Friday, March 8, 2013

Mark Redwine and "Rumors" by Kaaryn Gough

by Statement Analyst, Kaaryn Gough

As I said to Elaine Redwine the other night on Crime Wire, this case is never far from my thinking. I read the transcripts from Mark’s interviews regularly and am quite familiar with them. While watching a television program tonight, one of the characters used the phrase, “rumor has it” and suddenly I recalled seeing the word “rumors” somewhere in one of Mark’s interviews and it struck me at the time as being an odd word for him to use. I immediately went searching through the transcripts and found it. I now know why it struck me as being odd.

Nov 29, 2012 interview with KOAT Channel 7
I've been working closely with the investigators to do what needed to be done because you know, he was last seen at my house. And though there's rumors going around that he's been spotted by people, you know, our concern is that something has happened to the point now where we just want to keep in the public's eye, you know Dylan's face, keep the focus on Dylan.
 “rumor”— Definitions: 
1) A currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth
2) Talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source
Mark’s use of “rumors” indicates he is doubtful the stories or reports that Dylan has been spotted are true.
The parent of a missing child who had nothing to do with the child’s disappearance would cling to the hope the stories or reports are true and would never consider them  to be “rumors”. Instead, they would considered "possible leads". 
Q: How would Mark know or be able to doubt whether Dylan was spotted by people or not?
A:  Mark’s brain knows it’s not possible that Dylan has been spotted by others.
As for the stories or reports having no discernable sources,(definition #2)  it doesn’t make sense for him to label them as "rumors". If people believe they spotted Dylan, naturally they would report this to the police and make a statement. Therefore, they would be discernable sources. Additionally, when a person makes a reports to police, it is never considered to be a “rumor”, even if it is later proven to be mistaken identity or even a complete lie.
"rumors" is Mark's word and by labeling them as such, he is able to conscript witnesses without having to identify who they are or what they said. These “rumors” help to perpetuate the possibility that Dylan is still alive and was seen after the time Mark reported him missing.


john said...

I'm astounded each and every day i visit your blog Peter how ONE word can change a statement and turn it on its head.S/A should be compulsory in in all LE training,be it just learning pronouns,article's and their usage or lack of.These tools and other's are vital in investigation's like this one.

A fabulous pick on the word "RUMOR'S"

Peter Hyatt said...


I included the introduction to Kaaryn's email without asking her if she wanted it in an article or not: it is that telling.

It is a great example of marinading...or what Avinoam Sapir calls the 40% effect, where, going over prior analysis can yield up to 40% more information. She has highlighted his genius and represented his teaching well.

She has taken her gift; that is, the ability to see in pictures, and placed it in the capable principles, and this is the result.

This is a very simple observation and it is brilliant.

Wednesday, I was reading the same transcripts and the word "rumor" caught me as funny, but I moved on. I think this is what Mr. Sapir aims at...I moved on when I should have paused when my instinct said, "hmm? rumor?" and stopped, got out a dictionary (online!) and worked on it.

Kaaryn may not realize how deep the simplicity runs. I hope to have an article on this theme soon.


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JerseyJane said...

It sounds like MR got his "police badge" during his time talking to the investigators with all the "we" and "our". I can almost see him with his white cowboy hat on after reading his statement..
MR has the proof riiiiggght under his hat, that they are rumors!!! Yeee-haaaaa!!

Kaaryn Gough said...

Yes, Peter, I intended that you include everything I wrote. Going back over a statement and the analysis is essential! "rumors" had struck me each time I read that part of the interview. But I did not stop to analyze it. There was so much else to analyze in his language.

And yes, I do realize how deep the simplicity runs. This is why I immediately stopped watching the show and booted up my computer and began working. It was an "ah-ha!" moment.

It is very important to pay attention to a subject's personal dictionary.

john said...


I must start to employ this method more frequently.

It remind's of what i call Light Bulb moment's,where you see or read something and all of a sudden something Go's ping and jump's out at me.

JerseyJane said...

Hmmmmm, John, the famous hot word, 'focus' you pointed out is part of that paragraph, too.

Peter Hyatt said...


if you go through some of the comments on the blog, you can see that readers share the "aha moment" on many points from many cases.

Can you share with us all advice on how to put the brakes on and focus in on a word?

I am referring specifically to "rumors", which I paused, but continued on (like an illicit stop sign maneuver when no one is looking!) but should have stopped.

Is there a discipline you follow? Or is it just that it caught your attention?
Was it something that caught your attention and later returned to it?

Thank you!


Nic said...

Peter, re the 40% effect.

Your comment reminds me of something my old sales prof would say, "God gave us two ears and one mouth so that we could listen twice as much as we talk." And that it takes twice as much effort to listen which is why people can be "poor" listeners/pseudo listeners, i.e., "uh-huh" "yes, dear" . Thus making it easy to deceive. :0)

Looking back I can think of numerous times I've walked away from a conversation and there being a word or phrase that kept rolling around in my head but I couldn't pin why it "bothered" me. Eventually time would reveal why.

I've discovered that statement analysis can be like that, too. Sometimes I read something and I wonder why it bugs me. Most of the time I never figure it out. But then sometimes you highlight something when following up with a post and it's like, *that's why*!

As you point out, in hindsight it appears "simple" but it's not! LOL... IMO, besides time and experience making the difference to get to the "why", you've reiterated to me that team work can be essential for learning/solving a mystery. Which points to why your blog is so great. It's the opportunity to interact and shareof ideas and theories.

Thank you for the time and effort you take every day to keep your blog active! It's a generous gift.

Kaaryn Gough said...

SCAN teaches us to analyze a statement starting with the first words in the first sentence and moving through the statement word by word, sentence by sentence. This is very important in the analysis process. Several things happen:

1) it forces us to slow down and consider each and every word. This is hard to do! We are trained to "skim" and see words as collective phrases when we read.

2) it allows us to analyze the statement similar to how the subject experienced writing it. When the subject begins writing sentence #1, he/she does not know what sentence #2, #3 etc will be. The first sentence must be complete before the next one can begin. In some ways, it's like following bread crumbs. You don't know where it's going to lead. Your only hope is to simply 'follow the trail' that is before you.

In SCAN, we extract every bit of analysis we can from one sentence before we move on to the next one. However, we know that there is likely more information inside the statement and we do not come to a conclusion with just one pass. We must do several passes before we can write our conclusions.

In this case, I did not have transcripts to read. I had only the YouTube videos. Therefore, I had to create the transcripts. There is a benefit to this.

By doing my own transcripts it forces me to slow down and consider each and every word. It also ensures that the transcripts are accurate. I am always wary of someone else's transcripts for even the slightest mistake or omission/inclusion of a word can alter the analysis.

I highly recommend comparing a transcript given to you to its source. Make sure the words are exactly as spoken.

As I write transcripts, I become very familiar with the language. I don't analyze as I transcribe for this would bog down the process of recording the words in a document. But I do take mental notes.

When I'm done with the transcript, I then begin at the beginning and read it. As I move through the statement, I highlight/bold/underline places that jump out at me. The big stuff like pronouns, tenses, personal dictionary. After doing this, I then begin focusing on the areas I have highlighted/bolded/underlined and analyze them further.

I'm careful at getting too focused on one area. When I am tired, I step back and take a break. I go back and re-read the interview as a whole to refresh my brain.

In this case, "rumors" caught my attention early on, but there was so much else to look at. I revisited it a couple of other times but only because it was part of the section I was analyzing.

The word had been "simmering" in the back of my mind all along but it wasn't until I heard it being used in a television show that I fully understood its implications. That's when I had the "a-ha!" moment. Suddenly, the pot was boiling over.

Your analogy, Peter, of an illicit stop or what is also called a "rolling stop", is perfect. Yeah, I saw the sign and slowed down, but I didn't come to a full and complete stop. This is a perfect example of why it's better to have many brains working together on a statement in order to extract as much information as possible.

Jo said...

OT - Homicide Investigation on news website this morning.

The owner of the Mt. Morris Motel says Robert Kasun moved into room four of the ten room motel on Sunday. Ken Lange says when he was plowing snow from the motel's driveway Tuesday night he noticed something strange.

"The door to the room was wide open and I thought that was unusual," said Lange.

So Lange says he went inside.

"And I just happened to be walking by so I went in there and he just looked like he was passed out."

Lange says he didn't know Kasun and didn't want to disturb him. (tells us the negative)

"I closed the door and closed the refrigerator door (events out of order) because that was left wide open and then I left and I didn't think nothing of it."

The Waushara County Sheriff's Department was called to the room at 10:30 Wednesday morning. Lange says a man who helped Kasun move in on Sunday found him and called 911.

"That's when they said he was dead and it was a surprise to me."

I think I would have some more questions for the Motel owner.

john said...


Thank you for the breakdown of how you read and analyze statement's.

Kaaryn Gough said...


You are very welcome.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the use of the word "rumor" - when I first read the statement I thought the same thing (from an undetermined source, likely not true, etc). But my initial thought was different than the analysis offered... I think MR created the rumor himself by using the word "rumor" in his statement - to make it appear that Dylan may still be alive & to lead the investigation away from MR. MR knew it was not true, MR was the undetermined source of the rumor.

john said...

Iv' just being going through M/R's statement again looking for extra word's,statement's as Peter and Kaaryn have advised.

While doing this i noticed a micro expression of FEAR flashing on and off of M/R's face.

To me this is very significant given what he say's,and when it appear's.

@ 3.48 M/R say's

"What's going on with the authorities and people handling this is to search my home,all they had to do is ask,i would have (willingly let them come in and do it")Freeze the vt when he says willingly,it's around 3;55.This is were the micro expression of fear flashes on and off his face.

It is my belief that there are and or clues to Dylans disappearance given were this Micro expression of FEAR appear's on M/Rs face...

Peter Hyatt said...

Kaaryn, I should put your response in a separate article!

I took speed reading, long ago, which boils down to this:

use your finger to read, like what may have been done in grade school.

Slowly increase the speed of the finger and do not pronounce the words, even to yourself.

test your recall.

Continue practice with very slight increases in speed of finger going by.

It is very helpful in gaining the basics of an article, but is the opposite of SCAN!


Anonymous said...

Focus, hmm..did he take pictures of that night with Dylan?

Kaaryn Gough said...

I would also like to note that in our "microwave" age speed is the kingpin of our lives. Our goal is to do everything faster--cook a dinner in 5 minutes rather than 5 hours, download a movie in 10 seconds rather than 60, communicate on the run via texting shorthand--we live our lives in fast-forward mode and our need/desire to take in information, understand it and work with it is also done at high speed.

Statement Analysis can only be properly done when we set aside our "need for speed" and quiet our inner tyrants that insist we drive 200 mph and ignore the sights in our attempt to keep up with our fast-paced world.

I do my best analysis very early in the morning before the day's events invade and shift me into high gear. I prefer a darkened room for there's always something in the bright light of day that will distract my attention and lessen my focus. (i.e.--the dust shows up on surfaces). My computer screen is my visual beacon and everything else fades into the shadows. I enjoy the luxury of being able to work slowly.

Now, before anyone goes analyzing my use of "light" in this post, please recognize that light has a legitimate purpose in my statement.

I once had someone say I had been a victim of sexual abuse as a child because I used the phrase, "a light bulb went off in my head."-- a phrase that is used by many both verbally and in images to describe sudden understanding or a brilliant idea. ("brilliant" being the key word). I cautioned him to carefully consider my reference to "light" before jumping to a conclusion. Sometimes a lightbulb is just a lightbulb. :-)

Anonymous said...

Hello Kaaryn & Peter: When Elaine asked Mark, on Dr. Phil, where is Dylan - Mark answered with something like "Well, that's a question we all have to ask ourselves."

This statement, as well as "the problem is my ex-wife," and Mark's assertions about Elaine alienating Dylan and Cory away from Mark, indicate to me Mark is telling Elaine it's her fault he had to murder Dylan.

Hobnob said...

I am a speed reader, i find that as i read a statement i spot the keywords, they jump out at me, it's like a smooth path or constant sound that the word suddenly jumps out jarringly. it is a break in the rhythm,(it's also the same when people speak certain words will stand out from the drone as being discordant)
I go back and read the sentences the words that immediately caught my eye/ear to get the context, why did they catch my attention? i then reread multiple times looking note only at the words used, also the words not used, the ones behind words if this makes sense, the underlying words and phrases.
when someone is deceptive they try to avoid words that cause them sensitivity, words that to them reveal guilt, they go out of their way to avoid saying them and it is those words even when the words are expected i seek. Slow reading is hard for me.
I found this out when i was doing drama at school i was at the bottom of the page when my mouth was still at the top, the result being my teachers spent many a happy hour writing in big black pen slow down, brakes onall over the pages, or, in one case, writing the script 1 line per sheet etc.
I remember being the narrator for a presentation on Bonnie Prince Charlie (I had a loud carrying voice, i ennuciated and i could pronounce the really big words)Unfortunately first night nerves got to me and i shot through the script whilst the poor cast had to do everything at a run. It was Benny Hill funny. I had him dead and buried whilst the cast were still rowing their boat o'er the sea to Skye! Happily though the following shows were all a sell out (word of mouth at the hilarity) and i did manage to slow down enough for the cast to look mostly dignified. I also admit to accidentally replacing 1 line in a play with the line from a subsequent scene resulting in 1 scene being completely skipped. Luckily no one noticed except our drama teacher who looked like she was going to faint. we didn't notice it either and only realised when we saw the play had finished earlier then expected.

Lis said...

When I read the word "rumors" in his statement, my first thought was that MR wanted to plant the idea that there are sightings of Dylan, but now that you point it out, Kaaryn, I see more to it. It is unexpected that someone who really had hope or belief in a sighting would use the word "rumor." Rumor does not carry a hopeful or creditable connotation! So, in one word, he both planted the idea and discredited it! Interesting.

Mainah said...

Thank you! Very helpful information, Karen and Peter.

I have practiced singling out pronouns by taking the statements and making a list beginning with each new pronoun, spaced between each new person or object the subject referenced. It helps me slow down, look at the words instead of phrases and highlights (first) the pronouns. I considered I was making unnecessary work for myself.

Most recent example (Mark Redwine) from a few days ago:

I normally wouldn't, but
I do,
I do blame
I relive

this a thousand times and every time

it comes back to

I-- s-seeing

him laying on the couch and

I didn’t try hard enough, maybe, to wake

him up to have
him come with

me knowing


he had talked about going to spend time with
his friends and letting
him sleep like
he does so many time before,

I beat
myself up over

that constantly. But
that’s not helping

me. And

it’s not helping


I mean,

it’s hard enough for

any parent to have to deal with

something like

this and to sit here and beat

yourself up over and over and over again about


you could have done differently, could have made the difference is a—not helping

me stay strong

which is


I feel like


I need to do for


I don’t know how to do

it and

I struggle with

that every day, but

it’s something


I believe
I have to dig down deeper and deeper every day and find the will and find the strength to stay strong for

him because

I believe


he needs

both of

his parents.
He needs

me to do

that for

him and

I know

he needs
his mom to do

that for


Peter Hyatt said...

Anonymous said...
Hello Kaaryn & Peter: When Elaine asked Mark, on Dr. Phil, where is Dylan - Mark answered with something like "Well, that's a question we all have to ask ourselves."

This statement, as well as "the problem is my ex-wife," and Mark's assertions about Elaine alienating Dylan and Cory away from Mark, indicate to me Mark is telling Elaine it's her fault he had to murder Dylan.
March 8, 2013 at 2:10 PM >>

I essentially believe the same thing; somehow, in his twisted mind, he blames Elaine for what he did.


Layla said...

I think, Karyn, that you nailed it: Mark is using the term "rumors" to mean something along tge lines of "unsubstantiated, doubtful reports" that Dylan has been spotted by people.
1). This is ironic considering Mark said he wasn't the last person to see Dylan because the mailwoman saw him walking with a friend.
2). The other part of his statement is disturbing!
"And though there's rumors going around that he's been spotted by people, YOU KNOW (effort to convince), OUR CONCERN IS THAT SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED TO THE POINT NOW, THAT WE JUST WANT TO KEEP HIM IN THE PUBLIC EYE.
I will isolate this part of the statement:
OK. So, Mark is telling us that "something has happened" (to Dylan) that would rule out the possibility of his being spotted, and that this something has reached a point WHERE HE NEEDS TO BE KEPT IN THE PUBLIC EYE (even though Mark's statement provides us with the information that it is unbelievable to think he has been spotted). Still, he should be kept in the public eye, because, according to Mark, something has happened to him and this something has "reached a point".
I am not sure what to make os this.

Kaaryn Gough said...

ER: "when do you sit back and say, 'I lost Dylan?'"

MR: "I didn't lose Dylan, Elaine"

ER: "How--then why is he gone?"

MR: "Well, that, you know, that's a question we all have to ask, but nobody's got the answer."

"a question" not "the question" or "one of the questions".

"a"= unknown
"the" = known

"..we all have to ask..." "have to"=don't want to.

"...we all have to ask..." not "...we all want to know the answer to."

Mark is focused on the "asking", not on the "knowing"

Ann said...

Layla, that's what I was thinking too. At first, he uses the word "rumor," but he had no problem on Dr. Phil jumping on the postal worker's statement about seeing Dylan. I recall ER saying on DP that LE had discredited the sighting. MR became belligerent with her about it. It's curious how he's now using the sighting to try and prove Dylan was alive the next day.

Trigger said...

Kaaryn and Peter,

Great breakdown of Mark's reference to the word "rumor."

Mark has again told us what he knows about Dylan's fate and you two noticed it. Brilliant!

Layla said...

Ann--Yes, as you pointed out, Mark was very adament about the validity of the sighting by the mailwoman. He was disgruntled saying "Why hasn't anyone (from the Dr Phil show) talked to her?!"

Layla said...

You guys should take a look at photos of weird text messages from Mark Redwine sent to I believe Elaine. They are on the CALLING MARK REDWINE facebook page.

Charles said...

I also find it odd that Mark continues to use the phrase "keep the focus on Dylan" as if he is trying to keep any or all focus off himself!

Listening said...

Great catch on the word "rumor".

If someone claims something to be "rumor", it's usually because it's not true, or they are lying and want people to think it's not true.

Why would a parent want (or think) a sighting of their missing child to be a rumor? I would think they would cling to any sightings, not discredit the sightings. Also, how would he even KNOW the sightings are rumors? :/ I just can't imagine a parent using the term rumor! I'd more so imagine a parent claiming/hoping the sightings to be fact.

~ABC said...

Brilliant catch!!!

This is an example of how I've been hearing things most of my life. One word or maybe an entire sentence just catches my attention. Sometimes to the point that I can't hear anything else the person is saying. Then at a later time it will come to me WHY that word or sentence rang my chime.

Now I'm really understanding why and I'm excited to know I can learn to use this at will and with purpose.

Elaine said...

I have always appreciated your insight. Thank you for all you have done for Dylan and for me in assisting with the analysis of Dylan's case. You're spot on.