Thursday, March 13, 2014

Hailey Dunn's Remains Unreleased


Officials have declined to release the remains of Hailey Dunn to her mother, Billie Jean Dunn, who has since sought enough signatures to petition a release. The remains were found this time last year, even as the mother's own language signaled to the audience that this time, unlike a previous "finding", was the real thing.

Why would they hold the body?

Hailey Dunn was reported missing shortly after Christmas, 2010, in which initial thoughts seemed to be that law enforcement was thinking run away...though Hailey did not take her belongings with her.

When the story hit the news wire, producers for The Nancy Grace Show contacted Billie Jean Dunn asking her if she would like to highlight her daughter's plight on national television.

This brought Dunn immediately into the spotlight, something she seemed to enjoy, but also revealed to us, in the very first moments, the most critical aspects of the case:

1.  Hailey was dead
2.  Hailey's mother was in need of an alibi.

This came from Statement Analysis of her words.

It was not difficult to discern.

Each subsequent appearance on The Nancy Grace Show buried the mother, and her boyfriend, Shawn Adkins, in deeper and deeper trouble.

With each appearance, deception was indicated and the formula that the town manager quoted was clear:  2 plus 2 equals 4.

In the case of Hailey Dunn, we had:

1.  Deception and the need for deception
2  Drugs and Substance Abuse
3.  Pornography
4.  Sexual violence


Failed polygraphs, as well as words indicating that Hailey would be found in the vicinity in an "ugly field" and that she was the victim of a sexual homicide all came from the mother's own words, even as her attorney was incapable of keeping her quiet.

The story that Dunn tried to peddle, itself, was recognized by CNN's Grace, from CNN's own online library which the mother had accessed!

The story of Hailey Dunn has since become a teaching tool for detecting deception, and that the body is still unreleased tells us that the case is not closed.

Here it is from the Nancy Grace Show.  It is, by itself, a "Statement Analysis 101" for instruction:

GRACE: A 13-year-old cheerleader leaves in broad daylight from her own home to walk down the street to a little friend`s sleepover. Reminds me a lot of the Carlie Brucia case out of Florida. She`s never seen again. 


MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: She was last seen a week ago, Nancy. It`s been a week since anybody has seen this beautiful little 13-year-old girl. About 3:00 last Monday, it`s the last time anybody ever saw her alive. 


Note that in the story, a time must be identified and they chose "3:00" 
Please note that when someone is going to fabricate a time, or choose a number, it is often the number "3". 


GRACE:  Miss Dunn, how far did she have to go to get to the little sleepover? 


Simple Question:  How far did she have to go?  It is all that was asked.  If the subject goes beyond the boundary of the question, every single word is critical.  

DUNN: Four to five blocks. It wasn`t rare for Hailey to walk a short distance during daylight. She wasn`t allowed out after dark especially to walk, but she only had four to five blocks to go. 


Please note that not once, but twice the mother of a missing child, in her first answer, referenced the child in the past tense. 

When the parent of a missing child references the child in the past tense, it is an indication that the parent knows or believes her child is dead.  Susan Smith, Casey Anthony, Haleigh Cummings' step mother, Baby Lisa's mother, Baby Ayla's father...and on the list goes. 

As of January 3, 2011, had police said anything to the mother to make her believe her child is dead?  This goes against the natural denial aspect of a mother's protective instincts.  Even after a child is found dead, an innocent mother will still reference the child in the present tense as it goes against her own instinct to accept that her child is dead. 

Billie Jean Dunn has given two linguistic indicators that Hailey is dead.  

Next notice that while her child is missing, Billie Dunn has the need to portray herself as a good and conscientious mother, indicating sensitivity.  Had she stopped at "3 or 4 blocks", we would not have seen the deception.  She knew that Hailey was dead (confirmed in many other statements) and had the need to portray herself positively.  

GRACE: Tell me what happened the day she went missing, Miss Dunn. 


"What happened?" is the best question to ask. It is the perfect question that allows the subject to:

1.  Begin the account wherever she chooses.  The first sentence is always important.  She could choose to start it anywhere, but where she chooses is critical and shows priority.  
2.  She will choose when to end the account. 
3.  Her words are her own.  Nervousness is expected, which is why courts find the nervous 911 call so reliable and label them "excited utterance"; that is, to the courts, their words are, to the court, the most reliable, since the person is upset.  
4.  Free Editing Process makes Statement Analysis reliable.  We do not interpret, we listen.  

DUNN: She went missing on Monday while I was at work. My boyfriend - - he came home from work about 3:00 -- or he got to my house about 3:00. And he`s seen Hailey. Hailey was there. She told him, I`m running across the street to my dad`s house for a few minutes but I`m going Mary Beth`s, and I`m staying the night there. Let my mom know. 

So that evening when he picked me up from work, we got home, we were getting ready for bed. I didn`t get worried when I hadn`t heard from Hailey. I thought she was at Mary Beth`s. I was kind of upset that she didn`t call and confirm it with me, but not worried at that point. 

Tuesday, I was at work again, I left my cell phone at home for my kids to use when I`m working. So Tuesday, I called my son. I said tell Hailey text the little girl, her friend, tell Hailey she needs to go ahead and get home. This was around lunch. My son called me back within a few minutes and she said, mom, she said Hailey never made it over there. She never spent the night. 

So at that point I called Hailey`s dad and found out she didn`t over there and she didn`t stay the night with him. I left from work and went to the police station in Colorado City and reported her missing. 


This is important enough to view by itself:

DUNN:  She went missing on Monday while I was at work. 


She chooses to begin her account by establishing an alibi.

Dunn was not asked "when did she go missing?" which means the question, "What happened to Hailey" is "sensitive" to the subject.   This is to go, again, outside the boundary of the question.  

To an innocent parent, the question is not "sensitive" within itself.  The entire topic is very emotional, but "sensitive" is a word used in analysis.  When the father of Hailey Dunn was asked the same question, his answer showed no sensitivity indicators, though he was upset out of his mind.   

To now be introduced to this case, the reader/analyst is immediately confronted with a mother who has indicated her child is dead, and is establishing an alibi for herself.  

On January 3, 2011, the mother of Hailey Dunn indicated:

1.  Hailey is dead
2.  Mother needs an alibi

Every appearance by the mother after this confirmed these two points.  


My boyfriend - - he came home from work about 3:00

1.  ISI

Note first that she introduced Shawn Adkins without his name.  This is an improper social introduction and it is indicative of a troubled relationship.  That she takes ownership with the possessive pronoun, "my" shows that they are together, but in relation to the missing child, there is something less than good, as evidenced by the missing proper name.  

Note that she knows how to use present tense and past tense verbs and uses past tense here.  

2.  Note that she chooses the time "3:00".   We note this as the liar's number.  This is not part of the SCAN technique but is one of those marvelous little statistical tid bits identified by Analyst Mark McClish who not only saw it, but asked investigators around the country to send in their own findings.  In my investigative and interview work, I have found it to be so.  We do not conclude deception based on one thing, instead we just make a note of it.  

 or he got to my house about 3:00


She allows for an "either/or" possibility reducing commitment to the story.  This allows for changes to be made later and shows the uncertainty of her account.  Why would the mother of a missing child, on high adrenaline alert, not have established, a week later, what happened and where her boyfriend was, or what time he got home?  This uncertainty is taken in context with the indication of death, and the need to establish an alibi.

Note it is "my house" which is expected.    


And he`s seen Hailey. Hailey was there. 


1.  A sentence that begins with "And" indicates the need for a connecting word = missing information.  It is a jump in an account. 

2.  Redundancy means sensitivity. 

"he's seen Hailey."  She establishes that Adins laid eyes on Hailey.  Extra words give us additional information.  This is critical. 

"Hailey was there."

If he "seen Hailey", wouldn't she have to be there to be seen?

Doesn't this sound awkward to you?

When a sentence sounds awkward, you should always pause and wonder why, instinctively.  Here, it is an artificial statement, that is, it is not coming from memory.  The extra emphasis is because she is lying and has a need to emphasis something.  Even without training, people knew this was a lie. 

The extra words indicate deception.  It is the need to emphasize that Hailey was there, (alive is the presupposition she hopes the listener will accept, even though she spoke of her as dead) which shows deception. 

Hailey was not likely alive to be seen at 3PM.  


She told him, I`m running across the street to my dad`s house for a few minutes but I`m going Mary Beth`s, and I`m staying the night there. Let my mom know.

Communicative language is important.  We note that "said" and "told" are different. 

"My boss said to take this to Main St." is one way of saying something but with more authority, "My boss told me to take this to Main St." is another.  

Here, she uses the more authoritative "told" regarding a 13 year old child speaking to an adult. This is not the expected. 

As to the story of going to a friend's house, we later learned that Billie Dunn told Nancy Grace that she had "true crime" literature in her home, and it was the same material that Nancy Grace, herself, was associated with.  What is this reference?

It is reference to the case of Carlie Brucia who was abducted and killed.  The story line is the same. 

Billie Dunn referenced where the case came from and gave a similar story.  

So that evening when he picked me up from work, we got home

She then uses the very sensitive word "so" explaining her actions.  Why is this so sensitive?  It is so sensitive because she has the need to tell us why she did something.  

Note another needless statement:  "we got home."  

Look at the awkwardness of the entire statement.  What is the reason she has to explain that while driving home they got home? 

This "temporal lacunae", or skipping/passing of time means that there is missing information.  What was she skipping over?  It is an indication of deliberately withheld information. 

We later learned they were out drug purchasing. 

we were getting ready for bed. 

Another jump in time.  

We listen to what someone tells us.  She only says "we" were getting ready for bed.  She does not say they went to bed, nor does she say they went to sleep.  

There is a reason to everything that is said.  Always note when people say that they were getting ready to do something as it does not mean they did something; only that they were getting ready to.  There is a need to give a sentence of beginning something but not doing it.  When people do something, they say so.  When they may not have done something, they will often say they began to do something.  Did they finish it?  If they did not say so, we cannot say so for them.

Next, when speaking from memory, a person can tell us what they did, and what they thought.  If they tell us what did not happen, what they did not see, what they did not think, we are on high alert for deception:   


didn`t get worried when I hadn`t heard from Hailey. 


We now have a dead child, a mother establishing an alibi, and now she tells us of what emotions she did not have.  This is artificial.   

Principle:  Anything reported in the negative is very important.  

Deception indicated. 

Now notice her artificial emotions:  

I thought she was at Mary Beth`s. I was kind of upset that she didn`t call and confirm it with me, but not worried at that point. 

Since Hailey didn't say to Adkins that she was staying at Marybeth's, but "told" him, if the language was consistent, there should have been a report of a fight, or disagreement.  This inconsistency is noted.  She again reports what didn't happen:  Hailey "didn't call."

This is a truthful sentence and an example of how a sentence can be truthful while being overall deceptive. 
Tuesday, I was at work again


Here is another case of a seemingly unnecesary word becoming of vital importance.  Why the need to say she was at work, "again"?

1.  It could be that she rarely works, and was per diem, and found herself surprised to be called in.  This is something a substitute teacher might say. 

2.  She is continuing to work her alibi.  

Since we have, in context, her establishment of alibi, the analyst/reader should see this as the subject seeking to affirm her alibi.  Later, we learned that this was her regular job and not a per diem or temp. position. 

I left my cell phone at home for my kids to use when I`m working. 

She now tells us why she did something, making "what happened?" into "why something happened" meaning high sensitivity.  She is setting up a scenario and explaining why she did something. 

She is portraying herself as a caring mother.  
Question:  Who portrays themselves in positive terms?  
Answer:  those who have been negligent and have a need to persuade.   We later learned that this loving and caring mother was into home-made pornography, pornography on her child's X- Box, bestiality ("who doesn't have some bestiality?" she asked her followers, rhetorically), burned a home-made tattoo into her teenaged son and bought cocaine to sell for her mortgage payment.  


So Tuesday, I called my son. I said tell Hailey text the little girl, her friend, tell Hailey she needs to go ahead and get home. 

1.  "So" explains why she did something, highly sensitive, rather than answering the basic "what happened?" question. 

2.  Note the communication of what she said to her son:

a.  Tell Hailey
b.  Text the little girl
c.  her friend
d.  tell Hailey

The sentence begins strongly, with "I" indicating that she should be able to say what she said, but she isn't.  Why the confusion?  Tell Hailey via what means?  The phone?  She already said she left her phone home for her kids.  Text?  The "little girl" which is then explained as "her friend", and then back to "tell Hailey."


This was around lunch. My son called me back within a few minutes and she said, mom, she said Hailey never made it over there. She never spent the night. 

She "said, mom, she said..." uses her title, "mom".  Note that economy of words from truthful statements are short: "he said..." yet she adds in "mom" as if story telling.

"never made it over there" is one thing but for the third time she gives us useless redundancy:  "she never spent the night".  It is useless since if she never made it there, she never spent the night. 

So at that point I called Hailey`s dad and found out she didn`t over there and she didn`t stay the night with him. I left from work and went to the police station in Colorado City and reported her missing.  



She returns to the explanation of why she did something.  In the SCAN tecnigue is colored as "blue", or the highest level of sensitivity.  A single indication of "blue" is sensitive, but where there is 2 or more, the analyst holds the paper up to the light and sees that in this area, between the "blues" is the most critical portion of the statement and where deception
is to be found. 

In just where Hailey Dunn's mother spoke for only a few moments this is what we learned about a missing 13 year old:

1.  She is dead
2.  The mother has a need for an alibi
3.  The mother is making up a story about what happened:  she is deceptive. 
4.  There is trouble with the boyfriend.  

All this in just one answer to one question.  

Without knowing anything about the police affidavit, investigation, or anything else, you already know that this is not a missing child case, but a homicide. 

You also know it is a domestic homicide. 

This was all known from the very beginning, simply because the mother spoke out on national television. 

Billie Jean Dunn loved the attention.  She even got a semi-celebrity in Marc Klass to 'endorse' her.  Klass even coached her on how to act like a grieving mother on television.  

A few weeks later, Klass had to call down public "shame" upon Dunn, for lying to police, as he quickly distanced himself from her. 

Billie Jean Dunn is an intelligent woman and she deceived some, but her deception is not extraordinary.  She is a survivor.  She has learned tough lessons in life, and for her, sexuality and violence are organically linked.  

Nancy Grace was horrified at the thought of reporting a little girl "missing" only to host a New Year's Eve party a few days later, and the exchange between Grace, a mother of twins, and Dunn, is also useful for instruction.  

Officials have not released Hailey's remains to Billie Dunn, and are holding them for a reason.  The FBI is involved, and has been, and the hope for justice, though dimmed, is not extinguished. 

I believe that had local prosecutors handed the case of the child pornography over to federal prosecutors, Shawn Adkins, based upon his profile, would have given up Hailey's remains and testified against Billie Dunn. 

Next up:  The conflict between TV host and mother of missing child increases...

54 comments:

Deejay said...

Hmmm. They are responding to petitions. Let's get a petition going to arrest Billie and Shawn for Hailey's murder.

GeekRad said...

I don't think they have responded to the petition yet. I think Peter is talking about having declined to date, not a new response. Correct me if I am wrong Peter. And thank you for keeping Hailey's case alive. And thanks to ima.grandma who first commented yesterday to inform us of the petition.

Anonymous said...

I wish someone would start that petition, so Billie and Shawn could really see how many truly think they are GUILTY.

Red Ryder said...

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_66cc6880-a9eb-11e3-926a-0017a43b2370.html?mode=jqm
Spoiled meat, moldy potatoes and three guns lying in plain view were among the findings during an Horry County Police Department search of the home of Sidney and Tammy Moorer, according to a police report..
Sidney and Tammy Moorer are due in court March 17 for a bond hearing on the murder charges.
According to the Feb. 21 police report, the Moorers and their children were present during the execution of the search warrant and they were all asleep in the downstairs master bedroom.
Police said in the report that three firearms were out in the open. Two long guns were leaning against the wall while a subcompact pistol rested on the night stand beside the bed.
"Overall, the home was in disarray and unsanitary," the officer wrote in the report.
Police further said in the report there was some sort of meat lying on the kitchen island and that it had aged for some time. Cooked potatoes were also on the counter top and had begun to mold.
The report also said trash was left on the counter tops and floors.
Upstairs, the home was in "complete disarray nearly in an unlivable manner," the report continued.
Hundreds of Legos were scattered on the floor with other children's toys, trash and clothes and the backyard was covered in animal feces, according to the report.

Excerpts from new article. Guns and kids, not a good thing. I wonder if this was a usual thing for them or just since they felt "threatened". The disarray reminds me of when my Mom used to say "order outside brings order inside", conversely disorder outside reveals internal disorder. There is lived in and then there is, as the LE sakis, unlivable. Those poor kids.
.

Terrence said...

Leads me to believe LE is keeping the remains because they'd rather have the real thing than a photo or x-rays.

Possibly to compare weapon/tool markings on the bone(s) to a potential weapon?

Anonymous said...

Doesnt take a yr after remans are found unless zip was found, nor are they indicted. all i see from my end in my own opinion is the worst detective work from tha slowest, laziest dumbest group ive ever seen.

charlotte from denmark said...

Have you ever done a SA on old cases, Mr. Hyatt?

I came across this statement (from his lips) from Charles Lindbergh regarding how he found his son the night he was kidnapped from his crib.

"...I went upstairs to the child's nursery, opened the door, and immediately noticed a lifted window. A strange-looking envelope lay on the sill. I looked at the crib. It was empty. I ran downstairs, grabbed my rifle, and went out into the night..."

The envelope in question was not opened until the police came two hours later. Mr. lindbergh had been told by the police (before he saw the envelope) not to touch anything, so he didn't open it.

I have four children, I know that I would have opened the envelope.

I dont have any more or less interest in this awful case than most people, I just though that statement was odd, and that it was strange that a child could be taken from his crib like that.

Sella35 said...

@Red Ryder- Police photographed the home during the search. The report also says investigators learned something "which gave cause for concern during the investigation," but what was learned was redacted from the report.

This is interesting.

GeekRad said...

The FBI announced last year, shortly after the announcement that the remains were Hailey's, that they were doing forensics that would take "weeks or months".. I agree, it doesn't take a year. Perhaps we need to petition the FBI to make Hailey's case a priority. After all, they are a federal agency and we pay their salaries.

Anonymous said...

If Billie and/or Shawn would tell how Hailey went from playing the Xbox to being carried and dumped out at the lake, then she could be laid to rest. What happened Billie?

Turtle said...

Strange that during her account she never said anything about checking the phone, and seeing Hailey ask MB what she was doing, but no mention of a sleepover....no conversation with MB, but says she was not worried.

Hobnob said...

off topic

The McCanns wrote this on their website back in July 2007:

Do you know something and don't want to or are too afraid of talking to the police? Speak to us (the McCann Team) confidentially on 0845 8384699 or
anonymous@findmadeleine.com
Where you working there? Did you see something on the night of May 3rd 2007? Were you the victim of a similar incident? Confidentiality guaranteed. Call Us.
Did you experience a similar or related occurrence in the last year?
Do you know someone who was possibly involved?
Do you know who committed the crime?
Do you have other information as to Madeleine's whereabouts?
Have you told the Portuguese police something you feel has been ignored? If so tell us again.
Appeal to anyone that has been in touch with either the Portuguese or the British police with information, no matter how small to contact us and tell us 'again'.
There is a reward for information leading to the safe return of our daughter Madeleine. There is ALSO a reward for information that will help us. Please contact:
investigation@findmadeleine.com
OR call 0845 8384699
PLEASE HELP US FIND OUR DAUGHTER; YOUR INFORMATION COULD BE VITAL.
(Lines are busy, but we want your call, your call could be the one we need, so please be patient and keep trying until you get through


This bit is fascinating, concerning and telling

There is a reward for information leading to the safe return of our daughter Madeleine. There is ALSO a reward for information that will help us.

Why are there 2 rewards?
Why is there a reward for information that will help the mccanns?
Why do they need help when it is their daughter missing?
What information can someone have that will help the mccanns

What information can someone have that will help the mccanns but interstingly not lead to the safe return of Maddie?

Does this in fact tell us they know Maddie cannot be safely returned, ie dead, but will help the mccanns?

Help the mccans do what?

Opinions please especially you Peter

john said...

Appeal to anyone that has been in touch with either the Portuguese or the British police with information, no matter how small to contact us and tell us 'again'.

Dropped pronoun before "Appeal"

Yet in all of the other "Appeals" the pronoun "You" precedes the requested appeal. Why are they not committed to this part of the statement?

Red Ryder said...

Sella35, I know! LE is playing close to the vest, it says as a result of this search TM & SM were arrested and "since been charged with murder, kidnapping, obstruction of justice and two counts of indecent exposure in connection with the disappearance of Heather Elvis."
It would be nice to know more , but I don't imagine that more will be revealed at their bond hearing on March 17th. I wonder how much evidence there is against them and if they can offer one/both a plea in exchange for returning Heather to her family. I feel deeply for the Elvis family and want so much for Heather to be found.
Where is Heather?

I wasn't intending to O/T Hailey's thread so much.
I wondered Peter, when I read your article it sounded like you have a theory why LE is holding onto Hailey's remains. If so, what do you think?
They can't be doing it because they don't feel Billy deserves her back. Or to pressure Billy into giving up some info or maybe even Shawn, if it didn't happen before, not gonna.
It must be forensic backlog. What do you think?

Anonymous said...

To those who are sending a petition: Have YOU ever thought that law enforcement is holding the remains for a reason? Maybe the remains are evidence?? Ever thought of that? No, I'm sure you wouldn't because you are buying Mommie Dearest bullshit.

Let's just say law enforcement has the skull. The skull has blunt force trauma. It is necessary for prosecution. Best thing you bleeding hearts can do is stay out of it. Family spokesman needs to let law enforcement do their job and stay out of it.

Red Ryder said...

Anon 4:19 I'm not sure what the MD BS is lol but if LE is keeping the remains as evidence could they not just as easily use photographs, video, measurements, even casts? What is the benefit of keeping the actual remains?

Hobnob said...

Exactly John

Appeal to anyone that has been in touch with either the Portuguese or the British police with information, no matter how small to contact us and tell us 'again'.


Where is the WE in We appeal...

They are desperate to know what witnesses may have told LE that LE aren't telling the mmcanns ( for obvious reasons)

Knowing what LE has been told by witnesses allows them to come up with a anexplanation for anything that may or may not have been found.

Instead they are having to guees and thus premept what they think has been found.

The demanded access to all the files and lost, they got only the files from Leicestersgire police that their own layers and team had sent in all 81 fiiles out of umpteen thousands.

They weren't impressed when the PJ files were made public since they thought only they would have access to them and could d spin it in their favor.
Instead they have a a whole bunch of people analysing every statement , every piece of evidence, every word and making it know to the public.

Few of the public knew Maddie had been made a ward of court which meant the mccanns gave up all parental responsibility for her . This affected their libel trial against Dr. Amaral since they couldn't file suit on Maddie's behalf.
This all means that to premept or cover up the mccanns leak marbles all over the place and when you know what to look for it is blatantly obvious.

GeekRad said...

I'm am with you anon 4:19. The MD supporters are just that. Forensic anthropologists need the bones to analyze them for blunt force trauma, unheralded cuts or breaks etc. I
Am sure they are not going to give them up. Scenario, the prosecutor finally makes an arrest based on evidence that includes the remains. Oops, the bones were given back to Bille and were cremated. Now the defense is screaming miss trial because all they had were photos and could not examine or test the bones using their experts. Mistrial or someone is let go. Seriously, they can't give up Hailey's remains until the case is solved. And the FBI isn't going make statements about what they have and not found.

GeekRad said...

I meant in healed cuts and break

GeekRad said...

Arrrgh- unhealed Stupid samrt phones.

Red Ryder said...

Ah! Thanks Geek Rad , that makes sense! I forgot about defense:)

Hobnob said...

i agree i bet if dunn got the remains back they would be cremated and thus not available for re-examination.

it is telling that the remains have not been released since it's been, what a year?

I would infer that they aren't releasing Hailey's remains to billie and,in effect, shawn because LE know they murdered her.
It's not smart to give the victim's remains back to the murderer.

Anonymous said...

Great maddie comments again.

Lemon said...

It's not smart to give the victim's remains back to the murderer. - hobnob

Word.

GeekRad said...

Red Ryder not to worry.there are many sides and emotions and sometimes our hearts over take our heads.

Anonymous said...

http://www.oaoa.com/news/article_0a8c99ee-ab00-11e3-9227-001a4bcf6878.html
Odessa American - Odessa, TX - 3/13/14

"Hailey Dunn Petition: Convene a grand jury"
Family, supporters want closure in case
~~~~~~~~

The above Linked article has some commentary by Billie Jean Dunn.

Yes . . . I bet Dunn would like to have Hailey's remains. She'd probably have them cremated to forever destroy any possible evidence. Then she would probably claim the remains were not Hailey's.

Just my opinion!

Billie Jean, if you read here . . . there is not statue of limitations on murder in the State of Texas.

Nic said...

Thanks for the indepth analysis, Peter. So much was revealed in such a short amount of time.

2010. It's been almost 3.5 years! This case is moving slower than molasses in January. What are they waiting for? They have evidence. They have a POI. They have *Hailey*. What the heck?

GeekRad said...

Well said anon. Billie you can run but you can not hide. We will not give up until you and Shawn pay for murdering your daughter.

Shelley said...

Billies comment on the petition...


To take a murderer off the streets, to have answers, and get my daughter back once and for all.” - Billie Jean Dunn, Austin, 10/18/13



She can't even own that short sentence.


Turtle said...

Well at least you are here reading anon 12:46

Kellie said...

OT

Sierra LaMar defendant pleads not guilty to murder

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_25135697/sierra-lamar-defendant-pleads-not-guilty-murder

Doty said...

I think LE held on to Hailey for so long to put pressure on the suspects (BD + sa). When evidence is gotten from remains it is presented in court through photographs, reports, DNA analysis, expert testimony, etc). I've never seen the ACTUAL remains displayed in court, so this isn't why LE held onto Hailey for so long. I think Hailey deserves to rest in peace now and find it repulsive that her body remained in some LE freezer for so long. BD is never going to confess. did LE actually think she'd confess to get Hailey's body back? BD is a sociopath and didn't care about Hailey Then or Now.

Logical said...

Hailey is no longer HERE. LE is not holding her. Scriptures tell us that the body is merely a shell, a tent, in which our spirit resides. When the body dies, our spirit departs. Thanks to bad parenting, all that remains of Hailey is a shell. When Hailey died, her soul transcended above, to rest in peace.

Because we know that the believer (& death of the innocent) go to the presence of the Lord, we shouldn't have to grieve as others... who have "no hope" do.

The memorial was held in Hailey's memory/honor, to pay respects and to help the living heal/find closure. Remember that the mother of Hailey did not want to allow everyone to attend.

People feel grief because they are selfish and are not ready to let go of the idea that they will no longer have the loved one in their lives.

My opinion only. No insult intended.

Sella35 said...

“I’m hoping they are going to see she is still very important not just to the family but to the public as well,” Dunn said. “We want to see someone punished, we want to know what happened to her and we want her back.” snipped from http://www.oaoa.com/news/article_0a8c99ee-ab00-11e3-9227-001a4bcf6878.html

She makes me sick...as a mother, I think she could say her daughters name. Instead of "she" and "her" when referring to her child. She also said "WE"...their would be no "we" as an innocent mother, I would OWN the statement myself. I would say I WANT...Actually I would say I DEMAND.... her saying we and want.../bleh

She also says "someone" why just someone? If it were me, I would want the murderer punished, not just someone!

She also says, We want to know what happened to her....really!! As a parent, you would want to know the gruesome details? Not if you are a loving caring parent. You would not want to know the pain and horror. You would want to think that she did not suffer. You would not want to relive the pain the child went through. I think this is fair to say, as many times parents never know until the case goes to trial. (THIS is just my opinion based on other murder cases where innocent parents have said, I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW and only find out in court).

I am confused why the egg donor and the accomplice are not both in jail on nothing other than the child porn. In Texas they should be sitting in jail awaiting trial on child porn charges that could give them both a life time of years in prison. I believe in Tx they both could get ten years per every child porn image.

Other words of interest- Hoping, still, very..not just....but....

Sally said...

Logical said...
Hailey is no longer HERE. LE is not holding her. Scriptures tell us that the body is merely a shell, a tent, in which our spirit resides. When the body dies, our spirit departs.

I believe in the same.

S + K Mum said...

BJD is getting brave again....what she really wants to know is 'do the investigators know exactly what happened to Hailey?' She wants to know if they know what they (her and SA) did to her. It does seem to be taking a long time but I hope it's because they are being meticulous and building a strong case against the two of them.

OT McCanns
I find it strange that they were allowed to ask the public for information that has been given to investigators....I thought judicial secrecy would have come into play- I may be wrong. It's obvious they just wanted to know what info was given because they weren't being told. I would be interested to find out how much of the information that they received directly was passed on to the official investigation. How many investigations do this couple need? You can take everything that we know about the McCanns away and still come to the conclusion that Madeleine was not abducted- all that money, all the PR stunts, all the investigations, worldwide publicity....and nothing! Not even one single piece of evidence to support an abduction. And more importantly - can anyone see an end to this in sight?

john said...

OT Update:

Pond clear in search for Myra Lewis.

http://www.wlox.com/story/24968111/pond-clear-in-search-for-myra-lewis

Nic said...

Hailey Dunn's remains not being released is more than strange, just like how the rest of this case has been processed/investigated.

LE have their reason for not doing so; however, once the remains have been documented and everything analyzed and recorded, what would be the point of keeping Hailey being put to rest and allowing the family and community closure? LE can 'seal' the evidence until such time as they want to prosecute (whomever). Obviously not Dunn or Atkins because there's nothing left to observe in their behavior to "tell" LE what happened/where Hailey is. Hailey has been found. So? What's left? LE can keep bone, hair, etc., samples for future testing. They can image the remains via multiple format and even "cast" bone surfaces, etc.

The remains would be physically released to a funeral home for 'preparation' not the parents per se. Hailey's funeral would not be an open casket for the simple fact that there is nothing to 'view'.

Like everything else around Hailey Dunn's case, there is nothing LE is doing that satisfies the "why" they won't... Hailey's case appears to be "an exception" all the way around. It is really obvious that it is being stonewalled by somebody.

"Why won't they" is the mantra of this case.

jmo

Anonymous said...

I personally know the people running this case, they have to keep it quiet, but they know what they are doing. Can't take it to trial if there's a chance uneducated jurors would set them free

Anonymous said...

Snipped from http://www.oaoa.com/news/article_0a8c99ee-ab00-11e3-9227-001a4bcf6878.html

Calls to Wilson at the Scurry County Sheriff’s Office were referred to the FBI Thursday. The FBI reported no new developments on the case.

Billie has been told several times that the FBI is in charge, but she still harasses Sheriff Wilson nonstop.

Why did she lie to that lady and have her send to the petition to the wrong Department.


So sick of her, now this Allen lady has egg all on her face, 700 signatures sent to the wrong place thanks to Billie Dumb Dumb.

Turtle said...

Anonymous 9:39 thank you for that bit of insight. I just hope they are looking at the two people I think they should be looking at.

Nic said...

Anonymous said...
I personally know the people running this case, they have to keep it quiet, but they know what they are doing. Can't take it to trial if there's a chance uneducated jurors would set them free

March 14, 2014 at 9:39 AM


Anonymous, "uneducated jurors" has nothing to do with why Hailey's remains can't be released for burial. In fact, if what you report is true regarding "uneducated jurors" and they have stymied arrests/prosecution because of that, then I call b.s. Making that kind of judgement call just reiterates my stonewall theory. The community wants peace for Hailey and her murderer/s brought to justice. IMO, prosecution would have zero problem finding a very large pool of educated jurors from that community - or an outside community if defense felt their clients wouldn't get a "fair" trial and had it moved to another area.

Let the evidence speak. God knows there is a plethora of it.

Unless LE is worried that BJD will have the remains cremated (everything and anything "remaining" lost/destroyed). But if they carefully document and keep samples of bone, tissue, etc., cremation shouldn't have to factor into the equation of "why won't they...".



ima.grandma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ima.grandma said...

I found Q&A going back and forth on the Hope for Hailey site with commenter(s) asking if tips, concerns, etc. should be sent to the FBI. The H4H admin said no, she should not and instructed her to send them to Scurry County instead.

Hi GeekRad, your community benefits from your voice.

GeekRad said...

Hi Ima.grandma. The Hope For Hailey group have tended to have to stick their heads in the sand and seem to want to keep things local. They are Billie supporters. The Scurry County Sherrif's department is referring calls to the FBI and quotes from the FBI spokeswoman ask that people call the FBI or Crime Stoppers with leads. The FBI has the lead. Anon who knows the people running the investigation may want to weigh in and confirm?

Sella35 said...

“I’m hoping they are going to see she is still very important not just to the family but to the public as well,” Dunn said. “We want to see someone punished, we want to know what happened to her and we want her back.” snipped from http://www.oaoa.com/news/article_0a8c99ee-ab00-11e3-9227-001a4bcf6878.html

Another thing, THE family..not her family or our family, but THE family....

Hobnob said...

well spotted Sella

john said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I know someone in LE close to the case and the thought is enough evidence to arrest, not quite enough to prosecute. Also as far as remains go my understanding is theres still hope to find more since her remains were so incomplete. Maybe they are holding remains they have in hopes of collecting more, for lack of a better word, to maybe continue putting the puzzle together and have solid evidence. If currents remains released and cremated and THEN more remains gathered it would be tough to piece the puzzle together with tangible remains and only photo remains. Just my two cents. Justice for Hailey!

Anonymous said...

The lawsuits have got to be in the works. No arrest and the remains have not been returned. That is illegal, even in Texas where law enforcement has very little oversight. Billie Dunn has people with deep pockets in her corner. Slander lawsuits may be forthcoming as well. I hope Peter has a good attorney on retainer!

Anonymous said...

Billie Dunn has people with deep pockets in her corner.


pockets full of bull$hit. why didnt these so called people make an effort to help financially in the past three years????

M G A said...

I do not have "egg on my face" as someone stated above. The petition has been mailed to many locations, law enforcement agencies, news agencies, state's attorneys, etc - not just the Scurry County Sheriff's Office. I have already posted this on another thread, but in case some didn't see it, I will post it here again. I am sorry if it is a repeat for others. I hope it answer some of your questions regarding the petition, it's purpose, and the goal. :)

1. The petition took 6 months to get the signatures because I let it die over the holidays - I went away and then had a family emergency. When I got back on track I got 300 in 2 days.
2. The petition says "we" because it's a petition - all the signers are "making the statement." 700 people = we. It is not "Billie" speaking on the petition - again, I wrote it. I was speaking for a group - for all who want Hailey's case solved.
3. I could have got many more signatures, I stopped because I wanted it to get to LE on the anniversary of Hailey's body being found. Marc Klaas, who I spoke to, posted the petition on his KlaasKid's Page and signed it, which helped bump it to the 700. My initial goal was only 500.
4. No, the petition was not created by Billie. I created it. I did get the OK from her since she is Hailey's mother and as far as I know hasn't been convicted of anything.
5. Clint was part of the petition also - it wasn't just "give Billie the remains" - both parents wish to bury their child.
6. I have no idea who killed Hailey. That isn't my job. What I do know is that whoever did is still walking the streets and needs to be arrested. That was my intention of the petition - get Hailey's case back in the news, get her name on people's lips, get the attention to the case so Hailey can get the justice she deserves.
7. If the petition, as silly and insignificant people are saying it is, gets a fire under LE's butt, pressures the guilty a bit, does anything to help this investigation - then to me it was successful.
8. Finally, again, I created the petition, I managed it, I mailed it. No, I do not know Billie, the family, or have any interest outside of seeing a little girl whose life was taken away from her too early and tragically get laid to rest and her killer punished. That is all.
~ Michele Gouveia Allen

Kellie said...

Hailey's bones are evidence in an open case. I imagine they can be held indefinitely. I would love to think they are still holding them because charges and a trial are coming.

BJD said - “I was hoping that Scurry County would get on the ball and not be put in a negative light. I wanted them to have all the evidence. But it’s been a year, we can get some lab work back and it’s enough to get a conviction.”

UN beliEVE able. So now she knows exactly what is needed to get a conviction. And who is WE? So she "agreed" to let them hold the remains BECAUSE she wants them to get all the evidence possible. But now she has decided they have enough evidence. It's no longer important to get "all they can". Everything that woman says is manufactured by her screwed-up thinking to make her seem NOT guilty. She really believes she has the ability to deceive others at will. She REALLY believes that.

Anonymous said...

Who knows? The body left in the elements for so long, all those searchers with their psychics and dogs...maybe there's some chemical element they can't explain for whatever reason. A new "lesson" the world needs to learn at everyone's expense.

They can't ever just solve one case; they have to capture every drug dealer,every unfit person near children and rule over politics at the same time. It ain't easy being cheesy.