Thursday, October 18, 2012

Unreliable Denials Coupled With Attacks

Always note when an unreliable denial is coupled with a diverting accusation.  It is critical for analysis. It weakens the unreliable denial even further. 

"I would never steal from my company.  You might steal, but not me."   This not only is an unreliable denial, but it is coupled with an attack that seeks to divert attention away from the subject. 

Lance Armstrong tweeted/ Facebook last week:

"Had a great coupla days in Portland working with my great partners Nike. Awesome to see the show of support on livestrongday. 16 yrs!

Did he know what was about to be announced?  

After stepping down from the Livestrong Foundation, and being dropped by other major sponsors, the biggest, Nike, announced that they are also dropping him. 

A "Reasoned Decision" has shown a full career of not only cheating, but ridiculing those who did not cheat (some refreshing portions in the account) and attacks on anyone who dared question him.   Read A Reasoned Decision

Nike statement:  “Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him. Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner.

Note "with" between people indicates distance. 

Trek followed shortly after:  Trek is disappointed by the findings and conclusions in the USADA report regarding Lance Armstrong,” a statement from the bike company reads. “Given the determinations of the report, Trek today is terminating our longterm relationship with Lance Armstrong.”

Looking at 10 years + of denials, Lance Armstrong did not issue any reliable denials.  A reliable denial has 3, and only 3, components:

1.  Use of the Pronoun, "I" must be in place.  If he were to say "We did not use..." it would not be reliable. 

2.  Past Tense verb.   "I did not take EPO..."  We often hear, "I would never take..." which is to avoid using the past tense verb.  Another common unreliable denial is "I don't use EPO" which uses present tense verb.  

3.  Event/Allegation Specific   "I did not take Cortisone pills" would be a very strong denial, but when the allegation is avoided, the denial is unreliable. "I did not use while training" would leave "use" open to speculation:  Use what?  

We see this in child abuse cases:  "I did not harm that child" with the word "harm" now open to interpretation (this is the most common word used by child molesters)

Armstrong avoided using a reliable denial but his denials also were accompanied by attacks. 

This leads us to a principle:

Diversion. 

We see this in "shoot the messenger" types where the message, itself, cannot be answered, so the person attempts to discredit the messenger.  This is commonly seen:

If one disagrees with the President, they are "racist."  This is used when the person wants to move the debate away from the issue at hand. 

I wondered last summer  if analysts avoided the Charlie Rogers hoax because they were concerned with claims of "homophobe" and other such insults. People read the analysis for what it was:  a disconnect between reality and language. 

I did not receive a single such insult during the weeks where her case was posted here. 

When the mother of a "missing" child, for example, sets upon herself to attack those who do not believe her, we see the same principle that Armstrong used:  Instead of answering the charges, allegations or beliefs, the response is with anger and personal attacks:  An attempt to divert attention. Not only note the need for diversion, but not the language employed in the attack.  

If your child was missing, would you have the time, energy, or even the slightest care to attack someone who did not believe you?  Parents of missing children who are innocent care for nothing but their missing child, and could not care less if someone doesn't believe them.  They are insulated by pain, and wrapped in single minded concern for their child and have nothing left for anyone else. 

Note unreliable denials coupled with diverting attacks.  This coupling strengthens the conclusion of "unreliable" denial, as well as highlighting the subject's need to change the topic. 

Lance Armstrong, in 2005, got a sponsor to agree to pay him $5 million dollars if he won the Tour.  He won the Tour but when evidence of doping arose, the company refused to pay.  Not only did Armstrong sue them, but he repeatedly insulted them.  The company had to pay the $5 million plus another $2.5 million in legal fees and interest.  

Today, they are preparing suit to recover the $7.5 million paid, plus the cost of legal fees and interest from 2005.  

It is just the tip of the ice berg. The lawyer said, "Armstrong said we were scum.  But he did not get away with it forever.  You owe us 7.5 million" and plans on recovering it. 

With Nike dropping him, his largest source of income is gone.  With loss  of income comes a loss of lawyers.  With a loss of lawyers, comes loss of his offensive lawsuits, and now will highlight a deficit in defensive lawsuits which he will face. Criminally, for his drug use, coercion, conspiracy, and other allegations, faces an estimated 130 years in prison if convicted. 

Deception.  Those who deceive have a reason to deceive.  Those who divert, have a reason to divert. 

Those who deceive and divert are especially noted. 

He is a good reminder that the unreliable denial is sometimes accompanied by a diverting personal attack. 

39 comments:

Jo said...

http://wixx.com/blogs/post/murphy/2012/oct/18/lance-armstrong-nike-commercial-what-he/

Anonymous said...

Thanks Jo. I watched the videos of Lance in training sessions until one crashed my computer, just hope it doesn't happen again. So now, to he!! with Lance's videos. I might not be able to fix my 'puter next time. What a joke he turned out to be, all that sweat for nothing. No wonder I was never interested in biking.

Just unbelievable. So MANY engineers, scientists and others, MANY of these people, spent so much time analyzing how Lance biked, how to make him and his bike lighter, faster, even his shirt had to be just so-so, each little and larger bike part and mechanism was taken apart and analyzied, some having to be adjusted making him go even faster; working endlessly on how to determine HOW he was winning above all others, AND ALL ALONG IT WAS THE DAMNED DOPE and nothing they accomplished!!! Lenghty, lengthy, periods of working at it in various locations around the country. They must feel like complete fools now, which, as it turns out, they were.

My my. What a great deceiver he was all this time. What a disgusting human being. This man has seven kids. Imagine how he must treat them at home; just considering how he treated that one daughter in front of the whole world, worse than a flea on a dog.

HE is the one who is lo-down scum, not that potential sponsor he called scum after he'd conned them out of 5M + another 2.5M, AND sued them after they wanted out of the contract upon learning he'd been accused of doping. AND won. Now they want it all back plus interest. Well, BULLY FOR THEM!

The only thing I'd like to know straight from the horses mouth is how the he!! he beat that raging cancer he had???! It COULDN'T have been the chemo and/or radiation, which are both poisonous to the healthy cells and are killers themselves, in addition to the cancer. What the HE!! was he taking? S'crew the scam of a useless foundation. Whatever it was, I WANT SOME OF IT!!!

Speak up Lance, which one of the dopes cured your cancer? If you have an ounce of truth left in your bones, which I highly doubt, then TELL us!

Anonymous said...

When I first read about the depth of his fabrications even going to the point of suing and ruining other peoples' lives who dared challenge him about his drug use my first thought I wonder how bad his 'battle with cancer' really was. Did he embellish it? Did he nurse it long after he was 'cured'? Did he have any cancer? This guy is such a good liar when was the last time he told the truth. When he was seven years old?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 6:11 I didn't read before I commented. I see I am not alone in wondering what other parts of this liar's life are built on lies. I thought I was being awfully hard on Lance Armstrong when my mind immediately lit on his battle with cancer. I can't help questioning if he pushed the cancer card. Armstrong started his own charity for cancer just like Casey Anthony's parents and brother did to find lost kids. Where did and do the proceeds go from these two upstanding group of individuals 'charities'?

Anonymous said...

Somewhat OT -- I assume you are referring to the Billie Dunn facebook show? I know there is a missing child. Whatever happened to poor Hailey is absolutely tragic. But the Billie Dunn circus is downright entertaining at this point. She seems to be enjoying herself! SMH....

Skeptical said...

I know he had 3 children with his wife Kristin and 2 with Anna Hansen. Who was the mother of the other 2? This many children from a man who said he stored his sperm before treatment for the testicular cancer?

nymima said...

A pathological narcissist. He is becoming stripped of his impulses to fraudulently victimize and deceive everyone around him and become more powerful because of it. It will be interesting to see what he morphs into now that won't be able to pull the wool over ANYONE'S eyes anymore and he'll be reduced to being the little man that he really is. Liar, cheat, skank, doper, druggie, low-life, bottom-feeder. Let me explain how I really feel......

Anonymous said...

Skeptical, I read it in an article just yesterday that Lance has seven children. Now, I don't know for the life of me where I read it, but since I only read news articles and not Scared Monkeys or that blog site published by Krista what's-her-name, can't even remember the name of her thread since she and her minions PO'ed me about insulting Dr. Keith Oblow and I haven't read it since; nor do I read any other blogs other than The Huffing Post and some financial publications, etc., also gave up on Eyes for Lies and for the most part Pat Brown also; so I have no idea where I read it other than it WAS a news article.

I will look back to yesterdays news covering Lance when I get to it and see who wrote that article. Maybe it's only that he married someone who already had two kids of her own and the writer failed to explain? I have no idea, just that the article said seven kids.

Yuk to storing his sperm. Yikes. Glad it wasn't me who went in for a little dose of it. C'rap, I don't even find him attractive. Wonder how they did? His stern facial expressions and steely eyes gives away something I don't like. I've known much more handsome men than Lance Armstrong! Sober, smart and intelligent too. Not stoned.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 6:37, once upon a time not so awfully long ago, I looked into starting up a non profit organization in the state I reside in. The reason I looked into this was because I could not find one single organization (OR foundation) that helps people with cancer pay their medical copays that they cannot pay. I had quite a few outstanding copay medical bills that I could not pay, and as you may know, if you don't pay, you don't play.

Since I could not find a single organization that actually helps people (adults) who have cancer with their medical costs or any other costs related to their cancer care and treatments, I dug deeper. I could NOT believe that there isn't a single non profit or foundation out there who actually will help us, other than Hospice but that is very limited and only helps for up to a miximum time limit at the very end of your care. If you outlive the care (something like three weeks?) you are put out of Hospice. To go where?

The Shriner's Burns Institute and The Shrine Childrens Hospital Care are the only two I know about who actually help to treat children with cancer or burns. (The Lions Club will provide eye exams and glasses for all those who can't afford them, no questions asked). Also, there is St Jude's in Memphis for children with cancer. Other than these progrqms, I could not find a single non profit who would actually help people with cancer in any way whatsoever. They scam donations claiming to "search for a cancer CURE".

I tell ya, with all the cancer research organizations and other non profits out there who are raking in BILLIONS of dollars, it was a shock to my system not to be able to find even one who would help. I lost count of how many I contacted.

So I dug further, thinking I might start a non profit myself. It is very easy to do. You can download the requirements and application in the your state. It is very inexpensive and simple to file the application. You state your mission purpose. You are required to have a board of director and two additional directors, one appointed to take your place should you become incapacitated or withdraw. (Some large foundations have many board members). You file a quarterly report with your state, stating your incoming donations for the previous quarter, expenditures and activities.

You are allowed to pay yourself a large salary (hefty percentage) out of the donations, (The Anthonys!) as well as paying salaries to the other members of the board. The non profit donations pays all your (and their) expenses, automobile, travel, office, office expenses, advertising, other employees and many more charge offs. Whatever is left must be itemized stating what you did with it. That's pretty much it! I tell ya, it is one smooth operation, with no real accountability and wide open for fraud and scamming. It is VERY easy to do. No, I did not start one.

Dee said...

OT - I was searching to see if anything was ever found out about the fate of Chloie Leverette and Gage Daniel, the children missing after the fire at their grandparents home. I found this - http://www.t-g.com/story/1905083.html Although ATF did find some more bone fragments and take them to be tested, I'm afraid their fate may never be known. So sad for the family remaining to not know.

Anonymous said...

OT:

Peter, is it possible for you do analysis on the Whitney Heicher disappearance from the husband's limited comments in the ABC Online article below? Thanks.


Whitney Heichel: Police Search Wooded Area for Missing Oregon Woman

By SHARDE MILLER
Oct. 18, 2012

Authorities used red tape to mark where they found broken glass and tire marks in a heavily wooded area in Gresham, Ore., as part of their search for a Starbucks employee who disappeared on her way to work. It's unclear whether they found any significant clues.

Investigators searched the park in Clackamas County and also Larch Mountain Wednesday in connection to the disappearance of Whitney Heichel, 21. She was last seen Tuesday when she kissed her husband goodbye and left for work at Starbucks, a five-minute drive from her home.

Gresham police have called Heichel's disappearance "suspicious" and fear they are in a race against time to find her.

"Right now we have 24 detectives working on it," Gresham Police Department spokesman Lt. Claudio Grandjean said. "We want to be able to jump on leads we have right away. The colder those leads get, the more difficult it becomes."

Of the park findings, he said, "I'm not prepared to say that's the broken glass that came from her vehicle, although it's absolutely possible."

Heichel's black Ford Explorer was found abandoned in a Walmart parking lot hours after her disappearance. The passenger side window had been shattered.

Police aren't saying what brought them to search the wooded area.

Heichel's husband, Clint, has said she kissed him goodbye and left for her job just before 7 a.m.

"She got ready, did her normal thing and I kind of woke up and said, 'Bye. I'll see you when you get home,'" Clint Heichel told ABC News' Portland affiliate, KATU-TV, Wednesday.

Heichel reported his wife was missing at 9:56 a.m. after her supervisor alerted him that she did not show up for work.
"I called her several times," he said. "I texted her several times and then actually at about 9:30ish, her phone got to the point where you would call and it went straight to voicemail."

Police say surveillance cameras recorded her vehicle pulling into a Shell gas station around 9 a.m. and her ATM card was used.
Her husband said bank records show the same card was used at another gas station minutes later, but police have not confirmed that.

"One at 9:22 and then one at about 9:30, which was kind of odd, both for gas eight minutes apart," Heichel said.
Police spokesman Grandjean said, "The video is inconclusive in terms of being able to tell who's in the vehicle but we can tell it's the vehicle and we know through bank records it's the car."

Police have not yet released the surveillance video, but they plan on doing a briefing later this morning, according to KATU.
"Not having her around is just overwhelming and it's hit met like a ton of bricks," Heichel said.

ABC News' Alyssa Newcomb contributed to this report.

Periwinkle Paisley said...

I was just looking at that Anon 12:14. It's hard to tell what exactly he said since we don't hear the questions and there are only sound bites but I'd say he's definitely deceptive.

This particular statement indicates deception: "She got ready...her normal thing...um...got up and just kissed me goodbye. And I kind of woke up and said, "Yeah, bye, I'll see you when you get home."

The sequence of events is out of order. According to the husband She got ready, then she got up, then she kissed him, then he woke and said 'yeah, bye..." He is not speaking from a true memory.
He does not say her name once in any of the clips I've seen.
"Her normal thing" when people use the word normal it means there was a 'not normal.' What was it?
"...got up and just kissed me goodbye" When posture is mentioned it indicates tension. When a display of affection is mentioned, unasked for, it is an indication of tension in the relationship. We don't know that he wasn't asked 'What was the last thing she did?' but if he wasn't this indicates tension in the relationship. He needs people to see his relationship with his wife as loving. When the word 'just' is used it's because the speaker wants to reduce the importance of that action. She just kissed him. What else did she do? Add the smirky face that he shows right before he "breaks into tears" and I'd be looking at him very closely if I were LE.

Anonymous said...

I don't really care about Billie Jean's face book, but just in case I find the time one of these days I might read up on her jibberish. Is she still messing with Shawn or still denying it? How's she listed, what's the link, Anon @6:38 am?

The sad thing is, I'm sure sweet Hailey loves her still, being the beautiful angel she now is. She probably knows now where Bille and Shawn are headed, cries out and prays for her mother's soul at the throne of mercy day and night. It could be that way, you know.

Anonymous said...

This is very sad Dee. I too have wondered what happened to those children. It wouldn't be the first time a killer(s) destroyed the family to get the children he/they wanted. It sickens me to think of such a horrible, grotesque and painful way to die. We never heard much about the extended family, did we?

Were I an investigator on this case, I most certainly would look at all family members including any and all friends they might have brought to the house, also distantly related ones and neighbors and their friends. This could have been entirely drug related unless the children were taken by a killer pedophile, and probably that too is drug related and done by someone who had been to that house.

Anonymous said...

Billie Jean Dunn is stating all over facebook that Hailey is coming home because she has a p.i. to work on Hailey's case. Yet, Billie still cannot tell the truth. Billie just met with the p.i. last night at 7pm and she is now saying the leads they already have are astounding! Isn't that interesting that everyone else who has been looking for Hailey for almost 2 years has nothing, including LE and now after speaking to the p.i. for a few hours, Hailey is close to coming home?

Also, Billie posted on one of the Facebook groups that the p.i. is going to find Hailey but also will look at one other person, just for fun. FUN? She equates fun with this whole situation? I hope that this p.i. can find Hailey. I also hope he can see thru Billie's lies, deception.

http://www.cbs7.com/news/details.asp?ID=38159

Private Investigator Hired in Hailey Dunn Case 10/18/12

CBS7 News
October 18, 2012

A private investigator out of Houston has been hired to take on the search for missing Colorado City teenager Hailey Dunn.

Mac Sanford is said to be working pro-bono and according to Hope For Hailey Facebook page, he met with Hailey's mother, Billie Dunn, yesterday.

Hailey Dunn went missing on December 27, 2010 in Colorado City.

Despite massive searches over the years, no signs of her have been found.

Billie Dunn has since moved away from the area and her boyfriend Shawn Atkins is still the only named suspect in Hailey's disappearance.

Comments under the article:


Billie Jean Ostrander
I believe we are close to finding Hailey & bringing her home. Mac is an amazingly dedicated man. the info & leads we already have are astounding. thank u for your continued prayers & support. I will let everyone when the welcome home party is.
Reply · 5 · Like · Follow Post · 29 minutes ago

Jude Fackelman
YAY!!!! Prayers!
Reply · 4 · Like · 28 minutes ago

Stacie Collins Campbell · Blinn/Lamar Unv.
As always CBS7 we appreciate any and every bit of coverage you give to Hailey. We are thrilled that Billie hired Mac and he is already working diligently with her to find Hailey.
Reply · 4 · Like · Follow Post · 48 minutes ago

Angelina Fulgora Mitchell · Denver, Colorado
Where does HIRE and Probono mean the same thing?
Reply · 2 · Like · Follow Post · 5 hours ago

Diana Capen West · Top Commenter · Secretary at Precision Pressure Data
I believe if you select an attorney to work for you, you "hired" him...but, pro bono just means he is working for no pay.
Reply · 4 · Like · 5 hours ago
Angelina Fulgora Mitchell · Denver, Colorado
Point made. If the media is going to do a report, maybe they should educate himself with the facts. We are please to have Mac working for Hailey. Bring Hailey home.Your welcome to listen to Billie tonight tell what she has learned so far.http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hailey_dunn_related_news_texas
Reply · Like · 5 hours ago

Billie Jones · Top Commenter · Odessa College
Praying the family will be reunited with Hailey.poor child.What. took so long? This whole world has gone crazy!
Reply · 1 · Like · Follow Post · 5 hours ago

Clint Smith · Top Commenter · St. Phillips College, San Antonio, TX
Go to Haleys page..View Videos..https://www.facebook.com/HaileyDunnKidnappedInTexas... The video is Produced and posted by none other than Kyle Guthrie the same as the one indicted and arrested in Big Spring for solicitation of a minor what is his interest in young girls and missing young girls at that..The videos helped him land his job as weatherman (http://permianbasin360.com/fulltext?nxd_id=190092)...Guthrie(Big Spring) Atkins(Big Spring) any connection, same age group..Even tried to take his own life while in custody..Maybe more to the story... Guthrie Oil co has lots of land around Big Spring...Sorry just venting...Maybe Mr Sanford will read this.
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 4 hours ago

Angelina Fulgora Mitchell · Denver, Colorado
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hailey_dunn_related_news_texas
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 5 hours ago

Hobnob said...

She has nothing on the gruesome twosome, better known as kate and gerry mccann.
They got a multi million pound sterling fund, freebie trips round the world and meeting the Pope. They did a mockumentary (to trash the Lead detective's one) which was supposed to be about the night Maddie vanished,instead it turned into a lovefest about the mccanns and insult flinging of the PJ and the actress who played kate was cut completely from it as in gerry's words "her story was unbelievable". The book was written to supposedly get kate's version of the truth out and to get money for the fund, there has also been discussion about a movie as well.
They also from the get go hired defence lawyers, extradition lawyers and will sue or threaten to sue anyone who disagrees with their version of events.
They sued several papers and one (daily express) settled out of court for over half a million.
They are currently being sued by Goncalo Amaral as they tried to ban his book (they won round 1 and lost when he appealed, i don't know if they have yet returned the 10,000 confiscated books)and Pat brown when they managed to get amazon to take her E book off their site by claiming it was defamatory even though she made no claims only stated the facts.
They are currently having scotland yard investigating the case at a cost of millions (they had gov't help from the labor gov't when it was in power controlling the media etc and now the conservative gov't to have a review of the case) they don't want it reopened as that would mean them being made arguidos (POI) as soon as they refused to answer a question (kate still has 48 she refused to answer) Witness must tell the truth or face jail, arguidos can lie and refuse to answer questions so either the PJ would make them arguidos or they would make themselves arguidos.
They also refused to do a reconstruction (via their pals) as it wouldn't be televised and would be unhelpful.(as arguidos they were obliged to, their pals weren't and if the pals refused the PJ wouldn't be able to do one)
The PJ have said they will reopen the case when they get new and compelling evidence (the 48 questions or the reconstruction would work, psychic leads do not count.
The mccanns want a review only, they refused the option of keeping the case open when they were told it was being shelved.
They eventually hired private eyes all of whom were useless, the first group wwere involved in drug dealing and specialised in money laundering ( not finding people) others were non existent, they refused to sue halligen for fraud and stealing 500,000 from the fundand their curent bunch can't even ask basic questions, heck edgar can't even find his own butt his partner seems to have vanished.

Anonymous said...

Based on following Peter's principals of statement analysis, I too have some questions about the possibility of deception by this hubby. Several things stand out.

Also why she did not try to escape from the car when it showed up at two service stations that morning just minutes apart, unless she was restrained and could not get out, or unless it was her hubby (or someone else) driving the car and she had no idea what was about to happen. Or was she driving the car with someone else inside or going off to meet someone? I can see the possibility of going to two stations if the pump didn't work at the first one or if it wouldn't accept the ATM card.

It wasn't until later that the car was located with a window smashed out so it's possible she was in the car at the time it drove up to the gasoline pumps, possibly still alive.

Does the hubby have some missing time unaccounted for from the time he says she left for work until the times stamped at the ATM's? Also, where was she the night before and the wee hours of the morning? Who last saw her?

Anonymous said...

My post above was in response to Anon @12:14 and Periwinkle @2:05.

Does not relate to Billie Jean. Nothing that freak says or does surprises me.

Skeptical said...

I was not conscious of how much diversion tactics are used in conversation until reading the above article. I decided to pay more attention today and was amazed how much they are used, not only when someone wants to deceive, but also in ordinary everyday conversations. When a topic of conversation is brought up that makes someone uncomfortable, it is quickly changed. From now on, listening to people talk is going to be like trying to unring a bell.

Nicole said...

So if they had said "we've terminated 'his' contract," that would mean they didn't show distancing?

Anonymous said...

why would an innocent person be willing to hire a PI, wouldn't they be afraid he would uncover the truth & find out it was them? just curious ...it just doesn't make sense to me. Also, BD and her FB page. I think Peter explained that it's their love of self & arrogance that people will believe them, I think? Well, as far as Billie's FB page, there are a few good questions on there ... time will tell whether she answers them or not as she promises (all in order to find her daughter). So, let's see if that is truly her intent. I did learn from here if she doesn't answer the question, then she's answered the question! So I am anxious to see that part of the show! She says she wants attention, boy is she gettin' it!

As far as the McCann's, I don't know what to say. All of these sickening tragedies that never seem to have resolution. I am starting to lose faith in humankind altogether - as sad as that is.

CanadianGirl said...

They were all doping so that means that Lance was still the best cyclist in the game. That being said, he really didn't need to cheat, he could have won by continuing to train hard and clean; he would have still beat the others.
He must have really thought that the drugs/cheating were the only way for him to win, too bad because he could have and would have been a clean winner.

Seamus O Riley said...

Canadiangirl,

I had believed the same thing for a very long time.

It is not true.

Read the report. Learn who Lance targeted with special vengeance: clean riders.

Peter

Anonymous said...

if you believe billie dunn 'hired' a private investiagtor you are in the wrong blog

she couldnt even trade what she got for a private investigator she looks 20 years older than she is and she does not have the money for a PI

Anonymous said...

Wow wow wow!

Peter is up early and has removed the robot thingie that we had to go through to make a post. Thank you thank you thank you Peter!!

Have a grand day!

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 5:00 a.m., who can say what Billie has done regarding hiring a PI. However, it is entirely possible that she has "hired" a PI. To "hire" a PI or an atty, all one has to do is sign an agreement, it could be for pay or for pro bono with no pay.

Without a written agreement, one does not work for you in any official capacity. A pro bono agreement would not be in exchange for sex or anything else.

It is free representation but usually does include actual costs expended by the atty or PI. There are many attys and PIs who will work pro bono for the publicity, hoping to bring in the big fish later on.

This is initially what Baez did in his representation of Casey, although he did receive some court allocated funds later on for misc expenses, etc. Probably padded, and I wouldn't blame him if he did pad the pro bono (costs only) bill. God knows he had a lot uv 'em.

Anonymous said...

Atty @ 8:33 p.m., Someone like Billie Dunn would be the perfect pathological, sociopathic, liar who would hire a PI and would believe with all her heart that he is 1200% in her corner.

She is so convinced in her arrogance and self-confidence that she can deceive ANYONE without batting an eye that she believes she has already won and none can or dare uproot her.

I just hope this is an honest man who will stand firm in his integrity, and is sharp enough that he actually WILL expose the real Billie Jean Dunn. Maybe in the process he will find Hailey?

Anonymous said...

Peter, ref your post @ 4:24 a.m., Lance Armstrong and Billie Jean Dunn proves to us repeatedly that "the best defense is a good offense". Ever hear that one? So true. THIS is how they operate. Be damned with what they did, be damned with their lies; the focus becomes you, what YOU did, not them.

I will remember forever your lesson concerning deflecting deception in another direction, that being to find something against the one who has questioned them and focus on THAT, thereby turning the focus off themselves.

I have personally seen this in practice once before. It is unbelievable and almost indescribable how they operate.

Anonymous said...

Skeptical, re your post from 9:39 a.m. yesterday; I have googled 'How many children does Lance Armstrong have' and all I can find are articles stating that he has five kids, just like you said. Three by one wife and two by the other wife.

Nowhere do I read that he ever had seven kids. I can only guess that the writer of the news article I read was confused when saying this, as the only "seven" I can find is in making reference to his seven Tour de France wins.

Sorry I misquoted someone else without verification.

Anonymous said...

Hobnob, I believe that everything you say about the Mc Canns is true and much more too numerous to go into. I believe they had already set up little Maddie's death and got their stories straight before they went out to dinner.

However, no matter exactly when she died, or what they say or coerce others into saying and doing; if nothing else, I always come back to the freshly laundered curtains, and in particular the decomp that was found by the human decomp sniffer dogs behind the couch and in the wheel boot of the rental car they were driving a month later.

They can lie and deny, twist and turn all they want too. The dogs already exposed them, if not the curtains. They, or one of them, killed that child or either they know and were in conspiricy with the one who did.

What amazes me is the many steps they have taken to cover and hide their guilt and how they have gotten away with it this long and apparently will continue too, when so many are aware and acknowledge what they did.

I find it very hard to believe that they have outsmarted so many really intelligent people with their blatant lies and deceptions, but obviously they have.

BostonLady said...

Billie Dunn was on most of the local texas news reports last night. She is exclaiming they are close to bringing Hailey home in one breath and in the next, the p.i. is stating this will take some time. Which is it?

This p.i. has tied the missing Ali Lowitzer from Texas to the same murderer who killed two women, one just recently in Louisiana, Mickie S. He did this running license plates. The murderer admitted killing two women in order to get a plea deal. The tie to Ali Lowitzer has not been proven yet but I read that if it is, this murderer could be put to death in Texas, regardless of the deal he made with Louisiana.

Ali Lowitzer's case is very different from Hailey Dunn. Ali went missing on her way to pick up her first paycheck from a Burger Barn, 3 doors down from where she lived. She never made it. But unlike Hailey's case, she wasn't going to a sleep over with a friend that didn't even know she was coming. Ali's parents didn't go buy drugs that night, like Billie & Shawn. Ali's parents started to look for her right away and didn't wait until 24 hours later, and not check on her to make sure she made it to the sleepover as Billie did. Because Billie wasn't worried - even though she said she told Hailey not to leave the house that day.

I wont' go on and on. The facts are there. The cases are not close. I do hope the p.i. can find some new leads but 2 years later and many different agencies involved have been unable to.

Anonymous said...

Look, it's the same PI for Ali's case that just took on Billie "pro bono":
http://www.katc.com/news/p-i-in-lowitzer-case-says-it-s-just-too-coincidential-/

Anonymous said...

OOOuch! Some of Lance's foundation donors are demandig their money back!!!!! he he..

The foundation claims they have helped 28M Americans. IS THAT A FACT? Show me your list.

Their big deal (another one run amuck!) is cancer research, claiming to seek a cure for cancer; when it is to their advantage NOT to find a cure for cancer! Who in their right mind would keep plowing money into these causes that are looking out for THEMSELVES? Do people EVER wake up?

Like I said; show me the LIST of anyone who has (or had) cancer that they've actually helped.

Anonymous said...

Here's a good example I saw on FB from last night:


Jenny: Hey Shawn where is Hailey? Just answer that ONE question and trust me we won't ask you anything else....My word. Then you can quit getting all crazy and stuff. Well crazier anyways
Shawn: Hey Jenny why dont you stick your head in a fire and tell me if you see hell!!
Jenny: Why didn't LE charge your mom with all that sick dtuf on that computer since it was in your moms house? Or charge everyone that had access to it?
Billie people are gonna speak their opinions on this and to be shut down or dismissed for it is actually disrespectful. For Shawn to get on here and talk like he is to others really proves people right on what "type" of person he is. But to what kinda ground?
Shawn: One last thing Billie...and Im terribly sorry. But Jenny why dont you stick your head up your ass and see if it fits you nasty hooker
.....
Jenny: Shawn you don't take someone mouthing you very well. Anyone knows how big of an attitude and a mouth a 15 year old could have....did she say the wrong things to piss you off shawn? Did you snap at her like you have all along this thread?
Shawn: You brought this on your self Jenny..for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So, you need to learn your place and stop trying to be a comedian because you are lame as ((beep)) **I edited that out**

the thread goes on. It proves nothing but it sure is comical. He goes on to threaten any who upset Billie and said to "heave" his warning - HAHA

Shawn: One last thing I do want to clear up..this stems back a while. I do care about Hailey in my own special way even tho she isn't my biological daughter. That doesn't mean I care about her any less!!!!!!!! And yes I miss Hailey very much and all I hope for is that Her, David, Billie and Clint are reunited..along with the rest of Hailey's family. Goodnite.

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