Wednesday, May 6, 2020

Tara Reade Interview Analyzed


hat tip to Hey Jude for transcription of interview 

             Sexual Assault and Harassment Cases 

These are amongst the most challenging and complicated for us due to:

1. The complexity of Sex (subjectivity in language, perception)

2.  shame, embarrassment, resentment, fear, etc of the victim. Also a highly defensive posture if the subject has not been believed or fears not being believed. This is why our focus must be primarily the event, itself.  

3.  The passage of time and impact upon repeated telling of the account.  This is a vast element within itself. 

4. Illicit or Mixed motives---- fame seeking, money, revenge, politics, etc, can combine with genuine motive of justice to bring out truth. The subject may have an illicit motive, yet still tell the truth. 

5. Mental health issues--including issues stemming from trauma, childhood, physical health, medications, etc. 

6. Having to discern and separate truth from fabrication.  This leads us to focus in upon the sentences most closely. 

7. Elements of psychological denial that can emerge in the language. 

8. Cultural pressures

At one time, it was a cultural pressure for women to not report such things.  This pendulum now swung violently to the illogical  "believe the woman", which perverted justice.  Championed in media and Hollywood, it has now met a new adversity in that it is no longer a convenient form of deception.  

What if the subject was "a jerk" to her and she perceived this as an assault?

What if the subject is exaggerating due to feelings of rejection? 

What if the subject was truthful about the event, but deceitful about what led up to it, what happened afterwards, or why she is coming forward?

Sexual assault is "personal", meaning in statement analysis, that "he did this to me", rather than "this happened..."  

To the victim: A sexual assault isn't against society or against a faceless victim. In verbalizing what happened, we look for linguistic commitment. Later, the subject may have a motive of protecting society (unknown individuals), but during the alleged assault itself, reliable reports are "personal"----against the subject done by a specific perpetrator.  

Sometimes, the denial is the most reliable source for us.  

This isn't always the case, but it can be a useful guide. 

The subject that issues a reliable denial and "stands behind the psychological wall of truth" gives us our best understanding of actual, rather than judicial innocence.  

With complexity in mind, we may find unreliable and even deceptive portions, yet the alleged event is analyzed for commitment.  

The interviewer did a poor job.  The form of "the event" cannot be measured in total due to the interviewer's contamination.  

The interview puts much priority into the report that the subject made, more than the critical, "what happened."  

Due to the excessive length and contamination, the analysis will focus upon the event and seek to answer the question:

Would the subject pass a polygraph about the alleged sexual assault? 

KH:  So, Tara Reade, thank you so much for talking to me - where would you like to start?  Where does the story start for you?

Note the use of "story" in the language of the interviewer. Note that the word "start"  is repeated.  

Best is, "Tell us what happened" and allow the subject to choose her own words. 

TR:  Um, well, the story starts when I went to work for Joe Biden.  That was, um, in uh ninety-two, and so I was hired um, that fall.  The year that Bill Clinton uh was nominated as our president, so I was in - uh before that, I was - out west, and I had worked on a congressional race, um, before I was working in politics, I was um, an actress and a model, and I had studied classically, I really loved the arts, and I come from a family of - arts, and activists, and what not.  Um, and then I got interested in college, in political science, and I went and interned for Leon Panneta, when he was a congressman, and worked on an animal rights issue that ended up being, um, put into law, and signed into law, so it was very exciting and it was a very successful experience and then um, when I applied for Joe Biden’s office I had a phone interview -  and then they, um, offered for an intermediate person, and then I went out to DC, and I interviewed in person, and when I was there, uh, the scheduler interviewed me, and uh, Joe Biden happened to walk - breeze past, and he uh saw me, and uh, she introduced me, and we were in the inner kind of alcove office, and uh, he asked me my name - I told him and he said, oh, that’s a good Irish name, and she offfered to him, “hey, she worked as an intern for Leon Panetta”,- and then he’s, “Oh, he’s a good guy”, and he looked back and smiled at me and said, “Hire her.”  And then, Whahay, and the scheduler looked at me and said, “I guess you’re hired.” 

This is a very lengthy introduction and is likely related to her motive for coming forward.  

Consider also that the subject may be shifting blame for her coming in contact with Joe Biden.  

KH:  What was the position for?

Better is, "Continue..." By asking about a specific position, the interviewer has now artificially lengthened the introduction.  We saw how the word "story" was reflective, influencing the subject, and now the form of "what happened" is contaminated.  

TR:  it was for a staff assistant position, so I, um, you know, pretty low on the totem pole, but you’re like able to work through it, so I was working with , um the interns, so I supervised the intern program, and made sure, like, you know, all the Mail was distributed, most of the interns did that - and trained them, and worked for legislative aides - I would like help, go to a hearing and take notes, or write something.

KH:  So like, sort of fun?

TR: Yeah, so it was sort of like you just did what you had to do - all hands on decks, sort of.

KH:  And you were how old at this point?

TR:  Mid-twenties.

KH:  And how long did you work for Biden, in total?

TR:  Nine months.

KH:  You um, would later come forward, after Lucy Flores came forward about something that happened in ninety-three.

TR: Yes, and I actually did come forward um, in ninety-three, but not to the press, but I went through protocol and complaint.

KH:  What was your complaint about?

A good question to ask, using the subject's own language. 

TR:  Sexual harassment.  Um,  I did not uh - complain formally about the other piece of what happened, that I’ll talk about in a few minutes, 

likely influenced by recent press reports 

but um, I talked about what was witnessed, um, and eh - the general atmosphere of the office, the way I was treated, ‘cause I would see him at meetings, and he would basically put his hands on me, put his hands on my shoulder, run his finger on my neck, he was very, like, handsy, with a lot of people - but like with - it - it’s like what I had - and I had said this in the press, before, from the last time, um, it - he made me feel like an inanimate object - I didn’t feel like a person.   He - he didn’t like make conversation with me, or talk with me, or ask me - anything - relevant - it was just - you know.  It, it was definitely that kind of vibe, so it was uncomfortable.  

note "what was witnessed" is passive.  Is it appropriately so, in that she does not have the witnesses to come forward?

"the way I was treated" is stronger, personal. This is a descriptive term of perspective.  

What he "would" do "basically" is not a commitment to what happened. She appears to be addressing the pre allegation event time period. 

She reports what he "didn't" do----- he didn't make conversation with her.  

Did the subject feel objectified? 

So, it was really after that incident when I walked in and everyone was arguing. I was called into the office, and I was very nervous ‘cause I thought I did something wrong, like I remember feeling almost sick to my stomach nervous, like, you know, this was a big deal getting called in rather than them just coming and talking to me. 

This is common for both embedded admissions and is consistent with the guilt that sexual assault victims experience.  It should be noted, but not isolated. 

 When I walked in people’s voices were raised, they were arguing, and that - there was a legislative assistant, she’s a senior aide, um, she worked on women’s issues, I believe, among other issues. I know judiciary issues, for sure, but anyway, she turned to me, and she um, said, the senator thinks that you have - um, that you’re pretty, and that you have nice legs, he wants you to serve drinks at this  fundraising event, and you don’t have to do that, Tara, you know - that’s not part of your job. 

And then the scheduler came in right after, she kinda interrupted her in the middle of what she was saying, and then said whatever she said, and I can’t remember everything that was exchanged, 

appropriate given the passage of time 

but basically everyone kinda looked at me, and I just froze, ‘cause I didn’t know - what to say to anybody, and um, it was uncomfortable, and I knew that no matter what I decided to do, um I was gonna either, you know, make my - my immediate supervisor very unhappy, or I was gonna look bad in the eyes of this person, the legislative- you know, assistant, he was sticking up for me obviously, and didn’t think I should be objectified - so it was - it was a strange position to be in, and I just left - I didn’t say anything, actually, and um, I called my mom, and she was very adamant that I document it and file a report, and she said, you know, and her exact words were - I remember because we got into like a little bit of an argument about it, she said, um, “You just march in there and you tell them this is sexual harassment, and you know, and you file a complaint.”  And I tried to explain to my mother that wasn’t easy, you couldn’t just march into Ted Kaufman’s office, that’s Chief of Staff, and that there was a protocol, and there was a way to do that - and my mother was very, um, she just said, you know, you tend to be a little passive sometimes, you know, sometimes you stick up for yourself, but sometimes, you know, you let people take advantage of you, you need to stand up, and you need to address this.

So I already kind of had those feelings, but at that point I knew I wanted to look at taking some action, so I did it, a non-formal thing by just going to my supervisor - that’s when I was met with some of her attitude about the whole thing.  Like, why wasn’t I complimented?  You know, you know, that people would be flattered to be liked by Joe Biden - you know, basically she was also   admonishing me to keep my head down if I wanted to last   - she said that a couple of times,  and um, she took me in the hallway a couple of times and just was very, you know, kinda chewed me out a few times.  

Um, nothing was in writing but the timeframe for me, from this event to when I met him with the gym bag and the incident, is compressed for me, and I don’t know like how much time passed, but I do know a couple of things happened between those two events.  One of them that was significant, was being told I had to dress differently, and that I was too provocative, and that was by the assistant, and by the scheduler, and uh, they were finding fault with my work all the time - like every little thing, and it was almost to the point where three or four times a day there would be something - something  - something wrong.  

And my mother, I called my mom one day in tears, you know, and she was like, you know, this is retaliation, they know that you want to file something, you know, you’ve already - you’re going through the motions - ‘cause I - I had gone as far as  to talk to Dennis [?]  who was the next person up after [redacted at source] um, and Dennis [?] was then below Ted Kaufman, and it was just like this protocol you followed, and uh, I eventually did talk to Ted Kaufman, um, and Dennis [?] and [redacted] then [redacted] wasn’t even talking to me anymore, they - they -  it was Dennis [?] who dealt with me.

You know, up to this point, working for Biden had been kind of tense.  His public persona’s very different from what’s it’s like to work - it’s more like working for a corporation,  it’s very um, top down, and it’s very um, tense, and uh - he’s not - he doesn’t treat his staff that well.  So, my opinion, that was my experience of it, and some other people that were complaining about it.  I would leave abruptly.  In fact the position that I had, they were having trouble keeping a person in it - um, so I don’t know what that’s about, but that’s one of the things at the interview they made clear, is that people kept leaving, and that they wanted me to stay, and asked me if I had plans to stay, and I said yes, but I wanted to make a career on The Hill, and that I’d eventually like to run for office some day.  

KH:  Uhum.

You know, that was my - and when I came in, it was at this beautiful time,  before all the scandals, before the impeachment, and this was when he first was president, I got to go to the Inauguration, I got to go to the Inaugural Balls because I was working for Senator Biden, and it was this magical time in a sense, I walked  the Bridge of Hope, got to meet Mae Angelou, which is one of the highlights of my life, and it was just amazing, and - and wonderful - so I, I was like a puppy with enthusiasm, you know, it was a dream job.  I was so happy to be there.

So I just went in with the attitude of doing everything I could to be - you know, a good employee, to be there, and I was very excited and honoured to be there.  

KH:  And so did you serve drinks at that event? 

TR:  I did not.  

KH:  okay, so - okay. 

TR:  It kind of just went away.  I - I said no, and then, when I said no, there was - I sort of got  attitude about it, and then.  I pushed back on another thing that had nothing to do with um, you know, sexual harassment, I pushed back about the intern program, because I was given a stack, by Ted Kaufman, the Chief of Staff, of resumes, and he told me, he directed me, firmly, to hire DuPont employees’ children, only.

KH:  Wow.

far off topic of sexual assault 

TR:  And I pushed back, and I said, I wanna hire - we need more diversity, and I wanna hire some women, and I wanna hire from other places. Like, you hired me, and then, after this whole conversation I was like, how did I get hired, I’m not from Delaware? I’m from West [?], like, right., so he said fifty percent, so he relented, fifty percent, and it was still just strange, so I’d have these interns that were more diverse and working class, and then I had these really privileged um, interns.  So, it was, that kind of stuff was happening, so there was like regular work challenges happening, right.

KH:  so how much interaction did you have with Biden?

TR:  I would s.. - well, it’s -   ‘cause I was there, I would see him, um, on and off, quite a bit, but wouldn’t necessarily talk with him.  He was always breezing out, breezing in with his  - people that would stay around him, usually the upper level staff, um, and they usually kind of kept right with him, so, um, but once in a while I would see him, and he would just do that thing that guys do, you know when they look you up and down and smile and stuff, it just was obnoxious.  I mean, I - and back then, I just accepted it for what it was.  When I talked about this discomfort that I had, I was really timid about it. 

much time has passed for self reflection; she may have sought professional help over the many years since working for Biden. 

I found myself getting more and more like, withdrawn and timid about um, speaking out, because of the atmosphere,  and because [redacted] was so closed down about hearing about it.  She would just be like, you know, one of the things she said to me was, you know, the Senator likes you, most women would really like that attention, and she goes, I don’t understand your attitude, like what is the problem?  

So, it was, it was, you know, I definitely felt um, feeling like I didn’t belong there - it definitely wasn’t a progressive office. 

Agenda noted 

 Definitely not like that then - I don’t know what it would be like now, but um, I, then, the incident when I talked about the discomfort, I was just told to do what I was told, and um, and it wasn’t long after that [redacted] called me in and said, I want you to take this to Joe - he wants it, he wants you to bring it - hurry.  And I said, okay, it was a gym bag, she said, take the gym bag - she called it athletic bag, and um, yeah, she said he was down towards the Capitol, and he’ll meet you.  And so I went down, and I was heading down towards there, and he was at first talking to someone, I could see him at a distance, and then they went away, and then, um, we were in like the side - it was like the side area, and um — he was, he just said, “Hey, come here, Tara”, and I like handed him the thing, and he greeted me, he remembered my name, and then, we were alone and it was the strangest thing. 

the form of the statement cannot be measured in total as it is altered by the interviewer.  

"we" (unity) is while being alone with Biden before the event. 

 There was no like, exchange, really, he just had me up against the wall, and, Um - I was wearing like a skirt, and you know, it was a skirt, but I wasn’t wearing stockings, it was kind of a hot day that day, and I was wearing heels, and I remember my legs had been hurting from the marble, you know, of the Capitol, like walking - so I remember that kind of stuff, I remember like, that, and there was kind of an unusually warm day, and I remember I was wearing a blouse, and he just had me up against the wall, and the wall was cold, and I remember he - it happened all at once.  The gym bag, I don’t know where it went, I handed it to him, it was gone and his hands were on me and underneath my clothes - and um, yeah. -   he went - he went down my skirt but then up inside it, and he - uh, penetrated me with his fingers, and um, I - uh - he was kissing me at the same time and he was saying something to me. 

She reliably reports the physical contact in the above emboldened sentences.  

He said several things.  I can’t remember everything he said - I remember a couple of things. I remember him saying, first, as he was doing it - do you wanna go somewhere else?  And then him saying to me when I pulled away, he um - got finished doing what he was doing, and I pulled back, and he said, “Come on, man, I heard you liked me.”  

This is consistent with his language--- it is used by him frequently, to this day and is  on videos of his current campaign. 

And, um - it’s that phrase stayed with me because I kept thinking what I might have said, and I can’t remember exactly if he said, “I thought” or “I heard”, but it’s like he implied like that I had done this - like, I don’t know, and for me, it was like everything - everything shattered in that moment, because I knew, like, we were alone

she returns and uses "we" again, specifically about being alone with Biden.  She twice united herself with Biden specifically about being alone with him.  This was likely very important to her, particularly in expectation. (see conclusion) 

This is a very important paragraph: 

it was over , right, He wasn’t like trying to do anything more, but it’s - I looked up to him, he was like my father’s age, he was this champion of women’s rights, in my eyes, and I couldn’t believe it was happening, it seemed surreal -and I just - I knew, I just felt sick, because he - when he pulled back he looked annoyed, and he said um, something else to me that I don’t want to say, and then he said - I must have looked shocked, and he grabbed me by the shoulders - I don’t know how I looked, but I must have looked something, because he grabbed me by the shoulders and he said, you’re okay, you’re fine, you’re okay, you’re fine - and then, um, he walked away

This is very likely a feeling of abandonment or even humiliation. 

There is no "we" (unity) in the description post event. 

 She was unified with him in likely wanting to be alone with him, but no longer  unified after the physical contact.  

The location of the emotions is appropriate due to the passing of many years and the repeating of the account. 

Much here is perception: 

and he went on with his day and what I remember next is being in the Russell building, like where the big windows are, and the stairs, by myself - and my body, I was shaking everywhere, because it was cold all of a sudden, and I was - I don’t know,  I felt like I was shaking, just everywhere, and I was trying to grasp what had just happened and what I should do, or what I should say, but I knew it was bad because he was so angry, like when he left, like I could feel -  you know how when you know someone is angry, they don’t have to say anything, like he smiles when he’s angry, and you can just feel it emanating from him, like.  

Right, so then I went home and um, I called my mom, because, um, I didn’t know who else to call, and she was wanting me to go  make a police report like right then, my mom was very adamant that I do that, and um, very strong about me doing that, and I said, no, and we had like an argument about it, um, and I said, mom, you can’t do that. and she had known about the other stuff, and had encouraged me to document it, which I did, and go to the protocol about the -  sexual harassment, and after this incident I did follow her instructions and do that part, but I didn’t talk about what happened, I was too -  I tried to bring it up to [redacted] later, and she just wouldn’t hear it, she like shut me down before I could even get there, and um said, I can’t believe you’re trying to bring - bring things like this up, and  she said how can I bring this to Ted Kaufman?  He’ll just think we’re all on our periods.  

KH:  wow.  and she could tell you were talking about something more than the harassment, or she was just saying that about the harassment?

TR:  um,  I don’t know, I don’t  - I can’t - I - I can’t project on to like what that conversation was ‘cause I was starting to tell her - she didn’t know, I didn’t tell her, I started to try to go there, and she shut it down 

KH:  Right, got it, yeah.

TR:   - like, I don’t want to hear this, like, that’s enough.  Like, you know, kinda basically letting me know like if I didn’t like it I could just go.  And so I  - it wasn’t too long after um, when I would see Biden after that, um, he would just not look at me. Not. He looked angry, like he would get this look on his face, and like whoosh - you know how someone walks by and instead of greeting you and smiling like they normally do, they won’t look at you - and he was pissed. 

KH: Right.

TR:  So then, the final interaction I had was 

She is now in his presence again.  We do not expect to hear the word "we" from her: 

- it was a mandatory meeting where I had to be there, and he came up behind me -  and put his hand on my shoulder, and then put his - um -  thumb or finger, I don’t even know what, but up and down the back of my neck - the hair, the back of my hair. And I remember I just froze, because I didn’t know what that meant, it was uncomfortable and I again told my mom about it, because it was just weird, and mom said, you know, that’s just power, he’s trying to dominate - you.  

There is no psychological unity here between them. She reliably reported the physical contact; here in her description, it is affirmed. 

KH: So this was after, ‘cause this was after the assault that happened?

TR:  yeah, yeah, that was the last kind of time I ever really interacted because they - they put me in a - um, windowless office, I didn’t have the one with the window anymore, I had - and I was cut off from staff, I was not supervising the interns anymore, I was not doing  - I was, literally my job was just to show up and look for another job.  I wasn’t allowed to go to legislative hearings,  nothing - so.  

But the chronology was that I was then looking for a job in - in June. I was volunteer for the RFK Memorial, the 25th Anniversary, I did the VIP tent, and I was taking to a person in Kennedy’s office who was trying to help me back towards trying to like - like get them to stop what they were doing, and anyway, technically, I think um my senate record goes to August, but I remember leaving before then.  Um, so - and I didn’t have a job, I couldn’t get a job.  Um, once like word got around unofficially about my trying to file a complaint, filling out a form and stuff, it’s like I - no-one    - no-one on The Hill.  Uh, like usually when I would send out resumes I would get responses right away.  

resentment noted.  See explanation on competing motives. 

KH:  I just want to make sure I’m clear on this.  You consider [inaudible] reporting the harassment? 

TR:  I did try to complain about the harassment internally, but I was going through protocol, you would see your supervised first, then Dennis [?], then - like I was following the protocol. I did it right

KH: Yes

TR: but - um, they didn’t do anything, right, and then it got worse, and then I went outside and tried, and there was like this office set up, and I can’t remember if it was in the Rayburn office, or if it was in the - it seemed to me like it was a congressional office building, not the Russell, Russell’s Senate - um, Longworth or Rayburn, and it was this little tiny office, and you go up, and there was literally a clipboard, and I filled out a form, and someone was a t the window, but it was weird, and it wasn’t very confidential, and it was just off. So I filled out the form, and I know it existed - they took it, and I don’t know what happened to it.  I’ve tried to track that form down but I was told it was probably returned to Biden’s office. So it’s archival material.

KH:  okay, so there’s sexual harassment that you witnessed and experienced, but you go through protocol, but nothing happens, then you have the incident with Biden in the alcove - you tell your mom and she encourages you to file a police report, you say no, but I will do something external about the harassment, not the assault?

TR:  Right, yeah - and I thought about trying to talk about it, I tried, but I couldn’t, I just couldn’t.  Even now, like, I - it’s so hard, and I don’t - I mean I’ve worked as an advocate for domestic violence cases, and I’ve helped kids, and I’ve helped whatever- but it’s just, um - there’s just - there was no framework back then.   And to be really clear, I - my mom educated me after it happened that it was sexual assault- I felt - I felt like it was my fault, like that I did bring it on.  And the reason, when after the whole drinks, serving the drinks thing happened, um, things got really tense for me, and it’s like my supervisor kept finding all of my work - like all of a sudden I was doing things wrong all of a sudden.  And then she took me aside, and sent in an assistant, and said we want you to wear different clothes- you need to button up more, you need to wear a longer skirt.  Like In other words she - and she said, don’t look so sexy, shoes like [inaudible] - and she goes, try not to be so noticed, you’re too noticeable.

The other person was more awkward about it, she was just like, um, it’s nor coming from me, but they’re telling you to wear a longer skirt, and button up more, you’re a little too - provocative - was the word she used.

KH:  Right.  

TR:  And I was like - oh this is, this is weird, so I  told my mom that, and she goes, that’s retaliation - they’re trying to retaliate, you need to document everything.  And my mom was very like, adamant. Um, and I wasn’t - and I was like, Mom, and she  - my mom even said, you march in there, and you tell them this is sexual harassment and you don’t take it.  You don’t march into Ted Kaufman’s office and - you don’t do that, and I’m not - I just wasn’t comfortable. I said I’ll never be able to get a job on The Hill again, and it didn’t matter, because I couldn’t anyway.  

So - so, those, those are my memories of the overarching retaliation piece,  but again, it started as a verbal complaint, and then escalated to written. They did threaten to write me up about what I was wearing, and I was just wearing like, you know, suits - like your average like, you know, skirt, blouse, sometimes a blazer, whatever but - I don’t know, they - you know, they were - nice, I guess.  I didn’t have that many outfits, like I wasn’t - you know, I had like um just a basic wardrobe that I would interchange - but you know, it’s - it’s - now I look it at, it’s laughable, they were just turning it around on me, because I was like just wearing navy blue and black, and pinstripes -you know -  back then pinstripes were okay, I don’t know why, but, um

KH:  Nothing wrong with pinstripes.

TR:  So, yeah.  To be really clear, I started out with just on my end, I like documented,  my mom was like forcing me to, like, and I was even keeping a journal at the time.  Um.

KH:  Which you don’t have anymore, right?

TR:  No.  I don’t, I wish I did.  I just never thought this would ever come up again.  There’s - there’s many things from my youth that I don’t have, but I wish I did, but -  

KH: Yeah.

TR:  - she was kind of telling me what I needed to do.  She predicted that they would retaliate and she was absolutely right.  I didn’t think they would. For some reason I was just in this like - I just thought it would go away, like after the drinks thing.  I thought, well, you know, when you give the message I’m not interested, or I’m not like one of those people that just wants to try to make contacts that way, it’ll just go away.  But it didn’t, it got worse, and they really took an attitude with me.  It was almost hostile, it was like angry, almost, from upper level staff, like I wasn’t cooperating the way they wanted me to. 

So to be really clear, it was written, I mean it was verbal - excuse me, and then, after the incident is when I went outside

KH: The incident, the assault incident?

TR:  Yes,

KH:  Okay, yeah. 

TR: Um, after the assault I went outside the, you know, sphere of the office for help. And um, that’s when I sought out that little room that I filled out the form,, it was just a form, and then didn’t really know what to do after that. I talked to my friend who worked in Kennedy’s office, then she tried to talk to somebody there, to see, you know.  She wasn’t sure what to do either, and again I was pretty like, I told her, but it has this - the assault had, back then - it was very difficult- it’s still difficult for me to discuss openly, but back then it was just - I - it was really hard, and so I would talk around it.  My mom kinda pulled it out of me. I didn’t give her a lot of details at first, she kinda - it took her like an hour., and she got it.  I became like physically ill. I was, I was like - I, I don’t know. I completely like curled up and um -  I called her crying, and she was really concerned.

KH:  So you called her.

TR: Called her, and cried, and told her part of it, like talked around it, and then she got me to say the words.  

KH: So what did you say at first?

TR:  First I said there was something happened at work, it was kinda bad. And she said, kinda bad, what does that mean?  And she kept like, you know, asking me questions, and then finally - I said, well, I had an - I had an encounter with Senator Biden, and it was - it was - it, it - I j.. I don’t know what to do.  

And she said, what do you mean, an encounter? What does that mean?  And, and I said, well - she said, and then she got impatient - Tara, just tell me what you’re talking about.  And um, anyway, I don’t remember how the whole conversation went from there but I basically then gave her the, you know, the way out, and she was, you know, furious, like, she wanted to call the police - she was like - you know, she was a mom, and she was just like this is - that’s assault.  And I was like no, it’s not, I - I did something he said, he thought, you know, that I liked him,  and I was like trying, I almost, like I was defending him - it was bizarre.  Because I was just, I think I was kinda in shock, too. And um, I think that I kept thinking if I just - I wanted it to just go away. I wanted to just be  - to be back to where I was first in that office and like, you know, nothing ever happened.  But it won’t be now - I wasn’t - I was in denial, I guess. 

Part Two 

KH:  Interesting.  So both at the time and then moving forward, you were okay with, and I think it’s understandable, but I just want you to like explain it to people who may not understand, but you were - it was much easier for you to talk about the harassment than the assault because you came forward about the harassment, and you filed an external report, um - and not about the assault, and then jumping forward decades, you, when, after Lucy Flores came forward, you shared about the harassment but not the assault.  What’s the difference?  I just want to make sure that people who don’t get it, get it. 

TR:  It - it - it’s a very good point.  I - last April, um, I saw the way the press was tearing Lucy Flores apart, and a friend of mine had even called me, who went through - who I had told about the assault when it happened, so she was like, trying to like, one night when I was like, sobbing, and like, like knowing - it wasn’t, it wasn’t just the trauma of what happened because of him, it was because I knew my career was over, like that was it.  Like, I didn’t -   I insulted him, and he’s one of the most powerful people in the world, and at the time the chairman of the judiciary - like, there’s, I - I just really felt scared and sad and whatever.  So, she, she kinda of, she called me and she said, hey, you know, on the news they’re saying no employees of Biden came forward, and you know, what do you think? 

Uh, and then, my daughter knew about it and my daughter’s grown now, she’s not, you know, um, a child, like when Obama was elected, you know, and I guess I should share this - I don’t mind sharing it, it’s - um, I’m a lifelong Democrat, and my mom was a Democrat, and I mean like it’s what I believe in, and I voted for Obama - Biden happened to be on the ticket.  Um there was no way I could come forward then because my daughter was in junior high, and junior high is junior high - you know, I didn’t want- I didn’t even know if people would care, and there was no framework for that anyway.  

KH:  Right.

TR:  Plus I really believed in Obama, I just was so happy about him and his platform - he was uh, uh, an activist in Chicago I had heard, an organiser in Chicago, and my mom had, you know, that background of being an activist and I - I trusted him, so I thought this will be a great president, and he was - so, um, moving forward to this April when Lucy Flores was being so torn apart in the press, and like Whoopi Goldberg was making that comment publicly about “someone puts their hand on your shoulder you just turn around and you tell them to take it off” - and I was like, oh, oh, that’s cringe - cringeworthy, like if you work for them you don’t.  And in a sense  - it’s like she had been supported by him politically, so it’s like he was - he was endorsing her, so.

KH:   Right

TR:  And she come, yeah, like she - there was a power thing

KH:  Lucy Flores, yeah 

TR:   Yeah, and what I noticed is he seems to do this a lot with women with power differentials, so now I’m educated about that - I wasn’t

KH: Yeah

TR:  when I.  And um, I - I just - I didn’t like that and so I thought, okay, and so

KH:  The insinuation was like, look, if this is the guy who does this so much, why didn’t people who work for him experience that? That’s what they were saying, right?

TR:  Yeah, and I’d had more than one person say, oh well, do you have more women?  And I’m like, I don’t know, like, we don’t like all talk in a group like, okay - but no, that -  I mean, I don’t - that’s so absurd, like it - now I guess because of the Weinstein case, or other cases, they’re thinking  there - we have - we move in throng, and well this is the thing, I, and I want to make this really clear - this has been excruciating for me because I - I liked Biden.  I mean not in - way

KH: Governmental way, yeah

TR:  He was a powerful figure for me - he was, you know, I was his subordinate, I was hoping to have a career in the Senate, I wanted to be a Senator, I didn’t want to sleep with one.  I wanted to be taken seriously, I wanted to have a full career and be mentored,  and the people who worked around him were brilliant, like there were some really brilliant legislative assistants, so, it was a collective thing, it wasn’t just him, right.

KH: Right.

TR:  Excruciating for me is that, you know, he’s not like some horrible monster, he’s done really good things, and so, as you get older, you realise many things can be true at once. Like

This is to highlight the sophistication lacking as a young person. The subject stands with her progressive ideology.  This may have been a source of anger for her during the Democratic debates. 

KH: Yeah.

TR:  - like people can do cool stuff and then do really yucky stuff. 

KH: Right.

TR:  Um, I - just - it’s been excruciating because I - I  don’t want to say - I don’t - it’s a hard subject, still.  And even though there’s the MeToo movement, it’s still - like what happened to me in April when I did come forward, um, was, uh - I was just totally decimated online, on social media, and my reputation was, was torn apart.  Um, it’s a daily dot article of lLiberal Conspiracy calls Accuser Russian Agent, or something like that.  But um - 

KH:  So who did you go forward to at this point?  When you saw Lucy Flores being torn apart.

TR:  When I saw Lucy Flores?  Well, we have a local paper, and um, the - someone who was in my writing group knew about it and said, hey would you talk to a reporter and I said I don’t know, let me think about it, and I said, okay, you know, they can call me.  And they did, like a week later they called me, and so I accepted the call and then, um - and I even emailed Lucy Flores, I emailed her and said, hey I’m sorry, this happened to me, and I sent her - and she goes, really, would you talk to someone? and she gave me someone in the Washington Post, and then they never really followed up.  

KH:  And what was it like when you told her your story at this point, just the harassment story?

TR:  Well, I was gonna tell the whole thing, I was gonna try, and then I - I mean I was just gonna tell the whole facts, like the whole thing, the whole history with Biden, but the way I was being questioned - it, it, it made me so uncomfortable that I didn’t trust it, and no - no offence to the reporters out there, it’s just um, maybe that’s something that could be learned, how to talk to somebody who’s a  - I just really got shut down.  And um, and the narrative really wanted to be that it wasn’t like a sexual thing - like don’t do sexual - like don’t say it’s - or - and so I was like okay, I guess I can’t really say the whole story - the whole story, I can’t tell it.

It was hard - um, but then, I - I was afraid to - and then um, rightly so, because just the portion that came out - oh, my goodness - 

KH: Yeah, you got attacked on that.

TR:  So.  Yeah, I mean just the portion which came out was like, um - I - I mean they - the - literally the paper hadn’t even had the article yet, it was just on the - I guess on the AP wire, I hadn’t even seen the article yet, and I was already getting smeared online, so I didn’t even know where it was - I assume the AP wire, I don’t know.  

Um, yeah, it made me very angry, so I went through that and then I was kind of relieved that, you know, had I have come out with the whole thing I didn’t even know, because I received death threats, I received like calls in the middle of the night.  There was a thread about me called “Alexander Traitor Reade”

KH: Oh my God..

TR:  And then, um, I was trying to do freelance work, and uh - it’s a hard thing to - to - when people Google your name.  Like they would find all kinds of weird things said about me, so as soon as you put in my name, so, and then the whole Biden thing - and people that are very for Biden, it’s, it’s just - it, it gives me, it’s just so political and so loud right now that, yeah - it was - and we’re kind of in a culture of gladiators, thumbs up, thumbs down. 

KH:  Yeah, I think that people maybe don’t get that there’s a big difference between like a physical violation and like putting - having someone put their hand inside you - and being asked to serve drinks or being looked up and down, or um - you know, running his hand through your hair, not that any of those things are good things, but there is a big difference.

TR:  It, it - it was like, almost like creating the more the boundary was crossed, the more that was there, but I think he was looking for me to be a willing participant, um, as well, and, and I think he was used to that happening, maybe? - and I just wasn’t.  And I think pushing back on being objectified, plus I went out with - I had a boyfriend, I went out with boys my own age in their twenties. I didn’t go out with older married men - not that he was trying to go out with me - there was no computations about this, so I don’t want to like mis-misrepresent it.  

KH:  I’m just saying that people might say like, well, why didn’t you just tell the whole thing when you did?  That it was much more of a violation?  

TR:  I can  - I can tell you that I still have nightmares sometimes, even now, like years later.  When you suffer something like that, it’s - it’s like, I mean when you look at it clinically it seems like well what’s - it’s a terrible thing but why not, you know, just get over it like, or whatever, but the whole thing was I never got any justice, I never would, I lost my career.  I didn’t do anything wrong.  I - I didn’t choose that situation- I didn’t want him to look at me in an objectifying way.  By doing that he minimised me, he minimised my worth as - at the workplace - he minimised me as a woman, and I thought he was a champion of women,  so it was for me not just the violation but the violation of my principles, of like my belief system.  I believed in him, and - and he was my boss,  Like he had power over me - so to say no was such a hard thing, and I knew I insulted him and I didn’t want him to be insulted, but it was so awkward.  

I - if I had known how the atmosphere was, if somebody had tipped me off, and no-one did, I would have never applied, I would have gone to a different office, I would have worked for one of the other congressmen or senators, or congresswomen, um, like Maxine Waters, who was in California at the time.  Because, you know, I - I came from Panetta’s office, so I was used to the professional office, and there was none of that uh nonsense there.  Like there was not that.  There was not an atmosphere.  Um, I found out later that there was kind of a known vibe there, um, like he was known to - like women, in a certain way.

KH: Biden was?

TR:  Yeah.  Biden, not Panetta, yeah.

KH:  And so, then, okay, what?  What happens to make you tell the full story now?

TR:  I think it’s - well, my daughter’s grown- she’s grown now, and so back last April when I told that portion and then got such backlash I didn’t feel comfortable telling the whole thing.  And then I thought, well okay, just - it’s   - I’ll help people in other ways, like, I’ll help victims of sexual assault, like I mean I’ll just help in other ways and that’s what I’ve done before, instead of, you know tryinga - 

KH:  Was it that you felt guilty not coming forward or was it that, well this is the justice I will get, which is by helping others?  

TR:  I think kind of both, um, it’s not like I felt guilty.  I felt, when it happened at the time, I don’t want to be confusing- when it happened at the time I really internalised it and felt like it was my fault.  

KH:  Right.

TR:  I really felt like I - 

KH:  You felt guilty then.

TR: Right.

KH:  But this is a different guilt that I’m asking you about, which is like a “Oh, I have not spoken out about this person” guilt.  

TR:  Okay.  I wasn’t brave enough, I just couldn’t do it.  Yeah, I felt more not so much guilty as disappointed in myself that I just didn’t have the guts to say the words, but it’s almost like I would try to say the words and I couldn’t get there.  I don’t know how to really describe it except it was deeply personal and it makes you very vulnerable, and um, I still, you know, I’m sharing the facts, but like there’s little things that, you know, I keep to myself because it - it’s no-one’s business, its not gonna be like, you know, a police investigation, it’s - I’m never gonna sue - whatever.  You know, its past the statute of limitations.

KH:  Mmm.

TR:  I’m, doing this for the next generation, I’m doing this for my daughter, because the generation that we’re in, that I’m in - you’re younger than me, um, we need to stop this - we need to stop thinking that because someone’s powerful, we can’t speak out, and we can’t be safe in our work space, you know.  We need - we need that place, that framework, to be able to speak out, and that’s why I feel so adamant about it, because I thought he was gonna drop out, and he didn’t.  And the idea, can you imagine, for me, to see the person who did that, and then not only did that, but he never apologised, he never acknowledged it, he never said, “I’m sorry”.  And even, like, okay, if he’s in denial about what he did, right - doesn’t remember it or doesn’t want to, whatever it is, the sexual harassment was witnessed by so many people it was like a thing, like why wouldn’t his campaign have called me and said, “We’re sorry.”?  

And they’re supposed to be championing women’s rights, why wouldn’t they reach out to me - why wasn’t there some healing or conciliatory action?  And there never was then in ninety-two, ninety-three, and there isn’t now.  Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s ugly, it’s, it’s um

KH: And then you went, so you came, you went forward, you came forward to whom? It’s January, right, January 2020?  

TR:  Correct, yes.

KH:  At this point Biden wasn’t even doing that well, so

TR:  No, he wasn’t, but I really wanted to address what he did, and I actually did contact, um, I contacted Time’s Up, uh, which is an organisation for women that helps them get resources if you apply, um, for legal resources, and - to help you.  I gotta hold of Time’s Up, they were very - they took my case, and um after they took my case they contacted lawyers, they - to see if there was conflicts, um, some replied, and then - then when they heard about the full thing, the full account, they were worried about it, but one of them was going to take it, but then two of his partners in another state were working in the Virginia Biden campaign.  

He said okay if, if Biden’s probably going to drop out after Virginia, I can represent you then. Well, then he never did because of Biden didn’t drop out. 

Then Time’s Up got a hold of me and said that their lawyers told them if I go on c3 will be at risk uh, because it’s a presidential campaign, and it’s too political, and Biden was the candidate.
So they said we can help you like, but not with resources.  So In other words I needed a lawyer that would be for free, that would just volunteer their services.  They couldn’t give me their platform, they couldn’t do anything as long as Biden was a candidate.

KH:  So they were just trying to help you find a lawyer whom you’d have to pay?  

TR:  Yeah, and I didn’t have the resources to do that, so.  

KH:  Okay.

TR:  Um, then, you know, they stayed in touch and said they, you know, I pushed back a little and said I can’t help who the person is that did this.  Where do I go?  And you know, they felt bad, I could tell, and so I don’t know if their organisation was pressured by the people that fund it, or sit on the board, or - they said it was their attorneys who said their 501c3 would be at risk.  And I don’t know why that would happen, but they said it was too political, but I just - I let, I let it go because um - I mean I’m not trying to trash Time’s Up, they’re a good organisation doing great work, and they even said they believed the veracity of my story, they want to help me, and they were trying to, quietly, but it just couldn’t.

So yeah, so it’s been - um, I’ve been standing alone pretty much, um, and of course one of the questions that was asked me is, well, are there more women? And I’m like, how would I know this?  Like, I, you know what I mean, like - ?

KH:  Right.  Well, I mean it’s possible there would be and that you would know them, but the insinuation, implication is that like if you don’t, then it’s not a real story.  

TR:  I know, and like -

KH:  And of course it’s possible that there are other people like you and they precisely didn’t.  You only shared it with who,  your mom and your friend, right?

TR:  And my brother, yeah, and my family, yeah.  My immediate family, but yeah - it’s not that incident,  I never shared. I was horrified, yeah.  I was trying to share with my supervisor, in that way of, but I couldn’t, so.  

I found my outlet through like the arts, or through like horseback riding and stuff like that, and I would just try to be in denial, and like - I just want, I really kind of am a peace loving person, I just love - I just, you know, I’m a vegan hippy kind of person.

KH:  Yeah.

TR:  I just want everybody to be happy.  I want, um, people to be in a better space.  I don’t want to [inaudible].  I kinda felt too, that talking about it was, um, harmful.  I’m a very - like I remember that Lucy Flores, one thing that struck me, watching her, and listening to her, and I felt so - um, bad for her, because I related to what she was saying. Uh, she said, you know, I’m a Democratic foot soldier, I - because they were asking why she didn’t come sooner.  well, like, what I would say to people is why don’t we flip the question?  It’s not about us, what we do, what we wear, what we think, what our politics are, what our dreams are - the question is, why is he doing that?  Why?

KH:  Yeah.  

TR:  The question is about the person perpetrating whatever that is. Like, what is the pattern, and why are they doing that?  Modify the behaviour.  And I know they’re trying to get Biden to modify his behaviour, over and over.  I mean, it’s obvious, like, who he is.  I - and I’m hoping by coming forward with this, and I know it’s hard to listen to, and it’s hard to live in it, right - but my justice now, the only justice I can have is to be moving freely in the world and to heal - and not be silenced.  

One of the things I talk about being silenced is when  people say, oh, why didn’t you come forward?  Well, I tried. I went to media outlets, like the summer, and before January - nobody ever epreturned my call, not one.  I went, my - I went to Warren, I wrote a letter to her, and I was supportive of her becoming president, I would have loved to have seen a woman president - like I wrote her what hap - not - I eluded to it, I didn’t write details, but I wrote there’s something wrong here, and like wrote about it - no response, except a form letter to contact my local representative.  I wrote Kamala Harris, I wrote AOC, none of  - not one person.  I wrote celebrities, I wrote MeToo, I wrote um, Ronan Farrow, I wrote The New Yorker, New York Times, Washington Post.  And so I want people to know this - it’s not that easy to get your story heard.  Not one person answered me, not one.  Elizabeth Warren was the only one, and that was a form letter. 

And I felt so alone and isolated, and the only thing that would happen is once in a while, when I would try to put it out like on Twitter, like saying, hey, this is wrong, I’m being called a Russian agent, this happened -  Biden’s supporters would just write, would say again, you’re a Russian agent, you’re a bot, would just write - would say again, you’re a Russian agent, you’re a bot.  Yeah, and I - it’s -  being silenced about sexual assault and sexual harassment, it’s like - it’s like a slow death,  you know?  

KH:  Uhum.

TR:  And, I’m not gonna let it, I am not gonna let this take me down.  I think by shining light on it.  I - some people will say it didn’t happen, and that they don’t believe me, and I don’t care.  The people that need to hear it will, and the survivors that are being silenced that are out there will hear it, and they’ll know, okay, we can do this.  We can do this.  And so I’m telling you, do this - shine light on it.  The last thing people want, when they abuse, is to be examined - they don’t want that.  

KH: Yeah, it’s interesting, so yeah, it’s like a different level - so there’s the silencing of someone just like your generic run of the mill, sadly totally predictable silencing of victims, survivors, and then there’s this other thing where it’s like now it’s a political thing, so you’re now not just ignored, but you’re like smeared as, and I guess this is what always happens, it’s just a question of how people are smeared.  

Tr:  Yeah, almost like McCarthyism, or whatever, and that’s before a lot of people’s time, and before both of our times, but people lost their careers, and in fact I did, too, like, and retaliation is common from abusers um, but he used his staff, he used his power, he weaponised it, and that’s what’s really ugly, as far as like, you know, like not only did he weaponise it when - I was his employee and they retaliated, that’s against the law - like besides like,  put aside everything else, that was against the law, the retaliation and what they did to me.

I don’t even know where to go from here, except that for my own sanity and peace, it’s now for the generation behind me, other people, I’m gonna take the heat., and believe me, no-one on the right likes me.  You know, I - I kind of expected trolls or whatever, that’s not, like, I mean that hurt and then it got a little scary, right, like I got scared.  They call it, and I found out, because I didn’t know this, but it’s called doxxing.

KH: Doxxing, yeah.  

TR:  Well, they found out where I lived.  

KH:  How? And what did they do?

TR:  Oh, because someone had said they were coming to my house, and like, they were threatening me on the phone.  

KH:  Did they mention where you live, like were they right?  

TR:  yeah. He said, I know you live in [redacted], you know we’re coming - you’re a traitor, you’re a traitor.  You better get Putin to protect you. I mean like that.  And they said crude stuff to me, and I can’t remember some of it, and then I saved one email that was like a threat. You know, I,  at first I was just like whatever,  I just like wanted it away from me,  now I’ll document it better, but I just, like I don’t - I’m not - I have a law degree but I don’t practice law, and I’m into - I help non-profits, that’s what I do, I - um, and I’m an expert witness for Monterey County, for the domestic violence cases, um, and so I do that for a stipend, it’s almost like a volunteer thing.

KH: Uhum.

TR:  And that’s how I kinda channel this rage or energy is I - I - I give other - just help other people, huh?  It’s just - and I think that’s healthy like we all need to hear that right now because we’re all kinda feeling upset about what’s happening, as we really should, um, it’s a very hard time for a lot of people. Um, so, what I would say is just, you know, sometimes just immersing yourself in something different that has nothing to do with your own life, it helps.  

KH: Right.

TR:  It’s healing. 

KH:  Yeah, it’s true, it’s like a anti-depressant to help others. 

TR:  And restorative justice is just not always possible and what I’m hoping is that we can get to a place where sexual harassment and sexual assault is not such a stigma, where it’s difficult to talk about, and that there can be restorative justice.  It doesn’t take ninety women in forty years to get someone, right.  

KH:  Right.

TR:  Or if you’re, if you’re in a workplace where it’s happening you can speak up, and you’re not going to lose your whole career, where a man doesn’t have the power to do that, or a woman - there are male victims.  

KH:  And women victims or women, too.  Okay, and anything else that you wanna make sure you say.  Do you wanna share that thing which you said, like, I don’t want to say what he said, that thing he said to you? 

TR:  Umm.  -  Yeah.  I can - guess I could.  

KH:  I mean, you don’t have to.  

TR:  It’s okay, it’s just, um, it’s almost like giving a weapon to them.

KH: How so?

TR:  Well, it’s like, I don’t want them to know how much it hurt.  I don’t

KH: Mmm.

TR:  I don’t want him to know - when they, I don’t know, yeah.

KH: Yeah.  Like that you remembered it?  

TR:  Yeah - but, uh, yeah, I can say it.  Um.  So how do - do you want me to go back and - how do you want me to - ?

KH:  Well, yeah, you just mentioned that there was something he said to you that you didn’t want to say.

TR:  Yeah, there was something he said that I didn’t want to say, and I didn’t want to say it because it’s the thing that stays in my head.  

KH:  Mmm.

TR:  Over and over, like, like - and um, it’s a thing that - kinda stayed with me over the years, but he said, um - when he had me against the wall, after he’d done, after I’d pulled away, and he’d said, “Hey”, you know, “come on, heard you liked me” - and I, um, knew he was angry, right after he took his finger - he just like pointed at me, and he said, “You’re nothing to me.” and then he just looked at me and he goes, “You’re nothing, nothing.”

And then I must have reacted.  I think he only said it twice - but - I - but I just heard the word “nothing”, and  - and I must have reacted because that’s when he took me by the shoulders, and he said, you know, “You’re okay, you’re fine - you’re okay.”  

But then afterwards like, it kept replaying in my head, and like last April, when all that stuff came out -  I got really, really sad about it, and -  the thing that I remember most, almost more than the assault itself was just being told that I was nothing.  And he was right.  That’s how people treated me, that’s how the office treated me, and I have no platform, I am no-one, and to him, I’m nothing.  

So, yeah.  Oh, so, people want to know why women don’t come forward.  That’s a good example why and I’m just trying to get past it, trying to feel -  like I have spent most of my life hiding from powerful men, be it my abusive ex-husband later, or Joe Biden, and I am now at the point where I just, I’m done, like I don’t want this to be someone else’s life.  I don’t want my life to be someone else’s life, and that’s a really hard thing to say.  

KH:  Mm.

TR:  But I don’t want someone to live what I went through because it was hard, and it was empty, um - with no justice, and I don’t want some bad to be repeated, I want for me restorative justice would be for someone to be able to come forward- um, and have healing.

And I know there’s a lot of pain around sexual assault, it’s confusing, but my mom, really, was a wonderful person and that she -  helped me through a lot, um, about explaining about it not being related to sex as much as power.  And you know, um, that was really important, because I was able to not internalise that part of it later, as I matured, and um, that’s important for people to hear, you know, that are going through this, or have gone through this.  And the other part, the self-esteem part, that’s just, you know, you have to rebuild that, right, and it takes time, and sometimes it’s not a linear process.  It’s -  you feel great, and then you don’t, you feel great, then you don’t, but um - you can’t - other people’s vision of you can’t be internalised like that.  So I learned a lot about not internalising other people’s stuff, and um, it seems like people like Biden, powerful people like that, or just people that engage in that behaviour seem very good at deflecting and not internalising anything, and if you’re kind of the opposite, or empathic - empathic and you’re like wanting to help people - if you’re an empathetic person it has a deep effect, like what people say.  It can really impact you, you know, words are like arrows, they find their mark, and um, you know, in my case - the words he said to me found their mark - he made me feel like it was my fault, he made me feel like I was insignificant, and that I had no power - and I look back at that, and I see him talking about running on a platform of character, and I just want to scream - like, I want to scream.  How dare you?  How dare you talk about all the things you’ve done for women, when I know who you are, I see you, I experienced you, and that’s not who you are.

And um, yeah, it is just time for all of this to stop. So, you know,  people, I’m not trying to say all this - and people are going to say, well, why come out now?  Well,  I’ve been trying,  and no-one’s been giving me a platform, so thank you - for allowing me to speak on your show, and um, I appreciate that, because I have tried - so, so, if for saying that, I’ve been trying for a while.

KH:  Well, thank you so much, Tara

TR:  Thank you.

Analysis Conclusion:

The subject reliably reported the sexual assault.  It is likely that on the details of what happened, she would pass a polygraph.  

The subject gives indication of possible infatuation with Biden and disappointment and/or humiliation at being objectified by him. She may have expected a relationship with him. She is unified with him, as evident in the use of the word "we", including a parathentical view (recounting), yet specifically about being alone.  This suggests the subject may have been flattered by the attention.  She may have even been excited about it, with expectation of being heard and taken seriously politically by Biden, and not expecting the physical contact to take place. 

The age, status and  sophistication disparity likely played a role in what happened. 

The subject may have sought his attention, including by her appearance and may have had feelings of jealousy towards other women Biden may have noticed. 

Motive for reporting:

The subject likely has mixed or competing motives for making this information public now,  including humiliation, a desire to be known or recognized, as well as deep disappointment due to perceived  provocation in Biden's recent (campaign) claims of progressivism, particularly of women.  His claims may have infuriated her. 

The subject is concealing information regarding  her emotions, particularly when Biden "left" her after the event. 

The bitterness remains, which likely includes emotion about how she handled it, and how her superiors handled it. 


Given the age, status and sophistication disparity, the subject is very sensitive about her initial filed report, as well as dealing with what she likely considers tangential issues by media that may seek to provide cover for Biden. 

The event, itself,  is reported without qualification, suppression or posturing.  Before the event is guided (contaminated) by the interviewer, as is most of the interview.  

She was, and is, very concerned about her reputation.