Wednesday, February 20, 2013

Liars' Contempt Highlighted

Lance Armstrong has to decide whether or not to meet with USADA.  The deadline is today for him to decide. They had already extended it once for him, and have said that they will not do it again.

USADA says that Armstrong must tell them everything he knows about drug use in cycling if he wants his lifetime ban reduced.

Armstrong was cited, here, years ago, for his unreliable denials, and eventually was forced to make an admission.

His admission, on the Oprah Winfrey program, including deceptive answers and deceptive statements about his son, his involvement, his ex wife, and about taking performance enhancing drugs during his comeback tour.

He is pathological in his lying and everything he possibly states to USADA must be verified.  They should also take a summation of his answers (should he choose to meet with them) and lay out 10 questions for him to answer.

Then, they should take the same 10 questions, and polygraph him on these specific questions.

Armstrong's reaction to being called a liar is what pathological liars generally do:

Anger.

A liar from childhood holds others in contempt.  They believe, by virtue of expectation, that those they are lying to are beneath them, in the least, intellectually, which is why they have an expectation of "getting away with it" when they lie.

This pride, which often makes an appearance just prior to an embarrassing personal calamity, leads them to do and say foolish things.

It is also the number one trait to be exploited by investigators.

* A liar can, and must be, provoked into speaking.
* A liar will cause self-harm, just to answer a challenge.
*A liar will harm others to protect himself or herself.  To this end, a liar will lie, steal, cheat, perjure, and do far more harm, than most of us ever are willing to admit.

The pride and ego of a liar will sometimes even cause them to take a polygraph examination when they know they are going to be asked questions that they must lie to.

Some examples:

Justin DiPietro, father of missing toddler, Ayla Reynolds, refused to speak to media when police asked him to.

When a child goes missing and kidnapping is presumed, the first thing an innocent parent does is call out to the child.  This is echoed from a wandering child in a supermarket:  the parent calls out to the child.  It is instinctive. It is attempted to be done within hours of the report.  The urgency is critical.

When a parent refuses to do so, the parent does not want the child found.  This was seen in the case of 7 year old Isabel Celis.  Media pressure forced them to finally speak, a week later, and when they spoke, deception was indicated.



In DiPietro's case, he refused, but when the mother of Ayla, Trista Reynolds, claimed to not hear from DiPietro, his pride welled up, as he had "proof" that he was in contact with her, via text messages and quickly made a statement which, sadly, revealed that Ayla was deceased, and that she was likely in water.

Billie Jean Dunn, mother of missing 13 year old, Hailey Dunn, was involved in sexual perversion, drugs, and violence, with live in boyfriend, Shawn Adkins.  She copied a story from CNN on a murdered child, and made it her own.  Police knew she was lying and challenged her to take a polygraph examination.

Dunn knew that she would fail.

She and Adkins did the waiting game, no show, and finally showed up under the influence in an attempt to beat the machine.

When caught, she was faced with the "liar's challenge" and, sure enough, the pride caused her to go through with it, against Adkins' pleas, and both failed the polygraph. Knowing she would fail, her pride caused her to go through with it.  She spent 40 years getting away with lies, and could not stop herself.

Antiquity has some writing about Pilate that described him as a liar, mafia-type brute, who caused his rivals to disappear.  This builds up, slowly, compromise by compromise, lie by lie, for many years until the habit leaves the subject weak and vulnerable.  His young wife was "troubled" by dreams and warned Pilate not to have anything to do with the false trial of Christ.

He ceremoniously washed his hands, relieving him of nothing.

When Lance Armstrong was challenged as being deceptive, his response was not "I told the truth" (which is what honest people say), but was to feel, acutely, the sting of insult.  In his mind, like the others mentioned here, it is,

"I am above this idiot.  How dare he challenge me!"

He responded with threats, some of which, like the legal ones, he made good on, knowing that he could outspend his perceived enemy, and force them to resign.

Billie Jean Dunn did not say, "I told the truth.  I don't care if someone says I am lying, I must find Hailey!", but instead responded with threats, which included, threats of sexual violence, including "gang rape." She threatened suit knowing that in a suit, she would have to testify.  When the subject of an investigation sues, prosecutors rejoice.

DiPietro had his brother contact me with a threat of violence.  Like all bullies, he needed a reminder that I was neither a female, nor a toddler.

What would have happened if the public had said Desiree Young was lying?  Desiree is the mother of missing 7 year old, Kyron Horman, someone still very much  I think that she would not have even responded.  She cares for nothing but finding justice for her son, who's life, according to the analysis, was taken from him in an act of hateful vengeance by his former step mother, Terri Horman.

                                                              Kyron is not forgotten.



Liars don't know when to quit.  They don't know the meaning of the word "beaten."  This is what caused Charlie Rogers to issue a rambling narcissistic self-pitying video about herself on YouTube, who, no matter how many words she used, could not bring herself to say, "I told the truth" about the "attack by 3 men"  (see "Fake Hate")  here



Liars violate the "law of economy" in statement analysis where we say, "the shortest sentence is best."

Due to the sensitivity of lying and deception, they add words to their sentences whereas others, telling the truth, do not feel the need to add.

"I had nothing to do with it at any time..." is an example of adding "at any time", to the sentence.

When we see unnecessary words, we deem them "doubly important" to our analysis.

Liars got their experience in childhood where they learned to survive by their wits.  Most are products of abuse, particularly Neglect, where, as a child, the neglectful parent did not correct them.

Teachers know this well.

The neglectful parent feels acute guilt and will often seek to project the guilt upon the teacher.

"My Johnny did not lie!" Neglectful Mommy fires back to the helpless teacher who knows that Johnny's date with destiny may include prison bars.  Mommy has such guilt over her poor care of Johnny that, when given the opportunity to play the role of hero, she grabs it, proudly seeking to show the world what a great defender of her child she is!

She betrays herself.

This is why we highlight such hyperbole in statement analysis as indicative of a poor relationship.

"I'm a great mother!" is often heard from abusive and neglectful mothers, who acutely feel the sting of accusation and feel the need to boast.  Great mothers are too tired to boast.

Like the bragging Blade Runner claiming he and his girlfriend "could not" be happier, it belies the problems in the relationship between Oscar Pistorius and his victim.

18 comments:

Shelley said...

This is so very true Peter!!

I know if my son was missing, I would have no interest in your site or any website unless it was about finding my son. If someone felt I was lying, owell, ever second of my time would be about finding my child. Not trying to prove anyone else was wrong. I would not care. I would have no energy to put towards disputing the accusations.

I would not be posting pictures of myself having fun on facebook, not calling others out.

My exhistance would be finding my child. Every day, every breath...

Until his body was found and it was proved he was dead. Then my focus would become justice.

These parents, Billie, The Celis's, The Ramseys.... None of them showed this natural parental instinct.

They were worried about themselves and moving on.

What is even sadder, I am pretty sure I am more worried about finding or justice for Hailey, Isabel, Jon Benet, etc etc than even their own parents.

Just wish justice would catch up to these people.

Trigger said...

I could not bring myself to go "partying" while dressed up to attract lovers, like Billie Jean and Casey Anthony, if my child was missing.

I would be concerned about their well being, if they were scared, or home sick, or hungry, or warm, or neglected.

There is nothing from Justin supporters but focus on Justin's image and his needs.

Anonymous said...

Do you honestly believe that most liars are liars because their parents were neglectful and did not correct them? I don't believe this to be the case at all. Most of the pathological liars I know have brothers and/or sisters who are NOT liars, and were raised by the same parents.

I admit that I do not have scientific knowledge or proof of this, and I am quite sure that through neglect and abuse one could teach a child TO lie, but I don't believe that most people lie because they did not get corrected as children.

Our family has more than one pathological liar in it, and those liars were corrected more than any other children because they lied more than other children. Trying to correct a pathological liar doesn't help much.```````````````

Peter Hyatt said...

Yes, I "honestly" believe that most liars are the product of parental neglect and I have a reason why I believe this.

All children lie.

Parents correct, or they Neglect or fail to correct them.

Layla said...

My sister is a liar and Peter is right on about the liar does have complete contempt for others and thinking "I will have no problem getting other people to believe my lies". Sadly, oftentimes, they are right in that they fool many for many many years.
Where did they learn this from? My sister learned it from being attached to my mother's apron strings, and, in her words "studying every move my mother made". Well guess what? My mother is a liar and everything Peter says about liars is true about her. She puts up a facade that she is "a woman without sin" and lies to and gaslights others (through mentally cruel lies). She absolutely believes she is much smarter than everyone and that there will be no problem lying to everyone--if I call her on it she just tells people I am a liar.
When my sister shoplifted as a kid, she denied it to my parents and told them "the guy working in the store planted it on me, so he could accuse me of shoplifting". My parents believed her. I remember overhearing the conversation and thinking "my parents must be so stupid to believe that and also thinking how in the heck did she even come up with that lie that the guy planted it on her?"
The one thing Peter could have added is that normal people, when backed into a corner, will not just naturally and effortlessly come up with another lie. Lying is a "skill" that some people are vety good at. in my experience, it is because they had a good liar to learn from--their parent.

Anonymous said...

i think it is by choice, and i don't think beating a kid will make any difference at all what choice they make when it comes to lying. a liar does not think they will be caught lying, so choosing punishment over telling the truth does not exist in their world. jmo

Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous,

how is it that you think that all siblings must be pathological liars in order to support parental neglect.

Even casual interviews of grown siblings can reveal almost unrecognizable parents, one to another.

To one, a father is loving and nurturing, while a sibling may claim abuse...with each being truthful.

Habitual liars are those who fabricate reality for their own gain.

Peter

Peter Hyatt said...

Where does "beating a kid" enter the equation?

I said "correct" and "correction."

Children lie by nature. Some are taught it is wrong and that they should consider the feelings of others.

Some are not.

Those who feel that all must subjugate themselves and their needs before one's own, don't care what their lies do to others, which is one of the reasons they react with such anger when caught: how dare someone call them on their lies!

Parents are to deal with the natural narcissism within children by helping them have manners, which are an outward way of showing respect to others.

In today's self-pleasing, self-esteem on steroids, some kids are made to believe that the world revolves around them.

They are forever unhappy because the most important person in the world will let them down.

Those who seek to help others, and live in this manner, are the most content.

We used to call them "gentlemen" and "ladies." Now we call them "odd."

Peter

Layla said...

Well, if I can put in my 2 cents: I was taught by my father that lying was a terrible thing, and I also was not inclined towards lying. I had a life outside my house and always had the ability to make friends and spend time at their houses, so my world was a lot bigger than my family.
My sister was a very fearful person afraid to even play and clung to my mother and learned, in her fearfulness, to be conniving.
Parents treat their kids differently. I would not have been believed if I had shoplifed and lied about it. But my sister was believed although her lie was unbelievable. Parents who have personality disorders have "splitting" where one child is "bad" but another is "good" and "an angel" so they believe anything they say. The irony is that this "all good" child is often the one who has perfected the art of deceiving the parent--they have more insight into the personality disordered parent and have figured out how to "deceive" the parent so the parent continues thinking they are "all good". The black sheep usually has less insight into the parent's disordered and dishonest character and in any case does not go about being dishonest/deceptive to please the parent.

Anonymous said...

I think a statement made by Blades that is telling and Armstrong-esque though nothing has been made of it was how he said in contemptuous, lordly manner how he did not have to answer to the charges, but he would 'deal' with them anyway as if he was being annoyed by a small child who accused him of something trivial. As if he is above the law and all scrutiny and by projecting that he doesn't have to answer he implies that others will agree with him on this fact, yet he will deign to do so for the media.

Amaleen6 said...

People will lie for as long as it pays off, and because they get away with it at least part of the time, it's a behavior that is extremely resistant to extinction. So, you may not be able to fool all the people all of the time, but for a liar, fooling some of the people some of the time is a good batting average.

Jen said...

Speaking of contemptible liars...Jodi Arias is putting the Anthony's to shame on the witness stand! She can remember EVERY senseless and unimportant detail about EVERY second of the last 14 years of her life (including that she ate an omelet with her ex the morning she left on her 'tour de murder') ...but not the heinous crime she committed against the love of her life, where she stabbed him 29x, nearly decapitated him and shot him in the face! I feel sorry for the jury...it must be so frustrating to be stuck there listening to her lies. The prosecutor is going to destroy her on cross....she can barely keep her story straight with her defense attorney helping her.

BostonLady said...

I am losing hope that the liars will ever be made to face justice. It seems these cases are dragging on and no one is arrested. Instead, there is Billie Dunn on another blog talk radio show lying about what happened to Hailey and she is praised by her few supporters. It's sickening. When will there be justice for Hailey? It's been over 2 years.

Isabel Celis's parents ask people to pray, not look for Isabel, just pray. Do I believe in the power of prayer, yes I do. But asking people to pray instead of physically looking is trying to appear as if they care for Isabel. They know she is not going to be found.

I'm losing hope for true justice for these missing children.

veruca said...

Oh no doubt.
My sister may have been raised in a whole different household. Her mental issues and then drug use just honed her skills at lying. She made outlandish accusations even about male family member's and the preist that married me. Years later she says he raped her before my wedding. Which was impossible and said for attention or sympathy. Yet she will make outside friends believe her stories.

I think it can be how they are raised and my parents ignored her stories that weren't too bad ..wrote them off or they didn't know about the big ones she had others believing.

Anita said...

Peter I read the comment on an earlier post about the difference between a compulsive liar and a pathological liar. I have also seen topics like this on the Internet. Do you draw a distinction between the two? Also, can a liar ever be rehabilitated?

Hobnob said...

It's sad when we can look at their statements and pretty much know exactly what their next responses and actions will be

Shelley said...

Layla.. Ur mother sounds exactly like my mother. She has finally pushed it so that I no longer speak to her. Along with every other family member. Her boyfriend finally left after he had enough (and of course her lies that we were not speaking cause I had done a horrible thing to her).

She then rather than face her problem, told everyone he maxed out her credit cards and left her penniless. I found bank statements, credit card statements etc. all lies. Yet when i confronted her (not giving away my proof) she sent emails stating "proof was attached" never was, then started her ex was abusive and into child porn, etc etc etc...

She still stands by her lies, that she "hates liars with a passion" and that everyone else is the problem, her dad was the same.

I had to be aware everyday that was not who I wanted to be and as an adult, I am the opposite and teach (not beat like that comment earlier) him to be honest. And I make sure of I make a mistake, even as "the parent" to sit my son down, tell him mommy made a mistake and is sorry.

People need to learn to not repeat the negative parental traits. Just like with abuse, stop the cycle.

I get the cycle exhists, but people have brains, can think, feel, etc. just stop or get help if u can't.

Don't do the horrible things ur parents did to your kids. There is no excuse..


Anonymous said...

I agree that big liars are very arrogant. They feel they are smarter and far more clever than those around them. This is fed by getting away with lie after lie. Practice makes perfect and they know it. The trail to a true liar starts with arrogance.