Tuesday, September 27, 2016

Indicators of Sexual Abuse in Language



Jonbenet Ramsey murder is back in the news again.  

The Grand Jury indicted John and Patsy Ramsey for "death by child abuse" in the case, with Alex Hunter, the DA, using passivity in language to conceal, for many years, his refusal to sign the indictment.  In an upcoming work, a full analysis of the ransom note should tell us:

1.  The intention of the ransom note:  the author's priority
2.  The background of the author, including gender, race and age 
3.  The experiences in life of the author, including education, life experiences, beliefs, and so on. 
4.  The personality of the author.  Is the author cruel, and without human empathy?  Or, is the author...?

If you wish to know if the threat is real, or the threat level, you must know the one making the threat. 

Know the author and you'll know the threat.  

Let's take a look at sexual abuse indications within language. 

Any word in a sentence that is not necessary to complete the sentence is very important.  It took more effort for the subject to use, making it important to him.  What sometimes is difficult to understand is:

Why?

It is the question, "why?" that we seek to understand.  We ask, "Why does the subject feel it necessary to include this in the sentence?" and explore for the answer.  Sometimes the answer comes in the interview, but other times it comes in context, or by the statement itself.  

Three Specific Elements:  Lights, Doors, and Water 

Lights:  

We note that references to "lights" in a statement are often indicative of sexual activity.  It can be positive (completed or 'successful') sexual activity, or it could be failed (incomplete, disrupted) sexual activity.  Sometimes the context helps us understand. Light speaks to energy, and sexual arousal, itself, has a physiological reaction that is both a producer and a result of energy.  

Doors:

Doors are sometimes noted within language, when used unnecessarily, by those who have been sexually abused in childhood.  

This is not difficult to understand why.  

When a child is sexually abused, the trauma is dependent upon the brain's reaction.  The child who is pre-speech is especially going to have long term consequences.  Consider the impact of cortisone and other hormones with elevation without any quick receding:  post trauma imprint is acute and can leave an imprint for many years.  For some, it means hyper- vigilance while others, without processing the information, can be set off by certain smells that trigger memory.  For some, the sound of the bedroom door opening, itself, lasts a lifetime.  These victims will sometimes mention "doors" where there is no necessity of doing so, in an open statement. 

The adult victim of childhood sexual abuse may reference "doors" without necessity in an open statement.  

When asked about how he found his murdered daughter, Jonbenet, John Ramsey did not say, "I found her in the basement", which would be plain and direct.  Instead, there were two distinct "steps" he takes in his account, both with stories all their own, and both vitally important to him and the case:  

"I opened the door, turned on the light, and there she was."  John Ramsey 

In the case of Jonbenet, we had a sexualized child, frequent urinary tract infections, and bed wetting.  When taken together, along with the language of the parents, it becomes evident that she was being sexually abused.  

Water

We note that references to "water" in a statement are often indicative of sexual guilt, need for cleansing, and can be found in sexual homicides. 

Amanda Knox gave linguistic indication of being present for the murder of Meredith Kertchner, and when she said that she and her boyfriend took a shower, she went into detail; unnecessary detail in that, which is often associated with sexual homicide.  She talked about how her boyfriend "washed my ears" and "my neck", and so on; all unnecessary inclusions. Her statement is "sexual homicide language 101" for classic study.  

Sexual Homicide

"I drove down I 95, stopped to get gas, washed up and proceeded..."

The above shows the need to explain why he stopped, but includes a reference to water and in the kidnapping and sexual homicide, it pointed to the time of death.  Most would not feel the need to say they washed their hands or anything other than getting gas...a sexual homicide is different.  

The commonalty of all three is "unnecessary" language.  

We cannot, for example, enter a house without opening the door, yet few feel the need to add this detail.

"I went home and had dinner."

This is a very straight forward sentence.  Now compare it to this:  

" I went home, opened the door, and  had dinner."

The additional and unnecessary wording has a story to tell and investigators and analysts must be listening.  

To sign up for a full training course in Statement Analysis, host a seminar, or for experienced analysts, an Advanced Course, contact Hyatt Analysis Services

97 comments:

Carder Gravitt said...

As always, good stuff, Peter!!

Nic said...

Thank you, Peter. Someone recently posted a statement from Burke from the morning of JonBenet's murder that included his mom opening the door, turning the light on, looking around and leaving. I was like, wow, and then I thought the abuse was rampant. I know you've done a lot of analysis on this case in the past, Peter, but you get better and better. It will be interesting to read your full analysis of the ransom note.

Trigger said...

With all the linguistic indicators in the Ramsey family for sexual abuse, is it probable that Burke was also sexually abused?

Turner said...

Is it possible Dr Phil could be worth anything and believe they're innocent? Have 4 shows on The Ramsey's then defend them and proclaim their innocence? How can all his education, continuing education and experience not lead him to statement analysis?

Imagrandma said...

Peter, I haven't watched the show yet, because I've been recovering from a bad case of shingles and have yet to have my daughter look up the show for me, but your article will be something I use when listening for linguistic indicators from Burke about what may have gone on in the house.

Anon "I" said...

Burke is so detached, its almost like this Burke wasn't there at all.
Could he have walled off all memories somewhere in his brain and be
only as aware as his brain is allowing?

Jasmine said...

AnonI, our minds think alike, been wonderfing the very same thing about Burke.I was sexualy abused too and it left me in something like a fugue state. My physician told me my anorexia at age twenty was caused by deep repression. That possibly could be the case for Burke, the repression I mean.

Anonymous said...

"We note that references to "lights" in a statement are often indicative of sexual activity. It can be positive (completed or 'successful') sexual activity, or it could be failed (incomplete, disrupted) sexual activity".

What is the difference between turning "lights" on, and lights" off ("sexual activity"), if any.

Ney said...

These are the strangest answers from Burke. (Dr Phil interview)

Burke on the ransom note: "I don't think I've read the whole thing, I've definitely seen pictures of it. I've never really looked at it closely, I'll see it and get taken aback and it's not something I really want to look at a lot."

Handwriting of ransom note : "...Honestly, I think it's too sloppy."

on the 911 tape voices: “I definitely don’t remember that unless someone erased my memory or something,”

Burke on himself “I think I look like a normal kid."

His interview made me believe, he knows what happened that night.

Anonymous said...


Turner, I think Dr Phil is just in it for the money, and he knows that he will make more if he plays nice with the Ramseys.

Nic said...

Ex-Housekeeper Says Patsy
Ramsey Killed JonBenet

http://www.rense.com/general11/benet.htm
[...]
Former Ramsey housekeeper Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, speaking publicly for the first time about her testimony before the Boulder County grand jury, told reporters Thursday:

* She thought Patsy Ramsey had killed JonBenet.

* The grand jury seemed to zero in on Patsy Ramsey, and she thought it would indict her.

* A Swiss Army knife was found in the basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

* "Only Patsy could have put that knife there. I took it away from Burke (JonBenet's older brother) and hid it in a linen closet near JonBenet's bedroom. An intruder never would have found it. Patsy would have found it getting out clean sheets."

* Pieces of rope were tied around JonBenet's neck and wrist when her body was discovered Dec. 26, 1996.

* The blanket wrapped around JonBenet's body had been left in the dryer. There was still a Barbie Doll nightgown clinging to the blanket, so it had to have come out of the dryer recently, she said. Only Patsy would have known it was in the dryer, she said.

* An intruder never would have found the door to the basement room where JonBenet's body was discovered. It was too difficult to see unless someone knew it was there, she said.

[...]

She said she told the grand jury that Patsy had become very moody right before Christmas of 1996. "I think she had multiple personalities. She'd be in a good mood and then she'd be cranky. She got into arguments with JonBenet about wearing a dress or about a friend coming over. I had never seen Patsy so upset.

Anonymous said...

Why hasn't the heart drawn on the palm of JB been addressed (as far as i'm aware, anyway) it maybe nothing or it could be some sort of symbolism.
Was JB in the habit of doing this, if indeed it was her. Was the pen/marker ever found?

Nic said...

http://www.people.com/article/burke-ramsey-1998-interview-from-jonbenet-ramsey-ae-documentary

[...]

Of the morning JonBenét went missing, Burke – squirming in his seat while sipping from a soda can – said in the interview that he remembered his mother, Patsy, rushing into his room and turning on the lights before looking around and rushing out.

"I just lay in bed with my eyes closed and like sort of thinking of what might have happened to them," Burke said of his actions, noting, "I just heard my mom going psycho."

The boy said he never left his bedroom while police and neighbors came in and out of the house, explaining that he was "so scared."

He said that he was "worried" for JonBenét, and he didn't realize until he went with his parents to a family friends' house that she was dead.

"I thought JonBenét was gonna be there, I thought they found her," he told the detective. "I came in excited ... almost relieved ... then my dad [John Ramsey] told me that JonBenét was in heaven."

___________


"them"
Is this dissociative behaviour?


Burke saying his dad told him that JonBenet was in heaven when they got to friends... had JonBenet been found by that time? I thought Burke was shuttled to friends' and JonBenet was found later that afternoon.

Anonymous said...

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/28/americas/serena-williams-police-violence/index.html?sr=cnnitw

Devil's Advocate said...

"In the case of Jonbenet, we had a sexualized child, frequent urinary tract infections, and bed wetting. When taken together, along with the language of the parents, it becomes evident that she was being sexually abused."

Based on the 2-part CBS Special, and taking the statements made at face value, I believe that Burke had a fixation with feces. If he was truly leaving balls of it in his sister's bed, smeared around the bathroom, etc., this could be the source of JonBenet's UTIs.

I know this will sound crazy, but I think that Burke knows he hit her and left her lying somewhere either dead or unconscious. But he got scared and went to bed, without even finishing his snack, and was probably dreading morning when he'd get yelled at.

Then morning comes. What awakens him is hearing his mom on the phone with the dispatcher, talking about a note and a missing child. I think he managed to make himself believe that AFTER he hit her, some intruder did the rest. I do not think his parents ever CONFRONTED him about what had happened, they just went into cover-up mode.

It sounds ridiculous to think that ANYONE would believe that (by pure coincidence) someone came and kidnapped their sister after they had clubbed her with a flashlight, but he was NINE, young enough to believe in Santa Claus and fairy tales.

As someone who was told a HUGE lie by a parent at about the same age, which (despite being pretty outrageous) I believed for more than FORTY YEARS before there were so many things (red flags) that did not add up that I did a little digging and learned it was a story she made up for attention.

His attitude in the two early interviews shown (age 9 and age 11) both seem pretty sketchy. He is so DETERMINED to avoid identifying the food in the dish as pineapple that it is almost comical. And the way he responded to the first interviewer, just weeks after the murder, was emotionless. He talked about his mom "going psycho" on the phone, and about "going on with his life" and joked about the media that had tried to find him at school.

He probably knows he hit her, and knocked her out, and hoped to get in bed and pretend to be asleep before she woke up crying and went to tell on him. He KNOWS he did NOT tape/tie/garrote her, or put her in the crawl space, and since his parents said that an INTRUDER did it, and that this person left a note, Burke probably (wishfully) believed them.

Nic said...

Anonymous @ 7:30,

I think the red heart is moot. School age kids draw on their hands all-the-time. Girls especially usually have crayons, pencils, pens, various arts and crafts supplies. The girls could have been colouring and drawing earlier in the evening.

tania cadogan said...

Could burke's alleged fixation with his faeces, playing with it, leaving it on Jonbenet's bed and smearing it on walls etc be a possible indication of sexual abuse?

It can be a sign of emotional distress and it would warrant investigation.

John mcgowan said...

OT:

MAN RESCUED AT SEA WAS SUSPECT IN GRANDFATHER'S MURDER

BOSTON -- (WTIC) -- Court records show that a former Middletown, Connecticut man who spent a week on a life raft in the Atlantic Ocean was a suspect in the unsolved 2013 killing of his grandfather in Windsor.

Documents obtained by FOX 61 show Nathan Carman, 22, was investigated in the fatal shooting of 87-year-old John Chakalos.

According to court documents , Carman was the last person known to see his grandfather alive on Dec. 20, 2013, because he had dinner with him at his home in Windsor and Chakalos was found dead the next morning.

Windsor police submitted an arrest warrant for Carman to a prosecutor, but it was returned unsigned with a request for more information. Carman was never charged.

On I-91 in Windsor, there’s a billboard in honor of Carman's grandfather, John Chakalos, along with a reward offered for information in his 2013 murder. In July 2014, Windsor Police Officer, Russell Wininger, was demoted from a detective to a patrolman after withholding information in the case.

http://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/09/28/man-rescued-at-sea-was-suspect-in-grandfathers-murder/



Coast Guard Audio with Nathan Carman

Coast Guard Search and Rescue Controller Richard Arsenault speaks with Nathan Carman on the freighter Orient Lucky on Sunday, Sept. 25, 2016. Nathan Carman was found by the crew of the Orient Lucky abut 100 nautical miles south of Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts. (U.S. Coast Guard audio)

https://www.dvidshub.net/audio/45072/coast-guard-audio-with-nathan-carman

John mcgowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John mcgowan said...

Cont..

Another article:

The Coast Guard interviewed him and prominent Connecticut defense attorney Hubert Santos said Carman "fully cooperated" with the Coast Guard. He would not disclose what Carman told the Coast Guard, but said the boat sinking was an accident.

Carman left the Coast Guard base in Boston at about 2 p.m. Tuesday with his father, who flew in from his home in California.

The Coast Guard had hoped to find out what happened to his mother when she and Nathan went fishing off the coast of Rhode Island on September 18 and weren't heard from since. For about a week, the Coast Guard searched roughly 60,000 square miles for the pair.

The following Sunday, Nathan was spotted by a freighter on a raft about 100 miles south of Martha's Vineyard. He was said to be in good condition.

Carman told the Coast Guard he heard a "funny noise" in his boat's engine compartment, saw water pouring in, then lost sight of his mother before he boarded the life raft.

Carman can be heard describing what happened in audio of a phone call released Tuesday by the Coast Guard. A Coast Guard officer talked with Carman by phone after he was rescued Sunday by a passing freighter.

In the recording, Carman said he and his mother were out in his fishing boat when it began to rapidly take on water. He said when he saw the life raft, he did not see his mother.

"Have you found her?" he is heard asking the Coast Guard. The officer tells him they have not found her.

The Coast Guard said it did not receive a distress call when the 31-foot aluminum boat sank. At a press conference Monday, the Coast Guard said they would not resume the search for Linda, as she is presumed dead.

“She was unprotected from the elements. She had no fomissing perod, no water, and there were also no other life rafts aboard the 'Chicken Pox,'” said Petty Officer, 3rd Class, Nicole Groll.

Meanwhile, Windham County, VT, Sheriff Keith D. Clark said that they executed a search warrant on a request from police from South Kingstown, Rhode Island, Monday night. Documents show they seized a cable modem, a SIM card and a letter written by Carman. According to the search warrant, investigators are looking for evidence to charge Carman with reckless endangerment.

http://fox61.com/2016/09/28/man-rescued-at-sea-was-suspect-in-grandfathers-unsolved-murder-records-show/

John mcgowan said...

Partial transcript:

Snipped:

A police affidavit issued to obtain the search warrant of the Vermont home “indicates that Linda and Nathan had different intentions as to the final destination of the fishing trip.”

Linda, it states, thought they were going 20 miles off shore. Nathan, according to people he spoke with before he left, had other plans to take them roughly 100 miles out. “I thought he said the canyons which are off Block Island,” said Mike Iozzi who struck up a casual conversation with Nathan hours before he left the dock.

“I didn’t see him with fishing poles,” Iozzi told CBS Boston. “I didn’t even see him with food.”

The affidavit also stated that Nathan’s boat was in need of mechanical repair.

On Sunday, Nathan was found drifting in an inflatable raft by the Chinese freighter Orient Lucky, about 100 nautical miles south of Martha’s Vineyard.

There was no mayday call and no radio transmission of any kind from the fishing boat, according to the Coast Guard. On Tuesday, the Coast Guard released audio of their conversation with Nathan after he was rescued by the freighter.

Mom and I, two people, myself and my mom were fishing on Block Canyon,” Nathan said. “There was a funny noise in the engine compartment, I looked and saw a lot of water.

I had my mom bring in the reel, I brought the safety stuff forward,” Nathan said. “I was bringing one of the safety bags forward and the boat stopped out under my feet. When I saw the life raft, I did not see my Mom. Have you found her?”

Coast Guard Search and Rescue Controller Richard Arsenault responded, “No, we haven’t been able to find her yet.”

Nathan told Arsenault that after he got to the life raft, he began whistling and calling and did not see his mom.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nathan-carman-lost-at-sea-vermont-home-search-linda-carman/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=29286252

Anon "I" said...

Jasmine- I am so sorry for the abuse you went through and hope
you have healed and are able to look forward.

Anonymous said...

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/33264872/sidney-moorer-set-to-be-released-from-jail-on-wednesday

Anonymous said...

When John ran for state representative in MI in 2004, and he and Patsy gave an interview to Deborah Norville.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5498466/ns...public-office/

DN is surprised he wants to run for office, and JR says, " Well, Deborah, life goes on.* You‘ve got to keep moving forward.". Which reminded me of statements BR made.

John says, "I‘m very confident.* But, at the point they tell me, look, we have exhausted everything and there‘s no more we can do, then I will believe there is no more they can do.* But I think they‘re going to—I think they‘re going to get the guy."

Patsy says, "I am very optimistic.* Until the day that they tell me they have done everything and they cannot find the killer, then I will give up.* But, until that day, I will not give up.* The DNA has been so instrumental in releasing people who were exonerated—erroneously."

Exonerated people erroneously? I would think she meant to say convicted people erroneously? Leakage?

Tiffany Gerik said...

My hypothesis is that one of the children were abused that night by John. John says he went to help Burke build a toy, the abuse might have happened then, triggering Burke later that night (afterward). Obv, I could be very wrong! JB wets the bed that night and gets a change of underwear, so perhaps he didn't touch Burke but touched JB instead, triggering her to bed wet. Burke eats his pineapple in the bowl, there's a lot still left in it, so he didn't get much eaten. JB grabs a piece from the top (not touching the bowl) while mom is upstairs packing (John is going to bed at this point or, perhaps, showering?). Burke gets angry.

There could be some taunting/sibling rivalry going on about Christmas presents or what not. Burke at some point abandons his snack and hits JB (I think because no parents were around to help censor any argument that might have played out). He leaves her down, feeling scared at what he did and knowing he'll be in big trouble. He perhaps goes to his room to sleep, but the next big question is: when was the fecal matter rolled and deposited in JB's room? Did he go up to her room while he knew she was "asleep/dead" and leave the poop as an aggressive/anger thing? Then, he goes to bed and tries to sleep.

Waking up, hearing mom freaking out at some point. "What DID you find?" Burke asks over the 911 call. John grunts: "This isn't about you!" showing anger.

Now the parents are in cover-up mode for their son. The Maglight has no prints on it, the drawer where it was held is left open, the pineapple is left on the table, because the parents don't realize it's pertinent. Fecal matter is on JB's room, and the parents also don't know that or else they'd clean it up.

After watching Dr. Phil's special, Burke shows no remorse or empathy over the loss of his mother or his sister. He's incredibly callous and casual about the whole thing. I also noticed that his father, while interviewed, was not interviewed alongside his son. Tension between them still?

Phil also showed an obvious bias towards Ramsey's innocence, which was frustrating to watch. He asked nothing but soft ball questions. The only thing pertinent to come from the interview, IMO, is 1) the footage of the child psychologist and Burke after the events unfolded and 2) his lack of empathy over his dead family members. That "duping delight" smile he wears the whole time is unnerving and he only drops it after the footage comes up--he wasn't expecting that!

Remember what the Ramsey's said in the first CNN interview: "We just want to know why this happened. Why." Not who. They know who, but they don't understand why. And neither do I!

C5H11ONO said...

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mirror.co.uk_tv_tv-2Dnews_watch-2Djonbenet-2Dramseys-2Dbrother-2Dbeing-2D8831048&d=DQIFAg&c=cUkzcZGZt-E3UgRE832-4A&r=mvq1Swxzir7X1mFSRVLQQnBhY0cBKU5xrAVBwMRfm98&m=-iLv_Wa0ncl0Y7T35luaV0G5zacUuz7XmTirJ7yCPMY&s=gaNSCoppQ1Shh0vk-Vct1TNIRRiyZnqYJ8lOSHlMTx4&e=

Part of Burke'sninterview with police. There is a reference to doors. I also noticed that he told police that he was awake when Patsy went into his bedroom. He said he had his eyes closed. I dont know if police asked him why he was awake. According to Patsy she got "up" at 5:30 am. Why was he Up too? He didn't tell the detective that he was woken by his mom, but rather that he was laying in bed with his eyes closed.

Nic said...

@ Tiffany,

I strikes me odd that Burke would define fun on Christmas morning as "JonBenet" falling on her bike. I've read the quote over and over again thinking that I've read it wrong, but I keep reading it the same way. She fell on her bike and that was fun! ??

Nic said...

@ tania,

If I recall correctly, Peter did mention faeces in the same breath as sexual abuse but he would have to comment further. The only reason it sticks with me is because an acquaintance of mine used to clean houses for a living and I remember her telling me she dropped a client because one of the kids always had faeces in his room (hidden between the wall and the bed) "every time" she went (bi-weekly). At the time she told me this, I wasn't reading Peter's blog otherwise I would have told her to call Children's Aid to investigate them. Upon reflection it makes me really sad for that kid and what he is probably having to live with to this day.

Ode said...

Off topic

U of Michigan college allows students to alter pronouns to their personal preference

I throw up - IF Professors accidentally use the Wrong, according to who? pronoun, oh the student, .... Why bother having a hands on, face to face professor ?

Preferred pronouns will appear on class rosters, and if professors accidentally use the wrong pronoun, “you can acknowledge that you made a mistake and use the correct pronoun next time,” said the university’s provost and vice president for student life in a campus-wide email announcement. It also called using preferred pronouns “one of the most basic ways to show your respect for their identity and to cultivate an environment that respects all gender identities.”

A university spokesman tells Heat Street, “If there were a persistent pattern of ignoring a student’s preference, we would address that as a performance matter.”


read it here

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/28/university-michigan-professors-instructed-to-stick-to-preferred-pronouns.html

Turner said...

The CBS show that aired last Monday on Jon Benet was dead on. They dismissed a lot of evidence. Dr Spitz & Henry Lee proved touch DNA evidence could have come from manufacturing. (By opening new packaged clothing in a lab with gloves & examining).
The showed how the flashlight found in Ramsey's house fit the point of impact blow to her head. The flashlight & batteries were wiped completely clean of ANY fingerprints. TheY PROVED the 2 marks on her body were NOT from a stun gun. & showed how a stun gun does not subdue a person but energized them and would've caused her to scream for her life; everyone would've heard her.
They showed how a piece of the train track joint fit perfectly into the two marks on her.
Then, they went through a larger portion of Burke's psychology interviews. They were chilling.
I've always thought claiming Burke did it was ridiculous but absolutely believe he did it now and the parents covered it up.
*please watch that special!! Doubtful anyone would argue against their points. And none of it refuted what I've already believed through statement analysis.

Elsa said...

JonBenet's doctor said that she wasn't often sick, and that she didn't have more than two Urinary infection. So where does frequent illness come from?

The fecal matter is new to me.
As much as I have read about this case, strange I didn't see this anywhere.

I do not trust rumours or "someone said".

It is obvious that the parents killed JonBenet, imo.

ima.grandma said...

FYI:
http://www.childtherapytechniques.com/The%20Symbolism%20of%20Windows%20and%20Doors.pdf

StinkyPants said...

"Most urinary tract infections are caused by bacteria that live in the stool. If stool is sitting around the vagina or on the perineum, this will increase the chances of the bacteria making it to the bladder. Therefore it is important to maintain good personal hygiene and cleanliness after bowel movements and make sure that wiping always occurs from front to back."
http://www.urologyteam.com/node/359

If Burke was depositing feces in her bed, rubbing it on the bathroom w3alls, or leaving it in the bathtub, this alone could explain the frequent UTIs.

Anonymous said...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nathan-carman-man-rescued-sea-suspicions-compound-grief-mom/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=29353241

snip

In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, Carman said he did everything he could to find his mother, 54-year-old Linda Carman, of Middletown, Connecticut, as their boat went down.

“What happened on the boat was a terrible tragedy that I am still trying to process and that I am still trying to come to terms with,” he said.

“I don’t know what to make of people being suspicious,” he added. “I have enough to deal with.”

Carman on Wednesday denied having any role in his grandfather’s killing.

“My grandfather was like a father to me, and I was like a son to him,” Carman told the AP. “He was the closest person in the world to me, and I loved him and he loved me, and I had absolutely nothing to do with his death.”

In his will, Chakalos left an estate worth more than $42 million to his four adult daughters, including Carman’s mother.

Windsor police Capt. Thomas LePore said Wednesday that the case is still open and that Carman remains a “person of interest.”

In the course of investigating the killing, authorities said in the search warrant that they learned from family members that Carman had a history of violence as a child, including one incident in which he allegedly held another child “hostage” with a knife. The documents also said Carman had several alarming episodes while he was a high school student, although no details of those incidents were given.

aliceinchainsgirl said...

I always thought s.b.t.c ment save burke the child. Or sincerely burke the child.

tania cadogan said...

Off topic

It has been more than a year since Amanda Knox was exonerated in the murder of her British roommate Meredith Kercher, but the infamous trial is once again in the spotlight thanks to a new Netflix documentary.

Knox appeared on Good Morning America to promote the special on Thursday, and acknowledged the fact that despite being cleared of all charges many still believe she is guilty of murder.

'I think I'm trying to explain what it feels like to be wrongfully convicted,' she said about her aim with the documentary.

'To either be this terrible monster or to be this regular person who is vulnerable. And what I'm trying to convey is that a regular person like me - a kid who was studying abroad, who loves languages - could be caught up in this nightmare where they're portrayed as something that they're not.'

Knox also hit out at the prosecutor in the case, saying he made the proceedings more about her and less about the actual victim - Kercher.

The 29-year-old was photographed arriving to the studio early Thursday with her new boyfriend, writer Christopher Robinson.

Host Robin Roberts asked Knox about how she thought the Kercher family would deal with this new documentary, and the fact that their daughter's murder has been the subject of so much media fascination over the past decade.

'For them that's never going to end and that's the really sad part about this tragedy,' said Knox.

'As soon as the prosecutor made this about [me] she's been lost in all of that. But that doesn't change the fact that we have an obligation to everyone who could be innocent to find out the truth.'

Knox said her primary focus now is helping others who have been exonerated as they try and get their lives back on track.

'Now my attention is turning towards the next person. My name is cleared. I'm fine, I'm moving on with my life, I'm going back to graduate school, I'm redeveloping my relationships.

'I'm redeveloping my relationship with freedom.'

Knox then added: 'But there remains the fact that I'm in a unique potion as an exoneree. Once an exoneree always an exoneree. I can't go back to my life that I had before, and neither can the other exonerees that are out there.

'And a lot of times their stories go overlooked.'

Knox also revealed that she was not paid to participate in the new documentary.

Italy's highest court overturned Knox's conviction in the brutal murder and sexual assault of Kercher in March of last year.

However, the court did uphold Knox's conviction for falsely accusing her former boss, Congolese-born bar owner Diya Lumumba, of the murder.

She was sentenced to three years on that charge in January of this year but given time served as she had spent longer than that behind bars in Italy after being charged with the murder of Kercher.

In May, the European Court of Human Rights agreed to hear Amanda Knox's case challenging her slander conviction due to the fact that Knox claims her admission was coerced by police, who refused her access to food, water and the bathroom after her 2007 arrest.

Knox spent nearly four years in jail after being convicted and sentenced to 26 years in her initial trial.

The court battle went on for seven and a half years, with flip-flop decisions that saw her return to the United States after being acquitted only to face another trial after the acquittal was thrown out.

She then faced her second appeals trial and high court proceedings in absentia while living in Washington.

Rudy Guede was convicted of Kercher's murder back in 2008 and is serving a 16-year prison sentence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3813631/I-terrible-monster-regular-person-Amanda-Knox-provocative-new-documentary-questions-innocence-says-prosecutor-forgot-victim-Meredith-Kercher.html

Anonymous said...


Jon Bennet's scatolia, enuresis, and daytime soiling of her clothing are common symptoms of Reactive Attachment Disorder. I believe these symptoms arose from Jon Bennet being emotionally and physically tortured by her mother Patsy. There are many examples of Patsy's inappropriate parenting. Here are a few: Patsy forced her 4-6-year-old child to sit with stinky bleach on her hair for 45 minutes every 3 weeks. Hair bleach causes itchiness and burning. Patsy inserted and removed colored contact lenses in her little child's eyes to change their color. Family friends described Jon Bennet's daily life as being completely filled with private modeling, dance, singing, and poise lessons. Every weekend, Patsy took Jon Bennet to a competition. Jon Bennet competed all over the USA and several times in Europe at the ripe old age of six.

Anonymous said...

How do you know any of those things as facts ie. bleach, colored contacts etc?

Anonymous said...

You're not capable ofdiagnosing psychological problems or attachment disorders in Jonbenet because you have no idea how she felt about her mother or interacted with peers.
I can see in hindsight that I had an attachment disorder, and it did not cause any of those symptoms, but I certainly did have an attachment disorder...I hated my mother from age 2 onwards (a feeling of repulsion) and did not want to go near her, did not feel any warmth towards her, even despised "female" things like sewing, cooking, playing with dolls bc I associated those with her. I did not want to be like her or emulate her because I was repulsed by her due to abuse from her that was bad. . I would say that qualifies as a lack of attacment. However, I had no problems with peers, interacted appropriately, had lots of friends, got straight A's in elementary school. It was just a logical feeling of this person (mother) is evil, stay away from her go in other room, pretend she's not around, stay away from her starting at age 2 onward. That is an attachment disorder--all an attachment disorder is is a logical feeling of I cant stand this person and I want to get away from them. How is that a disorder? If an adult wants to get away from another adult bc they dont like them, is that a "disorder"?! You have no idea how Jonbenet felt or may have coped in her situation. You are not capable of psychologically diagnosing her.

Misha said...

Finally. Justice can now be done. Poor little Erica.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/erica-parsons/body-of-erica-parsons-located/327865792

tania cadogan said...

Off topic

SALISBURY, N.C. – Authorities expect to release more information next week after finding the body of a North Carolina teenager last seen in 2011.

Chesterfield County, South Carolina, Sheriff Jay Brooks says the body of Erica Parsons was found in his county Tuesday.

The Rowan County, North Carolina, sheriff's office says the North Carolina Medical Examiner's Office confirmed the remains as being those of the teen. The sheriff's office said a news conference is planned.

Parsons lived with her adoptive parents Casey and Sandy Parsons in Rowan County from 2000 until she disappeared in 2011 at age 13. She wasn't reported missing until 2013.

The Parsons were convicted of accepting benefits for the girl for years after her disappearance.

They said the girl went to live with her grandmother in Asheville. No grandmother has been found.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/30/sheriff-to-release-more-information-about-teens-remains.html

Peter Hyatt said...

Regarding the post about Reactive Attachment Disorder.

I have not considered JBR in this way. It is rare and when present, it is unmistakable.

However, in reading why the poster considers this, it is something worth exploration. No one is "diagnosing" but considering, and in this case, the poster gave not just an opinion, but the reasons for the opinion.

It is something I intend to explore.

In an upcoming training manual, I hope to publish a complete analysis of the Ransom note. By "complete", I mean much more than the obvious, but I intend to identify the author by:

Background
Experiences
Priority
Personalty type

I thank the poster who put up the thoughtful RAD comment. It is insightful, and although I don't know, it is worthy of much thought and discussion.

Peter

Anonymous said...

Peter,

I agree that it is worth discussing particularly in light of Jonbenet's frequent bed-wetting (and supposed frequent urinary infections--perhaps Patsy was seeking an explanation for the bedwetting)...the poster did not explain the part about Jonbenet having scatolia (I thought Burke had that). But do we know for sure who had it? Could have been one of the parents for all we know.

It is a big question mark regarding the 40 doc visits over 2 yrs for urinary infections & the bedwetting (the doc said she only had 2 infectiins) . There are also physical neurological conditions that can cause that, bedwetting, daytime accidents etc) such as spina bifida (which I am assuming Jonbenet did not have?).
Jonbenet does seem to have been emotionally tortured by the mother.

Anonymous said...

The Ramsey's denials, in regards to killing JB, in my opinion, are reliable. They consistently express it. In the free editing stage, and in open statements. If you watch Patsy' interview/interrogation, being accused (murder), and you enploy "SCAN" principles, she is having none of it. She challenge;s everything. Even to a point were she tells them, you're wrong (aggressively) go do your job ptoperly, or words to that affect.

What they are guilty of, is, covering up, and staging to protect, Burke.

tania cadogan said...

off topic

BATAVIA, Ohio – An Ohio man accused of drowning his 4-month-old daughter in a river while she was strapped in her car seat has been sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Clermont County's prosecutor says 24-year-old Charles Crawford pleaded no contest to an aggravated murder charge and was sentenced Friday in Batavia.

Authorities issued a statewide alert July 31 for Kaylynn Crawford after Charles Crawford told them she was abducted from his car outside a store in Loveland. Investigators say Crawford later confessed to putting her in the river while she was strapped in her car seat.

Police say Crawford led them to the body along the Little Miami River in Miami Township on Aug. 1.

Authorities haven't commented on a motive.

A message left for Crawford's attorney wasn't immediately returned.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/30/dad-accused-drowning-baby-strapped-in-car-seat-gets-life.html

tania cadogan said...

Off topic BBM

CHESTERFIELD COUNTY, S.C. -- The body of Erica Parsons has been found, according to a law enforcement source.

NBC Charlotte has learned the body was discovered in Chesterfield County.

In August, Rowan County Sheriff's Investigators obtained new leads that confirmed Erica was more than likely deceased. On Tuesday, FBI Special Agents and Rowan County detectives located the skeletal remains of a young girl. The remains were taken to the State Medical Examiner's Office, where they were identified to be that of Erica Lynn Parsons.

Chesterfield County Sheriff Jay Brooks says Erica's body was found in a small grave on a dirt road about a mile south of Highway 9 between Pageland and Mount Croghan

Sheriff Brooks confirmed Friday that Sandy Parsons, Erica's adoptive father, was brought from prison to point out exactly where Erica Parsons was buried.

After her remains were found, Sandy was immediately taken back to federal prison where he and Casey Parsons, Erica's adoptive mother, are both serving sentenced for fraud charges related to the disappearance of Erica. Sandy Parsons was convicted of 43 fraud charges at federal trial in October 2014 and Casey Parsons pled guilty earlier that same month.

The Medical Examiner is now working to determine Erica's cause of death.

Erica was reported missing by a relative on July 30, 2013. The relative advised investigators he had not seen Erica since November of 2011 when she was 13-years-old.

Erica's adoptive parents said the girl went to stay with relatives in the Asheville, North Carolina, area and had not seen her since. Sheriff’s Investigators determined that information was not true.

The FBI, Rowan County Sheriff’s Office, and North Carolina State Bureau of Investigations continued to follow leads related to the case, leading them to North and South Carolina, as well as California.

On Friday, FBI Special Agent John Strong said, "There is no way to adequately explain the collaborative efforts between law enforcement agencies and prosecutors who have worked tirelessly for the past three years to find Erica."

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children also assisted in the campaign to publicize Erica’s disappearance with updated missing posters.

“Erica had not been seen by family members for more than a year and a half before anyone notified law enforcement. For that reason, finding Erica has proven to be a challenge, we’ve faced many obstacles, but we will not stop looking for this little girl. She deserves to be found, she deserves for someone to come forward and help us find her,” said Sheriff Kevin Auten.

“The recent discovery of Erica Parson’s remains is heartbreaking. There is no way to adequately explain the collaborative efforts between law enforcement agencies and prosecutors who have worked tirelessly for the past three years to find Erica. Erica’s adoptive parents, Sandy and Casey Parsons are serving federal prison sentences related to fraud uncovered by the FBI during the missing child phase of the investigation. As the case moves forward determining exactly how Erica died and whether or what criminal charges apply will be a state issue. The FBI will continue to offer support as appropriate to our law enforcement partners at the Rowan County Sheriff’s Office as their work continues,” said John Strong, Special Agent in Charge of the FBI Charlotte Division.

A press conference will be held next week.

http://www.wcnc.com/mb/news/local/erica-parsons/body-of-erica-parsons-located/327865792

Hey Jude said...

It might be worth considering if Burke has an attachment disorder, too.

(I'm reading James Kolar's 'A Foreign Faction' - (Kindle edition) - lots about Burke - would recommend to anyone interested in the Ramsey case.)

Lis said...

I have experience with a RAD child that I cared for. I have a hard time picturing JonBenet having RAD because RAD children are extremely oppositional. JonBenet allowed herself to be dressed up and she played the part that was dictated to her- well enough that, from what I understand, she was a frequent winner of these competitions. A RAD child would be more likely to sabotage the mother's desires for her to appear a certain way and to win those awards and accolades. As for Burke, though, I don't know much about him.

Lis said...

"I can see in hindsight that I had an attachment disorder, and it did not cause any of those symptoms, but I certainly did have an attachment disorder."

Anonymous, there are problems caused from poor attachment and then there is Reactive Attachment Disorder. Reactive Attachment Disorder occurs when an infant is subjected to such extreme abuse or neglect that they are unable to bond with their mother/caretaker. As a result, their ability to bond with other human beings is destroyed. It's very extreme.

I do agree with you, though, that it would be difficult to diagnose someone without knowing a great deal more about them. But, again, I doubt that JonBenet would have played along with her mother's desires and won all those awards. She'd have found sneaky ways to destroy her costumes, muss up her fancy hair dos, mess up her routine, sabotage her photo shoots, make her mother look foolish, lose the contests, etc. RAD kids are in a constant battle for control and they cannot submit themselves to anyone else's instruction or desires. You just cannot fathom RAD unless you've lived with it. I'm not saying it's impossible she had it, but I doubt it. That isn't to say she didn't have other psychological problems, though. And there's only so many ways a child can act to show that something serious is wrong. It takes an expert to sort that all out.

Anonymous said...

Lis,
My daughter was adopted as a toddler from an orphanage. She has RAD. This has sadly made me an expert on RAD.

Jon Bennet soiled her clothing with feces and urine during the night and day. Clean clothing is absolutely essential for beauty competitions, so the threat of feces and/or urine appearing at any moment in any pageant gave all the control to Jon Bennet.

Patsy took Jon Bennet to 18 doctor visits in her final 24 months of life. It's very likely that the extreme number of doctor visits was related to Jon Bennet acting out feces and urine. Urinating and defecating on herself and in her room were acts of extreme opposition.

Peter Hyatt said...

A few thoughts on RAD:

I have a love/hate relationship with psychology. Criminal psychology produces marvelous statistics that are more useful than I can express, in my work. Psychologists --- I have met too many who have obvious unresolved mental health issues, and have read so much illogical nonsense that it can discredit the studies in the minds of many.

RAD

I don't trust narrative driven psychologists' diagnosis techniques. I have read many Psych evals that were designed to elicit state dollars. Period. I knew workers who told psychologists exactly what was needed in the eval. So many were done without strong collateral interviews and even those that were, were done without discernment. Remember, doctors needed deception detection training...a la Sherlock Holmes mentality.

Now, having said this, RAD is not always diagnosed correctly and the blurring of lines is almost a norm.

RAD children often are not so much oppositional, but simply distant. They may become oppositional after being pushed and pushed, but often, their first reaction is no reaction at all; just ignoring the adult.

Jonbenet: what we know of her through several things, warrants contemplation.

*Parents used language that showed sexual abuse, either active, or in their own childhood.
*JBR was dressed provocatively and the work behind the scenes suggests hours and hours. This was a CHILD with HGH coming out of her like every healthy kid. Sitting still for hours??

*Incessant bed wetting

*Constant UTI

Child protective workers see this as "strike one, strike two, strike three..." regardless of wealth.

The videos show an active child. The mother's language regarding bonding, while attempting to sound close, suggests otherwise.

IF she had RAD, or my choice, "RAD-like behavior" (much safer) it would be a major trigger for Patsy. For Patsy's own upbringing, she is many times more likely to behave passively with John's sexual abuse, than not.

RAD can show itself as oppositional...but it also shows itself in submissive indifference.

Anonymous said...

Lis wrote ". Reactive Attachment Disorder occurs when an infant is subjected to such extreme abuse or neglect that they are unable to bond with their mother/caretaker."

Yes, I understand that. I did not bond with my caretaker, and the abuse was extreme. I avoided my caretaker and did not feel any type of warmth or bond with her. I may have had RAD--I was friendly with outsiders instinctively sensing other people were better.

Peter is absolutely correct that (and I can see this clearly in hindsight) when the child avoids the parent, the parent senses this and becomes internally enraged and will attempt vicious forms of retaliation. The psychologically sick and usually sadistic parent objectifies the child so much that he or she is unable to see why the child would be repelled by their behavior.
Jonbenet may have had RAD but may have also had some form of Stockholm Syndrome with Patsy due to the dynamics of Patsy's sadistic treatment of her (and yes I believe it was sadistic) combined with great praise I am sure if she won these contests. We do not know whether Jonbenet performed in the beauty pageants due to severe emotional manipulation or theeats of violence, or both. It is likely some form of both were used.

Anonymous said...

Are you saying JBRs dad sexually abused her?

Anonymous said...

I think after considering this thoughtful discussion, I just figured out what was happening in the Ramsey house.

Having seen Burke on the police interview as a child and then on Dr Phil, he seems to me like he has mild aspergers which is unlikely to give rise to such a disturbed behavior as fecal smearing...this is a behavior much more associated with severe autism.

I think Patsy was the one leaving poo in Burke's room to both blame him for signs of behavior Patsy herself was doing (which involved feces) as well as get extra attention probably from doctors regarding Burke's (fabricated) behavior.

I think Patsy was using feces to try to infect Jonbenet to cause her to get UTI's. As one poster had mentioned the other day Burke may have been pooping in bathtub and thus infecting Jonbenet, BUT I think what was really happening is that Patsy herself was probably infecting the bathwater with feces to try to make Jonbenet infected. The only problem for Patsy was that despite taking Jonbenet to the doctor 40 times in 2 years for suspected UTI, Jonbenet was only found to have a UTI on TWO of those occassions. Evidently whatever Patsy was doing to try to infect her simply wasn;t working as often as Patsy wished...perhaps Patsy was putting the poop in the bathwater and it just was not making Jonbenet get infected very often.

I think Patsy killed JOnbenet. I think it was premeditated. The housekeeper had said Patsy was incredibly moody for the 2 weeks before Christmas, and I think what happened is that yes, Jonbenet had won Little Miss Christmas but this did NOT quell the boiling rage inside Patsy that Jonbenet was not getting "sick" (infections) nearly enough as she wished like a good little medical torture victim (which is exactly what children of MSBP Moms are (torture victims who are expected to get sick or injured according to the Moms whims).

I think the way Jonbenet was found tells us what was done to her...I think the way she was killed by Patsy...it tells us what Patsy was angry about...there is a sick symbolism that has to due with Munchausen by Proxy and medical abuse. Jonbenet was found on a table in the basement (there are examining table's in a doctor's office where Patsy brought her very frequently) and she was attacked by Patsy's paintbrush in a horrific way that shows what Patsy was angry about...Jonbenet was not getting UTI's all the time (hardly ever) as Patsy wanted. Even the knocking her unconscious has some medical symbolism in that doctor's will administer drugs to make their patient's unconscious for certain procedures or surgery.

This is what I believe happened, and the main clue is that Patsy sought constant medical attention for UTIs with Jonbenet and only 2 out of 40 times did she actually have one. There is no way that Patsy could not have had MSBP. And quite frankly, the way Jonbenet was found I believe was an expression of Patsy's rage against Jonbenet that she was not getting UTI's all the time like Patsy wanted. That is another clue.

Anonymous said...

How then could PR and JBR practice and audition and compete if intentionally making her ill? Did not peter say john was molesting JBR?

Me2l said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Patsy was attempting to make Jonbenet ill is what I am theorizing and it is a fact that Patsy brought her to the doctor 40 times in 2 years (so obviously that did not interfere with her competing in pageants because it happened) but Jonbenet only had 2 urinary tract infections. That has MSBP written all over it. Patsy was probably seeking attention from the medical profession via Jonbenet when she wasnt getting attention from competition from the pageants. That is fairly common for MSBP Moms on the more severe end of the spectrum to attempt to induce illness using fecal matter. Was John molesting her also? Possibly. But I believe absolutely that Patsy had MSBP. If you look at the dynamic of the way Patsy used Jonbenet for vicarious attention through the pageants it is strikingly similar to the way MSBP Moms use their children. Patsy viewed Jonbenet as an object, to some degree "altering" (injuring) Jonbenet through the painful bleach treatments and insertion of colored contacts combined with her objectification of Jonbenet and "presenting" her at pageants to get attention....the actual attempts to inflict illness onto Jonbenet to get attention for herself would be just a continuation of that dynamic.
I do feel that when Patsy had an actual doll made to look like Jonbenet (this contained symbolic expression of how Patsy viewed her...as an object) and said that the doll that looked like Jonbenet "looked like it was in a coffin" was a telegraphing of Patsy's plans to kill Jonbenet.
Patsy I feel was profoundly psychologically disturbed. I have read a lot about MSBP including a lengthy handbook for law enforcement/FBI to recognize and prosecute MSBP cases, because I wanted to understand the psychology of the perpetrators. MSBP Moms who are on the more severe end of the spectrum who inflict/induce illness or injury pose a very serious and potentially lethal threat to the child.
Also the way Jonbenet's doctor praised Patsy as being such a wonderful Mom despite evidence that points to MSBP (40 visits with only 2 actual infections) is very typical bc MSBP Moms have an unsurpassed ability to persuade medical professionals (who should know better) that they are wondeful caring Moms. It's really a very disturbing thing--MSBP...and the perpetratos are very skilled at impersonating caring Moms and getting doctors to do their bidding.

Anonymous said...

But...harming her trophy is contradictory. An ill doll cannot compete successfully. Neither a doll who has died. 40 Dr visits may've been precautionary. Perhaps knowing JBR was being abused. Housekeeper said it was her brother and feces, not PR.

Anonymous said...

Since one or two pose as six to ten. Then when the one or two arent blogging theres no commenting.

Anonymous said...

Anon, that makes no sense to say the visits were "precautionary"! For UTI's? How does the housekeeper know for sure it was Burke's feces? Did she see him put it there? It really doesnt matter if they were Burke's feces...Burke leaving feces around would just give Patsy plenty of readily available fecal matter to use to try to give Jonbebet UTI's.
If you read the handbook (about 300 pgs long) for LE/FBI on MSBP you will understand the psychology of the perpetrators and you will understand that if Patsy was hellbent on infecting Jonbenet in that specific manner and it wasnt working often (and perhaps Jonbenet began fighting back against Patsy's attempts to infect her), Patsy could well have decided to kill her both for the attention she would receive as a grieving mother and out of rage that Jonbenet was not "getting sick" often enough or she may have been fighting back against Patsy and Patsy had no younger victim to move onto so she may have decided to kill Jonbenet. And if you think about it, if Patsy wanted attention by killing Jonbenet, she got plenty didnt she? People will be discussing this case 100 yrs from now.
Also, as a sidenote, perpetrators of MSBP typically enjoy police attention as it fulfills their need for attention from an important authority who they can also seek to manipulate (similar to their manipulation of doctors).
The psychology of MSBP Moms is very similar to a psychopath but actually more disturbing imo.

Anonymous said...

It doesnt matter? A 9 yo spreading feces on wall & sisters xmas candy box is psychotic. The housekeeper is closest to family members and cleans up there messes.

Anonymous said...

Anon,

I have a well-developed theory, and you are just picking at semantics. I meant it didn't matter in terms of the theory I was presenting, because it did not change my theory and my theory accounted for the possibility Burke was the one spreading the feces around.

Unless someone saw Burke doing it, I would not automatically believe Burke was the one doing it. You have no problem (and I have no problem) accusing Patsy of lying profusely about participating in and/or committing a gruesome murder against her own daughter (and possible "staging" although I don't believe there was staging), yet it's outside the realm of possibility that Patsy would lie about the fecal matter...particulary within the suspicious context of excessive numbers of doctor visits for suspected UTI's which suggest attention seeking through MSBP? Yeah OK. You're right. Patsy would lie about murdering her own kid, write a fake ransom note, but she wouldn't lie about feces. I often wonder if I am the most logical person here besides Peter, because this is simple logic! If someone lies about huge things, they are likely to lie about smaller things.

Anonymous said...

PR attempts to discreetly infect JBR w/feces but fails nearly 40 times? Where is it stated the 40 Dr visits were for UTI? How bout more likely bed wetting which may've been caused by stress. PR may've assumed UTI, but the Dr knew it wasnt. Bed wetting not caused by infection but psychological distress.

Anonymous said...

Why would someone bring their kid to the doctor DOZENS OF TIMES (40) in 2 years for bedwetting? You dont think thats severely excessive? And Jonbenet was NEVER referred to a urologist? What would Patsy expect the doctor to do? Did she think on the 30th visit the doctor would have a magic cure for bedwetting? It sounds to me like she was essentially subjecting Jonbenet to sexual abuse through excessive unnecessary exams. HER REASON FOR BRINGING JONBENET TO DOCTOR 40 TIMES WAS UTI (WITH 38 OF THE VISITS BEING FALSE ALARMS! WHY WASNT JONBENET REFERRED OR BROUGHT TO A UROLOGIST?!?! Noone can look squarely at this, dysfunctional, pointless, abusive medical behavior towards Jonbenet and not see how severely pathological it is (with the doctor doing Patsy's sick bidding). Patsy was hellbent on Jonbenet being "infected" with UTI's, so that she coukd be abused in that specific way by the medical profession. Jonbenet was probably wetting her bed from being traumatized from the doctor visits and whatever Patsy was doing to her. And then just a "coincidence" Jonbenet was attacked by Patsy with the paintbrush handle? No. That attack was the culmination of Patsy's MSBP in my opinion. The way Jonbenet was found...what had been done to her...that tells us what Patsy thought of Jonbenet. Jonbenet was Patsy's medical torture doll. WHO WOULD EVER DO TO THAT TO THEIR OWN CHILD?! A regular psychopath? No. An MSBP Mom? Yep. Read about the disorder...not the BS on the web that sugarcoats the motives of the MSBP Mom...extreme MSBP Moms are pure evil that they act out on their own kids. There is no other explanation for the 40 visits (and not taking her to a urologist)...nope bc she found a doctor that would go along with her and participate in the medical abuse of Jonbenet.

Anonymous said...

Where is it stated that 40 Dr visits were for only one problem? You think maybe medication was prescribed for each runny nose, cough, sore throat, fever, headache, cold, flu, anxiety, sleeplessness etc. So rehearsal & competition could continue?

Anonymous said...

Peter, or anyone else... Could someone please do SA on this? It showed up on my FB feed.

Rape. IT IS NOT OK!!! I am going to try to express in words how I feel about my experience at your Viva Fortuna Resort in the Bahamas. The love of my life and I eloped to this resort. We were married on the beach with a very simple ceremony where we recruited witnesses from the beach itself. We even streamed it live on Facebook so that all of our friends and family could be there with us for our special occasion. The very next day, while I was returning to our room with my new bride, I went to get us celebratory drinks from the bar. Little did I know that while I was away, a member of hotel security opened the door to our room and proceeded to allow in three other persons who all along with the security guard raped my newlywed wife. When I returned to my wife's screams I opened the door to see the perpetrators leaping over the deck rail running across the beach. To make matters worse, while I was pursuing them, the same security guard circled back around to the room while I was chasing the others to "respond" to the incident. He calmed the neighbors then proceeded to "examine" my wife. When police arrived. No one was arrested. They are doing a full investigation even though my wife specifically pointed out the perpetrators. Hotel security was polite enough to tell me "have I considered the fact that maybe she wanted it". This resort and its staff left a scar in what should have been a perfect memory. They have so far refused to refund my money for the trip saying that they cannot since it was prepaid. Of course I'm leaving the Bahamas in the middle of what was supposed to be my honeymoon. This is a total nightmare. Never ever stay here. It is not worth the risk. The doors do not even have internal latches. Please if you are looking for a nice place to stay with loved ones don't make the mistake I did. #NOTOK"

Here is the victim's FB page, where she gives several statements such as this one: https://www.facebook.com/childschloe?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

"I am so very thankful for all of the love and support. Please continue to share and reach out, trying to protect others from having this horrible experience happen to them as well. I do ask that as you do so, you act with grace, not anger. Please ignore those who are ugly or say harmful things. Acting out and feeding into that negativity will not do any good, but only encourage more to arrise. Please do not use bad language, or bring anything besides that RAPE is #NOTOK into it for my sake and the sake of the cause. I am trying not to feel anger. I ask that you try to do the same, as hard as that may be. Please use the #NotOK when sharing. If you would like to help more, please reach out to your local senators and Congressmen to make them aware."

I am not accusing them of lying, but I just feel like the victim would have more anger. Also, the spouse's story mostly gives a lot of details leading up to the event but then doesn't state a lot more about the story. Something feels off to me.





Anonymous said...

Also, looking further at her FB, she says it was 3 men and one woman, which later they changed the story to 3 women.

When the story starts changing, the hinky meter starts rising.

Anonymous said...

Heather McDonald missing in Carterville GA.

http://haveyouseenheather.com/


Her husband's Facebook post:

https://www.facebook.com/stefan.mcdonald.33?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

"I can't believe it's been two weeks since anyone has seen or heard from Heather. This kind of thing doesn't happen in real life and it doesn't happen to people I know and it doesn't happen to us. Our most recent conversation via text was so mundane. Not bad, not good, just a conversation. I'm glad we weren't fighting, but there was no I love you from either side and no real ending.

I don't believe Heather would or could leave the girls and I like this by choice, but a lot of people (mostly those that didn't know her) have said it is a possibility. This is one of the best case scenarios and I hope that it is true, however I feel like it is a very remote likelihood. If there is the slightest chance that you can read this Heather I want you to tell you a couple things:

I love you and miss you Heather. If you can read this please come home to your babies. They love you and miss you and need you. I'm sorry for anything I've done to hurt you and forgive you for anything you have done. I regret a lot of things that I both did and didn't do during our relationship and for that I am also sorry. I want to hug you so bad and tell you how much I love you.

I want to watch you get knocked over when these girls see you again and run into your arms. So many people care about you and have helped us in our efforts. If you left by choice and are not ready to come home please let us know you are ok. Please. I love you. The girls love you. We all need you."

He is victim blaming and there is possible leakage in "I want to watch you get knocked over".

Any thoughts on this?

Anonymous said...

@229,

That is well-known that Jonbenet was brought to the doctor 40 times for suspected UTI in 2 years. There are statements from the doctor online where he does not address the excessive doctor visits but simply praises Patsy 's motherhood.
40 doctor visits is very excessive for 2 years.

Patsy had MSBP and had a doctor who was probably a friggin pervert, otherwise why no referral to a urologist? Why just keep having Jonbenet keep on seeing him for "UTIs"? She should have been referred to a urologist gee I dont know how about after the first 5 visits? THAT IS A FACT THAT SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN REFERRED PROMPTLY TO A UROLOGIST EVEN FOR (ALLEGED) FREQUENT BEDWETTING....THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HER NOT BEING REFERRED PROMPTLY. NONE WHATSOEVER.

Patsy is a psycho who killed Jonbenet. Perhaps Jonbenet was struggling against Patsy trying to infect her, hence no longer serving her purpose for Patsy.

Another thing I thought of: Pineapple. Pineapple is very acidic and can be irritating to the bladder/urinary tract if someone has a sensitive bladder/urinary tract. Perhaps Patsy was trying to feed her a big bowl of pineaple right before bed hoping she would have an accident and she would be able to rush her to the doctor in the morning. It looks like Jonbenet did not eat hardly any of the pineapple from the crime scene pics...Perhaps Jonbenet just didnt feel like eating the pineapple and Patsy lashed out at her in rage.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ October 2, 2016 at 3:00 PM

follow the pronouns

Anonymous said...

PR is a psycho? Dr is a pervert? Its well known what the 40 visits were for. PR has MSBP? JBR killed by PR for not eating pineapples?

Anonymous said...

@5:05,

Yes.

Anonymous said...

If I was the doctor's supervisor and it came to me attention that a 5 year old girl had been brought in 40 times for suspected UTI and the doctor had not referred her to a urologist, he would be fired. First and foremost for being a HORRIBLE doctor.

Re: Pineapple. Google it. It is known to be a bladder irritant even causing incontinemce for some. Do you recall in Burke's childhood interview when asked what kind of snacks Patsy likes to give them, he says "pineapple". Really?! I think if someone is being fed that all the time, it could cause irritation. It is highly acidic.

Anonymous said...

Please provide proof the 40 visits were gor UTI.

Anonymous said...

Arent you assuming her Dr had a supervisor? Arent you assuming the children were fed pineapple all the time?

Anonymous said...

I didnt say the doctor had a supervisor. I was making a point about how idiotic it is he didnt refer Jonbenet to a urologist. Are you unable to comprehend meaning or just annoying as hell?

a.n.o.n. said...

wow, Anonymous!
You solved a 20-year old crime AND managed to diagnose almost the whole family!
but I call B.S. on Both scenarios...

Anonymous said...

I presented a valid well-formed theory regarding MSBP and you came at me ignoring the validity of what I was stating, cherry-picking random statements I had made that you then misconstrued like a sleazy defense attorney. Disgusting and transparent. Your tactics are repulsive and undignified. Troll.

Anonymous said...

Oh also, I can tell you fabricated the story that supposedly came through your facebook feed...thats why I didnt respond to it. Why dont you go back to talking to yourself on the Blackburn thread!

Anonymous said...

Also screw you for mocking me...yes Im an intelligent person so maybe I did solve the crime...Ive done extensive reading on MSBP, so yes I do know what Im talking about. You have a problem with that? I think youre a disgusting misogynist. Go to hell.

a.n.o.n. said...

hey, Anonymous - your "well-formed" (but Not well-informed) theory makes ALOT of assumptions, yet you present it as Fact. Plus, you are so very Angry!
MSBP should read MSBS (mostly standard bull scat)
...and I'm not even the poster you have been arguing with!

a.n.o.n. said...

me wonders why YOUR panties are all in a bunch.....?

Anonymous said...

who are you calling a misogynist?
Really, which one of us?
Are you a crap smudger personally?
Me? I just flick boogers now & then.

Anonymous said...

No, youre wrong... it was well-informed. All you did was cherry-pick statements I had made to misconstrue them and did not address the content. You disgust me.

Anonymous said...

You're sick and twisted...YOU probably do smear feces...I wouldnt be surprised.

Anonymous said...

What do you mean by MSBP should read MSBS? Yeah thats real nice...you mouthing off and denigrating the brutal reality that kids live with who have MSBP mothers! You dont know shit about MSBP. I do. I know a great deal, and youre insulting the victims of it you sadistic ignorant know-nothing!

Anonymous said...

Your "intellect" is a wasteland. I doubt you even the attention span to read a book nevermind give thoughtful consideration to anything. Youre a horrible empty human being.

trustmeigetit said...

One thing that dad said was "The real story here is not that a child was murdered, the real story here is what was done to us by an unjust system".

This was such a selfish comment to me and while I have never trusted him, only added to my issues with dad.


Burke avoiding the pineapple question was also a red flag. His excuse was it was so long ago. But being that it would have been the last time he saw his sister alive, you would remember. Or if not, you would remember not seeing her after the car.

Also him not getting out of bed. Now I get al kids are different, but most kids at that age would come out to see what's going on. To me, staying in his room means 1 of 2 things. Either he was used to tuning out abuse in the home. Or he did it.

I learn towards number 1.

Because if you have a missing child, any possible witness is critical.

Mom and dad never mention asking him if he saw or heard anything.

That's a huge red flag. To let him sleep when he could have information would not happen with an innocent family.

It reminds me of the Madeline McCann case where mom and dad let the other "unkidnpped" kids lay sleeping.

More spin this case since Burke was old enough to communicate if he had seen or heard anything. If you had a kidnapping, waking him and grilling him would be instinctive.

They did not...

They all knew...

Anonymous said...

Good points TMIGI.

Tiffany Gerik said...

I just wanted to throw it out there that JBR could have developed many UTIs from BUBBLE BATHS. I developed an awful one that way when I was around 14 years old. I'd been taken multiple bubble baths since then. It hurt so bad, I've never taken another bubble bath since. My (then) OBGYN explained that the chemicals in bubble bath can stir up UTIs and he told me to take them rarely or not at all.

I bring this up because JBR was a little girl and she was not showering. Little kids do not shower. But they do take baths. I'm not saying ALL of the UTIs came from that, but it certainly very well could explain some of them!

Anonymous said...

Good points Tiff. But....where is the statements of how many UTIs she had? Who said the 40 doctor appts were all for UTI?

Tiffany Gerik said...

I have no idea how many UTIs she had or how many doctor appointments were for supposed UTIs. I'm just stating that if she did go to the doctor for UTIs it could very well have a simple explanation: too many bubble baths. It irritates the vagina.

Anonymous said...

Tiffany,
So does having a brother who smears poop in your bed, and all over the bathroom.

Anonymous said...

Tiff.

Good point. Maybe JBR had numerous ailments is what I'm getting at. Only 6 yrs old and under unnecessary stress

LC said...

I just watched a 2 part program on HLN. John Ramsey clearly stated that there was 30 doctor visits in JBR's 6 years; she also had Asthma; and the doctor was 5 minutes away.
If I recall from much older reports, JBR only had 2 UTIs.

Matt Whan said...

The whole ransom note is suspicious and contains several popular movie references. One from the movie Speed with Keanu Reeves "Don't try to grow a brain, John" Speed: Don't even attempt to grow a brain"

AW said...

I'm less familiar with JBR's case than most of you, but some things about PR make me suspicious that she may have been a Malignant Narcissist. I actually share Peter's opinion/caution about the field of psychology, but growing up with a malignant narcissist parent and hearing from others with MN parents reveals a pretty consistant pattern of entitlement, distorted thinking, extremely controlling and abusive behavior.

The best, albeit general, description is that Malignant Narcissists think and act as if appearance is ALL that matters (not just physical appearance, but that it doesn't matter if one is actually good, honest, kind, successful, etc. in reality, as long as one can have the appearance of it). And they become enranged and retaliate (often very covertly) if anyone exposes the fraud, resists their manipulation and control, or threatens (even inadvertantly) to ruin 'the image.' Their kids are the number one target due to their presence, vulnerability, and 'reflection' on the MN, but spouses/significant others are another prime target.

I'm curious if anyone else would recognize red flags from PR that would fit with Malignant Narcissism (the best sources of info by people who have survived a MN mom are Lisette from House of Mirrors and Anna V. from Narcissists-suck). Another nearly universal characteristic of malignant narcicissists is that they usually assign one child to be the scapegoat, while other children can be either the 'golden child' or the lost child. Even though the golden child often becomes 'enmeshed' or taken over by the identity or role the MN gives them, they still tend to prefer the priviledges that come from their position (that is, not being the 'scapegoat'). They will often join in the abuse of the scapegoat to ensure that the twisted family system remains that way. (BTW Peter, here is another great scriptural analogy to the ultimate Scapegoat who bore on Himself the penalty of sin that was not His).

I've found a lot of the particularly distorted thinking of Malignant Narcissism is revealed by statement analysis. Many of the unsavory subjects analysed here fit the MN pattern to a T -- Mark Redwine, Billy Jean Dunn, and (of course) Davey Blackburn (cue the troll!) being quite extreme and a bit more obvious than many MNs are (unless one is unfortunate enough to be their target and the mask drops).

Oh, I don't know if it's come up in previous discussions on JBR, but did PR have her on a diet? It would explain the pineapple (used as a bribe/enticement?) as well as PR's rage at JBR getting out of bed if she was looking for food (actually, just defying the MN control freak is enough to trigger epic rage).

Just my thoughts,
-AW