Tuesday, March 7, 2017

Casey Anthony Statement 2017


Caylee would be 12 right now. And would be a total badass."

Note that she states this without qualification or explanation.  She believes this.  This is a recognition of her own parenting and her experiences under her parents.  Had the subject raised her child, this is the subject's expectation of delinquency.  One may consider the tone of the statement, as if she is complimenting herself in what Caylee would be.  Statement Analysis looks at the words chosen, without interpretation, in initial analysis. 

It is here that we may be given insight into the mind of a murderer. This may help readers understand Casey.  This was not an impulsive panic murder, or of a foolish and selfish young person.  Casey Anthony is revealing something very important here.  


In discussing Caylee’s last moments, the 30-year-old Anthony spoke in halting, sober tones: “I’m still not even certain as I stand here today about what happened,” she said.

This is a deceptive statement.  It begins with the rule of the negative:   she tells us what she does "not" have certainty over.  

Next, she qualifies certainty with "even";

Then she shows her own inner tension with this statement with the need to add in her body posture (standing)

The pronoun "I" and "what happened" are far apart. 

This indicates that she knows what happened but resists saying so. 

There could be an element of truth within "even certain" in that covering Caylee's mouth:  Casey may have walked away without complete certainty over death...or

Casey could be referring to what would happen to the body after she dumped it; particularly about who might find it, what wild life may do, and so on. 

There is often reliable information within deception.  


Based off what was in the media, I understand the reasons people feel about me. I understand why people have the opinions that they do.

Here she allows for her guilt via the "understanding"; this is something refused by the innocent. 

  She admitted lying to police and lying presupposes contempt.  Here she reveals it when talking about lying to police: 

“Even if I would’ve told them everything that I told to the psychologist, I hate to say this but I firmly believe I would have been in the same place. Because cops believe other cops. Cops tend to victimize the victims. I understand now … I see why I was treated the way I was even had I been completely truthful.”

She knows that if she told police the truth about not working in Universal or where she dumped Caylee, her actions would have ended in her being incarcerated anyway.  

She still, however, blames police.  This is the "us versus them" that her own mother, Cindy, used to justify deceit.  



Asked about the drowning defense, Casey hesitated: “Everyone has their theories, I don’t know. As I stand here today I can’t tell you one way or another. The last time I saw my daughter I believed she was alive and was going to be OK, and that’s what was told to me.

The passivity indicates that she does not speak from experiential memory with the child, but what another told her.  In context of the legal trial, this is likely a reliable repeating of what her attorneys told her. 


Anthony speaks defiantly of her pariah status.
“I don’t give a s— about what anyone thinks about me, I never will,” she said. “I’m OK with myself, I sleep pretty good at night.

The sociopathic callousness that took the child's life remains in tact.  

Analysis Conclusion: 

Casey Anthony lies about what happened to Caylee.
Casey Anthony shifts blame about what happened to Caylee. 
Casey Anthony recognizes the damage she would have inflicted upon Caylee had she not killed her.  This may be a form of justification:  "it all worked out for the best..." often in the language of murderers. 
Casey Anthony's contempt for police and society at large remains. 

400 comments:

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Hey Jude said...

I think Casey was responsible for Caylee's death, and that George believed the claim he made to his not-girlfriend, that it was 'an accident that snowballed out of control' - he could reasonably have believed that Casey did not intend for Caylee to die, because that is what he would have wanted to believe. I think he was too generous in that belief, as chloroforming and duct taping a toddler's mouth and nose, and putting her into the trunk of a car does not speak to concern on the mother's part that the child should live - Casey may have done that in expectation Caylee would die - it was a very high risk thing to put her in the trunk, let alone use chloroform and put duct-tape on her.

I find it difficult to believe Casey did not have murderous intentions which may have been festering for some time, given the internet searches for 'chloroform' and 'break + neck', plus putting Caylee in the trunk, then disposing of her in a bag, as though she were a bag of garbage. I am wondering if Caylee was the only person she had in mind, since learning she had told her friend she could soon move into George and Cindi's house with her. Is that a reasonable suspicion to be having? IDK.

I think George and Cindi grew tired of enabling Casey and had either withdrawn or reduced their support in order to make Casey find a job and take more responsibility, or otherwise, without gas for the car, to have to stay at home with Caylee, rather than leave her with the non-existent nanny.

I think by the time of the show-down over Casey breaking into George's shed, yet again, to steal gas, when he reported the incident to the police (yet did not mention that he was concerned about the whereabouts of Caylee), family relations had reached such a bad point, that Casey knew she was in a corner - she could no longer steal gas or money from them to run the car, which was vital to the fantasy job/nanny/ and to her social life. Also, around the same time, Cindi had or was intending to report Casey's use or misuse of Cindi's credit card; out of spite, unable to support herself and Caylee, determined her parents would not have Caylee (Cindi wanted Caylee), she killed her, and left the body in the trunk for long enough to also wreck the car, which though it was 'Casey's car', actually belonged to Cindi. When she has disposed of Caylee's body she abandoned the car - it was of no use to her once she was unable to buy gas. She must have known they would pick it up and would soon enough discover it had contained Caylee's body. I think it was more than a 'F*ck you' - in response to Cindi wanting Caylee, to them no longer enabling her, and to Caylee being inconvenient to her social life. I think increasing concern over the non-existent nanny, and Casey's lifestyle caused them to stop enabling her - they anticipated she would have no choice but to get her life together, and/or give Caylee up to them, but Casey had other ideas.

I think the row was more than about babysitting, probably there was an ultimatum, to which Casey responded by taking off with Caylee. I think tensions had come to a head, there was a confrontation about the non-existent job/s, babysitter, and Casey stealing from her grandmother, rather than about Cindi's unwillingness to babysit. Cindi loved Caylee - sensibly she would rather have babysat than not know who, if anyone, was taking care of Caylee. They must have been highly stressed - Cindi wanted to take care of Caylee, Casey was jealous, resentful, determined they would not have her. If George had abused Casey, and she knew that, it's understandable she would not want to give Caylee up to them.

Hey Jude said...


I wonder if Casey believed they would not report Caylee's disappearance to the police, for whatever reason the family had to keep indulging and covering for Casey. Perhaps she even expected no consequence would come of Caylee's death, and that rather than involve the police, they just would pretend to accept that she'd been taken to live with the nanny (didn't Casey claim the nanny had said she could look after Caylee better?), despite the car saying otherwise. They had lived all the other lies - graduation, jobs, even claimed Casey was not pregnant when it was obvious to others that she was quite far along. When Caylee was dead, Casey lived as if she had no concerns and no regret - she carried on as normal and even got her 'beautiful life' tattoo - she acted as though she were beyond the law, and somehow invincible, Maybe she is, in a way - well, it must have seemed that way to her when the jury returned their verdicts.

--
I still have not listened any more to George. I wonder if I might change my mind about anything for listening more and for understanding some more about SA now. Should start listening over from the beginning - there is so much of so many cases I want to listen to, though.

Anonymous said...

SA is important work. It's challenging not to get caught up with personal feelings. Atrocious acts have been committed against a child. Let's not forget why we are here: to find the truth and deliver justice to Caylee.

Anonymous said...

@12:11, I'm sick of the individual on here who always insults me...calls me immature, stupid and even mocks my education. This person is extremely disrespectful and until he apologizes (which I assure you he won't because he's not sorry), I'm done.
This is an interesting and in some ways perplexing case, and my efforts to examine George's language were trashed by KC and others regurgitating the case made by the state of Florida that did not result in a conviction. Nonetheless, my focus was on George's linguistics, curious if they offered insight into what had happened, when I was again attacked by an extremely disrespectful person on here who does not respect me and I am done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Jude said...

Anon,well, I am interested in why George removed Casey from the delivery room, too, if he did.

Would there maybe be a psychological reason why he did that?

Anonymous said...

Disrespectful people don't deserve your attention. Focus on the case and keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

What do you mean he removed Casey from the delivery room?

Anonymous said...

You are the disrespectful person anon at 1226!!! I resent you calling me names and disrespecting me and you under many names, spewing your condescension, although I do feel KC was a different person even more unlikable than you.

Hey Jude said...

Anon pointed out that George removed Casey linguistically from the delivery room. See the post at March 12, 2017 at 6:34 PM.

It is interesting he did that - was it consistent, every mention?

Hey Jude said...

Anon 12.02 - that is how you consider it, others are free to differ. A daughter might want her father present. He does not need to be at the delivery end of the table or to watch the baby come out - though he might. I don't think it has to be a big deal unless you make it one. Birth is a natural event, there is nothing creepy about witnessing the birth of a baby so long as the mother is happy for that.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Hey Jude, it was consistent. If you're interested, you can watch the video and see what you think. There is much about the pregnancy/delivery here from GEorge, a lot of evasiveness and like I pointed out, he does remove Casey linguistically from the delivery room, while also stating that he watched Cayley come out, making a hand gesture to indicate he watched her actually coming out of the birth canal. If nothing else, it's interesting to look at his language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SH6pJ4u_9o

Hey Jude said...

Thanks, Anon - I will watch it now.

Anonymous said...

You're welcome. You may want to note that George's answers to Baez' questions indicate that he (George) thought that he could have been the father to Casey's baby, and my guess is he watched the delivery thinking that he was the father. There is no other explanation why he would not even ask Casey who the father was.

Anonymous said...

I honestly think that people who believe the words of a child molester (George) are scum and very delusional. What one ends up believing about the case or about Casey's involvement should not come from George's mouth or from Cindy's mouth (oh yes she knew her ugly husband was molesting her daughter). I'd like to say there is something very disgusting about ANYONE who would believe the words of a child molester about the child they have been molesting. No integrity in that at all and if some have lived a life with a nice Mummy good for you, you don't know jack squat about how to look at cases like this, you don't, you couldn't, so go back to your delusional Disney world where people tell the truth and Mommy's and Daddy's don't do horrendous shit to their kids.

Anonymous said...

I'm friggin done here. I don't wish to solve cases with people who believe the words of child molesters, specifically "LC"...I really couldn't stomach your post "LC" where you imply Casey was not a victim of sexual abuse and where you sanctimoniously present yourself as judge, jury and hangman based on things like Casey being sexually active. Im sure you're pure as the driven snow. Good for you--you don't get to condemn other people based on your perceived superiority. That's why we have a justice system. It's obvious you've lived a sheltered prissy little life, and you like to call sexual abuse victims liars. Your post was disgusting.

Anonymous said...

And it really makes me sick that people are so intellectually or emotionally dishonest that they state that that is not deeply troubling that George watched his daughter (who he could have impregnated due to molesting her) deliver her baby. There could be no coercive factors involved in George making himself a voyeur to this act of giving birth. Nah, of course not. Idiots.

Anonymous said...

http://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/casey-anthony-an-american-murder-mystery/casey-anthony-an-american-murder-mystery-videos/extended-sneak-peek-at-casey-anthony-an-american-murder-mystery/?sf61475596=1

Extended Sneak Peak At Casey Anthony: An American Murder Mystery

Hey Jude said...

Anon - I am not saying Casey could not have been coerced into allowing George into the delivery room - I don't know if that was so. I am saying that fathers are sometimes present when their daughters give birth, and that while it is your opinion that it is creepy, others do not have to agree with you or find that to be the case.

Casey is a strong character who did pretty much as she pleased - I doubt George would have been present if she had not wanted him there. How difficult would it have been to ask the midwife to not let him in, or ask him to leave if he invited himself? I don't know about in the US, but in the U.K. expectant mothers are asked for a birth plan and who they would like present at the delivery - perhaps that did not happen with Casey as she was so late to pre-natal care, and maybe it doesn't work like that there.

George did not ask to meet or even to speak to the nanny - bearing that in mind, why would he ask who the father was? He maybe would anticipate a lie for an answer, or that Casey would not even know, or as you say, he may not have asked because he believed he was the father. I would not conclude from his failure to ask, that he must have believed he was the father. He may have dreaded hearing that Casey did not know, or he and Cindi may have decided they did not want the type of boyfriend Casey took up with to be in the baby's or family's life, so avoided the subject. They were a tight family who probably would not want to let in the type of boyfriend who had not even met them, and who would get their daughter pregnant out of wedlock. It is not difficult to imagine Cindi being overbearing and wanting to keep Casey home for the baby, and to not want the baby's father around.

It does not make sense that George went to live elsewhere due to financial difficulties, as paying rent would have increased their financial problems - if they could afford to rent a place for George, they could have afforded that place for Casey and the baby. Did they rent a place, or did he maybe stay with family or go into rehab for his gambling problem?

I think Cindi wanted the baby, would like to know why George moved out, and if that was because Casey did not want him round the baby because she knew and remembered he had abused her as a child, if it was because he was the baby's father, or if there was some other reason. It does not make sense he would live elsewhere, increasing their financial difficulties, or that if they could afford a second residence, George should live there rather than Casey and the baby. They knew she had no job and that they would be supporting Casey for the foreseeable future, they must have known it would be more enabling of her not taking responsibility for her to continue living at home.

Someone further up said tests had ruled out George and Lee as Cayley's father. Is that part of the trial testimony or evidence, or something Cindi said in an interview? It is interesting that the apparently potential fathers had died, but that does not mean the only alternative to be that George was the baby's father.

Hey Jude said...

Well, I listened to the video, and maybe a dozen which auto played on and I wondered at one - did George find Caylee's body concealed in the car, not in the trunk, where the tow-yard guy looked and found the garbage and maggots. He seemed traumatised at the memory of what he said he did not discover in the car. I think it could not have been the emotion of relief at not finding Casey or Caylee in there, as he was convinced it smelled of human decomposition, which would not bring great relief, even upon discovering they were not in the car. Did he find Caylee, did he dispose of her body and cover for Casey? He was very strong in realising his daughter 'was capable of murder' - I think he would not say that unless he was convinced Casey had killed Caylee. A parent would be in denial unless something convinced him or her otherwise.



Hey Jude said...

Also, George said, supposedly of the garbage bag, 'I didn't touch it'. I have noticed in other cases how people have said they 'didn't touch' what turned out to be a dead body. People tend to avoid touching dead bodies. That is another reason I wonder if George found Caylee, maybe on the floor in the back of the car rather than in the trunk where the tow guy also looked.

Anonymous said...

Is this a test to see if anyone will analyze the poster who goes ballistic against anyone who disagrees? This person keeps threatening to no longer participate on the blog, but continues to confront with rage.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I will read your posts this evening and respond.

Anon, dont bother with your "analysis". There are occassions where anger is appropriate and when I am asked to believe the words of a child molester (George) who in my opinion molested Casey all through her life (contrary to the opinions here, NO WOMAN wants her father watching her push a baby out) that combined with OBVIOUS indicators George gave on the stand that he did not ask Casey who the father was bc he knew he COULD be the father. If you qualify what I have written as "rage", oh well that's another attempt to be condescending to me by pathologizing a healthy reaction (anger) when asked to believe the words (which SA says are lies) of child abuser George. Im sorry if you're so delicate that that rocked your boat. Get over it.

miimaa said...

Whoever the "anonymous' is WHOA -- slow it down

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I will read and respond more later when I have time, but an important fact not being addressed is that George does not make a reliable denial when asked if he molested Casey. George did not ask who the father was. George watched the baby coming out of the birth canal, and no, they do not have birth plans in the US....in fact when I went into labor (early) I was with a female friend who took me to the hospital...it was an emergency situation, and they do not care who watches exams etc which is strange now that I think about--my friend was there and there was no privacy which didnt trouble me as she was a female and my friend and the emergency situation was more important but that is absolutely disgusting for a father of the mother to watch the birth unless he is merely standing by the mothers side...not watching the actual thing. George lies constantly including saying he lost tons of money to a Nigerian bank scam. George reveals how perverted he is when he talks about Casey gaining weight "from athletics" in her stomach, "hindsight" (I friggin hate people who can't use the English language--George was trying to sound all "cutesy" about staring at Casey's behind--then he clarifies he means Sge gained weight in her "butt" and shoulders. George remembers exactly what outfit Caykey was wearing. George is a child-molesting, lying, cheating sociopathic gambling addict dirtbag and he lies or is evasive about almost everything. So why does he do that if he has nothing to hide regarding Cayleys death? Also his fake suicide attempt speaks volumes.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Actually, Anonymous March 13, 2017 @ 3:22 PM, they do have Birth plans in the U.S. and have for at least 15-20 years. A woman may not only specify who is admitted to the Birthing Room, she can also deny entry to specific people to her hospital room for the duration of her stay, via the Nursing Staff. They've seen it all, from Domestic Abuse situations to mentally unstable family members/"friends" to "controlling/overbearing/"crazy" in-laws and relatives. With this in mind, OB's and OB-GYN's counsel their patients to complete Birthing Plans around 6-7 months, if not before, to be implemented in the event of premature labor or an emergency. In most Hospitals, the staff will honor and adhere as closely to the mother's Birthing Plan as possible. Most Nursing staff members are more than willing to go head to head to protect mothers from stress-provoking visitors. I have a number of friends and family members who are Nurses (several NICU and Maternity among them- they're fiercely protective of both mother and baby).

Anonymous said...

Good for you. Noone gave me a birthing plan but I guess you know it all. You're "knowing" nurses overrides my experience actually giving birth. Just like every other self-righteous nutcase on here, your opinion overrides reality, SA, the law and Truth itself.

I look at things through the lense of truth...not what makes me feel good, special or superior like LC. I use my intellifence. I do not allow a sociopathic child molesters like George Anthony to create any portion of the "narrative" for understanding or solving this case. If you have a problem with that, that is too damn bad. Here's a quarter--call someone who cares. Im Done here.

Anonymous said...

O.T. : Fake hate or real hero? Woman confronts teens abusing baby seal on beach and gets a bloodied nose.
http://www.boredpanda.com/woman-saves-teenager-tortured-baby-seal-gets-assaulted/

Amyl Nitrite said...

“Caylee would be 12 right now. And would be a total badass."

--Does the unnecessary "total" weaken the statement? Maybe she isn't so sure.
--What is the difference in statement analysis when the statement is:
"would be a total badass" as opposed to "would have been a total badass". Why doesn't she state "would have been", since Casey doesn't exist any more?

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, Interesting point about the sensitivity in George's language regarding finding the car. What I think is going on is that George expresses in the negative what he did NOT find in the car (Casey or Cayley), because A) He is trying to create blurriness as far as what he knew...he wants the jury to believe he had "no idea" what was going on and that in his mind, Casey or Cayley could be dead in the car and B) He was AWARE of whatever was in the car before he opened it THATS why he presents himself to jury like "duh I had thought it could be Casey or Cayley from the bad smell he smelled 3 feet away. From the linguistics I think George had put the pizza box in there...that's why he takes ownership of the smell saying that tow guy said to him after he opened trunk and saw pizza box "Theres your smell (George)."

Anonymous said...

George probably told Casey that dead squirrels crawled in her engine. That is something a guy would know about that small animals can crawl up in the engine and was Casey often looking in the engine of her car or is it more believable she had never even opened the hood of her (their) car BUT GEORGE HAD.

Other said...

pretty hard for Dead animals to Crawl anywhere...

Anonymous said...

Welcome back "other", I mean "LC"!!

Other said...

I think you have the wrong responder. There is more than one Anonymous on this board, I think, and it is getting confusing to follow.

Hey Jude said...

Anon - it is a mistake to discount everything George said as lies, regardless what you think of him.


Peter wrote recently: 'Even when lying, many statements contain up to 90% reliable content information about what happened.'

Also, though I can't find an example or exact quote now, he cautions at intervsls against dismissing everything which comes out of a person's mouth just because he/she is known to frequently lie.

----

Anon - when did George have opportunity to put the rotting pizza in the car? Unless he did go and get the letter the day it arrived, and then went on the sly to check out the car without collecting it. Someone would have noticed him and remembered. The tow yard was shut on the weekend. Even if he did have a maggot ridden box of pizza to hand, and put it in the car, it would not have created that much of a stink in so short a time - it would only have smelled of garbage rather than human decomposition. I think he more or less says that Caylee's body had been in the car, in the sun, for two weeks?



Reno911 said...

Other than me, I do not know thee
I cannot lie
I did chop down my father's cherry tree.

Weather Alert said...





****************Blizzard Warning**************************

Anonymous said...

I don't like George Anthony and I am sure he had ample opportunity to place the pizza box in the car. How do you know she ever even had the car?

Anonymous said...

I don't like George Anthony and I am sure he had ample opportunity to place the pizza box in the car. How do you know she ever even had the car?

Hey Jude said...

It's part of pre-natal care, Anon. Maybe it was not around when you had your baby/ies. I can't imagine Cindi not making sure Casey had a birth plan. Whatever, I don't think Casey would have had George there if she did not want him there - she could just have asked the midwife to make him leave. She wasn't shy about trying to get the prosecutor to shut up in describing Caylee's remains - 'Make him stop!' she commanded, like as though she was used to commanding her personal genie - which likely she had been, for most of her life..

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I don't know all the facts of the case, so I can't answer your pizza box question. I agree that not every word out of George's mouth is a lie, however, his narrative about Casey is bound to be full of holes.

I do believe that Casey, when she gave birth and after, thought that George could be the father as well as I believe George thought that he could be the father. Does George's narrative appear different against that backdrop?

I believe George is a child molester and if he molested CAsey, then I'm sure he also molested Cayley. George's testimony given under cross-examination by Baez is VERY incriminating towards himself!!!

Maybe George moved out of the home, not because he had fallen for a Nigerian scam but because Cayley was what seemed to be undeniable proof of his molesting of Casey. Do you think that could be an "uncomfortable" situation for all? Do you think George may have had motive to get rid of CAyley since she was the "proof", in his mind, that he had molested Casey? Do you think Cindy may have felt uncomfortable with the (possible) baby of her husband and daughter living under the same roof? No chance at all that Cindy was anything but loving towards Cayley?
I look at linguistics. That's all I do here. That, and I use common sense.

Hey Jude said...

Because she used ithe car to ferry her friends around and to collect them from the airport during the time she was staying with them, (planning to move into Cindi and George's house) when Caylee was missing, Anon - it's in the friends' testimonies.

Hey Jude said...

Peesonal feelings on George, Cindi, and Casey are irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I disagree that Cayley wanted him there. It's called Stockholm Syndrome. That combined with the fact I DO believe that both Casey and George felt the baby could be his. HOw can you say she even had the "freedom" to choose whether or not she wanted him there? It's not like it is some distant cousin...this is her father who also could have been the father of her baby. If he had been molesting her most of her life, do you think that the dynamics were fair and equal and that there wasn't severe coercion on George's part woven into the fabric of their relationship. This is not some black and white thing where it is a healthy father-daughter relationship and CAsey is asked "Do you want your Dad there or not? Yes or no?" This should not be incredibly difficult to grasp.

Anonymous said...

That proves nothing regarding the car. He could have put the pizza box in there at any time!!! Maybe he put it there with the premeditated plan to create a bad smell and say it was from a dead body.

Anonymous said...

Regarding George smelling human decomp in the car

Baez asks him about it:

At around 1:15: Note that George remembers "talking about it" (discovering the smell of human decomp)...his memory is of "talking about it", his memory is not of the experience itself. This is not coming from experiential memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIMyooj4GTE

1) States what he did NOT find
2) smelled bad odor from three feet away
3) does not express a direct memory but rather a memory of talking about it
3) when challenged by Baez regrarding whether he is telling the truth about the human decomp smell George creates a distraction and tries to make himself a "victim" of Baez by saying Baez is trying to "take his joy of life" from him

He is deceptive about smelling human decomp in the car.

Hey Jude said...

Anon at 9.04 - I don't know. I do know I was heavily influenced by the media against Casey before, during, and after the trial. I think the circumstantial evidence points to Casey, and while they were a dysfunctional family, the parents loved Casey and her daughter. I am having difficulty with the possibility George molested Casey - at the same time, I have to acknowledge his unreliable denial. (I want to be one of those people who say, 'Yes, but...' ), also, there's the fact that Casey made the allegation, but that could have just been a low tactic by the defence and Casey encouraged to make the allegation.

It's difficult not to let emotion into it - along with what I would prefer to believe of the family. I want to believe George did not abuse Casey, that he was hen pecked by Cindi and Casey, that Casey's issues were mainly with Cindi, George is overly-dependent on Cindi and unusually emotional for a man of his generation (he often speaks of his feelings and emotions), Caylee made him very happy at a time when he was very unhappy, he was devastated to have lost his grand-daughter, added to which, he had the misery of being falsely accused of molesting Casey, whose resentment and spite towards her parents, both for and enabling and thereby disabling her (I think it amounted to the same thing), which ultimately thwarted her freedom knew no bounds. They enabled her to the extent that she was dependent upon friends in the weeks Caylee was missing - she was basically desititute, without any means, without her parents' support. Casey was utterly messed up, disturbed, and out of control due to her parents' over indulgence - she was not capable of taking responsibility for herself and Caylee, II think she has a personality disorder, which may or may not be due to her upbringing.

Well, that's what I would prefer to believe, but it may not all be working out like that in the light of SA. I'm going to search here for older articles/analysis on Casey, and hopefully read them all this time. It's so difficult to retain information, to not to get distracted by other cases, or by Davey's latest antics.

Am I spelling Cindi wrong? will check, should have.


Hey Jude said...

I thought it was proved Hayley was in the car dead - wasn't a death banded hair found in the car?

Hey Jude said...

^Caylee.^

--

So, what is the argument - George and Cindi/Cindy framed Casey for the murder of their grand-daughter?



Anonymous said...

Hey Jude,

George shows all kinds of indicators of being sexually abusive: commenting on his daughter's weight gain in her butt, watching a baby come our of his daughter (if that ever was done to me, I'd be in a straight jacket--that is so unbelievably violating...what man, even if his daughter asked him to (which I assure you none would), would agree to actually watch the baby coming out?) He stared at his daughter's private area while she was in great pain delivering a baby. He's a perverted monster. He reminds me of Fritzel, that pervert who locked up his daughter in GErmany and had 5 incest babies with her. SA shows he does not give a reliable denial when asked if he molested CAsey at his daughter death penalty trial!!! Wouldn't you think, if he was going to give one, then would be the time?!?!


George's focus on his emotions is typical of male manipulators.

George gives linguistic indicators that he planted the pizza box in the car. He probably pulled a hair out of Cayley's head after she was dead and planted that in the car.

I can't even believe the people on here cant see what a liar he is!!!

Also as far as the google searches of "fool-proof suffocation": Isn't it more likely that a cop would put in the term "fool-proof" because he probably had gone to calls at houses where someone tried to strangle another person and it didn't work. How about someone who had done a suicide attempt that didn't work...wouldn't they be more likely to enter the words "fool-proof"???

Hey Jude said...

Why did she use/need chloroform to sedate a toddler? Was she giving Xanax to the baby or not? That would have done it, surely? Is there any basis in fact that she was sedating Caylee, or is it a myth?

A tiny amount of chloroform can kill a baby. The more I think about it the more I wonder if the chloroform wasn't intended for knocking George and Cindi/Cindy out in order to quietly dispatch them. She knew her parents weren't going anywhere, yet to,s her friend they could go and live in her parents' house. Casey did return to the house at least once while Caylee was missing, to steal gas - she took her boyfriend. Maybe she was thinking to lay in wait for them, with chloroform...or maybe I have too much imagination. Really, though, chloroform - to sedate a baby? It has to be reasonable to think she intended more, or other, than that. It's a chilling thought, that she would want to be in possession of chloroform. Was she, though - was that established, or only assumed? Either way, the internet searches surely showed an intention to obtain chloroform, which would have to be overkill, used on a toddler - at least if the idea was only to make her sleep for a long time so that she could party.

Hey Jude said...

Anon - what possible motive would George have for killing Caylee? I don't get it.


Hey Jude said...

Yes, he maybe planted the pizza box to account for the smell of decomposition, to cover for Casey, after either discovering Caylee's body in the car, or knowing it must have been in there.

How do we know, as Casey left the home with Caylee after the row, she did not say something like, 'Take a good look at your grand-daughter, because it's the last time you're going to see her.' - which is why he remembered what she was wearing.

Or if actually, that was what she was wearing when George discovered her body in the car, and if that, really, was the last time he saw her.

Anonymous said...

All 3 Cindy Anthony 911 Calls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1p8Ec7_55s

1st Call: First calls to report car stolen but she has it back. No mention of missing Cayley.

2nd Call: Fake. Fake. Fake. Suddenly wailing uncontrollably..."My daughter finally admitted the nanny took her! Zanny the Nanny took her!!!" Fake histrionics.

(Even the 911 operator can tell it's not genuine. I don't believe anyone in the family. It's like Cindy called in the car thing, then while waiting around for the sheriff's deputy they all talked and decided "time to tell them the Zanny the Nanny story") I can tell Cindy in fake. Her freak-out is fake. Her belief in Zanny the Nanny is fake.

Anonymous said...

Doesnt make any sense. Abby and Libby take photo of killer and record his voice, but he/she doesnt take the phone? Sheriff reported as saying the community isnt in danger but to be vigilant. Not in danger? Really? A parent/grandparent states he wants the killer to be a christian man and turn himself in to police. A murderer is a christian? Theres been no info released how they were killed. All seems very strange.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I don't get the chloroform thing either...I don't know anything about chloroform but yes surely it would not be used as a sedative so that makes no sense.

George has motive to kill Cayley if he was molesting her. Also he has motive if someone threatened to have him do a paternity test to see if he was indeed Cayley's father. Maybe if Cindy said she was throwing Casey and Cayley out, Casey screamed back that she would have her father pay child support for Cayley since she thought he was the father. (I absolutely believe he was molesting Casey). Also, do you realize the last day George (allegedly) saw Cayley was the day after Father's Day? Is it possible that Father's Day brought out some very uncomfortable tension between Cindy, George, and Casey since Casey believed George to be the father?

I think the whole family was so dysfunctional and I think the lies were somehow necessary to maintain the very demented family structure. I don't believe for a second that Cindy and George believed in Zanny the Nanny. Who knows? Casey may have been dropping Cayley off at friends or whatever to keep her away from molester George and saying she was with Zanny the Nanny and noone actually believed in zannny the nanny.

jmo

Good luck with the case. i should go rest, haven't been sleeping well since the time change. Good luck with the blizzard everyone!

Hey Jude said...


I should have said 'if and when George discovered her body'.

Commenting on weight gain would be emotionally abusive rather than sexually abusive -it might cross over?

I continue to believe George would not have been in the delivery room if Casey did not want him there. Cindy would not have allowed him if Casey did not want him there. Projecting disgust does not make a father being present when his daughter gives birth disgusting and perverse, though if he had molested Casey and were the father of the baby, then obviously it would.

They were a tight family, the baby's father (assuming for the moment it was not George) was not in the picture, in which case Casey most likely wanted her own father there. The midwife would not have allowed George to watch the birth if Casey had not indicated she was happy with that. I agree, watching the baby come out is more unusual, but it also seems you are letting your personal feelings run riot - I understand though, as you are convinced George molested Casey, why you find his being there, and watching, disgusting,

Some mothers make the birth a family event, even allowing other children to be present and to watch. For the Anthonys, the baby was all theirs - 'we had Caylee' - 'our baby' - parent and grandparents, Caylee was 'their' baby - whether George fathered Caylee or not, that was their reality, of which Casey must have been accepting, happily or otherwise.

I don't dispute there could have been manipulation, and that both grandparents may have been overly possessive in regard to the baby, yet the reality is that she spent much time away from them with a non-existent nanny, which speaks more to negligence and helplessness, and to not being in much control of Casey.

George also spoke often of Caylee as Casey's daughter, and as his grand-daughter. They had the view both of Caylee as being 'their baby', all of theirs as family, but also of Caylee distinctly belonging to Casey.




Anonymous said...

@11:40, I take melatonin...it doesn't do anything...I don't get that relaxed "time to sleep" feeling that I used to get at a certain time or at any time. It's like my brain is always trying to figure something out and I can't figure out what it is so I just try to figure anything out. It sucks but it has been going on for 2 years and it is just the way it is, I thought I would go back to normal but it never happened. I am always alert. I've gotten used to it.

Anonymous said...

It's kinda like a combo of anxiety and confusion...constantly feeling confused...really weird...it's not a mental problem.

Anonymous said...

Kinda like generalized confusion...not about any one thing...like many things or everyting...I don't even know can't describe...it doesn't fall under any mental problem criteria.

Hey Jude said...

Yes, I know they didn't believe in the nanny, and just went along with it. I didn't know it was Father's Day, no - interesting. That would make me even more sympathetic to George, if I didn't have to stop that now, and take more into account the unpalatable fact that he might have molested Casey all through her life and also fathered Caylee. A lot of what I think is wrong if he did molest her and father Caylee. Even if I get to thinking that, it would be unlikely I'd consider George murdered Caylee.

I'm not convinced it was a genuine suicide attempt.

When I learn how to do SA, rather than dabble, I will know lots of things I don't know now. :)

---

Well, sweet dreams, if you can sleep.



Hey Jude said...

Anon - Go steady on the melatonin:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/301125-melatonin-risks-side-effects/

elf said...

Um. You make your own birthing plan in the United States. I've seen videos of births that involved the entire family, kids and elders included. Hospitals usually only have room for 2 in delivery or one for a c section, but for a long time a hospital hasn't been the only option for pregnant mothers.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Hey Jude for the link! Wow, I didn't realize there were all those risks--only thing I knew is that the first and second night you take it when you first start taking it it does give you freaky bad nightmares! But I was told to take it years ago for a medical problems, however I've stayed on it at all times (every night) and something is definitely messing up my sleep (but it wasn't always that way on melatonin) and even my dreams are weird like I'm always lost somewhere like in some building or rooms with people I don't know that well and not sure how I got there or exactly where I am or how I will get back home (but not to my house where I live now but like in a different time period of my life!)every night!...sucks so bad!!!!! Like a very unsettled feeling in my dreams...crazy been going on for like 2 yrs. Yeah maybe I should cut down on the melatonin, it couldn't hurt I'll tell you that! Thank you for your concern. I am so tired gonna try to lay down but I will comment more on your comments about the Casey case tomorrow...so tire dI can't see straight right now. Please stay warm and safe if you are in the path of the blizzard!!! Good night!

Anonymous said...

Amyl Nitrite said...

“Caylee would be 12 right now. And would be a total badass."

--Does the unnecessary "total" weaken the statement? Maybe she isn't so sure.
--What is the difference in statement analysis when the statement is:
"would be a total badass" as opposed to "would have been a total badass". Why doesn't she state "would have been", since Casey doesn't exist any more?


Good points, Amyl.

Could Casey's 'total' mean Caylee would've been expected to be completely submissive? Expected to be a carbon copy of herself and her lifestyle?

In this case, I think the difference between 'would be' and 'would have been' is that Casey was the one who killed Caylee. She gave her life and she took it away. In her mind she can bring Caylee back to life. --This is quite a stretch-- a warm-up of sorts.

&

Anonymous said...

I tire of talking to you and won't be coming back here. I try to be nice to you and you return my kindness with insults. You are invested in criticizing me...I wonder why. I was never anything but kind to you. If anyone owes me giant apology upon apology it would be you. But instead, you insult me and pick me apart. Good riddance.

Anonymous said...

Did the test show you have aspergers or personality disorders? Just curious.

Anonymous said...

A chracteristic of narcissism.

Anonymous said...

I don't think you have aspergers. Did the test say you did?

Anonymous said...

You are the one that said you took a test, so I was just asking. I don't think you have aspergers, you are just intelligent. I know people who have aspergers and you don't act like them. ARe you saying you have narcissism when you said "a characteristic of narcissism"? Forget it. None of my business.

Anonymous said...

You're too sensitive of a person to have aspergers, you're a deeply sensitive person. I've never met you, but I bet you have no problems with eye contact. You might just have very high intelligence. If you google that it might help explain whatever difficulties or concerns you were having that led you to be tested.

Anonymous said...

I didn't mean to pry. Sorry. Gotta go sleep now. Stay safe in blizzard! Baton down the hatches!!

Anonymous said...

Weather AlertMarch 13, 2017 at 8:50 PM




****************Blizzard Warning**************************








Depends on your location.

Sunny and 72 degrees here.

Anonymous said...


AnonymousMarch 14, 2017 at 9:10 AM
To the anonymous who can't sleep and always threatens to quit posting here -
Go back and read your angry comments to see if you have been Nice and Kind to others.
You have called people Stupid and Idiots to the point that there are few who will even respond to you. You have no respect for differences of opinion. Research what SA has to say about those who hold others in Contempt. Your outbursts have been convincing, but not in a positive way.


************************









Since, according to some of you SA "geniuses", nearly all anon and hateful remarks are attributed to "Me2l", let's set the record straight.

To begin, if your SA abilities were up to snuff, you would be able to differentiate. That's a fairly basic and simple task when compared to the murder cases you attempt to take on and solve. It does nothing to inspire confidence in or take seriously any discussion by any of you who err in this manner.

Next, I'm not the name-calling anon who threatens to leave. I'm pretty sure that would be the poster who is also known as HISG, among other monikers. She has a specific style of writing, and isn't that similar to what SA is all about? Surely, you analysts worth your salt can see the similarities in all her posts and compare those to my posts for a clear example of different styles.

In general, I have always pointed out (often sarcastically) the holes in your methods. For this, I am the person who is insulted and called names, even along with attempted doxxing. (Hilarious, BTW, and I'm still unsure of the purpose, since ..... Uh ..... so what? I am who I am. It's odd that bobcat would think she must use her ultimate weapon to silence me. Chuckle. LOL. Very childish, but I suppose it's something bobcat would not want for herself, so maybe that would be a project for me. It should be fairly simple.)




Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Why don't you look at the full interview where she explains what she means by badass. She says Caylee would listen to classic rock and wouldn't take any crap from anyone. If I had a daughter I wouldn't want her to take crap from anyone! In fact, I am glad I don't have a daughter because of the horrible men roaming this earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I had a daughter and some guy ever hurt her, I would go PSYCHOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I know they would hurt her, because men are SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Done with you amateurs.




I am glad you don't have a daughter.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Blog administrator.

Anonymous said...

You are the one who has contempt for others opinion. I am allowed to state the truth. Would I want to have a daughter? No. Why? Because I would not want her going through 1/1000 of what I have gone through with men, or, quite frankly, being viewed as a "sex object" by society once she grew up. Thank God at least my own father would have thrown someone threw a window if anyone had ever painted my nails and dressed me in a mini skirt when I was 4 years old like a lot of parents do now a days. And no that is not an exaggeration--someone would have been thrown out a window. But once I was a teenager/adult you are a 2nd class citizen as a woman--if attractive you will be harmed by predators, you will be trodden upon by absolute morons, you will have the very spirit drained from you and still be expected to look pretty and smile! Gotta look pretty to attract another f&ckin dirtbag. You're damn right Im glad I dont have a daughter. Im not cut out for it, I would worry TOO MUCH.

Hey Jude said...

Well, listening to more - I thought to find him in chronological order from the beginning. Here is a reliable denial which preceded the later denial. That is reliable? 'Sir' does not make it less reliable? So, I would say George initially made a reliable denial, and in the later questioning, he was expanding on the first denial, trying to reinforce it with the extra words, out of indignation? I think I maybe heard this part of his testimony during the trial to have believed he did not sexually abuse Casey.

-----


Q: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter, Casey Anthony?
GA: No, sir.
Q: Have you ever committed any sexually inappropriate act with or in the presence of your daughter, Casey Anthony?
GA: No, sir.
Q: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?
GA: No, and when I heard that today it hurt really bad, because if I would have known something would have to happened to Caylee we wouldn't be here today

---

Q: Did you dispose of the body of your granddaughter?
GA: No, I did not
Q: Did you obtain duct-tape from your shed or garage and place it over the nose and mouth of Caylee Anthony?
GA: No, I did not.
Q: did you have any role, or any knowledge, that Caylee Marie Anthony died on June 16th, 2008, prior to recent revelations?
GA: No sir, I never had any duct tape, I never knew of anything that happened to Caylee until - until our lives started to unfold on July 15th 2008 and when Caylee was found on December 11th.

---

https://youtu.be/4ZQQofkz9eE


I know George lies - he lies a lot - I think, in this video, he lied about that morning. Even so, in view of this first denial, I do doubt that he sexually abused Casey. I will continue listening to see if I can pick up why some believe he did.

Anonymous said...

Granted self-esteem can go a long way towards preventing SOME of these problems. But I would worry A LOT. Way too many men do not respect women. It is a crying shame these unworthy slime buckets weasel their way into women's lives harming them. Whatever. You live and learn. Sometimes learning takes a LONG time though. But I apologize for nothing. And I also don't apologize for detecting George Anthony's lies. My point was he is hiding something. And no I dont believe anyone in the family believed the Zanny the Nanny story and wpuldnt you think after Cindy hadnt seen Caykey in 31days, and Casey says Zanny took Cayley that Cindy at that point would have asked "Casey is there even a Zanny the Nanny?" But she didnt. Something is VERY strange about that. Just hopelessly deceived by Casey? Just gobbling up a lie that noone else would believe? It raises skepticism.

Anonymous said...

Just seeing your post Hey Jude and I will watch the link after I shovel snow.

However, there were no reliable denials in what you transcribed and this (below) from George is also unreliable as well as sensitive as well as manipulative where he again shifts the focus onto his emotions (playing victim).

Q: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?
GA: No, and when I heard that today it hurt really bad, because if I would have known something would have to happened to Caylee we wouldn't be here today

How can you think that is a reliable denial?!!

Esme Phe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

"No, sir" is not a reliable denial!

Esme Phe said...

“I don’t give a s— about what anyone thinks about me, I never will,” she said. “I’m OK with myself, I sleep pretty good at night.”

What a despicable human being.

'I don't give a s#it..." Could this be a true statement? She doesn't give a s--. She gives a lot of s--ts. She wants to protect her badass.

"...About what anyone thinks about me..."
Could this also be true? She cares what everyone thinks.

"...I never will." Added to convince? Stated in the negative means she always will? Should we remove the the never?

"I'm OK with myself" This is true. She's only OK with herself.

"I sleep pretty good at night." Why did she need to tell us about her sleeping habits? Killers says things like this in movies if I recall.

Chris said...

Hey Jude, Is George addressing the District Attorney as "Sir"? He does answer each question consistently as such. He uses it as a Title, not as 'no, siree, Bob'. I can't remember if he was questioned by the Defense attorney in the same fashion.
But when he elaborates the answer with a qualifier, it was due to hearing previous shocking accusations made by the defense that he didn't know were coming.
Remember, the Judge allowed the Anthonys to remain in the courtroom to hear statements and testimony - Even though they were to testify also. You might want to listen to the entire court proceedings of that day. George was caught off guard, and wanted to expand his answers to include his surprise for the court record.
It might also be helpful to listen to some of his remarks to the media and how he responds to those questions - without the restraint of sworn testimony.
I am also not convinced about the molestation, mostly because I don't trust that Casey didn't bring it up as a Strategy for her defense after hearing ideas from her cellmates while awaiting trial.

Psych101 said...

I still need to watch George's full testimony. But I wanted to say to the individual on here concerned that they may have aspergers or if that was suggested to them by someone that they may have aspergers: Without having met you, or done a full interview with you, I would say off the top of my head you actually are more likely to have borderline personality disorder complicated by (possible, not yet determined) high intelligence. You can help treat this by reading books that will help you deal with your black and white thinking and other troublesome aspects of your disorder. Good luck!

HISG said...

To whomever insulted HISG in this thread: Yes, I am nice and kind, I have shown more kindness than any other poster here. Especially Me2l, a deeply troubled soul.

Anonymous said...

It is probably Me2l himself projecting his own cruelty onto me. What a deeply conflicted and troubled soul :/ Maybe he needs to spring for a book on treating borderline personality disorder.

a.n.o.n. said...

To avoid further confusion, Anonymous, why don't you just choose a name?

Hey Jude said...

Oh, I jgot over-excited by his 'No' - that's not enough to be a reliable denial, is it? He would have had to have said, 'No, I did not molest my daughter'

Hmm. I didn't think the long reply with the qualifier was a reliable denial, just the first two responses, but they are not - he didn' say he didn't do it. Though 'no' is like saying he didn'do it...oh, well.

I am listening to the opening remarks - gone right back to the beginning. I should have done that before making any comments - there's a lot I didn't know, like Casey borrowing the shovel, and the cadaver scent by the playhouse. And that Casey kept going back to the house during the time Caylee was missing - I had thought it was just the time she went back to steal the gas. Also not now sure it was her car, or her boyfriend's car she used to drive to the airport. There is so much to try to remember.

Chris said...

Hey Jude, I also consider his first 2 denials as reliable, and also understand his reasons for elaborating his responses (which put the denials in question). One thing to remember is that an abuser (IF he was) does not consider his actions as 'molestation' - so directly stating "No, I did not molest my daughter" may be considered a truthful statement by him.

Anonymous said...

Hey Chris buddy, George's denials are NOT reliable. Where's the reliable denial????

a.n.o.n., I would choose a name but I feel like doing so would make me more identifiable to Me2l and his verbal aggression and blame-shifting and shaming towards me. I only feel comfortable talking to Hey Jude right now. I like Hey Jude, as I feel confident that she is NOT Me2l (way too kind and caring and thoughtful) but the others may be Me2l in disguise.

Chris said...

Jude, as you are watching the court proceedings, remember that Opening Statements are Not to be considered as Evidence - - for Either Side. I think the jury overlooked that and held the prosecution More accountable, even though the burden of proof was upon them. I also feel Judge Belvin Perry fell short in his instructions to the jury.

Anonymous said...

I Started watching the George video linked by Hey Jude. Wow, right away when that dopey lawyer is questioning him about where he met Cindy, George says (as an adult in his 20s or 30s) he met Cindy in a hospital while his sister was being "attended to". When asked, he says that Cindy was working as a "pediatric nurse". OK then how did George meet her unless he was on the pediatric wing of the hospital? Pediatric patients are on a separate wing of the hospital, as well as in emergency rooms, pediatric patients go to a different, totally separate section of the emergency room. Why was pedo George in the pediatric wing of the hospital??

tania cadogan said...

If someone bothers or annoys you, ignore their comments and do not react or respond.
It is no fun attention seeking when no one reacts or responds, they end up talking to themselves and then get blocked.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Tania, I will just ignore the offending posts. It seems the individual is both intelligent and diabolical, and loves to hate and pathologize me, although I've done nothing to him. EVER. Even when I offer him kindness, he cannot help but resort to insults. Apparently this must fill some perverse psychological "need" he has, but I tire of it.

Anonymous said...

That is the exact plan already in action, Hobs.
Been here long enough to know that it eventually works.
(posting as anon for this reply)

Anonymous said...

Wow. I was even going to wish you a Happy First-day-you-were-born-onto-this-planet-to-torment-people, but I can see now that would have been FAR too generous of a gesture.

Anonymous said...

happy birthday

Hey Jude said...

Thanks, Chris - I will keep that in mind.

I am listening to George again now - not sure I am going to be able to listen chronologically - I want now to hear what Cindy says. Maybe will do that then go back to where I am now.

----

Just discovered my dog chasing an enormous rat. It is hiding behind the recycling station about six feet away from me, and the dog is going beserk. Perhaps it seems so enormous because the dog is little. I might have to go inside and do some housework. :-/

Chris said...

Jude, it has always concerned me how Rare it is that witnesses who will testify in a court case are allowed to be in the courtroom to hear testimony by Others. George and Cindy had the advantage to adjust their answers to apply to previous testimony as the case was presented.
Normally, if one is on a witness list to testify under oath, they are excluded from hearing the other testimony, and enter & exit the courtroom for their own time on the witness stand only. In this case, the advantage goes to the Defense. (I think that is the reason for George's extended remarks on his molestation denial.....which presented as unreliable)
...just food for thought
Good Luck with the Dirty Rat!

Hey Jude said...

Yes, that is concerning, particularly in view of the Anthonys' willingness to lie. Lstening to Cindy, I'm astonished at how she goes on as if she believed in the fantasy nanny during the whole time Caylee was missing, and kept making excuses for Casey even though she must have been worried sick because she knew it was all lies and she had not spoken to Caylee - she even set up a 'My grand-daughter is missing' MySpace, yet held out on calling the police. That's as far as I've listened.

---

That rat was probably dying and scatty from poison to be running about in the day - it's the first time I have seen one here, so I am feeling all unsettled now in case the rest of his family is nearby. Urgh. I went inside and did some housework; when I came out there was a dead robin redbreast near the back door. At least there is no sign of the rat and the dog has settled down. Useless cats, to kill a sweet robin while there was a rat a few feet away - maybe it would have scared them or fought with them, it was so big. Will have to keep an eye in case he is not alone. I caught one in a humane trap, once, and let it go miles away, by a river. I still don't know what was humane about that, not really, it might have had babies at home for all I knew. I don't care now, I just will get the ratman out if I see any more.

Alexandra said...

Hey Jude,

I will listen to Cindy later also.
I do not believe that George or Cindy believed in "the nanny".
I did not know Cindy had set up a MySpace Cayley is Missing page before calling police: doesnt that suggest alibi building for her and George? (I do believe Casey had involvement but I feel she or George were involved also).

Is this not an embedded admission of involvement from George?

Q: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?
GA: No, and when I heard that today it hurt really bad, because if I would have known something would have tohappened to Caylee we wouldn't be here today"

George is telling us that something "would have to happen" to Caylee. What "happened" was she was killed". George is telling us there was, in his sick mind, a reason she would have to be killed. Possibly the fact that he had been molesting her and she was now old enough to tell. Possibly he feared he was the father, and, on that Father's Day, someone (probably Cindy) threatened to have him take a paternity test to see if he was the father.

Chris said...

Jude, I think Cindy WANTED to believe there was a nanny. Casey set her up with a couple tidbits of information hoping it would placate her into believing the nanny existed. (Casey claimed she was co-worker Jeff's nanny; Zanaida had a small dog whom Caylee loved to play with. etc.)
Cindy had her doubts for sure, but Casey's lies were working in the meantime. The few times Cindy spoke with Casey during the 31 days, the excuse that Caylee couldn't speak with Grandma was that she was busy at the park, etc. with Zanny. Casey's few friends also were given the nanny story (along with hearing that Cindy had been also watching her at times during that month) and only became suspicious when Cindy came looking for them in person. That is when Cindy's doubts rose to cause her to attempt to turn Casey in for stealing the car. Casey finally broke down and admitted that Caylee was missing as they sat in front of the police station - in itself another (plausible to Cindy?) Lie.

Hey Jude said...

Alexandra - Sorry, I listened again and found I made a mistake which alters the sense of what George said - that 'would have to happened' should not be there, it is: 'would have happened'.
The Q & A should read:

Q: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?
GA: No, and when I heard that today it hurt really bad, because if I would have known something would have happened to Caylee we wouldn't be here today

---

Apologies, as that was quite misleading.

---

Hey Jude said...

On that same question -

I thought it was strange how George chose not to say there that he was hurt by the knowledge that the defence's case was going to include that he had sexually abused Casey - rather, he says he is hurt by the suggestion that Caylee died in the home and that he was present - because if he'd known something was going to happen to Caylee they would not be there today. (He doesn't say that to his knowledge, Caylee didn't die in his home. Why did he not respond, 'Caylee did not die in my home.' ?)

I wondered if not saying he was hurt by the abuse allegations was his way of indicating to Casey, and possibly to others, that he was being stoic rather than hurt by the sexual abuse allegations because he knew that winning the jury's sympathy might be the difference between Casey receiving the death penalty or not. It is strange he did not say that hurt him, whether he abused Casey or not. If he did abuse her, is it not likely that at that point in the questioning he would have claimed he was hurt and devastated, and tried to win sympathy for himself? - yet he doesn't. I find it interesting that he saves the 'hurt' comment for the next question, as he must have given some advance consideration to how he was going to respond to the various claims made by the defence. I do wonder if he placed the hurt there, after the abuse questions, as a highlight or contrast against what did not, despite that it must have hurt to be accused if he did not abuse her. Like acknowledging he knew it was something necessary to trying saving Casey from the death penalty.

---
Alexandra - Cindy made out she did not realise MySpace was public, and that she made the page only for Casey's eyes, to let her know how she was feeling. She must have been feeling sick with worry and upset and disappointment - no Caylee during the week she had taken off from work as holiday, or over 4th July, or on the day she thought she would find her at Universal Studios. It doesn't sound as if Father's Dsy had been a blast either - no mention of any celebration for George, though he didn't start work till 3 that afternoon, so there would have been time - that was the last day Cindy had Caylee. Interesting theory re Father's Day and paternity test - whatever did or did not happen that day, it doesn't sound as if George was feeling the love from his family.


Hey Jude said...

Chris - I agree, Cindy wanted to believe - somewhere within herself though, she must have known there was no Zanny, which makes it so incomprehensible that she, and George, let it go on for so long when it involved the welfare of their grand-daughter. It would not be so astonishing if Caylee had not lived with them every day of her life, but they must have been like second parents, and they knew Casey's word could not be relied upon - no Caylee on the phone, no photos sent from Casey's phone. I can believe they might reasonably have let things pass for a week, possibly two, as Cindy had it in her mind that Casey was punishing her by not allowing her to see or speak to Caylee, but that she was never with her, that must have soon become worrying. I think by the time Cindy had started sleeping with one of Caylee's soft toys, she knew, or strongly suspected, that Caylee was dead. The way she speaks about finding and cleaning Caylee's doll in the car - I think she knew for sure she was dead - yet she went to work, and so did George. He drove the sometime "coffin' home, parked it in the garage, and went to work. Unbelievable - unless they knew Caylee was dead, and were trying to cover up that she had been in the car - then came to their senses, at least somewhat, the drier sheets and Febreeze not proving up to the task.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I tried to post to you earlier b4 you posted more but it disappeared. Here is what it said

I just wrote a response to you and it disappeared. No problem regarding the transcription error.
In short, the Caylee is Missing MySpace shows they were not in denial and did not believe in "the nanny". The MySpace page could be part of alibi building. (This is NOT to exclude Casey from involvement).
There are similarities between Patsy Ramsey's 911 call (the histrionics) and Cindy's 2nd 911 call (the histrionics). Anyone else notice that? I will listen again to Cindy's 2nd 911 call again later to see if I pick up on anything.

Are there any parallels between the phenomenon of JonBenets "foreign faction kidnappers" and Zanny the Nanny AS EXPRESSED IN THE 911 CALLS?
Any parallels between the "ransom note" and Cindy's Caylee Missing MySpace page?

a.n.o.n. said...

Anonymous, glad to see you picked a name.

Drowned said...

so when they found caylee, in the bag, her clothes were also in the bag, but not on her body, all that was on her body was the swimsuit?

Anonymous said...

no swimsuit found

Anonymous said...

and 'body' was a bag of bones and skull, not intact
you can find autopsy photos online, with duct tape entangled in her hair

Hey Jude said...

Here's the MySpace - it's an image, the account was deleted. Does that sound like it was addressed to Casey, or that Caylee was alive? Was it a journal thing, not intended for anyone else to read? I doubt she would put that on MySpace without being quite sure who the audience might be. She said it was only for Casey, yet it does not read as if addressed to Casey.

I agree, it does not show belief in a nanny. It is very self-pitying. I don't know if it is alibi building - at least not beyond an avoidance of how indulgent/enabling they were of Casey,who was out of control long before Caylee disappeared.

https://jessicaspraggins.wordpress.com/2011/05/31/cindy-anthonys-myspace-post-july-3-2008/


I will listen to Cindy's 911 calls again, too. Maybe I don't feel so bad for them seeing how they have adjusted - I don't know, though, it must be hellish to live with all that. I think the worst aspect, after what was done to Caylee, is that George and Cindy knew for at least some time that Caylee was in a bag in the woods,..I find that so hard to believe, yet they did know, or Cindy, at least, knew - 'Caylee's not in the woods, or anything'...something like that. How can Caylee go from being in her Winnie the Pooh nursery to being in a bag in the woods?

Alexandra said...

Thank you Hey Judd for Cindy's MySpace. Wow. What's interesting is that Cindy creates a narrative so we understand she is so wonderful.

THIS is CONCERNING: From Cindy "All I am guilty of is providing a safe home."

Cindy refers to Caylee as a precious little angel from above.

I am on my phone so referring back and forth to Cindy's MySpace is difficult. However, in my opinion, this is alibi building. Ie. She is not guilty, she provided a SAFE home for the "precious angel" paid for everything, she did nothing wrong, Casey wouldnt change, she is a thief, that is why she left not bc she needed space and Cindy was controlling. How can we ignore an embedded admission of guilt?

All I AM GUILTY of is providing a SAFE home.
extra words tell us a lot. The home wasnt safe. Cindy is guilty of something also and alarming when you see "I am guilty" in such close proximity to "precious little angel from above". Dont you think?
Cindy supplies motive also for her audience.
"Jealousy"
Cindy's MySpace is alibi building imo.

Anonymous said...

Also, since Cindy tells us Casey is a thief why does she also say that she "loved and trusted her the most?

Chris said...

Yes, Jude, the Longer Caylees remains lay undiscovered, the better it would be for Casey in court. I remember also that Cindy added some of her yorkie's pet hair to Caylee's hairbrush before turning it over to LE for evidence. At first glance, one would have empathy for the grieving parents. But the more you find out about the cover up (private investigator fiasco, etc.) the more you doubt they were genuine in their actions.
It is the same reaction I get when I hear people say Casey will Suffer the rest of her days knowing what she did. Her personality disorders are such that she will NEVER accept Responsibility for what she did to her child - so she will Not have grief or Remorse. She has always conveyed (in one way or another) that Caylee's death was the fault of Someone Else. And the lies she admitted to were also Caused by others. THIS is how she can Sleep pretty good at night.....

Anonymous said...

Great detective work everyone!

Alexandra said...

I happened to stumble on this while looking for Cindy 911 calls. The link shows Cindy on the stand talking about the myspace posting and Casey leaving without warning. I only watched about 15 min. but it seems Cindy called Casey at three (3) o'clock in the afternoon the day before she posted the myspace about Cayley missing to discuss Casey having left. She repeats this at least twice spread out in speech 3 0'clock in the afternoon is when she talked to Casey the day before she posted the "Cayley Missing" myspace. It seems the phonecall according to Cindy was congenial. Yet the following day she posted the myspace because Cayley was missing "in her heart".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM7O0YUnXEk

Tiffany Gerik said...

Could Lee be Caylee's father? Was he ever tested? That could be why the family was so ashamed of Caseys pregnancy.

Anonymous said...

Yes Lee was tested he is not the father.

I believe Casey was framed.

Both parents are lying. George is a molester. And you can see the framing of Casey step by step right up until George smells "human decomp" in her car (yeah right I don't buy it). Also 3:00 phone call is bull. Cindy's Myspace "Missing in My Heart" posted the next day is bull.

I stumbled on this. This is interesting and this is more what I believe happened.

http://caseyanthonyisinnocent.com/exposing-the-myths-lies-and-bs-and-uncovering-the-truth-about-the-casey-anthony-trial/immaculate-deception-the-untold-story-of-caylee-marie-anthony-casey-anthony/

Tiffany Gerik said...

This is an excellent point. Perhaps he wanted to be in the room because he is the father.

Anonymous said...

No, Tiffany, he's not the father. Read the link at 1055 if you want to understand what happened.

Hey Jude said...

It is alibi building in the sense Cindi is trying to exonerate herself of feelings of guilt, I agree - she would feel guilty because (according to Lee, whose police interview I am listening to now), Cindy had said to Casey that Caylee was a mistake, but she was the 'best mistake' Casey had made. That was an unkind/unnecessary thing to say, probably she had an arsenal of similarly endearing barbs; it seems from Lee's interview that Cindy piled on the pressure with regard to how she, rather than Casey, was supporting Caylee. I don't care for Lee's attitude - he laughs at several points, as though it might be appropriate. Maybe it's a nervous thing. A bit iffy as to whether that was the first time he encountered the smell in the car, too. I wonder if they all knew more than they were saying.

I also listened to an interesting snippet from Casey's aunt who said on the Sunday (Fathers' Day) night there had been an argument which got physical - Cindi hit Casey - in an argument which escalated, over Casey stealing money which had been put aside to pay her grandfather's care home fees.

I also watched a series of video clips of Caylee, in one of which she was snuggled up on said great-grandfather, at the care home - he was singing to her, 'You are my sunshine, my only sunshine....please don't take my sunshine away...' was that video taken that day, did he intuit, or did he sing that every time he saw her, IDK, except it was sad in view of what happened. Maybe Casey did kill Caylee to punish them all, even her grandfather for needing a care home. Well, it makes you wonder - she certainly took his sunshine away.

Who took the 'momtective' series of videos? - it seems strange to me, to video a toddler for so many minutes,yet without speaking to her. Caylee was very chatty and smiley, regardless, so someone must have talked to her a lot.

I was thinking that despite their flaws and how they have behaved since Casey went so horribly wrong, the family must be so heartbroken to have lost Caylee. Next I was thinking why am I thinking that? - they *knew* she was in a bag in the woods - whatever heartbroken might mean to them, it must be something different to what it means to most other grandparents who lwould not live with the knowledge their grandchild was in a bag in the woods.

I need to get into the way of thinking that actually, they are different to most parents, and grandparents. They were the tree from which the Casey apple didn't fall very far - Casey did not get the best of nature or nurture. It's difficult though, to think like that, because George was a police officer for almost ten years, and a detective for some of that time, while Cindy was a paediatric nurse - you (I) don't expect for them to lie so much, and expect even less for them to have produced someone like Casey. They would have intended to do their best by their kids, even if it didn't work out that way - even then, they wouldn't have anticipated how Casey turned out.

I have some sympathy for Casey. I believe they disabled her through over-indulging and enabling her, so she did not learn to take responsibility; I think she became over-dependent, then trapped and frustrated by her situation. That's the extent of my sympathy - nothing can justify what she did to Caylee - only her state of mind might help to explain it. I was hoping she might write a book, but then I remembered it would be full of lies, and that anyone who bought and read it would be condemned by the people,who didn't think it should be bought or read.






Anonymous said...

I don't believe George and Cindy's stories. Based on SA, based on gut feeling. Cindy and George are NOT telling the truth. I absolutely believe George killed her, made it look like a pool drowning, told Casey she would be blamed, and told her to leave, and from there the BS starts. I know George is not the father, but I believe he thought he could be...that's very apparent during Baez's cross-examination of him where it is revealed George refrained from asking who the father was. Not out of curiosity, not out of practicality, not out of anything (even though the state could have taken child support out of the guy's check every week), still, George did not want to know who the father was.
I'm going to differ with you guys here...I don't believe Cindy and George, I don't believe what they say, I don't believe the home was "safe", I don't believe them. Period. These 2 are actually very transparent. I mean, geez, simple SA shows George molested Casey. Like, literally, 10 seconds of analysis led me to understand George molested Casey. Common sense tells me he also molested CAylee. He's a molester, Cindy lives in her own fictional world where George is a "loving" father. Cindy shows so many indicators of setting up Casey to be framed after George disposed of CAylee. Starting with the fictional 3:00 phone call. I don't believe these 2 and it's shocking that people here can't see what liars they are. Christ, Phoebe DePietro is a good liar compared to these two.

Anonymous said...

How can this quilt be pieced together to fit the story of the prosectution. Any youtube video showing testimony from George or Cindy that I watch is a lie. Any evidence I've seen like the Cindy myspace is a lie, How do you piece a quilt together with lies?

How did Cindy know, 2 days after Casey left with Caylee that Caylee was "a little angel from above"??? People do not refer to a living child that way.

Then previous to that you have a 3:00 phone call from Cindy to Casey checking up on why Casey left without warning. Of course it was at 3:00!!! Not at 4, not at 5, not at 8!!! No of course it was at 3:00.

And, at the helm of this boat, you have a child molester named George.

I have always been wary of looking at this case because of the lynch mob mentality...I think intuitively I knew (without knowing all the details of the case but knowing other citizens knew more) that things had to be "framed" a little too perfectly for Casey to be seen as such a deplorable monster that she was "the worst person on earth". Then I see George now that I'm looking at the case and I'm hearing lies and lies and lies and from Cindy also lies and lies.

Anonymous said...

Last thing I'll say, from link I posted: Check out the video of George under the section "Chloroform and Duct Tape"--at around 8:15, Baez is asking him how he buried his deceased dog in Ohio, and George is agreeing that the dog was wrapped in a blanket and placed in a plastic bag and then GEorge says was "placed there".
George used this exact phrase placed there in his fake suicide note when he asked who placed CAylee there?

Anonymous said...

And keep in mind George is saying that he was the one who placed the dog (in its grave) in their backyard. This is how he refers to himself burying the dog. He also asks in his fake suicide note "Who placed CAylee there?

Three said...

Then previous to that you have a 3:00 phone call from Cindy to Casey checking up on why Casey left without warning. Of course it was at 3:00!!! Not at 4, not at 5, not at 8!!! No of course it was at 3:00.

^^^
What time were the internet searches on the computer?

Anonymous said...

Good question.

Chris said...

More fodder to consider, Jude:
See if you can access the video tapes of the jailhouse phone calls -snippets were shown on the media. You might gain some insight on the relationship between Casey and her family members.
One disturbing exchange was when brother Lee asked Casey if "this is like the Last time". Lee & parents were trying to locate Caylee's whereabouts (where the nanny might have taken her).
The web of Lies Casey is telling is very intriguing, as well as the reactions/responses by the parents & Lee. All jailhouse communication is recorded and open to the public - except between attorney & client. (Casey and Baez bent the rules during their meetings also)

Hey Jude said...

Chris, Thank you so much I will look at those to see if I can figure out the relationship dynamics after I catch the big rat running around it's been a hard day in England. I hope you guys are having a better day in the U.S.!

Anonymous said...

Everything you do and say is a manipulation "anon". You treated me like dogshit years ago. I walked away with my head held high...at least I had the guts to be real, give my heart to someone etc. You were nothing more than a coward and manipulative cruel psychopath. You don't deserve the time of day from me, never have and I am so sorry you somehow ended up here on this board. You are manipulative, conniving, untrustworthy, insincere, and disingenuous. And yes your friend is a pathological liar who fabricated a lie about me which looking back I now wonder if that contributed to your mistreatment of me. I don't care, because it's not worth my thought. You are an absolute manipulator, I apologize to you for nothing, and I will never respond to you, or give you what you don't deserve which is the pleasure of talking to me on here. Again. Ever. You really are a horrible person. I did the right thing to get the hell away from you years ago.

Anonymous said...

but you Did Respond

Anonymous said...

I see this blog has opened up many thoughts and analysis, though some still have their front page set to Trump (can’t get enough of him)
The blog starts with that picture of Casey in her home (i asume it is her home, where she's living)
I wonder if the picture was taken on command as to "go stand over there, look at the picture...." or that she was talking about things and got to stand in front of that picture when the photograph decided to take a picture.....
First thing I noticed (after seeing the lovely face of little Caylee) is the look on Caseys face when shes looking at that picture of the two of them.
In SA you look at what is expected, isnt it? For some reason i don't find her look at that pic expected from a mother who lost her baby. But as i said the way this picture is taken does make a difference. Still the way she looks at that pic, it just bothers me. (but that is not SA :P)
In one of the links presented by a reactor, there was another picture of Casey looking at the little frame standing in front of those books.
Some have refered to one of these books.
So i looked into some of the other books that could be seen in that pic.
"To Kill a Mockingbird" (https://www.delphibooks.us/to-kill-a-mockingbird-book-review/)
"Zen and the Art of Happiness" (https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Happiness-Chris-Prentiss/dp/0943015537)
"Ghost of the wooden sound"
"An African in Greenland" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_African_in_Greenland)
"As I lay dying" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_I_Lay_Dying)
"Untill I say - Goodbye"(https://www.amazon.com/Until-Say-Good-Bye-Year-Living/dp/0062241478)
"The Andy Warhol Dairies" (https://www.amazon.com/Andy-Warhol-Diaries/dp/0446391387)
Don't know if she has read them of course or that her partner has.
"The last time I saw my daughter I believed she was alive and was going to be okay, and that's what was told to me"
AP: “She was being babysat? With your parents?”
ANTHONY: “No, my father told me she was going to be OK. That she was OK.”
AP: “So your parents had her?”
ANTHONY: “My dad did. My mom was at work.”
AP: “The next thing you know she is missing? How did it play out?”
ANTHONY: “I did what I was told. I don’t remember too much of what happened. Again, there were several psychological evaluations. Even after everything transpired, even months, even within a year, I don’t have personal knowledge of these things, because, and this isn’t my belief, I read the evaluations. I wasn’t present during whatever happened.
She isnt using Caylee's name (only my daughter and she)
She believed Caylee to be alive when she last saw her (she doesnt say she was sure) if your child is perfectly healthy and does not have injuries there would be no reason to doubt her living state you would know she was. "She was alive...when i last saw her". would have been the shortest way to say this, but she only believed it to be......HOWCOME? Did she done something (while not being babysat) that caused a state which would give doubt to if she was alive or not?
She's asked if Caylee was being babysat by her parents.
She says: No, my father told me she was going to be okay. That she was okay.
Why needed her father to tell her that she was going to be okay. That she was okay? Does this mean Caylee was hurting or unconsious, having seizures, beying sick, wounded? If she's GOING to be okay, it means she isnt okay at the moment. First she was going to be okay, followed by was okay, still she isnt saying that he told her she IS okay! They already talk in past tence not in present tence.

Habundia said...

I see this blog has opened up many thoughts and analysis, though some still have their front page set to Trump (can’t get enough of him)
The blog starts with that picture of Casey in her home (i asume it is her home, where she's living)
I wonder if the picture was taken on command as to "go stand over there, look at the picture...." or that she was talking about things and got to stand in front of that picture when the photograph decided to take a picture.....
First thing I noticed (after seeing the lovely face of little Caylee) is the look on Caseys face when shes looking at that picture of the two of them.
In SA you look at what is expected, isnt it? For some reason i don't find her look at that pic expected from a mother who lost her baby. But as i said the way this picture is taken does make a difference. Still the way she looks at that pic, it just bothers me. (but that is not SA :P)
In one of the links presented by a reactor, there was another picture of Casey looking at the little frame standing in front of those books.
Some have refered to one of these books.
So i looked into some of the other books that could be seen in that pic.
"To Kill a Mockingbird" (https://www.delphibooks.us/to-kill-a-mockingbird-book-review/)
"Zen and the Art of Happiness" (https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Happiness-Chris-Prentiss/dp/0943015537)
"Ghost of the wooden sound"
"An African in Greenland" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_African_in_Greenland)
"As I lay dying" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_I_Lay_Dying)
"Untill I say - Goodbye"(https://www.amazon.com/Until-Say-Good-Bye-Year-Living/dp/0062241478)
"The Andy Warhol Dairies" (https://www.amazon.com/Andy-Warhol-Diaries/dp/0446391387)
Don't know if she has read them of course or that her partner has.
"The last time I saw my daughter I believed she was alive and was going to be okay, and that's what was told to me"
AP: “She was being babysat? With your parents?”
ANTHONY: “No, my father told me she was going to be OK. That she was OK.”
AP: “So your parents had her?”
ANTHONY: “My dad did. My mom was at work.”
AP: “The next thing you know she is missing? How did it play out?”
ANTHONY: “I did what I was told. I don’t remember too much of what happened. Again, there were several psychological evaluations. Even after everything transpired, even months, even within a year, I don’t have personal knowledge of these things, because, and this isn’t my belief, I read the evaluations. I wasn’t present during whatever happened.
She isnt using Caylee's name (only my daughter and she)
She believed Caylee to be alive when she last saw her (she doesnt say she was sure) if your child is perfectly healthy and does not have injuries there would be no reason to doubt her living state you would know she was. "She was alive...when i last saw her". would have been the shortest way to say this, but she only believed it to be......HOWCOME? Did she done something (while not being babysat) that caused a state which would give doubt to if she was alive or not?

Habundia said...

She's asked if Caylee was being babysat by her parents.
She says: No, my father told me she was going to be okay. That she was okay.
Why needed her father to tell her that she was going to be okay. That she was okay? Does this mean Caylee was hurting or unconsious, having seizures, beying sick, wounded? If she's GOING to be okay, it means she isnt okay at the moment. First she was going to be okay, followed by was okay, still she isnt saying that he told her she IS okay! They already talk in past tence not in present tence.
"So your parents had her?" she's asked
"My father did"......again past tence.....he 'did had her?" (so he doesnt have her anymore?)
I think the next question isnt a good one for SA....if I am correct...double questions and suggestive....so one doesnt start talking from their own words but will use the words that are introduced by the interviewer
“The next thing you know she is missing? How did it play out?”
(What happened between, "my father did....and next thing she's missing?)
Because of the questioning we don't know. We can only speculate. It gives no oppertunity to let her tell what happened from "my father did" untill "how did it play out.
The way her missing was played out was "she did what she was told."
She does know that she did what she was told, but she (also) does not remember too much of what happened.
She doesnt remember 'too much'.......that means she does remember something (but she isnt saying and the reporter unfortunatly doesnt aks her either, so we don't know what she does remember of what happened.....we only know it wasnt 'too much')
Then she's switches on to 'several psychological evaluations' that have been done. What has that have to do with 'she did what she was told'? It's switching the subject to avoid answering the question with a real anwser (what she does remember, even if its 'not too much') Unfortunatly the interviewer let this oppertunity to aks further/deeper goes by.
"Even after everything transpired, even months, even within a year, I don’t have personal knowledge of these things, because, and this isn’t my belief, I read the evaluations."
This is not a good sentence, it misses information and seem to me like a mess/chaotic set of words.....again a way of creating confussion with not given any anwsers and detailed information. Just evasive and vague.
'Even' , used three times, which makes it double important (i know 'even' is a word of meaning, but for the moment i forgot what it exactly means.)
"After everything transpired", has 'everything transpired"? I don't think it has. It's not known how Caylee died, who's responsible for what action, so how can you speak of 'after everything transpired'? If she claims to be innocent and not quilty of the murder of her daughter, Caylee, then why would she say'everything transpired"? When no killer of her child is caught? Wouldn't one be wanting to find the killer? But she says everything is transpired. Yet no one is in jail for the murder on her child....and she doesnt seem to care or bother. Absolutly NOT expected language (reaction) from a mother whos child went missing and was found in the woods, murdered and no one is sentenced for it. (only aqquitted) No mother would ever 'sleep pretty good at night' after they experienced this kind of tragic lost and would know the killer of their child is still on the streets and could possibly hurt more children.
'Even months, even within a year", so less then a year, but more as two months, it has no referation, to what is even months, even within a year? 'After everything transpired'?

Habundia said...

'I don't have personal knowlegde of these things."
'Personal' is unnessasary language, which raises the question 'does someone else has personal knowlegde of these things where you do know of? If you say to have not?
'These things', which things? What is meant with things? Does she mean these psychological evaluations? or does she mean 'after everything transpired', things that has been 'transpired'?
Did she got personal knowlegde after that year? Because she didn't got it 'even within a year"
'and it isn't my belief', so she doesn't believe she hasn't got 'personal knowlegde about these things'? Or others don't believe she has 'personal knowlegde about these things'?
She 'read the evaluations'. She needed to read the evaluations to learn she doesn't have 'personal knowlegde about these things, but it is not what she believes.

I've done many psychological test throughout my life, just for 'fun' or to come to diagnose of some kind of mental problem i dealt with throughout my entire life. I know one thing for sure.........these tests are damn easy to manipulate. Most often it's a list of questions where you are required to answer these with honesty so it can come to a conclussion. If you do these test regularly, like i've done, it's real easy to get to the conclussion you want them to come to. You just need to answer the questions with those answers that will result in the resulstation you want (or want others to believe to be). For example if you want them to believe you are very happy person and dont have mental issues, then when you are asked if you ever experience any level of depression in your life then the answer would be NO or Never.....even if you have dealt with dark feelings and emotions for years you just tell them, no i have never felt that way.
The person who's getting these answers often hasn't got the slightest idea what the people around the person who's answering the questions, have to say because they never are asked. So these 'evaluations' all depands on the HONESTY of the person who's going to be evaluated. And of course you need a honest person who can make a honest conclussion of what they have observed and heard and have to be good at it. Not all who become psychologists have this capability, it's not that people are being tested to have some qualities before they may attent classes.......everyone who pays school fee will get the education. Nobody cares if they are suitable for the job....that's not a requirement to attent classes and get a degree.

Habundia said...

Based on this i would say:
- She knows that something was wrong with her child (she only believed she was okay), she didn't care enough to make sure her child was okay.
- I believe Casey has done something to Caylee which caused Caylee to get to a point which made Casey to 'believe she was okay', her father who was the one who told her that 'she would be okay, that she was okay', helped her or maybe she just pretended it to be.
It would be interesting to know where Casey was when she was told what to do. And where her father was when he told her 'she would be okay, she was okay'. What did she do after her father told her that? What was it that she was told to do? And what exactly did she do then?
It at least seems that both father and daughter have something to do with the death and disapearence of this little girl, Caylee.

Sorry for the first post as anonymous something went wrong so it got double posted. You may delete it if you want.

Anon "I" said...

Zanny was the name of a character in a book that the Anthony's had in their house. Zanny might also refer to Xanax.

I have never heard of a grandfather being present for a birth here in the USA. The father, yes, because he needs to know what his wife went through to bring THEIR child into the world. Plus, he's helpful to a mother because he's a person to blame while you are having the worst of contractions. :)

I have told my sons that the baby ALWAYS goes directly to the mother or father as soon as its safe for the baby (one son, now grown, is learning how to deliver babies in an emergency). My two sons were taken from me both times because they were preemies. The first one I got to kiss on the forehead as they hurried him away immediately and years later with the delivery of my second son, I saw only a fleeting glimpse). My husband videoed him (my second son next time) in the NICU for me to see. They (both times) responded to his voice. Afterward, even before the videos, my MIL tripped into my room telling me how beautiful my first was when I hadn't seen him yet!!! I didn't get any contact with them to adore and hold until later for 6 & 8 hours, respectively. It matters who gets to hold the baby first. At least to this mother. Hell hath no fury like a mother deprived of her babie(s).

Anonymous said...

Habundia, was your mental problem ever diagnosed? You say you have dark feelings and depression? Any periods of euphoria? Or mainly depression? Do you think you might suffer from borderline personality disorder combined with NPD?

Anonymous said...

Habundia, interesting what you wrote. Im curious, why would the people "around you" want your test results to come out a certain way?

Anonymous said...

Interesting the you were able to see the list of books, Habundia. Thank you for sharing. To Kill a Mockingbird is about injustice and perhaps might be read by a lawyer since it is about the lawyer Atticus Finch. Doesn't she live with a lawyer? or perhaps Casey herself feels she was the victim of injustice?

Hey Jude said...

I listened to Yuri Melich interview with Casey, and to him giving evidence in the trial, and to the jail visit between Casey and Lee, and Casey and her parents. I don't believe George sexually abused Casey. I think both the parents, and Lee, knew or strongly suspected that Caylee had died in Casey's care, and so they gathered themselves to do and say what they felt necessary to try to avoid Casey receiving the death penalty. It is the exchange between Casey and George, where he says he wished he was better grandfather etc, which convinced me - I think she would not respond to him in such a heartfelt way if he had abused her. It is one of the few moments when Casey is sincere and truthful.

That wouldn't rule out the possibility of pre-verbal sexual abuse. I don't imderstand how George's language rules him in as the perpertrator. Does it - can anyone point to any examples, or is there an analysis?

a.n.o.n. said...

At one point after the trial, Casey was interested in becoming a paralegal.
She lives with a defense investigator who worked on her case and also on OJ's defense team.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I do believe George molested CAsey. He does not make a reliable denial.

A.N.o.N. That is interesting about Casey thinking of going into the legal field. I also find it interesting that one of her defense attorneys was so generous to let her live with him. What do you make of that? Do you think he strongly believes in her innocence? It is a pretty generous thing to let her live with him.

Hey Jude said...

Is it possible George did not want to make too reliable a denial, as Casey's not getting the death penalty depended upon her winning the sympathy of the jury? He did deny it, though not vehemently enough? IDK. It's not as though he would say yes if he had not, but he would still want to say no, whether he had or not, but not necessarily with great conviction if he wanted to leave room for doubt? Some people will do anything for their kids. He already had lost his grand-daughter and was faced with his daughter receiving the death penalty.

I think George is very conflicted with regard to Casey. I think he may have found Caylee's body in the car. he says 'they' weren't in there - true, they were not. He says his grand-daughter was not in there - true, she was not, but was the corpse of his grand-daughter in there?

I think the suicide note 'who placed her there?' (of Caylee's remains in the woods) may be George's guilt because he 'placed' her there. Most people, especially the grandparents, would angrily describe Caylee's remains as having been dumped in those circumstances. So, is it that George found Caylee's body, dumped (placed) it there in a panic, and thereafter regretted that reaction, prevaricated to himself as to whether Casey killed Caylee it or not, knowing really she had, but convinced, or tried to convince himself, it was an accident. I think he is genuinely traumatised when he recalls discovering what he says was not in the car - he can't stand the memory of it - that is what the 'taking away my joy of life' (can't remember exact words) relates to - he can't bear the memory of having discovered Caylee's remains, and what he did with them, to cover for Casey. He only wants to remember Caylee, and the joy she brought him.

Tell me if I am very far off, and why that has to be so.

Chris said...

Jude, I think George was 'placed' in a very precarious predicament upon testifying on the stand. I think he and Cindy were forewarned that the defense would point toward George to create doubt about Casey - but the Details of their version of George's involvement were not disclosed, which is why George expanded his answers on the witness stand toshow his shock and protest.
George's reactions upon finding the car with the decomp odor shows anguish And great relief that he did not find either his daughter or granddaughter's remains in that car. At the time the car was located, Both Casey and Caylee were missing.
I do not think George was present when Caylee died AND I do not think George disposed of Caylee's remains.
"Why make an Accident look like a Murder?"
Also, in the video conversations from jail, I see genuine concern from George about Casey's well-being during incarceration. Casey reacts well to George's concern, while resisting her mother's investigative tactics. Casey does not want to answer to her mother Because Casey is crafting LIES to cover her crimeS. Casey feels Indignant that she is being held responsible Behind Bars for something that she will Not admit to.

Hey Jude said...

Chris - I would prefer to think,that George was not involved. However, if Caylee's body had been left to decompose in the car for weeks, thar would not have appeared to anyone to be the result of an accident - abandonment of the body would already raise the likelihood of the death as murder. He likely would have panicked on Casey's behalf - if Caylee's duct-taped body was in the car, then it already looked like a murder, rather than an accident, and he would have no doubts as to who was responsible, as he and Cindy had not seen or spoken with Caylee in a month, while Casey had hedged as to her whereabouts.

The forensic entomologist found the type of flies associated with decomposition in the car. Also the maggots in the car were similar to those found at the crime scene. According to the Wiki (I have not listened to forensic evidence yet - well, I listened at the time of the trial, but that has gone from memory), the FBI investigator said there was an outline like that of a child in the car - I don't know the details or why they would not also have found body fluids, though. Still, if Caylee's body outline was in the car, she was not in a bag at that time - the quilt, laundry and other bags came later from the Anthony home. Caylee's body was wrapped up in the same manner as the family dog which George had buried. It"s possible Casey could have witnessed that and did with Caylee what she'd seen George do with the dog. I would need more convincing. The body was apparently left in the car for some time - I don't think Casey would have been up for dealing with a maggot-riddled corpse, while George would have had more ability and stomach to deal with it.

I agree George and Cindy would have been primed with regard to the defence's tactics.

--
I noticed in the jail visit, how Casey referred in the past tense to Caylee (the snacks she liked) and Cindy repeated what she had said, but in present tense - after which Casey began to gabble, realising her mistake was recorded, then spoke of Caylee again, in present tense. From the cryptic nature of the conversations and lack of concern as to Caylee's predicament, they all knew Caylee was not alive - George said something along the lines that they had to move on from the point they were at, supporting each other as a family.

I think he knew and accepted he would be in the defence's firing line yet was not going to unnecessarily implicate himself or admit of any involvement in concealing Caylee's remains (if he did do that), as that would speak to his belief that Casey must have killed Caylee, and he knew it could not have been found to be an accident.

I think as time went on, he became more angry and more accepting of the fact that Casey killed Caylee and that it was not an accident, which maybe he had tried to convince himself to begin, even if the condition of Caylee's body said otherwise. He loves Casey - it is evident from the recording. but he regretted going the extra mile for her (if he did).




a.n.o.n. said...

Check on the date that Casey BACKED the car into the garage and borrowed the Shovel from the next door neighbor. (both Highly out of character for her) Caylee was deceased in the vehicle for 3 or 4 days, before the Smell caused her to figure out a way to 'bury' the body. Casey retrieved the laundry bags, blanket and trash bags from the Anthony home That day. The duct tape May have been taken from Casey's friend (Amy?) who she stole the checkbook from. Casey also BACKED the vehicle next to a dumpster in a parking lot when she abandoned it. Car was NOT out of gas, as George was able to drive it home upon retrieving it at the tow yard.
Casey had a busy couple days trying to figure out Caylee's disposal, leaving the parents Scrambling to figure out ways to cover for her Lies during the trial.

Hey Jude said...

Trying to find what Cindy might have said she found in the car - I can't see a blanket in the evidence photos from inside the car. There was a blanke visible, according to the lady who reported the abandoned car to the tow company. She said there was a smell which she associated with garbage from the dumpster, and she did not identify it as particularly coming from the car.

George would probably have taken his gas cans to fill the car, as he would have anticipated it would've been abandoned when Casey ran out of fuel. She might have been forced to abandon it before it ran out, due to the smell. Tow yard guy said he smelled the odour of decomposition when he leaned up to the window, though the car was locked. He recognised it as he had encountered it previously whenever a dead body of a person who had committed suicide was recovered inside a car he was called to towed.

So, Cindy went to the tow yard with George to retrieve the car, and was agitated not to have been informed sooner that the car had been towed, and of the towing fee - according to the tow guy.

Where is the blanket which was seen in the car the day before it was towed. Was Csylee's body under the blanket?

Casey borrowed a shovel - for what purpose?


Anonymous said...

winnie the pooh blanket missing from house with 2 cloth laundry bags from Target.
bags found with remains.
neighbor testified about the car backed into garage and KC borrowing shovel when both parents at work. dig mark attempts into hard soil found near playhouse where dogs alerted to decomp.
KC had broken into shed to steal gas cans days before.

Anonymous said...

How do you know who abandoned the car? HOw do you know it was not abandoned by Goerge or Cindy? Wouldn't it make extra sense to report her to authorities for "stealing" the car (kind of strange since they already had the car back but did not report it stolen when it was actually missing) if it was one of them who actually abandoned the car? To pin it on her?

Why would Casey have brought a dead body to her parents' house? As opposed to putting it somewhere else?

Casey backed the car into the garage? And that was unusual for her to do? Says who?

George's linguistics show that he speaks of HIMSELF burying his dog as "placed there".
George wrote in his fake suicide note "Who placed her there?" regarding Caylee's body.
CAylee's body was disposed of in exactly the same manner George buried his pets (wrapped in a blanket, and 2 plastic bags that were duct taped).

George lies so badly on the stand regarding not knowing who's duct tape was at his Kid Finder station.

Mandee JP said...

Lttg...
"The last time I saw my daughter I believed she was alive and was going to be OK, and that’s what was told to me.”

If you saw her why didn't you believe what you saw instead of "believing" she was alive? Because you chlorophormed her so you could party and she was "sleeping" but you thought alive and would be ok? Because someone or the web told you it wasn't harmful? This woman is so ridiculous. Who could lose their child not know what happened to their baby except that she was tossed in a trash bag and say they sleep pretty good at night? She sleeps like she partied with no regard for anyone but herself. Of course she knows what happened and it doesn't haunt her a bit. It's terrifying.

Mandee JP said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hey Jude said...

Listening to the tow-yard guy on the stand - he doesn't mention pizza or maggots, just a light weight plastic bag containing paper trash. He also doesn't say that he said, 'Here's your smell' - do I need to listen again? - maybe I missed it, or he is called back to the stand later. It's a lot to try to retain without taking notes - listening as I do other things, probably missing a lot. I think he just wanted them and the car out of his tow yard, especially knowing their daughter and grand-daughter were missing while the car smelled of decomposition.

Tiffany Gerik said...

Remember, the tow guy NEVER smelled that smell. George said it allowed first. Not the tow guy. Also, when the 911 call happens there's at least 6 cops pictured walking RIGHT NEXT TO THE CAR and not ONE of them can smell a dead body??

I think some of you need to listen to the jury interviews on YouTube explaining away things like the Chloroform. There was NO chloroform. They (the police investigators) literally proved that it was a 3 minute Bing search after Casey received a meme image about Chloroform from her boyfriend the day before on Myspace. She was likely looking it up to see what it was. If she had been searching "how to make chloroform" or, say, if she had done a 30 minute intense online research, that would be different. It was a brief in-and-out search, something I have done hundreds of times in my life about Lord knows what. You can go to Bing yourself and type in Chloroform---I did. Not one of those first links on the first page talks anything about making it whatsoever.

@HeyJude The fact that you think it is totally OK for a father to be in watching a live birth is frankly disgusting. As a woman this is so abursdly disgusting to think of my dad watching my vagina....and watching me push out blood (and feces)...Just WHAT? To prove this all you need to do is ask/talk to ANY women you know: mothers, sisters, cousins, co-workers. Ask them to be honest. Ask them if they would be OK with THEIR FATHER, not the father of the baby, being in the room and watching her give birth. That should clue you in. Do you know who's seen my vagina during birth? My husband. NOT my father. So disgusting to even think about that I don't know how to put that into words...and I can't understand how you are rationalizing that except you must be a man who's never had a child.

@Hey Jude: And NO he did not remember because he took a picture of Caylee's outfit. What world are you living in? HE WOULD HAVE SAID THAT ON THE STAND. He could have said that so many times, and SHOWN the picture as proof as to why he selectively remembered that bit of information. You are in such denial. He was the only other person home when this baby died. Do you get that? It's frustrating to even read what you're writing. The reason why he remembered the baby's outfit is because something TRAUMATIC happened (a baby died) and therefore he was highly stressed and will remember everything that happened during that time for the rest of his life. Peter has talked about this: vivid memories during high-stress situations.

@HeyJude you also keep giving more power to Casey than I think she ever had. Who named the baby? Cindi. Who controls her or attempts to? Her parents. She shows serious indicators from her promiscuity to her narcissistic/reckless/lying behavior which matches behavior of incest (or just sexual abuse) victims which you can do any amount of research on if you're interested. Even from her very soft voice to her bright mannerisms when speaking to her parents (and abuser) in the jail cell. She has no power. She was likely told her parents would be in the delivery room and that was that.

Tiffany Gerik said...

To continue further:

There's a reason the jury couldn't and didn't convict. According to them 1) They found George Anthony on the stand highly suspicious and obviously lying or dodging questions which they thought should be simple to explain and 2) There is zero proof how the baby even died and there was another person at home when this occurred.

Let's not forget that Casey also took Caylee into the bathroom and locked the door with her when she showered and while she slept. This was talked about in Baez's book and I believe confirmed by Cindi. Even Cindi during her deposition over Zenaida (you can watch it on YouTube) repeatedly called Casey a GOOD MOTHER. Casey's friends also talked about how attentive and loving and doting she was of her daughter. According to Casey's own mouth, she even said something along the lines of 'Caylee was the best thing that ever happened to me." Yet, she kept Caylee behind locked doors in their own home. To protect her from whom? I know who. The father. It's blatantly obvious to me.

Just like the Ramsey or Sheehan cases, you have an "accident" spiraling out of control with regards to the death of a child. What sort of accident happened that could be so awful as to make a parent or family member want to hide the truth? Hiding sexual abuse is seriously the only thing I can think of. Each of these 3 cases, I'm including the Anthony's here, has a cloud of suspicion of sexual abuse around them.

Remember also that Cindi and Casey had been fighting about custody-talks over Caylee and there was talk that Cindi just wanted to take Caylee but Casey didn't want to give her up. She could have. If she had wanted to be free of her daughter so badly, she could left her with mom and LEFT to go be free. But she didn't want that.

Anonymous said...

Tiffany, Great posts! I pretty much agree with everything you wrote.
I never knew Casey locked Cayley in the room with her when she showered or slept: that speaks volumes...obviously she was trying to protect her from George. The demented thing is that if Casey hadnt cared about Cayley and hadnt tried to protect him from George, she would also have a lynch mob after her for being an uncaring, neglectful mother. George molested Casey and Caylee and people are VERY stupid to believe him or Cindy's narratives. It also seems like Cindy had NO PROBLEM with George molesting people. What wife would ALLOW her husband to watch their daughter giving birth??? How could Cindy not feel for Casey having her father watch her giving birth? Something is very wrong with Cindy also. Why would she name Casey's baby? It sounds like Cindy thought George was Caylee's father so Cindy felt she was Caylee's rightful mother. What sickos both Cindy and George are!!

Hey Jude said...
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Hey Jude said...
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a.n.o.n. said...

Sorry, I forgot to believe anything from Baez' book or court stories. I forgot to believe that Casey was such a good mother that she would never drug her child to sleep in the trunk while she worked at Universal and partied at clubs and slept with her boyfriend du jour. I forgot to believe that parents were told that Caylee was with friends and vice versa, when she was Really with Zanaida the Nanny!
For 2 and a half years, when friends, parents, nanny & Casey herself were not babysitting,
"WHERE WAS CAYLEE?"

Hey Jude said...

Also, the tow guy said George did have fuel cans, and the car wouldn't start because it was out of gas - George put gas in and it started.
- which supports the likely scenario as having been that in which Casey abandoned the car only when it ran out of gas. I wonder how much longer she would have ridden around with her daughter's dead body if the car hadn't run out of gas.

Melody said...

I have not been sexually molested (unless you count getting grabbed in the crotch whilst riding the overcrowded Tube in London as a teenage tourist).
My dad was present in the delivery room for the full-term birth of my first child. He happened to be visiting from out of state when I went in to labor. My husband had an emergency of his own, and my dad was there to (try) to support and comfort me. It wasn't intrusive, and it made me feel safe and cared for. The doctor and nurses said it was Not unusual for grandparents to be present.
A few years later, I was present for the birth of a friend's baby. Birth is not a sexual event - it is a Natural event. It was an exhilarating event to witness!
My apologies if my actions 'disgust' you and make you feel uncomfortable.
Whether or not Casey was comfortable with her 'father' in the delivery room is really none of Your business. Your opinion on the matter says more about You than Her.

Anonymous said...

George watched the baby coming out of the vagina you stupid morons it's not normal and it is PERVERTED. What father would even want to watch that A PERVERT THAT IS WHO. It would have ENRAGED ME if my father ever watched me give birth THAT IS MOLESTERISH. Thank God I had a c-section I don't envy anyone who had a natural birth it sounds like hell regardless of who is the room.

It's disgusting enough that men become OBGYNs. A BUNCH OF PERVERTS.

Anonymous said...

This conversation needs to end. Fathers watching their daughters give birth is disgusting especially if it's their teenage daughter. I've never heard of it happening except with George Anthony. This conversation has run it's course w trolls now lying and saying their fathers watched them give birth.

Tiffany Gerik said...

@Hey Jude I will have to look back into the tow guy's comments. Which I'll do when I get time. But what I remember was that he simply said it "smelled bad" and that George had brought up the topic of human decomposition. And the tow truck driver verified that. But, I could be wrong.

Well I find your complete acceptance of a father watching his child's vagina as she births the afterbirth quite interesting as well. It, too, says a lot about you. I can tell you, because I will be talking to my girlfriends about this, that that ideology is not typical. Perhaps it is more common in the UK, though?

Birth is not sexual, yet your sexual genitalia are exposed; hence just one of my issues with wanting my dad...my DAD to see that. My sister's OB had told her it was 80% of all laboring women will either deficate or urinate or both during labor; and my midwife had something similarly. I'm surprised you don't know this. I thought it was common knowledge, especially among mothers/pregnant women. But, again, maybe there's different things taught because you are not in the states. Historically, as my midwife would say, women give birth around other women. Oftentimes without men there, or if there is a man, it is generally the father. I actually have an appt with her tomorrow, I will have to ask her if this is common.

That's fine that you had your father at your birth. It is not typical from anything I've ever heard or read from people I know or those pregnancy books or maternity forums that I frequent. But I could be being ignorant and the number of maternal fathers present at delivery's could be far higher than I think it is.

Tiffany Gerik said...

@A.n.o.n Baez's book has some interesting insight. I read the prosecution's book first, and if you haven't read either I'd suggest starting there if you want good books. Baez had a deep look into the Anthony family, which he rather openly discusses, including how he thought Casey had killed her daughter for a good year-and-a-half (and he was struggling to come up with a defense strategy) until he heard/experienced a strange conversation at the Anthony house, then he realized that Casey might've been molested. That began that whole charade.

This is the first I've heard, even after reading the two lawyers' books I recommended above, that Casey would drug her daughter and leave her in the trunk of her car while she worked (for what? like 3 months?) at the photography job in Universal. Please, please post links or information on this. None of the jurors mentioned it and I can definitely say it was not in those books!

None of us can say where Caylee was during "nanny visits". You make it sound very suspicious, but as a mom, the first thing I thought was that even lying about the nanny and stating the child was in one place, and she at work--Casey easily and likely had Caylee with her wherever she went to fuck off. Whether at a different friend's house, or one of her "neutral" places. I think the baby was always with her. JMO.

Tiffany Gerik said...

@Hey Jude Personally, I thought it had been corroborated that Casey had in fact driven the car until it ran out of gas. Because I thought her boyfriend Jesse Grund had verified to police that he had driven to a random street to pick Casey up that day.

And if there was body decay in that trunk, as the prosecution argued, why did Cindi clean it out while also calling 911. You'll remember in her 911 call that "it smells like a daed body's been in the trunk!" And then she goes on to say "and my granddaughter's been missing for X days." IT just seems odd to me that she would clean the car when she'd also learned that Caylee was missing. I would like to know if she started cleaning it before she learned or after.

@Melody Yes, well it is disgusting to me. Very much so. We all have sensitive points and thresholds of personal boundaries. The very idea of my father seeing my genitals, let alone watching me push out a baby/matter/placenta--this wasn't George Anthony standing bedside stroking his daughter's hair lovingly--he potently describes watching the birth from the vaginal POV.--is too much for my personal boundaries. To me it is disgusting. That is perfectly fine that it was a pleasant and positive experience for you. For me, the very thought is abysmal. You seem to have taken this very personally. It is just my opinion and I assure you nothing to get bothered about.

Tiffany Gerik said...

@Anonymous Anonymous said...
This conversation needs to end. Fathers watching their daughters give birth is disgusting especially if it's their teenage daughter. I've never heard of it happening except with George Anthony. This conversation has run it's course w trolls now lying and saying their fathers watched them give birth.

March 21, 2017 at 9:39 PM

----

Thanks for saying that. That's exactly what I thought. Trolls. But I was trying to be open-minded.

Hey Jude said...

Another possible reason Casey may have kept Caylee with her in the shower and at night - she just did not want for her grandparents to interact with her when she was not also there due to jealousy or fear that Caylee would prefer her grandparents. Which any toddler would be likely to in preference to being drugged in the trunk of a car. She maybe did not want them questioning her as she became able to talk and could only draw a blank on the nanny. We don't know how regular an occurrence it might have been but one might think not only the time she was killed, going on how often the nanny's services were said to be called upon.

It is interesting how good a relationship Casey had with Caylee, according to the witnesses - except one would assume, when she left her with the 'nanny'. I suppose Caylee would be asleep before she put her in the trunk so she wouldn't know unless she woke - difficult to imagine she might never have awoken, or suffocated before Casey returned to the car. - It's hot in Florida, she could not have done that except maybe during some cooler nights some months of the year.

Caylee would've been so traumatised if she woke in the trunk, it's difficult to imagine she would not be clingy as a result - so maybe Casey could not sleep or shower or do anything much without her, unless she drugged her again. Might have created a cycle - or maybe she just did it that once, in order to kill her, because like she said, maybe she was a 'spiteful bitch'. Came to the end of the road, and was not going to give Caylee up to Cindy - it is so demented, though - there would have been other options.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Weighing in here Tiffany et al, we've already established that the Anthony family is far from "normal"- yours or most people's. So, arguing about how "normal" it was for George to be in the delivery room for Caylee's birth is kind of a mute point. You cannot state that because he was, he MUST have molested Casey any more that I can argue that because you were in the Men's Dept. at some point, you MUST be gay. Just because someone is somewhere they might not "normally" be or is generally unexpected, doesn't automatically make them guilty of anything-nor can it be automatically considered evidence of a crime (molestation). That's forcing the details to fit your narrative.

Civil discussion is agreeing without being disagreeable, attacking other posters, or demeaning them. Let's keep it civil- I wouldn't want this blog to be confused with the Comment Section under any Major Media news article, a Facebook page/InstagramPost/Twitter Tweet, nor the free-for-alls known as "other Crime solving blogs". I'd like to think we're all above that. ;)

Hey Jude said...
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Hey Jude said...

Yeah, it would be ridiculous - she couldn't have done that as a regular thing. I agree, Casey most likely had Caylee with her when she said she was with the nanny - the nanny was a cover story for how she could be at work. The witnesses said they saw Caylee with her and they had a good relationship.

Yes, re the car running out of gas and the boyfriend collecting Casey. I know that now.

----
There's a lot to listen to and remember - I'm commenting either without having heard, or remembered quire some of it.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

IIRC, LE did in fact find evidence consistent with decomp in the trunk, along with a piece of Caylee's hair, and the outline of a small child in the fetal position imprinted upon the carpet matting (which means the matting had been wet at some point). They also found chemicals consistent with cleaning the trunk.

By the time LE was called about the car, Cindy had cleaned it quite thoroughly and it had been aired out for some time as well. I would not expect any officer standing outside next to the car to be able to automatically detect it. A cadaver dog? Yes. An officer? No. An LE axiom- Sometimes what you don't find is just as revealing as what you do find. In other words, a car can be too clean. Case in point, a teenage party girl toddler mom, with no job, no visible means of support, freeloading off friends and boyfriends, and living at times out of her car with rotting food and trash isn't likely to have a pristine, freshly cleaned trunk. Just sayin'

Hey Jude said...

Yeah, I'm not going to comment on Casey any more, Fools, not for the time being - I get carried away sometimes, and it's not even vauguely SA, though there's lots of interesting potential for it, just not by me or some others here. :-/

Anonymous said...

Tiffany, Hey Jude does not have any insights about giving birth because Hey Jude is male. Don't buy into his pretend "Im from England and my name is Hey Jude" personality.

Anonymous said...

Fools, a woman being in a Men's Clothing section (she could be shopping for her husband, son, father) is in no way analogous to a father violating his daughter's boundaries and participating in perverse incestuous voyeurism by watching his daughter give birth. Are you so foolish to think that George had no problem watching Casey give birth but would have respected her other boundaries like when she was taking a shower or changing or anything else? George is a molester.

Anonymous said...

George does not give a reliable denial when asked if he molested Casey, so just stick to SA and you have your answer instead of going around and around with this bizarre birthing analysis.

Regarding Casey's car, Did Cindy vacuum the trunk. Odd that a hair would even be in there if Cindy so thoroughly cleaned. George or Cindy probably put the hair in the car. ONce the hair is in the car that could leave signs of decomposition. GEorge set Casey up.

Anonymous said...

Men who transgendrize thenselves into women have NO IDEA what it is really like to be a woman! I'd like to see these transgender men deal with PMS and cramps and pregnancy and on and on and on and also have to deal with MEN!!!!!!! They wouldn't be able to handle it for a WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Jude said...
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Hey Jude said...

I think the reason I thought Casey had locked Caylee in the trunk at other times was because I had been thinking maybe it was an accident that time - it's left over thinking, as I no longer think it was an accident. In fact, it was nuts to think that could have been an accident. I think she did it against Cindy, and she also wanted to wreck the car as she could no longer use it. Well. The 'spiteful bitch' comment was interesting, and it came from her own mouth rather than any suggestion from Lee. So, is there a reason not to believe her when she gives that as a reason for her behaviour?

Peter Hyatt said...

There is no such thing as "transgendering"

such is body dysmorphia and is exploited by politicians for their own personal gain.

It is a very important point because by turning mental illness into a "civil right", the victims continue to suffer.

It is now difficult to find a therapist willing to treat dysmorphia and risk licensing, protests, and even violence.

Peter

Tiffany Gerik said...

@Foolsfeedonfolly I didn't mean to make it sound that just because the father was in the room for delivery equates to him molesting her. I based my opinion on the sexual allegations made through SA and on Casey's personality and George's deflection and evasion of answering questions regarding the abuse and his unreliable denial of it. For me it is not just this one thing, it is the culmination as a whole that points to the oddness in this family.

@anonymous I also still believe Hey Jude is male. Just wanted you to know I picked up on that as well and agree.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude is female. It shows in her writing.

I picked a female name because I'm a woman, and I was attacked by an anonymous poster accusing me of being male pretending to be female. It's a shame some people ruin it for others.

Anonymous said...

"I picked a female name, because Im a woman"

Next time dont start off your BS with a statement SCAN would highlight as SENSITIVE.

My, my, my you're not too bright, are you?

Hey Jude said...

I shifted my opinion somewhat on the transgender issue since reading what you wrote earlier, Peter. I looked into it more and found hormones and reassignment surgery did not resolve the identity issues of many who believed they were born in the wrong body - it often has disastrous results, but that is not brought to the attention of those seeking to become the other gender, or generally to the public.


Anonymous said...

Don't be so sure of yourself, anon.


Anonymous said...

Hey Jude, I would caution you against looking too deeply into the issue bc it is highly disturbing. Most so-called "transgendered" men actually have a sexual fetish for dressing as a woman, and are PROFOUNDLY self-centered, letting their sexual perversion overtake their life much like a serious addiction. Also they expect their partners to turn into lesbians "bc they so say". Many of their partners experience nervous breakdowns and profound disgust at being asked to be the sexual partner as a man dressed as a woman. I can imagine, unfortunately as I have a vivid imagination: I don't think anything could be more disgusting than a man visualizing himself as a woman nevermind dressing like one in bed. It would more disgusting than being forced to be an actual lesbian. There is something so nauseating about a man "tucking" his privates, stuffing a bra, wearing makeup all while having a male frame...I lack the words to describe it. STOMACH TURNING, HIDEOUS, OSCENE, REPULSIVE. It would make their partner feel covered in slime. I can imagine many women attempt suicide after experiencing their husband visualizing himself as a woman in bed. I know I would vomit and scrub my flesh with a brillo pad.

Anonymous said...

There is an awesome movie about this issue w Jessica Lang called "Normal" based on a true story. Her hubby turns into a woman. The movie is unbelievably good--I bawled my eyes out bc you just can't imagine what this woman was subjected to. She ends up staying w him in the end. It is so disgusting watching his transformation: he grows breasts, tells her "I think I finally know how to please you" while feeling up his man-boobs. The next day he has privates removed. It is REPULSIVE.

Anonymous said...

LGBTQ community has become the Trendy option among young adults these days.
It's a form of rebellion, like antidisestablishmentarianship.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

I think the reason Casey kept Caylee with her when she was showering or sleeping was twofold:

1. Caylee was becoming increasingly verbal and Casey wouldn't be able to control what she might say. Casey also couldn't control what Cindy might ask Caylee.

2. Cindy was becoming increasingly fed up with Casey's behavior. Stealing from the Grandparents was the straw breaking the camel's back. Up to that point, Cindy had been able to lie about Casey and her behavior with nobody really challenging her on it. Image was/is everything to Cindy. Cindy's mom calling out Casey's theft threatened Cindy's carefully maintained image.

Then there's the whole issue of Casey being jealous of the money, time, and attention Cindy was giving Caylee...when George and Cindy were getting fed up bankrolling Casey. By keeping Caylee with her, she was depriving Cindy and George of interacting with Caylee. It was all about control. Casey wasn't worried about anyone molesting Caylee- look at the the company she kept, sleeping with various guys, Caylee in the bed too. She was doing a ton of partying, which meant drunk/passed out/sleeping late hung over with Caylee who knows where and in who's care...not George and Cindy's, nor the Nanny.

Anonymous said...

Fools, I think you're really onto something.

Esme Phe said...

The world stops turning when we turn on each other.

Hey Jude said...

Well, I found interesting, and generally quite challenging, what Peter wrote a while back about a person not being able to change their genetic biological status. It riled me somewhat, but I have to admit that while you can talk round things and in so doing obscure difficult truths, the truth remains, whilst denial of a truth which is obvious to others often relies on inhabiting the echo chamber of socially acceptable views, and I'm quite good at that. We all have certain echo chambers - it's good to venture out of them at times.

I find I am no longer able to accept the 'gender is fluid' claim - it already was a bit iffy; one may have a feeling, but gender is not a feeling. Just as identifying as black cannot make a white person black, or identifying as a cat cannot make a person feline, identifying as the opposite sex, even undergoing surgery, cannot change the biology.

Over the past few months I have watched lots of YouTubes, and read some websites about people who regretted transitioning - the failure rate is not often publicised. There is a lot of NTP is the language of those who identify as other than their birth gender.

That said, if it works for a person, enabling them to live a good life happily, I think live and let live, and good for them - it is much preferable to them living miserably, or committing suicide.

What is not often covered by the media is how often it does not turn out, and how high the suicide rate is post-surgery in those who undergo sexual reassignment surgery. It is presented as if the suicide rate amongst transgender people is generally so high due to lack of acceptance, or inability to afford treatment, whereas the rate is also high amongst those who had, apparently, 'successfully' completed their transition to the desired gender. I don't know the rates, except higher than for the general population.

I found the parents who paraded their gender conflicted children on TV tended towards the manipulative. I suspected some children were most conflicted by the belief they would be letting their parents down if they decided they wanted to be a girl or boy, after all, and said they no longer wished to pursue gender transition - it was sometimes the parents' agenda, taken up while the child was yet a toddler - over-parenting of the worst type, I'd say.

Individual cases aside, which are apt and no doubt sometimes designed to pull on the heartstrings - it is the social impact of undermining young people's developing sense of self which I think should be of concern in a climate where transgenderism is popularised, normalised and sometimes celebrated.

Little attention is given to the many incidents of suicide amongst those who transitioned. Many seek reversal surgery, realising they made a mistake. Someone profits from the unnecessary surgical mutilations and reconstruction surgeries made upon mentally fragile people who may have benefited from a different type of help.

It might help if the professionals who deal earliest with the gender conflicted were to concentrate more on who they cannot ever really be, despite surgery and hormones. A change of birth certificate cannot change genetic identity - the chances are high they will still be conflicted, and possibly suicidal a few years down the line. Gender dysmorphia is not a physical illness - a physical approach may not be most helpful - that is not information often offered by those providing the services.

Hey Jude said...

Anon - Too late, I already did. They are not the gender-conflicted I am thinking about - you are talking about transvestites, who are different, and opportunistically jumping on the bandwagon by these days calling themselves transgender. I have heard them refer to actual women as 'the women' or 'women' whilst calling themselves 'the girls'. It is evident they do not identify with or as women, they are their own subculture, play-dressing, role-playing, mimics, a parody.


I only care about the kids and young people who are genuinely conflicted.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jude,

ACtually MOST people who claim to be transgendered have a sexual fetish for dressing as a woman...the natural place this will lead for MANY is the desire to actually "become" a woman...that is what their sexual fetish revolves around. They lie profusely to attempt to get the surgery, saying they feel they are in the wrong body. Also, cross-dressing does lead to the man becoming homosexual in EVERY case--it is the natural outcome of wanting to be admired and desired as a woman.

The amount and degree of abuse they put their partners through is startling. It really amounts to very injurious sexual abuse of their partners. I have read personal stories online, and it is unbelievable the bizarre and abusive world these cross-dressers drag their partners into. The cross-dressers behavior is very frightening...I'm surprised noone's written a horror story starring a cross-dresser. These men will typically ask can they wear women's underwear during sex and if the woman says yes, typically the man will take that as a green light to begin dressing as a woman AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. This becomes their main activity. The wives typically experience revulsion, the cross-dresser is actually imagining the woman as a man making love to him actually it's more like they are making love to themselves. It's quite scary and well beyond normal narcissism, possibly psychotic in my opinion. And the personna of the cross-dresser as a woman seems to compete with the actual woman and is often also very abusive. It seems like an alter-ego these men have. A scary one. Some of the men will become abusive if their partner's don't immediately come into the bedroom to do their make-up and their hair. Many of these women end up in mental hospitals.

These men are so sick. They begin tucking their privates, taking hormones to grow breasts, some even begin wearing sanitary napkins.
I watched a youtube video that actually tried to put it into a good light, but I find the appearance of these men strongly suggests satanic possession along with the "alter-ego", the way this "Possesses" them and they develop a different personality that mocks women in such a garish way.
Those who genuinely feel they are of another gender have been found to have serious personality disorders as well as profound ego injuries (collapse) with which they attempt to cope by projecting their confusion and emotional suffering onto the belief that they have the wrong "gender".

Hey Jude said...

Well, Anon, you know a lot more about that type of man than I do. To my understanding, you are describing cross-dressers rather than the transgendered. I've seen some crazy and scary types on YouTube - they would be more what I think of as transvestites than cross-dressers. With them in mind, I can understand the concern that such people can be allowed to access women's restrooms in some places, just by putting on female attire and identifying as women, yet without needing to have even the intention or wish to transition. So, basically, fully functional adult males, dressed as their idea of women (almost invariably the sex-trade look), yet who seem also often to disdain or despise actual women. That is scary, but as they don't pass as women, being oversized and transvestite in appearance, I'd expect most of them to avoid any type of public restroom as they would draw too much attention in either. Still, I can see the objections - why create risk and discomfort by inviting in anyone who claims to identify as a woman whilst retaining everything which makes them a man, rather than create additional single occupancy restrooms which either sex can use? They are not transgender, though many have jumped on that bandwagon, finding advantages in labelling themselves such. Transvestites were never socially acceptable, but by calling themselves transgender, they find a certain respect, as transgenderism is increasingly popular. Also another cause for SJWs to embrace - they don't realise yet how they are being taken for a ride by some very fraudulent types.

When I think 'transgender', I mean transsexual. I have in mind primarily those fragile young souls who are so desperate to be the other gender that the desire occupies their whole thinking, and makes them suicidal if they are prevented from transitioning - also the teenage and twenty-somethings who have undergone hormone treatment and surgery and who you would not know were biologically not the gender they appear. I think where it is known they are transgender they are particularly vulnerable and need protection. I would not find them a threat or discomfort in a public restroom - they are not even identifiable, and they also need to pee.

Hey Jude said...

I think the definition of 'transgender' needs refining so that only those who have both the hormone treatment and surgery should be recognised as transgender, whilst those who hold onto their bits (the majority) whilst claiming to identify as the other gender should not be classed as such. These days anyone can say they, or their children, are transgender or gender fluid, and demand or expect accommmodations- yet it can mean many things, from the teen at risk of suicide, to a six year old not 'feeling' like a girl or boy on a particular day, or a little boy liking to wear a dress (remember how it used to be called dressing-up, and role-playing, before it became taken seriously,- like a boy likes to wear his sister's pink dress - once the phase would have been over by the time he outgrew the dress - now some parents are quite likely to encourage him, and buy him a new girl's wardrobe). It's worrying to see how gender confusion is being pushed at impressionable young minds. I think it's good to avoid gender stereotyping of children, but it goes too far for parents or educators to suggest that gender itself is a feeling or a choice, as children are so suggestible. For most children it would not be an issue, but in the current climate of unnecessary influences being passed off as education it is likely to become one for at least some, when otherwise it would not.

Ranting now, sorry about that - the world has gone crazy.

This has got very off topic.

Hey Jude said...

On topic, or at least back to Casey Anthony case - I was thinking, listening t more of Cindy, she might have disposed of Caylee's body rather than George, if either of them did. She would maybe have been more equipped to deal with it than him in view of some of the unpleasant tasks involved with her profession.

Mandee JP said...

Now, retired Judge Belvin Perry Jr, who presided over the trial, has said he thinks it is possible that Ms Anthony accidentally killed Caylee with chloroform, a sedative.

“The most logical thing that occurred, in my eyesight, based on everything I know about the case was that (Ms Anthony) did not intentionally kill her daughter,” Mr Perry told

Evidence presented at the trial showed how Ms Anthony had researched how to use chloroform online. A scientist also reported finding the chemical in Ms Anthony’s car, the Orlando Sentinel reported.

Mandee JP said...

“I think upon the evidence, the most logical thing that happened was that she tried to knock her daughter out by use of chloroform.” Judge Perry

Hey Jude said...

Maybe Judge Perry forgot about the duct tape.

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