Tuesday, June 23, 2015

Anonymous Hate Letter Sent to David and Wani Shaw



This married couple, David and Wani Shaw, received an anonymous letter which said:






We are able to analyze the letter, as is, with some information about the author emerging.  

First, however, let's examine the quotes from the couple.  They are married, and have a business that began as a pushcart and graduated to a store.  The quotes are inspiring.  

Wani said, "Whoever wrote that letter is in the dying minority.  We don't deny that past, but we don't relive it. We're part of a generation that knows better. And wants more."

Regarding moving to California: 

"Hey, we aren't going to California.  There's a drought there! That'll put us out of business!"

David Shaw as to why he posted it:   

"I posted it because there was no way I could communicate with the person," he said. "There was no return address, no name. This was the only way I could communicate."

The Shaws are owners of Magic City Sweet Ice, an authentic Italian Ice shop in Homewood. 

A year ago, , they were working hard to start a business from a push-cart at the Woodlawn Street Market. This past April, they opened their first store in West Homewood, at 715 Oak Grove Road. 

Next:  What does the anonymous letter say about the author?

87 comments:

Anonymous said...

Forgive my naivety i'm not from the US.

What does "SOP" mean?

Thanks

Jen Ow said...

Standard Operating Procedure

Red Meat said...

Standard Operating Procedure

Anonymous said...

Thanks Jen, thanks Red

Jen Ow said...

Anytime, Anon!

The 'anonymous' author of this letter knows the husband's name, and apparently where he/they used to live? That should narrow down the field of possible authors quite a bit, right?

Another article I read about this letter calls it a "beautiful coincidence" that the letter was recieved on the anniversary of the Supreme Court Ruling for the desegregation of marriage. Yep, that is QUITE a 'coincidence', indeed!

Funny how the recipient's comments also focus on the history aspect of this issue. How coincidental is that!

C5H11ONO said...

“David
It is hard to imagine a Birmingham boy.”
--The impression I get from this statement is that the author knows David personally, addressing only him in the letter, not he and his wife, therefore may not be familiar with the wife. The author knew him since before he left Birmingham. It would be good to learn how old he was when he left. The author knows David for a long time and I believe he was little and saw him grow up “and bringing back a black wife” The author has skipped through time here. He left and time goes by and he connects him to a black wife at the end.
“You need to move to California where that is SOP”
This is addressed to him alone, not David and his wife. The use of SOP implies that the author knows that David will understand the lingo.
I am curious if his current wife was a willing participant at moving to Birmingham. Where is Woodlawn? The author knew where he lived after leaving Birmingham. The author is very familiar with David and where he’s been.

C5H11ONO said...

http://www.littlethings.com/hate-mail-interracial-marriage/

There is a screen shot of his actual response to the hate mail on this site.
He wrote:
1) I LOVE my beautiful black wife and everything about her, (most everything about her). Our love for one another is far deeper than skin color.
2) We won’t be moving to California, or God willing, anywhere else anytime soon.
3) You got the address wrong
4) Woodlawn?

Anonymous said...


Wani said, "Whoever wrote that letter is in the dying minority. We don't deny that past, but we don't relive it. We're part of a generation that knows better. And wants more."

"that letter" - Distancing language, i would say "the letter"

"is in the dying minority" - interesting, here he says "is in the dying minority" - Why does he say "dying" it is unnecessary?

"We don't deny that past" - He says they "don't deny that past" yet again here we see distancing language "That" also said in the negative.

"We're part of a generation that knows better" - what "generation" does he speak of?

"And wants more." - This sentence starts with "and" suggesting missing information?

"I posted it because there was no way I could communicate with the person," he said. "There was no return address, no name. This was the only way I could communicate." -

-It's noticeable here he changes pronouns from "we're" to "I". Above he has the need to share when talking about the letter and the past. Yet when talking about responding he takes sole ownership (I) and not "we". Can his wife respond?

"whoever" changes to "person". Is there justification for the change in language?









Blu said...

the biggest coincidence is that this letter was timed to their moving to a big shop as opposed to an ice cream cart, and this being their first business they might have been worried about attracting business. this letter puts them firmly in the spotlight. That too is a beautiful coincidence.
the part of the letter that bugs me the most is the leaving port it's hard to imagine a man leaving and bringing back a black wife. Why is it important that he left? What does it bring to the letter to have that in there? who might that be sensitive to, his leaving? I can't get past it.

blu said...

anonymous, you have attributed Wanis comments to David. Wani id the wife and she has responded it was she who said that about the dying minority.. That in mind you might want to take another look and see if you get anything else from it and then post that. You have some good points.

C5H11ONO said...

http://www.otmj.com/2015/05/25297/
They started the pushcart business in June of last year at the Woodlawn Street Market. They then opened their store on April 4 in West Homewood.

The couple met in Washington, DC and lived in Delaware.

They may have lived in Woodlawn which is another neighborhood near Homewood. they must have moved there recently. Maybe someone wants to move back to Woodlawn?

Anonymous said...

the letter is typed. Why? does someonewish their print or cursive notbe reconized?

perhaps someone in thearea hoping to cash in on the inter racial marriage for their own purpose or cause?

Bet there are several inthestate of ala. and not just California.

Matt Whan said...

Full capitalisation suggests a desire to conceal identity.

The letter looks tto be addressed to David alone suggesting a few things: familiarity, a racist mind, or more like someone who wants to appear racist, a personal interest in David's love life (possibly family, close friend, or former love interest). I would be interested to see if he had been married previously, or left behind a serious relationship prior to "leaving" to wherever he went.

Wording is soft. It is only "hard to imagine", that he would come back with a black wife, not disgusting, disappointing, or a betrayal of some sorts I would expect someone motivated to writing this would feel.

Note three paragraphs which indicate to me a pause in thinking, especially with the last sentence " or go back to Woodlawn". Author is offering a choice, not an ultimatum. There is no "leave or else" tone to the words used. There is no implied threat, just a vague reference to recipients roots, and an even more vague impression of disappointment.

It was either written by a woman, or by an individual who is aggressively passive, and shies from conflict.

SOP is curiously added. I would be interested to find out whether the recipient had history in either law enforcement, security, or military. Such a thing is not expected, and may have been used out of familiarity, or the author's personal dictionary contains this acronym, and is used often enough to become habit.

Anonymous said...

Typed and glued address suggest attention to glue, as most could address an envelope via computer without cuttingandpasting. Their business is cash based, which lends to the possibility someone would like to be paid to find out who is levying such animosity agin them.

It would be likened to steling safe deposit keys and finding someone had rolled the stone away.

MemphisPat said...

Woodlawn is part of Birmingham and Homewood is a "whiter" suburb next to Mountain Brook, the mostly white and wealthiest suburb of Birmingham.
Just my opinion but it seems this couple may have wanted to reap the marketing benefits of the enormous sympathetic public sentiment following the murders in Charleston. New businesses need publicity. Maybe they were turning what once was a negative in the Birmingham area into a way to make their business known? Sure doesn't sound like a hate note.

Frannie said...

The thing that stood out to me is "SOP" (standard operating procedure) would be common language for someone with a military or law enforcement background.

Anonymous said...

I once knew a fella, years ago mind ya, that had a difficult time keeping change in the vending machnes he installed in laundro-mats, car washes, and cigerrette machines not to mention the sodie pop pops that got hit.

Yep! It reeks of y advertising works better than yours.No one makes lue suede shoes anymor5

Aurora said...

The language in the letter is extremely mild: written by female.

The word "DAVID" while capitalized like the rest of the letter is also written in BOLD: To me this indicates the writer not only knows David but is fond of David. She "likes" David. He is special to her, hence the bold letters.


"It is hard to imagine": this is mild language and points to a female, it is also points to the "imaginary" or "fakeness" of the hate in the letter
The author(ess) is imagining like a fiction writer.

"a Birmingham boy": maternal with the use of the word boy

"leaving": this word should be highlighted according to SCAN???

:"and bringing back a black wife" (very mild language--no racial slurs)

I believe the wife wrote the letter.

Aurora said...

"You need to move to California where that is SOP": don't most people think of gay marriage being legal when they think of California? Perhaps the writer has unconscious or sublimated anger towards her husband wondering if he is gay?

ken-d said...

"black wife" -- author of note didn't say "black woman" -- which is more distancing and seems more appropriate for an author who finds it hard to imagine a white boy marrying someone "of color"

author may be close to the couple or the "black wife".

Aurora said...

That thought would also embrace Peter's belief that anonymous hate letters are oftentimes written by sexually confused writers. It could be that both she and her husband are gay. I do not associate CA with interracial marriage, only gay marriage.

Red Meat said...

"oftentimes written by sexually confused writers."

That's what I thought he said at first but a follow up implied the confusion is with the analysts, not the writer.

Aurora said...

I've changed my mind. I think the husband wrote it. I think the husband is sexually confused. Highlight the word "leaving" according to SCAN and pay careful attention to what comes after it. I think when hubby "left" he did more than just bring back a "black wife". Perhaps he experimented with men? I associate CA with gay marriage and I think most people do also. It seems to me the husband is "acting out" with this letter about people not approving of "different" marriages but I think what he really has on his mind (what he is really concerned with) is gay marriage.

Aurora said...

Red Meat, I disagree. I think SCAN needs to be used with the letter, because I think the most important part is what he did when he "left". I think that is what is on his mind, and I don't think that it is "bringing home a black wife".

Red Meat said...

Aurora-

Peter Hyatt wrote:

"*Statistic is about sexual confusion. Please note that this confusion is often viewed as "confusion", not by the author, but by others in the collateral interviews that say, "Oh, he is not gay" while someone else saying, "I know for sure he is gay." This disagreement, among collateral contacts is the classification of "confusion" and statistically, is tied strongly to anonymous letters. "

jen-d said...

"black wife" -- author of note didn't say "black woman" -- which is more distancing and seems more appropriate for an author who finds it hard to imagine a white boy marrying someone "of color"

author may be close to the couple or the "black wife".

(sorry username supposed to be jen-d)

Aurora said...

The husband said "I LOVE my beautiful black wife and everything about her, (most everything about her). Our love for one another is far deeper than skin color."

"most everything about her": what doesn't he love about her? Could it be the fact that she is female and not male?

"far deeper"---sensitivity. he is going over board to prove how deep his love goes
I "LOVE"---it seems he likes to capitalize just like the letter writer, something I feel also that is quite feminine (capitalizing to emphasize). Also this is sensitive, why does he need to capitalize it?

Anonymous said...

The language in the letter is to soft.

Game over!

Aurora said...

Red Meat, I think what Peter meant by that is that those who know the actual hypothetical (anonymous) letter writer have varying opinions about the individual's sexuality with some opining "He seems gay" some saying "Oh he is not gay!"

Red Meat said...

That makes sense in terms of what he meant. Still, without actual numbers, data, or sources, I'm skeptical there's anything to it.

If these contacts know the actual letter writer and can opine about his/her sexuality, how is the letter writer anonymous?

Anonymous said...

the flies won't even light on it in my area. Perhaps because of the imitation: right red, rolled in 3/4 lb and lobbed a crossed ab area that isn't condusive to ur 60's stlyed. Want someone to listen to ur 3rd rate crap then puhleeze consulte some1 in ca. even the slant-eyes imitated eggs!

K9 gives no permission to proceed. Cease at once!Develope new code.. Old one had been done ad nauseum.

We know who we are. We only solvecrimes that invove the color orange! give up your post as a bonafide dumster diver at once! DThe river calls the color, dthose who survive know the code.. We don't need your new abd improved detergent.

Red Meat said...

A few thoughts

I'm not convinced either of the Shaws wrote this- especially the wife. Not saying I think they didn't; I'm just not convinced they did. The timing if it does give me pause.

It sounds like a Southern male to me. The "Birmingham boy" sounds like a native Southerner as does the "leaving and returning". It sounds like an elder who knew and had different plans for David.

There is a mix of items that show knowing David in the past vs not knowing him now. If it were one or the other, I might think fake. Here I lean to real.

I disagree with posters who say there's no insult here. Just because there's no n word or physical threat doesn't mean it's so mild to not be offensive. "Black wife" is what I'd expect, especially from someone who, as I said, knows him and had different goals for him. He doesn't just have a fling but a lifetime commitment, potential for children. The person expresses disappointment in the marriage. The left and bring back, since he went to Boston, seems expected from someone who doesn't like his choices. Also, bring back "wife" makes me think of

I admit, I am starting from a point of trust and not setting out to prove he or she did it, which is what I think we are supposed to do.

I believe a Ronica from Long Island or her business partner sister wrote that fake letter. I believe Julie from Md wrote her fake letter.

This sounds like it's from someone older, who knows David and wishes he made a different choice. Someone who was in his life but is now somewhat estranged but follows news of him.

Red Meat said...

Oops- left off

Also, bring back "wife" makes me think of an arranged marriage or going to get a bride. Did I read correctly that his wife is an immigrant? Either way the language paints her not only as black but an outsider. Again, makes me think of someone older.

Anonymous said...

This is ridiculous. There are a lot of mixed, bi-racial and multi-racial couples in Birmingham, Alabama. This is not uncommon at all.

Red Meat said...

Anon at 8:32

That's beautiful and ominous all at once!

Are you looking for this site:

https://poetry.submittable.com/submit

Aurora said...

Red Meat, I found your observations interesting. But click on the link above in Peter's post for their business Magic Sweet Ice--check out what comes up when you clikc and then click on "About Us"---you can see this guy has a tendency to use capitalized "initialisms" like the letter writer does with "SOP" (Standard Operating Procedure).

Aurora said...

Also, in his initialisms, he leaves out periods in between letters just as anonymous letter writer does. I think it's the husband but I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Red Meat said...

It's something Aurora but In the texting age, no one puts those periods in anymore and do use acronyms a lot. Also, David's writing, especially sentence length, shows he's pretty educated. The letter doesn't. If it's faked to come across as less educated I'd expect grammar, spelling or punctuation errors beyond completely leaving punctuation off. David's paragraphs are pretty long and the letter's are short.

Anonymous said...

This guy wrote the letter. He did to get business to his small business. Which in the grand scheme of things he isn't asking for donations from what I see, and I hope this doesn't become a new thing. Sad that this is the state of things nowadays...having to lie and gain sympathy for benefit.

Anonymous said...

awakened froma deep, deep sleep...I heard: auto huler rollin down Shelby Rd.,,,sine from gawd? am i durnk? mayB

these are cause bandits. they run their causes 'til the Real God comes along along and washes 'em awy.Fresh fom the English dept., theys torment until sumone does their will. Or, at best, the will of their fathers. We get it! Beleive me,we do. And, we do.

sellin' trinkets and not conforming to mainstream beleifs. Is that the point?

Not a day goes by I do't tinker about ur ilk. Will they provide a fill in theblank card for survival? Y do dumber people live on...and on....and on? Yep, U guessed it! So they can never escape the 60's and 70s which saw the most horrific unkindness of man upon man.

Why is this noteso important? To train the yuths in the way of the world? o'tay...we get it let it be. Puhleeze, just let it be. Three times I ask: just let it be.

Lemon said...

I think the greeting "DAVID" shows familiarity.
"A Birmingham boy" is very soft, almost an endearment.
Noted is the inclusion of "leaving"
"a black wife" is much more respectful than the "expected" racial epithet. Noted it includes the term "wife" - an acknowledgment on the relationship that exists between them.
"You need to move" Why "need"? Who has the "need"? What is the "need"? Why is there a "need"?
"that" What is that? Shows distance.
"SOP" standard operating procedure shows a familiarity with systems, management, possibly LE or military
"Or go back to Woodlawn" Soft language offers an option. Order shows priority of California, then Woodlawn.
The inclusion of Woodlawn is specific, California is general.
There are specifics in this that seem to indicate the writer is familiar with David, details of his life, and his relationship with his wife.

Peter, did a woman write this letter?

Red Meat said...

What's up with the letter writer saying move to California...or back to Woodlawn? I read on his FB someone said Woodlawn is a community near B'Ham. So it seems someone is telling him to move far away but then has second thoughts and names a black neighborhood in the area...struggling with being pissed at him for personal reasons- rejecting him but then not really. Passive aggressive?

This just seems to be more personal than "we don't want your kind (or her kind) near us," a general racist comment to stink it up and get publicity. This is more personal and emotionally complex- the racism is more about hurting him than truly taking issue with interracial marriage.

I also want to point out I think one part of the wife's statement to media moves from thinking about race and differing generational attitudes to one about "wanting more". Sending the letter and using the publicity once it's there are two different things. I also think it's natural to want to speak to the person who sent it, especially to defend your life choice and defend your wife. If he realizes it's someone he knows, responding on his personal facebook account makes sense to me.

I would really want to ask him about relationships with family members, resentment about his leaving, marrying, starting the business. Were there family members who did not like the idea of this business?

Again, there's just an emotional complexity to it I wouldn't expect in a faked "racists hurt us! Buy our Italian ice!" letter.

Aurora said...

Well people, I see everyone's point.
Let's look at the letter one more time.

What is the reason the "letter writer" feels David should move?

Is it because he/she hates blacks? Hates his black wife? Hates interracial marriage? if he did not say it, I cannot say it for him.

What is the actual reason the letter writer supplied for wanting David to move? His reason was "It is hard to imagine." STOP.

Was it "hard to imagine" what should be written in the fake letter?
Are there are other things about David that would be "hard to imagine"?
This is about thoughts in someone's head about David and what they are capable of imagining about David. Not about hatred. If the letter writer did not say it (hate) I cannot say it for him.

Aurora said...

It is possible this letter is David's way of projecting self-consciousness about what other people are thinking or imagining about him. I think that someone hiding their true sexual orientation would certainly be prone to those kinds of thoughts.
There is no need for "imagination" when it comes to David's interracial marriage. Anyone can see before their eyes he is white, she is black. This is about something David is hiding about himself.

just sayin' said...

It does seem like there are similarities between the text on the Magic Ice website and the "hate" letter - acronyms, bold, and capitalization. I would want to know who authored the text on the website - husband, wife, employee?

Red Meat said...

You lost me on both counts Aurora.

The letter doesn't say "hate" so you can't say it, but somehow you can say it's about sexual orientation, even though there's nothing about that at all?

blu said...

Rather then all this convoluted sexual affiliation hypotheses, couldn't it just be about attracting attention to their brand new business by generating community support? Occam's razor and all that...

scarlett loves rhett no ashley no rhett said...

I live in Birmingham and Woodlawn is NOT predominently white. Do your resrearch first.

Aurora said...

Red Meat,

I certainly can say that because the letter did not say anyone hated anyone. The letter tells me it's reasoning for wanting David to move. The reason is about something that is "hard to imagine" about David. I need no imagination at all to see he is married to a black woman and in fact has 3 children with her.

Aurora said...

Blu, How much business can it possibly drum up? An extra serving of cherry ice shavings? A large instead of a small? We're talking about items that cost a buck or two.

Aurora said...

I will leave you with one final thought before I retire to get my necessary 3 hours of slumber.

What name do we love hearing the most in life?

Answer: Our own name.

Please look at the bold lettering this gentle hate-monger has written David's name in.
Showing how special his name is to the writer.

Red Meat said...

Good point Aurora.

I may like hearing my name, but the names I like the best and say the most are my kids'- and when I really want them to hear what I'm saying, I raise my voice.

James Russell said...

Peter, Do you have enough here to do an analysis on this story and what this person said. She was a former bus driver for the Wake County Public School System. She has accused of and arrested for assaulting two students that were on her bus route on May 12th of this year. I found several inconsistencies in the statements that she made. This is the opening statement that she made "I'm am not gonna punch no child in no stomach" I think she did by looking at and reading her statements

http://www.wral.com/wake-school-bus-driver-resigns-after-being-charged-with-assaulting-students/14734152/

Anonymous said...

“I'm not gonna punch no child in no stomach, that’s crazy,”

she said. “I am not going to lose any sleep over this because I know I did not do this.

She makes two denials, neither one is reliable


Read more at http://www.wral.com/wake-school-bus-driver-resigns-after-being-charged-with-assaulting-students/14734152/#Vz8CEZ1PuVc3rh3g.99

Red Meat said...

Here's another

Reliable denial?

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7650360

A Texas firefighter who lost his volunteer position over a Facebook post that appeared to support alleged Charleston gunman Dylann Roof says he's not a racist and that his comments were taken out of context.

Kurtis Cook had been a 23-year veteran of the Mabank Fire Department when wrote "he needs to be praised for the good deed he has done” in the comments section of a Charleston newspaper's story about Roof, who allegedly shot and killed nine people at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church on June 17.

Cook said he wasn't referring to Roof, but to someone else who posted a comment.

"When I was looking at the threads and, you know, I was just reading down and there was a person there that posted, was donating a large sum of money to the victims," Cook told local ABC station KLTV. "So I just said, 'This person ought to be praised for his good deed.'"
Advertisement

After numerous complaints, the department investigated the comments, fired Cook and banned him from its property.

"The Mabank Fire Department does not condone nor promote these type of actions or thoughts," the department wrote on Facebook. "On behalf of all members, the Mabank Fire Department offers our deepest apologies to all that were offended by his actions and comments."
The fire department told KLTV that Cook didn't deny the post and asked what the problem was, but Cook said the agency was under so much pressure that he just let them fire him. However, he says he's not a racist and he doesn't support Roof.

"Making me look like I'm standing with this comment, like I'm supporting this Dylann guy, and I would never do that. I'm not racist, never been racist," Cook told KLTV. “I've never treated any incident different, regardless of what their race or religion was, ever."

Cook said he's worried he'll now lose his full-time job as well, and told the station he may have to move as a result of the post and all the attention it has received.

Peter Hyatt said...

RM,

Among other techniques you've learned here, put yourself into the shoes of the accused and ask yourself, not only what you would say, but what your actions would be regarding being falsely accused.

What sayest thou?

Peter

Red Meat said...

I would have brought it up sooner for one. Both in terms of the original reporting of it and in terms of getting to the meat of it in the statement.

I would have started "I was talking about the man who donated all that money. I was not referring to Roof."

He seems to be stalling before getting to the key detail. "I was reading...I scrolled down...was a person there..."

I think I would have said "that" comment rather than "this."

I don't think I would have said I've "never" been racist because if I searched myself, I could not be sure I've never had a racist thought or statement.

rob said...

The hate letter is so nice, that it's not a hate letter. I agree with most here, that he probably wrote it himself, to capitalize on the current racial tone of the Charleston killings, and wants to get people to say, let's give them our support to prove we are not racist.

Peter Hyatt said...

RM,

I agree with you.

would you have "allowed" yourself to be fired?

Peter

RM said...

rob- he received the letter in late May, before the shootings.

Peter- No, I would not have allowed myself to be fired for praising a man who donated a lot of money.

Peter Hyatt said...

Read Meat wrote:

I don't think I would have said I've "never" been racist because if I searched myself, I could not be sure I've never had a racist thought or statement."


end quote.

You won my respect.

Peter

Red Meat said...

:)

rob said...

Thanks Red, I withdraw my comment

Peter Hyatt said...

People lack honesty and especially emotional intelligence. Your post showed both.

Peter


As to the "Fake Hate" note: She is aware of the potential consequences of withdrawing the money, pushing it to the realm of criminal.

It is a calculated risk.

$43,000 free money versus possible prison.

She has a support group who will be encouraging her to with draw it, hoping to cash in on the 'movement' in one form or another, versus likely close family members who say it is too risk.

They must ask,

"Can a prosecutor prove the assertion that she wrote it herself?"

The amount of money is a factor.

If you were a juror and you were shown basic analysis, along with comparison of writings, including the newer "no more capitalization" pattern, would you find her guilty?

It is one heck of a gamble.

tania cadogan said...

Her latest post on the relentlessly gay website BBM

Julie Baker Kim thank you, I apologize for being twitchy, some of this stuff has been really scary and it seems that everything is making me jump. I think part of what gets to me is the fact that this letter happening was one of the least disturbing things that has happened since I moved into this area. It doesn't happen terribly often, but some things have been ugly, even when my husband was alive.
I hope the police gave you what you need, its all been pretty casual with them on my end, stopping by my house to assure me they are there, calling me to see if anything else has happened. Though I don't think there is anyone in the world stupid enough to actually leave another note after all this stuff. I guess I am not handling all this very well and I have been sick for the last few weeks so all this on top of being sick i guess just has amplified my twitchy.
1 hr · Like


Another quote

Julie Baker I would appreciate the officer not being harassed, they have bad guys to deal with, not filling internet pages. Kim, thank you for submitting changes, I noticed the conjecture went up really fast. The note was left money the 16th. I hope in the future the site does its best to get all of the facts before posting stories. There are many victims out \there of crimes that run the gammon of strange and difficult to believe, treating a victim like a sideshow attraction is cruel and dangerous and feeds sociopaths.

tania cadogan said...

from the snopes relentless gay page BBM

In a separate Facebook conversation, Baker stated that she had engaged in a “productive beneficial conversation with the police [and] they were satisfied” but cautioned us that she would “appreciate the officer not being harassed, they have bad guys to deal with, not filling internet pages.” She added: ” … treating a victim like a sideshow attraction is cruel and dangerous and feeds sociopaths … please also understand that I am not under investigation.”

On 24 June 2015 we spoke to a detective at Baker’s local precinct, to whom we were referred by individuals connected with the Relentlessly Gay campaign. Although Baker had stated the previous day that police were “satisfied” with her claim, the detective to whom we spoke said that Baker was either unwilling or unable to produce the letter in question, and that she had maintained it was no longer in her possession. The detective also indicated that he had attempted to meet with Baker in person the previous day but was unable to do so.

Read more at http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/18/relentlessly-gay/#J8pOdlZc3bEjm5cb.99

Red Meat said...

money the 16th.

Haha! Good catch, Hobs!

tania cadogan said...

I feel almost smart at catching that one and all without the aid of coffee or a safety net :)

Jen Ow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jen Ow said...

Great work, and analysis on this one Hobs!

Jen Ow said...

I noticed the 'money' slip too...gee, I wonder what was on her mind??

blu said...

I'm not talking about upsizing Aurora I'm talking about substantially increasing foot traffic when the community responds with an outpouring of support. there is a precedence for that in I'll be up past hate hoaxing.

blu said...

your most important action has been missed. It says he's not going to fight being fired. if you didn't say what you were being accused of saying once your first action be to say hold up you're not going to fire me I didn't do anything wrong.

blu said...

$0.02 I noticed that it said money also but I didn't read too much into it because she may be dictating this via her phone out which is what I do now because I have an injury to my hand I don't know if you've ever used the phone app but he will say some really bizarre things when you mean to say something else. For example I recently left a text message voice dictation for my in laws which was intended to apologize for my bad mood but instead said I deeply regret my micro penis. I didn't notice this until I hit send. I realize this is a longshot but it is possible that she is dictating this into her phone my friends and I do this a lot but right now I'm relying on it and everything I write is via speaker microphone.

Matt Whan said...

"Money the 16th"

I noticed it but dismissed it as inconclusive. Unless it was written by hand, or the statement was made and recorded by voice, then I could see the slip up as sketchy.

Two words: Auto Correct. It is likely statement was written by phone. Anyone used to texting are likely slaved to hitting the "suggested" word rather than type it out completely and thus fall victim to "autocorrect fail".

blu said...

great job as always Hobbs! what drives me no end of crazy is that her proponents are actually suggesting that it's okay if someone lies as long as something good comes out of it or the rivers as long as something good comes out of it doesn't care it doesn't matter how you achieve that end. want to take that a little further and say if that's okay have they done similar things themselves in the past? Eleanor has run GoFundMe under the name of blueberry miracle girls or blueberry girls miracle. it does beg the question it also if you were assisting her in her campaign and there was even a whiff of impropriety wouldn't you immediately think could I be indicted on this if she were arrested for fraud as a co conspirator? I don't know about anybody else to prove some just paranoid but that is exactly where my mind would go maybe I just have a deep seeded fear of prison or going to jail for someone else is wrong. I don't know it just really pisses me off when I see them say why are you guys what do you guys care so much if it was a lie? I care if it was a lie because I really really want her to get caught like it would be very satisfying to see her get caught. that said I so appreciate everybody on this site being so diligent to make that happened.

Matt Whan said...

Exactly! My thoughts are of the real victims who behaviour like this ruins the chance for them to get restitution, or even help for that matter. It's not like her GoFraudMe page is raising awareness. If it is, to what? Gay people are accepted everywhere. Same sex marriages, are becoming more accepted all over. Awareness that people have the capacity to be jerks? We're all human. I think we understand that capacity.

It angers me when people like her lie and cheat and steal, and get away with it.

Anonymous said...

How long will Peter keep us in suspense regarding David's letter? Are there not enough clues to reach a definitive conclusion?

Anonymous said...

Blu, That is unfortunate and I would not dictate by phone if you are contacting anyone you intend on dating if your phone is prone to doing those sorts of things.

Anonymous said...

Has Julie said what her "illness" is yet? I see she has mentioned it multiple times. Stay tuned...I'm sure it will be a serious one, and more funds will pour in. I'm sure it will also interfere with her ability to decorate her yard in the relentlessly gay manner she promised she would with the funds.

Nic said...

The opening salutation is familiar and direct/authoritative. "David", not "Dear David". It also matches the tone of the letter, which is "telling".

The author describes two different events 1) leaving Birmingham and 2) bringing back a black wife. So, whomever wrote this note is someone who was born and raised and continues to live in the community. I would say the author watched David grow up, (surprised that David would leave the author's town,) so he is older and perhaps even retired.

Family is important to the author, (wife as opposed to woman).

The author gives David two choices as to what he "needs" to do. (My impression of need is a veiled, authoritative threat (being told what to do without question)). One is either moving far away, or if wanting to be close to 'home', then Woodlawn where the author insinuates he "belongs" with his black wife. Segregation is the author's intent. So the author is prejudice.

SOP = standard operation procedure. The author is someone who worked in a union environment, be it in government, LE or manufacturing of sorts. Whatever the environment they probably worked within management and they are use to telling people what to do and people doing as they say.

There is no punctuation. It reads like a telegram (minus the "stop). So there is a sense of urgency and importance attached to this note.

Lastly, I don't know if it's just the lighting, but "David" appears to be in bold font. If it is intended to be bold, the author is commanding that David listen and act as per the author directs him to.

Nic said...

Something else. The author comes from an era where typewriters were used in the everyday work environment. Interesting that they wouldn't use the envelope feature in advanced printing (or even an Avery Label sheet). Instead they typed and then printed the address onto a blank piece of paper and cut it out and affixed it with tape.

I think this is a retired, white male. Family man. Upper middle class. A respected elder in the community where David grew up. Known to David (first name basis). He could have addressed the note to his home address; but instead chose the work address. Perhaps the author was in the shopping district David and his wife's business is located and didn't know that David was back (David and wife living in a different area of the city).

Sus said...

Beginning with the envelope,
-The writer did not know how to run an envelope through a printer. He instead printed off the address, cut it out and taped it. Not proficient on computers.
-He had the wrong address, leaving off the WEST. It could be that he got the address from the article which shows a poster only saying Homewood. It could also be that the writer isn't familiar with the newer section of Homewood. Has he been gone?

Now the form:
-All caps, each sentence spaced, no periods. This is military style. My husband was a radioman in the navy during the Vietnam era and this is how he writes to this day.
-David in bold with no greeting, commands attention, yet shows familiarity at some point in life.

As to the letter:
-"It is hard to imagine..." In the present tense. It makes me think the writer is just now seeing this, yet they've been married since 2008. They've lived in the Birmingham area since 2010. It collaborates that the writer saw the article about opening their store.
-"a Birmingham boy.." The writer is defining David as part of a group. And reading further, that group is segregated and exclusive.
-"leaving and bringing" This is continuous action. There is no ending. If David wrote the note and it were an action, I'd say he was deceptive. But I know this action happened. He left. He brought back a black wife. So what's going on here? Possibly the writer was not in Birmingham for years.
-"bringing back a black wife" sounds derogatory. It sounds like he brought an undesirable into our midst.
-"a black wife" objectifies her.

Sus said...

-"You need..."
The writer has changed the focus from Birmingham boy to YOU. Now he is focusing on David and shows that David is different, not part of the group because he has a black wife. He tells him what he NEEDS which assumes a familiarity and attitude of how it's done in Birmingham.
-"to move"
Not go, but move. To move conjures up taking ones family, having a new home and community. The writer slips in a bit of caring for David here.
-"to California"
Words don't come out of a vacuum. Has the writer been to California?
-"where that"
That is distancing.
-"SOP"
Military, police, management

-"or go back to Woodlawn"
OR offers a choice. Again, the writer is showing some bit of caring for David.
GO is a change of reality from MOVE. It was move (a home and community) to California. It is go to Woodlawn. I understand that Woodlawn is considered a mostly segregated black community.

Anonymous said...

Sus- the writer also had "713" as the street address rather than "715". And called the business "Magic City Ice" and left out the "Sweet," a more feminine word.

Sus said...

Thanks anon, I didn't know that. Leaving out sweet is rather interesting. He couldn't make himself write it?

Red Meat said...

In the 1970s California was seen by some as a "hippie commune, free-love" kinda place, the most culturally progressive place in the country. I remember a saying from the decade that cultural trends happened in California 20 years before they hit the rest if the country. Berkeley was the center of counter culture. I think this narrows down his age (baby boomer or older) and tells us a little about his politics. The guy isn't from California and rejects its "progressivism." He's saying David's choices don't fit with Alabama. It's an insult more than a genuine request to move, which is seen in the offering of a second "moving" option- one fairly close by. I agree with Sus, he cares about David but takes issue with his life choices.