Thursday, October 25, 2012

Statement Analysis Intuitive Test

The following is a test for readers of Statement Analysis. 

This is a case of a missing 13 year old girl.  The mother reported her missing, and a week later, was asked two questions by a television host.  In her answers, police found the two most important aspects of the case.  

Although her answers reveal much, this test is seeking only the two most pressing points.  

The mother of "Sally" reported that she was to walk to her father's and on to a sleep over, but never made either, so the next day, mother made the police report.  

Can you identify them?   Put your answers in the comments section, labeled 1 and 2.  Please explain your answers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interviewer:  1.  Miss *******, how far did she have to go to get to the little sleepover? 

Simple Question:  How far did she have to go?  

Mother: Four to five blocks. It wasn’t rare for Sally to walk a short distance during daylight. She wasn’t allowed out after dark especially to walk, but she only had four to five blocks to go.


2.  Interviewer: Tell me what happened the day she went missing, Miss ******.


Mother: She went missing on Monday while I was at work. My boyfriend - - he came home from work about 3:00 -- or he got to my house about 3:00. And he`s seen Sally. Sally was there. She told him, I`m running across the street to my dad`s house for a few minutes but I`m going Mary Beth`s, and I`m staying the night there. Let my mom know.

So that evening when he picked me up from work, we got home, we were getting ready for bed. I didn’t get worried when I hadn’t heard from Sally. I thought she was at Mary Beth`s. I was kind of upset that she didn’t call and confirm it with me, but not worried at that point.

Tuesday, I was at work again, I left my cell phone at home for my kids to use when I`m working. So Tuesday, I called my son. I said tell Sally, text the little girl, her friend, tell Sally she needs to go ahead and get home. This was around lunch. My son called me back within a few minutes and she said, mom, she said Sally never made it over there. She never spent the night.

So at that point I called Sally’s dad and found out she didn’t over there and she didn’t stay the night with him. I left from work and went to the police station in Colorado City and reported her missing.



In these two answers to two simple questions, police knew two major points about the case, changing any and all opinion to these two major points.  Can you identify the two most important aspects of the case, and explain why you have come to this conclusion. 

59 comments:

Mouse74 said...

1. She knows her daughter is dead. Past tense verb usage in the first answer.

2. She needs an alibi. She concludes that her daughter went missing while she was at work, and it's the first thing she says after being asked what happened that day. That is the first thing she wants to put out there, that without a doubt, she was at work when Sally went missing.

john said...

OT..Is it an unwritten rule that members do not analylise each others replys,as in What goes on in fight club stays in fight club/lol.

Are there special circumstances when members do analyse one anothers replys..

IE..If a member is being verbaly abused Etc? and if we do,do we keep it to ourselves or express are analysis and opinions..Ive always wondered since i joined SA..

john said...

OT..Peter you have ruined every police drama on TV for me? LOL HaHA

Since learning SA i can tell with in 15mins of the programe who DID and who DID NOT commit the crime using SA.However it is great fun watching and picking up on the language the writer uses..

Anonymous said...

it seems odd that the mother suddenly jumps to the perspective of Sally in the first paragraph.

Anonymous said...

'Mother: Four to five blocks. It wasn’t rare for Sally to walk a short distance during daylight. She wasn’t allowed out after dark especially to walk, but she only had four to five blocks to go.'

Two past tense verbs used in opening statement. Mother believes Sally is dead.

Dead people don't visit their other parent and go to sleepovers. The boyfriend who backs up this mother's story is involved in the cover up and knows Sally is dead.

IMO Sally was killed before mom went to work to have an alibi.

Pythia Serpentis said...

The word "wasn't" is used twice, and "had" is used once. Both are past tense, and she should be using present tense language, unless she knows something we don't about the status of her child's well being.

BostonLady said...

1. Mother refers to daughter in past tense. "Wasn't" far for her to go. The mother has knowledge that her daughter is dead.

2. Mother answered more than the question at hand. The mother added where she was when the daughter went missing and this is unnecessary except for the mother who wants to set up an alibi immediately. The answer is sensitive and needs further investigation by the analyst.

Jane said...

This is quite curious: "My son called me back within a few minutes and she said, mom, she said Sally never made it over there." The mother is referring to her son speaking, and she calls him "she." In fact, she says "she said" twice. Who said Sally "never made it"?

john said...

OT..Peter here is a short statement from Karen Ward who says she was alledgedly touch inapropriatly when she was young by Freddy Star a comedian over here in the UK.


'I was horribly, horribly humiliated by Freddie Starr, who had a very bad attack of wandering hands and had groped me, and I didn’t like him because he smelled like my step-father and it frightened me and freaked me out, and I rebuffed him'
Karin Ward..

What jumps out at me is her sensory recall about him smelling like her Step-father..




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214785/Freddie-Starr-forced-admit-mistaken-TV-footage-unearthed-1974.html#ixzz2AK5G1EUA
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

john said...

She also uses a lot of first person singular "I" and "ME" and talks in past tense...

Anonymous said...

Oh dear... we are talking about Billie Jean Dunn here, aren't we?
Past tense usage = dead child.
"Alibi-building" (i.e. I was at work when all this went down...."

Mouse74 said...

Is anyone else annoyed by the OT comments? People abuse the comments section to be their own blog, at times.

Dee said...

#1 - It wasn’t rare for Sally to walk a short distance during daylight. She wasn’t allowed out after dark especially to walk, but she only had four to five blocks to go.

She only had four or five blocks to go is correct usage of past tense. The "wasn't rare" and "she wasn't allowed" are sensitive as she refers to "Sally" in the past tense. She wasn't allowed to go out after dark - will she be allowed to in the future? There is no future here.

#2 - "Tell me what happened the day she went missing, Miss ******."
That is the question, what happened, not where you were when she went missing. She does not answer the question of what happened that day but immediately goes to alibi building - "I was at work."

That was enough to tell LE that she needs further investigation and that "Sally" likely would not be found alive.

Billie Jean, oops I mean Miss *******, is a liar and knows what happened to her daughter although she may not know exactly where she is .

Hobnob said...

Mother: Four to five blocks. It wasn’t rare for Sally to walk a short distance during daylight. She wasn’t allowed out after dark especially to walk, but she only had four to five blocks to go
Note past tense WASN'T not the expected isn't.
For a parent to use past tenseindicates knowledge or belief Sally is dead.

Mother: She went missing on Monday while I was at work.
A good question as it allows to subject to pick a point in time to0 begin.
Here the first thing the mom says is I WAS AT WORK
Alibi building.
Why the need to build an alibi?

My boyfriend - - he came home from work about 3:00 -- or he got to my house about 3:00.
£ is the liars number an when it crops up it should be flagged for attention although it may not indicate deception. Further questions should be asked aout the time.
She changes from came home from work indicating he did a full day to he got to my house leaving a temporal lacuna between him leaving and him getting back.

She also says MY house taking ownership rath than our or the house indicating shared.

we were getting ready for bed.
She doesn't tell us we went to bed or to sleep so we can't assume, she only tells us we were getting ready. what did that involve> did they not finish getting ready?

Tuesday, I was at work again,
Temporal lacuna for monday night, she doesn't tell us she woke up or the boyfriend did. Tuesday starts with her at work again alibi building.
What happened over the monday night /tuesday morning that she isn't telling us.

Hobnob said...

Mouse74 said...
Is anyone else annoyed by the OT comments? People abuse the comments section to be their own blog, at times.


We do not have the option to create a new topic when something of interest criops up, be it new information on a case we are following or a new case.
This is why we put off topc so Peter and heather are aware.
Depending on the subject of the Off Topic post they can and frequently do, start a new post.

It is a quick way for us to bring something relevant to the blog to their attention.
They either create a new post and commentators post there or they leave as is.

They will also delete any posts that break their TOS.

I hope this helps :)

BTW hi John.
I know i analyse posts especially if they are of the green , hairy lurker under the bridge type posts.
Once SA is learned it cannot be unlearned nor can ot be turned off, it becomes as natural as breathing.
Much can be learned from what they say especially when they get vitriolic, it means we hit a sensitive spot.

I agree it does rather spoil whodunnits and thrillers, i also note as i work my way through all my Dick Francis books, thing that crop up in every book such as beef.
I also admit i pick faults in all the CSI programs etc, I cannot blame Peter and Heather for that though hehe.

john said...

I'm addicted to SA now hobs the more I learn the more I want to learn...makes an appointment with therapist..lol

MizzMarple said...

Off Topic and carrying over Hobnob's post from another analysis:

Hobnob said...
off topic

A friend of the prime suspect in the case of Kyron Horman who has been missing for two years, refused to answer 142 questions related to his disappearance, pleading the Fifth Amendment, it was revealed today.
Kyron Horman went missing from Skyline School on June 4, 2010, and his stepmom Terri Horman was named in a civil suit as the prime suspect because she was the last person to see him.
Now, Kyron's biological mother Desiree Young - who divorced father Kaine before their son vanished - has asked a judge to force Terri's friend to answer all of the questions put to her during a deposition taken earlier this month.
DeDe Spicher was uncooperative during questioning - even refusing to identify a picture of her friend, whether she knew her husband and if she had ever met Kyron - in the $10million civil suit filed by Young.

----------------------------

THANK YOU for this update !

Peter, will you be able to do Statement Analysis on Dede Spicher's Deposition ?

The Deposition has been posted online.

The link is : http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/DeDe-watermarked-1.pdf

Thank You !

Mouse74 said...

Fair enough. Well put. Point taken :)

Bonnie Blue said...

I agree with people above concerning the past tense use of verbs showing that Sally is probably going to be found dead.

And, where a person begins is the most sensitive & Mom was alibi building.

My other thoughts were that when she refers to Mary Beth twice by name in her statements, but then when she reiterates the information from her son & how she told him to tell Sally to get on home, she now refers to MaryBeth as "the little girl, her friend".

When repeating what the son said to her, the word "Mom" is inserted at an strange time & almost makes it hard to follow along.

Next, she tells what she is thinking throughout when she is supposed to just tell us what happened. Usually people explain briefly first, and then they may go back & say what they were thinking or why they did something else.

When extra words are added, they are to be marked as sensitive.
After using past tense describing Hailey walking to where she was going, at 3 (liars number) then she adds that she is allowed to walk (feeling the need to explain), but then adds:
She wasn’t allowed out after dark especially to walk, but she only had four to five blocks to go.
I am not sure of the logic I use for this, but my intuition just tells me that walking after dark is eerie to me ... I can't help but think that someone is out after dark with Hailey.

And, as I mentioned at an earlier date, Mom said it was 3pm when Sally left. So why bring up the next sentence as if she left after dark? Unless we are talking about Alaska, it isn't dark anywhere at 3pm so that goes without saying (?) So maybe this was a diversion tactic? Or maybe when we find out what really happened we will see that it being dark played heavily on her mind? I don't know.

Another thing that I had a problem with, intuition only, but for any particular reason I can state & make sense...
If this happened to me, my heart would jump because I have always been a paranoid Mom but I can't say that immediately I would have thought she was "missing" or that I needed to leave work immediately & go to the Police. I think I would have had my son gather the phone #s of her closest friends from my cell (which is at home) and we would both start making calls to see where she really was. She has not been "trouble" previously, so I would never assume she ran away ... and although the thought may flash about the kidnapping, I may refuse to believe it until I speak to not only Dad, but the bf, the Aunt 2 streets over or other usual places she loves to go. I would probably do this pretty quickly, but I will cover all the bases because I would also assume they are going to ask me at the police station if I did that already.
So that's always bothered me. Also, the first place I would head to is grab my cell to see what texts or call log she had used, then I would go directly to MaryBeths and speak to her and her mother & see if there were arrangements or what was going on...

The next part that confused me was that she was picked up from work, got home, and got ready for bed ... I thought she was about to tell me something but she really didn't. It was a confusing way to be able to tell me that she did worry about her daughter not calling or was irritated. She could have just as easily started that scenario by saying that even before she went to bed that night, it struck her funny that Sally didn't call to check in & I was annoyed that she didn't even ask me about this sleepover
and I would completed that by probably saying I made a mental note of it to talk to her about it when she got home ....

I just kept telling myself not to nitpick someone but I found myself shaking my head when Mom was finally done & just going "hugh?". It raised more questions than it did in giving me answers ...



Bonnie Blue said...

I would like to make another quick point; When Whitney Heichel's husband heard she didn't show up to Starbucks first made some calls, then drove to check a few places before going to Police, and, a few of us on this blog agreed that Jessica Ridgeway's Mom probably wasn't the most attentive Mom & even she drove around & checked the park, and Jessica's usual spots before being alarmed enough to go to Police.
I could go on & on, these are just the most recent.
So I guess I am not the only one that would check most likely places first, and then raise the alarm.

Anonymous said...

Off-topic.
There is a new page set up on Facebook, an "Anti Dede Spicher" page, on which her cousin, Thomas Jones, has been making some interesting statements regarding her alleged involvement in the Kyron Horman disappearance. I would love to see Statement Analysis on what he had to say. The post is fairly new, from about an hour ago or maybe 3:30 EST.

Anonymous said...

This sentence stood out for me too. "we were getting ready for bed"

then what? what happened at that point? That is either a deceptive statement or a statement with important missing information about the events.

Anonymous said...

Great points John.

Anonymous said...

In light of Hobnob's earlier post: Might be interesting to see analysis of Dede's deposition coupled with analysis of the statements of Dede's cousin.

Anonymous said...

I would like to see this case compared to Rebecca's case. Mom also used past tense and appeared to be alibi building. How ate these two cases alike? Different?

Anonymous said...

Can you post the statements here?

Bonnie Blue said...

oops. I came back and now realize I didn't follow directions very well, did I?
1. She knows her daughter is dead- Past tense verbs used twice.
2. She needs an alibi- she was asked an open ended question & where you start is of special importance. This confirms to me that she needs an alibi. Why? Refer to #1.

Apple said...

"OT"
Mouse74,
I respect your response to Hobs.

Anonymous said...

http://bigcountryhomepage.com/images/Multi_Media/bigcountryhomepage/nxd_media/dox/pdf/2012_10/NEWLTR.pdf

here is the transcript of the letter from the woman in jail concerning hailey dunn.

MizzMarple said...

My apologies for the O/T, but here are the comments from the Anti-Dede Spicher website :

Interesting ...

Posting in 2 parts :


More from Tom, Dede's cousin!





Hey Fly, remember when the investigators came to Dede's parents house and asked Dede if they could search the property?
Remember what Dede said to them?
Let me refresh your memory, she said that she would love to help prove she is not involved and they could look around all they wanted.
What happened? Why is she not taking this opportunity to prove she is not involved and talk, tell the truth, and
just put this all behind her?
I know why, because she can't with out incriminating herself.
And any good defense attorney would advise a guilty client to do exactly what she said he told her to do during the deposition, Plead the fifth and make them prove it the hard way, it is her only chance.

I think Dede is telling the truth when she says she believes Terri didn't harm Kyron Horman, I believe this with every fiber of my being.
This is the strength in their armor, everyone has it backwards, therefore wrong.
Dede did the interview with People magazine because she only told the parts she could be truthful about without telling them what they wanted to hear.
Terri walks with confidence into a court room because she is telling the truth when she says she never physically harmed Kyron.
Terri is showing her confidence in the truth by telling us to find Kyron first, because she knows that even if the truth comes out, Dede is the one who is going to burn.
Terri is an accomplice, not the henchman, that is why Dede must stay and defend Terri at all costs to her self and her family's peace of mind. she will make everyone close to her suffer for her actions and take it with a shrug and an oh well of light heartedness acceptance because she is the one who knows every thing and has her life on the line. She will lie to anyone at this point.

What we have here is a very well planned crime, perpetrated by two very well organized women that have a keen eye for detail and an ability to follow a disciplined routine to accomplish any goal they set before themselves, all planned out over pillow talk.

This was a second attempt at a murder for hire in my opinion.
The first MFH went wrong when the landscaper Terri was messing around with declined to Kill Kaine for her. Terri is not one to settle for failure of accomplishing her goals, so she just made a different plan using the same approach.

MizzMarple said...

Interesting ... here's more from the Anti-Dede Spicher page on Facebook:

It would be great to have an analysis !

Posting in 2 parts :


More from Tom, Dede's cousin!


A second attempt was made by Terri, in my opinion, to accomplish her goals of getting rid of the child she blamed for her problems in her marriage, her daughters safety, and finances. It also accomplished the goal of hurting Kaine and Desiree all while setting herself up for a huge pay off from a wrongfully blamed and set up school district that would be potentially liable for millions in damages.

The job was accepted by someone desperate, someone who felt they were losing everything important to them, all her possessions and her lifestyle was in very real danger of being lost.
Dede was so distraught by this she had taken the time to plan her own suicide and get her things in order by closing accounts and organizing her personal things so as to make it easier for her family to deal with, she told me this herself in front of my sister and my own kids.

Dede had nothing to lose and everything to gain or keep by taking this chance.
If it worked, she would be able to keep her life in Portland, her condo and her lifestyle would be restored and she would not have to move back home with her parents whom she so eagerly left behind in Klamath Falls so many years ago.
If it failed, she would be where she is now anyway, at her parents house being taken care of and fully supported with out question or regard to anyone else.

Both Dede and Terri knew they would have a blindly loyal safety net in which to fall back on, and they are there now, being supported by the enablers that created the monsters that refuse to cooperate in the search for the truth as to what happened to Kyron Horman.

What I'm about to type here is my theory as to what happened on June 4 2010 to little Kyron Horman and the things that lead me into thinking so.

If you take offence to my opinion, feel free to leave your opinion, but to try and censor this from being told will only show that I'm close, and your too weak to face the controversy.

If you consider your self a legal eagle gossip forum fantasy lawyer, please, ask Dede if she would like to challenge me in a public court room. I won't be pleading about my fifth amendment rights.
Maybe someone from a forum Based On Crap might offer her services pro bono to her.

Lis said...

OT
MizzMarple, wow.

If what he is saying is true, somebody better be watching out for her suicide, she'll take all the answers with her and Terri will never talk.

Is the forum Based On Crap a euphemism for blink on crime by any chance? I just noticed the initials and wondered.

Lis said...

Every time we go over this case, it becomes more and more obvious, the two things the mother let us all know in this statement:

Her daughter is dead.

Her alibi is of prime importance to her.

Lis said...

John,

I don't analyse other peoples' comments here as a rule but if they are an anonymous that is attacking someone here, then I often do, at least to myself.

Lemon said...

OT
Apple,
I respect your response to Mouse74's response to Hobs.

shmi said...

1. Alibi building in the first sentence. "I was at work"

2. The mother did not go home and scour the house and neighborhood, looking for Sally. She went straight to the police station from work. I still don't think she has ever looked!

Sus said...

The mother's answers show that Sally is dead. She was murdered the evening of the supposed sleep-over and disposed of the next day.

The mother's first answer is all over the place...Sally WASNT allowed out at night, ESPECIALLY to walk, BUT it was only 4 or 5 blocks. The mother can't decide what to defend!

Past tense.

The boyfriend was the last person to see Sally. They were getting ready for bed (never went to bed) when the mother wondered or worried about where Sally was. This is where I believe the mother became involved in the cover up.

The next day the mother was further involved by going to work "again" and leaving her phone for her son to discover Sally missing. The boyfriend hid the body this day.

Anonymous said...

Who's supposed to be handing out diplomas around here?

Anonymous said...

keep in mind, the interview being analyzed was 6 days after the child was discovered missing and the mother had been being told by law enforcement all that same day that her child was dead. and the mother's alibi was also being questioned by media and public. i think the mother added details to a yes or no answer at this time because it was her opportunity to get her side of those thoughts out to the public. i think more is being read into this interview than it is worth. the statements made to the police officers on Tuesday are the ones that need to be analyzed.

Bonnie Blue said...

Anon 10:17am
Your comment has me thinking & I have to put myself in her shoes for a minute. I report my daughter missing, and LE not only tells me she is dead but that my alibi is false. (It would be hard to dispute my alibi since I work at a hospital & many people saw me at work all day).
Well, then, I would KNOW inside that I did nothing & I want my daughter found NOW, and ALIVE. Show me her body or she is not dead!
So I go on a national platform; I would scream what they told me & beg people to believe me that
1. I DIDN'T DO IT!
2. PLEASE HELP ME FIND MY DAUGHTER. You would have to tackle me & hold your hand over my mouth to shut me up as I would be hurried to get out as much as I could about what a great girl she was & never been in trouble, would never run away & help me SOMEBODY STOLE HER! HELP ME HELP ME SOMEBODY HELP ME!!!

Also keep in mind that she had SIX DAYS to prepare in her mind what she wanted to say, if given the chance.

She went on TV over & over speaking in circles. She KNEW she was under suspicion. She KNEW Shawn was also. Did you ever hear her scream I DIDN"T DO THIS, somebody PLEASE help me!!!

Not; Billie, what did Shawn say about lying to you concerning his job (almost 2 weeks after the fact & Shawn under HEAVY suspicion - she says, even by herself!):
answer: um, I haven't really had a chance to ask him yet.
Well, what did her little friend say, did they have plans that night?
answer: well. I never asked her. I just want to leave that to the investigators.
oh wait, the same ones you say were attacking you insisting you knew what happened to her and she was dead? Now suddenly you trust them?

Her goal in this interview was to portray herself as a good mother.
A normal innocent persons goal would have been to FIND THEIR MISSING CHILD RIGHT NOW!

Ask yourself, just in the first couple of weeks, go day by day and look for something that Billie or Shawn did to actually SEARCH for Hailey. Interviews were easy.
What would YOU do?
Where would you search?
Why don't you ask Jaycee Dugards Mother. Ask Shawn Hornbeck's Mother. Ask Somer's Mother (who was also portrayed in a bad light) Did that stop her from rallying the troops & getting out there? What about Whiney Herchel's Mom or Husband? He was under suspicion.
and like I said, most importantly, what would you give to find your daughter?

marcel elfers said...

1: past tense (has been discussed already)
2. the mother said "went missing on Monday" and while from her lens of perspective it was Tuesday.

Trigger said...

Past tense language when daughter is subject of verbal thought.

Alibi building right away

3:00 liars number

didn't care to interview anyone but boyfriend

FYI: I picked the perp from three possibles on a TV show when one suspect didn't ask how victim died.
My husband thinks that I have special powers (grin)

shmi said...

And he`s seen Sally. Sally was there.

I don't know why, but these two little sentences have always bugged me. Maybe I am just a grammer nazi.

Not good enough at SA to figure it out, except that a sentence that begins with "and" has missing information. Wondering if anyone has insight? Peter?

john said...

shmi said...
And he`s seen Sally. Sally was there.

I don't know why, but these two little sentences have always bugged me. Maybe I am just a grammer nazi.

SHmi,

I think what it is,is that he has already told us that he has seen,therfore there is no reason for him to repeat it.

By repeating it he is trying to convince us that she was there..

Hobnob said...

Anonymous said...
Who's supposed to be handing out diplomas around here?


Not me, i hamd out the coloring books and crayons.

Anonymous said...

1. She answers more than the question.
2. She doesn't answer the question.

Anna Asher

Seamus O Riley said...

Results:

In this short exercise, the mother of the missing child revealed:

1. The child is dead
2. The mother is in need of an alibi

The mother referenced her child in the past tense indicating that she knows or believes the child is dead.

On "how far", the mother goes beyond the question and tells us "when" the child went missing, which is not something that is known within the story.

The mother has guilty knowledge of the death of her daughter.

Peter

shmi said...

Thanks John,
So "Salley" was not there when he came home from work on Monday (we know he was not at work, he walked in, got a soda and left). She was not killed then.

She was killed the night before on Sunday. The mom says she went missing that day, Monday, but reported her missing on Tuesday. So Salley was missing for 2 days before the mom reported her missing?

That gives them a lot of time to hide her daughter's body. Poor Hailey-Salley.

Anonymous said...

Hobs, you are awesome! I hope someday to be able to perform SA with the clear logic and present the results so clearly as you do. I'm working in it, but I still tend to be too naive and simple!
--Shenanigan

Anonymous said...

Obviously this is talking about the Haleigh Dunn case and Billie Dunn. She chose the time 3 which is the most common number a liar would pick. She also says she got ready for bed but said nothing about going to sleep. She referred to Haleigh in the past tense as well as the "my house" comment was odd and among other things.

Anonymous said...

this is the story a haley dunn,,,,the boyfriedn did it and since the bones found by his mothers wasnt hers they need to check the pond,,,the mother knew that she was dead...that night,,they found evidence at the garbage dump..they just convict shawn till they have more evidence,,sad when a child is missing and killed and you dont find them soon enough for evidence.....but they will pay for it soon enough,,

Anonymous said...

my two points that stand out are:

"She went missing on Monday while I was at work"

How would she know when she went missing?

"I didn’t get worried when I hadn’t heard from Sally.

Sounds odd to not be worried and she states she was not worried more than once.

Contradicts herself "She wasn’t allowed out after dark especially to walk."

Anonymous said...

The two points are these:

Sally is probably dead due to the past tense in the first two lines.

The tragic event, or part of it, happened on Tuesday at around lunchtime since Tuesday was mentioned twice and her being at work "again".

navkat said...

I'm kind of new here--found you because of the Redwine case--but I'll take a crack at this:

THIS:
"Mother: She went missing on Monday while I was at work. My boyfriend - - he came home from work about 3:00 -- or he got to my house about 3:00. And he`s seen Sally. Sally was there. She told him, I`m running across the street to my dad`s house for a few minutes but I`m going Mary Beth`s, and I`m staying the night there. Let my mom know."

sounds like a really hokey way to say "My boyfriend was the last person who saw her. She was on her way out the door when he got home around 3. She told him she was going to her Dad's and then sleeping at Mary Beth's place.

Here's what I derive from that single paragraph:
1. The mom immediately removes herself from all foreknowledge by pushing the fact that Sally went missing while she was at work. I believe this is true. I believe when the terrible thing happened to Sally, Mom was at work and mom is pointing to that by saying so: "When the terrible thing happened, I was at work."

Next statement begins with "My boyfriend..." (Yep. What about him?) "He came home...er, I mean, he doesn't live with me, he has his own house, you see? I mean, I know he's a sex offender so I would never let him actually live in my house with my daughter, but, you know, we went to bed that night together..."

She's distancing herself from the boyfriend in a way. That's the impression I get. The boyfriend did something, Mom knew about it and covered for the boyfriend but it hasn't reeeeally sunk in yet that she's complicit.

navkat said...

Oh wow. Okay, reading comments and seeing this is already a known case. I looked it up and I wasn't too far off. Knowing that the boyfriend wasn't maintaining a separate address makes what the Mom said even WEIRDER.

I still stand by my two aforementioned points as being the ones that raised flags: 1. Mom told us that/when something terrible happened to her daughter and 2. She told us the boyfriend did it by letting us know he was the last to see her alive and trying to distance herself from him.

The only way you could have waved more of a flag would have been if they'd asked "What happened to Sally?" and she replied "You'll have to ask my boyfriend about it, that whole thing went down while I was at work."

Anonymous said...

Q: "How far did she have to go?" A: "Four to five blocks. It wasn't rare for Sally to ..." Stop right there. Nobody asked if it was or wasn't rare for Sally to do anything. Therefore Sally never set out walking that night in the first place.

"She wasn't..." Sally is dead.

"She went missing on Monday while I was at work." She went missing before Mom was at work. Mom wants us to think she had nothing whatsoever to do with Daughter's disappearance, so Mom inserts an alibi that no one asked her to give.

"3:00...3:00" Liar's number.

"So that evening..." What happened at 3:00 was the cause ("so"/"therefore"/"consequently", i.e. an inexorable result) of Mom not worrying when she hadn't heard from Sally, and therefore Mom is once again not responsible for what happened that evening. But then again, knowing that Sally was already dead, is another possible reason why Mom wouldn't have wondered where Sally was.

"...I left my cell phone at home at home for my kids to use..." More alibi building. Preemptively answers the question, which nobody asked, Why didn't you call Mary Beth's place that morning?

There's a lot more I can say, but I think (1) that Mom knows Sally is dead and (2) that Mom needs an alibi are two pretty big issues.

Allie Brigante said...

1. She used the past tense because she knows her daughter is already dead
2. She cares first about her alibi, where she teams up with her boyfriend using we implying he is covering for her and she's says he got home at 3 or around 3, 3 being the typical number used in made up facts and she refers to her daughter as she an impersonal pronoun to distance herself from her guilt over her death/disappearance where as she calls her son, her son.

Unknown said...

1. She gives entirely too much information for a simple question.

2. She gives way too many details leading up to the disappearance in an attempt to cover her tracks or remove any pre-conceived suspicion.

serendipit22 said...

(1) The Mother's story is deceitful/covering up
(2) Her boyfriend is involved in the death

(1) The Mother gives long rambling conflicting answers.
Story doesn't make this (as Judge Judy would say).

past sense "wasn't" instead of "isn't" (twice) indicates mother thinks girl is dead.
She only had to go 4 or 5 blocks etc makes no sense if
Sally didn't even make it across the street.

"My son called me back within a few minutes
and she said, mom, she said Sally never made it over there. She never spent the night." either 'she' is mixed with 'he' or everything after minutes needs to be quotes (then it makes sense).

Son, kids, Sally's Dad's names aren't mentioned.

Phone story doesn't make much sense:
How would son know "little girl" was Mary Beth?
Unlikely he would have Mary Beths number?
Phones often used in deceptive stories.

Why would Sally say BUT I am going to Mary Beths house?

Sentences with verbs or pronouns missing.

Many I's suggest nervousness.

(2) Boyfriend came home at Liars number:pm twice!

"And he`s seen Sally." should be He saw Sally. she says he's seen Sally before he got home. And = more to this story, most important sentence on the page.

"Sally was there." overemphasizing - indicating Sally wasn't there (alive at least).

There are many many more points.

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