Sunday, November 29, 2015

Reasons Why Davey Blackburn Was Not Involved in The Murder of Amanda

Statistics of murdered pregnant women show that the husband/boyfriend is the most likely suspect.  Familiar homicide investigations begin with family and move outward in suspects as each family member is cleared.

Fox News reported this normal suspicion but also added that the victim's husband's initial written statement was narcissistic which surprised them, given the circumstances.  Jeanine Shapiro said that it was all about the husband and his career.  To this, Statement Analysis agreed.

Police announced that the lone gunman who caused Amanda Blackburn's arrest as well as two others associated with it, who were in the area, robbing other homes, though there has been no reported violence in any other home than Blackburn's.

I have asked experienced investigators, analysts and professionals what they could say to help support the premise that Davey Blackburn has no association with those who killed his wife.

I  asked the same of the public, with readers to submit reasons why they could or should believe that the husband has no connection to the killers.  


I.  That Which Suggests Guilty Association with gang

II.  That Which Suggests No Association with gang

By putting one in proximity to the other, it allows for easy to comparison.  In either case, police investigation will be lengthy to learn the truth.

I.  Guilty Association

1.  Coincidence
2.  Language
3.  Lack of Denial


II.  No Guilty Association

1.  Police:  no arrests, nor announcements
2.  Religion examined. 

I.  Guilt Association


1.  The coincidental nature of the case:

The pastor described having a bad marriage made worse by pregnancy.  His pregnant wife was killed. This, alone, has led some detectives to say, "What are the odds?"

The victim said that bad marriage was due to his career focus.  His initial statement showed that his career took precedence and even warned potential future pastors that wives can "slingshot" a pastor to success or hinder the career.  His wife competed for his attention with his career.

Two days before she was killed, he used a gun on stage where he was video taped using it as a prop. She was killed by a gun.

Personality:  his mentor said that something was "wrong" with him.  The husband said that in junior year of high school he "told a lie" which caused an entire school to be disappointed in him; teachers, administrators, and coaches.  This one "lie" caused his friends to pull from him, even, leaving him utterly alone.  His next school year was in a new school in a new state suggesting that this one "lie" caused his family to move to another state and his father to leave his own career work.

That something is "wrong" is further evidenced in his video performances, obsession with sex, projection of his own sex drive, and the insult and humiliation of his wife, who failed to satisfy him sexually.  That these are all public statements, alone, suggests that his mentor was correct, but his language shows a distinct "anti-social" and "narcissistic" tone.

The murder took place while he was at the gym, a place where he said he experienced sexual temptation.  In spite of knowing that there were break ins, the door was unlocked and in his call to his best friend, he stayed outside the house for 40 minutes, on the phone, while his wife lay bleeding out.

2.  Language

Statement Analysis:  Guilty language evidenced.

This was seen in the extreme distancing language, including the pronoun "we" where only "I" is indicated.  Parents of young children even recognize this factor where a person 'hides' his guilt in a crowd of others.

Language:

He showed no fear of the killer for himself, his son, or his neighbors.
He did not mention his unborn son but used the death to advertise for his career, repeatedly.
He did not say he loved Amanda, nor that Amanda loved him.
His language about capturing the killer was weak;
His language minimized the murder into "event" and "circumstances" and not murder.
The distancing was extreme:  "the family was devastated", and "we will dialog with Weston"
The language of advertising was incessant, from slogans used, to "Amanda's Story", all while the killer remained at large.


3.  Denial

Blackburn was asked to deny involvement, but did not issue a denial. 

When publicly confronted with the accusation, he did not deny involvement, but only said, "For us, we have nothing to hide."

In Statement Analysis, when one says, "I have nothing to hide" instead of "I didn't do it", it is an invitation to "look for that which has been hidden."

By using "we", and affirming it with "us", he indicated that he is hiding something and it is with the assistance of at least one other person.

a.  He accepted that police had to suspect him;
b.  He did not deny the allegation
c.  He used the language of guilt with "for us, we have nothing to hide."

Question:  Then how is it that he could not have done it?

II.   No Guilty Association 

1.  Police

Police have only arrested the shooter and two associates and have not publicly connected him to the gang members.

This is the sole answer I have received in support of the theory of no association:  that it has yet to be found.  

Each theory as to why the language indicated guilt or distance, presented did not explain the lack of human grief, or the lack of fear of the unknown killer, or how, in the face of such tragedy, he could focus so precisely upon advertising, to the point of quoting numbers. 

For many, it came back to, "but what about the odds?" 

In seeking to explore the case, I sought, within myself, as well as detectives, analysts, and other experts to find something to buttress the theory that the husband could not possibly be involved. This includes ever meeting the gang members, or those who, in organized crime (gang) were above the actual arrested members.

With all those I have consulted, none were able to come up with a reason to clear him other than "thus far" police have not linked him.  Cold case detectives regularly deal in cases where guilty suspects have been cleared in the initial investigation.  It is an element of cold case work that is difficult, but a norm.

Readers,  too failed to come up with anything either.

Therefore, we ask:  

Does the subject's own religion make him less likely to have involvement?

 Religion

The husband could not be the killer because, as Fox News said, he is "a man of God."  

This would mean that his religious beliefs would restrain any temptation greatly.  This resistance to crime would be seen in:

1.  Devout:  A close adherence to the tenants of religion, with no known compromising, twisting,  or negating for the purpose of personal gain. Since Christianity teaches "thou shalt not", is he devout in his beliefs, making it a powerful influence away from crime, or does he display a cavalier attitude in which any tenant or aspect of the faith be changed to suit his priorities, thus weakening the overall influencing effect?

2.  Background:  A strong history void of troubling behavior or any indications that one has any form of psychological indicator of trouble. 

A peaceful non-trauma background with no history of psychological disturbance, combined with devout adherence to truth would serve as 'buffers' or influences away from criminal behavior. 

Therefore, he could not be associated because of his strong belief, refusing to alter the beliefs, and a stable upbringing  with no hint of psychological disturbance. 

Even in the presence of both of these elements, one can still commit serious crime, but these two would be considered things one would have to 'overcome' to commit such a crime. 

Therefore, if he is known to 'twist' or negate Scripture, and if he has some signals of serious disturbance in childhood, "Religion" would not be considered a good 'reason' to support the "no association" theory. 

There are two things that weaken this defense:
1.  His pragmatic view of religion 
2.  His background story of "the lie" 

This means that he is free to be "unconventional" in his approach to Scripture.  (This is not the genuine disagreements that people have; but an actual twisting in order to fulfill  priority).

What does his language tell us about:

a.  His priorities
b.  His marriage
c.  Murder

His language shows what he defines "success" as being numbers in attendance and is similar to the language of his mentor.  This is a pragmatic or "unconventional" view and his statement of "doing whatever it takes" is evident in the videos.  The videos, themselves, suggest one who is not 'restrained' by traditional, historical Christianity, and likely need no further explanation.  


*Pragmatic view of Scripture found within his drive for numerical success.  This is also evidenced in the language of his mentor:

They say "whatever it takes" and they both have a willingness to depart from historic creeds and norms of Christianity for the purpose of popularity and numerical increase.  

For those unfamiliar with the evangelical world, it means a willingness to "reinterpret" or simply ignore entirely any teaching or practice of the church which will not lead to numerical success.


In this sense, Blackburn's own message about wives of ministers impact on the career, as well as his own wife's  statement about considering leaving him because he was only about his career now will focus on a belief that is not likely to lead to success:

Divorce.

The evangelical church seeks marriage counseling from those in successful marriages and a divorce (Amanda's desire to leave him) would have derailed his career terribly.  His career, according to his language, is his supreme passion.  

In his high school "lie" story, we are told that his whole world came crashing down from  just one lie; leaving the reader to guess what telling of a single lie could cause such impact, from his own teachers to school faculty to his family to his own peers, to possibly having a forced relocation of his entire family to another city and another school.

Actions cause trouble, but a single lie?  Even a false accusation of another would be something school officials would not likely be devastated over unless the lie was an action that...

devastated lives within the school.

If others were devastated, he affords them no sympathy in his post, but was concerned about one thing and one thing only:

His reputation.  This was his concern.  

What one lie could be so horrific to wreck his reputation?
What one lie could be of such a nature as to not only have adults turn from him, but peers?

I do not know, but can only guess.  

It is rare to consider something that would unite both groups while it is easy to think of something that would upset adults, but teens would rally around, or, that would upset the teens, yet the adults would be more like, "you did the right thing, son", even if his friends felt betrayed. 

What is so strange about this is that the lie cost him his friends.  Most male 17 year olds have gotten in some trouble and are very unlikely to abandon a friend unless he betrayed a friend, or lied about something even worse.  Betraying a friend might cost friends, but not teachers, faculty, coaches and parents.  

It would have to be something that is an affront to everyone, including teenaged boys.  Teens are quite forgiving of each other, often consoling each other with, "yeah, I almost did the same thing..." empathy or, "the adults don't understand." 

About the worst possible scenario I have come up with would be a false allegation of sexual abuse against a male teacher with himself as the victim.

This, if shown to be a lie, would be something that would disgust the community at large, and even disgust teenaged boys and cause them to pull away from their friend.  It is not just a "lie" but an attempted indictment of an utter disgusting nature that even after rescinded, will leave observers wary of he of whom the accusation was aimed.

This is something that would unite adults and teens in disgust.  

Beyond that, all the bad things teens do are well known to schools and churches who generally work to help the offender, rather than pull away from him.  In his post looking back, he wrote that he never felt so "utterly alone", which means others did not reach out to fix whatever he had done.


If the career is an obsession so powerful that even a murder is seen only in how it will bring in more customers, what would a divorce have done to one so deeply obsessed with success?

Could a twisted mind obsessed on numbers success who is already shown a willingness to 'change' or twist Scripture to fit his career, so conceive of a way of being free from Amanda without a divorce?

Was this something his mentor saw in him that alarmed him enough to say that he was not 'right'?

The high school story is alarming, but so is taking out a gun as a prop, two days before your wife is murdered; a wife of whom you openly stated was in a bad marriage along with the unborn child, who also had the open statement of how bad pregnancy made marriage.  So is the public statements about his sex drive, and the victim's inadequacies, and so much else that he has done "in the name of religion" that has caused Christians to recoil in discomfort, embarrassment and disgust.  

The high school lie story showed a distinct lack of empathy for its victims.  

Then, marriage could make or break his career, something so important to him that it trumped even his wife's murder, within his language.  

Now, divorce, the career ender, is no longer a possibility.

How lucky is that?


When one's own wife is brutally murdered and the killer on the loose and the husband shows no fear but can quote the exact number of new customers you can masquerade it any way you wish but the truth remains:

priority was and is just as Fox News said.

  This masquerading of guilt in religious language is not something that goes over well with both police, who have, in many cases, "heard it all", as well as those who see the priority and drive for success for what it is.

Don't think for a minute that they are not saying to themselves, 

"nobody is this lucky."


That his son is left bereft of his own mother is highlighted that "we" will "dialog" with him?  

Did the father of the child say this, or a child psychologist hired by the family?

When it was said that "the family is devastated", was this the husband of the victim speaking , 

or did a counselor hired by the family say it?

There is but one point that suggests that Blackburn is not connected to this murder and this is the fact that police have not found a connection...yet.  

Everything else says contrary:

His language, his behavior and even his pragmatic religious language fails to convince otherwise.

Police have a lengthy investigation ahead of them and they are dealing with a man who is very talented, in possession of a  strong intellect and who has a tremendous drive to succeed in life, at all costs. Did it cost Amanda her life, or is this all one big coincidence?

That he lacks human empathy was initially evidenced in his statement issued publicly, and then in his videos, his quest for numbers, and even in the high school "lie" account, where any possible grasp of the pain he inflicted upon others is absent replaced instead by his concern over his reputation.

When Amanda was murdered, he was incapable of saying "I love Amanda" and "Amanda loved me", and even in the subsequent corrected statements with "complete social introduction" and the mentioning of the unborn child, he still could not refrain ambition.

To have your wife murdered, in her own home, and her clothes torn off her would terrify anyone unless you knew the killer would not return for you, your son, or your neighbors

This can be masqueraded with religious language but it will be a masquerade that is noted. 

As his mentor properly sensed, there is something very wrong with him and if there is no association, he has done is best to make it appear that there is.

This is to conclude that neither religion nor upbringing would support the theory of no connection. 

Thus far, we have only that police have yet to announce an association on one side and a detailed list of coincidental circumstances on the other.  

Which is it?

*The robbery in the area does not explain the bizarre reaction and language. 

Question:  Would mental illness be so acute that one would have:

a.  distancing language 
b.  indicators of guilt
c.  no fear of the killer

yet still retain such powerful ambition as to make everything associated with this murder into a selling point?

There continues to be unanswered questions.  





394 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 394 of 394
rob said...

This 'worship as a weapon', Resonate church, was really posted on youtube ONE WEEK AGO? Are you kidding me?

Rella said...

On the tshirt campaign page, it says "You can see more of Amanda's story and how she has impacted more lives than she could ever have known at NothingIsWasted.net". However, if you click the nothingiswasted link, you are redirected to the Resonate Church website.

Anonymous said...

Do you live in the real world or a bubble? I went to the video expecting someone holding a gun to someone's head and porn by the way you described it and it's a freakin nerf gun and a teenage girl holding her phone. I didn't see anything wrong with that video. I highly doubt Davey was prepping for a murder by having a kid shooting a nerf gun at his sibling. Please don't come see the nerf weapons in my home!

Traci Mosby said...

I was wondering the same thing. I would absolutely love to hear the call made!

mom2many said...

Here is my attempt at an explanation that might account for Davey's odd reaction to Amanda's murder:

What if Davey blames Amanda herself for her death? Amanda was pregnant. It is common in pregnancy to need much more sleep than usual. Perhaps her usual, pre-pregnancy routine was to walk Davey to the door and kiss him good-bye, then lock the door herself. Perhaps she had pushed her morning devotions until later in the morning, and this was a point of contention between them, with Davey passive-aggressively deciding to not lock the door himself. In this way, Davey believes she brought this "attack" upon herself. If she had properly submitted to her husband, in his mind, this would not have happened. Proving the point, the house next door was locked up and the gangsters left them alone.

"For us, we have nothing to hide," in my theory would reference he and Amanda both. What is hidden, is that they argued about her breaking her devotional/walk Davey out/lock up routine, and fatal consequences resulted.

I believe this would align with Davey's narcissistic behavior including his lack of emotion. He probably also blames her for leaving him now as a single parent. A good mother would not have done that. Lastly, he may also be disgusted that she 'allowed' herself to seemingly be sexually assaulted, his virginal bride that had only been with him alone.

What do you think? Would this scenario provide sufficient cause for his unexpected statements though he is unconnected to the actual perpetrators of the murder?

Anonymous said...

Where on the shirt does it say anything about Amanda Grace? It looks like a heart over Indianapolis. I would never know what this shirt meant if I saw it on the street. What am I missing?

lynda said...

ABB - great post to FFlower..I agree

The only reason I said that Amanda might have been fleeing down the stairs and shot in back was the bullet had a downward trajectory, and it was found buried at bottom of stairwell. I would guess that she definitely had her arm up with the bullet traveling to her bicep. It did not go thru her forearm, it traveled up (we would need to know if it was anterior or posterior entry wound tho and I don't think we do) Keep in mind the PCA does not have to give ALL the info away, just enough to have judge sign it. I really don't think in the PC they would go thru all the blood spatter evidence, etc.

To the person that keeps saying that they will not release the 911 because it is an active investigation...that's not true. They can release it if they want. They do it all the time. Deorr comes to mind (they released within 24 hours) as do numerous others.

I think they are not releasing the 911 because it would turn the public completely against him because his lack of emotion and his NOT WANTING THE POLICE THERE would bring public outrage. Gee, then he couldn't get a fair trial could he? So hopefully that's why LE is not releasing, so as not to "taint" the jury pool. One can hope.

Anonymous said...

Look at the lies they are telling themselves in order to rationalize his "joy" in the face of his wife's brutal murder. (Replying to T shirt post from cousin).

I have a feeling DB has been able to hid hia behavior behind religion for a long time. And probably the longer he went the more he got away with. I wouldn't doubt this murder could be the result of years of escalating behaviors everyone wrote off as God inspired.

Amy Smith said...

DB made this video as a youth pastor at Newspring Church 7 years ago. https://vimeo.com/2345174?ref=tw-share

Amy Smith said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Another post by Steve Wilson (family friend? Newspring member?) from the Justice for Amanda facebook page in regards to why only Amanda's debit card was taken.
https://www.facebook.com/Jutice4AmandaBlackburn/posts/1656638601283270


"She had plenty of credit cards but only one bank card. Credit cards you need ID to get cash, debit card you don't when you use it as a credit card. Any more questions"

sherry said...

@ Amy and M - Then she probably was turning to run. DB made statements that Weston would not be a basketball player because he and Amanda did not give him height genes. So she probably was trying to run, was hit, knocked to the ground and then shot in the head. She must have been absolutely terrified.

RE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder - My husband has NPD. It was only diagnosed last winter, but suddenly everything fell into place from years past. Most people with NPD are incredibly charming to outsiders. To the poster who wondered why others who have had dealings with Davey didn't come forward and talk about his bad behavior - they probably never saw bad behavior. Unless Amanda confided in them (which she probably did not), they would have only ever seen the "great guy" personality. It is the people at home who see the other side. They are the ones who get the silent treatment when you've disappointed them. They are the ones who suffer from the NPD's episodes.

I now know what I'm dealing with, so I can live with it. I simply don't allow his behavior to affect me anymore. I have stopped enabling him. I doubt Amanda had reached that point of deciding whether or not she could continue to live with him.

When I told my friends that my husband had NPD and some of the things I had dealt with over the years, they were shocked and said they always thought we had the perfect marriage. It looked that way from the outside.

An interesting statistic regarding NPD - A large percentage of people with NPD end up divorced because the other person cannot handle living with them anymore. It is hard living with a true narcissist and most people cannot. I would not be surprised if Amanda decided she could no longer live with him.

Anonymous said...

To Fractal Flower -

Thank you for your insightful posts and for sharing. I found them to be very interesting.

A compelling reason why DB could appear to be guilty via his speech patterns and his verbiage, but not be involved.

I'm still leaning very heavily toward his involvement based on the myriad coincidences that surround Amanda's murder. "Who can be that lucky?" is the catchphrase that haunts me - and my answer is - not by happenstance.

-gilly

Peter Hyatt said...

Amy,

Thank you for answering my question via the cousin's posting.

He pulled the plug fast and he pulled the switch on marketing fast too.

It is difficult to keep a level of disgust at bay.

Peter

sherry said...

@ Amy - Wow about the cousin's post regarding Davey and the shirts. Just wow ...

Mdkd6262 said...

Amy -

I am having trouble pulling up the video you reference as made 7 years ago... what is it entitled, etc ? Need more info...

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

O.k.,thinking through how much time Taylor was at the home compared to how much time he was at the first residence. Why didn't he take more, if the motive was money? The argument could be made that Amanda interrupted him and it because robbery, assault, and a hostage situation. True, except that it leaves at least 25 minutes before Larry Taylor's is on camera walking east on Sunmeadow Way (.2 of mile). It doesn't take 25 minutes to walk that distance. So what was he doing? Just smoking a Swisher Sweet? They're there for money or items to fence for money. Too "messed up" to remember, but not to take an early morning casual stroll that didn't raise enough alarm to elicit 911 calls. Yet, he only took the Macbook Pro and a bank debit? Not even the TV off the wall right next to that decorative ladder in the livingroom? *shaking head side-to-side puzzled*

Peter Hyatt said...

sherry said...
@ Amy - Wow about the cousin's post regarding Davey and the shirts. Just wow ...
November 30, 2015 at 1:56 PM



This should not be the reaction; yet, it is.

I think that if an arrest is issued, we will be both shocked and then shocked that we are shocked....

I think the crass commercialism is so out of place that even if this family was financially broke and utterly uneducated we would still say, "wow!"

That they are "middle class", (not in dire need) and educated (vocabulary) is shocking but add in religious?

We saw a negligent mother raise money for a funeral and hijack it for a car and were 'shocked' yet we knew: she did not have money for a car.

These people all think the same.

Had I arrived and met with "how are YOU doing?" I would have thought, "poor guy is trying to hold up by caring for other) but if the same man said, "Can you get on the blower and order t shirts?" I would have said,

"Hey, should we catch the killer first? Should you be armed? We gotta protect Weston!" I wanna kill the thugs who did this..." and so on.

Peter

Concerned said...

So they sold t-shirts at Amanda's funeral? Hence, the rush to have them on Sunday?
I've been involved with non-profits for decades, have seen the deaths of many participants and leaders and never once did selling t-shirts at the funerals even come up for discussion.
We are dealing with a rare bread of self-promoters.
But we knew that.

Anonymous said...

Someone above commented "There were at least 2 negative reviews of Resonate Church on their facebook page from months ago. One was complaining about inappropriate advertising. Those reviews are gone. In fact now his reviews are all perfect scores all negativity erased. "

-Possibly the people felt like they wanted to let it go in the light of the horror of Amanda's murder.

Or, possibly Resonate pressured them or Google to remove them, along the lines of Beaverton Grace Bible Church (story here http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton/index.ssf/2012/07/beaverton_grace_bible_church_l.html ) Given Perry Noble's history, it wouldn't surprise me.

Confused said...

I have a question: If you were the one thief who stayed behind while your 2 buddies went to the ATM machine with a PIN that had allegedly been given to them under duress by Amanda, and knowing that perhaps she may have lied and given the wrong number or being under duress gotten confused and given the wrong number, and that maybe your buddies would be calling to say she had given the wrong number, so anyway, you're there with her knowing you may need more information about the PIN:

Would the first thing you do knowing you may need to get more info about PIN from her be to punch her in the mouth so hard that you knock her tooth out (potentially breaking her jaw so that she would not be able to speak?) This wouldn't be likely. Wait, you say. the thief could get her to write down the PIN number after he broke her jaw: Nope, wrong again, because he quickly shoots her in the arm.

I think that there is reason to believe DB killed her and that these thugs were told to go there to do a "clean-up" and get rid of body, and they chickened out. I think that they were told by DB to take her debit card and that he had given them the PIN number, this was their form of payment, he probabaly lied about how much was in there (this explain them getting and saving the balance on the ATM receipt. This explains why they stole the bedsheets and car from the previous house...I think DB had hired them to get rid of the body.

Anonymous said...

That explanation for debit vs credit card makes zero sense to me. My CC numbers have been somehow stolen repeatedly (it's a thing: they think RFID) and they usually get away with a quick 500 before any company puts a fraud alert on. Once it was a 1,000 washer that was in the process of deliver by the time I saw it!!! And this last time was gas and tractor supply store that got through for 500 but dollar general got denied then card number cut off by company.

Anonymous said...

Of what importance was it to tell law enforcement he watched her bleed out? Because, she was still alive, she was still breathing. Was it to horrify law enforcement/the public? He bent her over and shot her in the head, meaning the gun was pointed directly at her head, correct? Then pleads not guilty? This was a hit. Maybe it wasn't ordered by Davey Blackburn, maybe it goes a lot higher than Davey, but Davey dug his own grave and continues to do so.

Anonymous said...

Or Resonate could of removed/deleted the comments themselves.

Lis said...

Good points on Kenneth Wagner statement, Sus. You picked up on some things I missed.
Question- is he more concerned with giving Davey an alibi or extricating himself from the debacle?

Anonymous said...



There are many videos of DB and AB on vimeo when they were youth group leaders at the SC church.

Amy Smith said...

The video I mentioned that he did as a youth pastor with Amanda at Newspring is titled "Impossible Girl week 3" https://vimeo.com/2345174?ref=tw-share

There are teenage girls, presumably from Newspring, talking on camera in the video as well.

couple of DB statements in the video:

"You are screaming I am a whore with the way you dress."

"If you're sleeping with someone before you're married, you're a prostitute."

rosy said...

One obscene quality of the T-shirt is that it is an dark grey in color. From the train station video and the Affidavit, One sees that Amanda had begun to dress in grey, from light grey fleece hoodie down to grey underpants. This was not her usual color scheme, however. Photos show her looking lovely in shades of blue and other colors. To make a memorial T-shirt, shapeless, in hideous dark grey, with a hideous map of Indiana on it and hideous grey heart is shocking. To print her initials in the corner as if she herself designed this monstrosity makes it all the more shocking. Shred these T-shirts, please. Not even Goodwill.

Confused said...

Anon @ 2:15,

I'm not sure if you were responding to me, but I beg to differ. The thieves who stole your credit cards got away with taking $500 before getting cut off. It does make sense for the thugs in this case for them to take the debit card over the credit card IF they had been told that there was a large amount in the bank account, therefore it would be a "sure thing". They could grab all the cash, let's say that he said there was $5,000 or $10,000 in there--once they have the cash they can spend undetected. You can't trace cash. With the credit cards they would get cut off and there would be a trail.

Anonymous said...

No one knows the cause of personality disorder, there must be multiple causes, including genetic ones. But this discussion reminds me of a question I have had.

In some conservative Christian groups, there is a big emphasis on "breaking the will" of infants. Infants are spanked, pinched, or purposely ignored when they cry, because crying in need is seen as the infant's "sin nature" at work.

It seems like, to me, trying to "break the will" of an infant would be more likely to break their bond of trust, which a person needs in order to be able to love and develop conscience. I would think it could profoundly damage personality development. I'm beginning to wonder if it has something to do with all the socio/psychopaths in the church.

I don't know how DB was raised, I'm not implying this happened to him. I just felt like this subject has application here and I want more people to know about this and know how wrong and destructive it is.

Anonymous said...

Peter, wondering if you have looked into the Blackburn's neighbor, Ryan McConnell? There is a great deal of coverage on this guy and for some reason, the local press continued to go back to that neighborhood repeatedly to get interviews with the neighbors, specifically with Ryan. Typically they will get a few interviews with neighbor's after a murder, but this case seems to be covered so much more, especially focusing on Ryan McConnell who is heavy, heavy on the gaydar. He gives repeated interviews and really seems to repeat Davey's words. I believe he even went so far as to repeat what Davey said about making something beautiful out of all of this. The guy gives me the heebeejeebee's and I always wondered why they kept giving him so much air time.

Anonymous said...

Peter,
Kenneth Wagner posted a twitter to DB immediately after they talked from 7:30 am until 8:20 am. It said, "Love my weekly convos with @daveyblackburn! So refreshing to have a true friend to do life with."

Kenneth KNEW DB needed him to post a description of the phone call (call it an alibi) not because he thinks his best friend is shady, but because Amy Smith discovered that he was the person on the phone with DB. Amy IMMEDIATELY began to bully Kenneth using her personal twitter account. Since he (Kenneth) was being attacked, he had to know his friend DB was going to be severely attacked.

Even after Kenneth blocked Amy, she continues to bully him by hashtagging his name in comments (that everyone on Earth can read) implying he's lying/complicit in Amanda's murder.

Anonymous said...

Anon 02:38 you may be onto something. A news reporter was invited to the fundraiser flag football game that was raising money for Davey and Weston, and there are reports of Davey having a lot of local media as friends on his FB page. Add all of that with the terrible and sometimes inaccurate reporting done by the Indy media concerning the case and it adds just another odd piece to this puzzle.

Rella said...

Amy Smith wouldn't have know that Kenneth was on the phone with DB before he posted that tweet. There is no way she could have.

buddy said...

anon 2:38

ryan is the leader of the neighborhood association and thus the unofficial public point of contact ... also, 'maybe' he's privy to more info than any of you? Yes, he is.

Anonymous said...

Most banks have a 250.00 limit on ATM withdrawals. I had to go sign special papers at mine to up the amount to 500.00. I know of zero banks that will let a debit card with pin take out say 750 ++ and the reason specifically (what my bank told me) is to keep you the customer safe at ATMs.

They would have done better with a credit card buying things they can sell easily like TVs and electronics etc.

I was responding to the person who posted on justice seekers

rosy said...

Amy Smith said...
at 2:28 pm

Yes, he got off on slut-shaming didn't he? He got off on having Amanda report to him on these "broken" young women. He was Amanda's control.

I notice their conversation was in a public place, fast food or coffee shop. Any promise of strict confidentially Amanda gave those young women was flouted.

DB in this video takes visible vicarious pleasure in listening to Amanda talk about her clients. As you point out, he calls young women who dress outside church code "whores." He's fascinated and turned on by slut-shaming. The drift of his code is that young women who dress outside the church code are asking to be raped and abused.

Amanda's role in this is troubling.

DB's prurient religiosity is archetypal. Angelo in "Measure in for Measure" and e in Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter" come to mind.

Anonymous said...

Of course he's in the know, he lives there. I was asking Peter to have a look at his creepy comments and his weird body language. Yes, I was.

rosy said...


at 2:50 PM
*Arthur Dimmesdale in Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter"

Anonymous said...

Anon at 2:50
If you're talking about Buddy being in the know, he doesn't live there any more according to his own words.
He's been posting since the discussion started here about the Blackburn case though, teasing that he had inside information.
He doesn't.

Anonymous said...

as far as child rearing philosophies, DB was shown in one of his myriad photos with a copy of Baby Wise, a very controversial program that requires babies stick to a rigid sleeping and feeding schedule. Think of it as the polar opposite of Attachment Parenting.


http://www.ezzo.info/resources/timeline/81-timeline/107-babywise-advice-linked-to-dehydration-failure-to-thrive



Canada

Anonymous said...

I'm guessing Anon 2:38 doesn't understand how Twitter works. Kenneth Wagner himself posted on the morning of Nov 10 that he enjoyed doing life with Davey. Unless Amy was on the call with the two of them, there is no way she could have found out before the morning hours of 11-10 before Kenneth posted it. Twitter will also automatically fill in @whoever if you are responding to a person or a tweet where someone else did @kennethwagner

Short point: you are wrong. Twitter can be confusing. If someone is harassed on Twitter they can block the person or delete their account

Anonymous said...

Rella,
Amy found the tweet that Kenneth posted to DB on the morning of Nov 10th after Kenneth and DB talked on the phone. That's how Amy knew Kenneth was the person on the phone with DB from 7:30 am-8:20 am.

buddy said...

...and yet every one of my dispatches has been proven correct. Gee, wonder why lol

Anonymous said...

Kenneth's tweet said:
It said, "Love my weekly convos with @daveyblackburn! So refreshing to have a true friend to do life with."

M said...

Why do you stay here, Buddy?

Rella said...

Yes. In the post I commented on, it is saying that the reason Kenneth posted that tweet was "not because he thinks his best friend is shady, but because "Amy Smith discovered thay he was the person on the phone with DB". Amy Smith wouldn't have known that at the time of the tweet.

Rella said...

Amy Smith is not the reason Kenneth tweeted that he loved his weekly convos with Davey.

Sus said...

Buddy has been on this blog since Amanda was killed. He made clear how he knows what he shares with us. He has not misrepresented himself. I appreciate his contributions.

I am sorry to hear that Amanda was sexually assaulted, but it doesn't surprise me.

The way her body and clothing was found suggests it.
The CI has stared they were drinking and high.
Taylor has a past charge of exposing himself. The specific charges were driving around a store parking lot showing his genitals to women.

Buddy, do you think there will be further arrests? I'm looking at Alonzo Bull as at least directing the burglaries, possibly being in the SUV picking up stolen goods, or even one of the burglars entering the home.

Amy Smith said...

I had never heard of Kenneth Wagner. He preemptively blocked me.
@watchkeep: Preemptively blocked by a Davey friend, the one that tweeted about their "doing life" call on day of the murder https://t.co/pfoQe3qdwV

Anonymous said...

Another strange coincidence. DB's church is located within blocks of where LT was arrested for public indecency.

M said...

Sus - I gave that same info, but didn't tease it out like Buddy. It's just childish.

C said...

I enjoy the statement analysis and some of the opinions, but I find a bit over the top some of the posters who post as if they actually know as fact what took place and what was said inside the house during the burglary and murder. Also, they seems so sure that a burglar would never do this or do or would do this or that. Watch the news people. People kill each other over ten bucks sometimes. There is NO manual.

I don't know if Davey is or is not involved, but at this point, on this site, he is damned if he does or damned if he doesn't no matter what he does. First, people were complaining at no mention of Weston. Now they are complaining he posted a photo of Weston on twitter and find that wrong. If you look at his twitter account he has posted many photos of Weston in the past. This latest photo in my opinion is a very sweet tribute to Amanda Grace since Weston is holding an ornament with her name on it. It may not have been Davey's idea to even take the photo. It appears to be a family gathering. I seen nothing wrong with him posting the photo of his son. With that said, I, too, find his behavior unusual. But he could be in denial or in a dissociative state at the moment, where you experience something as if it is happening on a movie screen. We don't know what he does in private, whether he cries or is happy or sad. We only see the public Davey.

He may be guilty or he may be innocent. What he is not is a robot. Individuals are individuals. Even dogs are individuals and do not all behave alike, even though some on this blog have a cookie cutter personality for the dog also. I have had dogs all my life. None of them have behaved identical. One would eat you alive if you tried to come in the house. Some would just bark a little. Some would lick you to death as you walked in. I have a dog now that will open an eye if someone knocks on the door and go right back to sleep. I tend to view behavior through my own experiences and probably most people related to others based on what they have experienced themselves in a given situation. All of our experiences are different. Please consider sticking to more facts and possible theories relating to guilt or innocence. I find this case fascinating. Some of the nastier, unrelated personal unsubstantiated attacks on Davey and his friends, not so much.

mom2many said...

Canada,
Can you post a link to the photo of DB and BabyWise? I had postulated a theory in the chat about possible arguments between Davey and Amanda over Growing Kids God's Way, the christian program the Ezzo's developed. The sleeping schedule tipped me off, but I had not found proof the Blackburn's were familiar with the program. If Amanda were to disagree with Davey's desire to use that program, it would be a good explanation for his lack of approval in her mothering. The Ezzo's materials are quite antagonistic toward opposing philosophies.

Here is a description from a review of BabyWise: In Babywise, for example, mothers who do not follow the Ezzo method are described as being "in bondage" to the child, ignorant of the child's needs, and lacking common sense; these mothers are warned to be at greater risk for fatigue, anxiety, emotional lability, post-partum depression, metabolic disturbances, a suffering marriage and the propensity for child abuse. Their children are described as more likely to be insecure, psychologically and emotionally fragile, crying and demanding. Suggested adverse outcomes for the child include a higher rate of eating disorders (including obesity), sleep related problems, learning disabilities, and even infant death.

http://www.ezzo.info/Articles/neo_evangelizing1.htm

I took the Ezzo program in my church when my second child was young. It was disturbing and I remember being instructed to avoid materials by the Sears and other attachment advocates.

To bring it back to the Blackburn's, I have seen pictures of Weston in a structured baby carrier, so someone in the family did not buy into Ezzo 100%.

buddy said...

Yes mr. alonzo sounds like one of society's real darlings.
I don't know if there will be more arrests but hope springs eternal.

Anonymous said...

I think the post about Amy bullying Kenneth Wagner is referring to this statement by Wagner, not his "love my weekly convos" tweet:

"Tuesday I was sitting at lunch and I received a call that rocked my world forever. David had walked in and found his wife in the condition that she was in. And what you need to know about this story is that me and Davey would speak every Tuesday morning from 7–8. Davey had gotten off the phone with me, finished our conversation and walked in and found Amanda."

Anonymous said...

Go back to the post @ 2:38 and read s l o w l y , Rella.

Kenneth isn't complicit in Amanda's murder. Read through his tweets (unless you're blocked for bullying him).

Sus said...

What info? I don't understand. Please explain.

Anonymous said...

I have also considered that he may be is a diassociative state and IF he is, he is unable to care for himself and his child and he needs to be inpatient at a mental health facility in order to receive treatment.

Anonymous said...

I found Kenneth Wagner's twitter account because YOUR account pointed him out on Twitter to everyone, Amy. Then you started sending him messages implying he was lying and complicit.

Amy deleted all her twitter posts earlier than the middle of Nov.

Anonymous said...

When I was a single mother with 3 children, I was working at a check cashing center as a manager and often worked alone. It was in the hood and white female, 5'3 in a store that held a lot of cash made me an easy target. I went in one morning at 7 am and as I put my foot out of the car, there was a gun to my temple and he told me You know what I am here for so get the F out of the car and get in there. Don't try anything stupid because I will kill you."

The issue was that there was a mantrap that set of the silent alarm in between the doors from the lobby to the back. If it had more than two feet on it, it set off the silent alarm which also triggered a lock on the safe. Of course being alone in the back with a gunman, it was not good news for me. On top of that, there was a sign on the glass that said " Yo are under video surveillance" but the issue was that it was a scare tactic, and there was no video tape. He pistol whipped me several times because I wouldn't tell him "where the tape was" even though I told him several times that there wasn't one. He also hit me several times when I glanced at his face or when I begged him to not kill me becasue I have 3 young children. ME reminding him tha I had children seemed to make him angry. Maybe it was the guilt.

He was on a walky talky with two other men on the lookout. After being in there with me 13 minutes and the phone ringing with my manager asking about the alarm, he finally freaked out and made me count to 100 after stealing my purse and running out across the street while the police lowly walked up to the building. It was pretty traumatic becauee my life flashed before my eyes.

Donna said...

The cousin with the Indy/AB t-shirts - is this the cousin with the yoga tweet disaster from the other day?

Anonymous said...

Looks like now they are trying to get The Justice for Amanda Blackburn facebook page taken down. Sounds awfully similar to the things pajama pages wrote about his experience.

https://www.facebook.com/Jutice4AmandaBlackburn/posts/1657051024575361

Justice Seekers - The murder of Amanda Blackburn This family friend also wrote me a private message to the page inbox, threatening to have this page closed down because we use Amanda's photos without the consent of family.
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Anonymous said...

Donna,

No they are two different cousins. This is a guy named Benjamin.

Anonymous said...

You know, this isn't the forum for Twitter police. Maybe you should go find that forum and post there. I do not wish to see any more posts from you about Twitter. Complain to Twitter. Thank you.

Sus said...

Several things I can't seem to shake:

• The "he is one lucky husband" factor. I can explain away his language and behavior post-murder because of his NPD.

• That Alonzo Bull actually fits the description LE gave out and the released stills better than Taylor.
• That calls went to Bull's phone all morning, and someone from Bull's phone called Taylor" family "and wanted Watson and Gordan to go back for him.
• That Taylor left Bull's home that morning, wearing Bull!s identifiable jacket, that the gun was found under Bull's wife's bed.
• That Bull, his wife, and the CI are so cooperative in painting Taylor as the loose cannon who, at 18 years old, is not in their Kilt gang, yet that morning was running the show.

• Kenneth Wagner's tweets and statements are not ringing true to me. I don't think he's an alibi for the murder, however. Just a gut feeling. Maybe who Davey was really talking to. Possibly after KW.

Anonymous said...

Are the videos now removed from Resonate website? I just looked under "Listen and Read" and the only videos there are "Watch Life Changing Stories". Where are the other videos such as Heart Songs?

-gilly

Anonymous said...

Cousin Benjamin is not going way out on a limb with this batch of T-shirts. It's obviously an on-demand order and the shirts won't be delivered until the program ends as per their promotional #Let'sSellAmandaForAllShe'sWorth message.

Amy Smith said...

You lie. I've deleted no tweets. My account is @watchkeep.

Amy Smith said...

Is that you @marynotmartha2u?

joni said...

Anonymous who doesn't understand Twitter,

8:18 AM - 10 Nov 2015
@kennethwagner
Love my weekly convos with @daveyblackburn! So refreshing to have a true friend to do life with.

Look at the time stamp.
Kenneth's tweet was made immediately after he got off the phone with Davey Blackburn at 8:18am. Please stop insinuating that anybody on this board made him make that tweet after the murder. Nobody even knew a murder had taken place at this point.

BB said...

Resonate Church logo includes a target.

Chad J. said...

Found this August 10th Tweet cross-posted on his Facebook page....sounds like Pastor Davey has never read Matthew 6:2-4 --->

****************************************************************
Davey Blackburn
August 10 · Twitter

Just paid for someone's food in the driver hey at ‪#‎JimmyJohns‬ . . . I love blessing people randomly! ‪#‎ForIndy
**************************************************************************************

"Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly. -- Matthew 6:2-4 [NKJV]

Rella said...

I read the post slowly and quickly. No matter the speed at which I read it with, it still says the same thing.
I have never said anyone was complicit in Amanda's murder. I pointed out incorrect info.

Concerned said...

Andrew at 3:45
I refer you to the Scott Peterson and Drew Peterson cases.
Scott was a squeaky clean fertilizer salesman with no criminal history and today he sits on death row.
Drew was a long-time cop who managed to kill 2 wives. He got away with the last one but when she disappeared, they reopened the "drowning in a dry bathtub" case of the other one and now is in prison 'til he's very old.

There's a new fine citizen in jail in Tennessee this week. I forgot his name but he was an upstanding attorney who first tried to poison his wife's toothpaste, then tried to hire a hitman who turned out to be an undercover cop. So LE arrested him and he tried to hire another guy in jail to murder her when he was released. Upstanding attorney filed an Alford Plea and will now be in jail for 30 years minimum.

Oh, and the guy in the Detroit suburbs who was the President of the Rotary Club. Promised an old car for a mentally ill guy to bash his wife's head in on the garage floor. In jail for life now.

There are many more.
Sometimes guys who want their wives dead lose all good sense and don't necessarily think it through perfectly. Smart cops are looking at all the inconsistencies, the coincidences, the downright pathetic behavior of DB and justice will come. Someone will talk and Davey will keep spilling marbles.

Rella said...

It's possible, but that isn't what it said. "If they cannot say it, we are not allowed to say it for them".

Horse Chestnut said...

Dialog with him? I interrupt this comment to shove my finger down my throat. This bastard can't even refer to his BABY without using business terminology. Yes, Davey, why don't you "action that"? We here at SA ask you to spearhead that initiative, okay?
Because, as we all know, when one 'dialogues' about important issues, the key demographic IS usually babies.

Gotta reach them babies.

Stupid SOB.

Rella said...

Thank you for this. Maybe the person who made the accusation will understand this better!

Anonymous said...

Horse Chestnut at 4:09,
A little levity will get us through this!

Anonymous said...

Andrew at 3:45
Davey has been part of the mentor's "church" for some time, a group who uses intimidation to silence critics.
Google Pajama Pages.
More than a few have compared that group to Scientology and you've certainly seen what happens when someone criticizes one of their own.

Anonymous said...

Andrew, there is no way for you to know if there is forensic evidence/no forensic evidence or solid alibi, etc. If he isnt arrested in the next 2-3 months then I'll believe he isn't involved. For all you know, LE has been up in his cloud finding out everything he has been doing and researching, I doubt LE would tell us if they were.

I go back and forth whether he did it or not but I lean toward thinking he is involved somehow.

Lisa21222 said...

I wonder if Child Protective Services will want to evaluate his suitability as a parent, given his utter lack of emotional connection to his family. It seems that he should have some sort of parenting intervention, with regular home visits, lest he again benefit by coincidence from a tragic death of someone who is putting a damper on his new single lifestyle.

Anonymous said...

My theory on what happened at the house is that they demand money/valuables and Amanda has little to offer so she gives them a debit card and offers the PIN or they beat/threaten her to give up the PIN. One leave to see that the card works while the other stays back in case she did not give the correct PIN.

Anonymous said...

Amanda was NOT in the wrong place at the wrong time!!! She was in her home. The Intruders were in the Wrong Place at that time........

M said...

I'm in the 'suspended disbelief' category. It sure seems like 'no one is that lucky', but I have a hard time wrapping my head around a husband allowing his wife to be raped.

I just don't know if I believe he had something to do with it or is simply glad she is gone.

Carnival Barker said...


Another post by Steve Wilson (family friend? Newspring member?) from the Justice for Amanda facebook page in regards to why only Amanda's debit card was taken.
https://www.facebook.com/Jutice4AmandaBlackburn/posts/1656638601283270


"She had plenty of credit cards but only one bank card. Credit cards you need ID to get cash, debit card you don't when you use it as a credit card. Any more questions"

*********


I have a question, I have a question, Mr. Wilson!!! Why are you talking about credit cards when the Affidavit of Probable Cause states very clearly that Colleen Clark "reviewed the recovered BANK CARDS."

Nice try.

Anonymous said...

IF Amanda's family suspects him, I imagine in public and to DB's face they are portraying a sweet, loving and protecting family. Behind the scenes, they would be contacting LE and explaining their thoughts and points of view. You leave out the most important victim here and that is Weston, who is 100% under DB's power and authority.

Why would her family say anything to anyone other than LE until he is arrested? They would be endangering Weston's life.

They would be proceeding very cautiously right now with the guided help of professionals.

M said...

and I would add that it was DB's statement that caused me to suspect him

Anonymous said...

I only listened to a few minutes of it, but in AB's dad's sermon this weekend, he seemed to be solidly backing DB.

Anonymous said...

http://www.christianpost.com/news/davey-blackburn-indiana-pastor-talking-college-roommate-wife-amanda-lay-dying-150934/

Concerned said...

Andrew,
I question why you are not content to just leave this blog and its commentators behind.
Ideas and yes, some unusual accusations are bounced around here on this very public blog.
Some people here are not mentally well. (Maybe none of us are!)
But we have a voice on a case that troubles us more than it seems to trouble the husband of a dead woman.

Some, though not all of your comments seek to ridicule and make people feel less intelligent.
You'll notice that there are others here who ridicule more blatantly, attempting to shut down those suspicious of DB by name- calling. Their language would indicate they are followers of the mentor. They also get to have a voice.

At first, I didn't think you wished to shut down others but my mind is changing.
You don't have to agree with Peter and certainly not all the commentators here but if you will go back and read Peter's Statement Analysis through the years, you will find that he never outs someone as guilty before SA reveals it. He vows to apologize and stop doing analysis if he ever declares guilt and the accused proves to be innocent.

So, Andrew, I would stick around and enjoy learning a process that can help with discerning the lies of people in your life or, if it annoys you too much, follow a different blog. I've done that with a few blogs that have rubbed me the wrong way.

Either way, have a good day, friend!

Anonymous said...

Lis 2:16:

Good points on Kenneth Wagner statement, Sus. You picked up on some things I missed.
Question- is he more concerned with giving Davey an alibi or extricating himself from the debacle?

-----

I would be concerned about obstruction of justice. Davey says he was in the car talking. Maybe he was in the house watching Amanda bleed while on the phone. False alibi??? The memorial statements by Kenneth bother me.

Bobcat

Anonymous said...

Joni,
You misread my post. Amy found Kenneth's tweet to DB by reading DB's twitter page. Then her bullying started. Most of her pre-Nov 15th tweets haven't been removed as I previously posted. I apologize for posting that statement. Twitter wouldn't scroll for me making it appear she had deleted tweets before mid-Nov. You can still see some of her harassing tweets to Amanda's grieving friends: KWagner, DSchendel, CSmith, JBrown, and DB’s father.

Anonymous said...

The debacle Kenneth wanted to extract himself from was twitter bullying.

Anonymous said...

Peter,

Thank you for elaborating re: Mentor and Kenneth.

Thank you for this blog! I am a big fan of your work.

Bobcat

Concerned said...

Peter,
The mentor had more than a "feeling" that something was very wrong with Davey. If you read about the vetting process for Interns at the mother church, you will find that the "deciders" reviewed the online comments of applicants. DB was most likely proud of those blogs and included them in his online application.

FYI, the mother "church" now has a "college" instead of the past internships, so these young people pay $2000 per year for non-accredited degrees instead of serving paid internships. They are informed that grunt work (chair-moving, etc) is included in their requirements.

Anonymous said...

I don't have time to watch this, but thought some of you might be interested.

https://vimeo.com/discoverfirst

It's Elkhart Baptist Church service from yesterday 11/29.

CJ said...

I am working to transcribe Perry Noble's address from the celebration for Amanda.

Part One (starts at 31:46, see video here:
http://resonateindianapolis.com/amanda/

On behalf of Davey and Amanda and his family I would like to thank you for taking some time out of a Sunday afternoon not to attend the funeral but to attend the celebration of someone’s life. So–, some people have funerals and some people have celebrations and in the 28 years that Amanda was with us she gave us a lot to celebrate, would you agree?

I want to thank those who are tuning in online and watching on Resonate church’s website . Um, I want to thank this church, Trader Point Church, for being just an unbelievable accommodating host and the way that the big C church has came together and has rallied around Davey and his family and supported them has been just a snapshot of what the body of Christ can be like when we decide to work together and rally around one man and his name is Jesus.

I uh I first met Davey when he attended college. He attended Southern Wesleyan University which is close to the church where I pastor. And uh it was “Crazy Davey”, that’s kinda’ how I, um, referred to him in my mind, I don’t know if that’s proper or not but tha–, I have to remember people in certain ways, so he’s Crazy Davey, and um he came up to me one day and said, “would it be possible for you and I to, to go to lunch some time? I’ve got some friends, and they want to talk about starting a church. And um I took them to a, to a restaurant called Ryan’s, I’m not, do y’all have Ryan’s up here, Davey? It’s where I took starving college students who I wanted to impress but I didn’t have to spend a lot of money.

And they were highly impressed with me, and um, and we, we ate, I think they, uh, ate lunch and dinner, we tried to circle it around a time when we could have two meals ‘cuz they were college students, and Davey and his friends, they asked lots and lots and lots and lots of questions and they left and, um, I remember thinkin’ about Davey, (I don’t think I’ve ever told you this), um, I remember thinking about Davey, um, s–, something’s not right with that boy. I know I’m supposed to say nice things but I, I like said something’s not right. I thought it might be because he was an Alabama fan, um, and we still haven’t got that worked out, so there’s a matter of prayer that we’re going to have to take to the Lord, but I was like, something’s not right.

Anonymous said...

oh gag. I did listen to the last few minutes. Davey. Shut. Up.

Concerned said...

Andrew said,
"I strenuously object to your statement that my comments are seeking to ridicule people."

I'm glad to hear that you didn't intend to ridicule people.
But you have to admit, a reliable denial would have been, "I did not ridicule people", well, except for you repeating my language.

Ha! See how much fun this is?!

"Can't we all be friends?" Rodney King
and me.

Re: the bitter end
I hope the bitter end comes sooner rather than later because I am spending way more time here than I can afford!

CJ said...

Perry Noble's address, Part Two:

He uh, he graduated from college and I had a staff member approach me and said, um “there’s a guy named Davey Blackburn that we need to consider hiring on our staff.” I was like “Who?” He said, “Davey Blackburn, (unintelligible) those, he said “Crazy Davy”. And I was like, “Oh, we could hire Crazy Davy? Umm, okay. Maybe, I don’t know. And um, I, I didn’t know because there wasn’t, there was something just not quite right about him and I was just, I don’t know what this is, and so we went through some interviews and he passed and, um, I found out he was engaged. And one of the things I love to do is, as the pastor when we’re interviewing people, I love to meet the interviewee and, and their spouse, because, um if somebody joins your organization, that’s great, but if they bring crazy into the organization then they bring crazy to work with them every day. And so, we just try to identify crazy right from the start.

And um and I was like, “Davey, I want to meet your fiancée, and, um, that will kinda’ be the final interview.” And he said “Okay.” And I never will forget where I was, I never will forget the first time I saw Amanda, and they walked in and I said, that thing that’s, hasn’t been quite right with Davey just got made right once she walked in the room. She truly was the person that completed him and made him a better man. And the thing I, the way I’ve described Davey and Amanda the past several days, is when Davey and Amanda walked into a room, you knew who Davy was, right away because he’s magnetic, he’s charismatic, he has that personality, and you would recognize Davey but you would remember Amanda when they left.

‘Cause Davey was working the crowd and he was saying “hey” and he was giving high fives and handshakes and hugs (like he should do) and Amanda was getting phone numbers and prayer requests and giving people her number and saying, “you call me if you ever need–,” and Amanda was the kind of person that would sit and let you talk about you for thirty minutes and smile and nod the entire time. They made an incredible team. And they wer– served on our ministry staff for four years and it was unreal the ministry effectiveness they had.

But then, they called me one day and said, uh we need, we need to chat. And so um we stepped up from Ryan’s to the Cheesecake Factory, because, because that’s how we roll. And, uh, we, we actually sat in the Cheesecake Factory in Atlanta and you and Amanda sat across from me and they said “We, we gotta’ go to Indianapolis, we gotta’ go start this church. We gotta’ go start this church.”

And uh, I knew it was true, you ju–, you guys had just lost Peyton Manning, you all were in desparate need in Indianapolis, you were hurting (chuckle) and um, I’m like, God, they need healing, and so, Davey — it was so funny, I never will forget — Davey and Amanda sat their, and they, they logged, we, we all cried, and and they were like, we’re gonna’ go do this, and um I heard them both articulate with, wi–, we want to see Jesus make a difference in Indianapolis. And um, so our church, uh we, we sponsored ‘em and supported em, and um we celebrated that night but I knew, I knew I knew that they were going to come up here and they were gonna’ make a difference.

CJ said...

Perry Noble's address, Part Three:

And uh, and so I’ve got to watch that. For the past three years I’ve got to sit in the stands and watch them work together for Christ to, to make a difference. And it’s been remarkable, the birth of, Weston, of, uh 15 months ago was amazing ‘cuz I’m like, Davey, um, Davey’s the kind of guy that I didn’t like when I was in school ‘cuz he’s beautiful. He’s a beautiful man, and if you’re a man you know exactly what I’m talking about. Like he walks in the room and he’s an athlete, and he’s chiseled, and he’s got that smile, and that little dimple thing and, he’s beautiful. And then Amanda wa–, was beautiful, right? She was beautiful, she was stunning, when she walked into a room you had to pause and notice, and I’m like, two beautiful people are gonna’ have a baby and this baby is going to be beautiful. And so of course they started posting pictures, and I’m like, yup, it’s a beautiful kid. Beautiful kid. Beautiful mom, beautiful dad, beautiful kid, and we got this, we just celebrated with them, they got to come to, um our our summer youth camp this summer, and it was amazing. Everything was great.

And Tuesday, this Tuesday, this past Tuesday, I got a text. And it said pray for, pray for Amanda and pray for Davey, because Davey just found Amanda on the floor and she’s got a head wound. And this is how it’s communicated to me, she’s got a head wound, and, um, they’ve rushed her to the hospital. And for me, in the world that I live in, I’m just gonna’ let you know, I thought, maybe she’s climbed up on the kitchen cabinet and she’s tried to get something and she fell and hit her head, um, and that’s serious, and we need to pray. And I went into a meeting and I stepped out an hour later and somebody said something about a gunshot and I said no no no no no this isn’t a gunshot, this is um, she probably fell in the kitchen, and they had to kind of take me to the side and sit me down and say no no, no no no no no, it’s a, it’s a home invasion, and Amanda has been killed.

Sus said...

Peter,
What do you make of his friend having the wrong sequence? They got off the phone and then ended their conversation.

Anonymous said...

Kenneth needs to accept that he is a key player in a murder investigation. I feel for the guy, but he is in the middle of it. The attention probably doesn't feel good. He needs to hang in there.

Bingo3 said...

Amy Smith, were the shirts sold at the funeral? Or given out? I find it so baffling because they say nothing about Amanda but are only promoting the church?? SMH

Anonymous said...

I guess these bro pastors think fhe guys are the studs and women are the crazy ones, so the fact that Amanda wasn't crazy caused him to overlook the fact that Davey was apparently raging crazy.

Louise K said...

The entire reason all of us are here debating Davey Blackburn even though we've been told he is "100% innocent" is because

None of us buy it.

Statement analysis, gut, instinct, whatever

This guy is deeply disturbing

His reaction to his wife and unborn baby's deaths also were deeply disturbing

In fact he has highlighted this sort of weird gun wielding sex having tattoo bearing kind of religious fervor that is both highly inappropriate and manic at best.

If he had a couch he'd be jumping on it.

He gives every appearance of enjoying the Hell out of Amanda's death (see: grinning like a loon on GMA) and milking it into a Bigger Congregation (see: Nothing Wasted) which in turn means, bigger income.

Which of course is what Jesus wants. Not hardly.

Defending DB at this point boils down to:

Does he have a manic disorder? If yes, there's a slight chance he's uninvolved. If no (and other evidence implies he doesn't) then SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG.

Grief is the hardest emotion to fake. See: grinning on teev

He doesn't even bother to try.

Anonymous said...

Andrew, re your post @5:35; You know I like you too, very much, and have total respect for your opinions and your Christian Catholic background. Yes, I do think of your Roman Catholic background as being Christian; after all, they do believe in and follow the teaching of Jesus. That makes them Christian.

Please know, I'm not trying to pick you or disagree with you; I felt the same way, and still do to some extent, concerning those who are so adamantly sure in accusing John & Patsy Ramsey in the death of little Jon Benet, when to me, it still doesn't add up. But that's another story for yet another day, as Peter does come back to this sad case rather frequently.

I'm still waiting, however, for him to 'show me the beef'. This does not mean that I am not open to his statement analysis and his experiences in guilty knowledge of them as I am certainly willing to listen and consider. Believe me, I have suffered some wild and evil accusations from some (not Peter) for even questioning their guilt; however, I say to those, until you develop x-ray eyes, prove it to me.

Please accept my apology if I in any way offended you; you have been more than kind to me. As to those issues you stipulated, there actually are statements and videos that define every one of them, all in Davy's and/or Amanda's own words and are authenticated. No, I have not listened to most of them as I do not like to hear any blasphemy or twisting of God's Holy Word which some of these do, them not being in line with the Word of God; or the teachings of Jesus being butchered when He clearly warned us how to live and not to live; warning us not to look to the right or to the left. Just their changing of the commandments warns us not to go there.

I am already firmly set on my beliefs after my long and hard struggle to seek knowledge of and find the truth; I am at peace in knowing the way, and I don't want too nor will I listen to those who seek to blindly mislead us. So no, I have not viewed or heard all these links and videos, but they're out there having already been authenticated by others here if you're interested.

Just don't rule out the possibility that Davey IS guilty in some way concerning Amanda's murder, that's all, as there are many signs pointing to Davey's guilt and/or guilty knowledge. If they all turn out to be just a coincidence, I'll be the first to apologize and bow my head in shame and repentance, but until then I'm not leaning on LE to lead us in the right direction concerning investigating Davey Blackburn for they have their own conspiracies, shortcomings and prejudices to deal with, and in fact, may never thoroughly investigate him. I have my doubts, I am not waiting with baited breath. Thank you for your kindness to me, Andrew. ABB

kimisan03 said...

@CJ, thank you for transcribing all this!


And they were highly impressed with me


DB may think it, but PN actually comes out and says it. Wow.

Anonymous said...

C said...
"We don't know what he does in private, whether he cries or is happy or sad. We only see the public Davey."

C, I agree with you on some of your points but I do think we can guess that Davey was not crying due to his appearance in the interviews. When you've been crying, it shows. Red eyes and a gaunt appearance from lack of sleep take awhile to go away, and tears tend to keep coming when a person who has suffered a great loss talks about it or is forced to think about it again. Even a person who has been sedated to help them through will have a depressed and sorrowful appearance, even if their emotions have been dulled. DB appears elated, excited, expansive, clear-eyed, well-rested. "It's such a conundrum!"

Concerned said...

While my chicken fries....(we can't eat fast food until this case is solved, can we?!)

I avoided the funeral on purpose because I felt, after Davey's statement and the obituary that it would be mostly about Davey and advancing the Brand. I knew. You knew.

I've been honored to do many eulogies in my life and I've been present for many more. Never have I written one or heard one that was more about the spouse than the person who was being memorialized. So incredible!

Unless my understanding is wonky here, does PN say he felt better about Davey when Amanda first walked into the room? Before they even had a conversation? So her beauty completed Davey? I realize that he goes on to talk about her connecting with people more than Davey but he actually felt better about Davey before that...because he landed such a pretty girl?
Please tell me I didn't imagine that because then Andrew will be right and I couldn't take that tonight! (Ha!)

Anonymous said...

I wonder if PN will begin to distance himself from DB, in language and otherwise, if/when the authorites begin to press in harder in their investigation (which I really hope is happening).

I don't think it's a true "mentoring" relationship... As long as PN can benefit from DB's publicity, fame and fortune, he'll be his best buddy. But when things start to go south for DB, he'll drop him.

DB, however, NEEDS PN...badlly. Where did he run to so soon after Amanda's murder? To his family? No....straight to PN himself.

SLH

Anonymous said...

I think this has been mentioned before, but I'm sure there will be phone records between Kenneth and Davey that uphold his twitter comment, showing that they talk every Tuesday morning...

sherry said...

I will take a dip in the DB didn't do the crime pool ...

Anyone remember Amy Fisher from Massapequa, Long Island? She was a teenager having an affair with an older, married man. She went to his house, knocked on the door and told his wife about her "sister" having an affair. The wife, Mary Jo, turned around and Amy Jo shot her in the head. Unlike Amanda, Mary Jo lived.

Maybe one of Resonate's members (teenage girl, young woman) had a huge crush on Davey and wanted to be his "helpmate," but Amanda was in the way. Maybe Davey flirted with her, made her feel special, maybe even Davey wanted to be with this girl/woman, but said he could never leave Amanda. Maybe they even fantasized how great life would be together if only he wasn't married to Amanda.

So the girl took matters into her own hands, found someone willing to help her out and now Davey is free to be with her. Could this account for DB's guilt?

CJ said...

I wish someone (jen ow? you there?) would tackle a parody of the Perry Noble address.

Beginning with:

"On behalf of the families I would like to thank the governor of the great state of Indiana for taking some time out of his Sunday afternoon to come and hear little ol' me (NOT!) preach at this celebration of—(aside to staff, what was her name again?)—SOMEONE's, um, story, and hey, how about that big C! And I'm not talking "Conspiracy" or "Cover up" here, folks, I'm talking about the Organization, errr, Church, and how, how unbelievably great it is that we are here today to rally around one man, and his name is Davey, umm, I mean, Jesus..."

Anonymous said...

Peter, I never knew that until a few days ago when I read it here. (Ramsey)

Anonymous said...

Oh.My.God., Peter, we (I) have stirred this up again!!!

Yes I do know they were indicted but not charged, THEN other incriminating evidence showed up indicating that there WAS an outside intruder. Don't forget this, Peter.

HOWEVER; oh please, let's don't get involved in this for a little while longer. You KNOW how much I respect your opinions and valued experiences. I do. You have much valuable experience in more ways than just statement analysis. So, until another time? I'll be waiting. (I know you want/need to prove it once and for all. ta da...) God bless! ABB

CJ said...

Peter,

Your analysis on the Blackburn case has been great.

In my remark yesterday I was including all of the comments on this case, which have varied in quality and accuracy depending on the poster.

I'm learning a lot.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Andrew. I was looking and waiting for your post. I appreciate it.

As for that gentle spirit you mentioned? ahhh... but sometimes I can be meaner than cat shyt. Depends on the extreme rudeness or false allegation of the situation involved. Wish I wasn't this way but it DOES happen. Alls I can do after I step back and cool it is to say I'm sorry because I always am, even making excuses for the other person who caused it in the first place. Know what I mean?

As for the possibility that Davey Blackburn may be proven not to have anything to do with Amanda's murder; I would not believe it. It would take some real and bona fide, honest effort to prove to me that he was not involved, not that anything needs to be proved to me; in the big picture, I am nothing. xx00xx.... ABB

CJ said...

As regards this part of Perry's address:

QUOTE: And Tuesday, this Tuesday, this past Tuesday, I got a text. And it said pray for, pray for Amanda and pray for Davey, because Davey just found Amanda on the floor and she’s got a head wound. And this is how it’s communicated to me, she’s got a head wound, and, um, they’ve rushed her to the hospital. And for me, in the world that I live in, I’m just gonna’ let you know, I thought, maybe she’s climbed up on the kitchen cabinet and she’s tried to get something and she fell and hit her head, um, and that’s serious, and we need to pray. And I went into a meeting and I stepped out an hour later and somebody said something about a gunshot and I said no no no no no this isn’t a gunshot, this is um, she probably fell in the kitchen, and they had to kind of take me to the side and sit me down and say no no, no no no no no, it’s a, it’s a home invasion, and Amanda has been killed. UNQUOTE

***********

How could Perry's staff know on Tuesday that Amanda had been killed, when she wasn't declared dead until Wednesday?

BB said...

I hate to think that I am causing Amanda's family undue anguish. I will be forever sorry if I am wrong and DB's behavior is truly just the result of amazing Faith. But I don't think that's the case.

Anonymous said...

CJ:

That's an interesting point. His statement doesn't jive with what we know.

SLH

Anonymous said...

From CJ above: How could Perry's staff know on Tuesday that Amanda had been killed, when she wasn't declared dead until Wednesday?

Nice catch CJ

Mdkd6262 said...

Peter, thank u for your commentary and insight. I have found your analysis to be both reasonable and objective.

For the record... my comments are my opinion and my beliefs. I peak using supposition in an attempt to make sense of DB radically odd behavior in light of the circumstances. I do not know for a fact that he did it and am not accusing him conclusively... I am of the opinion that DB is guilty of something & I believe that there have been clues left along the way pointing to the truth. I believe there is much here to be learned. And for the record, I am eager to be corrected if I state something incorrectly...

Louise K said...

Peter

your interpretation of intelligence is clearly different to mine.

DB may be cunning and good at passing exams, but intelligence is NOT something I would ascribe to him.

He has for example, zero emotional intelligence, despite all the posturing.

He was as stupid as your average crim when assuming he would plan the Perfect Crime

They never do.

In this case DB love affair with his own self promotion is the STUPIDEST thing he could have done

Its all in black and white, all recorded on film, all indisputable in his sheer lack of grief and excitement for an Amanda-less future.

This is NOT what I'd call smart.

Silent is smart, not beaming like an idiot on every teev that offers.

Anonymous said...

Im guessing the head wound might have been kind of obvious that she would not survive and so brain dead was probably being spoken early on.

Anonymous said...

Preacher Nobel will run like the devil is after him when he starts paying out big legal bills for Davey. Oh, he'll stick around for a while, got to make his own church look good, after all, HE is the one who financed and sent his little protégé' off to Indy, already knowing he was batshyt crazy.

Big lawyers are very pricey, and of course, he'll want the best. For all we know, he could already have one in the shadows advising him and Davey who is a member of his own congregation, I suspect he does; or their own legal team they keep on retainer is guiding the way for his Davey. They might need to step it up.

However, there will be a limit to just how much preacher Nobel is willing to shell out for Davey boy before he tucks tail and runs off into the sunset, and it won't be a bottomless well. It could again cost Davey's family everything they have to fight for him and still might not win. Legal troubles ahead? Could be. ABB

Anonymous said...

Somebody correct me? I read on a statement earlier that good buddy Kenneth and little David talk on the phone every Tuesday from 7:00 to 8:00 am, now I have read here in several posts that the time is from 7:30 to 8:30 am, so which is it? ABB

Concerned said...

Writing books is a big deal with the mentor right now.
Seems like I read he was about to put out number three.
However this turns out with Davey, there will be a story to tell of how this made the mentor a better man.
I slip between thinking he wants to protect his investment at all costs and wondering if he couldn't make the most of a story about his (PN's) love for sweet Amanda and how he knew Davey wasn't right to begin with. Duped by the very devil himself?
Either way you could probably go ahead and preorder that book from the "church"!

My brain also still wanders back to the former intern/babysitter being brought suddenly to work for Resonate in Indy this summer. Who initiated her move? She was on PN's payroll, right?
Could the struggling Resonate support another full time person? Where is she now?
Will she be Weston's babysitter when Davey is done grieving out of town?
Maybe lucky for DB she doesn't have statements to analyze since she made her Social Media accounts private the week of the murder (excuse me...event).

Concerned said...

Peter has analysis of Kenneth Wagner's statement on the blog and will follow with SA of the mentor.

Mdkd6262 said...

I was sexually molested for over a year by our youth minister at the age of 10. He lived with my family while he attended seminary. He was a hippie-type cool charismatic highly intelligent very talented musician who was very popular and held in high esteem by the church members because he was so popular & bold and loved using the "shock factor" as his MO. He spoke about sex all the time, making jokes and innuendos "normalizing" it to the adults and all those who were naive and oblivious to the warning signs. All the while fondling me right under everyone's noses even with them in the same room watching TV brazenly seeing how much he could get a way with. At night when everyone slept he did much more. I was powerless to speak up for myself. No one picked up on all the clues he was leaving. No one dared rock the boat and make anyone uncomfortable by speaking up. Because i see so many of the same traits in DB as were exhibited by my youth minister I feel obligated to speak up and at least say "that's not normal"... that commercial he made is not normal, him waving the gun around on stage is not normal, his interviews and demeanor and behavior is not normal, hhe way he treated Amanda was not normal. All his actions & words are there pointing to the truth about what is and has been going on behind the scenes... we may never know the truth or the extent of it but Amanda and Weston know the truth & neither of them are able to speak up for themselves either... that much I do know.

Concerned said...

Mdkd6262,
Every time I've read one of your posts, I've felt a connection. Now I think I know why.
My daughter was molested right under my nose by a family member. She didn't tell until he was dead.
She has found peace.
I pray that you have been able to talk about your molestation with others who understand and that you too have found peace.
I will keep you in my prayers in the days and months to come.


Anonymous said...

"‘cuz I’m like, Davey, um, Davey’s the kind of guy that I didn’t like when I was in school ‘cuz he’s beautiful. He’s a beautiful man, and if you’re a man you know exactly what I’m talking about. Like he walks in the room and he’s an athlete, and he’s chiseled, and he’s got that smile, and that little dimple thing and, he’s beautiful."

My my, this is quite some appreciation here.

Mdkd6262 said...

@concerned... thank you. After years of living with the aftermath, I finally found a trusted counselor who helped me. I have found peace.

Anonymous said...

Oh my god DB spoke at a church this weekend. I think it's his dad's church? 1hr 32m mark. Too many things to comment on now. Just WATCH!
https://vimeo.com/147251777

Anonymous said...

Actually it appears to be HER dads church. This is surreal.

Lis said...

Peter Hyatt said...
"The troublesome part for me is his lack of fear of the killer."

Peter, are you referring to DB here or to Wagner?

If DB, would narcissism explain the lack of fear? (A feeling of invinceability?)

Louise K said...

PMSL I nearly made the mistake of watching 1 1/2 hours of Gimme before old DB came up

What I want to know is, once you're "saved" - What Happens?

Do you float out of the church never to have an angry thought again? Do you grow your hair long and give all your stuff away? Work with the poor?

So you receive the Holy Spirit and....?

It sounds like, pardon me, but Snake Oil Sales 101

The SCARIEST part is how many people have nothing else to do in their lives but listen to nearly 2 hours of this shite.

What would be the reaction if say, a gang held a mass meeting and promised each other to go out and convert just one person?

A massive gang!

But that would be frowned upon because there's no Jesus involved...

These folk are the Crips of Organised Religion

Complete with gunfire...

Old Davey just happens to be front centre of the congregation too eh. Conveniently sitting (apparently alone) by the aisle.

BLOW THE TOWN UP?????

I told Dad I didn't want to speak to people (as he takes the microphone)<<<I actually LOL at this one

DB just told us he's not spoken to his own congregation<<<<<why the hell not? He's still their Pastor and they're still in need of his guidance at this horrific time, right?

Do the CONGREGATION have suspicions?

How to talk to your kids about what's going on in your life - dude, you murdered one and the other one doesn't care about YOUR life he's more worried about his mom's

"Are you willing to give up your bride, so mine (the Church) may come alive" <<<<<<Statement Analysis THAT folks!!!!! 1.33 Complete with Dupers Smirk...im not even kidding...

"sometimes you are put in a situation where you have to surrender all instead of surrender some" <<Weston is a lucky little boy.

Louise K said...

Why hasn't Davey spoke to his own congregation?

rosy said...

Anonymous said...
@ 12:40 PM
if in fact Larry Taylor was a male prostitute.

Any documentation for that?

If there is, the hit might be reprisal against Davey.

Concerned said...

After watching the video of yesterday's sermon by Amanda's dad, I'm too sad about the fact that her dad can speak of her murder as an "event" to even comment on Davey's "off the cuff" sermon promoting his brand in Indiana. The Heavens must weep at this perversion of the Gospel.

For those of you who haven't participated in a true Christian service, please don't assume this is God's church in the truest sense of the word. Just pick up a Bible and read the way it's supposed to be.

Louise K said...

Surely the Dad isn't part of it?

Probably not, he most likely sincerely believes in Davey because Amanda believed in Davey.

Right up till the end.

Davey's message is alarming imo. He equates Amanda's death with the growth of his congregation.

He doesn't use the word Sacrifice but the implication is clear imo

Justice Seeker said...

Peter, I don't know if this has been posted but please watch DB in this video from last Sunday. It begins around the 1 hr 32 mark with Amanda's dad and pastor of this church praying for Davey. Then Davey speaks.

"I told dad yesterday that I didn't want to say anything. Partially because I don't know how well I can hold it together when I speak to people?"

This statement alone is laughable because it contradicts the public perception that he is holding it together TOO well.

And then a few seconds later God asked Blackburn this question,

"Davey if I had asked you before this if you were willing to give up your bride so my bride would come alive what would you have said? Of course just like anybody would have said I said, 'absolutely not. There's no way, I'm good. I"m good with my wife, two kids, and my little church of 125.' and the Lord said that's why I didn't ask you the question before hand. Because sometimes when you say I surrender all you really surrender some...."

Wow. Peter analyze this please!

Then he moves into a passage Ezekial, And then he goes on to say that when he was in this church, his father-in-law's church last year it was a bunch of dry bones and God was going to use this to reconstruct them. He is basically saying his FIL church was DEAD and God "allowed" her murder to reconstruct it.

"And what God is doing now through this event God is now breathing life into this vast army. And I believe in some way, some shape, and some form that we can't wrap our mind around theologically that God didn't cause this to happen. But He allowed it in such a way that the breath of Amanda to come out of her so that the breath can be breathed into you and into me. So that we could advance the gospel in a way that history books have never even told."

This is the most difficult video to watch of all of the DB videos. History has told the story before

"For God so loved the world that he gave His only son that whosoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

In his conclusion Davey says, "do me a favor, Don't let this be wasted. Breathe the breath of life..."

Do Blackburn a "favor." A favor? his wife is murdered and he asks a favor and that's not to let this be wasted.

I transcribed as I was listening. Jesus put death to death. We don't need to another death to reconstruct the church, HIS bride. Blackburn is delusional and void of any ability to discern God's Truth, HIS voice, from the wrong voices he hears sitting in the pew that day or in his own home. I am sad for Amanda and worried about the well-being his own son, Weston.

Here is the video.

vimeo.com/147251777



Anonymous said...

Somebody mentioned, above, that Amanda's father was publicly supportive of DB during a sermon the father preached (I believe it was during a sermon). I would not expect Amanda's parents to be anything but supportive until they had a reason to be otherwise (i.e. the police find some kind of link between DB and the murder if one exists). There is a grandchild involved, Amanda's child, and I'm sure they would not want to alienate the father by participating in any speculation or unsubstantiated accusations. -gilly

Anonymous said...

Maybe this family truly has this depth of faith. And maybe this goal of mass conversion (so that "nothing is wasted") is their way to rationalize away the reality and pain.

Because it's not just Davey who's so zealous; it's the whole family. I can't fathom such beliefs, but maybe it is just as it appears. I don't begrudge them their beliefs.

Anonymous said...

Wow, Justice Seeker. I'm speechless. I will try to watch the video but what you've transcribed and shared is so unnerving I'm not sure I have the stomach to watch it. -gilly

rosy said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
@ 6:38 PM
I wonder if PN will begin to distance himself from DB, in language and otherwise, if/when the authorities begin to press in harder in their investigation
---------

I wonder too. PN began publicly distancing himself from DB in his oration at Amanda's Celebration of Life. Over and over (seven times total) he recalled Davey from when he was "crazy." Amanda rescued Davey from "crazy." When she walked in, he recalled, "I said, that thing that’s, hasn’t been quite right with Davey just got made right."

Right there at the Celebration of Life on live stream, PN exposed and confronted Davey, who cares so much about reputation, with the sketchy reputation he had in S Carolina before Amanda walked in.

PN will do everything possible to avoid being mixed up in any way with Davey as a liability.

If it turns out he can use him to capitalize on Amanda's legacy, maybe he will do that. But he will not stand by Davey out of compassion or loyalty. As he said, "if somebody joins your organization, that’s great, but if they bring crazy into the organization then they bring crazy to work with them every day. And so, we just try to identify crazy right from the start."

THank you CJ for the transcript (above in timeline).

Anonymous said...

At first Davey whispers to his fatherinlaw, with earbuds in, it sounds like Davey is asking to speak and the father says "right now?" and our humble apple pie davey, of course says yeah. What he wanted to say was "YES of course right now! I've been having to shad ap for the last 2 weeks and it's driving me bat sh*t crazy, I need to get the hell out of here and get back to brainwashing my congregation stat!"

You can just see it brimming at the top for Davey. He's either going to explode or go on heavy meds to contain his Christmas morning excitement. This whole case is disgusting to watch, but I can't stop watching. Kinda like a train wreck.

Concerned said...

Davey calls Amanda's father "Dad" quite freely.
I wonder what he calls his own father.
Does he call him anything? Is there a relationship? I haven't seen his parents or his brother in all this.
Have any of you?

Anonymous said...

Rose at 10:09
I agree with you, Rosy, and I wonder if the reason the mentor was so glad to send Davey to Indy was because he was tired of his "crazy" coming to work every day.

Anonymous said...

In the Sunday video at Amanda's father's church, I was surprised at his story of the incredible effort to get to the mother "church" for all the TV interviews. The media was willing to come to him. Why, in the midst of his family's grief did he leave them and go there? It makes me sad.

Anonymous said...

He was with his family over the Thanksgiving holiday. They posted a photo of Weston celebrating Christmas early.

dch said...

I'm new to this so apologies if I'm off track but isn't there some issue with "water" in statements? He starts with saying "I had a thought this morning while I was in the shower and felt like the Lord spoke to my heart..." Am I off track?

Anonymous said...

To anon @10:18: he went to SC to participate in an image rehab program, lead by his mentor, PN. His little speech at his FIL's church this past Sunday was part of this rehab. Imo.

Anonymous said...

Also, I noticed that on his facebook page, his dad "liked" his teeshirt marketing but as of this afternoon not a single person in AB's family had.

Canada

dch said...

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2013/03/water-in-statement-analysis-answered.html

Maggie said...

FYI for anyone still interested in the Facebook connections between DB and friends of Alonzo - Alonzo's gf took down the post she put up yesterday showing a connection between her friend Breezy and DB's Facebook friend Treezy.

Also, a question about the SUV supposedly seen and mentioned in early reports. I didn't see any mention of it in the affidavit and haven't heard much about it since. Were the early reports incorrect?

Anonymous said...

Anon at 10:22
I'm talking about Amanda's father staying up almost all night to get there.

Anonymous said...

Canada at 10:25
I was surprised to see Amanda's brother, James Byars, posting the SellingofAmanda t-shirts.
What is he thinking?!

Louise K said...

lol @ gaydar

this would fit in with Pastor Kenneth's devotion too

I wondered early on if DB is another Tyler Deaton

...

Confused said...

Are you guys aware that in one of DB's preaching youtube videos he says HE OWNS A GUN?????

Anonymous said...

So does Amanda's dad (owns guns) the family appeared to do a lot of hunting.

Amy Smith said...

I'm so sorry. Everything you said is exactly what caused my initial concern and interest in this case. The concern over his sexualized messages like Peter voiced is spot on in that DB showed signs of grooming his audience with kids present. The predator that abused you sounds a lot like my former youth music minister John Langworthy. He lived with my family while he attended seminary. He sexually abused multiple boys at Prestonwood in TX and in MS. He was convicted in MS in Jan. 2013.

Mdkd6262 said...

Wow... thank you for your response! Even though it has been 40 years... this is the first time I have acknowledged what happened to me to anyone outside my family. Coincidentally, I am also from MS! Is there any way I could email you in private to talk further?

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Justice Seeker @ 9:52 PM

Davey said what???

"And what God is doing now through this event God is now breathing life into this vast army. And I believe in some way, some shape, and some form that we can't wrap our mind around theologically that God didn't cause this to happen. But He allowed it in such a way that the breath of Amanda to come out of her so that the breath can be breathed into you and into me. So that we could advance the gospel in a way that history books have never even told."

The breath of Amanda??? Uh. Who thinks that way? What husband whose wife (much less pregnant) was shot in the back of the head, put on a ventilator, and declared brain dead is going to visualize (much less verbalize) the breath coming out his wife's body? What father is going to verbalize the last breaths escaping from his son's mother? Who does that???

So that the breath- This is strictly for dramatic effect from dead-inside Davey. Note he says "the" breath, not "her" breath. If he fully believed what he's been spouting that Amanda gave her entire life for Indy and so that people would come to know Jesus, he would have said "her" breath. Liar. Charlatan. Fraud.

So that the breath can be breathed into you and me- This is a both a blatant attempt to sound super spiritual, a way to justify Amanda's death, and a way to emotionally manipulate the congregation. He's just deified Amanda that the congregation needs Amanda's breath (not God's, nor God's touch). This is absolutely not Biblical (I am mentally shouting and raging at this moment)!!! God has never once required one ordinary human being (no matter how sweet she was) to die to breathe anything into any other human being. This is absurd! This is visual CPR, people. WHAT A LIAR AND MANIPULATOR!! What pure, unadulterated trash.

***Message to Davey and fellow Resonators- Show me one example of that in the Bible, please...Chapter and Verse, please.

Anonymous said...

I read through the Resonate Indy church webpage. No scriptural references in their statement of beliefs. Just a bunch of semi-edited standard statements of belief you see from most churches. The whole vibe from that church is that it's all about the performance, the buzzwords, do anything to get bodies in the door. It's typical behavior from poorly-trained megachurch wannabes.

Do Perry Noble and all of his incompetent acolytes have any formal seminary training? If so, what seminary in their right mind would teach all of this buzzword bullcrap?

Amy Smith said...

Absolutely. I'm a volunteer leader in TX with the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP). watchkeepamy@gmail.com

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Justice Seeker @ 9:52 PM

Thank you for bringing this to the table!

"Davey if I had asked you before this if you were willing to give up your bride so my bride would come alive what would you have said? Of course just like anybody would have said I said, 'absolutely not. There's no way, I'm good. I"m good with my wife, two kids, and my little church of 125.' and the Lord said that's why I didn't ask you the question before hand. Because sometimes when you say I surrender all you really surrender some...."

This Conversation may have happened in Davey's head, but it was not with God (THE GOD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob). The idea that Amanda had to die to bring life/breath to the church or make the church alive is NOT Biblical at all, blasphemous, delusional at it's best, evil at it's worst. WHAT A LIE!!! If his father-in-law and other person sitting in that church, Resonate, or NewSpring really believed that then God help all. He's another Jim Jones (Guyana) or David Koresh (the Branch Davidians). Someone with serious authority like Child Protective Services needs to step in NOW! He's not insane or delusional...he knows exactly what he's doing and he's dangerous. He's the type that doesn't back down and isn't wrong, even with his back to the wall and no other options. He is dangerous.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Mdkd6262

I am sorry for what you've been through. I'm very glad that you've had some good counseling. I know quite a few people who were molested. A few were molested by pew-warmers disguised as "Christians", including my former father-in-law. I thank God (seriously) that we did not own a gun at the time. Having worked with children, I am hyper-vigilant. I freak when parents send their children alone into an opposite sex bathroom. I want to scream when I see a parent ask a stranger to take their child into the bathroom...that is SO dangerous, I don't care how nice they look!

Again, I am glad you've found a good counselor. They make such a difference in helping a victim process what happened and helping them in the process of healing. I always encourage victims to see a counselor (many insurances will cover it) and many counselors will work out some type of payment plan if money is an issue.

rosy said...

Justice Seeker said
at 9:52 PM
"Then he moves into a passage Ezekial, And then he goes on to say that when he was in this church, his father-in-law's church last year it was a bunch of dry bones and God was going to use this to reconstruct them. He is basically saying his FIL church was DEAD and God "allowed" her murder to reconstruct it."
----
Hard to watch. In actuality, since January this year PB's church in Elkhart, far from dry bones, has been part of a revival, "Revive Indiana," starting in the north and spreading all over the state. Stimulated by an outfit in Richardson, Texas called Time to Revive. DB is late to the parade. See from July, Fort Wayne, "Christians see city ripe for revival Local volunteers join statewide push to spread gospel"
Rosa Salter Rodriguez | The Journal Gazette
http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/Christians-see-city-ripe-for-revival-7484078

That voice in the shower stuff cracked me up. Almost frightening.

MDB said...

I just watched the video of him from yesterday and it made me think again that he was involved in the murder. The part where he talked about how he would have been happy to have had a wife, 2 kids, and a congregation of 120... it's just a dead giveaway that 1) he knows that he's supposed to talk about the unborn child, 2) the size of his church is *always* on his mind, and 3) he still expects that this will make his church grow (that was implicit in his statement - the choice was to either have his wife and a church of 120 OR lose his wife and presumably have the church grow).

Dude is either severely, severely whacked or he was involved.

Mdkd6262 said...

Thank you...

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

MDB @ 12:20

I'd bet that Davey's "revelation from God" (cough-cough) was likely followed by taking a special offering for Davey & Weston, or someone directing them (verbally, a note in a bulletin, or on-screen) to a link/website to donate or honor Amanda, or one way to show their support for Amanda and FOR INDY would be buying a t-shirt and "proudly" wearing it. Davey makes me sick and these people who give him a platform or a pulpit make me sick too. The wolf pack is howling and circling the flock, somebody better be learning what a wolf looks and sounds like quickly.

I cannot believe that Amanda's dad stood there and basically let Davey insult hi, saying his congregation is "dry bones"...devoid of life, spiritually dead. I would have gotten up and made a huge production of leaving. In this particular case, I'm not so sure I would not have stood up in that service, Bible open, and called him out. I would have been escorted out I'm sure, but it would be worth it if it made just one person question Davey Blackburn's lack of integrity. The Apostle Paul would have and did on many an occasion. A least, I'd be in good company, ;) I bet Davey would see Paul in a whole new light. ;)

Concerned said...

Davey's "impromptu" speech full of nonsense yesterday was well-rehearsed and likely created with coaching from the mentor, who is not confined to sharing divinely inspired scripture. He has never met a commandment he couldn't turn into a "saying". Read pajama pages.com and search Perry Noble.

PN is proud of not being trained in a seminary or Bible college and offers an unaccredited school at his headquarters. Attendees pay $2000 per year for a 2 year program + books and other materials (to include the works of PN, I would suspect). There is not Bible immersion that you will find in true Bible schools.

We should stop being surprised that these people sprinkle some Jesus talk on top of a soup pot full of bunk.
Call it what you will. I call it lies. Not slip-ups. Big soul-jarring Lies.

Anonymous said...

I am surprised that Amanda' FIL allowed Davey to speak to his congregation.
This is First Baptist Church, is it not?
There was a huge rift between PN and the Baptist churches after his sermon declaring that the Ten commandments were only sayings, with him redefining what the divinely inspired words meant. He declared that God had given him the words to that sermon and he was told to deliver it on Christmas Eve.
Was Phil Byars not part of that group?

Anonymous said...

Can I have Weston, please? I would raise him in a home free of all this BS (on both sides on the family).

BB said...

SERIOUSLY? "Just cruising the hood looking for a hitchhiker to give a ride to"????? #ForIndymyass https://mobile.twitter.com/derekmbarrett/status/631877708016943105

Anonymous said...

Davey Blackburn has destroyed Amanda's whole family, they just don't realize it yet. By the time they do it will be too late. Using the lovely name of Jesus, of course; and as an angel of light, he began his toehold in their lives with the taking of Amanda, now he uses her murder to gather more souls to their own destruction.

These are the works of satan, he boldly sits on the church pew and in high places, seeking whom he may devour. The Bible warns us of these later day false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing. They are strong and they are fierce, they band together. Sheep led to the slaughter. It is very sad actually. ABB

Anonymous said...

Lisa, your post from 4:20 pm yesterday; Child Protective Services does not get involved in investigating child abuse until a specific complaint has been filed stipulating neglect and/or child abuse. They don't deal with what might happen in the future. They don't read internet posts and decide 'maybe we'd better look into that'. They also do not ride around giving trailer parks, vacant lots or playgrounds the windshield view to see if any child hanging out might be abused, or ask questions, nor do they knock on doors looking to find child abuse. They do not have the time or the resources to do these things, nor is there any law that would support them doing this.

They only investigate bona fide specific complaints, and only then one allegation at the time, many which never produce any results. Each complaint becomes a separate case file of its' own. It takes a lot of individual complaints and most frequently even eye witnesses for them to build a file and start serious investigation of a specific situation, meanwhile a child continues to be abused; unless it becomes a situation where LE is called in and determines a child should be removed right then via emergency order, then Child Protective Services is called to remove the child.

In most cases however, when Child Protective Services finally presents a specific case to a Family Court Judge for action, after thorough investigation, they must have previously documented many requirements they are mandated to perform in numerous detailed forms showing proof of their allegations before they can even submit their case before the judge for determination. To give them the benefit of the doubt, their hands are tied in many instances while they build their case. They do not make up the rules, they are under the jurisdiction of Family Court.

This is how so many innocent babes slip through the cracks; however, while Child Protective Services appears to be taking their sweet time, while working very long hours investigating so many complaints, no one stays on top of the case where the child is suffering abuse, while they give too much flexibility to the abusers and the child can wind up dead. That's the way it is Lisa. ABB

Anonymous said...

Sounds to me like he's alibi building for DB.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

Excerpting Davey' speech @ FIL's church- Thanks to Justice Seeker @ 9:52 PM Nov.30

"Davey if I had asked you before this if you were willing to give up your bride so my bride would come alive what would you have said? Of course just like anybody would have said I said, 'absolutely not. There's no way, I'm good. I"m good with my wife, two kids, and my little church of 125.' and the Lord said that's why I didn't ask you the question before hand. Because sometimes when you say I surrender all you really surrender some...."


Davey is "borrowing" his story line from the book of Job in the Old Testament. Long story short Job such was a righteous, God-loving, God-honoring man that the devil told God the only reason Job loved God was because of all the gifts God had given him. Paraphrasing it here- Take away his gifts and Job would turn on God. God said take way his gifts and we'll see (god knew his man Job). So, Job's wife died, his children died. Essentially, he lost everything, but continued to honor and love God...he loved the Giver and knew his wife and children were in Heaven. The devil lost, God gave Job a new wife, abundant children, and blessed him in all his endeavors.

So, don't be shocked when Davey's "god" gives him a new wife and an even better life ("the best is yet to come"). Davey is twisting scripture nearly beyond recognition to suit his purposes. It doesn't even remotely resemble God. But to people who don't know their Bible, there's just enough Bible dust sprinkled in to make it sound legit and he's a "Man of god"- he wouldn't lie. (gag)

** Word to Phil Byars (Perry Noble you might want to take note too)-
This wolf wouldn't think twice about stealing your sheep; he needs a bigger flock to feed on than what he can bring in on his own. TRUTH

"And what God is doing now through this event God is now breathing life into this vast army... "- Amanda's murder and the murder of his unborn baby is an "event" to Davey. Events are productions, require preparation, and are celebratory in nature (Wedding, 50th Birthday party, Retirement Party, Work Christmas Party, 50th Anniversary party, Baby Shower, Banquets, Celebrity New Year's Parties, etc.). Note this previously termed "tragic death" (per Davey's 1st statement) is now an event, complete with T-shirts for sale for fans. As one of my family members pointed out, Davey is working overtime to distance himself from the word Murder. Why? He has no trouble using her murder to promote his church. So, he's neither distancing himself nor disassociating from it. People consciously and unconsciously avoid painful topics...he's not, only the word Murder. I'd like to know his definition of murder, as opposed to killing.

Foolsfeedonfolly said...

I'm sorry for typos in my above post. he keyboard is apparently dying on my dinosaur Dell. Going to find my Mac. LOL

tania cadogan said...

Kenneth's tweet said:
It said, "Love my weekly convos with @daveyblackburn! So refreshing to have a true friend to do life with."


What a strange thing to say.

do life with."

It sounds as if he is preparing to do a long prison sentence.

I would expect something along the lines of a true friend to go through life with, or, a true friend to live life with.

Even that way it sounds like a profession of love.

I noticed also the dropped pronouns, is this the way he normally tweets?

no matter how i voice the words it keep coming back to a prison.

You do life in prison, you don't do life outside.

Is there a connection between them that is leaking out?

Why did he need to effectively provide and alibi for davey the day he found his wife brutally assaulted and shot?
Note also when he talked about it, it was out of chronological order, making it sensitive.

I suggest that all those connected to davey be polygraphed, people at the gym, the congregation, friends, mentors.

There is a link between davey and the killers, there can be no other explanation for his words and behavior, i have tried (and posted) as to why davey could not be involved.

He may not have pulled the trigger, he may not even have hired the killer.

His sermons though testify to his bad relationship with his wife Amanda, he demeaned and defamed her, he openly mocked her, she was pregnant and this meant more expense.
Expense that perhaps meant cutting back on gym time, manscaping, clothes etc, none of which fitted in with his visions of a megachurch and the money that comes with it.

He may not have openly declared he wanted his wife dead, he was however grooming, and, if you groom the right people without coming out with what you want, you may find they will do what is needed off their own cognizance in order to make you feel better and perhaps become available.

rosy said...

tania cadogan said...
December 1 at 3:39
Kenneth's tweet said:
It said, "Love my weekly convos with @daveyblackburn! So refreshing to have a true friend to do life with."
What a strange thing to say.
do life with."
It sounds as if he is preparing to do a long prison sentence.
I would expect something along the lines of a true friend to go through life with, or, a true friend to live life with.
Even that way it sounds like a profession of love.
--------------------

Googling is a good way to out if an unfamiliar idiom might actually be widely used in a circle or sub-culture.

Google brings up "About 2,550,000,000 results for do life with."
The idiom features in titles of bestselling books, websites and the FB page for the Do Life movement:

Do Life. - Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/DoLifeMovement/

Ben Does Life.
bendoeslife.tumblr.com/

Kitchen: Do life with us! | Wayside Chapel
waysidechapel.org/spiritual-blueprint/kitchen/
In our small groups we “do life together” with accountability and prayer, supporting one another through the tough times. This is where transforming relationships ...

Do Life., Little Rock, Arkansas. 12761 likes · 286 talking about this. Encouraging the world to Do Life.
What does it mean to “do life together”? | School of Thought
https://dannydaley.wordpress.com/.../what-does-it-mean-to-do-life-toget...

God Wants to do Life With You! - Joe McGee Ministries
joemcgeeministries.com/god-wants-to-do-life-with-you/

Plenty more to look into. Ive burdened the page with enough links.

Not my cup of coffee. I do life by the motto, I can look it up.

JMTO said...

Canada-
After reading your post on "Babywise" and Anons post 2:35?

I did a little research- probably the most controversial baby rearing book out there- with slapping and pinching for blowing "raspberries" or just plain leaving them in their cribs and ignoring them.

How much do you want to bet that Amanda wanted NOTHING to do with this book?

THIS is probably why Davey never came home until night time.

And then not following Daveys orders on how to raise Weston- knowing she was pregnant and would be defying him again, not raising their new baby the "Babywise" way.

Reading this gave me chills.

If I walked up to him or anyone holding that book I would slap it right out of their hands.

rosy said...

tania cadogan said...
December 1 at 3:39

There is a link between davey and the killers, there can be no other explanation for his words and behavior
===================

I have pointed out at 6:29 PM that there can be another explanation for the words the judgment avove takes as basis, viz:
What a strange thing to say.
do life with.

In fact "Do Life" is the name of a religious movement founded on ideals of accountability.

Experience show stat there may be other explanations for words we believe can have none other but the one that is haunting or obsessing us.

Minimum due diligence demands looking for other explanation, e.g. by Googling and other ways of exploring unfamiliar verbal idioms.

Ditto for another notion posted today in response to Davey's tweet about Amanda sun-tanning on the shores of heaven. This was taken to signify that Davey must have preferred women of color to Amanda.

In point of fact, Amanda tanned herself before she ever met Davey. She went to college at Pensacola Christian College in Florida, a sun-tan paradise. This afternoon I asked a young Midwest woman how many of her peers tan, she said quite a few do, and she pointed out, most gyms have tanning beds.

How many fly South in the winter and for spring break without aiming to build or refresh a tan?

rosy said...

Anonymous JMTO said...
Canada-
After reading your post on "Babywise" and Anons post 2:35?
I did a little research- probably the most controversial baby rearing book out there- with slapping and pinching for blowing "raspberries" or just plain leaving them in their cribs and ignoring them.
How much do you want to bet that Amanda wanted NOTHING to do with this book?
THIS is probably why Davey never came home until night time.

=============
How do you know Amanda wanted nothing to do with the book? Amanda's beliefs were more radically puritanical than Davey's. She believed in not even kissing until marriage, and held she true to this belief. In college, she gave up phoning and texting Davey (their only contact at the time) for Lent, which in his circle of friends was unheard of before Amanda. She devoted herself to rescuing young women from sins of the flesh.

I would not be surprised me if Amanda read the book too. She may have suggested it for Davey to look at. This does not mean they necessarily followed such a regimen (imo ridiculous and even abusive)in raising their own baby boy.

rosy said...

JMTO said...
at at 6:40 PM
If I walked up to him or anyone holding that book I would slap it right out of their hands.

-
Ironically, if you did so you would enact the type of discipline this book and its ilk recommend.

rosy said...


Peter Hyatt said
at 8:59 PM on Nov 29, 2015
"I have asked experienced investigators, analysts and professionals what they could say to help support the premise that Davey Blackburn has no association with those who killed his wife."
------------
Peter,
Tonight it struck me that what you are asking overall runs counter to a principal of Western justice, namely, that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

I'm positive you are aware of, as one source puts it, "One of the most sacred principles in the American criminal justice system, holding that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty. In other words, the prosecution must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, each essential element of the crime charged."

I'm sure also that you accept that this same principle holds beyond the courtroom, applying no less to people who have not been accused.

If evidence suggests that DB did/does have an association with those who killed his wife, then it may become incumbent on him to prove otherwise or to prove that the association was not criminal.

So, are you asking here for people to serve as theoretical members of DB's defense team should he come to trial instead of the men currently in jail?

Or are you encouraging the belief that DB is guilty of a crime unless commentators here can prove him innocent?

Pak31 said...

I watched some of AB's dad in the 11-29 sermon. I grew up going to Catholic Church so I understand the message he was speaking of. Louise who commented earlier about who could sit through that? A lot of people go to church to hear the word of God or hear people preach. I don't think the things her dad was saying we're all that bad. Maybe because I was brought up that way. I don't go to church now but I understand the message. What weirded me out was the part when DB came on. Then things get weird. Her dads messages were basic but DB gets way too metaphorical and preachy. It's scary and hart to understand. He certainly went from not wanting to talk to going full speed really quick. I wonder if him speaking wasn't an attempt at damage control. Sounded like it to me.

mom2many said...

About BabyWise and sleep training:
The sleep schedule quoted by Davey first clued me in that they were familiar with the BabyWise/Ezzo methodology. Here are two links that are favorable to the BabyWise methods: http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/05/sleep-training-babywise.html and http://www.babysleepsite.com/sleep-training/avoid-babywise-pitfalls/. Notice the immediate conflict on when this training is to begin? The method has been edited so many times because of the significant health consequences that were tied to the early versions. The Christian course, Growing Kids God's Way, instructed the parents (when I took it) to disassociate with other parents using other parenting methods, as if the 'clingy', 'needy' kids they projected result from other philosophies will infect your children like a virus. Later on, as the children grow, this isolation is necessary because the parents are not to introduce any reference or talk about sex until the night before the wedding. But, back to the training articles linked, you will notice that there is quite a bit of hedging and appealing to other methods to temper the BabyWise recommendations. Given my experience with the materials, I think this is the articles' authors modifications to BabyWise, not true to the intentions of the Ezzos. The entire purpose of the training in BabyWise is to enforce parental control in all things--hunger, sleep, with whom to associate, choice of daily outfit, etc.--and to break the will of the child.

mom2many said...

I forgot to mention the most damning thing about the Ezzos and their methods: the fractured relationships between the Ezzos and their adult children, the Ezzos control tactics and character flaws, and the two churches he was associated with that declared Ezzo unfit for public ministry: http://www.drmomma.org/2009/12/adventure-in-ezzoland.html, http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/november13/6.70.html

Anonymous said...

I believe DB is gay. Often gay males who are hiding in the closet will become angry at the person to whom they are attracted and/or angry at those who do not "have" to hide. They go to great lengths to "prove" to ANYONE AND EVERYONE that they are heterosexual, even bragging about lack of self control towards women, bragging about inappropriate behavior towards women, expressing frustration over lack of sex from a wife. The frustration is real, as the more hetero sex he has the more "proof" he has that he is hetero. His claims (on stage) that his heterosexual urges are so constant and so strong that he is in never-ending danger of breaking his vows to God and his wife and his church, and has to have his web browsing info sent to another paster and his own wife to keep his heterosexual lusts in check, are just more "proof" of how very very heterosexual he is. Even IF he had nothing to do with his wife's death he will feel that the "burden" of maintaining a heterosexual lifestyle with her has been lifted from his shoulders. Combine that with his narcissism and what you get is a man who feels like he has just won the jackpot...And can not contain his elation. He may have loved his wife on SOME level but he hated her for the lie he was "forced" to live with her. And he hated her for "denying" him the "proof" he needed to perpetuate that lie. Sex.

Anonymous said...

I believe DB is gay. Often gay males who are hiding in the closet will become angry at the person to whom they are attracted and/or angry at those who do not "have" to hide. They go to great lengths to "prove" to ANYONE AND EVERYONE that they are heterosexual, even bragging about lack of self control towards women, bragging about inappropriate behavior towards women, expressing frustration over lack of sex from a wife. The frustration is real, as the more hetero sex he has the more "proof" he has that he is hetero. His claims (on stage) that his heterosexual urges are so constant and so strong that he is in never-ending danger of breaking his vows to God and his wife and his church, and has to have his web browsing info sent to another paster and his own wife to keep his heterosexual lusts in check, are just more "proof" of how very very heterosexual he is. Even IF he had nothing to do with his wife's death he will feel that the "burden" of maintaining a heterosexual lifestyle with her has been lifted from his shoulders. Combine that with his narcissism and what you get is a man who feels like he has just won the jackpot...And can not contain his elation. He may have loved his wife on SOME level but he hated her for the lie he was "forced" to live with her. And he hated her for "denying" him the "proof" he needed to perpetuate that lie. Sex.

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