nothing as he strode quickly into the courthouse wearing a pair of sunglasses.

He was searched by security before entering the courtroom where he is expected to enter a plea on 16 counts of disorderly conduct. If convicted, he faces a maximum of 48 years behind bars.

Smollett, who insists he is innocent, is accused of paying brothers Abel and Ola Osundairo to attack him on January 29. They told police the actor wanted a raise on Empire, the Fox show in which he is one of the central characters.

On Thursday morning, trial judge Steven Gregory Watkins was assigned to the case.

After pleading not guilty on all counts, Smollett left the court with his family without making a statement.

He was heckled on his way out of the courthouse as he got into a waiting car by someone shouting: 'You f***d up! Lock him up!'

On Thursday, Tina Glandian, one of his attorneys said they 'welcomed' the case being open to the public and media.

'We welcome cameras in the courtroom so the public and the media can see the evidence and we believe is a lack of evidence against Mr. Smollett and we look forward to complete transparency and the truth coming out,' she said.

Members of Smollett's team told the media at the courthouse that his Empire co-star Terrence Howard had planned to attend the arraignment but that his flight was delayed arriving in Chicago.

They said he would likely attend later sessions.

Smollett's court appearance coincided with the revelation that his family contacted former Michelle Obama aide Tina Tchen to get in touch with State's Attorney Kimberly Foxx the day after the attack to tell her they had 'concerns' with how the police were handling it.

They were worried, they said, about the amount of information that was being leaked to the media from the start of the investigation.

Tchen persuaded her to try to pawn the case off to the FBI, according to text messages obtained by USA Today.

Foxx said she was 'trying' and had spoken to Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnston to try to 'convince' him to let the FBI take the lead on the investigation.

She also exchanged text with one of Smollett's relatives who replied: 'Omg this would be a huge victory,' when Foxx mentioned her efforts.

Ultimately, the case did not move on to the FBI because there was not enough evidence that Smollett had been the victim of a hate crime as he claimed.

Foxx recused herself from the case after Smollett was arrested, saying at the time that her contact with a family member of his was a conflict of interest in the case.

Tchen, who worked with the Obamas when they were in the White House, has not publicly commented on the case.

Smollett did not initially want to involve the police on the night of the attack.

It was his friend, 60-year-old Frank Gatson, who insisted they call 911 after he arrived back at his apartment with a rope around his neck and bleach on his clothes, claiming to have been assaulted by two men who shouted: 'This is MAGA country!' as they beat him.

It was 2am and he had gone out to get a salad from Subway.

In the weeks that followed, Chicago PD sources gradually leaked information about the case to local media about how Smollett was refusing to hand over his phone records.

Tania Cadogan said...


As they combed through surveillance footage from the night of the attack, they honed in on the Osundairo brothers and tracked their ride share and taxi movements.

They then arrested the pair on February 20 as they arrived back in Chicago from Nigeria.

In the 47th hour of their 48 hour hold, the brothers confessed to the plot.

At around the same time, Smollett went on Good Morning America to plead his innocence and condemn the growing skepticism surrounding his case.

Willow said...

OT, about Kay Wenal, Hal Wenal.
The sentence: ..."unless wh..when, you know, you said that he must have been upstairs, that blew me over."
"I can’t even imagine her allowing him upstairs..." "especially if he had hit her and he, and she was covered with blood,"
Is Hal hinting that his wife was about to retreat to cheat him upstairs with the murderer before she parted with this world?
The husband says, "her allowing him upstairs", as if the wife, beaten and blood-covered, could have been even thinking of "allowing" or not allowing. The husband seems to think the wife had some say in the situation, as in resisting, or allowing to happen anything with the murderer killing her.
The idea of the husband shows detachment from the wife as a human being, detachment of the reality of the brutal incident that he knows that took place.
The husband "imagines" the wife "allowing"/"not allowing" "him", the murderer to enter upstairs with her as the murder was ongoing.
Hal expresses this scenario in the negative, nevertheless it is in his words, important enough for him to bring it up.
On the video intimate information of the victim was exposed.
What was told about the husband was that he was a not-so-successful business-man that had some adversaries. Why did we not get to hear about his intimate relationships?
On the video Hal brings the mafia on (the murder) scene. The job was done by a professional, is said later on.
Motive for the passionate murder? An older man couldn't take a no. As Kay had a chain of marriages in her history, it may be that she was planning to leave the marriage with Hal, too. No other reason is usually needed, a person gets bored after a while. And maybe the house was not what she expected.
Why did Hal hire many private investigators to do - what?
In Hal's words the victim is the husband, not Kay, whose fate at the hands of a brutal murderer the husband does not touch.
" there are many nights I don’t sleep" - 100% true, as is:
"And there are nights I wake up crying my heart out. Middle of the night, like a child. I’ve been alone a lot in my life."

"I'd give everything I have to get Kay's killer"
... to get a killer for K. or, to get Kay killed.
It was expensive, I needed to give practically everything to get it done.

Willow said...

Oops, The video I'm referring to is Forty-eight hours,
discussion of the case:

Marty the Autonomous Robot said...

Thank you for explaining things I understand much better now l only need tie the linguistic chart to my data stream and work on the nuances with verb pronoun resolution thank you

Anonymous said...

OT: Kay Wenal

Willow, indeed: subtle victim blaming. Kay was hit by a very powerful punch in the face that resulted in blood everywhere and sent her glasses flying across the room. It was ridiculous for Hal to raise the possibility (even in the negative) that she may or could have “allowed” her attacker upstairs after that. It shows where Hal’s mind was: Kay allowing another man upstairs. Hal also says to the interviewer: “you said that he must have been upstairs, that blew me over”. Why was Hal blown over by this particular, relatively minor aspect of the crime? Kay’s throat was viciously slashed twice in their kitchen and Hal was blown over by the “mere” fact that the killer had been upstairs (note: we don’t have the entire interview so Hal may have expressed his horror over the actual killing in another part of the interview).

I think Hal fooled everyone. They say there was no evidence that Hal hired anyone. That doesn’t mean he didn’t though. The police department was having financial difficulties at the time (they couldn’t even run their cars). Maybe police didn’t (have the means to) look hard enough into this case. The 48 Hours-show also mentions that Hal seemed grief stricken by Kay’s death. But that’s hardly proof of innocence either. I think Hal took several steps to steer suspicion away from himself. He (i.m.o.) fabricated the anonymous letter, he hired a bunch of private investigators (former FBI agents) and offered a reward of EUR 250,000. Hiring investigators seems quite risky but Hal may have figured investigators wouldn’t bite the hand that fed them (they still did his bidding in the 48 Hours-show) and chances of solving the case seemed slim with virtually no forensic evidence. As to the reward money: Hal was a betting man, a “risk taker” who “made and lost millions”. He probably thought the case would never be solved and thus he would never have to pay the reward. Kay’s sister Pam says Hal was never the same after the murder. He called Pam every single day asking “Who? Why?”. He continued living in the house and never cleaned up the blood. Was he consumed by guilt and did he make himself “return to the crime scene” daily?

Kay had lots of secrets that she didn’t even share with her sister. First words of the anonymous letter are: “I bet Kay Wenal never told anyone (…)”.One secret may have been that Kay intended to leave Hal and Hal – knowing Kay kept things close to the vest – may have assumed she didn’t tell anyone. In the short interview snippet, Hal uses the words “tried to reach her” and “it’s a loneliness you can’t reach” (weird phrase). What was Hal trying to say? Maybe he couldn’t get through to Kay anymore (which was “horrible” especially “if you don’t know why”)? Also: Hal was 72 and seemed to have lost his mojo, at least business-wise. Perhaps that made Hal less attractive to Kay. Hal’s wealth is described by police sergeant John Richter as “maybe smoke and mirrors”.



Anonymous said...

OT: Kay Wenal

I agree, Willow, Hal’s words about him not sleeping at night, his repeated references to crying like a child and being lonely a lot in his life seem truthful. I think these words may also allude to a broken early family life. A similar issue may underlie the anonymous letter. One word that stands out in the letter is “mother”: “That fat Miserable lying mother f-ing husband”. The writer uses the words “f-ing” and “f-ed” several times. Why did he add “mother” in this particular phrase? He took the trouble to go through magazines/newspapers to look for the word “mother”, cut it out and paste it onto the letter. Why? Was the writer’s mother a fat, miserable, lying person in his eyes? Was his mother a “$ grubbing w----e”? Was she an actual prostitute? Was she the “F---ing family who screwed Everything up” ( “loved her”, “hated her”, etc.). Maybe the writer of the anonymous letter was neglected/abandoned by a mother who preferred money over the love of her son thus “screwing” him up. A lot of sexual references in the anonymous letter as well.

Another motive may have been money (“$ grubbing” is mentioned as soon as in the first sentence of the anonymous letter). Hal and Kay had been married for 20 years. A divorce would probably have meant a split of assets (“I’d give everything I have to (…) Kay”). Kay’s death would prevent that from happening. Hal may have been the “$” grubber, the one for whom “money was more important”. He certainly seems to have been a fraudulent money grubber in his business dealings.

Hal says he was “double-t..timing” it to the door. Why not say: “running” or “walking fast”? If Hal orchestrated the murder, quite a lot of timing must have gone on that day. By both Hal and the hit man: they were “double-timing” so to speak.

Why did Hal never inform police that he and Kay had an acquaintance who bore a striking resemblance to the man in the composite sketch? His relatives immediately saw the resemblance. Hal must have known about it too.

I feel sorry for Kay’s sister Pam. I hope she gets closure one day.


Anonymous said...


You are not welcome here. Take your computer brain somewhere else. This is a forum for humans only.

Just because you were tricky enough to get through the "puzzles" that allow you entry onto this blog does not mean we want you here.

Imagrandmoan said...

Let him stay. Marty you will always be welcome here to eat some of my freshly baked cookies if your circuits can handle it.

Willow said...

I am guest of Peter Hyatt here. I'm grateful for it, and a bit serious about it. Not in a position to ask any of my host's other guests to leave

Anonymous said...

Kamal Harris is still lengthy absence from daily news. She not run for president? Beto in news daily. Something changed.

Habundia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I have a question. I watched most of the video of the NZ shooting—I had to shut it off when the shooter comes back in with a new rifle & starts shooting the bodies in of the piles in the head after he had already sprayed the piles of bodies repeatedly with bullets & there is clearly noone alives in the piles. It was too sickening to watch, however it did make me wonder WHY he did such excessive “overkill” to those people. It made me wonder whether the attack was “personal” rather than political? I DO NOT recommend watching the video but in the video he clearly has personal hatred he is venting. I am surprised the news is not mentioning the “overkill” factor because it is VERY obvious if one has seen the video.

Andy said...

Sorry, I put the above comment on the wrong thread.

Hey Jude said...

^ I avoided the video, but I did read His strangely poetic manifesto, which might be excessive at seventy-four pages - he said originally it was hundreds of pages, but he scrapped it and wrote that version in the last couple of weeks, so maybe overkill is his thing. He had a massive blind spot concerning incoming peoples' negative impact on the indigenous population.

I listened to Tommy Robinson, on YouTube, giving a speech this evening - his observation on the New Zealand terrorist was that where the extreme left prevents people from open discussion of their legitimate concerns, it creates monsters.


Has anyone listened to Chris Watts jail interview, and to his manipulative girlfriend's interviews? I'm pretty sure he had an accomplice - not only because he said he didn't have a thought of his own.

Hey Jude said...

^ Sorry about the capital H - most unfortunate typo.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

I haven't read the manifesto but I will...that is interesting it is strangely poetic. Without having read it, I can't give a clear opinion of his motives, however "overkill" actually falls short of describing what he did to the already dead piles of people. I had to turn the video off. It went beyond brutal into a realm I can only describe as over-over- kill and I couldn't even stomach to watch. Something about his car ride also gave me an intuitive feeling that the attack was going to be "personal". What this means I don't know. The overkill was horrible. I will have to read his manifesto to try to gain some further insight.

Re: Chris Watts, I have listened to his jail interview, and I noted that he never gives a "reliable" confession. Even the FBI asks him "ARe you sure you're not covering for someone? You did do this?" (after he's been convicted and they are visiting him in jail.) He of course has guilty knowledge and I am more than willing to believe he is the killer, yet it does raise my suspicions that there was an accomplice.
I have listened to most of his mistress' interviews and she seems almost proud that he took out his family for her. Her main concern is losing her "dream job" and her brief display of emotion seems fake. I believe she may have been his accomplice. I have looked so much into this case, and I will say though that one "clue" troubles me maybe more than any others, and that is that Chris had sent his father had a copy of the picture of the the doll covered by the sheet that he had sent to Shannon as a form of emotional gaslighting shortly before the murders. The father had it on his phone and was able to show the FBI cause yep he had a copy of it. When Chris picked his father up from the airport after the murders, Chris said they "just talked about sports" (not the fact that his family was murdered?!) and Chris' Dad seemed almost bored when Chris confessed to him in the interrogation room that he had killed his wife (although honestly it does not seem like a reliable confession). The scenario is "fed" to Chris by the female interrogator, and when Chris' father again feeds the scenario to Chris "Did Shannan do something to the kids (and you had to hurt her is the implication.) When Chris intially confesses to his Dad I noticed it was not reliable as his confession consisted of the pronoun "I" combined with the hand gesture of strangling with no direct object. in other words, his confession is "I (gesture for strangling)." HOw is that reliable, nevermind the scenario was "fed" to him by first the FBI and then the father.

I have concerns that Chris's father may have had something to do with it.

Chris, I believe, as you are saying, may not be capable of much independant plotting or action , as he seems to have dependant personality disorder in my opinion (I am not convinced of the "covert narcissist" or "psychopath" labels being thrown at him.

Anonymous said...

NK is a lesbian....I had a friend who talked/acted exactly like her...when I listen to NK's interviews it is like I am listening to my old friend talking...their voices are identical. This old friend of mine looked a lot like her too. She was a lesbian I believe and was mostly single and hating and shunning men but had one or two brief (about 6-8 week) relattionship with a "pretty boy" where it was totally looks based/just sex and then she would go right back into man-hating/shunning mode and wanting to drag me to gay bars (male gay bars). Long story short I believe she was a lesbian and I have no idea what her brief 6-8 week relationship was with the pretty boy...but it reminds me a hella lot of NK and Chris Watts relationship...both using each other for deviant sex that no straight man or straight woman would crave, especially when first falling in love, where a woman typically craves love-making, not to be treated as if they are a gay bottom partner. Same with men first falling in love, they will typically want to "make love" not do deviant sex. Both NK and Chris Watts are gay. Both are repressed and closeted gays. That is one reason I don't think she was his accomplice, because i don't think she actually wanted anything longterm with Chris.

Hey Jude said...

I'm going to transcribe the jail interview, hopefully this week. There's so much in it. NK transcripts would be good, too - her tone and casual attitude ( except when she tries to persuade them not to contact Jim) is so suspicious given the horrific circumstances. CW hasn't convinced me that he killed his children himself.

Hey Jude said...

Yes, he uses three poems:

‘Do not gentle into that good night’
- Dylan Thomas

-Altered version of “The Beginnings”
by Rudyard Kipling

Invictis by William Ernest Henley

His use of language is somewhat quaint. You don't expect a mass murderer to have an appreciation of poetry.

Hey Jude said...

Anon. - Michele Carter didn't much want anything to do with Conrad Roy, yet she persuaded him to kill himself.

Michael said...

Hey Jude, that would be awesome if you transcribe the jail interview, even if you only get around to transcribing the sections around any "confession". Also the section where they ask him about Trent Bolte...I listened to the FbI interview with TRent Bolte and detected veracity, but Chris denies involvement with Trent. I find Chris; denials very unreliable. That is interesting that you say that Chris does not have you convinced that he killed his family himself. I too am having trouble believing his confession due to the linguistic oddities in his confessing.

That is very interesting about the NZ shooters use of poetry in his manifesto and that you say that his use of language is quaint. That may mean he is "sensitive" which makes the brutality and overkill of the slaying far more difficult to understand. I have a feeling something very horrible happened to him at one point in his life (most likely during childhood--did he lose a parent through violence?) and I don't know what it is but he clearly has a personal violent hatred towards Muslims. Such a tragic event.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

Good point regarding your 1:25 comment!

Hey Jude said...

His life - she may have wanted that. She wasn't aware of his financial problems before the murders.

' Armchair Detective' on YouTube uploaded a documentary last evening which iyou might find worth watching - he was the one who picked up on the shadows, and that the children were still alive when they were put into the truck - which is very likely a video someone in the FBI or CBI saw, and why they went back to interview CW again. It's not SA, but it's very good - he has such an eye and mind for detail.

Hey Jude said...

The language is not uniformly quaint, he's vulgar, too - strange mixture. If the media, and idiotic people on social media, had bothered to read it before claiming that Ben Shapiro, and other conservative commentators, and Chelsea Clinton, were his inspiration, they would see that Angela Merkel and Anders Breivik, alongside others, were his influences.

Hey Jude said...

He, the shooter, describes himself as 'ordinary'. and overdoes how 'regular' he and his childhood were - he says there were 'no issues'.
The manifesto is arranged as a series of questions, which he imagines the reader wants to ask, and his responses. That's all from me on that - it may not be something to discuss here.

Unknown said...

here are two links with some background on the NZ shooter that you will not see in the lame stream media.

Anonymous said...

Put judge jeanine show back on.

LC said...

I am not convinced that Chris Watts has remorse. It seems more like regret that he was caught & he will rue the day he chose to kill his family.
Also, have to consider his reason for confessing in a plea deal to take the death penalty off the table - when DP has not been carried out in Colorado for 25 years. It is possible he didn't want to expose Himself to testimony-although it is more altruistic to claim he wanted to spare his wife's family the grief.

michael said...

LC--he took the plea deal to protect Nicole, his lover, from her involvement coming to light.

I watched Armchair Detective's video and she was in the passenger seat of the truck when Chris was loading his wife's body into it.

Hey Jude said...

I have posted the first twelve minutes or so of the prison interview iof Chris Watts - it will grow much longer. Free for anyone to use in their own analysis or investigations, etc. Large font because I need to find my reading glasses. :)

Michael said...

Hey Jude, Awesome! Thank you!!!!!!

Michael said...

Great job Jude!!! Started reading it....what do you make of WHY the FBI was there based on the beginning of it? Do you get the sense they feel he had an accomplice?

Hey Jude said...

Yes, but I am just transcribing atm, not analysing. I just uploaded some more. About 24 minutes in now. Will take weeks, if not months - the audio is poor, so it's slow work, and that's all for today. I've just found a better quality video, so that is pleasing.

Anonymous said...

Judge Jeanine suspended by FOX. Donna hired by FOX. Bye-bye viewers. "You can be darn sure that I’m still going to be me on Fox News.” (DB)


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Michael, I'm sure armchair detective has evidence that the investigators couldn't find, right?

Michael said...

Anon, yes he figured out the girls were still alive when they went in the truck by noticing a shadow & then Chris Watts bendimg down to lift one of the girls up into the truck.
He also noticed how the light on the interior passenger side keeps going on & off even though Chris is nowhere near the truck.

Michael said...

Armchair detective reminds of myself. I have “the gift” like he does.
I remember receiving a letter when I was a teen signed only with initials telling me I have the gift/curse, that I notice things other people don’t & that it is a kind of intelligence & that sometimes it gets stronger as you get older & that he could see how much promise I had the times he met me when I was very young” It said “I wish I could have helped you deal with. Believe me I understand how lonely it can get.”
I wish I had known then who sent it.
I was befuddled, thought it was a bizarre prank, crumpled it up & threw it away. I wish I hadn’t.

Michael said...

He had it much much stronger than me—the gift. But I knew about him what noone else did just by looking at him, and told much as it freaked him out...I guess he worried about me...he was worried what the gift would do to me. But his gift was much stronger—he could “scan” someone for danger by grasping their arm & let them read what was going on in his mind also. I cannot do that. After that diring that meeting we were able to communicate effortlessly through telepathy. I still don’t understand.

Michael said...

He knew me better than I knew myself.

The gift that he had was astonishing but it was also a terrible curse.

Michael said...

Why didn’t he just tell them he had that gift? That he could put himself inside other people’s minds and see what they were seeing and feeling, even if he hadnt met them like from hearimg about their crimes? Wouldn’t they have believed him? Why didn’t he try to explain to his captors? Why didn’t he fight harder to prove himself innocent by explaining his astonishing gift? He was like the guy in the Green Mile. That guy never tried to explain his gift either and just let himself be condemned. Why didnt he tell him? Did he just think they wouldnt believe him?

Anonymous said...

you have a gift is just not what you think it is.

Michael said...

Everything I am saying is true. The letter signed with just initials & there was also a phone call from him—I talked to him for half an hour when I was 9–I can’t go into details, but at one point, he asked me if I liked to read. I said “I REALLY like to read”, because I read all the time. He asked me what books I liked. I told him. He said “Do you have any books?” I said “Not really. I can only get them from the library”. And he said “Would you like it if I sent you some books?” I said “Yes! That would be really good!” And sure enough, that month, he sent me a box set of Little House on the Prairie books! I had always dreamed of having a box set, particularly of The Little on the Prairie books. It was the most wonderful gift I had ever gotten but noone knew who it came had been sent anonymously.

I remember his final advice to me: “Stay on the right path.” That os how he closed his letter. I could sense the weariness in his spirit when I read it. I believe he wrote that letter to me shortly before he died.

Michael said...

He wrote other things in the letter like “I know you were having some problems and you are doing better now.” You notice things other people don’t. It’s a kind of intelligence. I know it can get lonely when you have noone to talk to about it. Believe me, I know how lonely it can get. I wish I could have been there to help you deal with it.”
It’s because when I was 4, I took one look at him & knew he was the loneliest person in the world and trying to disguise himself & that he didn’t want anyone to know who he was. That’s why I said “Are you wearing a fake beard?” “Do you ever wear fake beards?” Can I pull on your beard?” “Were you in jail?”

I knew. And he knew I knew.

Then he grasped me, very upset and said “Shhhhhhhhh!!!!” and scanned me for danger & let me see what was in his mind, what he had just done, the escape, the running, the running, the fear of being caught.”

All these things I say are true, although they will never be believed. How strange & lonely to have lived the things I have.

Michael said...

It is a heavy burden to be the only one who knows the truth. I am the only one in the world who knows the truth & he is the only who knows the truth about me, but he is gone.

Michael said...

It should say “I am the only one in the world who knows the truth about him.

It is not not knowing the truth that is the hardest thing. It is knowing it.

Peter Hyatt said...

Michael said...

Hey Jude: WE need to tell Armchair Detective something that occurred to me as I was watching the footage of Chris loading the truck and the image that appears to be female bc of her tapered jeans and much different feminine gait than Chris.

My first instinct when I first watched it was that the "female" seen in the video walking (that they are I believe incorrectly thinking is Nicole Kissinger) is aactuallya transvestite--it is actually a man pretending to walk like a woman, also appears to be wearing heals by the tip toe kind of gait although it is a quick qait, stride is much too wide to be a woman, even the outfit, length of legs reminds me of something "kaityln" would wear like a man trying to be a appears to be a transvestite or transsexual (male to female trans). Please watch the footage so you can see what I mean.

Kitt said...

A missing 8 mo. old....


Anonymous said...

Could the transvestite be Nicole's friend "Jim"?

Anonymous said...

Could michael be any more full of himself?

John Mc Gowan said...

OT Update:

Judge grants extension for serving father of Ayla Reynolds in wrongful-death suit
Though the deadline for serving Justin DiPietro expired Sunday, a Cumberland County Superior Court justice this week gave the attorney for her mother a 60-day extension so he can file notice via the newspaper.

Michael said...

From Chris’ linguistics where he says the 2 girls were taking turns sleeping in each other’s laps in the back seat of the truck on the way to the oil batteries, there definitely had to be an adult in the back seat who they were taking turns trying to sleep with their head on the adults lap. THE ADULT HAD TO BE SOMEONE KNOWN TO THEM. Who was it???? I DO NOT believe it was Nicole Kessinger.

Michael said...

Who was it? It has to be there in Chris’s linguistics.

Michael said...

I don’t detect deception in Nicole’s interview. Yet I do think his accomplice was female. Was it Chris’ mother? Someone else?

Michael said...

Chris told the FBI that the song “Battery” is about “a family working together as a battery”. He listened to the song after the murders.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I read that you would be working on a transcript for weeks or maybe even months. I don't follow the case but figured with such a high-profile case there may be others making a transcript so I googled "transcript Chris Watt interview". I found the following unfinished transcript (4 parts for the moment) of, I believe, the same interview you are transcribing:
I don't know if it's any good. For completeness sake I mention that the transcriber asks "If you are a website or a blog who would like to use this transcription, please link directly to this page." Maybe it saves you some time. You could always use it to check your own transcript.

I also found this:
This doesn't appear to be an exact transcript (more paraphrased).


Hey Jude said...

Autumn, I have just uploaded part 3 of my transcript - I am up to 1hr ten minutes so far. I do my own transcribing.

Anonymous said...

Wow Hey Jude, other posters would have at least thanked a helpful Autumn, even if they didn't use her links.

Michael said...

Hey Jude, I am checking out your transcript! Thank you for all your hard work!

Michael said...


From your transcript: CW: “I wish I hadn’t had THAT BLINDER on my FACE so I could have SEEN WHAT HAPPENED.”

Is there any possibilty Nikki could have blindfolded Chris (perhaps not uncommon from their sex games) and she & perhaps another individual killed Shann’ann & Chris did not see what happened?

Michael said...

Why did Chris say that after he asked Shannan if she would cancel the weekend trip he and she were supposed to go on, he asked her “Can we move to Brighton to get away from this house” (?!?!)

What was happening or happened in that house (obviously before the night Shannann was killed) that Chris wanted to get away from?

He also speaks of that when he was at Nikki’s for the month Shannan was away that “there were no reminders...he almost forgot”...
Forgot what? What happened in that house that he wanted to get away from?

Michael said...

Something is so weird...Im not seeing linguistics that convince me that he actually was Shann’ann’s killer.

Hey Jude said...

Anon, yes, I can be a bit short, at times. Sorry about that. :).


I think one of the interviewers, probably the Quiet one, was making notes, and that might be the paraphrased type document that was released around the same time as the video. I'm not sure of the source, but YouTubers have been using that for a while, and calling it a transcript - it seems more like a commentary with quotes, from what they have read out.


It's a very interesting video, for sure - Chris is hiding a lot.

Hey Jude said...

OT - Chris Watts

Here's a link to FBI interrogation of Trent, who claims he had a relationship with CW:

I haven't listened to it yet - is he telling the truth, or an attention seeker?

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

I watched the Trent Bolte interview about a week ago, and yes, he is telling the truth about everything he says.

Did you watch it?

Michael said...

Didn't Trent say at one point in the interview that Chris at one point introduced him to his girls (Bella and Celeste) and that Trent was in the car with them?

Sarah said...

It has come into my head before that linguistically the way Chris describes straddling Shannan, and he tells the FBI that Shann'ann wasn't freaked out because she "thought they were going to have sex again" that as a woman I have never had a guy straddle me and sit on my stomach as a prelude to sex.
It sounds more to me like he is describing homosexual sex, especially when he says that "I don't remember moving towards my knees or my hands being around her shoulders...I wonder what she thought when she was LOOKING BACK at me" (to describe what he is claiming is straddling Shannann, sitting on her stomach and strangling her).

Why is the position he is describing not coinciding with the action he is alleging he was doing? Why does it coincide, rather, with a homosexual sexual position?

Sarah said...

Towards the end of the Trent video, where he walks in and out of the room, his gait and tapered pants look like the 2nd person seen in the neighbor's truck footage that Armchair is saying is female. Watch the Trent video at 1:26:00 and you will see what I mean. Compare it to Armchair Detective's footage of the 2nd person walking where he is talking about the gait, etc and that he thinks the second person is female.

Michael said...

The whole thing where Chris is going on in the interview Hey Jude described about how he didn't know who he was anymore blah blah and that made him snap....I do not believe the affair with NK caused him to have an identity crisis that made him snap and made him want to get away from all "reminders" (of his heterosexual life is what I think). An affair does not cause an identity crisis. It could be confusing or feel "weird" at is not going to cause someone to snap because "they don't know who they are and "feel like a bomb ready to go off".

I don't buy it. I don't buy that NK is the root of the whole thing. The root of the whole thing is Chris's respressed homosexuality.

John Mc Gowan said...


Raw Audio: 911 Call Audio

Tucson Police release audio of 911 calls made the day Isabel Celis went missing.

Duration: 13:06

Hey Jude said...

Michael - I haven't watched it yet, I'm going to watch it now, while I take a break from transcriiing so my headphones can recharge. I saw another interview with Trent by a gay YouTuber, which, with what Chris, and the FBI person said about him in the prison interview,, convinces me Trent is truthful. It was only audio, so will be interesting to see what he is like in person.

He said he had met the girls, yes.

Michael said: 'The root of the whole thing is Chris's respressed homosexuality.'

^ And he's still upset that he never got to go camping or hunting when he was a boy. Probably didn't go fishing either, you could almost feel sorry for him. I do, in a way.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

This may be very important: I tried last night to find in the video where he talks about meeting the girls and couldn't, but from going on what I remember him saying when the FBI asks him about meeting the girls,

I believe what he said was just "he had them in the truck".

Chris was not allowed by his company to drive the work truck anywhere besides to and from work. He seems to have followed that rule. I listened to the police interview with the babysitter who watched Bella and Celeste the night that Chris did the murders, and she mentions how Bella and Celeste said to her "there's Daddy's truck because it was parked outside (he had left it at the house & taken the car to go meet Nicole. Chris also told the FBI that there were no car seats in his truck & that both the girls still used car seats.

Trent's answer about meeting the girls, which contains a lack of any contextual info, he simply says "He had them in the truck." is extremely concerning to me. When I first listened to Trent's interview I noted to myself the lack of any contextual info like "He stopped by at my house and the girl's were in the truck." Trent simply says "He had them in the truck".

What does that mean??? Was Trent in the truck the night they were killed?

Hey Jude said...

From 25 minutes in this video, Trent speaks about the time he met the girls. He pauses on where he met them, then says "they were in his truck" and they had met in a busy outlet area near where Trent lived. He hadn't known Chris was going to bring and introduce the girls to him. He says he thinks CeCe was only two at the time.

Why the hesitation before saying 'truck'? May it have been because he was aware that it was against company policy for the girls to be in Chris's truck? Were they in car seats, how were they secured, etc - did the meeting contradict that Chris had good paternal instincts?

Why did he say "even take the kids out of the equation, and he just seemed like the type who would have those natural paternal instincts"? He had described Chris, as a father, as "very, very calm demeanour, um very loving, from the one time I saw him with them." Does he mean that, even before he had seen how he interacted with his kids, he had got the impression that Chris was a calm, loving father?


Trent said, not verbatim, that he went to the police department before they went to him, as quite a few people knew about his relationship with Chris, and it was inevitable he would become part of the investigation. He said he's a nurse, and he would lose his job if his private life was made public- yet within a short space of time the FBI interview is all over YouTube. How does that work? I wonder why, and if it is even essential to the public interest for his identity to have been quite so confirmed - I wonder why it could not be just his first name, and just the audio, or a pixelated face on the YouTube? It's great for us, but you do have to wonder at what impact it might have on some of the people whose interviews are released. Like, it wouldn't take that much effort to bleep out any personal identifying information, and pixelate a face.

Hey Jude said...

^. If some details of his private life were made public, then; from his Instagram, he's obviously not bothered by anyone seeing his more flamboyant side.

Michael said...

Hey Jude, Thank you. I just listened to that part. I believe he only told the FBI that when he met the girls that “Chris had them in the truck”. In the interview of the link you just posted, There is sensitivity around the word “truck”. He also says “Im sorry it’s hard for me to say those names”(Bella & Celeste). That can be an indicator of guilt. He also does not state WHEREthey met. He says he lives off the interstate near a VERY BUSY outlet mall & that they met “there” in that “area”. He is not telling us where they met or WHY. He does not tell us what they did AT ALL.
Later on he says “I was just a bystander. Im not guilty of anything.” A bystander to what? The killing of Bella and Celeste?
I think he was in that truck that night (whether Chris met him somewhere and picked him up or maybe Trent even met him at the dump site thinking it was a rendezvous & ended up consoling Chris & the girls only to meekly be a bystander as Chris killed them). I believe Trent did not physically harm the girls but that he was in that truck when it happened & meekly stood by, perhaps even comforting the girls before Chris killed them.

Mochael said...

Maybe Chris originally planned on killing him too? Maybe that’s why he didnt bury the sheet?

Michael said...

Trent said that Chris had tried to strangle him diring sex & that he, on a different occassion, was really rough with him during sex & kept pishing Trent’s face against the seat in the truck during sex, so maybe he was planning on killing Trent that night also?

Hey Jude said...

Well, I'm not going there... I'm still working on my transcript - uploaded p4 last night, it's up to 1hr 38min.

It seems the relationship between Trent and Chris was in the past.

When did they last meet, from their text/phone messages - is that information available?

Are you sure Trent is not just an embarrassing red herring for Chris in this sorry tale?

The FBI interview is online. Are you sure you heard "he had them in the truck."
Why would someone edit that bit out - and after it had been uploaded? Maybe you are mistaken.

What if he'd said, of green beans - "He had them in the fridge." That wouldn't be suspicious, well - unless he was on the carnivore diet.

Hey Jude said...


There was a distinct lack of shock and devastation in Nichol, which might be unexpected - you'd think, as she was in a relationship with a man whose wife and daughters were so horribly killed and disposed of - and having even spent the previous evening with him - that there would be something in the way of devastation. Maybe sorrow for the victims, whose pictures and videos she must have seen - a bit of self-flagellation, at least some soul-searching, as to whether she might have been the catalyst. Something, besides just deleting him from her phone and her life. As, according to her, and to Chris, she believed he was getting a divorce, it's interesting that, in her several interviews, she doesn't express regret about the (lost) expectation of a future relationship with the girls, for herself - of an expectation that Chris would have got joint custody, and the children would, probably, have become at least a part of her life, too. It is notable how casual and breezy her manner is in the interviews - too casual, given the crimes. They were such beautiful girls - yet she has so little to say about them.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

Yes I agree that Nicole's reactions seem callous and unexpected. Here's the thing though...I don't think Nicole was as serious about him as most people seem to think. I also think she seems like someone who isn't really into having deep relationships or even normal relationsihps as she told the FBI that she would usually never let someone she was dating come over her apt more than 1 or 2 days a week. I think she is very emotionally immature and also relationship-phobic. Yes I think the 2 had frequent sex according to Chris it was Nicole who wanted to do it 4-5 times a day and i can believe that because I think there was no relationship substance there as she didn't really want any. I don't think she asked him to take out his family or assisted him in doing so. I think she is just bitchy and immature,

With Trent, I know I heard him say that about "he had them in the truck" with very little detail regarding it in FBI interview of which I think there are some versions that have some of it spliced out. Trent told the FBI that Bella called Chris on time when they were together and said "I want to sleep with you and Mommy tonight."
Trent says that he met Chris in the summer of 2017 and was seeing him until April 2018 and that he didn't find out that Chris was married until Feb 2018. He doesn't explain why the relationship ended or if it really did end.

I do think that the truck is sensitive to Trent, the meeting place where he first met Bella and Celeste is sensitive to him, the names Bella and Celeste are sensitive to him----Why doesn't Trent say why he was meeting Chris at the "area"? Why doesn't he say what they all did? I don't think they did anything. Why would Chris have told Trent to meet him in an "area" and then have pulled up in his truck with no car seats with the girls when he's not allowed to drive the truck except for work and just show up to say "Hey Trent, these are my girls, aren't they cute? Bye!"

Dont' you think that if the story was true, Trent would just say what the hell they did when they met in the "area"? Did they walk around the shopping plaza? Sure doesn't sound like it.

I think Trent got sucked into things the night/morning of the killings. Maybe Chris needed someone to "babysit" Bella and Celeste in the truck while he dug Shannanna's grave and picked Trent up somewhere giving him some story about he doesn't know what to do, he finally couldn't take feeling trapped and killed Shannannn in a rage. Trent would have been meek and sympathetic to Chris. I do not think Trent harmed the girls or even knew they were going to be harmed. I believe Trent got sucked into being the girls' babysitter in the back seat while Chris dug Shann'ann's grave. Maybe he even tried to save Bella and Celeste or at least was yelling for Chris to stop. Maybe Trent tried to push Chris off Bella when he was smothering her with her head against the back seat...maybe that's how she was able to move her head side to side, tearing her lip/gum.
Trent is probably traumatized and he probably did try to comfort the girls, but Chris is way stronger than Trent and Trent was probably terrified.

Hey Jude said...

Wasn't Nichol googling 'wedding dresses' and searching for a new place for Chris to live?

That sounds like commitment/expectation, to me.

Hey Jude said...

Do you think Trent would have gotten into that foul smelling truck, sat in the back with a dead body as a foot rest, and NOT thought to call 911 at any point?


It is Chris who asks himself why he couldn't have saved his girls lives, which is curious.

He didn't seem to know what was going on. He claims he strangled the girls, yet the autopsy reports concluded that they were smothered. That's a major discrepancy. It was a long drive, and the girls were in the back of the truck.

Hey Jude said...

There's the wrong pronoun about the family man, though - and that's a "he".

Hey Jude said...

It may not be a wrong pronoun, as such, but I think it doesn't sit quite right, and that "a family man doesn't do that". might be more what anyone might say. I don't know, though. I wonder does anyone have any thoughts on that?

it's like they are offering him a lead there, inviting him to give an 'understandable' reason as to why he did it - that, as others have done, he was going to take out his family, and also himself. He doesn't take up the lead, whilst also claiming that the he had intended to kill himself, too. It's strange. Maybe he's wary of taking up the suggestion, because that's how he sort of admitted to what he had done the last time they interviewed him.

Why though? - why not agree, and join the ranks of 'family' men who kill their whole family, and themselves - why not take that up as a reason? At the same time, he's also saying that was his intention, and he prides himself on what a good father he was, and how he did things he didn't want to do, in order to support Shan'ann and the family. As Davey Blackburn would say, it's a conundrum.

Hey Jude said...

Maybe he just baulked at it because it was such a preposterous claim. That's not what a family man does. That would make sense. Yet it was no less preposterous of him to expect anyone to believe that Shan'ann killed the girls, and he decided to throw their bodies into oil tanks rather than call 911. . He does preposterous - so why does he resist the 'family man' suggestion?

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

Im not sure who said the family man quote? Was it Chris? What exactly did he say? You didn't provide the quote in your posts.

Regarding Nicole and wedding dresses, I think it's meaningless. It's her living in relationship-phobic fantasy land...browsing through wedding dresses online...that is a far cry from planning a weddding, booking a wedding, walking down the aisle. I can tell Nicole was not even in love with him. In my opinion.

Chris has 12,000 porno pics/videos in his secret calculator app from people he was seeing or communicating with. Many many more than came from Nicole. Chris had a year long affair with a gay man. I believe Chris is gay.

And yes I do think Trent would have gotten into the foul-smelling truck, etc. If anyone would have, it's him. He is extremely co-dependant, he meekly said "ow" when Chris was being violent towards him during sex and laid there as Chris continued violently sodomizing him. He meekly protested against Chris strangling him and also kept seeing Chris long after he tried to strangle him. Trent was victimized by a trafficking ring. Trent is someone who is a traumatized person with very poor boundaries and extremely lacking skills in assertiveness and has been conditioned to accept very toxic situations and violence against him. I don't necessarily think he would have called 011 because he may have been terrified and also fearful that he would be blamed for something and may have been petrified that if he called them that Chris would kill him.

I do think that there is sensitivity surrounding whether Chris killed the girls as you are saying. I have wondered is Chris's father may have been an accomplice, and i also think Chris's mother hated Shannann and the girls. But I think a male must have killed them.

I think that the girls were taking turns putting their heads in the lap of an adult in the backseat, someone who they must have known...I feel like it is a feminine presence there with them in the backseat and I do not think it was Nicole. It was someone who was able to be a calming presence. Trent is so meek and feminine and gentle that I doubt they would have been scared of him. If not him, it is some female in the backseat with them who maybe didn't realize was Chris was going to do to them and just thought they were in the backseat to help calm the girls.

What did Chris get out of the car in his garage when the cops came to his house? I feel like that is a clue as to who was with Chris that night. Also what happened to the toys and favorite blanket Chris said he used to smother the girls? Perhaps taken home by the female or feminine male comforting the girls?

Hey Jude said...

I should have included the quote, but here it is:.

(M is the male interviewer - it's part of the prison interview,)

M: Yeah, See, it’s interesting to me - we had all kind of wondered if there was a point when you were all together, and if you were all going to pass together. Because that, to me, makes sense – because that’s, even though it sounds crazy, um, that’s what a family man does, right?

CW: A family man doesn’t do what he did.

M: No, I know. I guess what I mean is, um, it seems like you guys were gonna be together for ever in that way - is that maybe what was going through your head?

CW: I, honestly, I just felt like I didn’t – I didn’t deserve to live – and it was like whatever judgement I was gonna, come upon myself, y’know - I just didn’t deserve to be on this earth anymore -

M: Uhhum.


Chris's dad adored them - he Facetimed with his grand-daughters every day, plus he lives in North Carolina.

It was the middle of the night, with the motion of the vehicle the girls being so young would probably have fallen to sleep. They could have been smothered by whoever was in the back seat during the long journey. Chris asked why he couldn't have saved his girls' lives. Isn't that strange? I have doubts as to whether he would say that if he, himself, had killed them. Is that an 'expected' type self-question from a father who murders his children? If you save someone's life, you rescue them. He didn't rescue his children. He said they were alive when they were got into the truck. He drove the truck to the oil-field. His account of strangling them when they got there doesn't accord with the autopsy report that they were smothered. Were they possibly already dead, or were they maybe smothered while he left the truck to bury Shan'ann? Though he doesn't actually say that he did that either.

In the middle of all that, he somehow thought to pack his lunch for work that morning. You have to wonder, was that between murdering his wife and loading her body, and the children, their toys, blankets, and the jerry can, into the truck?

He was super efficient, has to be said.

Hey Jude said...

I think, as he 'swings both ways', he would be described as bi-sexual, rather than gay.

Yes, I got that Trent is vulnerable, and I knew from the interview that he was sex-trafficked as a child. What you say about him is very interesting. I'll listen to his interview again, bearing all that, and your theory, in mind. It's interesting to have a different perspective, but I still think Nichol had motive, and wonder why she was so cagey about Jim, and not wanting him to be contacted by the investigators. She was so insistent, yet it's a murder investigation.

Statement Analysis Blog said...

If Hey Jude or another finishes the transcripts, I can post with analysis.

The transcripts must not include commentary.


Michael said...

Hey Jude, Oh I remember when Chris said the "family man" comment and it did jump out at me that he says "he". When I heard that I wondered if he could be referring to his own father? Was Chris's father there? He has been on my radar due to many things he said and how he acted.

I agree that Nicole had motive, but Trent's interview has me more concerned he may have been in the truck when the girls died--I am going on the linguistics--I don't get any sense using SA that Nicole was present during the killings even though, yes she did have motive.

Peter and Jude, it would be very interesting and great if Peter could analyze the Trent interview. I have actually seen a few comments under a video with either all or a portion of Trent's interview saying they wonder what Peter Hyatt over at Statement Analysis would think of the interview.
Is that interview transcribed anywhere, Jude? Or maybe Peter could look at the portions of the FBI interview with Chris in jail regarding what happened that night?
I would be very interested in his take on the Trent interview/and or sections of the Chris interview since it is so long.

Thank you Peter for offering to do analysis.

Hey Jude said...

I don't know if a transcript exists of Trent's interview.

I am working on the CW prison interview, which will probably take a few days more - I've just uploaded some more of that here, for anyone's interest. - they are clean transcripts, no commentary. I'll send Peter a file with the finished transcript when it is done, probably next week :

^ The site is for my own transcripts, and is free for use by investigators and analysts.

Michael said...

Hey Jude, Sorry Im just seeing this. I was at band practice & blew out my vocal cords singing Lady Gaga. Lol need honey & tea. Thank you so much for transcribing & I am very interested in reading Peter’s analysis. There are so many lose ends with this case! Have a great night!

Michael said...

Hey Jude, I am now realizing I have been more than willing to throw anybody and everybody under the bus to cover my own homophobic disgust. I think I also have let my own daddy issues cloud my judgement. I am sure the investigators missed seeing the shadowy figure that armchair detective caught while viewing the neighbor's surveillance. We are both smarter than law enforcement. I can't wait for you to finish the transcript, but I enjoy your commentary best. Thank you for indulging my somewhat warped perspective.

Michael said...

I didn't right the comment under my name at 12:51, but I will say to the person that did write it: I am a highly intelligent person who has been studying SA for many years, and I feel I am quite good at it. Perhaps you yourself have homophobic issues or Daddy or Mommy issues...stop projecting. Your immature rants are tiresome and unproductive.

I have confidence in my perspective, and yes, in dozens of cases I have looked at I have been smarter than law enforcement/FBI. I understand how to look at cases, I have a very good gut instinct for feeling out what is really going on. I'm sure Hey Jude is as well. We are however merely trying to assist law enforcement, using the skills that we have worked hard to attain, the craft we are on our way to excelling at.

Think what you want, your opinion is irrelevant to me as I have high confidence in both Jude and myself, and you are nothing more than a bitter troll.

Hey Jude said...

^ Oh, dear.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

I just remembered something Trent said in the interview some youtube guy did with him (not the FBI interview),

Trent said that when he met Bella and Celeste (who were in Chris' truck) in "that area" that Bella "was scared and kept covering her eyes and saying she wanted to go home" and that the younger one was "Talking up a storm".

Trent also says that if he ever sees Chris again he would give him a hug and ask him what kind of demons came over him to cause him to do what he did.

I also noticed in the FBI interview that Trent's statement about how he got Chris to stop strangling him during sex was to do a gentle karate chop to Chris's arm (which is not how someone would reflexively respond to being strangled...they would rather grab onto the hands or arms and try to pry the hands off of their neck. However if someone saw someone strangling or smothering another person, that might be how they would try to get the attacker to let go of his victim, especially if they are in the back seat of a truck with the victim.

If Chris was really strangling Trent during sex, do you really think that Trent's gentle karatae chop (that he demonstrataes the gesture he did and it wouldn't hurt a fly) would have gotten Chris to stop? Do you really think that Trent would keep seeing Chris when he is claiming that Chris strangled him the first time they met? I do think that Chris tried to strangle Trent but I doubt it happened the first time they met, rather could it have happened the night of the killings if Trent was in the backseat comforting the girls?

Hey Jude said...

Well, I'm transcribing, and I haven't even seen the other video you are talking about - I'm not speculating, much less trying to analyse, anything about anyone's sex life without even having a transcript.

The girls might have been dead when they 'got into the truck'. Not sure three and four year olds can get into a truck, they'd need to be put in, whether they were dead or alive at that point. If the girls did get into the truck, there would need to be an additional (adult) 'gir'l who was getting them in? - in that way the girls could get into the truck.

I don't know, except there is no point racing ahead with the idea of Trent babysitting in the truck - if they weren't t alive, a babysitter would be somewhat redundant.


That's all I'm saying, and I don't know - I uploaded some more transcript a few hours ago - at the address in my earlier comment.

Michael said...

Jude, the FBI believes Chris that the girls were alive in the truck.
The neighbor’s video shows a small moving shadow & then shows Chris picking up a small child and putting the child in the truck. If his girls were already dead, them it would have been the child of whoever the female was in the front seat.

Hey Jude said...

I'm not saying they weren't. IDK. Maybe the shadow belonged to the dog, maybe he put the dog in the truck

It's all mind bending - it can only be an assumption that he picked up a child rather than a dog - - the shadow is not SA, anyway.

mel said...

Investigators did not find any statements made by Trent to be credible. They concluded Trent was seeking publicity after the fact.

Michael said...

Jude I thought about that that it might have been the dog. Armchair Detective is convinced it was one of the girls.

The FBI seems to think that the injuries on Bella are consistent with being smothered while Chris was presseing the back of her head against the backseat of his truck.

Although, Chris did wash the girls sheets at home (he told this to Nicole) because he said they were "stinky", which I really don't understand.

Mel, if the FBI is convinced that Trent was only seeking publicity, why did they ask Chris about Trent and if what Trent is saying is true just a few weeks ago in the prison interview with Chris. The FBI is not convinced that Trent is lying.

SA tells us that Trent is telling the truth. I found all of his statements to be credible with a few instances he may have been omitting info for example, when he talks about meeting the girls.

But that's why Peter needs to look at the interview. The FBI cannot figure out if he is telling the truth or lying. It's a conundrum. We need Peter to help with this.

Michael said...

I think Peter may be the only one who can bring clarity regarding the Trent interview. I think Peter would find it interesting and I think Peter would do a very good analysis that would shed light on the different questions we have about the stuff Trent is saying.

Hey Jude said...

From the interview, the FBI does believe Trent - they hadn't initially, but once they had won his confidence, he was more forthcoming about how he met Chris. Then they either put,or allowed for him to be put on YouTube, so I don't know what to think about that. I am going with it having to be tactical - the same as releasing the CW prison interview sooner rather than later - because they are not the FBI for nothing.

Michael said...

Yeah Mel, Hey Jude is right. FBI does believe Trent. Me and Hey Jude knew Trent was telling the truth because we have the best teacher in the whole world, Peter!

Michael said...

I;m listening to the Trent interview with the guy on youtube (first time hearing it) and noting certain potentially important things:

Trent does freelance drag makeup.

See my above post about my theory that the 2nd person getting into the truck at Chris's house may have been a transvestite.

Trent lived "less than 10 miles" away from Chris.

I am wandering if Trent got sucked into the whole thing not as a perpetrator, but as a meek "bystander" who may have comforted the girls (because I believe he would have comforted them),

Hey Jude said...

Yeah, but you believe Ted Bundy is your dad, too - so. you have to have a transcript.

Michael said...


"They were...cough cough cough...sorry it's so hard for me to say their his truck."

We met "there"

I got in THE truck"

Why does he switch from "HIS truck" to "THE truck" once he is "getting into the truck"?

Bella kept covering her eyes, was very shy

Celeste "was talking up a storm...I couldn't make anything out it".

Was Trent confused about what was going on when he is picked up by Chris in the truck and gets into the truck and is trying to figure out what Celeste is trying to say so he can figure out what exactly was going on???

Trent does not say where they went once he got into the truck, how long he was in the truck, or why Chris would tell Trent to meet him in "that area" and show up without telling him he was bringing the girls and then why Trent got into the truck.

I believe what Trent is saying is extremely concerning.

Michael said...

At Hey Jude, I was just kidding about TB. That's funny that you thought I was serious. I was working on a novel and trying to develop characters/plot for the book.

Michael said...

I think it would have made a good book, still do, but everything I said was made up.

Michael said...

TB, of course, is who they say he was, but I was experienting in my mind with a certain plot for a book and got that initial inspiration of a little girl noticing him and just knowing he is completely alone and basically calling him out on the fact that he was trying to hide/disguise who he was. From there, the Green Mile type thing of him having a gift similar to the guy in the Green Mile where he grasps the girl's arm to scan her for danger and to warn her to be quiet about what she is saying his beard is it a disguise, etc....I just thought it was an interesting way to look at things. What if right? What if a little girl had had the intuitive abilities to see through him and knew he was an escapee when the FBI etc couldn't find him? And what if he did have powers and ended up saving the little girls' life? From there my imagination formed an entire book. It seemed real at the time..that is how I get when I immerse myself in's like I'm "in the story I am with the characters". But yes, just my imagination running wild. No reality in the tale.

Hey Jude said...

Well, he already said it was his truck so I don't think he needs to keep repeating that it was his. If there had been two trucks, he might say 'his truck' again, to distinguish between the two, and which one he got into?

No, that would not have made a good book.

Michael said...

You're right it wouldn't have made a good book. Although, if told in full the way I pictured the book to go, it might have ended up being the strangest story anyone has ever heard. I know in my mind the way I pictured it, it was without doubt the strangest story I'd ever heard, and I've read a lot of stories. Good night.

Chris said...

Hey Jude, I'm not sure why you continue to interact with Michael, as he has suggested Trent, Nicole & both of CW's parents were at the scene of the crime. He seems to be grasping at straws to alter the scenario. I appreciate your sticking to SA and your transcription efforts.

Michael said...

Hey Jude, I don’t agree that Trent should have said HIS TRUCK & then THE TRUCK. The fact that he went from HIS to THE means something about the truck had “changed” once he got into the truck, like maybe Shannan’s dead body was on the floor of the truck.

Chris, bullshit. I specifically said I see no involvement from Nicole ot Chris’ mother.

Hey Jude said...

Chris, the investigators have asked Chris Watts some interesting questions about Trent, Nichol and Chris's parents during this interview, so they are all valid lines of interest/enquiry in regards potential influence, knowledge, or involvement in the crimes. I see Michael's posts more as trying to understand what happened rather than attempting to alter the scenario.

Michael said...

Thank you Hey Jude

frommindtomatter said...

OT Kay Vernal

Thanks for the transcript Autumn.

I have read a few articles on this to get some background and it is worth considering the following. Hal Vernal was in the house with his wife (upon finding her) for an unknown amount of time before he went to a neighbour and asked them to call 911. So straight off the bat I have a problem with that. He did not call 911 for help when he found her and we are left to ponder why.

“On the way home I tried to reach her and when no one was answering I knew something was wrong.”

“no one was answering” – We expect Kay or at least She used but we are given “no one” was answering. Who else could have answered the phone?

“I knew something was wrong.” - To know something means that you have knowledge of it. He doesn’t say he thought or was worried something was wrong he tells us in his own words “he knew”. This seems very strange. Most people would consider other options first, perhaps she was having a nap or taking a shower etc.. Hal says he “knew,” he didn’t think or worry, he knew.

“I didn’t find, I didn’t see any blood on the, on the rugs, but it’s on the banister, the banister railings, it’s on the floor spattered all over the damn place and, and God knows in the kitchen where he had to have cut her. Did nobody find blood in that place? I mean, I mean with a shoe print or something?”

“I didn’t find, I didn’t see” – He uses negative language to tell us what he didn’t find instead of what he did. I would expect him to tell me what he did see not the opposite.

“and God knows in the kitchen where he had to have cut her” – God knows is his second use of the word God in the interview. He also knows that “he had to have cut her in the kitchen”. It seems to me that he knows a lot about the crime scene, he knows where she was cut and everywhere that blood isn’t. But remember we don’t know how long he was in the house looking round before he went to a neighbour to ask them to call 911. He must have done a forensic examination on the place.

There’s a ton of stuff wrong with his statement but another part that really stands out.

“I don’t know that anything’s stolen and, eh, unless wh..when, you know, you said that he must have been upstairs, that blew me over. I can’t even imagine her allowing him upstairs especially if he had hit her and he, and she was covered with blood, I, it’s driving me crazy trying to figure out what took place, eh, really, eh, detective, I, I don’t know.”

Hal is blown over that the murderer might have been upstairs. He thinks his wife wouldn’t have allowed a violent murderer up there. If the killer has assaulted his wife I think he would be the one calling the shots.

Hal is choosing his words and he believes that his wife was in a position to allow or deny the killer going upstairs. Think about that, he introduced the word “allow” into his statement. With that he gives his wife the power over the killer.

He says “I can’t even imagine” – He uses the extra unnecessary word “even” in describing what he can’t imagine.

He corrects himself here – “especially if he had hit her and HE, and SHE was covered with blood.”

The statement is full of a need to convince. He wants the detective to know he rushed to help his wife yet he didn’t phone 911. He wants him to know that he can’t sleep at night and cries often. He refers to the killer as a “guy” at the beginning of his statement which is very soft tone language to describe your wife’s killer. Also I expect to see a lot of anger and urgency about finding the killer but it isn’t there.


Michael said...

Chris, mean anon, & Hey Jude are the person. Now that that mystery is solved, I’d like to get back to the Watts case.

Michael said...

Why do we have to talk about Hal? Tbat case sucks.

mean anon said...

Gee, Michael, enlighten us.
Why do you think the FBI, CBI and Frederick investigators didn't charge anyone but Watts for the crime, obstruction, or tampering? Could it be that CW was the only person at the scene and at Anadarko well site?

Michael said...

For some reason, I can't focus on the case tonight. Out of the blue, I am feeling a little down about other cases that have been (terribly) mishandled. Troubled if you will. Good night.

Anonymous said...

OT: Kay Wenal

Adrian, thanks for looking into this case. I think those are all very valid points.

Yes, Hal may have avoided calling 911 himself because he didn’t want his words to be analyzed by the police and armchair detectives. I read in an online newspaper article (Gwinnett Daily Post of June 8, 2012) that he was too distraught to even dial 911. But apparently he was not too distraught to walk over to the neighbor’s house, ring the doorbell, explain the situation and ask them to call the police.

There is an interview with Kay’s sister on youtube in which she says that Hal had been trying to contact Kay all afternoon (so not only on the way home). That makes it somewhat more plausible that he thought something was wrong. But at the same time it raises new questions. Did he have a habit of calling his wife over and over while he was at work? Or was it just this afternoon? That would be a huge coincidence then. Either that or … it was alibi building. Did Hal leave any messages? It would be interesting to hear those. Also: if Hal was so concerned about Kay why didn’t he leave work earlier? After all he was his own boss. And why, in that case, did he take the time to go to a fast food restaurant after leaving the office (where he was conveniently caught on camera)? Why not go straight home if he “knew” something was wrong?

Yes, very strange that Hal said “I didn’t find, I didn’t see (…)”, etc. As if he gave the investigators an account of his thoughts while going from the front door to the kitchen that day. His first thoughts do not reflect surprise by the presence of blood. His first thoughts reflect surprise at the absence of blood on the rugs (in the hallway was at least one rug). As if he expected there to be blood on the rugs. I think the killer was supposed to kill Kay right in the hallway. The attack started out there but she escaped to the kitchen. This may also explain why Hal was especially baffled by the relatively minor fact that the killer went upstairs: that was not part of the plan. Hal’s language in this part of his statement is also reminiscent of the profanity-filled anonymous letter (“all over the damn place”). I furthermore wonder why he asked (about the kitchen): “Did nobody find blood in that place?”. It’s a weird question. Hal found Kay so he knows there was a lot of blood in the kitchen. He knows police saw that blood too. He then further explains his question by saying: “I mean, I mean with a shoe print or something?” Apparently he wanted to know if “nobody” found footprints of the killer in Kay’s blood in the kitchen. Why say “Did nobody” instead of “Didn’t police” or “Didn’t you”? I found the tone of his voice in this part of the interview particularly insincere. All in all it seemed to me he was not so much eager for the police to find evidence of the killer. It’s more like he was trying to get an affirmation that “nobody” found any traces of the killer.


Hey Jude said...

OT: Sorry for the Misinformation - I don't know from where I got the idea that CW said or described strangling his girls - he describes smothering them, which does correspond with the autopsy reports (though I haven't heard him say the word 'smother' so far, either).
He is so passive, it seems almost as though he was not there.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

There was one point where he said that Shann’ann strangled the girls (after FBI suggested to him that maybe Shannan killed them).

I agree that he is so passive in his linguistics that it seems like he wasn’t even there.

One thing that is odd is that the neighbor’s camera did not show Shannann returning home that night at around 2 am. The Watts doorbell cam does show her coming home.

Another incomsistency: Chris says the girls were smothered in the car at the site, yet he told Nicole that day (after they were killed) that he was washing the girls’ sheets because they were “stinky”. Much like Chris says that the girls said it smelled in the truck...the assumption is that Shannann pooped when she was strangled. But why would the girls sheets be stinky if he killed them at the site?
Also, on the neighbor’s cam, it doesn’t look like he’s loading a dead Shannan into the car.
Did Shannan definitely come home that night after flying in?
I also think it’s weird that someone who has never lost their temper would do those killings. There needs to be some pattern of behavior.

Turtlebabble said...


Hey Jude,

CW did say he strangled CeCe. In part 4. of your transcript.

"M:          And that’s how she passed?  Couldn’t breathe?

CW:       No, I put the blanket over her head – I didn’t want her to – uh, know.  I strangled her right there in the back seat."

Thank you for your transcript. :)  

Hey Jude said...

Ah, thanks, Turtle Babble, that must be how it was in my mind that he had said it. I have just passed. the point at which he describes smothering them, which made me think I must have been mistaken in thinking he had claimed to strangle them. I can't keep all the contradictory details together in my mind - he is very contradictory.

Michael, Yes, Shan'ann did come home - at least, there's video cam clip on YouTube that shows her approaching the house, from the doorbell cam. Also her friend Nicole Atkinson, said she waited till Shan'ann opened her front door and waved to her, after she had dropped her off that night - she was her lift as they had been on the same conference.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

Watch the doorbell cam footage—you can see a car (Nicole’s car) take off rather speedily before she waves.

Michael said...

Why do Chris’ limguistics present like he wasn’t even there?

MIchael said...

Why did Nicole A get home around 2 am and check her phone at 6 am & think it was weird that she hadn’t gotten from Shannan “harrassing” her to do work things? Why would she think Shannan would be texting her at 6 am when she wasnt feeling good, was pregnant, had 2 kids & would have only slept for about 3 hrs at that point?

Hey Jude said...

Well, she said she saw her wave. Maybe she only saw her wave later, after she had watched the video from the doorbell cam, and then thought she had actually seen her wave at the time - the mind can play tricks like that.

There can be some quite different reasons as to why CW sounds as if he wasn't there - I'm hoping Peter will tell us which it is, for sure.


I will upload the next bit presently - I am up to 3hr 25 minutes, and just checking it through again.

Hey Jude said...

In other places, he says things which make it sound as if he were there.


'Thrive' was a very demanding occupation, Shan'ann was doing well in it, and the early bird catches the worm. People who are lower down in the ranks can get to feel harassed in that type of business, whether they are part of it, or as customers. Think of the enthusiasm of an Amway or Kirby rep and how you might be persuaded into buying anything after six hours of sales evangelism, just to get your life back. Nicole A was maybe not as successful or enthusiastic about Thrive and the life that went with it, as was Shan'ann.

Michael said...

Hey Jude,

Thrive sounds crazy, like a cult. All for selling protein bars. It sounds like there is some brainwashing involved. It is quite bizarre that Nicole anticipated Shannann would be texting her after Nicole had only slept for 3 hours? That sounds beyond overzealous if Shannann would bother her friend like that. I would be EXTREMELY annoyed if my friend knew I had only had 3 hrs of sleep & was badgering me to sell protein bars—I would have shut my phone off to prevent that from happening, so I could sleep, yet Nicole A was checking her phone at 6 am concerned that her friend wasn’t badgering her after only 3 hours of sleep?! Something is weird there!!!
With Nicole A, the doorbell cam does not show any waving.
Thanks so much for your transcribing. Can you send the parts where he talks about what happened that night to Peter?

Hey Jude said...

Yes, but I haven't finished it yet.

I uploaded part 9 - another two or three to go, probably I will finish it by midweek.


Maybe she didn't actually check her phone at six, more noticed later that Shan'ann hadn't sent any early morning messages that day.
Well, if there's no waving on the video, maybe she does just tend to embellish.

Michael said...

No she specifically says that she woke up at 6 am and looked to see if their was a text from Shannann bugging her about Thrive and there wasn't, she thought it was weird and went back to sleep and then checked the phone again at 10 am and started panicking? It's just odd.

Here is a video that was put up today on youtube by some lady who has a much different theory than ARmchair Detective, but I think it makes more sense and is based on facts (not Chris's "confessions"), some new facts I didn't know about where exactly the dogs hit on scents in the house etc and other info. I think she is probably right.

You might find it interesting.

Gloria said...

Off Topic Question:

Why would a guy known to me say to me (angrily) "How do you ALWAYS get your lipsticks to match whatever shirt you're wearing" (said angrily)

I said "Um why are you asking me that?"

He said (still somewhat angrily) "I don't know I"m just you go out and buy specific ones that match each color or you just know which ones you already have that will match exactly?" said angrily

I responded "I just have my lipsticks where I can see them and choose which color matches my shirt. Why do you sound mad about my lipstick?"

And he said "I'm not mad! I figured you would just be impressed I noticed!"

And I said "It doesn't sound complimentary and it's making me feel weird."

Is it normal for a hetero guy to notice lipstick or lipstick colors or if lipstick colors match your outfit?

Willow said...

@Gloria. Interesting. Your story reminds me of a young man long ago. A fellow student that I met for a date or two.
One day he asked me; Why do you always come on time? And he stopped there smirking.

I speechless, was on alert, what was this? He went on staying in his topic, agitated: You are never late or early. How can it be?
I felt threatened. Yet there was nothing obvious to be afraid of. That made me all the more afraid.
I didn't see this person since.
He scared me with nonsense.

Gloria said...

@Willow, Yes! That is very similar & it does scare me! He said it angrily also! One time he seemed to make an excuse to watch me put on my makeup & was staring at how I was doing it. I didnt think much of it until he shouted at me a few days later “Everything comes so easy for you!!!” I think it is because he was jealous of how well & quickly I can put on my makeup having done it for 30 yrs. I wonder if he is a crossdresser & it is scary to feel that type of angey envy from him. Im thinking about ending the friendship.

Anonymous said...

Why do women apply paint their faces?

Gloria said...

I don’t know, but I dont know why he would act envious of my makeup & curious about to apply. Also he mentioned poop repeatedly—dog poop, goose poop & at least 4 other times he said poop...can someone profile him?

Gloria said...

He also was glaring at my hair.

It’s unnerving.

Should I be afraid?

Gloria said...

He also commented on a painting I bought. He saw it hanging on my wall between 2 windows & he said in a very saccharine tone “That painting really found it’s home there, didn’t it...” like in a sugary sweet tone. It creeped me out though.

Gloria said...

I feel energetically “slimed on” when he is around me. There is no other way to describe it. What is that feeling trying to tell me?

Willow said...

Gloria. I think what we are describing are the signs of a troubled soul. We as recipients should be able to recognize a threat and keep our distance. These signs make us afraid and we should listen to ourselves and keep away.

I googled my former date yesterday. He did study a high degree in one of the most prestigious professions. He should be a success on paper.
What comes up is odd for an adult, no career, nor expected interests like sports. Instead, confrontational ideological strange material, profusely.

Gloria said...

You're right, Willow. They are troubled souls. I think people who act like them are deceptive, trying to keep a mask on, but it slips now and then, and I think the envy and strange confrontational comments come out when the mask slips.

He makes me feel so slimed on...I have never felt anything like it. He does not touch me, yet I feel the urge to scrub my skin with a brillo pad from being around him. He also fakes being giddy and happy by saying really stupid things and acting like it is so funny and like giggling about it and it is so fake. That is strange about your date's lack of normal interests and immersion in confrontational ideology. That is weird that he was angry that you were always on time, he was probably jealous of your punctuality...I think these types get jealous of anything or any trait that is positive.