Thursday, October 31, 2013

Jose Baez: Deception and Publicity

Jose Baez tripped, stumbled, and fell into the Casey Anthony verdict in spite of his lack of talent and inability to be truthful, or even to keep track of his deceptive answers.  He is now back in the news and, as before, he struggles to remember one statement to the next, giving Statement Analysis students a chance to study him again.  She didn't say a "negative thing", said Baez, of his 12 year old client.

Let's see if he is telling the truth.

 Jose Baez, the Florida attorney who is representing the 12-year-old girl accused of bullying Rebecca Sedwick, told CBS News' Crimesider his client "never said a single negative thing to Rebecca" and claims she is being "vilified" through the sheriff making his "media rounds."
"I think he is going beyond the scope of his job as a law enforcement officer. His job is to investigate and make arrests," Baez told Crimesider.
One might wonder why "make arrests" is in the vocabulary of a defense attorney in this context. 
Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd, who presided over the investigation into the case, told Crimesider last week thathe believes Baez, who famously won an acquittal for Casey Anthony, took on the Sedwick case for publicity reasons.
Baez shot down those accusations, saying, "I really don't care what Sheriff Judd has to say. I don't need publicity. This case is smaller than other cases I've handled before."

Note that he only "really" does not care, making care sensitive. 
Note the importance of what one says in the negative:  here, publicity, the lifeblood of his profession, is not needed. 
Note, interestingly enough, that this case is smaller than other "cases", in the plural, that he has handled.  Note "handled" and not "tried" nor clients represented. 
"I represent people accused of crimes as well as victims of crimes. She falls under both categories," Baez said of his 12-year-old client. "My client has been the victim of bullying in the past and she is currently being bullied by the system."
Baez's client and a 14-year-old girl were arrested Oct. 21 and charged with felony aggravated stalking of Sedwick, who authorities say climbed a tower at an abandoned concrete plant and hurled herself to her death Sept. 9. Both pleaded not guilty Friday.

Judd said that he charged the 12-year-old and 14-year-old with stalking because what they did to Sedwick went beyond bullying into harassment and intimidation.
The two girls allegedly encouraged others to fight Sedwick, and sent her electronic messages encouraging her to kill herself.
The department released Facebook chat logs of the two suspects after Rebecca's death.
Baez's client, the 12-year-old, wrote, "I feel like Rebecca's dead because of me. If only I could say I'm sorry."
Later she said, "I deserve to die. I wish it was me and not her."

Baez says he doesn't think his client should be charged with a crime and says his client "never said a single negative thing" to Rebecca. However, Sheriff Judd has publicly claimed authorities have obtained pages of Facebook conversations in which the 12-year-old admits to bullying Rebecca at school and online, according to CBS affiliate WTSP.

Here we have only a partial quote.  Baez apparently claimed that the girl did not say a single "negative thing."  Was it "said", versus "written"?  This is why complete quotes are best.  Was it not "said" but "written" to Rebecca?
Note that "never" does not mean "did not";
note the additional word "single" to add emphasis.  

Baez is familiar with linguistic gymnastics from his previous experience with Casey Anthony.  Please note that Baez did not deny having a romantic relationship with Casey Anthony.  If he was unable or unwilling to deny it, we shall not deny it for him. 

The Sheriff was not pleased and spoke out: 
"Mr. Baez, here's my message to you: Get over trying to show she didn't do something she did and start trying to help that child," Judd said in a news conference last week.
One might question the wisdom of Judd saying this in public rather than allowing it to be said in court. 
Baez told Crimesider it's unfair that his client is being blamed for someone else taking their life.
"It's very difficult. She's in a grieving process and has been grieving since she heard the news," Baez said. "It's no secret she has been extremely remorseful." Indeed, Sheriff Judd has told multiple media outlets that Baez's client and her parents have shown remorse.
Why would his client be "remorseful" if she said "nothing negative"?
Yet, the client's remorse is made sensitive by the additional word "extremely";
This is an example of Baez inability to follow thought. 
Baez says that instead of looking to blame someone for the situation, people need to learn from it.
"What I plan on doing in this case is move away from shifting the blame and actually help people learn from this experience," he said. "At the end of the day, all parties' goals are to turn this horrible tragedy into something positive."

82 comments:

Anonymous said...

isnt this the case where a child was arrested because fear of what crime she may commit in the future? the cop thought maybe she would do something like this again, so he arrested her.... for a future crime she hasnt committed.

Sus said...

I am confused. I thought Baez was representing the 14 year old who shows no remorse and continued to post about the suicide victim. The 14 year old remains in jail while the 12 year old was released, right? I need to read on this more.

john said...

"What I PLAN on doing in this case is move away from shifting the BLAME and actually help people learn from this experience," he said. "At the end of the day, all parties' goals are to turn this horrible tragedy into something positive."

"What I PLAN" = We all have plans to do things at times, whether we follow through with them is another story.

"shifting the blame" = So he does acknowledge that there is blame to be accountable for ?.

"to turn this horrible tragedy into something positive."

"Something positive." = I'm sure the parents of Rebecca Sedwick don't think like that when their daughter was bullied and felt so down and that she took her own life.

Anonymous said...

I agree John. Plans are one thing, action is another.

The fact is, both those girls did stalk and bully Rebecca relentlessly, even continuing their sick abuse after she killed herself. Now, THAT is sick!

The twelve year old does appear to sincerely regret her part in it, and for her there might be some hope that she will turn her life around now. Not so sure about the ring leader, the fourteen year old; who in fact, should be charged with the murder of Rebeccas' 'loss of will to live' or some such charge. If there isn't one, one needs to be created.

As for Baez; is he never supposed to take another controversial case? I think everyone needs to get over it; he DID win the Casey Anthony case, whether we like the outcome or not, or whether it was by hook or crook; he DID win.

SO in the final analysis, Casey was judged "not guilty", so if Casey is "not guilty", why has no one else been charged and prosecuted for killing little Caylee? Her murder is to go forever unchallenged? And why were no charges filed for the MANY lies and perjuries of George and Cindy? That in itself is a crime against Caylee and all of us, committed by our court system.

s said...

Sorry Anon,
By hook or by crook? He totally perverted justice!

sidewalk super said...

OT,
why,
in this age of school courses on, for example, race relations under a slew of different guises,
why doesn't some smart, aware school system start with "RESPECT YOUR FELLOW HUMAN" classes?
Wouldn't that be more to the point?

s said...

Win at any cost is the reason the US justice system is so screwed up.

sidewalk super said...


as far as jose, ah, well, he's a Florida lawyer, and there always needs to be the lowest point in an sample size.

ulla said...

OT-

Peter, have you seen about the case of Fred Mueller, profiled on 48 Hours, Cottonwood Creek?

Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...

I detest sleezy lawyers. There are some out there who are honest. Unfortunately, the system rewards the slimeballs.

Anonymous said...

These 12 and 14 year old bullies are not hard wired. They should be made to pay for their crimes, but most importantly, they should be removed from their dysfunctional (abusive or neglectful homes and narcissistic parents) and undergo extensive psychotherapy. RIP sweet Rebecca.

Anonymous said...

Correction to what I wrote above about the bullies...they may not be hard wired unless they're sociopaths. If that's the case, lock them up forever, so as to protect the rest of us from them.

Anonymous said...

Off topic Q: I'm confused about the use of words like, "very", "so", "really", "extremely", etc. Does the use of these words make a statement less credible? What does it mean to say, "it shows sensitivity"? It shows that the person has the need to overstate and persuade because what they're saying isn't truthful?

Anonymous said...

Anon at 9:22, I should have said "by hook, or by crook or by stupidity". The fact IS, it was the stupid JURY who rendered Casey Anthony "not guilty", not Baez.

IMO, initially BAEZ appeared to be just as shocked as everyone else was.

Anonymous said...

Baez says that instead of looking to blame someone for the situation
"shifting the blame"
no one pushed that girl off there, she jumped of her own free will. that is no one's fault but hers. can't blame someone else for it.

if we do start shifting the blame and punishing those who say mean things to others that causes them to kill themselves, then i could kill myself and almost everyone on this blog would be going to prison.
you cant be imprisoned for speaking words or causing someone to be butthurt.
"deal with it"... what ever that means.

sidewalk super said...


Anonymous, how can we bully you, we don't know your name? You could be any of the anons who post freely here, a person who does not care to dignify him/her self with an identity, an introduction?

Local anon in the Hailey Dunn case said...

I agree anon 10:22. Baez and the whole team looked shocked by the verdict of those idiot jurors.

Anonymous said...

oh great, now you are accusing me of being a turd with no dignity, that does it, im gonna jump off a building.

john said...

Anonymous said...
Off topic Q: I'm confused about the use of words like, "very", "so", "really", "extremely", etc. Does the use of these words make a statement less credible? What does it mean to say, "it shows sensitivity"? It shows that the person has the need to overstate and persuade because what they're saying isn't truthful?

November 1, 2013 at 10:12 AM

..............................

Hi Anon.

I think i have this right.

"very", "really", "extremely" Etc are qualifying words, qualifiers are words which when removed don't change the meaning of the sentence but weakens it slightly. The more qualifiers the weaker the statement becomes. They are also used to convince.

Eg. I really really really like my new car.

So because,therefore etc. We note that whenever an account has "so, since, therefore, because" in an open statement it is to be noted as sensitive since the subject is no longer simply telling us what happened, but "why" something happened. This indicates sensitivity as the subject feels the need to explain actions..

TURD^^^^^ said...

I've retired!!! Who called u a TURD???

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your response John. I appreciate it.

Anonymous said...

he he... now that right there ^ is some funny Shiite!

Jen said...

Drumroll please....

And the award, for most ironic words ever spoken by a lawyer based on his past use of trial strategy goes to.......Jose Baez, for this hilarious little gem!

"What I plan on doing in this case is move away from shifting the blame..."

rob said...

I would take a public defender, who had never won a case, before I would take Jose Biaz as an attorney. Just sayin.

Anonymous said...

I,I,I...oh good old Mr. Baez and his ego... His statement is all about his usual self-infatuation.

Jen said...

Hi Rob-

I know right, lol! Hiring Joes Baez is like saying, 'I'm guilty as sin, so I need help from a criminal lawyer (heavy emphasis on the criminal) who will lie, scheme, and do ANYTHING necessary to get me off"....

(including accusing my own father of molestation, and dumping my childs body in the woods to be ravaged by animals).

I assume anyone who hires Baez is guilty, since I joked with my husband that watching his performance at trial made me feel like I was watching 'National Lampoons presents..A Murder Trial', lol. Nobody is hiring Baez for his talent, so they must be hiring him for a Hail Mary shot at a Casey-esque verdict, imo.

No way Jose said...

Jen- I disagree about the child abuse issue in the Casey Anthony case. I think George did abuse Casey (is there any SA on this?), but I don't think it should have been used to muddy the water about who the killer was to get her off. I think it should have come in at the penalty phase as a mitigating factor. Casey Anthony is a sick woman. She needed deep psychiatric therapy BEFORE she killed Caylee. Why don't we have jails for the criminally insane?

Shelley said...

A law degree was wasted on Baez.

He is nothing more than an ambulance chaser. He is just chasing the next media case.

I am still amazed thought by the fact that anyone would become a lawyer and then jump to defend people like this kid and Casey.

How do you sleep at night?

Baez did not win a trial with Casey. There was just simply not enough of a clear cut “how she actually died” so the jury acquitted.

But had that little foxfire search “full proof suffocation” be addressed, I think we may have had a different outcome.

But then you never know.

But these girls deserve what is coming to them. They deserve to be charged. To put in the effort to harasses another person for nothing more than their own amusement is evil. PERIOD

It’s not a right of passage, it’s not just kids being kids. There is evil behind this.

And there are kids that kill every day! Some of these “missing” kids could be killed by other kids.

So I think it’s safe to say their threats were real.

It’s time this world starts to make criminals pay for what they do.


And Baez get a different job. You are a joke to the legal field!

And I just love this Sheriff.

"Mr. Baez, here's my message to you: Get over trying to show she didn't do something she did and start trying to help that child," Judd said in a news conference last week.


Wish he was there for the JonBenet Ramsey, Hailey Dunn, etc etc cases!

Anonymous said...

Casey Anthony is a psychopath. No help for that.

Jen said...

Hi No Way-

I don't believe Casey was molested by George based on her behavior prior to 'the jig being up', so to speak. She allowed Caylee to spend time with George, and she related well to him in the jailhouse tapes. She even appeared more comfortable and close with him than she did Cindy. I do believe a huge amount of dysfunction was present with Cindy, George and the whole family, and that Casey was a manipulative brat who leveraged that to her advantage.

Cindy was an obvious control freak, who was less concerned with reality than what people thought, (as evidenced by her denial of Casey's pregnancy at 6+ months) and George seemed like someone with a lack of maturity (anger, sporadic employment, gambling, inability to stand up to Cindy, etc). But regardless of whether Casey was molested or not, I absolutely do not believe that George disposed of Caylee after an 'accident'.

Anonymous said...

Starting with Dr. Keith Ablow, every psychologist, psychiatrist and licensed counselor that I've googled, researched and read their analysis and reports, referenced the greater probability that Casey Anthony was molested as a child by George Anthony.

ALL relate that Casey suffers the classic symptoms of early and ongoing child sex abuse. In fact, some went so far as to suggest the likelihood that George may have already started molesting Caylee.

Sorry to all you armchair practitioners who think you know otherwise. The training, knowledge and experience of many learned professionals dictate that you are wrong!

No Way Jose said...

Jen- Casey may be a psychopath, but I don't think so. I'd bet the farm on the fact that George sexually abused Casey and possibly Caylee was next. Casey is completely out of touch with reality (dissociative), and early and prolonged abuse will do that to a person, especially in the case of incest. Child abusers make their victims feel, "special". It's no wonder she felt "closer" to George than Cindy. Women who are abused as children are statistically more likely to fail to protect their own kids. Therefore, leaving Caylee with George was no big surprise. If Casey had been sexually abused as a kid, she would have not bonded well with Caylee and projected her own split off "bad little girl" self onto her firstborn daughter, Caylee. There was also an allegation that Casey's brother, Lee, sexually abused her as well. It's not uncommon in incest families for the brother(s) to abuse the sister(s), knowing that the Dad is as well. I read Ablow's book on Casey- he makes the case that Casey fits the profile of an abused and George an abuser. I think Casey killed Caylee and disposed of her body, not because she wanted to party and sleep with men, but because of Casey's deep subconscious issues she projected onto innocent Caylee. Ablow said Casey was psychologically suffocated and dead herself, which is what she did with Caylee's physical body. Casey may have viewed Cayled as an extension of herself. If Casey is an animal, she wasn't born that way. It would be interesting to institutionalize her and send some of the best shrinks in to work with her to see if anyone could break through to her. If it were possible, I think it would take years to accomplish. If she could ever get in touch with her true self, her own wounded child, she would be destroyed over what she did to Caylee. Maybe it's too late, and she's too sick to be reached. But it would be an interesting experiment.

Anonymous said...

I have no doubt that Casey was molested and abused by George Anthony, nor would I be surprised if he had already started molesting little Caylee. As we've all said dozens of times, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Look at George, the way he has quickly stepped back from Caylee when he is taking a walk with her as their photo is about to be taken, and in other photos where they are together but George has stepped some distance away from Caylee. He has the look of guilt and doesn't want to be associated with her up close in photos.

I hope Casey breaks and tells the detailed horrible truth about George and what he and Cindy did to her as a child, and how she may have known that he had already started molesting Caylee. They destroyed her life.

I hope she talks while George & Cindy are still alive so that they have the opportunity to squirm and deny what they did to her, which they would, knowing damned well it would be the truth. I'd like to see them hang for it; but of course, they wouldn't as there will always be many who would not believe Casey.

Families are not dysfunctional for no reason. IMO, in court videos, it was so obvious that Casey despised Cindy (and George) for a good reason that was well known to Cindy. That being, for not protecting her all those years her daddy molested and raped her while Cindy knew what he was doing to her.

Casey felt that Cindy owed her everything she took away from her, anyway she could get it. I believe that Cindy knew George was molesting Casey as a child and did nothing to stop him, possibly allowing or participating with George in Caseys' child sex abuse. Casey was severely repressed psychologically and could not have a healthy childhood at the hands of these two monsters. For years, she was at their mercy and dared not speak out. They created a monster.

Why else would Cindy continue to allow Casey to use, bully, run up debt and steal from her? Why would Cindy bail her out every time she wrote checks against her friends or her grandmothers' accounts?

Casey blackmailed Cindy for years and got away with it. The reason? She 'owed' Casey and she knew it, just as Casey knew it. Why else would Cindy & George do everything in their power to hide evidence, lie, and coddle Casey no matter what? They knew they had no choice, they had to please Casey.

At all costs, they had to perjure and protect themselves by keeping Caseys' mouth shut; even up to and concealing where they knew Caylees' body lay rotting and being devoured by wild animals, while running around the country claiming they were looking for a 'live' Caylee? Because they were afraid Casey would spill the beans on them.

Many times, actions DO speak louder than words, my friends.

Anonymous said...

My biggest eye raise about G abusing KC or not was how he responded in the beginning. IIRC, I think he danced around the topic and said a lot, but I did not hear him say he didn't do it until he was on the witness stand unless I missed somthing. I would have expected him to scream "I didn't molest KC" from the moutaintops with the very first accusation.

Anonymous said...

Very true, Anon @ 8:38!

No ma'mam (or sir), George most assuredly did not deny the allegations in a way that could be construed as reliable. Not once!

No Way Jose said...

Anonymous @ 8:18- Bingo! Everything you said- hit the nail on the head. I don't think Cindy participated in the sexual abuse, but she turned a blind eye. Women who marry men who sexually abuse their kids, were often sexually abused themselves as kids. Cindy would have projected her split off bad little girl self onto Casey, her firstborn daughter. George's abuse of Casey could have happened in the same room and even bed that Cindy was sleeping in. Cindy wouldn't wake up to Casey's abuse unless she had woken up to her own as a kid. Casey probably won't out them since she would destroy her only bond- however sick- with her family of origin. I'm disgusted with Baez for sleeping with Casey. As an abuse survivor, she would be ripe for the picking from any man. Too bad he didn't have the integrity to defend and support her without the expectations of sexual favors. He could have gone a long way in structuring a healthy relationship for her with men. Instead, he took advantage of the situation- knowing she had been abused as a kid. He ought to be horsewhipped- or at least disciplined by the state bar.

No Way Jose said...

Adding to Baez sleeping with Casey: as her attorney, he was in a position of power over her. Psychologically, she's a little kid- arrested development very young from the abuse. Basically, he slept with a little kid. As a criminal defense lawyer, he should know and understand this.

Anonymous said...

No Way Jose,
" Women who are abused as children are statistically more likely to fail to protect their own kids."
I have to disagree with you on this.

Peter did an article a while back about women who were sexually abused as children. Some do fail to protect their own. Some become overly protective. I think the latest statistics about sexually abused girls is that one out of every three are. Look around you, that's a lot of abused women.

I wish I could remember which month it was written in, so I could go back and reread. There is a lot of insight in that post. Around that same time is when "Peter" changed, and the trolls came to harass.

Anonymous said...

I agree w/you, No Way Jose at 10:02 and 10:19. Baez knew what he was doing when he sexed with Casey. It's hard knowing whether he knew at that time that Casey had been abused all those years by her father or if it was later on that he realized this; however, we also need to be realistic in our analysis of sins and discretions of the flesh.

Sex is all Casey knows in the way of distorted affection and this is what she does because she can. You must also realize that Baez spent many hours and days, even weeks, alone with Casey and her wanton fleshly wiles.

I'm not excusing him, but surely she made herself available to him in every sexual way; and considering that most men are only as strong as their second head dictates, which has no strength, it was bound to happen.

Without even having to conjole or deceive her, Baez justified taking and using what was readily and easily made available to him just as most men do.

There aren't many Josephs in this world who would run from Potifers' wife as she tore his outer garments from him!

Anonymous said...

casey was adopted

Anonymous said...

Oh? Is that so! Says who?

Even if true, why would this matter anyhow?

No Way Jose said...

Anon @ 11:17- I agree that abused women may be overprotective as well. Dr. Drew said during one of his shows last week that women who are abused statistically are less likey to protect their own. Maybe he's wrong. But that's the third time I've heard/read that.

No Way Jose said...

Anonymous at 11:25- I agree that Casey learned, probably from George, to be as seductress, and she learned this when she was very young. No doubt she perfected her wiles. That said, I think the vast majority of female criminal defendants have serious and prolonged abuse histories and are psychologically hobbled. What sort of man would take advantage of women like this (There's been other Caseys before for Baez)? A Narcissist. Someone who has the need to rescue damsels in distress. This is the worst sort of bedfellow for the abused. People in power positions should be held to higher standards than the average Joe in a bar.

Anonymous said...

My thoughts on the matter: Baez is being truthful when he claims his client "...never said a single negative thing to Rebecca"

His client said SEVERAL negative things to Rebecca...not just one!

Anonymous said...

NoWayJose @ 5:24 pm., you are living in the past, still dreaming that men are gentlemen when the reality of it is, that most are not.

Most men will take whatever is made available to them, keep moving and think no more about it. They don't give a crap about a womans' past insecurities, or whether she was abused, nor do they want to hear about her hang ups. They are focused on one goal.

What they can't take willingly, they will cleverly con and swoon over it until they finally get it. Right or wrong, it is up to the woman to look out for herself.

I don't want to be crude here, but surely you have heard that a s---- d--- has no conscience? How true this is!

Anonymous said...

I've analyzed some of the comments here and I must admit: "I'm scared!"

Lock them up forever? 12 and 14 year-old? Really?!! Remove them from their homes and undergo intensive psychotherapy? Why? Because they are acting like adults? Aren't you people doing the same?

And then..."sleeping with Casey Anthony....WTH?

Someone may need psychotherapy; perhaps not the 12/14 year olds, though.

No Way Jose said...

Anon @ 10:51- I've analyzed your comments, causing me to wonder why you align your sympathies with the perpetrators of antisocial and unethical conduct, as prescribed by criminal laws and the ABA (Florida's Ethics Rules prohibit consensual sex with a client unless the relationship was in existence before the representation began, but are vague, making enforcement difficult). If criminals lack empathy, we need to be protected from them and the harm they cause. If they can be helped to become caring, law-abiding citizens, we need to redistribute funds to build a mental health care system, aimed at rehabilitating them. People in power positions, like physicians, therapists, and attorneys need to keep their pants zipped and legs crossed during the course of a professional relationship with clients, many of whom are vulnerable for a variety of reasons, childhood sexual abuse being one of them.

Non-anon said...

Re: No Way Jose at 5:10 ---
3 is a Liar's number.
Speculate all you want, but Casey's deceit supersedes any indication of childhood sexual abuse.
Casey is a deviant in many ways, but the Abuse Excuse is not among them.

Anonymous said...

MoWayJose @ 1:14, you are trying to psycho analyze me when you are not qualified to psycho analyze me. Where's your degree and license for such a thing? You are playing mind reader and armchair psychologist.

Here's where you are wrong, I am not aligning my sympathies with the perpetrators of antisocial and unethical conduct; I am simply pointing out the simple logic and reality of the matter that you fail to comprehend; that being, that most men will (and do) have sex with any woman who makes herself available to them. Period.

Take note, I said most, not all. I did not say that this is right or wrong, although from a personal viewpoint I consider it very much wrong for a married man to practice such behavior; I simply said they will do it if given the opportunity or when they can make the opportunity.

You need to snap out of your dream world, wake up and smell the coffee if you think you can change or dictate how men view women as sex objects and frequently little more, or if you think we can charge them with bearing responsibility for every woman they have sex with. This is not the reality of life, keeping in mind that a s---- d--- has no conscience. It's as simple as that.

No Way Jose said...

Non-anon- I didn't lie when I wrote, "But that's the third time I've heard/read that."

Have you heard the saying, "don't lose the forest through/for the trees?"

I don't understand what you mean by, "deceit supercedes any indication of childhood sexual abuse"? Kids who are sexually abused are taught by their abusers to lie and lie well. By the time they're adults, they're pros.

An abuse history should be used as a mitigating factor during sentencing, but not an excuse or defense for the crime.

I think criminals who are dissociative or psychotic should live out their sentences, even life sentences, in mental hospitals for the criminally insane.

Anonymous said...

Non-anon at 3:48, the number three is not always the liars number. In NoWayJoses' post she only mentions three, but in reality there are many more than three; three was all she knew of at the time.

Furthermore, Caseys' deceit, lies and falsehoods do not supersede any indication of childhood sexual abuse. More often than not, these traits are a direct result of childhood sexual abuse. Yes she became a deviant in gross ways. You can thank her monster parents for that.

Caseys' childhood sexual abuse is the very thing that taught her to become a practiced deceitful liar and is the thing that caused her to continue this fine-tuned, highly skilled practice, and is a first symptom of childhood sexual abuse. Casey had to lie. Her entire life was a lie.

For her own survival in keeping silent to the abuse she suffered for many years, it became the only way of life she knew and lived.

You know so little about the lingering traits, life-long affects and characteristics of many grossly child-sexually abused women.

Anonymous said...

NoWayJose, I agree with your post @ 6:05.

BTW, I do agree with you that men in professional positions who are responsible to their female cleints/patients/employees (including children) should be held accountable for their sexual actions towards these women and the trust that has been placed in them.

But I am also realistic enough to know that it's never going to happen other than in cases where child abuse is involved and in the case where employee coercion was involved. As a general rule, sexual consent between two consensual adults is just that; consenting, whether we always like it or not, or regardless as to its' outcome, or whether the male conjoled the client/patient to have sex with him. They were/are consenting adults.

There could never be enough laws to police and patrol every man who has sex with every woman. You might just as well forget this silly idea and let it go.

Non-anon said...

Anon at 6:42-
Don't tell me what I know about lingering traits or the myriad of life-long Effects of abuse!
I am a survivor of molestation - I know full-well the indicators and manipulations of those of us who have lived through the suffering.
I am saying that Casey Anthony is a Master Opportunist who used the experience of a jailmate to her own advantage. (because who wouldn't believe those things about her creepy family?)
I think her lies about the abuse were very transparent.
Casey's claim of child abuse is Not Fact.

Anonymous said...

Non-Anon, again your words fall
by the wayside. When did Casey ever claim child abuse as her defense? The fact is, she didn't.

It was her atty Baez who made the (believable by many) allegations that Casey had been abused as a child; however, this was not her defense. I among many professionals believe that this is one of the few things Casey ever told the truth about.

As for you, I'd be surprised if you were ever molested, abused or raped as a child. If you had been, one would think that you would know more about its' life long affects than you do.

No Way Jose said...

Non-anon-

I'm sorry you were abused.

I was convinced by forensic psychiatrist, Keith Ablow's book and articles on Casey Anyhony. Here's an interesting article, refuting sociopathy, etc.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/19/what-casey-anthonys-psychiatry-records-tell-us-did-casey-really-kill-caylee/

Anonymous said...

Anon said....

This is not the reality of life, keeping in mind that a s---- d--- has no conscience. It's as simple as that.
November 3, 2013 at 6:03 PM
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I think No Way Jose nailed their "PSYCHO" analysis of you. This comment of yours, I quoted above, was a favorite saying of ONE of the step-fathers who molested me!

Anonymous said...

So what, anon @ 3:38 a.m. Face it; like it, lump it, accept it or reject it; it is still a simple reality of life that in many cases of everyday existence and cohabitating, that a s---- d--- has no conscience.

Once you learn to accept this sad fact of life, you will finally come to terms that you can't blame every man for deceiving you that you willingly dropped your drawers for, even when they did coerce you into having sex with them. Having accomplished their goal, this does not mean they are on a lifetime journey with you, or that they 'owe' you a commitment. You allowed it and you bear the emotional scars for what YOU did.

It is tragic but true that most women rationalize being willing participants by thinking that 'he wants me more than he wants his wife', 'I'm special' or that 'I'm the best he's ever had', believing his lies; or some such malarkey, when the bold truth is that they/she gave in and participated willingly, now they suffer remorse when they find he has moved on without you. 'Oh but he said this and he said that..' Really? It might take a few slaps in the puss before you realize it was your own fault for allowing it to happen.

I am not talking about molestation; which btw, if you were molested as a child why don't you include the word rape, if this is what occurred. I always wonder when a person says they were molested what do they mean? Do they mean they were touched and fondled in their privates, or do they mean they were forcibly penetrated by the male sex organ, which is rape? Then why don't they say so? Being molested is one thing, which in and of itself is bad enough, but being raped is quite another.

If you were in fact, molested/raped by your step-fathers, or anyone else, I am so sorry and am not undermining what happened to you in your childhood. I was speaking of adult sexual relationships only.

Anonymous said...

NoWayJose, thank you for posting the link of Dr. Keith Ablows' analysis of the child molestation and rapes of Casey Anthony by George Anthony during her childhood; and the possibility that he had already started molesting/raping little Caylee.

I believe his professional analysis. The man knows what he's talking about. He is one of the few licensed psychiatrists/psychologists who is willing to go public, clearly expressing his analysis, although there are many others who have expressed close and similar views; many more professionals than the three you have read, and none that have given opposing opinions that I've been able to find.

I had previously read these Ablow reports and others; I just hope some of the nay-sayers will at least try to comprehend and appreciate the worthiness of Ablows' professional opinion. However, I have my doubts. When you read the direct opposite viewpoints of people like Tricia and her followers on Websleuths, who were horribly and openly rude to Dr. Ablow during and after they had an open interview with him wherein they disputed, argued, belittled and denied his professional opinion as having merit;

it only serves to prove how thick headed people are when they already have a preconceived belief/opinion on a particular subject, specifically Casey Anthony, and how unwilling they are to even consider that there IS evidence and professional opinions that far outweigh their own unlearned positions.

I think we are fighting a losing battle in even trying to defend Ablows' professional opinion which was based solely on his highly educated 25-yrs of professional experience in dealing with female rape victims.

rob said...

I have never felt that GA molested casey, nor Caylee. I also thought he was the only family member who truly loved Caylee.
George was a player, who liked to have flings with full-grown women. And who could blame him, married to Cindy. But she was his financial keeper, so he had to stick with her.
Such a tangled web.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter what you "felt" Rob. Gut instincts and 'feelings' are never used for any measuring stick or authenticity and is one reason several years of training, education and expertise' are required before a therapist can claim to be accurate in their analysis in relation to any type of analysis and/or therapy, in particular child sexual molestation and rape where numerous testing methods are required and given, and that can be considered an accurate analysis.

In other words, you'd rather have Tricia over at Websleuths, who has no training, education or expertise' in the matter of child sexual abuse and the shattering of the adult female psyche; tell you that Casey Anthony, was never abused by George Anthony when she has no knowledge whatsoever in this highly sensitive issue.

Meaning that you place no value in higher education and experience, and will believe anything as long as it reinforces your "I don't feel it' theory. This tells me that you would be quite okay with your auto mechanic doing brain surgery on you because you 'feel' it's okay.

No Way Jose said...

Anon like the rest of you-

"We bond through shared adversity."

A man with a healthy psyche would not have been attracted to Casey, regardless of how sexy and seductive she was. Jose read her psych evals. He knew she was a lost soul- a kid in a woman's body. Who would be attracted to that sort of arrested development? Someone with a similar woundedness, an early childhood trauma. She's the damsel in distress, and he's the knight in shinning armour. He's likely to repeat this story throughout his life, merely switching out the leading ladies.

"We're attracted to what's familiar to us."

No Way Jose said...

Anon @ 12:38- I believe the subconscious mind drives many of our actions, including the line of work we do as well as the types of people we're attracted to.

This blog is about statement analysis but the majority of the stories are about, missing, abused, exploited, and neglected kids. Depressing stuff to most people. However, people who were traumatized as kids have empathy for and are able to put themselves in the shoes of abused kids, going beyond other people's ability to stomach depressing stories on the evening news.

I believe the subconscious mind trumps logic, reasoning, instinct and impulses.





No Way Jose said...

Casey Anthony's harshest critics are likely to come from abuse backgrounds. Why? It's horrifying to imagine oneself in the same category as a person with repressed rage, rendering her capable of killing her 3yo daughter. It's more comfortable to consider her a "monster", unrelated to the human race.

Why does a person like Casey kill, while the majority of other survivors become lifelong victims and a fortunate minority overcome the odds and thrive in life? The birth lottery. Genetics, brain chemicals, positive influences/relationships, etc.

Thank you for this stimulating discussion.

Anonymous said...

Y/W NoWayJose. You are not a stupid woman. There is no such thing as 'the birth lottery".

Further, you are 'ASSUMING' that Casey is the one who killed Caylee and not George. Are you real real REAL sure about that?

Me? Not entirely.

No Way Jose said...

Anon at 3:18-

By "birth lottery", I meant whether or not your genes predispose you to emotional lability, impulsivity, etc. and whether you were lucky to be born in a home where your primary caregiver was without her/his unresolved trauma, thus providing an opportunity for bonding, sustained eye contact, etc.; whether you were exposed to abuse, neglect, etc.; whether your family had the financial resources to seek physical and mental health care when needed, etc.

I'm a Dr. Ablow fan. I found this quote in an article about Castro, who imprisoned, raped, and tortured 3 women.

"Children are exquisitely emotionally sensitive. The seeds of major depression and panic disorder and PTSD and borderline personality disorder and, yes, antisocial (psychopathic) personality disorder are most often sown in childhood and adolescence. And while someone may be born gifted by God with a hardy brain chemistry, with serotonin and norepinephrine and dopamine aplenty, many are not, and are, therefore, even more vulnerable, from birth."

I'm not sure whether it was Casey or George who killed Caylee.

George's suicide attempt could mean he was feeling guilty, but Casey's behavior during the 30-day period, looks like she was trying to distract herself from intense emotions and reality. I think it would be more likely to trigger that behavior (dissociation) if she killed Caylee rather than George. Also, if George was the type of pedophile- the sicker variety- who saw his granddaughter as an extension of himself (some will abuse a daughter, but not a granddaughter), his motive would be to abuse her, not kill her. Casey could have been projecting her split off bad little girl self onto Caylee, which would give her motive to kill. Caylee's presence, cuteness, and advancing age may have triggered Casey's abuse and repressed rage. Also, Caylee was keeping Casey tied to that toxic home with George and Cindy as Casey was financially dependent on them.

I read some of the deposition transcripts of the docs who evaluated Casey. I couldn't do SA on them bc they were reading their notes- no direct quotes, only paraphrasing Casey's account. I found her accounts about the sexual abuser by George and Lee to be convincing, but not as much so with regard to her account that George presented the drowned Caylee to Casey. It didn't pass my smell test. Also, if Caylee drowned, why not call 911? Those kinds of accidents happen all of the time, especially in Florida. It's unlikely anyone would have gotten charged for negligence, etc.


Anonymous said...

Anonymous @November 4, 2013 at 7:41 AM

Keep talking. You are a harsh and cruel human being.

Anonymous said...

It is not harsh and cruel to face the often stark realities of events that you allowed to happen in your own life as an adult.

Once you take a look in the cold grey light of dawn at the part you played in your own disappointments and misfortunes and stop placing all the blame on the men who you feel misled you, deceived you or led you on, (and maybe they did) but take your share of the blame yourself for your willing participation; often times this is the only emotional healing you will ever have.

Anonymous said...

NoWayJose @7:17 pm., when Caylee was first reported missing 30-das later and her decomp odor was found in the trunk of the car Casey had been driving; I was convinced that Casey had driven around with that dead baby in the trunk as long as she could stand the odor, then disposed of Caylees body and abandoned the car. I still believe that, but I also believe that both George & Cindy KNEW Caylee was dead from the day or night she died.

The evening Cindy reported the decomp odor in the car they had rescued that day from the tow yard, Cindy made three calls to 911. In the first two calls she was attempting to get the Orlando PO to help her find Casey whom she said she had not heard from in the last month. Cindy had made every attempt to find Casey only to run into a blank wall. No mention was made of Caylee in those first two calls to 911.

Prior to calling the PO, Cindy had busied herself all afternoon disposing of and washing other items that reeked of decomp order, doing everything she could to hide and conceal the evidence.

Now the PO are refusing to come to her house, take a report, and help her find Casey, and THIS makes her bristle with anger, both at them and Casey. It was not until the THIRD call to 911 that Cindy mentions, "Oh, and it smells like a damn dead body has been in the car" or some such words. It was only THEN that the PO agreed to come to the house.

THIS Cindy did because she was angry with Casey for alluding and not contacting her, and her anger that the PO would not take her seriously. Had Cindy not made this final third call reporting the decomp odor, they could have gotten away forever with not reporting Caylee missing and it was only in Cindys' anger that she did; not because Caylee was missing and dead, but because Cindy was spitefully angry with Casey and now intends to fix her little ass once and for all.

Then months later when Caylees' little skeletal body was found with the duct tape on her mouth I believed that Casey had placed Caylee in the trunk alive and duct taped her mouth and nose shut so she would not make any audible noise, and 'damnit, just die'.

Cindy & George would never babysit for Casey to go out in the evenings or week-ends and this presented a constant problem for her; what to do with Caylee, and I believe Casey had stashed that baby in the car alone many times before, or left her in other abandoned places while she partied or claimed to be working and just wanted free time alone. I also believe that Cindy & George did not care what she did with Caylee, and never asked, as long as they didn't have to babysit.

I believed that this was another "Susan Smith" situation where Casey put her party life, good times and boyfriends ahead of her baby which I still believe is true, but I also came to realize there is way more to this story than Casey killing Caylee and the parents are innocent of any participation. I think they DID have knowledge, that George WAS involved, and Cindy knew.

Anonymous said...

As for George 'trying' to commit suicide to cover his guilt, deceit, OR grief; NOT. George did not try to kill himself.

George only wanted some sympathy in his poor sad 'depression'. George never intended to kill himself; whatever his decided reason for pulling this crap, it was just another cover for Georges' whiney excuses and looking for sympathy.

Anyone who wants to kill themselves, WILL. It is very easy to take ones own life without a lot of fanfare and 'oh poor pitiful me'. People who want to kill themselves shut up and quietly do it.

Non-anon said...

FYI to the pious remarks made by NoWay Jose & Anonymous about my personal abuse:
One of the "lasting affects" is to enter into a Protective mode for one's own idea of Self-preservation.
I choose to not speak the word Rape because of personal reasons pertaining to other's comprehension of the word and the situations surrounding its connotation.
I resent your assuming any level of my stages of recovery, as Survival is only one component.
I did not have a step-father, and the molestationS did not occur within my immediate family at home.
I did not comment to defend my personal story - only to remark that Casey's information to Baez was gleaned from an inmate's letter after spending nearly 4 years in jail (for an 'accidental' drowning?) and not indicated prior to her needing a plausible Defense for trial.
Many don't believe the claim - me among them.
Dr. Ablow & other experts are proficient in their analyses, but the subjects all have individual circumstances. I happen to think Casey is far better at Playing the victim than Being one.

Local anon in the Hailey Dunn Case said...

Whether or not Casey was sexually abused by George has no bearing on the case or the jury verdict. The evidence shows that Casey killed Caylee. The jury did not listen to the evidence. And further more, they were too lazy to even evaluate the charges. At a minimum aggravated manslaughter of a child becuase she did not protect the child. I agree with an earlier poster, the alledged child abuse had no bearing on the case and should only have been allowed in the sentecing phase. As another asked, if Casey is not guilty why has no-one else been charged? Is that it? End of story and investigation?

Non-anon said...

Totally agree, Local Anon -
Unfortunately the inept jury also thought they could consider Baez' Opening statements as evidence.
She also should have been convicted of Neglect or Child Abuse Resulting in Death or Abuse of a Corpse, etc., etc.
I'm sure the Trunk was the babysitter most of the time during the first 2 years of Caylee's life.

Anonymous said...

i am not gonna "retry" this casey case again. the evidence did NOT prove casey was the person that killed or caused caylee's death, nor did the evidence prove casey is the person who disposed of her body.
that is why the jury came back with the verdict they did.
there was NO proof, beyond any reasonable doubt, that casey was guilty.

Anonymous said...

Why don;t ALL OF YOU take this somewhere else! I would like to read about this current case and thoughts on the statement analysis.
kmn

Anonymous said...

"At the end of the day, all parties' goals are to turn this horrible tragedy into something positive." Appalling comment. This girl is dead and his client feels remorse. Why? No reason because she never said anything negative.
kmn

yes way jose said...

Oh, boy, Anonymous at 7:15.
Why do you suppose there was such an uproar following the verdict?
The heavy majority of the public and the media believed that there WAS enough evidence to prove her Guilt.
Most people also believe that the jury did not deliberate properly - and that was the reason for the idiotic verdict. Very few people are supportive of that non-valid verdict or the lax actions by judge Perry.

Anonymous said...

There's a major problem some may not have considered in the Casey Anthony not guilty verdict, just as it is in most trials by jury.

The judge issues pages and pages of intricate jury instructions to the jurors. These instructions require the jurors to use legal abilities they do not possess. They are required to perform a legal decision they are totally incompetent to reach and with no legal guidance.

They are not attorneys and have no legal resources for researching a specific allegation, instruction, requirement, or any case law; yet they are expected to interpret laws they have no knowledge of and walk out of the jury room having made a legal decision according to what was presented to them and according to laws they have no knowledge of and are totally confused in trying to interpret.

It becomes a toss of the dice unless there are some on the jury who are extremely strong willed in their pursuit for justice regardless of their lack of legal knowledge, and are willing to hold out for what they knew to be true from the beginning, even when they are unable to understand the jury instructions or interpret law.

I'm not excusing this dim-witted jury who decided they just wanted it over with; however, can you imagine being able to practice law and interpret laws in an hour or two when you have never studied law? This is what was expected of them and thrown in their face in the Casey Anthony trial just as it is in every other trial by jury.

When you couple their lack of ability with what they heard and believed initially during the trial, whether there was any evidence of proof or not, then mix that with issues they became confused about;

then fall back on who they liked better, the defense atty or the prosecutor; which experts they understood or believed, and which ones they didn't; it's no wonder they throw up their hands in utter confusion and settle on a verdict they are incompetent to reach.

Attorneys and judges KNOW these unknowledgeable jurors are putty in their hands and this is how they got the verdict they were looking for, fought for, and anticipated from the beginning. The attorneys hand picked the dumbest jurors they could find then played up to their dumbness; and 'may the best man win'. That was Baez.

The jury was already confused and chose the verdict easiest for them to reach based on the comingled pages of laws and instructions that were set before them; in fact, were already confused by the time they got to the jury room, and lazy, but Judge Perry KNEW this would happen and HE bears the blame for the outcome;

just as Perry bears the blame for no prosecution for their tampering with evidence and their perjuries for the many lies told by George & Cindy Anthony; as well as the many malfeasance threats Perry made against Baez yet took no action against Baez.

Jurors watch these displays of showmanship presented by attorneys and the judge and this too weighs heavily in decisions made by jurors who just want the show over with, particularly when they don't understand what they are doing in the first place!

I can see how the jurors threw up their hands and quit; but what I don't understand is why Judge Perry is still sitting on the bench and has not been disbarred for his own (many) malpractices in the Casey Anthony case.

Anonymous said...

Also, let us not forget the vast influence old-man-lawyer Cheney had in his die-hard tactics used in the Casey Anthony trial; while there he was in cahoots with Baez and displaying every trick before the jury AND Perry that he knows so well.

When did Cheney ever lose an important case? Can anyone count his lost cases on one finger? Old Cheney is a good ole boy from way back, plays his game well even while sitting in the background and dozing off, and is owed many favors by judges and other attorneys who wilt next to his carefully planned shenanigans.

Don't rule out the cunning influence Chaney had on this jury; also you can just forget it if you think he didn't have influence with Perry in not filing charges against Baez OR in his failure to prosecute the Anthonys for their many perjuries. After all, didn't the Anthonys actually help Casey in their many lies, perjuries and concealing of evidence? Yep. Sure did.

One of the few things Baez actually did right was hook up with 'father figure' hard as hell to beat, Chaney.

yes way, jose' said...

Attorneys for Both sides know that juries are incompetent and don't understand most instructions, as lamely iterated by the judge.
So, why not include some Persuasive comments as to the instructions in their Closing Statements?
A few carefully crafted comments might convince at least 1 juror to attempt a true deliberation.

Anonymous said...

Are you kidding?

Surely you jest.

There were multiple pages of instructions to the jury in the Casey Anthony case.

Anonymous said...

multiple pages of instructions does nothing for a jury who doesn't understand them.....
just saying

Anonymous said...

Nothing whatsoever, and there you have it, Anon @ 7:20 p.m., the lump sum total of the whole matter; coupled with their lack of knowledge of any area of criminal law or any other kinds of laws or penalties; in addition to their personal preference for Jose Baez who presented them with pleasantries every day; AND his 'fatherly' sidekick trickster Cheney, who constantly hugged up too and petted on Casey like a grandfather, while Baez looked smilingly into her eyes.

This stupid (beyond words) jury was a sure winner for Baez & Cheney right from the start!