Saturday, June 7, 2014

Kyron Horman: Terri And Failed Three Polygraphs








When a child goes missing, the Polygraph test is not complex.  A nervous person will show nervous reactions on any questions, including address and telephone number. 
It is the jump, or change, that is noted.  
Statement Analysis has indicated Terri Horman for deception in the disappearance of 7 year old Kyron Horman.  A single word from her could allow Desiree Young to begin to have closure.  


Desiree Young, whose son Kyron Horman vanished from a Portland school four years ago and has never been seen since, says the boy's stepmother Terri Horman failed three lengthy polygraph tests when questioned by investigators about the boy's disappearance.
Terri Horman quickly became a focus of the investigation into Kyron Horman's case, but police have still not made any arrests since starting the search for Kyron Horman on June 4, 2010.
Desiree Young, Kyron Horman's biological mother, said her mission is to keep the pressure on Terri Horman by sharing new details about the case, and she shared these new details without the blessing of investigators.
"They might be upset with me. And you know, I would like them to sit in my shoes and walk the walk and be here four years later," she said.
In the days following the 2010 disappearance of the 7-year-old boy after a school science fair, both sets of Kyron Horman's parents took polygraph tests.
Young said her polygraph session started with these four questions:
  • Do you know where Kyron Horman is?
  • Were you with Kyron after 8:45 in the morning?
  • Do you have direct involvement or any indirect knowledge of Kyron's kidnapping?
  • And again, do you know where Kyron Horman is?
Young said Terri Horman "failed a lot of questions that they asked her," and that she failed three polygraph tests, each nearly 10 hours long.
"She was saying what her response was and trying to justify what her timeline was and trying to justify why she failed that question," Young said. "That is a glaring example of someone who's guilty."
Terri Horman still lives with her parents in Roseburg. A flier bearing Kyron Horman's face is posted in the front yard.
No one answered the door at the home when a FOX 12 reporter attempted to make contact with her.
Young and her supporters have visited the home to protest Terri Horman's continued silence.
"She still hasn't told us where she was that day and why she's unaccounted for for about two hours of time," she said.
Young is also holding car wash fundraisers to pay for independent searchers like one that took place last fall. She knows resources are stretched thin, but she's frustrated with Multnomah County investigators.
She claimed the sheriff's office turned away offers for outside help, but a sheriff's office spokesman said that's not true.
"When you get egos involved and you start not accepting help from other agencies because your ego might get bruised if they solve the case, you're shooting yourself in the foot," Young said.
Young said four years without answers and without her son have been a nightmare, and she refuses to be in this same position in another four years.
"They're not going to prosecute Terri until they find Kyron. And that's why it's my mission. I am going to find answers. I am going to find Kyron if I have to do it myself," she said.
Terri Horman has never been charged in the case or even called an official suspect.
Multnomah County officials said Kyron Horman's case is still active and they cannot comment on it.
Copyright 2014 KPTV-KPDX Broadcasting Corporation. All rights reserved.

65 comments:

Eee said...

Peter, didn't you mean to say "Terri Horman Failed Three Polygraphs" or "Desiree Young says Terri Horman Failed Three Polygraphs" instead?

Wow, at first I thought this was a bombshell.

Anonymous said...

I think this case was a stranger abduction. I think that it would have been ludicrous for Terri to bring Kyron to a public place where he is well-known (his school) in order to kidnap him where she could have easily been seen by many people.

Anonymous said...

Also, why is there a picture of Mark Redwine?

Anonymous said...

She brought him to school to look at the science fair, and then they went to get something out of the truck. She shoved him into the back and took off with him.

It was that easy.

Anonymous said...

Everything Terri has done since the abduction points to her guilt. No innocent person would be in her situation.

~mj said...

Terri is hiding something. Anyone who believes otherwise chooses to remain ignorant.

Further, the conversation regarding whether it was wise to take Kyron from the science fair has been beaten to a pulp, those who still believe it to be a folly to attempt something like that there clearly has never been to an elementary school's science fair.

Regardless, the poor child remains missing. If Terri is as innocent as she would have us believe, then there should be no problems moving forward in her visitations with her daughter....oh, that's right, she sits behind the 5th, at the loss of her own daughter. Definitely innocent.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:35,
What I find strange is that noone saw them leaving together.
Also, Terri emailed the teacher asking when she should pick up Kyron's science project. Why would she do that? Why would she draw attention to him being absent if she was the kidnapper?
Also, why was Kaine home at the time Kyron's bus would have been dropping him off and why did he go to the busstop? Did Terri ask him to come home? Why did he happen to be home?

Anonymous said...

Terri wanted him gone so she made it happen. She hated him

sidewalk super said...

Is terri still busy twittering out her crotch shots hoping to meet more human dreck ?

Eventually she will falter.
I only hope Desiree will be there.

elf said...

How is it strange that no one saw Terry leave with kyron? Have you ever dropped a kid off at school? On an average day, no irregular activities, morning drop off is chaotic at most elementary schools. Parents, kids, teachers, cars, and busses everywhere. Its hectic. Who would really notice if Terry quietly told kyron to come back out to the truck? Parents that were there were probably paying attention to their own kids, the teachers would be supervising children without their parents and performing their daily duties in addition to directing parents and students to the area of the science fair. Who would notice really in all that chaos?
I notice that Desirees language is different from Billie Dunns, Justin Dipietro, Mark Redwine, Erica Lewis, etc. Desiree is going to find kyron. She didn't say she would search forever or that she's sure kyron is safe somewhere and is just waiting for him to be brought home- she's going to find kyron even if she has to do it herself.
Sometimes I think its easier to read and analyze the guilty rather than the innocent. Anytime I read what grieving mother's say it breaks my heart :( at least I can be angry at the guilty. I can't do a dang thing to help the innocent parents...

Anonymous said...

typical sloppy work,Peter. check out your headline. The amount of misinformation you spread is staggering

Anonymous said...

Elf,
Anyone who knew Terri and/or Kyron would notice either leaving. ALSO, I believe many who did not know either personally would have noticed Terri and Kyron leaving bc of Terri's flaming red hair.
My opinion is it was a stranger abduction.
I am not saying Terri is a good person or even a decent person, I'm just saying I believe this case was a stranger abduction. If noone saw Kyron allegedly leaving with Terri, then, disturbingly, it would have been just as easy for a stranger to walk out the door with him.
What about the info that Kyron said he was going to go look at a cool, electric science project on another floor? That screams stranger abduction!
Don't even get me started on Kaine. This guy may be one of the most morally bankrupt men ever, unless cheating on your very ill wife with her caretaker and taking custody of her kid (Kyron) counts for "upstanding behavior"! I dont believe a word out of Kaine's mouth! Someone who has shown himself to be incredibly conniving and dishonest is now, suddenly, honest. Yep. OK.

elf said...

Anon 1103: I appreciate your view point. I disagree. A stranger would have been noticed way before a mom and kid whom people are familiar with. Add the normal hustle and bustle to the excitement of the science fair, parents are paying attention to their own kids, talking to other parents and teachers, well if you have kids you'd know how it is.
Terry has indicated for deception regarding kyron. Terry is a grown up who said she hated a little kid. And while your bashing kaine for cheating and lying why not include Terry in that? She broke the damn code-- she slept with her friends husband.

~mj said...

The thing that frightens me is the persistence by some that Terri could not have taken Kyron at the fair. This is why: with the mental block that, that isn't feasible, some of those people are the very people questioned by police as to whether they saw Terri and Kyron together, if they are already certain a person wouldn't dare attempt that in such a public setting, is their memory of the event being effected by the limitation they applied? We couldn't possibly know.

I do not expect anyone to agree that Terri is guilty, that is not proven, but I do expect that we release preconceived ideas based on what we think makes sense. Hatred for a child doesn't make sense. Disappearing a child doesn't make sense. Therefore we are not dealing with what makes sense. We are dealing with a crime. Based on that, something happened at the school that day.

I personally know that it would be incredibly difficult to know for sure whether Terri and Kyron left together that day, even if witnesses saw them together or saw them separately. The chaos at an event like that would poke too many holes in any eye witnesses recall, regardless if they did or did not see them leave together. Short of someone standing only feet away and seeing Terri and Kyron get into the truck and drive away, there are just too many variables. So the next logical step is to look at what happened after the fair.

That's when Terri's alibi starts to fall apart. And anyone wanting to hang their investigative hat on, "it doesn't make sense to do it at the fair" can rest assure that they will never find the truth when they limit the possibilities.

Anonymous said...

Elf, I'll respond w more later when I have more time.
However, any man who cheats on his severely ill bedridden wife with her friend/caregiver and then takes her baby (Kyron) is lower than the lowest scum. I wouldnt believe him if he told me the sun was up.

Nea T said...

She failed more than one polygraph, she hated Kyron, and she has accepted giving her parental rights of her daughter. She would rather hide quietly holding her secrets rather than fighting to get visitations with her daughter. Hmmmm that sounds guilty.

S + K Mum said...

I admire Desiree so much. I pray she finds her boy. Well done to her and everyone who is supporting her through this awful ordeal.

Anonymous said...

Why are people saying Terri hated Kyron? Just asking bc I was not aware of that piece of evidence.

Also, I would not include any maneuverings of Kaine's as well as responses to Kaine's maneuverings as evidence of a person's guilt. Kaine has shown himself to be morally bankrupt. It disgusts me how he treated Desiree, despicable, he cheated on her with her caretaker while she was pregnant and then he took Kyron from Desiree!!! What kind of man takes a baby from his mother?! That's disgusting!!! On a cruelty scale of 1 to 10, I would say Kaine's actions towards Desiree were a 10. I don't consider Kaine's maneuverings or reactions to his maneuverings to be evidence of Terri's alleged guilt.

Anonymous said...

Kaine's actions towards Desiree were DIABOLICAL!!!
Him and his wife Desiree were having a baby, his wife gets very ill, so what does Kaine do? Does he take care of his wife and help nurture the health of his unborn son? NO!!! He has sex with her caretaker right under her nose, RIGHT UNDER HIS SICK PREGNANT WIFE'S nose, leaves her for the other woman, and takes her baby. WHAT A LOSER. Oh, but I guess he just couldn't help himself huh?! Studly Kaine has his "needs" and Terri was just so irrestible!

~mj said...

Agreed. Morally speaking Kaine leaves much to be desired. As such, LE should scrutinize him regarding Kyron's disappearance. Which they did and he did not stand out criminally. (Thus far anyways, as we do not yet have a conclusion to this matter)

Terri however, is also morally disgusting and she leaves leaps and bounds open on a criminal level. Therefore the spot light tends to fall on her, for good reason. If she is innocent of wrong doing, speak up, clear the air and let LE move on from her. Yet she won't, that is very telling.

Anonymous said...

MJ, Kaine is very low morally.
Didn't Desiree want Kyron to come live with her and Kaine said "no"?
Has Terri not spoken up at all or just not to Kaine within his legal maneuverings?

~mj said...

Anon@ 5:14 -Yes, Kaine is morally a sewer rat. I completely agree. When Terri failed her poly's she stopped cooperating and stood behind the 5th in all legal aspgets. Which then bled over to the divorce proceedings, including the alleged murder-for-hire plot against Kaine. Which, mind you there was enough evidence there for Kaine to obtain the original restraining order, her silence kept it all in place, and now nearly 4 years later, she can start the process to contact her daughter (as long as the child can tolerate it) via cards. All she has to do is answer LE's questions and this all goes away, but she stands resolute behind the 5th- self incriminating... ironically, is quite incriminating.

Anonymous said...

mj, which of Terri's actions or inactions specifically was/is keeping her from seeing her daughter?
In other words, Who would Terri have needed to "talk" to to see her daughter?
Also, I just googled an interview with Kaine, and, I find it very odd Kaine was estimating that the search for Kyron would take "2, 3 or 4 years".
Statement analysis has said those who say they "will search forever" are guilty.
What does statement analysis say about a parent who "predicts" how long the search will take?
Is there not a natural instinct in a parent to hope beyond hope that their missing child will be found safely THAT VERY DAY?!?!
This is not the 1st oddity I've seen in Kaine Horman statements.

Anonymous said...

When Terri's deception encompassing her movements on the morning his son went missing is considered ... when official statements regarding Terri being the last known person to be seen with his son is considered and ... when emails originating from Terri citing a severe hatred for his son is considered ... I cannot fault Kaine in his efforts to prevent Terri from having contact with Kiara.

~mj said...

Anon 6:17, Kaine's actions, words, etc is not at issue. If LE is still looking at him, I would not make any comments against that.

I take issue with 1 aspect, and 1 aspect only: the blind defense of a person who sits behind the 5th while everything that she claims to hold dear goes to hell. I do not have an issue with her taking the 5th, I have an issue with all the clamor about her "innocence, this doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense, why doesn't everyone just leave her be etc etc" - when she holds the key to it. If she wanted her daughter MORE than she wants to remain silent, she would have taken the stand at her own divorce trial. But she did not b/c part of what they needed to determine is whether she was criminally negligible with Kyron's disappearance or the MFH plot. Those two sticking points mattered when a judge looked at whether she was safe for her daughter. Instead of addressing it, she followed the advice of her CRIMINAL attorney and claimed the 5th.

Long before that though, and very quickly after Kyron went missing, she hired said criminal attorney and stopped answering LE's questions about where she was during a period of time, whether her friend Dee Dee met up with her and whether she had any knowledge of Kyron's disappearance. Those questions she needs to satisfactorily answer. Had she done so already, and IF she were innocent, she could easily say, "I already told you XYZ" and she would stick with it. But LE called BS on what she said in her interviews and her poly's and instead of her standing by what she said, she hired the criminal lawyer and sat behind the 5th.

Even her friend Dee Dee did that with the 5th before the grand jury. For ridiculous questions, like do you know Terri Horman, when in fact that was already established that they knew one another. All that stinks to high heaven.

So I say, if she is innocent, then speak. Answer the questions, take the stand in her divorce trial (which isn't possible any longer) but she could have taken the stand then, she could have taken the stand in the civil case against her, but she doesn't. Why? Because she doesn't want to incriminate herself. Ok, what's so incriminating then? If whatever is incriminating has nothing to do with poor Kyron - then face the music for whatever it is to move along the his case. But she refuses. Why?

Anonymous said...

MJ, I respect what you're saying.
However, I believe Terri did answer questions about her whereabouts. One of the things she claims is that shw was driving around on roads to calm her baby's ear infection, and does not remember every precise road she drove. Incidentally, how in a 2 hr time period could she have (with her own baby with her, kill Kyron and dispose of him and no evidence found???
What you are saying about Desiree pleading the fifth being incriminating makes sense IF you feel that had she spoke, Kaine would have said "Oh OK, thanks for talking. Here is Kiara, you can have her back now."
No, methinks, regardless of what Terri said even if it supported her innocence, Kaine was ready to make the next judo move against her and was prepared to have his lawyer twist her words and go for the jugular (taking Kiara), and this is what Kaine did to Desiree, take her baby as she lay ill, so why would Kaine back down in taking Kiara from someone with a cloud of suspicion over her?
I am not saying Kaine kidnapped Kyron, but I do find his statements to be odd. In the interview I watched, he predicted it would take "2, 3 or 4 years" to find Kyron when I would think he would have used the media time to beg for anyone who had seen or knows anything to come forward immediately so that Kyron could be found as soon as possible. I have watched other interviews with Kaine and there's seems to be an unusual complacency about the case dragging on. In the interview I just watched Kaine and the interviewer were talking about Terri and Kaine was saying he was convinced Terrib had some involvement and then the interviewer asked him if LE was looking at anyone else and he says, with an odd lilt in his voice like it was a positive thing oh yeah they're looking at lots of other people. It seemed like he said it like it was a positive thing because then noone will focus on him. I wonder, was LE ever looking at LOTS of other people???
If Terri did this crime she should be damned to hell. Iam just not convinced. Kaine is a skilled manipulator as we can see from his behavior with Desiree, so I really wonder.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:36, What did she say about hating Kyron? What exactly did she say and who did she say it to?

Anonymous said...

^^kaine may be selfish etc.... But he passed his polygraphs, LE cleared him.

~mj said...

Anon @ 7:34 - While I do share your opinion of Kaine morally speaking as well as whether he is completely innocent or not. If I were to speculate possible outcomes, I certainly wouldn't leave him out, he clearly has spoken some odd comments.

However, the Terri situation stands alone and above just speculation, and in my opinion has nothing to do with what Kaine personally feels. It has everything to do with the courts and LE. The judge cannot arbitrarily toss a restraining order at someone. The courts do this when they have enough evidence to OK a temp (which isn't the end-all of evidence, I am aware)

For a restraining order to stay put over the course of years a couple of scenarios are at play...A) there is evidence supporting the need for the order or B) the restrained party does nothing to move to have it lifted. With the court dates and appearances that those two have done, clearly Terri attempted to have the order lifted. She just wasn't willing to go far enough to take the stand. That again has no bearing on Kaine and what he wants, that was all Terri's doing. For whatever reason she believes she needs the 5th, it outweighed her visitation with her daughter. I have seen court cases that a person does awful things and in the end the court awards at the very least supervised visitations.But not this case directly because of her silence.

Let's play the "what if" game for a second. What if Terri doesn't want to incriminate against herself that she did in fact try and hire someone to murder Kaine and that is what her total silence is about. Then she is in effect saying, "I would rather lose my daughter, to hell with the investigation of poor missing Kyron - than let out that I may have done this other (lesser) crime" IF that is the case here, I am not saying it is, but IF it were (or something similar) then that is a despicable person.

But what if it is more? Yes, she did answer questions at first, but to ignore that her alibi fell apart under scrutiny and she refused to stick around to answer the fallout questions for an alibi falling apart, then that is a person NOT helping in the investigation to find a missing child, not to mention HER step-son! Despicable. A failed poly doesn't carry weight with some, I get that, however as a tool for LE, and strictly as such, their tool said in no uncertain terms that she was withholding information and when pressed? Low and behold she sits behind the 5th.

As regards to Kaine and Desiree and their whole mess, I do believe Desiree had Kaine take over custody of Kyron so that she could seek treatment for her illness elsewhere. That of course does not speak to what the custody wishes and arrangements were at the time Kyron went missing, but it does shed some light on how the arrangement came to pass.

elf said...

You expect cheating from a man, you expect more from your friends. You can't place all the blame on a foolish, weakb man. Terry saw what she wanted and too it. Kyron was only an expendable pawn in the end to her.

Anonymous said...

MJ, You have made excellent points anout Terri's pleading the fifth. It does seem to be incriminating UNLESS Kaine framed her and she knows it. This (knowledge of being framed in such a profoundly disturbing crime IF this happened) would cause the average person to "freeze" and "clam up". Do I think he framed her? I dont know. I do find MANY of his statements to be "sensitive".
One other issue: I read on here. He passed his polygraph. Case closed. Polygraphs are unreliable for personality disordered individuals. Personality disordered individuals can and do commit crimes and pass polygraphs because their personality disorder causes them to block wrongdoing from consciousness. I do not know if Kaine has a personality disorder. I just wanted to point out that guilty people with personality disorders can and do pass polygraphs.
One other thing: I need to find a link but after googling I saw a story which I believe said Kaine is attempting to subpoena any type of written cinformation (from social media, email, etc) between Terri and any other individual in which it is claimed any other individual, besides Terri, was responsible for kidnapping Kyron. This, in my opnion, could be an effort to find out what Terri or others know or suspect. Perhaps I coukd be wrong, but at any rate, it seems like an odd request.

elf said...

Lets also not forget that Terry was cheating on her husband kaine in the days following kyrons disappearance.

~mj said...

Anon @ 10:09 - Your conversation has been great today! Thank you for being able to challenge one another in the conversation without being catty. You do bring up great questions and ideas. I personally do not see "case closed" when someone passes their poly, I see that a tool for LE has been used and helps direct which way to investigate. From what I understand is that Kaine not only passed the poly (or tool for LE) but his alibi checked out great too. Then when presented with the MFH plot, he immediately responded by filing for divorce and getting a restraining order. Not actions that support being responsible for the disappearance of your son. Could he be? Certainly. Could he not be? Definitely.

Although, for a person who supports mental health awareness, I do feel compelled to clarify, not all personality disorders are capable of the same things. While I am sure you do not mean to lump them together, I do feel compelled to caution anyone from thinking that just because certain disorders can produce behaviours does not mean that the other disorders that qualify as personality disorders will produce the same. Those disorders can be as different as night and day, but still fall under personality disorder. Can they beat a poly? Not sure I believe that totally. The way the questions are asked in the poly the really short any option for the take to have a difference of opinion or a personal definition. In this case, Terri, when asked, has information regarding Kyon's disappearance or she does not. No matter how highly she thinks of herself.

~mj said...

Elf, I adore your comments, but come on... I do not expect cheating from a man! lol! I would expect the most from the man I am committed to, over what I expect from my friends. Both Terri and Kaine are morally disgusting. That puts that to bed, yea? :)

mmmagique said...

Desiree has made it clear on many occasions that she and Terri were not friends. She was not her friend, and she was not her caretaker. Terri and Kaine met at a restaurant/bar.

Terri did tell friends and family that she had been friends with Desiree, but Desiree has completely denied it. I believe her over Terri any day.

S + K Mum said...

Can I ask if anyone knows wether the guy Terri was 'sexting' after Kyrons disappearance, has been investigated and what the outcome was? Thanks on advance! I'm sorry I can't remember his name.

elf said...

Thanks mj :) I do expect more from my friends. Its one of those unwritten codes: friends don't touch your man. I think its a larger betrayal. Friends are supposed to stick by you through thick and thin, friends don't have the written/verbal contract that you get when you get married but your friends are around before and after relationship all because of love. Not because of hormonal impulses. Kaine should have known if you lay with dogs you're gonna get up with fleas. Terry having an affair with her terribly ill friends husband (an illness Terry was allegedly around to help support her friend) should have shown kaine just what kind of woman Terry is/was. Its not like Desiree could fight back.
Terry is just a predator. She stole Desiree's family while she was down. She did something to kyron, a helpless male 2nd grader. Kaine ain't no angel but Terry is a she-devil.
**I'm not saying every man is weak willed but I think the majority of today's men have no concept of honor. Sadly most women don't seem to either. Its all about immediate gratification.

mmmagique said...

Desiree and Terri were never friends. It's a rumor that has gotten out of control. Desiree has said they were not friends/didn't know each other until Kaine hooked up with Terri.

Jen Ow said...

I believe there was more than one man Terri was sexting, in between her fake crying onthe press conferences to help find Kyron

The 'landscaper' who Terri was the one who exposed the murder for hire plot, and the other man, (seems like he was a man she knew from high school?) was investigated...although I don't remember if he was cleared, or if LE believed him to be a possible accomplice of Terri's?

Jen Ow said...

*The 'landscaper' was...

Mary said...

@Anon, 11:03: I'd be interested hearing why you think Terri has yet to account for her whereabouts for the 2 hours after she left Kyron's school & why only she failed, not just one, but 3 polygraphs. Also, why she willingly gave up custody of her daughter for almost 4 years rather than take the stand. No snark, I'm really looking forward to reading another point of view.

Thanks,
Mary

Mary said...

@Eee, 7:04: ditto on the "Bombshell tonight" thing! Lol. I thought there was another mod here? An unfortunate, but rare mistake for Peter.

Anonymous said...

MJ, Very good discussing with you also! I find this case to be very troubling and equally confusing and I appreciate the free exchange of ideas, theories, and questions.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mary,
Please understand I am not defending Terri. I am not convinced she didnt do it, but I am not convinced she did it either.
To try to answer your questions
1) I believe Terri did account for the 2 hours time including having 2 receipts from 2 different locations. I believe Terri claims she was not able to recall every specific road she drove when driving around to calm her baby's ear infection.
2). I cannot say why Terri failed 3 polygraphs. However, it is not conclusive of her guilt. A few yesrs ago I had read about a case in my state, I believe it was the Molly Bish case, and I cannot remember the exact number, but it was a large number of people, I believe 8 or 9 people actually failed polygraphs when given them regarding Molly's disappearance and murder, and obviously, there were not 8 or 9 perpetrators.
3). Why did she willingly give up custody of Kiara? In my opinion, she did not willingly give up custody. I do not consider her reaction to Kaine's complicated legall maneuverings to be proof of guilt. Rather, as has been pointed out, Terri answering questions about her alleged murder for hire against Kaine could have proven very detrimental to her ever visiting Kiara and potential jail time, etc. In my opinion, Kaine has shown himself to be highly immoral and manipulative as shown by his actions towards Desiree including refusing to let Kyron go live with Desiree. Does this mean Terri is innocent? No. But I do view Kaine's actions keeping in mind his tendency to manipulate.

Anonymous said...

Terri is a very evil rooted woman. How could an adult mother of two other children harbor such hatred for a kid? She is very narcistic, and she cares only about herself. Just imagine Kyron on the morning he disappeared, going to his science fair and leaving with his evil stepmother trustworthingly, and then she kills him. She is the worst of the worst and anyone sticking up for her is delusional and obviously was not taught the difference between right and wrong or good and bad.

S + K Mum said...

Thank you Jen Ow, yeah the guy from high school I think is who I meant :-)

Mary said...

@anon, 2:25: thank you for answering. I thought the receipts only covered such a short time (time stamped so close together) that it still left a two-hour time span unaccounted for? I may be mistaken? Also, what do you make of the gardener lady? Although I'm still unsure, her actions from that day were bizarre!

Thanks again for answering.

S + K Mum said...

Thanks Jen Ow. I looked it up, it was a Michael Cook I was thinking of ..... :-)

~mj said...

She emailed a friend and said she hated Kyron. She used the word -hate.

~mj said...

Elf, thanks for the response. I agree with you. Society is on a slippery slope.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:56,
I'm not sticking up for Terri, if she committed the crime, she should be damned to hell.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mary,

Do you mean Dede Spicher? I do think it is odd she disappeared from her job during the time period and also was not answering her cell phone. It was my understanding they couldnt find anything incriminating pertaining to her, but I do think it is odd she disappeared during the time period. It is incomprehensible to me that she would have premeditated and helped Terri with such a heinous crime and then that both would maintain silence, I think it is highly unlikely, however that would not mean it was impossible.

Another thing I havent seen discussed on here, on Dr Phil it was discussed and said by Kaine himself that he refused to have a private search organization hired by Desiree dig up his property, the property Terri had lived at. He said he would welcome LE to search his property but not to have the private search organization dig or search on his property. To me, I don't understand that, it was to search to see if Terri had hidden any evidence there, and if it could help them find Kyron and since he suspects Terri, why wouldnt he let them dig?

Anonymous said...

I wanted to add that my heart breaks for Desiree. You can see the heartrending pain she is in.
I also think it is so sad and scary how Desiree said on Dr Phil that Kyron could only see 3 feet in front of him without his glasses and he would cling to her in stores and was afraid to cross a line in their yard because his vision problems made him fearful. She said she believes someone who knew him took him, he would not have wandered out of the school alone because of his vision problems.

Jen Ow said...

Hi Mary,

There was one Fred Myer receipt time stamped 9:12am...after that Terri's time is unaccounted for until at least 2+hrs later, when she showed up at the gym, 11:20am.

(She claims to have gone to a second Fred Myer looking for meds that she couldn't find at the first, but to my knowledge that was never confirmed.)

Below is Terri's alibi in her own words. Note the precise times (and in one case even mileage) Terri gives for every time period EXCEPT for the one of interest. (The 2hrs she is unaccounted for.)

Also note that after her two stops for ear infection medication, and 2+ hr treck through the cell phone signal devoid countryside that she can't specifically recall, to 'soothe' her sick baby....Terri heads to the gym to firm up her alibi. Where she dumps the same sick baby that she has been searching out meds for, and trying to console for hours with a stranger, so she can get her sweat on!

Makes sense to me...

Terri's email:

“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn't have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day - they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them ..."

Jen Ow said...

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html?mobile=y

Here is the link for the article with some of Terri's emails. They are all wonderful samples for SA.

Anonymous said...

Jen, Thanks for posting the info about times. I can see where this ambiguous 2 hour period casts suspicion on Terri.
Have you seen the Dr Phil from Sep 2013 with Kaine and Desiree?
It made me wonder about 2 things
1) Why won't Kaine allow search of his property that Desiree wants to see if any evidence left by Terri can be found.
2). Desiree says she read an email Terri sent a friend saying that the night before the science fair, Terri and Kaine had argued until 3 am and Terri had said to Kaine she was done and she wanted a divorce. Desiree believes this happened and seemed to think it could help shed light on Terri's alleged actions to Kyron, , but Kaine says no, it did not happen, there was no argument of any kind.
Kaine also describes spontaneously at a separate point in the show as he is describing what he did the morning before the science fair that it was a "normal" morning. He repeats the word "normal". He again uses the word "normal" to describe the science fair morning when asked by Dr Phil if he and Terri argued until 3 am. Doesn't SA consider this sensitive?

Anonymous said...

Omg, anyone that believes Terri did not kidnap and kill Kyron is plain dumb.

Anonymous said...

Anon, Is it dumb to question whether she did it?
Why doesn't Kaine allow a dig and search of his property (where Terri lived)?
If Kaine believes Terri kidnapped and killed Kyron, why wouldn't he allow the search? Who knows if she buried any type of evidence? If it could help find Kyron, why won't he allow it by a private search organization but yet he will allow LE even though LE is not doing a dig and search of his property.
I love (sarcasm) how when most people refuse a search they are GUILTY but yet when Kaine does it, it's just insignificant.
Anyway, I would love someone to explain what they think of Kaine's refusal.

Jen Ow said...

Hi Anon-

To answer your question, Yes, I did see the Dr Phil with Kaine and Desiree, when it first aired.

I thought Kaine was a jerk, and that he clearly missed opportunities to save Kyron from Terri, due to his selfish pride. He admitted that Terri was being irresponsible with the kids, drinking too much, and taking medications that left her unable to properly care for the kids. He admitted that he had found his toddler daughter wandering alone, while Terri was passed out, and he admitted (with much prompting from Dr P) that he knew Terri was drinking excessively, but claimed he never actually 'saw' it.

I was most blown away by his admission that he was too preoccupied with his work, and the economy to pay attention to his kids, and wife! Kaine is a Grade A Jerk, for sure!

That said, I don't believe he is responsible for what happened to Kyron. (Other than the fact that his pride kept Kyron in the miserable situation where he was unwanted, until Terri took matters into her own hands.)

As for the private search of his land, I believe that he and Desiree both agreed (on the show) that LE had already searched the land twice. I can't speak to Kaine's reasoning, but I can think of several reasons why he would only allow LE to perform 'official' searches on his property.

The most obvious reason being the fact that if they actually found something, the validity of the evidence would immediately be called into question by Terri, and her supporters. They would argue that the area was already searched twice, and then magically when Desiree's team performed the search, 'planted' evidence implicating Terri appeared.

He may have other more selfish reasons, like not wanting his property dug up/damaged, or maybe he's worried about stepping on LE's toes? Either way, it's not like he said 'this area is off limits'. (like Debra Bradley)

He allowed LE, who has the best resources available, to search... twice!

Anonymous said...

Jen, Thank you for your response. All extremely good points you made and it is hard to argue with any of them.
The only thing I can really add to counter is that on the Dr. Phil show, Dr. Phil points out that the day of his show was the first time Desiree and Kaine have sat down with each other or spoken to each other in 3 YEARS!! Dr. Phil scolds them for this and says they need to put any differences aside and sit down and write down any details or information about Kyron they can think of for the sake of finding Kyron. He asks Desiree would she be willing to do that. Desiree responds that she would be happy to IF KAINE WILL BE HONEST.
So, this is right from Desiree's mouth that she has avoided talking to Kaine for 3 years although they share a missing son because his level of dishonesty is that offputting. Now, Desiree, obviously does not think Kaine had any involvement, but in my opinion, if Desiree does not trust him enough to talk to him for 3 years, it truly does call into question his level of honesty. Why should we believe what he says or trust that he has good reasons rather than deceptive reasons not to allow a dig of his property (because I don't think LE did an actual dig?)?
Anyway, that is my reasoning for what it's worth.

Also, here is a link if you're interested of recent info about missing fliers that were put up by people possibly associated with Terri in her neighborhood and Kaine's reaction. Not sure what to make of it. The poster shows an age-progressed photo of Kyron.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-hopes-people-will-ignore-Roseburg-fliers-featuring-Kyron-257426461.html

Mary said...

Jen and Anon, 8:46:

Anon- yes, it was DeeDee I was referring to, thanks! Although I don't think she was involved in Kyron's murder, I do believe she was involved in the cover up. Obviously, that's just my opinion & have no facts to base it on, but her actions that day (disappearing, etc) were so out of character for her, according to friends, that I cannot believe her behavior was just coincidence to have happened on that day.

Also, I agree with Jen as to why, imo, Kaine wouldn't allow an outside search party to look on his property: if any evidence were to be found, its validity would've likely been called into question. I also think Kaine had many chances to save Kyron from the situation but chose to put himself first- his personality is ugly.


Thank you, Jen, for the receipt info & emails. I notice how she referred to the two hour time span driving her daughter around as "a few minutes." I know I did the drive around thing a couple times when my daughter was sick and I surely wouldn't confuse the amount of time I drove with her crying!

Also, if my sick baby was still crying after two hours, I wouldn't have made it worse for her by taking her to the gym vs home, I'd have called her pediatrician or taken her to ER. Plus, if I'm under scrutiny over my missing stepson, I'd surely say I was driving around for two hours and not a few minutes. I'd want zero confusion by anyone.

Last, once she tells of buying the med with sentences, she changes her writing style by saying 'Back from gym at X time. Kaine home at X time,' etc.

Mary said...

Anon, 1:24pm:

Bless your heart! I know it's hard sometimes to have patience when reading Big People conversations. So during those frustrating times in the future, sweetheart, maybe you should reading Chicken Little aloud to yourself, in a soothing voice, to see if it might suit your needs a little better.

Anonymous said...

Mary, Now you and Jen have me thinking Terri was involved!
It is odd how she says "a few minutes" about driving Kiara around. Why would she minimize a time period when it actually makes her look bad? Maybe she was not someone who typically ever drove around to calm her baby, had created the lie that she was driving around for hours, and then minimized the length of time knowing it would sounded unbelievable?
Mary, I read an interview with Dede Spicher on blinkoncrime because your question made me curious. Her story does not seem to contain deception, but something is off, and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe she knows more than she's saying? I will try to put a link up.
Also, I have a question. I read that Kyron's coat and bookbag were left behind in the school. Does anyone know where they were left--a locker or his classroom or even another classroom while he was looking at projects?
Also, was his frog poster set up in his homeroom or another room?
After thinking about all the clues, I am curious to know why Kyron's teacher told his best friend Kyron was either in the bathroom or getting a drink? Had she seen Kyron? Or seen his poster or his coat and bag? I wonder exactly how long passed between the teacher thinking Kyron is in bathroom or at water fountain and her realizing that he actually wasnt there. Why was the assumption made by her that he was there I wonder?

Mary said...

Anon, 10:45am:

Yes, I agree about DeDe & like I said, just her actions from that day makes it hard to believe it was coincidence- her behavior was only out of character on only that one day. And it just so happened to be the day Kyron disappeared.

I cannot remember with much certainty the answers to your questions, so I'd hate to take a wild guess & pass inaccurate info. I'm going to read up on this case again because our discussions have me curious, as well!

One more thing I'd like to add, however: Desiree has gone on national television stating she has no doubt as to Terri's involvement in Kyron's disappearence & Desiree and othere have protested outside of Terri's parent's home, where Terri currently lives. The last protest was only a couple months ago. If I were Terri and was innocent of all the statements Desiree has made, I would've sued her for slander long ago. Protesting outside of my parent's home, causing them & me humuliation? Oh no! If I were innocent, I'd have put a stop to their slandering protests four years ago! Imo, Terri has allowed the slander from Desiree and others to continue because to file a civil suit would require she take the stand to prove her innocence. I don't think Terri can!

I've enjoyed our discussion & like you, I'm curious about details from Kyron's disappearence that time erased from my memory long ago & wish I could answer at least a few of your questions. I blame my dad for my bad memory! The forgetfulness began in my early 20s and to be so absent minded while still young is quite frustrating- and embarrassing. My dad has always had a bad memory.

Have a good Friday!

Anonymous said...

I haven't heard any updates for awhile. I'm an optimistic person and I hope he is still out there somewhere but if he was taken from this world , I hope they find the person who did this or that they come forward. Someone knows something and when someone can do something to another human being and go on with their normal lives as if nothing happened and lay your head down at night and feel peace.... It is a sick and scary world :(