Wednesday, March 19, 2014

Statement Analysis: Moorers' Defense Attorneys

The following article is from Myhorrynews.com

I have highlighted the quotes and added statement analysis in bold type.

When a defense attorney believes his client "didn't do it", the attorney makes this 'front and center' in language:  it is dominant in his mind, and dominant in his speech.  We look for an attorney who believes in his client to make this statement, early, and often, if necessary, and initially, without the support of additional words.   

We look to hear "didn't do it" in the language of the two attorneys.  

Article from Myhorrynews.com:


Prosecutors at a bond hearing Monday argued an Horry County couple charged with murdering Heather Elvis should be denied bond because of their travel connections, steps they’ve taken to move to Florida and threats of violence attorneys say they’ve made since the disappearance of the 20-year-old woman on Dec. 17, 2013.


But defense attorneys countered that the evidence against Sidney Moorer, 38, and his wife, Tammy Moorer, 42, is highly circumstancial and, in some cases, fabricated.

The case is extremely circumstantial at best and there is a severe lack of evidence,” Kirk Truslow, attorney for Sidney Moorer, said. “Quite honestly since it is a murder warrant, I thought I would see some evidence of his guilt of murder.”

Note that the shortest sentences are best.  For example:

Strong:  "The case is circumstantial"

Weakened:  "The case is extremely circumstantial"

Strong:  "There is a lack of evidence"

Weakened:  "there is a severe lack of evidence"

Note next that he uses the expression, "honestly" which is often indication of something 'less than honest', but then adds the word "quite" to it.  

Dishonest people, when wishing to be believed, will use this phrase.  

Others, bound by laws of confidentiality, will also employ the word "honestly", but often by itself, as they must withhold some information.  This includes those in the medical and legal professions.  It is a common phrase, often associated with deceptive people.  Please recall the teaching:  it can be a phrase of 'politely' deceptive people, who were raised to falsely flatter. 

Note that pronouns are instinctive.  It is not expected to hear a defense attorney say "his guilt", giving ownership of guilt to his client, if the attorney believes his client 'didn't do it.'

Please note that there is a difference between being judicially "innocent" and "didn't do it."

In cases where attorneys believe that their client did not do it, we often find a statement expressing it in simple terms, standing upon its own strength, with no need for emphasis or qualifiers, especially early on.  As evidence mounts, and doubt creeps in, we find the need for emphasis. 

Where doubt is very strong, we often find hyperbole enter.    

After more than two hours of testimony, Circuit Judge Steven John denied bond for the Moorers after expressing concern that the Socastee couple might not return to court to face murder and kidnapping charges.

Judge John also considered the potential for more violence in the community if the couple is released.
More than 200 other people, including members of the Moorer and Elvis families, packed a heavily-secured Horry County courtroom Monday to find out if the man and woman charged in connection with Elvis’ disappearance would be released on bond.

In related matters, John also said he will act as the chief administrative judge in the case until when or if the case gets reassigned to another judge.

Sidney and Tammy Moorer are charged with kidnapping and murder in connection with Elvis’ disappearance. They were previously charged with obstruction of justice and two counts of indecent exposure.

John said he might reconsider setting a bond if more evidence is presented.

Elvis disappeared some time after 6 a.m. Dec. 18. Her car was found at Peachtree Boat Landing in the Socastee area after a citizen reported its presence at about 5:47 p.m. Dec. 19, according to public records.

New details

Monday’s hearing shined more light on the relationship between Heather Elvis and Sidney Moorer and the alleged harassment from Tammy Moorer after she discovered the relationship.
Deputy solicitor Donna Elder told the court that Tammy and Sidney Moorer were having sexual relations in different locations around the Myrtle Beach area at about the same time Elvis disappeared.

This may prove to be a sadist case where Tammy Moorer, viewed through the lens of her violent language, is sexually aroused by danger, violence, and perhaps, even the memory of the murder itself.  

This leads me to wonder if some evidence associated with the case is 'trophy' or memorial-like in nature.  Did they video tape or take pictures that will become evidence in the case?

Elder also said Tammy Moorer also handcuffed her husband, Sidney, to the bed and didn’t allow him to use the phone because she couldn’t trust him after Sidney had a relationship with Elvis.

More dominance by Tammy Moorer, also opening an understanding into the terror that Heather may have encountered. 

Tammy Moorer’s attorney Greg McCollum pointed out during the hearing that Tammy, a lifelong resident of Socastee, has no prior record and a strong faith in the justice system.

“She doesn’t even have a traffic ticket,” he said. “She has a strong belief in the courts and looks forward to the point when she can face and answer the charges against her.

This is also to avoid saying "she didn't do it."

We know that she is "innocent" judicially, but it is up to him to tell us that not only does she not have a traffic ticket, but more importantly, she didn't do it.  If he is unable or unwilling to tell us this, we will not say it for him. 


Kirk Truslow, Sidney Moorer’s attorney, said his client has a very limited criminal record with only one shoplifting charge dating back a few years.

Moorer paid a small fine to satisfy that charge. Truslow said the indecent exposure charges stemmed from sexual encounters Moorer had with his wife around the time of Elvis’ disappearance.

My client was interviewed for long periods of time after Ms. Elvis disappeared, and during that time he mentioned to law enforcement that he had marital relations with his wife in his vehicle,” he said. “Months later they took his statement and obtained an arrest warrant for indecent exposure.

Note that "mentioned" is a soft word, as if by chance, or casually done.  If he was interviewed for hours, it would be extensive, and the topic of sex is generally not something just "mentioned" but intensely explored, particularly since a young woman of whom he had an affair with, was missing.  

Note the need for minimization by the attorney. 

Note that it was months later that they took "his statement", that is, to not deny what was in the statement but to affirm, and were able to obtain an arrest warrant. 

This was sharp investigatory work; old fashioned "police work" that can be very effective, particularly the use of lesser charges and separating Sidney from the domineering Tammy. 



The relationship

During the hearing, prosecutor Donna Elder shared details of the relationship between Elvis and Sidney Moorer, as well as a timeline leading up to the night she disappeared. She called Elvis’ killing “premeditated.”'

"premeditated" speaks to planning.  Tammy was the leader of the two. Tammy expressed open rage and hatred of Heather, while "missing", which is not something the guilty generally do.  (see "mea culpa" analysis)

Regarding cold blooded murder:  Profiling from the 1980's and 1990's often concluded that one could not simply 'graduate' to murder.  News stories, regularly, debunk this.  "Hot blooded" murders 

Elder said Elvis and Sidney Moorer had a relationship from July to October of 2013.

Sidney and Heather did care about each other,” she said. Then Tammy found out about it.

"Then" is a passage or skipping over  of time.  Between the care expressed, and the murder, we have the gap of time:  premeditation.  

Her language is consistent. 


According to Elder, Tammy Moorer sent Elvis an explicit and threatening text message Nov. 1 telling her she had found out about the affair that had happened earlier in the year.

Elder said Elvis responded to Tammy Moorer saying, “I’m nobody you need to worry about anymore.”

It may be:  

Heather attempted to distance herself, but the rageful, aging jilted former groupie to the rock stars could not bear the younger, beautiful Heather helping Sidney break control.

No phone calls or text messages were exchanged between the Moorers and Elvis between Nov. 5 and Dec. 17, the night before the 20-year-old disappeared. Elder said on the night of Dec. 17, Elvis returned home from a date.

This information is based on GPS from her phone,” she said.

Elder then presented new details in a timeline of events leading up to Elvis’ disappearance.

At 1:35 a.m. on Dec. 18, Elder said Sidney Moorer called Elvis from a payphone. Not long after that phone call, Elvis phoned a friend in Florida to tell her that Sidney wanted to get back together with her, the prosecutor said.

At 2:29 a.m., Elvis returned the call, but no one answered. At 3:16 a.m., Elvis repeatedly tried to call Sidney Moorer’s cell phone with no response.

Elder said at 3:17 a.m., Elvis had a four-minute conversation with someone on Sidney’s cell phone. At that point, GPS showed that Elvis was still at home and Moorer’s cell phone was still at the Moorer home.

Elder said after the conversation, Elvis drove to the Peachtree Boat Landing.

We know this because of the GPS coordinates from her phone,” Elder told the judge.

At 3:38 a.m., Elvis tried to call Sidney Moorer three more times, Elder continued. All phone data ended for Heather Elvis’ cell phone at 3:41 a.m.

The original missing persons police report from Dec. 19, 2013 said Terry Elvis showed police T-Mobile phone records indicating phone activity between Heather Elvis and Sidney Moorer as late as 6 a.m. Dec. 18. Lt. Robert Kegler, spokesman for Horry County police, said Tuesday afternoon that 3:41 a.m. is now the time police say when all phone data ended.

The information [Donna Elder] gave is the information that I can give out,” Kegler said. “The original police report is just that. That’s what was known at the time. Other things have come out since then, which was said yesterday in court.”

Solicitor Jimmy Richardson agreed, saying the 6 a.m. time was a “roundabout figure.

That was just a really preliminary report that was sent out,” Richardson said. “We believe that by 6 a.m., Heather Elvis was already in harm’s way.”

When asked how Elvis died, Richardson said a cause of death has not been determined. “If we had a body, maybe we could determine the matter of death. We don’t know the manner of death and we may never know the manner of death,” he said.

Surveillance video

Elder said police were able to recover surveillance video from a private residence and a business that shows a dark Ford F150 truck driving from the direction of the Moorer home to the boat landing and back between 3:36 a.m. to 3:46 a.m.

The S.C. Highway Patrol MAIT (Multidisciplinary Accident Investigation Team) helped identify the vehicle shown on surveillance video.

“We ran all registered vehicles fitting the description the MAIT team gave us and there were 82 that matched,” she said.

Horry County police went out and visually inspected all of the vehicles except one that belonged to the Moorers. At that time, police obtained a search warrant.

Elder said once Tammy Moorer discovered the affair between Elvis and her husband, which Elder said lasted between June and October 2013, Tammy Moorer began handcuffing her husband to the bed and wouldn’t allow him to use the telephone.

One may wish to learn how it is that the male was unable to be "allowed" to use the phone. 

Elder said during initial interviews with police, the Moorers admitted to going to different areas of the Myrtle Beach area in the early morning hours of Dec. 18 after Elvis’ disappearance to have sexual relations. Those incidents led to the indecent exposure charges. Elder said police also interviewed the Moorers’ three children.

“They have been extremely coached and even then their stories conflict,” she said.

Coaching can be a form of emotional abuse of children, as it leaves them with anxiety, concerned about "letting down" their parents.  Children do not understand why parents would coach them to "lie" when they are told to "tell the truth" while growing up.  This leads to early and acute confusion. 


Elder said she believes the Moorers set Elvis up to be at the Peachtree Boat Landing, met her there, kidnapped her and disposed of her body.

this has been what has been discussed:  if she was, indeed, set up, it stands to reason that the leader, the one who would not "allow" Sidney to use the phone, orchestrated the murder.  Perhaps Sidney, free from Tammy's domination, will come clean and give up the remains. 


The prosecution did not say how Elvis was killed.

A police officer on routine patrol noticed the vehicle at the boat landing around 4 p.m. Dec. 18, Elder said, but the vehicle wasn’t investigated because Heather Elvis wasn’t considered a missing person at that point.

When police on patrol checked the landing, they found Heather’s car locked. There was no crime scene there and no personal belongings,” she said. “Police didn’t think anything was wrong until Heather was reported missing.

Elder said investigators have not been able to recover Elvis’ keys, phone or purse.

We have had divers all around the area and even worked with Coastal Carolina University to get an ultrasound of the river all the way down to Winyah Bay,” she said.

Elder showed pictures, posted after Elvis’ disappearance, of Tammy and Sidney Moorer with guns.
She also gave the Moorers’ travel record and said they talked about moving or buying land in Florida. She also told the court about financial information that conflicted with loan applications and income tax forms.

Defense disputes prosecutors

Horry County Police Chief Saundra Rhodes also asked the judge to deny bond.
Rhodes told John that the Moorers have called police 39 times since Heather Elvis vanished.

Most of the calls were threats made to them on social media,” she said. “We have spent hundreds of hours on this case and immeasurable resources investigating it.”

Rhodes said she thinks the Moorers might pose a threat to the community if they were released.

“When we responded to their home, we were often met by an armed Sidney Moorer and if released, in my opinion, we will have more violent confrontations,” the chief said.

Heather Elvis’ father Terry Elvis also asked the judge to deny bond.

“We have put our life on hold and we are now asking you to protect our youngest daughter,” he said. 

I am afraid that threats to my family will get worse if bond is allowed.”

We all are drawn to those we have commonality with; including those drawn to support Tammy Moorer and Sidney Moorer. This was a wise statement by Terry Elvis. 

But Truslow, Sidney Moorer’s attorney, said most of the evidence the state presented was “fabricated.

He also called the state’s case against the Moorers highly circumstantial.

There is a severe lack of evidence in this case. There is no evidence that he was at the boat landing or in that vehicle,” Truslow said. “There is no evidence that he was involved in a murder or kidnapping. There is evidence that he had an affair with a younger woman that ended in October. This thing has snowballed into an outrageous witch hunt where there is no real evidence.”

McCollum, Tammy Moorer’s attorney, said when police executed the search warrant on the Moorers’ home, Tammy Moorer was very cooperative and spoke freely to them.

“She consented to police to search and look at things,” he said.

Note that he separates "search" from "look at things."  What "things" does he refer to?  How is this different than things seen or found during a "search."

Does this suggest some form of video or photographic evidence on the phone, or other device, that the Moorers kept?

Waccamaw Publishers has requested the search warrants and search warrant results from the magistrate who signed the warrants, but the request was denied.
After the hearing, supporters wearing Team Heather shirts filled the halls.
Melissa Gray, one of the supporters, said she and her family and friends have worked tirelessly searching for Heather Elvis and helping the Elvis family at the tip tent.
The tip tent has been set up at the Socastee Swing Bridge and on S.C. 544 at Mill Pond Road in order to take possible leads and tips from the public in regards to Elvis’ whereabouts.

“We want to find Heather,” she said. “We have helped at the tip tent almost every weekend since she disappeared.”

Carolina Forest Chronicle editor Michael Smith contributed to this report.

229 comments:

1 – 200 of 229   Newer›   Newest»
Apple said...

That truck was at the boat landing for such a short time. What befell Heather? Where is she?
Justice will come.

S + K Mum said...

I hope they have pinpointed all the locations the Moorers were having their marital relations and searched them.

S + K Mum said...

I'm curious what the Moorer children were coached about......parents whereabouts, parents relationship, home life? And what those children have overheard? I feel awful for those children but I think they know a lot (need for coaching) that would help the investigation. Tammy and Sidney really didn't care about their own kids either. Sidney may have a conscience about this but I don't think Tammy will.

Nic said...

...Elder said during initial interviews with police, the Moorers admitted to going to different areas of the Myrtle Beach area in the early morning hours of Dec. 18 after Elvis’ disappearance to have sexual relations. Those incidents led to the indecent exposure charges.

Wow.

I recently posted this on TM's reasons "I love" Sidney thread, but maybe it should be here, too.

_______

This is a third-party "quote" but it is interesting how the author repeated what Tammy Moorer told her:

"Tammy Caison Moorer insists that the only thing she and her husband are guilty of is "loving Disney" -- ... But going to Disneyland and appreciating the many beloved characters have absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of Heather Elvis"

Framed is "are guilty"

Did Tammy say, "The only thing Sidney and I are guilty of is...."

She put her *and* him together with guilt.

Additionally, Disney is what they love. Not each other. (absolutely not/hing) Heather. (sensitive)

Absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of Heather Elvis.

"are guilty..disappearance of Heather Elvis."

Disneyland (her word or author's?)

Change in reality Disney/Disney*land* It's Disney*land* when "having absolutely nothing to do" (weakened many times) with Heather's disappearance.

There is Disneyland and Disney (cruise) which she has posted her love of over and over again. Why say land? Is Heather in the ground and not water? Is there an amusement park or sorts around there? What was the shopping area they exposed themselves at?

jmo

http://www.chelseahoffman.com/2014/01/exclusive-interview-chelsea-talks-to.html

Nic said...

Across from 1325 Celebrity Circle (as per the indecent exposure arrest warrant) is Pavilion Nostalgia Park (an amusement park).

http://www.broadwayatthebeach.com/entertainment-details.aspx?mapid=154&type=entertainment&nm=Pavilion-Nostalgia-Park

Deejay said...

There is a very short time period- a few minutes- between when Moorer's car is seen coming and going from the beach or dock area. (from someone's home security camera along the route.) It is the exact same time as Heather's phone stops making calls or pinging. They either killed Heather and hid her body very quickly (2 minutes??) or took her with them (either alive or dead) in their car. What slime!

elf said...

Ok. Here's my theory based on the evidence released and what we've all learned so far.
Sidney and Heathers affair lasted from June 2013 through October 2013. Sidney had to end it because Tammy found out. Tammy is mad, hurt,jealous, etc. Tammy wants revenge. Sidney signs an.agreement with Tammy to be under her constant supervision, handcuffed to a bed while Tammy is asleep, Tammy takes Sidney's cell phone and puts a password so Sidney has no phone privileges and I'm guessing this signed contract occurred on November 5,2013 when 'dad' no longer owns a phone. Sidney is not happy with any of this but he's been under Tammy's thumb for so long. When Sidney is cuffed at night he probably had thoughts of how heather made him feel and the differences between his wife and his younger ex lover. Tammy has the key to his heart but Tammy has the key to the cuffs. December 18th Sidney has an opportunity away from his wife/captor and calls heather from a payphone, his mind is made up, he wants heather and freedom (who wouldn't after being cuffed every night for a month?). Heather is taken off guard, calls her friend, tells her what's goin on (omg conversation) and she's gotta get ready cuz Sidney is calling back or she is supposed to call Sidney at the payphone. Less than an hour from Sidney's initial call from the payphone heather calls. She can't wait. She waits for over 30 minutes for Sidney to call back and gets anxious, calls Sidney's cell phone. Tammy sees this, because Sidney doesn't have control of his phone, for all we know he could have already been cuffed for the night. Tammy puts the cellphone on speaker so she can hear, I bet she had a gun on him, and had Sidney tell heather to meet him at the landing hell tell her everything then. Tammy leaves Sidney cuffed to the bed, jumps in the truck with her gun(Sidney's gun?). Tammy pulls up at the landing, heather is already out of her car, waiting for Sidney when she sees his headlights, its dark and all she can see is headlights. Tammy gets out, just a large shape. Heather is close to the river when Tammy fires and falls back onto the water. Tammy jumps in her truck and speeds home to tell Sidney what she did for him so he could have his freedom.

elf said...

Should have been *heather holds the keys to his heart, Tammy has the keys to the cuffs

jenbee said...

I think they brought Heather into the car with them and forced her to watch their "relations" as a way for Tammy to rub it in that Sidney is HERS. I believe her body is at one of these other locations, or was disposed of at one of the other locations. What could the police have that proves she is dead, though?

Rachael said...

So it would seem that one of two things happened with her phone, as the GPS was ON:

1) Whoever was in that truck turned off or destroyed her phone prior to leaving the landing, or

2) Her phone never left the general area of the landing (went into the water?)

There was so much activity there, in such a small window of time.

The level of organization required scares the heck out of me.

Anonymous said...

S + K Mum,

I've wondered what they've learned from the kids. Probably a lot given the ages. One thing I'm very curious about, did the family always sleep together? Or did that start sometime after the disappearance, if so when?

Anonymous said...

Apologies, I posted that in the wrong place. Longtime reader finally choosing to post and I don't know what I'm doing :)

elf said...

Another thought is maybe Tammy ran the truck into heather pushing her into the river and heather was to injured to swim.

elf said...

Just for the record I'm saying Sidney is innocent. He needs to tell what he knows. I just think Tammy is the 'trigger man'.

Suzanne said...

Elf, you should write for the Lifetime network! Your post reads like a made-for-tv-movie. Loved it.

Kellie said...

Checking my understanding... The addition of adjectives, as in "there is a severe lack of evidence" indicates the speakers need to convince? It reveals a doubt within the speaker? Not necessarily a lie, but merely the speakers lack of belief in what he's saying?

Anonymous said...

ok so they kept the elvis supporters separate from the moorer supporters having them all escorted out of the court room seperately, and the news also made a big deal out of the drama.... so i am wondering, are they going to keep the blacks and the whites separate in courthouses now too?

Anonymous said...

did tammy have her own gun? is it accounted for or is it missing too?
if sidney was the one doing the house work after working all day, but tammy was cuffing him to the bed, how was he suppose to do the house work?

Anonymous said...

This is a sad case, I feel sorry most for those 3 kids who did no wrong in any of this! Heather knew what she was doing when she went after a man she knew was married, and she bragged about it on her social media. Sidney was married with 3 kids, he knew better, he didn't think of those kids when he made the choice to give in to her advances. Did she deserve to die? NO she didn't. But her actions led up to it, as it led up to those 3 kids now without their parents. She didn't think of the kids either. She did have a brain and knew she was breaking up a family and was proud of it. Tammy lost it when she found out. She went to extreme measures to keep her family together for it all to end with her and Sidney in prison. All this talk of Sidney was in love with Heather, had feelings, is ridiculous, she was his booty call. How that night went down is strange, but the time frame from when Tammy found out to the disappearance is not all that long. If she found out at the end of October that gave her a little bit more than a month to stew about it and learn more about what all went on between them two and the tragic ending for all involved. Sidney is not innocent, he was a selfish man who did not think about his kids. Heather was not innocent, she did not care to think about those little kids and their home she was so proud to break up. Tammy obviously is not innocent, she lost her mind when all this happened. What I think happened is Sidney and Tammy were constantly arguing over what happened, and that led up to a night of anger between them both towards Heather and the plot to lure her to the landing for Tammy to give her the big fat punch in the face along with a piece of her mind she deserved for going after her husband, so she could get it out of her system to move on and she ended up killing her and tossing her in the water with her belongings. I don't believe Tammy was this big monstrous evil person that everyone thinks she is before this happened, I think she lost her mind after the affair. I hope Sidney is sitting in that cell feeling tremendous guilt for what all that has happened because he could not keep his pants on outside of his marriage and put a booty call before his family. Maybe that guilt will eat him up enough to tell what happened so Heathers family can have closure.

Nic said...

Anonymous @2:25

They might have swabbed Tammy and Sidney's hands for gun powder residue and if positive, the analysis would tell them that the firearm was fired and why they assumed Heather met harms way/is dead. For all we know, Heather's demise was caught on video.

Was TM and SM caught on video having sex or did someone see them? If video (because they were in and around and amusement park and the businesses around them would have video surveillance, then they would see if Heather was still with them or not.

The picture depicted of Tammy holding the gun and sneering whilst possessively holding Sidney makes me think that she pulled the trigger. Or were they reenacting what had played out earlier? Did Tammy have her gun to Heather's head?

It bugs me that Sidney is truly smiling. It's not like his mouth is smiling and his eyes aren't.

Nic said...

What does it mean when people allow someone to take a picture of them on the toilet?

http://moorermurdertrial.com/sidney-moorer-photos-part-one/

According to the comment section this bathroom is up the road from where TM and SM got caught having sex in public... and where SM allegedly had sex according to the poster (someone who had access to SM's social media at one time?)

Nic said...

*not poster, a commentator

Sus said...

Ten minutes to get to PTL and back bothers me immensely. That means there was no time to take Heather elsewhere, yet there were no signs of murder at PTL. Strangulation would take longer than the ten minutes with the drive back. Did they grab her and take her back to their house? It sounds like they had to of.

Sus said...

It is obvious to me that Tammy Moorer included her entire family in "taking down" Heather Elvis and Sidney Moorer. Their affair threatened her self concept.

I'm positive those children heard all about how their father was going to break up the family from Tammy. Of course, she really meant break apart her dream world. Those children were probably encouraged to shame and guard Sidney for his infidelity. I believe the text to Heather that says "...Dad doesn't have a phone anymore" was by one of the Moorer children with encouragement from Tammy.

A narcissist does not care who they hurt or who gets in their path of destruction, only that they protect their false self.

elf said...

Thanks lol

JoAnn said...

"...the Moorers admitted to going to different areas of the Myrtle Beach area during the early morning hours of Dec. 18 after Elvis' disappearance, to have sexual relations."

Sidney "mentioned" to police that he and his wife had sex in their vehicle during the early hours of Dec. 18. Was he also coached (by Tammy) to let this info slip so police would look for surveillance? Did they deliberately have sex in view of a surveillance camera, hoping this would provide an alibi? Maybe they didn't expect police to be able to pinpoint the time that Heath drove to PL quite so accurately.
The possibility that the murder stimulated TM sexually is pretty high, when you consider the sadistic/masochistic nature of the TM/SM relationship. A sadistic murder coupled with her victory over her rival (young & beautiful Heather, who had stolen her husband's affection & came close to taking away her submissive partner, her "bitch") would be a powerful stimulant for a sexual sadist.
One location where they were exposing themselves to cameras was Broadway at the Beach (familiar to them, since the Tilted Kilt is located here). If you've been to Broadway at the Beach, you've seen that it's a series of boardwalk-like bridges & walkways that connect the shopping & dining areas. There are alligators in the water, or at least there were when I was there, although that was 10 yrs ago. People were throwing things in the water to feed them.

JoAnn said...

^^^did you see what I did there? I used an ellipsis. Lol

Jo said...

OT

According to one senior U.S. official, “It would be absolutely stunning if we have withheld anything.”

Attorney General Eric Holder, speaking at a news conference regarding the federal government's settlement with Toyota, said American authorities "are trying to offer whatever assistance that we can. But at this point, I don't think we have any theories that I could propound."

Holder said, "We will make available whatever resources that we have — whatever expertise we have that we might be able to, might be able to be used."


Doesn't sound like a strong denial to me.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/u-s-officials-deny-holding-back-missing-jet-n56701

Jo said...

Sorry, above is regarding missing Malaysian airplane.

JoAnn said...

Anon @ 4:13
Heather is a victim. Assigning blame to her is wrong, in my opinion. The blame for harm that befell & continues to befall these children in on the shoulders of their parents. Sidney was almost twice the age of Heather & I blame him for the affair as well. If a young, beautiful girl flirts with an older married man, it is his responsibility to turn away if he is a decent person & a good husband/father, the same way that it is the responsibility of the coach or teacher to keep appropriate boundaries between themselves & teenagers who are acting out flirtatiously. A twenty year old woman can be foolish & naive. If the world was a better place, older people would not take advantage of this.

Rachael said...

Sus, I've been wondering the same thing. I wonder what they pulled off of the surveillance video at the Moorer 'compound'.

Anonymous said...

JoAnn, you used it to fill in the missing part of a quote! Not within your own writing lol
C'mon, if people want to say the ellipses observation is insignificant, please at least tell me why you feel that way.

Kellie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

OT

Malaysian flight, thanks for the article!

“It would be absolutely stunning if we have withheld anything.”

Would be
Absolutely
Stunning
If if if
DECEPTION
Where is the "we have stayed everything we know"?
Note: we

"are trying to offer whatever assistance that we can. But at this point, I don't think we have any theories that I could propound."

Trying is not the same as doing
(Like I'm trying to get past my anxiety, because I haven't accomplished it)
At this point and but
(Negates and makes specific to right now)
Don't have any theories
(We always have theories about anything a la I have no idea)
Addition of think, indicates the struggle to lie imho.
That I could propound
(So it's not that they don't exist, he just can't propound).
Note: we I I

Holder said, "We will make available whatever resources that we have — whatever expertise we have that we might be able to, might be able to be used."

Will make available
(Not that we have, will is the wrong tense.)
Whatever expertise that we have
(Unsure about how to read this)
Might be able to, might be able
(Repeated, important. That's a giant maybe, reminds me of someone saying they might be able to lend me their car and instinctively I understand the answer is no. My skills are not fine tuned enough to break down the reason why I suggest this.)
Note: we we we

Only twice is I used. He is speaking as a representative so perhaps we makes sense? But the I, to me, then would show sensitivity as expressing points he takes personal ownership of.

Sus said...

Tammy and Sidney Moorer's actions are far beyond selfish, and far more damaging to the children they professed to love. Heather Elvis is a victim of their deviance just like the Moorer children are.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, they were all beyond selfish. If only any of them had any morals :(

JoAnn said...

Anonymous @ 5:03
Heather was only 20 years old!!! She was naive in the ways the world could hurt her, just like other young women. If she wasn't naive, she would never put on the uniform she was wearing, because with enough knowledge of the world, she would know that she could attract the eye of a predator in a place where many strangers come and go. There are a thousand ways in which she showed her naïveté. She got in her car at 3:30 am & drove to a deserted boat landing, trusting that the man she believed cared for her, would be there, and everything would be all right. That is naïveté. Heather is a victim, the people who disappeared her are to blame.

JoAnn said...

Anon @ 4:45,
The ellipsis observation seems like a manipulation to divert, sidetrack & confuse. A couple of texts & one other writing don't seem like enough to make a comparison as to the writer's grammatical style. That's my opinion.

If you are the same Anonymous who wants to point a finger anywhere but at Tammy Moorer, think it is all part & parcel of this need to divert.

It would help if you would pick a name.

JoAnn said...

Anon @ 5:32
Blaming the victim of a crime is a way of colluding with and supporting the abuser or perpetrator, in this case the Moorers.

Juliette said...

Anonymous said...5:32pm
I never said she wasn't a victim. I said her actions led to that night.
****
Sidney and Tammy's actions led to that night. They were the ones who are guilty.
Women who's husbands cheat them usually chose to leave their husband or get over it, not murder the person their husband cheated them with. Sidney chose to cheat, he had vows not Heather. Together they chose to murder Heather; they are responsible for their choice.

Anonymous said...

How is that racist statement relevant?

Nic said...

1325 Celebrity Circle, where the Moorers got caught being indecent is practically right next door to the Tilted Kilt (Heather's place of work) which is at 1317 Celebrity Circle.

Anonymous said...

I am not supporting the Moorers, I feel sorry for their children. Because of the actions of ALL of them, sorry I am not going to paint a pretty picture of part of the story. The whole thing is ugly and sad that a bunch of selfish actions from all of them led to this. Heather lost her life. Those kids lost their parents, sadly the kids didn't do anything for their world to be turned upside down as it has.

Anonymous said...

Yes they are responsible for their choice to murder her, I hope they are punished to the fullest extent. My opinion is its a shame Heather didn't make the choice not to meet a married man. She was playing with fire at that point. She knew how crazed Tammy was because of the affair. Obviously she didn't care about anyone's feelings but her own.

Nic said...

Regarding affairs.

If a "mutually exclusive" couple is having problems, then it should be dealt with between themselves. If they can't resolve the issue/s, separate. Then you are a *free agent*.

Stepping out on your spouse, making it look like you're available is *wrong*. It's deceptive. You're a fraud.

Sidney was in the wrong. He misrepresented himself as "available". / In an open marriage? I doubt it.

Given Tammy's napalm reaction and subsequent texts to Heather, he was not in an open marriage.

Sidney lied and was deceptive to Tammy. He lied to Heather (by making himself look available.) Sidney is a liar.

Being 20 today is not like being 20, 20 years ago. Today the girls have a different moral compass when it comes to relationships in general. Especially when it comes to how they are willing to be treated. (Look at YouTube/rap/music industry.)

Nobody knows what Sidney said to seduce Heather/keep her coming back. She was the impressionable one and the victim. In the truest sense. I say that because her next date was with an age appropriate, single, young man.

jmo




Nic said...

Sidney put Heather directly into harm's way with his actions. Regardless what happened between July and October, Sidney was the one who initiated contact with her after six weeks, and somehow lured her from the safe confines of her apartment in the middle of the night. She was ambushed and killed/relocated and then secreted.

Sidney initiated what when down and LE have determined that Tammy was his accomplice.

Heather moved on. Tammy hadn't/wouldn't and therefore Sidney couldn't.

jmo

Nic said...

Anonymous @ 6:16,

Yes, I did. Do you know what Sidney was suppose to say? "I'm married." End of discussion.

somanyways said...

it's becoming more clear that she knew Tammy was a threat, and if her only goal was to run to Sidney's arms why didn't she do it immegiately following the gas station call?

why would heather drive herself into such danger? an dark solitary rendezvous - when she had every reason to believe Tammy would be lurking to witness - at best. Heather told her friend and her dad that she was going on a date and then contacted them both to let them know how it was going went,

why would she not at least text a friend -- i'm meeting Mr. heartbreak at peachtree landing - if anything happens it's his wife.

why did she not indicate to anybody that she might need back up, or check in etc.

I think it's out of the ordinary. she seems impulsive but also street smart.

I think the moorers either got to her much earlier that night - and used her phone themselves when they abandoned her car there after getting rid of body,

or -- something else happened when heather went to somebody else to seek help.

Idon't believe she would drive into a situation she had every reason to know could be dangerous without contacting somebody she trusted to at very least let them know where she would be.

Nic said...

I think motive was about re-writing history. If you could "erase" the past, it's like it never happened.

jmo

Anonymous said...

I agree mostly with elf's thoughts. That's pretty much what I've been thinking. Sidney did call Heather. Heather called Sidney's phone, but Tammy had it.

I'm not so sure Heather was actually murdered right at the boat landing though. I know not all the evidence has been presented yet, but I would think blood of Heathers would have been mentioned during the bail hearing? Idk, maybe not?

Regarding Sidney and Tammy having sex all over the place that morning. I highly doubt it. I think they needed excuses for all the places they went that morning.

somanyways said...

I just think it's super unlikely she was actually killed at the landing.

if that truck driving to and fro is the moorers the turnaround time is just too fast for kidnapping a tough healthy 20yr old - and leaving no blood etc, and much less murder.

what it could be enought time for is picking one of them up after leaving the car there, say tammy picking up sidney when sidney signals with heathers phone -- after positioning the car to be discovered.

I don't feel like that's what happened. they don't strike me as that stealth. and cops would have picked up on some signs of violence inside car if that had been case. i'd think .

there's surely still scenerios where the moorers could have killed heather -- but this fast turnaround at landing doesn't sound likeit was it.

I think if she met with foul play it happened earlier that night

Anonymous said...

can anybody explain the timing discrepancy?

for so long they were saying the last calls were around 6 a.m. - now it's 3 something.

Which one is the correct timing and why the change?

thanks

JoAnn said...

Nic said,
She was the impressionable one and the victim.

Yes, she was. I agree with you that 20 today is very different from 20, 20 years ago. But no matter how sophisticated a veneer today's 20 year old might have, she is still no match for an older married man and his raging wife. At 20, girls are impressionable, like you said, and often more trusting than they should be.

I have a big problem with someone who blames a victim, no matter how they phrase it. Why the need to go on and on about the victim's behavior? The words and actions of Tammy Moorer and Sidney Moorer have
indicated what kind of people they are. The little bit of information stated in court paints a disturbing picture of their lives. I have nothing but compassion for Heather, the victim, and her family, the other victims.

Anonymous said...

So do the Moorers have a Ford 150?

Anonymous said...

Did Tammy have a stun gun too?

Anonymous said...

somanyways, I agree I dont understand why she would not have run to him after the payphone call. Why wait hours and then drive into a dark, dangerous spot?
It seems clear to me that her flurry of phone calls starting immediately after the payphone call (1st to the payphone, then to his cell, then frantic calls from the dock to his cell) indicate a desire for more info. Does this make sense? I feel like some kind of message was given to her from payphone, but she IMMEDIATELY tries to call back. Why? I feel like to ask questions, to get more info about something.
What did he say during phone call # 1 that led her to immediately need to speak to him again? Did he hang up on her, end the call before she could ask him something? What was it she needed to ask?

Anonymous said...

Well even at "today's 20" she new she was a home wrecker. She said so herself. Oh sorry, I forgot we are not suppose to talk about the entire case or others social media postings. Just Tammy's.

Truthseeker said...

Could someone else hired by the Moorers have killed her as she left her apartment, put her in her car, disposed of her, driven her car to the dock, parked it neatly, locked it, tried to call Sidney's phone from Hesther's phone to tell him the evil deed was done, simply jumped into the back or passenger side of pick up truck when Moorer truck pulled up, the truck turns around and leaves. This would explain the very short time the Moorer truck was at dock.

Former Anon changing name to Truthseeker

somanyways said...

I'm just really confured about time line. I thought she didn't call his cell back rt away but posted images online for a while and then called her roommate. and then even more time passed before she called again.

I think so much depends on precise timeline and rt now i can't figure out which account is it.

if it's all condensed -- then it really does look like the moorers succeeded in luring her out.

but how did it stretch across the whole night without at least a couple hours between these calls?

it might be the misinformation over the timeline that makes me think we don't have the whole story - tho granted either way we don't have whole story.

also it really throws me -- all three of these people are staying up aaalllll night? why? why does all of this - whatever it is take until morning -if it took until morning? don't these people get sleepy? ha. maybe i'm just sleepy. I can't imagine the energy it takes to have sex all over the city and do a kidnapping and murder and bury the body and wash clothes -- whatever had to happen -- all on no sleep.

I get it that amanda knox did it but she was an aethletic "kid". Tammy doesn't look like she's in good anough shape to do all of this!! I dunno . ha, I have no idea how they coulda pulled it off.

somanyways said...

I think if they hired somebody we'd have a hint of that by now. but dunno.

Anonymous said...

No one is a match against a full blown narcissist unless they've met and survived one before. Don't disparage the victim. I believe if she somehow had survived the attack she would be as wrought with self blame as all other victims who survive a full blown rageful narc are. One of the most difficult aspects of recovering from those non-humans is accepting that you may have made mistakes, but you are not responsible for what happened to you and you are not to blame. That's how a victim moves forward.

JoAnn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sus said...

The point is,anon, that Heather's social media is irrelevant to the case except in looking at time and place. No matter what Heather chose to do, she did not choose murder, hers or anyone else's. Your reasoning is akin to saying if a drunk driver hits and kills me, it's my fault because I didn't drive on a different road to avoid him/her. When you say the "entire case", judgement of Heather's life is not included just as it will not be in a court of law.

Truthseeker said...

somanyways, I believe she did call the payphone back within mins.
I too have wondered about hiw the hell these people woukd have energy to have sex all over the city and commit this horrendous crime. I dont understand the gap in time between the payphone call and the time it took for her to finally reach him on his cell. I believe there had to be another person who ws involved in this crime. Whatever he said to her initially on the payphone had to be incomplete info of some kind, so she tries to call back right away.
I'm thinking he might have "got the ball rolling" by saying he wants to leave wife for her. I believe the intent was to lure her out of the apartment. Once she was outside, it would have been easy for someone to attack her. I have always felt her car was "dumped" at the dock.

Shelley said...

OT

So the missing plane...

I was thinking this seemed like a terrorist possibly took over the plane.

But just read on another blog that Zaharie Ahmad Shah's (one of the pilots) wife took their kid and left him the day before this all happened.

Could have nothing to do with what happened but sure does seem like it could be so much more. If that is true....

Anonymous said...

Jazzie said...
Posted on U4A:
Anon (Retired 30 yrs as LE) says:
September 18, 2012 at 4:50 pm
I’m trying to find the proper/polite words to answer your question without offending anyone, if I don’t succeed I apologize in advance.
In my opinon & my opinon only, I don’t think LE will find Ayla; but I think they have enough evidence to prove that Ayla is no longer with us & to bring the proper charges against those responsible. Its not going to happen tomorrow, theres still alot to do; but it will happen. jmo

Anon says:
September 18, 2012 at 5:17 pm
CG says:
September 18, 2012 at 5:01 pm
LE Anon, I was looking at an old news article from one of the Boston stations I believe. Just clarifying it’s not NG. Source seemed to be unnamed investigators and there was a reference to Justin leaving police stAtion when confronted with evidence someone tried to clean up blood and blood spatter. What kind of force is required for blood spAtter to occur and is a weapon necessary or could there be blood spAtter from an injury inflicted by human hands?
———————
Hi CG – Out of respect for the families & fellow bloggers I don’t want to get too in depth with an answer; but it takes an object to cause blood splatter.
September 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Anonymous said...

When ones world is torn to pieces it can and has caused complete mental breakdowns. Praying for everyone on that flight and their families.

Nic said...

Anonymous/es

Timing discrepancy was cleared up via Peter's post. Initially 6:00AM was a "thereabouts" time. It has been established that the last ping from Heather's phone was 3:41

As per what was presented at the bond hearing:

She attempts to call at 3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41..

Her phone data ends at that point. 3:41 am.

She last attempts to call Sidney's (Tammy's) phone at 3:41 and the data ends at that point. As in communication was disabled. The quick sessions give a sense of desperation to me and then nothing.


somanyways, I agree I dont understand why she would not have run to him after the payphone call. Why wait hours and then drive into a dark, dangerous spot?

Projecting - the only reason I would go out in the middle of the night to "meet" someone would be if they were stranded/needed my help.

Maybe he played to Heather's compassion and said he was kicked out. Or that he was leaving and that meant he left with nothing and needed a place to go/stay but she wasn't sure. (calls friend) Thinks on it.

IShe couldn't get him via the pay phone number he called her from (because he never stuck around to wait and see if she would call again,) so she tries to reach him at the last known number she had for him. Tammy reported that Heather 'blocked' her number. If Heather blocked her number it was because she didn't want her call ignored. Heather called a second time (I suppose after being hung up on ) and had a nearly 5 min conversation with whomever at the other end. (Both?) Sidney said that all he told her was to stop calling him. That doesn't take 5 minutes. Maybe they wanted to make it sound like he was being booted out but they were setting her up to get her out of her apartment and to the boat launch.

Maybe the boat launch had significance for them. It's close enough that he could "walk" and meet her there. Maybe it was that she thought he was leaving with nothing and he would be on foot.

jmo

Shelley said...

Another OT....

This is a great post for you Peter.

Dottie Sandusky, Jerry Sandusky’s wife of 37 years, maintains that her husband is innocent of the charges of child sex abuse that resulted in his imprisonment.

“Do I believe him?’’ she told Matt Lauer. “I definitely believe him. Because if I didn't believe him, when I testified at trial, I could have not said what I said. I would have had to tell the truth.”

She believes the victims' financial gain was at play.

“I think it was, they were manipulated, and they saw money,’’ she said. “Once lawyers came into the case, they said there was money.”

Sandusky spoke with Lauer on TODAY in her first TV interview since her husband was convicted on 45 of 48 charges of sexual abuse of young boys in June 2012. She was joined by filmmaker John Ziegler in her State College, Penn. home.

Lauer asked Dottie if she believed her husband was guilty of inappropriate behavior with some of the young boys who have accused him.

“I don't believe that,’’ she said. “I believe he showered with kids. That’s the generation that Jerry grew up in....There were always people coming in and out no matter what time that was.”

Nic said...

Anonymous said:
What did he say during phone call # 1 that led her to immediately need to speak to him again? Did he hang up on her, end the call before she could ask him something? What was it she needed to ask?


1:35 am.. phone call from pay phone by Sidney to Heather.. call is 4:53 minutes

1:44 Heather calls (person unidentified) who is in Florida ... The call lasts 2:20 minutes.

2:29 Heather attempts to call the number Sidney called from

So there was a lapse in time between when he called and when she tried to call him back at the pay phone number. I don't think she needed to ask him anything. I think she had made a decision. I think she was calling him to say she would come and pick him up, but he had left. Hence the call to his last known number she had for him.

Shelley said...

And really? I don't recall an era that it was normal for a grown man to shower with young boys.

Its just as bad as people saying Michael Jackson having young boys sleep in his bed is normal.

No it was never the norm.

Does this moron believe her own BS. We'll, SA says no. No she does not. Her deception is clear as day


Link: http://m.today.com/news/jerry-sanduskys-wife-victims-were-manipulated-they-saw-money-2D79356845

JoAnn said...

Nic,
That would make sense. I agree, the only reason I would go out at that hour would be to help someone. When I was 20, I would have gone out at any hour, though, to meet someone I cared about, if asked to do so. I would have been reckless, and often was. I wonder, too, if Sidney didn't call Heather and express some kind of desperation, enough for here to call him several times & eventually leave her home.

Good luck explaining that nonexistent "timing discrepancy" to Anonymous/es! The agenda there doesn't allow for facts or common sense.

Nic said...

somanyways said:
all three of these people are staying up aaalllll night? why? why does all of this - whatever it is take until morning -if it took until morning? don't these people get sleepy?


Another person made the astute observation that "coincidentally" Sidney didn't call until shortly after she got in from her date and she was alone.

In other words, the Moorers could have been tipped off that she was home - or were following her and knew she was home alone.

I wonder if the whole event was premeditated and part of the "plan" was for her date to be the fall guy? (As in last known to have seen her.)

Except that "stupid" Sidney got videoed at the pay phone. (Is this true?)





Shelley said...

The fact that they had no contact for months then hours before she disappears the contact is started again tells me that the Moorers are involved with out a doubt.

I just can't tell yet if Sidney really was gonna leave his wife or not.

But I lean towards not. Since it sound like they had some wild sex after Heathers phone shuts off. This leans toward joint involvement.

And I've read comments from murderers that said that killing is a high, that they are aroused sexually (seems to have happened here). Only a truly evil person would feel this way.

If that is the case, Terry was a willing participant and not just forced to comply.

I can only imagine their home life. What their kids endured.

It's frightening to even imagine.

Nic said...

Hi JoAnn,

Reading these cases, I don't think I'd go out by myself anymore.


Shelley said...

Just thinking about the "kidnapping" charges..

Wouldn't it make more sense that police believe they took heather from
The boat dock against her will and then murdered her elsewhere (which is also what I think happened).

Otherwise if they killed her at the dock in those 3 minutes.... It would just be "murder" only.

I think Tammy maybe found something that night, decided she wanted Heather gone. Told Sydney if he loved her (Tammy) to prove it.

He then called Heather, said he was leaving his wife (lies) and later they planned to meet at the dock. I think he told her to get in his car to talk and go for a drive (that's why I think her doors were locked) and either he met Tammy somewhere or Tammy was in the car.

I think she was killed and her body hidden.

Then both were aroused by the murder and their sexual actives were a result of that.

I think Heather was killed by strangulation.

I think a quick gun shot would not give Tammy satisfaction. I think she wanted Heather to pay. A slow death.

Sus said...

I think that Heather met Sidney Moorer at PTL because she trusted him and thought she was saving him from his terrorizing wife. Look at him. He obviously plays the "poor me" card to the hilt. And that's the invincible thinking of a naive girl.

What a shock Sidney's betrayal must have been right before Heather's death. Tammy, I get. She is a full-blown narcissist with no conscience. I don't know how Sidney Moorer lives with himself.

Sus said...

Shelly,
My first thought was that Tammy Moorer would not kill Heather by gun shot. She would murder with her hands...by beating or strangulation. But if Heather was murdered at PTL, neither is viable, either by lack of blood evidence or time constraints.

Since LE has not said who it was in that truck when it came back at 3:46 a.m. and since they say the Moorers had public sex AFTER HEATHER DISAPPEARED is it possible one of them dropped the other off at PTL. Then returned home and went back to pick them up?

Nic said...

Shelley, re murderers saying killing was a high and being sexually aroused.

The Moorers were caught (on video?) having public sex a stone's throw from where Heather worked between the 17th and the 18th. Right before/after (?) Heather went missing.

Was it ever reported where Heather and her date went out that night? Was it to the Tilted Kilt? Maybe Sidney and Tammy were following Heather and were having sex in their truck while they were waiting for Heather's date to be over? Busy night, lots of people around and they were seen/reported?

Nic said...

Sus, there are two indecent exposure charges over the 17th and 18th. Addresses are given for both. One is at an industrial park and the other is a stone's throw from where Heather worked.

Sus said...

Nic,
I can't recall the addresses, but they saw Christmas lights and practiced driving a stick shift. As far as we know , they were not in the same location as the Moorers.

Sus said...

That's another thing that seems weird. Maybe I should find Donna Elder's exact words. Yes, the two charges are the 17 the and 18th, but notice what Elder says in the article above. That in initial interviews the Moorers said they had sexual relations AFTER Heather's disappearance.

JoAnn said...

Does anyone know the timing of the indecent exposure events, other than in the early hours of Dec. 18? I have felt that these events occurred after the murder, thinking that would be what a sexual sadist would do. But perhaps the planning would be stimulating as well.

I agree, Nic, I wouldn't want to go out alone at night any more. I don't live in fear, but I am very cautious, and I caution my daughter, constantly.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Hyatt, is there meaning behind someone using the phrase victim vs. innocent victim?

Nic said...

JoAnn, just found this...

The indecent exposure arrest warrants accuse the Moorers of exposing themselves in public between Dec. 17 and Dec. 18 at 1325 Celebrity Circle and in Conway at Atlantic Avenue and Century Circle, respectively.

Truslow said police charged the couple because they had “martial relations” in a vehicle prior to the case and it was irrelevant. But Elder said police learned the couple went to the places and had sex, then Tammy Moorer sent photos of their sexual positions to Elvis.

The acts were a culmination of revenge toward Elvis, Elder said. “Heather was in fact fearful of Tammy during this time period.”



Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/03/18/4104390/testimony-weaves-a-tale-of-how.html#storylink=cpy

Anonymous said...

Those kids were screwed Heather or no Heather.

Shelley said...

OT

Really Scotland Yard....ANOTHER Madeleine suspect in the news.

Atlchanel said...

How do you know that she wasn't ashamed? It sounds like she is the one who broke it off. You don't know what she was thinking. You SEEM so angry. What good is it doing to attack a dead girl for an affair? Shouldn't you be angry about her being murdered? Good Grief !

Sus said...

Thanks Nic! Now, when did Tammy send them to Heather? After the pay phone call?

JoAnn said...

Oh Nic,
That sheds a new light on this, doesn't it? Thank you for posting that.
Heather was fearful of Tammy. I wonder if Sidney convinced Heather that he was fearful of Tammy as well (and maybe he was). But if she was sending photos of their positions to Heather, he, at the very least, knew she was taking photos & must have had some idea what was going on. Twisted, disturbing & promises to become more so as more information comes out.
Such a painful and tragic betrayal for a girl that age to face.

Nic said...

An old Tammy post: (with ellipses)

https://www.facebook.com/588103037934172/photos/a.589004584510684.1073741827.588103037934172/589004131177396/?type=1&theater

Preliminary hearing set for March 28th.
https://www.facebook.com/588103037934172/photos/a.589004584510684.1073741827.588103037934172/597832590294550/?type=1&theater

Nic said...

Sus, I'm not sure. They make it sound like it was "during".

JoAnn, yes, indeed, this sheds new light.

What a nightmare for the Elvis family.

JoAnn said...

Nic,
You found ellipses! Lol

Shelley said...

So one of the guests on Jane Valdez stated she felt that these Madeleine McCann new suspects was a joke. Defended the Portgual police and brings up the cadavor dogs, skates refusal to talk and Jane immediately cut her off. She usually at least listens. The even Mark Klass (who usually calls it like it is) says she's way off base. Defending Gerry and Kate.

Clearly all media is scared to say a word. It was clear she didn't even want to allow the other opinion.

What power do these people have?

Randie said...

Here is part of a time line.

• 1:35am: SM called Heather from a pay phone on 10th Avenue North; the call lasted 4.83 minutes

• 1:44am: From her apartment, Heather called her roommate BW, who was in Florida, and spoke for 2.2 minutes; was crying and upset after the call from SM because she was trying to get her life back together after her affair with him and harassment by TM

• 1:53-2:09am: Ten posts were made to Heather's Tumblr

• 2:29am: Heather tried to call SM back at the pay phone number several times, but no one answered

• 3:16am: Heather tried to call SM's cell phone, no answer

• 3:17am: Heather called SM's cell phone and spoke with someone for 4.15 minutes; Heather's and SM's phones were each at their own homes at this point

• ~3:21am: Heather drove from her apartment to Peachtree Landing

**********************

Why would anyone made a distressing call to a friend then......look at pics to post on tumbler??? Was she wasting time cause she was told to call back to the pay phone at 2:30.....which she did..

Sus said...

........

Sella35 said...

I read through a lot of the posts...I did not make it through the entirety, I will say that a few of the posts blame HE.

It makes me upset. I am a woman, of a home invasion. I was told various things...the police said I dressed wrong. The owner of the business, said I dressed wrong and I could not report it....

The friends I had said, maybe you dressed wrong... I did not deserve to be raped for 4+ hours..based on my clothes...Heather Elvis did not deserve to die based on anything she wore or did.

And yes, I use Ellipses. ..I like to use them just like I love to use a tilde.... People who use them are probably my age and we did not grow up on computers. I will not sit and listen how HE deserved or should have known...really?

A girl should KNOW he is married and she could die if he sticks his little head in spots? I am shocked that so many people blame HE. I am wondering how many of these anon posts are from rock-star godfathers...

I know 20 is legal. 20 can also be naive.... z(sorry ellipses again).. I do not think she was suicidal or had a desire to be killed. I think he called her, spoke "sweet nothings" then killed her with the help of his wife.

somanyways said...

thanks Randie

JoAnn said...

Sella35,
I am so sorry for your ordeal and the uninformed, idiotic, cruel and damaging responses from those who should have been on your side. Those posts that seek to blame the victim, Heather, made me very angry also. Victim blaming and disparaging is support of the perpetrator, plain and simple. I feel that most of those anon posts are from the same person, because as hard as it is to believe there might be one Moorer supporter, I refuse to believe there are two.

somanyways said...

agreeing - truth seeker

somanyways said...

wait alligators?

do people sometimes get eaten by aligators there?

somanyways said...

I agree with the idea that luring would be based on sympathy -- i'm desperate -- I need help getting away. that's for sure the way to play it if it was a play.

somanyways said...

thanks for time line info

somanyways said...

Why did LE conclude it was murder. There's got to be a reason to say it was murder. All the harassment doesn't prove murder -- for all we know it let to her sitting on edge of doc in state of dismay and getting eaten by aligator.

Sella35 said...

@JoAnn thank you, I hope I got my point across..Heather did not deserve what she went through. I chose to post my life based on the hating HE posts.

No girl deserves to die/raped/tortured . She was only 20 when she was killed. I think she was killed by both the evil minds...Maybe TM was the evil-genius of the pair.

It made me sick and sad to read people blaming HE.. It is not always the woman's fault.

Sus said...

Amen and thank you.

Sella35 said...

@som... a murder charge without a body is almost impossible...unless they have plenty of evidence to show a murder has occurred.

They do not show or tell all the evidence at a bond hearing...

The prosecutor would never go for a murder case, unless he/she were sure they can win.

Sella35 said...

@ Joann- "quote"....because as hard as it is to believe there might be one Moorer supporter, I refuse to believe there are two.I love this! Your statement made me laugh out loud../LOL

JoAnn said...

Sella35,
There is so much darkness in the world, it's good to have a laugh. :)

somanyways said...

Is it confirmed that the moorers texted pics of their in-car sexcapades to heather over course of the night in question?

if so -- geez then it's really crazy that she would willingly drive to meet either one of them.

somanyways said...

Sell35 -- I's agree, I just wonder if they've found that evidence yet. sounds like they know it must be there among all junk in moorer house - but haven't got a positive ID on any DNA yet. that's just my guess from how they've been talking about it.

Anonymous said...

Somebody posted in think nic that maybe heather was told to wait and call back and thats why she was killing time on tumbler. that sounds totally believable to me. its first explanation that made sense. the idea that she would calll sidneys cell later is tough tho. shes got to believe tammy has it if sidney had to call from pay phone. also what really gets me is the shock of heart ache heather must have gotten to realize sidney was faking. seriously it could be enough to drive to suicideesp if they sent sex pics that same night. i thonk its poss they bullied her to suicide. which would still make them guilty but explain the lack of evidence of violence.

-somanyways posting as onon cause on my phone

Anonymous said...

Bullied her to suacide or to seek help. either way that is some epic bullying. if they actually texted her pics that night before she had her last cell pings its oddly their best alibi because its an awful way to lure somebody out. If they didnt text pics it does seem like it could be a victory lap after killing her.

Anonymous said...

If sidney did not intend to leave tammy but used pay phone to call heather. thats quite damning. only way for him to play it now was that he was really trying to leave. testimony in this trial is gonna take all of this to a whole other level.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, there is a huge difference between 6am and 3:41 am, estimated, guessed, fabricated or whatever. How do times, when phone calls are placed, change? Either there were calls until 6 am or there weren't.

john said...

OT.

Texas DPS Launches Crimes Against Children Unit

Lets hope they look into the Hailey Dunn Case?

http://www.newswest9.com/story/25017922/texas-dps-launches-crimes-against-children-unit

Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous said...
If sidney did not intend to leave tammy but used pay phone to call heather. thats quite damning. only way for him to play it now was that he was really trying to leave. testimony in this trial is gonna take all of this to a whole other level.
March 20, 2014 at 2:31 AM

Excellent point.

Timeisrelative said...

Anon @ '2:47,

3 o' clock, 6 o'clock...I don't think you should be splitting hairs like this. They're both in the morning, and if the state says the murder happened around 3:41, they may have realized there wasn't a call made by Heather at 6 after all.

JerseyJane said...

Anons and others mentioned how did Sidney know to call at that time? Did someone follow Heather on her date?

My thoughts on that are ,yes, that could have happened. I have other thoughts on this subject. #1 Sidney was calling Heather for months. Maybe this was the average time they spoke, after Heather leaving her bar/ restaurant job after her shift. She was not working that evening but her body was used to late night living( creature of habit). #2 Tammy has always projected to be a information gatherer on Heather and probably others in her life. My guess it was all part of her intense Heather spying and a quick look at phone records would determine to Tammy when most phone calls between Heather and Sydney took place. #3 Sydney probabaly acquired friends at Heather's job. For as we know, he worked some general maintenance on the building, he may have learned of Heather's date that way. FBI, LE may have interviewed and received info from an employee that they told Sydney about Heather's date..
Sydney is on video calling from payphone so, I sure LE was able to develop a probability from all communications between the two and come up with a answer. Although they don't need one. Did he know she was on a date? I don't think it's a priority to know but it may help with developing another part of a motive.

elf said...

Stupid brain goes faster than my fingers lol that's supposed to read Sidney is NOT innocent.

GeekRad said...

John, I had the same thought and am trying to drum up the courage to call them and ask them to investigate. Since I anticipate the run-around about contacting Rangers/FBI/Scurry County Sherrif who refuse to discuss or take (admit?) ownership I'm not too motivated to get a run-around.

Doty said...

Jo Ann you said you constantly caution your daughter. Why? You must believe that your daughter could behave in a way that puts her at risk, thus you caution against anything you perceive as taking chances, like perhaps going out alone late at night or not locking her door. Your statement shows that you believe a person could become a victim if they do/don't do certain things. Yet the suggestion by anons that Heather's actions in any way contributed to her demise are met by angry posts and labeled "victim blaming". What's the difference?

Doty said...

My daddy always said "Don't go waving a fistfull of hundred dollar bills on a busy street corner and not expect to get robbed". He didn't mean I would deserve to get robbed.

wowwhataquestion said...

^^^^^^^

Why? Do you want to see them Beans?

shmi said...

At the bond hearing, evidence was presented that a truck matching Tammy and Sidney's was seen on a home's surveilance leaving the night Heather disappeared, and the same truck returning 10 minutes later. Also, a businesses cameras caught the same thing.

I wonder if it was Tammy and Sidney's own cameras that caught them. One or both bragged that every inch of their property was being taped.

I still think that is very odd. Originally I thought they may have been dealing drugs out of their house. But the police would have added those charges too, if there was evidence of that.

Now I'm thinking maybe Tammy ran some sort of bondage thing from her house and they dealt with some pretty undesirable people, and that's why the cameras (and $$) was there.

I have a feeling that Sidney was really going to leave Tammy, and he escaped the house for a few minutes to call Heather from the pay phone. He may have told Heather he was in fear for his life, and that could be why she was so upset and agreed to meet him. Then, maybe she got there first, and he wasn't there, so she started calling his phone because she didn't know of any other way to reach him. But Tammy had his phone and didn't answer. The boatramp was only a few miles from the Moorer's house, and he could have been on foot. That could be why it was a long time from the phone call at the payphone to the boatramp, to give him a chance to walk there. Tammy was alerted by the calls coming to Sidney's phone and knew where they used to meet, and she ambushed them. Sidney might feel hopeless that he could never get away from her and went along with whatever she wanted, she may have even threatened the life of their kids! She may have had one of their guns with her. She wasn't going to let him get away! My view of Sidney is that he is a very weak man.

So, the cameras watching every inch of their house may just be the ones that helped the police. The rest of it is just speculation. But, it might be true that S was trying to leave T.

shmi said...

I don't think Sidney is innocent in any of it. He is a liar, a cheat, a theif (gamer). One more step toward murder, or the cover up of a murder, is not out of bounds for that type person. IMO

Anonymous said...

Thanks. Ill take that as a peace offering. - somanyways/anon when on my phone.

shmi said...

Has it been revealed where the pay phone was that was used? Was it between the Moorer house and the boatramp? Or the Moorer house and Heather's apartment?

Was S definitely on a camera, making the call at that time? I don't remember hearing that at the bond hearing.

shmi said...

Heather did not deserve to die for having an affair with a married man. But you never know what someone else is capable of. You know, a woman scorned...

shmi said...

OMG!!
Elf, I just started reading the comments. We are thinking along the same lines!

shmi said...

Hi Elf,
Reading further down the comments, we do differ in that I feel Sidney is guilty of participating or covering up the crime.

it'shardtoimitatetherealdeal said...

shmi="Beans"

Sus said...

I would like to address the 3:41/6:30 time difference. I know the police said the 6:30 a.m. time was on a preliminary report.

But Terry Elvis said he saw the 6:30 time on Heather's phone records. My bill has never been three hours off on a phone call. If it's "roundabout", that's a pretty big round up.

My question is...if a phone becomes inactive at 3:41 (say by being shut off, smashed, thrown in water) does the bill sti reflect calls in to it? Could Sidney or Tammy Moorer called Heather's after it was deactivated to throw off the investigation?

JoAnn said...

Doty,
I caution my daughter who lives away from home attending college to not walk alone after dark on campus or go grocery shopping alone late at night (just because the stores are open 24 hours doesn't make it safe for young girls to buy groceries alone at 2 am). Do you really find that odd? I think it's pretty normal parenting.
Perhaps you missed some of the posts that I responded to? Many were deleted. Victim blaming occurs when someone blames a crime victim by insinuating they brought the crime upon themselves by dressing the wrong way, dating a married man, or were somehow lacking in morals.

Anonymous said...

http://www.kptv.com/story/24820207/solicitor-explains-lack-of-information-in-heather-elvis-case

statement by prosecutor.

I'd be interested to see analyzed!

it sounds to me like they are still looking for the evidence

somanyways said...

sus -- interesting about where we first got the 6:30 timeline.

IMO possible heather wasn't the one using her phone even earlier, bt I think "calls" show up as calls recieved or made, not attempted incoming. as then there is no charge/ data to be charged. but depends what kind of phone plan record she has, id think the answer to this question could be gotten by checking with a phone company. and i think it's a good question.

somanyways said...

I think the timing of Sidneys pay phone call could be coincidence, they could have been stalking her - but it's also possible it's just when he called, I say this because people call eachother late at night who are involved like they were -- it's the "hour" of when they would talk. I think it could be a coincidence. also - because if they were stalking her -- there's zero point of all these other elaborate stuff -- just nab her in back of her apt when she's walking to her car if they are right on her tail.

somanyways said...

she could be chained/trapped in attic of some kidnapper all this time -- seeing it all on tv -- praying somebody will guess --- there was still even more to the story. I agree with what Heather's mom said on tv recently - " we still haven't found heather, we still don't know what happened"

like this missing plane, so many theories make sense, so may assumptions can be made to the point of - very very likely -- but so long as it's missing and no fragment of it can be found we never know with absolute certainty.

Lara said...

somanyways, you're right Heather could be kidnapped and hidden somewhere. It doesnt seem like they have any evidence to prove what specifically happened to her, and it sounds like prosecution had to "squeeze" their timeline to make their theory fit. Not a good sign that they know for sure.

Anonymous said...

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3011143

Tammy's Disney posts

Sus said...

Ima.grandma,
You probably shouldn't laugh with stitches, but I know you're smiling. :-)

Jen Ow said...

Hi Sus-

It's getting deep in here isn't it, lol

Beans said...

Sus,

Ok, I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed!!! Jaw is on the floor. "They" still can't figure out what their "tells" are, it would be funny if it wasn't so disturbing, creepy and weird. I picture the bus driver from South Park when I read their comments.


All the best for a speedy recovery, Ima.Grandma!

Jen Ow said...

BEANS!, One of the funniest characters ever...with the bird in her hair, lol

"SIT DOWN AND SHUUUT UP". -Ms. Crabtree

Beans said...

JenOw,

Yes! Hahahaha. Couldn't think of the name, thanks! Listen, for all we know "they" could be Sally Field method acting the upcoming Sybil 2: The Internet Years. I smell another Emmy!

JoAnn said...

Anon @ 1:16
The Disney posts we're interesting reading. I stopped reading during all the photos of "rockstars" & celebs.
When TM talks about booking the cruise, she says they were looking at Florida resident cruise rates. ??? Did they use SM's family's address for a special rate? She doesn't mind if people know that, since she talks about where they live in SC. When they arrive at the port, she is delighted that she has a Handicapped license plate & is directed to a parking spot right by the door. Again, it's obvious from photos that she, her husband, and children aren't in need of a special parking permit. Dishonest & proud of it! "Getting over" on the system.
None of this has anything to do with whether she's a murderer, just a little insight into character.

Anonymous said...

Not all disabilities that require a parking sticker are visibly apparent. I hope you never have to deal with a person with a disability!

Beans said...

Anonymous 2:34 PM,

I can't tell if you're intentionally obtuse or just slow witted....allow me reiterate a point made to you many, many, many times now.

It's not your message that's the problem, it's the delivery.

No one takes issue with differing opinions, what people take issue with is creating multiple personas to discuss your opinion with yourself and other ones to argue with. It's bizarre, it's not normal, it's called out because of that. The persecution complex is strong with you, I doubt you'll let go of it willingly, but one more time because it doesn't seem to ever sink in: It's not your message that's the problem, it's the delivery.

It's not your message that's the problem, it's the delivery.


It's not your message that's the problem, it's the delivery.

It's not your message that's the problem, it's the delivery.

JoAnn said...

Anon,
I don't think being a sociopath qualifies you for special parking.

Anonymous said...

no I think it's time to fess up -- they've clearly got our number - sorry other personalities -- I know you are prob gonna take me down now the next night i'm not looking where i'm going while i'm taking a late night stroll in our lower cerebral quartex, but I just can't live the lie any more. clearly their detective skills are without flaw. they got us and this case tied up in a bow. and i'm so tired of sharing synapses. it's like sometime i just wanna be alone in my own skull…. sigh. dreams. (and dreams of not having to share actual night time dreams with other personalities too)

Beans said...

JoAnn,

I remember reading that it was actually her father's handicapped plate/placard and she frequently used it for "easy parking". I can't remember if it was a vehicle with a handicapped plate that was registered in her father's name or a placard that hung from the rearview mirror that was in her father's name. Either way, it wasn't hers.

Anonymous said...

Maybe she is a sociopath with other disabilities. Your assuming she didn't need the permit because of her pictures, that's not fair to the people who do have non apparent disabilities.

JoAnn said...

Hi Beans,
That makes sense.
No shame.

somanyways said...

delivery? huh. well I guess the mystery will be unsolved. you can keep thinking what you like. i've stated clearly it's not the case. but if we sound exactly the same in delivery to you -- guess you are justified in thinking we are same person. i can tell difference - but I've got advantage of literally knowing when it's my own post or when it's not. far as i'm concerned you can believe we are all one. I got no further need for you to think differently.

Beans said...

I don't know why you bother doing it either. There's no detective skills needed, your IP address logs when you comment.

somanyways said...

I think it's actually a conundrum, because short of posting our real identities -- it's true there's no way to prove one way or another. and once you got a theory -- why would you change it without proof to the contrary.

course if I did want to create more voices to keep myself company I'd probably be a bit more creative -- I'd go man - different age than me -- maybe even british, etc. i'd try to make in convincing.

also I'd never want to give somebody else credit for my own ideas i'm too selfish. ;)

but I say let em think it. whatevs.

somanyways said...

guaranteed we don't all have same IP addresses. if somebody claims we do it's a lie.

Jen Ow said...

Anon 2:54

If you spend 40 days out of the year WALKING all over Disney World, and Disney cruise ships...you don't need to selfishly take up one of the limited spots available for handicapped use to avoid walking across a parking lot.

Anonymous said...

I guess you haven't been to Disney much, they are one of the most accommodating parks for people with special needs/disabilities. They go above and beyond to make each persons visit "magical"

somanyways said...

sounds to me we are all even in different states, and i thikn i'm only one on west coast cause you all seem to be off line when i'm posting before bed. so think we all have time difference

Anonymous said...

But again the point was missed. Shouldn't be questioning ones disability based of pictures, that's all ;)

Anonymous said...

Somanyways, Right, there's no winning the argument, let em think it. It's very weird to be accused of something you didnt do, but c'est la vie (oh shoot my French lady personality is coming out!)

somanyways said...

I just imagine us all walking into a room to meet and their anger in seeing all of us are different human beings. :) but -- not worth the trip.

interesting to see how people can run with a theory and never let go.

Anonymous said...

Somanyways, that information (different time zones) might matter but it doesnt because this individual pretending to be multiples supposedly does not sleep, something impossible for most humans, but not the human who is being accused of having multiples.

somanyways said...

ha - and see I can't even speak french at all!

JoAnn said...

Hi Jen Ow,
Yes, and it speaks to character ( not the Mickey & Goofy kind, lol). There are people who feel they are entitled to & deserve things that are not rightfully theirs. A special parking place or a discount they don't really qualify for. Bending the truth to suit a need. They move through the world differently, and they practice deception until it becomes the norm. But, if someone tries to take something that is theirs, woe unto them.

somanyways said...

prob not even single person,. prob just a computer generated online posting robot invented and set in motion by moorers

Sus said...

Maggie and all other personalities,
I'm going to try my best to explain your tell tale sign again. I hope you take this as I'm meaning it...with compassion and a want to help.

Your comments are about YOU being right or wrong. They are about YOUR OWN truth. You seek validation from others here to bolster YOUR points. You create alts to agree with YOU. When others comment, you twist and define their intent to fit YOUR agenda.

Notice you make the analysis about YOU...anout your truth and whether you are right or wrong. Statement Analysis is about looking at the subject's truth.

It's not about being right or wrong. It's about what is truth for the subject at hand. What is truth for you may not be truth for someone else. You have to be willing to open your mind and see others' truth to work cooperatively.

As I said to you before, I do understand why you so strongly defend your own truth rather than opening up and seeing others'. With an abusive parent you've had to defend yourself. But that's over. This blog can be a place to practice safely. As can journal writing as Peter suggested.

I hope you take this as I'm trying to give it.

somanyways said...

I don't even think they really believe it i think they are just trying to mess with us. something to do.

ah- back to work :)

love to all my personalities and all the people who want to cure me of them.

Nic said...

Stella. My ellipses reference was regarding Tammy's use (or not) of them. It wasn't in reference to you.

Sorry to hear you were a rape victim/victim of a home invasion. I agree there the only one responsible was the doer. Your assailant.

somanyways said...

thanks for trying to explain/ I don't think a single person on her has come close to demonstrating such detached open minded cool headed discipline, but like i said -- you are right. we are all one person. and i hope you validate that for me. more than you validate anybody elses ideas. please and thank you,

Anonymous said...

Sus, you're right, I'm like 100 diffrrent people. Somanyways is one of my diurnal companions (part of me though). I never looked at it that way that maybe journaling would help unify the personalities. I bet you are right, my abusive parent took my truth from me, and making other personalities to talk with helps me affirm my truth. How much do I owe you for this session Sus? I'm just kiddin! Very heartfelt and profound advice. Thanks Sus.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen those parking lots at Disney? There is a difference between walking a long distance and not having a place to rest when needed then walking a long distance and being able to stop in the shade on a bench, or in a building. Even the parking lots have transportation to the gates, but that can be a long walk with no place to rest. I guess since she was a sociopath though she should have just plopped her sagging big butt on the hot asphalt and rested when needed? I guess any person that is not in a wheel chair should also?

somanyways said...

ha i don't even know what diurnal means! I gotta sig off rt now, but oter personalities i'll be where you can find me oin the other side. xox

Kellie said...

The "Sidney and Tammy Moorer are Innocent" FB page has disappeared

https://www.facebook.com/SidneyandTammyMoorerInnocent

Sus said...

I can't recall where I read that Tammy Moorer's foot was run over by a lawn mower. That is why she gets a handicapped sticker.

somanyways said...

one last thought -- a lot of young women write like that ( I dunno maggie age) but it's kind a cultural generational thing -- overall we do like validation. and we do reflect most of our thoughts on ourselves. I'd say its more typical than not for young american females to talk that way. you can see it all over popular culture -- it's more cultural than invidudual. you may just be noticing a cultural sdimiarity. also sounds like we both had lots of schooling,. private liberal arts schools often teach similar ways of framing thoughts, it's very possible what you are picking up on is that we have similar cultural backgrounds. and its very possiblre that we do.

Anonymous said...

Thanks somanyways, I could feel your personality was "leaving" me. I think I feel myself going into a fugue state now, I can feel it happening, I get a restless feeling and my ears start to twitch. I hope I dont end up wandering too far from home!

Nic said...

I too thought it weird that LE retracted the 6:00AM activity on Heather's phone (via what Heather's dad shared with them when he filed the report). My theory was that whomever secreted her was using her phone to call 'home' and let them know they were done. (2.5 hours after she was taken from the PTL.) But then the next day Peter posted the retraction, so it's off the table.

JoAnn said...

Sus,
A foot injury would explain the handicapped parking permit. I think it stood out to me because she described exactly where she parked & it seemed like a big deal. Then as I read further on her travelogue, I realized she went into great detail about everything & I guess she was doing this so others could virtually take the cruise with her. Imagine posting 600 photos with text from a 4 day trip! Just because it's not my cup of tea, though, doesn't mean others didn't enjoy it. Whatever floats your boat (stupid pun intended).
She mentions that Sidney attended culinary arts school at Johnson & Wales. That would explain "You're a great chef" on her list of reasons why...

somanyways said...

you are teaching me so many new words :) i just googled gugue :)

somanyways said...

fugue

Anonymous said...

She was doing a "trip report" , which is describing your trip from start to finish, including the resort to the food .

Anonymous said...

Did ya'll get to the part on her trip report where they bumped into Minnie Mouse on their cruise? She literally said, "There's nothing like being in the beautiful Atlantic ocean with an adorable mouse by your side."

I don't care how much you love Disney -- that's WEIRD. It's also the only photo she's actually in.

Jen Ow said...

Anon 3:38, and all other times

God Bless it all, lol...

Once again, you have completely missed the point, AND the accurate details of what occured with the handicapped placard. They weren't in the parking lot of Disney world, they were at port boarding a cruise ship. Maybe it would help if YOU actually read what was written by TM, before commenting. I'm sorry to be harsh, but your continued attempts to distract and highjack the blog have worn my patience thin.

ONE of the reasons your posts are easily identified is the volume of repetitive posts, as well as your consistant mis-statement of facts.

It goes like this:

-you read and misinterpret someone else's comment.

-you comment on how you "didn't realize that", and how it makes you wonder about some baseless theory.

-someone tries to correct your misinterpretation of what you originally read/stated.

-you continue to repeatedly state your misinterpretation as if it's fact, and post multiple fantasy possibilities that you think add credence to your theory.

-press repeat

Now that you have found your 'DOD', (distraction of the day) I'm sure you can parlay Tammy's use of a handcapped placard into a reason why she isn't guilty. Have fun with that.

Sheesh, smh

somanyways said...

I don't even know what a play card is , i wasn't part of that conversation.

somanyways said...

I don't care to read through it it looks boring. but whorever you are debating with isn;t me,

JoAnn said...

somanyways,
Disingenuous comments are becoming tiresome. Either you went to this "private liberal arts school" and had "lots of schooling" (your own words) or you truly don't know the meaning of words like fugue, diurnal & placard.
Because if you did get lots o' schooling @ a private liberal arts school, you should demand a refund.

somanyways said...

ha I haven't even paid for em all yet!!! deeebbbtttt. it was mostly in visual arts so not too many words involved :)

but seriously -- whoever you are debating w/ isn;t me. I don'r care where people park. just helping you out.

Jen Ow said...

Thank you for another perfect example...

I said 'handicapped placard'. (A handicapped placard is what a handicapped person carries and displays.)

You changed that to 'play card', in your comment about how you don't know what that is.

Also, in case you didn't notice, you answered as 'somanyways', when the comments I responded to were all written by 'anon'. ;-)

somanyways said...

ya letting you know i'm not that anon -- you seemed to think we were all one person. if you know it's not me than cool. i'm a misspelle er, its another thing they didn't teach me in ex[pensive-unpaidfor college. but really i can't blame them, my spelling skills are nobodies fault but my ow.n placard. something I don't give a f about.

hugs and kisses

Jen Ow said...

Lol, Joann

Cha-ching!

Anonymous said...

Lmao. I have repeatedly said tammy was guilty, I don't think I am the one with the misinterpretation problem.....just saying. SMH.

JoAnn said...

Somewhere...ima.grandma is trying so hard not to laugh, but inside, she's rolling on the floor laughing.

Hope you will be back soon, ima.grandma :)

Jen Ow said...

K

Jen Ow said...

K, lol

Jen Ow said...

K, lol

Anonymous said...

But somanyways does recognize foolishness when she sees it, a skill far more valuable than knowing what kind of "card" Tammy has on her Mickeymobile.

Anonymous said...

Somanyways, I wouldnt bother explaining yourself to people who got their psych training from watching Dr Phil and Oprah.

somanyways said...

in the words of Heather Elvis:

.

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