Wednesday, June 19, 2019

London Bus Attack Statement








Last Wednesday, I had a date with Chris. We got on the Night Bus, heading for her place in Camden Town, climbed upstairs and took the front seats. We must have kissed or something because these guys came after us. I don't remember if they were already there or if they got on after us. There were at least four of them. They started behaving like hooligans, demanding that we kissed so they could enjoy watching, calling us 'lesbians' and describing sexual positions. I don't remember the whole episode, but the word 'scissors' stuck in my mind. It was only them and us there. In an attempt to calm things down, I started making jokes. I thought this might make them go away. Chris even pretended she was sick, but they kept on harassing us, throwing us coins and becoming more enthusiastic about it. The next thing I know is that Chris is in the middle of the bus fighting with them. On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up. The next thing I know is I'm being punched. I got dizzy at the sight of my blood and fell back. I don't remember whether or not I lost consciousness. Suddenly the bus had stopped, the police were there and I was bleeding all over. Our stuff was stolen as well. I don't know yet if my nose is broken, and I haven't been able to go back to work, but what upsets me the most is that VIOLENCE HAS BECOME A COMMON THING, that sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact. I'm tired of being taken as a SEXUAL OBJECT, of finding out that these situations are usual, of gay friends who were beaten up JUST BECAUSE. We have to endure verbal harassment AND CHAUVINIST, MISOGYNISTIC AND HOMOPHOBIC VIOLENCE because when you stand up for yourself s*** like this happens. By the way, I am thankful to all the women and men in my life that understand that HAVING BALLS MEANS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I just hope that in June, Pride Month, stuff like this can be spoken out loudly so they STOP HAPPENING!


II. Statement With Analysis to follow...

Last Wednesday, I had a date with Chris. We got on the Night Bus, heading for her place in Camden Town, climbed upstairs and took the front seats. We must have kissed or something because these guys came after us. I don't remember if they were already there or if they got on after us. There were at least four of them. They started behaving like hooligans, demanding that we kissed so they could enjoy watching, calling us 'lesbians' and describing sexual positions. I don't remember the whole episode, but the word 'scissors' stuck in my mind. It was only them and us there. In an attempt to calm things down, I started making jokes. I thought this might make them go away. Chris even pretended she was sick, but they kept on harassing us, throwing us coins and becoming more enthusiastic about it. The next thing I know is that Chris is in the middle of the bus fighting with them. On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up. The next thing I know is I'm being punched. I got dizzy at the sight of my blood and fell back. I don't remember whether or not I lost consciousness. Suddenly the bus had stopped, the police were there and I was bleeding all over. Our stuff was stolen as well. I don't know yet if my nose is broken, and I haven't been able to go back to work, but what upsets me the most is that VIOLENCE HAS BECOME A COMMON THING, that sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact. I'm tired of being taken as a SEXUAL OBJECT, of finding out that these situations are usual, of gay friends who were beaten up JUST BECAUSE. We have to endure verbal harassment AND CHAUVINIST, MISOGYNISTIC AND HOMOPHOBIC VIOLENCE because when you stand up for yourself s*** like this happens. By the way, I am thankful to all the women and men in my life that understand that HAVING BALLS MEANS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I just hope that in June, Pride Month, stuff like this can be spoken out loudly so they STOP HAPPENING!


III. Analysis Conclusion 

85 comments:

General P. Malaise said...

"Last Wednesday, I had a date with Chris."

the first line is often the priority and often the reason for the statement.
in SA we look for linguistic commitment and the statement to start with the pronoun "I". here we do not have that.
it beings with the element of time.
the subject linguistically distances herself from Chris with the word "with" as well as placing herself "I" and Chris at opposite ends of the sentence. this indicates distance between the two at the time of writing.

the opening line gives us distance and probable priority and several questions.
did the subject have issues with her "date" at the time, "Wednesday"?
why does the subject not give linguistic commitment to the opening line?
NOTE, the attack is not in the opening line, is the "date" the priority? did something go wrong on the "date" to precipitate the statement and the event?

John said...

OT:

Husband speaks out.

Full interview https://www.facebook.com/WBAYTV/videos/1262713073880409/

Investigation continues into disappearance of Outagamie County women

OUTAGAMIE COUNTY, Wis. (WBAY) - Investigators say they are following up all possible leads in the disappearance of a mother and daughter from Outagamie County.

Jill Rousseau, 55, and her daughter, Jordan, 21, have not been seen since Sunday, June 16.

Kelly Rousseau--the husband of Jill and father of Jordan--held a news conference Wednesday. He says that he believes his wife and daughter were abducted.

Rousseau says Jill and Jordan were last seen pulling into a storage facility in Menasha. At about 3:45 p.m., surveillance cameras captured Jill pull their Ford Expedition into the storage facility and back up. The tailgate opens. Kelly says nothing happened until they drove away from the facility about 15 minutes later, about 4 p.m.

The vehicle was seen turning right and traveling north on Racine, which becomes Valley Rd. Kelly Rousseau says that's the last known sighting of Jill and Jordan.

Kelly says he had been at a wedding out of town. He returned home at about 8:15 p.m. Sunday.

"Sunday when I got home--we live in the country and we have chickens--and when I got home I drove in the yard and there's chickens out in the yard. Which means to me that they were just going to run somewhere real quick and come back," Kelly says.

He recounted doing chores around the house. At 9:15 p.m., he became concerned.

"OK this is kind of odd. She [Jill] hasn't called me. She's not home yet. So then I called her and her cell phone rang in the house. And that all of a sudden, I went, that's kind of weird. She didn't take her cell phone," Kelly Rousseau says.

Rousseau says he found his daughter's phone on the couch. It was turned off.

He contacted the Sheriff's Office.

Investigators say they are looking into all the leads, but they do not know where the women could be.

"We have no indication that they were leaving for a trip. We have no indication that they were leaving unexpectedly, or that they were choosing to do this from obviously signs, obvious indicators out there. At this time, it just is, we're not sure where they went," says Sgt. Nathan Borman, Outagamie County Sheriff's Office.



Jill and Jordan are believed to be driving a 2011 Ford Expedition King Ranch. It has a maroon top and tan bottom. The photo in the story shows a similar vehicle.

It has a Wisconsin license plate number 650-PPM.

Borman says investigators are getting tips from across the country, but there are nothing leading them to the vehicle. He says it would be out of character for the women to leave without telling anyone.

"As two adults, you choose to leave, that's perfectly OK. My concern is, did they choose to leave? We don't know. We have no indicator to tell us that they did this voluntarily. They didn't contact any family and say hey, we're going out here for a little bit or we're taking a break or anything like that," Borman said.

If you have any information, contact Sgt. Mike Fitzpatrick at 920-832-5279. You can also contact the Outagamie County Dispatch Center at 920-832-5500. The incident number is 19-026089.

John said...

Re my OT. The amount of extraneous information he offers is staggering, something iv'e never come across before.

He goes on about chickens, futons, patches sewn on his trousers, tail gate of his car (x3)being able to protect you from rain, UPS stickers and on and on it goes. Describing his wife he uses one word "Analytical", is this subtle demeaning. There is so much information i wish i was a transcriber.

John said...
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John said...

(+)He does talk of his wife and daughter in the present tense.

(+)He does take ownership of both using the possessive pronoun "MY" (Throughout)

(+) He does use their names often (throughout).

(+) He says he doesn't care what LE ask him as long as they find them because that's their job.

There is so much said it is difficult to decipher what is and what isn't without a transcript.

sonjay said...

He uses the phraseology "she would...." quite a bit. As in, "she would fill up her car with gas every Friday." That's a type of past tense. That's the kind of wording you use about someone who isn't doing those things any more. But he does use plain old present tense a lot too.

He praises law enforcement at least a couple of times.

He visibly chokes up several times — and it doesn't look, to me, like it's fake. He seems truly thrown by them being missing. That's not part of SA, but still an observation and my opinion of it.

What a long, rambling statement with so much extraneous information! It's hard to follow. If Peter gets hold of a transcript and decides to analyze this, it'll take him months.

Katprint said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Katprint said...

I have a question about how lacuna gaps should be interpreted when the speaker may have sustained a head injury and may lost consciousness.

I know from my own experience that when I fell down the stairs and hit my head, my memory is that I was walking down the stairs then literally "the next thing I knew" is that I was on the floor at the foot of the stairs with my son holding an ice pack to my head while my husband was talking on the phone to 9-1-1. They said (and I believe them) that they heard me scream and then they heard me tumbling down the stairs but I don't remember any of that. They said that they got there within a few seconds and that I appeared to be conscious. My husband told the ER doctor that I asked them several times what had happened and that they told me several times but I only remember asking them one time and I remember them telling me one time. I have recovered as completely as I am ever going to but I have a memory gap from immediately before the fall to several minutes afterwards.

Hey Jude said...

Was the date the subject’s priority because it had been planned to fulfil what sounds like an agenda: “sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact.” ? That sounds like an agenda.

“Heading for her place in Camden Town” is to give the reason why they were on the bus, which could be seen as unnecessary - there is no need to justify or explain why they were on the bus.

They “must have kissed or something” - evasive/vague as to whether they engaged in behaviour which drew the attention of several youths who then also went upstairs on the bus. “after us” is repeated, while she also claims not to know if they were already there, or if they got on “after us”. Teenagers like to go upstairs on the bus - the subject’s perception is that they “came after us” - yet they may also already have been there.

“They started behaving like hooligans, “ - did they not continue?
“In an attempt to calm things down” - the reason why
“I started making jokes” - what stopped the joke telling? Were the jokes not funny?
“I thought this might make them go away” - more reason why. To where did she think they would go away? Why would jokes make them go away? Were they such bad jokes?

It was only them and us there. In an attempt to calm things down, I started making jokes. I thought this might make them go away.“
The subject and her date remained on the upper deck, rather than move downstairs as the situation escalated. Everyone knows to go downstairs if they don’t feel safe on the upper deck.

“The next thing I know” indicates missing information in regard to who started the fight.

“On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up. The next thing I know is I'm being punched.” This is unexpected - the reason she “went over there” was apparently not to help, but only to find her friend’s face bleeding and three of them beating her up. “I went over there” and “only to find” speak to time taken rather than to her instinctively jumping to defend her date. How long does it take, and how far does one need to travel on the top deck of a bus to discover one’s date being beaten up by not just one or two, but by three other passengers? Is it likely that she did not go immediately to her date’s aid?

“The next thing I know is I'm being punched.” More missing information. She also says “I don’t remember” which is often said by those who prefer to not share what they remember.

The fight was in the middle of the bus - rather than go down to the lower deck to ask for other passengers help, or alert the driver, she bypassed the stairs and joined in the fight. We can take her description as to what happened - there was a fight. Though she says she was punched, and that her date’s face was bleeding, she does not claim they were assaulted. This bears out her possible mission statement for Pride month: “sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact.”

Mission accomplished, I’d say.

I believe the youths were intentionally provoked, and that the “joking” may have been designed to further aggravate; it appears it was the date and then the subject who moved to the middle of the bus from the front rather than that the youths who approached her or them.











Hey Jude said...

It was awful that they got so messed up, and the photo was horrifying, but the statement does raise questions as to why there was a fight, and who started it.

This is the subject’s agenda - it’s also interesting that she describes the fight as “these situations” rather than say, as unprovoked assaults.: they are so common, yet she’s also just finding out that they are usual.

“....what upsets me the most is that VIOLENCE HAS BECOME A COMMON THING, that sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact. I'm tired of being taken as a SEXUAL OBJECT, of finding out that these situations are usual, of gay friends who were beaten up JUST BECAUSE. We have to endure verbal harassment AND CHAUVINIST, MISOGYNISTIC AND HOMOPHOBIC VIOLENCE because when you stand up for yourself s*** like this happens. By the way, I am thankful to all the women and men in my life that understand that HAVING BALLS MEANS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I just hope that in June, Pride Month, stuff like this can be spoken out loudly so they STOP HAPPENING!

Why is she talking about gay friends who were beaten up rather than herself, or also herself?

Having balls means being Martina Navratilova - they have deplatformed her, which is sad, as she’s always been the one with balls.


emma h said...

Possible deception indicators here include:

* NOT Starting Statement with "I"

* Incomplete social introduction of Chris - ie: author didn't say "My girlfriend, Chris"

* High sensitivity:
"I don't remember" was said three times by author in statement - this is unexpected as she should be telling us why she remembers - not what she doesn't remember

POSSIBILITY - she was drunk or taking mind altering substances -this appears in other contexts- such as author stating:
"I got dizzy...(at the sight of my blood)....and fell back" - why does the author need to tell us she was dizzy from the sight of her blood? Sensitivity here. No doubt, she got dizzy and fell back - but her need to explain WHY suggests deception here.

OTHER DECEPTION THAT STANDS OUT

1/ This was presented as an unprovoked attack throughout the whole statement

2/ Yet author states towards end "because when you stand up for yourself shit like this happens" - this directly conflicts with prior statements.

Summary
IN all likelihood, author has neglected to tell us the full story - ie: she was intoxicated and started the incident. Instead, she preferred to present a victim narrative to justify the injuries - leading her to have a more credible (ie: face saving) reason for missing work.

Tania Cadogan said...

I had a big temporal lacuna when i got a UTI which i didn't know i had which then attacked my kidneys. I remember telling my uncle who lives with me (i am his full time carer) that i felt a bit wobbly then next thing i remember is being pulled around, being freezing cold and in pain and horrible things being done to my fingers and someone trying to make me eat something vile. I kept my eyes closed the whole time.
( woke up in ICU 3 days later and what i felt them doing was bathing me, taking blood sugar pinprick tests and trying to feed me something almost like a syrup which tasted vile although i would barely tolerate ice cream or jello. They were brutal doing the finger prick tests and when i woke up properly my fingers were an interesting shade or purple. Apparently i was a tad combative as i was in a world of pain and not knowing where i was or what was going on.
My kidney function went down to 6% so i had tubes in both sides of my neck so they could dialyse me and tubes and wires everywhere else. I had some really interesting hallucinations regarding the room walls appearing to show different patterns according to the light when i was in that half awake state.
My uncle found me collapsed in a tight ball under the ironing board in my bedroom ( see i knew i had a use for it) he panicked and called my bro who one and a half leg hot footed it to my bungalow called 999(911 for the Americans here) because on my large fourposter bed blocking the way and how i was positioned, they had fun getting me out my room eventually resorting to putting me onto my throw and dragging me out my bedroom and into the sitting room, not having much look reviving me, my body temp dropped to 35 degrees and it did not look good till my bro started talking to me as they worked on me and that seemed to do the trick.
I was blue lighted to the local hospital with the trauma team on alert, they got me stable and then i was put in ICU ( i missed all the excitement) Bro bless him stayed with me the whole time (30 hours) and had his prosthetic leg on for almost 36 hours straight resulting in his stump getting a really nasty blister.
Once i sort of woke up i was awake but still a bit hazy along with the fun hallucinations so i kinda of knew where i was, i remember the feeling wobbly and then nothing till i woke up not feeling a happy bunny.
The 3rd day i woke up and felt fantastic although the tubes in either side of my neck especially the right side were frikken painful and after a whole bunch of tests and not needing dialysis they took the right side carbuncle as i called it out, the consultant was nice and we discussed options as he said if my kidneys decided to paly up again i would need to have it reinserted. I pointed out that i wouldn't have suggested removing it if i didn't feel confident i was over the worst. The other tube came out 2 days later along with a whole bunch of wires although the catheter stayed in. When i got transferred to the ward from ICU i felt better than ever although i was surprised my kidney function was still only12.5% and that although i could discharge myself , i agreed it would probably not be one of my better ideas.

Tania Cadogan said...

cont.

My kidneys are now back to 100%. It seems i developed sepsis and it was a bit touch and go for a couple days. Bro bless him took some photos as he knows what i am like when it comes to illness/operations/interesting diseases etc. he filled me in on what happened and what i missed and the nurses and consultants were also really good at answering my questions and general nosiness. Once i was feeling back to normal and my normal cheery self, every time a consultant or staff member went past my room they would smile and wave. I think the doctors and staff coming in once i was back to normal were expecting to see a frail, miserable and not well patient and then seeing bright and cheerful me. The senior consultant did say he hadn't seen such a massive turnaround and recovery from unconscious to wide awake and bright eyed and bushy tailed in the space of a couple of days.
All i can remember before my good morning world moment was the waking up to be bed bathed and feeling really cold, in agony (ME, Fibromyalgia, sciatica and 4 buggered lumber discs and 2 buggered thoracic discs requiring morphine, them trying to feed me something vile tasting but they claim nutritious and then having a couple teaspoons of ice cream or jello and some interesting decoration hallucinations. I was seeing ivy /jungle vines on the walls in certain light, a really nice garland of plants etc above the door and for some reason wondering why they had a huge sword painted on the wall (it was the hoist)and they had painted a big sword on the wall around it.
Once i had woken up properly and bro visited with his wife and my cousin had also come down to keep an eye on uncle and cats and sundry hedgehogs they all said i looked the healthiest i had in a long while, i replied good pain meds.
I was in hospital for nearly 3 weeks.
I said everyone else has had more than their fair share of hospitals and emergencies i wanted a shot as well, being as how the last time i was in hospital was 28 years ago. I wanted 2 weeks next September and maybe a weekend around Easter :)
I am just gutted i was out of it for the interesting ambulance ride and excitement.
I nearly died and didn't, yay me

John said...

Outagamie County Sheriff's Department
Yesterday at 11:27 AM ·

************Missing Mother and Daughter Found Safe**************
The missing mother and daughter from the Dale area have been found safe. Law enforcement is communicating with them and they are no longer believed to be in danger.
We greatly appreciate the outpouring of support from the community. Word spread quickly and the concern was clearly visible.
No further information can be released at this time.

-Sgt. Nathan Borman

https://www.facebook.com/OutagamieSheriff/?hc_ref=ARTmSSv11Rj7t03AmP8HEaA7r_ffp9mcuPdxDc67zNoaJSfznKrcH_6jisOoc4l5MFk&fref=nf&__tn__=kC-R

Anonymous said...

This is such a waste of Statement Analysis. English is not this woman's first language. Furthermore, five young people have been arrested for this assualt.

Take a break from being a bigot for awhile and get back to doing SA on unsolved murders and missing people.

Colin said...

" ( ) climbed upstairs" Does this indicate an increase in effort to get upstairs? If not injured or age related is this an indication of possible intoxication? The missing pronoun lacks commitment which intoxication could explain?

"Took the front seats". This is strong language. The front seats have been conquered. Again this could speak to intoxication.

All the missing information is raising the question did Chris throw the first punch?

Amanda said...

General overall opinion, is that they were both a few sheets to the wind, they were joking with other loud people and may have been kissing to say a big "eff you" sort of passive aggressive to these 'misogynists". Even wise cracking back to them, by the sounds of it. Then (pure speculation), sounds like the girlfriend got a bit cocky and what with alcohol and everything started to get physical (fourth wave feminism). The males hit back, the feminists who started the physical altercation claim victimhood (with an underlying agenda).

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't go that far in victim blaming. I do think they are deceptive about who started it, but what happened to them is completely uncalled for. Maybe they are deceptive because they blame themselves for their part or maybe because they afterwards found out it could be used for their agenda to present themselves as victims.

Anonymous said...

"All the missing information is raising the question did Chris throw the first punch?"

Well, she does say in an interview:"I didn't engage with them at all initially". Later she goes to the guy thowing coins at them and "fighting broke out".

Anonymous said...

Chris has written the following opinion piece in The Guardian (highlights in bold added by me):

On 7 June, characters from distant chapters of my life decided that my sudden trajectory into the headlines was an opportune time to reintroduce themselves, sending a torrent of misguided good vibes alongside the picture, asking had I seen it. Had I seen it? Had I seen it? Of course I had, as soon as it was taken.

I was weeping bitterly, head ringing in pain as I sat next to my lovely date, Dr Melania Geymonat, who was calmer than I but dripping blood down her shirt front. We photographed the trail of our blood down the bus, ending at our still-bleeding faces as we awaited the police. I watched in real time as our faces – white, feminine, draped in pretty hair – circulated on every continent. Melania protected my name and information because I am a private individual without an online presence.

I guffawed the first time I read the not-quite-accurate, titillating headline: “Lesbians beaten for refusing to kiss.” For starters, I’m bisexual, but that’s besides the point. My memories of the fight are addled by adrenaline. Maddeningly, I don’t remember exactly how it started. My persisting anger is directed not towards the idiots on the bus but the reduction of my battered face to cheap clickbait.

For several days, a graphic, triggering photo of our bloody faces satisfied voyeurs and enriched companies whose values counter my own, such as News Corps and Sinclair Broadcast Group. Many of the outlets publishing my face without permission endorse racist, misogynist and xenophobic platforms and politicians. One world leader on her last day in office concluded a long career voting in favour of anti-gay, racist, colonial policies by expressing her condolences to us. We were Instagrammed by celebrities, vacuously retweeted by politicians, itemized on a BuzzFeed listicle. Despite so much inane coverage, Melania energetically leveraged her platform to highlight the misogyny embedded in the violence and today’s hate crime rates. She has inspired queers everywhere to share their own stories of abuse.


Cont.

Autumn

Anonymous said...

A refrain I’ve heard ad nauseum is “I can’t believe this happened – it’s 2019”. I disagree. This attack and the ensuing media circus are par for the course in 2019. In both my native United States and here in the United Kingdom, it always has been and still is open season on the bodies of (in no specific order) people of colour, indigenous people, transgender people, disabled people, queer people, poor people, women and migrants. I have evaded much of the violence and oppression imposed on so many others by our capitalist, white supremacist, patriarchal system because of the privileges I enjoy by dint of my race, health, education, and conventional gender presentation. That has nothing to do with the merit of my character.

The press coverage, and timely law enforcement response, was not coincidental to our complexions. Neither was the disproportionate online reaction over the victimisation of a pretty brunette and blonde. The commodification and exploitation of my face came at the expense of other victims whose constant persecution apparently does not warrant similar moral outrage.

Make the extraordinary reaction to our attack the norm. I beg you to amplify and channel this energy to hold accountable the intersecting web of elected politicians, government agencies and corporations who have reinforced a status quo of clearly delineated inequality long before this single attack in 2019. Redirect your money from rainbow capitalism to people-of-colour-led organisations striving for justice. I donated to the Astraea Lesbian Foundation for Justice, Trans Women of Color Collective and Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund. Question why the photo of two attractive, white cisgender women compelled you to post about Pride for the first time.

Learn the names and stories of Muhlaysia Booker, Dana Martin, Chanel Scurlock. Elevate those who have been advocating for the basic rights and safety of communities marginalized by our existing political, economic and social structures long before I got punched in the face. Finding the right leaders takes some research and real-world activity. Their frequent absence from today’s headlines is not coincidental to their crusades. Stand up for yourselves and each other, and fight back.


Autumn

Hey Jude said...

^. Or just don’t snog in public - it’s not as if it’s necessary, or as if they are teenagers.

——

“ I beg you to amplify and channel this energy to hold accountable the intersecting web of elected politicians, government agencies and corporations who have reinforced a status quo of clearly delineated inequality long before this single attack in 2019.”

So it’s somehow the government’s fault when two grown women decide to scrap with a group of mocking teenagers on the upper deck of a night bus? She might be overestimating the significance of having got punched in the face. I think It would be more useful if she had said something like, be safe - use your common sense, especially on the night bus.

It’s not as if it’s necessary to snog in public - that’s maybe not unlike a need to persuade - it’s not even as if they were teenagers.

Some people think they should be free to do whatever they like these days and there should be a right that anything they choose to do should be without consequence - others of us wonder why some have no sense of decorum, or common sense, and won’t spare us their exhibitionism. Not everyone wants to celebrate random strangers kissing. or reacts with an eye roll at such displays. Interesting that all those who saw the photos are described as “voyeurs” ; readers don’t choose what makes the news. She and her date chose to “kiss or something” in a public rather than private setting, which was to invite ‘voyeurs’.

Of course boys should know not to hit women - but let’s see the cctv, and who hit who first.

Just my opinion - I think they made themselves victims, possibly at least one of them set out in order to do so, and that it was not beyond their ability to avoid.

Hey Jude said...

Tania - how awful, yet how fortunate they found you when they did. At least your hallucinations were okay, actually they sound quite pleasant. It must have been awful to wake and find yourself in hospital - but thank God for our NHS. I hope you continue in your good recovery, and that the hedgehogs did okay. :)

Anonymous said...

@hey jude

"Or just don’t snog in public"

Why not?

Unknown said...

Omg i could not agree with this any more. Perfectly said.

John said...

There is no doubt that an "altercation" (<< my word) took place. As readership pointed out, there is many Temporal lacunae (skip in time) this maybe due to possible intoxication. (pointed out) Speculation.

Anonymous Colin said...
" ( ) climbed upstairs" Does this indicate an increase in effort to get upstairs? If not injured or age related is this an indication of possible intoxication? The missing pronoun lacks commitment which intoxication could explain?

Hi, Chris

This is one of the first things i noticed, (Possible "intoxication" ) however, it ("intoxication") is subjective and not words used in the statement.

Alcohol impact memory:

Alcohol (in access, depending on ones constitution) can and does, not always, "distort" and reject recall when trying to remember what occurred.

Alcohol blackouts (no matter what has happened and your friends say, geez, F**k, you was off your cake last evening and show you VT on their phone, (photos etc) if you have a booze induced blackout (to the extreme) you could pass a Polly, because you don't have any sober (before the blackout) recall.

Anonymous said...

Them is lyin’ lesbians

Another job well done, Peter & crew!

Nothing gets by your deception detector!!!

Anonymous said...

Not a damn thing gets by it!

Excellent!!!

Willow said...

Hooligan is old world word used by eldrly persons.

The writer says chauvinist instead of chauvinistic.
"We have to endure verbal harassment AND CHAUVINIST, MISOGYNISTIC AND HOMOPHOBIC VIOLENCE because ..."

The photo and the text strike a pose, a parade of an ideology.
No hurry to stop the bleeding and take care of the possibly broken nose nor console the partner.

Anonymous said...

"A refrain I’ve heard ad nauseum is “I can’t believe this happened – it’s 2019”. I disagree. This attack and the ensuing media circus are par for the course in 2019."

Chris disagrees? That implies she has a choice between believing this attack did or did not happen (or could or could not have happened). Very weird, since she was the victim of this attack. At least that's their story. I agree with those who say that the couple (Chris?) may have initiated the physical altercation after verbal harassment by the boys. Also, both women avoid saying that it was the boys who punched them in the face. This in combination with the statement that “sometimes it’s necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact” made me wonder: did they themselves cause/aggravate the bleeding of their faces after the altercation with the boys? To make the abuse seem more severe? To further their agenda? It's probably not the case but I find it such an absurd thing to say ("sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding”), especially by someone who was just punched in the face to the point she was bleeding.

Interestingly, Chris states in her opinion piece that the headline Lesbians beaten for refusing to kiss is “not-quite-accurate”. She goes on to say “For starters, I’m bisexual, but that’s besides the point.” If it’s beside the point, why does she bring it up? Did she not like being called “lesbian” by the boys? Is that what started the argument? Also, if her not being a lesbian is beside the point, what is the real reason for the headline not being accurate? Chris also says she "maddeningly" (or is it: conveniently?) doesn’t “remember exactly how it started” and that her “persisting anger” is not directed towards the “idiots on the bus”. The word “idiot” seems too mild a description for someone who punched you in the face to the point of bleeding. And how can her anger not be directed towards these “idiots”? Why does she specifically mention she doesn't know how it started? Is that actually the crux of this story?

I think Chris in her opinion piece overemphasizes that she didn’t want her face in the public eye. Another thing I noticed is that she repeatedly refers to herself as pretty and attractive (which seems quite conceited) and says that their case got such overwhelming public attention because she and her date are pretty and white. Is she implying that non-white victims cannot be so pretty and therefore get less attention? Also: it's almost as if she is lecturing and scolding the public for paying attention to her case. How dare celebrities and world leaders show their support? Very strange i.m.o. Does she not think her case is worthy of support?

”In both my native United States and here in the United Kingdom, it always has been and still is open season on the bodies of (in no specific order) people of colour, indigenous people, transgender people, disabled people, queer people, poor people, women and migrants.”

So basically everybody is on the verge of being attacked in the US and the UK except for white men and boys? In that case: who is threatening to attack all these bodies? Only white men and boys? That would be a very bigoted statement (and also untrue, at least based on official US hate crime statistics).

“Question why the photo of two attractive, white cisgender women compelled you to post about Pride for the first time.”

Is she subconsciously urging us to question why she and/or her date felt compelled to make the photo public in the first place?

Autumn

Anonymous said...

Tania, what an ordeal! Waking up in hospital with painful tubes in both sides of your neck sounds really frightening. You seem like quite a trooper though. And what a blessing that your brother helped you so much despite his own pain. Three weeks in hospital is a long time. I was in the front of an ambulance recently and we just drove in the middle of both lanes. I’m told that lying on a stretcher in the back of an ambulance is not very comfortable though. Very bumpy (so you probably didn’t miss that much).

Autumn

General P. Malaise said...

"The next thing I know is I'm being punched."

note; "the next thing I know ..." this is temporal lacunae, TL. it is an indicator the subject has jumped over time omitting pertinent information.

note: the subject does not say who punched her, this is passivity. passivity is used to conceal identity and or responsibility. it is also presented in the present tense. this is a flag to possible deception.

follow the linguistic disposition toward the "attackers" it is neutral so in context positive.

Dominique said...

I think the girl in the white shirt beat the other girl up.

In fact I know she did.

It’s within her words.

Her own “bloody nose” looks more like blood from the other’s face that splattered onto her.

Anonymous said...

The blond haired girl’s face looks way worse than the white-shirt girl.

Looks like white shirt girl attacked the other girl with scissors and got blood splatter on herself.

The word “scissors” sticks in her mind.

Yep we know why.

Looks like white shirt girl made a scissor slash on her own nose—it doesnt look like her nose was punched.

She looks calm & collected while the other girl looks like “what the f-ck just happened?”

John said...

Dominique said...

I think the girl in the white shirt beat the other girl up.

In fact I know she did.

It’s within her words.

Her own “bloody nose” looks more like blood from the other’s face that splattered onto her.


June 20, 2019 at 4:54 PM

Hi, Dominique

could you elaborate on your findings (words / language) for you to make your observations.

Thanks

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Why does the white-shirted girl have blood around her nose, what appears to be small trickle down her neck, her shirt front appearing blood-soaked, but no visible blood on her chin at all? Is that even logical? If she wiped her chin before the picture was taken, why? If she wiped her chin, she wiped it very well. So why didn't she wipe her nose area and just as thoroughly?

Her friend appears to have significantly less blood on her face and little to no visible blood on her clothing. Nosebleeds gush notoriously, especially with adrenaline rushing in a fight situation.

The pictures seem very "off" and staged with splashes of vivid red on the white shirt, with the injured "woman victim" front and center.

Anonymous said...

The following is a statement by Chris to the BBC (highlights in bold added by me):

I was and still am angry. It was scary, but this is not a novel situation. I’m not scared about being visibly queer. If anything, you should do it more.

A lot of people’s rights and basic safety are at risk. I want people to feel emboldened to stand up to the same people who feel emboldened by the rightwing populism that is, I feel, responsible for the escalation in hate crimes. I want people to take away from this that they should stand up for themselves and each other.”


Autumn

James Grist said...

nice that there's some analysis of the media in england.

Still waiting for significant analysis of 'witness' (crisis actor) statements from the grenfell tower hoax of London June 2017.

This woman actor's statement and delivery is poor and typical of the actors employed for that event.
https://youtu.be/hpo7QRJEIhE?t=78

After learning from the statement analysis community, its impossible to watch the news and media without seeing it as mostly fake.

lynda said...

Are you people serious?

Calling them liars? That one beat the other up?

The WHOLE EVENT WAS TAPED ON THE SURVEILLANCE CAMERA ON THE BUS!

The attack is on VIDEO.

Metropolitan Police have confirmed and stated that they arrested the 5th boy because of the video. 5 boys between the ages of 15-18 were arrested because THEY ARE ON VIDEO ASSAULTING AND ROBBING THEM. They also have CCTV footage.

"This was a disgusting attack on two women," said Detective Superintendent Andy Cox

Just because you don't like the "feminist" language, or how they chose to deal with the attack , you call them liars and abusers??

Jesus..Oh wait...the surveillance video is "FAKE", right? The arrests are "FAKE", right? The Metropolitan Police who arrested them are "FAKE", or they're members of some deep state conspiracy, right?

Statement Analysis Blog said...

Autumn,

in context, "visibly queer" is relevant.

Peter

C5H11ONO said...

Sorry about off topic.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/argentina/story/3881224/maradona-denies-he-has-alzheimers-disease?platform=amp

Maradona has Alzheimers. I dont like this commie child born out of wedlock. He is lying.

Dominique said...

John,

Right now I am under energetic attack & I am unable to concentrate or verbalize large abstractions succinctly for the board. But yes, it is in her words, she attacked her partner & scissor slashed her own nose. It was also premeditated...hence the white shirt she is wearing to display the blood with maximum effect. The premeditation is also contained within her words.

The sentence “the word ‘scissors’ sticks in my mind” is a good place to start in understanding the verbalization of the premeditative elements.

Again, I will explain more when I can free myself from the energetic attack. Please have patience.

Dominique said...

Chris did not want to kiss her. She either WAS sick or pretended to be sick to try to avoid doing so.

Her partner then attacked her.

“sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact”
“ sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact“

“because when you stand up for yourself shit like this happens”

She “stood up” to Chris for rebuking her advances.

“We must have kissed OR SOMETHING”

Chris did not want to kiss her...she probably was sick

She is projecting onto the “attackers” her own treatment of Chris as a sexual object.

Anonymous said...

Peter said:

“in context, “visibly queer” is relevant.”

Chris told the BBC: “I’m not scared about being visibly queer”. Does she mean that they were attacked for being visibly queer but that that won’t deter her from being visibly queer in the future? Or does it mean that the physical attack was not (directly) caused by the couple behaving in a visibly queer way?

I just watched a video of an interview with the two women. In it, Chris says i.a. the following:

“After I realized that one of them was throwing coins I stood up and I turned around and addressed him, eh, and after he did not stop throwing coins I got up out of my seat and I walked back to where he was sitting, eh, fighting broke out and I don’t know how we got from fighting on the top of the bus down to the lower deck but in that timeframe they took my phone, her bag, ehm, and they ran off the bus.”

So Chris is the one who stood up, turned around, got up out of her seat, walked over to the coin-thrower and subsequently “fighting broke out” (“stand up for yourselves and each other, and fight back”). That means she’s the one who took initiative but instead she blames it on “rightwing populism”. I find that ludicrous. In the meantime we still don’t know who delivered the first punch. In any case, she speaks of “fighting” (which is a mutual activity) instead of an attack. I’m not condoning the boys’ behavior. Throwing coins and calling names is obnoxious behavior (let alone fighting with women) and I don’t blame the couple for reprimanding them but I feel we don’t have the complete story yet.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/victims-of-homophobic-attack-on-london-bus-speak-out-1.3919656

Also: why doesn't police release cctv footage? On youtube it is widely speculated that this is because the boys are Muslim. If so, it wouldn’t be the first time a major European city shoves misogynistic crimes by Muslims under the carpet.

Autumn

Hey Jude said...

A couple who were attacked on a London bus have insisted they will not behave differently in public and feel more "physically confident" because they know they will stand up for themselves.
Melania Geymonat, 28, and her girlfriend Chris, 29, were returning from a night out in West Hampstead when a group of teenagers began taunting them, making crude gestures and asking the pair to kiss for their entertainment. 

When they refused, the group started throwing coins before launching a violent assault, which left Chris with a broken jaw. 

In an interview with Channel 4, they described the incident as primarily 'an attack towards women, and then after homosexual women'. 

But they said it has not changed how safe they feel going out in London and said they would not allow the attack to change the way they act as a couple. 
Chris said: “I’ve always been scanning the environment. This attack did not leave me feeling less confident - if anything I’m more physically confident myself because I know that I will stand up myself.”

She added: “I have had twinges of uneasiness - but to not behave the way that a heterosexual couple would freely is letting people get you down.”
Ms Geymonat, a 28-year-old doctor from Uruguay, said she believes the group saw the couple as “sexual objects.”

“It was an attack towards women and then after a homosexual attack,” she said.

“The first thing that happened that night is they were watching us and seeing us as sexual objects, they thought we were there to entertain them so in that sense we were objects for them.”
Chris admitted she still felt angry in the wake of the attack but the feeling was not directed at the teenagers.

“These kids on the bus they’re not really the source of my angst now it’s more (that) hate crimes are alive and well,” she said. 

A picture of the couple taken immediately after the attack, which took place on May 30, went viral when it was posted on Ms Geymonat’s Facebook page.  

Speaaking of the picture, she said: “The picture is very striking. It's a violent picture so I think it was circulated for shock value but it is a picture of two white women, we’re very tidily packaged into sympathetic victims."
Ms Geymonat said the gang behaved like "hooligans", throwing money at the couple before punching them.
Both women were taken to hospital for treatment to facial injuries. Chris had a broken jaw. 
Four males, aged between 15 and 18 years old, were arrested on suspicion of aggravated GBH and robbery in relation to the attack. 

Hey Jude said...

^^

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lesbian-couple-targeted-in-homophobic-attack-on-london-bus-are-now-more-confident-a4168071.html

Hey Jude said...

What is with “scissors” and one of them pretending to be sick? Was something surreptitious occurring during the time she was pretending to be sick - was the end snipped from a mini tube of fake blood? Not to suggest there wasn’t a fight, rather that one of them, at least might have gone prepared with theatrical blood for a photo op? I don’t know if they were taken immediately to hospital. What was amongst their stolen stuff, and were their things recovered - I wonder if nail scissors? What is the significance of “scissors”?

One had a broken jaw which she was advised will heal itself, while the other had nose surgery last week - in photos they each have a black eye. Undoubtedly they were assaulted and injured, but I’m not convinced the boys caused all the damage. The passive language suggests the women aren’t convinced either?

Why are they not angry at the “kids” on the bus if it was they who started, and attacked them? It seems like wishing to excuse them, but why? Do they feel guilt - certainly one of them says “I feel, responsible for the escalation in hate crimes.‘. Is that not out of the horses’s mouth? I think they went out of their way to provoke them in order to star as Pride month victims, which end they have achieved.

Hey Jude said...

‘Both women were taken to hospital for treatment to facial injuries.’

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/08/lesbian-couple-sent-horrendous-homophobic-messages-trolls-bus-attack-9872733/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/


It doesn’t say when, though. I’d think at the time. I suppose fake blood would be identifiable to hospital staff - does it dry brown like real blood or stay bright red.

Probably speculating too wildly, but there is so much of agenda in the interviews, I can’t help but think the incident was not provoked and intended. And “scissors” was strange, unless perhaps there was concern that scissors might be discovered, if the stolen bag in which they were in (if there were scissors) was recovered by the police. Scissors would not be on anyone else’s mind, but they would be on the women’s minds if they were significant to what happened. Why “scissors”?

Nose bleeds do produce a lot of blood, so I concede the blood could be from them both being punched in the nose - I don’t think either was that specific, it was “got punched in the face”. If someone broke my nose, I’d be more likely to say “he broke my nose.” The angst is not about that, but about hate crimes being “alive and well”. Would that be a positive linguistic disposition towards ‘hate crimes’, or those committing them?

General P. Malaise said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
General P. Malaise said...

Blogger Hey Jude said...

Why “scissors”?


indeed. lol ...it is a reference to a lesbian sex position. who doesn't watch South Park?

Anonymous said...

OT: Dressing Room Sex At Bergdorf's

https://www.thecut.com/2019/06/donald-trump-assault-e-jean-carroll-other-hideous-men.html#comments
Which brings me to the other rich boy. Before I discuss him, I must mention that there are two great handicaps to telling you what happened to me in Bergdorf’s: (a) The man I will be talking about denies it, as he has denied accusations of sexual misconduct made by at least 15 credible women, namely, Jessica Leeds, Kristin Anderson, Jill Harth, Cathy Heller, Temple Taggart McDowell, Karena Virginia, Melinda McGillivray, Rachel Crooks, Natasha Stoynoff, Jessica Drake, Ninni Laaksonen, Summer Zervos, Juliet Huddy, Alva Johnson, and Cassandra Searles. (Here’s what the White House said: “This is a completely false and unrealistic story surfacing 25 years after allegedly taking place and was created simply to make the President look bad.”) And (b) I run the risk of making him more popular by revealing what he did.
His admirers can’t get enough of hearing that he’s rich enough, lusty enough, and powerful enough to be sued by and to pay off every splashy porn star or Playboy Playmate who “comes forward,” so I can’t imagine how ecstatic the poor saps will be to hear their favorite Walking Phallus got it on with an old lady in the world’s most prestigious department store.
This is during the years I am doing a daily Ask E. Jean TV show for the cable station America’s Talking, a precursor to MSNBC launched by Roger Ailes (who, by the way, is No. 16 on my list).
Early one evening, as I am about to go out Bergdorf’s revolving door on 58th Street, and one of New York’s most famous men comes in the revolving door, or it could have been a regular door at that time, I can’t recall, and he says: “Hey, you’re that advice lady!”
And I say to No. 20 on the Most Hideous Men of My Life List: “Hey, you’re that real-estate tycoon!”
I am surprised at how good-looking he is. We’ve met once before, and perhaps it is the dusky light but he looks prettier than ever. This has to be in the fall of 1995 or the spring of 1996 because he’s garbed in a faultless topcoat and I’m wearing my black wool Donna Karan coatdress and high heels but not a coat.
“Come advise me,” says the man. “I gotta buy a present.”
“Oh!” I say, charmed. “For whom?”
“A girl,” he says.
“Don’t the assistants of your secretaries buy things like that?” I say.
“Not this one,” he says. Or perhaps he says, “Not this time.” I can’t recall. He is a big talker, and from the instant we collide, he yammers about himself like he’s Alexander the Great ready to loot Babylon.
As we are standing just inside the door, I point to the handbags. “How about—”
“No!” he says, making the face where he pulls up both lips like he’s balancing a spoon under his nose, and begins talking about how he once thought about buying Bergdorf ’s.
“Or … a hat!” I say enthusiastically, walking toward the handbags, which, at the period I’m telling you about — and Bergdorf’s has been redone two or three times since then — are mixed in with, and displayed next to, the hats. “She’ll love a hat! You can’t go wrong with a hat!”
I don’t remember what he says, but he comes striding along — greeting a Bergdorf sales attendant like he owns the joint and permitting a shopper to gape in awe at him — and goes right for a fur number.
“Please,” I say. “No woman would wear a dead animal on her head!”
What he replies I don’t recall, but I remember he coddles the fur hat like it’s a baby otter.
“How old is the lady in question?” I ask.
“How old are you?” replies the man, fondling the hat and looking at me like Louis Leakey carbon-dating a thighbone he’s found in Olduvai Gorge.

Anonymous said...

continued:

“I’m 52,” I tell him.
“You’re so old!” he says, laughing — he was around 50 himself — and it’s at about this point that he drops the hat, looks in the direction of the escalator, and says, “Lingerie!” Or he may have said “Underwear!” So we stroll to the escalator. I don’t remember anybody else greeting him or galloping up to talk to him, which indicates how very few people are in the store at the time.
I have no recollection where lingerie is in that era of Bergdorf’s, but it seems to me it is on a floor with the evening gowns and bathing suits, and when the man and
I arrive — and my memory now is vivid — no one is present.
There are two or three dainty boxes and a lacy see-through bodysuit of lilac gray on the counter. The man snatches the bodysuit up and says: “Go try this on!”
“You try it on,” I say, laughing. “It’s your color.”
“Try it on, come on,” he says, throwing it at me.
“It goes with your eyes,” I say, laughing and throwing it back.
“You’re in good shape,” he says, holding the filmy thing up against me. “I wanna see how this looks.”
“But it’s your size,” I say, laughing and trying to slap him back with one of the boxes on the counter.
“Come on,” he says, taking my arm. “Let’s put this on.”
This is gonna be hilarious, I’m saying to myself — and as I write this, I am staggered by my stupidity. As we head to the dressing rooms, I’m laughing aloud and saying in my mind: I’m gonna make him put this thing on over his pants!
There are several facts about what happens next that are so odd I want to clear them up before I go any further:
Did I report it to the police?
No.
Did I tell anyone about it?
Yes. I told two close friends. The first, a journalist, magazine writer, correspondent on the TV morning shows, author of many books, etc., begged me to go to the police.
“He raped you,” she kept repeating when I called her. “He raped you. Go to the police! I’ll go with you. We’ll go together.”
My second friend is also a journalist, a New York anchorwoman. She grew very quiet when I told her, then she grasped both my hands in her own and said, “Tell no one. Forget it! He has 200 lawyers. He’ll bury you.” (Two decades later, both still remember the incident clearly and confirmed their accounts to New York.)
Do I have photos or any visual evidence?
Bergdorf’s security cameras must have picked us up at the 58th Street entrance of the store. We would have been filmed on the ground floor in the bags-and-hats sections. Cameras also must have captured us going up the escalator and into the lingerie department. New York law at the time did not explicitly prohibit security cameras in dressing rooms to “prevent theft.” But even if it had been captured on tape, depending on the position of the camera, it would be very difficult to see the man unzipping his pants, because he was wearing a topcoat. The struggle might simply have read as “sexy.” The speculation is moot, anyway: The department store has confirmed that it no longer has tapes from that time.

Anonymous said...

continued:

Why were there no sales attendants in the lingerie department?
Bergdorf Goodman’s perfections are so well known — it is a store so noble, so clubby, so posh — that it is almost easier to accept the fact that I was attacked than the fact that, for a very brief period, there was no sales attendant in the lingerie department. Inconceivable is the word. Sometimes a person won’t find a sales attendant in Saks, it’s true; sometimes one has to look for a sales associate in Barneys, Bloomingdale’s, or even Tiffany’s; but 99 percent of the time, you will have an attendant in Bergdorf’s. All I can say is I did not, in this fleeting episode, see an attendant. And the other odd thing is that a dressing-room door was open. In Bergdorf’s dressing rooms, doors are usually locked until a client wants to try something on.
Why haven’t I “come forward” before now?
Receiving death threats, being driven from my home, being dismissed, being dragged through the mud, and joining the 15 women who’ve come forward with credible stories about how the man grabbed, badgered, belittled, mauled, molested, and assaulted them, only to see the man turn it around, deny, threaten, and attack them, never sounded like much fun. Also, I am a coward.
So now I will tell you what happened:
The moment the dressing-room door is closed, he lunges at me, pushes me against the wall, hitting my head quite badly, and puts his mouth against my lips. I am so shocked I shove him back and start laughing again. He seizes both my arms and pushes me up against the wall a second time, and, as I become aware of how large he is, he holds me against the wall with his shoulder and jams his hand under my coat dress and pulls down my tights.
I am astonished by what I’m about to write: I keep laughing. The next moment, still wearing correct business attire, shirt, tie, suit jacket, overcoat, he opens the overcoat, unzips his pants, and, forcing his fingers around my private area, thrusts his penis halfway — or completely, I’m not certain — inside me. It turns into a colossal struggle. I am wearing a pair of sturdy black patent-leather four-inch Barneys high heels, which puts my height around six-one, and I try to stomp his foot. I try to push him off with my one free hand — for some reason, I keep holding my purse with the other — and I finally get a knee up high enough to push him out and off and I turn, open the door, and run out of the dressing room.
The whole episode lasts no more than three minutes. I do not believe he ejaculates. I don’t remember if any person or attendant is now in the lingerie department. I don’t remember if I run for the elevator or if I take the slow ride down on the escalator. As soon as I land on the main floor, I run through the store and out the door — I don’t recall which door — and find myself outside on Fifth Avenue.
And that was my last hideous man. The Donna Karan coatdress still hangs on the back of my closet door, unworn and unlaundered since that evening. And whether it’s my age, the fact that I haven’t met anyone fascinating enough over the past couple of decades to feel “the sap rising,” as Tom Wolfe put it, or if it’s the blot of the real-estate tycoon, I can’t say. But I have never had sex with anybody ever again.

Willow said...

“I’m not scared about being visibly queer”
Visibly queer is not queer. Plus it's in the negative, she says what she's not instead of what she is.
Where does the writer say that she is queer?

Who took the studio quality photo of the two bleeding women?
The angle of the photo is from much lower level than any surveillance cameras could produce.

A coincidence:

We only have full name of one of the victims, Dr. Melania Geymonat, 28, from Uruguay.

Gay Monat = Gay month.

The expected from the victims of violence would be to take care of own and partner's injuries and wounds immediately. Not to provoke violence for starters.
Also, to help find the perpetrators by giving information on their appearance etc.
Instead there was an ideological written manifesto concerning self-affirmation, dignity, the actual theme of June Gay Pride delivered before even the writer knows wheter if her nose is broken.

Last name for Chris?
The explanation that she is "a private person" is not true, it is nonsense, as she herself volunteers to write a piece in The Guardian.
Deception indicated. It is reasonable to assume there is no Chris. The character may be fictional on the basis of this single detail only.
This doesn't mean that the episode hadn't taken place, two women may have been there, etc. Who these perons are, when this happened, and how, cannot be reliably deduced from what we know.
No one willing to stay anonymous can write a notable piece in a major newsmedia as the consequence is they lose their private person status for good.
No private person can use the media for their own agenda anonymously and one-sidedly unless it's a project that the publisher is on purpose promoting.

Who was the bus driver? Why don't we have his/her name nor knowledge of participation in helping the victims?

We only have one identifiable person in the whole incident, Dr. Gay Monat.




Hey Jude said...

General, I saw a lot of Southpark in my time, not so much since they killed Kenny, tho. :). Get in the kitchen and make me some pie! - I hope that’s not a reference to anything besides pie.

Hey Jude said...

OT: Dressing Room Sex at Bergdoff’s

It’s written in the present tense, with apparent recall of decades old dialogue, yet no recall of whether a door was of the revolving type, or many other details - it may not be from experiential memory. The writer is not willing to stand alone, naming numerous others who have made complaints of sexual misconduct - does she feel a need to borrow credibility from others who have been believed? She has been reluctant in “jjoining the 15 women who’ve come forward with credible stories” - why the need for “credible”? Why not “already come forward”, or “with what happened to them”? She twice associates her story with those which have been found credible - she is finding strength in numbers, and aligning herself with those who have gained credibility as victims.

The chosen description of what happened is that “he got it on”, which is not to say “rape”.

The writer uses “us” and “we” following recall of the alleged “episode”, which might be unexpected - was she not attacked? “Episode” is chosen at least twice.

She allows another to convey that she was raped, but does not claim to have been raped herself.

She maybe “galloped” up to greet the man. She liked that she was desirable at her then age - she wants the reader to know that.

Insult or dissatisfaction? - “thrusts his penis halfway — or completely, I’m not certain — inside me”

Finally she offers:

“But I have never had sex with anybody ever again.”

In her own perception, she “had sex” with the man.


Hey Jude said...

Or there’s the other punctuation:

"Right-wing populism that is, I feel, responsible for the escalation of hate crimes,"


https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/06/lesbian-bashing-couple-speaks-5-teens-arrested/

——
“Eats, Shoots And Leaves.” ^.

Hey Jude said...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YpW4min8TtU

Melania doesn’t remember if she punched somebody, she really doesn’t.

“I was bleeding all over. I was really bleeding.”

I want to believe her, but I don’t know what she means. Did they punch one another in the fray? Do any of the boys have bloodied noses?What to make of it all, and English as a second language?

Is she trying to persuade that she really was bleeding, which should be unnecessary, as by the time of the interview she knows we have all seen the photograph - or is she just emphasising that she was bleeding a lot?

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude,

Yes, that is what she says (she feels right-wing populism is responsible for escalation of hate crimes). I think it's interesting how she words this though. She inserts "I feel" directly before the words "responsible for escalation". Since she's interviewed about the (aftermath of the) attack on the bus, I think this may be a subconscious expression of her feeling responsible for the physical altercation. Her body language i.m.o. is also quite telling while she says it.

See here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/victims-of-homophobic-attack-on-london-bus-speak-out-1.3919656.

In that same part of the interview she furthermore repeatedly says "stand up" (in the sense of: stand up for yourself, etc.). Isn't that exactly what (at least in part) led to the escalation on the bus? That fact that she stood up, turned around and got out of her chair?

Autumn

John said...

""

Re OT Dressing Room Sex at Bergdoff’s

Snipped:

"Time And Form"

The same studies that have concluded that investigative statements are considered normal to have 3 lines per hour (we may allowance for investigations that have overnight staff) and 1 line per hour or less to be deception present, and above 6 lines per hour to be deceptive (with 9 lph being the threshold for certainty) have also concluded that the form of a statement will also indicate truthfulness and deception.

We know that when an investigation is done around a particular event, innocent and guilty people alike will describe what happened by introducing the issue, writing about the issue, and reporting what happened after the issue.

For instance:

A client was assaulted by staff.

A staff who witnessed the assault may write something like this:

I. Introduction: I was walking the client to her day program. She was having some challenges that day.

This is the introduction and we would expect it to be shorter than the actual assault.


II. The client began to become agitated and yelled at me and Staff B. The consumer said she did not want to go to day program and picked up her soft drink and threw it into the face of staff B. Staff B was very angry and turned to the consumer and said, “You don’t do that to me! Now I have to change my shirt” and I saw Staff B slap the consumer across the face with her open hand.

The issue is the assault and the witness has used more lines to describe the assault.

III. Then, I told Staff B to go inside and calm down and took the client back to the house and called the supervisor.


The “after event” is also short. This would be an indication of veracity based on its form.
The “form” is one indicator of truth or deception. Honest statements are generally within the bounds of:



25% introduction
50% body of what happened
25% post event

Our sample statement is 10 lines long.

2 lines before slap
6 lines describing slap
2 lines after slap

20 % pre event
60% event
20% post event.

This falls close to our expected parameter and would be deemed reliable based upon its form.

85% of deceptive people to the “before” time than the do to the “after” (LSI)

Investigators are taught: prior to the interview, photocopy the statement. Before reading the statement: Circle all pronouns. Then, count the number of lines in a statement. If the subject has used more than 33% of the statement without getting to the subject, the Interviewer should suspect that deception might be present within the statement.

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/search?q=form

In the above statement (OT) of alleged assault.

She uses 1,823 words.

She uses a staggering 1,432 words pre event
And only 232 words what allegedly happened
Post event 159 words.

This would alert me to possible deception just by time and form alone

Willow said...

"Chris said, “They got up out of their seats and walked over to where we were, and started very aggressively harassing us. Fighting broke out and they took my phone, her phone, her bag and they ran off the bus.”"

The picture with bloody shirts is credited to Melania Geymonat. The text says it's a selfie that the women took.

How can it be?
The phones and the bags were stolen from the women, "and they rän off the bus" according to Melania.
The gang of 5 assaulters aged 15-18, took the items with them and fled from the bus before the picture could have been taken.
Who took photo?

Or did the gang assault and fight the women causing them bloody faces, then, did they calm down and pause in order for Melania to take the double-selfie credited to her?

Let's see: The victims say to the assailants: wait a minute, don't go yet, we need to take a selfie with blood. The victims sit down, place themself and the phone-camera correctly. At this phase only seconds have passed from the last punches in the noses that are possibly broken.
Anyway, the picture has to be taken, it's the most important evidence of the brutal attack.
Of course the gang of five understands, stops the action for a selfie, and vanishes in to the night with the items only after the photo has been successfully taken.

Anonymous said...

OT: Dressing Room Sex at Bergdoff’s

"And that was my last hideous man."

She accuses him of raping her but at the same time describes him as "my (...) man"?

"The man I will be talking about denies it, as he has denied accusations of sexual misconduct made by at least 15 credible women."

Why doesn't she say "other" credible women? Is she not credible?

"This is gonna be hilarious, I’m saying to myself — and as I write this, I am staggered by my stupidity." AND "I am astonished by what I’m about to write: I keep laughing."

Is she only just now - as she writes this - staggered by her stupidity and astonished by the fact that she kept laughing? She must not have given the "episode" a lot of thought then. Did it even make an impression on her? Did it even happen at all? Or does she see it all as one big "hilarious" joke and does she "keep laughing" as she "writes this" salacious story?

It turned into a "colossal struggle" but at the same time this struggle might have simply read as “sexy” on camera footage?

Why doesn't she say the man was Donald Trump? Is it because saying that would be a direct lie?

I don't see any indication that she was scared or traumatized. Instead she uses words like hilarious and laughing and finds it more important to describe her attire (4-inch Barneys high heels, Donna Karan coatdress).

Etcetera.

Autumn.

Hey Jude said...

Autumn, going by that interview alone, their reaction seems reasonable, to me - In that situation, if surrounded by hooligans all unprovoked, I would have stood up, too, to feel less vulnerable - but then I would more likely have made us both go downstairs rather than move away from my date in order to confront the boy who was throwing coins. If she wanted to give him a piece of her mind, that would have been reasonable enough, so long as they didn’t feel under threat. if you felt under threat by five youths, would you go out of your way to confront one, or consider safety more? Would she have left Melania at the front of the bus if she believed they were under threat? If the boys, excepting the coin thrower, were surrounding them at the front of the bus, then by this account it would seem the fight broke out between just Chris and the boy throwing coins - the others didn’t obstruct her as she left the front of the bus, and she didn’t feel she and Melania needed to stay together for safety. Elsewhere Melania says three of them were in the middle of the bus, punching Chris. Maybe they went down the bus to try to stop Chris and the coin-thrower fighting, or to join in. The accounts differ between each telling, but from where I am looking, it still seems that they more engaged and escalated the situation than didn’t, maybe even initiated it all. It probably doesn’t take much effort to over excite, and goad young men on a night bus.

—-

I read somewhere that the photograph was taken by a passenger downstairs.

Anonymous said...

OT: Was the colossal struggle in the challenge of insertion while her height in heels misaligned their standing, mostly clothed bodies? Her tights would have to be almost off to create access.

Hey Jude said...

In one interview they took “my phone, her phone and her bag” - in another “my phone and her bag” - maybe Melania’s phone was in her bag, so Chris just said “her bag” the other time - it’s another inconsistency tho’. I find their appearance makes me think I should believe them as they are pretty beat up. Such passive language though - “fighting broke out” and not wanting to blame “the kids on the bus” - not even “the kids who attacked us.”

Hey Jude said...

She’d never be mistaken for Queen Reasonable of the Reasonable People, that’s for sure. It’s an odd tirade. Maybe those characters from her past were interested to learn that she is lesbian - she said somewhere that actually she is bi-sexual. Maybe they outed her, somehow, if only to herself.

Anonymous said...

I am sure his Dad will be picking him out a new Burkha babe soon! And I will laugh hysterically when he does!!!! Because it's all a joke, it's all bullshit. And I now hate him and realize everything my man gives me and does for me is everything he didn't. Yet he wants to spy hoover suck me back in. It will be a relief when he gets hitched to the new Burkha babe!!!!!!! I am so tired of him!!!!! He admits to spying on social media and energetically draining and "experimenting" on me, seeing if he can manipulate me back into his clutches. He told me years ago that he loves the fact that all he needs to do is think of me and I respond. And then he would call me bragging of his power over me. He is so dumb the only reason he was able to do that is because of the energy transfer that occurred...love did it. Why did that happen? An energy current rushed from his heart into mine. It was visceral, I could feel the texture of it, it rushed from him into me like the correct code had been entered into a computer or something. Very bizarre and how sad I had to experience that with someone so unworthy of me. How sad for him he didn't realize what he had and exploited it for a feeling of power. His power over me is over. And yes I have a new man who treats me like a QUEEEN! I am not opening the door for him to enter.

Anonymous said...

It's so hard and awful. It has been 2 weeks of him draining me. I even had a dream that an Oriental man was teaching me some technique to energetically combat it.

The only real way to combat it is to know that it is nothing but him seeking fuel for his narcissism. AT my expense.

I don't love him anymore.

Unknown said...

He could be just like me and expatiate. When I tell someone something I will tell them what color the grass was, all the names of the chickens, why we named them that, what I ate at the wedding, what the bestmans toast was like. It is annoying and I hate that I do that. As for that case...I just dont like his past tense slips and his praise of LEO. Also no one goes anywhere w/out the cellies. If I come home and my beloved are not there and both cell phones are there I am immediatly calling the police. 1 phone..mehhhh..2 phones still there..gut feeling says he is being deceptive

Anonymous said...

There is selective memory in this account. There is also minimising, 'episode" and "we must have kissed or "something" plus when her friend is fighting with them she only went over on an "impulse." So much for protecting you friend who she is distancing herself from "that"Chris." "only" to find her face bleeding" Only? as opposed to what? This seems like minimising language. there were "THREE" of them beating her up. Where was the fourth? Why the unnecessary need to say "I don't remember if they were already there or if they got on after us?" It's unnecessary because it's necessary for her to say it. She minimises her actions and the actions of her friend prior to her friend being beaten up and prior to herself being punched. It seems a little too convenient. It appear, she doesn't remember what she choses not to yet remembers specific details which are in her favour. Their involvement in reduced or non existent via passivity, minimisation, lack of memory and missing information (TL) yet she remembers things which put her account in a better light. Selective memory. The "attack" isn't he priority. It's reported in the present tense. There is missing information. Half the lies she tells aren't true. There is narrative building as the story progresses and a need to persuade. What "stuff" was stolen? It seems like this could have been pre-empted, especially with the timing (which is the priority of the statement) with it being June and the comment "sometimes" "It's NECESSARY to see a woman bleeding..." after being punched. I'm getting the impression this could have been staged especially with the word "punched" being repeated yet there is a lack of commitment to it. consider the words you would expect to hear when describing an attack after seeing pictures like this. It's incongruent. Why hasn't she been able to go back to work? She hasn't said that it's because of what happened. There is no emotion, no trauma after having processed the attack. No bad things to say about the attackers, how they started it. Rather, what "upsets her most is that violence has become a common thing..." not the fact that she was the victim to a traumatic event. what kind of impact is she hoping to have? "THESE SITUATIONS ARE USUAL" is telling. She draws herself close which is unexpected. Gay friends are beaten up "just because"... because what? How old is she? Is this account her STANDING up" or taking a STAND?" By the way.... as an afterthought. Maybe she is close friends with Charlie Rogers. "Describing "sexual positions" she conveniently doesn't remember everything but hot on the tail after sexual positions, she remembers "scissors..." she's leaving it to the audience to interpret. when it comes to standing up for yourself, better to do it on more than an "impulse" which suggests the opposite is true. The personality profile for this person is endless. Move along, there is nothing to see here, well there isn't as there was no one else on the bus which she doesn't remember or does she and how does she if they were upstairs, how could they have known no one was downstairs? Anyways, nothing to see until I tell you there is....

Alex said...

Regarding the President at the Bergdorf. Isn't this an excerpt from a book? If so, would the form change from what one might expect in a statement to police or while addressing the media?
She sure has put herself in harms way many more times than I think a right minded person would after being assaulted so many times. I think I would learn to avoid that type of situation long before my count reached double digits. She isn't even counting the episode with Hunter S. Thompson.
I believe they had consensual sex. Maybe President Trump doesn't remember her, but I haven't read here he says i didn't do it. He does, however, say never, a lot.

Alex

Alex said...

That should read "where" he says I didn't do it.

Alex

Anonymous said...

Peter,

Can you look at E. Jean Carroll please?

http://digg.com/video/e-jean-carroll-donald-trump-assault-allegation

Anonymous said...

OT: Dressing Room Sex at Bergdoff’s

WATCH: ANDERSON COOPER ABRUPTLY GOES TO COMMERCIAL AFTER TRUMP ACCUSER E. JEAN CARROLL SAYS ‘PEOPLE THINK OF RAPE AS BEING SEXY’

Monday on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360,” writer E. Jean Carroll, who has accused President Donald Trump of rape, had a curious exchange with host Anderson Cooper about her status as a “victim” and the definition of rape.

“Sexual violence is in every country in every strata of society, and I just feel that so many women are undergoing sexual violence,” Carroll explained. “Mine was short. I got out. I’m happy now. I’m moving on. And I think of all the women who are enduring constant sexual violence. So this one incident, this one, what, three minutes in this little dressing room, I just say it’s a fight. That way I’m not the victim, right? I’m not the victim.”

“You don’t feel like a victim?” Cooper replied.

“I was not thrown on the ground and ravished, which the word rape carries so many sexual connotations,” she said. “This was not sexual. It just – it hurt.”

“I think most people think of rape as a violent assault,” Cooper said.

“I think most people think of rape as being sexy – think of the fantasies,” she added.



Source: https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/06/24/watch-anderson-cooper-abruptly-goes-to-commercial-after-trump-accuser-e-jean-carroll-says-people-think-of-rape-as-being-sexy/

Autumn

Anonymous said...

"I just say it's a fight. That way I'm not the victim, right? I'm not the victim."

"I think most people think of rape as being sexy - think of the fantasies."


Autumn

Anonymous said...

"I just say it's a fight."

So she's just saying it? There wasn't really a "colossal struggle"? Also: "it's" is present tense.

Autumn

Anonymous said...

"I think most people think of rape as being sexy - think of the fantasies."

"Think", "think of", "think of". Did she make up rape fantasies?

Autumn

Anonymous said...

"This was not sexual."

Anonymous said...

"So this one incident, this one, what, three minutes in this little dressing room (...)"

- "three minutes" -> 3 is the liars number
- she's minimizing what allegedly happened by saying "this one" (2x) AND "incident" AND "what" AND "little dressing room" (even the place where it supposedly happened was so small it's hardly worth mentioning)
- is she pulling the rape close to her by repeatedly saying "this" (3x)? Wouldn't she distance herself from it if had really happened by saying "that"?

Autumn

Anonymous said...

"...and I just feel that so many women are undergoing sexual violence..."

Anonymous said...

I was not thrown on the ground and ravished, which the word rape carries so many sexual connotations. This was not sexual. It just – it hurt.”

Was she hurt because it was not sexual? Was she rejected?

Autumn

Anonymous said...

Did being told "you're so old" hurt?

It is at that point in her retelling that adds dashes and slows time.

CeriB said...

I beg your pardon?

Five people have been arrested, and vilified as bigots. These women are making money by vilifying them. By Peter's analysis, the boys were at least provoked, and at worst, attacked physically by Chris.

And here you are, anonymously calling Peter a bigot for speaking the truth. Why? Because the people doing the lying and making the false accusations are members of a minority group?

Alright then.

CeriB said...

Where is it in her words?

Anonymous said...

Little late but...

NARCISSIST. Chris would've submitted to being hit. I've seen NPD firsthand. Ruthless, evil people. She could've easily talked 4 kids into attacking them, and would then have them arrested. And the kids wouldn't tell a soul. We're supposed to believe their stories, contradictions and all.

Highly attention-seeking, pits people against each other, plays the victim and martyr, pathological liar, no empathy, controlling, veiled bragging. It's mesmerizing, and depressing, to watch the insidious progression of brainwashing.
-------------------

It's odd they said "...CALLING US LESBIANS." Like it's an incorrect observation or insult. If I complain that a person called me a b*tch or an idiot, it implies I disagree or it's untrue. Saying she's bisexual is probably to maintain the lie for those who thought they were straight.

"I had a date with Chris" - distancing. They're not a lesbian couple. But it was made a priority in her account, as it's imperative they're perceived as lesbians, and therefore victims.

"...must have kissed or something”

--Hate-mongering agenda
--Need victims - we'll play lesbians.
--Need an extreme attack on a benign act.
--We'll just "kiss or something". It doesn't really matter, we just need a catalyst.

At a different time she said she "photographed the trail of our blood". Where is all this blood?

"I DON'T KNOW YET IF MY NOSE IS BROKEN, AND I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GO BACK TO WORK."

The "work" part indicates some time has passed, as in days, and she still didn't know if her nose was broken! I thought they "sought treatment". No swelling, no bruising on face. EYE MAKEUP AND HAIR INTACT (posed for the photo-op). No marks or blood on hands. But her whole neck is uniformly gray (makeup?). Does she speak of being strangled or hit there?

It's a good thing she HAPPENED TO WEAR WHITE and not black. And she brought a coat, which would hide the (fake?) blood until she needed to reveal it.

Follow the path of the narrow stream of blood. It doesn't start from her nose. It seems to start from a red strawberry (no cuts?) under her throat.

It travels down her neck and chest, then bam! Blood everywhere! The laws of gravity cease to exist in that country apparently.

"sometimes it's necessary to see a woman bleeding after having been punched to feel some kind of impact.”

Yes I caught that too. "Secret Life of David Gayle" - just a movie, but a character killed herself to set up a man for murder to promote her anti-capital-punishment agenda. Society is getting to this point in the name of SELF-sacrifice.

I reaching here...

BTW the media spews out whatever garbage people tell them. Do we know for sure the kids were arrested? That the women sought treatment?

"It was only them and us there." On the whole bus? The whole time? Or when the fight started? Cameras? No witnesses to film it? Bus driver statement?