Radio Interview notes
In the disappearance of Katelyn Markham, John Carter is indicated for deception. Here is an interview he gave on radio 6 days after calling 911.
The interviewers do a very poor job interviewing him as they are more prone to making statements and asking compound questions instead of seeking information, yet analysis of his answers indicate deception.
Statement Analysis shows that he is withholding information about what happened the night he left Katelyn Markham's apartment. Please see prior analysis of the 911 call.
Statement Analysis is in bold type.
JC: Um... Not - not too good.
TJ: John, let me ask you, when was the last time you saw Katelyn?
JC: Um, I uh, saw her at her house, at uh... on Saturday night.
SS: Last Saturday night. And you thought nothing of it, it's like, "Love ya, see ya later." What was the last communication you had with her? Did you speak to her on the phone?
Compound questions should be avoided. Here the interviewer suggests a response for him. He should have asked, "What happened?" and is why journalists must be trained in legally sound interviewing.
Regardless, the question is about what it was like when they were together:
JC: No, I, uh... she had sent me a, a few text messages after I left her house.
1. Pronouns are never wrong. Pronouns are instinctive. We use them millions of times, and since childhood.
2. He avoids telling us what was said or what happened between them when he last saw her. This indicates that the question, itself, is sensitive. He does not want to tell us what happened when he las saw her.
3. "Left" Sensitive in Statement Analysis.
Leaving of her house is very sensitive to the subject. At this point in his language, he is not home, but is "leaving" her house: Missing Information. For the subject, it is not where he went, as accounts move forward in the brain. Here, he is stalled at the house. This is why there is missing information precisely here. Something happened between them before he left her house.
Consider “text messages” as a “person” in criminal analysis---- the communication is important to him .
TJ: Mmm.
JC: Um, just, just a few things about, uh, some things she wanted me to do for her. She, she was consistently busy, so I had to help her do a lot of things.
1. Things "she wanted me" to do. Note the lack of unity. Note the missing pronoun "we" between them. Was he annoyed?
2. Here we have the explanation as to why he did something, upon leaving. Here is the area of missing information from John Carter that is directly related to the disappearance of Katelyn Markham. These are two sensitivity indicators very close together.
3. "She was consistently busy..." is to reference her, missing, in the past tense. Is she no longer busy?
When one references another in the past tense while missing, police should seek to learn why the subject believes the missing person is dead.
SS: And all of a sudden you don't hear from her. When - at what point did you think, maybe there's a problem?
The interviewer should avoid making assumptions as well as compound questions. The interviewer is feeding information that is likely untrue. We should be careful how we word our questions as we may teach the subject how to lie.
JC: Um... well uh, after I went home, I sent her a good morning text message. And then I woke up the next day, and normally she sends me a good morning text message... um, but at - you know, like - she sends me something back saying thank you, and all that stuff, but - um, she didn't, uh, send anything. But that - that didn't entirely worry me, I just thought maybe she was busy or something, or she just woke up late for work or something. But then uh... you know, there was just, uh... I sent - she sent me, uh - or then I sent her a few more text messages, no response, and all that stuff, and uh...
Note the pronouns, "I sent, she sent me, or then I sent..."
Note the greeting text message sent which may be used to appear as if he expected a response, yet he uses the word "normal", a linguistic signal that it was anything but normal.
Note he reports what he did not "entirely" worry about, in the negative (it "didn't) making it sensitive.
Pronouns don't lie. Note "I sent, she sent me, or then I sent..." as a confusion of pronouns.
Note "no response" has dropped pronoun.
"All that stuff" shows that there were more things going on in the mind of the subject other than just "no response." This is a critical time for him; one that he reports in the negative.
Carter is unconvincing about his own emotions above. This suggests that his past tense reference, indicating knowledge or belief that she was dead, is accurate.
SS: And when she didn't show up for work to her job, then, then - then you knew something clearly was going on.
The interviewer does not ask questions, but leads him with information. This impacts the response. It allows the subject to enter the Interviewer's language (reducing stress), and can actually teach a subject how to lie. This is an important interview and it is bungled.
JC: Um, actually I had a feeling something was going on when I, uh, saw her car in the parking lot. And, and I went up to her room, and her purse and keys were still there.
TJ: Wow.
SS: Wow.
TJ: John, what do you think happened? Do you suspect foul play?
The first question was best.
JC: I - I really don't know. Um, I've been asked this question a lot, and I really, I just have no idea. I, I couldn't tell you. Um. I have the strongest, uh, thought that she would not run away. I mean there's no reason for her to go anywhere. But other than that, I have no idea what could have possibly happened to her.
1. The one pronoun that we in the English language are most proficient using is the pronoun "I" as we use it millions of times. We are efficient at using the pronoun I so that when the subject stutters on it (as a non stutterer), it is an indication of anxiety. We look to see what it is that produces the subject’s entrance (the pronoun “I” shows psychological presence) and when it returns to its baseline.
Note the stutter on the pronoun, "I", one of the most practiced words in the English language. This shows an increase in tension. Note that he stutters on it twice, indicating anxiety.
2. Note that he does not say, "I don't know" but that the "really" don't know; indicating that he does know "really" something.
3. He has "no idea" but then says he has the "strongest thought" that she did not run away, making "no idea" untrue.
Note the sentence: "I have not idea what could have possibly happened to her" has the additional word "possibly" added.
TJ: Mm. It's kinda strange that Katelyn would leave without her keys, right? Did she leave her cell phone as well?
Better to ask if anything else was there
JC: Uh, yeah. She had her cell phone on her, apparently.
Um, to this day I still call it, just hoping that maybe she'll answer at some point in time, or something like that.
Additional words are those which may be removed from a sentence while allowing the sentence to remain being complete. These are added words in which additional information is gleaned.
"To this day I call it hoping she'll answer" is the shortest sentence. Short sentences are best for truth.
a. "still" is to show exasperation
b. It has only been 6 days since he reported her missing. The word "just" is used in comparison and reduction.
c. "maybe" is reducing commitment to hope
d. "at some point"
e. "in time"
f. "or something"
g. "that"
All these words (particularly points c through g) reduce commitment. It shows that he knows that there is no hope that she will answer. He adds words in an attempt to persuade which will have the opposite effect.
Like the person who says they are "very, very, very, very happily married" is headed for divorce, the need to persuade within a single sentence can belie the persuasion and indicate deception.
SS: What's really unusual about this too, John, is that the car, keys, that's unusual - but the purse!
JC: Yeah.
The journalist made a point that the subject agreed with. What is the cause?
SS: I don't know any woman who doesn't take their purse with them. When women go to the bathroom - when women are - wherever they are, they have their purse with them at all times. For her just to take her cellphone may indicate to me, and possibly the police as well, that there was some foul play here, because certainly she's not going to you know, go somewhere. Even if she decided, you know, "I want to leave and start another life," usually you're going to take something with you that's personal in nature.
Interviewer's speech allows Carter to simply agree and enter into SS' language.
JC: Yeah. Exactly. And the thing is, is um... she had sent me a picture of a picture of her, that her boss took of her from her internship. I mean she had two jobs and her internship, and went to school full time. So I mean, she was consistently busy, but that stress made her stronger. I mean, she loved the fact that she was being so strong, and, and she was proud of herself. I mean, there was no, there was no anger [ laugh], at all, when it came to, to high stress. Um...
Here is a past tense reference by Carter indicating belief or knowledge that she is dead. At the time of this interview, she was only missing for 6 days and police had not revealed any details to cause anyone to conclude that she was dead.
Since he claims to the contrary, this is a significant point in his answer that should lead police to ask through steadily building questions, how he knows she is dead.
Did they argue over her busy schedule? Not enough time for Carter?
SS: Right. John Carter's with us, John Carter the fiancé of Katelyn Markham. Katelyn's been missing from Fairfield now for, um, it'll be a week tomorrow. And you're encouraged if you have any information to call Fairfield police as they continue to investigate this. I believe from what I understand, she was going to graduate from the Art Institute of Cincinnati sometime in the next 30 days, 45 days... September... she works at David's Bridal, so she has the two jobs there... You guys were planning to move out of state, in the late fall, early winter of this year and get married, right?
JC: Well, uh, we weren't going to get married until way after we moved out. Um, I mean, I wasn't rushing anything. I mean neither one of us wanted to. The original plan was to actually leave in October, but then my brother was coming into town, so she and I suggested to just wait until after he came in town, so we decided to postpone it till November; and she could have easily have said, "I just don't want to go," and I would have been totally fine with that. There was no - you know, we weren't forcing it. You know, we weren't trying to do anything we couldn't handle.
Note critical points:
"We weren't going to get married" instead of "We're not going...." then we have a change from the important pronoun, "we" to the "I" about himself: This is an indicator of stress and tension. He mentions that he wasn't rushing anything, dropping the "we" that existed about not getting married. There was likely disagreement here.
Note "we" weren't getting married also changes to "she and I" before returning to “we” --- this is an important change in language that does not flow naturally. He separated himself from here at this point.
Then he said that this was only "suggested" and that "she could have easily have said" giving a strong indication that they had a disagreement about getting married. This is another indicator (see previous analysis) that the night that Katelyn was last with him, there was an altercation and an argument between them. Here he tells us what she "could have" said and he would have been "totally fine" with it. He does not say that this is what she said.
This is a clear point of contention.
Note that he reports what they "weren't" trying to do. Most people report what they try to do. This is very important information related to Katelyn's disappearance.
TJ: John, how long have you guys, uh, been together?
JC: We've been together for six years.
TJ: Oh, that's a solid relationship right there.
Volatile relationships do go on for years.
It is foolish for interviewers to make such statements, rather than ask questions.
SS: How - where did you guys meet?
JC: Actually, my sister had met her on MySpace when I was in high school and she was in high school, and she called me and told me, "Hey, I met this pretty girl, you want to come over and meet her too?" And I was like, "Oh sure, yeah, why not," and I wound up meeting her, and you know, I guess... as they say, the rest is history.
"Actually" means a comparison of two or more thoughts. We don't know what he is comparing in his mind, but it is something, to meeting on Myspace. Perhaps in contrast to Katelyn meeting someone at work, like her boss, in the picture, that is mentioned above. Was this a point of contention?
"the rest is history" is a strange phrase to use while a fiancé is missing. "history"—is past. There was also a use of this as a phrase of young people at the time--- “you’re history”; that is, a relationship is over.
SS: Yeah, and you've been an item ever since. What are the reaction, because they've been rather tight-tipped, of her family... How close is she to her mom and/or dad, if either one -
If there was domestic violence, this interviewer is not going to ask, instead concluding how "solid" an "item" they were. Unfortunate.
JC: She - she was very close to both of them. Um, she really, like, she really loved her parents very much and, um, they loved her back. I mean, they, they - actually she's adopted, and they had adopted her, and I mean... they, they really loved her. Very mu - Er, they still love her. Of course.
Past Tense Reference. Does she no longer love her parents?
John Carter shows knowledge that Katelyn is dead, and even changes his language as he became aware of what he has just said.
TJ: John, Katelyn sounds like such a nice girl. Did she have any enemies, uh, ex-boyfriends, anything like that?
JC: No. I mean, she had an ex-boyfriend, but I mean, he was - you know, six years. We've been together for six years. I mean, that's - that's high school stuff, you know?
SS: Yeah, okay. And, and as far as police go, I'm sure they have talked to you extensively, as other family members have. No suspects have been - they're obviously still treating this as a missing person - do they have any suspicions one way or the other if it's foul play, or she left on her own volition?
JC: Um, well I, uh I mean the news has really been getting - the media has been getting more information than I'm getting, um, uh. And they, they, I've heard that they were saying that, the police were saying that it was foul play, and then I'm hearing that's there's no signs of foul play. So I really, I, I don't know. I mean, I was the one who called in the police, and I was the one who was the first one to realize that she was gone. Um, and I was in her room, I, I saw - like, I immediately went to her room when I was thinking, you know, "Oh my God, she might be gone" - and it didn't - it looked like she literally had disappeared. Like just, like nothing seemed messed up, nothing seemed awry, really, and -
Please note, that even without the understanding of Statement Analysis, that John Carter has a reason, only 6 days from her "disappearance" to justify himself.
Note that he did not "call police" but "call in police", as in to a situation. Here he attempts to portray himself as not having "done it", yet he never says he did not cause her disappearance.
Note "immediately" as an additional and unnecessary word.
Note his change of sentence: he begins with the negative, "it didn't", but stops himself and reports in the positive.
*He did not say "she disappeared" but only that it "looked like she literally had disappeared"; as there is a difference. Lying causes internal stress and it is avoided whenever possible.
SS: Where was she the last time - I know you said you had texted each other, you had texted her, there was no response, you had talked the night before. Um, the last time anyone saw her physically was when?
JC: Uh, I saw her at 11 o'clock. Or between 11 and and 11:30 last night. Or, last night, I'm sorry - um, Saturday night.
We note the appearance of "I'm sorry" in any form as a possible indicator of guilt. That it should come in to his language, given the deception, may be due to the internal guilt he feels over what happened, or possibly his deception to the interviewer. He is “sorry” in the lesser context of last seeing her. This is likely the latency language of regret, as it follows not hearing from law enforcement, “foul play” and the need to self justify: “I was the one who called…”
SS: Last Saturday night.
JC: Yeah.
TJ: That Saturday night, did she seem distracted, did she seem like something was on her mind?
JC: Not at all.
TJ: Nothing?
JC: Totally normal night.
When someone uses the word "normal" it is a strong indicator that the night was anything but normal. Not only was it not "normal" it was "totally" a unique night.
SS: And you had plans, and said "Hey, I'll see you tomorrow, or I'll talk to you tomorrow, hey, good luck at work tomorrow..."
JC: Absolutely.
SS: That whole thing, and sometime in that point ... I know, and we'll play the 911 call here in a little bit here, you had mentioned that I think the Sacred Heart festival's going on up the street, and you seemed to indicate to the dispatcher that maybe something was go - I mean, had she planned to go to that festival, or - ?
JC: No, she wasn't planning on going. I mean, she was pretty much exhausted every night. We had actually went Friday, and she didn't even really want to go Friday, but I, uh, I just was like, "Let's just go ahead and go, because it's not going to be every day that we have this festival"... and we used, we went every year, I mean since we first started dating we've gone every year. And I don't know, I just kinda... the only reason why I brought it up when I called the police was because, I mean, there's so many different kinds of people there, it's not just you know, Catholics and things like that, it's all walks of life that go to that festival.
Recall that he has "no idea" yet he did have an idea, which he defends, when he attempted to blame someone attending the festival. This debunks the statement of having "no idea" what happened to Katelyn.
Note the disagreement as she did not "really" want to go Friday. Note the need to explain why he told this to police. He is seeking to move the topic of her disappearance away from him and towards others.
SS: Well, if you're from Cincinnati, you know you go to church festivals, even if you're not Catholic - it's just what people, what Cincinnatians do in the summer... and yeah, I think that's probably true to a degree... you just, when you have a large group of people, you certainly - you know, it draws a mixed crowd.
JC: Yeah. It's gotta be one out of however many people is a bad person, you know?
TJ: John, you think something happened with that festival, huh. That maybe someone saw her at the festival?
JC: Honestly, at the time I did, but maybe it had nothing to do with it. Maybe this person had been monitor-... or, or, you know - if - if she was taken, maybe this person had been watching for a long time. I mean, they had to have known that she was going to be home alone, they had to have known, um, you know, when she was going to be home alone, and when I was going to leave, or, or what have you.
Note "honestly" as a signal that he may not have been "honest" in the interview, and what he is going to say, he really wants believed. What is it that he really wants believed? The "person".
Note "this" shows closeness
Note "person" is gender neutral. Would he think a female did this? Not likely. Using gender neutral is more likely related to wanting to hide the gender of the guilty. Guilty people do not like to point to themselves; they already have an acute sense of being noticed.
Note "if she was taken" contradicts the "no idea"
Note that having "no idea" is also debunked by the repetitive (sensitive) "they had to have known"
This gives the appearance of a deliberate tangent.
SS: Yeah. And you said you last saw her maybe 11, 11:30 Saturday and she was tired, she's going to go to bed -
JC: Mmhmm.
SS: Did the bed look like it was slept in at all, when you went over?
JC: Yeah, I mean - she doesn't typically make her bed, so it was just - it always looks a little messy.
SS: Eh, who does. Yeah. So she may have - so, all right, something obviously happened - if she had slept in the bed - something - someone may have knocked at the door, she may have gone somewhere, um -
JC: Yeah.
SS: And this is just such an interesting - obviously in a sad way, but very interesting circumstances in how, how she disappeared. Uh, Fairfield police, how've they been working with?
JC: Um, the Fairfield police have actually been pretty good. Um, they, they've - they're getting less sleep than I am, I feel like. Um, they, you know, I - they called me at 10 o'clock last night to come in and help them out, and I'm just, I'm willing to do whatever I can, and give them whatever I can to, to help them. Um, they've been really great, they've brought in other investigators, um, federal investigators even, and it's just been - they've been really helpful.
Note complimentary attitude towards Fairfield police uses the word "actually", indicating that he is comparing them to something else. This is a form of manipulation where the subject is experiencing mixed emotions. He may resent them because he hears of “foul play” but is praising them for not finding her body.
Note the unnecessary "I'm willing to do whatever I can" with "whatever" repeated, making his cooperation to police something sensitive to him.
Note "whatever I "can" indicates limitation. He is limited in what he can give them.
Please note: He is praising police and federal investigators while they are unsuccessful. This is not expected by one who wants the missing person found, and is manipulative. We expect growing frustration, even anger, day by day, with searchers as the subject’s concern is the missing person. After a very long period of time, when hope no longer exists, the innocent subject has accepted and has grieved the death. It is then that the subject may express thankfulness for the efforts. Here, he is manipulative, instead.
TJ: John, have they questioned anybody else besides yourself?
JC: Yeah. Um, they've actually called all known associates, um, as far as I know, um. I have a lot of support from friends and family, and they've been coming over and telling me that the police called them, the police called them, and so on -
Note that he has a lot of support from "friends and family" but not from the police, who are "losing sleep"
This is an uncomfortable part for him, as he is admitting here that police have been asking questions about his background, personality, etc, of his friends, who are calling him and telling him that the police are asking about him. This is completely lost on the interviewer who could have asked him what they were asking his friends but did not:
SS: Right. And they're talking to neighbors, because you said she lives in an apartment, so everyone there has been questioned when they did their canvassing through the neighborhood too, and - and as far that concern - they have not ruled - they haven't basically ruled anyone out as a suspect, I'm assuming.
JC: No, not at all.
SS: Now did they tell you that while you are not being considered as a suspect, you haven't been ruled out? Because you were the last one to see her.
JC: Yeah. I mean yeah, yeah. I mean, and I - I - when I - even before - like, as soon as I - I don't know. As soon as the police were involved, I knew that I was going to be considered a suspect. It's always going to be, you know, the, the last person to see her, and/or the closest person to her. So, I mean, I'm the one who sees her every day. I mean, you can't just rule out anybody, you know?
Note the stuttering "I" indicating tension and anxiety. Note the stutters are closer together on the one word in which a non-stuttering person should have no trouble with, since it is used by us, millions of times. Being a suspect in her disappearance produces anxiety in him; more than about her missing. His psychological presence in these sentences are about him; not Katelyn.
Is he the last person to see her? What about the kidnapper?, the "person" from the crowd he referenced earlier?
SS: Right. On that note, John, because we've seen cases like this, um - do you have an attorney? Did you decide to get a lawyer?
JC: Um, I don't need a lawyer, because I did not do anything.
Please note that this is a very sensitive statement. Here, he explains why he does not need a lawyer, but is not able to bring himself to say he did not "do it"; only that he did not do "anything", which is vague.
TJ: Good for you, John. Good for you. You've got nothing to hide, right?
SS: And I'm not insin- John, I'm not, believe me, I'm not insinuating you are, but I'm just saying that -
In spite of the two hosts assertions, here is another place for Carter to say "I didn't cause Katelyn's disappearance", using her name, his own pronoun, "I" (without stuttering) and specifically address her disappearance.
JC: Oh, no no no, I - and I understand that. But I had a lot of family members come to me and say, "You should get a lawyer, you should get a lawyer," and I'm like, "No, there's no reason for me to, I didn't do anything."
Note the repeated "no", as well as the "I", stuttered with the word "and"
Note that he only repeats his unreliable denial; quoting himself with "I'm like..." rather than issuing a reliable denial.
TJ: Good for you. John, I appreciate your courage doing something like that and coming on these airwaves, I mean, it's, uh -
JC: Yeah, I'm just trying to do everything I can to make sure that Katelyn's name gets out there, and that more people hear her name and see her face, and so on.
Note the lack of stuttering "I" here. He is with media and promoting her name. He is comfortable doing this, as he can present himself as a “good guy”-------- this need to control perception of him not only shows his priority and his comfort level, but he does not address what Katelyn may be going through.
Note everything "I can" indicates limitation. Would you feel "limited"? What limits him? Time? Ability? Consequence?
SS: Sure. We're as you know a pretty big radio station, we've got a lot of people listening. And John, I just want to pass out, to pass on the, you know, if you were at the festival last weekend, if you're in Fairfield or in that neighborhood, go online to our website at 700WLW.com, take a good look at Katelyn's picture, maybe you saw her, maybe you - you know, help police, help them fill in the blanks. And if you know anything whatsoever, just give Fairfield police a call, and I'm sure that information will come in a lot, uh, very helpful.
TJ: And John, I'd keep trying that cellphone.
The topic introduced here is the cellphone. He goes back to stuttering as there is an increase in anxiety:
JC: Yeah, I, I, I will. And I also wanted to announce that um, tonight at uh, 7 pm we're going to do a vigil, um, and, and, uh, and it's going to be at Fairfield West Baptist Church on Muskopf Road, and anyone's invited. At 7 pm.
The stuttering "I" is repeated and it is heavy, indicating acute anxiety for Carter. The “cellphone” is sensitive.
SS: Okay, Fairfield Baptist. Got it. We'll pass that on too. Hey John, I really appreciate you coming on, though it's difficult under these circumstances and our thoughts and prayers are with you. If you need anything or need to get some info out, I know you've got Pauly's number here, our producer, and we'll get you right on, buddy.
JC: Yeah, thank you very much.
SS: Give our best to the family too. We're thinking of them.
TJ: Thanks John.
JC: Thank you.
SS: All right, there you go.
TJ: It's tough.
SS: All right, you heard John Carter the fiance of Katelyn Markham, she's been missing for 6 days now out of Fairfield. And as far as what may have happened, there's a lot of speculation out there - you know, when a woman disappears, oranyone disappears, but a woman - she leaves behind her keys, she leaves behind her purse -
TJ: That's foul play right there.
SS: The only thing she had with her was her cellphone and she's not answering that right now, and simply walks away or disappears from a life that everyone around her seemed - uh, where she seemed to be happy, comfortable, and very pragmatic - clearly something's going on here that doesn't add up to someone maybe just leaving; or, maybe it does.
note that the interviewer uses the present tense, but did not catch John Carter's past tense references.
