Monday, March 24, 2014

Tammy Moorer's Father Dies

It may be that the fallout from the murder has caused stress beyond the norm.  

Here is the article:  
The father of a Myrtle Beach area woman, who is charged in connection with the disappearance of 20-year-old Heather Elvis, died Monday morning, but because of a gag order issued in the case Horry County police Lt. Robert Kegler said he could not confirm officers had been called to the house for the natural death.
Horry County Coroner Robert Edge said Monday that William Caison, 69, died from natural causes.
Caison was Tammy Moorer’s father.
It is unclear if Tammy Moorer will be permitted to leave the detention center to attend any funeral services for her father.
“We have procedures in place to accommodate the inmates needs, but for security reasons I can’t go into any details,” said Tom Fox, director for J. Reuben Long Detention Center.
Horry County officials are handling the security of Tammy Moorer, even though she is being held in Georgetown County. Sidney Moorer is being held at the detention center in Horry County.
On Friday, Tammy Moorer, 42, and her 38-year-old husband, Sidney Moorer were each indicted on murder, kidnapping, obstruction of justice and two counts of indecent exposure charges by an Horry County grand jury, which met the day before, according to court records.
The indictments filed against the couple Thursday were true bill indictments, which means that the case will not have a preliminary hearing at which more evidence could be presented publicly. A preliminary hearing was scheduled for later this week.
Also on Friday, Circuit Court Judge Steven John approved a gag order which prohibits any prosecutors, defense attorneys or their staffs and members of law enforcement, who have investigated the case, to publically speak about it.
On Monday, when asked about Horry County police officers being at the home of Tammy Moorer’s father, Kegler said he could not comment because of the gag order.
The four page gag order keeps any person officially involved with the case from publically commenting or releasing any documents unless John has approved the release beforehand, according to the order.
“Any covered person may petition the court, with notice to all counsel of record, for permission to make a public comment or to publicly release information when that comment or release is not specifically permitted by this order. However, no such comment or rlease shall be made until the court has approved it in an order, and the content of any proposed comment or release may not be revealed in the petition.”
Solicitor Jimmy Richardson, who could not be reached Monday for comment, said before the order was issued that he requested it in an effort to keep the trial in Horry County and prevent defense attorneys from requesting a change of venue because of the publicity. Richardson also last week denied a request from The Sun News to release information related to the execution of search warrants at the Moorer’s home.
Jay Bender, an attorney for the S.C. Press Association, said Monday that it was unusual for prosecutors to request a gag order in a criminal case because typically it is made by defense attorneys prior to trial.
“The defendants did not consent to it and from the judge’s perspective his goal is to make sure there is a fair trial,” Bender said and noted extensive questioning of potential jurors would address the pretrial publicity in the case. “I think this order goes beyond the restriction on participations in the trial by seeking to prevent citizen access to public records in the hands of public bodies other than law enforcement.”
“It’s always a problem when you have no one in the courtroom arguing for the right of the people to have access to both records and people who are involved in a case,” Bender said. “The Supreme Court of South Carolina has noted that it’s important for court proceeding and records to be open because the openness is what gives the public confidence the rules are being followed.”
Heather Elvis was last seen the night of Dec. 17 and last heard from early Dec. 18, according to authorities. She was reported missing Dec. 19 after Horry County police found her car, which was registered to her father, parked at the Peachtree boat landing. Elvis’ keys, cellphone and purse were not found in the locked car and she remains missing.
Police charged the Moorers with murder and kidnapping Feb. 24 in connection with Elvis’ death.
Contact TONYA ROOT at 444-1723 or follow her at Twitter.com/tonyaroot.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/03/24/3345764/father-of-myrtle-beach-woman-charged.html?sp=/99/132/#storylink=cpy

67 comments:

QChick said...

OT-Relisha Rudd

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/03/24/khalil-tatum-relisha-rudd-amber-alert-missing-wife-murdered?hpt=ju_bn4

pictures of Relisha and Khalil Tatum

Critical thinker said...

C'mon ppl. It's just rude to post an OT as the first comment on a new article!

Thanks for the update Peter.
I am really intrigued that the roadside remains in Florida will not be identified publically, officials citing gag order.

Justice for Heather

Katprint said...

IMO, it is highly likely that Tammy Moorer, but not Sidney Moorer, will be permitted to attend William Caison's funeral. The evidence presented at the bond hearing did not include any escape attempts or violence towards the jail guards. Although the judge denied the request to set bail due to the seriousness of the charges, the nature of this case and the potential penalties the defendants face, the purpose of the pretrial detention is merely to ensure Tammy Moorer's presence at trial rather than to than to punish her for a crime she has not been convicted of. Even convicted inmates are sometimes permitted to attend the funerals of their parents, children, siblings or spouses so long as they have been behaving well in custody and are not considered to present a significant escape risk. Of course they are escorted by jail/prison guards at all times. Also they may have to pay for their escorts' salaries, charges for secure transportation, and all other related and incidental expenses.

If I were law enforcement, I would have at least two sets of listening devices recording her at every moment. Parabolic mics, stun belt wired to transmit sound, dictaphone tape recorders in the pockets of her escort, etc. She might say something useful to her deceased father who reportedly threatened to kill searchers looking for evidence of what happened to Heather, who came too near his property.

Anonymous said...

I don't feel any satisfaction in the suffering TM must be suffering. If justice prevails she has much more suffering ahead. I won't go so far as blaming her, though it is quite possible but it is her own doing that she is not home grieving
with her family. If she is unable to pay her last respects it is her
own threats of violence that are
responsible. Karma has come knocking. I wonder if she still feels it was worth it? Will this be the straw that breaks the camels back for Sydney? Will he throw her under the bus the way I suspect he will? So much human suffering in the name of revenge.

lvmomma702

MemphisPat said...

Terrible crimes have terrible consequences. I don't see why Tammy should be allowed to go to the funeral at great expense to the taxpayers, not to mention the danger should she escape. Critical Thinker, I had not heard that about the identity of the Florida body. When I heard it was a small female, it just made sense that it might be Heather. I wonder if hearing that news was too much for Mr. C's ticker.

Anonymous said...

Wow... kinda distracted lol. Sorry fellow readers for my lack of editing. After 3pm my brain scrambled by kids

polywog said...

Those poor kids. Loose their parents than the grandfather who they were close to in proximity. I bet the Moorer family will blame this on Heather and Terry too.

Red Ryder said...

I agree, Katprint. TM is innocent before the law until found guilty. I would be surprised if she was not allowed to attend her dad's funeral. I think LE would take advantage of any situation they are legally entitled to but I would also be surprised if she breathed a word about Heather or the case (unless someone can goad her into it).

It is interesting that nothing has been said about the i.d. of the Volusia County body. There is precedent for keeping an identity of found remains from the public under a gag order. I guess like most things in this case, we just have to wait, see, and analyze the lawyers statements (or family if they give any).
Anon, I also feel that WC's death may have been hastened by the stress of the situation their family is under with TM and SM charged, grandkids etc. He doesn't come across as a likable guy and you know TM didn't spring from a void, but I feel bad for the kids. So much change and loss all at once.
I was impressed to see SM's natural family (brother, mother, father who have according to TM been cut off for many years) show up for the bond hearing. They didn't appear as though they were there to gloat, rather they looked supportive. Anyone who can take being cut off like dead wood for years and come be there for you in your darkest hour is someone worth keeping in your life! Perhaps this is the first time they have seen their grandkids in a long time? It would be great if the kids could reconnect and the Caisons have some help with the grandkids. after all, they are all in the same boat now.

polywog said...

And I do not think she should be allowed @ the funeral. She is there for a reason, she committed her crime and they had enough evidence to hold her without bond. And she wanted to be part of her family affairs that should have been thought of before murdering and destroying another family.

polywog said...

*if not and

Nic said...

I think TM should be shown the same mercy as she has shown the Elvis family. Why should she be granted peace of mind/closure/given the opportunity to put her dad to rest when she still stands between Heather and her family? What of their grief? What of their loss? What of their closure?

The court has stated that it is too dangerous for her or TM to be out on bail (to be "out"). IMO, if/when she is cleared of her charges, she can pay her respects then.

Critical Thinker said...

I was mistaken:
The gag order was in relation to another missing persons case someone was citing on the previous thread, NOT the roadside remains found the other day near where the Moorers traveled.

Sorry!
(Apparently, my CT skills are useless w/o first applying basic reading comprehension skills)

As for TM getting to attend the funeral at tax payer expense and tying up LE resources?
I am torn.
In general, I'm not sure its fair to deny a pretrial detainee permission to attend a funeral. I believe TM is guilty and EVIL, and a flight risk.

BUT, she hasn't been convicted yet, and we do profess a philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty".

I don't think taxpayers should foot the bill and resources to allow a CONVICTED criminal, serving time, permission to attend a funeral. Maybe that's coldhearted, but I don't care.

There are FREE people who have loved ones die and can't foot the bill to travel to their funerals! Taxpayers don't foot the bill to send them there and back at exorbitant cost. Why should an inmate be entitled to that consideration when law abiding ppl aren't??

elf said...

#1 there is an amber alert for Relisha.
#2 once identity of the remains are known, it will be released, just no comments other than who it is. The investigators will notify family ahead of media.

Anonymous said...

Totally agree. She hasn't been convicted, they'll let her attend. They may even let Sidney attend although that is a crazy idea- the two of them there together. But I agree this would be an opp not to be missed if they could record her every word.

JerseyJane said...

In my area, I know of prisoners going to the county morgue to see a deceased one. It doesn't get announced to public. It happens quickly and local as well as state police are involved.

ecossie possie said...

If I where In a position of Authourity .

Investigateing this case the Fathers death an Funeral would be a gift.

Let them both attend the funeral share a vecicle on the way .

Have every ting wired an pin hole cameras .

Let the idiots think there alone in the back of a cruiser or some jail van.

Same scenario at the service an grave side bugg the heck out them 2 .

Neither one will be smart enough TO keep stuhm.

Anonymous said...

Karma has her eyes on Tammy & God has her back ! (Karma's back not Tammy's back...no one has Tammy's back....now that her Dad is gone, rest his soul.)

Anonymous said...

Oh they have identified the remains as a small female ? Hmmm Holly Bobo comes to mind....

Nic said...

Has anyone else seen/read this? "A Look At tammy Moorer's State of Mind".

There is a lot of reference to material presented at the bond hearing that I hadn't read about yet.

[snip]According to the State of South Carolina, at some point Tammy became aware of Sidney’s relationship with Heather Elvis. And according to solicitor Donna Elder, she did not handle it well. It’s been reported that at one point she sat on her bed with a gun in her hand and threatened to kill Sidney and herself. We also know that Tammy began sending Heather harassing text messages and even spoke to her boss at The Tilted Kilt on at least one occasion, calling Heather names and saying she should be fired.
[end snip]

http://moorermurdertrial.com/a-look-at-tammy-moorers-state-of-mind/

Jen Ow said...

I doubt that Tammy or Sidney will be allowed to attend her father's funeral, based on the judge's previous ruling. He cited not only the seriousness of their crimes and the punishments that they face... but the likelihood that their release would pose a risk to THEIR wellbeing and others in the community.

If TM or SM were allowed to attend, the community will respond with outrage, leading to a security concern. How much of LE's resources would be required to maintain order, and attempt to keep the Moorers safe? I doubt that they will assume the risk, responsibility and cost of letting them attend.

My personal opinion is also that she/they shouldn't be allowed to attend. Were Terry Elvis, Debra, Morgan or the rest her family allowed to say their final goodbyes, and pay their respects to Heather? Certainly not! If the Moore's refuse to allow Heather a burial attended by her loved ones, then how dare they expect or demand that they be allowed the privilege!?!

elf said...

Unless the suspects are told they are being recorded its not admissible in u.s. court. The only important information Tammy and Sid have now is where heather is, they wouldn't need to discuss that because they both already know.

Veruca said...

Her father didn't commit any crime. Again another heartless comment.

Anonymous said...

I didn't think so either but I do remember when cops took Misty and Tommy to the boat ramp from jail to show them what was thouggt to be Haleigh Cummings bones. They put them in the back of the cop car together. Something abiut how they didn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Anonymous said...

I agree.evil sex addict should rot in its cell.

Anonymous said...

So does Mr. Caison become there alibi or is he the driver of the truck now? Sorry, but many accused killers use dead people as either the patsy or the alibi.

Carnival Barker said...

@ Elf,
I think you're mixing up some of the laws. Recording between two parties may not be admissible (in some states) unless both parties know they are being recorded, but the federal government uses wiretaps all the time without the subject being aware of it. There are restrictions on it, such as not listening 24/7 and being required to turn off the listening device if the party is not talking about anything having to do with the case, but the recordings are certainly admissible in court.

Carnival Barker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Most likely stress over the events ended his life. They have ruined so many lives.

They must tell where Heather is hidden. This case is handled so professionally they will not escape justice.

Red Ryder said...

http://www.examiner.com/article/heather-elvis-accused-murderer-s-father-dies-escape-at-funeral-possible

Article discussing the gag order and possible TM attending funeral. Boy, they are playing up the whole media thing by suggesting an escape attempt. Seriously:/

Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous said...
So does Mr. Caison become there alibi or is he the driver of the truck now? Sorry, but many accused killers use dead people as either the patsy or the alibi.
March 25, 2014 at 8:47 AM


No reason to apologize. It is a good point

Choose a nickname to participate in discussion.

The deceased are often blamed.

You will, one way or another, hear his name in this saga.

Peter

somanyways said...

Here is a question - and I ams asking sincerely - Why/who - is harrassing Terry Elvis ? I don't understand the motivation or purpose. Heather is already gone what would be the point of painting an x on his door or telling him his younger daughter is next. It can't be the moorers they are in jail. and if it's just moorer supporters -- why? what do they still hope to attain? that really doesn't make any sense to me.

somanyways said...

here are my questions rt now:

Did the moorers text sex pics the night Heather disappeared? before 3:40 a.m. or after?

that parts been so unclear and you'd think it'd make a huge difference. for example can't imagine Heather driving to landing expecting good things if she's just gotten those texts. and if they sent them later on - after 3:40 how weird if they had just killed her --

who is harrassing Terry and why? the only reasonable explnation is that it is unrelated to the crime. and moorers have nothing to do with the harassment, it's just somebody capitilizing on the drama - but even then -- why?

hmmm. those are my two main questions rt now. if anybody actually has answers - love to hear em.

Theresa said...

elf said...
Unless the suspects are told they are being recorded its not admissible in u.s. court. The only important information Tammy and Sid have now is where heather is, they wouldn't need to discuss that because they both already know.
____

They could put them in the van with an officer dressed as an inmate, but trick them into thinking he is deaf by having him use some sign language. They'll shrug him off and then TM will start bitching at SM, and the "deaf inmate" can report it all. Hahaha. Only in the movie I'll make some day.

That said, I do not think SM or TM should be allowed to go to the funeral. It is highly likely their children will be at the funeral and they shouldn't have to be subjected to feeling uncomfortable around their parents at such an event.

Jen Ow said...

Somanyways-

My home internet is down and I can't post as easily on phone, so please excuse typos in advance. It appears that the picture TM sent of her self and SM engaging in oral sex was sent before Heather's murder, since people from Heather's work reported seeing it, as well as Heather's black eye attributed to TM.

Here is a link to an article by CH, which contains a comment about the photo.

http://www.chelseahoffman.com/2014/01/exclusive-interview-chelsea-talks-to.html?m=1

Jodi- (snipped)

2 months agoShared publicly+565 

This is conplete and total bullshit. Tammy harrassed her at work after she found out who she was. She came to work with a black eye. We ALL saw it. Including a picture Tammy sent her of Sidney eating her out. Sounds like a rational adult who didn't care about the affair, right? To send another woman a picture of her vagina.

Jen Ow said...

Full disclosure: There was more to the above quote by Jodi, but it was basically just name calling, so I snipped it.

wish star said...

I don't feel that Tammy should be able to go the funeral. Why should she be given that privilege? and yes it is a privilege and not a right in her case. "To pay her respect to her dead father" they said. Well not for nothing she has no respect for the dead body of Heather who is laying out in the elements somewhere without a proper burial.

Anonymous said...

Thanks jen ow. so are they not saying moorers sent sex pics night heather went missing also? Confused because pics seems to always be described as plural. what was location tammy gave heather black eye? If she came to work with it it would seem it was somewhere other than work that she got it. And where was sidney during attack? why didnt heather enlist some kind of help after being physically attacked? the black eye part of story os jard to beloeve. i cant understand getting physically attacked by sttangrr and doing nothi.g about it.

Angelina said...

Anon 12:34,
I thought it was strange how Heather had written on her twitter 'Fell down the stairs again at work like a little b#%ch.' I believe this was the exact quote. Not saying I dont believe Tammy gave her a black eye, just wanted to add that I would also wonder why she would be falling down the stairs at work more than once and also why she would call herself a little b$&tch for falling down stairs?!? It makes me wonder whether someone else was also being violent towards her??

somanyways said...

Angelina -- i was just thinking same thing!!

I was thinking -- I don't believe this black eye story.
a) it would mean Tammy knew how to get to Heather on her own and be physically violent with her without witnesses. if this were the case - murder would have been way easier than using all these "luring" back and forth calls and texts.

b) if heather had been walking around with a black eye for a while -- why did.t her father or sister or mother notice?? she had only moved out less than a month ago and still stopped home regularly. and if not her family -- her roomate would have noticed, -- I feel somebody would have pressure her to make a police report -- and even if Heather was too embarrased to make a report -- SOMEBODY would be out there saying -- I told her to make a report from the first attack why didn't she listen to me.

b) a black eye is more like what a man gives a woman -- momen tend to fight more scrappy -- resulting in a scattering of small damage,. ot they just use a weapon. Tammy doesn't strike me as a fist fighter.

-------- and then I got to thinking --- is this friend just lying about the black eye?? because we do have corroboratin on the other parts of her story -- but not the black eye --- so did she throw it in just cause?? Maye she's just trying to help build a st5ronger case against who she's sure in responsible. …. but then I thought -- OR Heather really did have a black eye -- and this friend just assumed it was Tammy -- but it was indeed somebody else.

strong possibility / if I were a cop or reporter over there -- I'd get to bottom of that question! did anybody else see her with a black eye - does anybody else know story behind it.

somanyways said...

ya -- calling herself little bi*** does sound like she's in an abusive relationship -- that's she's still in at the point she's saying it.

surely not guaranteed that's the case -- but I'd make the same guess. could be any kind of abusive relationsh tho -- not necessarily romantic.

somanyways said...

was there any particuar reason Heather had just moved out of her home? beginning of december is not most common move out of home time. wonder if she had finally saved up enouh money or if there was some other event --

Angelina said...

somanyways
I do remember Heather wrote in her twitter that Sidney was going to be somewhere, don't remember where, so she, Heather wrote she was going to make an appearance there. Now, I don't know if Tammy was with Sidney at that event or if she even knew who Heather was at that point or if Sidney and Heather had even hooked up at that point but maybe she could have given her a black eye there but you would definitely think especially when she went missing that a family member would have brought up that Tammy had given her black eye if she did.
Terry Elvis did say that some guy at work was being scary or abusive (he didnt say physical) but Terry had said the guy had told Heather "you can't hide I will find you".
The falling down stairs at work more than once really does seem unusual considering hadn't she only worked there a few months? Was someone (the guy Terry mentioned maybe?) giving herva hard time pushing her ir tripping her or in some way causing her to fall down stairs?
I don't know why she had moved out of her parents' house at that particular time?

somanyways said...

typically people say they fell down stairs when they want to explain away bruises from a domestic abuser. it's like a trope -- it's so over used

but of course it's also possible she's got bad footing and they are just slippery stairs.

if she did have a black eye back then tho -- why isn't her family mentioning it, she lived with them then -- and why didn't they retaliate. nomatter who did it. why wasn't it a very big deal???

somebody doesn'y just get a black eye - there has to be a fight -- words said -- specific threats -- did heather get in any swings or did she just take it?

I saw that tweet too - about having to make an appearance -- but if there was a stand off at a party/event you'd ecpect there were tons more witnesses . i'd bet Tammy wasn't there but instead home with the kids.

somanyways said...

there seems to be a patters of -- she gets harrassment by Tammy & then violece follows. -- well pattern is only two times and second is vanishing and only assumed violence. but --- what i see is -- heather gets eating out image text from Tammy. (ahhh gross) and THEN gets a black eye.

then weeks later Heather gets harassed again by Sidney and likely Tammy on sidney's phone and then dissapears.


the correlaton between what follows the harrassemt and the harrassment is not clear tho. it's wierd to send a text and then beat up -- & it's weird to make a munch of phone calls and then dissapear. why not just jump yp the latter.

makes me think whoever is doing the violence could be a different party than who is doing the harrassing. course i've thought that fom beginnig.

Katprint said...

March 25, 2014 at 8:47 AM Anonymous said... "So does Mr. Caison become there alibi or is he the driver of the truck now? Sorry, but many accused killers use dead people as either the patsy or the alibi."

If *I* were Sidney Moorer, I would blame known-violent-criminal William Caison for the kidnapping/murder. I would say that Caison -- possibly sharing his daughter's extreme hatred of heather -- was the one who called Heather to set up the meeting, pretending to be me, ESPECIALLY if Heather's remains are found on/near Caison's property. Heck, it might even be the truth.

Blaming William Caison is also good for Tammy Moorer, who could claim that she went crying to her father about her husband cheating on her with Heather then her father took it upon himself to get rid of Heather.

Both Tammy and Sidney could deny helping William Caison with the murder. If their fingerprints/hair/blood etc. are found at the murder scene then they could blame cross-contamination because they had been every room of William Caison's house, ridden in his vehicles, used his landscaping/camping/misc. equipment, and so forth. It's pretty ideal, kind of like Casey Anthony throwing her father under the bus.

Katprint said...

Ooops, forgot to add about the truck:

Tammy and Sidney Moorer would also claim that Tammy's father had keys to their truck, but they didn't know he was going to come borrow it in the middle of the night to commit this murder.

As I sit here typing this, my inlaws currently have keys to our house and our cars, and we have keys to their house and cars. We live in the same town so this makes perfect sense in case anyone locks themself out (which I have done and my mother-in-law had to come let me back in.) I think a properly presented argument based on shared access would create sufficient reasonable doubt to avoid conviction of kidnapping/murder, although maybe there might still be some accomplice-after-the-fact / obstruction of justice culpability.

Angelina said...

somanyway
I had wondered that too, not regarding the first example of the harrassment pic text and black eye, but now that you are finding a correlation, I had thought about the night of Heather's disappearance that what Sidney and Tammy seemed to be doing with the sex around town and if there was a gross pic sent that night to Heather seemed to be one level of "let me prove to myself and Heather He's Mine & I am sexy!" and the luring/violence/disappearance seems to be another level. What I mean is I had wondered whether Sidney and Tammy and doing the gross sex stuff was it's own thing and the disappearance and possible likely violence towards Heather was a different dynamic done by someone else. The gross sex stuff would seem to indicate "I am going to win this contest!" The disappearance/violence would indicate Tammy would have been putting an end to the contest. So, I did wonder could these two things have been done by different people, but when you think about the phone call Sidney answered and then Heather driving right to the dock and disappearing I then begin to doubt whether it was two different sets of people but I defintely get what you are saying.

somanyways said...

Anonymous Angelina said...
somanyway
I had wondered that too, not regarding the first example of the harrassment pic text and black eye, but now that you are finding a correlation, I had thought about the night of Heather's disappearance that what Sidney and Tammy seemed to be doing with the sex around town and if there was a gross pic sent that night to Heather seemed to be one level of "let me prove to myself and Heather He's Mine & I am sexy!" and the luring/violence/disappearance seems to be another level. What I mean is I had wondered whether Sidney and Tammy and doing the gross sex stuff was it's own thing and the disappearance and possible likely violence towards Heather was a different dynamic done by someone else. The gross sex stuff would seem to indicate "I am going to win this contest!" The disappearance/violence would indicate Tammy would have been putting an end to the contest. So, I did wonder could these two things have been done by different people, but when you think about the phone call Sidney answered and then Heather driving right to the dock and disappearing I then begin to doubt whether it was two different sets of people but I defintely get what you are saying.

March 26, 2014 at 4:26 PM


I'm really happy you wrote this. it's nice to have more company in theories :)

IMO there's two different things going on. There's Tammys battle to dominate as the desireable mate, etc. and there's somebody punishing/raging at Heather for having instigated all this trouble in first place. I believe each time the harrassement gets to a point where it really scares Heather -- she goes to somebody for help -- and that person instead of helping -- punishes/rages at heather for being such a tramp/ etc. and Heather so far swallowed the abuse. feeling trapped. and this is why she had all these fantasies about leaving town/ etc, it wasn't just one enemy it was the feeling of being cornered between multiple dangers. THIS is what makes people want to flee - it's not a singular problem - it's when turning for help only gets them in deeper. and they feel there's nobody left to turn to and they feel they have no recourse. it's compounding problems that break people - not a single problem.

the biggest issue I take with assuming the moorers did it IS the illogical - ness of texting graphic pics & murder. the texing of graphoc pics means Tammy cares what Heather thinks -- she's working to shape her perception. murder -- well that just trumps everything -- and totally ecipses texting pics of sex. they are of a very differnent nature and purpose -- totally agree.


somanyways said...

I think - If somebody else killed her - they'd have every reason to capitilize on what they knew and attempt to frame the moorers. they could easily leave Heather's car at the landing and then just expect the record of phone calls to point the finger away from them.

somanyways said...

I wonder exactly what -- "the end of phone data" means. does it mean her phone was broken in that moment? or just turned off?

this doesn't quite make sense -- because Terry reported calling her phone repeatedely until it started only going to voicemail. if the phone was broken at 3:40 a.m. --- why did it take calls for a while two mornings later as if the battery was still in act of draining?

maybe somebody with phone knowledge can answer that.

somanyways said...

just learned phone could still ring - even if no more phone data. so if it went into water all those things could still happen -- loss of data -- ad still ringing two days later.

Angelina said...

somanyways wrote

I believe each time the harrassement gets to a point where it really scares Heather -- she goes to somebody for help -- and that person instead of helping -- punishes/rages at heather for being such a tramp/ etc

This idea you have is very interesting. It does allign also with logic. Heather was being mistreated and terrirized by Tammy & Sidney, and I include Sidney in this because he was not seemingly comforting Heather about Tammy's harrassment perhaps even participating in it by allowing the pics to be taken etc. Oftentimes when a person gets beaten down emotionally they often do reach out to someone who also ends up mistreating them probably cause they are vulnerable and don't believe they deserve better?
Now, falling down stairs and calling oneself a "little b&$th" I would bet that someone else was saying these exact same words to her in some context. Perhaps what you are saying, the context of reaching out for help! I don't like that she called herself that! I get that she is young and young people talk a certain way, but something doesnt sit right with me about her calling herself that! I would guess if someone called her that they were male and probably literally taller than her, very degrading personality. Who is the abusive guy from work Terry mentioned??

Angelina said...

Something I forgot to add about the stairs thing
The language bothers me because I fear someone was physically hurting her and then insulting her for being physically hurt by them, which is quite brutal if that was happening.

somanyways said...

angelina -- I agree somebody taller than her. and male.

and ya -- how could she hve been getting this intense harassment and not turned to any male for assistance??

every woman who's not a martial arts expert has this knowledge that bringing in some muscle is just practical stuff when you are under threat.

but -- it really is hard to explain the PTL, phone data timing. but it's hard to explain it either way.

somanyways said...

and yes -- somebody else was calling her a little b and she was internalizing the language

Angelina said...

somanyways wrote

and yes -- somebody else was calling her a little b and she was internalizing the language

I agree. I absolutely feel she internalized this language from somewhere. A person does not just start calling themselves a "little b&$ch" out of nowhere.
I want to address something from quote Jen Ow posted.

Angelina said...

I don't know what implications this could have about the black eye and who Heather did or did not confide in but this section of the quote grabbed my attention for two reasons

"She came to work with a black eye. We ALL saw it. Including a picture Tammy sent her of Sidney eating her out."
What I think is odd about how this is written is the capitalization of ALL. It's as if it is capitalized to indicate everyone there saw it. Why? Was there ever any question about whether certain people did not see it? It is different than saying "We all saw it". The writer then says "including a picture Tammy sent...."
"Including" a picture
The way it is phrased it is like the writer has seen pictures on a phone that "included" the gross Tammy pic. It almost sounds like the picture of the black eye could have been on the phone?

Angelina said...

Maybe she had taken a pic of the black eye to document it or maybe tge coworker is not being completely honest that every single person at wirk saw it or I could just be wrong too :/

somanyways said...

what I noted about that quite is that she goes on to say how weird it is for one woman to send another woman a pic of her vagina - but she doesn't say it's a big deal for one woman to give another woman a black eye. IMO both things are shocking. and the black eye - in a practical sense - should be even mopre alarming.

somanyways said...

I don't think that even the girl who told this story beliewves the black eye came from tammy.

somanyways said...

why would Heather move out of her family home right in the middle of all this danger? why didn't she seek their protection instead?

Angelina said...

somanyways wrote

what I noted about that quite is that she goes on to say how weird it is for one woman to send another woman a pic of her vagina - but she doesn't say it's a big deal for one woman to give another woman a black eye. IMO both things are shocking. and the black eye - in a practical sense - should be even mopre alarming.

Good catch!
That sentence bothered me for reasons I couldnt quite figure out. I found it strange she emphasized it was a woman sending another woman instead of justfocusing on the harrassing element of it. It made me wonder if the coworker who wrote this was male, because of the emphasis on woman sending to another woman.
Now that Ireadwhat you wrote I see it better. The writer does seem MORE troubled by the picture being sent than the black eye which in the context of Heather being missing and probably killed, the black eye should be what is standing out to the writer I would think.
I don't know why Heather moved out since she was being threatened byTammy and then the fact she had to be alone inher apartment because her roommate was inFlorida!

somanyways said...

i think it was a female relaying story. I think only a straight femail would be baffled by one woman sending another woman pic of her vagina. I think anybody who's actually like getting that pic wouldn't be struck by the oddity oif it so acutely. like how straight guys never quite get certain thing of how it feels to be female -- i'd say only a female would get how weird that would be.

although it reminds me - I forget heather had lots of lesbian sex images on her tumbler. I forgot about that. I had wondered if she was maybe bi. but it's likely neither here nor there anyway.

somanyways said...

i'd reallylike to know why she moved out when she did,

Angelina said...

Yeah, you are probably right about the coworker being female. A guy probably wouldn't find it quite as disturbing! I did not know that about the images on the Tumbler. I wonder why she moved out at that particular time also. I don't think there was pressure on her to move out, as I remember reading on here that someone had wriiten that Terry had wriiten something somewhere about how he was going to feel extremely sad when she moved out. She was still stopping home to get mail at the time she disappeared but other than that info I don't know, I would be curious to know also.

somanyways said...

ya wish she was here tp speak for herself about it, course that goes without saying.

Anonymous said...

Imo moving out maybe because TM and SM could have told HE that since she was pregnant (if she was) she could stay with them, so they go to pick her up, and bam things change.