Friday, March 21, 2014

Mea Culpa Part Two: Learning from Tammy Moorer

Tammy Moorer posted a harsh rant against Heather Elvis while she went missing.  This indicated to me that she did not likely possess guilty knowledge of Heather's disappearance at the time of her posting.

I was wrong.

I do not recall a case in which a suspect so openly raged in hatred against her victim.

What is the expected?

In Statement Analysis, we set up the "expected"; that is, what we expect to hear.

Guilty persons will generally find a way to justify their behavior by blaming the victim, but in a subtle, suggestive way, like the rapist attempting to suggest that his victim 'asked' for it.  Even pedophiles have found small, vile ways to blame the child, yet in a veiled manner.  The contempt is concealed, but the 'leakage' takes place.

Tammy Moorer's post, when coupled with the bold charge of murder, while no body remains, if true, tells us not only about the ferocity of her rage, but in her own twisted mind, just how justified she feels about her actions.

The guilty do not want to draw attention to themselves.

This tells me that either police are wrong and Tammy was not involved in the murder or...

Tammy Moorer is unadulterated evil, not only exploding upon an innocent victim, but who, in a "God-like status of Judge over life and death" thinks more of herself than most of us can possibly imagine.

The "grandiose" self view, when taken to its final extreme, means the person considers herself "God", in the giver and taker of life, sense.  This entitlement is difficult to grasp by us, because even in today's society of entitlement, this is extreme.

A sexually immoral person herself, she passed not only judgment upon a young girl's indiscretion with her husband, but she passed final judgment, in her mind at least, upon Heather.

As long time readers know, I have not given status of "deception indicated" or "veracity indicated" to a subject only to be found out to be wrong later.

In this case, it was not deception or veracity, but being confronted by the "expected" but not from a guilty party.

Should it be proven in court that Tammy did not murder Heather, that only Sidney did, it will be that her open rage was more in line with the "expected" in the statement.  A guilty person does not want to draw attention, particularly, guilty looking attention, to herself.  Was this a "double negative" case, therefore, where the subject knows this and goes ahead with the post so as to later claim a guilty person would not show such hatred?

I don't think so.

Going back to the supposition of guilt:  that officials would not have dared to bring such serious charges against her, without a body, unless they possessed crucial evidence, we look at her post, with murder in mind.

Grandiose.

Deity-Qualiites

I must learn from this mistake, knowing that the guilty do not wish to draw attention to themselves with open hatred, instead, leaking out hatred while attempting to "search" or "care" for the victim

Let's revisit the analysis with this question in mind:






"Well Sidney cheated" begins her posted statement.  Where someone begins the statement is often the most important part of the statement, and may even be the reason for the statement.  Recall we are working from the supposition of the murder charge sans body.

She has just been involved in a murder.  One might think that a person who commits murder, without a prior record, would be traumatized by the violence of it.

No such trauma seen.

Sidney cheating is on her mind, more than anything else.

Question:  How can it be that one has just murdered and disposed of the body of a 20 year old, and not have it dominant in her thoughts?

Answer:  Either she didn't do it, or we are looking at someone very, very different than others.  The extremity of my thought is seen in the repetition of "very" in my sentence.  I'm not even sure if a comma is needed after the first "very" since this is not something I am accustomed to writing.  I struggle to show how rare this is.

Sidney cheating on her, not murder, nor fear of being caught, is dominant in the statement. 

"psycho whore" is her first introduction of Heather Elvis.  She avoids using the name.  Even while "missing", the name calling comes before the report of being missing, and even that, only concludes that Sidney is "stupid."

Now we are viewing this from the presumption of guilt, based upon the murder charge.  With this in context, think of the word "stupid."

Who is someone that is called "stupid"?


If you were the injured spouse in infidelity, it is likely that you would have hatred towards the "other woman" in the relationship.  But would you call her names if you had killed her, and not been caught yet?

This is her choice of words to describe the "other woman" of whom her husband had a relationship with.  This is an interesting choice of words.  First,  "psycho" indicates negative mental health, while "whore" is used to describe a woman of immodesty.  Why would one who claims to be in an "open marriage" call the young missing woman a "whore"?  We look for answers within the statement itself.

"who has since went missing" and not  "is missing."  "Went" is past tense.  "Is missing" is present tense and shows its focus on the present distress:  a young woman missing.  The subject is in the past, which makes sense since she began with Sidney cheated"  Her concern is not the welfare of the young woman, nor assisting in her recovery.

This past tense reference shows no concern for being caught.  I have to stand on this.  She may be off the charts out of percentages, but it is what it is.

"her crazy daddy" is not her "distraught father"

He must be "crazy", that is "not in his right mind" or "not thinking clearly" to target whom?  Her?  No, she goes to the claim of threat against her own children and Sidney.  One can imagine someone saying to her, "Give me information where Heather is!  What if it was your child missing?" and this "God" (her mind) now leaping to...

murder.

Here in may be the leakage of marbles.

Do I think Terry Elvis or one of his friends threatened to kill her children?  No.  I think that it is likely that one would say, "How would you feel if this was your child?" but the "God" heard it from the point of her own guilt:  Projection.

"How would you like it if this was your child?" is followed with "How would you like WHAT?"

What?

"what happened to Heather? is the answer.

Tammy's mind goes to death.

"Threatening to kill my children."


I don't think so.

Does this sound like the wording of someone afraid of drawing attention to herself as a possible suspect?

No.

But if she really "did it", not only is she utterly unafraid of drawing attention to herself, she may have just projected that she did, in deed, kill Heather.

"is threatening" is present tense.  Note she does not quote what he said.  What if he said, "What would you be like if your child was missing?" and she turned this into a "threat."  Threats are often capable of causing an emotional response triggering a quote.

Tammy is "up to the task" of anyone threatening.  She is "God", the "Judge" and "Executioner" and has taken life.

Question:  did the judge rightfully deny bail as Sidney and Tammy were a threat of violence to the community?

Answer:  Yes.

Recall Sidney answering the door with a loaded weapon.  I imagine Tammy barking out the orders to him.

"therefore, making Sidney stupid."  

Q.  Who is stupid?

A.   One who is not as smart as the name caller.

Q.   Who is the name caller?

A.  Tammy Moorer

Tammy is "smart", not "stupid" like Sidney.  Tammy is "sane" and not "crazy" like Heather's father.


Note that Sidney cheating on her does not make him stupid, but the reaction from Terry Elvis, desperate to find his daughter, has made Sidney "stupid."  Is this because he chose the wrong woman to cheat with?  Is this because the woman he cheated with went missing?  Has Sidney told her the truth about their relationship?  She feels that he has brought this trouble into her household.

Has Sidney told her the truth about his last contact with Heather Elvis?

"this girl" is now her second choice of words after "pyscho whore" she is now "this" (close) and "girl", not "woman."

That she calls Heather "this" girl, signaling closeness, is not expected to be heard if she had committed any violence against Heather.  In violent statements, we see more distancing language.  She is unafraid to keep close proximity to the victim.  This is not something expected from a guilty person.  It is most unexpected.

"naming him!" uses an exclamation point.  Note what triggers an exclamation point and what does not.

Heather Elvis going missing does not trigger exclamation point.

She, as "God", is 'smart', not "stupid" like Sidney.  She would take care of things that he messed up.  He brought this into her life.  Terry Elvis is not sane, like her, in her mind.

Sidney cheating does not trigger exclamation point. That he is "named" is very important to her, with the context being social media account.  This is used to 'prove' that it is not his fault.  He is only "stupid" but she is the "pyscho whore."  She is not concerned about herself being named.

Grandiose thinking, to the extreme.

She then calls him "my husband" when she does not know what to call him.  At the time of this posting, she is not done with him.  He is "my" (possessive pronoun) "husband" (title).  Although not a good relationship, he is still hers at the time of this writing.  They were unified.

If you research her accounts you will find, according to Moorer's language that Heather Elvis is a "twisted person."

As a "twisted person", the sexually immoral Tammy Moorer had to pass sentence upon her and take care of Sidney's "stupidity" by using her "smartness."

What has changed in context to cause "pyscho whore girl" to turn into a "twisted" "person" (gender neutral)?

"I could care less seeing that I had a boyfriend of my own for the past couple of years" is a sentence in the negative (care less) making it important.  This sounds almost juvenile, something an immature teenager would say (along with her foul language), but this is from a middle aged woman.


"I will not tolerate anyone hurting my children because my husband banged a hoe..."

The "God-like" Tammy will not "tolerate", that is, "allow by inactivity or passivity" anyone hurting her children.

She is confident in her ability to control.  She may allow her children to live in utter neglect, but it is her control, her choice, and she will not "tolerate", which suggests consequence for one who may try to "hurt" her children.

a.  Note the inclusion of the pronoun "I" here, making this statement personal.  Powerful.
b.  Note the word "because" explains why she will not allow anyone to hurt her children: as she feels the need to explain why she would, now, be protective.
c.  "my husband" is possessive pronoun.

She is in control, in her mind.



"I could care less what he screwed around with"

Unlike her own "boyfriend", here, Heather elvis is now reduced to "what" instead of "person."  This is a depersonalization of Heather Elvis.  In the context of murder, this now makes sense.  Originally I considered that:

"It could be from extreme pain of being humiliated in his cheating, or it could be that she knows something more and has a different need to depersonalize Heather Elvis.  I think it is the former."

I was wrong.

Note that this is her second "care less" sentence, in the negative.  This is a very important sentence.  The first one she sought to prove how she could "care less" because she had a boyfriend, which was asserted only weakly, and not reliable.

Here, the "what" is something she cares less over.

Taken together, it is likely that she cares acutely what he did. She was deeply "offended" and given her "God like" status, Sidney failed to honor and worship her, and by having sex with someone else, she will take her vengeance and will take away from Sidney what he wanted.

That she murdered Heather may indicate that it was true that Sidney was going to leave Tammy.  She would not abide such insult to her grandiose self view.

 This is a subject who is feeling extreme pain and humiliation due to her husband's actions.  She would turn this on her victim.

"this jerk" is the father of a missing young woman.  This is stronger language than what she used on her cheating husband.  Her husband is only "stupid."

"stalking my family" indicates that Terry Elvis believes that the answer to his daughter's plight rests within Sidney Moorer, and whatever he shared with his wife.  This proved to be true.

Statement Analysis Conclusion

I wrote:  "Tammy Moorer, at the time of this writing, does not show guilty knowledge of what happened to Heather Elvis."

This is not so.

My original reason:

"The disparagement among the guilty is subtle. Remember, the guilty do not wish to be seen as guilty, but in a positive light, which is why the disparagement is done in a subtle, almost 'leaking' manner."

This is the norm.  Tammy Moorer is the exception.

Here, the anger is so deep that the subject (Tammy Moorer) does not care how calloused she appears. She is "justified" in her own mind, as she passed the judgement upon the victim.


At the time of the writing, she still loves her husband, who has lied to her about the nature of his relationship with Heather Elvis, suggesting it was deeper than Tammy Moorer wishes to have seen, and the number of times they were intimate is also  minimized.

Tammy Moorer sees herself as smarter than others, more moral than others, and to the point of self importance so high, that she, as her own "God", could judge, condemn, and execute her victim.

I did not see this, and it is likely in future cases, that I will not see it again.

Why not?

Because the guilty do not wish to draw attention to themselves by openly disparaging the victim.  The guilty seek to hide guilt.

If we have 100 similar cases, in the next few years, it is likely that we will not see another Tammy Moorer, female, who believes herself to be divine judge and executioner.  Only the insane make such claims and do not care to hide their guilt.

Either Tammy didn't do it, or she did it, and is the rare self-delusioned killer, who believes she did what was right, damn the consequences, and would...

do it again.


Edit:  It was generously pointed out by a commentator of a change in language of the post that I did not highlight.

Heather "went" missing.

The tweets have "gone missing."

158 comments:

Nic said...

This is my analysis I posted in an earlier thread.

How I came up with her killing Heather differently, I also concluded that Heather was pregnant.

"daddy" is out of place. Heather was 20, not two. It wasn't Heather's father who threatened Tammy/family. But daddy was on her mind when she said that she wouldn't tolerate "anyone" hurting her children because of, paraphrasing, random/meaningless sex.

Sidney and Heather's sex wasn't random, it wasn't meaningless, it wasn't only a few times.

"anyone" = unknown

Every player is known, except for maybe one? A baby?
****************

"...now her crazy daddy is threatening to kill my children and Sidney, therefore making Sidney stupid."

If I recall correctly, Heather's dad didn't threaten to kill anybody. If I recall correctly, it was a "friend" on Facebook who suggested someone "kidnap" one of Terry and Sidney's kids to entice them to reveal where Heather was. As in "an eye for an eye". They said 'kidnap", Tammy said "kill". Seepage.

I will not tolerate anyone hurting my children because my husband banged a hoe 3 times in the backseat of her car and nothing more.

... "and nothing more" = and that's all I know. Except that there is *a lot* more to what was between Sidney and Heather, else, Tammy wouldn't have bothered to harass Heather the first week of November. And Sidney wouldn't have called Heather in *December* saying he wanted to leave his wife.

She will not tolerate "anyone" coming from Sidney "banging a hoe" hurting her children.


Nic said...

"stupid" is "lacking intelligence or common sense".

Having an affair isn't "stupid" in the conventional sense. Not using birth control would be "stupid".

JoAnn said...

When you are analyzing a statement, does it matter who was the intended audience of the statement? When Tammy's statement was first posted, some questioned whet it was posted as a FB status or as a private message. Would it matter? Does it matter if the person writing the statement has written in a journal, expecting no one to see the words, or has posted something on the internet, expecting the eyes of the role to see?

Nic said...

Another woman (Heather) was hurtful to Tammy.

Another baby/family would be hurtful to *her* children.

Rachael said...

Great article Peter.

I believe that TM is very very different, so much so that I'm not sure I want to hear the evidence. I'm not sure I want to know what happened to Heather, I suspect it will be more depraved than I can imagine.

C5H11ONO said...

If this is an email response to someone that emailed her maybe “what’s going on?” It may be that she is responding via email to one person a summary if you will of what’s happening in her life recently. She may have projected guilty knowledge. She was professing extreme rage towards Heather to one person. Would she have done the same publicly? It shows leakage though. She starts by explaining that Sidney cheated on her. In fact, the sentence itself appears as if it originally had the word “again” at the end but she removed it. Then she went on to explain he is stupid. In all caps was it? I believe she called him stupid because of what he did (kill Heather). That’s her leakage. She wrote it in context of cheating, but it wasn’t, it was because she was thinking really of what he did. So there may be guilty knowledge in the statement after all.

What if Sidney did kill Heather? If he did and then he used her to help him get rid of the body then she would definitely refer to him as “stupid”, but not for cheating, but because she knows the stupidity of what he did. The rotting food left at the table wasn’t described as all the food was never disposed of, but only a meal “rotting meat and potatoes”. Maybe she left it there as a reminder to her stupid husband of what he did. I believe that would be an indicator that they had a big fight that night and he left.

It makes sense that Sidney would have been the one to explain to her later that Heather died because when he went to break it off with her “there was something not right about her”, which Tammy uses or reflects in her message. If Sidney was the one that met up with Heather and she refused to re-hook up with him, he could have killed her, perhaps with the knowledge that he stood up to his dominant wife, saw the light of freedom only to have it disappear in seconds with Heather’s rejection. I think the only reason Heather went to meet with him was because he was insistent and she felt bad for him. He must have told later told Tammy “his” version of events, and Tammy although aware of the truth loves him and agrees to help him. Being the dominant one steps in to help him dispose of evidence or take care of things. This could be why she set up her house in protective mode and lead the smear campaign against Terry. There is a combination of reasons why I believe this and in reading the Love reasons they posted about each other this theory would fit. For example. Sidney’s reasons #1-4 make sense if that is the case, especially the “strength” that must have been needed at one time recently – maybe it was Tammy who actually lifted Heather's body and put it in the water (my assumption only). Tammy stuck by him after he told her what happened. She put up with his many flaws (even murder) and still loved him. He can’t thank her enough (that's in his reasons post). She must have done a huge favor. Those are things one would write to someone that has helped you out during one major event.

Tammy’s reasons for loving him are different. In fact she considers him a phenomenal husband. The fact she brings up violence in her reason for loving him is interesting. He has never lost his temper, hit her or hurt her in any way. Was this some sort of alibi building for him? Isn’t it unnecessary when number 1 reason is he is a phenomenal husband? In her reason number six she is trying to portray him as incapable of harm. Again, isn’t this her attempts to make him look “innocent”? In her writing she doesn’t try to build alibis for herself, but for Sidney. Isn’t that odd? Where is reason number 7? Is it the tremendous paragraph she dedicated to him about feeling guilty for hurting him when she left him? This is embarrassing stuff. This is her domineering personality coming out. She still has to demonstrate to others that she is accepting Sidney’s cheating because she too was a cheater of sorts?

Nic said...

I wonder if this exchange is what prompted Tammy to write that post?

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z285/JRLAKE/1387C64E-78B9-466B-B086-B179D5C20C88_zpsy0hi5q2f.png

Sus said...

I hope I can explain what I mean clearly because it is extremely difficult to describe a narcissist's mind.

A narcissist is a false construct of their own making. They create a false persona and life around that persona. It is subconscious and ingrained in how they see themselves. They spend their entire lives controlling their environment (and people) to keep their false persona in place. Any threat to their "self" is met with unbelievable rage and need for revenge.

Since the narcissists only objective is to keep her false self construct in place, she permits herself to say or do anything to do just that. It's a matter of self preservation.

And since others are simply objects to bolster her false self, the narcissist really doesn't count that you can see or hear her words or actions.

In other words, it doesn't register to Tammy Moorer that we can see her for what she really is! We don't matter. Only how she sees herself matters. She can say and do what she wants, she expects her objects to see her for what she says she is...the false construct she created in her sick mind.

It is easy to call people narcissists, and there are many on the continuum in today's world. But Tammy Moorer is an example of a true Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it's destructiveness to lives.

elf said...

Nic, I tried the link and it said the image has been moved.

Terrence said...

"...rare self-delusioned killer, who believes she did what was right, damn the consequences, and would...
do it again."

Don't beat yourself up - this is far more common than you think.

There is much obvious projection in TM's posting;

I would love to hear you expand on projectors and how their power to deny and twist affects SA.

Eleni said...

Nic, is the pregnancy scenario likely given that Heather said, "I'm nobody you need to worry about anymore."?

I, too, wonder about it.

Given her age, I think she would have spoken about it to a friend. So far, there is no mention about it from the prosecution, eventhough South Carolina does have a fetal homicide law.

elf said...

Tammy's Facebook post against heather is what made Tammy the prime suspect in my eyes. It was your teachings Peter that led me to that conclusion. I know in the past you've said to watch for the subtle disparagement of the victim, Tammy's is blatantly venomous. In Tammy's sick mind all her problems were supposed to end when she got rid of Heather...except that stupid Sidney is still moping around. Except that Heathers dad is pointing a finger at Sidney, and the way Tammy planned this Heather just 'went missing'. Tammy got rid of Heather, got rid of the threat to her happy marriage and perfect family, but like the tell tale heart, Heather is STILL MESSING UP TAMMYS LIFE. Tammy is probably sitting in her cell right now still blaming Heather. If it wasn't for Heather and her dad Tammy's life would still be a dream.
I am wondering if the 'twisted person' part is leakage? Someone hit by a vehicle may be twisted and mangled...

Anonymous said...

I think in time we will learn that Tammy forced Sidney to strangle Heather at gun point. Tammy would not have her ultimate revenge unless she witnessed Heather's realization of Sidney's ultimate rejection. Nothing would make Tammy happier. Sending the obscene pics to Heather wasn't enough. What better way to punish both Sidney and Heather? Tammy is pure evil.

Anonymous said...

I thought Tammy stating that Sydney acting stupid was alibi building. Rather than acting stupid because they just murdered someone, but is acting stupid because he is being accused by the Heather's father. Like Billy Dunn- stating her daughter went missing while she was at work.

Nic said...

I just came across this site. It has some screen shots from Sydney and Tammy's FB acc't (I'm presuming). It also shows a picture dated Feb 11 of Sidney getting the Tammy tattoo. Maybe it was his Valentine's gift to her. http://upstatecriminals.blogspot.ca/2014/02/heather-elvis-disappearance-arrests.html

Also, given the timing of it, could it be considered as a "memorial" tattoo? If not Tammy's then who else could he belong to?

Nic said...

Elf, the link is working for me. ? I'm trying to find another link for you (hence my above find).

Nic said...

Eleni, I don't know what "I'm no one you need to worry about anymore." means.

That was in response to Tammy finding out about Sidney having an affair. Tammy keeps asking who Heather is/to let her know where she is. Threatens her not to make her go find her and that it wouldn't end well "that way".

Heather's brother posted that local LE told him Tammy punched Heather so it sounds like Tammy found Heather and made good on her threat.


Nic said...

Back to the tattoo of Feb 11. Note the gun. Is that what would befall anyone who "trespassed" (too)? Is that how they killed Heather?

Eleni said...

@1:35a pay phone call. Heather answers and has a 4 min+ conversation with Sidney.

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE REASON Heather answered a PAY PHONE call in the FIRST place.

It is 1:35AM

AND 20yo Heather is ALONE in the apartment- roommate gone.

Heather is at least AWARE Tammy is a threat of some kind.

NEVERTHELESS, Heather answers!

How does the pay phone number display on her phone? Is it UNKNOWN CALLER? If so, very creepy, given the time and circumstances, would she answer such a call?

OR, was the creepy element not involved, ie, recognizing it as "call-friendly", specifically, or generally in some way familiar to her.

@1:44a (2.20 min conversation w/Friend who is in Florida at the time of the call.

@1:46.20a LAST KNOWN time HEATHER STILL ALIVE.

@2.29a attempted call from HEATHER'S phone to SIDNEY'S. Without further proof- we CANNOT know if the attempted call was made by HEATHER OR SOMEONE ELSE. Did SOMEONE(S) enter her apartment, with or without her consent.

FURTHERMORE, Heather may already be dead at this point. WE DONT KNOW.

Anonymous said...

This one from Tammy's list concerns me considering Heather hasn't been found. Sidney didn't acknowledge it in his list either.

3. You are an awesome chef. ;)

Anonymous said...

Anon --

Sidney spent some time at a cooking school. And Tammy clearly loves to eat -- I think that's what was meant, but your implication is pretty horrific.

Anonymous said...

I have one question about this case . I read yesterday that a certain make of truck was caught on camera going both to and from the Peachtree Landing. There were 81 of these make/model/yr trucks registered in the state. 81. Look closely at that number 81 (it's a BIG number) and the LAST of the 81 trucks LE looked at was the Moorer's. Why?
Why wasnt it the very first one? Why was it the last?

JoAnn said...

Anon @ 1:44,
In one of Tammy's (many) posts on the Disney travelogue blog, she said that Sidney attended culinary arts school at Johnson & Wales.

Jen Ow said...

Hi C5H-

Your right, TM was summerizing what had been going on. This was a public posting on Tammy's Facebook, in response to someone complimenting a picture of her house. (way out of bounds! ). Someone commented, 'nice house', and TM responded "Thanks, my stupid husband built it". The person then asked why she called him stupid, and she replied with the above post.

TM could have ignored the person's question, but instead she posted this vile oversharing rant, showcasing her hatred and the whole humiliating story.

She wanted the public, LE, Terry Elvis and the rest of Heather's loved ones, her friends, and every stranger who was looking at her FB to see the post, and know HER truth. She felt justified.

Even after murdering Heather her rage was not satisfied. She raged against Terry Elvis, knowing the pain she had already inflicted would last a lifetime. She broadcast her anger toward Sidney's stupidity, but saved her harshest words for her victim Heather.

TM's underlying message is clear...Heather is to blame, she's the instigator of the affair, she's a psycho, a whore, and even now that she is gone...she is STILL a thorn in my side thanks to her 'crazy daddy'.

It's hard to imagine the mentality of a 40+yo woman who would behave this way, publicly slandering their victim and indignantly taunting LE, and her victim's family.

JoAnn said...

Anon at 1:57
There wee 82 such trucks in the area. Police went and visually inspected 81 of those trucks. The last of those trucks was the Moorers' so police got a search warrant and executed it on Feb 21.
The police were doing their homework by ruling out the other trucks. That information allowed them to get a search warrant.

Anonymous said...

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/24996166/defense-attorneys-insist-moorers-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty

Can't argue with defense saying there's a mob mentality.

Nic said...

Eleni, your theory fits. It could have been the way Sidney and Tammy connected (booty call via the pay phone) so she would know it was him/to pick up the number - using is phone to call her would be a flag to Tammy when she read the cell phone statement. He probably said something like he was leaving Tammy for her (why she would have been open to letting him in if he showed up at her door... he was available.)

Friend said she sounded upset. (Tears? Sniffing?) Maybe she was happy.

They have a romp.

The call back to the pay phone could be Sidney calling the number himself from Heather's apartment while Heather is in the bathroom. (pre-mediated murder)

He kills her.

Calls Tammy. She doesn't get the first call so calls again and says "it's done". Confirm the pre-arranged meeting place.

He calls when he gets to the boat landing. (Where are you?) He's in panic mode because he has a dead body with him. Doesn't want too much time to pass else the cadaver scent will be evident.

In one of the articles I read about the video description about the truck arriving at the landing is that a private video has them approaching. The business video has the truck "speeding" by.

Tammy arrives. They transfer Heather from her car to their truck. Lock it up and leave.

JoAnn said...

^^^^were

JoAnn said...

Hi Sus,
Your description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is chillingly right on. Heather was the threat that would expose Tammy as the not-so-desirable wife with the not-very-devoted-after-all husband. That would be intolerable to her and the need to destroy the threat would be compelling.

Anonymous said...

Joann, I don't understand what that means "the last of the trucks was the Moorer's". I understand they would need a search warrant which could be granted pronto. Why did they visually inspect 81 of the trucks and save the Moorer's for last. Since these trucks were registered, LE would have gotten from a computer a printout of all 82 trucks, the names and addresses of the owners. It doesnt make any sense for them to inspect the other 81 trucks first for many reasons.

Anonymous said...

JoAnn @ 1:58 The winky smiley is what alarms me, like it's a secret they share.

Jen Ow said...

The article I read stated that investigators physically tracked down and looked at EVERY one of the 81 trucks for elimination purposes, after the enhanced FBI analysis of the surveillance videos gave them defining characteristics to look for, like the type of headlamps, tool box, etc.

The Moorer's truck was the only one that matched, and therefore they were granted a search warrant. (This is the process LE has to go through to ensure valid warrants, and evidence that will hold up in court.)

Anonymous said...

if there are 82 trucks of same description in town how can they be sure it's not two different trucks going one way and then the other on the video?

Anonymous said...

it doesn't say it matched, its just the one the chose to get a warrant for.

Anonymous said...

could you post link? If they did say that about truck I missed it - I'd like to read it thanks.

Anonymous said...

81

Anonymous said...

Anon, here's what it says from the article, it's towards the end of a very long article

MAIT Team investigators learned there were 82 such trucks registered to owners living in Horry County, so they went and visually inspected 81 trucks, Elder said. The last of those trucks was owned by the Moorers, so police got a search warrant and executed it on Feb.

Onoma said...

Anony 1:57, excellent point!

Anonymous said...

Sorry, there were 82 trucks in HORRY COUNTY, not in the whole state.

JoAnn said...

Anonymous,
www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/03/18/4104390/testimony-weaves-a-tale

...video surveillance of the vehicle was sent to the FBI in Quantico, VA, and to the SC Highway Patrol's Multi-Disciplinary Accident Investigation Team with a request to identify the vehicle...

ima.grandma said...

Hi everyone
I'm so glad to be out of that damn hospital! I was released this morning. I had to stay an extra day because I started having chest pains and my blood pressure was acting crazy after recovery. First it was too high, then too low. I had to take nitro every hour then they spread a nitro paste on my chest to adjust the dosage. It made me so nauseous and immediately I had a severe headache like I've never had before. My daughter is helping me type most of this ("Hi" says daughter) I'm having trouble with arm and hand movements because I was operated on in the thoracic area - compression fractures of T5, T6 and T7 -  using my hands affects the shoulder blade area spreading across the entire bra line. The surgeon told me to expect pain when I begin to recuperate and not to overdo it, but of course, I am so stubborn I had to prove it to myself; he was right, it is painful. ("I told you so Mom" says daughter "and she's right, she is frustratingly stubborn!") I had the most painful fractures done first and a month from now we will concentrate on the others, mainly T11 and T12 before we begin the lumbar areas.

My daughter has been checking the blog for me to see if there was any news about Myra. I'm so upset about the lack of progress. 

She told me that there were people asking about me and that the 'nonsense' I warned her about was still going on in anonland. 'wink wink'  I think she got a kick out of it but couldn't keep up with the flow of the comments ("yes, I did" says daughter) btw, I laughed so much while reading your comments, I started coughing and those of you with a surgical history know what I'm talking about. My body is so achy right now but I think it will be worth it in the long run to prevent further fractures.

Anyway, I can hardly wait until I start feeling better and I can properly thank you for all for the love you've shown. You make me feel special. I"ll have to settle with being a spectator for a bit but I'll be full of smiles :) and hope for the missing and their families.

("thank you for being nice to my mama, she enjoys being a part of something and calls you guys her friends, it also makes her stay still enough to heal" says daughter.)

Anonymous said...

Oh Ok thanks, I did not know there was the only one that matched, I thought the yr of the truck was ambiguous, they could narrow it down to 2 different yrs. It seems like wasted time, bc evidence could have been hidden by the Moorer's. But what you are saying makes sense.

Jen Ow said...

Anon 2:16

This is standard operating procedure. This is how warrants are obtained. Investigators must show probable cause to believe the Moorer's truck is THE truck seen on the surveillance video, in order to get a warrant.

If they don't examine the other trucks for similarities shared with the truck in the video, then there are 80+ other possibilities that haven't been eliminated.


JoAnn said...

Ima.grandma!!!
Hello to you! I'm so glad to hear you're on the road to recovery, although it's been a rough road, hasn't it?
Aren't daughters wonderful? It sounds like yours is a prize.
Hi ima's daughter!
We've had our own trouble following some of those posts!

Keep smiling, ima! Great to hear from you!

Anonymous said...

thanks re MAIT
doesn't sound like they were ruling the other trucks out in those other visual inspections based on any factors --- or they would say that each truck was ruled out for a reason.

I expect they just looked at the others to say they looked at the others and they knew the moorers truck was what they were after from begining.


this is such a tough case to guage because nearly the whole town including police had their minds made up moorers were the killers and then worked to prove what they believed/

they might be right about it. they might indeed be guilty. -- but from a distace it looks like they defefndants were railroaded. and so -- I can't believe in their guilt or innocence rt now.

there's just not enought clear information/

JoAnn said...

Anonymous,
The surveillance video of the Moorer truck was shown in court at the bond hearing, presented as evidence against the Moorers. I would expect the Moorer's attorneys, when pleading their case for bond, to say "Your Honor, that truck in the video isn't my client's truck. That truck could belong to any one of 81 other people in Horry County."
But they didn't say that.

Jen Ow said...

Bless your heart! I'm so glad you are at least home where you can relax and heal. Feel better!

(And, thank you to your daughter for helping you check in. How sweet !)

somanyways said...

if ridiculing me on the internet brings you all greater health and happiness…. um just be sure to follow it up with lots of herbal tea because it does wonders to prevent post surger infection.

Anonymous said...

it's not time to say that, they don't get to present defense during bond hearing

john said...


Hi Peter,

When i read the 911 call transcript from the Raven Abaroa case, i couldn't type quick enough to flag all of the SA tells that i have learned over the last couple of years from yourself.(That have been ingrained into my Psyche (not you personally) to be aware of the language people use, which is a good thing in my opinion, considering i can be naive at times when it comes to trusting people.

However, is also a double edge sword. It is very difficult to switch it off. Its akin to me. Ive been studying Body Language, and Micro Expressions for the last 15 years, and that is also difficult to switch off.

I guess we have to way up the situation to see whether it is worth addressing or not. Ie, high stakes, or just the little white lies that we all do day after day.

Thank you for passing on your knowledge to us, and long may it continue.

Ps.

Avinoam Sapir is a genius.

Anonymous said...

I'm the anon that asked the ques and just wanted to say I believe it prob was their truck. Just wanted to know why they wouldnt inspect it first was all.
Now, what about the 6 am phone call? Has that been explained?

Sus said...

Hi ima.grandma and daughter!
Glad you're doing better and rest up. Thanks for the smiles even through your rough time. :-)

Anonymous said...

somanyways, I would ignore it, imagrandma says that her daughter typed most of the post she just wrote for her...if the daughter was typing of it, how did she know where to put in the :) (smiley faces) and how come every few lines has a quote from her daughter written by imagrandma as all the quotes say "my daughter say......."

Anonymous said...

I"m a different anon and not sure if t's their truck or not

JoAnn said...

Hi john,
I've heard that 911 call so many times on our local news. But seeing it in print! Wow. It is ripe for SA.

john said...

ima.grandma.

(((BIG HUGS)))

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

somanyways said...

you are right -- Im kinda sorry i posted that. I/m tired of being bullied -- even in name of people who just need some comfort. it made me mad. but i'm just in a bad mood today. I got my own real life troubles. I hope everybody young and old sick and well right or wrong in anythingtheu say or do on here stays well and gets better and better,

JoAnn said...

John,
Have you read Abaroa's blog entries from his website?
"If I Were A Bird" and the others?

Anonymous said...

(((somanyways)))) Hugs! I value you as a member of this group. I'm sorry you are having troubles. I understand how you feel, I have troubles too and it stinks to get bullied on here. It is so ridiculous, as, from my own observations I think it is some of the "regulars" on here actually do have fake separate personalities under fake names or sometimes write anon posts trying to "imitate" the maligned anons. Some of the "regulars" who are good-hearted dont seem to have caught onto it yet. But that's just how it is. I hope you have a good weekend. Dont let anyone drag you down ok, just tune it out if you can bc it's such BS.

Hobnob said...

off topic

Remember this case going back a while and several of us picked up on redflags in the father's statements (bungee cord, trying to break in through a wallrather than the window etc?

A Missouri man allegedly abandoned his two young sons to die in a trailer fire and lied to police about his efforts to save them, court documents allege.

Randy M. Garrison, 31, has been charged with two counts of child endangerment in the deaths of 1-year-old Ashton Garrison and 3-year-old Roger Garrison, both of whom died in a Dec. 10 fire in Ray County.

Garrison has previously told authorities he tripped on a bungee cord while trying to save his boys, falling face-down into the fire. He then fled the home and tried to reach the boys by ripping off siding from the trailer but was overcome by smoke, he said.

Court documents, however, indicate that Garrison changed several parts of his account during questioning, the Kansas City Star reports.

Garrison did not have burns or carbon monoxide levels consistent with someone who had experienced a fire as he described and a firefighter said he found no damage to the trailer consistent with someone trying to enter it from the outside.

Garrison said he woke up to a nightmare and thought the fire was much bigger than it was when confronted about those inconsistencies, according to court documents.

“Maybe I panicked, maybe I didn’t think, I don’t know,” he said.

Garrison, who is scheduled to be arraigned Friday and is being held on $100,000 bond, allegedly told an officer days after the fire that a woman who had lived at the trailer threatened to kill him and his sons. Garrison said he thought the unidentified woman had abducted his sons, court documents indicate.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/21/missouri-father-allegedly-left-young-sons-to-die-in-fire-court-documents-show/?intcmp=latestnews

Jen Ow said...

"doesn't sound like they were ruling the other trucks out in those other visual inspections based on any factors --- or they would say that each truck was ruled out for a reason.

I expect they just looked at the others to say they looked at the others....."

Are you saying that you expect a news article to outline the evidentiary findings of the investigation into the trucks?? And since it doesn't, that means inveatigators likely didn't REALLY inspect them to rule them out, just to say that they looked at them??

-AGAIN, this is SOP. This is how warrants are obtained. This is not something that they invented for the Moorer's case.

Investigators followed protocol to obtain a warrant. They investigated and presented their findings to a judge, and based on that evidence the judge granted a search warrant for their truck.

The evidence and the identifying factors that led investigators to the Moorer's truck, along with the evidence obtained from the warrant will be presented AT TRIAL.

Anonymous said...

John, I am the same way. Tammy's words are the closest I've ever seen to that of my ex. He is a monster. I learned SA while I was in the process of escaping, it took a year to enact my plan to get my children and myself out safely. SA helped tremendously in my ability to see the monster and no longer be manipulated. Now when he writes, "I just want to know more about what's going on, not in a monster under the bed kind of way," all I see is "I want far more than to just know MORE about what's going on, in a monster under the bed way." I have no choice and contact is maintained, my children. SA led me to require that contact is never verbal, always written so I can take his words apart.

I instinctively do this with everyone. I have a boyfriend now and I trust him because he rarely uses qualifiers or states things in the negative, etc. It's always "I love you, I care about you" never "love you or I love you so so much or I just really care about you a lot."

Fascinating and useful in most of my relationships, whether it's my mom or the checker at the grocery store. I know who is deceptive and when.

My heart hurts for Elaine Redwine. Up until reading today's analysis of Tammy, Mark was the only person whose words reminded me of my ex. Tammy is far more similar. Even my thoughts are corrected by SA. I think "my monster" and stop myself, "the monster".

GeekRad said...

Welcome back ima grandma and feel better soon somanyways. Not to worry. We all have bad days and have said my share of things I wish I hadn't

GeekRad said...

Anon at 3:31, I think there regulars here that post as anons too. And also former regulars who post as anons now. And sometimes anons who imposters of regulars. It is all pretty easy to spot and ignore. Well, maybe not all of it...........

JoAnn said...

Hi somanyways,
I'm sorry for your troubles :(
Bad moods & frustration are usually the reason for less than civil exchanges, not a desire to wound. The study of words & how they're used is what we love & have in common. We can move on. Feel better.

Anonymous said...

Geekrad, I agree, most of it is pretty easy to spot. I am pretty convinced there is one "regular" on here who posts under at least 3 different "regular" names ( as in you see these names everyday) but Im not going to mention any of them. Anyway, that took me a while to pick up on, but most as you say is pretty obvious stuff.

Jen Ow said...

Ah, yes Hobs

So sad.

The "don't look at me like I'm a bad father" guy. (*who just let his two toddler sons burn alive and has only superficial burns on his hands and neck).

I said it then, and I say it again now...if my baby was burning to death in a house, there's only one place you should look for me..either right beside him, or where ever I dropped trying to get to him.

Garrison was standing outside waiting for the cops. He's a pathetic excuse for a father/human.

JoAnn said...

Anon @ 2:59,
Your right, I was thinking of a preliminary hearing, not a bond hearing. I do think that evidence was likely presented to a grand jury to secure an indictment, though, and as such it couldn't be flimsy. We'll hear the details at trial :)

JoAnn said...

^^^^You're
(Can't think OR type today, must be spring fever)

ima.grandma said...

Somanyways, I was telling my daughter what to type, kind of like dictating a letter, but it is worth the discomfort to type this one myself.

How about we make peace? Please. None of us know how many days we have left on this earth, I've had many close calls but God is keeping me around for some reason. I just want to begin to develop a real blog relationship that I know is real. I want to know when I am responding to you that it is you, the separate anon's comments make me feel you don't trust me or yourself. May we please start all over - a fresh start.. You are really smart, I can tell. You have some interesting views, some of which are bright thoughts that really make me wonder. I want to respond to you but I'm afraid you will confuse me with additional comments that may be you and it makes me feel like you are making a joke out of our dialogue. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings and I know I have. Can we try to make this right and will you post only as somanyways? I feel your pain and I don't want to add to it. Peace, please.:)

Thank you Joann, John, Sus, Geek, JenOw, Nic and I'm sure I'm leaving someone out but I appreciate your sincerity.

And Somanyways, I will try the herbal tea. That's a great idea. Thank you for thinking of me. :):):):):)

Jen Ow said...

Somanyways,

I hope that you find resolution to your troubles. Everyone has bad days!

elf said...

Feel better soon :)

Anonymous said...

I'll tell what this regular is doing too lol. In my opinion, They post under multiple names everyday, so you see multiple posts from the multiple names everyday. When this person wants to bully someone, these other names (accounts) that everyone has grown accustomed to thinking are other regulars here all join in to "back up" the 1st "account" that starts the bullying or whatevet you want to call it (turning on someone). I believe this person also has another name they go under, regularly, to get sympathy and to also be one of their group members. This is how the good-hearted regulars get drawn in ( mob mentality or merely sympathy for all of the offended people, 4 of which I would say are one person.

Anonymous said...

That was an old picture, he got that tattoo a couple of years ago.

Anonymous said...

imagrandma is a fake personality of this regular.

sambo said...

I wonder if Tammy’s narcissistic false identity is one of being a “gun-toting, don’t-f-with-me badgirl” and that is behind the usually brazen contempt in her statement. Her statement seems in part an attempt to blame others, but at the same time she can’t help asserting that “nobody f***s with Tammy” attitude. She can’t quite cast herself in a good light because that is at odds with her rebellious “badgirl” persona. That is why she appears not to care if she gets caught, because part of her wants the world to know what she is capable of.

Anonymous said...

Well they are both charged with murder, so there is a 50 percent chance it was sidney who actually murdered her.

Veruca said...

Okay this may seem a bit off ...it seems like Tammy and so deny had a long time between heathers reported disappearance and their arrest. Do you think that the moorers purposely let their home be a disgusting haven for rotten meat and animal feces to cover up any detection from cadaver dogs?
I personally believe heather was kidnapped and killed at their home. Just wondering if that's why the house wasn't reported unsanitary in the beginning and then at the arrest it was a pig sty.

Hope this gets posted. Seems like a lot of good post get the 86.
Veruca

Veruca said...

That should reAd Tammy and Sidney.

ima.grandma said...

Anon@4:32
Are you saying I'm not a real person? My husband is going to be so disapppinted when he finds out!

Somanyways, I meant every word I said to you but actions speak louder than words so I will show you. I want this to stop so no one gets hurt and we can maintain a healthy blog. I hope your day gets a little brighter.

I can't play anymore today. I'm worn out. Everyone have a good evening. Tomorrow...

Anonymous said...

imagrandma wrote to somanyways " I just want to begin to develop a real blog relationship that I know is real. I want to know when I am responding to you that it is you, the separate anon's comments make me feel you don't trust me or yourself"

" I just want to begin to develop a real blog relationship that I know is real" (PROJECTION)
"begin to develop a real blog relationship"
"begin" because YOU are the one not being real with anyone

"that I know is real"
a lot of sensitivity with the repeated word REAL


"I want to know when I am responding to the you that is you" (PROJECTION)

"makes me feel you don't trust me"
(SHE SHOULDNT)

"or yourself"
(PROJECTION)

Anonymous said...

Are you saying I'm not a real person?

Embedded admission
"I'm not a real person."

Sus said...

You are manipulative. I give you that, Maggie. You are projecting exactly what you do so that no one will stand up to you.

I prefer not to answer any of your comments, but you have so many alts that I answer before I catch on it's you.

This is the last time I will speak to you directly. I will be on my guard for your alts. It's a shame that you have been allowed to ruin a good blog like this simply for your need to argue and overpower.

Anonymous said...

Name calling surely ruins a blog. Just saying....

Anonymous said...

I prefer not to answer any of your comments, but you have so many alts that I answer before I catch on it's you.

I don't believe anyone addressed any comments to you.

Beans said...

sambo said...

"I wonder if Tammy’s narcissistic false identity is one of being a “gun-toting, don’t-f-with-me badgirl” and that is behind the usually brazen contempt in her statement. Her statement seems in part an attempt to blame others, but at the same time she can’t help asserting that “nobody f***s with Tammy” attitude. She can’t quite cast herself in a good light because that is at odds with her rebellious “badgirl” persona. That is why she appears not to care if she gets caught, because part of her wants the world to know what she is capable of."


Totally agree, she seems to live in a bubble where she runs the show, her entire life is like some role playing game where she calls all the shots. The children are homeschooled, Sidney is handcuffed to the bed like a prisoner, they live on her father's compound....there seems to be little to no outside influences. It's like her Id (Freudian) runs wild, unchecked by reality of the world outside, and unchallenged by her family. Tammy does what she wants, because no one messes with Tammy and gets away with it. Heather challenged Tammy's authority, she challenged Tammy's delusions of grandeur and self image, and most important she dismissed Tammy as she didn't matter, and in Tammy's bubble world where she is #1 that was something Tammy was not going to tolerate.

Glad you're on the mend, Ima.Grandma! Good to hear from you.

Anonymous said...

Please help Myra's mom
Alt key [awlt] Show IPA
noun Computers.
either of two keys on a PC keyboard that is held down while pressing another key, as to perform a specific operation or type a special character.

HMMMMMM

Beans said...

Ignore Miss Crabtree and let her talk/argue with her self the rest of the day. We're only feeding her desperate need for attention. Plus it will upset the bird in her hair.

JoAnn said...

OT:
abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9471586
Hope Mills, NC. Hope Mills police are asking for the public's help in the search for a missing teenage girl.
Danielle Locklear, 15, was last seen by a family member on March 11.
Investigators say she left home last Tuesday night saying she was going up the street to a friend's home, but she never made it there.

Another news article says that Danielle lives in Hope Mills, but has also lived in Myrtle Beach. Some of her clothing was found at a popular creek-bank hangout. The FBI is now involved in the case. She has been missing now for nine days.




Nic said...

Horry judge issues gag order in Heather Elvis case, human remains found in Florida

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_69451368-b12b-11e3-9352-0017a43b2370.html

ima.grandma said...

Oh Beans, where did you come from? I'm sure glad you ended up here. We sure need some humor and from reading the comments from yesterday, you fit the bill! Welcome!

Nic said...

A map prosecutors displayed in court at a bond hearing on Monday, March 17, shows all the locations the Moorers had traveled within the past year.


http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_69451368-b12b-11e3-9352-0017a43b2370.html?mode=image&photo=

JoAnn said...

Nic,
Thanks for the update.
I can see why myhorrynews picked up the story about human remains. Looking at a map of Deland, FL, it's along the route you could take from Orlando to Myrtle Beach, taking you right back to I-95.
Media speculation is that the remains might belong to a young girl who disappeared along with another child & her mother.

Nic said...

I would love to see the transcript of what Tammy said in this interview. Is the reporter making the comparison or did Tammy?

"Tammy Caison Moorer insists that the only thing she and her husband are guilty of is "loving Disney" -- which they certainly do, having taken frequent trips to Disneyland. But going to Disneyland and appreciating the many beloved characters have absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of Heather Elvis."

DeLand is only 55 minutes from Disney World Florida

http://www.chelseahoffman.com/2014/01/exclusive-interview-chelsea-talks-to.html

Anonymous said...

Disney World is where they visited most, so I doubt those were Tammy's exact words.

Nic said...

Hi JoAnn,

Yes, I saw what the man who found the remains said. It could be a coincidence that they mentioned the remains.

Also note that Heather was 5' even and she had lost *a lot* of weight. According to her Tumblr account she was 100 lbs.

5 feet and 100 lbs folded up - after 3 months wouldn't be very big.

JoAnn said...

Nic,
Sadly, yes, she was a "little girl," wasn't she?

Veruca said...

So with this new info. Im betting they killed heather in their home and then took her body with them down to Florida. And covered up any evidence by making their home a shithole filled with rotten meat and feces.

Looks like death penalty type stuff.

somanyways said...

Blogger ima.grandma said...
Somanyways, I was telling my daughter what to type, kind of like dictating a letter, but it is worth the discomfort to type this one myself.

How about we make peace? Please. None of us know how many days we have left on this earth, I've had many close calls but God is keeping me around for some reason. I just want to begin to develop a real blog relationship that I know is real. I want to know when I am responding to you that it is you, the separate anon's comments make me feel you don't trust me or yourself. May we please start all over - a fresh start.. You are really smart, I can tell. You have some interesting views, some of which are bright thoughts that really make me wonder. I want to respond to you but I'm afraid you will confuse me with additional comments that may be you and it makes me feel like you are making a joke out of our dialogue. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings and I know I have. Can we try to make this right and will you post only as somanyways? I feel your pain and I don't want to add to it. Peace, please.:)

Thank you Joann, John, Sus, Geek, JenOw, Nic and I'm sure I'm leaving someone out but I appreciate your sincerity.

And Somanyways, I will try the herbal tea. That's a great idea. Thank you for thinking of me. :):):):):)

March 21, 2014 at 4:05 PM


I just got back. I haven't posted since ~12:oo my time. (west coast) I only read through some of these so can't tell how long the peace offering lasted -- but I'll take it all the same.

yes let's make peace :)

I'm as mad at myself for getting all wound up in this and not working as much as I should (write at home) I just really love tosolve crimes., and i like talking too - for the most part its all interesting.

the tea really does work :) I think it saved my friens life who was having surgery for stage 4 cancer. he had like 1% chance of surviving and he did -- nearly a year cancer free now. it's alkalizing - you can read the science -- but really everybody should drink it every day :)

I gots to go deal with some real stuff now -- I think you were fighting w/ maggie here I wish you wouldn't she's dealing with the bullying just like me.

anyway -- should read up to see if I was walking into trouble with this or if peace offering is still real.

but peace it is from me.

xoxx

Pi said...

Somanyways, dont be irrational;) just saying keep it real

Peter Hyatt said...

New info on the Moorers coming..

Peter

ima.grandma said...

It's a deal. Pinky swear somanyways.

Nic said...

From Heather's Tumblr acc't
http://hazy-dayys.tumblr.com/

HW (high weight) 142
CW (current weight) 103 lbs - 5ft even

GW1 (Goal Weight 1) - 100 lbs
GW2 (Goal Weight 2) - 95 lbs
UGW (ultimate GW) 90 lbs.

_______

My 12 y/o daughter is nearly 80 lbs and 4'11. She is a size 12. She is a "little" girl.

Nic said...

Peter, God speed to Heather and the Elvis family.

Justice for Heather!

ima.grandma said...

http://disboards.com/showthread.phpt=1953876&page=18

Tammy posted the below on the disboards.
I would love to see this get together at Starbucks. Nancy Grace would tear her up! Tammy is going to eat her words.


"Nanvy Grace is on CNN Headline News. She has a show and she pretty much sticks to helping missing kids and crime victims. I LOVE that woman. She is so much like me its unreal. I wish she were our President!

I love Ms Nancy! She and I see eye to eye. I would love to have coffee with her one day and discuss how the death penalty really should operate. Punishment in this country never fits the crime and it's long overdue that it does once again."


I also read she withdrew $5000 the night of the murder but I can't find the page. I also read something about Carolina Forest was a place Tammy mentioned going to during their trip before Heather went missing.

Sella35 said...

@Nic You need to put NSFW on that tumbler link you just posted. Are you sure that is Heathers Tumblr?

Imagrandmoan said...

I'm 98 years old.

Maggie said...

You stinky .

Beans said...

Stella35,

Yes, it's her Tumblr. LE used it in making a timeline for the night of her disappearance.

Ash said...

Come follow the Moorer's Murder Trial with us! We are a group dedicated to seeking Justice for Heather Elvis!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1398731413728336/

Maggie said...

:(

kristi hurley said...

were there any statements from the texas cadet murder? it would make an interesting comparison, if there were

Onoma said...

Anony, PH knows. Hehe

Hobnob said...

HORRY COUNTY, SC (WMBF) - The Grand Jury in Horry County has formally indicted Tammy and Sidney Moorer on murder, kidnapping, and other charges in the case of missing 20-year-old Heather Elvis.

The Grand Jury met Thursday at the Horry County Courthouse and handed up the indictments. The indictments filed Thursday list The State of South Carolina, County of Horry as the plaintiff, and Sidney Stclair Moorer and Tammy Caison Moorer as the defendants.

The charges are listed as: obstruction of justice, two counts of indecent exposure, murder, and kidnapping. Troy Large with the Horry County Police Department is listed as a witness on the indictments for obstruction of justice and indecent exposure, and Jeffery Cauble of the HCPD is listed as a witness on the murder and kidnapping indictments.

Gregory McCollum is listed as Tammy Moorer's attorney, and Kirk Truslow is listed as Sidney Moorer's.

Tammy and Sidney Moorer appeared at Horry County Court Monday afternoon for the bond hearing on the charges of kidnapping and murder in connection with the disappearance of Heather Elvis. The couple was denied bond after an extensive presentation of evidence from prosecutors and the Moorers' defense attorneys.

Tammy and Sidney Moorer have been in Horry County Jail since February 21, when the couple was arrested and a search warrant was served at their home.

Copyright 2014 WMBF News. All rights reserved.

http://www.wect.com/story/25038907/grand-jury-formally-indicts-moorers-in-heather-elvis-case1

Eleni said...

Anony, just checking your IQ- it is impressive! I get your humor. Thanks for not giving me away. I am just one " regular"- acquired my pseudo names today. I will revert back to my true baptismal name: Eleni :)
Got to run, hope to read all posts tomorrow.

Beans said...

Interesting study.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

JoAnn said...

Hi Beans!
I went to the link you posted, and I really had to pause when I read "the science of Internet Trollology." I had a good laugh, then settled down to seriously read.

Beware The Dark Tetrad!

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. I dont have time to peruse the whole article, it sounds fascinating, but what was it Machiavelli, going on memory, said? Something like those we treat harshly but show intermittent kindnesses to will respond with greater indebtedness to us?

Anonymous said...

I gotta give you credit though, it is amusing.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Veruca said...
Okay this may seem a bit off ...it seems like Tammy and so deny had a long time between heathers reported disappearance and their arrest. Do you think that the moorers purposely let their home be a disgusting haven for rotten meat and animal feces to cover up any detection from cadaver dogs?
I personally believe heather was kidnapped and killed at their home. Just wondering if that's why the house wasn't reported unsanitary in the beginning and then at the arrest it was a pig sty.

Hope this gets posted. Seems like a lot of good post get the 86.
Veruca

March 21, 2014 at 4:40 PM

pretty sure dogs can pick up dead body smell at a garbage dump so doubt that would work to that effect

Kellie said...

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/24996166/defense-attorneys-insist-moorers-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty

"I haven't seen anything so far, that really significantly incriminates her," McCollum said. "What Michael Maely asked was if Tammy ever told McCollum that she was innocent.

"I'm not in a position, representing her or anyone else, to start talking about things that she and I have spoken about, there can be some legal implications with that in terms of attorney client privilege, and it's just not something I'd feel comfortable commenting on a direct conversation I've had with her," McCollum responded.

________________________

LOL If Tammy Moorer had told her attorney, I didn't do it, he would be shouting that from the rooftops!! So she hasn't even given her attorney a reliable denial. Man, I hope they televise this trial!

Carnival Barker said...


Geez, I was away for a few days and I come back to find all this civil unrest. I've been trying to get up to speed, but a lot of comments have been deleted. Am I allowed to ask what happened without inciting a riot?

Anonymous said...

didn't moorers call cops to their place -- I dunno a whole lot of times -- like 60 or something. over harrassment stuff. that's mad gutsy to call cops to the home even once , but almost daily - if any trace of murder is in that home.

Anonymous said...

I was dating this guy once, a real hot head, he was hot though ya know, so I overlooked a lot of red flags, like stealing, cheating, gambling, never showing up on time. Now, one of the things he used to do was, well it was like, he was into his appearance, lots of going to the gym, flexing in the mirror, one time I even thought he borrowed my eyeliner...here's my question, does he sound more like a psychopath or machiavellian narcissistic?

Anonymous said...

nothing too significant far as the case goes.

Anonymous said...

Anon that's a good point. I believe they called them 39 times.

Anonymous said...

doubt those reamins are a match. dont the find remains in florida like every day? a little girl usually drecribes prepubescent. if the moorers or anybody dumped her there why go to the trouble of the long drive and then put her at side of road instead of bury. it they took her it would mean they hd her for three weeks before taking her. that's gross and gonna smell mad bad and there would be more clues.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Anon that's a good point. I believe they called them 39 times.

March 21, 2014 at 8:40 PM

thanks

Kellie said...

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/25040113/horry-co-police-contact?utm_content=buffer24a25&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Horry Co. police contact Fla. authorities about remains found there

Anonymous said...

Very good point!

MemphisPat said...

In much the same way that I wouldn't answer my phone and have a conversation with an anonymous caller, I choose not to converse with people on blogs who are anonymous. I have enjoyed this blog and the comments for years and this is the first time I remember all the haranguing conversation about nothing. I imagine it discourages many people who enjoy statement analysis and even interesting speculation. From my years on the CayleeDaily blog, I learned that ignoring troublemakers caused them to get bored and leave. I hope that happens here. My best to those of you who are sick and had surgery. Maybe the news coming soon from Peter will give you a better night.

Falconwings said...

MemphisPat,

Amen!

Anonymous said...

The reason the moorers called police 39 times and collected all articles and social media is simple. They planned on suing the le, elvis family and any publisher who wrote about them. These people are so dispicable to think they could remove heather from this life and then sue her grieving parents. It's disgusting. ..... Brenda in Tucson

Anonymous said...

Cranky Yankee

Gag order granted, and no prelim. hearing next week, at which more evidence could be presented publicly.





http://www.thestate.com/2014/03/21/3340744/moorers-indicted-in-elvis-murder.html

Falconwings said...

Anon, I think the original comment was just pointing out that it was odd that they wanted LE at their house that often if it contained any kind of evidence.

Criminal Mind said...

On Cops TV show, after catching a bad guy, one asks him why he did it, he answers, "Because I'm stupid".

"daddy is threatening to kill my children and Sidney"
Sidney was "caught", therefore he is STUPID.

Lemon said...

Hobs, I saw that article as well.
ima.grandma, best wishes for a speedy recovery.

And a gentle reminder, the drama starves without attention to feed it.

JoAnn said...

Lemon,
Reminder noted :)

Red Ryder said...

Sus said about narcissists "They spend their entire lives controlling their environment (and people) to keep their false persona in place. Any threat to their "self" is met with unbelievable rage and need for revenge."

Yes. For me it has not always been so hard to describe what is going on in a nacissists mind as it is to believe, accept that a person would fly into a rage over their dinner not being the right temperature or an elaborate plot of revenge enacted because of an off the cuff comment that no one else remembers or the willingness to cut off family members rather than admit an innocent mistake on the part of the narcissist. Kill someone because they had an affair with YOUR husband?-it makes sense to her.

Ima G. glad to see you safely home:)

Peter said "New info on the Moorers coming.."
Ummm...is that an elipsis? LOL

Hobnob said...

Feel better soon Imagrandma, hugs you tight xx

Red Ryder said...

Peter said, "I struggle to show how rare this is."
I, like Nic or JoAnn said earlier, can foresee that I will struggle hearing the evidence brought forward in this case.
I pray for strength for the Elvises.
I pray Heather is found.

Red Ryder said...

Peter said, "Only the insane make such claims and do not care to hide their guilt."

Are you saying TM is clinically insane and therefore not responsible?
If she participated in Heather's murder and covered it up that shows she knew it was wrong and makes her culpable, right?

Nic said...

Red Ryder @ 10:52

I think how we perceive "insane" in the mainstream media versus the (high functioning) insane Tammy is are two different things.

Maybe I'm off in my analogy. But there are alcoholics and then there are high functioning alcoholics who are able to maintain their outside lives, i.e., jobs, academics, etc.

Sus said...

I don't know how Peter meant it, but a personality disorder does not fit the criteria for insane by psychiatry or the courts.

Anonymous said...

There is no prelim because an indictment has been issued. An indictment makes a Prelim moot. They have passed through the prelim stage on are on the way toward trial, however trial can still be a long way off. Just FYI:)

Anonymous said...

I've been a faithful reader since near the start of this blog. I used to post under mi+2niñas ... I rarely comment now because of the fools that can't discuss these cases without insulting others or just being assholes about the case and the victim. Polite banter, sharing ideas or theories even disagreements are interrupted by some jerk that's only purpose is to offend and incite. To ignore the stupidity I read Peter's comments, his wife, even though it's been a while since she has and a few readers that I have come to enjoy cause of insight or good theories/questions. I wish the Aholes would find somewhere else to loiter.

Lvmomma73

polywog said...

Feel better, you have a lovely daughter!

ima.grandma said...

Lemon,
I concur and will comply.
Thank you and Hobs for the kind thoughts.

Anonymous said...

I think she's actually trying to justify her actions (murder?). She's smart, she's not psycho, she's not a cheater, etc., but Heather and Sydney are those things. She's trying to justify to herself why it was/is ok what she did, and also I think she's sort of aliby building with reverse psychology, because as explained by Peter, it is not expected for a guilty person to speak out in such a manner against the victim.

Peter Hyatt said...

Red Ryder said...
Peter said, "Only the insane make such claims and do not care to hide their guilt."

Are you saying TM is clinically insane and therefore not responsible?
If she participated in Heather's murder and covered it up that shows she knew it was wrong and makes her culpable, right?
March 21, 2014 at 10:52 PM



No.

It is a poor choice of wording on my part.

"Nuts" is more common and without the legal weight.

Those "criminally insane" often are the same ones clever enough to hide their guilt.

Peter

Veruca said...

I am not not a anon. I'm veruca. Been here for 5 plus years.

Red Ryder said...

Thanks Sus and Peter. I thought that's what was meant. While not a psychiatrist, TM appears sane though "nuts" in the colloquial sense.

mi+2niñas/Lvmomma73, I remember you from my lurker days! I hope you stay and post. There are trolls everywhere and the best thing as many have advised is to ignore them, skip and scroll. There was an earlier post that linked to an interesting article about the narcissistic/Machiavellin personalities of trolls. I will find the link for you if you would like it.

Doty said...

Kristie Hurley
You are right, there are so many similarities with the Texas Cadet case. The murderess was Diane Zamora. And, yes, that would be great to see some actual direct statements of Zamora to analyse.

Veruca said...

I'm not saying the dogs couldn't. I'm saying that the moorers thought they could cover their murder.

Anonymous said...

Nik I read further up in this thread that text TM sent HE about daddy doesn't have his phone could have meant that TM using daddy could be referring to SM being a daddy to HE's baby meaning that she was pregnant possibly- makes total sense!!!!! Also when HE replied back to TM something like I'm nobody u have to worry about anymore - maybe HE got an abortion?

mainah said...

I noticed she said "went missing" in reference to Heather, but "gone missing" in reference to tweets. I wonder why.

Peter Hyatt said...

Thank you, mainah.

I missed it and have added it to the analysis.

Peter

Anonymous said...

I see this same disparagement of victims when I read pit bull fatality stories in the news. In the comments the pit bull advocates always blame he victims, mostly subtly but occasionally you will see an all out undisguised hateful attack. I think people are becoming bolder in their misanthropy. It seems to be the new black, if you know what I mean. Misanthropy is mainstreaming. Maybe because of social media? People are finding courage in knowing there are others like them? Whereas pre social media they thought they were the only ones? I don't know. Maybe people don't even have the decency to lie anymore when they do something wrong because they don't even know it is wrong. That's troubling. I mean lying at least means you know you did something wrong, right?